SNP are lying b******s as well !

[jamie_1875]

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"now is not the time" for 300 years

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2014 was 11 years ago?

[Callum_62]

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2014 was 11 years ago?

You were talking about 1707 to 2014

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[grunt]

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Wasn’t wrong, it’s actually democracy in action, just some don’t agree with the democratic result.

You'll have had your democracy.

[Andy Bee]

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Scotland and England were separate for many years after the joining of the crown by James VI/I with England trying many times to join the 2 parliaments, 1707 happened due to Scotland's money men losing nearly all their money on the Darien scheme and they went cap in hand to the English to help them out, joining of the parliaments was the answer. Funnily enough there were riots in all of Scotland's major cities at the time with the people very angry it was happening. The countries themselves never joined together but only the parliaments, hence we still have our own legal system, education etc.

That's a common misconception JC, the Darien project ended in 1699-1700 and granted it was disastrous financially but if as you say "Scots went cap in hand" then the English would have taken them up. If that's the case then why did the English bring in the Alien Act in 1705. The Alien Act banned Scotland trading with any other country in the Empire including England, it disallowed any Scotsman who owned land in England from leaving that land to their children as an inheritance, it basically made Scottish people aliens or in todays terms illegal immigrants in England. The act was created solely to force Scotland to accept the Hanoverian Succession and for the Scottish Parliament to enter into Union negotiations. We were effectively blackmailed. An interesting point on the finances of the two nations at the point of Union, Scotland had more money in the bank per capita than England did.

[The Tubs]

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That's a common misconception JC, the Darien project ended in 1699-1700 and granted it was disastrous financially but if as you say "Scots went cap in hand" then the English would have taken them up. If that's the case then why did the English bring in the Alien Act in 1705. The Alien Act banned Scotland trading with any other country in the Empire including England, it disallowed any Scotsman who owned land in England from leaving that land to their children as an inheritance, it basically made Scottish people aliens or in todays terms illegal immigrants in England. The act was created solely to force Scotland to accept the Hanoverian Succession and for the Scottish Parliament to enter into Union negotiations. We were effectively blackmailed. An interesting point on the finances of the two nations at the point of Union, Scotland had more money in the bank per capita than England did.

If Scotland had found a niche for itself in the trading world at that time, then English hostility would have been par for the course but manageable. Other small foreign nations like Portugal or the Netherlands must have had to deal with the same issues with their bigger neighbours.

[Andy Bee]

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I am not sure that's true, the Scottish and English parliaments were both abolished and a new Parliament of Great Britain created.

https://www.parliament.scot/about/hi...ish-parliament

"The original Parliament of Scotland (or "Estates of Scotland") was the national law maker of the independent Kingdom of Scotland. It existed from the early 13th century until 1707. This was when the Kingdom of Scotland merged with the Kingdom of England under the Acts of Union 1707 to form the Kingdom of Great Britain. Because of this, the Parliament of Scotland was closed and a Parliament of Great Britain was created, at Westminster in London."

To be honest I am not sure many people in 2025 really care though. Unless you are suggesting the Scottish Parliament website is incorrect?

The English Parliament was never dissolved, it simply made room for an extra 45 MPs on the benches from Scotland, changed its name to GB and carried on dealing with the business it was dealing with the day before as the English Parliament.

[J-C]

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Wasn't that wrong put right in 2014? The people of Scotland were asked what they wanted.

And then lied to by certain MP's and business men scaremongering the Scottish people, threatening to take away pensions and businesses closing, just before the 2014 vote the yes campaign was around 55%, the swing by older voters changed all that as they all panicked.

Very similar to the Brexit vote, all the lies and threats and look at us now, so much better off eh?

[J-C]

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That's a common misconception JC, the Darien project ended in 1699-1700 and granted it was disastrous financially but if as you say "Scots went cap in hand" then the English would have taken them up. If that's the case then why did the English bring in the Alien Act in 1705. The Alien Act banned Scotland trading with any other country in the Empire including England, it disallowed any Scotsman who owned land in England from leaving that land to their children as an inheritance, it basically made Scottish people aliens or in todays terms illegal immigrants in England. The act was created solely to force Scotland to accept the Hanoverian Succession and for the Scottish Parliament to enter into Union negotiations. We were effectively blackmailed. An interesting point on the finances of the two nations at the point of Union, Scotland had more money in the bank per capita than England did.

I think Scotland as a nation were ok money wise but the land owners never recovered, they of course were the men of the parliament who seen the merger as a good thing for their pockets. The Darien scheme was backed by almost 20% of all money in Scotland and left the Lowlands in financial ruin, speeding up the 1707 process. England were deliberately squeezing Scotland dry, our shipbuilding and industries were deteriorating and we were weaker compared to England, the Navigation Acts further restricting Scotland's shipping and forcing other countries to us England, wee needed the Darien scheme to work.

[jamie_1875]

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The English Parliament was never dissolved, it simply made room for an extra 45 MPs on the benches from Scotland, changed its name to GB and carried on dealing with the business it was dealing with the day before as the English Parliament.

Legally it was, the Act makes that clear.

I. “That the two Kingdoms of Scotland and England, shall, upon the first Day of May next ensuing the Date hereof, and for ever after, be united into one Kingdom by the Name of Great-Britain…”

III. “That the United Kingdom of Great Britain be represented by one and the same Parliament, to be stiled, The Parliament of Great Britain.”

You may believe that essentially it was still the English Parliament but legally it was abolished.

[Kato]

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I think Scotland as a nation were ok money wise but the land owners never recovered, they of course were the men of the parliament who seen the merger as a good thing for their pockets.

It was good for their pockets given the bribes that were handed out.

There had already been a combined govt for years under Cromwells occupation.

Moves to officially combine the parliaments had been going on since the Union of The Crowns, with no real support on the ground . Only once the landed gentry had been cornered and paid for did it become a reality.

The first law passed on behalf of Scotland was to impose Martial Law, which shows exactly how popular it was among the populace.

There was nothing democratic about the Act of Union.

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[grunt]

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If Scotland had found a niche for itself in the trading world at that time, then English hostility would have been par for the course but manageable. Other small foreign nations like Portugal or the Netherlands must have had to deal with the same issues with their bigger neighbours.

Not sure Portugal is a very good example. It was a huge international nation state in the 17th century, I think?

[The Tubs]

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Not sure Portugal is a very good example. It was a huge international nation state in the 17th century, I think?

It was a first mover in terms of colonisation but it started as a small country with a small population and had similar problems in terms of self-sufficiency and a powerful neighbour. Indeed, the battle of Aljubarrota is similar to Bannockburn in terms of defining their nation.

[grunt]

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It was a first mover in terms of colonisation but it started as a small country with a small population and had similar problems in terms of self-sufficiency and a powerful neighbour. Indeed, the battle of Aljubarrota is similar to Bannockburn in terms of defining their nation.

Thank you. I learn so much on this forum!

[Hibs4185]

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I am not sure that's true, the Scottish and English parliaments were both abolished and a new Parliament of Great Britain created.

https://www.parliament.scot/about/history-of-the-scottish-parliament

"The original Parliament of Scotland (or "Estates of Scotland") was the national law maker of the independent Kingdom of Scotland. It existed from the early 13th century until 1707. This was when the Kingdom of Scotland merged with the Kingdom of England under the Acts of Union 1707 to form the Kingdom of Great Britain. Because of this, the Parliament of Scotland was closed and a Parliament of Great Britain was created, at Westminster in London."

To be honest I am not sure many people in 2025 really care though. Unless you are suggesting the Scottish Parliament website is incorrect?

I love your passion for a failing case, however why would a new parliament continue the bill numbers from the old parliament?

Surely a new parliament would be bill 1?

Whereas the day before the ‘act of union’ it was bill 36.4 and tye day after it was 36.5.

Not the exact numbers Because I can’t be arsed looking but the sentiment is correct.

It was a continuation of the English parliament amd not a new parliament.

Again research Bruce Black

[jamie_1875]

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I love your passion for a failing case, however why would a new parliament continue the bill numbers from the old parliament?

Surely a new parliament would be bill 1?

Whereas the day before the ‘act of union’ it was bill 36.4 and tye day after it was 36.5.

Not the exact numbers Because I can’t be arsed looking but the sentiment is correct.

It was a continuation of the English parliament amd not a new parliament.

Again research Bruce Black

Something new can be created and carry on old business, look at Rangers. They died and were abolished but carried on as before. Legally the English Parliament was abolished, we will agree to disagree rather than back and forth, and nobody in 2025 really cares as well apart from a very small number of people.

[Hibs4185]

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Something new can be created and carry on old business, look at Rangers. They died and were abolished but carried on as before. Legally the English Parliament was abolished, we will agree to disagree rather than back and forth, and nobody in 2025 really cares as well apart from a very small number of people.

The UN can decide whether it’s a legitimate cause cause, then the people can decide whether they care or not.

[jamie_1875]

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The UN can decide whether it’s a legitimate cause cause, then the people can decide whether they care or not.

Look at any website or search was the English Parliament abolished in 1707 and every single answer is yes it was. Let's see what the UN has to say.

[Stairway 2 7]

Cromwell Mikey Forrester what the f. The year was...

The legality chat is ridiculous but it doesn't matter. Independence will come I'm pretty certain in the next few decades

[Hibs4185]

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Cromwell Mikey Forrester what the f. The year was...

The legality chat is ridiculous but it doesn't matter. Independence will come I'm pretty certain in the next few decades

As you have said previously, demographics etc means independence will become the majority but how can it be achieved if Westminster refuses an independence vote? Starmer has said no way and if polls are to be believed, the Farage has said no way.

How can Scotland ever become independent .

My view is simply that every avenue should be explored whether you think it’s silly or not

[Smartie]

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Cromwell Mikey Forrester what the f. The year was...

The legality chat is ridiculous but it doesn't matter. Independence will come I'm pretty certain in the next few decades

I don’t agree that it will happen.

Scotland has FAR too much that England is going to need going forward by way of water and energy for them to let us have either control of it or a fair deal for it.

We had our chance.

[Hibs4185]

https://eire.liberation.scot/docedit..._redirect=true

Sare yin for the unionists

[Hibspur]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0r1de24pdgo

After the bottle deposit scheme debacle (for which they're being sued for £200 million), you'd think the Scottish government would want to make sure they had a workable infrastructure in place for this before rolling it out. Wouldn't be surprised if they now roll it back.

[Jack]

Winter fuel payments for Scottish pensioners will not be less than those being paid by the UK government south of the border, John Swinney has said.

The first minister made the announcement after Chancellor Rachel Reeves U-turned on a highly controversial cut.

[He's here!]

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0r1de24pdgo

After the bottle deposit scheme debacle (for which they're being sued for £200 million), you'd think the Scottish government would want to make sure they had a workable infrastructure in place for this before rolling it out. Wouldn't be surprised if they now roll it back.

I see the SNP are trying to brush this off as standard practice. Be interesting to see their stance if it was England's waste getting trucked into Scotland.

[hibee]

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I see the SNP are trying to brush this off as standard practice. Be interesting to see their stance if it was England's waste getting trucked into Scotland.

I think we know what their stance would be, who implements a ban when they’ve not got a solution in place, absolute madness.

They should start getting a grip on the amount of recycling going in wheelie bins too. I regularly see loads of bins being put out overflowing with cardboard boxes and plastic bottles that could all be recycled. I bet these are the same people who moan about 3 week collections.

[grunt]

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I see the SNP are trying to brush this off as standard practice. Be interesting to see their stance if it was England's waste getting trucked into Scotland.

I doubt it's being done without England's approval. They'll be getting paid for it, and quite happy about it.

Every time the ScotGov tries to do something different the unionist press and English Govt combine to make it impossible. Let us have independence and we'll deal with it ourselves. And the bottle recycling.

[Kato]

Such a cheek. Taking bottles back. Thank jebus we didn't do that sort of nonsense when I was a nipper.

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[jamie_1875]

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I doubt it's being done without England's approval. They'll be getting paid for it, and quite happy about it.

Every time the ScotGov tries to do something different the unionist press and English Govt combine to make it impossible. Let us have independence and we'll deal with it ourselves. And the bottle recycling.

Who is this English Government, it doesn't exist (apart from in your head)

There is a desire to do things differently yes but why not attempt to do it differently in a competent and legal way instead of one mess after another. If done in a competent way it may actually make a difference instead of another embarrassment like moving hundreds of thousands of tons of rubbish to England for a few years because as per usual a grand announcement was made but no plans to back it up.

[Hibspur]

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I doubt it's being done without England's approval. They'll be getting paid for it, and quite happy about it.

Every time the ScotGov tries to do something different the unionist press and English Govt combine to make it impossible. Let us have independence and we'll deal with it ourselves. And the bottle recycling.

The calamitous bottle return scheme had nothing to do with 'unionist press' or the UK government and everything to do with the incompetence of the Scottish government officials tasked with implementing it, most notably Lorna Slater. Its glaring deficiencies were clear months before Westminster had to step in. Even the Scottish government's own report into the debacle acknowledged that.

[grunt]

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The calamitous bottle return scheme had nothing to do with 'unionist press' or the UK government and everything to do with the incompetence of the Scottish government officials tasked with implementing it, most notably Lorna Slater. Its glaring deficiencies were clear months before Westminster had to step in. Even the Scottish government's own report into the debacle acknowledged that.

BBC: The report said a key blocker to the DRS' delivery was the time taken by the UK government to make a decision on whether to grant Scotland an exemption to internal market rules.

UK ministers eventually decided to grant this exemption providing the Scottish scheme did not accept glass.

Glass was a key part of the original Scottish proposals and is still (2023) included in the Welsh government's DRS proposals.