Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[hibbymick]

I find it a bit strange The Tache splashing out 200k on a player when the chances of us losing the revenue from the derby seems very likely.

[Keith_M]

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The liquidator of Hearts.

But why and what would they hope to gain?


The liquidators job is to get money for the creditors with the remaining assets. The only remaining asset worth anything is Tynecastle so they would sell that. I can't see that they would have anything else to do?

Also, Liquidators only continue work until there's no more money in the Compnay being liquidated to pay them. Hearts have no money, ergo it's over practically before it starts.

[Jamesie]

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The only way this could happen would be with the administrator's consent, imo.
.

Not so, I believe. The snappily titled Para 43(6) to Schedule B1 of the Insolvency Act 1986 states as follows:

(6)No legal process (including legal proceedings, execution, distress and diligence) may be instituted or continued against the company or property of the company except—

(a)with the consent of the administrator, or

(b)with the permission of the court.

While I haven't looked at how/if this paragraph has been interpreted by the courts, my instinctive reaction is that I do not consider expulsion from the league to constitute a "legal process".

[connerg]

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I find it a bit strange The Tache splashing out 200k on a player when the chances of us losing the revenue from the derby seems very likely.

The Tache probably promised Fenlon money from the Cup run, add to that a good payday from the Malmo game at ER.

[Sylar]

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I find it a bit strange The Tache splashing out 200k on a player when the chances of us losing the revenue from the derby seems very likely.

If Hearts disappear, the safeguard against relegation goes so perhaps he views it as a security investment?

[StevieC]

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The problem is that that would leave the SPFL open to legal action.

I hear what you're saying ..

.. but legal action from who?

[brog]

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It's an SFA meeting, no?

Picky, picky!

My more serious point was respected commentators on here are saying SPFL have applied all sanctions possible vs Yams & there's no opportunity/discretion within the rules to throw them out the league. Assuming for now that SPL rules remain valid, it appears to my reading that they can be thrown out. If rules are consolidated the main difference would be they go out of all 4 divisions rather than SPL only! Shame!

[Hibs07p]

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I don't think Livi are a useful precedent, as it is from a time before any real rules on insolvency were brought in, and the SFL itself subsequently expressed regret for how harshly they were treated, see Dundee as a later example, their second bought of admin brought a tougher points penalty, not being dumped to the bottom of the pile.

Regardless of what happens now, one division is likely to be 1 club short, so the question is whether the SPFL decide that trying to pre-emptively put Hearts out of their misery, an act that will likely attract the anger of the media and elements of the wider public (you'd be amazed how many people I've spoken to that are barely aware Hearts are in debt, never mind the tax and other dodginess, such people would percieve it as an institution being 'shot in the face' and would at the least generate goodwill and support for some future Hearts newco, something we don't want!) or whether they accept that it is very difficult to do anything prior to the financial players in this mess finishing up, then either promoting clubs that don't have a hope of being prepared for it, or dealing with the bad PR of a 'Premiership' being one club short.

They could end up 2 short, Dunfermline could go into liquidation tomorrow.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23494323

[Bostonhibby]

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The relevant thread over the road has the title...... "Not Looking So Good".

Wow, so once the summer holidays are over and the bowling season moves into autumn there might be a chance that one or two of the hearts boys will issue a rallying call to the 400,000 to form an electoral college to elect a representative for each area of the world to attend a sub commitee to agree the terms of a draft strongly worded letter to the Hootsman.

It is all so unfair, Johnny foreigner was given a perfectly respectable offer which was more than enough for 2 mid range bungalows in Barnton but chose to reject it, its their prerogative but now that it's been rejected the Yam should just move on and offer it to someone else to step into the void / abyss, its a perfectly good inducement to take over a dual war winning team that plays free of any real debt in a prime piece of Edinburgh real estate - the title sums it up nicely, what is there for them to panic about?

When liquidation actually arrives an appropriate headline will be submitted to the end game advisory sub commitee for Kickback approval - something along the lines of "WTF was that? the lights went out and where were we?

[CropleyWasGod]

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I hear what you're saying ..

.. but legal action from who?

The liquidator.

Picking up Keekaboo's question on this, it would be the liquidator's view that throwing Hearts out of the League too soon, without allowing the legal process to run its course, adversely affected the amount of money that Hearts (hence the creditors) "might" have earned had they been allowed to continue. It's similar to a damages claim, where loss of earnings is the central part of the claim.

Sure, as K says, there may be little cash left to mount such an action, but while there is I reckon a liquidator would see it as fair game.

This may well be the legal advice that the SPFL have had... albeit with bigger words and a much bigger invoice.

[Gus Fring]

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I hear what you're saying ..

.. but legal action from who?

If the club is liquidated whoever buys the assets would also be able to begin the legal action.

However, there is a chance, as has been said, that Hearts are not liquidated. BDO have already said they have enough money currently to see them through until Christmas, all this talk of Hearts "being skint" is a fallacy. Hearts were skint. They've now got themselves a somewhat decent slush fund to work with that the creditors can't get their hands on. Once the season starts they can start earning money again as well. If Hearts were punted out the league, all of that money could then be spent on pursuing legal action because the club would be worthless without somewhere to play to football. A win in court (which is almost inevitable) would then end up with Hearts with a significant sum that would not have to be given to the creditors. The SPFL would then be minus the amount of said award which would have a knock on effect on the entire team. There is also the possibility that UEFA/FIFA got involved because usually they don't take kindly to governing bodies leaving themselves open to legal action.

Long story short, Hearts could be millions of pounds up and the SPFL would be millions of pounds down and have to suffer whatever punishments UEFA/FIFA see fit.

[Sanger]

Reading the the fuller statement in the record the Ukio administrator unless it quickly receives vastly improved bids will soon instruct BDO to start liquidation proceedings. I can see this announcement although not the actual liquidation proceedings being made by the end of the week. Think the Ukio admins are shocked at how far the bids are from the value of the Tynie land. Today's announcement is not part of a hard ball poker game but a sign the game is really over for Hearts.

[HFC 0-7]

So the bids are millions away and we know Massone was bidding £4 million. Fromwhat I have heard the £4 million wasn't for ukio, 2.5 million was for ukio and the rest for a cva. If ukio are wanting what the land is worth that means someone needs to stump up around 5 - 6 million just to make ukio happy and have enough left over for a cva! Another thing that I have heard is that one of the groups were wanting to " give " ukio tynecastle to get them out the picture and have only a CVA to try and get passed but ukio valuation of the land is different to what BDO and the group think therefore they can't agree on how much of ukio's debt will move into the CVA.

Could be total balls right enough but the logic seems to be there.

[Sergey]

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Reading the the fuller statement in the record the Ukio administrator unless it quickly receives vastly improved bids will soon instruct BDO to start liquidation proceedings. I can see this announcement although not the actual liquidation proceedings being made by the end of the week. Think the Ukio admins are shocked at how far the bids are from the value of the Tynie land. Today's announcement is not part of a hard ball poker game but a sign the game is really over for Hearts.

I agree with your observation, but I'll also hold my stance insomuch that the UBIG administrator will play a pivotal part in how this pans out (or won't as the Hearts shares are frozen).

I'm pretty sure we're watching the end-game unravel and no sensible amount of money can save them.

My opinion - Liquidation is probably a few months away, simply because there is money sloshing around. Thereafter, it'll be the final cut, in a sort of Albert Pierrepoint way.

[BigKev]

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Reading the the fuller statement in the record the Ukio administrator unless it quickly receives vastly improved bids will soon instruct BDO to start liquidation proceedings. I can see this announcement although not the actual liquidation proceedings being made by the end of the week. Think the Ukio admins are shocked at how far the bids are from the value of the Tynie land. Today's announcement is not part of a hard ball poker game but a sign the game is really over for Hearts.

I like this quote a lot What makes you think things will move so quickly?

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I agree with your observation, but I'll also hold my stance insomuch that the UBIG administrator will play a pivotal part in how this pans out (or won't as the Hearts shares are frozen).

I'm pretty sure we're watching the end-game unravel and no sensible amount of money can save them.

My opinion - Liquidation is probably a few months away, simply because there is money sloshing around. Thereafter, it'll be the final cut, in a sort of Albert Pierrepoint way.

What would you believe an acceptable offer to be Sergey?

[Mac]

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I agree with your observation, but I'll also hold my stance insomuch that the UBIG administrator will play a pivotal part in how this pans out (or won't as the Hearts shares are frozen).

I'm pretty sure we're watching the end-game unravel and no sensible amount of money can save them.

My opinion - Liquidation is probably a few months away, simply because there is money sloshing around. Thereafter, it'll be the final cut, in a sort of Albert Pierrepoint way.

But it won't be hearts decision, if the UBIG creditors want money quickly then they will liquidate and asset strip, doesn't matter what money is sloshing around as they will take it to pay creditors.

[Sanger]

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I agree with your observation, but I'll also hold my stance insomuch that the UBIG administrator will play a pivotal part in how this pans out (or won't as the Hearts shares are frozen).

I'm pretty sure we're watching the end-game unravel and no sensible amount of money can save them.

My opinion - Liquidation is probably a few months away, simply because there is money sloshing around. Thereafter, it'll be the final cut, in a sort of Albert Pierrepoint way.

Think the freezing of the Hearts shares only an issue if they are sold on in coming out of administration- not an issue with liquidation. But Ukio/UBIG essentially now controlled by the Lithuanian state who can put proceeds of any sale in trust until legal action against Romanov is complete.

[CropleyWasGod]

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But it won't be hearts decision, if the UBIG creditors want money quickly then they will liquidate and asset strip, doesn't matter what money is sloshing around as they will take it to pay creditors.

It will be BDO's call.

[jgl07]

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So the bids are millions away and we know Massone was bidding £4 million. Fromwhat I have heard the £4 million wasn't for ukio, 2.5 million was for ukio and the rest for a cva. If ukio are wanting what the land is worth that means someone needs to stump up around 5 - 6 million just to make ukio happy and have enough left over for a cva! Another thing that I have heard is that one of the groups were wanting to " give " ukio tynecastle to get them out the picture and have only a CVA to try and get passed but ukio valuation of the land is different to what BDO and the group think therefore they can't agree on how much of ukio's debt will move into the CVA.

Could be total balls right enough but the logic seems to be there.

If it was £2.5 million for a UKIOS and £1.5 million for a CVA, who would pay the BDO fees?

[Sergey]

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What would you believe an acceptable offer to be Sergey?

The only offer that would be currently acceptable to all parties in Lithuania is £15M to Ukio and £10M to UBIG (assuming that the UBIG assets would be freed from current criminal investigations). That's what's currently due (on paper but it's much more in reality) to the folks in LT.

I don't even think that BDO fully know what is going on. BTW - no appeal as yet to the proposed UBIG insolvency appointment.

[Bostonhibby]

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I agree with your observation, but I'll also hold my stance insomuch that the UBIG administrator will play a pivotal part in how this pans out (or won't as the Hearts shares are frozen).

I'm pretty sure we're watching the end-game unravel and no sensible amount of money can save them.

My opinion - Liquidation is probably a few months away, simply because there is money sloshing around. Thereafter, it'll be the final cut, in a sort of Albert Pierrepoint way.

Am leaning this way myself as after all the various scenarios have been postured / debated its still pretty much followed the line of offer us enough or we will liquidate.

One telling observation for me has been the rather lower profile / silence from Ian Murray MP "independent" chairman.

Does he know something we don't? has he reeled his head in now that all the news is likely to be bad news? have the Labour Party told him to do what he is paid for?

[DaveF]

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It will be BDO's call.

I wish they would hurry up. I've got some 180 and Bullseye posts waiting

[mutley]

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I do agree sporting itegrity etc etc

question is how do WE replace the income lost by playing Hearts

Just catching up with this thread, the answer to this one us simple, decent cup runs would more than make up for home games against THEM.
And as someone mentioned above, finishing higher up the league , better revenue gained from SPFL

[Sanger]

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I like this quote a lot What makes you think things will move so quickly?


What would you believe an acceptable offer to be Sergey?

The tone and words of the fuller quotes in the Record from the Ukio administrator.

[CropleyWasGod]

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If it was £2.5 million for a UKIOS and £1.5 million for a CVA, who would pay the BDO fees?

Any of the administration bids has to have 3 elements. The secured creditor(s), the unsecureds and BDO.

[Treadstone]

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Am leaning this way myself as after all the various scenarios have been postured / debated its still pretty much followed the line of offer us enough or we will liquidate.

One telling observation for me has been the rather lower profile / silence from Ian Murray MP "independent" chairman.

Does he know something we don't? has he reeled his head in now that all the news is likely to be bad news? have the Labour Party told him to do what he is paid for?

He is currently weighing up the 'political angle'. Pie faced blowhard.

[bingo70]

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I agree with your observation, but I'll also hold my stance insomuch that the UBIG administrator will play a pivotal part in how this pans out (or won't as the Hearts shares are frozen).

I'm pretty sure we're watching the end-game unravel and no sensible amount of money can save them.

My opinion - Liquidation is probably a few months away, simply because there is money sloshing around. Thereafter, it'll be the final cut, in a sort of Albert Pierrepoint way.

What happens if both remaining interested parties go back to the drawing board and decide they can't get close to the asking price so give up, would they still plod along until the cash dries up in the hope a new bidder comes along or would the administrators just lock the gates?

[Moulin Yarns]

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They could end up 2 short, Dunfermline could go into liquidation tomorrow.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23494323

And The Simple Solution? 4 Leagues Of 10 Clubs, Sorry Partick Thistle

[sauzee=legend]

Question - what date do hearts find out their punishment from the sfa/spl/sfpl (or whatever they are called) for going into administration? Because if they leave it to late, hearts might already be liquidated.

[kdhibees1]

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Question - what date do hearts find out their punishment from the sfa/spl/sfpl (or whatever they are called) for going into administration? Because if they leave it to late, hearts might already be liquidated.

This coming Thursday
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/f...te-sfa-2061570