Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[green glory]

Anyone got a link to the JT article? It's ok I've got my diamond jubilee sickbag, so I'm prepared.

[garlic]

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The article contains direct quotes from Walter Smith. Im assuming this is the same Walter Smith who was cheerleading how greatit would be for Scotland if OldHun went south?

Vile.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footbal...6908-21751069/

[alexedwards]

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A no vote is as good as a yes vote I bet

My understanding is abstention = a "no" vote.

[JohnStephens91]

I tried reading the Jim Traynor article, I gave up from sheer anger.

[dangermouse]

A lot of discussion has gone around Sevco entering the SFL at either league 1 or 3. At present it looks like the entry to SFL 1 will be rejected but the blackmail document sent out stated that if SFL 1 was rejected then SPL 2 would be set up (and IMHO would be a disaster for Scottish Football).

Little has been discussed on this board about the likelihood of SPL 2 and I was wondering what the consensus of opinion was around this actually happening. I'd hate to think that this option was allowed to go forward allowing Sevco back door entry to SPL 1 in only 1 season.

[StevieC]

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alexthomson twittering that SFL President and Airdrie Chairman Jim Ballantyne is saying Airdrie won't vote on any Rangers Newco issue because of conflicts of interest

So if the vote is to bend the rules to allow Rangers in, does an abstention effectively make it a NO vote?

[Spike Mandela]

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I tried reading the Jim Traynor article, I gave up from sheer anger.

Social media has made people like Traynor an irrelevance and he's hating it. Previously he and his ilk could dictate the agenda but now the fans of clubs are forcing the agenda and influencing club chairmen themselves.

Traynor will keep banging on but empty vessels make the most noise.

[Spike Mandela]

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The innocent explanation is that Airdrie, having lost the playoff final, would be likely to move up to division 1 if Sevco are voted into division 3. Other explanations are possible.

Is it not because Ballantyne is Vice President of the SFL?

[ScottB]

Interestingly, it's in the SFL Rules that abstentions are not allowed at General Meetings.

So either one of the SFL Chairmen don't know their own rules (perish the thought) or more making it up as we go along...

[alexedwards]

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So if the vote is to bend the rules to allow Rangers in, does an abstention effectively make it a NO vote?

Ballantyne has a dual interest - abstention is only option for him and it would be a "no" vote - although post above suggesting
abstentions not allowed - puts him in a pickle then.

[Matty_Jack04]

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A lot of discussion has gone around Sevco entering the SFL at either league 1 or 3. At present it looks like the entry to SFL 1 will be rejected but the blackmail document sent out stated that if SFL 1 was rejected then SPL 2 would be set up (and IMHO would be a disaster for Scottish Football).

Little has been discussed on this board about the likelihood of SPL 2 and I was wondering what the consensus of opinion was around this actually happening. I'd hate to think that this option was allowed to go forward allowing Sevco back door entry to SPL 1 in only 1 season.

Creating an SPL2 means nothing if there's no fans going to the games
The men in charge here need to waken up to that fact fast or you'l be correct with it being a disaster. The paying punter wants change not more corruption and changes to suit agendas if they push that through the games dead.

[Caversham Green]

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That's the point I'm making though, would it?

I suspect the running costs of Rangers are quite substantial. Without knowing how much they will be paying in wages, and how many supporters are going to turn up, any business plan is pure guess-work.
They may be able to produce a business plan on projected figures that gives a £5m profit, in reality it might end up a £5m loss.

At the moment ex-players and ex-managers are whipping the support into a frenzy and telling them not to buy season tickets and to oust Green. If, for example, Brown and Smith start up a new company and ask the fans to back them instead of Green there is every chance that Green goes bust and Sevco are unable to complete their fixtures. There is also the July 31st date that was banded about that Green could pull out of the proposed deal. This date may well have been based on the CVA but if there are any faults in the agreement that a lawyer could pick up on then it may still be a get-out date that Green could utilise.

This is purely conjecture of course, and may not happen, but the total uncertaintity of the Rangers situation I think needs to be taken into account, and on that basis I cant see how a business plan from Sevco could be viewed any better than a business plan from a well run, well organised, profitable football team.

It seems Rangers have sold about 1000 season tickets - that's appalling as far as they're concerned, but probably four or five times as many as any competing club could offer and they have a potential fan base of 40,000+ (the emphasis on potential) and their name alone means they are likely to attract a higher standard of player than other SFL3 clubs or candidates. It's not difficult to show that Rangers are a more attractive candidate for SFL membership than Gala Fairydean, so if Green can show that the costs can be covered then they are a shoe-in. As Green is only in it for the money he will be able to show the costs can be covered otherwise he'd just pull out.

Maybe that's exactly what will happen unless RFC are sneaked in to SFL1 and that's why they're all so keen to get them there. Time will tell.

[Green Reaper]

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Creating an SPL2 means nothing if there's no fans going to the games
The men in charge here need to waken up to that factd fast or you'l be correct with it being a disaster. The paying punter wants change not more corruption and changes to suit agendas if they push that through the games dead.

The SPL2 proposal is a fiasco. If the transfer of SPL share from dodo to newco is rejected, as expected, then newco should not be able to enter the SPL,whether that be 1,2 or12. If the creation of an SPL2 means more SPL shares then they should go to current SFL teams and not to a team that,at present, only exists in the sycophantic delusions of journalistic hacks an hun sympathetic officials

[jgl07]

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It seems Rangers have sold about 1000 season tickets - that's appalling as far as they're concerned, but probably four or five times as many as any competing club could offer and they have a potential fan base of 40,000+ (the emphasis on potential) and their name alone means they are likely to attract a higher standard of player than other SFL3 clubs or candidates. It's not difficult to show that Rangers are a more attractive candidate for SFL membership than Gala Fairydean, so if Green can show that the costs can be covered then they are a shoe-in. As Green is only in it for the money he will be able to show the costs can be covered otherwise he'd just pull out.

I wonder if the Green bid was based on the assumption that Naismith, Whittakar, and Davies could be sold with nominal transfer fees on to generate a couple of million pounds.

As a condition of an SFA license they may have to pick up the football related debts to the likes of Rapid and Hearts. If not FIFA will be on the case of the SFA.

Green may be able to argue that Rangers will generate revenue but that will not be demonstrable until the boycott by supporters and sponsors is ended. Judging by the ham fisted way that he has gone about even getting a bank account to deposit the season ticket money does not fill me with confidence. Also his failure to recruit any of the numerous Rangers' "legends" to his cause was a major blunder.

[Onion]

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A lot of discussion has gone around Sevco entering the SFL at either league 1 or 3. At present it looks like the entry to SFL 1 will be rejected but the blackmail document sent out stated that if SFL 1 was rejected then SPL 2 would be set up (and IMHO would be a disaster for Scottish Football).

Little has been discussed on this board about the likelihood of SPL 2 and I was wondering what the consensus of opinion was around this actually happening. I'd hate to think that this option was allowed to go forward allowing Sevco back door entry to SPL 1 in only 1 season.

If the SFL reject the Div 1 con for obvious good reasons, then I'd be astonished in the SPL went ahead with an SPL 2. They will have pissed off the SPL fans, the SFL fans and the SFL Chairmen - not exactly a great backdrop for forcing through a change for the benefit of ONE bankrupt club. It would be suicide for the SFA/SPL to even try it.

So, IMHO, if the SFL reject the Newco proposal, then Newco will have to apply to join the SFL in the proper way - as it should have ben from day one. And all those who tried to circumvent the rules will have to carry the shame.

[cabbageandribs1875]

apparently green was on SSN thanking the players for being 'morally upstanding' WTF does he know about morals ffs

[Baba O'riley]

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If the SFL reject the Div 1 con for obvious good reasons, then I'd be astonished in the SPL went ahead with an SPL 2. They will have pissed off the SPL fans, the SFL fans and the SFL Chairmen - not exactly a great backdrop for forcing through a change for the benefit of ONE bankrupt club. It would be suicide for the SFA/SPL to even try it.

So, IMHO, if the SFL reject the Newco proposal, then Newco will have to apply to join the SFL in the proper way - as it should have ben from day one. And all those who tried to circumvent the rules will have to carry the shame.

Pissing off the fans doesn't seem to concern the SPL/SPL/SFL. They seem to come up with more inventive ways of making us more angry and disgusted with the game. Agree it would be suicide, but part of me thinks they're that determined to do whatever they can to save "newco", that they'll steamroll ahead with SPL2 regardless. I just hope that all other SPL clubs resign in protest, and leave SPL1 and SPL2 with "newco" in it. Or with a bit of luck, "newco" and celtc. Then the SPL/Sky deal will get what they want; infirm games every week and they can leave the rest of Scottish football to get on with it; without the needless corruption.

Happy to be proved wrong with their insistance of an SPL2, but every time a light appears in the tunnel that this will work out for the good of Scottish football, the bulb seems to blow!

[StevieC]

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It's not difficult to show that Rangers are a more attractive candidate for SFL membership than Gala Fairydean, so if Green can show that the costs can be covered then they are a shoe-in. As Green is only in it for the money he will be able to show the costs can be covered otherwise he'd just pull out.

But with no guaranteed income (all you can do is guess) then Green would need to be guaranteeing that he has funds to cover the shortfall. As you say though, he's in it for the money and would walk if he couldn't cover costs. If the week before the season kicks off the supporters decide that they are going to boycott the games till he leaves (and they are not shy about throwing boycotts around) then Sevco will fold, Green will walk, and there will once again be fixture chaos.

My point is, that all this uncertaintity and potential fixture chaos leads me to believe that other applications (if looked at objectively) could be a better proposition than the Rangers one .. at the moment.

[Lungo--Drom]

Maybe the clown could get a job somewhere like the Democratic People's Republic of Korea? The general populace would have no choice but to listen to him as he read out the scores of the King Il-Sung Glorious Leader 5-a-sides league.

Actually now I feel bad for even thinking of forcing the bullsh***ing pest on anyone, although the DPRK would be an ideal place for him to peddle his drivel.

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Social media has made people like Traynor an irrelevance and he's hating it. Previously he and his ilk could dictate the agenda but now the fans of clubs are forcing the agenda and influencing club chairmen themselves.

Traynor will keep banging on but empty vessels make the most noise.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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Social media has made people like Traynor an irrelevance and he's hating it. Previously he and his ilk could dictate the agenda but now the fans of clubs are forcing the agenda and influencing club chairmen themselves.

Traynor will keep banging on but empty vessels make the most noise.

Very true. We are no longer limited to where we get our "News" from. Just like the dinosaurs these guys will become extinct.

[StevieC]

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that they'll steamroll ahead with SPL2 regardless

For this to happen the current SPL teams would have to agree to share the SPL money with another 10 teams.

Given that the SKY deal is already in doubt and there is reduced income, with no Rangers in the SPL, I very much doubt that an SPL2 will even get beyond the fantasy stage in the pages of the Daily Record.

[Baba O'riley]

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For this to happen the current SPL teams would have to agree to share the SPL money with another 10 teams.

Given that the SKY deal is already in doubt and there is reduced income, with no Rangers in the SPL, I very much doubt that an SPL2 will even get beyond the fantasy stage in the pages of the Daily Record.

good point; here's hoping you're right

[NAE NOOKIE]

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We wouldnae be having it because any other club would have been punished properly by the authorities by now and kicked out and made tae start like Gretna in the east of Scotland league or equivalent. There's be nae bribery or blackmail threats tae let any other club back in at SFL 1, they wouldnae even get in at SFL 3.

Gretna resigned from the league of their own accord, they would have stayed in SFL3 if they had been able to guarantee playing their fixtures.

[Hibercelona]

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Pissing off the fans doesn't seem to concern the SPL/SPL/SFL. They seem to come up with more inventive ways of making us more angry and disgusted with the game. Agree it would be suicide, but part of me thinks they're that determined to do whatever they can to save "newco", that they'll steamroll ahead with SPL2 regardless. I just hope that all other SPL clubs resign in protest, and leave SPL1 and SPL2 with "newco" in it. Or with a bit of luck, "newco" and celtc. Then the SPL/Sky deal will get what they want; infirm games every week and they can leave the rest of Scottish football to get on with it; without the needless corruption.

Happy to be proved wrong with their insistance of an SPL2, but every time a light appears in the tunnel that this will work out for the good of Scottish football, the bulb seems to blow!

Thats exactly what clubs should do if this farce is allowed to happen.

Every other club should just tell the SFA to shove it and form their own temporal league until the corruption is put to an end.

Seems like an extreme idea, but it will take extreme measures to stamp out this level of corruption.

Then they'll learn just how powerless they are in a 2 team league.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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Allowing Newco straight back into the SFL without the need for registration could effectively kill the game off for every other club, barr the OF.

I already know a huge number of people who have stated that they won't be back now to watch their teams, regardless of the outcome now.

Rangers won't save the game, they will save it for 2 clubs, while the rest are left to rot because their fanbases have simply had enough of this s***e.

Football is nothing without its fans, no matter how much money is pumped into it.

The game is effectively dead.

Unbelievable !!!

So just because the game has entered a crisis, the final outcome of which has yet to materialise "huge numbers" of folk have decided to give up. I would guess that that is a gross exaggeration, I find it hard to accept that my fellow football supporters are so bloody spineless.

[Keith_M]

As it says on the tin. Could anyone who is familiar with these matters help explain.

As the CVA wasn't succesful, why are Duff and Phelps still in charge of Rangers and they are still in Admininstration, instead of being liquidated? The CVA decision was quite a while back, so I don't understand why they're still there, presumably charging fees, and the liquidators have not yet replaced them. Is there any genuine reason why this should be the case?

[ancient hibee]

Statutory timescales.

[Keith_M]

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Statutory timescales.

Ehm, thanks, I think......


Could you maybe expand on that a wee bit?

[leggeto]

because they are rangers

[Hibercelona]

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Unbelievable !!!

So just because the game has entered a crisis, the final outcome of which has yet to materialise "huge numbers" of folk have decided to give up. I would guess that that is a gross exaggeration, I find it hard to accept that my fellow football supporters are so bloody spineless.

What crisis?

Rangers are in crisis, thats it.

All of this talk about other clubs going bust if the new Rangers don't get a free bus pass back up the league is complete and utter drivel.

The only spineless people are the people that actually believe this crap.