Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[erskine-hibby]

Speshul case...n'nat!

[ancient hibee]

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Ehm, thanks, I think......


Could you maybe expand on that a wee bit?

Nope,actually I'm not sure of all the dates but it might be 14 or 21 days from date of liquidation until liquidators take over.Duff and Duffer have to square off the administration accounts and do something with dosh from Green whenever he pays it.There are also legal matters outstanding which Old Rangers are involved in and there will be the official transfer of assets.

[lapsedhibee]

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If the transfer of SPL share from dodo to newco is rejected, as expected, then newco should not be able to enter the SPL,whether that be 1,2 or12.

DodoFC seems appropriate for referring to the old hun club, but I fear Newco is insufficient to embrace the largely mythical nature of the 'new club' - no bank account, no league to play in, mibbe no ground, mibbe not enough players to form a team, etc, etc. UnicornFC, SnarkFC might be more appropriate, though both of these are insufficiently vile to be entirely apposite.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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What crisis?

Rangers are in crisis, thats it.

All of this talk about other clubs going bust if the new Rangers don't get a free bus pass back up the league is complete and utter drivel.

The only spineless people are the people that actually believe this crap.

Of which I am not one. I have never bought into the we need the OF to survive rubbish. In fact Scottish football would be a better place without them .... but it has to be both. As it is I have no problem having them around because you cant beat a win against the OF.

The biggest disgrace to emerge from this situation is that it seems clear that far too many clubs in this country hitched their financial wagons to the OF a long time ago, without ever stopping to think what would happen if one, or both, of them went bust or got relegated.

Having said that. If you think its just Rangers who are in crisis then you havnt been reading the posts on this board properly. You yourself have already stated that you know "huge numbers" of people who wont be back no matter how the Rangers newco situation pans out. If that statement is true and its not a crisis then exactly what is?

I love football and I love my club and I'm buggered if I will just give up. Unlike all these hundreds, or is it thousands, of folk you know who have quit already.

Like I said ......... spineless!

[Bostonhibby]

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alexthomson twittering that SFL President and Airdrie Chairman Jim Ballantyne is saying Airdrie won't vote on any Rangers Newco issue because of conflicts of interest

Wonder what that's all about?

Same Lodge , allegedly

[ancient hibee]

The people that run clubs have no idea how the average fan detests the OF.Directors mix in the boardroom and see the OF as a boost to the club coffers when they play.They realise rightly that the smaller clubs will never have the money for a sustained challenge and so are happy with a third place or a good cup run or even better are ecstatic if they can sell the OF a player or in our case half a team.They really do not understand how we hate this and consider us irrational because we play down the money side.And they're right because we are fans and will always be like that.So they better get used to it.Power to the people

[lapsedhibee]

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The people that run clubs have no idea how the average fan detests the OF.Directors mix in the boardroom and see the OF as a boost to the club coffers when they play.They realise rightly that the smaller clubs will never have the money for a sustained challenge and so are happy with a third place or a good cup run or even better are ecstatic if they can sell the OF a player or in our case half a team.They really do not understand how we hate this and consider us irrational because we play down the money side.And they're right because we are fans and will always be like that.So they better get used to it.Power to the people

Right on, Wolfie!

[ScottB]

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The people that run clubs have no idea how the average fan detests the OF.Directors mix in the boardroom and see the OF as a boost to the club coffers when they play.They realise rightly that the smaller clubs will never have the money for a sustained challenge and so are happy with a third place or a good cup run or even better are ecstatic if they can sell the OF a player or in our case half a team.They really do not understand how we hate this and consider us irrational because we play down the money side.And they're right because we are fans and will always be like that.So they better get used to it.Power to the people

On the other hand, the clubs have clearly listened to their supports when across the country we declared it was very much a case of us or them. From a purely business point of view, it makes sense to listen to us and they appear to have done so, at least to an extent.

[Hibercelona]

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Of which I am not one. I have never bought into the we need the OF to survive rubbish. In fact Scottish football would be a better place without them .... but it has to be both. As it is I have no problem having them around because you cant beat a win against the OF.

The biggest disgrace to emerge from this situation is that it seems clear that far too many clubs in this country hitched their financial wagons to the OF a long time ago, without ever stopping to think what would happen if one, or both, of them went bust or got relegated.

Having said that. If you think its just Rangers who are in crisis then you havnt been reading the posts on this board properly. You yourself have already stated that you know "huge numbers" of people who wont be back no matter how the Rangers newco situation pans out. If that statement is true and its not a crisis then exactly what is?

I love football and I love my club and I'm buggered if I will just give up. Unlike all these hundreds, or is it thousands, of folk you know who have quit already.

Like I said ......... spineless!

Which is my point.

Fans of other clubs have had enough of this bending over for the OF at every given opportunity.

Right now, only Rangers are in crisis, but the entire game will fall into crisis if Rangers are allowed to just waltz straight back in again, because people have had enough of the blatant favouritism of the OF.

If the new Rangers get the special treatment and are allowed to just walk straight into the SFL next season, then other clubs are going to suffer, because fans will just stop going.

[Green Reaper]

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DodoFC seems appropriate for referring to the old hun club, but I fear Newco is insufficient to embrace the largely mythical nature of the 'new club' - no bank account, no league to play in, mibbe no ground, mibbe not enough players to form a team, etc, etc. UnicornFC, SnarkFC might be more appropriate, though both of these are insufficiently vile to be entirely apposite.

Maybe 'Bhuta FC', seems like an appropriate mythical beast

[JeMeSouviens]

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Gretna resigned from the league of their own accord, they would have stayed in SFL3 if they had been able to guarantee playing their fixtures.

They were nominally in SFL3 before being liquidated (desperately still trying to find a new owner for the original club). There was never any suggestion that a successor club "newco" would be in SFL3.

[tamig]

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This may be a consequence of the forced merger of Caledonian and Thistle. I was told by an Inverness resident that a lot of supporters (from both Caledonian and Thistle) defected to Ross County after the merger.

And there were a lot of Caley and Thistle fans who walked away from the game for good.

[Bostonhibby]

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And there were a lot of Caley and Thistle fans who walked away from the game for good.

Actually met one when we played St Mirren 2 seasons ago in Paisley - he switched to St Mirren way back then and travels down for games when he can. He had to leave earlier than the rest for the journey hame - Must have been pretty pissed of to make that switch but fair play to him for not becoming a glory hunter..

[greenginger]

What I never see properly explained by the MSM is how a couple of visits a season from the ugly sisters is some sort of manna from heaven for all other clubs in the Scottish game.

No account is taken of the massive numbers of football fans lost to their local clubs support because they are boarding buses to where ever their choice of bigotry is being celebrated or as is more likely, they spend their Saturdays in a pub, dressed in O. F. tops bragging how great their "team" is without ever seeing any live football from one year to the next.

It is bad enough in Edinburgh with the limited number of glory hunters in our population but a visit to the likes of Dunfermline, Falkirk, Dundee or Kilmarnock to name a few, shows the extent of this cancer in our game and how it kills any meaningful competition to the uglies.

Any neutering of the O. F. can only be to the benefit of Scottish Football in the long term, but this view is considered a heresy by the MSM in our sick little Country.

[Hibercelona]

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What I never see properly explained by the MSM is how a couple of visits a season from the ugly sisters is some sort of manna from heaven for all other clubs in the Scottish game.

No account is taken of the massive numbers of football fans lost to their local clubs support because they are boarding buses to where ever their choice of bigotry is being celebrated or as is more likely, they spend their Saturdays in a pub, dressed in O. F. tops bragging how great their "team" is without ever seeing any live football from one year to the next.

It is bad enough in Edinburgh with the limited number of glory hunters in our population but a visit to the likes of Dunfermline, Falkirk, Dundee or Kilmarnock to name a few, shows the extent of this cancer in our game and how it kills any meaningful competition to the uglies.

Any neutering of the O. F. can only be to the benefit of Scottish Football in the long term, but this view is considered a heresy by the MSM in our sick little Country.

You're right about Dunfermline.

[RyeSloan]

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Actually met one when we played St Mirren 2 seasons ago in Paisley - he switched to St Mirren way back then and travels down for games when he can. He had to leave earlier than the rest for the journey hame - Must have been pretty pissed of to make that switch but fair play to him for not becoming a glory hunter..

Missing the logic here...so he was a Caley or a Thisle fan and when they merged instead of supporting the new entity he chose to support St Mirren? And this proves what exactly?

[greenginger]

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You're right about Dunfermline.

I was over in Dunfermline on a Saturday during the close season last summer ( Wife wanted to see some different shops ) and I had a stroll along the High Street. It was wall to wall Hun tops with a few Hoops and English Premiership tops for variety but not one single Pars top to be seen and they had just been promoted.

What chance does local clubs have when all media outlets praise this perversion of football as a great asset in Scotland.

We need a new Media once the Huns have been put where they belong.

[Hibercelona]

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I was over in Dunfermline on a Saturday during the close season last summer ( Wife wanted to see some different shops ) and I had a stroll along the High Street. It was wall to wall Hun tops with a few Hoops and English Premiership tops for variety but not one single Pars top to be seen and they had just been promoted.

What chance does local clubs have when all media outlets praise this perversion of football as a great asset in Scotland.

We need a new Media once the Huns have been put where they belong.

A newco media sounds like a smashing idea.

A media group that actually tells it as it is for a change.

One can dream eh.

[jgl07]

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Missing the logic here...so he was a Caley or a Thisle fan and when they merged instead of supporting the new entity he chose to support St Mirren? And this proves what exactly?

It proves that football supporters are not like supermarket customers.

When Morrisons bought Safeway a large proportion of Safeway customers switched to Morrisons although a small proportion went to Asda or Tesco or Sainsbury. The same would not be true of merger between football teams.

If Hibs had merged with Hearts I would not have supported the new club regardless if it was called Hearts, Edinburgh United or whatever.

Inverness are probably the only example of football clubs merging. It took the club a long time to recover from that and Ross County were probably the main beneficiary.

[HFC_1875]

@alextomo: #c4news tomorrow story on interests, conflicts, Campbell Ogilvie, Donald Findlay and Jim Ballantyne - Airdrie, Cowdenbeath, Hearts - and RFC

[greenginger]

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A newco media sounds like a smashing idea.

A media group that actually tells it as it is for a change.

One can dream eh.

I doubt even Martin Luther King would have been optimistic enough to dream that.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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Which is my point.

Fans of other clubs have had enough of this bending over for the OF at every given opportunity.

Right now, only Rangers are in crisis, but the entire game will fall into crisis if Rangers are allowed to just waltz straight back in again, because people have had enough of the blatant favouritism of the OF.

If the new Rangers get the special treatment and are allowed to just walk straight into the SFL next season, then other clubs are going to suffer, because fans will just stop going.

Not picking on you mate ... I know other folk have said this.

As far as I am aware they will have to apply for election as a brand new club. So it will not be just walking in. If they have the ground and fan base and a team even a 10th of what they have now then they fit the bill perfectly and will be miles ahead of any other candidates.

We all know that theres a hell of a lot more to it than just longevity. And correct me if I'm wrong, is it not an open secret that one of the clubs who voted agains Gala Fairydean getting elected to the SFL many years ago was Hibs. The case being that we didnt want any chance of the Fairydean attracting fans from the Borders who's natural gravitation was towards ER. Not much thought about purely football matters or deserving cases there methinks.

Nae newco in the SPL ......... Oh OK then.

Nae newco in SFL1 ...... Oh OK then.

Nae newco in SFL3 ...... ?

Its starting to look like mob justice to me ..... I prefer mine tempered with mercy and delivered by an auld guy in a funny wig in a fancy building ..... not by a load of people with an axe to grind a lamp post and a dirty rope.

[Part/Time Supporter]

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If the SFL reject the Div 1 con for obvious good reasons, then I'd be astonished in the SPL went ahead with an SPL 2. They will have pissed off the SPL fans, the SFL fans and the SFL Chairmen - not exactly a great backdrop for forcing through a change for the benefit of ONE bankrupt club. It would be suicide for the SFA/SPL to even try it.

So, IMHO, if the SFL reject the Newco proposal, then Newco will have to apply to join the SFL in the proper way - as it should have ben from day one. And all those who tried to circumvent the rules will have to carry the shame.

SPL2 is a bluff.

[HFC 0-7]

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[/B]Not picking on you mate ... I know other folk have said this.

As far as I am aware they will have to apply for election as a brand new club. So it will not be just walking in. If they have the ground and fan base and a team even a 10th of what they have now then they fit the bill perfectly and will be miles ahead of any other candidates.

We all know that theres a hell of a lot more to it than just longevity. And correct me if I'm wrong, is it not an open secret that one of the clubs who voted agains Gala Fairydean getting elected to the SFL many years ago was Hibs. The case being that we didnt want any chance of the Fairydean attracting fans from the Borders who's natural gravitation was towards ER. Not much thought about purely football matters or deserving cases there methinks.

Nae newco in the SPL ......... Oh OK then.

Nae newco in SFL1 ...... Oh OK then.

Nae newco in SFL3 ...... ?

Its starting to look like mob justice to me ..... I prefer mine tempered with mercy and delivered by an auld guy in a funny wig in a fancy building ..... not by a load of people with an axe to grind a lamp post and a dirty rope.

The only preferential treatment they may get is if there is a rule in the SFL applications that they need x amount years of audited accounts. I am not sure if they have a rulle like that or not. If there is not a rule like that then Rangers applying for SFL3 and getting accepted is not preferential treatment because they are rangers, its because they tick more boxes than other clubs that may apply.

The grey area for me is are they or are they not the same club as the old co. If they are the same (same history etc) and they have to deal with the punishments for the investigations still to come, then I would say that allowing that team into the SFL with those potential punishments hanging over them could be risky. If they are still to be punished for dual contracts etc, then they would be running the risk of getting launched out of any league they are in and the SFL would be in atricky position if they accept them then the punishment is announced mid season.

FWIW, I think they wont be classed as the same club as before and therefore wont carry the punishments of old co, therefore they would probably be accepted into the SFL3 and rightly so, although I would still like for them to be wiped off the face of the planet!

[Eyrie]

If the SPL then attempts to introduce SPL where will it find the teams to play there? The bigger First Division clubs have already come out against Sevco 5088 getting direct entry to their league, so I can't see them deserting their principles and succumbing to blackmail.

[Saorsa]

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If the SPL then attempts to introduce SPL where will it find the teams to play there? The bigger First Division clubs have already come out against Sevco 5088 getting direct entry to their league, so I can't see them deserting their principles and succumbing to blackmail.

For a while we were conned in tae thinking some in the SPL had principles, what a sham that turned out tae be.

[jgl07]

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If the SPL then attempts to introduce SPL where will it find the teams to play there? The bigger First Division clubs have already come out against Sevco 5088 getting direct entry to their league, so I can't see them deserting their principles and succumbing to blackmail.

Well SPL2 is not going to happen before 2013-14 and will presumably require an 11-1 majority from the SPL and a 22-8 majority in the SFL. It will also have to be sanctioned by the SFA. The fixtures are out (well sort of out) and the season kicks off in four weeks time.

If the two SPL Divisions have at least 30 clubs between them, I would have no objection to 'Rangers' coming into SPL2 provided that they come top of SFL3 in 2012-13.

[RyeSloan]

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It proves that football supporters are not like supermarket customers.

When Morrisons bought Safeway a large proportion of Safeway customers switched to Morrisons although a small proportion went to Asda or Tesco or Sainsbury. The same would not be true of merger between football teams.

If Hibs had merged with Hearts I would not have supported the new club regardless if it was called Hearts, Edinburgh United or whatever.

Inverness are probably the only example of football clubs merging. It took the club a long time to recover from that and Ross County were probably the main beneficiary.

Surely supporting Ross county instead of the merged club would be like supporting Hearts if Hibs had merged with Meadowbank Thistle!!

iirc the merger was exactly that, a merger not a takeover. Hibs will never voluntarily merge with Hearts so the two scenarios can't really be compared although I'm sure there was plenty angst at the time!

If the dude didn't fancy supporting the merged entity then that's his choice although to be honest if he felt that strongly about his support for either Thistle or Caley then I'm unsure how he could just switch that allegiance to another club...using your example it's like supporting Kilmarnock because Hibs and Hearts have merged.

Anyway I digress and it's hardly relevant to the OP

[Hibercelona]

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Surely supporting Ross county instead of the merged club would be like supporting Hearts if Hibs had merged with Meadowbank Thistle!!

iirc the merger was exactly that, a merger not a takeover. Hibs will never voluntarily merge with Hearts so the two scenarios can't really be compared although I'm sure there was plenty angst at the time!

If the dude didn't fancy supporting the merged entity then that's his choice although to be honest if he felt that strongly about his support for either Thistle or Caley then I'm unsure how he could just switch that allegiance to another club...using your example it's like supporting Kilmarnock because Hibs and Hearts have merged.

Anyway I digress and it's hardly relevant to the OP

I would support the pars if Hibs done the unthinkable.

[Sergey]

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Well SPL2 is not going to happen before 2013-14 and will presumably require an 11-1 majority from the SPL and a 22-8 majority in the SFL. It will also have to be sanctioned by the SFA. The fixtures are out (well sort of out) and the season kicks off in four weeks time.

If the two SPL Divisions have at least 30 clubs between them, I would have no objection to 'Rangers' coming into SPL2 provided that they come top of SFL3 in 2012-13.

I think that that would be the consensus amongst the fans of all clubs in Scotland.

This has probably been stated umpteen hundred pages ago, but anything else to promote Newco sooner would simply be a fudge.

I still wouldn't wager money on how this will go, though.