Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Hibernia&Alba]

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They're their Union Jack boxers over on Hunmedia. The Herald meant to be running a story tomorrow where the admins are now talking about liquidation now being a real possibility. Bottom line, no one but Club 9 can really buy them. Liquidation is their preferred route. This week is going to be a . Get the tissues in boys.

The ostriches might actually be taking their heads out of the sand now. Shame it's too late eh?

Very well put.

[greenginger]

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That is my one fear about a Phoenix Rangers being placed in Division 3. Quite simply the impact they would have on the clubs who are in their natural home in that league like East Stirling , Montrose, Stranraer and so on. The presence of Rangers requires much greater infrastructure than those teams (none of whom are particularly strong financially) can hope to have and will also require far more expensive policing and security. Having an attendance norm of 300- 500 suddenly multiplied by 10 could be catastrophic financially for the would the revenue from a league game with Rangers be enough to cover costs?
Personally, I just don't know.

Rangers went to Arbroath and Celtic went to Peterhead in the Scottish Cup this year and the matches took place without any trouble.

I think it would be seen as part of the punishment, that a cheating club like Rangers should be made to start from the bottom and work their way back up.

It would provide additional finance to smaller clubs throughout the Leagues and just maybe it might get through to the thick hordes that, in sport, nobody want to play with CHEATS !

[grunt]

Oh dear. Self interest rearing its ugly head...

http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-...-spl-1-2209453

[down-the-slope]

STEVE Brown, the St Johnstone chairman, has warned that if Rangers go into liquidation and are not permitted to re-enter the SPL as a new company, several top-flight clubs would go out of business.
One of the six members of the SPL board whose job it would be to consider an application by the “new” Rangers, Brown stressed that he had yet to make up his mind as to what would be the most appropriate course of action.
He said that he hoped never to be faced with the decision but, if he was, he would have to weigh sporting integrity against the cost to clubs such as his own. Refusing to grant the Glasgow club an SPL licence would, in his view, lead to a financial “disaster”.
Asked if he meant that some clubs would go to the wall, Brown replied: “I think they would. I think a lot of them are kidding themselves on. One or two of them are on the brink as it is. If they’re on the brink as it is, and they’re getting support financially from Rangers and Sky, there can only be one thing [that would happen].”
In an exclusive interview with Scotland on Sunday, Brown also called for a more conciliatory approach by the SPL’s non-Old Firm clubs to the current row over voting rights. Some have said that they would consider resigning from the top flight in protest.
He says that only the best-run clubs would survive in a league without the Old Firm. “Would you get by without the Old Firm? We [at St Johnstone] would get by. We’ve demonstrated that because we’ve been in the First Division for seven years, but you certainly wouldn’t have the same calibre of player at your club. Could the other teams get by without the Old Firm? I think three or four of them would go out of business. Careful what you wish for.”
Brown says that, if a newco Rangers were to be excluded from the SPL, the economic impact would outweigh any other benefits. “You probably would get more supporters because your team would be likely to be more competitive, but in financial terms, it would be a disaster, an absolute disaster.
“In financial terms, I can’t see how [the other clubs] could possibly fill the gap. The revenue they [Rangers] bring with them equates to probably three or four games against teams from the bottom six. It’s a huge void, both in gate revenue and TV money because it is my understanding that the Sky contract would fall through.”


Bit in bold for me......we want a league with well run (living within means) clubs...if other go bust then so be it...time for the SPL to be run on a different basis where clubs like ours who have invested in infastructure and youth programms get the benefit of that and are not 'cheated' by others. Brown has done a great job with St J...but they need to get more of their own fans in their ground and not rely on filling it a few times a season with bigger teams fans.

I also think if he is on panel that will stand in judgement then he should not really be doing interviews like this .....

[Jim44]

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Oh dear. Self interest rearing its ugly head...

http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-...-spl-1-2209453

With that attitude, the baw's bust and we might as well pack up and get back to comfortable subservience. No wonder Rantic treat everyone like dirt.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Sounds to me like he is saying drop yer kecks, bend over and grab your ankles, something is coming and you ain't gonna like it.

[DaveF]

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Oh dear. Self interest rearing its ugly head...

http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-...-spl-1-2209453

If Brown has one of six votes, who holds the other five? His attitude sums up everything that is wrong with scottish football.

[greenginger]

The Journalist is again stating the decision to grant New-Co Huns re-entry into the SPL rests with the SPL management committee rather than the whole league in general meeting passing a qualified resolution as per the SPL Articles of Association Clause 14.

Has anyone on here read an explanation anywhere as to why this would be the case ?

[down-the-slope]

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With that attitude, the baw's bust and we might as well pack up and get back to comfortable subservience. No wonder Rantic treat everyone like dirt.

Sadly true....

So what if we go back (in some natural way) to the time of late 70's / early 80's when the OF were not very good winning everything and 15,000 crowds were not unusual for the OF.....are we going to just make up the rules so they win/ keep big crowds / have happy SKY

YES we should run clubs in a business like way...BUT they are sporting clubs firstly and without sporting integrity they are nothing.

All this cobblers about money = good football / better standard. Scotland will never compete with England on our door step for best players...so why pay such huge wages to get mediocre players...

A season of Watching our double winning U19's shows you can have great football / entertainment / competition.....and very little money involved....there are now players on the dole due to shrinking squads...we need to find a level of sustainable wage, for which there will always be players willing to play for as it will still be better than blokes grafting on building sites (as example) are earning...of course the best will move on...but they do anyway now...

[matty_f]

What price sporting integrity?
People like Brown need to realise that failing to dothe right thing will drive fans away in their droves. Why would I or anyone else shell out £400 on a season ticket knowing full well we've been cheated for years and now the league isn't even pretending it's a level playing field? The SPL can GTF if they bend over to Rangers.

[down-the-slope]

For me its the symbolic things that need to be held onto...I hope Gers do go pop....then NewCo Huns will have zero history...no right to have a Wee star on their shirts...no records...no titles....and less SC wins than Hibs

That in its self will be punishment...

[DaveF]

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What price sporting integrity?
People like Brown need to realise that failing to dothe right thing will drive fans away in their droves. Why would I or anyone else shell out £400 on a season ticket knowing full well we've been cheated for years and now the league isn't even pretending it's a level playing field? The SPL can GTF if they bend over to Rangers.

Well said Matty. As much as I love Hibs, I will be sending them a message in the form non attendance to register my disgust if this farce pans out as looks likely. Its a longer drive, but I'll get my Hibs fix by watching tne 19s.

Hopefully the spl do not roll over on this one.

[Caversham Green]

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With that attitude, the baw's bust and we might as well pack up and get back to comfortable subservience. No wonder Rantic treat everyone like dirt.

The implication is that it was any of the other 10 clubs in the huns' place - including his own St Johnstone - they would suffer the consequences, but because it's one of the old firm special concessions should be made.

Probably the most depressing comment I've read so far on the matter (Edit: I mean Brown's comment, not yours Jim).

[Hibs Class]

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What price sporting integrity?
People like Brown need to realise that failing to dothe right thing will drive fans away in their droves. Why would I or anyone else shell out £400 on a season ticket knowing full well we've been cheated for years and now the league isn't even pretending it's a level playing field? The SPL can GTF if they bend over to Rangers.

Agree completely. We have already written off renewing our STs for the early bird offer as this week's deadline will pass with too many unanswered questions. If it plays out as is suggested today then we won't be renewing at all.

[Eyrie]

It was Brown's father Geoff who is responsible for how well run St Johnstone are, and very disappointing that his son has come out with such stupid comments.

Does he really expect that teams like Dunfermline, Kilmarnock or Inverness have budgets for the next 2-3 years which assume they are in the SPL and so would be bankrupt if relegated?

[Leithenhibby]

The fans will drift away faster than a "blink of an eye" if Mr Brown get's is way It's just sad to see the game we love get in this mess, with people like him bending over with such ease.. IT'S WRONG..

Sunday Herald warns them to take the "Brace Position"

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/...again.17193773

[Jack]

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The Journalist is again stating the decision to grant New-Co Huns re-entry into the SPL rests with the SPL management committee rather than the whole league in general meeting passing a qualified resolution as per the SPL Articles of Association Clause 14.

Has anyone on here read an explanation anywhere as to why this would be the case ?

I think the important part for you is this I think and where folk are fudging the edges;

"One of the six members of the SPL board whose job it
would be to consider an application by the “new” Rangers"

I would imagine it would be this groups job to CONSIDER an application then make a recommendation to the full board.

As others keep on saying if they get right back in the games a bogie.

I'd also be surprised if UEFA allowed such cheating to go on unchecked, indeed condoned, given all the financial irregularity waggly finger they keep waggling.

As Hibs we keep thinking the OF won't be touched by the Scottish authorities and it will be the likes of us that will be made an example of, UEFA have no great love for those irksome rangers who spoil the finals fun with rioting, looting and folk songs.

Whatever the outcomes I expected the SFA will be hauled up to UEFA to answer a few very scary questions.

[grunt]

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Sunday Herald warns them to take the "Brace Position"

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/...again.17193773

"You can name-swap so there is no impediment to any newco calling itself Glasgow Rangers". Since when were they called Glasgow Rangers? You'd have thought the administrators would know the name of the club by now?

[greenginger]

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I think the important part for you is this I think and where folk are fudging the edges;

"One of the six members of the SPL board whose job it
would be to consider an application by the “new” Rangers"

I would imagine it would be this groups job to CONSIDER an application then make a recommendation to the full board.

As others keep on saying if they get right back in the games a bogie.

I'd also be surprised if UEFA allowed such cheating to go on unchecked, indeed condoned, given all the financial irregularity waggly finger they keep waggling.

As Hibs we keep thinking the OF won't be touched by the Scottish authorities and it will be the likes of us that will be made an example of, UEFA have no great love for those irksome rangers who spoil the finals fun with rioting, looting and folk songs.

Whatever the outcomes I expected the SFA will be hauled up to UEFA to answer a few very scary questions.

Thanks for that, its calmed my rage down a little. but somehow I cannot envisage the Sporting Hacks appreciating the different nuances involved. I think I might give Mr Paul Forsyth a call on Monday.

[grunt]

The PR machine is moving up the gears. Here's an article from "Walter" which makes my blood boil.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/...lible.17182292

Interesting headline, too. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in the article, so it is not clear who said it, annd who is referenced.
And another point, this is the guy who was manager during all the EBT cheating. Why does he still have a voice in this?

[Leithenhibby]

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The PR machine is moving up the gears. Here's an article from "Walter" which makes my blood boil.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/...lible.17182292

Interesting headline, too. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in the article, so it is not clear who said it, annd who is referenced.
And another point, this is the guy who was manager during all the EBT cheating. Why does he still have a voice in this?

It stinks, and is rotten to the core ......

End-Game is not too far away me thinks.... I can see this getting so messy If not already....

[Keith_M]

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The PR machine is moving up the gears. Here's an article from "Walter" which makes my blood boil.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/...lible.17182292

Interesting headline, too. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in the article, so it is not clear who said it, annd who is referenced.
And another point, this is the guy who was manager during all the EBT cheating. Why does he still have a voice in this?

"Gutless. Greedy. Gullible."

As that's the headline, but it's never once mentioned in the article, I can only assume that it's the official view of the Herald.

No chance of the article mentioning what the other ten actually want, just continual bleeting that they want to wreck Rantic's chances of success in Europe. No mention of Rantic's attempts to leave the SPL, or any of the reasons Rangers are in the mess they're in (presumably it's still everybody else's fault)

All this from the man in charge of Rangers during the years they were breaking the rules.

[matty_f]

Walter Smih can GTF as well. Rangers and Celtc have had cosy wee secret meetings behind the backs of the other SPL clubs for years, ensuring the status quo and their dominance in the process. They've not given the wider aspects of Scottish football a second's thought
The OF would happily have shafted us all if the Premiership had entertained the notion of them joining but now we're supposed to be sympathetic because Scotland needs them? GTF you stupid auld welt.
I hope Rangers die soon and I hope the rest of Scottish football takes a moment to pish on its rotten, cheating corpse.

[James70]

To try and simplify there would now appear to be two possible outcomes to the whole situation.

1) Rangers or whatever they may be called in future have to start life in the 3rd division, the smaller SPL clubs are then seen as turkeys voting for Christmas because of the loss of Sky tv money and no visiting Rangers fans twice a season.

OR

2) The other SPL chairmen who make up the management committee decide to sell their souls for 30 pieces of silver, Rangers stay in the SPL debt free and in a stronger financial position than they have been in for several years and the rest of the SPL clubs outwith the OF lose fans in their thousands who have completely lost respect for their own clubs stance in the matter.

It would be fantastic if the other SPL clubs were to tender a mass resignation from the SPL leaving the OF to play each other every week because no other leagues want them. Scottish football must be the laughing stock of Europe and if Rangers are allowed to remain in the SPL after being liquidated we will never be taken seriously again.

[BroxburnHibee]

I still think that there will be some form of sanction - there has to be.

As has been mentioned before, SPL2 seems to be the likely solution.

No way will NewCo Gers end up in the 3rd division IMO.

[DaveF]

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I still think that there will be some form of sanction - there has to be.

I would not be so certain. They have already taken the 10 point penalty and IIRC Motherwell got by with only that sanction being applied. OK, they were not contemplating liquidation, but I think there is every chance a Newco Huns will find plenty of open doors should they need them.

[Caversham Green]

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I still think that there will be some form of sanction - there has to be.

As has been mentioned before, SPL2 seems to be the likely solution.

No way will NewCo Gers end up in the 3rd division IMO.

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I would not be so certain. They have already taken the 10 point penalty and IIRC Motherwell got by with only that sanction being applied. OK, they were not contemplating liquidation, but I think there is every chance a Newco Huns will find plenty of open doors should they need them.

It's not actually a sanction though. There are two issues here - RFC going bust and RFC breaking the rules. If RFC go bust - i.e. are liquidated it is the concept of a new and different club being allowed to take their place in the top league because they have affiliated themselves to the old huns. Morally they have less right to that place than Stirling Albion or Brechin Cty for example.

The other issue - breaking the rules goes away if Newhun is formed but IMO should still be considered because Newhun have affiliated themselves to the Oldhun cheats. If RFC stay afloat then they still have the cheating accusations to answer. There's also the matter of an officer of RFC dishonestly gaining access to confidential information in St Mirren's books. I think that is bigger than it first appears and I hope the Buddies take it further.

[Onion]

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If Brown has one of six votes, who holds the other five? His attitude sums up everything that is wrong with scottish football.

Those clubs that Do vote in favour of the newHuns getting straight back into the SPL MUST be named and shamed !! There is simply no place for self interest over sporting integrity in ANY SPORT.

If that's the way it goes, then a lot of clubs will STILL go down the tubes, as honest supporters of non-OF clubs would simply refuse to go back. WHY give your money to these self-serving guardians of our game (like this ST J muppet) when all they are interested in keeping themselves in jobs ?? Scottish Football would finally bring itself into disrepute throughout the footballing world - we would be a laughing stock - and would die a slow death over the next few months & years.

[BroxburnHibee]

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I would not be so certain. They have already taken the 10 point penalty and IIRC Motherwell got by with only that sanction being applied. OK, they were not contemplating liquidation, but I think there is every chance a Newco Huns will find plenty of open doors should they need them.

I meant if they are liquidated which I have always felt was the most likely outcome.

[Onion]

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It's not actually a sanction though. There are two issues here - RFC going bust and RFC breaking the rules. If RFC go bust - i.e. are liquidated it is the concept of a new and different club being allowed to take their place in the top league because they have affiliated themselves to the old huns. Morally they have less right to that place than Stirling Albion or Brechin Cty for example.

The other issue - breaking the rules goes away if Newhun is formed but IMO should still be considered because Newhun have affiliated themselves to the Oldhun cheats. If RFC stay afloat then they still have the cheating accusations to answer. There's also the matter of an officer of RFC dishonestly gaining access to confidential information in St Mirren's books. I think that is bigger than it first appears and I hope the Buddies take it further.