Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Hibbyradge]

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If there is firm evidence which I believe there is that Hearts will not be able to fulfil their fixtures then it is the responsible course to put them out the leagues now. It is the responsibility of the SPL to ensure that clubs are financially viable and can sustain themselves throughout the season. There is plenty of evidence that comes down against Hearts not lasting the season. We are further destroying the credibility of Scottish football and sanctions could follow from UEFA. It does not need liquidation proceedings to begin to determine if Hearts are a viable concern.

The only way this could happen would be with the administrator's consent, imo.

Otherwise, Hearts would blame the SPFL for causing them to go bust and would sue.

There is still a chance that someone will meet BDO's price and they have publicly announced that they have enough money to keep them going till Christmas at least.

There's a few teams in the leagues that couldn't give a guarantee that they'll definitely fulfil their fixtures...

[WhileTheChief..]

What if FoH just go back in with a larger offer?

[Ozyhibby]

Maybe just hit them with the max possible penalty on Thurs. Might end them once and for all and keep the SPFL on the right side of the law.

[Hibbyradge]

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In our case, the missing fixture would be our biggest money spinner, Hearts at home on New Year's Day!

Aye, that would be a shame although we both know it would be moved to the 3rd or something for TV.

Plus, there's no new income from ST members, but you're right, we'd miss out on a tidy sum.

[DaveF]

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Maybe just hit them with the max possible penalty on Thurs. Might end them once and for all and keep the SPFL on the right side of the law.

Spot on Ozy. Presumably they have the power within their own rule book to administer a fatal boot in the knackers which these cretins deserve.

[lord bunberry]

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Aye, that would be a shame although we both know it would be moved to the 3rd or something for TV.

Plus, there's no new income from ST members, but you're right, we'd miss out on a tidy sum.

If they survive that long and are well adrift at the bottom they would be lucky to sell 500 tickets for that game.

[brog]

Rule G6.1.11 allows to ' order that a club be expelled from the league ' if in ' a breach of or a failure to fulfill the rules '. Its quite a hard read but I'm assuming that rules means any or all. Yams are definitely in breach of at least 2 rules, failure to pay players & failure to pay HMRC. More seriously their books are supposed to be available for full inspection & scrutiny & I'm not sure they could withstand a full investigative audit of their finances over the last few years.
Perhaps SPFL may apply this ultimate sanction on Thursday given that Yams say they can't handle alternatives such as a fine or a block on registrations.

[Mon Dieu4]

Looks like Lord Pishy Breeks chat with the Lithuanian Ambassador worked a treat, bet he just stuffed his face with Ferrero Rocher

[Itsnoteasy]

MY HEART IS BROKEN HHTHAH

[Billy Whizz]

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If they survive that long and are well adrift at the bottom they would be lucky to sell 500 tickets for that game.

Just give them 1/2 of the South, and we can sell the rest to Hibees who will enjoy seeing us give them a good humping

[lord bunberry]

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Just give them 1/2 of the South, and we can sell the rest to Hibees who will enjoy seeing us give them a good humping

I think that's what may well happen

[CropleyWasGod]

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Rule G6.1.11 allows to ' order that a club be expelled from the league ' if in ' a breach of or a failure to fulfill the rules '. Its quite a hard read but I'm assuming that rules means any or all. Yams are definitely in breach of at least 2 rules, failure to pay players & failure to pay HMRC. More seriously their books are supposed to be available for full inspection & scrutiny & I'm not sure they could withstand a full investigative audit of their finances over the last few years.
Perhaps SPFL may apply this ultimate sanction on Thursday given that Yams say they can't handle alternatives such as a fine or a block on registrations.

It's an SFA meeting, no?

[Bostonhibby]

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Are we aware of the finance loss this will be on our team

TV revenue
cash sales

not good as we will not be able to replace this income

not really but I am willing to learn, tax has to be paid, our country is in recession, and what about all the other creditors.

LTYF.............

[johnrebus]

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I think that's what may well happen

I don't this Hibs team could dish out a good humping to even the hottest of Hollywood starlets right now....,

[Bostonhibby]

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Looks like Lord Pishy Breeks chat with the Lithuanian Ambassador worked a treat, bet he just stuffed his face with Ferrero Rocher

A few trendy chocolates? nowhere near enough for Scotlands premier statesman and all round defender of the moral high ground.

[ScottB]

I don't think Livi are a useful precedent, as it is from a time before any real rules on insolvency were brought in, and the SFL itself subsequently expressed regret for how harshly they were treated, see Dundee as a later example, their second bought of admin brought a tougher points penalty, not being dumped to the bottom of the pile.

Regardless of what happens now, one division is likely to be 1 club short, so the question is whether the SPFL decide that trying to pre-emptively put Hearts out of their misery, an act that will likely attract the anger of the media and elements of the wider public (you'd be amazed how many people I've spoken to that are barely aware Hearts are in debt, never mind the tax and other dodginess, such people would percieve it as an institution being 'shot in the face' and would at the least generate goodwill and support for some future Hearts newco, something we don't want!) or whether they accept that it is very difficult to do anything prior to the financial players in this mess finishing up, then either promoting clubs that don't have a hope of being prepared for it, or dealing with the bad PR of a 'Premiership' being one club short.

[Treadstone]

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Looks like Lord Pishy Breeks chat with the Lithuanian Ambassador worked a treat, bet he just stuffed his face with Ferrero Rocher

"With this free bevvy that I am chucking doon ma throat you are spoiling us Mrs Ambassador"

Roaster.

[steakbake]

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A few trendy chocolates? nowhere near enough for Scotlands premier statesman and all round defender of the moral high ground.

He's a shameless sort.

[Bostonhibby]

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I can sing bass.

If we could raise a few quid for doing it I am sure we could persuade FOH or Save Hearts In Trouble to flounder around for a bit before ultimately disappearing up their own sub comittee

[monktonharp]

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There is no "Plan Morton". Morton are not prepared to play in the SPL next season, that would have a massive financial impact on them as well as they suddenly have to find the funding to cope with SPL games rather than Div 1 games.

If the SPL is reduced to 11 teams then Hearts share of the income from the League would be shared evenly amongst the remaining teams, lessening the financial impact. This is one of the reasons the SPFL has decided not to give Hearts any financial help.

Here's what'll happen if the SPFL kick Hearts out now and bring Morton up. Morton will struggle, financially and competitively. Hearts would then be left with little choice but to liquidate as the club would become almost worthless. Tynecastle would be sold etc. What's left of Hearts would then sue the SPFL for kicking them out a league they still had every right to be in. If Hearts win (which they would, because it's clearly a breach of the rules) the financial award for this would be massive. Loss of potential earnings, irreparable damage to the brand and it's commercial activities etc. The SPFL would be due them a massive payment. Even if this was say a conservative estimate of £5m, there is no way they can afford it.

If I've said it once, I've said a thousand times. The SPFL are doing the right thing just now because the alternatives are far worse for everyone involved.



The law of the land trumps everything I'm afraid as Rangers proved last year in the court of session.

My own rules I've written here in crayon say I should get into Easter Road for nowt next season and I'm prepared to stand by those rules. I hope it works

I don't think that Morton would particularly struggle financially. on the contrary, they would have a massive increase in attendances. Morton v Celtic-huge increase, Morton v Hibernian- huge increase, Morton v St.Mirren- very huge increase, Killie, Partick also bigger attendances and the Morton fans would turn up in numbers as they can compete with the "smaller" west coast teams as far as attendances are concerned . I do think we would take 1500-2000 to our first game against them, just to wind up the gorgie mob.

[ScottB]

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I don't think that Morton would particularly struggle financially. on the contrary, they would have a massive increase in attendances. Morton v Celtic-huge increase, Morton v Hibernian- huge increase, Morton v St.Mirren- very huge increase, Killie, Partick also bigger attendances and the Morton fans would turn up in numbers as they can compete with the "smaller" west coast teams as far as attendances are concerned . I do think we would take 1500-2000 to our first game against them, just to wind up the gorgie mob.

Might they have to pay their players more? I assume First division players may have promotion clauses for wage increases?

Increased policing costs from more away fans, presumably it's too late to increase ticket prices for a top division campaign. No time to add much to their squad, will their fans turn up in numbers to see them being beaten most weeks?

Would Morton fancy going up at zero notice and trying to avoid relegation back into a division that by then would contain The Rangers, or a first division campaign they could well win?

[clerriehibs]

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Unless it's a 100% probability, the SPFL will not, cannot and should not be touching the Hearts situation with a 60ft pole. Please remember that the SPFL isn't an impartial governing body, it's a group of representatives from the other clubs. They know fine well what the impact will be and stabbing one of their own isn't going to solve any problems, it just creates a whole mess of new ones.

"Tarnish scottish football"? Taking one of it's member clubs round the back and shooting it in the face would be the worst publicity they could ever hope for.

As I remember it, the SPL as was, after it's light touch "investigation" of homfc, found that nothing was out of order, but they reserved the right to re-analyse the situation ... http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/h...investigation/.

I assume that right has carried on into the SPFL.

The findings back then were obviously wrong; homfc were in the throes of an insolvency event.

I can't see what the problem is. Retrospectively apply the 18 point deduction, relegate them, and have a "Plan Dundee" rather than a "Plan Morton".

Alternatively, let's just shore up the cheats, because that's what WILL happen, rather than any day-dreaming about an 11 team league.

[monktonharp]

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Might they have to pay their players more? I assume First division players may have promotion clauses for wage increases?

Increased policing costs from more away fans, presumably it's too late to increase ticket prices for a top division campaign. No time to add much to their squad, will their fans turn up in numbers to see them being beaten most weeks?

Would Morton fancy going up at zero notice and trying to avoid relegation back into a division that by then would contain The Rangers, or a first division campaign they could well win?

all very valid points, but crowd increases are a given. can they not just increase prices for any game? hertz do, ala £32-3 for games with us , as they have done/ the benefitters would be anyone holding a season ticket for G.Morton. Dundee had as good ,if not better crowds than others last season, despite their sudden quantum leap. also, it has been stated in the press and on here that Doncaster was invited to Cappielow recently to see the new upgraded facilities which are up to premiership standard.

[Andy74]

The other BBC McLaughlin is saying that the shortfall is into millions of pounds. Not the one million mentioned earlier.

[CropleyWasGod]

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As I remember it, the SPL as was, after it's light touch "investigation" of homfc, found that nothing was out of order, but they reserved the right to re-analyse the situation ... http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/h...investigation/.

I assume that right has carried on into the SPFL.

The findings back then were obviously wrong; homfc were in the throes of an insolvency event.

I can't see what the problem is. Retrospectively apply the 18 point deduction, relegate them, and have a "Plan Dundee" rather than a "Plan Morton".

Alternatively, let's just shore up the cheats, because that's what WILL happen, rather than any day-dreaming about an 11 team league.

The problem is that that would leave the SPFL open to legal action. Even in hindsight, establishing whether and when a company is insolvent is notoriously difficult. For example, I would argue that Hearts were insolvent the day UBIG announced withdrawal of their funding. Others would argue that UBIG only became insolvent the day their administration was confirmed by the court.

Better to let real legal process run its course, IMO, than rely on opinions which might tie up the story for months.

[Kato]

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What if FoH just go back in with a larger offer?

What if candy floss fell from lamposts and was gathered and served to us by highly trained Chihuahua's?

My preffered option now is to see them stumble through the season as an SPFL ghost team while UKIO finds a buyer for their "atmospheric" hovel.

[Sergey]

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The only way this could happen would be with the administrator's consent, imo.

Otherwise, Hearts would blame the SPFL for causing them to go bust and would sue.

There is still a chance that someone will meet BDO's price and they have publicly announced that they have enough money to keep them going till Christmas at least.

There's a few teams in the leagues that couldn't give a guarantee that they'll definitely fulfil their fixtures...

Got to remember that BDO's price is simply to get any bidder/prospective buyer to the 'preferred bidder' stage. Folks are jumping the gun if they think that £x millions will instantly buy the club.

These look like the grimmest of grim times for all Yams....

...and I'm loving every moment!

[green is good]

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"With this free bevvy that I am chucking doon ma throat you are spoiling us Mrs Ambassador"

Roaster.

[FranckSuzy]

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What if candy floss fell from lamposts and was gathered and served to us by highly trained Chihuahua's?

My preffered option now is to see them stumble through the season as an SPFL ghost team while UKIO finds a buyer for their "atmospheric" hovel.

[MSK]

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