Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[matty_f]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It is.

It was quoted on Sky Sports News. Rangers are Donald Ducked.

[down-the-slope]

It looks like NewCo is the only game in town......

Forget whether they are in SPL or not (argumanet for latter) this news means that for 3 years there is the possiblility of a jackpot of CL football for anothe club....that makes for great possibilities....

[PaulSmith]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It looks like NewCo is the only game in town......

Forget whether they are in SPL or not (argumanet for latter) this news means that for 3 years there is the possiblility of a jackpot of CL football for anothe club....that makes for great possibilities....

2nd place won't get a Scottish team into champs league qualifiers after this season.
Even at that there is zero chance of there ever being a Scottish club in the league stages for the next what 5 years although I'd say never very doubtful we'll ever see it again

[jacomo]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It was quoted on Sky Sports News. Rangers are Donald Ducked.

Yup.

[Jim44]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Aye...here you go... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLmiOEk59n8

Very drole, JTFC, :-). Actually if you look at one of the websites of quotations a lot of the JFK quotes are relevant to the Rangers plight.

[hibs0666]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Is this for real?

Was the lawyer a bit pished when he drafted it?

[Saorsa]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Brian - bite the bullet and just dig that wee bit deeper

---

For the sake of some extra cash, you can do this.

Our very existence is at stake here. surely you can dig deeper and end this hell.

We do not want to hear the rattle of padlocks on the gates of Ibrox.

Please Brian. I am in tears here. I am begging you. Please.



this thread on swallow swallow had me in tears.......


of laughter

[Spike Mandela]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Was the lawyer a bit pished when he drafted it?

It reads like the Daily Record drafted it.

[CyberSauzee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Is it because he is Green?

Haven't you heard? Everything's gone green. It's the new order of things.

[Geo_1875]

Their fans have a new party song.

The Pointer Sisters version of I'm So Incited.

[grunt]

I liked this blog post from someone called Henry Clarson. It summarises an important point for me.

http://henryclarson.wordpress.com/20...egrity-stupid/

The key to winning a battle is very often the ability to choose the weapons, the battleground and the timing. Winning a debate is much easier if you can choose the topic to be argued. Passing an exam is much easier if the candidate can choose the questions.
The debate about the fate of Rangers is currently being dictated to a large extent by bean-counters and their media apologists. They have chosen the weapons, selected the battleground, dictated the topic and are choosing the questions while the vast majority of Scottish football supporters want to conduct this debate on different grounds, with different priorities, addressing different questions and using different weapons. This must not be allowed to continue.

There is one issue which should be the only show in town. It is integrity.

There can be no escape from this. Without integrity, the game’s a bogey. Every commentator who so much as hesitates to evaluate every other aspect of the case from that viewpoint should be called to account immediately. Such people have abrogated their right to contribute to the discussion of what is best for the sport.

There is no business argument which takes precedence over sporting integrity. The entire point of the game is that players can get a fair test of their ability against opponents on a level playing field. If that fairness is corrupted, the game becomes pointless, irrelevant, redundant and a waste of everybody’s time, effort and money. The sooner a corrupt business dies, the better for every decent person. If football allows itself to be blackmailed by cheats because it isn’t prepared to defend its integrity then it fully deserves to perish.

In short, the essence of the football business is integrity. Everything else is secondary at best and irrelevant at the very least. The further the discussion moves away from the focal point of integrity, the more it threatens the well-being of the game. No journalist or broadcaster or football director or SPL functionary or SFA official should ever even contemplate denying that fair play is the be-all and end-all of professional sport.

Fairness is not about guaranteeing that one particular club will prosper in a competition just because it has more followers than other clubs. It is not about ensuring that, come what may, two clubs will always play in the top half of the top division because that’s what Rupert Murdoch’s shilling demands. Putting that another way, fairness does not permit decent professionals who have worked hard, tried their hardest and played the game to the best of their ability to accept that they are to be swindled out of their win bonuses and honours because they are plying their trade with a club which is held to be a less attractive commercial proposition than its rival. Unless there is fair play at every level of the competition, the entire exercise a complete waste of time and, worse still, a cynical fraud.

Let there be no respect for any argument which is ambivalent about the pre-eminence of the principle of integrity in professional football. To compromise that principle is the ultimate sell-out. There are few surer ways to bring about the ultimate destruction of the game than to let the customers realise that they are being completely conned and sold short. We must refuse to accept any terms of reference which relegate integrity to the sidelines or dismiss it as an impractical ideal which has no place in commercial activity.

Integrity belongs at very the core of football’s commercial activity and it has never been more important to defend it than at the present time when the Scottish game is facing its biggest test.

[Hibrandenburg]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I liked this blog post from someone called Henry Clarson. It summarises an important point for me.

http://henryclarson.wordpress.com/20...egrity-stupid/

The key to winning a battle is very often the ability to choose the weapons, the battleground and the timing. Winning a debate is much easier if you can choose the topic to be argued. Passing an exam is much easier if the candidate can choose the questions.
The debate about the fate of Rangers is currently being dictated to a large extent by bean-counters and their media apologists. They have chosen the weapons, selected the battleground, dictated the topic and are choosing the questions while the vast majority of Scottish football supporters want to conduct this debate on different grounds, with different priorities, addressing different questions and using different weapons. This must not be allowed to continue.

There is one issue which should be the only show in town. It is integrity.

There can be no escape from this. Without integrity, the game’s a bogey. Every commentator who so much as hesitates to evaluate every other aspect of the case from that viewpoint should be called to account immediately. Such people have abrogated their right to contribute to the discussion of what is best for the sport.

There is no business argument which takes precedence over sporting integrity. The entire point of the game is that players can get a fair test of their ability against opponents on a level playing field. If that fairness is corrupted, the game becomes pointless, irrelevant, redundant and a waste of everybody’s time, effort and money. The sooner a corrupt business dies, the better for every decent person. If football allows itself to be blackmailed by cheats because it isn’t prepared to defend its integrity then it fully deserves to perish.

In short, the essence of the football business is integrity. Everything else is secondary at best and irrelevant at the very least. The further the discussion moves away from the focal point of integrity, the more it threatens the well-being of the game. No journalist or broadcaster or football director or SPL functionary or SFA official should ever even contemplate denying that fair play is the be-all and end-all of professional sport.

Fairness is not about guaranteeing that one particular club will prosper in a competition just because it has more followers than other clubs. It is not about ensuring that, come what may, two clubs will always play in the top half of the top division because that’s what Rupert Murdoch’s shilling demands. Putting that another way, fairness does not permit decent professionals who have worked hard, tried their hardest and played the game to the best of their ability to accept that they are to be swindled out of their win bonuses and honours because they are plying their trade with a club which is held to be a less attractive commercial proposition than its rival. Unless there is fair play at every level of the competition, the entire exercise a complete waste of time and, worse still, a cynical fraud.

Let there be no respect for any argument which is ambivalent about the pre-eminence of the principle of integrity in professional football. To compromise that principle is the ultimate sell-out. There are few surer ways to bring about the ultimate destruction of the game than to let the customers realise that they are being completely conned and sold short. We must refuse to accept any terms of reference which relegate integrity to the sidelines or dismiss it as an impractical ideal which has no place in commercial activity.

Integrity belongs at very the core of football’s commercial activity and it has never been more important to defend it than at the present time when the Scottish game is facing its biggest test.

Excellent summary of my feelings on this and why I'd never be back if der Hun gets away with cheating. (Not that I can feel so eloquently)

[blackpoolhibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Excellent summary of my feelings on this and why I'd never be back if der Hun gets away with cheating. (Not that I can feel so eloquently)

Yes an excellant piece, and says everything that should be said. Sporting integrity should be the one main constant, no matter what.

If the rules dont apply to some because of how many fans they have and how much richer they are, then the games finished as a sport.

I dont want to stop watching Hibs, but i certainly would not go as much should Rangers escape a full punishment, the derby games and probably cup matches.

And going less gets easier and easier to do, the authorities need to realise this. Saving Rangers could kill many clubs, its up to them now, let the dog wag the tail, not the other way round please.

[s.a.m]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I liked this blog post from someone called Henry Clarson. It summarises an important point for me.

http://henryclarson.wordpress.com/20...egrity-stupid/

The key to winning a battle is very often the ability to choose the weapons, the battleground and the timing. Winning a debate is much easier if you can choose the topic to be argued. Passing an exam is much easier if the candidate can choose the questions.
The debate about the fate of Rangers is currently being dictated to a large extent by bean-counters and their media apologists. They have chosen the weapons, selected the battleground, dictated the topic and are choosing the questions while the vast majority of Scottish football supporters want to conduct this debate on different grounds, with different priorities, addressing different questions and using different weapons. This must not be allowed to continue.

There is one issue which should be the only show in town. It is integrity.

There can be no escape from this. Without integrity, the game’s a bogey. Every commentator who so much as hesitates to evaluate every other aspect of the case from that viewpoint should be called to account immediately. Such people have abrogated their right to contribute to the discussion of what is best for the sport.

There is no business argument which takes precedence over sporting integrity. The entire point of the game is that players can get a fair test of their ability against opponents on a level playing field. If that fairness is corrupted, the game becomes pointless, irrelevant, redundant and a waste of everybody’s time, effort and money. The sooner a corrupt business dies, the better for every decent person. If football allows itself to be blackmailed by cheats because it isn’t prepared to defend its integrity then it fully deserves to perish.

In short, the essence of the football business is integrity. Everything else is secondary at best and irrelevant at the very least. The further the discussion moves away from the focal point of integrity, the more it threatens the well-being of the game. No journalist or broadcaster or football director or SPL functionary or SFA official should ever even contemplate denying that fair play is the be-all and end-all of professional sport.

Fairness is not about guaranteeing that one particular club will prosper in a competition just because it has more followers than other clubs. It is not about ensuring that, come what may, two clubs will always play in the top half of the top division because that’s what Rupert Murdoch’s shilling demands. Putting that another way, fairness does not permit decent professionals who have worked hard, tried their hardest and played the game to the best of their ability to accept that they are to be swindled out of their win bonuses and honours because they are plying their trade with a club which is held to be a less attractive commercial proposition than its rival. Unless there is fair play at every level of the competition, the entire exercise a complete waste of time and, worse still, a cynical fraud.

Let there be no respect for any argument which is ambivalent about the pre-eminence of the principle of integrity in professional football. To compromise that principle is the ultimate sell-out. There are few surer ways to bring about the ultimate destruction of the game than to let the customers realise that they are being completely conned and sold short. We must refuse to accept any terms of reference which relegate integrity to the sidelines or dismiss it as an impractical ideal which has no place in commercial activity.

Integrity belongs at very the core of football’s commercial activity and it has never been more important to defend it than at the present time when the Scottish game is facing its biggest test.

That sums up the issue very eloquently.

[Saorsa]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Excellent summary of my feelings on this and why I'd never be back if der Hun gets away with cheating. (Not that I can feel so eloquently)

Bang on the money for me too

[essexhibee]

Let the bassas die. That is all.

[Haymaker]

Starting to seriously think Monday is L-day.

[magpie1892]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yes an excellant piece, and says everything that should be said. Sporting integrity should be the one main constant, no matter what.

If the rules dont apply to some because of how many fans they have and how much richer they are, then the games finished as a sport.

I dont want to stop watching Hibs, but i certainly would not go as much should Rangers escape a full punishment, the derby games and probably cup matches.

And going less gets easier and easier to do, the authorities need to realise this. Saving Rangers could kill many clubs, its up to them now, let the dog wag the tail, not the other way round please.

I agree, it's pretty good.

Further, I think it's quite timely in that this point of view - which has been prevalent with almost everyone bar the hun since this debacle started - is finally, finally beginning to get a bit more traction in the MSM.

The mood has changed/is changing and we're seeing open discussion now (even on FF) that rangers might die completely, and less of the fanciful stuff about a newco arriving by start 2012-13 that carries on regardless.

I'd actually be slightly miffed if Hearts ceased to exist. I obviously don't like them as an entity, but they are not even 10% as offensive as rangers.

There are convincing arguments to be made that should rangers cease to exist it will not only 'clear the air' around Scottish football, but actually be beneficial to Scottish society.

I don't agree that expulsion from the SFA was considered 'too severe' in rangers' case. I think it should have been the automatic choice.

[Saorsa]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I agree, it's pretty good.

Further, I think it's quite timely in that this point of view - which has been prevalent with almost everyone bar the hun since this debacle started - is finally, finally beginning to get a bit more traction in the MSM.

The mood has changed/is changing and we're seeing open discussion now (even on FF) that rangers might die completely, and less of the fanciful stuff about a newco arriving by start 2012-13 that carries on regardless.

I'd actually be slightly miffed if Hearts ceased to exist. I obviously don't like them as an entity, but they are not even 10% as offensive as rangers.

There are convincing arguments to be made that should rangers cease to exist it will not only 'clear the air' around Scottish football, but actually be beneficial to Scottish society.

I don't agree that expulsion from the SFA was considered 'too severe' in rangers' case. I think it should have been the automatic choice.

That's a matter of opinion.

[magpie1892]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

That's a matter of opinion.

I don't claim to speak for anyone other than myself..!

[joe breezy]

From a Rangers Forum - do the bouncy it's on tapatalk so giving me my fix of watching them squirm whilst I can't get on Rangers media

"I've just watched the full 40 minute conference, with a large glass of wine. I am absolutely gutted these guys never got the club this week.

I wish someone had asked during that conference if they felt that ***** was involved with Dumb & Dumber, as I just cannot undersand them not getting it after meeting the Quantum terms!

This would have been Rangers men... with money... Getting us out of this mess.

The bottom line now basically means that we need an Abramovich and nothing else will save us.

Sorry Bears... This is a dark, dark time not only for Rangers, but also for all of Scotland and Scottish Football!"

Good time for Scotland for me :)

[StevieC]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I don't claim to speak for anyone other than myself..!

Just as well, because I had them closer to 20%.

[BarneyK]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I liked this blog post from someone called Henry Clarson. It summarises an important point for me.

http://henryclarson.wordpress.com/20...egrity-stupid/

The key to winning a battle is very often the ability to choose the weapons, the battleground and the timing. Winning a debate is much easier if you can choose the topic to be argued. Passing an exam is much easier if the candidate can choose the questions.
The debate about the fate of Rangers is currently being dictated to a large extent by bean-counters and their media apologists. They have chosen the weapons, selected the battleground, dictated the topic and are choosing the questions while the vast majority of Scottish football supporters want to conduct this debate on different grounds, with different priorities, addressing different questions and using different weapons. This must not be allowed to continue.

There is one issue which should be the only show in town. It is integrity.

There can be no escape from this. Without integrity, the game’s a bogey. Every commentator who so much as hesitates to evaluate every other aspect of the case from that viewpoint should be called to account immediately. Such people have abrogated their right to contribute to the discussion of what is best for the sport.

There is no business argument which takes precedence over sporting integrity. The entire point of the game is that players can get a fair test of their ability against opponents on a level playing field. If that fairness is corrupted, the game becomes pointless, irrelevant, redundant and a waste of everybody’s time, effort and money. The sooner a corrupt business dies, the better for every decent person. If football allows itself to be blackmailed by cheats because it isn’t prepared to defend its integrity then it fully deserves to perish.

In short, the essence of the football business is integrity. Everything else is secondary at best and irrelevant at the very least. The further the discussion moves away from the focal point of integrity, the more it threatens the well-being of the game. No journalist or broadcaster or football director or SPL functionary or SFA official should ever even contemplate denying that fair play is the be-all and end-all of professional sport.

Fairness is not about guaranteeing that one particular club will prosper in a competition just because it has more followers than other clubs. It is not about ensuring that, come what may, two clubs will always play in the top half of the top division because that’s what Rupert Murdoch’s shilling demands. Putting that another way, fairness does not permit decent professionals who have worked hard, tried their hardest and played the game to the best of their ability to accept that they are to be swindled out of their win bonuses and honours because they are plying their trade with a club which is held to be a less attractive commercial proposition than its rival. Unless there is fair play at every level of the competition, the entire exercise a complete waste of time and, worse still, a cynical fraud.

Let there be no respect for any argument which is ambivalent about the pre-eminence of the principle of integrity in professional football. To compromise that principle is the ultimate sell-out. There are few surer ways to bring about the ultimate destruction of the game than to let the customers realise that they are being completely conned and sold short. We must refuse to accept any terms of reference which relegate integrity to the sidelines or dismiss it as an impractical ideal which has no place in commercial activity.

Integrity belongs at very the core of football’s commercial activity and it has never been more important to defend it than at the present time when the Scottish game is facing its biggest test.

All very well put. To be honest, for me the issue is broader than the specifics of this case even. If we assume that Rangers are allowed to stay in the SPL, albeit in a far more modest form, and they find themselves playing with their under 19s and scrambling around the bottom of the league, are they then not allowed to be relegated either should they finish bottom? Do we say that Rangers are above the law and can basically do what they want, the same obviously going for Celtic. Is there a sliding scale of allowed lawlessness based upon average travelling support and attractiveness to the television networks? Where are Hibs on that scale, and what are we allowed to get away with?

[Saorsa]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

From a Rangers Forum - do the bouncy it's on tapatalk so giving me my fix of watching them squirm whilst I can't get on Rangers media

"I've just watched the full 40 minute conference, with a large glass of wine. I am absolutely gutted these guys never got the club this week.

I wish someone had asked during that conference if they felt that ***** was involved with Dumb & Dumber, as I just cannot undersand them not getting it after meeting the Quantum terms!

This would have been Rangers men... with money... Getting us out of this mess.

The bottom line now basically means that we need an Abramovich and nothing else will save us.

Sorry Bears... This is a dark, dark time not only for Rangers, but also for all of Scotland and Scottish Football!"

Good time for Scotland for me :)

dark time for Scotland and Scottish fitba! I doubt there'll be many out with huns, the weegie media, the SFA and the OF stooges at the SPL who will agree with that view point.



personally speaking I think it's one of the best and funniest things ever tae happen.

[calmac12000]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

About 40 pages in - every current bun should be made to sit down and read this, including Ally McCoist, who today still felt no remorse for his despicable incitement to out and demonise the panel members. 'I didn't know who they were' - bawllocks Ally

.
Tut, tut have you forgotten the level of literacy of an orc!

[green glory]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

dark time for Scotland and Scottish fitba! I doubt there'll be many out with huns, the weegie media, the SFA and the OF stooges at the SPL who will agree with that view point.

personally speaking I think it's one of the best and funniest things ever tae happen.

It's probably going. To get even funnier in the next couple of days. They'll all be bawling they're bigoted eyes out tomorrow in Perth, and hopefully Monday will see them pushed into the grave. Tee-hee!

[Lungo--Drom]

Desperate Dan, totally agree, sums it up for me. A brilliant summary. The following from your list all need to wake up, look up and smell the f***** coffee!

>weegie media
>SFA
>OF stooges at the SPL

I didn't put ">Huns" on the list because hopefully they will have returned to their hive and then the big bee keeper upstairs sets fire to it.

For so many years now it, and by 'it' I mean the picture portrayed and sent out on the airwaves of TV and radio and in the printed pages of the newspapers and magazines, has been totally dominated by the OF in way which seems to suggest that all other Scottish football teams are just a warm up side show for the "main event", aka the OF. I don't remember it being as bad as this when I was a kid so it must slowly have become this way. The whole thing has become so blatant really. I've even heard 'commentators' and newsreaders on the TV and radio gassing on about the OF for a good five minutes then saying, "On to the other teams news now". These clowns, as per your list DD, all need to look at the SPL table and notice that it has 12 teams in it so amazingly they might be shocked to learn that the OF are individually only 1/12th of the SPL picture each, and that's before we consider the SFL.

Like an earlier poster said, the demise of Der Hun could be the wake up call that Scottish football and Scottish media needs to make it take a good honest look at itself and try and remember that all our teams were formed for competing in a sport, not as convenient money making logo'd marketing tools. It's time to save Scottish football from being just another part of the line-up on Sky television.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

dark time! I doubt there'll be many out with
huns, the weegie media, the SFA and the OF
stooges at the SPL who will agree with that
view point personally speaking I think it's one of the best and funniest things ever IMO.

[Saorsa]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's probably going. To get even funnier in the next couple of days. They'll all be bawling they're bigoted eyes out tomorrow in Perth, and hopefully Monday will see them pushed into the grave. Tee-hee!

[lapsedhibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I liked this blog post from someone called Henry Clarson. It summarises an important point for me.

http://henryclarson.wordpress.com/20...egrity-stupid/

The key to winning a battle is very often the ability to choose the weapons, the battleground and the timing. Winning a debate is much easier if you can choose the topic to be argued. Passing an exam is much easier if the candidate can choose the questions.
The debate about the fate of Rangers is currently being dictated to a large extent by bean-counters and their media apologists. They have chosen the weapons, selected the battleground, dictated the topic and are choosing the questions while the vast majority of Scottish football supporters want to conduct this debate on different grounds, with different priorities, addressing different questions and using different weapons. This must not be allowed to continue.

There is one issue which should be the only show in town. It is integrity.

There can be no escape from this. Without integrity, the game’s a bogey. Every commentator who so much as hesitates to evaluate every other aspect of the case from that viewpoint should be called to account immediately. Such people have abrogated their right to contribute to the discussion of what is best for the sport.

There is no business argument which takes precedence over sporting integrity. The entire point of the game is that players can get a fair test of their ability against opponents on a level playing field. If that fairness is corrupted, the game becomes pointless, irrelevant, redundant and a waste of everybody’s time, effort and money. The sooner a corrupt business dies, the better for every decent person. If football allows itself to be blackmailed by cheats because it isn’t prepared to defend its integrity then it fully deserves to perish.

In short, the essence of the football business is integrity. Everything else is secondary at best and irrelevant at the very least. The further the discussion moves away from the focal point of integrity, the more it threatens the well-being of the game. No journalist or broadcaster or football director or SPL functionary or SFA official should ever even contemplate denying that fair play is the be-all and end-all of professional sport.

Fairness is not about guaranteeing that one particular club will prosper in a competition just because it has more followers than other clubs. It is not about ensuring that, come what may, two clubs will always play in the top half of the top division because that’s what Rupert Murdoch’s shilling demands. Putting that another way, fairness does not permit decent professionals who have worked hard, tried their hardest and played the game to the best of their ability to accept that they are to be swindled out of their win bonuses and honours because they are plying their trade with a club which is held to be a less attractive commercial proposition than its rival. Unless there is fair play at every level of the competition, the entire exercise a complete waste of time and, worse still, a cynical fraud.

Let there be no respect for any argument which is ambivalent about the pre-eminence of the principle of integrity in professional football. To compromise that principle is the ultimate sell-out. There are few surer ways to bring about the ultimate destruction of the game than to let the customers realise that they are being completely conned and sold short. We must refuse to accept any terms of reference which relegate integrity to the sidelines or dismiss it as an impractical ideal which has no place in commercial activity.

Integrity belongs at very the core of football’s commercial activity and it has never been more important to defend it than at the present time when the Scottish game is facing its biggest test.

Well written blog.

And worth remembering, I think, that when the whole fraud first got an airing on national TV, it was Petrie who spoke up about sporting integrity when all or nearly all around him were giving it very large with the 'Scottish football needs a strong HunFC'. Well done Rod!

[greenginger]

Great piece by Henryclarson. It should be compulsory reading for the Chairman of Kilmarnock, St Johnston and other " Vichy" Clubs as well as Doncaster and the SFA Blazers.

Hopefully the SFA report on Rangers gives them little wriggle room, mind you if the bears try to intimidate the appeals panel it might even be the end of the road for der Hun.