Board - Invest or leave (Chicken Licken On Standby)

[TonyStokeprano]

I am looking for a list of players, that have left the club since January and what wage they were roughly on. I am looking at the Rooney situation and thinking, surely we could offer him say Nish and Rankins wage. Anyway here is what I have came up with, feel free to add or edit.

Bamba - 2.5k
Hogg - 1.5k
McBride - 1k
Rankin - 1.2k
Nish - 2k
Zemmama - 2k
Miller - 3k
Riordan - 3k
Thicot - £900
Trakys - £600

That adds up, to just under 18k a week. We also got a fee from the Bamba and Zemmama transfers. I know we signed some players in January, but there must be some free money to pay players decent wages. The only problem now, is it looks like Season Ticket sales will be down by about 30-40% so Rod may be hard to budge. I cant see it being a busy summer for us, and I have a feeling Petrie will be happy to just stay in the league this year, and will be happy as he has saved a few ££££££

darryl duffy,ritchie towell and graham smith aswell mate, must have been taking away about 3k between them week aswell.

there should be plenty room to get about 4 new players on 4k a week.

But I think the wage budget might have been cut a lot since last season, something none of us here will know.

[RIP]

I am looking for a list of players, that have left the club since January and what wage they were roughly on. I am looking at the Rooney situation and thinking, surely we could offer him say Nish and Rankins wage. Anyway here is what I have came up with, feel free to add or edit.

Bamba - 2.5k
Hogg - 1.5k
McBride - 1k
Rankin - 1.2k
Nish - 2k
Zemmama - 2k
Miller - 3k
Riordan - 3k
Thicot - £900
Trakys - £600

That adds up, to just under 18k a week. We also got a fee from the Bamba and Zemmama transfers. I know we signed some players in January, but there must be some free money to pay players decent wages. The only problem now, is it looks like Season Ticket sales will be down by about 30-40% so Rod may be hard to budge. I cant see it being a busy summer for us, and I have a feeling Petrie will be happy to just stay in the league this year, and will be happy as he has saved a few ££££££

We are losing a million pound every year so if we don't replace anybody we might just about break even :greengrin

[CB_NO3]

We are losing a million pound every year so if we don't replace anybody we might just about break even :greengrin

That is my worry.

[CB_NO3]

darryl duffy,ritchie towell and graham smith aswell mate, must have been taking away about 3k between them week aswell.

there should be plenty room to get about 4 new players on 4k a week.

But I think the wage budget might have been cut a lot since last season, something none of us here will know.

That takes it to about 21k a week, we are saving, minus the wage of Scott, Thornhill, Sodje and Palsson. I cant see them being on big wages.

[GreenPJ]

That takes it to about 21k a week, we are saving, minus the wage of Scott, Thornhill, Sodje and Palsson. I cant see them being on big wages.

You can't save it if you haven't got it. These wages were based on last seasons tickets sales presumably, that means that money has gone. This season its been a slow start for ticket sales. If we could have the same number of season tickets as last time then the argument stands up but if not we would need to spend money we don't have to do what you want to do.

Like all these decisions, is the speculate going to bring the accumulate you need.

[RickyS]

I am looking for a list of players, that have left the club since January and what wage they were roughly on. I am looking at the Rooney situation and thinking, surely we could offer him say Nish and Rankins wage. Anyway here is what I have came up with, feel free to add or edit.

Bamba - 2.5k
Hogg - 1.5k
McBride - 1k
Rankin - 1.2k
Nish - 2k
Zemmama - 2k
Miller - 3k
Riordan - 3k
Thicot - £900
Trakys - £600

That adds up, to just under 18k a week. We also got a fee from the Bamba and Zemmama transfers. I know we signed some players in January, but there must be some free money to pay players decent wages. The only problem now, is it looks like Season Ticket sales will be down by about 30-40% so Rod may be hard to budge. I cant see it being a busy summer for us, and I have a feeling Petrie will be happy to just stay in the league this year, and will be happy as he has saved a few ££££££

seems a lot that mate, wot you heard?

[CB_NO3]

Its just a guess mate. I cant see there being more than 7k season ticket holders this season. I hope to be proved wrong though.

[persevere1875]

You can't save it if you haven't got it. These wages were based on last seasons tickets sales presumably, that means that money has gone. This season its been a slow start for ticket sales. If we could have the same number of season tickets as last time then the argument stands up but if not we would need to spend money we don't have to do what you want to do.

Like all these decisions, is the speculate going to bring the accumulate you need.

Unfortunately with reports of season tickets reputedly being well down on last year, If the managment and board dont come in with some talent that excites, I cant forsee season ticket sales generating the financial clout we need to improve on last season, it really is chicken and egg scenario, despite our desire to run Hibernian F. C on a sound financial footing, if we fail to remember were selling an entertainment product and instead hope and pray that the Easter Rd faithful will despite everything, stump up, I fail to see things changing. Its like buying a shop and opening the doors with little or no stock, if you've nothing to see no ones coming back

[BoltonHibee]

Unfortunately with reports of season tickets reputedly being well down on last year, If the managment and board dont come in with some talent that excites, I cant forsee season ticket sales generating the financial clout we need to improve on last season, it really is chicken and egg scenario, despite our desire to run Hibernian F. C on a sound financial footing, if we fail to remember were selling an entertainment product and instead hope and pray that the Easter Rd faithful will despite everything, stump up, I fail to see things changing. Its like buying a shop and opening the doors with little or no stock, if you've nothing to see no ones coming back

Unfortunately our board have no idea on how to run a successful football club, so things on that front are unlikely to change.

Your shop analogy is spot on.....

[persevere1875]

Unfortunately our board have no idea on how to run a successful football club, so things on that front are unlikely to change.

Your shop analogy is spot on.....


Yip, the longer this summer goes on, the less positive I feel, not good

[HibsMax]

Unfortunately our board have no idea on how to run a successful football club, so things on that front are unlikely to change.

Your shop analogy is spot on.....

That seems a little harsh but I'm not going to get into another long debate about why. The state the club is in currently has been discussed to death on other threads, no need to do that again here.

[CB_NO3]

That seems a little harsh but I'm not going to get into another long debate about why. The state the club is in currently has been discussed to death on other threads, no need to do that again here.
We can talk about it till we are black and blue, but we will never move forward as a football club under the current regime. We are massive underachievers IMO.

[HibsMax]

We can talk about it till we are black and blue, but we will never move forward as a football club under the current regime. We are massive underachievers IMO.

Define "move forward as a football club". Without knowing what you mean by that it's impossible to respond properly. For the record, I think you're wrong......but I guess we need to wait until the end of this season, at least, to see what progress can / will be made.

[Kaiser1962]

Unfortunately our board have no idea on how to run a successful football club, so things on that front are unlikely to change.

Your shop analogy is spot on.....

So how do you run a successful football club then?

[Kaiser1962]

We can talk about it till we are black and blue, but we will never move forward as a football club under the current regime. We are massive underachievers IMO.

In what way?

[SmokieJoe]

Unfortunately with reports of season tickets reputedly being well down on last year, If the managment and board dont come in with some talent that excites, I cant forsee season ticket sales generating the financial clout we need to improve on last season, it really is chicken and egg scenario, despite our desire to run Hibernian F. C on a sound financial footing, if we fail to remember were selling an entertainment product and instead hope and pray that the Easter Rd faithful will despite everything, stump up, I fail to see things changing. Its like buying a shop and opening the doors with little or no stock, if you've nothing to see no ones coming back


Unfortunately our board have no idea on how to run a successful football club, so things on that front are unlikely to change.

Your shop analogy is spot on.....


Yip, the longer this summer goes on, the less positive I feel, not good


We can talk about it till we are black and blue, but we will never move forward as a football club under the current regime. We are massive underachievers IMO.

CC on his Holls, many rumours of many players coming, the club is a financial success and that includes many years of off the pitch investment.

Give it a week and see who signs.

better still, give it 'till the tattie hols and then get the daggers out for the board for not investing, or CC for not targetting the right player, or the board re wages....

[Kaiser1962]

Unfortunately our board have no idea on how to run a successful football club, so things on that front are unlikely to change.

Your shop analogy is spot on.....

How many shops have closed down or had to totally relaunch in another market entirely (i.e. grocer's closes and opens as a hairdresser) due to influence or effect of a much larger and wealthier competitor?

[Beefster]

In what way?

In the way that we struggle to consistency finish above and have longer cup runs than the likes of Motherwell, Dundee Utd, Killie, ICT, St Johnstone. Our turnover means that we should be competing with Hearts and Aberdeen every season for third and getting to the latter stages of the majority of cups.

Yes, Aberdeen are underachievers too and Hearts overspend massively but the point stands.

[down the slope]

In the way that we struggle to consistency finish above and have longer cup runs than the likes of Motherwell, Dundee Utd, Killie, ICT, St Johnstone. Our turnover means that we should be competing with Hearts and Aberdeen every season for third and getting to the latter stages of the majority of cups.

Yes, Aberdeen are underachievers too and Hearts overspend massively but the point stands.

Spot on , but our board think of success as zero debt so in their eyes we are doing fine , nothing will change until they go.

[Andy74]

Spot on , but our board think of success as zero debt so in their eyes we are doing fine , nothing will change until they go.

That's nonsense though, isn't it?

[MrSmith]

The season ticket sales are well down and the board only have themselves to blame for this. Their approach has been nothing short of bland and lackadaisical and they have now instilled this apparent apathy into the fans who are expressing their complete dissatisfaction.

I don't want the board spending huge sums on transfer fees, in-fact in this current climate I don't want them to spend any money on transfer fees! What I do want is a better wage structure that will attract reasonable quality players to the club not the dross we have been witnessing in the last few years nor settling for the managers third and fourth choice coming in. And, it may stop us losing our signing targets to other much lesser teams...

I'll buy the strips for my boys but right now, can't see myself returning to Easter Road due to the product on the park, the boards apparent lack of wanting to put a product on the park and, lastly and most disappointingly, the atmosphere at ER is appalling!

I really don't enjoy matches anymore and can't see it getting better anytime soon...

Disillusioned?? Maybe!

[Kaiser1962]

In the way that we struggle to consistency finish above and have longer cup runs than the likes of Motherwell, Dundee Utd, Killie, ICT, St Johnstone. Our turnover means that we should be competing with Hearts and Aberdeen every season for third and getting to the latter stages of the majority of cups.

Yes, Aberdeen are underachievers too and Hearts overspend massively but the point stands.

We do consistently finish above all those sides. Not always but generally we do.

We generally go further in the cups as well.

In turnover we are behind both Aberdeen and Hearts and if income was in any way relative to expenditure we would be competing with Hearts, but it's not and the SPL table over the last 10 seasons or so, as published on another thread by Hibsmax, almost directly corresponds to income and expenditure tables for the period.

I am not arguing that we are not poor because we most certainly are. Nor am I arguing that everything in the garden is rosy because clearly it's not.

[stokesmessiah]

The season ticket sales are well down and the board only have themselves to blame for this. Their approach has been nothing short of bland and lackadaisical and they have now instilled this apparent apathy into the fans who are expressing their complete dissatisfaction.

I don't want the board spending huge sums on transfer fees, in-fact in this current climate I don't want them to spend any money on transfer fees! What I do want is a better wage structure that will attract reasonable quality players to the club not the dross we have been witnessing in the last few years nor settling for the managers third and fourth choice coming in. And, it may stop us losing our signing targets to other much lesser teams...

I'll buy the strips for my boys but right now, can't see myself returning to Easter Road due to the product on the park, the boards apparent lack of wanting to put a product on the park and, lastly and most disappointingly, the atmosphere at ER is appalling!

I really don't enjoy matches anymore and can't see it getting better anytime soon...

Disillusioned?? Maybe!

I believe the technical term you are looking for is fair weather fan!!

Most ppl support their team through thick and thin, its because of all the crap you put up with that when something good does happen you savour it all the more. IMO

[MrSmith]

I believe the technical term you are looking for is fair weather fan!!

Most ppl support their team through thick and thin, its because of all the crap you put up with that when something good does happen you savour it all the more. IMO


Mate, you have no idea! Fair weather, phhttt!! No I'm sick of the pish on the park right now!

[Luna_Asylum]

We do consistently finish above all those sides. Not always but generally we do.

We generally go further in the cups as well.

In turnover we are behind both Aberdeen and Hearts and if income was in any way relative to expenditure we would be competing with Hearts, but it's not and the SPL table over the last 10 seasons or so, as published on another thread by Hibsmax, almost directly corresponds to income and expenditure tables for the period.

I am not arguing that we are not poor because we most certainly are. Nor am I arguing that everything in the garden is rosy because clearly it's not.

Hibernian Football Club turnover for the year ended 31 July 2010 £7.1m

Aberdeen Football Club turnover for the year ended 30 June 2010 £7.1m

[Kaiser1962]

Hibernian Football Club turnover for the year ended 31 July 2010 £7.1m

Aberdeen Football Club turnover for the year ended 30 June 2010 £7.1m

I dont have Aberdeens for 2010 available to me LA so thats fair enoungh. That would make the income over the last 10 years Aberdeen 77.6m compared to our £74.8m. Much of a muchness I know. Do you know what Aberdeen paid in wages to the year end 2010?

[ScottB]

This idea that the Board don't give a jot about the football is utter nonsense.

Even if we assume that they are apparently solely focused on the pursuit of zero debt (ignoring of course that we've been running at a loss for years now), if fans stop turning up then income drops, clearly that doesn't fit in with the 'keep everything financially rosy' vision some people seem to reckon they are obsessed with.

So the Board don't want the club spending money we don't have. Shock of all horrors! Just because some other clubs are happy to spend themselves into tens of millions of pounds worth of debt doesn't mean we should, or even can do the same.

In any case, if clubs with significantly lower wage budgets than us can build capable squads and finish high up the table, this idea that CC has two brass pennies with which to attract whatever dregs are out there is just as nonsensical. There is no reason that CC can't build a squad capable of achieving what we expect with the budget we have if used correctly. For me the Board's primary failing in recent years has been to appoint the wrong guy (probably better put as cow towing to who the fans want as much as anything else) to do that job. The amount of money Hughes wasted on a ridiculous number of players speaks for itself.

[Luna_Asylum]

I dont have Aberdeens for 2010 available to me LA so thats fair enoungh. That would make the income over the last 10 years Aberdeen 77.6m compared to our £74.8m. Much of a muchness I know. Do you know what Aberdeen paid in wages to the year end 2010?

Hibs £4.8m
Sheep £4.6m

[Kaiser1962]

Hibs £4.8m
Sheep £4.6m

Thats the first time in eight years we will have spent more than them I think. They've been outspending us by about £1m a season for a while. Maybe their overspending is catching up with them. Lets hope it catches up with others as well.

Or maybe they are spending less on win bonuses than we are :greengrin

[Luna_Asylum]

This idea that the Board don't give a jot about the football is utter nonsense.

Even if we assume that they are apparently solely focused on the pursuit of zero debt (ignoring of course that we've been running at a loss for years now), if fans stop turning up then income drops, clearly that doesn't fit in with the 'keep everything financially rosy' vision some people seem to reckon they are obsessed with.

So the Board don't want the club spending money we don't have. Shock of all horrors! Just because some other clubs are happy to spend themselves into tens of millions of pounds worth of debt doesn't mean we should, or even can do the same.

In any case, if clubs with significantly lower wage budgets than us can build capable squads and finish high up the table, this idea that CC has two brass pennies with which to attract whatever dregs are out there is just as nonsensical. There is no reason that CC can't build a squad capable of achieving what we expect with the budget we have if used correctly. For me the Board's primary failing in recent years has been to appoint the wrong guy (probably better put as cow towing to who the fans want as much as anything else) to do that job. The amount of money Hughes wasted on a ridiculous number of players speaks for itself.

Hibs have made a profit for the past 6 consecutive years.
I agree the board have profit as their main objective so presumably consider us successful and themselves deserving of their high salaries.

[Caversham Green]

I dont have Aberdeens for 2010 available to me LA so thats fair enoungh. That would make the income over the last 10 years Aberdeen 77.6m compared to our £74.8m. Much of a muchness I know. Do you know what Aberdeen paid in wages to the year end 2010?

Aberdeen's Uefa cup run in 2007-08 made a big difference there Kaiser. Their turnover for that year was £12.9m against Hibs £8.1. That's also why they were able to pay slightly higher wages for the next couple of seasons. Take that out and the two clubs turnover and wages patterns are very similar over the piece.

[new malkyhib]

[QUOTE=ScottB;2825869]This idea that the Board don't give a jot about the football is utter nonsense.

Ask Hyland then about our record against that lot in particluar - I have, and the phrase "don't give a jot" did spring to mind, actually.

Are any of them on that Board Hibs supporters, far less football fans even?

[Arch Stanton]

[QUOTE=ScottB;2825869]This idea that the Board don't give a jot about the football is utter nonsense.

Ask Hyland then about our record against that lot in particluar - I have, and the phrase "don't give a jot" did spring to mind, actually.

Are any of them on that Board Hibs supporters, far less football fans even?

But surely his job is to be concerned about our future, not our past.

[new malkyhib]

[QUOTE=new malkyhib;2825886]

But surely his job is to be concerned about our future, not our past.

Or our "future" record against them then? I'm sorry, you've lost me pal.

[Kaiser1962]

Aberdeen's Uefa cup run in 2007-08 made a big difference there Kaiser. Their turnover for that year was £12.9m against Hibs £8.1. That's also why they were able to pay slightly higher wages for the next couple of seasons. Take that out and the two clubs turnover and wages patterns are very similar over the piece.

Income is pretty similar between Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen over the piece really and wages between the three were similar as well up till the point Vlad took over then the Yams go through the roof.

What was interesting was that SPL stats published recently on overall performance seemed to directly reflect what each club was paying in wages. Doing well, or better in Hearts case, did not mean income rose accordingly. For every £1 spent the return was about 17p.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

I believe the technical term you are looking for is fair weather fan!!<br />
<br />
Most ppl support their team through thick and thin, its because of all the crap you put up with that when something good does happen you savour it all the more. IMO<br />
<br />
That seems to be the arguement that the board use as well is it not? The money for the squad comes from the revenue from season tickets so if the fans don't dig deep then the money is not there to invest in the squad. Expecting people to fork out en masse for no return is unrealistic. Where we are now, might bring us success in the long term but it may take five or so years for the infrastructure to bring us another team of quality home grown players. By the time that happens, there could be a generation of fans who have stopped going.

[Arch Stanton]

[QUOTE=crabit;2825887]

Or our "future" record against them then? I'm sorry, you've lost me pal.

Maybe you confused yourself by introducing the word 'record' - I just talked about our future.

In any case our 'future record' would encompass how we fared against them in the future - that's not an outlandish concept, is it?

[new malkyhib]

[QUOTE=new malkyhib;2825890]

Maybe you confused yourself by introducing the word 'record' - I just talked about our future.

In any case our 'future record' would encompass how we fared against them in the future - that's not an outlandish concept, is it?

Maybe I did aye, or maybe you're just trying to cloud the point? What about our "current" record against them then? Will that do?

I really will try to be more succinct in "future" though.

[Arch Stanton]

[QUOTE=crabit;2825894]

Maybe I did aye, or maybe you're just trying to cloud the point? What about our "current" record against them then? Will that do?

I really will try to be more succinct in "future" though.

Hyland is in a position to affect how we play against them in the future - he is not in a position to change our results against them in the past - that was my point.

And to be honest, his tetchy reply says to me that he does care - if he really didn't care then I'm sure he could have palmed you off with a stock reply.

[Caversham Green]

Income is pretty similar between Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen over the piece really and wages between the three were similar as well up till the point Vlad took over then the Yams go through the roof.

What was interesting was that SPL stats published recently on overall performance seemed to directly reflect what each club was paying in wages. Doing well, or better in Hearts case, did not mean income rose accordingly. For every £1 spent the return was about 17p.

:agree: I've said on another thread that I think the yams' half-arsed tilt at the league in 2005-06 brought in a fair few fans and they're probably still benefitting from it now, but despite the fact that they were miles better than us in the season just finished they remain a perfect example of how not to run a football club. For that reason there's really not much point in including them in these discussions - they should be running away with third place every season with the amount of wages they pay.

My view is that in the third tier of payers - Hibs, Aberdeen, United etc - paying a few hundred thousand extra in wages, while giving a bit of an edge, won't really guarantee a better performance. It's the manager that does that, and that's really where we have evidently slipped up in recent years. If we want a real advantage over those clubs we would need to spend at the yams level to make a difference and that's unrealistic given the club's circumstances.

[ScottB]

Hibs have made a profit for the past 6 consecutive years.
I agree the board have profit as their main objective so presumably consider us successful and themselves deserving of their high salaries.

We've made small profits after player sales, without that we've been running at a loss, and certainly will have made a big loss in the current financial year.


[QUOTE=ScottB;2825869]This idea that the Board don't give a jot about the football is utter nonsense.

Ask Hyland then about our record against that lot in particluar - I have, and the phrase "don't give a jot" did spring to mind, actually.

Are any of them on that Board Hibs supporters, far less football fans even?

Why do they need to be Hibs fans exactly? Does CC need to be one to do his job / want us to win games? How about the players? These are guys brought in to do specific jobs to run the business (because we are, like all teams, a business), not to put on strips and sing in the East Stand.

He may not personally care in the sense that we do, but as I said, it's a hell of a lot harder for the Board to keep us on something close to an even financial keel of we are constantly losing games. The idea that the Board would be happy with a team in the bottom half of the table is a non starter, for one thing it represents an extremely poor return on the money we do spend, for another, we stop turning up, income goes down, club loses money, Board miss their 'primary' target.

Even if the Board care more about the financials than anything it can't be (and isn't) taken separately from the football. If anybody is sitting around hoping for a new Board that will come in and spend (non existent) money left right and center, they'll be waiting till some point after hell freezes over.

[Saorsa]

Originally Posted by ScottB

if fans stop turning up then income drops

Then we have tae ask why that is happening.

Is it because product on the park has been on the slide for years now while this board has concentrated on infrastructure and is now totally unacceptable for the money being asked for and folk are fed up throwing away hundreds of pounds on *****?

Is it because for years now folk have paid hundreds of pounds only tae have tae continually watch our best players leave for ££££££'s tae be replaced in the main by a various collection of ham & eggers.

Tell me, do you expect folk just tae keep throwing away hundreds of pounds every year and acccept whatever ***** is put in front of them? Or do you think they're entitled tae get pissed off with it and stop and spend their money on something more worthwhile?

[ScottB]

Then we have tae ask why that is happening.

Is it because product on the park has been on the slide for years now while this board has concentrated on infrastructure and is now totally unacceptable for the money being asked for and folk are fed up throwing away hundreds of pounds on *****?

Is it because for years now folk have paid hundreds of pounds only tae have tae continually watch our best players leave for ££££££'s tae be replaced in the main by a various collection of ham & eggers.

Tell me, do you expect folk just tae keep throwing away hundreds of pounds every year and acccept whatever ***** is put in front of them? Or do you think they're entitled tae get pissed off with it and stop and spend their money on something more worthwhile?

That's pretty much the point I was making.

The Board can be accused of doing many things wrong, but not caring isn't one of them. Collins, Mixu and Hughes were unquestionably backed in the transfer market. Together they probably signed 50 odd players, Hughes himself probably brought in the best part of 25. Much of these players were, as you say, rubbish.

Hence why I said the Boards primary failing has been putting the wrong man in charge. We spend what, the 4th or 5th most on wages, we've brought in dozens of players in the last few years. On paper, that sounds like the Board did what they could. The problem was that the men they put in charge spent their money badly, which is easy to say with hindsight of course, and at the time of each appointment, the majority of the fanbase wanted Collins / Mixu / Hughes to get the job.

I'm hoping that CC, a guy who came out of left field that the fans weren't shouting for, represents a return to the process that brought Mowbray into the job, ie the Board weren't listening to us and went out and found their own man.


Of course, given the problems of the last few years, people are going to stop turning up, never mind the economic situation. That's a fact. A fact that our supposedly money obsessed Board will be acutely aware of as they look at the drop in income. They backed CC in January, strengthening the squad, and I have every confidence that they will do so again this summer.

[silverhibee]

Then we have tae ask why that is happening.

Is it because product on the park has been on the slide for years now while this board has concentrated on infrastructure and is now totally unacceptable for the money being asked for and folk are fed up throwing away hundreds of pounds on *****?

Is it because for years now folk have paid hundreds of pounds only tae have tae continually watch our best players leave for ££££££'s tae be replaced in the main by a various collection of ham & eggers.

Tell me, do you expect folk just tae keep throwing away hundreds of pounds every year and acccept whatever ***** is put in front of them? Or do you think they're entitled tae get pissed off with it and stop and spend their money on something more worthwhile?

Since the Mowbray days the squad has been diluted and diluted until it has become so clear wee can hardly see it anymore. :greengrin

[Saorsa]

That's pretty much the point I was making.

The Board can be accused of doing many things wrong, but not caring isn't one of them. Collins, Mixu and Hughes were unquestionably backed in the transfer market. Together they probably signed 50 odd players, Hughes himself probably brought in the best part of 25. Much of these players were, as you say, rubbish.

Hence why I said the Boards primary failing has been putting the wrong man in charge. We spend what, the 4th or 5th most on wages, we've brought in dozens of players in the last few years. On paper, that sounds like the Board did what they could. The problem was that the men they put in charge spent their money badly, which is easy to say with hindsight of course, and at the time of each appointment, the majority of the fanbase wanted Collins / Mixu / Hughes to get the job.

I'm hoping that CC, a guy who came out of left field that the fans weren't shouting for, represents a return to the process that brought Mowbray into the job, ie the Board weren't listening to us and went out and found their own man.


Of course, given the problems of the last few years, people are going to stop turning up, never mind the economic situation. That's a fact. A fact that our supposedly money obsessed Board will be acutely aware of as they look at the drop in income. They backed CC in January, strengthening the squad, and I have every confidence that they will do so again this summer.Are you seriously telling me that the 3 managers previous tae CC were appointed simply because the fans wanted them? They may have been favourite choices with the fans but that's not why the were appointed, not on you nelly. That's a poor excuse for puting the wrong man in the job 3 times

[Ryan69]

The season ticket sales are well down and the board only have themselves to blame for this. Their approach has been nothing short of bland and lackadaisical and they have now instilled this apparent apathy into the fans who are expressing their complete dissatisfaction.

I don't want the board spending huge sums on transfer fees, in-fact in this current climate I don't want them to spend any money on transfer fees! What I do want is a better wage structure that will attract reasonable quality players to the club not the dross we have been witnessing in the last few years nor settling for the managers third and fourth choice coming in. And, it may stop us losing our signing targets to other much lesser teams...

I'll buy the strips for my boys but right now, can't see myself returning to Easter Road due to the product on the park, the boards apparent lack of wanting to put a product on the park and, lastly and most disappointingly, the atmosphere at ER is appalling!

I really don't enjoy matches anymore and can't see it getting better anytime soon...

Disillusioned?? Maybe!

In a Nutshell! Spot on mate thats exactly how it is! :not worth

[ScottB]

Are you seriously telling me that the last 3 managers were appointed simply because the fans wanted them? They may have been favourite choices with the fans but that's not why the were appointed, not on you nelly. That's a poor excuse for puting the wrong man in the job 3 times

Of course not the only reason, but I have to suspect it's a factor. Certainly, if the fans are all clamoring for an acceptable candidate, I have to think that would influence the Board's choice.

But that is no excuse for doing so three times, but I'm hoping they've learned their lesson. The appointment of CC seemed to follow a different rationale than the last 3 at least. Time will tell I suppose.

[BEEJ]

Of course not the only reason, but I have to suspect it's a factor. Certainly, if the fans are all clamoring for an acceptable candidate, I have to think that would influence the Board's choice.
How would the Board have assessed fans opinion on this fundamental point?

If they, for example, had come on to Hibs.net and established that 75% of posters on here in a poll at the time favoured Yogi as the next manager (probably 300 votes cast in total), then they were taking the views of a very small sample of the entire Hibs support.

Hardly a scientific approach. How else would they have 'heard the collective voice' of the fan base?

[new malkyhib]

Of course not the only reason, but I have to suspect it's a factor. Certainly, if the fans are all clamoring for an acceptable candidate, I have to think that would influence the Board's choice.

But that is no excuse for doing so three times, but I'm hoping they've learned their lesson. The appointment of CC seemed to follow a different rationale than the last 3 at least. Time will tell I suppose.

Allegedley CC was second behind Hughes when Yogi got the job. Having "mutually consented" Hughes they went back for Calderwood - I think they actually got him for nowt after Newcastle dropped their compensation demands - although I stand to be corrected on that point. So how that's a "different rationale" is beyond me. We appear to have appointed another guy that will tow the party line (all IMO of course).

Scottish football may have its ills, however one thing that does tend to excite is when a team outside the Ugly Sisters looks like it may challenge the established order, viz Aberdeen and Dun Utd in the 80's.

Hibs are one of the few teams that could fill that void if only we had some visionaries on our Board, sadly we don't, and the lowering of expectations to where we are now is a sad indictment on the present incumbents.

[Ants]

The season ticket sales are well down and the board only have themselves to blame for this. Their approach has been nothing short of bland and lackadaisical and they have now instilled this apparent apathy into the fans who are expressing their complete dissatisfaction.

I don't want the board spending huge sums on transfer fees, in-fact in this current climate I don't want them to spend any money on transfer fees! What I do want is a better wage structure that will attract reasonable quality players to the club not the dross we have been witnessing in the last few years nor settling for the managers third and fourth choice coming in. And, it may stop us losing our signing targets to other much lesser teams...

I'll buy the strips for my boys but right now, can't see myself returning to Easter Road due to the product on the park, the boards apparent lack of wanting to put a product on the park and, lastly and most disappointingly, the atmosphere at ER is appalling!

I really don't enjoy matches anymore and can't see it getting better anytime soon...

Disillusioned?? Maybe!

YOU HAVE JUST SUMMERISED 27 PAGES OF DEBATE.

WE ALL AS FANS ARE FEELING THE PAIN, BUT its just another game to the players who have a short term career and must make as much money as possible....
Players come and go, managers come and go, the fans have to endure the remains.

[HibsMax]

YOU HAVE JUST SUMMERISED 27 PAGES OF DEBATE.

WE ALL AS FANS ARE FEELING THE PAIN, BUT its just another game to the players who have a short term career and must make as much money as possible....
Players come and go, managers come and go, the fans have to endure the remains.

The fans, which I am sure includes some Hibs staff, are the only constant. Everything else comes and goes.

[new malkyhib]

[QUOTE=new malkyhib;2825895]

Hyland is in a position to affect how we play against them in the future - he is not in a position to change our results against them in the past - that was my point.

And to be honest, his tetchy reply says to me that he does care - if he really didn't care then I'm sure he could have palmed you off with a stock reply.

Which he did do.

[Ants]

The fans, which I am sure includes some Hibs staff, are the only constant. Everything else comes and goes.

You can change your wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/husband
but you dont change your team!!!
THAT IS THE ONLY CONSTANT.

[HibsMax]

You can change your wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/husband
but you dont change your team!!!
THAT IS THE ONLY CONSTANT.

Are we in VIOLENT agreement? :wink:

[new malkyhib]

That's pretty much the point I was making.

The Board can be accused of doing many things wrong, but not caring isn't one of them. Collins, Mixu and Hughes were unquestionably backed in the transfer market. Together they probably signed 50 odd players, Hughes himself probably brought in the best part of 25. Much of these players were, as you say, rubbish.

Hence why I said the Boards primary failing has been putting the wrong man in charge. We spend what, the 4th or 5th most on wages, we've brought in dozens of players in the last few years. On paper, that sounds like the Board did what they could. The problem was that the men they put in charge spent their money badly, which is easy to say with hindsight of course, and at the time of each appointment, the majority of the fanbase wanted Collins / Mixu / Hughes to get the job.

I'm hoping that CC, a guy who came out of left field that the fans weren't shouting for, represents a return to the process that brought Mowbray into the job, ie the Board weren't listening to us and went out and found their own man.


Of course, given the problems of the last few years, people are going to stop turning up, never mind the economic situation. That's a fact. A fact that our supposedly money obsessed Board will be acutely aware of as they look at the drop in income. They backed CC in January, strengthening the squad, and I have every confidence that they will do so again this summer.

Aye, after selling Bamba & Zemamma.

They've spent money in the past when we've been in danger of relegation or when we were in the First Division. Tell me of a time when they've spent money to consolidate from a positon of relative strength?

[Ants]

Are we in VIOLENT agreement? :wink:
Aye okay then.....

[Kaiser1962]

[/B]

Aye, after selling Bamba & Zemamma.

They've spent money in the past when we've been in danger of relegation or when we were in the First Division. Tell me of a time when they've spent money to consolidate from a positon of relative strength?

Against their will was it?

Were do you think this money we are to spend is coming from?

[new malkyhib]

Against their will was it?

Were do you think this money we are to spend is coming from?

So where did the money come from when we were in the First Division? It's the same argument is it not?

[Kaiser1962]

So where did the money come from when we were in the First Division? It's the same argument is it not?

We spent lots of money getting in players to get us out of the first and to compete in the SPL. McLeish had a bigger budget than any Hibs manager before or since. We "invested" in the team and "speculated to accumulate" on the likes of Sauzee and John O'Neil, amongst other.

Unfortunately the investment didnt work as not enough people paid not enough money to keep it going. We only accumulated debt.

[new malkyhib]

We spent lots of money getting in players to get us out of the first and to compete in the SPL. McLeish had a bigger budget than any Hibs manager before or since. We "invested" in the team and "speculated to accumulate" on the likes of Sauzee and John O'Neil, amongst other.

Unfortunately the investment didnt work as not enough people paid not enough money to keep it going. We only accumulated debt.

So you regret seeing Sauzee and Latapy in a Hibs jersey then? They spent money at that time because they HAD to get out the First Division at the first time of asking - they didn't spend it because they wanted to, that's for sure.

The current incumbents are the Boardroom equivalent of Alex Miller. 'Nuff said eh?

[Kaiser1962]

So you regret seeing Sauzee and Latapy in a Hibs jersey then? They spent money at that time because they HAD to get out the First Division at the first time of asking - they didn't spend it because they wanted to, that's for sure.

The current incumbents are the Boardroom equivalent of Alex Miller. 'Nuff said eh?

When did I say I regretted seeing Sauzee and Latapy Malky?

[new malkyhib]

When did I say I regretted seeing Sauzee and Latapy Malky?

"speculated to accumulate" on the likes of Sauzee and John O'Neil, amongst other.

See above Kaiser. The "speculate to accumulate" mantra seems to be the stick used to beat the fans who want to see a break from the grinding mediocrity that appears to be the accepted norm at Easter Road.

The biggest challenge as I see it was for this Board to try to maintain the highs that we threatened to achieve under Tony Mowbray with the team of Brown, Thomson, Whittaker et al. We couldn't expect to replace these players like-for-like, but we should've augmented them with better than Kerr and Keenan and co.

We're reaping what we've sown now with the "safety first" policy of our Board of accountants, IMO. There was, and is, another way...

[Kaiser1962]

"speculated to accumulate" on the likes of Sauzee and John O'Neil, amongst other.

See above Kaiser. The "speculate to accumulate" mantra seems to be the stick used to beat the fans who want to see a break from the grinding mediocrity that appears to be the accepted norm at Easter Road.

The biggest challenge as I see it was for this Board to try to maintain the highs that we threatened to achieve under Tony Mowbray with the team of Brown, Thomson, Whittaker et al. We couldn't expect to replace these players like-for-like, but we should've augmented them with better than Kerr and Keenan and co.

We're reaping what we've sown now with the "safety first" policy of our Board of accountants, IMO. There was, and is, another way...

So where did I say I regretted seeing the likes of Sauzee and Latapy?

Whose money do you think they spent? They tried not going with the "safety first" policy and it almost cost us ER.

[Dr Jimmy]

"speculated to accumulate" on the likes of Sauzee and John O'Neil, amongst other.

See above Kaiser. The "speculate to accumulate" mantra seems to be the stick used to beat the fans who want to see a break from the grinding mediocrity that appears to be the accepted norm at Easter Road.

The biggest challenge as I see it was for this Board to try to maintain the highs that we threatened to achieve under Tony Mowbray with the team of Brown, Thomson, Whittaker et al. We couldn't expect to replace these players like-for-like, but we should've augmented them with better than Kerr and Keenan and co.

We're reaping what we've sown now with the "safety first" policy of our Board of accountants, IMO. There was, and is, another way...

Couldn't agree more, but you better get ready for the "how you gonna pay for it" or "put your own money in" brigades.

[Kaiser1962]

Couldn't agree more, but you better get ready for the "how you gonna pay for it" or "put your own money in" brigades.

Thatll be me then :greengrin

So how are we going to pay for it? We tried it before but folk didnt turn up. I wish they did but they didnt. As I said it almost cost us ER.

[new malkyhib]

Couldn't agree more, but you better get ready for the "how you gonna pay for it" or "put your own money in" brigades.

I do put my own money in though, in the form of a season ticket Max. I'm getting tired of being fed the same old "transitional season" crap every year though.

I bang on about our record against that lot, which is bad enough - someone pointed out on another thread though that we have something like one win in the last eight games against St Johnstone, and as for our record against ICT, well that's just embarrassing.

A club like Hibs simply shouldn't be in that position, but I wonder if that even crosses our Board's mind at times...there just seems to be no winning mentality at any level of the club.

[down the slope]

We spent lots of money getting in players to get us out of the first and to compete in the SPL. McLeish had a bigger budget than any Hibs manager before or since. We "invested" in the team and "speculated to accumulate" on the likes of Sauzee and John O'Neil, amongst other.

Unfortunately the investment didnt work as not enough people paid not enough money to keep it going. We only accumulated debt.

So it's the fans fault is it ?, the sky deal fell apart and that was why it could not keep going. It seems we the fans are always to blame when actually we are run by a bunch of balloons who know diddly squat about football , why the big defence of the board ?, have a look at the last league table and tell me why it's the fans fault ?.

[Saorsa]

So where did I say I regretted seeing the likes of Sauzee and Latapy?

Whose money do you think they spent? They tried not going with the "safety first" policy and it almost cost us ER.They went too far one way and nearly lost ER, now they have gone to far the other way and are losing the punters instead. The product on the field is a disaster, they have ER but it's half empty and getting emptier and that winnae change any time soon if we carry on as we're going. How much potential revenue has been lost due tae falling attendances, poor cup runs, etc because of the poor performance of the on field product? I've never looked for the board tae spend crazy money as some put it, I've only wanted a more balanced approach. Too much infrastructure too quickly (in fact too much altogether IMO ) and not enough emphasis on the product they are actually trying tae sell tae the punters. That product is all there is left tae sell for now and less and less people want tae buy it because it's so poor.

I'm sure you'll probably disagree with me :greengrin

[Kaiser1962]

So it's the fans fault is it ?, the sky deal fell apart and that was why it could not keep going. It seems we the fans are always to blame when actually we are run by a bunch of balloons who know diddly squat about football , why the big defence of the board ?, have a look at the last league table and tell me why it's the fans fault ?.

Our expectations are unrealistic. There are not enough of us willing to pay regularly to match the expectations that some of us have.

[Kaiser1962]

They went too far one way and nearly lost ER, now they have gone to far the other way and are losing the punters instead. The product on the field is a disaster, they have ER but it's half empty and getting emptier and that winnae change any time soon if we carry on as we're going. How much potential revenue has been lost due tae falling attendances, poor cup runs, etc because of the poor performance of the on field product? I've never looked for the board tae spend crazy money as some put it, I've only wanted a more balanced approach. Too much infrastructure too quickly (in fact too much altogether IMO ) and not enough emphasis on the product they are actually trying tae sell tae the punters. That product is all there is left tae sell for now and less and less people want tae buy it because it's so poor.

I'm sure you'll probably disagree with me :greengrin

Actually I agree with 90% of that Dan. :greengrin

[Beefster]

Thatll be me then :greengrin

So how are we going to pay for it? We tried it before but folk didnt turn up. I wish they did but they didnt. As I said it almost cost us ER.

More commercial activity (e.g. renaming the stadium - if folk want a better team and teams like Arsenal aren't above it, I don't see why we should be, better partnerships with business etc etc), better attempts at attracting more support to ER (I've posted on this before), encouraging more income from middle-income and wealthy Hibs fans, looking for outside investment etc. Scottish football (and Hibs in particular) are still in the dark ages when it comes to maximising income.

I, as a long-term and frequent 'customer', have never had any contact from Hibs beyond 'renew your ST' and 'buy a strip'. They don't know which supporters might be willing to put more money (whatever amount but more than £400) into the club if they were given certain assurances.

A football club has to offer more nowadays that a seat, a burnt pie, a weak Bovril and 90 minutes of tedium. There are too many other competing attractions for everyone now - even compared with 10 years ago.

[Beefster]

Our expectations are unrealistic. There are not enough of us willing to pay regularly to match the expectations that some of us have.

It's not about us not being willing to pay regularly enough or not. It's about Hibs not doing enough to attract more of us to want to.

The number of times that Hibs get off scot-free for their lack of customers while the 'potential' support get the blame is unbelievable. No-one says "Aye, M&S customers just dont buy enough clothes and food. It's not that M&S's offerings are unattractive to potential customers".

[Baldy Foghorn]

"speculated to accumulate" on the likes of Sauzee and John O'Neil, amongst other.

See above Kaiser. The "speculate to accumulate" mantra seems to be the stick used to beat the fans who want to see a break from the grinding mediocrity that appears to be the accepted norm at Easter Road.

The biggest challenge as I see it was for this Board to try to maintain the highs that we threatened to achieve under Tony Mowbray with the team of Brown, Thomson, Whittaker et al. We couldn't expect to replace these players like-for-like, but we should've augmented them with better than Kerr and Keenan and co.

We're reaping what we've sown now with the "safety first" policy of our Board of accountants, IMO. There was, and is, another way...

Spot on.....:top marks

We need to put quality out on the park, pronto

[ScottB]

So you regret seeing Sauzee and Latapy in a Hibs jersey then? They spent money at that time because they HAD to get out the First Division at the first time of asking - they didn't spend it because they wanted to, that's for sure.

The current incumbents are the Boardroom equivalent of Alex Miller. 'Nuff said eh?

The vast amount of debt built up by that squad nearly had us in administration and led to years of cost cutting.

That squad got us promoted straight back up, a 3rd place and a Cup Final. It was also great to watch, yet where we packing the stadium every week? No.


As for selling Bamba and Zemmama, as has been said repeatedly, we are running at a big loss before player sales. We need to sell guys to maintain our current levels of spending! Besides, Bamba was never, ever going to stay, may as well get something for him and bring in some players who gave a damn. I like Zouma, but he was about as strong and consistent as wet toilet paper.

[Kaiser1962]

Spot on.....:top marks

We need to put quality out on the park, pronto

We do. No argument.

But as I have said before we tried it and it nearly cost us our existence. Others have tried. McLeish once said that all the Hibs fans kept telling him how many of us were out there and, at the end, he concluded they werent there. There are not as many of us as some seem to think. I fail to see how it will be different this time as there is nothing new being offered. It is not like going to Asda instead of Tesco.

We were threatened with closure 20 years ago and had to rely on someone who, if some accounts are to be believed, had to be strongarmed into getting involved by the Catholic Church FFS. Whatever the truth was he tried hard not to get involved but thank god he did. Some believe there were many other bids and loads of folk waiting to get in there well let them step forward now. Let them go public on their plans. Christ we need the money.

Maybe Bobby Williamson was right. We have a hugely over inflated opinion of our place in the scheme of things.

[ScottB]

The thing about attracting new people to come, how would you do such a thing?

Beyond the few thousand folk who gave drifted away in recent years, where does a club find new fans willing to turn up and buy a season ticket? We aren't a shop, we can't try and lure 'customers' of other clubs to us, for example.

We could try going after kids, but chances are if their parents are interested enough to take them to a game, they already support a team. All the students who turn up to Edinburgh each year is a potential, but unlikely to fork out on a regular basis.

People seem to complain that the Board don't attract new fans. Personally I'm not convinced it's possible. If our two best teams in the last few decades (Mcleish and Mowbray) couldn't get us having sell outs every week, then I don't see what possibly will. Other than a big drop in price possibly, but that could easily just end up in a big drop in income.

[Kaiser1962]

So you regret seeing Sauzee and Latapy in a Hibs jersey then??

And you're not withdrawing this?

[joebakerforever]

The thing about attracting new people to come, how would you do such a thing?

Beyond the few thousand folk who gave drifted away in recent years, where does a club find new fans willing to turn up and buy a season ticket? We aren't a shop, we can't try and lure 'customers' of other clubs to us, for example.

We could try going after kids, but chances are if their parents are interested enough to take them to a game, they already support a team. All the students who turn up to Edinburgh each year is a potential, but unlikely to fork out on a regular basis.

People seem to complain that the Board don't attract new fans. Personally I'm not convinced it's possible. If our two best teams in the last few decades (Mcleish and Mowbray) couldn't get us having sell outs every week, then I don't see what possibly will. Other than a big drop in price possibly, but that could easily just end up in a big drop in income.

So in that case, have Petrie & Co. blundered in commissioning a revamped stadium with increased capacity ?

[down the slope]

So in that case, have Petrie & Co. blundered in commissioning a revamped stadium with increased capacity ?

Nice one , lets see what the board apologists make of that .

[Beefster]

The thing about attracting new people to come, how would you do such a thing?

Beyond the few thousand folk who gave drifted away in recent years, where does a club find new fans willing to turn up and buy a season ticket? We aren't a shop, we can't try and lure 'customers' of other clubs to us, for example.

We could try going after kids, but chances are if their parents are interested enough to take them to a game, they already support a team. All the students who turn up to Edinburgh each year is a potential, but unlikely to fork out on a regular basis.

People seem to complain that the Board don't attract new fans. Personally I'm not convinced it's possible. If our two best teams in the last few decades (Mcleish and Mowbray) couldn't get us having sell outs every week, then I don't see what possibly will. Other than a big drop in price possibly, but that could easily just end up in a big drop in income.

I despair. This is probably exactly the sort of thinking that goes on in the Hibs boardroom.

[ScottB]

I despair. This is probably exactly the sort of thinking that goes on in the Hibs boardroom.

Go on then, how would you attract new fans to the club?

[ScottB]

So in that case, have Petrie & Co. blundered in commissioning a revamped stadium with increased capacity ?

Hmmm possibly.

On the other hand, sooner or later the East Stand had to be replaced, and obviously it would be a bigger capacity stand than was there. Long term the planning permission would expire with possibly no chance of getting it renewed. Secondly because of the recession it cost significantly less than the Board had projected.

Hopefully it will also open up new revenue streams hosting internationals / cup matches.

Did we need a new stand? Probably not. Was it a good idea to do it? Probably yes.

[truehibernian]

Go on then, how would you attract new fans to the club?

Watch the team train days during pre-season (can be held at ER easily for a couple of days), half price season tickets, buy one strip get one free, better half time entertainment, players visiting schools instead of going to Hills or Ladbrokes in the afternoon, website updated daily and be more interactive and fun for young folk, follow up quickly on the success of Green Day and announce Green Day fixtures in advance regardless of league position, enlist support from 'famous fans' such as Andy Murray, Dougray Scott, Irvine Welsh, Pat Nevin, Strachan, The Proclaimers (now that would be a nice wee half time gig)......get Le God over for a couple of games..........the list is endless. Hibs are a wonderful club but we (collectively) could be doing so much more...............we're all good at moaning though.....maybe introduce a 'swear box' in the East.........we'd have a Champions League transfer kitty in no time :greengrin

[Kaiser1962]

Go on then, how would you attract new fans to the club?

Beefster made a number of half decent suggestions on the previous page that should be looked at. Some of the things have already been tried to a degree, either here or elsewhere, but no harm in trying again. Naming the stadium being an obvious and cheap one. It wont bring in a huge amount but it's a start.

The problem I have is that the costs involved in football just now far outweigh the revenue available and it's not just here at Hibs. Supporters are passionate about their clubs, be it Stirling Albion or Barcelona, and want to see their clubs competing at the top end. But to do that cost lots of money and, having gambled before and lost, any sensible club would/should be reluctant to do so again unless the market conditions were much more favourable. Which they're not.

We're not a multi national, we're a corner shop trying to compete with the multi nationals and if they get it wrong they close a branch and move on. If we get it wrong we cease to exist.

[Saorsa]

Go on then, how would you attract new fans to the club?Surely the people getting paid 100,000's every year should be the ones coming up with more of those ideas!

[Kaiser1962]

Watch the team train days during pre-season (can be held at ER easily for a couple of days), half price season tickets, buy one strip get one free, better half time entertainment, players visiting schools instead of going to Hills or Ladbrokes in the afternoon, website updated daily and be more interactive and fun for young folk, follow up quickly on the success of Green Day and announce Green Day fixtures in advance regardless of league position, enlist support from 'famous fans' such as Andy Murray, Dougray Scott, Irvine Welsh, Pat Nevin, Strachan, The Proclaimers (now that would be a nice wee half time gig)......get Le God over for a couple of games..........the list is endless. Hibs are a wonderful club but we (collectively) could be doing so much more...............we're all good at moaning though.....maybe introduce a 'swear box' in the East.........we'd have a Champions League transfer kitty in no time :greengrin

Nothing wrong with any of that.

[ScottB]

Beefster made a number of half decent suggestions on the previous page that should be looked at. Some of the things have already been tried to a degree, either here or elsewhere, but no harm in trying again. Naming the stadium being an obvious and cheap one. It wont bring in a huge amount but it's a start.

The problem I have is that the costs involved in football just now far outweigh the revenue available and it's not just here at Hibs. Supporters are passionate about their clubs, be it Stirling Albion or Barcelona, and want to see their clubs competing at the top end. But to do that cost lots of money and, having gambled before and lost, any sensible club would/should be reluctant to do so again unless the market conditions were much more favourable. Which they're not.

We're not a multi national, we're a corner shop trying to compete with the multi nationals and if they get it wrong they close a branch and move on. If we get it wrong we cease to exist.


Surely the people getting paid 100,000's every year should be the ones coming up with more of those ideas!

But all this is based on there being a market of people who presumably like football but don't support a club, or people who support Hibs but don't come to games but could.

Not so sure that is particularly big market to target. A few folk have used shop analogies, which doesn't really work. Tesco can get more customers by convincing folk who go to Sainsbury's or Asda that they are a better bet. We are not going to start trying to convince Hearts or Celtic fans that they should be coming to see us instead!

Promos are probably quite good at padding out the attendance at random games, but to grow as a club and increase the budget for players, we need more season ticket holders, which aren't as easy to get.

[Beefster]

Go on then, how would you attract new fans to the club?

If you search my previous posts, I posted a relatively detailed reply to the same question from Marinello a couple of weeks ago.

Incidentally, I don't get paid to come up with marketing ideas for Hibs. That's what the Board / Exec Team / employees get paid to do.

[joe breezy]

I worked for Hibs for a while on a telemarketing scheme where we called people up direct to try and get them back - this was in 2002

People said get the team on the park and I might consider it, a few years later and that happened

Marketing ideas are worth zip in football if the product on the park isn't there.

[Beefster]

I worked for Hibs for a while on a telemarketing scheme where we called people up direct to try and get them back - this was in 2002

People said get the team on the park and I might consider it, a few years later and that happened

Marketing ideas are worth zip in football if the product on the park isn't there.

It sounds like you were calling lapsed supporters. To be honest, if I had decided to stop getting an ST, it would take a decent team to get me back too - not someone giving me a courtesy call. You're sort of proving my point about the thinking at Hibs though - rely on the existing support without really putting any effort into attracting new people with no emotional attachment to Hibs.

Families are different (and very lucrative). It's about the kids having fun and having stuff to tell everyone afterwards. Ask any parent who's had to traipse around a soft play area or farm. There are also new people moving into Edinburgh and surrounding areas all the time.

I appear to be banging on a locked door with the 'nothing can be done' attitude common at the club and within the support though. Time to stop banging on about it methinks.

[HibsMax]

So in that case, have Petrie & Co. blundered in commissioning a revamped stadium with increased capacity ?

Very possibly. They probably didn't take into account the fans leaving in droves when the going gets tough. Sack the board!

[HibsMax]

Watch the team train days during pre-season (can be held at ER easily for a couple of days), half price season tickets, buy one strip get one free, better half time entertainment, players visiting schools instead of going to Hills or Ladbrokes in the afternoon, website updated daily and be more interactive and fun for young folk, follow up quickly on the success of Green Day and announce Green Day fixtures in advance regardless of league position, enlist support from 'famous fans' such as Andy Murray, Dougray Scott, Irvine Welsh, Pat Nevin, Strachan, The Proclaimers (now that would be a nice wee half time gig)......get Le God over for a couple of games..........the list is endless. Hibs are a wonderful club but we (collectively) could be doing so much more...............we're all good at moaning though.....maybe introduce a 'swear box' in the East.........we'd have a Champions League transfer kitty in no time :greengrin


When people come to Boston they quite often want to take in a game (depending on the time of year). I would say the Sox attract the most attention. Then there are the Celtics and the Bruins. The Pats and Revolution are too far south of the city to make it a viable option to the casual tourist IMO.

How many people who visit Edinburgh even know about Hibs? Maybe Hibs should be doing something to attract one-off visitors e.g., tourists?

I'm going to get shot down but I'm saying it again....SUMMER FOOTBALL!!!!! I know people go on the hols in the summer (you miss what? 2, maybe 3 games?) and I know people do things during the summer but I have to believe that people would me more willing to go to a football match when it's 70 degrees and sunny rather than 40 degrees and snowing. I appreciate that this is out of our hands.

Pre-match entertainment like tail gating. We would need some space for that, it would need to be policed and I don't think the local establishments would appreciate the potential drop in revenue.

I like the idea of pre-season training sessions being open to the public. They do that for the Pats and it's very successful. You get to see your favourite players and sometimes you can even meet them.

The main concern is getting the word out there. Hibs can't assume that everyone knows about them just because they've been around for so long.

Hibernian TV available for select games, in the UK as well (if possible) to try and get people hooked.

I'm sure there are MANY more ideas and we've only been talking about them (remotely) for a few days.

I mean, Hibs could even ask the fans for suggestions! Do they do that already?

[joebakerforever]

Very possibly. They probably didn't take into account the fans leaving in droves when the going gets tough. Sack the board!

But you are ignoring ScottB's assertion that we could not fully fill the lower capacity stadium when we had successful sides under McLeish & Mowbray.

So based on the above, was it not a blunder by Petrie & Co. to sanction the rebuilding of the East Stand with increased capacity ?

ScottB's suggestion that the increased capacity could be utilised for International matches or non-football activities, is pure supposition with no supporting evidence, given past experience.

How many future international fixtures does anyone realistically expect to be allocated to ER by the SFA, and will they be of the calibre to ensure that the "House Full" signs will suddenly become the norm for these hoped for events ?

If it proves to be the case that the increased capacity is hardly ever used, would it not be appropriate to christen the new East stand, "Petrie's White Elephant" :greengrin

[Lucius Apuleius]

The new East had, in my opinion, to be built when it was. Financial and safety/comfort reasons. Also the future would probably not have allowed us to renew planning permission. To build it the size we have or build it to the same capacity as the old one probably would not have been a huge difference in price. It would also have made the ground look pretty bloody stupid and still allowed them in the flats behind to watch for free. There is no right here, only opinions. I personally have always been of the persuasion that once the infrastructure is in place we will concentrate on the pitch. I still believe this. However I am a prudent man and believe strongly we should only spend what we earn. There have been some great ideas on this thread about getting people into ER. I do agree that a winning team will bring in punters but not till we win the league or the cup a couple of times will we manage overshadow rantic in the minds of the youngsters. Just a thought, you reckon we took out PPI on our loans? Hope we have claimed it back if we did.:greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

We have diverted somewhat from what Baldy said in his original post, invest or leave is what he said. It started with £200k-£300k then went to 1/2m. 1/2m only gets you 1 player on a 2 year deal on 5k a week, or 2 players on half that.Considering we have just lost Miller and Riordan, who probably were earning wages in that region?

How much do they seriously need to invest to make a real difference?

[HibsMax]

But you are ignoring ScottB's assertion that we could not fully fill the lower capacity stadium when we had successful sides under McLeish & Mowbray.

So based on the above, was it not a blunder by Petrie & Co. to sanction the rebuilding of the East Stand with increased capacity ?

ScottB's suggestion that the increased capacity could be utilised for International matches or non-football activities, is pure supposition with no supporting evidence, given past experience.

How many future international fixtures does anyone realistically expect to be allocated to ER by the SFA, and will they be of the calibre to ensure that the "House Full" signs will suddenly become the norm for these hoped for events ?

If it proves to be the case that the increased capacity is hardly ever used, would it not be appropriate to christen the new East stand, "Petrie's White Elephant" :greengrin

Sorry, I was being sarcastic. Sort of. Capacity planning is really tough. Building a new stadium, or just one stand, is something that a football club wants to do as few times as possible. I assume Hibs were building with bigger crowds in mind. The two options I see are:
1. build it to accommodate current average attendances and face the possibility of necessary future expansion should our fanbase grow,
2. build it to accommodate a larger number of fans to accommodate growth BUT face the possibility of empty seats.

Both options have issues. One requires more development, the other means empty seats.

Whether or not it's a blunder depends on your point of view. With Hibs current attendances, yes, it was a mistake. But perhaps the board ARE showing some ambition and hope for larger crowds in the future? But if they built it smaller and 2 years from now they realised it was too small, then again they would be at blame for making a blunder e.g., not planning for the future.

I think when it comes to these large, one-off projects you have to take expected growth into account. Obviously the board thinks that we need the extra seats.

I also think that by making the capacity larger we are a viable option for larger events. I have no evidence to suggest that will happen but I think it makes sense to assume that the better facilities will be higher up the pecking order when it comes to these sorts of decisions. That itself is not reason enough to build a bigger stand / stadium BUT it is a reason to be considered.

The board gets accused of being unambitious all the time. About not caring about the fans. Yet they build us a nice big stadium and what do we do? We complain about how it's too big. LOL. I guarantee you, but can't prove it, that if we built the stadium smaller and Hibs started to run short of seats that the board would be lambasted for not thinking about the future and wasting our money building a smaller stand rather than thinking about the future. You just know that an argument like that would start on here. :)

[dangermouse]

Sorry, I was being sarcastic. Sort of. Capacity planning is really tough. Building a new stadium, or just one stand, is something that a football club wants to do as few times as possible. I assume Hibs were building with bigger crowds in mind. The two options I see are:
1. build it to accommodate current average attendances and face the possibility of necessary future expansion should our fanbase grow,
2. build it to accommodate a larger number of fans to accommodate growth BUT face the possibility of empty seats.

Both options have issues. One requires more development, the other means empty seats.

Whether or not it's a blunder depends on your point of view. With Hibs current attendances, yes, it was a mistake. But perhaps the board ARE showing some ambition and hope for larger crowds in the future? But if they built it smaller and 2 years from now they realised it was too small, then again they would be at blame for making a blunder e.g., not planning for the future.

I think when it comes to these large, one-off projects you have to take expected growth into account. Obviously the board thinks that we need the extra seats.

I also think that by making the capacity larger we are a viable option for larger events. I have no evidence to suggest that will happen but I think it makes sense to assume that the better facilities will be higher up the pecking order when it comes to these sorts of decisions. That itself is not reason enough to build a bigger stand / stadium BUT it is a reason to be considered.

The board gets accused of being unambitious all the time. About not caring about the fans. Yet they build us a nice big stadium and what do we do? We complain about how it's too big. LOL. I guarantee you, but can't prove it, that if we built the stadium smaller and Hibs started to run short of seats that the board would be lambasted for not thinking about the future and wasting our money building a smaller stand rather than thinking about the future. You just know that an argument like that would start on here. :)

I'm sure the board also factored in the UEFA stadium requirements when building it hence the new run off areas so should we progress into the group stages of the Europa or Champions League :greengrin we would not need to look for another venue to play the group games. :aok:

[blackpoolhibs]

I wonder if the signing of Garry has been an investment or just a player signed within our budget? :devil: