Board - Invest or leave (Chicken Licken On Standby)

[Ants]

What %age of turnover do you think should be spent on the playing budget then? I would be genuinely interested to know the answer to this as I am no financial expert.

Nor am I any financial expert, but other clubs are more than willing to give it a go and go overdrawn to invest, anticipate, attract, achieve.

The %age factor would be an amount that they (the board) think could be reasonably regained within the clubs financial business plan period.

Hibernian FC are currently failing to attract mediocre players, who are then subsequently signed up by our opposition.

[HFC 0-7]

What %age of turnover do you think should be spent on the playing budget then? I would be genuinely interested to know the answer to this as I am no financial expert.

Not sure what he meant but I think he could mean that spending as a one off in securing players via transfer fees. This would mean its not a running cost as such every year. Where would this money come from? I am not sure as I am not an expert in that area as I am only putting a suggestion out there, but could we not spend 1 million on transfer fees and add that money into the mortgages of the stands so that the debt be spread over a period?

Again, I am just putting suggestions out there but I am sure there must be ways that Hibs would be able to spend an extra million on transfer fees and spread the cost so that its not felt that hard every year on the accounts?

[Mibbes Aye]

Nor am I any financial expert, but other clubs are more than willing to give it a go and go overdrawn to invest, anticipate, attract, achieve.

The %age factor would be an amount that they (the board) think could be reasonably regained within the clubs financial business plan period.

Hibernian FC are currently failing to attract mediocre players, who are then subsequently signed up by our opposition.

Aren't we all glad about that? :confused: :greengrin

[Saorsa]

Aren't we all glad about that? :confused: :greengrinNo if we're getting the < mediocre

[marinello59]

Nor am I any financial expert, but other clubs are more than willing to give it a go and go overdrawn to invest, anticipate, attract, achieve.

The %age factor would be an amount that they (the board) think could be reasonably regained within the clubs financial business plan period.

Hibernian FC are currently failing to attract mediocre players, who are then subsequently signed up by our opposition.

I am more than happy to see our opposition paying over the odds for mediocre players. :greengrin

[Ants]

I am more than happy to see our opposition paying over the odds for mediocre players. :greengrin

And as a result of that they could end up in the top six and we end up in the bottom six.....

[marinello59]

And as a result of that they could end up in the top six and we end up in the bottom six.....

Ah I see. OK, we should aim for mediocrity too. :agree:

[Kaiser1962]

The board have to speculate to accumulate.

We have already had the glory years of bringing the youngsters through and selling them at the earliest opportunity, the quantity of quality youngsters is not there anymore.

The longer the poor quality exists, the less the crowds will be, then the more critisism of the club.


Like Hearts have? Livi, Gretna, Motherwell, Dundee?

Eddie Thomson paid the bills for Dundee Utd and John Boyle took a bath at Motherwell? Who do you think should pay for Hibs "speculate to accumulate" cos the only thing thats certian is that they will lose money.

[Saorsa]

Ah I see. OK, we should aim for mediocrity too. :agree:And we've been aiming somewhere else have we? If we have then it's failed/failing miserably.

[Mibbes Aye]

No if we're getting the < mediocre

:greengrin

Agreed :agree:

It'll be interesting to see. I'm not overly concerned about when in the window we get players. Some will always be available early and some will be right at the death. And that mostly comes down to the players and what options they're weighing up.

It's not an exact science and I think we all would agree the club shouldn't be bounced into anything not in Hibs' interest.

In the run-up to Riordan re-signing we had folk on here saying that Petrie should throw money at it, £500K offer to Celtc because it would pay itself back in season tickets and the suchlike :rolleyes:

In the end we stuck it out to the last day and paid them around what they gave us for him (I believe, and I hope, it was slightly less). We never got it back in season tickets, surprise surprise :greengrin

As I said before, it's not an exact science - for example, Michael Hart was talked up a lot by a good few of us on here before he signed. And if you compared EDG and Sodje's signings, the weight of expectation would have sat far more with the former, yet it's Sodje who has had the biggest impact in a Hibs jersey :dunno:

[Luna_Asylum]

It is an abysmal record but comparable to most clubs outwith the OF.

Champions league? It is loaded against us to the point of being practically impossible.

Our closest competitors are the sheep and the yams and they have i'm absolutley certain european results that put ours to complete shame.

0ne win in 20 years in europe is a total disgrace and there is no glossing over that no matter how much you try and brush it under the carpet.

It's very sad indeed and beyond weird you deem it acceptable.

[Kaiser1962]

[QUOTE=Andy74;2821032]


Andy, are you saying that the board have ambition but are just not very good at their jobs? You are saying that they have spent a lot of money on infrastructure and playing staff but have ended up playing as bad as most can remember and going through A LOT of managers and players in the process.

The board have proved that they are good at cost cutting, building infrastructure and slowly increasing player budgets. They have clearly had plans and implemented them, all these are things they are directly in control of. What they are not in control of is what players are bought via this expanding wage budget as this is the managers job. What they are in control of is the person they appoint for that task. They have been failing more often than not in that area.

I would say now that the board will be feeling the pressure more as there is no longer a new stand or training ground on its way to show what a good job they are doing. People will soon forget that they were responsible for the stands and training facilities and will look only to the pitch to measure the boards performance.

Personally I would say the boards ambition is probably lower than many fans, but more than how we have been performing of late. Yes we have had a 4th place finish here and there but I am sure the board, business minded as they are, will not really see that as a success as they will be looking for good finishes to be sustained not peppered amongst 10th place finishes, relegation form and large amounts of fans disgust.

So who pays? SPL clubs have lost money over the last ten seasons so who do you think should pay for Hibs following the same course as the others?

[Baldy Foghorn]

What %age of turnover do you think should be spent on the playing budget then? I would be genuinely interested to know the answer to this as I am no financial expert.

Wages to turnover currently 67%........

The Board have to do more to increase revenue, and getting more season ticket sales in one factor in this.....By bringing in better quality therefore giving a better product on the park would help to achieve part of this.....

[Kaiser1962]

Our closest competitors are the sheep and the yams and they have i'm absolutley certain european results that put ours to complete shame.

0ne win in 20 years in europe is a total disgrace and there is no glossing over that no matter how much you try and brush it under the carpet.

It's very sad indeed and beyond weird you deem it acceptable.

I dont think its him thats weird at all. He appears to be defending Hibs yet you seem to be cherry picking the stats to suit your agenda.

And comparing Hibs to two clubs who bring in more mone than us and pay more wages than us. Neither can afford it but pay it they do.

[Kaiser1962]

Wages to turnover currently 67%........

The Board have to do more to increase revenue, and getting more season ticket sales in one factor in this.....By bringing in better quality therefore giving a better product on the park would help to achieve part of this.....

So who pays the extra money required to bring in the the better quality?

[Baldy Foghorn]

So who pays the extra money required to bring in the the better quality?

Miller, Riordan, Adams and around 12-13 others have departed.....Does the saved wages on all of these players go back into the budget?

[Kaiser1962]

Miller, Riordan, Adams and around 12-13 others have departed.....Does the saved wages on all of these players go back into the budget?

We pay what we can afford in wages and it has increased year on year over the last 5 seasons. I would be stunned if they managed to increase it this season though.

Can anyone give me an example of a Scottish club thats "speculated to accumulate" and been succesful at it?

[marinello59]

Wages to turnover currently 67%........

The Board have to do more to increase revenue, and getting more season ticket sales in one factor in this.....By bringing in better quality therefore giving a better product on the park would help to achieve part of this.....

It's been said a few times on this thread already, didn't happen when we resigned Deeks. Didn't happen when we signed Stokes and Miller. All players we got within the existing strategy as well.

[Spike Mandela]

[QUOTE=Baldy Foghorn;2821026]

Is building a top class training centre, a top class stadium and increasing the budget year on year at the same time not fairly ambitious?

It's certainly pragmatic and dull but ambitious, not really:rolleyes:

[Ants]

Ah I see. OK, we should aim for mediocrity too. :agree:

Well in realistic terms, if these mediocre players go to another club, perform well and their club ends up above us in the league, then perhaps a bit enthusiasm towards signings would prove fruitful.

Hibs do not sign superstars or "real quality standout" players anymore, generally they are fair to mediocre players who might have the potential show something.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Well in realistic terms, if these mediocre players go to another club, perform well and their club ends up above us in the league, then perhaps a bit enthusiasm towards signings would prove fruitful.

Hibs do not sign superstars or "real quality standout" players anymore, generally they are fair to mediocre players who might have the potential show something.

You, me and a few others I know have written to the Board to voice their concerns, I would imagine a fair few others have also....Wonder how many emails the Board have received since the end of the season from disenchanted supporters....

[Baldy Foghorn]

We pay what we can afford in wages and it has increased year on year over the last 5 seasons. I would be stunned if they managed to increase it this season though.

Can anyone give me an example of a Scottish club thats "speculated to accumulate" and been succesful at it?

Hearts have done it to a certain extent with two scottish Cup wins and getting a regular European spot and even getting to group stages....

No way am I wanting Hibs to go millions into debt, but 200 to 300,000 is sustainable surely?

[Kaiser1962]

Hearts have done it to a certain extent with two scottish Cup wins and getting a regular European spot and even getting to group stages....

No way am I wanting Hibs to go millions into debt, but 200 to 300,000 is sustainable surely?

Under Vlad that has cost them £400k shy of £50m. You dont seriously class that as a success BF?

200k or 300k is sustainable and probably worth the gamble if the choice came up but the reality is it gets you next to hee haw unless all the cards fall your way.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Under Vlad that has cost them £400k shy of £50m. You dont seriously class that as a success BF?

200k or 300k is sustainable and probably worth the gamble if the choice came up but the reality is it gets you next to hee haw.

They won cup in 1998, was Vlad at the helm then? How long has he been the owner, I genuinely don't know?

IF they sell Tynecastle and move to a rented stadium then a good deal of Vlad's debt will be repaid...

[Baldy Foghorn]

Under Vlad that has cost them £400k shy of £50m. You dont seriously class that as a success BF?

200k or 300k is sustainable and probably worth the gamble if the choice came up but the reality is it gets you next to hee haw unless all the cards fall your way.

Agree to a certain extent but would bring in 3 decent players at say 2k per week, I am sure Rooney is on less than 2k per week at Caley.....(Just as an example)

[ScottB]

They won cup in 1998, was Vlad at the helm then? How long has he been the owner, I genuinely don't know?

IF they sell Tynecastle and move to a rented stadium then a good deal of Vlad's debt will be repaid...

They are £30million in the hole and losing the best part of £10million more a season. They'll be lucky to sell Tynie for the amount they lose in a year, then either have to pay for a new stadium, meaning tens of millions of pounds more debt, or rent one, further increasing their debt anyway.

Vlad wasn't in in '98, but they were still massively over spending back then.


As for going a few hundred grand in the hole, sustainable sure, but what's that? One player on 4 grand a week? Two on 2k a week? Hardly going to make us world beaters. Comparing our financial situation to Hearts' is utterly pointless as they are a totally unique situation that defies explanation really.

[matty_f]

Why is it hibs are getting a hard time here for not signing anyone yet when we have signed ivan already?
I hate this wailing about stuff while yet again facts are largely ignored.

[Kaiser1962]

Agree to a certain extent but would bring in 3 decent players at say 2k per week, I am sure Rooney is on less than 2k per week at Caley.....(Just as an example)

Or about 1 Darren Barr or half an Andy Webster?

Its not how much we spend it's how we spend it. We need to spend what we spend but better.

As for Vlad, we, where do you start? They claimed at the AGM that Vlad had "invested" £60m in Hearts and given their losses (near £8m last season again) and their various DfE swaps to enginees the overdraft to below £40m than that might well be on the light side. There is no way selling the Pink Palace is going to recoup anywhere near that. At best they might get £20m.

Given their losses prior to Vlad (2005-2006) yoir probably looking at the best part of £100m over 20 years. They have won two Scottish Cups. We have won two League Cups in the same period.

If you'd pumped that money into them would you be happy with that return?

[Luna_Asylum]

I dont think its him thats weird at all. He appears to be defending Hibs yet you seem to be cherry picking the stats to suit your agenda.

And comparing Hibs to two clubs who bring in more mone than us and pay more wages than us. Neither can afford it but pay it they do.

Then to avoid the cherry picking accusation our euro record over that time has been bettered by the huns tims sheep yams killie well + raith and matched by the 2 dundee clubs st johnstone raith rovers + livingston

[Kaiser1962]

Then to avoid the cherry picking accusation our euro record over that time has been bettered by the huns tims sheep yams killie well + raith and matched by the 2 dundee clubs st johnstone raith rovers + livingston


It is. No doubt. Have all those clubs got farther than us in Euro competitions?

But we have done better in the league than all those clubs bar the OF and Yams. Better than Aberdeen despite them having a greater income than us and paying more in wages.

[ELZ1875]

For everyone who voted that we sign 4 players, what are you all gonna do if we dont sign 4 players at 500k each? Protest? boycott? takeover bid? private investment in the club?

[The Falcon]

Why is it hibs are getting a hard time here for not signing anyone yet when we have signed ivan already?
I hate this wailing about stuff while yet again facts are largely ignored.

Its the way this place works Matty. Haven't you noticed?

[blackpoolhibs]

I cant believe some of the rubbish thats on here. Does anyone really think the money spent on those players and management who have left wont be spent on replacements?

And £200 -£300k extra on players, jeez. Is that on top of what we already spend more than most of them? Why cant we reduce our spending and do as well as Motherwell or Kilmarnock.

I cant believe just how nieve some folk are, instead of thumping your chest asking for more money spent, ask why the man in charge cant do better with more money than quite a few clubs who finished above us?

[Spike Mandela]

I cant believe some of the rubbish thats on here. Does anyone really think the money spent on those players and management who have left wont be spent on replacements?

And £200 -£300k extra on players, jeez. Is that on top of what we already spend more than most of them? Why cant we reduce our spending and do as well as Motherwell or Kilmarnock.

I cant believe just how nieve some folk are, instead of thumping your chest asking for more money spent, ask why the man in charge cant do better with more money than quite a few clubs who finished above us?

You would be naive to think nieve had anything to do with it:greengrin

[Saorsa]

I cant believe some of the rubbish thats on here. Does anyone really think the money spent on those players and management who have left wont be spent on replacements?

And £200 -£300k extra on players, jeez. Is that on top of what we already spend more than most of them? Why cant we reduce our spending and do as well as Motherwell or Kilmarnock.

I cant believe just how nieve some folk are, instead of thumping your chest asking for more money spent, ask why the man in charge cant do better with more money than quite a few clubs who finished above us?Why do we keep getting people that cannae do that? Who keeps picking the man tae put in that position? Have they got it right this time?

[blackpoolhibs]

You would be naive to think nieve had anything to do with it:greengrin
:greengrin

Why do we keep getting people that cannae do that? Who keeps picking the man tae put in that position? Have they got it right this time?

Thats the biggest question that needs answered. :agree:

[silverhibee]

Why is it hibs are getting a hard time here for not signing anyone yet when we have signed ivan already?
I hate this wailing about stuff while yet again facts are largely ignored.


Can you imagine what this place will be like if Hibs dont have two new strikers by this Saturday. :greengrin

:panic::panic::panic::panic::panic::panic:

[Kaiser1962]

Why do we keep getting people that cannae do that? Who keeps picking the man tae put in that position? Have they got it right this time?

You may all be getting your wish if the thoughts on another thread are to be believed and Rod may well be going. The next will be able to put the right person on place first time right? Or how many goes are you prepared to give him.


:greengrin
Thats the biggest question that needs answered. :agree:

I dont get how people think that Kilmarnock and Motherwell do better than us overall? They dont.

What is naive is to think that we can spend more than we have. Unless there is some Abramovich type benefactor backing it up not only would it be naive it would be stupid.

Incidentally it would appear Abramovich cant pick a manager to get him what he wants either. But rather than bitch and moan he pays the bills.

[blackpoolhibs]

You may all be getting your wish if the thoughts on another thread are to be believed and Rod may well be going. The next will be able to put the right person on place first time right? Or how many goes are you prepared to give him.



I dont get how people think that Kilmarnock and Motherwell do better than us overall? They dont.
What is naive is to think that we can spend more than we have. Unless there is some Abramovich type benefactor backing it up not only would it be naive it would be stupid.

Incidentally it would appear Abramovich cant pick a manager to get him what he wants either. But rather than bitch and moan he pays the bills.

I agree they dont normally, but this season they did and now the knee jerkers want us to spend even more money to catch up with them, ignoring the real problem, even though we outspend them now????????

[Hibiza]

Brilliant stadium, half decent team. Remember the dark days of mercer. Thank you Sir Tom farmer.

[Kaiser1962]

I agree they dont normally, but this season they did and now the knee jerkers want us to spend even more money to catch up with them, ignoring the real problem, even though we outspend them now????????

There is a malaise about the club that appears to have been around for about 3 or 4 seasons now. There now appears to be an opportunity to address this and lets hope its successful.

The probable cause is financial constraint but the bit that really grinds my gears is we appear to be making a big effort to deal with issues that are affecting every club and not only in Scotland, while there are clubs who dont give a flying ****, never have, and now that they are feeling the pinch and the situation is looking inceasingly hopeless are looking for public money to subsidise their stupidity. And its not just the Yams either.

[MyJo]

I agree they dont normally, but this season they did and now the knee jerkers want us to spend even more money to catch up with them, ignoring the real problem, even though we outspend them now????????

its about spending better rather than spending more :agree:

[BEEJ]

The probable cause is financial constraint but the bit that really grinds my gears is we appear to be making a big effort to deal with issues that are affecting every club and not only in Scotland, while there are clubs who dont give a flying ****, never have, and now that they are feeling the pinch and the situation is looking inceasingly hopeless are looking for public money to subsidise their stupidity.

And its not just the Yams either.
:agree: Killie have certainly been making noises in that direction.

[blackpoolhibs]

its about spending better rather than spending more :agree:

:agree: Yip got it in one. :top marks

[The Falcon]

:agree: Yip got it in one. :top marks

The really clever bit is finding the uncut gems.

[GloriousHibs]

You don't need to be a marketing expert to increase revenue. Its the 5th of June, heading quickly to the summer hols and there's removed all to buy in the Hibs shop except the new shirt and shorts, not even kids socks are available.

Where's the Hibs bermuda shorts, kids all in one sun suits, girls/ ladies bikini's, ipod mini speakers with Hibs emblem?, where's the beach towels? kids water wings? Hibs travel bags? suitcases? sunhats?

Where's the pool flip flops with badge, waterproof money tube with string? Hibs parasol for bairns buggies? silly daft summer stuff that folk will buy

So may opportunities to make money, we're dealing with removed amateurs

[Saorsa]

You may all be getting your wish if the thoughts on another thread are to be believed and Rod may well be going. The next will be able to put the right person on place first time right? Or how many goes are you prepared to give him. He may or may not, who knows? But the current person has had plenty? And IMO not done very well at it.

[ScottB]

You don't need to be a marketing expert to increase revenue. Its the 5th of June, heading quickly to the summer hols and there's removed all to buy in the Hibs shop except the new shirt and shorts, not even kids socks are available.

Where's the Hibs bermuda shorts, kids all in one sun suits, girls/ ladies bikini's, ipod mini speakers with Hibs emblem?, where's the beach towels? kids water wings? Hibs travel bags? suitcases? sunhats?

Where's the pool flip flops with badge, waterproof money tube with string? Hibs parasol for bairns buggies? silly daft summer stuff that folk will buy

So may opportunities to make money, we're dealing with removed amateurs

Such things cost money to produce, and need to be ordered in significant quantities. How many Hibs iPod docks do you think we'd sell? Or any of that other stuff? Would need to be hundreds, if not thousands for it to actually make us any money.

[The Falcon]

He may or may not, who knows? But the current person has had plenty? And IMO not done very well at it.

So who would you have given the job to Dan?

[The Falcon]

Such things cost money to produce, and need to be ordered in significant quantities. How many Hibs iPod docks do you think we'd sell? Or any of that other stuff? Would need to be hundreds, if not thousands for it to actually make us any money.

Exactly. How many Hibs tops do you see on holiday? I see the odd one or two.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I cant believe some of the rubbish thats on here. Does anyone really think the money spent on those players and management who have left wont be spent on replacements?

And £200 -£300k extra on players, jeez. Is that on top of what we already spend more than most of them? Why cant we reduce our spending and do as well as Motherwell or Kilmarnock.

I cant believe just how nieve some folk are, instead of thumping your chest asking for more money spent, ask why the man in charge cant do better with more money than quite a few clubs who finished above us?

I presume you are directing this at me..... How do you know what will be spent on replacements.....??

Who appoints managers yes youv'e guessed it the Board....Your attitude is really bugging me thinking you are Mr Know it all dismissing other views that don't match yours as rubbish......Nothing naive in asking for some investment, more naive if you think the Board do a great job appointing managers

[Kaiser1962]

I presume you are directing this at me..... How do you know what will be spent on replacements.....??

Who appoints managers yes youv'e guessed it the Board....Your attitude is really bugging me thinking you are Mr Know it all dismissing other views that don't match yours as rubbish......Nothing naive in asking for some investment, more naive if you think the Board do a great job appointing managers

But its not an "investment" BF. Its money thrown at the team that the person paying wont get back. That means it's not an investment as such and more of a gift really.

As I said earlier Vlad has "invested" £60m (at least IMO) in the Yams and over the same period revenue has increased by £10.4m on the same time period prior to Vlads arrival. OK they won the SC and played in Europe (last time for about 28 minutes :greengrin) but investment? Naw.

How much has Murray ploughed into the Huns and eventually sold lock and stock for a quid?

We're not going to resolve the thing about the board appointing managers. They should do better but the club, the money, the competition all affect the quality of the applicant. And our expectation (mine included) outweighs the reality of our standing in the overall scheme of things.

[blackpoolhibs]

I think the board do a terrible job appointing managers, it seems you agree. Yet you. Want to give these dummies more money. You are ignoring just how much we outspend all these huge clubs that are finishing above us. The argument seems to be spend our way out of trouble, we will spend what we take in, we won't keep any back. Again just how much more than these clubs should we spend?

[Kaiser1962]

I think the board do a terrible job appointing managers, it seems you agree. Yet you. Want to give these dummies more money. You are ignoring just how much we outspend all these huge clubs that are finishing above us. The argument seems to be spend our way out of trouble, we will spend what we take in, we won't keep any back. Again just how much more than these clubs should we spend?

This season was a bad season BH and the difference in what we spend might not be as much as you think. Given the big squad we were carrying it might just even out.

[blackpoolhibs]

This season was a bad season BH and the difference in what we spend might not be as much as you think. Given the big squad we were carrying it might just even out.

How many more players did we have last season than inverness Kilmarnock Motherwell and St Johnstone?

And even if we DO say they were on a par with us spending wise, which i dont believe for one moment. Why did they still out perform us?

Calderwood has said many times he wants a slimmer better quality squad, why are folk ignoring this?

He will bring in players, players within our budget but more budget than most. If we fail again it wont be down to what he's given to spend, it will be how he's spent it.

[Kaiser1962]

Kilmarnock had Eremenko who was the difference for them. £20k he was being by the Russians. Motherwell had Craig Brown and, although I take the piss out of him, he is a decent coach and sets his team up well. St.Johnstone have been stable a wee while now. Those clubs thats probably as good as it gets.

Last full years accounts available show that we spent £600k more than Killie, £1.3m more than Well and I dont have the data on St.Johnstone.

Hibs used 36 players, Killie 39 , Motherwell 30, St.Johnstone 35, Inverness 28.

Much of a muchness in players used. Dont know how many players are carried behind the first teams but their wages wont be significant.

I agree that we need to spend what we spend better than we have been but the big trick is identifying those players and making them work. As we know to our cost that's not always the case.

Not just us I would add, every club in Europe is trying to do the same thing.




How many more players did we have last season than inverness Kilmarnock Motherwell and St Johnstone?

And even if we DO say they were on a par with us spending wise, which i dont believe for one moment. Why did they still out perform us?

Calderwood has said many times he wants a slimmer better quality squad, why are folk ignoring this?

He will bring in players, players within our budget but more budget than most. If we fail again it wont be down to what he's given to spend, it will be how he's spent it.

[Caversham Green]

Kilmarnock had Eremenko who was the difference for them. £20k he was being by the Russians. Motherwell had Craig Brown and, although I take the piss out of him, he is a decent coach and sets his team up well. St.Johnstone have been stable a wee while now. Those clubs thats probably as good as it gets.

Last full years accounts available show that we spent £600k more than Killie, £1.3m more than Well and I dont have the data on St.Johnstone.

Hibs used 36 players, Killie 39 , Motherwell 30, St.Johnstone 35, Inverness 28.

Much of a muchness in players used. Dont know how many players are carried behind the first teams but their wages wont be significant.

I agree that we need to spend what we spend better than we have been but the big trick is identifying those players and making them work. As we know to our cost that's not always the case.

Not just us I would add, every club in Europe is trying to do the same thing.

It should be noted that Killie's wage bill includes hotel staff. I don't have the latest accounts, but a few years ago there were 136 of them.

[bighairyfaeleith]

How many more players did we have last season than inverness Kilmarnock Motherwell and St Johnstone?

And even if we DO say they were on a par with us spending wise, which i dont believe for one moment. Why did they still out perform us?

Calderwood has said many times he wants a slimmer better quality squad, why are folk ignoring this?

He will bring in players, players within our budget but more budget than most. If we fail again it wont be down to what he's given to spend, it will be how he's spent it.

Exactly, hibs back there managers very well, it's up to the manager how he spends the cash.

Hibs should not spend more than they earn on players wages, it's commercial suicide and would just mean more years of paying less than we currently pay.

[Stevie Reid]

I'd say it is three quarters, and we weren't exactly brilliant in January either, so that would be 10 out of 12 months.

In any case, Hughes couldn't motivate that bunch from Jan / Feb '10 onwards.

To be fair, we took 10 points out of 15 in Janaury from: -

Hearts (H)
Dundee Utd (A)
Hamilton (H)
Celtic (A)
St. Mirren (H)

Heady days, especially compared to our remaining 5 fixtures of last season.

I'm glad Yogi's gone, we all remember the horrendous times - it's a bit unfair to dismiss the better ones though!

[Baldy Foghorn]

I think the board do a terrible job appointing managers, it seems you agree. Yet you. Want to give these dummies more money. You are ignoring just how much we outspend all these huge clubs that are finishing above us. The argument seems to be spend our way out of trouble, we will spend what we take in, we won't keep any back. Again just how much more than these clubs should we spend?

So what do we do then, sack another "dummy"......The Board must take the flak for appointing "dummy" after "dummy"....Do we then not give money to the "dummy" in charge, it is all very frustrating.......

I am not asking for millions to be spent, but a little more to bring in a quality type player....In the January window, just how many of CC's first choice players were brought in.....I doubt Sodje was first on his list, but after working his way through his list Sodje was probably all that was available at that time for the money available.....(I am not having a pop at Sodje, as I like him, just using him as an example). Hibs are well renowned for not breaking the bank, but is a couple of hundred thousand being spent really that much of a realistic ask?

[Aldo]

TBH we are always going to be at the end of the queue for players during the transfer window. Unless they are coming from the lower scottish leagues and outwith the OF and the Yams , teams in just about all the English leagues pay more than us as well.

Thus we will struggle to get the quality of player required to enhance the team. Latapy etc came at a cost and we have managed to get the debt to a minimum and lets face it I would rather be in our position than the Yams.

We can only hope that CC can persuade these guys and sell them the club and the promise of first team footie and if they play well a move to a bigger team. Sacking CC is and should not be contemplated. Give the guy a chance to prove wot he has got. He got Northampton promoted (28 clean sheets in 50 or so games) on a meagre budget so why cant he do it at ER. We will see in the coming weeks if his signings (1st choice) will come and wot they will bring to the club.

It should be an exciting time for all but like always the silly season has started and the doom and gloomers have written CC and his supposed signings before they even start.

there will be investment by the club and there always has been we just need to be patient and see what happens. I for one am a big fan the way the club does business on the transfer front...ie say nothing till the player is in the bag and signed on the dotted line.

lets get behind the club and CC. Lets wait ans see guys.

[Andy74]

So what do we do then, sack another "dummy"......The Board must take the flak for appointing "dummy" after "dummy"....Do we then not give money to the "dummy" in charge, it is all very frustrating.......

I am not asking for millions to be spent, but a little more to bring in a quality type player....In the January window, just how many of CC's first choice players were brought in.....I doubt Sodje was first on his list, but after working his way through his list Sodje was probably all that was available at that time for the money available.....(I am not having a pop at Sodje, as I like him, just using him as an example). Hibs are well renowned for not breaking the bank, but is a couple of hundred thousand being spent really that much of a realistic ask?

We spend everything we take in, and more sometimes.

Where is it you are advocating the extra spending comes from? A bank loan?

How do we pay it, and the interest back?

A couple of hundred thousand gets you one player on two grand a week on a two year contract.

Are you suggesting that one player at that level over and above our budget will make any difference?

[Baldy Foghorn]

We spend everything we take in, and more sometimes.

Where is it you are advocating the extra spending comes from? A bank loan?

How do we pay it, and the interest back?

A couple of hundred thousand gets you one player on two grand a week on a two year contract.

Are you suggesting that one player at that level over and above our budget will make any difference?

So do we stay within our budget and hope the next crop of players are better than of late, and take us upwards from the abysmal finish of tenth last term.....

[Kaiser1962]

It should be noted that Killie's wage bill includes hotel staff. I don't have the latest accounts, but a few years ago there were 136 of them.

Just over a third of their income comes from the hotel. Figures I have is a staff split of 164 hotel, 20 sales/admin and 72 players/coaches.

[Andy74]

So do we stay within our budget and hope the next crop of players are better than of late, and take us upwards from the abysmal finish of tenth last term.....

Yes, that's exactly what you do.

Our budget, if that's what you think drives performace, should see us competing in the top four or five.

It's up to the manager now, with a great deal of leeway that his predecessors haven't had, to make sure the budget is spent wisely.

Our budget has been good enough to sign the likes of Stack, Brown, Murphy, Bamba, Jones, Sproule, Benji, Zemmama, Miller, Stokes, Boozy, Shiels, Murray and Riordan in recent times.

I don't get the despondency. We seem to have a manager who is rated better than the one he replaced and we've got rid of all the players that most people wanted to go. The new manager has been able to bring in seven players of his own already, add Sproule to that and he still has leeway to get a few more.

This place should be happy that whatever issues were alleged to have held us back recently with certain players attitudes or workrates should all be gone.

Let's not blame the budget yet again when it can be shown that it is one of the highest, and certainly higher than quite a number of clubs who finished well above us last year and that it can get us the likes of the players listed above.

[blackpoolhibs]

So what do we do then, sack another "dummy"......The Board must take the flak for appointing "dummy" after "dummy"....Do we then not give money to the "dummy" in charge, it is all very frustrating.......

I am not asking for millions to be spent, but a little more to bring in a quality type player....In the January window, just how many of CC's first choice players were brought in.....I doubt Sodje was first on his list, but after working his way through his list Sodje was probably all that was available at that time for the money available.....(I am not having a pop at Sodje, as I like him, just using him as an example). Hibs are well renowned for not breaking the bank, but is a couple of hundred thousand being spent really that much of a realistic ask?

You will get that wish anyway, Miller who you did not rate will be replaced, as will Riordan another you were not kean on. They were top earners apparently, and unless we dont replace them your wish will come true, albeit within our wage budget.

And as Andy says, £200k will get you 1 player on a 2 year deal, is that going to cure our horrific displays, or do we need to actually spend even more, or should i say borrow even more?

[blackpoolhibs]

So do we stay within our budget and hope the next crop of players are better than of late, and take us upwards from the abysmal finish of tenth last term.....

Now you are getting it, yes we do stay within our budget, and then get the manager to start earning his wages.

[trev the hat]

Now you are getting it, yes we do stay within our budget, and then get the manager to start earning his wages.

Couldn,t agree more :top marks

Spot on G,
He needs to cut his teeth within budget.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Now you are getting it, yes we do stay within our budget, and then get the manager to start earning his wages.

Do you want to try and be less patronising, I am not some daft wee laddie you are speaking to......

[Baldy Foghorn]

Now you are getting it, yes we do stay within our budget, and then get the manager to start earning his wages.

CC had to work with some real imposters in DR, Miller and others who seem to have known for some time they were leaving therfore not giving their all in a Hibs jersey....In my view players like DR, LM and Dickoh should have been nowhere near a first team jersey in latter part of season......

Let's hope all the players remaining and the new ones coming in, decide that they DO want to play for the jersey whilst they are here.......

[HibsMax]

One thing I've read consistently are comments about how the board has no ambition. I just don't get that. If I was a slouch at work (all the time :wink:) then that would be one way I could show a lack of ambition. It's also going to really hurt my wallet because I certainly won't be promoted (not an issue for a board member) and I may even get fired (a concern for anyone regardless of their station - not sure who fires the board members though).

The point is that it behooves the board to do as good a job as they can. The business side and the football side go hand in hand. For them to deliberately sabotage Hibs efforts is counter-intuitive. Sabotage? Yup, that's what I would call it when the men in charge are deliberately making decisions that they know hurt the club.....which leads me to believe they care more about the club than they are given credit for.

Who knows? Maybe I'm wrong? Maybe they're happy just to keep Hibs afloat enough to keep their pay cheques falling through the letterbox?

I personally don't think that ambition and wreckless spending are interchangeable.

[Andy74]

One thing I've read consistently are comments about how the board has no ambition. I just don't get that. If I was a slouch at work (all the time :wink:) then that would be one way I could show a lack of ambition. It's also going to really hurt my wallet because I certainly won't be promoted (not an issue for a board member) and I may even get fired (a concern for anyone regardless of their station - not sure who fires the board members though).

The point is that it behooves the board to do as good a job as they can. The business side and the football side go hand in hand. For them to deliberately sabotage Hibs efforts is counter-intuitive. Sabotage? Yup, that's what I would call it when the men in charge are deliberately making decisions that they know hurt the club.....which leads me to believe they care more about the club than they are given credit for.

Who knows? Maybe I'm wrong? Maybe they're happy just to keep Hibs afloat enough to keep their pay cheques falling through the letterbox?

I personally don't think that ambition and wreckless spending are interchangeable.

They have had to make some decisions about infrastructure and off field things but it is all ultimately for the good of the team on the pitch.

It's more of a long game but they want the same thing as we all do, a succesful football team.

Anyone who thinks we look after the numbers for the sake of enjoying a nice balance sheet are missing the point.

[silverhibee]

CC had to work with some real imposters in DR, Miller and others who seem to have known for some time they were leaving therfore not giving their all in a Hibs jersey....In my view players like DR, LM and Dickoh should have been nowhere near a first team jersey in latter part of season......

Let's hope all the players remaining and the new ones coming in, decide that they DO want to play for the jersey whilst they are here.......


Aye the new players that have come in really showed they wanted to play for the jersey at the end of last season right enough.
And i think DR was left out of the last few games of the season, only starting the last game against Aberdeen.

[Andy74]

Aye the new players that have come in really showed they wanted to play for the jersey at the end of last season right enough.
And i think DR was left out of the last few games of the season, only starting the last game against Aberdeen.

Miller and Dickoh weren't all that regular either by the end. Things seemed to get worse!

[Baldy Foghorn]

Aye the new players that have come in really showed they wanted to play for the jersey at the end of last season right enough.
And i think DR was left out of the last few games of the season, only starting the last game against Aberdeen.

Keep banging the DR drum if you want, he looked an unhappy individual for most of last season blaming all and sundry around him

[Baldy Foghorn]

Miller and Dickoh weren't all that regular either by the end. Things seemed to get worse!

Miller and Dickoh were fairly regular, Dickoh missed Inverness due to suspension and came off the bench at last game. Miller started 4 out of last 5.......

[Baldy Foghorn]

One thing I've read consistently are comments about how the board has no ambition. I just don't get that. If I was a slouch at work (all the time :wink:) then that would be one way I could show a lack of ambition. It's also going to really hurt my wallet because I certainly won't be promoted (not an issue for a board member) and I may even get fired (a concern for anyone regardless of their station - not sure who fires the board members though).

The point is that it behooves the board to do as good a job as they can. The business side and the football side go hand in hand. For them to deliberately sabotage Hibs efforts is counter-intuitive. Sabotage? Yup, that's what I would call it when the men in charge are deliberately making decisions that they know hurt the club.....which leads me to believe they care more about the club than they are given credit for.

Who knows? Maybe I'm wrong? Maybe they're happy just to keep Hibs afloat enough to keep their pay cheques falling through the letterbox?

I personally don't think that ambition and wreckless spending are interchangeable.

The board seem hell bent on cutting costs throughout the Club, will the present Board members also take a pay cut, I doubt it....:devil:

[silverhibee]

Keep banging the DR drum if you want, he looked an unhappy individual for most of last season blaming all and sundry around him

You are the one who keeps slating him.


You never know there may have been a reason for it, but you carry on slating everone connected at Hibs on your wee crusade. Happy hunting. :aok:

[Spike Mandela]

To see ourselves as others see us.......

http://community.caleythistleonline.com/topic/22281-hibs/

[ScottB]

The board seem hell bent on cutting costs throughout the Club, will the present Board members also take a pay cut, I doubt it....:devil:

Given that we've increased the playing budget repeatedly I'd say that's p*sh frankly.

[MyJo]

To see ourselves as others see us.......

http://community.caleythistleonline.com/topic/22281-hibs/


The likes of Miller , who was excellent, speedy, direct and a bit of heart and push, will be missed.

:Ummm:

[ScottB]

To see ourselves as others see us.......

http://community.caleythistleonline.com/topic/22281-hibs/

Based on what he's saying I'm guessing he doesn't pay much attention to Hibs!

[ScottB]

:Ummm:

Never mind Rankin and De Graafs passing ability!

To be honest, I fully expect threads next season complaining about letting Rankin go, with his abilities retconned into the second coming of Scott Brown...

[Baldy Foghorn]

You are the one who keeps slating him.


You never know there may have been a reason for it, but you carry on slating everone connected at Hibs on your wee crusade. Happy hunting. :aok:

Hardly a crusade, I want the best for Hibs, something we are not getting at present.....

[Baldy Foghorn]

Given that we've increased the playing budget repeatedly I'd say that's p*sh frankly.

Certain members of admin staff will testify differently..... So before dismissing what I say as P*sh, take it from someone who has spoken directly to some of the admin/shop staff and backroom staff

[Baldy Foghorn]

You are the one who keeps slating him.


You never know there may have been a reason for it, but you carry on slating everone connected at Hibs on your wee crusade. Happy hunting. :aok:

That's as maybe, but he should still be professional enough to perform better than he did irrespective of whether he was happy at the club or not

[Kaiser1962]

Certain members of admin staff will testify differently..... So before dismissing what I say as P*sh, take it from someone who has spoken directly to some of the admin/shop staff and backroom staff

The accounts say differently BF. They show a steady increase in the wages budget over 7 seasons. If the staff say differently then they are wrong.

Who dosent bitch about their work?

[Baldy Foghorn]

The accounts say differently BF. They show a steady increase in the wages budget over 7 seasons. If the staff say differently then they are wrong.

Who dosent bitch about their work?

Accounts to the end of last financial year yes, but I am talking about now....Couple of shop staff I know have been asked to take less money for example

[Kaiser1962]

Accounts to the end of last financial year yes, but I am talking about now....Couple of shop staff I know have been asked to take less money for example

That's possible cos there's no way we could keep that going particularly after the season we have had. IMO.

They might get their hours cut but have they been asked to take a reduction in their hourly rate? Or salary?
That would be a worry.

[PaulSmith]

Certain members of admin staff will testify differently..... So before dismissing what I say as P*sh, take it from someone who has spoken directly to some of the admin/shop staff and backroom staff

Agree, pretty sure if you wanted to include inflation there would be an overall wages drop last financial accounts as well?

It almost seems even impossible to give constructive (or any criticism) right now which is almost as bad, or worse, as getting hysterical over wanting to spend millions that we don't have.

At present there is no other way bar the Rod Petrie way of receiving and distributing the monies that make up the turnover, to think that there might not be an alternative way of managing the club in a better fashion is dangerous. I think I might be not a million miles away with RP leaving though and perhaps it's time for Scott Lynsay and Fife Hyland to start to earn their corn and live or die by their own decisions without the 'fear' of interference.

[Kaiser1962]

Agree, pretty sure if you wanted to include inflation there would be an overall wages drop last financial accounts as well?

You may well be right as a couple of the rises shown have been very small but show a rise nonetheless. Only us and St.Mirren show a year on year rise in wages paid.

Its who we pay it to thats the problem :greengrin

[Andy74]

Accounts to the end of last financial year yes, but I am talking about now....Couple of shop staff I know have been asked to take less money for example

Shop staff and the player budget are linked how?

[Kaiser1962]

It almost seems even impossible to give constructive (or any criticism) right now which is almost as bad, or worse, as getting hysterical over wanting to spend millions that we don't have.

The thing that worries me is that given the overspending at other clubs we would have to do it at a similar level to stand still. The whole things ridiculous. The Yams overspend with Vlad is about £50m and they have the brass neck to ask, nay EXPECT, the Council to use public money to support them? While we have used all our windfall income addressing our debts? Thats the crux that gets me and causes, IMO, a lot of the friction that takes place.

The secret is that the scouting staff unearth a Lionel Messi type who is prepared to work for fifty quid.

[Baldy Foghorn]

You may well be right as a couple of the rises shown have been very small but show a rise nonetheless. Only us and St.Mirren show a year on year rise in wages paid.

Its who we pay it to thats the problem :greengrin

It has been but we have certainly cleared most of the deadwood out now.....We have to make sure that the players brought in add much much more to the team.....

[PaulSmith]

The thing that worries me is that given the overspending at other clubs we would have to do it at a similar level to stand still. The whole things ridiculous. The Yams overspend with Vlad is about £50m and they have the brass neck to ask, nay EXPECT, the Council to use public money to support them? While we have used all our windfall income addressing our debts? Thats teh crux that gets me and causes, IMO, a lot of the friction that takes place.

The secret is that the scouting staff unearth a Lionel Messi type who is prepared to work for fifty quid.

I'd start by paying fees and looking at getting the very best 13, 14 and 15 yo's in the central belt to East Mains as a starter for ten. We have the reputation, the training complex bu hampered even by the thought of paying £15k for an exceptional talent from another SFL youth initiative side.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Shop staff and the player budget are linked how?

The Club is currently cutting costs. That implies to me that they are worried about losses. There is a correlation there, that if they are looking at cost cutting, then they might not increase player budget as has been done previously....All wages are shown together in club account's

[Baldy Foghorn]

Agree, pretty sure if you wanted to include inflation there would be an overall wages drop last financial accounts as well?

It almost seems even impossible to give constructive (or any criticism) right now which is almost as bad, or worse, as getting hysterical over wanting to spend millions that we don't have.

At present there is no other way bar the Rod Petrie way of receiving and distributing the monies that make up the turnover, to think that there might not be an alternative way of managing the club in a better fashion is dangerous. I think I might be not a million miles away with RP leaving though and perhaps it's time for Scott Lynsay and Fife Hyland to start to earn their corn and live or die by their own decisions without the 'fear' of interference.

Yip any constructive criticism is picked upon straight away by the usual suspects

[Kaiser1962]

I'd start by paying fees and looking at getting the very best 13, 14 and 15 yo's in the central belt to East Mains as a starter for ten. We have the reputation, the training complex bu hampered even by the thought of paying £15k for an exceptional talent from another SFL youth initiative side.

No argument from me. Makes perfect sense. They even have a chance of getting a game with us.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I'd start by paying fees and looking at getting the very best 13, 14 and 15 yo's in the central belt to East Mains as a starter for ten. We have the reputation, the training complex bu hampered even by the thought of paying £15k for an exceptional talent from another SFL youth initiative side.

Where do we get 15k from, should we be borrowing such amounts from banks:wink::devil:

[Viva_Palmeiras]

:agree: Each and every Hibs manager gets the funds to make us much better than 10th. Although when we do get 4th, thats still not good enough for some.

Fife and Scott where fair seek when we got dumped out the cup by County and they attended listening sessions within a couple of days of the debacle. They backed their manager. But he came up short.

I think we need to be careful who we follow. Matching Hearts toe-to-toe or even half way close to them is not the way to go. If you're going to follow someone dont follow a lemming.

So spend but spend wisely.

Its unfortunate the Hughes project didn't pay off better returns but the board did set out a message of intent backing signings such as Miller and Stokes alongside Deeks should have been sufficient to put many teams to the sword. All this AND pulling off the coup of East Mains and movement towards completing the stadium - I go pulled up by Scott Lindsay for suggesting like Plymouth we had to choose between a stadium and a team. Plymouth for the record went for the stadium and gambled on reaping the benefits of England winning the WC. And are on a downward spiral now. Scott argued we did both and to be fair he has a bit of a point.

What I think managers need to grasp at Hibs is if they are entrusted with such signings they have a short window of about 18 months to reap any benefits. That has been one of a key challenges when we have glimmer of potential there.

GGTTH!

[ScottB]

Accounts to the end of last financial year yes, but I am talking about now....Couple of shop staff I know have been asked to take less money for example

Oh no, not the shop staff! However will we function!

So the club is making cut backs in a recession, when people are spending less, cutting back retail costs seems pretty sensible no?

I'm interested in the playing budget, not what the girl on the till makes an hour.

[Kaiser1962]

Where do we get 15k from, should we be borrowing such amounts from banks:wink::devil:

Your being silly now BF :greengrin

[Baldy Foghorn]

Oh no, not the shop staff! However will we function!
So the club is making cut backs in a recession, when people are spending less, cutting back retail costs seems pretty sensible no?

I'm interested in the playing budget, not what the girl on the till makes an hour.

Its all relative is it not....The crux of the matter is the Club is cutting back costs, as they are experiencing losses......All wages are grouped together in the accounts...... If they are cutting back shop staff wages then this must only really be the tip of the iceberg.....

If as you say people are spending less, then the playing budget won't be very good then, as who can afford season tickets in these hard times.....

[ScottB]

Oh really smart erse....Its all relative is it not....The crux of the matter is the Club is cutting back costs, as they are experiencing losses......All wages are grouped together in the accounts...... If they are cutting back shop staff wages then this must only really be the tip of the iceberg.....

If as you say people are spending less, then the playing budget won't be very good then, as who can afford season tickets in these hard times.....

No, that's your assumption.

It could just as easily be a case of 'lets cut back on everything that isn't the squad' which would make sense as a plan. The folk in the shop aren't important in the big scheme of things after all.

[Baldy Foghorn]

No, that's your assumption.

It could just as easily be a case of 'lets cut back on everything that isn't the squad' for all you know.

I think the next years accounts will show that there are losses that have lead to these actions.... We have been losing money year on year, but player sales have lead to the bottom line figure being less severe, I don't think that this will prove to be this case in the next accounts

[HNA9]

Oh really smart ****....Its all relative is it not....The crux of the matter is the Club is cutting back costs, as they are experiencing losses......All wages are grouped together in the accounts...... If they are cutting back shop staff wages then this must only really be the tip of the iceberg.....

If as you say people are spending less, then the playing budget won't be very good then, as who can afford season tickets in these hard times.....

Any chance you can debate the point without the abuse please?

[Baldy Foghorn]

Any chance you can debate the point without the abuse please?

yes sorry

[ScottB]

I think the next years accounts will show that there are losses that have lead to these actions.... We have been losing money year on year, but player sales have lead to the bottom line figure being less severe, I don't think that this will prove to be this case in the next accounts

We likely have lost money in the last year, though the sale of Stokes and Bamba will have made a dent in that.

We will likely have a smaller squad ahead, so total expenditure may or may not drop, but even though we have made a loss, the Board could choose to absorb that cost for now, given the fairly unique situation we are in in terms of numbers of players we need to sign.

[BEEJ]

Oh no, not the shop staff! However will we function!

So the club is making cut backs in a recession, when people are spending less, cutting back retail costs seems pretty sensible no?

I'm interested in the playing budget, not what the girl on the till makes an hour.
You do remember that Stack took a wage cut to stay at ER for another season?

And those who appear to have a handle on some of the things going on at the club have suggested that Stevenson and Galbraith would have been in the same boat for their new contracts. Certainly not an increase on the table to get them to sign on for another year.

[ScottB]

You do remember that Stack took a wage cut to stay at ER for another season?

And those who appear to have a handle on some of the things going on at the club have suggested that Stevenson and Galbraith would have been in the same boat for their new contracts. Certainly not an increase on the table to get them to sign on for another year.

Would you give a guy who seems incapable of staying fit a pay rise? I'd agree with offering him less frankly. In a perfect world I'd have him on pay as you play.

Ditto the other two, what have they done to show they deserve more? I'd rather keep the money for potentially better players, and offer the ones we'd like to keep, but aren't that fussed about less or the same as they are currently on.

If all three thought they could have earned more elsewhere they'd have left. Clearly they did not, so we've saved money. Sounds good to me!

[Inch Cabbage]

You do remember that Stack took a wage cut to stay at ER for another season?

And those who appear to have a handle on some of the things going on at the club have suggested that Stevenson and Galbraith would have been in the same boat for their new contracts. Certainly not an increase on the table to get them to sign on for another year.

All three will be delighted to somehow earn new contracts at the club when all three should have been emptied for various reasons to being unreliable to being not good enough!

[Baldy Foghorn]

Would you give a guy who seems incapable of staying fit a pay rise? I'd agree with offering him less frankly. In a perfect world I'd have him on pay as you play.

Ditto the other two, what have they done to show they deserve more? I'd rather keep the money for potentially better players, and offer the ones we'd like to keep, but aren't that fussed about less or the same as they are currently on.

I agree with this but there were posters on here who wanted to keep DR, and I believe he was offered reduced terms to stay........If the reason behind offering less money to bring in potentially better players then I won't argue with that

[Inch Cabbage]

I agree with this but there were posters on here who wanted to keep DR, and I believe he was offered reduced terms to stay........If the reason behind offering less money to bring in potentially better players then I won't argue with that

It would be a lot easier to find superior players to all three of them than Derek Riordan, I can't remember the last time we replaced any player with someone superior nevermind our best striker! Il be pleasantly amazed if we bring in a natrual born goalscorer and not a huddy to play hoofball to!

[BEEJ]

Would you give a guy who seems incapable of staying fit a pay rise? I'd agree with offering him less frankly. In a perfect world I'd have him on pay as you play.

Ditto the other two, what have they done to show they deserve more? I'd rather keep the money for potentially better players, and offer the ones we'd like to keep, but aren't that fussed about less or the same as they are currently on.

If all three thought they could have earned more elsewhere they'd have left. Clearly they did not, so we've saved money. Sounds good to me!
My point was not to argue the merits or otherwise of those decisions. You either trust CC's judgment in offering these players new contracts or you don't.

The point is that you asked about the player budget and there is evidence around that in addition to a radical reduction in the size of the squad with a few high earners having left, certain experienced players staying on at ER have had their salaries cut for next season.

None of that screams at me that the player budget will be going up for season 2011/12. :wink:

[Baldy Foghorn]

My point was not to argue the merits or otherwise of those decisions. You either trust CC's judgment in offering these players new contracts or you don't.

The point is that you asked about the player budget and there is evidence around that in addition to a radical reduction in the size of the squad with a few high earners having left, certain experienced players staying on at ER have had their salaries cut for next season.

None of that screams at me that the player budget will be going up for season 2011/12. :wink:

I tried to make that point albeit in a roundabout way......

[silverhibee]

I agree with this but there were posters on here who wanted to keep DR, and I believe he was offered reduced terms to stay........If the reason behind offering less money to bring in potentially better players then I won't argue with that


And i believe he was offered no terms. :aok:

[ScottB]

It would be a lot easier to find superior players to all three of them than Derek Riordan, I can't remember the last time we replaced any player with someone superior nevermind our best striker! Il be pleasantly amazed if we bring in a natrual born goalscorer and not a huddy to play hoofball to!

Not to get into a Deeks debate, but I think we can all agree he wasn't great last season. Based on his more recent form I'm not sad to see him go. That nobody but an MLS side seems to want him suggests other clubs aren't exactly falling over themselves to get him either.


My point was not to argue the merits or otherwise of those decisions. You either trust CC's judgment in offering these players new contracts or you don't.

The point is that you asked about the player budget and there is evidence around that in addition to a radical reduction in the size of the squad with a few high earners having left, certain experienced players staying on at ER have had their salaries cut for next season.

None of that screams at me that the player budget will be going up for season 2011/12. :wink:

I see keeping Stevenson and Galbraith as them being squad players. Signing 10 odd players in one window is a big ask, so if CC see's these guys as acceptable backs ups or with promise for the future, may as well keep them.

As for our high earners, well, they hardly justified their high earner status last season did they, nor does anybody in any decent league seem to want any of them.

Time will tell, but I suspect the purpose was to maximise what resources would be available on fewer players, shipping out the expensive guys who weren't performing helps with that.

[Baldy Foghorn]

And i believe he was offered no terms. :aok:

well we are cutting back after all......:greengrin

[Inch Cabbage]

And i believe he was offered no terms. :aok:

Doesn't surprise me! Riordan is never a hoofball player in his life! Best away from the club until it sorts itself out!

[BEEJ]

As for our high earners, well, they hardly justified their high earner status last season did they, nor does anybody in any decent league seem to want any of them.

Time will tell, but I suspect the purpose was to maximise what resources would be available on fewer players, shipping out the expensive guys who weren't performing helps with that.
Once again, my point is not to review the records of those players that have recently moved on or to bemoan their departure (far from it :wink:).

It is simply that in terms of the player budget the 'indications' are that it will be no better than unchanged for season 2011/12 and may even be scaled back a little to reflect the difficult economic environment that everyone finds themselves in. If I was to make a forecast, that would be the most likely outcome.

But, of course, we won't have any figures on that until September 2012 and by then we'll have won the Scottish Cup - so nobody will care anyway. :greengrin

:flag:

[ScottB]

Once again, my point is not to review the records of those players that have recently moved on or to bemoan their departure (far from it :wink:).

It is simply that in terms of the player budget the 'indications' are that it will be no better than unchanged for season 2011/12 and may even be scaled back a little to reflect the difficult economic environment that everyone finds themselves in. If I was to make a forecast, that would be the most likely outcome.

But, of course, we won't have any figures on that until September 2012 and by then we'll have won the Scottish Cup - so nobody will care anyway. :greengrin

:flag:

Given some folk on here, they'll still find a way to moan :wink:

[Captain Trips]

IMO the board are now from the football side a failure, they have had long enough to bring stabilty to the club. Last season was not a bad season it was totally unacceptable. Unfortunatly the board are victims of their own success in what they have done right, the stadium but more so the traing facilities which are arguably 2nd to none have been in place for a good few seasons.

Granted new facilities dont bring you money but they havent brought any real improvement since traing in parks etc that I can see. The board have done well to get things off the park in order but manager appointments and the club being in bottom 6 are really not on. There is no point in having a good infrastucture and then dishing up the garbage we have seen of late. Not just Hibs but all clubs seem to be losing money and teams with a lot less resource than us are losing money yet are way above us.

At this moment in time for me they have failed bottom 6 cannot be accepted after the money spent on getting a good footing for the club. If we are losing money then they are getting paid more than enough to work out what to do about it while making sure the product on the pitch gets better.

[ELZ1875]

Baldy, what would you do if you were in charge of the club? where would you get the money? would you have to pay it back, if so where do we fund the repayments?

Would you prefer the board to cut the playing staff or the shop staff?

Try answer these questions, cause every post ive read where someone asks you a serious question you avoid it.

[blackpoolhibs]

Baldy, what would you do if you were in charge of the club? where would you get the money? would you have to pay it back, if so where do we fund the repayments?

Would you prefer the board to cut the playing staff or the shop staff?

Try answer these questions, cause every post ive read where someone asks you a serious question you avoid it.

:agree: In fact everyone with eyes and ears wanted us to shed the dross and bring in a smaller but better quality squad.

Now we are screaming from the rooftops how we seem to be cutting back, players released and no replacements being brought in.

Players like Miller and Riordan were on i'd imagine top wages at easter road, does anyone think we will keep that money and not replace them?

Am i correct in thinking its June 7th,not August 16th?:confused:

[Andy74]

:agree: In fact everyone with eyes and ears wanted us to shed the dross and bring in a smaller but better quality squad.

Now we are screaming from the rooftops how we seem to be cutting back, players released and no replacements being brought in.

Players like Miller and Riordan were on i'd imagine top wages at easter road, does anyone think we will keep that money and not replace them?

Am i correct in thinking its June 7th,not August 16th?:confused:

Aye, the old drama queens start earlier and earlier.

[Captain Trips]

:agree: In fact everyone with eyes and ears wanted us to shed the dross and bring in a smaller but better quality squad.

Now we are screaming from the rooftops how we seem to be cutting back, players released and no replacements being brought in.

Players like Miller and Riordan were on i'd imagine top wages at easter road, does anyone think we will keep that money and not replace them?

Am i correct in thinking its June 7th,not August 16th?:confused:


Indeed your dates are correct however it is June the 6th 2011 and we have just finished in the bottom 6, a good few years after selling our best and setting up a (overpriced) training facilty, we should be discussing who we should be playing in the qualifiers of Europe this far down the line not back in 10th.

As far as new blood goes yes you are right it is a bit early to worry over that, as a whole its a disgrace to be in the position the club is in compared to what clubs finished well above us. I think the concern is not for what is happening now alone but for the last few years.

[3pm]

:agree: In fact everyone with eyes and ears wanted us to shed the dross and bring in a smaller but better quality squad.

Now we are screaming from the rooftops how we seem to be cutting back, players released and no replacements being brought in.

Players like Miller and Riordan were on i'd imagine top wages at easter road, does anyone think we will keep that money and not replace them?

Am i correct in thinking its June 7th,not August 16th?:confused:

Excuse my ignorance but what's the relevance of August 16?

[marinello59]

IMO the board are now from the football side a failure, they have had long enough to bring stabilty to the club. Last season was not a bad season it was totally unacceptable. Unfortunatly the board are victims of their own success in what they have done right, the stadium but more so the traing facilities which are arguably 2nd to none have been in place for a good few seasons.
.

Hooray, a positive.:thumbsup:


Indeed your dates are correct however it is June the 6th 2011 and we have just finished in the bottom 6, a good few years after selling our best and setting up a (overpriced) training facilty, we should be discussing who we should be playing in the qualifiers of Europe this far down the line not back in 10th.


Didn't last long did it? I:rolleyes:

[Captain Trips]

Hooray, a positive.:thumbsup:



Didn't last long did it? I:rolleyes:

No it didnt, It is over the top, and totally way over the top for a club our size, something half the size would easily suffice, something smaller can suffice a hell of a lot of bigger richer clubs than ours. 100% agree it was needed but said from day 1 I thought too expensive and too big.

[Mibbes Aye]

Once again, my point is not to review the records of those players that have recently moved on or to bemoan their departure (far from it :wink:).

It is simply that in terms of the player budget the 'indications' are that it will be no better than unchanged for season 2011/12 and may even be scaled back a little to reflect the difficult economic environment that everyone finds themselves in. If I was to make a forecast, that would be the most likely outcome.

But, of course, we won't have any figures on that until September 2012 and by then we'll have won the Scottish Cup - so nobody will care anyway. :greengrin

:flag:


Would be inclined to agree - there's a much bigger picture to all this. People have less money to spend, as a result of increased unemployment, little in the way of real wage rises and increased prices just for daily living. That's not something that will affect only Hibs fans, it will affect everyone.

Over the next few years it's hard to imagine how attendances won't suffer and the consequence of that is reduced income for clubs to spend on their player budget. At the same time though, if clubs are having to downsize then the trend for player wages will need to follow.

I don't see anything wrong with our player budget decreasing, if it's the case that this is happening everywhere else too. The trick would be to see a decrease that's relatively smaller than our competitors. If we can manage that then we will be in a stronger position by default.

We should be in a relatively decent position to capitalise but I would wager our margins are still very tight.

[Captain Trips]

Would be inclined to agree - there's a much bigger picture to all this. People have less money to spend, as a result of increased unemployment, little in the way of real wage rises and increased prices just for daily living. That's not something that will affect only Hibs fans, it will affect everyone.

Over the next few years it's hard to imagine how attendances won't suffer and the consequence of that is reduced income for clubs to spend on their player budget. At the same time though, if clubs are having to downsize then the trend for player wages will need to follow.

I don't see anything wrong with our player budget decreasing, if it's the case that this is happening everywhere else too. The trick would be to see a decrease that's relatively smaller than our competitors. If we can manage that then we will be in a stronger position by default.

We should be in a relatively decent position to capitalise but I would wager our margins are still very tight.

I would have said that to be case for last 3 or 4 years over most SPL clubs yet we finished 10th, If our gates are down due to recession then so are everyones yet we have still not got a stranglehold of even the top half of the SPL. There is something fundamentaly wrong with the running of the football side at Hibs we have everything in our locker to be pushing 3/4th and we cannot even mange 6th place. Most of the teams in SPL cannot afford players anymore than us yet we have supposidly got this great infrastructure so much better than most others. IMO it has passed the point where we should be able to finish above Killie ICT etc somebody is not doing something right and needs replaced.

[blackpoolhibs]

Excuse my ignorance but what's the relevance of August 16?

No relevance other than its a couple of weeks before the window closes, and the new season will have started.

[3pm]

No relevance other than its a couple of weeks before the window closes, and the new season will have started.

:aok:

[blackpoolhibs]

I would have said that to be case for last 3 or 4 years over most SPL clubs yet we finished 10th, If our gates are down due to recession then so are everyones yet we have still not got a stranglehold of even the top half of the SPL. There is something fundamentaly wrong with the running of the football side at Hibs we have everything in our locker to be pushing 3/4th and we cannot even mange 6th place. Most of the teams in SPL cannot afford players anymore than us yet we have supposidly got this great infrastructure so much better than most others. IMO it has passed the point where we should be able to finish above Killie ICT etc somebody is not doing something right and needs replaced.

Yip there is, and its not rocket science. Manager after manager has brought players to the club who are not good enough. Spending more money is not the answer, in fact its the last thing we should be do.

Getting the right manager in is the 1st and most important thing those in charge should do first. If CC is the right man, then great.

If not, whoever we get next should be headhunted and someone with the right ability know how and contacts should be pusued until captured and installed.

Those who appoint our manager should have their coats an a very shaky peg. Unless they get that right, all their good work with the finance goes down the pan.

[marinello59]

No it didnt, It is over the top, and totally way over the top for a club our size, something half the size would easily suffice, something smaller can suffice a hell of a lot of bigger richer clubs than ours. 100% agree it was needed but said from day 1 I thought too expensive and too big.

I see. Too good for the likes of us then?

[silverhibee]

:agree: In fact everyone with eyes and ears wanted us to shed the dross and bring in a smaller but better quality squad.
Now we are screaming from the rooftops how we seem to be cutting back, players released and no replacements being brought in.

Players like Miller and Riordan were on i'd imagine top wages at easter road, does anyone think we will keep that money and not replace them?

Am i correct in thinking its June 7th,not August 16th?:confused:


Wee will only find out if this has worked when the window closes, but right now the better quality squad is not there but Hibs have got rid of most of the players who's contracts were running out this summer.

As for Miller and Riordan, just say they were taking 5k a week for wages between the two of them, me personally i dont think that amount will be given to the manager to spend on new players, i do believe the club are making cut backs and CC may only see half of that 5k.

And yes it is June 7th. :greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

I would have said that to be case for last 3 or 4 years over most SPL clubs yet we finished 10th, If our gates are down due to recession then so are everyones yet we have still not got a stranglehold of even the top half of the SPL. There is something fundamentaly wrong with the running of the football side at Hibs we have everything in our locker to be pushing 3/4th and we cannot even mange 6th place. Most of the teams in SPL cannot afford players anymore than us yet we have supposidly got this great infrastructure so much better than most others. IMO it has passed the point where we should be able to finish above Killie ICT etc somebody is not doing something right and needs replaced.

This will be a frustrating answer I'm sure but I think we need to be patient and be prepared to look at it from a more detached perspective. I think that the real effects of the recession haven't had their full impact on clubs yet but it's starting .

We also need to be wary of looking at finishing 10th one year while ignoring everything else - for the six seasons before that, we finished top six every year and half of those were either third or fourth. If things turn out the way we are talking about then we could realistically look to be not just ensuring top six finishes but also achieving fourth or better frequently or regularly. In that case a tenth-place finish would be recognised for what it was - a blip.

[Kaiser1962]

Its a bit like identifying a player we are having to identify potential and allow that potential to develop. Even ordinary managers are commanding well over a £m per season in Engerlund. Even if we agreed to pay the money its unlikely they would want to come here. The facilities and infrastructure help but unless there is a huge financial incentive why would they leave for a poorer league and smaller budget.

There are some longer serving managers in the SPL and would we have been happy with Billy Reid, Derek McInnes or Terry Butcher? Not passing comment but are these the calibre you are talking about? Or others?

All other SPL managers have been in post less than two years.

PaulSmith made a good point about basically buying up (if neccessary) all the good youth prospects, paying fees if neccessary, and concentrating ,even more than we do at the moment, on that path forward. It would take time and we would have to endure a further five or six years till the system fuly developed. The more I think about it the more I would bite the bullet and go for it that way.



Yip there is, and its not rocket science. Manager after manager has brought players to the club who are not good enough. Spending more money is not the answer, in fact its the last thing we should be do.

Getting the right manager in is the 1st and most important thing those in charge should do first. If CC is the right man, then great.

If not, whoever we get next should be headhunted and someone with the right ability know how and contacts should be pusued until captured and installed.

Those who appoint our manager should have their coats an a very shaky peg. Unless they get that right, all their good work with the finance goes down the pan.

[Andy74]

Yip there is, and its not rocket science. Manager after manager has brought players to the club who are not good enough. Spending more money is not the answer, in fact its the last thing we should be do.

Getting the right manager in is the 1st and most important thing those in charge should do first. If CC is the right man, then great.

If not, whoever we get next should be headhunted and someone with the right ability know how and contacts should be pusued until captured and installed.

Those who appoint our manager should have their coats an a very shaky peg. Unless they get that right, all their good work with the finance goes down the pan.

Agree, and if CC doesn't work out Petrie should be heading out the door with him.

[silverhibee]

Yip there is, and its not rocket science. Manager after manager has brought players to the club who are not good enough. Spending more money is not the answer, in fact its the last thing we should be do.

Getting the right manager in is the 1st and most important thing those in charge should do first. If CC is the right man, then great.

If not, whoever we get next should be headhunted and someone with the right ability know how and contacts should be pusued until captured and installed.

Those who appoint our manager should have their coats an a very shaky peg. Unless they get that right, all their good work with the finance goes down the pan.


I wouldn't trust them to get another manager in, if it doesn't work out for CC and he doesn't turn things around then no way should wee trust the people upstairs to find us a new manager, if the manager goes then so should the board.

Walter Smith hasn't totally ruled out himself becoming a manager again. :wink: :greengrin

[3pm]

I wouldn't trust them to get another manager in, if it doesn't work out for CC and he doesn't turn things around then no way should wee trust the people upstairs to find us a new manager, if the manager goes then so should the board.

Walter Smith hasn't totally ruled out himself becoming a manager again. :wink: :greengrin

Could you imagine Smith taking a team who play in green to Ibrox!!!

[Saorsa]

I see. Too good for the likes of us then?I would say so, far too much for a club our size with our income and considering the type of player we are puting in it. We have better facilities than some teams in the EPL , they fill theirs with multi million pound players and we fill ours with players like Nish & Rankin. Do you think it was worth spending £5 Million on it tae put players like that in it?

What benefits have you seen since that £5Million was spent on it? Since it's been open I've watched teams that have played like they've never met each other, looked like they dinnae ken what they're supposed tae be doing and some of them have looked so unfit you'd think they were on about 40 a day. So what goes on down there?

If it's not the quality of the facilities that's at fault it must be the quality of player/coaches using it, something is sadly wrong. We had better teams/players and fitter players when they trained on public parks. Until something improves that training centre will be nothing more than a £5 Million white elephant.

[Captain Trips]

I see. Too good for the likes of us then?

To be frank yeah, and too good for clubs with bigger finances and support than ours, something half the size and price would IMO would have been good enough for us and a hell of a lot of bigger clubs.

[Captain Trips]

This will be a frustrating answer I'm sure but I think we need to be patient and be prepared to look at it from a more detached perspective. I think that the real effects of the recession haven't had their full impact on clubs yet but it's starting .

We also need to be wary of looking at finishing 10th one year while ignoring everything else - for the six seasons before that, we finished top six every year and half of those were either third or fourth. If things turn out the way we are talking about then we could realistically look to be not just ensuring top six finishes but also achieving fourth or better frequently or regularly. In that case a tenth-place finish would be recognised for what it was - a blip.


I have had this discussion 3,5 10yrs ago and we are not anywhere near consistant, 10th maybe a blip for some but it is not a blip as we are not solidy 3/4th each year for it to be a blip it is unfortunatly the way things are and it shouldnt be.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Baldy, what would you do if you were in charge of the club? where would you get the money? would you have to pay it back, if so where do we fund the repayments?

Would you prefer the board to cut the playing staff or the shop staff?

Try answer these questions, cause every post ive read where someone asks you a serious question you avoid it.

If I were in charge I would be asking why the crowds have dropped, no wait that is down to poor performances, so I would make a marquee signing to entice season ticket holders to renew, I would offer better packages so that the stadium is full to the brim of home fans, making Easter Road a cauldron of noise, and intimidating for visiting teams.....

It may be that fans will be lost forever, but I would sure as hell give it a last push to ensure that the fans remain on side.....I would not spend silly money, but enough to get the fans excited and bring the feel good factor back to the club....

It is relative to cost cutting whether it be player budget or shop staff, the crux of the matter is the Club is cost cutting, so the deficits at present must be worrying for the Board. The money we have saved on all the players who have been released, I would happily spend again, get 1 real exciting signing in, and build a team of decent professionals.....

We need to be hard to beat, and better organised.....A winning side means fans will want to go and watch the team, unlike at present, whereby even season ticket holders where staying away towards the end of last term......

[Baldy Foghorn]

Yip there is, and its not rocket science. Manager after manager has brought players to the club who are not good enough. Spending more money is not the answer, in fact its the last thing we should be do.

Getting the right manager in is the 1st and most important thing those in charge should do first. If CC is the right man, then great.

If not, whoever we get next should be headhunted and someone with the right ability know how and contacts should be pusued until captured and installed.

Those who appoint our manager should have their coats an a very shaky peg. Unless they get that right, all their good work with the finance goes down the pan.

What if they pursue the next manager with the right ability and he does not manage to make us perform any better? Back to the drawing board? We have a habit of either not brining in the right manager, or punting them if things not going as well as imagined.......The time is now to either back CC, or head hunt the guy who will take us forward....Who that man is I do not have the foggiest........

[ELZ1875]

If I were in charge I would be asking why the crowds have dropped, no wait that is down to poor performances, so I would make a marquee signing to entice season ticket holders to renew, I would offer better packages so that the stadium is full to the brim of home fans, making Easter Road a cauldron of noise, and intimidating for visiting teams.....

It may be that fans will be lost forever, but I would sure as hell give it a last push to ensure that the fans remain on side.....I would not spend silly money, but enough to get the fans excited and bring the feel good factor back to the club....

It is relative to cost cutting whether it be player budget or shop staff, the crux of the matter is the Club is cost cutting, so the deficits at present must be worrying for the Board. The money we have saved on all the players who have been released, I would happily spend again, get 1 real exciting signing in, and build a team of decent professionals.....

We need to be hard to beat, and better organised.....A winning side means fans will want to go and watch the team, unlike at present, whereby even season ticket holders where staying away towards the end of last term......



But where does the money come from to buy this marquee player and cover his wages?

Where will the money come from to supplement the season ticket packages?

Perhaps the cost cutting off the field is a precaution?
Perhaps they are cutting costs to a minimum off the field so the money can go towards the playing staff?

Do you think that CC wants a smaller squad so he can sign better players?

What time scale are you giving the board?

Deficit worrying the board?

[dangermouse]

If I were in charge I would be asking why the crowds have dropped, no wait that is down to poor performances, so I would make a marquee signing to entice season ticket holders to renew But who and how much would you spend? Resigning Deeks was meant to put more on the gate, it never did, I would offer better packages so that the stadium is full to the brim of home fans, making Easter Road a cauldron of noise, and intimidating for visiting teams..... Never worked fro John Boyle at Motherwell why should it be any different at Hibs?

It may be that fans will be lost forever, but I would sure as hell give it a last push to ensure that the fans remain on side.....I would not spend silly money, but enough to get the fans excited and bring the feel good factor back to the club....

It is relative to cost cutting whether it be player budget or shop staff, the crux of the matter is the Club is cost cutting, so the deficits at present must be worrying for the Board. The money we have saved on all the players who have been released, I would happily spend again, get 1 real exciting signing in, and build a team of decent professionals.....

We need to be hard to beat, and better organised.....A winning side means fans will want to go and watch the team, unlike at present, whereby even season ticket holders where staying away towards the end of last term...... Can't argue with that

Just playing devils advocate BF. Would be interested in your thoughts especially the marquee signing you have in mind.

[Captain Trips]

But where does the money come from to buy this marquee player and cover his wages?

Where will the money come from to supplement the season ticket packages?

Perhaps the cost cutting off the field is a precaution?
Perhaps they are cutting costs to a minimum off the field so the money can go towards the playing staff?

Do you think that CC wants a smaller squad so he can sign better players?

What time scale are you giving the board?

I would assume he thinks the money would come from more people attending to cover both points, not a guarantee more folk would go but cannot say they wouldnt.

[ELZ1875]

Carlsberg, You cant sign a marquee player then wait for season ticket money to cover it, you need to have money first to buy him or at least most of it. where does this money come from?

As for the season tickets packages, that is a total gamble, which if it goes wrong could leave a big hole in next years transfer budget

The board made big mistakes ten years ago or so with money, i.e speculate to accumulate, not a chance they will do the same.

For everyone who wants the board to leave if they dont invest. who will run the club or who is gonna buy it?

This could be one of the most pointless threads, its not like the board have ever said they would invest and i dont see why they should.

[Captain Trips]

Carlsberg, You cant sign a marquee player then wait for season ticket money to cover it, you need to have money first to buy him or at least most of it. where does this money come from?

As for the season tickets packages, that is a total gamble, which if it goes wrong could leave a big hole in next years transfer budget

The board made big mistakes ten years ago or so with money, i.e speculate to accumulate, not a chance they will do the same.

For everyone who wants the board to leave if they dont invest. who will run the club or who is gonna buy it?

This could be one of the most pointless threads, its not like the board have ever said they would invest and i dont see why they should.

So I assume the training facility and the new stand are all 100% paid for and none of that has been placed into the existing debt?

[blackpoolhibs]

If I were in charge I would be asking why the crowds have dropped, no wait that is down to poor performances, so I would make a marquee signing to entice season ticket holders to renew, I would offer better packages so that the stadium is full to the brim of home fans, making Easter Road a cauldron of noise, and intimidating for visiting teams.....

Crowds have dropped because we are not winning enough, this marquee signing, would someone like Riordan do? Someone who guaranteed us goals like him gave us a crowd of 11k if my memory serves me right when he returned?

It may be that fans will be lost forever, but I would sure as hell give it a last push to ensure that the fans remain on side.....I would not spend silly money, but enough to get the fans excited and bring the feel good factor back to the club....

Fans wont be lost forever, they will always return if we start winning and play attractive football. You keep saying you wont spend silly money, and did mention £200k. Just what do you get for £200k? 1 player on a 2 year deal on £2k a week.

It is relative to cost cutting whether it be player budget or shop staff, the crux of the matter is the Club is cost cutting, so the deficits at present must be worrying for the Board. The money we have saved on all the players who have been released, I would happily spend again, get 1 real exciting signing in, and build a team of decent professionals.....

Are the club not going to do this, or has the guy that puts the numbers on the strips said we wont

We need to be hard to beat, and better organised.....A winning side means fans will want to go and watch the team, unlike at present, whereby even season ticket holders where staying away towards the end of last term......

Is this not what a manager is for, especially one who gets more to spend than quite a few who's teams finished above us?

[Baldy Foghorn]

Just playing devils advocate BF. Would be interested in your thoughts especially the marquee signing you have in mind.

Understand you Dangermouse, it never worked for Boyle at Motherwell....IIRC when Hibs signed Best the crowds nearly doubled, of course it is a gamble, but IMO the Club need to do something or risk losing some of the support forever....

[blackpoolhibs]

What if they pursue the next manager with the right ability and he does not manage to make us perform any better? Back to the drawing board? We have a habit of either not brining in the right manager, or punting them if things not going as well as imagined.......The time is now to either back CC, or head hunt the guy who will take us forward....Who that man is I do not have the foggiest........

I dont know the answer, but it sure as hell aint throwing even more money at it. Let whoevers in charge start to earn their corn.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Carlsberg, You cant sign a marquee player then wait for season ticket money to cover it, you need to have money first to buy him or at least most of it. where does this money come from?

As for the season tickets packages, that is a total gamble, which if it goes wrong could leave a big hole in next years transfer budget

The board made big mistakes ten years ago or so with money, i.e speculate to accumulate, not a chance they will do the same.

For everyone who wants the board to leave if they dont invest. who will run the club or who is gonna buy it?

This could be one of the most pointless threads, its not like the board have ever said they would invest and i dont see why they should.

Hardly a pointless thread as it is now on page 22....Many arguments for and against, with lots of valid points made by those on differing opinions....This is a great discussion thread, so how is it pointless?

[blackpoolhibs]

Understand you Dangermouse, it never worked for Boyle at Motherwell....IIRC when Hibs signed Best the crowds nearly doubled, of course it is a gamble, but IMO the Club need to do something or risk losing some of the support forever....

No they never, the first few weeks they did, but crowds slumped back to normal when we reverted to the usual defeat after defeat.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I dont know the answer, but it sure as hell aint throwing even more money at it. Let whoevers in charge start to earn their corn.

But what if CC can't earn his corn and weave his magic? Do we punt yet another manager, and go through yet another transition period and rebuilding job? These are of course ifs and buts, but next season is going to be a crucial one....

[Baldy Foghorn]

Is this not what a manager is for, especially one who gets more to spend than quite a few who's teams finished above us?

I am just thinking aloud BH.....Riordan did put bums on seats, but he has now said he is bored with SPL.....I really don't know the answer, or where we as a Club go to, to get to a higher plane....Maybe if I win Euromillions I will bring in a marquee signing and hope that helps........

[Dashing Bob S]

It's becoming more apparent to me that Hibs current infrastructure is too big for Scottish football. We have a decent stadium and world class training facilities in a 9th class footballing nation which has been run-down over the years by being ceded to bigots and amateurs.

We don't get enough from the limited trough to justify what we have and the OF aren't going to move over and cede more just because we're the first major club outside their ranks to get 21st century facilities.

[Baldy Foghorn]

No they never, the first few weeks they did, but crowds slumped back to normal when we reverted to the usual defeat after defeat.

SO they did then? I remember being taken along to his first couple of games, and the crowds had definitely swelled due to his signing......

[Baldy Foghorn]

It's becoming more apparent to me that Hibs current infrastructure is too big for Scottish football. We have a decent stadium and world class training facilities in a 9th class footballing nation which has been run-down over the years by being ceded to bigots and amateurs.

We don't get enough from the limited trough to justify what we have and the OF aren't going to move over and cede more just because we're the first major club outside their ranks to get 21st century facilities.

We certainly have the best facilities outside the OF bar none..... Great but when the product on the park is poor, then not so great.......

[HibsMax]

I have had this discussion 3,5 10yrs ago and we are not anywhere near consistant, 10th maybe a blip for some but it is not a blip as we are not solidy 3/4th each year for it to be a blip it is unfortunatly the way things are and it shouldnt be.
I would argue that it is a blip, at least if you look at out finishing position since 2000. Since then we have averaged 6.09 and 10th is amost 4 places below that. Here are our last 11 finishing positions:
3rd - twice
4th - twice
6th - three times
7th - once
8th - once
10th - twice

I don't know how well this will come out but here is where we finished since 2000:


1
2
3* *
4 * *
5
6 ***
7 *
8 *
9
10 * *
00000000001
01234567890

It's not the easiest "chart" to read but when I look at that I would say that the 10s (2001 and 2010) look like blips to me.

[Captain Trips]

It's becoming more apparent to me that Hibs current infrastructure is too big for Scottish football. We have a decent stadium and world class training facilities in a 9th class footballing nation which has been run-down over the years by being ceded to bigots and amateurs.

We don't get enough from the limited trough to justify what we have and the OF aren't going to move over and cede more just because we're the first major club outside their ranks to get 21st century facilities.

Great point

[ELZ1875]

Baldy why have you only really replied to my last paragraph, will you the answer the other questions?

Pointless because your avoiding answering questions that relate directly to the thread title.All youve done is write what you want, not how to make it achievable, or have i missed the post where you said that you want us to gamble on next years budget by borrowing money.

What are you gonna do if they dont invest?
What does invest mean to you?

[marinello59]

To be frank yeah, and too good for clubs with bigger finances and support than ours, something half the size and price would IMO would have been good enough for us and a hell of a lot of bigger clubs.

What a sad lack of ambition that exposes. If we ever want to get close to the Old Firm we have to give the coaches, management and players the best tools to do the job. How on earth can it be argued that we don't need the same training facilities as Celtic and Rangers for example? We play the same game in the same league in the same weather beaten country. Only in Scotland could anybody seriously make an argument for having lesser facilities.
If last season was less than satisfactory it was despite the training facility, not because of it.

[HibsMax]

The board seem hell bent on cutting costs throughout the Club, will the present Board members also take a pay cut, I doubt it....:devil:

That's not a bad question to ask actually.

[Captain Trips]

We certainly have the best facilities outside the OF bar none..... Great but when the product on the park is poor, then not so great.......

Indeed as I said off the park hibs have done well until this project, I just think there is £2,2.5M that could have been used for the debt or towards the stand instead of spending £5m roughly on New mains, we have best facilities outside OF bar none and you could argue even better but we only need good facilities not what we have now. Imo where you train can only go so far, you need good facilities but not £5m good. People are saying you cant throw money at team IMO board threw £2-£3m more than they needed to at New mains but as that is bricks and mortar it seems to be alright to do.

[blackpoolhibs]

But what if CC can't earn his corn and weave his magic? Do we punt yet another manager, and go through yet another transition period and rebuilding job? These are of course ifs and buts, but next season is going to be a crucial one....

If calderwoods another dummy, them Petrie has to go imo. Far too many bad managers appointed under his management, and someone better has to be given the job recruiting that position.


I am just thinking aloud BH.....Riordan did put bums on seats, but he has now said he is bored with SPL.....I really don't know the answer, or where we as a Club go to, to get to a higher plane....Maybe if I win Euromillions I will bring in a marquee signing and hope that helps........

I disagree, Riordan was just about the best marquee signing we could have made at the time of his return. £11k at his debut against Dundee Utd. The way to build crowds is through having a consistant team, winning regularly more than they lose as Tony Mowbray said.

A good manager will build a side, a better side than most in this league with our resources.

A bad manager will just squander all the money he's given. Calderwood has to start earning his money this season, and needs to make us all the things you said in an earlier post, harder to beat, better organised. These are basics imo, and we start with a better platform than most, ie money stadium and training centre. He needs to do better with the tools at his disposal before we start letting him splash the cash about imo.

[blackpoolhibs]

Indeed as I said off the park hibs have done well until this project, I just think there is £2,2.5M that could have been used for the debt or towards the stand instead of spending £5m roughly on New mains, we have best facilities outside OF bar none and you could argue even better but we only need good facilities not what we have now. Imo where you train can only go so far, you need good facilities but not £5m good.

What you say is irellivant imo now, the facilities are built, we cant knock them down and build them again. Its forward looking now, not back. What do we do now is the question?

[down the slope]

I would say so, far too much for a club our size with our income and considering the type of player we are puting in it. We have better facilities than some teams in the EPL , they fill theirs with multi million pound players and we fill ours with players like Nish & Rankin. Do you think it was worth spending £5 Million on it tae put players like that in it?

What benefits have you seen since that £5Million was spent on it? Since it's been open I've watched teams that have played like they've never met each other, looked like they dinnae ken what they're supposed tae be doing and some of them have looked so unfit you'd think they were on about 40 a day. So what goes on down there?

If it's not the quality of the facilities that's at fault it must be the quality of player/coaches using it, something is sadly wrong. We had better teams/players and fitter players when they trained on public parks. Until something improves that training centre will be nothing more than a £5 Million white elephant.

Ah but it's nearer Rod's hoose !, i think the quality of the football has gone down year on year since we opened the TC, maybe the players were nippier on their toes when they had to weave round the jobbies in the park ?.

[Captain Trips]

What a sad lack of ambition that exposes. If we ever want to get close to the Old Firm we have to give the coaches, management and players the best tools to do the job. How on earth can it be argued that we don't need the same training facilities as Celtic and Rangers for example? We play the same game in the same league in the same weather beaten country. Only in Scotland could anybody seriously make an argument for having lesser facilities.
If last season was less than satisfactory it was despite the training facility, not because of it.

I totally disagree with you, I think it does not expose any lack of ambition, I would have maybe gave the manger more to spend on players with money saved on smaller facility, we dont need the same facilities we need good ones. Unfortunatly wether you like it or not IMO the best tools to do a job in any league is cash, thats the way the game is no amount of football pitches at East mains will have us close to OF.

[ELZ1875]

Baldy, do you know that from the year 2000 to present that hibs have made a financial loss, despite all the big sales.
It will still be a few years before we are all thankful that we have a top class training centre and a nice new stand. The stand and training centre are there for the long term and they are pretty much paid for.

Its just unfortunate that a recession has occured, i think Rod and co were well on plan until it happened.

This is nothing more than a blip, some people are acting like its the 3rd season in a row we flirted with relegation.

[FRes Hibbie]

I'd like to see future Hibs squads with only three or four "senior" players on relatively expensive contracts, the sort of players who are about 30 years old and have played in a higher standard of league for at least 4 or so years and would ideally like to join Hibs to be a real senior member of the team. The rest of the squad would be made up of graduates from the U19s still on fairly low-paying contracts as it's their first proper contract (allowing us to pay for the senior players).

This would hopefully allow the young players to play consistent first team football, allowing them to grow into their positions around 3 or 4 respected senior players who'd provide their support, hopefully resulting in them becoming quality players whom we can sell on for good dosh.

[Captain Trips]

What you say is irellivant imo now, the facilities are built, we cant knock them down and build them again. Its forward looking now, not back. What do we do now is the question?

It is relevant it is relevant to me in this thread as a mistake made by the club which we are paying for at this time, and like everyone on here we will mention things from past that we cannot change as I am sure you do.

[ELZ1875]

[QUOTE=blackpoolhibs;2822970]]If calderwoods another dummy, them Petrie has to go imo. Far too many bad managers appointed under his management, and someone better has to be given the job recruiting that position.


List the bad managers and what made them bad please.

[blackpoolhibs]

It is relevant it is relevant to me in this thread as a mistake made by the club which we are paying for at this time, and like everyone on here we will mention things from past that we cannot change as I am sure you do.

Of course it relevant in that we need to blame someone for why we had a bad season, but when we we were flying high in 3rd, it was the best thing we'd done by a country mile.

As for now, its a very good training centre, one that should help us in the future. It does not need building again, it will help those who use it, its done we have to get over what it cost, move on. Or do we keep bitching about it?

What good does that do?

[down the slope]

Baldy, do you know that from the year 2000 to present that hibs have made a financial loss, despite all the big sales.
It will still be a few years before we are all thankful that we have a top class training centre and a nice new stand. The stand and training centre are there for the long term and they are pretty much paid for.

Its just unfortunate that a recession has occured, i think Rod and co were well on plan until it happened.

This is nothing more than a blip, some people are acting like its the 3rd season in a row we flirted with relegation.

How can it be the recessions fault that we chose bad managers ?, the board have made some wrong appointments and we are paying for it bigtime , i bet you not one of them ever paid to get in to see Hibs in their lives.

[ELZ1875]

I never said anything about bad managers, but while we are on the subject, who were the bad managers and what made them bad?

[Captain Trips]

Of course it relevant in that we need to blame someone for why we had a bad season, but when we we were flying high in 3rd, it was the best thing we'd done by a country mile.

As for now, its a very good training centre, one that should help us in the future. It does not need building again, it will help those who use it, its done we have to get over what it cost, move on. Or do we keep bitching about it?

What good does that do?

Yes we do it is a thread about the board, that for me was a major overspend and therefore it has had and will keep having an affect until the debt is paid as IMO that was £2m or £3m that could have been pumped right into it to leave us with a lot more breathing space today.

[silverhibee]

We certainly have the best facilities outside the OF bar none..... Great but when the product on the park is poor, then not so great.......


I would say Hibs have better or bigger training facilities than celtc.

[blackpoolhibs]

[QUOTE=blackpoolhibs;2822970]]If calderwoods another dummy, them Petrie has to go imo. Far too many bad managers appointed under his management, and someone better has to be given the job recruiting that position.


List the bad managers and what made them bad please.

Collins
Mixu
Hughes.

Collins bought a complete team of dross.

Mixu made us one of the worst teams to watch, and had us playing some kind of xmas tree formation, but some of the branches had fallen off.

Hughes started well, but lost it. His results from February onwards decided his future.

[blackpoolhibs]

Yes we do it is a thread about the board, that for me was a major overspend and therefore it has had and will keep having an affect until the debt is paid as IMO that was £2m or £3m that could have been pumped right into it to leave us with a lot more breathing space today.

Even though we spend big on the training centre, why is it we spend more than most, yet they still finish above us?

How much more breathing space do we need to beat these teams?

[silverhibee]

What you say is irellivant imo now, the facilities are built, we cant knock them down and build them again. Its forward looking now, not back. What do we do now is the question?

Did Hibs not also by some land at EM, if so what was it to be used for or is my mind playing tricks with me.

[ELZ1875]

[QUOTE=ELZ1875;2822985]

Collins Not a bad manager 42% win ratio and a cup, he just had an overinflated ego
Mixu
Hughes.

Collins bought a complete team of dross.

Mixu made us one of the worst teams to watch, and had us playing some kind of xmas tree formation, but some of the branches had fallen off.

Hughes started well, but lost it. His results from February onwards decided his future.

Ill give you mixu and yogi, more so yogi. Going by that every team manager we have can only sign 2 bad players before he is sacked.

[HibsMax]

Yes we do it is a thread about the board, that for me was a major overspend and therefore it has had and will keep having an affect until the debt is paid as IMO that was £2m or £3m that could have been pumped right into it to leave us with a lot more breathing space today.
Don't forget that even if we did pump that money into the squad:
1. no guarantee of better results,
2. could we have held onto them? good players are almost always temporary commodities, at least as far as Hibs are concerned. if we have some talent we have a real hard job of holding onto it.

So let's say we invested the money in players instead of the training facilities, we could have been in the exact same position as we are not BUT without the facilities. I think it was smart to build the facilities first because they will be around for a lot longer than any player. Now that we have the facilities, we can effectively forget about that sort of project for the foreseeable future, and that has to be a good thing? Less financial distractions.

[Saorsa]

What a sad lack of ambition that exposes. If we ever want to get close to the Old Firm we have to give the coaches, management and players the best tools to do the job. How on earth can it be argued that we don't need the same training facilities as Celtic and Rangers for example? We play the same game in the same league in the same weather beaten country. Only in Scotland could anybody seriously make an argument for having lesser facilities.
If last season was less than satisfactory it was despite the training facility, not because of it.You think that just because we have the same facilities as the OF we'll start competing with them?

We will only compete with with better teams when we have better quality of player and coaches. Filling a £5 Million training center with thirty bob players will not help us compete with anybody. Training can only do so much, there has tae be talent, a training centre, no matter how much it costs won't turn rubbish players in tae one's that will compete at the top end of the table.

[Stevie Reid]

What a sad lack of ambition that exposes. If we ever want to get close to the Old Firm we have to give the coaches, management and players the best tools to do the job. How on earth can it be argued that we don't need the same training facilities as Celtic and Rangers for example? We play the same game in the same league in the same weather beaten country. Only in Scotland could anybody seriously make an argument for having lesser facilities.
If last season was less than satisfactory it was despite the training facility, not because of it.

:top marks

The academy is a hugely worthwhile investment that will be there for years and cannot get injured, fail to settle, suffer a loss of form, or be sold to a rival like big money signings can.

Many teams have spent money they do not have to try and achieve succes, no one has managed to pull it off long term, but all the best teams in the world have their own academies and training centres, and the two teams who just played in the Champions League Final for the second time in 3 years are reknowned for bringing through their own brilliant youth players.

We all enjoy big signings but how sad that one of the most important things the club will ever do is now being dismissed as an indulgence because last year saw the fruition of a few years of mismanagement on the playing side. Spending more money than we have on a huge gamble is now classed as being more ambitious than trying to build a legacy for generations to come, seems pretty messed up to me.

There can be no arguing that the performances on the playing side have been too poor for too long and the negativity surrounding the club is horrendous right now. But funds available for the playing staff have been more than ample for the last few years and even when they were at their lowest, Tony Mowbray managed to get a huge feel good factor around ER with the style of football we played - of course, our youth system was pivotal.

The board are ultimately culpable with regards to the picking of the managers for the last few years, but they cannot be accused of not giving them the tools to do their job properly.

[ELZ1875]

Rod and co have done a lot more good for this club in the last 10 years than they have bad, the stadium and EM will be here long after Rod and co are.
Thankfully they can see the long term goal.

[HibsMax]

You think that just because we have the same facilities as the OF we'll start competing with them?

We will only compete with with better teams when we have better quality of player. Filling a £5 Million training center with thirty bob players will not help us compete with anybody. Training can only do so much, it won't turn rubbish players in tae one's that will compete at the top end of the table.

No arguments there but having the facilities available is surely a good thing, for the future? Lots of people are thinking about last season or even the past few seasons (although over the past few seasons we have averaged top six, so not as high as we want but also not disastrous - while we rebuild).

Let's not blame having good facilities for our decline. We can argue all day long about where we might have been if that money had been spent on players instead of bricks, mortar and Nautilus equipment but none of us have a clear idea of where we would be now if we had spent differently. Let's just hope that Hibs develop a team over the next few seasons.............a team deserving of the impressive facilities we have at our disposal.

[Captain Trips]

No arguments there but having the facilities available is surely a good thing, for the future? Lots of people are thinking about last season or even the past few seasons (although over the past few seasons we have averaged top six, so not as high as we want but also not disastrous - while we rebuild).

Let's not blame having good facilities for our decline. We can argue all day long about where we might have been if that money had been spent on players instead of bricks, mortar and Nautilus equipment but none of us have a clear idea of where we would be now if we had spent differently. Let's just hope that Hibs develop a team over the next few seasons.............a team deserving of the impressive facilities we have at our disposal.

Well we just finished 10th and are on our 4th manager in almost as many years, this is where we are now and it is a joke so there is no argument where are we are now thats for sure. My idea was less of a facility not no facility.

[Captain Trips]

Even though we spend big on the training centre, why is it we spend more than most, yet they still finish above us?

How much more breathing space do we need to beat these teams?

Well we need a bit more it seems, breathing space could mean rejecting an offer to get even more out of deal, to compliment a few other players we had of quality. If we had given ourselves a smaller training area and popped some back to debt IMO we would maybe be in better place, we produced lots of great players without a fantastic training center, it has sod all to do with how successful we will or wont be. It is the scouts and the mangers ability and funds available are what will decide our fate. 2 pitches or 20 pitches at East mains will not have any bearing on the quality as so far nothing I can see has changed since in place.

[Kaiser1962]

That's not a bad question to ask actually.

What we need to remember is that our board's wages, and this comes up on here lots, are transparent and seperated in the accounts. Most of the key personnel in senior positions at ER, and indeed in a lot of Farmer's comapanies past and present, are directors. It appears to be the way that Farmer operates.

According to published accounts directors of Hearts, Kilmarnock, Motherwell and St.Mirren directors all work for free. Aberdeen list Director's pay at £301k with one director collecting £212k and Aberdeen pay over £1m more than Hibs on staff wages. Campbell Ogilvie at Hearts was on £425k yet they do not pay any directors salaries.

Make of it what you will.

[marinello59]

You think that just because we have the same facilities as the OF we'll start competing with them?

We will only compete with with better teams when we have better quality of player and coaches. Filling a £5 Million training center with thirty bob players will not help us compete with anybody. Training can only do so much, there has tae be talent, a training centre, no matter how much it costs won't turn rubbish players in tae one's that will compete at the top end of the table.

Where did I say that? I didn't. Carry on with your campaign of negativity towards all things Hibs but please don't put words in to my mouth.

[HibsMax]

Well we just finished 10th and are on our 4th manager in almost as many years, this is where we are now and it is a joke so there is no argument where are we are now thats for sure. My idea was less of a facility not no facility.

Sure, I got that, but a line needs to be drawn in the sand somewhere. Do we pay 5 million, 2.5 million, 1 million, etc.? I don't know but I'm happy that expense is behind us now. Same goes for the stand. Some might argue that Hibs only needs a stand that can hold 8,000 based on attendances. I wouldn't make that case though.

Point is, these are in the rear-view mirror now and we managed to avoid going into administration. In my opinion the future is bright. That doesn't mean I am saying we will finish 3rd or win any cups or get into Europe next year but I honestly believe we will see the Hibs TEAM advancing over the coming years. Will the fans continue to show their patience? That's the main question because the answer dictates how much $$$$ Hibs have to spend on players (as opposed to other projects).

Yes, we did just finish 10th but that doesn't make us a joke in my eyes. It's the result of an awful season. We were 4th the year before. Teams can't rest on their laurels. You often hear the mantra, you're only as good as your last game.............funny how you don't often hear, you're only as bad as your last game. I know you disagree with the "blip" but I think last season was as low as we're going to go. I think we will bounce back next season and surprise a few folks. Feel free to save this post and throw it back in my face. :D

[HibsMax]

Well we need a bit more it seems, breathing space could mean rejecting an offer to get even more out of deal, to compliment a few other players we had of quality. If we had given ourselves a smaller training area and popped some back to debt IMO we would maybe be in better place, we produced lots of great players without a fantastic training center, it has sod all to do with how successful we will or wont be. It is the scouts and the mangers ability and funds available are what will decide our fate. 2 pitches or 20 pitches at East mains will not have any bearing on the quality as so far nothing I can see has changed since in place.

It is hard (impossible?) to argue against the relative success of the training facilities but they are there and we have the use of them for the future. Just because we haven't made the best use out of them so far doesn't mean that they are a waste of money. I don't think the success / failure of the facilities can be measured on a season-by-season basis. If the team is crap it has nothing to do with the facilities, more like how they are being used.

You said that if we spent less you think we would be in a better place. How so? We really don't know what would have happened if we spent any differently, all we can do is speculate. I am not saying that things would not have been better, I don't have those sorts of powers, I'm just saying there is no guarantee.

Regardless of how much you like / dislike the training facilities, we have them now and they're paid for (as far as I know?) so we have no real reason to even be talking about them. We can't go back in time.

EDIT : maybe we would have been even worse if we didn't invest in East Mains? Who knows. I know I don't.

[Danderhall Hibs]

What a sad lack of ambition that exposes. If we ever want to get close to the Old Firm we have to give the coaches, management and players the best tools to do the job. How on earth can it be argued that we don't need the same training facilities as Celtic and Rangers for example? We play the same game in the same league in the same weather beaten country. Only in Scotland could anybody seriously make an argument for having lesser facilities.
If last season was less than satisfactory it was despite the training facility, not because of it.

Aren't you making the case for having lesser players though? Isn't part of the tools to do the job the players?

If we couldn't afford the training centre why did we borrow money for it? Shouldn't we have lived within our means?

[marinello59]

]Aren't you making the case for having lesser players though? [/B] Isn't part of the tools to do the job the players?

If we couldn't afford the training centre why did we borrow money for it? Shouldn't we have lived within our means?

No.

[Danderhall Hibs]

No.

But no explanation. Have you just accepted you've lost the argument? :LOL:

[marinello59]

But no explanation. Have you just accepted you've lost the argument? :LOL:

No.. I have just treated yours with the contempt it deserved. :greengrin It's quite a (ridiculous) stretch to suggest that defending our training facilities means I am making the case for lesser players. But you already know that. :greengrin

[Danderhall Hibs]

No.. I have just treated yours with the contempt it deserved. :greengrin It's quite a (ridiculous) stretch to suggest that defending our training facilities means I am making the case for lesser players. But you already know that. :greengrin

Fair enough :greengrin but you must see it's a bit strange that folk are defending the club not spending money on players but think it's right that the club should overspend on bricks and mortar?

[down the slope]

No doubt someone will correct me if i'm wrong but was in not mentioned on here a while back that it costs 1 million a year to run east mains ?.

[jabis]

No doubt someone will correct me if i'm wrong but was in not mentioned on here a while back that it costs 1 million a year to run east mains ?.

Tax dodge,obviously !

next it will be reported that a large mouser was seen submareening off the Bahamas :agree:

if it's good enough for the big team............

[marinello59]

Fair enough :greengrin but you must see it's a bit strange that folk are defending the club not spending money on players but think it's right that the club should overspend on bricks and mortar?

Did we overspend though? I honestly don't know the actual figures. There have been figures bandied about on here but they seem to vary wildly.
I would argue that decent training facility is a must have these days. I would assume our manager at the time was consulted as to what was required and that is basically what we got. You and others may argue we overspent but perhaps you have more knowledge of what what we could have built for less money.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Did we overspend though? I honestly don't know the actual figures. There have been figures bandied about on here but they seem to vary wildly.
I would argue that decent training facility is a must have these days. I would assume our manager at the time was consulted as to what was required and that is basically what we got. You and others may argue we overspent but perhaps you have more knowledge of what what we could have built for less money.

There's no doubt that raining facilities are a good thing to have. I'm no expert but I'd have thought that something smaller could've been built for less money? Or we could've rented something that had already been built on a long term lease?

Surely any additional money on to the debt is an overspend - that's why we keep hearing we can only afford players that we can afford - no room for manouvere on that one for some reason...

[Kaiser1962]

Did we overspend though? I honestly don't know the actual figures. There have been figures bandied about on here but they seem to vary wildly.
I would argue that decent training facility is a must have these days. I would assume our manager at the time was consulted as to what was required and that is basically what we got. You and others may argue we overspent but perhaps you have more knowledge of what what we could have built for less money.

I would also argue that when we purchased the facility at East Mains it could actually be described as an "investment" in the true sense of the word in that should we actually sell it then it should be worth mare than we paid for it.

The same cannot be said for any player I can think of recently outside the home reared ones.

That said I would agree with other posters that if we are going to spend money we dont have then it should be spent on developing young talent.

[Kaiser1962]

There's no doubt that raining facilities are a good thing to have. I'm no expert but I'd have thought that something smaller could've been built for less money? Or we could've rented something that had already been built on a long term lease?

Surely any additional money on to the debt is an overspend - that's why we keep hearing we can only afford players that we can afford - no room for manouvere on that one for some reason...

The land that was available came as a lot. Hibs (HFC Holdings?) purchased more land than they actually required as it gave them total autonomy over the development and access to the land, which was shared initially.

As alluded to earlier it is unlikely that this will be worth less money than we paid for it in a number of years time therefore it is an "investment". Ed De Graff and Michael Hart are not. Nor, it would appear, were any of the players recently released.

[Luna_Asylum]

What we need to remember is that our board's wages, and this comes up on here lots, are transparent and seperated in the accounts. Most of the key personnel in senior positions at ER, and indeed in a lot of Farmer's comapanies past and present, are directors. It appears to be the way that Farmer operates.

According to published accounts directors of Hearts, Kilmarnock, Motherwell and St.Mirren directors all work for free. Aberdeen list Director's pay at £301k with one director collecting £212k and Aberdeen pay over £1m more than Hibs on staff wages. Campbell Ogilvie at Hearts was on £425k yet they do not pay any directors salaries.

Make of it what you will.

source please

[HFC 0-7]

I would also argue that when we purchased the facility at East Mains it could actually be described as an "investment" in the true sense of the word in that should we actually sell it then it should be worth mare than we paid for it.

The same cannot be said for any player I can think of recently outside the home reared ones.

That said I would agree with other posters that if we are going to spend money we dont have then it should be spent on developing young talent.

Stokes and Bamba?

[Kaiser1962]

It's becoming more apparent to me that Hibs current infrastructure is too big for Scottish football. We have a decent stadium and world class training facilities in a 9th class footballing nation which has been run-down over the years by being ceded to bigots and amateurs.

We don't get enough from the limited trough to justify what we have and the OF aren't going to move over and cede more just because we're the first major club outside their ranks to get 21st century facilities.

I noticed this post before Bob and think it's worthy of mention. This is a very fair point and the more I think about it the more I am in agreement.

[Kaiser1962]

Stokes and Bamba?

Thats two that might be profitable. Even then we paid a fee for both and probably a hefty signing on fee for Stokes to beet. Like Liam Miller. When you factor in wages paid and other add ons do you think we made a fortune out of them? I would think Bamba might be closer than Stokes to recovering our outlay.

The rest?

The only ones that I would regard as truly profitable would be the ones we reared ourselves.

[Kaiser1962]

source please

Hearts accounts at the time published a figure for a member of staff on £425k it was widely presumed to be Ogilvy as there was no-one else in that category. They are widely available look it up.

There are benefits to holding shares in Hearts. Not many mind.

[Luna_Asylum]

Stokes and Bamba?

+ jones murphy sproule zemamma?

[Luna_Asylum]

Hearts accounts at the time published a figure for a member of staff on £425k it was widely presumed to be Ogilvy as there was no-one else in that category. They are widely available look it up.

There are benefits to holding shares in Hearts. Not many mind.

widely presumed by you in cause it suits your argument - could it no have been a player?

[Kaiser1962]

+ jones murphy sproule zemamma?

Again given what we paid out over the course of their time at Hibs do you seriously think we made a fortune out of any those players. Again we may have made money on Murphy but Zemmama? Did you deduct the wages paid when he was hurt, insurance, medical treatment, lost for a year, lost during ramadan? Much as I loved the guy we needed to sign extra players to cover when he wasnt there.

[Luna_Asylum]

Again given what we paid out over the course of their time at Hibs do you seriously think we made a fortune out of any those players. Again we may have made money on Murphy but Zemmama? Did you deduct the wages paid when he was hurt, insurance, medical treatment, lost for a year, lost during ramadan? Much as I loved the guy we needed to sign extra players to cover when he wasnt there.

loving your posts *** laff out loud

[Kaiser1962]

widely presumed by you in cause it suits your argument - could it no have been a player?

No. Was a member off non-playing staff. Not a director and not a player. I discounted Rima as he gone by then.

[Kaiser1962]

loving your posts *** laff out loud

I dont get what you mean?

[Luna_Asylum]

I dont get what you mean?

sorry I though it was hilarious that you brought ramadan into the debate and indeed player insurance and to be honest the whole post - then i tried to say laugh out loud but i didnt know how to spell laugh so i tried to do it in short and it go that got replaced by *** then i corected it by laff out loud coz i did not at that stage know how to spell laugh and thats it but i'm still laffing

[Kaiser1962]

sorry I though it was hilarious that you brought ramadan into the debate and indeed player insurance and to be honest the whole post - then i tried to say laugh out loud but i didnt know how to spell laugh so i tried to do it in short and it go that got replaced by *** then i corected it by laff out loud coz i did not at that stage know how to spell laugh and thats it but i'm still laffing

Fair enough. The point I was making was that there are other costs to be taken into account when deciding if something or someone has been profitable or not.

[Luna_Asylum]

Fair enough. The point I was making was that there are other costs to be taken into account when deciding if something or someone has been profitable or not.

the one about vlad paying campbell ogilvie 452k was dead funny also

[HibsMax]

Fair enough :greengrin but you must see it's a bit strange that folk are defending the club not spending money on players but think it's right that the club should overspend on bricks and mortar?

There is a difference between players and infrastructure. Making the assumption that the stand and East Mains were built soundly, they will be around for YEARS. If we took a loan to buy players, we might end up still paying that loan after the players have gone. The same cannot be said about the training centre or stand.

I do understand the point you're making. I don't think people are being hypocritical when they say it's OK to spend money HERE but not THERE. With bricks and mortar you will have collateral. The same can never be said about a player who could leave for free after their contract expires. I know that football fans have little interest in collateral but money is a necessary evil in this game and such things cannot be ignored.

[Kaiser1962]

the one about vlad paying campbell ogilvie 452k was dead funny also

They paid Nade much more than that.

Lawell at Celtic is on over £750k and Bain at Rangers on £600k (as was Ogilvy before him) Even Aberdeen pay £212k. Not so long ago it was rumoured that Rod was on about £400k.

Ah I see what your doing, your taking the piss. I get it now.

Let me explain. If you buy a radio at a car booter for 50p. Put two AA batteries in it which cost a £1 from the same car booter and then sell it working for £1 you HAVE NOT MADE 50p profit.

You also have to factor in the labour charges of the two hours of your time that it took to figure out which way the batteries went and tried the various combinations of the batteries to make it work. Even if you pay yourself minimum wage you have lost money despite selling the object for more than you paid for it.

Is that quite clear now?

[Luna_Asylum]

They paid Nade much more than that.

Lawell at Celtic is on over £750k and Bain at Rangers on £600k (as was Ogilvy before him) Even Aberdeen pay £212k. Not so long ago it was rumoured that Rod was on about £400k.

Ah I see what your doing, your taking the piss. I get it now.

Let me explain. If you buy a radio at a car booter for 50p. Put two AA batteries in it which cost a £1 from the same car booter and then sell it working for £1 you HAVE NOT MADE 50p profit.

You also have to factor in the labour charges of the two hours of your time that it took to figure out which way the batteries went and tried the various combinations of the batteries to make it work. Even if you pay yourself minimum wage you have lost money despite selling the object for more than you paid for it.

Is that quite clear now?

not really cos i just paid over £400 in advance to listen to the radio over the next year

[HibbingtonHibs]

Spend more, spend less. Spend more, spend less.

25 pages of unimaginative bickering.

Cold hard fact - Teams with a MUCH smaller player budgets have outperformed Hibs on many occasions over the last good few years.

Born winners (Collins) and reasonably successful coaches (Hughes) couldn't sustain any run of consistency at Hibs. Mixu (who appeared to be utterly hopeless) has left Hibs and gone on to show that he is quite a handy manager and tactically sound.

The problem at Hibs is attitude amongst the playing staff. Teams who can't find a win, who can miraculously beat Rangers when the fancy takes them. Teams who can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Controversial, but I reckon that due to recent departures the playing staff attitude may well improve dramatically over the coming season. I think it is no surprise that our one cup success came in a year when a certain person was AWOL.

[soupy]

No doubt someone will correct me if i'm wrong but was in not mentioned on here a while back that it costs 1 million a year to run east mains ?.

Maybe, but surely that was based on figures with Scottish powers new tarriffs :)

[Lucius Apuleius]

So instead of investing so much money in the training centre, people would rather we spent less and spent the remainder on players? So who was going to spend this money? The same managers and board that other posters are saying were totally incompetent with the money they were given? Worrying.

Personal viewpoint. Obviously last season was not good. If CC and the team had continued to play they way we did just after the January window, we would have finished 7th. Would we have the same gnashing of teeth? I don't think so as that would be an average season for us, albeit disappointing. CC did, IMO, correctly for the last 5 games and tried things and players out. Never worked and I am surmising he has learned from that and disposed of what needs disposing of. I also feel that we are now living in the "now" society where success has to come now. The infrastructure is in place and will be for many years to come. Money, within our means, will now be spent on players. The benefit of this will not be seen in one or two seasons. Patience is needed. We need continuity on the mangerial front. Calderwood must be given time to build a team. You cannot come in and inherit the number of staff leaving as he did and be expected in one season to throw together an OF equalling team. Patience me lads, patience. Joyful times, they are a coming.

[stokesmessiah]

So instead of investing so much money in the training centre, people would rather we spent less and spent the remainder on players? So who was going to spend this money? The same managers and board that other posters are saying were totally incompetent with the money they were given? Worrying.

Personal viewpoint. Obviously last season was not good. If CC and the team had continued to play they way we did just after the January window, we would have finished 7th. Would we have the same gnashing of teeth? I don't think so as that would be an average season for us, albeit disappointing. CC did, IMO, correctly for the last 5 games and tried things and players out. Never worked and I am surmising he has learned from that and disposed of what needs disposing of. I also feel that we are now living in the "now" society where success has to come now. The infrastructure is in place and will be for many years to come. Money, within our means, will now be spent on players. The benefit of this will not be seen in one or two seasons. Patience is needed. We need continuity on the mangerial front. Calderwood must be given time to build a team. You cannot come in and inherit the number of staff leaving as he did and be expected in one season to throw together an OF equalling team. Patience me lads, patience. Joyful times, they are a coming.

:agree:

[Kaiser1962]

not really cos i just paid over £400 in advance to listen to the radio over the next year

I hope its a Bose and not a Tecknika.

[Stevie Reid]

There was a really good interview with Harry Redknapp on Sky last night, in which he was talking about buying and selling players and competing with the other teams vying for the top four. He was asked if not getting into the Champions League would lower his budget for next season to which he replied that it couldn't possibly, as the other teams will spend anyway and improve, meaning that Spurs would only be further behind - he needed as big a budget as possible to keep up with the rest.

Despite this however, he was very excited about the fact that new training facilities were being built for the club (obviously at some serious expense) - he wasn't bemoaning the fact that club were potentially wasting money that could have been available to him in the transfer market as he obviously believes that improving infrastructure is the way forward.

We cannot pay the same wages as bigger clubs with bigger incomes as there is no sustainable model for it. We can however emulate the training facilities and youth development of these clubs and hope to bring the through the best young players in the country. East Mains is just the same as the managers budget for players - if it is used properly, good things will come of it.

How much less of a budget would CC have for next year if we had to sign a new centre half and left back because Hanlon and Booth weren't around?

[Kaiser1962]

:agree:
Far too much sense and vision in this post Stevie. It wont do.


There was a really good interview with Harry Redknapp on Sky last night, in which he was talking about buying and selling players and competing with the other teams vying for the top four. He was asked if not getting into the Champions League would lower his budget for next season to which he replied that it couldn't possibly, as the other teams will spend anyway and improve, meaning that Spurs would only be further behind - he needed as big a budget as possible to keep up with the rest.

Despite this however, he was very excited about the fact that new training facilities were being built for the club (obviously at some serious expense) - he wasn't bemoaning the fact that club were potentially wasting money that could have been available to him in the transfer market as he obviously believes that improving infrastructure is the way forward.

We cannot pay the same wages as bigger clubs with bigger incomes as there is no sustainable model for it. We can however emulate the training facilities and youth development of these clubs and hope to bring the through the best young players in the country. East Mains is just the same as the managers budget for players - if it is used properly, good things will come of it.

How much less of a budget would CC have for next year if we had to sign a new centre half and left back because Hanlon and Booth weren't around?

[Saorsa]

There was a really good interview with Harry Redknapp on Sky last night, in which he was talking about buying and selling players and competing with the other teams vying for the top four. He was asked if not getting into the Champions League would lower his budget for next season to which he replied that it couldn't possibly, as the other teams will spend anyway and improve, meaning that Spurs would only be further behind - he needed as big a budget as possible to keep up with the rest.

Despite this however, he was very excited about the fact that new training facilities were being built for the club (obviously at some serious expense) - he wasn't bemoaning the fact that club were potentially wasting money that could have been available to him in the transfer market as he obviously believes that improving infrastructure is the way forward.

We cannot pay the same wages as bigger clubs with bigger incomes as there is no sustainable model for it. We can however emulate the training facilities and youth development of these clubs and hope to bring the through the best young players in the country. East Mains is just the same as the managers budget for players - if it is used properly, good things will come of it.

How much less of a budget would CC have for next year if we had to sign a new centre half and left back because Hanlon and Booth weren't around?Which training centre was it that produced Riordan, O'Connor, Brown, Thomson, Whittaker? They had nothing tae do with training facilities.

[dangermouse]

Understand you Dangermouse, it never worked for Boyle at Motherwell....IIRC when Hibs signed Best the crowds nearly doubled, of course it is a gamble, but IMO the Club need to do something or risk losing some of the support forever....

Signing Best was paid for by Tom Hart and the likelihood of Petrie or STF doing that is nil. So who would your marquee signing be and how would you finance him. Would he put bums on seats?

[madgoalie87]

Which training centre was it that produced Riordan, O'Connor, Brown, Thomson, Whittaker? They had nothing tae do with training facilities.

Correct bud. People seem to forget we bought these players from local boys clubs and they never actually came 'through' a system. These lads played under 18s and got a chance from there

[dangermouse]

Indeed as I said off the park hibs have done well until this project, I just think there is £2,2.5M that could have been used for the debt or towards the stand instead of spending £5m roughly on New mains, we have best facilities outside OF bar none and you could argue even better but we only need good facilities not what we have now. Imo where you train can only go so far, you need good facilities but not £5m good. People are saying you cant throw money at team IMO board threw £2-£3m more than they needed to at New mains but as that is bricks and mortar it seems to be alright to do.

Speculate to accumulate is the main point of this thread. Isn't that what the board did with East Mains? Sure we could have bought a smaller plot of land but the buildings would have to be built from scratch which would mean a smaller venue for around the same price.

Manager after manager asked the board for dedicated training facilities and now we have them. They have only been up and running for just over three years so give it a chance especially with the incumbents our last two managers have had training there.

[bingo70]

Correct bud. People seem to forget we bought these players from local boys clubs and they never actually came 'through' a system. These lads played under 18s and got a chance from there

Times are changing though, if we want to get the best young players now we're competing with other clubs that have got use of better facilities than we had before east mains.

When we were signing the likes of Brown, Thomson, Deeks etc if they were offered a chance to sign for hearts with a use of a training centre at Riccarton or Hibs looking about the public parks in the morning of the training i don't think we would have got them all.

[Stevie Reid]

Which training centre was it that produced Riordan, O'Connor, Brown, Thomson, Whittaker? They had nothing tae do with training facilities.

Correct, they were the product of natural ability allied with very good youth coaches who were able to develop them properly, and to continue to produce such talent we need to continue to attract and acquire the best young players, and the best youth coaches - East Mains will play a huge part in doing that, as we can offer the best place possible to ply your trade. Of course there are lots of very good players that haven't come through an academy and trained on public parks, just like there are lots of successful people in the world who have never had any qualifications - it doesn't mean building schools is a bad idea.

Ambition (or lack of it) is the one word on this message board that infuriates me more than anything - but what we are trying to achieve with East Mains (and to a lesser extent, completing the stadium) is truly ambitious, not a huge gamble that spening money we haven't got on big money signings would be. We know that players will nearly always go to a club that offers most money, and we cannot compete with those who pay much more. However, we also know that the wage budget that we have is competitive, and is more than most in the SPL - and certainly good enough to be competing for Europe.

With that in mind, if we are offering the same wages to a player as a rival club and they are offered a chance to go to work at East Mains every day, or train on a public park, I think most would choose us. That's another aread where our facilites can give us an edge.

[dangermouse]

Well we just finished 10th and are on our 4th manager in almost as many years, this is where we are now and it is a joke so there is no argument where are we are now thats for sure. My idea was less of a facility not no facility.

Would you not argue that two of the best performers this season have come through the academy? Booth in particular appears to have benefited immensely from it.

[blackpoolhibs]

Would you not argue that two of the best performers this season have come through the academy? Booth in particular appears to have benefited immensely from it.

:agree: You couldnt make this up. The training centre was built to ensure we have the best facilities available for the 1st team to train, and the kids to learn their trade in the best place possible to give them the best chance possible.

And it was built to attract those good kids too. Now we apparently were better off training in dog sheite?

Deary me, the bloody things built and we still spend more than most after spending all that dosh. Its all down to the manager now.

[Captain Trips]

Speculate to accumulate is the main point of this thread. Isn't that what the board did with East Mains? Sure we could have bought a smaller plot of land but the buildings would have to be built from scratch which would mean a smaller venue for around the same price.

Manager after manager asked the board for dedicated training facilities and now we have them. They have only been up and running for just over three years so give it a chance especially with the incumbents our last two managers have had training there.

My point exactly, no matter how good the facility is it is all about what is signed to train at it, your 2nd point about 2 new players yes coming through the academy is nothing to do with training facilities as such, Brown et al all came through the academy before East mains.

[JimBHibees]

:agree: You couldnt make this up. The training centre was built to ensure we have the best facilities available for the 1st team to train, and the kids to learn their trade in the best place possible to give them the best chance possible.

And it was built to attract those good kids too. Now we apparently were better off training in dog sheite?

Deary me, the bloody things built and we still spend more than most after spending all that dosh. Its all down to the manager now.

Completely spot on. We have an excellent training centre and it is somehow seen as a negative. Dear oh dear. That centre will still be there and being used by the club in a hundred years and is a massive asset to the club in being able to improve and keep fit players and teams. As you say it will attract good quality young players and also as importantly players we are looking to sign for the first team.

[Captain Trips]

:agree: You couldnt make this up. The training centre was built to ensure we have the best facilities available for the 1st team to train, and the kids to learn their trade in the best place possible to give them the best chance possible.

And it was built to attract those good kids too. Now we apparently were better off training in dog sheite?

Deary me, the bloody things built and we still spend more than most after spending all that dosh. Its all down to the manager now.


Missing the point with unfair comparisons BH, I never once stated we should not have a facilty so hopefully the better off training in sheite is aimed at somebody who has staed the entire project was not needed.

I may be cynical but I think first team chances and salary will be what brings players to ER no matter the age.

[ELZ1875]

Steve Reid, do you mean like, plan for the long term future of our club, sort of laying the foundations?

Like we might have to suffer a tighter budget for say 5 or so seasons to ensure the club can thrive for the next 20 years without having to worry about anything other than paying wages and transfer fees?

Is that what you are saying?

[blackpoolhibs]

My point exactly, no matter how good the facility is it is all about what is signed to train at it, your 2nd point about 2 new players yes coming through the academy is nothing to do with training facilities as such, Brown et al all came through the academy before East mains.

So did Reilly and Turnbull. Are you saying we should just have carried on finding parks to train in every day?

Surely the training centre is something we should reap benifits from for years, and will help attract the best of the kids that come through the youth clubs too.

[Stevie Reid]

Steve Reid, do you mean like, plan for the long term future of our club, sort of laying the foundations?

Like we might have to suffer a tighter budget for say 5 or so seasons to ensure the club can thrive for the next 20 years without having to worry about anything other than paying wages and transfer fees?

Is that what you are saying?

My thoughts and feelings are expressed clearly in my posts. There is no subtext.

[ELZ1875]

]Correct, they were the product of natural ability allied with very good youth coaches who were able to develop them properly, and to continue to produce such talent we need to continue to attract and acquire the best young players, and the best youth coaches - East Mains will play a huge part in doing that, as we can offer the best place possible to ply your trade. Of course there are lots of very good players that haven't come through an academy and trained on public parks, just like there are lots of successful people in the world who have never had any qualifications - it doesn't mean building schools is a bad idea.

Ambition (or lack of it) is the one word on this message board that infuriates me more than anything - but what we are trying to achieve with East Mains (and to a lesser extent, completing the stadium) is truly ambitious, not a huge gamble that spening money we haven't got on big money signings would be.[/B] We know that players will nearly always go to a club that offers most money, and we cannot compete with those who pay much more. However, we also know that the wage budget that we have is competitive, and is more than most in the SPL - and certainly good enough to be competing for Europe.

With that in mind, if we are offering the same wages to a player as a rival club and they are offered a chance to go to work at East Mains every day, or train on a public park, I think most would choose us. That's another aread where our facilites can give us an edge.



I know there is no hidden context my man. I just can not understand why some people refuse to see how important the training centre is/will be and the importance of providing a sound infrastructure such as the stadium.

[Captain Trips]

So did Reilly and Turnbull. Are you saying we should just have carried on finding parks to train in every day?

Surely the training centre is something we should reap benifits from for years, and will help attract the best of the kids that come through the youth clubs too.

BH again I never once stated we did not need a dedictaed facility for the exclusive use of Hibs. I do not see what benefits we will reap from having 5 pitches as a pose to 2 or 3 per say. It is and always will be about whom the manager brings into the club to train there and to a degree the facility. Could we have a facilty much smaller? I believe so.

2 pitches, 5 pitches or 100 pitches etc, will not have Rankin, Nish etc etc get any better it is down to them and those whom manage them.

Now you are right it is built and it is excellent and one of the best that has never been in doubt and of course it is a benefit as a pose to traing in perhaps public areas, but as I said something smaller would have had same effect IMO.

[Captain Trips]

I know there is no hidden context my man. I just can not understand why some people refuse to see how important the training centre is/will be and the importance of providing a sound infrastructure such as the stadium.

Who said not important? It is important to have one its about the size so please make sure that you state perhaps you dont understand why some people refuse to see how important a larger training center is as a pose to a smaller one.

[blackpoolhibs]

BH again I never once stated we did not need a dedictaed facility for the exclusive use of Hibs. I do not see what benefits we will reap from having 5 pitches as a pose to 2 or 3 per say. It is and always will be about whom the manager brings into the club to train there and to a degree the facility. Could we have a facilty much smaller? I believe so.

2 pitches, 5 pitches or 100 pitches etc, will not have Rankin, Nish etc etc get any better it is down to them and those whom manage them.

Now you are right it is built and it is excellent and one of the best that has never been in doubt and of course it is a benefit as a pose to traing in perhaps public areas, but as I said something smaller would have had same effect IMO.

I'm not so sure we dont need the extra pitches. Having those extra pitches gives them the scope to rest them and train or play games on the others while they are regrowing. You have to bear in mind its not just the 1st team that use the pitches.

[Stevie Reid]

I know there is no hidden context my man. I just can not understand why some people refuse to see how important the training centre is/will be and the importance of providing a sound infrastructure such as the stadium.

Neither can I!

Regardless of how big/small the manager's budget will be over the next few years, the academy can only be a good thing. Teams with the biggest transfer budgets in the world still invest in youth.

Even in our most extravagant period of spending in recent years - from relegation to the 2000-01 season - a lot of the transfer money was raised by Kenny Miller's sale to Rangers and Ian Murray was our man of the match in the Scottish Cup Final. Good young players have a place in every team, and we have facilities that are better than our rivals in the competition to attract the players and the coaches who can develop them.

[ELZ1875]

They might have plans for a proper youth academy.
At least we own the land, if in 5 years time Rod and co decide that Carlsberg was right and there is too much free space we can sell it.

Am i right in thinking that EM is paid for already? if so, its not like we are wasting funds on renting our training facility/stadium.