Hibs transfer rumours

[Devine]

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I know what you mean!

I've always maintained that the theory behind the board's strategy has been sound, and I think the big decisions they've made (stand/training centre) will reap rewards long term. Where I think they've been found wanting is in managing the change at the club with the numerous managers coming and going.

They've clearly been well intentioned with trying to get funds in to the various managers to bring players in but we've been on a steady downward trajectory for some time now. I think the board need to make it known that it's not enough for us just to survive, there has to be genuine ambition and if they want Fenlon to make us a top 4 side then they have to fund the spend on bringing top 4 level players in. They dBid it with Yogi (Stokes, Miller) and we finished 4th almost despite Yogi it seems.

If there's not enough money at the club just now to fund that level of spend then the board have a duty to all of us and Fenlon, to work night and day to find a way to source those funds either through manageable borrowing or going after 'investment' (ok, it's not investment because nobody's making money, but there are folk with capital that would put money into the club at a reasonable level).

IMHO, the wrong choices this summer will cripple the club for years. We were staring into the abyss of first division football this season, as we were for a good part of the previous season. We were a result or two away from being a non-SPL club. That would be almost fatal for a club of our size. The margins are too narrow to take chances with, Fenlon needs enough money to practically guarantee top 6 football (and I know the arguments about money not being able to guarantee anything, but teams that spend more consistently do better than those that don't).

I'm sorry getting horsed twice in a matter of 6 years in a semi final and final of the biggest cup competition in Scottish football by your greatest rivals does not equal a sound board strategy. We are a football club first and foremost not a business. Rod Petrie wants his legacy to be the groud and training centre but for me he will always be one of the main reasons we have been embarrassed by our closest rivals.

This didn't need to happen we had plenty of money come in to build the team yet we chose not to. I can take your point about the training centre but I also firmly believe the level of coaching and a huge bit of luck are more important than a top end facility. However, I will never understand the decision to build that stand explain to me why we did it except for cosmetic reasons? We will NEVER get 20k fans coming to the majority of our games in a good season we will get 15k max which the old stand catered for not to mention the atmosphere and character it gave the stadium. Let's bear in mind the stand brings in no extra income via conferencing facilities etc. Rod put his own legacy before the club, the team and the fans

[erin go bragh]

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Carroll has never played under Trapatoni?

My mistake played under Sir Alex
ggtth

[matty_f]

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I'm sorry getting horsed twice in a matter of 6 years in a semi final and final of the biggest cup competition in Scottish football by your greatest rivals does not equal a sound board strategy. We are a football club first and foremost not a business. Rod Petrie wants his legacy to be the groud and training centre but for me he will always be one of the main reasons we have been embarrassed by our closest rivals.

This didn't need to happen we had plenty of money come in to build the team yet we chose not to. I can take your point about the training centre but I also firmly believe the level of coaching and a huge bit of luck are more important than a top end facility. However, I will never understand the decision to build that stand explain to me why we did it except for cosmetic reasons? We will NEVER get 20k fans coming to the majority of our games in a good season we will get 15k max which the old stand catered for not to mention the atmosphere and character it gave the stadium. Let's bear in mind the stand brings in no extra income via conferencing facilities etc. Rod put his own legacy before the club, the team and the fans

The training ground was built on the back of a cup win, and the stand was built on the back of a 4th place finish and welcomed European football to Easter Road.

Good you've got a crystal ball and can state so categorically that we'll never get 20k fans. What having the stand now means is that when we do have a team fit enough to grace it then we'll not need to take money out the team to build it. You picked 2 games in 6 (yes, six) years against a team spending massively more than us, as the example of why the strategy wasn't sound (in theory) yet ignore any successes over that period. Way to go.

[AJWisme]

I'm not someone "in the know" nor do I know anyone "in the know"!

I felt that was important to point out

Jonathon Grounds (remember him?) has left Middlesbrough on a free. He has since tweeted that he's driven up to Edinburgh.

Probably nothing more than a holiday, just thought I might point it out in case anyone knew anything?

[Long Time Hibee]

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I know what you mean!

I've always maintained that the theory behind the board's strategy has been sound, and I think the big decisions they've made (stand/training centre) will reap rewards long term. Where I think they've been found wanting is in managing the change at the club with the numerous managers coming and going.

They've clearly been well intentioned with trying to get funds in to the various managers to bring players in but we've been on a steady downward trajectory for some time now. I think the board need to make it known that it's not enough for us just to survive, there has to be genuine ambition and if they want Fenlon to make us a top 4 side then they have to fund the spend on bringing top 4 level players in. They did it with Yogi (Stokes, Miller) and we finished 4th almost despite Yogi it seems.

If there's not enough money at the club just now to fund that level of spend then the board have a duty to all of us and Fenlon, to work night and day to find a way to source those funds either through manageable borrowing or going after 'investment' (ok, it's not investment because nobody's making money, but there are folk with capital that would put money into the club at a reasonable level).

IMHO, the wrong choices this summer will cripple the club for years. We were staring into the abyss of first division football this season, as we were for a good part of the previous season. We were a result or two away from being a non-SPL club. That would be almost fatal for a club of our size. The margins are too narrow to take chances with, Fenlon needs enough money to practically guarantee top 6 football (and I know the arguments about money not being able to guarantee anything, but teams that spend more consistently do better than those that don't).

Matty, send this to the Tache or Fife. Word for word this is spot-on. I've supported Hibs all my life and have never been so down after 'that' final.
I hoped I would see my team lift the Scottish Cup before I snuff it and against 'them' would have been 'the icing on the cake' but it didn't happen.
(Don't know if it ever will?) My stomach was churning prior to the Dunfermline game (fortunateley it was put to bed after 15 mins) and was the same last season against St Midden, so things have to change on the pitch 'big time' We don't deserve this season after season. Hibs should be a top 4 club!
Nothing less should be acceptable.
GGTHH

[Devine]

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The training ground was built on the back of a cup win, and the stand was built on the back of a 4th place finish and welcomed European football to Easter Road.

Good you've got a crystal ball and can state so categorically that we'll never get 20k fans. What having the stand now means is that when we do have a team fit enough to grace it then we'll not need to take money out the team to build it. You picked 2 games in 6 (yes, six) years against a team spending massively more than us, as the example of why the strategy wasn't sound (in theory) yet ignore any successes over that period. Way to go.

The training ground I can handle my point being the way Hibs and a lot of fans have portrayed it as a conveyor belt that will start churning out the stars of tomorrow year in year out. It doesnt work like that youth starlets generally come in cycles and that cycle is often down to a scout/coach with a good eye, good coaching/handling of players/personalities and a LOT of luck.

Your crystal ball comment has let you down here. I or anyone else doesnt need a crystal ball just like Rod and co didnt need a crystal ball to estimate short-mid term future attendances. As a matter of interest do you believe in the next 10 years over the course of a season we can fill ER > 60% of the time!? Lets just have a look at Hibernian attendances over the last 10 years, trends in Scottish Football attendances and trends in most countries attendances (outwith top 4-5 nations) for various reasons mainly economic to realise we had little to no chance of filling that stadium on a regular basis. The cost of building and implementing it cannot be justified Im sorry it cant not to mention the loss of atmosphere and character as I mentioned earlier. We had no indication that we needed a new stand yet we bashed on anyway.

ONE trophy and a couple of brief decent league performances and brief forays into Europe in a climate where we have consistently been in the top 2-3 clubs outwith the OF for attendances, recouped more than any other Scottish team in transfer fees and produced some of Scotlands best talent to me is NOT success. This board has FAILED year in year out to put a decent team on the park with more resources than most other teams in the SPL. I really thought that getting absolutely humiliated by our greatest rivals by an average-decent Hearts side (you only need to look at the league table never mind the players) would have jolted the vast majority of Hibs fans out of this mindset that we have been successful, over the last 6-7 years our FOOTBALL TEAM has been mostly DREADFUL. We need to stop accepting & excusing defeat sadly I cant see it happening anytime soon

[matty_f]

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The training ground I can handle my point being the way Hibs and a lot of fans have portrayed it as a conveyor belt that will start churning out the stars of tomorrow year in year out. It doesnt work like that youth starlets generally come in cycles and that cycle is often down to a scout/coach with a good eye, good coaching/handling of players/personalities and a LOT of luck.

Your crystal ball comment has let you down here. I or anyone else doesnt need a crystal ball just like Rod and co didnt need a crystal ball to estimate short-mid term future attendances. As a matter of interest do you believe in the next 10 years over the course of a season we can fill ER > 60% of the time!? Lets just have a look at Hibernian attendances over the last 10 years, trends in Scottish Football attendances and trends in most countries attendances (outwith top 4-5 nations) for various reasons mainly economic to realise we had little to no chance of filling that stadium on a regular basis. The cost of building and implementing it cannot be justified Im sorry it cant not to mention the loss of atmosphere and character as I mentioned earlier. We had no indication that we needed a new stand yet we bashed on anyway.

ONE trophy and a couple of brief decent league performances and brief forays into Europe in a climate where we have consistently been in the top 2-3 clubs outwith the OF for attendances, recouped more than any other Scottish team in transfer fees and produced some of Scotlands best talent to me is NOT success. This board has FAILED year in year out to put a decent team on the park with more resources than most other teams in the SPL. I really thought that getting absolutely humiliated by our greatest rivals by an average-decent Hearts side (you only need to look at the league table never mind the players) would have jolted the vast majority of Hibs fans out of this mindset that we have been successful, over the last 6-7 years our FOOTBALL TEAM has been mostly DREADFUL. We need to stop accepting & excusing defeat sadly I cant see it happening anytime soon

Again, you're looking short-mid term, that stand is there long term. There will (IMHO) be periods over that time where we have a team on the pitch that brings in a crowd big enough to justify it. The economic factors won't always be prevalent and when the recession and financial crisis eventually subside then people will come back to football if the team is good enough for it.

Ask Celtc fans how many of them expected regular 50k+ attendances at the time Fergus McCann took them over...

I don't think anyone is excusing or accepting defeat - if you read my post you'll see that I am of the opinion that the board haven't succeeded in managing to keep a good team on the pitch while we've gone through a number of managers.

However, to put your lack of success comments into perspective (and I'll apologise if this does come across as excusing defeat) the Hearts team that beat us in the cup included at least three players that Hibs and Hearts both attempted to sign, where the players took significantly more money to go to Hearts. The team that beat us in the semi-final (bearing in mind we had key players out that game as well) was assembled at a cost that was to burden the Yams with a huge debt and cost massively more than our team. Until the season before last, we hadn't been out of the top 6 for some years, had won a cup and got to a number of semi-finals. Our achievements were probably pretty closely aligned to our relative spend and so I think there is room to acknowledge that there are successes in that time.

[AlbertK86]

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The training ground was built on the back of a cup win, and the stand was built on the back of a 4th place finish and welcomed European football to Easter Road.

Good you've got a crystal ball and can state so categorically that we'll never get 20k fans. What having the stand now means is that when we do have a team fit enough to grace it then we'll not need to take money out the team to build it. You picked 2 games in 6 (yes, six) years against a team spending massively more than us, as the example of why the strategy wasn't sound (in theory) yet ignore any successes over that period. Way to go.

Training ground was started before the cup win !

It was started around the time O'Connor was sold as he left his cut of the transfer to be put towards it

[bingo70]

I'm sure I read on here Jonathon grounds has put on Twitter he's on his way up to Edinburgh, where did that post go?

Wasn't great in his first spell but seems a feasable signing if he's been released and improved with a bit experience over the last couple of years.

Probably just on a stag doo though

[LancsHibs]

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I'm sure I read on here Jonathon grounds has put on Twitter he's on his way up to Edinburgh, where did that post go?

Wasn't great in his first spell but seems a feasable signing if he's been released and improved with a bit experience over the last couple of years.

Probably just on a stag doo though

Didn't impress in his loan spell, just checked on wiki he was on loan at Yeovil last season and was released by Middlesborough at th end of season so is a free agent!

[3pm]

Grounds is surely on his way to Livingston. Just give it up if he signs...

[cockneymike]

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Your crystal ball comment has let you down here. I or anyone else doesnt need a crystal ball just like Rod and co didnt need a crystal ball to estimate short-mid term future attendances. As a matter of interest do you believe in the next 10 years over the course of a season we can fill ER > 60% of the time!? Lets just have a look at Hibernian attendances over the last 10 years, trends in Scottish Football attendances and trends in most countries attendances (outwith top 4-5 nations) for various reasons mainly economic to realise we had little to no chance of filling that stadium on a regular basis. The cost of building and implementing it cannot be justified Im sorry it cant not to mention the loss of atmosphere and character as I mentioned earlier. We had no indication that we needed a new stand yet we bashed on anyway.

I think your basing your sums on the wrong numbers. The new East wasn't built on the premise of getting 20,000 every week or even 60% of the time. The premise was that for Category A games ER could only hold 12,100 Hibbies +4000 OF/Yams. This meant that we were regularly getting close to selling out, or if you take away the seats they couldn't/ wouldn't sell due to lack of view or being on their own and folk wanted to sit with their mates they were selling out.

Therefore the point about the stand is - do we get 18k+ on cat A games, we haven't recently but we might, I would argue would, if the team were any better.

The problem with the new stand is not the money that was spent on it, its been the crap managers wasting the 4th/5th biggest budget in the league over the last few years, has meant that no-one has wanted to go sit in it.

The club have run up big deficits trying to maintain the budget but the problem has been that they've kept buying crap players.

Therefore I don't think the strategy has been wrong, but its application has been awful.

I do agree with Matty though, that this year, the board need to make some serious investment in players because we need to break out of this cycle of awfulness, and we need to do it this year.

[bingo70]

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Didn't impress in his loan spell, just checked on wiki he was on loan at Yeovil last season and was released by Middlesborough at th end of season so is a free agent!

When I was on Twitter trying to find him I saw Yeovil fans saying they were desperate for him to stay so sounds like he did a good job there.

I always thought it was his attitude rather than ability that let him down, got the impression he tried to play within himself, almost like he thought was too good for the SPL so got caught out from time to time.

A player with a questionable attitude isn't what we need right now but if he's learned from his release from Boro then maybe he's worth another punt.

I'd rather we found new players though.

(Also worth remembering he was played left back for us but his best position was apparently centre back)

[RoxburghHibs]

This is not a rumour but a thought.

Why don't we go for Beattie? He showed in the few months at the Yams that, if fully fit, he would score goals in the SPL and be an asset.

He a free agent and from what I recall nearly signed for StMirren before the cheats signed him.

Thoughts?

[Stevie Reid]

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The fact he was given a 5 year contract at the beginning of the season does not mean he wasn't badly treated in the latter part of the season. From memory he didn't play after the St J game at home, a game in which he scored a superb goal. Remember, our back 4 that day was Hart, Stephens, Hanlon & Booth!! Directly in front of Booth was Ivan who gave him no cover whatsoever. I think he was only on the bench once more albeit he was injured part of the time. Re the part in bold above those are by far the weakest parts of Kujabi's game, I'd back Booth over him in those areas every time. Finally, re Gareth Bale, think back a couple of years. A young man with developing talent bought at a huge price & seen as a failure, booed by the Spurs fans. Played wide left one day through necessity & suddenly he's a hero & Harry's a genius. Of course it could have been worse, I could have compared Booth to Roberto Carlos, now no one would do that surely!!

He wasn't badly treated though. He was given a long contract, and then dropped for playing badly in a back four that was in relegation form - how is that treated badly? He would have suffered further if he wasn't dropped - and, at the end of the day, if he is too weak mentally to handle being dropped after playing badly, then he is no use to us, quite frankly. Incidentally, I didn't ever claim that Kujabi was the long term answer, but the back four was undoubtedly much more solid and well balanced with him in it rather than Booth.

As for the Gareth Bale thing, come on. Bale was always going to make it, if he had left Spurs he would have been a star elsewhere - if CB doesn't make it at Hibs, he is unlikely to have a top level career.

[JimBHibees]

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I'm sorry getting horsed twice in a matter of 6 years in a semi final and final of the biggest cup competition in Scottish football by your greatest rivals does not equal a sound board strategy. We are a football club first and foremost not a business. Rod Petrie wants his legacy to be the groud and training centre but for me he will always be one of the main reasons we have been embarrassed by our closest rivals.
This didn't need to happen we had plenty of money come in to build the team yet we chose not to. I can take your point about the training centre but I also firmly believe the level of coaching and a huge bit of luck are more important than a top end facility. However, I will never understand the decision to build that stand explain to me why we did it except for cosmetic reasons? We will NEVER get 20k fans coming to the majority of our games in a good season we will get 15k max which the old stand catered for not to mention the atmosphere and character it gave the stadium. Let's bear in mind the stand brings in no extra income via conferencing facilities etc. Rod put his own legacy before the club, the team and the fans

The main reason is that Hearts are paying players 3 or 4 times what they can get at ER. Petrie IMO was spot on in investing in the infrastructure of the club when we were in a position to do so. We now need a manager that can get the best out of that infrastructure. The last few have failed and yes, he and the Board have to accept criticism for that however to me it would have been wholly negligent of the Board to not invest in the club at the time and to allow the players to train on whatever public park was available and the fans to be subjected to appalling facilities.

[IWasThere2016]

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If Swanson was as good as some people think he'd still be at United.

His wage will have increased 1-5 - 2.5 times .. His move is not a backward step.

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I know what you mean!

I've always maintained that the theory behind the board's strategy has been sound, and I think the big decisions they've made (stand/training centre) will reap rewards long term. Where I think they've been found wanting is in managing the change at the club with the numerous managers coming and going.

They've clearly been well intentioned with trying to get funds in to the various managers to bring players in but we've been on a steady downward trajectory for some time now. I think the board need to make it known that it's not enough for us just to survive, there has to be genuine ambition and if they want Fenlon to make us a top 4 side then they have to fund the spend on bringing top 4 level players in. They did it with Yogi (Stokes, Miller) and we finished 4th almost despite Yogi it seems.

If there's not enough money at the club just now to fund that level of spend then the board have a duty to all of us and Fenlon, to work night and day to find a way to source those funds either through manageable borrowing or going after 'investment' (ok, it's not investment because nobody's making money, but there are folk with capital that would put money into the club at a reasonable level).

IMHO, the wrong choices this summer will cripple the club for years. We were staring into the abyss of first division football this season, as we were for a good part of the previous season. We were a result or two away from being a non-SPL club. That would be almost fatal for a club of our size. The margins are too narrow to take chances with, Fenlon needs enough money to practically guarantee top 6 football (and I know the arguments about money not being able to guarantee anything, but teams that spend more consistently do better than those that don't).

What's done is done. We need to look forward and you have called it right .. another 'transition' will be fatal. We need real tangible progress on the park, via results and enterntainment, now!

[Aldo]

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His wage will have increased 1-5 - 2.5 times .. His move is not a backward step.

What's done is done. We need to look forward and you have called it right .. another 'transition' will be fatal. We need real tangible progress on the park, via results and enterntainment, now!

Agree re Swanson. As for the club as a whole well Petrie gets slated left right and Chelsea on here for being a tight arse, but he's backed every manager---- rightly or wrongly.

We all make mistakes. Tell you all wot... If your no happy with RP then pop into the PBS and ask the mad one run the club.

Let's wait and see who we bring in and don't judge them till they play.

[brog]

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He wasn't badly treated though. He was given a long contract, and then dropped for playing badly in a back four that was in relegation form - how is that treated badly? He would have suffered further if he wasn't dropped - and, at the end of the day, if he is too weak mentally to handle being dropped after playing badly, then he is no use to us, quite frankly. Incidentally, I didn't ever claim that Kujabi was the long term answer, but the back four was undoubtedly much more solid and well balanced with him in it rather than Booth.

As for the Gareth Bale thing, come on. Bale was always going to make it, if he had left Spurs he would have been a star elsewhere - if CB doesn't make it at Hibs, he is unlikely to have a top level career.

Well we all have our opinions & mine is that Booth is a far better player than Kujabi, & I posted that well before the final. I also believe that if Hibs cut CB loose he'll very quickly be approached by teams currently better placed than we are, Dun Utd being the front runners. I had no quarrel with CB being dropped, I did think it unfair he was not even considered thereafter & was singled out for comments by PF.
As for Bale, I live in London & saw him & Spurs regularly in his first couple of years there. Incredibly Spurs didn't win any of the 20+ first games that Bale played for them. He was dropped for a considerable period, was really unpopular with the fans & only returned through necessity rather than choice. Its easy in hindsight to say he would always have made it, not many Spurs fans thought that 2-3 years ago, they thought he was a huge waste of £10mm.

[AlbertK86]

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Agree re Swanson. As for the club as a whole well Petrie gets slated left right and Chelsea on here for being a tight arse, but he's backed every manager---- rightly or wrongly.

We all make mistakes. Tell you all wot... If your no happy with RP then pop into the PBS and ask the mad one run the club.

Let's wait and see who we bring in and don't judge them till they play.

Yep we all make mistakes ... But how many is ROD allowed ?

[Stevie Reid]

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Well we all have our opinions & mine is that Booth is a far better player than Kujabi, & I posted that well before the final. I also believe that if Hibs cut CB loose he'll very quickly be approached by teams currently better placed than we are, Dun Utd being the front runners. I had no quarrel with CB being dropped, I did think it unfair he was not even considered thereafter & was singled out for comments by PF.
As for Bale, I live in London & saw him & Spurs regularly in his first couple of years there. Incredibly Spurs didn't win any of the 20+ first games that Bale played for them. He was dropped for a considerable period, was really unpopular with the fans & only returned through necessity rather than choice. Its easy in hindsight to say he would always have made it, not many Spurs fans thought that 2-3 years ago, they thought he was a huge waste of £10mm.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to disagree with it. I do not believe that CB has been treated unfairly, but I'll say again, if he cannot handle being dropped and taking a bit of flack (like Bale has had to do), then he is no use to Hibs.

You can compare their situations as much as you like, the fact is that Bale is of such a far superior level to Booth that he would always have made it playing at a high level - just to put things into perspective, Bale was a £5M player aged 17, and had scored a hat trick in the San Siro by the time he was Callum's age.

I was always aware (as were many) of the fact that Bale had to wait a ridiculously long time to be part of an EPL win, but FWIW I did a bit of reading up and he actually started really well at Spurs, signing a new contract 15 months after he had initially signed for them. He certainly struggled for a bit after that, but then his natural ability shone through and he has never looked back. Even if Spurs had moved him on, other EPL teams would have picked him up. Stating that Dundee Utd might take a chance on CB if he weren't to make it at Hibs is hardly the same thing.

You can say there are some parallels there if you like (preferred position, young player struggles in team playing badly), but the idea that Callum Booth could suddenly become the Scottish equivalent of Gareth Bale is preposterous IMO. Again, I very much hope that Callum goes onto have a good career with us, and if he gets his place back in the Hibs team and starts terrorising SPL defences on a regular basis, I'll gladly eat my words - but even the loosest of comparisons between a raw Hibs youngster who has barely made a positive impact and a superb player like Bale is wrong IMO.

[Speedway]

Once all Pat's targets are in place, we'll line up like this next term:

Carroll

Clancy
McHype
Michalik
Grounds

Cairney
McGuinness
Adams
Claros

Griffiths
Sheridan

[Aldo]

?????
Speeders you taking the P??

Or being sarcastic??

[Hibby 2005]

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?????
Speeders you taking the P??

Or being sarcastic??

Sarcastic. Apparently it's the lowest form of wit.

[At The Edge]

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Once all Pat's targets are in place, we'll line up like this next term:

Carroll

Clancy
McHype
Michalik
Grounds

Cairney
McGuinness
Adams
Claros

Griffiths
Sheridan

Have these two both retired from politics certainly tick all the boxes on the Irish connection

[Kato]

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Have these two both retired from politics certainly tick all the boxes on the Irish connection

I thought it was Paddy and Grizzly he was referring to. Grizzly Adams in the Matty Jack role obviously.

[Colr]

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I thought it was Paddy and Grizzly he was referring to. Grizzly Adams in the Matty Jack role obviously.

Surely it's Gomez. Scare the keech out of the opposition.

[Kato]

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Surely it's Gomez. Scare the keech out of the opposition.

Not sure if that's the kind of character required at ER, questionable lifestyle.

[nonshinyfinish]

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Once all Pat's targets are in place, we'll line up like this next term:

Carroll

Clancy
McHype
Michalik
Grounds

Cairney
McGuinness
Adams
Claros

Griffiths
Sheridan

Marvellous.

[Minder]

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Have these two both retired from politics certainly tick all the boxes on the Irish connection

"They have not went away you know" !


Provisionally it ain't a bad line up, maybe we would see the real hibs.