Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Keith_M]

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If they have received such legal advice then surely they would have no problem publishing it?
I really think we are heading for another cover up here.

That's been my view all along of what would happen, and the statements coming out now are leading toward that.

[JeMeSouviens]

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To answer the earlier question about what would be achieved.


As a Football Fan, I want to know the competitions my team takes part in have the same rules for all participating clubs. For example if one club can be ejected from a Cup Competition for having one improperly registered player, then all clubs should be subject to the same rules, otherwise the whole thing is unfair. In the case of Rangers, they had multiple improperly registered players over a number of years (side-letter contracts).

Even if you consider the current Rangers to be a new club, then retrospective stripping of titles is still necessary, to send out a message that when the rules are broken, the punishment will be meted out, regadless of who the club is.


If there are rules for some clubs and different rules for others, then we might as well just give up the whole thing.

tbh, the fact that there were different rules (and in fact new rules had to be made up on the hoof) for the New Rangers as compared to Gretna 2008 and Airdrie United, pretty much makes that the rational conclusion already.

[green day]

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To answer the earlier question about what would be achieved.


As a Football Fan, I want to know the competitions my team takes part in have the same rules for all participating clubs. For example if one club can be ejected from a Cup Competition for having one improperly registered player, then all clubs should be subject to the same rules, otherwise the whole thing is unfair. In the case of Rangers, they had multiple improperly registered players over a number of years (side-letter contracts).

Even if you consider the current Rangers to be a new club, then retrospective stripping of titles is still necessary, to send out a message that when the rules are broken, the punishment will be meted out, regadless of who the club is.


If there are rules for some clubs and different rules for others, then we might as well just give up the whole thing.

Did the Spartans ejection not happen during the tournament though?

And can it be done years after - ie does that rule exist?

I suspect those are the questions being posed - as much as "is it the right thing to do".

[marinello59]

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There are rules that allow title stripping. Happy to go after the yams as well but there is no evidence against them out in the public domain.


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I'll take your word for that, I really have no idea. What did the SPL rules say at the time?
You may be happy to go after the Yams as most Hibs fans would be but the fans of other clubs generally couldn't care less about their cheating.

[Keith_M]

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Did the Spartans ejection not happen during the tournament though?

And can it be done years after - ie does that rule exist?

I suspect those are the questions being posed - as much as "is it the right thing to do".

What does it matter when it was discovered?

If a crime is covered up well by the perpetrator and the police find out years after, do they just shrug their shoulders and say "oh well, we didn't know about it"?

A crime has still been comitted and they can still arrest and prosecute the people that did wrong.

The alternative is to assume that those covering up their crimes or misdemeanours should just be forgiven, for being clever enough to hide it well at the time.

[greenginger]

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There are rules that allow title stripping. Happy to go after the yams as well but there is no evidence against them out in the public domain.


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I think wee Rudi's private deal with Vlad is a stick on if the payments were made by Heart's parent company UBIG but not included on Skacel's contract.

Call first witness , self-sufficient Southern , now of Dundee United.

[lord bunberry]

Budge saying that there's going to be a statement on Wednesday and in her words "that will hopefully be an end to it" doesn't suggest to me that any further action will be taken.

[Ozyhibby]

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I think wee Rudi's private deal with Vlad is a stick on if the payments were made by Heart's parent company UBIG but not included on Skacel's contract.

Call first witness , self-sufficient Southern , now of Dundee United.

If we go after Rangers, then a bit of whataboutery might bring this into play.


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[green day]

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What does it matter when it was discovered?

If a crime is covered up well by the perpetrator and the police find out years after, do they just shrug their shoulders and say "oh well, we didn't know about it"?

A crime has still been comitted and they can still arrest and prosecute the people that did wrong.

The alternative is to assume that those covering up their crimes or misdemeanours should just be forgiven, for being clever enough to hide it well at the time.

There is a difference between criminalnlaw and the rules of a sporting competition, and I doubt (would put my house on it) that they are remotely close.

Just because plod can go after criminals years after doesn't mean Scottish fitba has a rule saying titles can be stripped.

I will be delighted to be proved wrong.

[Ozyhibby]

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There is a difference between criminalnlaw and the rules of a sporting competition, and I doubt (would put my house on it) that they are remotely close.

Just because plod can go after criminals years after doesn't mean Scottish fitba has a rule saying titles can be stripped.

I will be delighted to be proved wrong.

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[brog]

There is one great irony in all of this in that Sevco fans for years have claimed they were robbed of winning the 1st Champions League because Marseille cheated by bribing the opposition. Although this was never proved it was confirmed that Marseille had bribed to win a French league match & they were retroactively stripped of the title, see, it can be done! Incidentally, the league title was offered to PSG but they turned it down. All this stuff about who should benefit if Sevco lose their titles is a red herring. No one needs to benefit but teams who cheat should not be rewarded for their skullduggery.

[Malthibby]

They cheated for years & it has been proven that they cheated for years.
We are well used to institutional bias in Scottish Football, but I was stupid enough to think
that things were improving. If Sevco walk away from this it reinforces all that's wrong with
our football institutions, and it will reinforce the reality of a system which has completely
different rules for certain clubs.
I love watching Hibs, the cup win was one of the best days of my life, but what is the point if
we collude with a corrupt, self-serving system which is designed to multiply the advantages
of a team like Sevco?
Cycling removed the Tour de France titles Armstrong cheated to win, &
it's so much the better for it. Removing old Rangers titles would say that cheating will be
punished, not rewarded. What are we telling the kids otherwise?

[ancient hibee]

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If we go after Rangers, then a bit of whataboutery might bring this into play.


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In that case I hope nobody remembers about Gordon Smith taking delivery of the first Porsche sportscar in Scotland (he didn't pay for it)or the difficulty so many of the players had in getting their shoes on after training because of the wads of folding stuff in them.It would be a shame to have those titles taken away.

[green day]

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Those are SPFL rules, are they enforceable pre 2012? I don't know.

Remember when the Huns waved similar rules at us after the cup final and said it would be stripped?

Thats why they will be asking lawyers.

[GreenPJ]

Purge the SFA and SPFL and I could live with that as the outcome.

[ancient hibee]

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Purge the SFA and SPFL and I could live with that as the outcome.

You mean close down all the clubs in Scotland.A bit drastic surely?

[lucky]

Rangers gained a financial edge over other clubs but then so has every team who overspent and then entered administration. As for stripping titles what is that going to achieve? Our game needs to move on and try talking it up rather than revisit old issues. We all believe they got an unfair advantage and love reminding them of it.

[Ozyhibby]

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Those are SPFL rules, are they enforceable pre 2012? I don't know.

Remember when the Huns waved similar rules at us after the cup final and said it would be stripped?

Thats why they will be asking lawyers.

I was just showing that disqualification even after the fact is always an option in any sports comp rules. Even kids swimming galas have removal of titles in their rules. It would have been in the SPL's rules as well or they would have been shouting from the rooftops that here was nothing they could do.


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[Ozyhibby]

Not convincing at all from Petrie.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40...kname=scotland


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[Ozyhibby]

https://stv.tv/sport/football/139421...ampaign=buffer


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[HoboHarry]

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https://stv.tv/sport/football/139421...ampaign=buffer


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The whole of Scottish football is turning a blind eye to the cheats. Unreal, and I wonder what skeletons are in the closet that are clearly scaring them sh**less.

[snooky]

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Not convincing at all from Petrie.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40...kname=scotland


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Quick body swerve there, Rod. Barry John would have been proud of that one. Mind you, Barry"s windies wurny at stake.

To be fair, he's saying it"s time to stop poking the cat and move on. Up to a point I agree. (Tin hat firmly on).

[Ozyhibby]

Pretty clear the decision has been taken and Hibs are at the centre of it. Disgusting.


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[DarlingtonHibee]

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Quick body swerve there, Rod. Barry John would have been proud of that one. Mind you, Barry"s windies wurny at stake.

To be fair, he's saying it"s time to stop poking the cat and move on. Up to a point I agree. (Tin hat firmly on).

I'm a big RP advocate, but sorry that was poor. They were cheats and should be punished. Don't think I would have got sympathy from HMRC if I hadn't paid my Paye.

[Onion]

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https://stv.tv/sport/football/139421...ampaign=buffer


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SPFL are simply pretending to review the Rangers case, hiding behind "legal advice" in hope of silencing Celtic, club fans and some journos. Much safer outcome for the individuals on the SPFL Board to leave the titles with the Huns than to strip them ! They'll hope that Wednesday's confirmation will put the issue to bed for good.

[ancient hibee]

So when the legal advice says it's a dead duck do you think members of the various boards should ignore it and go ahead with some form of legal action?

[HoboHarry]

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So when the legal advice says it's a dead duck do you think members of the various boards should ignore it and go ahead with some form of legal action?

What was the legal advice?

[ancient hibee]

Haven't the faintest idea but perhaps you can tell me.

[green day]

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Pretty clear the decision has been taken and Hibs are at the centre of it. Disgusting.


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Aye, Hibs have always been in cahoots with the Hun, I tell ye it's a ****** masonic / Fenian conspiracy.......

[HoboHarry]

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Haven't the faintest idea but perhaps you can tell me.

No I can't, I assumed from your question that you actually knew something.