Vaccine Passports for Easter Road

[hibsbollah]

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Your not in the minority, seem to be on this site, but literally hundreds of protests all over the world been going on over the use of ‘passports’ as it’s morally and ethically wrong and coercive in nature.

Coercion isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Traffic lights involve a degree of coercion.

[RoscoHibby]

I’ve not got the time or the will for this atm. Im out. Out of going to ER as well it seems.

[CentreLine]

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There are more people in hospital who are single or double dose vaccinated than those who are unvaccinated. That is of course more due to age and underlying health issues but it is important because those who are choosing to not be vaccinated are being demonised and called selfish etc. Those who are vaccinated may be more likely to socialise and go out so it may be they are just as or more selfish that those that are unvaccinated. Anyone who wants to go to ER because they are vaccinated and wants to stops others doing so because they refuse to carry a bit of paper(you can still be vaccinated but want it to be kept private like your other medical history) is surely being selfish too. The numbers in hospital must show that vaccinated people are taking risks so if they are and they have a chance, albeit reduced, then they are also posing a risk for others. Those in hospital who are vaccinated have actually caught Covid so they clearly took some chances and that would have impacted on others.

So much wrong with that argument. Of the 10,128+ people who were recorded as having died yesterday with covid, likely every one of them would prefer to have had the improved chances that a vaccine offers. Some
Will have been vaccinated but no vaccine is 100% effective. Nobody has suggested they are.
The reality of the situation is that governments and health specialists across the world are doing their best to create a situation where Covid-19 moves from Pandemic to Endemic. People will still die in tragical high numbers but the virus will no longer pose a threat to the continued existence of humans on the planet. That is reflected in numbers we are seeing hospitalised and dying here in thenUK where over 80% of the population have taken the opportunity to to receive the vaccine. Currently vaccine is our best hope of achieving that Endemic reality.

Perversely, there are equally bright people employed by governments across the world to create the means to destroy human life in huge numbers. We call it defence but that’s another argument

[Stairway 2 7]

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Can you explain why my own bodies response to having it would be less effective than being double jagged when the jags are basically doing the same thing as my body has done and cause the production of antibodies?

I'm genuinely intrigued to see if there is something I have completely missed.

This touches on the fact that they are still classed as experimental however is now a month old:
https://www.science.org/news/2021/07/when-will-covid-19-vaccines-be-fully-approved-and-does-it-matter-if-they-are

It's been fully approved by the cdc and will be by the eu by the end of the month uk will follow suit

[cookin_on_gaz]

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I’ve not got the time or the will for this atm. Im out. Out of going to ER as well it seems.

Same here, I love going to Easter Road but now looks as tho I won’t be back.


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[Stairway 2 7]

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Is the W.H.O mainstream enough for you?

No need to be such a tool about your reply either, I'm already vaccinated and my pals are able enough to think for themselves. You should try it sometime yourself.

Recently, a radically new approach to vaccination has been developed. It involves the direct introduction into appropriate tissues of a plasmid containing the DNA sequence encoding the antigen(s) against which an immune response is sought, and relies on the in situ production of the target antigen. This approach offers a number of potential advantages over traditional approaches, including the stimulation of both B- and T-cell responses, improved vaccine stability, the absence of any infectious agent and the relative ease of large-scale manufacture. As proof of the principle of DNA vaccination, immune responses in animals have been obtained using genes from a variety of infectious agents, including influenza virus, hepatitis B virus, human immunodeficiency virus, rabies virus, lymphocytic chorio-meningitis virus, malarial parasites and mycoplasmas. In some cases, protection from disease in animals has also been obtained. However, the value and advantages of DNA vaccines must be assessed on a case-by-case basis and their applicability will depend on the nature of the agent being immunized against, the nature of the antigen and the type of immune response required for protection.

The field of DNA vaccination is developing rapidly. Vaccines currently being developed use not only DNA, but also include adjuncts that assist DNA to enter cells, target it towards specific cells, or that may act as adjuvants in stimulating or directing the immune response. Ultimately, the distinction between a sophisticated DNA vaccine and a simple viral vector may not be clear. Many aspects of the immune response generated by DNA vaccines are not understood. However, this has not impeded significant progress towards the use of this type of vaccine in humans, and clinical trials have begun.

The first such vaccines licensed for marketing are likely to use plasmid DNA derived from bacterial cells. In future, others may use RNA or may use complexes of nucleic acid molecules and other entities. These guidelines address the production and control of vaccines based on plasmid DNA intended for use in humans. The purpose of these guidelines is to indicate:

appropriate methods for the production and control of plasmid DNA vaccines; and
specific information that should be included in submissions by manufacturers to national control authorities in support of applications for the authorization of clinical trials and marketing.
It is recognized that the development and application of nucleic acid vaccines are evolving rapidly. Thus, their control should be approached in a flexible manner so that it can be modified as experience is gained in production and use. The intention of these guidelines is to provide a scientifically sound basis for the production and control of DNA vaccines intended for use in humans, and to assure their consistent ssafety and efficacy. Individual countries may wish to use these guidelines to develop their own national guidelines for DNA vaccines

Vaccine Quality
Related Health Topics
Treatments: drugs, medicines and procedures
Biologicals
Prevention & Safety
Vaccines and immunization
https://www.who.int/teams/health-pro...es-quality/dna

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/victoriaforster/2021/01/11/covid-19-vaccines-cant-alter-your-dna-heres-why/amp/

This is a great article on the misconceptions around mrna dna started by actual antivax loons

[Stairway 2 7]

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Same. Fully vaxxed but have deep concerns about the "passport" so will probably forego football and large events if that is the only way to get in. I don't see what purpose the document serves in the fight against covid other than data collection for God knows whom.

Have you got a mobile phone do you use the Internet.. its pretty mad that people don't think all of our information isn't already out there

[hibbyfraelibby]

I think if nothing else this thread has proved that they still walk amongst us...😉

[Ronniekirk]

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I am not antivax, I would not try and influence anyone else's decision to have it or not. I would just rather wait until a bit more research is done into this. I get that the majority think my views are stupid and I have already said that I am willing to deal with not being allowed into events etc. I will continue with the antibody trial I am doing and at the end of that or when other information comes available then I may get it.

I do think that any sort of vaccine passport is starting on a slippery slope though but again I realise I'm in the minority with that.

Plenty Tory M Ps are against any form of vaccine passport


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[Selkirkhibs]

Personally, I couldn't wait for the vaccines and took up the offer of them as soon as they were offered. However, I don't think folk should be forced into having them if they want to attend events etc. I would hope those who are unable to attend Easter Road would not seek a refund or stop putting their money into the club as its not Hibs fault that they can't attend.

[nonshinyfinish]

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It's been fully approved by the cdc and will be by the eu by the end of the month uk will follow suit

The FDA, not the CDC.

[degenerated]

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Bottom of page 41 paraphrasing as couldn't copy it 'since 10 May 2021 a larger proportion of Covid 19 related acute admissions have occurred in unvaccinated populations than populations with one of two doses'.

And if you look at that statistically it will be a much higher frequency as there are many times more vaccinated than unvaccinated.
For the numbers just now you would need to multiply the number of unvaccinated people in hospital by about 7 or 8 to have a meaningful comparison.

[007]

I prefer to listen to doctors and nurses on the front line than unknown sources on Facebook.

https://youtu.be/PmmelWHeAKc

[degenerated]

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There are more people in hospital who are single or double dose vaccinated than those who are unvaccinated. That is of course more due to age and underlying health issues but it is important because those who are choosing to not be vaccinated are being demonised and called selfish etc. Those who are vaccinated may be more likely to socialise and go out so it may be they are just as or more selfish that those that are unvaccinated. Anyone who wants to go to ER because they are vaccinated and wants to stops others doing so because they refuse to carry a bit of paper(you can still be vaccinated but want it to be kept private like your other medical history) is surely being selfish too. The numbers in hospital must show that vaccinated people are taking risks so if they are and they have a chance, albeit reduced, then they are also posing a risk for others. Those in hospital who are vaccinated have actually caught Covid so they clearly took some chances and that would have impacted on others.

For every unvaccinated person there are 8 who are, based on those eligible for it, therefore of course there will be more of them hospitalised.

There's a lot less dying now though, isn't there?

[Ronniekirk]

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Cheers, it’ll be tough convincing fans to get fully vaccinated for entry into stadiums when players aren’t.

Elite athletes got all these exemptions during lockdown Would be interesting to hear why so many haven’t been vaccinated
Role Models for younger people
It’s an interesting one


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[degenerated]

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Coercion isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Traffic lights involve a degree of coercion.

It's the big note fine and 3 points on the licence that's the coercion

[Peevemor]

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Your not in the minority, seem to be on this site, but literally hundreds of protests all over the world been going on over the use of ‘passports’ as it’s morally and ethically wrong and coercive in nature.

I've already posted this elsewhere, but there are a fair number of people (I don't know what proportion) who have taken part in the protests in France who are fully vaccinated but are against the principle of Covid passports.

I was vaccinated pretty much ASAP, but my wife had her second jag only this week and very much against her will. Our GP, despite being signed off for 3-4 months after catching Covid, still advises against vaccination.

For what it's worth I don't think the science is as black & white as governments the world over would have us believe, but neither do I think it's as risky as others are saying. The civil liberties thing is another question.

It really isn't easy.

[007]

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I've already posted this elsewhere, but there are a fair number of people (I don't know what proportion) who have taken part in the protests in France who are fully vaccinated but are against the principle of Covid passports.

I was vaccinated pretty much ASAP, but my wife had her second jag only this week and very much against her will. Our GP, despite being signed off for 3-4 months after catching Covid, still advises against vaccination.

For what it's worth I don't think the science is as black & white as governments the world over would have us believe, but neither do I think it's as risky as others are saying. The civil liberties thing is another question.

It really isn't easy.

I'd be looking for a new GP.

[Northernhibee]

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I've already posted this elsewhere, but there are a fair number of people (I don't know what proportion) who have taken part in the protests in France who are fully vaccinated but are against the principle of Covid passports.

I was vaccinated pretty much ASAP, but my wife had her second jag only this week and very much against her will. Our GP, despite being signed off for 3-4 months after catching Covid, still advises against vaccination.

For what it's worth I don't think the science is as black & white as governments the world over would have us believe, but neither do I think it's as risky as others are saying. The civil liberties thing is another question.

It really isn't easy.

Your GP should be sacked.

[green day]

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I've already posted this elsewhere, but there are a fair number of people (I don't know what proportion) who have taken part in the protests in France who are fully vaccinated but are against the principle of Covid passports.

I was vaccinated pretty much ASAP, but my wife had her second jag only this week and very much against her will. Our GP, despite being signed off for 3-4 months after catching Covid, still advises against vaccination.

For what it's worth I don't think the science is as black & white as governments the world over would have us believe, but neither do I think it's as risky as others are saying. The civil liberties thing is another question.

It really isn't easy.

Someone said to Macron the other week "how can you ignore 250000 people protesting about the pass sanitaire"

His answer? "More than 250000 people will receive a vaccine today"

And as for your doctor, they need to have a look at vaccine side effects v coronavirus effects - they can do that while looking for another job.

[CentreLine]

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I'd be looking for a new GP.

Yeh, my sister’s husband was a GP and 100% pro smoking. Figured it was great for stress. Such a WWII period belief

[SQHib]

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Can you please tell me the benefits of having this then having already had covid? Is there a measurable difference in protection provided? Or is it just a case of it shouldn't do any harm so get it to get a passport?

I've changed your argument from a covid vaccine to something else that you are asked to do to reduce the risk to your health and the health of others ....a seatbelt ... do you still agree ?

Can you please tell me the benefits of wearing a seatbelt then having already had a car crash ? Is there a measurable difference in protection provided? Or is it just a case of it shouldn't do any harm so wear a seat belt ?

[ElginHibbie]

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That’s simply not the case.

Latest data: https://publichealthscotland.scot/me...ion_report.pdf

Scroll to page 40.

Although I even take this with a pinch of salt due to the efficacy of the tests and the well known false positive figures..but admissions to hospital is the real bottom line for me.

All that shows that if those 153 were all vaccinated less of them would be in hospital, probably less than half of them in fact

Now some will have real medical reasons not to get a vaccine, but I’d guess most don’t and it’s their choices that are adding to the NHS strain unnecessarily

[Peevemor]

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I'd be looking for a new GP.

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Your GP should be sacked.

To be fair this isn't his public stance - my wife is pretty friendly with him (kids/school connections).

In saying that one of the things he's brought up in relation to the vaccines is the long term risk of prion diseases (CJD, Alzheimer's etc.). I thought that these claims had been shown as false but, according to him, apparently not. I'm sorry but I'm not qualified to argue medicine with a GP - especially in French.

[the tornadoe]

If NO-ONE is allowed in the stadium without a vaccine passport will that include players ?

[wookie70]

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And if you look at that statistically it will be a much higher frequency as there are many times more vaccinated than unvaccinated.
For the numbers just now you would need to multiply the number of unvaccinated people in hospital by about 7 or 8 to have a meaningful comparison.

Too simplistic due to the age profiles of those in hospital and those who are vaccinated. Most higher proportion of vaccinated people are over 30 and they are more likely to be struck harder by covid, vaccinated or not.

For all I am arguing about the Passport I have no issue with saying the vaccine is effective and hope most will take it(they have in far larger numbers than ever anticipated). Barring the younger generations we probably have went beyond the herd immunity that was always planned.

This, for me, is about people being excluded from events and proof being required to enter. This isn't Facebook or Google collecting data this is our government excluding citizens from events on the basis of choices they have made. I get the argument that it is safer for vaccinated people to gather in groups and I get the fact that you can't make it black or white. There are more questions than answers for me in terms of where the line has been drawn and what the proof is behind large outdoor events being major spreaders. Schools and colleges should all be closed again if the Government are that bothered about numbers of cases. Make it mandatory for vaccinations rather than coercing if it is for the greater good.

It has been asked before in the thread but not sure it has been answered. Why would someone who is medically exempt be allowed into a game without being vaccinated while someone who simply chose not to be vaccinated is excluded. They both pose the same risk to others. In deed what is the criteria for exemption, is there one and how do you qualify, is it self-certification like many equalities issues are?

It will be a hard choice for me if the rule is brought in. I'm double vaxxed but I may decide to ask for a ST refund if I need to prove I am. The bit of paper doesn't make me less likely to infect anyone else. I see it as a slippery slope and Governments will see how easily they can withdraw freedoms looking at this thread they have won that battle already.

[CentreLine]

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To be fair this isn't his public stance - my wife is pretty friendly with him (kids/school connections).

In saying that one of the things he's brought up in relation to the vaccines is the long term risk of prion diseases (CJD, Alzheimer's etc.). I thought that these claims had been shown as false but, according to him, apparently not. I'm sorry but I'm not qualified to argue medicine with a GP - especially in French.

Which brings us right back to heading the football 😏
At last a football subject on a football forum

[degenerated]

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Too simplistic due to the age profiles of those in hospital and those who are vaccinated. Most higher proportion of vaccinated people are over 30 and they are more likely to be struck harder by covid, vaccinated or not.

For all I am arguing about the Passport I have no issue with saying the vaccine is effective and hope most will take it(they have in far larger numbers than ever anticipated). Barring the younger generations we probably have went beyond the herd immunity that was always planned.

This, for me, is about people being excluded from events and proof being required to enter. This isn't Facebook or Google collecting data this is our government excluding citizens from events on the basis of choices they have made. I get the argument that it is safer for vaccinated people to gather in groups and I get the fact that you can't make it black or white. There are more questions than answers for me in terms of where the line has been drawn and what the proof is behind large outdoor events being major spreaders. Schools and colleges should all be closed again if the Government are that bothered about numbers of cases. Make it mandatory for vaccinations rather than coercing if it is for the greater good.

It has been asked before in the thread but not sure it has been answered. Why would someone who is medically exempt be allowed into a game without being vaccinated while someone who simply chose not to be vaccinated is excluded. They both pose the same risk to others. In deed what is the criteria for exemption, is there one and how do you qualify, is it self-certification like many equalities issues are?

It will be a hard choice for me if the rule is brought in. I'm double vaxxed but I may decide to ask for a ST refund if I need to prove I am. The bit of paper doesn't make me less likely to infect anyone else. I see it as a slippery slope and Governments will see how easily they can withdraw freedoms looking at this thread they have won that battle already.

My view would be that if medically exempt then proof of a negative test result should suffice.

[green day]

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To be fair this isn't his public stance - my wife is pretty friendly with him (kids/school connections).

In saying that one of the things he's brought up in relation to the vaccines is the long term risk of prion diseases (CJD, Alzheimer's etc.). I thought that these claims had been shown as false but, according to him, apparently not. I'm sorry but I'm not qualified to argue medicine with a GP - especially in French.

He (and nobody) has data to support that stance - we are only 18 months into the development of these vaccines.

However, his stance is pretty consistent with anti vax pish spouted in France and elsewhere - make a claim that cant be refuted (as there is no evidence one way or the other) and then go "aha - so you cant say it wont happen".

Guy is clearly a fud.

[BlackSheep]

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As has been said, companies are snooping on you all the time.

Use Google = data.

Facebook account = data

Shop online = data

Sainsburys Nectar card = data

Use your debit card = data

Pretty sure the nefarious data miners already know that you are a Hibernian Fan.

J

It baffles me how naive so many are about this.

I always point this out to folk who are worried about data collection.

1. If you have an iPhone… it’s listening to you, at all times… if you have an Alexa, same, Google home, ditto…. And how do we know this… cos they’re all waiting on a key phrase being spoken in order for them to ‘serve us’.

2. Google maps traffic data…. How do you think they can tell how busy the roads are? Simple, they’re collecting data from every WiFi/Cellular connected device and analysing that devices speed, direction, etc to determine if the device is in a vehicle… the uses the gps of the device and groups it with other Google activated devices to determine the traffic load.

You’d have to live completely off the grid these days not to be data tracked most of your day.

That said… what are most folk worried about… just what can the data they mine do to affect your life?