Scottish Independence

[Scottie]

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I probably shouldn't have ranted like that, just emotions running a bit high so appologies to anyone offended by that post. I wanted a Yes vote, but now that it is a No, i just hope that this country can move forward and prosper. I still think we will be ****ed if/when the Tories and UKIP get in though, just my 2 cents.

Pal we need to hope UKIP get in at the next election and they'll take the UK OUT of Europe. That's the only way we'll get another referendum in the next 10 years. Horrible though I know

[hibs0666]

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This is how I see it. The chance to improve the lives of everyone in Scotland, but in particular the people who needed it most. We've backed the establishment instead. Feel a bit upset at the thought of it tbh.

Nope we haven't voted against a social justice agenda, we have voted against an independence agenda.

[allmodcons]

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Why doesn't the SNP use the tax raising powers they already have then ?

Because increasing income tax alone is almost unworkable in a devolved settlement.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-26630498

[CropleyWasGod]

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Because they are unworkable in a devolved settlement.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it "tax-varying" rather than "tax-raising"?

Or did that get changed in the recent Scotland Act?

[JeMeSouviens]

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it "tax-varying" rather than "tax-raising"?

Or did that get changed in the recent Scotland Act?

No, you're right. The original is +/-3p. It was supposed to be moving to +/-10p in 2016 under the watered-down Calman act but doesn't look like that will ever get implemented now.

Also, the tax powers haven't been available at all since 2007 because of a dispute about who was to pay HMRC for an IT upgrade, Holyrood or Westminster.

[Bad Martini]

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Gutted.
Now I live in a fair & equal country, I would have liked the same for my homeland.

..You cannie fool the Glaswegians though

Respect to the people of Glasgow, Dundee, North Lanarkshire and West Dumbartonshire.

[allmodcons]

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it "tax-varying" rather than "tax-raising"?

Or did that get changed in the recent Scotland Act?

Sorry, not having a good day!!!!! Forgot to include link.

[CropleyWasGod]

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No, you're right. The original is +/-3p. It was supposed to be moving to +/-10p in 2016 under the watered-down Calman act but doesn't look like that will ever get implemented now.

Also, the tax powers haven't been available at all since 2007 because of a dispute about who was to pay HMRC for an IT upgrade, Holyrood or Westminster.

Cheers.

Was never very sure whether we would ever actually use it. I was one of the deluded fools who voted for the LibDems "1p on Income Tax, to pay for free Higher Education" in 1999.... and got screwed over. Since then, I have been very cynical about why it's there.

[allmodcons]

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No, you're right. The original is +/-3p. It was supposed to be moving to +/-10p in 2016 under the watered-down Calman act but doesn't look like that will ever get implemented now.

Also, the tax powers haven't been available at all since 2007 because of a dispute about who was to pay HMRC for an IT upgrade, Holyrood or Westminster.

I think BBC article confirms this by stating that any tax take would be lost in implementation and set up costs.

[stantonhibby]

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Because increasing income tax alone is almost unworkable in a devolved settlement.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-26630498

Ok thanks..........never knew that.

[allmodcons]

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Cheers.

Was never very sure whether we would ever actually use it. I was one of the deluded fools who voted for the LibDems "1p on Income Tax, to pay for free Higher Education" in 1999.... and got screwed over. Since then, I have been very cynical about why it's there.

I'm surprised, your posts always appear to show a good grasp of figures!
Mind you, 15 years is a long time ago!

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/page...tland#petition


THE PETITION TEXT:

Dear David Cameron, Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg:

As the Scottish referendum campaigns came to a head, you made the Scottish people a series of promises. They included:

• new powers for the Scottish Parliament
• the power to spend more on the NHS if Scotland wanted to
• that the final decision on public services spending would stay in Scotland

Please stick to those promises on the timetable you agreed. Scotland won’t accept less

[lobster]

Thoroughly ashamed of being Scottish today. What kind of country doesn't want to control its own affairs? Its staggering that a majority of Scots don't want to do so and seem content with the 'pocket money' of a limited devolved parliament. Scotland the Cowardly and Fearful is more true than Scotland the Brave. Perhaps Scotland itself is just a sad myth.

[lobster]

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Absolutely devastated with the outcome of the vote. Can't believe 1.6 million voted and believed in the dream and have ended up with the same nightmare that has blighted Scotland for decades.

Will never understand until the day I die why the people of Scotland with a chance to change the future and history chose to keep begging for the crumbs off the Westminster table instead of grasping this once in a lifetime chance to make a difference and take our destiny into our own hands and for the generations to follow.

Congratulations to the NO campaign for getting the required votes to get over the line. The establishment have reeled you in hook line and sinker with their promises of This and that but haven't even told you what they are promising you in "their vow"

Already they have forgotten about Scotland down at Westminster and are taking about everyone else apart from us. With voting NO Scotland has been dealt with as far as they are concerned so enjoy you next 3-4 decades of London rule. We ALL had the chance to make a difference and blew it.

[Hibrandenburg]

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Thoroughly ashamed of being Scottish today. What kind of country doesn't want to control its own affairs? Its staggering that a majority of Scots don't want to do so and seem content with the 'pocket money' of a limited devolved parliament. Scotland the Cowardly and Fearful is more true than Scotland the Brave. Perhaps Scotland itself is just a sad myth.

This. I sing in a wee Scottish Folk band and we play the pub circuit here. The credibility of all our musical folklore was blown out the window last night. Our credibility as a nation died last night.

[Colonel_HFC]

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... because not everyone does. We all have our own reasons for voting the way we do, all of them valid. Self-interest wasn't one of mine yesterday.

Again, that's just you. And it's pretty reasonable to expect people to vote in their own best interest. It makes the most sense.

[Sergio sledge]

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Just looked up the number of over 65s in Scotland - 930K! So if that poll was correct, Yes may have won among the working age population. Incredible pensioner power.

If all the over 65's hadn't voted then it would have been a Yes vote.

The most interesting figure in that trend is the 18-24 vote, it is the only one which doesn't seem to fit in as it is the only age group below 55 that voted against independence. I wonder why that is, does anyone know how many non-scottish born students were registered to vote?

[Judas Iscariot]

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This. I sing in a wee Scottish Folk band and we play the pub circuit here. The credibility of all our musical folklore was blown out the window last night. Our credibility as a nation died last night.

100% this

Laughing stock..

[Colonel_HFC]

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Thoroughly ashamed of being Scottish today. What kind of country doesn't want to control its own affairs? Its staggering that a majority of Scots don't want to do so and seem content with the 'pocket money' of a limited devolved parliament. Scotland the Cowardly and Fearful is more true than Scotland the Brave. Perhaps Scotland itself is just a sad myth.

Pathetic 😢

[CropleyWasGod]

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I'm surprised, your posts always appear to show a good grasp of figures!
Mind you, 15 years is a long time ago!

It wasn't about the figures.

The LibDems campaigned on that platform, and reneged on it as soon they got into bed with Labour.

Swine. Never been able to trust them since.

[allmodcons]

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Again, that's just you. And it's pretty reasonable to expect people to vote in their own best interest. It makes the most sense.

I can only assume that you are on the wind up.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Thoroughly ashamed of being Scottish today. What kind of country doesn't want to control its own affairs? Its staggering that a majority of Scots don't want to do so and seem content with the 'pocket money' of a limited devolved parliament. Scotland the Cowardly and Fearful is more true than Scotland the Brave. Perhaps Scotland itself is just a sad myth.

Actually, I'm pretty proud of that fact that 84% deemed it important enough to vote. Not ashamed at all.

[Colonel_HFC]

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Thoroughly ashamed of being Scottish today. What kind of country doesn't want to control its own affairs? Its staggering that a majority of Scots don't want to do so and seem content with the 'pocket money' of a limited devolved parliament. Scotland the Cowardly and Fearful is more true than Scotland the Brave. Perhaps Scotland itself is just a sad myth.

Although I do agree with the cowardly part - but not for the No voters.

It's people too cowardly to take responsibility for their own lives. I'm unhappy and have achieved nothing so, instead of looking in the mirror and growing a pair, I'm going to blame everyone else (Westminster, the English, big business and now even the majority of voters in Scotland...).

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=Colonel_HFC;4174140]Again, that's just you. And it's pretty reasonable to expect people to vote in their own best interest. It makes the most sense.[/QUOTE]

It does if you have that mentality.

I, and those I respect (and that includes both Yes and No voters) generally don't.

[Colonel_HFC]

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I can only assume that you are on the wind up.

You can assume what you like. It doesn't matter.

[Future17]

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Again, that's just you. And it's pretty reasonable to expect people to vote in their own best interest. It makes the most sense.

I'm not saying there's any problem with voting in your own best interest, but I do think it wasn't the primary concern for a lot of "Yes" voters.

[Colonel_HFC]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;4174166]

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Again, that's just you. And it's pretty reasonable to expect people to vote in their own best interest. It makes the most sense.[/QUOTE]

It does if you have that mentality.

I, and those I respect (and that includes both Yes and No voters) generally don't.

Again, speak for yourself. So you only respect people that think like you?

[pedroorange1875]

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Absolutely devastated with the outcome of the vote. Can't believe 1.6 million voted and believed in the dream and have ended up with the same nightmare that has blighted Scotland for decades.

Will never understand until the day I die why the people of Scotland with a chance to change the future and history chose to keep begging for the crumbs off the Westminster table instead of grasping this once in a lifetime chance to make a difference and take our destiny into our own hands and for the generations to follow.

Congratulations to the NO campaign for getting the required votes to get over the line. The establishment have reeled you in hook line and sinker with their promises of This and that but haven't even told you what they are promising you in "their vow"

Already they have forgotten about Scotland down at Westminster and are taking about everyone else apart from us. With voting NO Scotland has been dealt with as far as they are concerned so enjoy you next 3-4 decades of London rule. We ALL had the chance to make a difference and blew it.

Before i start i voted yes. However the only people that blew it were the SNP/Yes campaign. This campaign has been rumbling on for nearly 3 years and still for the average guy in the street the YES campaign could not answer very important, highly crucial questions in a very clear concise manner leaving no question for debate or a chance to be disgracefully scaremongered in the last 2 weeks, which i feel swung the balance.

Instead for the first year we got battered on the radio and other media that 16/17 year olds can vote. We got told free stuff would continue, we got told about nuclear weapons. Yet even now there is no absolute clear way forward on currency, taxations systems, monetary policy and actual real wealth figures from our resources. Now i concede that if we delve massively into this then answers could be found to a certain extent. However the BBC/headline newspapers dont do that they sensationalise it all to the average man. With scarmongering tactics that were deplorable of course people will become swayed.

All these points should have been debated to death long long before this campaign closed so that any dirty tactics which were definately employed 2 weeks upto the voting day would have easily been rubbished without question by the average man.

Salmond etc missed a massive opportunity by getting waylaid, involved in petty arguments and not focusing to ensuring mr and mrs mainstream new exactly the answers without as much doubt as possible about the really crucial matters. But hey at least 16/17 year olds got to vote..

Absolutely disillusioned by it all...a huge, historic opportunity wasted

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=Colonel_HFC;4174170]

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Again, speak for yourself. So you only respect people that think like you?

Did I say that?

If you read my post, I said that many people I respect voted differently to me.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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Respect to the people of Glasgow, Dundee, North Lanarkshire and West Dumbartonshire.

1 in every 4 Glaswegians couldnae even be arsed getting involved.