Scottish Independence

[grunt]

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Rayner on independence:

Labour's Angela Rayner sets out opposition to second IndyRef | STV News

"Leaving us to perpetual Conservatism at Westminster is not very nice…but actually having a Labour government could make all the difference.”

The deputy Labour leader also outlined the importance of Scotland.

She added: “Scotland is absolutely key, it’s key to Manchester, it’s key to the whole of the United Kingdom.

1. She thinks that Labour needs the SNP in Westminster to allow Labour to get into power. She's wrong.

2. She wants Scotland in the UK because of our natural resources; not because she values the Scottish people, she values the oil and water we have. In this regard she's as bad as the Tories.

[grunt]

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What Quebec can teach us about Scotland’s future if SNP’s independence gambit fails, by Mark McGeoghegan | HeraldScotland

I like this guy's sentiments but at present I fear it's wishful thinking...

You're right, it is wishful thinking on his part.
I couldn't put it better than this comment on the article:

There are a lot of differences between Scotland and Quebec, most of which are obvious. The most important one is that Quebec didn't have a dysfunctional narrow-minded, right-wing, near-fascist state as its neighbour, instead it had a properly functioning centrist democracy which was worth staying with as far as enough voters were concerned.

[Ozyhibby]

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Rayner on independence:

Labour's Angela Rayner sets out opposition to second IndyRef | STV News

She doesn’t actually make a case for the union being better for Scotland, does she?


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[He's here!]

How the next Prime Minister should deal with Nicola Sturgeon:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...icola-sturgeon

[grunt]

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How the next Prime Minister should deal with Nicolas turgeon:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...icola-sturgeon

That is such an incredibly stupid article I can't even begin to respond. Stupid.

Other than to say, if this is the quality of commentator who is supporting the union, we'll have no problem gaining independence.

Seriously, what a dumb article.

[Berwickhibby]

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How the next Prime Minister should deal with Nicolas turgeon:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...icola-sturgeon

You spelled Turdgeon wron

[grunt]

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You spelled Turdgeon wron

Age: 59

[Berwickhibby]

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Age: 59

It was done intentionally as HH missed a letter ….whoosh

[Smartie]

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How the next Prime Minister should deal with Nicolas turgeon:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...icola-sturgeon

I disagree with the very premise that Nicola Sturgeon is someone who needs "dealt with".

The only future for the union is if the totally opposite approach is taken (funnily enough, I thought this was possibly the actual gist of the article albeit it was hidden amongst so much pish it was difficult to make out) - by respecting devolution, by respecting the FM, by respecting the people of Scotland and having a union that is beneficial and effortless as it is so clearly in the interests of all parties.

Pigs will fly before we ever get that (mainly due to the attitudes of those South of the border and in particular those who are likely to be minded to write and read articles like this one).

[lapsedhibee]

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How the next Prime Minister should deal with Nicolas turgeon:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...icola-sturgeon

Ambushed at Bute House, ambushed with a cake. Johnson as victim

[grunt]

Jan Moir (?) in the Mail today. I'll not link to it, but you can find it if you wish.

Describes SNP voters thus:

In the minds of many, the average SNP voter is someone crimson-faced and bald, wearing a small wiry moustache and a stained anorak while shouting about Scotland's oil as they load bargain biscuits into an Asda trolley. The men are even worse.

Is she following me around Asda?

[Ozyhibby]

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Jan Moir (?) in the Mail today. I'll not link to it, but you can find it if you wish.

Describes SNP voters thus:



Is she following me around Asda?

This approach to saving the union is fantastic for Indy. Keep insulting Scottish people.


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[grunt]

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The only future for the union is if the totally opposite approach is taken (funnily enough, I thought this was possibly the actual gist of the article albeit it was hidden amongst so much pish it was difficult to make out) - by respecting devolution, by respecting the FM, by respecting the people of Scotland and having a union that is beneficial and effortless as it is so clearly in the interests of all parties.

Pigs will fly before we ever get that (mainly due to the attitudes of those South of the border and in particular those who are likely to be minded to write and read articles like this one).

You're absolutely right, the article did get round to this sensible solution. One of the stupid things about it was the complete lack (as you point out) of any recognition in the article of the chance of that happening given the attitude from the Tories over the last many years. We are 180 degrees and several light years away from a sensible approach to the SNP by those at Westminster.

[He's here!]

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I disagree with the very premise that Nicola Sturgeon is someone who needs "dealt with".

The only future for the union is if the totally opposite approach is taken (funnily enough, I thought this was possibly the actual gist of the article albeit it was hidden amongst so much pish it was difficult to make out) - by respecting devolution, by respecting the FM, by respecting the people of Scotland and having a union that is beneficial and effortless as it is so clearly in the interests of all parties.

Pigs will fly before we ever get that (mainly due to the attitudes of those South of the border and in particular those who are likely to be minded to write and read articles like this one).

What about if the UK government apply themselves to making policy that finds favour with more Scottish voters? Why would that not be a future for the union? They'd be ill-advised not to at least try. Pigs will fly before the more entrenched nationalist core have any truck with that but voters with less fixed mindsets are always open to reason.

As even Sturgeon admitted the other day nobody can predict what the next few years hold.

[Ozyhibby]

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What about if the UK government apply themselves to making policy that finds favour with more Scottish voters? Why would that not be a future for the union? They'd be ill-advised not to at least try. Pigs will fly before the more entrenched nationalist core have any truck with that but voters with less fixed mindsets are always open to reason.

As even Sturgeon admitted the other day nobody can predict what the next few years hold.

When was the last time they tried? And even if they don’t, we just have to suck it up because the south of England will always be where the votes are.


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[grunt]

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... voters with less fixed mindsets are always open to reason.

Let's hope so!

[Kato]

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What about if the UK government apply themselves to making policy that finds favour with more Scottish voters?

...and the chances of this are....



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[ronaldo7]

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She doesn’t actually make a case for the union being better for Scotland, does she?


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No, she doesn't. She doesn't really care as long as we're looking after people in Ashton-under-lyne, wherever that is.

[grunt]

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No, she doesn't. She doesn't really care as long as we're looking after people in Ashton-under-lyne, wherever that is.

It's her constituency. Manchester somewhere.

[ronaldo7]

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It's her constituency. Manchester somewhere.

Is that not her job to do that then. 😳

[Ozyhibby]

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No, she doesn't. She doesn't really care as long as we're looking after people in Ashton-under-lyne, wherever that is.

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It's her constituency. Manchester somewhere.

So what she is really saying is that keeping Scotland is good for England?


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[Smartie]

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What about if the UK government apply themselves to making policy that finds favour with more Scottish voters? Why would that not be a future for the union? They'd be ill-advised not to at least try. Pigs will fly before the more entrenched nationalist core have any truck with that but voters with less fixed mindsets are always open to reason.

As even Sturgeon admitted the other day nobody can predict what the next few years hold.

Yep, they can start doing that absolutely any time they like.

The logical arguments for independence dissolve when that happens and you're left with the flag stuff. Emotional and identity issues are to be respected and not sniffed at imo, but they don't stand up on their own.

[grunt]

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What about if the UK government apply themselves to making policy that finds favour with more Scottish voters?

Such a little word, "if". Such a powerful little word.

[degenerated]

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Jan Moir (?) in the Mail today. I'll not link to it, but you can find it if you wish.

Describes SNP voters thus:



Is she following me around Asda?

Jan Moir is a thoroughly horrible human being. Some of the stuff she writes is just dreadful. I'm no fan of the royal family at all but her hatchet job on Diana Spencer in the mail when she died was utterly despicable. I'm sure she did a homophobic piece on Stephen gately when he died too.

Even by Daily Heil standards she is vile.

[grunt]

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What Quebec can teach us about Scotland’s future if SNP’s independence gambit fails, by Mark McGeoghegan | HeraldScotland

Mark McGeoghegan has had a similar article published in The Times. However, he has disagreed with the Times' interpretation of his own article!

[marinello59]

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So what she is really saying is that keeping Scotland is good for England?


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She is talking about working class solidarity.

[Ozyhibby]

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She is talking about working class solidarity.

Can’t we have working class solidarity with working class people in the EU?


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[Skol]

I find the whole situation depressing.

The U.K. government are just a shambles with no idea what to do. Their every move makes things worse in Scotland and they have no idea how we feel or why.

In Scotland we are split down the middle and disagreeing with each other. The leadership in Scotland is not good either and works on the basis of being both in power and opposition and no matter how bad can always point at the tories being worse.

It’s hard to see how we improve things either way without some bold action. But what and by whom.

[Ozyhibby]

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I find the whole situation depressing.

The U.K. government are just a shambles with no idea what to do. Their every move makes things worse in Scotland and they have no idea how we feel or why.

In Scotland we are split down the middle and disagreeing with each other. The leadership in Scotland is not good either and works on the basis of being both in power and opposition and no matter how bad can always point at the tories being worse.

It’s hard to see how we improve things either way without some bold action. But what and by whom.

Independence is how we make a start on improving things. Right now, we can’t do anything because we have to wait on England changing our govt for us.


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[grunt]

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In Scotland we are split down the middle and disagreeing with each other. The leadership in Scotland is not good either and works on the basis of being both in power and opposition and no matter how bad can always point at the tories being worse.

NICOLA Sturgeon is the most popular politician in Scotland by far, according to the latest polling from Redfield and Wilton Strategies.

Nicola Sturgeon is best performing party leader, says UK-wide poll