SNP are lying b******s as well !

[Andy Bee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If you guys think the colonist argument is the winning one please crack on.

Nope, if you don't want to research the facts and come to your own conclusions then that's your colonial mindset problem that needs addressed my friend, there's no argument or winning anything involved in it.

[jamie_1875]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Nope, if you don't want to research the facts and come to your own conclusions then that's your colonial mindset problem that needs addressed my friend, there's no argument or winning anything involved in it.

My colonist mindset? 😂 Sorry but I just can't take it at all seriously. It's just not something the people of Scotland will relate to at all based on their day to day lives. Why isn't John Swinney or why didn't Humza Yousaf and Nicola Sturgeon really hammer home this colony message? I suspect because people would find it all a bit strange.

[jamie_1875]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Nope, if you don't want to research the facts and come to your own conclusions then that's your colonial mindset problem that needs addressed my friend, there's no argument or winning anything involved in it.

My colonist mindset? 😂 Sorry but I just can't take it at all seriously. It's just not something the people of Scotland will relate to at all based on their day to day lives. Why isn't John Swinney or why didn't Humza Yousaf and Nicola Sturgeon really hammer home this colony message? I suspect because people would find it all a bit strange.

When Gordon Brown was the PM he was elected the PM of the UK by the people of erm...Dumfermline who live in the supposed colony....

[Andy Bee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

My colonist mindset? 😂 Sorry but I just can't take it at all seriously. It's just not something the people of Scotland will relate to at all based on their day to day lives. Why isn't John Swinney or why didn't Humza Yousaf and Nicola Sturgeon really hammer home this colony message? I suspect because people would find it all a bit strange.

I don't disagree, doesn't mean it's not true though. You think we're in an equal voluntary partnership then and if not what word would you use to describe our situation?

[jamie_1875]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I don't disagree, doesn't mean it's not true though. You think we're in an equal voluntary partnership then and if not what word would you use to describe our situation?

From my basic research two kingdoms amalgamated in 1707 to create Great Britain and Scotland has been an active part of creating and developing Great Britain since then. Look at the streets of Glasgow, Jamaica Street which is named after the trading in goods produced by slaves in the West Indies. Many Scots do today and have in the past run things in the UK whether it's the Scottish Prime Ministers or head of armed services etc. I don't think I can put it into a single word sorry.

Wasn't one of the main reasons that Great Britain was created was because Scotland attempted to colonise land in Central America and it was a disaster and made the country bust....also colonies don't secede from their existing state, isn't the entire point of a colony it's not part of the existing state? Scotland is part of the UK so it fails that definition of a colony straight away.

[Hibs4185]

Quite simply, the SNP aren’t putting all their eggs in one basket and going all in on the UN route.

SNP are providing a stable government and aiming for the legal agreement route.

Nothing wrong with covering both bases IMO. SNP go down the boring traditional route and Salvo go down the legal opinion route.

Everyday lives….most people don’t understand the history and facts. Maybe they don’t want to?? Maybe the support unions? That’s fine, that’s democracy.

Unfortunately for yourself and the unionists, the UN will decide if scotland is a colony.


I suspect the status quo might prevail, however every opportunity for independence should be explored.

If you don’t believe in Scotland and its capabilities and think it’s reliant on Westminster, quite frankly you should move to somewhere in England that meets your needs rather than a dependent state

[Hibs4185]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

From my basic research two kingdoms amalgamated in 1707 to create Great Britain and Scotland has been an active part of creating and developing Great Britain since then. Look at the streets of Glasgow, Jamaica Street which is named after the trading in goods produced by slaves in the West Indies. Many Scots do today and have in the past run things in the UK whether it's the Scottish Prime Ministers or head of armed services etc. I don't think I can put it into a single word sorry.

Wasn't one of the main reasons that Great Britain was created was because Scotland attempted to colonise land in Central America and it was a disaster and made the country bust....also colonies don't secede from their existing state, isn't the entire point of a colony it's not part of the existing state? Scotland is part of the UK so it fails that definition of a colony straight away.

Unfortunately for you, basic research is your downfall. As said previously, Robert black is someone who doesn’t partake in basic research and he has found that scotland is a colony.

You can campaign for scotland to be part of the union, that’s your perogative, hopefully in an independent scotland

[jamie_1875]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Quite simply, the SNP aren’t putting all their eggs in one basket and going all in on the UN route.

SNP are providing a stable government and aiming for the legal agreement route.

Nothing wrong with covering both bases IMO. SNP go down the boring traditional route and Salvo go down the legal opinion route.

Everyday lives….most people don’t understand the history and facts. Maybe they don’t want to?? Maybe the support unions? That’s fine, that’s democracy.

Unfortunately for yourself and the unionists, the UN will decide if scotland is a colony.


I suspect the status quo might prevail, however every opportunity for independence should be explored.

If you don’t believe in Scotland and its capabilities and think it’s reliant on Westminster, quite frankly you should move to somewhere in England that meets your needs rather than a dependent state

Jeezo Scottish people should move to England now should they? Just my humble opinion but attitudes like this really don't help Independence.

[jamie_1875]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Unfortunately for you, basic research is your downfall. As said previously, finery black is someone who doesn’t partake in basic research and he has found that scotland is a colony.

You can campaign for scotland to be part of the union, that’s your perogative, hopefully in an independent scotland

I would disagree, Scotland and England came together and hasn't Scotland been an active participant since that day?

[Stairway 2 7]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Irelands position has been evolving over recent years. And as far as they are concerned part of their country is still under occupation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You don't believe in Irelands position and I don't too. I'm not getting involved with the colony pish.

We don't need it Scotland will be independent because of demographics and Tory reform

[jamie_1875]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'm not getting involved with the colony pish.

Wise move as that's exactly what it is.

[J-C]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

From my basic research two kingdoms amalgamated in 1707 to create Great Britain and Scotland has been an active part of creating and developing Great Britain since then. Look at the streets of Glasgow, Jamaica Street which is named after the trading in goods produced by slaves in the West Indies. Many Scots do today and have in the past run things in the UK whether it's the Scottish Prime Ministers or head of armed services etc. I don't think I can put it into a single word sorry.

Wasn't one of the main reasons that Great Britain was created was because Scotland attempted to colonise land in Central America and it was a disaster and made the country bust....also colonies don't secede from their existing state, isn't the entire point of a colony it's not part of the existing state? Scotland is part of the UK so it fails that definition of a colony straight away.

You need to do more reading, problems go further back than 1707 to see the problems in this union, just a pity the people of Scotland had no say in this one sided union.

[jamie_1875]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

You need to do more reading, problems go further back than 1707 to see the problems in this union, just a pity the people of Scotland had no say in this one sided union.

How far back do we go? Do people in 2025 really care about what happened in 1707 or before?

If it's something people want to pursue then great, it's obviously just my opinion but I don't see it achieving anything or going anywhere.

Scotland and England came together in 1707 from a political agreement and it wasn't some colonial takeover or invasion, Scotland kept it's own legal and education systems and many Scottish people actively participated in the development of Great Britain over the years, including creating actual colonies. We had a say in 2014 if we wanted that to continue and we said yes we did. Appreciate that was a while ago now but to suggest we have been in a colony since 1707 or before is just not backed up by the facts.

As I said colonies don't secede from their existing state, the entire point of a colony it's not part of the existing state. Scotland is part of the UK so it fails that definition of a colony straight away.

[Moulin Yarns]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

When Gordon Brown was the PM he was elected the PM of the UK by the people of erm...Dumfermline who live in the supposed colony....

Firstly it's Dunfermline

Secondly he was elected an MP by the people of Dunfermline East and then Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath. They never elected him Prime Minister.


Thirdly, he was the MP for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath when he was leader of the labour party


You would have thought such a great advocate for the labour party in Scotland would have known basic facts. 🤣

[jamie_1875]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Firstly it's Dunfermline

Secondly he was elected an MP by the people of Dunfermline East and then Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath. They never elected him Prime Minister.


Thirdly, he was the MP for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath when he was leader of the labour party


You would have thought such a great advocate for the labour party in Scotland would have known basic facts. 🤣

Ok but doesn't really fit in with the colony belief when the Prime Minister comes from the actual colony. 😂

[grunt]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Ok but doesn't really fit in with the colony belief when the Prime Minister comes from the actual colony. 😂

This is the funniest post of the last few days.

[jamie_1875]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This is the funniest post of the last few days.

Some of yours are classics though. 😂

[Smartie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I would disagree, Scotland and England came together and hasn't Scotland been an active participant since that day?

Scotland has always been an active participant in the union and the union served Scotland’s interests well for centuries. In any other era, I’d be a unionist, hence arguments about being a colony etc leave me cold.

Do you still think Scotland and Scots in general carry the clout they did even just 20 years ago though? I don’t, we’re diminishing and shrinking.

And it’s the present and future that matter much more than the past.

[Moulin Yarns]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Ok but doesn't really fit in with the colony belief when the Prime Minister comes from the actual colony. 😂

So did Boris johnson!! At least it was a former colony that gained it's independence in 1776

[jamie_1875]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Scotland has always been an active participant in the union and the union served Scotland’s interests well for centuries. In any other era, I’d be a unionist, hence arguments about being a colony etc leave me cold.

Do you still think Scotland and Scots in general carry the clout they did even just 20 years ago though? I don’t, we’re diminishing and shrinking.

And it’s the present and future that matter much more than the past.

I think it depends on what you mean by clout? The people of Scotland had the ability to basically end the UK as we know it 11 years ago, that's carrying some clout isn't it? Almost the ultimate clout?

Does the lack of perceived clout as you say not align with devolution, we are in control of the things that matter in Scotland like Health and Education etc and that's decided at our Parliament which also gives us clout but within the current constitutional agreements though.

Probably one for the Reform thread but it's a little ironic the one thing that may help Independence and push people towards it is Reform and Nigel Farage, and the SNP are doing all they can to "Stop Reform" and stop Farage...(If I was an SNP strategist I would just let them get on with it)

[The Tubs]

I definitely think there's an English hostility to Scottish Prime Ministers, even during peak Britishness in the first half of the 20th century. What's the longest a Scot has lasted as Prime Minister, excluding Tony Blair? Has one ever won a general election?

[The Tubs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I definitely think there's an English hostility to Scottish Prime Ministers, even during peak Britishness in the first half of the 20th century. What's the longest a Scot has lasted as Prime Minister, excluding Tony Blair? Has one ever won a general election?

I'll answer my 2nd question: Ramsay McDonald. Campbell-Bannerman too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom_by_b irthplace

[grunt]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Some of yours are classics though. 😂

Thank you. I try my best.

[J-C]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

How far back do we go? Do people in 2025 really care about what happened in 1707 or before?

If it's something people want to pursue then great, it's obviously just my opinion but I don't see it achieving anything or going anywhere.

Scotland and England came together in 1707 from a political agreement and it wasn't some colonial takeover or invasion, Scotland kept it's own legal and education systems and many Scottish people actively participated in the development of Great Britain over the years, including creating actual colonies. We had a say in 2014 if we wanted that to continue and we said yes we did. Appreciate that was a while ago now but to suggest we have been in a colony since 1707 or before is just not backed up by the facts.

As I said colonies don't secede from their existing state, the entire point of a colony it's not part of the existing state. Scotland is part of the UK so it fails that definition of a colony straight away.

Scotland and England were separate for many years after the joining of the crown by James VI/I with England trying many times to join the 2 parliaments, 1707 happened due to Scotland's money men losing nearly all their money on the Darien scheme and they went cap in hand to the English to help them out, joining of the parliaments was the answer. Funnily enough there were riots in all of Scotland's major cities at the time with the people very angry it was happening. The countries themselves never joined together but only the parliaments, hence we still have our own legal system, education etc.

[Hibs4185]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Scotland and England were separate for many years after the joining of the crown by James VI/I with England trying many times to join the 2 parliaments, 1707 happened due to Scotland's money men losing nearly all their money on the Darien scheme and they went cap in hand to the English to help them out, joining of the parliaments was the answer. Funnily enough there were riots in all of Scotland's major cities at the time with the people very angry it was happening. The countries themselves never joined together but only the parliaments, hence we still have our own legal system, education etc.

Therein lies the problem. Scotland lost its parliament but England never did. The English system continued but with 49 scottish MP’s.

Both parliaments were supposed to be abolished and a new one created. Scotland and England were supposed to become the United Kingdonw/Great Britain but it only became that in name, the English parliament continued as before.

Also scotland had its own treaties with different countries around the world which were all abolished. Guess what, the new United Kingdom, got rid of the scottish treaties and kept the English ones.

In essence, England absorbed Scotland into its system and kept everything the same. Not what was agreed in the act of union.

[jamie_1875]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Therein lies the problem. Scotland lost its parliament but England never did. The English system continued but with 49 scottish MP’s.

Both parliaments were supposed to be abolished and a new one created. Scotland and England were supposed to become the United Kingdonw/Great Britain but it only became that in name, the English parliament continued as before.

Also scotland had its own treaties with different countries around the world which were all abolished. Guess what, the new United Kingdom, got rid of the scottish treaties and kept the English ones.

In essence, England absorbed Scotland into its system and kept everything the same. Not what was agreed in the act of union.

I am not sure that's true, the Scottish and English parliaments were both abolished and a new Parliament of Great Britain created.

https://www.parliament.scot/about/history-of-the-scottish-parliament

"The original Parliament of Scotland (or "Estates of Scotland") was the national law maker of the independent Kingdom of Scotland. It existed from the early 13th century until 1707. This was when the Kingdom of Scotland merged with the Kingdom of England under the Acts of Union 1707 to form the Kingdom of Great Britain. Because of this, the Parliament of Scotland was closed and a Parliament of Great Britain was created, at Westminster in London."

To be honest I am not sure many people in 2025 really care though. Unless you are suggesting the Scottish Parliament website is incorrect?

[Berwickhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Therein lies the problem. Scotland lost its parliament but England never did. The English system continued but with 49 scottish MP’s.

Both parliaments were supposed to be abolished and a new one created. Scotland and England were supposed to become the United Kingdonw/Great Britain but it only became that in name, the English parliament continued as before.

Also scotland had its own treaties with different countries around the world which were all abolished. Guess what, the new United Kingdom, got rid of the scottish treaties and kept the English ones.

In essence, England absorbed Scotland into its system and kept everything the same. Not what was agreed in the act of union.

We did not agree to anything, as per history the wealthy and the nobles of the time decided what was best for them and us peasants and serfs were expected to know our place. It’s still occurring today as the mega wealthy are in charge, controlling the media and feeding various distractions to keep the classes bickering whilst they the fleece everyone and increase their wealth.

[jamie_1875]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

We did not agree to anything, as per history the wealthy and the nobles of the time decided what was best for them and us peasants and serfs were expected to know our place. It’s still occurring today as the mega wealthy are in charge, controlling the media and feeding various distractions to keep the classes bickering whilst they the fleece everyone and increase their wealth.

Wasn't that wrong put right in 2014? The people of Scotland were asked what they wanted.

[Callum_62]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Wasn't that wrong put right in 2014? The people of Scotland were asked what they wanted.

"now is not the time" for 300 years

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[Berwickhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Wasn't that wrong put right in 2014? The people of Scotland were asked what they wanted.

Wasn’t wrong, it’s actually democracy in action, just some don’t agree with the democratic result.