Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[CropleyWasGod]

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http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/107524-r...dministrators/


Duff and Phelps might be getting their collars felt by other Boys in Blue.


And not before time.

No suggestion of criminal behaviour in there. Lord Hodge wants to clear up the question of conflict of interest.

[greenginger]

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No suggestion of criminal behaviour in there. Lord Hodge wants to clear up the question of conflict of interest.

Who knows what is going to come crawling out when more stones are overturned. This saga will keep the legal profession handsomely remunerated for years.

[Paisley Hibby]

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Here is the rule which address the issue of promotion and relegation - the bit I've linked above is a Miscellaneous addition to address the issue of membership being ceased for any reason (including liquidation). Combine the 2, and none of Sevco, Dundee or Dunfermline have any right to be in the SPL.

"The association football clubs eligible to participate in the League in any Season shall, subject to the Articles of Association and Rules, be those Clubs which participated in the League in the immediately preceding Season, except that, subject to Rules A2.2, A2.3 and A2.4, the Club finishing in last place in the League in the immediately preceding Season shall not be eligible to participate in the League and shall be relegated to the SFL and the Candidate Club shall be promoted from the SFL and admitted entry to the League."

So correctly, Dunfermline were relegated from the SPL and the Candidate Club (Ross County) have been promoted in their stead.

Dundee are no more eligible than Dunfermline in claiming right to the SPL as they neither played in the league in the preceeding season nor are they the Candidate Club.

There really is no precedent in the SPL rules for this situation to be honest!

Don´t see why SPL can´t simply expunge enough points retrospectively (under rule H5) to make Oldhun the club finishing last. Ross County then get their share and Dunfermline stay up as they were not in last place. There´s then no decision for the SPL to make on a Newco. It all becomes the SFL´s problem :-)

[joe breezy]

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Don´t see why SPL can´t simply expunge enough points retrospectively (under rule H5) to make Oldhun the club finishing last. Ross County then get their share and Dunfermline stay up as they were not in last place. There´s then no decision for the SPL to make on a Newco. It all becomes the SFL´s problem :-)

The club formerly knows as Rangers are dead / soon to be liquidised. That's all that matters.

There is a new club called Sevco, who aren't allowed to use the name Rangers, that own Ibrox apparently (although even that may be up for debate). Sevco are a new football club that may want to use a name that will attract former Rangers fans / Huns.
So Govan Dodgers / Her Majesties Royals / whatever they want to call themselves are a new club that need to apply to the SFL by the usual procedures...

That's how I see it anyway

[Paisley Hibby]

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The club formerly knows as Rangers are dead / soon to be liquidised. That's all that matters.

There is a new club called Sevco, who aren't allowed to use the name Rangers, that own Ibrox apparently (although even that may be up for debate). Sevco are a new football club that may want to use a name that will attract former Rangers fans / Huns.
So Govan Dodgers / Her Majesties Royals / whatever they want to call themselves are a new club that need to apply to the SFL by the usual procedures...

That's how I see it anyway

I agree - what I was suggesting was that SPL expunge the Old Huns points from last season so that they are recorded as having come last. That lets Dunfermline stay up, Ross County get promoted and they can tell Sevco that their application to take over the Old Huns place in the SPL is invalid.

[kenny-55]

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I agree - what I was suggesting was that SPL expunge the Old Huns points from last season so that they are recorded as having come last. That lets Dunfermline stay up, Ross County get promoted and they can tell Sevco that their application to take over the Old Huns place in the SPL is invalid.

I was thinking that this not a bad idea saves any voting nonsense as we know how that will turn out a (no) dunfy get saved ross county come up
currant buns in the wilderness and no option to play next season , then expelled later on when all the *rap comes out
happy days

[Captain Trips]

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The club formerly knows as Rangers are dead / soon to be liquidised. That's all that matters.

There is a new club called Sevco, who aren't allowed to use the name Rangers, that own Ibrox apparently (although even that may be up for debate). Sevco are a new football club that may want to use a name that will attract former Rangers fans / Huns.
So Govan Dodgers / Her Majesties Royals / whatever they want to call themselves are a new club that need to apply to the SFL by the usual procedures...

That's how I see it anyway

Indeed that is why the vote on the 4th is wrong regardless of result. Deciding if a club (new club) can just get 3 straight promotions into SPL as they will atttract cash is wrong on every level.

[joe breezy]

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I agree - what I was suggesting was that SPL expunge the Old Huns points from last season so that they are recorded as having come last. That lets Dunfermline stay up, Ross County get promoted and they can tell Sevco that their application to take over the Old Huns place in the SPL is invalid.

Ah, with you now, it's like being a lawyer trying to keep up with all of this

[cabbageandribs1875]

where's donkey doncaster been hiding lately not heard his words of wisdom for a few weeks now :(

[Andy74]

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Indeed that is why the vote on the 4th is wrong regardless of result. Deciding if a club (new club) can just get 3 straight promotions into SPL as they will atttract cash is wrong on every level.

SPL is membership based though so that's not really true in practice.

[StevieC]

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where's donkey doncaster been hiding lately not heard his words of wisdom for a few weeks now :(

He'll be keeping a low profile dreading the point where it transpires that the SKY deal, the one he was so proud of, isn't worth the paper it is written on!

There should be a vote of no confidence with this guy and he should be emptied and replaced ASAP!

[kenny-55]

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He'll be keeping a low profile dreading the point where it transpires that the SKY deal, the one he was so proud of, isn't worth the paper it is written on!

There should be a vote of no confidence with this guy and he should be emptied and replaced ASAP!

totally agree this guy is a waste of space

[cabbageandribs1875]

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He'll be keeping a low profile dreading the point where it transpires that the SKY deal, the one he was so proud of, isn't worth the paper it is written on!

There should be a vote of no confidence with this guy and he should be emptied and replaced ASAP!

oor rod hired him, so it's only fair he should propose to firing him as well i'm sure lots of us all around the country would like a little more of the spotlight put on ogilvie as well, he's probably in the same hideout as doncaster, or maybe he has sought asylum in SFA HQ

[johnrebus]

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No, but the transfer to them can be approved under the articles - they are not specifically ineligible in the way that Dunfermline are. In fact on a strict reading of the rules/Articles Dunfermline are the only football club in Scotland that can't participate in the SPL, because the other requirements can be waived.

Neither Dunfermline Athletic or their fans want to be in SPL next season.

With eight derby matches to look forward to, they have already sold more season tickets than last term.

[Tynie01011973]

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oor rod hired him, so it's only fair he should propose to firing him as well i'm sure lots of us all around the country would like a little more of the spotlight put on ogilvie as well, he's probably in the same hideout as doncaster, or maybe he has sought asylum in SFA HQ

It will be interesting to see how many of the establishment apologists will survive once the fan's backlash turns the spotlight on them

[Brando7]

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I was thinking that this not a bad idea saves any voting nonsense as we know how that will turn out a (no) dunfy get saved ross county come up
currant buns in the wilderness and no option to play next season , then expelled later on when all the *rap comes out
happy days

How about a nice wee game off football as a play-off Dunfermline v Dunee winners go up, big pay day for both clubs at Hampden n bit of excitement back into the game.....no?

[HFC 0-7]

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Don´t see why SPL can´t simply expunge enough points retrospectively (under rule H5) to make Oldhun the club finishing last. Ross County then get their share and Dunfermline stay up as they were not in last place. There´s then no decision for the SPL to make on a Newco. It all becomes the SFL´s problem :-)

They cant expunge the points retrospectively because of the split. The split means that even if the 6th placed team finished with lower points than any of the bottom 6 teams they cannot be placed below them. In addition the 5 games post split would all have been wrong as the bottom 6 should have been playing rangers.

[ian cruise]

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How about a nice wee game off football as a play-off Dunfermline v Dunee winners go up, big pay day for both clubs at Hampden n bit of excitement back into the game.....no?

i was going to post the same thing. What a start to the season

[Andy74]

The rules I've seen posted here today don't match the ones posted a few weeks ago.

It was much clearer in the ones I'd seen before that the next team in the SFL would get an invite of a club went bust after the end of the season.

No idea where they came from though.

[IWasThere2016]

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Neither Dunfermline Athletic or their fans want to be in SPL next season.

With eight derby matches to look forward to, they have already sold more season tickets than last term.

There would be NO sporting integrity in reinstating the Pars. They were bottom - they got relegated.

It has to be Dundee IMHO.

[JeMeSouviens]

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The rules I've seen posted here today don't match the ones posted a few weeks ago.

It was much clearer in the ones I'd seen before that the next team in the SFL would get an invite of a club went bust after the end of the season.

No idea where they came from though.

The SPL changed its articles of association recently, part of which was to allow all clubs to get a vote on the transfer of share. Didn't see the full set of changes made public anywhere.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I agree - what I was suggesting was that SPL expunge the Old Huns points from last season so that they are recorded as having come last. That lets Dunfermline stay up, Ross County get promoted and they can tell Sevco that their application to take over the Old Huns place in the SPL is invalid.

On what grounds would you do that, though? They fulfilled all their fixtures, and haven't been found guilty in the double-contracts thing yet.

[matty_f]

Falkirk look like objecting to any moves fpr the Huns dropping to the first division. http://www.falkirkfc.co.uk/index.php...medium=twitter

[HH81]

There is a rumour down here rangers have agreed a fall back deal with a non league club in England. One lower than conf North.

Doubt its true but was told the club had agreed to been moved to Scotland and a route into the English leagues. I'm told bury rumour was a smoke screen for this.

[Stevie Reid]

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Worrying bit of back-pedalling here:

Keith Downie‏@STVkeithAberdeen Chariman Stewart Milne says that contracry to reports, Aberdeen have still to make a decision on Rangers newco in SPL.

That was actually built in to the story that BBC released this morning: -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18539483

An Aberdeen spokesman told BBC Scotland: "The consequences of not voting no would be overwhelming from a supporters' perspective.
"There is now an avalanche in terms of fans' feeling here."
However, the Pittodrie club has not made an official announcement and chairman Stewart Milne said they had yet to reach a final decision.
"This is a critical decision which will have major implications for all clubs and the future of Scottish football," said Milne. "The views of our fans and the issue of sporting integrity will clearly be a major influencing factor in our decision-making."

[VickMackie]

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Falkirk look like objecting to any moves fpr the Huns dropping to the first division. http://www.falkirkfc.co.uk/index.php...medium=twitter

Brilliant statement. Especially the bit about 100p in the pound.

[VickMackie]

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That was actually built in to the story that BBC released this morning: -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18539483

An Aberdeen spokesman told BBC Scotland: "The consequences of not voting no would be overwhelming from a supporters' perspective.
"There is now an avalanche in terms of fans' feeling here."
However, the Pittodrie club has not made an official announcement and chairman Stewart Milne said they had yet to reach a final decision.
"This is a critical decision which will have major implications for all clubs and the future of Scottish football," said Milne. "The views of our fans and the issue of sporting integrity will clearly be a major influencing factor in our decision-making."

Companies usually make decisions on products on MoSCoW ratings. Must have, should have, would have, could have.

Sporting integrity = must have
Supportive fan base = must have
Financial income = must have

These are the 3 main ones moving forward. 2 of the three would be required as a minimum, usually all 3. It's impossible to get with a newco.

[Sylar]

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There would be NO sporting integrity in reinstating the Pars. They were bottom - they got relegated.

It has to be Dundee IMHO.

Dundee finished closer to the bottom of division one than they did to the top of the league (in terms of points differential) and did not meet the necessary requirements to get to the SPL.

Dunfermline finished bottom of the league by 8 points and were deservingly relegated from the SPL, but then again, they were competing in a league against a team who cheated and have been punished accordingly. The cards were stacked against the Pars (and every other club in the SPL).

In terms of footballing performance, none of them "deserve" to be in the SPL.

If Dundee (or Livingston, or Airdrie Utd...) ever make it back to the SPL on merit, having properly rebuilt and worked their way back whilst learning the lessons of their financial misdemeanors of the past, I'll tip my hat to them. However, Dundee cheated many people out of significant amounts of money - not once, but twice - and there are a large number of people up here on Tayside (as well you know) who have been royally screwed over by the previous incumbents at Dens Park. To think that this club will now benefit and be defaulted into the most lucrative league in Scotland because of the financial mismanagement of others is simply galling.

The ONLY way this would be settled fairly is either having an 11 team SPL next year or forcing a playoff between the 2 clubs. IMHO.

[Saorsa]

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Falkirk look like objecting to any moves fpr the Huns dropping to the first division. http://www.falkirkfc.co.uk/index.php...medium=twitter

[ancienthibby]

Beeb Radio reporting that 11 SPL clubs planning a meeting prior to the scheduled 4th July meeting.

Will the second one then be made redundant??

Here's more:

Rangers newco vote implications to be discussed by SPL clubs


Scottish Premier League clubs will meet at Hampden on Thursday to discuss the implications of their Rangers 'newco' vote on 4 July.
All clubs, except Rangers, are expected to gather for a pre-vote debate.
Dundee United and Hearts have already publicly stated they will vote against allowing a new Rangers into the SPL.
BBC Scotland has learned that Aberdeen will also say no to Charles Green's application for his relaunched Rangers to replace the old club.
And Hibernian chairman Rod Petrie previously made it clear that commercial concerns were of secondary importance in relation to the integrity of the league.
Kilmarnock are the latest club to say they will canvas supporter opinion following similar moves by Inverness, Motherwell and St Mirren.
It is understood the SPL board will make recommendations on various outcomes and scenarios at Thursday's meeting.
Green's consortium, which bought Rangers' assets last week,needs the support of seven rival clubs when the SPL vote on the issue.
Should Green's group not get the required 8-4 vote in their favour for top flight football, they would have to apply to fill the vacancy that would be created by a team being promoted from the Scottish Football League.
Rangers Football Club plc entered administration in February over unpaid tax and Revenue and Customs' vote against a company voluntary arrangement proposal prompted the transfer of assets to Green's group and their attempts to replace the old Rangers in the SPL.