Board - Invest or leave (Chicken Licken On Standby)

[Removed]

You're reading too much into the question, mehtinks.

Have you not seen the recent announcement regarding board roles and responsibilities?

[Pete]

No, unless someone with lots of money wants to take us over.

Any volunteers?

[Leishy1995]

The man's just doing his job, if STF wants us to spend money he'd tell Rod to do it. We are a club standing on our own two feet and don't have the financial worries of many others in the SPL. This Summer I'm sure we will spend more than usual but still there is no point sending him out now, wait till his job is done.

[Captain Emerald]

Who is this 'Petrie' of whom you speak?

[matty_f]

The man's just doing his job, if STF wants us to spend money he'd tell Rod to do it. We are a club standing on our own two feet and don't have the financial worries of many others in the SPL. This Summer I'm sure we will spend more than usual but still there is no point sending him out now, wait till his job is done.

Would seriously doubt that we'll be in a position to spend more than usual. Turnover will be rank this season, season ticket sales will be down... where is this more money coming from?

If anything I'm expecting (though clearly not wanting!) cuts to be made. My only hope is that CC takes that as an opportunity to work with a smaller, better squad and make the savings that way.

[new malkyhib]

Have you not seen the recent announcement regarding board roles and responsibilities?


Aye I have, 65. Deckchairs on the Titanic spring to mind.

[hibee92]

http://pic.phyrefile.com/e/ep/epp_b/2010/03/02/Oh_look,_its_THIS_thread_again.jpg

[The Falcon]

I very much doubt it. Particularly as about 14 of your last 20 posts have been having a go at either Petrie or folk who don't turn red with rage whenever they hear his name.

Is that all? Feels like much much more. :rolleyes:

If there were positive suggestions then fair enough but it will be the usual regurgitated pash methinks. My only concern is that both Petrie and Farmer are not getting any younger.

[Barney McGrew]

I predict six pages, five deleted posts and a 'left by mutual consent'

[The Falcon]

I predict six pages, five deleted posts and a 'left by mutual consent'

We could play "Buzzword Bingo" and guess how mant posts it will take before prases like "car park" "speculate to accumulate" or Golden Generation" are mentioned.

There are many others but that would spoil the fun.

[marinello59]

I predict six pages, five deleted posts and a 'left by mutual consent'

Can I volunteer for the 'Left by Mutual Consent' role?

[Barney McGrew]

Can I volunteer for the 'Left by Mutual Consent' role?

:greengrin

It can be arranged.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I thought he had moved aside? Scott Lindsay and someone else now share his old job, don't they?

[stokesmessiah]

Sorry, I misread the question, I thought at first it was "Are you bored to death with this debate which comes up relentlessly with the folk asking the questions refusing point blank to concede any ground on them thus rendering the initial question redundant".

My bad.

I'm looking forward to reading the new and exciting points that this particular debate throws up every single time it's raised every other day.

This.

Matty i notice you make a lot of valid and good points but this one really hits the nail on the head. There seems to be a dirth of ppl on here who as soon as we lose a game (or win 8 of his 32 before you all go a little crazy) these threads start.

It beggars belief that ppl dont realise that our problems stem from constantly starting over.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

New owner AND a new board requires imo

[Kaiser1962]

This.

Matty i notice you make a lot of valid and good points but this one really hits the nail on the head. There seems to be a dirth of ppl on here who as soon as we lose a game (or win 8 of his 32 before you all go a little crazy) these threads start.

It beggars belief that ppl dont realise that our problems stem from constantly starting over.

That seems to be the nature of things now though. Someone looked at player turnover in the SPL and it was much of a muchness and all ridiculously high. You unearth a good one and you might (just might) get two seasons out of them. If he's no good then your looking to get rid of him. Same with managers and it seems to be the market these days.

[Spike Mandela]

Well that's the first full season for our beautiful new addition. Yes there were many times my tired eyes drifted from the carnage on the park to the dream like vision that is the half filled East Stand rising like a majestic peak into the sky with it's triumphant roar.

Now that it has overseen it's first glorious crusade into Europe it just seems like yesterday we had a 70 page thread singing it's praises. How it's metal heart must have pumped with pride as it looked down on our boys toiling away fresh from their pampering at the state of the art training facilities, none of the jumping into mini buses and scrambling around Edinburgh looking for a dog poo filled parks to train on a la messrs Sauzee, Latapy, Wright, Stanton and Turnbull.

Take a bow Mr Petrie and co. Job well done!:wink::devil:

[Speedway]

Family silver

Crown jewels

Lining their pockets

Nae ambition

Gutless

Spineless

Don't care

Tactically inept

Jugs Jensen

Under Mowbray

Where's Stokes money gone?

Bufoon

Yogi

Track record on appointing managers

Gash

Fud

Mince

Pish

Downward spiral

Finger of Fudge

I stood up and was counted

Never going back whilst a manager or a chairman is in charge

ST

STF

STD

Deeko

Thicot

Dickoh

Biko

Hobo

Techno

Oh-oh

****bo

Juanjo

Banjo

Mumbo

Jumbo




That should cover it.

[ScottB]

It'll need to be someone that can grow money trees unless your deluded enough to think we've got some massive pile of cash that the evil Iron Tasche refuses to spend.

[Jones28]

Family silver

Crown jewels

Lining their pockets

Nae ambition

Gutless

Spineless

Don't care

Tactically inept

Jugs Jensen

Under Mowbray

Where's Stokes money gone?

Bufoon

Yogi

Track record on appointing managers

Gash

Fud

Mince

Pish

Downward spiral

Finger of Fudge

I stood up and was counted

Never going back whilst a manager or a chairman is in charge

ST

STF

STD

Deeko

Thicot

Dickoh

Biko

Hobo

Techno

Oh-oh

****bo

Juanjo

Banjo

Mumbo

Jumbo




That should cover it.

Nail on head :agree:

[aussie_hibee]

Family silver

Crown jewels

Lining their pockets

Nae ambition

Gutless

Spineless

Don't care

Tactically inept

Jugs Jensen

Under Mowbray

Where's Stokes money gone?

Bufoon

Yogi

Track record on appointing managers

Gash

Fud

Mince

Pish

Downward spiral

Finger of Fudge

I stood up and was counted

Never going back whilst a manager or a chairman is in charge

ST

STF

STD

Deeko

Thicot

Dickoh

Biko

Hobo

Techno

Oh-oh

****bo

Juanjo

Banjo

Mumbo

Jumbo




That should cover it.

2 things....
1 - brilliant post
2 - this would make a great script for a "mallet's mallet" come back!!!

[Jones28]

This transfer will show whether or not STF is going to remain committed to Hibs in the long term. I personally think he isn't. His original aim when he bought Hibs was to stop is from going out business, which he did. Then his aims were to build a soind and solid infrastructure for the club: over the last fifteen years his money has helped to fully develop the stadium and a training centre.

Now what?

As far as any of us know all Hibs are to him now is a burden. I think he knows that to challenge for real and consistant success in Scottish Football will take real, multi-million pound investment, where is that going to come from?

Imho we are going to be seeing Hibs changing hands within the next 5 or so years. Someone will take over and put some real money in, millions of pounds a season. If it works and Hibs are more successful, finishing third and second consistantly the fans will return, meaning even more can be invested with season tickets etc.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Sorry, I misread the question, I thought at first it was "Are you bored to death with this debate which comes up relentlessly with the folk asking the questions refusing point blank to concede any ground on them thus rendering the initial question redundant".

My bad.

I'm looking forward to reading the new and exciting points that this particular debate throws up every single time it's raised every other day.

So are people who are seriously hacked off with the current situation, not allowed to voice their displeasure on here anymore?

[Speedway]

So are people who are seriously hacked off with the current situation, not allowed to voice their displeasure on here anymore?

No.

[ScottB]

This transfer will show whether or not STF is going to remain committed to Hibs in the long term. I personally think he isn't. His original aim when he bought Hibs was to stop is from going out business, which he did. Then his aims were to build a soind and solid infrastructure for the club: over the last fifteen years his money has helped to fully develop the stadium and a training centre.

Now what?

As far as any of us know all Hibs are to him now is a burden. I think he knows that to challenge for real and consistant success in Scottish Football will take real, multi-million pound investment, where is that going to come from?

Imho we are going to be seeing Hibs changing hands within the next 5 or so years. Someone will take over and put some real money in, millions of pounds a season. If it works and Hibs are more successful, finishing third and second consistantly the fans will return, meaning even more can be invested with season tickets etc.

Nowhere.

Nobody is going to buy Hibs and throw millions of pounds down the drain. There is no money to be made in Scottish football.

[Baldy Foghorn]

No.

Right we need to change the messagebord name to deliriously happy.net

[Speedway]

Right we need to change the messagebord name to deliriously happy.net

Deal.

[smurf]

Any attempt to question, or hold to account, is being clamped down and ridiculed in a way that would leave many ex Stasi proud!

The season ticket sales reveal the real truth.

[Speedway]

Any attempt to question, or hold to account, is being clamped down and ridiculed in a way that would leave many ex Stasi proud!

The season ticket sales reveal the real truth.

No they don't.

[smurf]

No they don't.

Season ticket sales certainly haven't got their mojo.

[Speedway]

Season ticket sales certainly haven't got their mojo.

Yes they have.

[smurf]

Yes they have.

Sales are down. A lot.

[Speedway]

Sales are down. A lot.

No they're not.

[down the slope]

Speedway is Rod.

[Speedway]

Speedway is Rod.

Replace the R with a G.

[down the slope]

Replace the R with a G.

Aye right !, how you can defend that lot is unbelievable.

[Speedway]

Aye right !, how you can defend that lot is unbelievable.

No it's not.

[down the slope]

When you take your seat for the first game next season you will see who is right , you will be able to have a lie doon in the empty seats beside you.

[silverhibee]

No.


:tee hee:

[Speedway]

When you take your seat for the first game next season you will see who is right , you will be able to have a lie doon in the empty seats beside you.

Bonus.

[matty_f]

So are people who are seriously hacked off with the current situation, not allowed to voice their displeasure on here anymore?

Where did anyone say that? Am I not allowed to voice my opinion that I'm seriously hacked off with the same old bollocks getting debated. There were about another three threads with the same discussion just worded slightly differently on the go at the same time, FFS.

If you want people to be able to voice their displeasure then don't have the brass neck to complain when I voice mine.


Right we need to change the messagebord name to deliriously happy.net

Good point, I've seen lots of people posting about how happy they've been this season. Not one person has pointed out that the season and the team have been pish.:rolleyes:


Any attempt to question, or hold to account, is being clamped down and ridiculed in a way that would leave many ex Stasi proud!

The season ticket sales reveal the real truth.

That whole post is complete bollocks smurf.

Here's the deal - someone makes a point and it's open for debate. If more people debate against the OP than for it then that's tough titties. Nobody's getting clamped down on or ridiculed (well, actually I suppose my post could be counted as ridiculing, but hey, I was peed off at seeing yet another regurgitated post from someone who continually makes the same point without ever backing it up with a reasoned argument, IMHO, and as I said there are plenty of other threads where the exact same point is being debated.)

If you can't accept that on a message board people are going to argue with your points (or other people's, for that matter) without resorting to calling it clamping down or whatever other bollocks you want to call it, then you maybe want to consider the worth in reading and contributing to forums.

[Mikey]

Any attempt to question, or hold to account, is being clamped down and ridiculed in a way that would leave many ex Stasi proud!



As is any attempt to sit tight and see what transpires over the summer :wink:

[ScottB]

When you take your seat for the first game next season you will see who is right , you will be able to have a lie doon in the empty seats beside you.

So pray tell, what is the solution then?

Everyones posting about wanting all this money invested in players, wanting Rod out, wanting STF to sell up, where exactly does this vast pot of cash from then?

Who in their right mind is going to turn up and pour money down the train forever and a day?


Saying you disagree with that nonsense isn't saying you think everything is rosy in the Hibs garden, it's accepting that the answer to our problem isn't some non existent billionaire Hibs fan.

[Mikey]

Everyones posting about wanting all this money invested in players, wanting Rod out, wanting STF to sell up, where exactly does this vast pot of cash from then?



It's not everyone. It's just a small number of very vocal and very persistent people.

Take a look around, the vast majority are willing to give him a chance but want to see a marked improvement next season.

[SmokieJoe]

Not this p*sh raising its ugly head again??

The transfer window hasen't opened yet . at least give the manager and the board the summer transfer window, and at least 10 games into 2011/12 before all you doomsayers start with the sack the board/manager/players/groundsmen/hibs shop attendants/turnstyle attendants/admin staff.....

Anyone else we can through in there? maybe the guy that owns the shop at the top of easter road???

FFS get a grip people

[Speedway]

Not this p*sh raising its ugly head again??

The transfer window hasen't opened yet . at least give the manager and the board the summer transfer window, and at least 10 games into 2011/12 before all you doomsayers start with the sack the board/manager/players/groundsmen/hibs shop attendants/turnstyle attendants/admin staff.....

Anyone else we can through in there? maybe the guy that owns the shop at the top of easter road???

FFS get a grip people

GTF Forthcoming signings.

[blackpoolhibs]

So are people who are seriously hacked off with the current situation, not allowed to voice their displeasure on here anymore?

Voice your displeasure by all means, its eay to say we are sheite, we are fed up we need more investment, but when doing so can you also tell us how you would go about spending more money we dont have. Also if we are to go in more debt, how much more debt should this be?

And is it really good practice to be asking for MORE investment when we are finishing behind clubs we spend 2 and 3 times more than? Should we not be asking a different question, like why is this happening, how much more should we spend than them, 4 5 6 7?

[ScottB]

It's not everyone. It's just a small number of very vocal and very persistent people.

Take a look around, the vast majority are willing to give him a chance but want to see a marked improvement next season.

Oh yeah I know, bad choice of words!

[jdships]

Not this p*sh raising its ugly head again??

The transfer window hasen't opened yet . at least give the manager and the board the summer transfer window, and at least 10 games into 2011/12 before all you doomsayers start with the sack the board/manager/players/groundsmen/hibs shop attendants/turnstyle attendants/admin staff.....

Anyone else we can through in there? maybe the guy that owns the shop at the top of easter road???

FFS get a grip people

:thumbsup:
Have just posted a similar answer on another thread .
For goodness sake let's give CC a chance to prove himself with his own squad
We've ratted most of the players now it's the turn of the admin staff - that's life I suppose :greengrin

:flag:

[Baldy Foghorn]

Voice your displeasure by all means, its eay to say we are sheite, we are fed up we need more investment, but when doing so can you also tell us how you would go about spending more money we dont have. Also if we are to go in more debt, how much more debt should this be?

And is it really good practice to be asking for MORE investment when we are finishing behind clubs we spend 2 and 3 times more than? Should we not be asking a different question, like why is this happening, how much more should we spend than them, 4 5 6 7?

Nobody is asking for the club to go millions into debt....We have everything in place, time to start putting a product on the park that is watchable....

Time to start getting a decent couple of signings, time to start paying better wages to compete with other clubs, time to actually building a decent team so we can be challenging for a European place, rather than finishing in the bottom six....

[ScottB]

Nobody is asking for the club to go millions into debt....We have everything in place, time to start putting a product on the park that is watchable....

Time to start getting a decent couple of signings, time to start paying better wages to compete with other clubs, time to actually building a decent team so we can be challenging for a European place, rather than finishing in the bottom six....

Point is we already pay more in wages than anyone other than the Old Firm and Hearts and are running at a loss.

Where does the cash from to pay more and why is it any more likely to produce a squad better than our rivals who are putting out good teams at much less cost and have been for years on end now.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Where did anyone say that? Am I not allowed to voice my opinion that I'm seriously hacked off with the same old bollocks getting debated. There were about another three threads with the same discussion just worded slightly differently on the go at the same time, FFS.

It is a forum to debate all things Hibernian surely whether worded differently or not? As I have been told many times before if you are not happy at threads, don't read or post on them?

If you want people to be able to voice their displeasure then don't have the brass neck to complain when I voice mine.

Hardly?

Good point, I've seen lots of people posting about how happy they've been this season. Not one person has pointed out that the season and the team have been pish.:rolleyes:

Dear oh dear


There are going to be lots of concerned fans, just like there are lots happy to wait and see what transpires in the summer. Happy to debate

[Baldy Foghorn]

Point is we already pay more in wages than anyone other than the Old Firm and Hearts and are running at a loss.


Where does the cash from to pay more and why is it any more likely to produce a squad better than our rivals who are putting out good teams at much less cost and have been for years on end now.

Do we??

[down the slope]

Point is we already pay more in wages than anyone other than the Old Firm and Hearts and are running at a loss.

Where does the cash from to pay more and why is it any more likely to produce a squad better than our rivals who are putting out good teams at much less cost and have been for years on end now.

I think you are shooting yourself in the foot with this reply, so you admit other clubs are doing more with less ?.

[Mikey]

so you admit other clubs are doing more with less ?.

That's pretty obvious, isn't it.

[ScottB]

I think you are shooting yourself in the foot with this reply, so you admit other clubs are doing more with less ?.

That's pretty clear to see isn't it?

For years now, and umpteen managers we have missed out on the sort of signings that some folk round here see as beneath us, while our rivals have cheaply built squads that out compete us.


My point is that throwing more money at the problem is no guarantee of anything. I believe we may well need a root and branch review of the back end at the club; why do our Scouts miss these guys? Why do perfectly good players sign for us and turn into huddies? What exactly are our coaches doing that makes us stupidly unfit when we have by far the best facilities outwith the Old Firm, possibly even just as good as?

[matty_f]

There are going to be lots of concerned fans, just like there are lots happy to wait and see what transpires in the summer. Happy to debate

Me too.:agree:

[Kaiser1962]

There are going to be lots of concerned fans, just like there are lots happy to wait and see what transpires in the summer. Happy to debate

As am I.

It would appear Hearts overspent this season by £7.9m, and were still 30 points behind the leaders, and for that they got 3rd place. Would that be a figure of indebtedness you would be happy with to secure 3rd?

[blackpoolhibs]

Nobody is asking for the club to go millions into debt....We have everything in place, time to start putting a product on the park that is watchable....

Time to start getting a decent couple of signings, time to start paying better wages to compete with other clubs, time to actually building a decent team so we can be challenging for a European place, rather than finishing in the bottom six....

Well lets start debating with where is the moneys coming from, and why are clubs who spend much less than we do achieving better results?

[3pm]

Well lets start debating with where is the moneys coming from, and why are clubs who spend much less than we do achieving better results?

Wonga.com deal with big clubs.

I agree with Steven, I'd like to see a bit more ambition but you have to be sensible at the same time. I'd love to know how much we've wasted on compensation and pay offs over the last 3 years, that might have funded a new player or 2!

[Baldy Foghorn]

Well lets start debating with where is the moneys coming from, and why are clubs who spend much less than we do achieving better results?

Right what about borrowing say 500,000 as a start, that is manageable these days and not going to turn is into our neighbours with their level of debt....

Maybe the teams below us have better training methods, or are actually motivated by their manager and coaching staff?

[Baldy Foghorn]

Me too.:agree:

Actually that was a lie Matty. I am never happy and Mr Negative is my new handle:wink:

[Mikey]

Right what about borrowing say 500,000 as a start.......

500k? Or how's about around 1300 extra people buying an adult season ticket :wink:

[3pm]

Actually that was a lie Matty. I am never happy and Mr Negative is my new handle:wink:

I think the proposed cap was the low point! :greengrin

[Baldy Foghorn]

500k? Or how's about around 1300 extra people buying an adult season ticket :wink:

They might well do if they see some decent signings being made?

[Mikey]

They might well do if they see some decent signings being made?

Chicken.

Egg.

:na na:

[Baldy Foghorn]

I think the proposed cap was the low point! :greengrin

Exactly, dont think it would match my outfits:wink:

[Baldy Foghorn]

Chicken.

Egg.

:na na:

NO its catch 22:wink:

[Lmc2105]

They might well do if they see some decent signings being made?

Spot on Mr B, :agree:

If we were to make a few singing's and showed the club has ambition by splashing a bit dosh on 2 or 3 Quality players

the supporters will come back

[Mikey]

Spot on Mr B, :agree:

If we were to make a few singing's and showed the club has ambition by splashing a bit dosh on 2 or 3 Quality players

the supporters will come back

Will they? Can you absolutely guarantee that?

Because if the club spends the money and the supporters don't return............

[Lmc2105]

Will they? Can you absolutely guarantee that?

Because if the club spends the money and the supporters don't return............

Think all the supporters want to see mikey is a bit of ambition in the transfer market, could you blame the supporters for not coming back after spending there hard earned cash watching what we have? ... Few decent players a think they would

[blackpoolhibs]

Right what about borrowing say 500,000 as a start, that is manageable these days and not going to turn is into our neighbours with their level of debt....

Maybe the teams below us have better training methods, or are actually motivated by their manager and coaching staff?

So you would get us in more debt, then give that money to someone who does not seem to be able to train this lot better or even motivate them? PS i'm not worried about the teams below us. :wink:

[matty_f]

Right what about borrowing say 500,000 as a start, that is manageable these days and not going to turn is into our neighbours with their level of debt....

Maybe the teams below us have better training methods, or are actually motivated by their manager and coaching staff?

£500k wouldn't get us much, and at the same time I don't think banks will be rushing to give us half a mill on tic given that we only just covered our own costs last year and the year previously. We could, I suppose, get STF to go guarantor on the debt, but that would go against everything he's put in place since coming in regarding spending what we bring in so that is sustainable.


Think all the supporters want to see mikey is a bit of ambition in the transfer market, could you blame the supporters for not coming back after spending there hard earned cash watching what we have? ... Few decent players a think they would

We weren't exactly filling the stadium when we brought in Stokes, Miller, Riordan and Murray so I don't think that you can make that statement with complete confidence.

If I was looking at it from the board's point of view, taking a punt on a couple of players is a big gamble. Imagine if, for example, Duffy was a half a million pound signing, and the day before the season starts he gets injured and goes on to have a limited impact on the team. We don't get that money back, it's gone, spent and we have nothing to show for it.

Is it worth the risk? We'd still have to repay that money at some point, but it's not coming from the sell-on of the player we've brought in because he's just missed a season through injury. So we need to sell someone else, or a couple of players.

The safe, boring, but probably correct way to do it, is to take the money you know we'll have (i.e. season tickets) and spend that on the best you can afford.

[smurf]

As is any attempt to sit tight and see what transpires over the summer :wink:

We've no real option but to! However, there's real anger and fear within the support right now. Understandably I would suggest?

The more you look at the final SPL table the more depressing it becomes.... Horrific.

[Kaiser1962]

Think all the supporters want to see mikey is a bit of ambition in the transfer market, could you blame the supporters for not coming back after spending there hard earned cash watching what we have? ... Few decent players a think they would

But we did that 10 years ago with high-ish earners like Sauzee, Zitelli, Luna, Libra. Not to mention highly paid domestic talent and like Paul Fenwick and ..em..Tam McManus. :rolleyes:

McLeish said at the time that people kept telling him the supporters are out there and, he asked, where were they. He even wanted both ends full of Hibs fans and the visitors stuck on the end of what would now be the West. The club spent but they didnt come.

[joebakerforever]

One plus point for next season is that now having no further desirable players to flog off after conning us to buy STs, Rod will have to make do with just trimming the Playing budget back further and let CC take the rap if things continue as the are.

If Petrie gets his wish for a 10 team SPL in 2012/13, and we emulate our 2010/11 performance next season, no doubt the resulting relegation would be viewed as prudent fiscal business by some on here.

Well as a customer I wish realistic value for my expensive ST, and if if there is no improvement in 2011/12 that will be the last contribution I will be making to Petrie's Pension Fund.

[The_Sauz]

Looking back to the start of last season, we went 12 unbeaten and were 2nd in the league, yet we never had gates over 13,000 except against the Yams & OF.
If you go back even further, the best crowds we have had at ER was when the GG were on the go with TM...Christ we were even filling half the away stand:agree:

[smurf]

But we did that 10 years ago with high-ish earners like Sauzee, Zitelli, Luna, Libra. Not to mention highly paid domestic talent and like Paul Fenwick and ..em..Tam McManus. :rolleyes:

McLeish said at the time that people kept telling him the supporters are out there and, he asked, where were they. He even wanted both ends full of Hibs fans and the visitors stuck on the end of what would now be the West. The club spent but they didnt come.

I know where you are coming from but would slightly disagree.

Back when GJP was our manager we were nowhere near 10,000 season ticket holders. We got there and smashed it...

Anyone thinking we are going to have 20,000 at ER is deluded but it wasn't that long ago we were averaging 14,000+.

We can get them back but we need a fairly well remunerated board to put a plan into action to do so.

[weecounty hibby]

It will take more than one flash in the pan year to get the fans back now. We need to be consistent over a 3/4 year period. We have all seen the seasons where we do well, qualify for Europe and then hit rock bottom again. The plan must be to be consistent and to increase the attendances say 500 1st year, 800 2nd year, 1200 3rd and so on. If we do that it is surely better than attracting new fans one year and then losing the same if not more the season after.

I honestly think that no club outside the OF can ever these days grow their attendances by the levels some are talking about on here. There has been too much OF domination and real underachievemnt by everyone else that Hibs, Aberdeen, Utd, Well, and even them up the road are probably just about maxed out on attendances at the moment. Couple that with what is, if we are being honest, an overpriced and sub standard product on show means that any kids who aren't brainwashed by parents tend to migrate to the OF which in turn means less future punters for everyone else.

[Brizo]

Havent waded through last 12 pages but the Board are at a crossroads here. A ST fanbase which built up with the opening of the FF Stand and a whole new kids and family audience and which then increased through the 00s has been inching downwards since the end of the Mowbray era. It took a long time to build up that ST fanbase but will take far less time for it to to get down to a hardcore 5000 to 6000.

Its catch 22 time for the Board , speculate to accumulate with a signing that makes people want to renew or watch ST sales plummet.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Havent waded through last 12 pages but the Board are at a crossroads here. A ST fanbase which built up with the opening of the FF Stand and a whole new kids and family audience and which then increased through the 00s has been inching downwards since the end of the Mowbray era. It took a long time to build up that ST fanbase but will take far less time for it to to get down to a hardcore 5000 to 6000.

Its catch 22 time for the Board , speculate to accumulate with a signing that makes people want to renew or watch ST sales plummet.

See post 1 of 12 page thread:greengrin

[cad]

Family silver

Crown jewels

Lining their pockets

Nae ambition

Gutless

Spineless

Don't care

Tactically inept

Jugs Jensen

Under Mowbray

Where's Stokes money gone?

Bufoon

Yogi

Track record on appointing managers

Gash

Fud

Mince

Pish

Downward spiral

Finger of Fudge

I stood up and was counted

Never going back whilst a manager or a chairman is in charge

ST

STF

STD

Deeko

Thicot

Dickoh

Biko

Hobo

Techno

Oh-oh

****bo

Juanjo

Banjo

Mumbo

Jumbo




That should cover it.





Exactly , dont think you missed a thing :top marks:aok:

[Kaiser1962]

Exactly , dont think you missed a thing :top marks:aok:

Didnt see car park mentioned :na na:

[Mon the Hibs]

After that disasterous season i now know that there needs to be money spent by Petrie or we will face another season battling to get into the top 6.
In past seasons we have had at least 3-4 players who could make an impact or score goals but now i can only see Sproule who could make a big impact(and we dont even know if Sproule will come back to be the same player).This is the time for money to be spent as us the fans have sat threw too many seasons seeing our best players leave and nobody anywhere near the standard of player we lost coming in. Now is the time we need big signings Mr Petrie:pray::pray:

[ancient hibee]

Kevin Kyle would be handy to get on the end of Sproule's crosses.

[Mon the Hibs]

I just hope that Sproule can still cross and that he will still be the fastest player in the SPL

[blackpoolhibs]

After that disasterous season i now know that there needs to be money spent by Petrie or we will face another season battling to get into the top 6.
In past seasons we have had at least 3-4 players who could make an impact or score goals but now i can only see Sproule who could make a big impact(and we dont even know if Sproule will come back to be the same player).This is the time for money to be spent as us the fans have sat threw too many seasons seeing our best players leave and nobody anywhere near the standard of player we lost coming in. Now is the time we need big signings Mr Petrie:pray::pray:

I agree, we dont spend all we can afford at the moment. I think we should ask petrie where he's hiding this money.

[ScottB]

After that disasterous season i now know that there needs to be money spent by Petrie or we will face another season battling to get into the top 6.
In past seasons we have had at least 3-4 players who could make an impact or score goals but now i can only see Sproule who could make a big impact(and we dont even know if Sproule will come back to be the same player).This is the time for money to be spent as us the fans have sat threw too many seasons seeing our best players leave and nobody anywhere near the standard of player we lost coming in. Now is the time we need big signings Mr Petrie:pray::pray:

Care to explain where this money will come from, given that we run at a loss without those player sales that you mention and have probably lost a fortune this season?

Let's be realistic here. If we sell a Steven Fletcher or a Scott Brown, we are never going to be able to bring in someone as good, we have to take punts on young players or damaged goods.

Not that I disagree that we need to get some good players in pronto. But this idea that there is some big pile of money Petrie has hoarded up under his desk from all his evil penny pinching is getting tired.

[blackpoolhibs]

Care to explain where this money will come from, given that we run at a loss without those player sales that you mention and have probably lost a fortune this season?

Let's be realistic here. If we sell a Steven Fletcher or a Scott Brown, we are never going to be able to bring in someone as good, we have to take punts on young players or damaged goods.

Not that I disagree that we need to get some good players in pronto. But this idea that there is some big pile of money Petrie has hoarded up under his desk from all his evil penny pinching is getting tired.

Aye all thats true, but we just have to spend big money soon, or some folk will hyper ventilate or even just explode.

[Mon the Hibs]

Care to explain where this money will come from, given that we run at a loss without those player sales that you mention and have probably lost a fortune this season?

Let's be realistic here. If we sell a Steven Fletcher or a Scott Brown, we are never going to be able to bring in someone as good, we have to take punts on young players or damaged goods.

Not that I disagree that we need to get some good players in pronto. But this idea that there is some big pile of money Petrie has hoarded up under his desk from all his evil penny pinching is getting tired.
We sold the likes of Scott Brown and Steven Fletcher years ago now making about 5million from them both. Where did that money go?
Fair enough saying that we have lost a fortune this season but then why wasnt it spent last season or the season before. Dont tell me that all that money is gone and that Petrie hasnt got any money to spend on better players.

[marinello59]

We sold the likes of Scott Brown and Steven Fletcher years ago now making about 5million from them both. Where did that money go?
Fair enough saying that we have lost a fortune this season but then why wasnt it spent last season or the season before. Dont tell me that all that money is gone and that Petrie hasnt got any money to spend on better players.

It's under Petrie's bed. All of it it. :agree:

[darwenhibby]

Aye all thats true, but we just have to spend big money soon, or some folk will hyper ventilate or even just explode.

Eat anymore of those pies and you wont need the Hibs to help you explode:wink:

[blackpoolhibs]

We sold the likes of Scott Brown and Steven Fletcher years ago now making about 5million from them both. Where did that money go?Fair enough saying that we have lost a fortune this season but then why wasnt it spent last season or the season before. Dont tell me that all that money is gone and that Petrie hasnt got any money to spend on better players.

:faf::faf:

[ScottB]

We sold the likes of Scott Brown and Steven Fletcher years ago now making about 5million from them both. Where did that money go?
Fair enough saying that we have lost a fortune this season but then why wasnt it spent last season or the season before. Dont tell me that all that money is gone and that Petrie hasnt got any money to spend on better players.

Debt payments, training ground, East Stand, the 30 odd players plus signed by Mixu, Hughes and CC together?

Look at the accounts, every year we have made any profit has been player sales topping up our income, take that out and we are losing money. We already spend a lot on wages compared to any SPL team that isn't from Glasgow or following the Mad Russian school of economic theory.

There is no pile of cash, it's been spent.

[blackpoolhibs]

Eat anymore of those pies and you wont need the Hibs to help you explode:wink:

:greengrin

[Beefster]

Care to explain where this money will come from, given that we run at a loss without those player sales that you mention and have probably lost a fortune this season?

Let's be realistic here. If we sell a Steven Fletcher or a Scott Brown, we are never going to be able to bring in someone as good, we have to take punts on young players or damaged goods.

Not that I disagree that we need to get some good players in pronto. But this idea that there is some big pile of money Petrie has hoarded up under his desk from all his evil penny pinching is getting tired.

If the Board were more proactive/innovative in attracting support there would be much more room for manoeuvre. They need to think beyond all this 'Play Your Part' or 'Stand Up and Be Counted' regurgitated pish every single season.

[smurf]

Care to explain where this money will come from, given that we run at a loss without those player sales that you mention and have probably lost a fortune this season?

Let's be realistic here. If we sell a Steven Fletcher or a Scott Brown, we are never going to be able to bring in someone as good, we have to take punts on young players or damaged goods.

Not that I disagree that we need to get some good players in pronto. But this idea that there is some big pile of money Petrie has hoarded up under his desk from all his evil penny pinching is getting tired.

The money comes from ending this nonsense of quantity over quality.

This season we used 37 players.

Get a smaller and leaner squad of some quality.

10x 4K basic.
5 x 3K basic.
5 x 2K basic.
10 youngsters in the squad on £500.

3.6 Million. What's our current wage bill?:greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

If the Board were more proactive/innovative in attracting support there would be much more room for manoeuvre. They need to think beyond all this 'Play Your Part' or 'Stand Up and Be Counted' regurgitated pish every single season.

I'd like, in fact we'd all like to see more fans at easter road. What can they do to attract more fans apart from spending money we dont have? We have spent on players before, i remember reading if we brought Riordan back it would add thousands to the gate, i didnt?

[blackpoolhibs]

The money comes from ending this nonsense of quantity over quality.

This season we used 37 players.

Get a smaller and leaner squad of some quality.

10x 4K basic.
5 x 3K basic.
5 x 2K basic.
10 youngsters in the squad on £500.

3.6 Million. What's our current wage bill?:greengrin

Ah Yogi's vision. :devil:

[smurf]

Ah Yogi's vision. :devil:

Aye real fitba people knew what was going on...:taxi

[marinello59]

If the Board were more proactive/innovative in attracting support there would be much more room for manoeuvre. They need to think beyond all this 'Play Your Part' or 'Stand Up and Be Counted' regurgitated pish every single season.

What do you suggest they do then?

[darwenhibby]

There is no money to be spent.

All we are doing is giving away good money to stop the club going into an even deeper financial mess.

Just because we are not in the same state as other SPL clubs it does not mean we can go about offering better wages we cannot sustain, because we dont get enough supporters through the gate.

It is time for people to realise that there is no over night solution.

We can only stand still at best and perhaps grow a little in a better financial climate.

[Beefster]

I'd like, in fact we'd all like to see more fans at easter road. What can they do to attract more fans apart from spending money we dont have? We have spent on players before, i remember reading if we brought Riordan back it would add thousands to the gate, i didnt?

I'm not talking about 'speculating to accumulate', although a wee bit wouldn't go amiss or, as smurf mentioned, being much more focussed in their recruitment of players (e.g. not wasting a wage on players like Stevenson).

I'm talking about marketing.

[CropleyWasGod]

We sold the likes of Scott Brown and Steven Fletcher years ago now making about 5million from them both. Where did that money go?
Fair enough saying that we have lost a fortune this season but then why wasnt it spent last season or the season before. Dont tell me that all that money is gone and that Petrie hasnt got any money to spend on better players.

We gave it to the big team. They needed it more than us.

[Baldy Foghorn]

How much wages are the club saving given the number of players released and the departure of Derek Adams?

I hope this goes back in to the budget for playing staff.....

[Beefster]

What do you suggest they do then?

This is similar to the thing that folk get asked when they talk about the club buying new players or getting a new manager. If it was my job and I had the force of a company behind me, I (or my team) would have tons of ideas. However, I don't work in marketing, run a football club or have any research/surveys so I have no specific ideas. That's why we pay £500,000 a year for the Board/Exec team.

What they should be aiming to do though is to expand the customer base beyond what can be managed by constantly tapping those who already follow the club. Whether they target families where the parents have no real interest in football, particular communities, areas outside Edinburgh and whether it involves non-football entertainment, cuddly toys, different catering, mascots, dancing midgets or whatever - I don't care.

You're not genuinely suggesting that there is nothing else that can be done by creative marketing professionals with a bit of innovation though, I'm sure. If the club are really bothered about spending money on marketing, I'm sure there are a mass of talented marketing students in Edinburgh who would work cheap/for experience or as part of a project.

There's a lack of innovative thinking in Scottish football in general but our club is particularly bad IMHO.

[CropleyWasGod]

How much wages are the club saving given the number of players released and the departure of Derek Adams?

I hope this goes back in to the budget for playing staff.....

There's no reason why it wouldn't, other than sound financial management.

[erin go bragh]

Kevin Kyle would be handy to get on the end of Sproule's crosses.
Adam rooney would be better than handy and he is not injury prone.[or a hearts prick]
ggtth

[CropleyWasGod]

Adam rooney would be better than handy and he is not injury prone.[or a hearts prick]
ggtth

.. it was irony. :wink:

[Mon the Hibs]

How much wages are the club saving given the number of players released and the departure of Derek Adams?

I hope this goes back in to the budget for playing staff.....

There should be a lot more money due to the amount of players that are leaving. Lets just hope that they are spent wisely

[CropleyWasGod]

There should be a lot more money due to the amount of players that are leaving. Lets just hope that they are spent wisely

If it's not, we can come and ask the big team for some tips... deal?

[Mon the Hibs]

It might just be me but i just dont really trust Calderwood to spend the money wisely but time will tell.
I am happy about Sproule though. So far so good but i just dont think he will spend wisely

[marinello59]

This is similar to the thing that folk get asked when they talk about the club buying new players or getting a new manager. If it was my job and I had the force of a company behind me, I (or my team) would have tons of ideas. However, I don't work in marketing, run a football club or have any research/surveys so I have no specific ideas. That's why we pay £500,000 a year for the Board/Exec team.

What they should be aiming to do though is to expand the customer base beyond what can be managed by constantly tapping those who already follow the club. Whether they target families where the parents have no real interest in football, particular communities, areas outside Edinburgh and whether it involves non-football entertainment, cuddly toys, different catering, mascots, dancing midgets or whatever - I don't care.

You're not genuinely suggesting that there is nothing else that can be done by creative marketing professionals with a bit of innovation though, I'm sure. If the club are really bothered about spending money on marketing, I'm sure there are a mass of talented marketing students in Edinburgh who would work cheap/for experience or as part of a project.

There's a lack of innovative thinking in Scottish football in general but our club is particularly bad IMHO.

Football isn't like any other commodity though is it? There is no mass market out there to be tapped in to so resources are going to be concentrated in those with a known affinity to the club. If people are interested in football then it's odds on they already have a club they favour.
I agree with you about he family market, It is the best way forward and perhaps that's where the resources should be targeted. Sell a kid a season ticket and you will probably have another couple sold on the back of it. The traditionalists may not like it but we might be seeing a lot more of Sunshine the Leith Lynx and co. in the coming years. I wouldn't be surprised to see quite a few family promotions taking place in the FF stand over the next season.

[greenlex]

It might just be me but i just dont really trust Calderwood to spend the money wisely but time will tell.
I am happy about Sproule though. So far so good but i just dont think he will spend wisely
Its just you. For the record is the Sproule signing a wise signing or a waste of cash cos you have me if not yourself confused.:rolleyes:

[Mon the Hibs]

Football isn't like any other commodity though is it? There is no mass market out there to be tapped in to so resources are going to be concentrated in those with a known affinity to the club. If people are interested in football then it's odds on they already have a club they favour.
I agree with you about he family market, It is the best way forward and perhaps that's where the resources should be targeted. Sell a kid a season ticket and you will probably have another couple sold on the back of it. The traditionalists may not like it but we might be seeing a lot more of Sunshine the Leith Lynx and co. in the coming years. I wouldn't be surprised to see quite a few family promotions taking place in the FF stand over the next season.
Great post.:top marks.
In my opinion the more fans in the stadium the more chance we have of winning because the players will respond to the atmosphere.
The 12th man do a great job as it is but the more fans the better

[Mon the Hibs]

Its just you. For the record is the Sproule signing a wise signing or a waste of cash cos you have me if not yourself confused.:rolleyes:
I think that Sproule is a great signing but i do not trust Calderwood with signing players for money ie a transfer fee.
Sproule was signed on a free contract so we dont have much to lose

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

East stand & Mains have underperformed since they were signed. Players signed might have helped instead.

[greenlex]

I think that Sproule is a great signing but i do not trust Calderwood with signing players for money ie a transfer fee.
Sproule was signed on a free contract so we dont have much to lose
You dont rate any of the signings Caderwood made in January then?

[Hamish]

There is no money to be spent.

All we are doing is giving away good money to stop the club going into an even deeper financial mess.

Just because we are not in the same state as other SPL clubs it does not mean we can go about offering better wages we cannot sustain, because we dont get enough supporters through the gate.

It is time for people to realise that there is no over night solution.

We can only stand still at best and perhaps grow a little in a better financial climate.

The bit in bold answers the thread question.:agree:

[Mon the Hibs]

You dont rate any of the signings Caderwood made in January then?
I like the signings of Scott and Towell but Scott was only signed for £80,000 and Towell on loan and i am talking about not trusting him with bigger money signings

[greenlex]

I like the signings of Scott and Towell but Scott was only signed for £80,000 and Towell on loan and i am talking about not trusting him with bigger money signings
Dont worry because there will be no bigger money signings. We will be in the out of contract and the scott level of signings. Calderwood has shown he has an eye for a layer so I dont see where your concerns are coming from. Squad budget will not increase and has been said already quality over quantity will be the way forward. Calderwood has already said he wants to work with a first team squad of about 20 so its onwards and upwards for me.

[Mon the Hibs]

Dont worry because there will be no bigger money signings. We will be in the out of contract and the scott level of signings. Calderwood has shown he has an eye for a layer so I dont see where your concerns are coming from. Squad budget will not increase and has been said already quality over quantity will be the way forward. Calderwood has already said he wants to work with a first team squad of about 20 so its onwards and upwards for me.
I hope you are right i would much rather quality than quantity

[ScottB]

The money comes from ending this nonsense of quantity over quality.

This season we used 37 players.

Get a smaller and leaner squad of some quality.

10x 4K basic.
5 x 3K basic.
5 x 2K basic.
10 youngsters in the squad on £500.

3.6 Million. What's our current wage bill?:greengrin

Well yes.

For me, we've been reliant on large numbers of journeymen for the last few years as there was a bit of a gap in us producing young players capable of stepping up, this now appears to be changing, so hopefully we can move to a point where we have an experienced core with young players filling in the rest of the place.

Which would be ideal, but makes it incredibly important we keep producing youngsters, or we end up with the issues we've been having; signing dozens of average players across a few years.

[Kaiser1962]

I think that Sproule is a great signing but i do not trust Calderwood with signing players for money ie a transfer fee.
Sproule was signed on a free contract so we dont have much to lose


But he's taking up one of those wages that are now available? The ones you asked about? Like anybody we sign if it works then great but if not then we are stuck.

Oh if it was simple as some suggest.

[Kaiser1962]

The money comes from ending this nonsense of quantity over quality.

This season we used 37 players.

Get a smaller and leaner squad of some quality.

10x 4K basic.
5 x 3K basic.
5 x 2K basic.
10 youngsters in the squad on £500.

3.6 Million. What's our current wage bill?:greengrin

Thats ok Smurf as long as all the players step up to the mark and no-one gets hurt. Even then our top earners would probably be amongst the lowest paid against the OF or Yams, who folk are screaming for us to match.

I take it you've left the win bonuses out after the season we have had:greengrin

[Ants]

With only 1 new signing (the one trick pony) since the end of season.
Who is gonna get Hibs out of this mire?

Investment is required now.

The board and manager should speculate for the better of Hibs.
We do not want the dregs of the barrel.....

WHY IS IT THE HIBS APPEAR TO BE A NEGATIVE PROSPECT FOR ANY PLAYER???

[R'Albin]

:rolleyes:

[Spike Mandela]

With only 1 new signing (the one trick pony) since the end of season.
Who is gonna get Hibs out of this mire?

Investment is required now.

The board and manager should speculate for the better of Hibs.
We do not want the dregs of the barrel.....

WHY IS IT THE HIBS APPEAR TO BE A NEGATIVE PROSPECT FOR ANY PLAYER???

Cue several quotes of "patience", "transition period", " I have faith in Calderwood", "we're just in to June", "The manager and Rod are on holday"," most players are on holiday", "the window's not open yet", "He's crap", "Give him a chance FFS":yawn:

[Beefster]

Cue several quotes of "patience", "transition period", " I have faith in Calderwood", "we're just in to June", "The manager and Rod are on holday"," most players are on holiday", "the window's not open yet", "He's crap", "Give him a chance FFS":yawn:

Panicking like a drama queen is much more fun.

[MyJo]

Did i not read this thread 2 hours ago :confused:

[Ants]

Cue several quotes of "patience", "transition period", " I have faith in Calderwood", "we're just in to June", "The manager and Rod are on holday"," most players are on holiday", "the window's not open yet", "He's crap", "Give him a chance FFS":yawn:

We have all been there, done that, but this time its not looking so good!

[skipster7]

:violin:
With only 1 new signing (the one trick pony):confused: since the end of season.
Who is gonna get Hibs out of this mire?

Investment is required now.

The board and manager should speculate for the better of Hibs.
We do not want the dregs of the barrel.....

WHY IS IT THE HIBS APPEAR TO BE A NEGATIVE PROSPECT FOR ANY PLAYER???
:violin:its almost as if were in groundhog day on this board :rolleyes:

[HibsMax]

Cue several quotes of "patience", "transition period", " I have faith in Calderwood", "we're just in to June", "The manager and Rod are on holday"," most players are on holiday", "the window's not open yet", "He's crap", "Give him a chance FFS":yawn:

What exactly is wrong with any of those canned responses you gave?

It's truly amazing, it's like the January window all over again.

I especially like your "the window's not open yet" response. So if Hibs want to sign a player under contract to another team, what do you suggest we do? LOL.

Patience is not a bad thing.

We ARE just in June - why do some people think that earlier signings = better signings? What logic is that based on?

[skipster7]

Did i not read this thread 2 hours ago :confused:yes:agree:

[Ants]

:violin:
:violin:its almost as if were in groundhog day on this board :rolleyes:

Well who the f!_!k is listening/taking note from the board then?
So much negativity should be publically answered. SSSSSHHHHHH.

[skipster7]

Cue several quotes of "patience", "transition period", " I have faith in Calderwood", "we're just in to June", "The manager and Rod are on holday"," most players are on holiday", "the window's not open yet", "He's crap", "Give him a chance FFS":yawn:
anyone would think you've seen a thread like this before ?:wink:

[Spike Mandela]

What exactly is wrong with any of those canned responses you gave?

It's truly amazing, it's like the January window all over again.

I especially like your "the window's not open yet" response. So if Hibs want to sign a player under contract to another team, what do you suggest we do? LOL.

Patience is not a bad thing.

We ARE just in June - why do some people think that earlier signings = better signings? What logic is that based on?

Please do not misunderstand I was not putting a case one way or another I was just parodying the predictable nature of yet another thread on this subject. Hence the yawn smilie:greengrin

[hibeemikey21]

I think Hearts' early transfer activity is influencing too many people. If they jump, we dont have to. Im sure the club are in contact with agents and other clubs and have their lists of targets lined up. Just because we haven't signed anyone within the first three days of the transfer window does not mean that we won't make any big signings. Look around the clubs in the EPL and other top European clubs-have there been any signings of note? Do you reckon Chelsea/Real Madrid fans are tearing their hair out and resigning themselves to another dire season because of their lack of activity?

Chill out. :aok:

[HibsMax]

Well who the f!_!k is listening/taking note from the board then?
So much negativity should be publically answered. SSSSSHHHHHH.

And if the board did come out and make a statement it would be soundly rubbished by all the same people who are unhappy with Hibs inactivity in the transfer market (like we have a clue what's going on behind the scenes).

[HibsMax]

Please do not misunderstand I was not putting a case one way or another I was just parodying the predictable nature of yet another thread on this subject. Hence the yawn smilie:greengrin
LOL. Maybe I'm a little touchy and need a time out. ;) My apologies.

[nonshinyfinish]

Jesus wept.

[Ants]

Please do not misunderstand I was not putting a case one way or another I was just parodying the predictable nature of yet another thread on this subject. Hence the yawn smilie:greengrin

Do you not think the persistance of such postings is cause for concern?

You can always change you wife/girlfriend, but not your team who will have been in your life more.

[HibsMax]

Jesus wept.
Because Hibs haven't made any crowd-pleasing signings yet? Didn't know he was a Hibee but it makes sense. :wink:

[skipster7]

Well who the f!_!k is listening/taking note from the board then?
So much negativity should be publically answered. SSSSSHHHHHH.
please refer to numerous replys on duplicate threads, ie.
several quotes of "patience", "transition period", " I have faith in Calderwood", "we're just in to June", "The manager and Rod are on holday"," most players are on holiday", "the window's not open yet", "He's crap", "Give him a chance FFS":yawn:

[Ants]

And if the board did come out and make a statement it would be soundly rubbished by all the same people who are unhappy with Hibs inactivity in the transfer market (like we have a clue what's going on behind the scenes).

It would be a clear, realistic and responsive intention of their belief in the manager and team.

[HibsMax]

Do you not think the persistance of such postings is cause for concern?
I know you didn't ask me but I will answer.

No.

Just because a faction of the support is unhappy with our signings, or lack thereof, does not make me fear for next season one jot. I will be concerned if the rebuilt Hibs looks weaker than what we ended up this season with. I will NOT get upset about the process.

Watching the clubs' actions minute-by-minute is nothing but heart-attack inducing behaviour.

[Spike Mandela]

Do you not think the persistance of such postings is cause for concern?

You can always change you wife/girlfriend, but not your team who will have been in your life more.

I'll live:devil:

[Franck Stanton]

IMO is .........

When it comes to success, it is measured differently,

The Fans want the team to genuinely mount a decent challenge to the ugly sisters EVERY year, to at least get to semi final stages of both cup competitions. To try and sign quality football players and not just journeymen.

The Board however, appear to count success as being in the SPL, even better if we make the top 6, even if we are bottom of the top 6. [Of course being in top 6 guarantees them more money, by ensuring a 4th Derby, visit from at least one of the ugly sisters]. As for the cup competitions, of course they want us to progress, but not for the same reasons as the fans - to them the further we go the more revenue brought in. As for signing quality players, their track record speaks volums, how I ask you can other teams [outwith the ugly sisters from the west] offer more than us/attract better players consistantly?

Before someone comes on and points out we as a club need cash coming in/healthy balance sheet, yes I appreciate that but come on , get a decent team on the park, challenge for top 3 or 4 and get to Hampden twice a year isn't too much to ask in this league now is it?

Oh for a wee bit ambition.

[HibsMax]

It would be a clear, realistic and responsive intention of their belief in the manager and team.
The board probably has as much idea about who will be playing for Hibs as we do so for them to publicly state their belief in a team that they know little about would be an empty, unrealistic remark to make.

I hear what you're saying but I think it's a totally pointless thing for the board to do. I do not expect the board to be making comments to appease fans airing their concerns on a message board.

[Ants]

I know you didn't ask me but I will answer.

No.

Just because a faction of the support is unhappy with our signings, or lack thereof, does not make me fear for next season one jot. I will be concerned if the rebuilt Hibs looks weaker than what we ended up this season with. I will NOT get upset about the process.

Watching the clubs' actions minute-by-minute is nothing but heart-attack inducing behaviour.

We have potentially 16 players leaving and only 1 replacement.....
All these players coming to the end of their contracts at one time is poor management from the negotations team.

[Cocaine&Caviar]

Surely your entire post is proven wrong when we have the 4th highest wage budget in the league?

[Ants]

Since the Admins are trying to keep the negativity down to one thread, here is the question that I have posted an answer to:-
The difference between The Fans and the Board........
Probably about £100,000 per annum.

[HibsMax]

We have potentially 16 players leaving and only 1 replacement.....
All these players coming to the end of their contracts at one time is poor management from the negotations team.
1 replacement..........so far. What is the fascination with signing players quickly? I would much rather we got the players we want rather than the players we can get for the sake of a quick deal. All that matters is that Hibs rebuild the team (successfully), not what day of the window they do it on.

I actually disagree with your last statement, a bit. It worked out in our favour because it meant it was easy to empty a bunch of players. BUT, let's say Hibs didn't want to empty a bunch of players, then it would be a more awkward situation for us. We got lucky IMO because it could have been bad.

[The Falcon]

Before someone comes on and points out we as a club need cash coming in/healthy balance sheet, yes I appreciate that but come on , get a decent team on the park, challenge for top 3 or 4 and get to Hampden twice a year isn't too much to ask in this league now is it?

Oh for a wee bit ambition.

That'll be me then.

Should we "show ambition" like Livi, Dundee, Gretna or Motherwell? Any other clubs you can think off in Scotland that have showed a "wee bit ambition" and have got within 30 points of the OF? Maybe Hearts are your role model of ambition? If you give Hibs (or anybody else for that matter, the best part of £70m (incl DfE swaps and "forgiveness") I am sure they will give it a right good go.

[The Falcon]

Surely your entire post is proven wrong when we have the 4th highest wage budget in the league?

I believe I read on here it was 5th highest.

[HibsMax]

I believe I read on here it was 5th highest.

Maybe you read it here (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?210916-Hearts-The-3rd-force-(Hibs-the-4th)&p=2817448&viewfull=1#post2817448)?

[PaulSmith]

Surely your entire post is proven wrong when we have the 4th highest wage budget in the league?

In terms of playing budget where do we stand?
Hibs have never published, iirc, this figure but do publish total wages for the running of the club.

[Kaiser1962]

In terms of playing budget where do we stand?
Hibs have never published, iirc, this figure but do publish total wages for the running of the club.

They don't. But neither does anybody else for that matter. 'Arry claimed on TV that he had no idea how much Spurs players were paid.

To date the best guide is the overall wages paid that is published in the each club's accounts. Which puts us 5th which I believe will be reasonably accurate.
We're certainly not 4th.

[R'Albin]

I think Hearts' early transfer activity is influencing too many people. If they jump, we dont have to. Im sure the club are in contact with agents and other clubs and have their lists of targets lined up. Just because we haven't signed anyone within the first three days of the transfer window does not mean that we won't make any big signings. Look around the clubs in the EPL and other top European clubs-have there been any signings of note? Do you reckon Chelsea/Real Madrid fans are tearing their hair out and resigning themselves to another dire season because of their lack of activity?

Chill out. :aok:

:agree:

Good post.

[jabis]

IMO is .........

When it comes to success, it is measured differently,

The Fans want the team to genuinely mount a decent challenge to the ugly sisters EVERY year, to at least get to semi final stages of both cup competitions. To try and sign quality football players and not just journeymen.

The Board however, appear to count success as being in the SPL, even better if we make the top 6, even if we are bottom of the top 6. [Of course being in top 6 guarantees them more money, by ensuring a 4th Derby, visit from at least one of the ugly sisters]. As for the cup competitions, of course they want us to progress, but not for the same reasons as the fans - to them the further we go the more revenue brought in. As for signing quality players, their track record speaks volums, how I ask you can other teams [outwith the ugly sisters from the west] offer more than us/attract better players consistantly?

Before someone comes on and points out we as a club need cash coming in/healthy balance sheet, yes I appreciate that but come on , get a decent team on the park, challenge for top 3 or 4 and get to Hampden twice a year isn't too much to ask in this league now is it?

Oh for a wee bit ambition.

I can only assume you took some time out from driving your Ferrari to another A-List party,with you're 160 IQ,witty,blonde sex kitten ,to post this..............

or do you live whithin you're means ? :greengrin

[new malkyhib]

The board probably has as much idea about who will be playing for Hibs as we do so for them to publicly state their belief in a team that they know little about would be an empty, unrealistic remark to make.

I hear what you're saying but I think it's a totally pointless thing for the board to do. I do not expect the board to be making comments to appease fans airing their concerns on a message board.


They don't make any comment about anything. Period.

[new malkyhib]

That'll be me then.

Should we "show ambition" like Livi, Dundee, Gretna or Motherwell? Any other clubs you can think off in Scotland that have showed a "wee bit ambition" and have got within 30 points of the OF? Maybe Hearts are your role model of ambition? If you give Hibs (or anybody else for that matter, the best part of £70m (incl DfE swaps and "forgiveness") I am sure they will give it a right good go.

You missed out Leeds and Portsmouth.

Our highly-paid Board have lowered our expectations to the likes of the massive clubs you've mentioned above. That's the frightening aspect of the whole sorry situation.

[Spike Mandela]

:agree:

Good post.

Yeah good post till he compared us to Chelsea and Real Madrid fans awaiting signings:faf:

i'm sure they can expect a rather more exciting window than us with some excellent signings assured.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Is it not a bit odd in such straightened times that perversly - just like the apparent continued demand for programmes like location, location, location - that many folk just carry on as if this depression/recession/down turn thingy never happened ?!

[ScottB]

You missed out Leeds and Portsmouth.

Our highly-paid Board have lowered our expectations to the likes of the massive clubs you've mentioned above. That's the frightening aspect of the whole sorry situation.

Even Hearts, who are spending way, way, way more than us begin a season with no higher a target than us; third place.

The Board have not lowered our expectations. Hibs have generally finished mid table for decades, that aint anything to do with Petrie and co before they took over does it.

Our expectations are the same as any other non Old Firm club, finish in the top 6, take a crack at third and some decent cup runs. If anybody is expecting more than that, then god knows what they are smoking. Whether we achieve those goals or not is a question, but I don't see how our expectations have lowered.

[The Falcon]

You missed out Leeds and Portsmouth.

Our highly-paid Board have lowered our expectations to the likes of the massive clubs you've mentioned above. That's the frightening aspect of the whole sorry situation.

The football world is littered with examples of clubs who try to buy success and fail miserably. Is the gap between us and the OF smaller than the gap between Dundee and ourselves? I think not.

Why dont you approach the board with an arrangement whereby you provide the funding for the players as long as you can decide when they get sold and you will get the profit. You obviously could do better and you seem to expect others to risk their cash, why not risk yours.

You could form a wee group of like minded individuals and approach the club with some players on a contract hire basis. You would make a fortune. I am absolutely sure the club would go for it. It would improve the quality of player at the club and you would make loads of cash when he gets sold on. You could even re-invest the cash in better quality players and so on. Offer Rod 10% of the profit to do the deal and its a win win situation.

[Dr Jimmy]

Our fans obsession with debt and the balance sheet is becoming quite sad, we are a business yes, but first and foremost a football club.
I wonder how many other teams forums concentrate so hard on finance, whether good bad or indifferent?
Spend some cash on players and at least give the impression we are here to compete.
The current club motto should be "in mediocrity we thrive" and so many fans accept this "in case, we end up like Livi or Gretna" get a ****in grip and grow a pair!

[sahib]

Signing players is a waste of money. Play our own home grown talent. Seriously

[blackpoolhibs]

Our fans obsession with debt and the balance sheet is becoming quite sad, we are a business yes, but first and foremost a football club.
I wonder how many other teams forums concentrate so hard on finance, whether good bad or indifferent?
Spend some cash on players and at least give the impression we are here to compete.
The current club motto should be "in mediocrity we thrive" and so many fans accept this "in case, we end up like Livi or Gretna" get a ****in grip and grow a pair!

Am i reading you right, do you want us to spend more than we take in?

[HNA12]

Since the Admins are trying to keep the negativity down to one thread, here is the question that I have posted an answer to:-
The difference between The Fans and the Board........
Probably about £100,000 per annum.

There's a thought. :greengrin
Nothing to do with negativity or positivity, more a case of tidying up so we don't have multiple threads running on exactly the same topic. Makes it easier for us all to follow.

[The Falcon]

Our fans obsession with debt and the balance sheet is becoming quite sad, we are a business yes, but first and foremost a football club.
I wonder how many other teams forums concentrate so hard on finance, whether good bad or indifferent?
Spend some cash on players and at least give the impression we are here to compete.
The current club motto should be "in mediocrity we thrive" and so many fans accept this "in case, we end up like Livi or Gretna" get a ****in grip and grow a pair!


Like I answered earlier. Show us how it's done while you put your own cash at risk.

It's very easy to "grow a pair" when it's other folks money you're risking.

[The Falcon]

Signing players is a waste of money. Play our own home grown talent. Seriously

When neccesity forced us to do just this is it a coincidence that we had a decent young side and the highest attendances in 35 years. It's the way to go.

[mcfly]

pick up any paper every club is signing players except us and we have released more than everyone else.

i think the board are again taking fans for granted.

who is going to renew your season ticket with no players to watch??.

we need at leas 3 quality players or another mediocre bottom 6 season awaits

[HibbyAndy]

According to the Sun (Aken :rolleyes:) Calderwood is targeting 2 top class strikers.

[Mikey]

every club is signing players

No they're not.

[MyJo]

No they're not.

yes they are.......and they're signing them all from right under our noses :grr:

imagine the world beaters we would be next season if we had Hamill, Wright, Higdon and Thompson in our team :blah:

Dundee United got in realy early with that John Rankin boy......gutted we missed out on him.....wait a minute!!!

[Spike Mandela]

According to the Sun (Aken :rolleyes:) Calderwood is targeting 2 top class strikers.

Is that today's Sun?

[HibbyAndy]

Is that today's Sun?

Aye.

[sixtwo]

To the current incumbents of the Board, and I hope to God one of them gets passed this to read........

We have a terrific infrastructure in place, to which you have done well to achieve... A great training complex at East Mains, and a terrific Stadium to boot.....

However, NOW is the time to invest in the playing squad, and add some REAL quality...... There is no point in the Stadium being a third full on matchdays, we have to see some quality additions in the Summer or fans will be lost, maybe even for good.....

The fans want to see a successful team on the park, and pay handsomely to do so.....If quality is not added revenue will almost certainly be down.... At AGM in October then the re-arranged AGM after Hughes departed, Fife Hyland (now MD), said he was looking at ways to increase revenue and turnover, well I put it to you Mr Petrie and Mr Hyland, that the only real way of achieving that goal is by putting a watchable product on the park......

Please show us some level of ambition, give us a team to be excited about, if you are not willing to bring in quality, then you do not deserve to be custodians of our wonderful Club...... Time to step up to the plate Gentlemen.

This is a great post. Totally sums up what is happening. We need investment. we need something to bring the pride back.

[blackpoolhibs]

This is a great post. Totally sums up what is happening. We need investment. we need something to bring the pride back.

How is it a great post? The club takes in x amount of money and spends it. We lose money each season, should the club spend more than we take in, or should the manager whoever is in charge, not do a damn sight better than they have been doing with the funds available to them?

[Andy74]

How is it a great post? The club takes in x amount of money and spends it. We lose money each season, should the club spend more than we take in, or should the manager whoever is in charge, not do a damn sight better than they have been doing with the funds available to them?

I lost the desire for this argument about four years ago.

We spend what we get in, that's all we can do. Up to the manager to spend it better. That's it.

[down the slope]

How is it a great post? The club takes in x amount of money and spends it. We lose money each season, should the club spend more than we take in, or should the manager whoever is in charge, not do a damn sight better than they have been doing with the funds available to them?

The managers should have done better without a doubt but i have always seen football as a cyclic thing where you speculate to get to a better level which you will see a lot of teams doing but the end result unless you get very very lucky is a return to mediocrity. I feel that we could speculate at this moment in time as we have the infrastructure in place and nothing other than the team to spend money on. Have a right good go and if it fails we will be back to nothing worse than where we are at the moment, i doubt the board would buy that idea but i feel it's worth a try.

[Kaiser1962]

No they're not.


While this is an accurate staement they're not listening Mikey. Reality dosent matter anymore as long as folk can have a pop at Hibs somehow. Dosent matter how they do it or how flimsy and suicidal their ideas are it they just NEED to do it.

It would appear some folk would risk our very existence for a quick fix when the sums dont add up. And as The Falcon says somebody else (STF?) is expected to pick up the tab.

[ScottB]

The managers should have done better without a doubt but i have always seen football as a cyclic thing where you speculate to get to a better level which you will see a lot of teams doing but the end result unless you get very very lucky is a return to mediocrity. I feel that we could speculate at this moment in time as we have the infrastructure in place and nothing other than the team to spend money on. Have a right good go and if it fails we will be back to nothing worse than where we are at the moment, i doubt the board would buy that idea but i feel it's worth a try.

But there is NO other level to reach in Scottish football.

Finishing third gets you, at best, a few hundred grand more than finishing 10th. That's the wages of a pretty normal player for a year.

So the question is, how much into hock do you want us to go to achieve something that there is no reason why we can't on our current level of expenditure? The club has no overdraft facility, where will this extra cash come from?

We tried 'speculating' under McLeish, tell me, how did that work out in terms of winning things? If anything the best we have been in my lifetime has been under Mowbray, when we were spending by far the least. Also note that under both Mcleish and Mowbray, our two best sides in decades, we weren't exactly turning fans away at the gate.

The idea that we throw a few million at the squad and all of a sudden all our problems are gone and the stadium will be full is utter nonsense. Hearts have poured the best part of £100million done the drain in the last decade to win one cup and get into the Champions League qualifiers once. Hardly worth the expense, even if we could get our hands on such cash, which we cannot.

[blackpoolhibs]

The managers should have done better without a doubt but i have always seen football as a cyclic thing where you speculate to get to a better level which you will see a lot of teams doing but the end result unless you get very very lucky is a return to mediocrity. I feel that we could speculate at this moment in time as we have the infrastructure in place and nothing other than the team to spend money on. Have a right good go and if it fails we will be back to nothing worse than where we are at the moment, i doubt the board would buy that idea but i feel it's worth a try.

Apart from being further in debt maybe, and no guarantee we'd be any better off?

[Mikey]

While this is an accurate staement they're not listening Mikey. Reality dosent matter anymore as long as folk can have a pop at Hibs somehow. Dosent matter how they do it or how flimsy and suicidal their ideas are it they just NEED to do it.

It would appear some folk would risk our very existence for a quick fix when the sums dont add up. And as The Falcon says somebody else (STF?) is expected to pick up the tab.

Aye. Many won't put their own £405 in but they want someone else to bail us out for millions if it all goes wrong.

[Kaiser1962]

Apart from being further in debt maybe, and no guarantee we'd be any better off?

the claims at the AGM were that Vlad had "invested" £60m in the club. For that they have one trophy,one disastrous foray into the CL, a few trips to europe's first round which made our show against Maribor look like near success. They have "progressed" to finishing a mere 30 points behind Rangers.

The bottom line is that during that period the have brought in income exceeding Aberdeen by £3.5m and us by £5m. Which over the timescale involved, and how rubbish us and the Dons have been, is not a great return.

[BEEJ]

pick up any paper every club is signing players except us and we have released more than everyone else.

i think the board are again taking fans for granted.

who is going to renew your season ticket with no players to watch??.

we need at leas 3 quality players or another mediocre bottom 6 season awaits
:panic::panic:

[Kaiser1962]

Aye. Many won't put their own £405 in but they want someone else to bail us out for millions if it all goes wrong.

It's a swindle Mikey, an absolute swindle.

[archiebald]

This is starting to look really bad-we have been caught out by everbody getting in fast
for players frees or not,we must get cheque book out NOW :rolleyes:

[blackpoolhibs]

the claims at the AGM were that Vlad had "invested" £60m in the club. For that they have one trophy,one disastrous foray into the CL, a few trips to europe's first round which made our show against Maribor look like near success. They have "progressed" to finishing a mere 30 points behind Rangers.

The bottom line is that during that period the have brought in income exceeding Aberdeen by £3.5m and us by £5m. Which over the timescale involved, and how rubbish us and the Dons have been, is not a great return.

Exactly, we are all fighting for 3rd place, and even then Hearts have a huge start in that race. Have St Johnstone or Inverness or Motherwell or Killmarnock spent more than us, or even Dundee United for that matter?

We could spend £10m a year on wages, but its no guarantee we'd do any better, it would give us a good chance, as long as the man who was spending it knew what he was doing.

The guys at those clubs above us did a better job than us, on less. Money is not the problem, its what they spend it on that is.

[MyJo]

The managers should have done better without a doubt but i have always seen football as a cyclic thing where you speculate to get to a better level which you will see a lot of teams doing but the end result unless you get very very lucky is a return to mediocrity. I feel that we could speculate at this moment in time as we have the infrastructure in place and nothing other than the team to spend money on. Have a right good go and if it fails we will be back to nothing worse than where we are at the moment, i doubt the board would buy that idea but i feel it's worth a try.

Our income is £7m and we spend £7m so we finish the year with a balance of £0, the next year our income is £7m and we spend £7m our balance is £0 = no worse off than we are at the moment.

Our income is £7m and we spend £10m so we finish the year with a balance of -£3m, the next year our income is £8m (assuming we finish the season slightly better than before and have a few more season tickets in our pocket) and we spent £10m we finish with a balance of £-2m = £5m in debt and paying interest to manage this or selling off our stars to the old firm to pay this off and therefore much worse off than we are at the moment?

:dunno: is it just me???

[MyJo]

This is starting to look really bad-we have been caught out by everbody getting in fast
for players frees or not,we must get cheque book out NOW :rolleyes:

With the exception of John Sutton and Willo Flood i wouldn't be particularly happy if any of the players signed by other SPL teams outwith the old firm so far got a contract with us

[Kaiser1962]

Our income is £7m and we spend £7m so we finish the year with a balance of £0, the next year our income is £7m and we spend £7m our balance is £0 = no worse off than we are at the moment.

Our income is £7m and we spend £10m so we finish the year with a balance of -£3m, the next year our income is £8m (assuming we finish the season slightly better than before and have a few more season tickets in our pocket) and we spent £10m we finish with a balance of £-2m = £5m in debt and paying interest to manage this or selling off our stars to the old firm to pay this off and therefore much worse off than we are at the moment?

:dunno: is it just me???

Or put another way Vlad has spent £60m and increased revenue by £10.4m

[HibsMax]

Our fans obsession with debt and the balance sheet is becoming quite sad, we are a business yes, but first and foremost a football club.
I wonder how many other teams forums concentrate so hard on finance, whether good bad or indifferent?
Spend some cash on players and at least give the impression we are here to compete.
The current club motto should be "in mediocrity we thrive" and so many fans accept this "in case, we end up like Livi or Gretna" get a ****in grip and grow a pair!

That's hardly sound business advice. I know we are a football team but that doesn't mean we can just disregard the business side of things and spend like we have the money when we don't.

Much to the chagrin of some fans, Hibs have been taking care of the business side of things for years now and I think we should start to see some rewards from that over the next few years (as we spend more money on the team and less on off-the-field projects). It would be folly to throw that plan away now and increase our debt.

[HibsMax]

The managers should have done better without a doubt but i have always seen football as a cyclic thing where you speculate to get to a better level which you will see a lot of teams doing but the end result unless you get very very lucky is a return to mediocrity. I feel that we could speculate at this moment in time as we have the infrastructure in place and nothing other than the team to spend money on. Have a right good go and if it fails we will be back to nothing worse than where we are at the moment, i doubt the board would buy that idea but i feel it's worth a try.
I almost agree with this. :) I agree, we should now be spending money on the team but I think it still needs to be controlled. Let's not get too carried away but YES, let's spend a little more this time around.

Here's one problem that we have with spending too much. Let's say the board "grows a pair" and invests heavily this close season. We all know that spending big bucks is not a guarantee of results on the pitch so we have to realise there is a chance that we end up with another disappointing season. It could happen. Now if that happens, will the fans realise that the board took a chance and continue to support Hibs through season ticket sales? If not, Hibs now have spent too much money on a bad team and without the continued financial support. I appreciate that's like a worst case scenario but those are the scenarios that the board has to take into consideration when planning.

Again, I think we have to realise that increased investment is not a guarantee of better results, although I appreciate that generally speaking, you get better quality for increased $$$.

[smurf]

I lost the desire for this argument about four years ago.

We spend what we get in, that's all we can do. Up to the manager to spend it better. That's it.

And entirely up to the board to appoint a manager to actually do that.
They have to take ultimate responsibility for appointing a manager who makes Michael bloody Hart top wage earner...

[smurf]

Aye. Many won't put their own £405 in but they want someone else to bail us out for millions if it all goes wrong.

True. But lets not forget many are still putting in their £405.:thumbsup:

A Film Production company don't refuse to make the movie before we buy the cinema ticket.:wink::greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

And entirely up to the board to appoint a manager to actually do that.
They have to take ultimate responsibility for appointing a manager who makes Michael bloody Hart top wage earner...

:agree: Each and every Hibs manager gets the funds to make us much better than 10th. Although when we do get 4th, thats still not good enough for some.

[blackpoolhibs]

True. But lets not forget many are still putting in their £405.:thumbsup:

A Film Production company don't refuse to make the movie before we buy the cinema ticket.:wink::greengrin

Some film production companys go bust though.

[Kaiser1962]

:agree: Each and every Hibs manager gets the funds to make us much better than 10th. Although when we do get 4th, thats still not good enough for some.

Chelsea sacked their manager too. They reckon he would have gone anyway cos they hadnt won the Champion's League. Everything is relative and everybody wants more.

[Saorsa]

Aye. Many won't put their own £405 in but they want someone else to bail us out for millions if it all goes wrong.While many continue tae put in their £405 (and a lot more besides) and have been suffering unacceptable garbage for too long.

[The Falcon]

While many continue tae put in their £405 (and a lot more besides) and have been suffering unacceptable garbage for too long.

We finished 4th the season before the one just ended.

[blackpoolhibs]

Chelsea sacked their manager too. They reckon he would have gone anyway cos they hadnt won the Champion's League. Everything is relative and everybody wants more.

I expect more from Hibs, i dont ever expect us to finish 10th though. I do expect us to be up challenging for a european place every season, but i dont expect us to pay over the odds for it.

With the right manager, this should be achievable more often than not imo.

[HibsMax]

While many continue tae put in their £405 (and a lot more besides) and have been suffering unacceptable garbage for too long.

I agree about the suffering but I honestly don't think that it's the board's intention to make us suffer and I have to believe that they are suffering too unless it's reasonable to assume that being at the helm of an unsuccessful business is something that brings joy into their lives?

[Luna_Asylum]

We finished 4th the season before the one just ended.

correct and I think we have won one european game in the last 20 years

[Dr Jimmy]

Like I answered earlier. Show us how it's done while you put your own cash at risk.

It's very easy to "grow a pair" when it's other folks money you're risking.

What a pathetic response, I assume you are happy with the crap we are watching and have been for a long time now?

Why not try something different? The board have no qualms about taking out loans and spending on infrastructure, which is not exactly risk free.....see the white elephant west stand as an example.
If they invest in the team this year, yes spend more than we bring in, pay a fee or decent signing on fee and get decent players in on longer contracts (team infrastructure). Then spend less than we bring in next year to try and balance the books?
Worth a punt in my eyes, as we are at a tipping point where support is dwindling and will continue too unless we adopt a different approach.

Remember if the world was full of people scared of change or taking a chance, we would still believe the world was flat..!!

[marinello59]

We finished 4th the season before the one just ended.

Surely not? With this parsimonious board? I refuse to believe that happened.

[The Falcon]

correct and I think we have won one european game in the last 20 years

And if we had won lots of games in the UEFA cup then someone would be saying that we never won in the Champions League. :rolleyes:

[smurf]

Some film production companys go bust though.

Ones that make poor movies do. Lets put it this way with the current boards record they wouldn't sell many cinema tickets.:greengrin

[The Falcon]

What a pathetic response, I assume you are happy with the crap we are watching and have been for a long time now?

Why not try something different? The board have no qualms about taking out loans and spending on infrastructure, which is not exactly risk free.....see the white elephant west stand as an example.
If they invest in the team this year, yes spend more than we bring in, pay a fee or decent signing on fee and get decent players in on longer contracts (team infrastructure). Then spend less than we bring in next year to try and balance the books?
Worth a punt in my eyes, as we are at a tipping point where support is dwindling and will continue too unless we adopt a different approach.

Remember if the world was full of people scared of change or taking a chance, we would still believe the world was flat..!!

Then "take a punt" then. Put your money where your mouth is.

[smurf]

I expect more from Hibs, i dont ever expect us to finish 10th though. I do expect us to be up challenging for a european place every season, but i dont expect us to pay over the odds for it.

With the right manager, this should be achievable more often than not imo.

And as we haven't we can therefore conclude that this board have failed?

[The Falcon]

Ones that make poor movies do. Lets put it this way with the current boards record they wouldn't sell many cinema tickets.:greengrin

Not the ones are financed by people with megabucks to play with. :greengrin

[Kaiser1962]

And as we haven't we can therefore conclude that this board have failed?

I would conclude that we have some bad seasons and the most recent being particularly bad.

But as we finished fourth the season before, would you regard that they succeeded?

[Dr Jimmy]

Then "take a punt" then. Put your money where your mouth is.

I do every season, do you or does your seat come with your place on the board?

[HibsMax]

What a pathetic response, I assume you are happy with the crap we are watching and have been for a long time now?

Why not try something different? The board have no qualms about taking out loans and spending on infrastructure, which is not exactly risk free.....see the white elephant west stand as an example.
If they invest in the team this year, yes spend more than we bring in, pay a fee or decent signing on fee and get decent players in on longer contracts (team infrastructure). Then spend less than we bring in next year to try and balance the books?
Worth a punt in my eyes, as we are at a tipping point where support is dwindling and will continue too unless we adopt a different approach.

Remember if the world was full of people scared of change or taking a chance, we would still believe the world was flat..!!

LOL. Just because someone's opinion differs from your own doesn't make their response pathetic. Here are the two opposing points of view in summary:
1. spend more than we make
2. spend within our means

If I was forced into putting one of those ideas in the "pathetic bucket", I know which one I would select.

All this concern and none of us even know who Hibs are going to sign so at this stage it's all speculation. I think it's totally unfair to grade the board's ambition before we've even seen what they are prepared to do. Why not wait and see, THEN judge rather than making rash assumptions? You might end up being right but it seems like the smart thing to do would be wait and see.

[smurf]

I would conclude that we have some bad seasons and the most recent being particularly bad.

But as we finished fourth the season before, would you regard that they succeeded?

So why then did they sack their Manager a few weeks after that?

[Kaiser1962]

I do every season, do you or does your seat come with your place on the board?

Your the one telling them what to do!!

We're not good Max, everybody knows it. Your point about spending money and bringing in decent players is great when it works but, given the perilous financial state of the vast majotity of football clubs nobody is doing it very well.
I would love us to sign some decent players but even Liverpool reserves, when they agree to come, only do so on short term deals. They see it as a stepping stone and thats what we are, like most clubs outwith the top 2 or four clubs in most leagues in Europe.
In days gone buy guys like Tom Hart could finance a football club out of his own pocket but nowadays you need to be a billionare to do it.

[smurf]

I do every season, do you or does your seat come with your place on the board?

There is a very poor attempt to reduce the significance of those of us who do cough up our up front commitment by way of purchasing a season ticket.

Those of us who do are this year alone putting in £405 more than any current board member ever has.

[Kaiser1962]

So why then did they sack their Manager a few weeks after that?

Your shifting the goalposts Smurf :greengrin

If you do try to make the one's we're shooting into double the size.

[Luna_Asylum]

And if we had won lots of games in the UEFA cup then someone would be saying that we never won in the Champions League. :rolleyes:

Well they might but that does not alter the fact it's an abysmal record - IMHO anyway - in fact way way worse than abysmal whatever that is

champions league - your having a laugh

[ScottB]

And as we haven't we can therefore conclude that this board have failed?

They have both succeeded and failed IMO.

We joined in with everyone else and 'speculated' 10 years ago. The Board backed McLeish to get us back up and kick on. This period brought promotion, a third place and a Scottish Cup Final.

They then threw the brakes on before the ars*e fell out from under us, and embarked on a policy of cost cutting to prevent administration. Which also worked. Then came the Mowbray era, which was also I would say, a success. The Board then began developing the infrastructure, which in the long term is / will be good for the club. Under Mowbray we were top half or better, and had Cup runs. Even though the Blobster was crap before this, he also made a Cup Final.

Collins won a Cup, top 6 finish and was backed in the transfer market. Mixu was top half, Hughes got a 4th place. The later two were extensively backed in the transfer market. CC took over Hughes' mess. I won't judge him until he's had a season without the Hughes related hangover.

So yeah, we've been a bit up and down, just like every other non Old Firm club. Thing is, for those who want the Board out, who comes in? This isn't like binning a manager after all.

[ScottB]

What a pathetic response, I assume you are happy with the crap we are watching and have been for a long time now?

Why not try something different? The board have no qualms about taking out loans and spending on infrastructure, which is not exactly risk free.....see the white elephant west stand as an example.
If they invest in the team this year, yes spend more than we bring in, pay a fee or decent signing on fee and get decent players in on longer contracts (team infrastructure). Then spend less than we bring in next year to try and balance the books?
Worth a punt in my eyes, as we are at a tipping point where support is dwindling and will continue too unless we adopt a different approach.

Remember if the world was full of people scared of change or taking a chance, we would still believe the world was flat..!!

Go to a bank for a loan with a business case for a new stand or a training facility and I'm sure they will listen. Go to a bank asking for a loan to spend on players and they'll probably laugh in our face.

[nonshinyfinish]

Our income is £7m and we spend £7m so we finish the year with a balance of £0, the next year our income is £7m and we spend £7m our balance is £0 = no worse off than we are at the moment.

Our income is £7m and we spend £10m so we finish the year with a balance of -£3m, the next year our income is £8m (assuming we finish the season slightly better than before and have a few more season tickets in our pocket) and we spent £10m we finish with a balance of £-2m = £5m in debt and paying interest to manage this or selling off our stars to the old firm to pay this off and therefore much worse off than we are at the moment?

:dunno: is it just me???

It's not just you.

However, I doubt that the 'break the bank' gang will take note any time soon.

[blackpoolhibs]

And as we haven't we can therefore conclude that this board have failed?

I think they did fail last season, only in they appointed a manager who couldnt manage someone elses players, the same players who managed to get the club to 4th place the season before.

They have a habit of appointing duff managers, althought they give those managers more money than most after doing so.

All we have to ask ourselves is these questions, how did all those teams who finished above us do so?

Was it because they spent more than us, or were they better managed?

[marinello59]

What a pathetic response, I assume you are happy with the crap we are watching and have been for a long time now?

Why not try something different? The board have no qualms about taking out loans and spending on infrastructure, which is not exactly risk free.....see the white elephant west stand as an example.
If they invest in the team this year, yes spend more than we bring in, pay a fee or decent signing on fee and get decent players in on longer contracts (team infrastructure). Then spend less than we bring in next year to try and balance the books?
Worth a punt in my eyes, as we are at a tipping point where support is dwindling and will continue too unless we adopt a different approach.

Remember if the world was full of people scared of change or taking a chance, we would still believe the world was flat..!!

White elephant West Stand? I don't really understand that one.

[ScottB]

I think they did fail last season, only in they appointed a manager who couldnt manage someone elses players, the same players who managed to get the club to 4th place the season before.

They have a habit of appointing duff managers, althought they give those managers more money than most after doing so.

All we have to ask ourselves is these questions, how did all those teams who finished above us do so?

Was it because they spent more than us, or were they better managed?

To be fair, those players original manager was managing them at relegation form for almost a whole calendar year before he left.

[MyJo]

White elephant West Stand? I don't really understand that one.

dont try.....its easier that way :sairhead:

[blackpoolhibs]

To be fair, those players original manager was managing them at relegation form for almost a whole calendar year before he left.

Yip cant deny that, although it makes Yogi look like Mourinho getting them so high earlier in that season. :wink:

As i have said before, if the managers any good he will get them playing to a system thast gives us half a chance in most games. Then our bigger spending power than most should se us have better playersto help with that system.

The manager carries the can, and after that the board for employing so many numpties.

[The Falcon]

I do every season, do you or does your seat come with your place on the board?

Yes. No. The guys on the board are picked by the man who picks up the tab.

If you show him how he can turn this around then he will give you a seat on the board.

[ScottB]

Yip cant deny that, although it makes Yogi look like Mourinho getting them so high earlier in that season. :wink:

As i have said before, if the managers any good he will get them playing to a system thast gives us half a chance in most games. Then our bigger spending power than most should se us have better playersto help with that system.

The manager carries the can, and after that the board for employing so many numpties.

Oh definitely.

If CC is mince this season coming, then somebody at Board level has to carry the can for it.

Though for me, I think appointing Collins, Mixu and Hughes was the Board paying too much attention to the support. CC seems more like a Mowbray appointment, where the Board have went off and found someone that the support had not been going on about. Well hopefully anyway...

[Andy74]

To be fair, those players original manager was managing them at relegation form for almost a whole calendar year before he left.

Do you have a calendar that only goes from mid February to October?

[The Falcon]

Well they might but that does not alter the fact it's an abysmal record - IMHO anyway - in fact way way worse than abysmal whatever that is

champions league - your having a laugh

It is an abysmal record but comparable to most clubs outwith the OF.

Champions league? It is loaded against us to the point of being practically impossible.

[Dashing Bob S]

Yip cant deny that, although it makes Yogi look like Mourinho getting them so high earlier in that season. :wink:

As i have said before, if the managers any good he will get them playing to a system thast gives us half a chance in most games. Then our bigger spending power than most should se us have better playersto help with that system.

The manager carries the can, and after that the board for employing so many numpties.

The board have made poor appointments. They lucked out with Mowbray and seem to have no strategy swithering between giving us what they think we want 'an exciting young manager with Hibs credentials' to an uninspiring steady hand who will bore us to tears.

I don't see any evidence that they've sold this club as one with a beautiful stadium in a capital city, its own fully owned dedicated training facility, managable debt, continuity of ownership and one that should be playing in Europe every year.

Hibs should NEVER be out the top six in this dross league, and only out the top four in exceptionally poor transitional seasons.

[Kaiser1962]

In defence of Yogi it looked like that squad, whilst talented, was flawed (which was probably why they were here in the first place).

It would have imploded with anyone and Yogi took the hit. In fairness he recognised this and was dealing with it but results and criticism caught up with him.

Some of the comments didnt help.



Yip cant deny that, although it makes Yogi look like Mourinho getting them so high earlier in that season. :wink:

As i have said before, if the managers any good he will get them playing to a system thast gives us half a chance in most games. Then our bigger spending power than most should se us have better playersto help with that system.

The manager carries the can, and after that the board for employing so many numpties.

[ScottB]

Do you have a calendar that only goes from mid February to October?

Note the word 'almost' there?

I'd say February to October is a fairly sizable chunk out of a year no?

[Andy74]

Note the word 'almost' there?

I'd say February to October is a fairly sizable chunk out of a year no?

It's two thirds or thereabouts. And we weren't playing for a couple of months of it.

Even saying almost a whole calendar year was a long, long way off.

[ScottB]

It's two thirds or thereabouts. And we weren't playing for a couple of months of it.

Even saying almost a whole calendar year was a long, long way off.

I'd say it is three quarters, and we weren't exactly brilliant in January either, so that would be 10 out of 12 months.

In any case, Hughes couldn't motivate that bunch from Jan / Feb '10 onwards.

[Baldy Foghorn]

How much money is now being saved due to so many players being released and Miller and Deek leaving this week, along with Adams going back to Ross County?

I would hope that this momey is reapportioned back into the playing budget? The board should also be on encentivised salaries, as finishing tenth affects all at the club, and the half a million they pull out should be reduced......

Are the Board value for money?

[Kaiser1962]

How much money is now being saved due to so many players being released and Miller and Deek leaving this week, along with Adams going back to Ross County?

I would hope that this momey is reapportioned back into the playing budget? The board should also be on encentivised salaries, as finishing tenth affects all at the club, and the half a million they pull out should be reduced......

Are the Board value for money?

Yes

[Baldy Foghorn]

How much money is now being saved due to so many players being released and Miller and Deek leaving this week, along with Adams going back to Ross County?

I would hope that this momey is reapportioned back into the playing budget? The board should also be on encentivised salaries, as finishing tenth affects all at the club, and the half a million they pull out should be reduced......

Are the Board value for money?

Yes

I disagree......Think they don't have any level of ambition for the Club IMO

[Andy74]

I'd say it is three quarters, and we weren't exactly brilliant in January either, so that would be 10 out of 12 months.

In any case, Hughes couldn't motivate that bunch from Jan / Feb '10 onwards.
In what way is 8 months three quarters of twelve? Take out the two months we didn't play it's down to half.

Other than a month nothing changed in the seven months following.

[Kaiser1962]

[QUOTE=Kaiser1962;2821021]

I disagree......Think they don't have any level of ambition for the Club IMO

Ambition in what way and how would they achieve this?

[Andy74]

[QUOTE=Kaiser1962;2821021]

I disagree......Think they don't have any level of ambition for the Club IMO

Is building a top class training centre, a top class stadium and increasing the budget year on year at the same time not fairly ambitious?

[Baldy Foghorn]

[QUOTE=Baldy Foghorn;2821026]

Is building a top class training centre, a top class stadium and increasing the budget year on year at the same time not fairly ambitious?

The infrastructure is in place, product on park gash.....The Board are as culpable as the managers they hire and fire....

Club being run as a business, not as a football team IMO

[Kaiser1962]

[QUOTE=Andy74;2821032]

The infrastructure is in place, product on park gash.....The Board are as culpable as the managers they hire and fire....

Club being run as a business, not as a football team IMO


I fail to see how you can diferentiate BF. If you dont want to run the thing "as a business" then somebody else has to pay the bills. The next question is who that should be?

The product is gash there is no doubt and the board appoint the managers. But we cant pay top wages so we dont get the top managers. If we do pay top wages that we cant afford then we return to who picks up the bill.

[Ants]

[QUOTE=Baldy Foghorn;2821038]


I fail to see how you can diferentiate BF. If you dont want to run the thing "as a business" then somebody else has to pay the bills. The next question is who that should be?

The product is gash there is no doubt and the board appoint the managers. But we cant pay top wages so we dont get the top managers. If we do pay top wages that we cant afford then we return to who picks up the bill.

The board have to speculate to accumulate.

We have already had the glory years of bringing the youngsters through and selling them at the earliest opportunity, the quantity of quality youngsters is not there anymore.

The longer the poor quality exists, the less the crowds will be, then the more critisism of the club.

[marinello59]

The board have to speculate to accumulate.

We have already had the glory years of bringing the youngsters through and selling them at the earliest opportunity, the quantity of quality youngsters is not there anymore.

The longer the poor quality exists, the less the crowds will be, then the more critisism of the club.

What %age of turnover do you think should be spent on the playing budget then? I would be genuinely interested to know the answer to this as I am no financial expert.

[HFC 0-7]

[QUOTE=Baldy Foghorn;2821026]

Is building a top class training centre, a top class stadium and increasing the budget year on year at the same time not fairly ambitious?


Andy, are you saying that the board have ambition but are just not very good at their jobs? You are saying that they have spent a lot of money on infrastructure and playing staff but have ended up playing as bad as most can remember and going through A LOT of managers and players in the process.

The board have proved that they are good at cost cutting, building infrastructure and slowly increasing player budgets. They have clearly had plans and implemented them, all these are things they are directly in control of. What they are not in control of is what players are bought via this expanding wage budget as this is the managers job. What they are in control of is the person they appoint for that task. They have been failing more often than not in that area.

I would say now that the board will be feeling the pressure more as there is no longer a new stand or training ground on its way to show what a good job they are doing. People will soon forget that they were responsible for the stands and training facilities and will look only to the pitch to measure the boards performance.

Personally I would say the boards ambition is probably lower than many fans, but more than how we have been performing of late. Yes we have had a 4th place finish here and there but I am sure the board, business minded as they are, will not really see that as a success as they will be looking for good finishes to be sustained not peppered amongst 10th place finishes, relegation form and large amounts of fans disgust.

[Mibbes Aye]

The infrastructure is in place, product on park gash.....The Board are as culpable as the managers they hire and fire....

Club being run as a business, not as a football team IMO

If it was being run as a business then it should be making a yearly return for its shareholders. I've not received a dividend yet.

Instead, we've got a commitment to spend what we earn.

Just out of interest, how many of the other SPL clubs have made that sort of commitment on public record?