Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[GreenCastle]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/r...league-status/

Ian Black - you couldn't make this up ? What happens if they are in a different league - will he sign for another club and be his 2nd choice? What about Rangers transfer ban ?

[poolman]

Just heard on Forth One that Ian Black has agreed to join the Huns

[ScottB]

'New Rangers' have no transfer ban. Still, them being able to pick up players like Black is exactly why they should be in SFL3. Starting again in SFL1 or the SPL, they will soon have a squad as good, if not better than they had before. Disgusting.

[SneakersO'Toole]

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'New Rangers' have no transfer ban. Still, them being able to pick up players like Black is exactly why they should be in SFL3. Starting again in SFL1 or the SPL, they will soon have a squad as good, if not better than they had before. Disgusting.

It is what will drive me and thousands of other SPL fans away. Abhorrent behaviour.

[blackpoolhibs]

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It is what will drive me and thousands of other SPL fans away. Abhorrent behaviour.

I'm amazed folk will still want to be part of this, if this is allowed then nothing has changed?

[rcarter1]

Based on previous years, a conservative estimate for all 12 SPL clubs turnover (excluding Rangers) would be about

100,000,000 pounds. (Assuming Celtic is about 50,000,000)

Again based on previous years, costs running these clubs will amount to about 50,000,000 total (which seems a lot!).

This leaves 50,000,000 for the combined payroll. If we now deduct the 16,000,000 losses due to Rangers in the 3rd division, - based on NO TV money and NO gate money from Rangers replacement (Dundee/Dunfermline).

we are left with 34,000,000

For the SPL to survive, all players in the SPL could agree to 32% of their pay to be deferred for a number of years. The clubs then have time to readjust their finances accordingly over the next few years. While this would not be a popular option and not even necessary for some clubs with facilities to manage by other means, for those clubs that face the worst case scenario (administration/liquidation), is it too much to ask their players to help them in this way? The players wouldn't lose out in the long run, they would just have to sign up to a mini pension scheme.

This is the 'worst case' scenario al la Doncaster. Clubs will no doubt save some money from reduced policing and other costs, be able to borrow certain amounts from banks etc, selling players, not including the fact that the TV and replacement gate money is highly unlikely to be zero.

[SteveHFC]

Neil Doncaster is a ****ing ****er

[InchHibby]

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I'm amazed folk will still want to be part of this, if this is allowed then nothing has changed?

I dont, this just beggars beleif. The only thing thats wanted in this whole scenario is for Rangers to be playing Celtic again a.s.a.p.
I wish they would inform the meeting at Hampden of this information.

[JimBHibees]

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'New Rangers' have no transfer ban. Still, them being able to pick up players like Black is exactly why they should be in SFL3. Starting again in SFL1 or the SPL, they will soon have a squad as good, if not better than they had before. Disgusting.

You really couldnt make it up. A club has cheated for 20 years has bumped HMRC and other creditors for millions they liquidate get dropped one division and are back with no debt as strong as ever. Only in Scotland could this happen.

[MB62]

So the SPL delay their vote until the SFL club have voted.
The SFL clubs have nothing to vote on until the SPL clubs have their vote shirley?
What happens if the SFL clubs decide to then delay their vote until the SPL clubs vote?

Nobody is ever going to vote on anything to do with this Sevco 5088.

[marinello59]

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You really couldnt make it up. A club has cheated for 20 years has bumped HMRC and other creditors for millions they liquidate get dropped one division and are back with no debt as strong as ever. Only in Scotland could this happen.

It happens with businesses all over the world in a daily basis.

[PatHead]

This is like waiting on the postie for your exam results. Sure everything will be okay but just how good?

[Gatecrasher]

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So the SPL delay their vote until the SFL club have voted.
The SFL clubs have nothing to vote on until the SPL clubs have their vote shirley?
What happens if the SFL clubs decide to then delay their vote until the SPL clubs vote?

Nobody is ever going to vote on anything to do with this Sevco 5088.

Its a strange one
The SFL should put out a statement saying they cant vote until a decision is made by the SPL.

[JimBHibees]

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It happens with businesses all over the world in a daily basis.

Not in football, it doesnt.

[blackpoolhibs]

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It happens with businesses all over the world in a daily basis.

Would any newco football club be allowed to join any other football league in the world, other than at the bottom tier?

[marinello59]

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Would any newco football club be allowed to join any other football league in the world, other than at the bottom tier?

To be honest I don't know.

[Speedway]

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Would any newco football club be allowed to join any other football league in the world, other than at the bottom tier?

If there's big money involved and a biased governing body, yes.

[HibbySpurs]

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So the SPL delay their vote until the SFL club have voted.
The SFL clubs have nothing to vote on until the SPL clubs have their vote shirley?
What happens if the SFL clubs decide to then delay their vote until the SPL clubs vote?

Nobody is ever going to vote on anything to do with this Sevco 5088.

Exactly, maybe thats been the idea all along, nobody votes so in the end they go "ah **** it, just let them play in the SPL"

It'ls like watching the Chuckle Brothers just now "to me, to you, to me, to you"

[ScottB]

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You really couldnt make it up. A club has cheated for 20 years has bumped HMRC and other creditors for millions they liquidate get dropped one division and are back with no debt stronger than ever. Only in Scotland could this happen.

Fixed that for you.

Rangers have been crippled by debt for years, barely signing any players. New Rangers have no debt at all, so will be able to channel all their income into the squad. They can be much, much stronger within a couple seasons at most.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Its the end of the world as we know it.

Back to the Juniors and a few more trips to the EPL/SFL for me.

As I said earlier, I'm out of any financially motivated club. It is Amateur football with Vale of Atholl for me. Beer swigging, fag smoking, old bald guys chasing a ball (and that's just their biggest name former player)

[killie-hibby]

Transcription of email i sent to Rod Petrie this morning.

"There have been suggestions in the media that no vote will be taken (at todays meeting) regards SPL clubs decision to reject or agree to the soon to be liquidated Glasgow Rangers FC,s desire to remain in the SPL.
I fully expect Hibernian FC to insist on a transparent vote being taken today, and not at a later date. I would further expect Hibernian FC to vote NO against that aforementioned club remaining in the SPL thus continuing Hibernian FC,s stance, that Sporting Integrity is beyond purchase or cost.
I do realise that should the No vote win, then all SPL clubs will suffer a financial loss in the short term. It is my opinion that this short term loss can very quickly be made up by an increase in crowds via lapsed supporters returning to watch their respective teams play in a more competitive league/division where Sporting Integrity rather than cheating is the norm.
Like many other supporters I will never watch another SPL match if Glasgow Rangers win the vote.
I have supported Hibs since 1958. Your vote today will determine whether my support continues."

[R'Albin]

Sorry I struggle to keep up with this at times.. Is the reason they are postponing the vote so that division 1 get to vote first and -
from their point of view - hopefully accept them in, meaning that if they say no, the SPL chairmen have an opportunity to vote them in ?

[leggeto]

ive said all allong that they would change the rules if rangers or celtic got relegated,that seems to me that is whats going to happen,personaly i hope they rot like the **** they are

[TheEastTerrace]

Statement from Clyde FC - a must read

http://www.clydefc.co.uk/news/2012/07/04/4137/

[Hibrandenburg]

This whole saga is probably the push .I've been needing for a long time. My son is at an age where the green brainwashing can be reversed and there's plenty of choice to watch decent football here in Berlin.

I can't imagine how I'd ever explain to him why Scottish football is dominated by the bigot brothers and we let them do it.

When I think about all that my old fella did for Hibs, then it makes me sick to the gut that the present regime might concent to being thoroughly rogered in the name of money.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Statement from Clyde FC - a must read

http://www.clydefc.co.uk/news/2012/07/04/4137/

Their website seems to be struggling. It is a must read and well done to Clyde FC for offering the transparency that's so sadly missing from all the players in this saga:

Club Statement: SFL Meeting
Wed, 4th Jul 2012 12:34pm

The club sent two directors to attend the meeting of the SFL clubs yesterday and they have reported back to the Board. The meeting and conversations covered the best part of 5 hours but there were only a few overarching themes.

The clear message portrayed is that Scottish Football is in a very dark place indeed and there is simply no good solution to what is now a structural problem that has gone beyond a one dimensional issue of where Rangers should play next season. No matter what happens now there is going to be enormous fallout across the Scottish game. Whether some good can be extracted from the impending mess will depend entirely on the SPL clubs, guided by the currently absent leadership of the SFA.

Neil Doncaster wanted only one thing from the meeting, to get a steer from the SFL clubs whether they would allow Rangers into SFL1. He talked the clubs through a detailed explanation of where the SPL clubs would lose £16m next season if Rangers were not entered to the top division of the SFL. This was delivered as a matter of fact, it was a "reality". It seems that most, if not all, major sponsors of the SPL have exit clauses if either of the 'Old Firm' are not within the SPL. The total figure was not new, but the detail behind the number and its impact on individual clubs in the SPL was set out clearly. There were challenges made regarding the flip side of saving the central income from sponsors and media, the obvious impact of loss of supporters to the game who have strongly voiced their intent. Supporter reaction has not been factored in, again there are realities, the SPL clubs are waiting on their Sky cheques in August and clearly that was more important. Nowhere in the presentation was account taken on the impact to the finances of clubs, and more importantly the relevance of the game, should supporters stay at home.

The consequential impact on the SFL from the presentation was that the SFL would lose its entitlement to circa £2m per annum from the Settlement Agreement put together to compensate the SFL for the SPL breakaway, this was made very clear by Neil Doncaster. He told the clubs that if the SPL didn't have the money then they could not pay the SFL. The reality however, which was clear from the detailed figures, is that the SPL, whilst losing an enormous amount of funding, would have the cash to make payment; it is just that the SPL would not meet the legal obligation to the SFL as the cash would be used to finance the SPL teams.

The undeniable statement made on behalf of the SPL is commercially understandable. The SPL would not allow £16m to flow out of their coffers, the impact would be too catastrophic for the SPL clubs to contemplate and as such the only options are that Rangers enter SFL1 or, as a less attractive backstop, a breakaway SPL2 will be formed. There is no prospect, from an SPL point of view, that SFL3 can be allowed to happen.

Neil Doncaster was delivering a very unpalatable proposition and he did it clearly and effectively, hence the representatives of Clyde Football Club understood that the only thing that mattered was the impact on SPL clubs from the loss of money from media and sponsors.

It was to the credit of every SFL club, and probably to the surprise of Neil Doncaster, that nobody asked him to improve on the £1m offer.

The SFL clubs were given a steer for themselves by Neil Doncaster, if the SFL could not tell him how they might vote, then he would expect the SPL clubs not to vote at their meeting either.

There were a few new things learned in the meeting, not least that the rules of the SFL would allow any club accepted into the SFL, by a simple majority, to be placed in any division. The rules do not state, nor imply, that they must join at the bottom tier, only custom and practice around good governance and integrity has seen teams join in the bottom tier. In addition, the attendees at the meeting were left in absolutely no doubt whatsoever by Stewart Regan that if the SPL clubs voted to allow a Newco into the SPL then it would be blocked by the SFA refusing to transfer the SFA membership. It was however caveated well enough to make it less than an absolute statement. The meeting was full of implied actions and outcomes, the use of clever language when delivering the speeches allows anyone to defend with ‘that is not what I said'. However, nobody will have left the meeting with anything other than the very clear messages being put across. Denials of the substance of the message being delivered do not assist anyone in this absolutely dreadful situation.

There will be no winners. Any level of integrity for the sport will be lost by one outcome and financial collapse, we are told, will fall upon the SPL with the other. Sadly, the SFA and SPL have decided that whilst they say they are looking for a collaborative solution, they have very clearly made sure that by their own inaction that the blame will sit with the SFL - no matter what the outcome. The Board of the SFL are being put under intolerable pressure by the other bodies looking to avoid the implications of properly applying their own governance procedures.

In summary, the SFA implication is that there will be no entry to the SPL. The SPL implication is that it therefore has to be SFL1 with a bit of restructure, or an SPL2 with the rest of the SFL cut adrift. There were no other options. Whilst Stewart Regan said that the SFA did not favour an SPL2, there was no equivalent abhorrence of that proposal as was attached to the proposal for a Newco in the SPL, leaving the implication that the door remains wide open for the SPL to secure their £16m with or without the SFL.

The Board of the club will consider the feedback from its representatives and also the outcomes of the next few days and will keep its supporters fully appraised, but in the meantime see no reason to amend any previous comment.

[GreenCastle]

Club Statement: SFL Meeting from Clyde FC


Wed, 4th Jul 2012 12:34pm
The club sent two directors to attend the meeting of the SFL clubs yesterday and they have reported back to the Board. The meeting and conversations covered the best part of 5 hours but there were only a few overarching themes.


The clear message portrayed is that Scottish Football is in a very dark place indeed and there is simply no good solution to what is now a structural problem that has gone beyond a one dimensional issue of where Rangers should play next season. No matter what happens now there is going to be enormous fallout across the Scottish game. Whether some good can be extracted from the impending mess will depend entirely on the SPL clubs, guided by the currently absent leadership of the SFA.
Neil Doncaster wanted only one thing from the meeting, to get a steer from the SFL clubs whether they would allow Rangers into SFL1. He talked the clubs through a detailed explanation of where the SPL clubs would lose £16m next season if Rangers were not entered to the top division of the SFL. This was delivered as a matter of fact, it was a "reality". It seems that most, if not all, major sponsors of the SPL have exit clauses if either of the 'Old Firm' are not within the SPL. The total figure was not new, but the detail behind the number and its impact on individual clubs in the SPL was set out clearly. There were challenges made regarding the flip side of saving the central income from sponsors and media, the obvious impact of loss of supporters to the game who have strongly voiced their intent. Supporter reaction has not been factored in, again there are realities, the SPL clubs are waiting on their Sky cheques in August and clearly that was more important. Nowhere in the presentation was account taken on the impact to the finances of clubs, and more importantly the relevance of the game, should supporters stay at home.


The consequential impact on the SFL from the presentation was that the SFL would lose its entitlement to circa £2m per annum from the Settlement Agreement put together to compensate the SFL for the SPL breakaway, this was made very clear by Neil Doncaster. He told the clubs that if the SPL didn't have the money then they could not pay the SFL. The reality however, which was clear from the detailed figures, is that the SPL, whilst losing an enormous amount of funding, would have the cash to make payment; it is just that the SPL would not meet the legal obligation to the SFL as the cash would be used to finance the SPL teams.


The undeniable statement made on behalf of the SPL is commercially understandable. The SPL would not allow £16m to flow out of their coffers, the impact would be too catastrophic for the SPL clubs to contemplate and as such the only options are that Rangers enter SFL1 or, as a less attractive backstop, a breakaway SPL2 will be formed. There is no prospect, from an SPL point of view, that SFL3 can be allowed to happen.


Neil Doncaster was delivering a very unpalatable proposition and he did it clearly and effectively, hence the representatives of Clyde Football Club understood that the only thing that mattered was the impact on SPL clubs from the loss of money from media and sponsors.


It was to the credit of every SFL club, and probably to the surprise of Neil Doncaster, that nobody asked him to improve on the £1m offer.
The SFL clubs were given a steer for themselves by Neil Doncaster, if the SFL could not tell him how they might vote, then he would expect the SPL clubs not to vote at their meeting either.


There were a few new things learned in the meeting, not least that the rules of the SFL would allow any club accepted into the SFL, by a simple majority, to be placed in any division. The rules do not state, nor imply, that they must join at the bottom tier, only custom and practice around good governance and integrity has seen teams join in the bottom tier. In addition, the attendees at the meeting were left in absolutely no doubt whatsoever by Stewart Regan that if the SPL clubs voted to allow a Newco into the SPL then it would be blocked by the SFA refusing to transfer the SFA membership. It was however caveated well enough to make it less than an absolute statement. The meeting was full of implied actions and outcomes, the use of clever language when delivering the speeches allows anyone to defend with ‘that is not what I said'. However, nobody will have left the meeting with anything other than the very clear messages being put across. Denials of the substance of the message being delivered do not assist anyone in this absolutely dreadful situation.


There will be no winners. Any level of integrity for the sport will be lost by one outcome and financial collapse, we are told, will fall upon the SPL with the other. Sadly, the SFA and SPL have decided that whilst they say they are looking for a collaborative solution, they have very clearly made sure that by their own inaction that the blame will sit with the SFL - no matter what the outcome. The Board of the SFL are being put under intolerable pressure by the other bodies looking to avoid the implications of properly applying their own governance procedures.


In summary, the SFA implication is that there will be no entry to the SPL. The SPL implication is that it therefore has to be SFL1 with a bit of restructure, or an SPL2 with the rest of the SFL cut adrift. There were no other options. Whilst Stewart Regan said that the SFA did not favour an SPL2, there was no equivalent abhorrence of that proposal as was attached to the proposal for a Newco in the SPL, leaving the implication that the door remains wide open for the SPL to secure their £16m with or without the SFL.


The Board of the club will consider the feedback from its representatives and also the outcomes of the next few days and will keep its supporters fully appraised, but in the meantime see no reason to amend any previous comment.

[soda70]

the conspiracy theorists among the Rangers fans should be asking is it coincidence that the last 2 owners names are Green and Whyte? just s thought:)

[MagicSwirlingShip]

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Would any newco football club be allowed to join any other football league in the world, other than at the bottom tier?

Check out what happened in Argentina when Boca & River were in trouble. The league changed its dynamics to allow them to stay in the top flight. Our league is just as corrupt.

[blackpoolhibs]

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Check out what happened in Argentina when Boca & River were in trouble. The league changed its dynamics to allow them to stay in the top flight. Our league is just as corrupt.

I feel so much better knowing that.