Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[calmac12000]

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TUPE governs the transfer of employees from one entity to another and will:

• protect players existing terms and conditions when they transfer into Newco
• allow the players to walk for hee haw at the time of staff transfer.

Have you forgotten that normal law doesn;t apply to 'ra Rangers!

[hibs0666]

Alex Thomson implying that Lloyds Bank have been sending letters to SPL clubs. Can only assume that the letters relate to the huns administration in some way.

[Lungo--Drom]

I remember when R*****s were playing in Manchester, remember that? The night their loyal followers smashed up Manchester city centre and each other, anyway I was driving back north on the M74 after working in Carlisle that day. Gradually I started to get overtaken by big BMWs wi RFC number plates and the like. Not who I wanted to be sharing the motorway with, but then I saw an overbridge and some C****c lads must've been out, cause there was a banner hanging from the railings and it said, "Burn A Hun, Burn a Hundred" That's it. Classic. That's what it said :)

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The same with the BBC interview (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/17943429) where he repeatedly refers to the priority being keeping the club going.

I thought on the open market the players/Ibrox/Murray Park etc could generate more than the £11m they're talking about for creditors, unless they are guaranteed a slice of any future income (unlikely).

[Brando7]

pretty poor statement from the SFA

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish...wsCategoryID=1

[Jim44]

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pretty poor statement from the SFA

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish...wsCategoryID=1

In other words. - 'welcome back, Rangers. What was all the fuss about.'

[greenginger]

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In other words. - 'welcome back, Rangers. What was all the fuss about.'

Or, " A sustainable future for the Club " Start again in the 3 rd division and learn some humility !

Well you can always dream.

[stokesmessiah]

I am shocked

An #SPL source tells me they would have no problem with #Rangers transferring players contracts to a newco company.@BBCchrismclaug 7 hours ago

[jgl07]

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I am shocked

An #SPL source tells me they would have no problem with #Rangers transferring players contracts to a newco company.@BBCchrismclaug 7 hours ago

Now let me guess, that would be Doncaster?

The SPL clubs will have to have a say on this.

Doncaster spent half of last season reporting that the SPL were on the point of agreeing to the 10-club league setup despite the fact that several clubs were not prepared to sign up.

To be honest if Doncaster reported that Hibs were to play Hearts in the Scottish Cup final I would question if this was true. He is very untrustworthy indeed.

[Stonewall]

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TUPE governs the transfer of employees from one entity to another and will:

• protect players existing terms and conditions when they transfer into Newco
• allow the players to walk for hee haw at the time of staff transfer.

There are ways around TUPE though. eg if it's a transfer of shares then the purchasers can get around the regs. I srate this as a victim.

[TrickyNicky]

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Michel Platini was going to get UEFA involved but has changed his mind now that he's seen this heartfelt masterpiece

http://youtu.be/ek7SfViBvJs

Thair the ones I feel sorry for in all of this, a great voice and a big heart !


:giruy:

[down-the-slope]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/17947695#asset

This radio interview with Paul Murray (may have been posted already) has lots of very interesting bits...D&P not playing with straight bat if you take from what Murray says....

Also very interesting that Europe income was totaly crucial to thier business plan cash flow...and in effect he is saying any NewCo = none for 3 years (which is why they were only going for CVA) and that in effect he can't see finances working without it.....

It just gets more ridiculous....so not only do they need to be in SPL...BUT they need Champs league income for it to work....they are royaly busted if thats the sand they are built on....

[CropleyWasGod]

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I am shocked

An #SPL source tells me they would have no problem with #Rangers transferring players contracts to a newco company.@BBCchrismclaug 7 hours ago

Is it their call? I thought it would be up to the SFA

[H18sry]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/05...6908-23848533/

[Caversham Green]

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http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/05...6908-23848533/

This bit interests me:

Meanwhile, ESPN have denied they are ready to pull the plug on their contract with the SPL.
An inaccurate report suggested the uncertainty over Rangers’ future had prompted the broadcaster to ditch the agreement drawn up for the next four seasons.

In the recent radio discussion Doncaster was very evasive about whether the new contract contained a 'four OF games' clause but openly admitted that the old one did. This suggests that the new one doesn't and Doncaster has been scaremongering. I think his position is close to becoming untenable.

[down-the-slope]

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/17947695#asset

This radio interview with Paul Murray (may have been posted already) has lots of very interesting bits...D&P not playing with straight bat if you take from what Murray says....

Also very interesting that Europe income was totaly crucial to thier business plan cash flow...and in effect he is saying any NewCo = none for 3 years (which is why they were only going for CVA) and that in effect he can't see finances working without it.....

It just gets more ridiculous....so not only do they need to be in SPL...BUT they need Champs league income for it to work....they are royaly busted if thats the sand they are built on....

PS. So Murray reckoned they needed 'double digit million' (so 10+ million) funding to get past first year with no Euro income....and under NewCo that would be needed for 3 years...Buffalo Bill who was talking about living within their means (I take that as i'm not putting my cash in) won't wear that...so when he realises UEFA won't roll over he will either walk away....or they will be radical running cost cuts...(even if all the other hurdles can be jumped)

[ScottB]

Sorry but how can a club with 50,000 paying supporters not at the least break even without a substantial pot of European money?

So Paul Murray has learned squat from the Whyte / Leeds United plan, and he's complaining his bid wasn't chosen? What nonsense!

Post CVA / liquidation, as long wages are kept under turnover I don't see how it would be difficult to have them turning at least a small profit.

[Caversham Green]

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http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/05...6908-23848533/

Another thought on this.

The board members want the full vote because they fear reprisals against their clubs - presumably from Rangers fans. That suggests they did not intend to just rubber-stamp a newco's entry into the SPL after all. Encouraging if that is the case.

BTW, I thought there were six members on the board including someone from Celtc. The report only mentions five.

[BarneyK]

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/17947695#asset

This radio interview with Paul Murray (may have been posted already) has lots of very interesting bits...D&P not playing with straight bat if you take from what Murray says....

Also very interesting that Europe income was totaly crucial to thier business plan cash flow...and in effect he is saying any NewCo = none for 3 years (which is why they were only going for CVA) and that in effect he can't see finances working without it.....

It just gets more ridiculous....so not only do they need to be in SPL...BUT they need Champs league income for it to work....they are royaly busted if thats the sand they are built on....

I get the impression that Paul Murray thinks that Rangers need to be strong and competitive, whereas Bill Murray will cut back the squad to the bare bones, anything to turn a profit. The latter obviously doesnae fit in with their perceived place in the footballing world

[greenginger]

http://www.sfo.gov.uk/fraud/what-is-...stripping.aspx


I think this is the exact template of what Duff and Duffer are proposing the purchaser of Rangers F C in Administration should do. Great when Officers of the Court are actively encouraging fraud.

There is a report suspected fraud Tel Number if anyone on here feels incensed enough to give them a call.

[TheEastTerrace]

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Another thought on this.

The board members want the full vote because they fear reprisals against their clubs - presumably from Rangers fans. That suggests they did not intend to just rubber-stamp a newco's entry into the SPL after all. Encouraging if that is the case.

BTW, I thought there were six members on the board including someone from Celtc. The report only mentions five.

Sandy Jardine basically threatened sanctions on the other SPL clubs who would be deemed to be 'unfair on Rangers'.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Another thought on this.

The board members want the full vote because they fear reprisals against their clubs - presumably from Rangers fans. That suggests they did not intend to just rubber-stamp a newco's entry into the SPL after all. Encouraging if that is the case.

BTW, I thought there were six members on the board including someone from Celtc. The report only mentions five.

I shared your optimism when I read the article too.

Also, yeah, I thought there were six on the board... and that Butch Topping would have the casting vote if it were tied.

[Kojock]

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Another thought on this.

The board members want the full vote because they fear reprisals against their clubs - presumably from Rangers fans. That suggests they did not intend to just rubber-stamp a newco's entry into the SPL after all. Encouraging if that is the case.

BTW, I thought there were six members on the board including someone from Celtc. The report only mentions five.

OR

The board members want the full vote because they fear reprisals against their clubs - presumably from other SPL Clubs Chairmen and fans. That suggests they did intend to just rubber-stamp a newco's entry into the SPL after all. Not encouraging if that is the case.

[down-the-slope]

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Sorry but how can a club with 50,000 paying supporters not at the least break even without a substantial pot of European money?

So Paul Murray has learned squat from the Whyte / Leeds United plan, and he's complaining his bid wasn't chosen? What nonsense!

Post CVA / liquidation, as long wages are kept under turnover I don't see how it would be difficult to have them turning at least a small profit.

But that is the point...current spending is way beyond income (without Euro income) so either keeping this income / investing millions to cover this deficit / cutting costs (dumping most of current squad and replacing with cheaper alternatives) are the 3 options...

NewCo means can't keep income / BK admitting they dont have cash to burn to fill 3 year gap (Does will Buffalo Bill?) / third option the fans (who don't do walking away) wont stomach.....

[down-the-slope]

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I get the impression that Paul Murray thinks that Rangers need to be strong and competitive, whereas Bill Murray will cut back the squad to the bare bones, anything to turn a profit. The latter obviously doesnae fit in with their perceived place in the footballing world

....I predict Buffalo Bill won't see it through...and we will see BK back...but that would mean a long drawn out affair with Rangers suffering more sanctions etc

[Caversham Green]

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OR

The board members want the full vote because they fear reprisals against their clubs - presumably from other SPL Clubs Chairmen and fans. That suggests they did intend to just rubber-stamp a newco's entry into the SPL after all. Not encouraging if that is the case.

But that would suggest that the other clubs are against newco's entry, and they are now getting a vote. And the Rangers fans (egged on by employees of the club) are the only ones who have openly threatened 'sanctions' against anyone.

At least it's going to a full vote which has to be the right thing IMO. Does anyone know what the majority needs to be? This is one area where I think it should be unanimous - i.e. 11-1.

[BEEJ]

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Now let me guess, that would be Doncaster?

The SPL clubs will have to have a say on this.

Doncaster spent half of last season reporting that the SPL were on the point of agreeing to the 10-club league setup despite the fact that several clubs were not prepared to sign up.

To be honest if Doncaster reported that Hibs were to play Hearts in the Scottish Cup final I would question if this was true. He is very untrustworthy indeed.

Agreed.

Master of the positive soundbite and of making patronising, simplistic statements to the media, he always comes across as someone who hasn't the faintest grasp of the complex situations he's tasked with handling.

He does, however, appear to possess a level of confidence in his own abilities that is remarkable for someone quite so incompetent.

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This bit interests me:

In the recent radio discussion Doncaster was very evasive about whether the new contract contained a 'four OF games' clause but openly admitted that the old one did. This suggests that the new one doesn't and Doncaster has been scaremongering. I think his position is close to becoming untenable.

In any normal profession, that would certainly be the case. Here's hoping the clock is ticking for him.

[down-the-slope]

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OR

The board members want the full vote because they fear reprisals against their clubs - presumably from other SPL Clubs Chairmen and fans. That suggests they did intend to just rubber-stamp a newco's entry into the SPL after all. Not encouraging if that is the case.

OR....Topping & Doncaster have 'suggested' this senario...as they know they will get pelters if they are back in too easy and they are part of vote...and are relying on self interest of enough of SPL chairmen to get their way in wider vote...while they don't get blame....

[cad]

When is the bell going to ring in all this ,no more answers put your pens down ,we will give you a result shortly ,whens D day .
The best way to described Rangers IMO is that they are troublesome keek that just wont go away no matter how many times you flush ,but through time eventually it does go you just got to keep battering it with the appropriate chemicals ,

[Kojock]

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....I predict Buffalo Bill won't see it through...and we will see BK back

I go with this as well.

[MrSmith]

Key Criteria:

Serious Fraud Office [SFO] criteria

SFO's criteria for taking on a case
By law we can investigate only those cases where there is evidence to show that serious or complex fraud, and corruption has taken place.
To determine the seriousness and complexity of a particular matter then it may be useful to ask yourself the following questions:
The key factors we consider before taking on a case:

• Does the value of the alleged fraud exceed £1 million?
• Is there a significant international dimension?
• Is the case likely to be of widespread public concern?
• Does the case require highly specialised knowledge, e.g. of financial markets?
• Is there a need to use the SFO's special powers, such as Section 2 of the Criminal Justice Act?

Serious and complex: what do we look for?
In addition to the above criteria we look for factors such as:
Is it serious?

• Whether the fraud will impact on the integrity of the financial market
• Whether there is a wider group than shareholders or creditors who have lost money as a result of the alleged fraud
• Whether the fraudsters have targeted financial institutions and government (local or central) or other public serving authorities

Is it complex?

• Whether the case involves multiple countries
• Whether the evidential material to be obtained during the course of the investigation will be found in multiple locations (within the UK or in other countries)
• Whether the case involves multiple and complex financial transactions - e.g. involving many companies, accounts, Trusts and countries
• Whether the investigation will need to involve a large accountancy analysis

If your case of fraud fits the above criteria then please submit as much information as possible, in total confidence, at:
https://report.sfo.gov.uk/sfo-confidential---provide-information-in-confidence.aspx
or contact us directly through our SFO Confidential hotline on 0207 239 7388.