anyone worried about it?
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anyone worried about it?
I can't see the point in worrying. Fairly depressing to think little will be done to stop it and many of the population seem more concerned with being held up on a motorway than the planet burning. T
if so, can you see the point in anything?Quote:
Originally Posted by wookie70
i wonder if part of the problem is that it still seems like a somewhat abstract notion to a lot of people - famines and floods have always been going on 'abroad', and one insane heatwave doesn't prove anything on an emotional level...
i don't have kids, but i find it totally nuts that anyone who does isn't in full, constant fight-or-flight panic for the future they will have. it might sound pointless, but it's a lot less pointless than doing nothing and complaining when people trying to do something inconvenience you.
If I let myself worry I think it would be all consuming. It is too horrible to imagine. I do have kids and I do worry about their future but I also can't see the human race doing much about it until things change so dramatically that the damage will be irreparable. Where can I flight too and how can I fight it.Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentDaleCooper
I only choose not to worry as I don't feel I can do anything to change it. I will recycle etc and am trying to get solar fitted etc but none of that will matter unless the whole way the world is governed changes. And that won't happen with anything other than climate change massively effecting the Western World. I try to worry about things I can change or have a bearing on. Yes, smaller worries are trifling in comparison but I can try to make these things change and help my kids etc. I have always felt guilty about not having the guts to protest to the extent that my liberty could be in jeopardy. I applaud those that are fighting and they have my full moral and emotional support. The flight I have chosen is to not spend my days worrying about an impending apocalypse that I feel is now inevitable.
that's totally understandable, and I hope I wasn't sounding like I was having a go - it's just genuine exasperation on my part.Quote:
Originally Posted by wookie70
i don't think it's totally necessary to put your liberty in jeopardy, though. Again, without wanting to sound like I'm having a go, one positive move would be simply to step back from defeatism, which is sort of part of a self-fulfilling prophecy. If doing so causes angst, then apparently joining some sort of campaign is sort of shown to reduce that sense of anxiety, because you can truly feel that you are doing what you can - if one got the balance right, I'm sure it's possible to do this without it becoming all consuming.
My next car will be all electric (and hopefully smaller) and I’m considering solar panels. I know I could do more but I am trying.
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I'll sign petitions, I'm our Union Environmental Rep and do what I can to make sure our organisation has as little Carbon use as possible, I'll march and certainly tell those who try to deny the undeniable what's what but none of that will make a difference. What I do isn't really fighting, more like shadow boxing imo, and what I really think is the war is lost already. That is defeatist, I know, but I simply can't see how anything will change with people power. Nature will be the force that brings about a change to the world's economy and systems. Remember your initial question is regarding worry. I will not worry because that to me would serve no purpose apart from negatively effecting my mental health. .Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentDaleCooper
Nah mate there's a bunch of Albanians trying to cross the border or something, haven't you heard?
17 degrees in Edinburgh on Friday in mid November.
We looked into a Nissan Leaf when we last changed our car. We were quite stunned by how enviromentally unfriendly it was. A bit of online investigation saw us discover it takes about 70% more carbon to build an electric vehicle than a standard combustion engine and you would have to drive in the region of 140 000 kilometres before it became 'greener' than a petrol car. I'm sure there are variants for different manufacturers but it's going to be in broadly the same ballpark.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I always come back to the same two points when discussing climate change. The first is that there still seems a belief that 'technology' will get us out of this mess but I'm not convinced. Since the early to mid 19th century the industries of the developed world has advanced at a frightening rate, that arguably escalated again in the late mid part of the 20th century. We reached a point where we could exploit the worlds resources at will and it's a Pandora's Box that the lid can't be put back on. Those developed countries don't want to give up their share of the spoils, they don't want to pay to protect the devloping world nor to help them fund green alternatives and countries that missed out 1st time round (think China and India) now want their turn and aren't willing to be painted as pariahs. Technology advanced too quickly when it came to exploitation and the developments needed to slow, stop and then reverse the effects haven't kept pace and aren't going to catch up anytime soon. The second issue is we as consumers have been led to believe a few small changes in our habits will help solve the problem. On a minuscule level they might but ultimately using a reusable cup for your morning coffee will make no discernible difference. That's not to say we shouldn't strive to be less wasteful and more resourceful but given the industry I work in I see so much misinformation and box ticking when it comes to things like 'compostable' packaging and the like.
None of the above means I am trying to shed any personal responsibility. I walk to work, I recycle, I rarely fly, I use public transport a lot etc etc but until there is genuine efforts from the biggest climate offenders to move permanently away from fossil fuels, to protect forestry and peatlands, to rewild and the like then it's pissing in the wind.
In saying all that I was quite intrigued by the story below which I read a couple of weeks ago. Something a bit left field like that might just be the breakthrough we have been waiting for:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-63200589
The whole game is ****ed until the big polluting companies of the world start to really take responsibility for their emissions.
I’m taking lots of steps to be greener, electric car, solar panels, recycling, growing our own etc etc. but on an individual level it’s drop in the ocean stuff.
If governments don’t care about the people that voted for them (or didn’t) good luck convincing them to change their behaviour now for the good of people that don’t exist yet.
I agree about your 2nd issue: the personal habits thing is just to make you feel good and that you're doing something so you'll continue to live essentially as you are. "Hey, I drive an extra 20 miles so I can recycle some cardboard that'll probably end up being shipped off somewhere and burnt, now back to my next easyjet booking."Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
But on the 1st issue I disagree. When push comes to shove, industrially developed countries can move fast. See moves to get away from dependence on Russian gas. The fundamental problem so far is that cost-benefit analysis hasn't got to the stage where naked self interest applies to the rich developed countries in the north. That will change, the tragedy is that developing countries will already be bearing a much fuller brunt than they already are.
On electric cars, you're right that the greenest thing you can do as an individual right now is keep your existing ICE car as long as possible and do less miles if you can. But without early adopters, the electric vehicle market will never get to the point where it is properly green.
I feel like we are living in an alternate universe, where we’re sleepwalking to disaster without really giving two ****s about it. Its not even Armageddon because Armageddon suggests there’s a battle taking place; but in reality there’s no battle, there’s just a sort of weary acceptance.Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentDaleCooper
I’ve just taken delivery of my first leased electric car and I love it, and I cycle to work most days anyway. But I’m under no illusions that Im making a massive difference.
Money talks unfortunately. And money also buys political power.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
Without either there is simply no desire to change. All the words are hollow.
The capitalist system has ****ed us. We have the money and resources a million times over to stop this reverse, put humanity on a sustainable footing.
Now all I can see is some dystopian future, a bit like the dark ages when the people of Europe marvelled at the rotting remains of Roman civilisation and wonder “how did they do what they did and we can’t?”
J
How do we stop China and the US?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/environm...al-revolution/
China pumps out more pollution in eight years than UK since Industrial Revolution
CO2 emissions of 80bn tonnes from 2013 to 2020 is higher than Britain’s 78bn over 220 years
I don’t know the exact figures but I think yours for the leaf will be a mixture of slightly out of date and also not applicable to Scotland?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
Usually those figures are calculated based on the generating mix of the country and in Scotlands case that is heavily in favour of renewables. There has also been big improvements in recycling of the batteries on EV’s. There is also the matter of localised emissions which EV’s save us from which will benefit your neighbours etc.
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A brilliant interactive article on how green your electric vehicle is. Few of the points above raised
https://ig.ft.com/electric-car/
There is little to no point worrying about something that is inevitable, is there? There is no way that all governments will come together and sort the problems out. We are already past the tipping point in terms of renewable resources, we use more than 100% each year so the what we have is less and less. We are totally reliant on oil, there is little to no shift away from it too. We are speeding towards a cliff and Capitalism is pressing harder on the accelerator. The thing that gets me is people think this will be a really slow process, something that might effect their grandkids but we are on the edge right now. All it will take is a couple of things going a different way to what usually happens and our whole food eco-system collapses. When we get to the middle of this century huge swathes of the planet will literally be uninhabitable, if you think migration is a problem now let's see what happens when southern Europe is too hot to live in, those people will not be going south! But let's be honest, if we get to that stage the food eco-system will have collapsed by then anyway.
This is going to end messily, billions are going to die of starvation, those left will have a miserable short existence. Can we stop it? Yeah probably, if we change everything we are doing right now, will we stop it? No, there is no chance on Earth that humans will stop this, we will end up a small and damaging blip on the history of Earth, the only proof of our existence at all will probably be the two Voyager probes we sent out into the cosmos in August and September of 1977. The Earth will recycle our mess back into her crust, we will probably be responsible for the death of most life on the planet but life should prevail in some form or Earth will become another Venus, sweltering in greenhouse gas filled atmosphere until our star expands into a red dwarf star and engulfs this little insignificant ball of rock and iron and recycle it into the cosmos.
But apart from all that, everything is fine :cb
That’s pretty helpful actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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That's a useful summary. Key point being that despite all the downsides (energy intensity of battery manufacture, lithium mining etc), the carbon saving over the lifetime of the car is decent in regions where the grid is relatively green (and getting greener over time):Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Of course EVs aren't a panacea and as mentioned above, ditching an ICE car with plenty of life in it for an EV may cancel out a significant chunk of the carbon savings.Quote:
Despite the significant improvements that need to be made to manufacturing there is evidence that, even today, overall EVs are cleaner than traditional alternatives
A 2021 study by the International Council on Clean Transportation estimates that with today’s power plants providing the energy the emissions from an EV across its whole lifecycle — from manufacturing to miles on the road — are 66-69 per cent below those of petrol cars in Europe
In the US, the emissions from EVs are 60-68 per cent lower, the study shows, while in China the gap is 37-45 per cent. In India, it’s 19–34 per cent
As energy becomes cleaner across the globe, that gap is expected to widen
Exactly. Neighbour of mine recently received a hybrid Range Rover to replace his 3 year old petrol Merc. The Merc was lovely and in great condition. There's a lot of that sort of thing going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by nonshinyfinish
The 'leasing generation' of drivers that have a new car every 2, 3 or 4 years is just crazy IMO, from a cost and environmental point of view.
I guess in theory these cars supply the used market and therefore may mean that someone else buys them instead of a new car, but I've no idea how that shakes out in practice.Quote:
Originally Posted by McSwanky
Yeah, but if everyone keeps their cars for 8 years as opposed to 3 or 4, surely there are less cars manufactured, which is a good thing (not for the car companies obviously)?Quote:
Originally Posted by nonshinyfinish
Tax system is the best way to deliver that.Quote:
Originally Posted by McSwanky
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Its a COP out (pun intended) to just blame China. Per capita they emit less than the UK.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
They also manufacture products for the entire world, we seen during covid how vital Chinese manufacturing was because we don't hold those capabilities anymore.
You then have direct and in-direct. I doubt the hundreds of billions that the City of London based banks invest in oil every year are taking into account when calculating these scores.
The technology thing is just capitalists trying to retain the status quo and push ahead with things as way they are, as if everything is normal and a CO2 extraction machine that doesn't exist yet will fix everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
You can't technology yourself out of an economic system that requires infinite growth on a planet than has finite resources.
The fact there is probably half a dozen climate threads on a fitba forum in the last 6-12 months gives me a small glimmer of hope change is coming.
I agree we do pollute more per head. But the point is what can the rest do if they won't decrease, ours is tiny compared to theirs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antifa Hibs
Disagree about production. If you are saying we have to do this by head of population, uk is a much bigger manufacturer than China per head of pop.
I suppose India will be the next problem as they are going to be the biggest population next year
Recycling a few bottles and a bunch of cardboard will make **** all difference in the grand scheme of things. The only thing that will actually work is voting in representatives who will take the steps neccessary to ensure everything that needs to be done, is actually done. That means all of us voting for green candidates, under the crystal clear knowledge that life for us as we know it changes, and likely not for the better. What would you say the chances of that happening within our lifetime is? And what would you say the chances of absolultely nothing changing until billions of people die because we're too cowardly to do anything about it? If I were a betting man..............
Really like this piece. It challenges the notion that what we call "science" has all the answers.
I'd like to see more of it.
https://www.bigissue.com/news/enviro...dge-seriously/
https://twitter.com/helifliMorten/st...291646465?s=19
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That’s unlikely to happen but we’ll be living behind a very expensive and ugly sea wall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
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I'm alright 😁 ( immediately above the T in Central Scotland)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I’ll be alright on the South Island as well. If the SG ever get these ferries ready, we might be be able to go to the North Island for our holidays.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
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No point worrying about things I can’t control.
I do what I can as a responsible citizen who does care. My effect is about nil.
Listened to a climate activist earlier today though, she was in tears and telling us she ‘didn’t have a future’. Thought it slightly pathetic.
Mankind will not sniff the challenge that has been set for numerous reasons, not least that the target is too big and near and the complexity of modern societies is such that it cannot turn the ship quickly enough.
Not losing any sleep.
Capitalism is incapable of fixing things, we need revolutionary change. It’s a pity we don’t have a Green Party worthy of the name in Scotland but the Just Stop Oil protestors give me hope that there are people out there willing to challenge things head on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antifa Hibs
Why did you think it was pathetic?Quote:
Originally Posted by judas
It might not be as black and white as that with capitalism.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
As the worm turns on consumer habits and society becomes more and more demanding of greener products from environmentally responsible producers then companies will go down that path. Couple that with responsible legislation from government and councils to push things in that direction and for transparency from business then you'd start to build something within the capitalism framework.
The whole thing still has a cloud of mystery behind it. How many of us know the environmental impact of our day to day decisions? Driving to X for a day out, or flying to Y for a holiday - it would take some time to find out what those emissions counted up to, and what the cost of that destruction equates to in real terms. Of course it would also take great sacrifice to not subsequently do those things - another step people are unlikely to willingly take.
£23.40 for a return ticket from Edinburgh to Croy tonight. 40 minutes on the train on one of the main commuter trains in Scotland.
If we want to tempt people out their cars and onto public transport we need to be doing far better than that.
I'll add that the carriage I'm in has 2 other people in it, peak time service and it's dead and no wonder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
Probably not what you need/want to hear but that journey can be done for around £18.30 by using "split" tickets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
It's perfectly legit, return from Waverley to Edinburgh Park, a 2nd from Edinburgh Park to Croy.
A lot of folk can't get their head around it but train tickets are not based on miles but an algorithm of route congestion/popularity amongst other things. There are plenty websites out there that do the hard work for you.
It's easy enough to do in Scotrails own app and just use the e-tickets. The other thing is, you don't even need to change trains. You can get the Queen St service from Edinburgh and stay on it right through to Croy as long as it does stop at the split station. Not all Queen St service stop at Edinburgh Park but some do. Easy enough to change their though and it'll only add a minute or two to your overall journey.
Another top tip, for anyone wanting to train it down to London, consider getting a through ticket to Dublin (I know). In many cases, it's cheaper to get a ticket to Dublin via London (permitted route) than just to London itself,,,, something to do with route subsidies.
that may be more to do with the time on a Friday, a lot of folk either work from home or leave early for the weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63998198
Good to see the Scottish Govt taking my ramblings on here seriously:wink:
Yours is a very fair point though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
You're not going to encourage folk to travel by public transport if you make it prohibitively expensive.
It'll be interesting to see whether or not this will change anyone's habits (ie price wasn't all that much of a barrier in the first place or folk simply prefer to travel by car). I hope it does.
Does anyone on here have much experience of travelling on peak time trains? I've not done it much, and when I have done it was pre-pandemic so things may have changed regardless.
I would have thought those services were pretty much at capacity already. So the change in price won't end up with more people travelling via public transport, they'll just get to do so for less (no bad thing) but end up with requiring cuts to be made to less popular, and therefore profitable, routes to balance the books (or just take the hit - a benefit of public ownership?). :dunno:
Maybe there's some wiggle room with what counts as "at capacity" with trains where people can be crammed in more uncomfortably right enough.
Train numbers are massively down due to people working from home more regularly, so wiggle room.Quote:
Originally Posted by danhibees1875
Figured they would be down generally, just wasn't sure if that applied to peak times or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
That would mean Carbon use would go up presumably. Same amount of trains but more fuel being burnt at home. There is a desperate need to have a look at how society and the world works. The vast majority of jobs have no real value and are only there to drive on Capitalism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
This is what I've thought for quite a while. My biggest regret will always be not persevering with trying to get a trade when I left school and taking my first 'No' as permanent and slipping into the comfy slippers office life. I see family members (joiners) with a trade and think "that's such a good skill to have". Imagine having the know-how to build a house? Society wouldn't exist without these skills and knowledge. I really wish it was the norm that we all aspired to such things and there was an easy pathway to learn this kind of thing. Mind you, my experience of all this was around 25 years agoo now so maybe it is easier to pursue it now? We need to stop chasing the pound note and value other things in life with more importance.Quote:
Originally Posted by wookie70
Same here. I'm pretty handy at DIY and when I am building something the day goes flying by as it feels useful and creative. I wish I had been a mechanic, spark or similar. I don't think I have ever felt I have done anything worthwhile in 37 years in an office. A complete waste of everyone's time like the vast majority of office jobs and many other occupations. I can't find the post now but another poster was talking about simplifying their life and it made a lot of sense to me. I may try and make a few steps towards that after the new year.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Exile
These posts resonate with me. I’d add the amount of fakeness and people with undeserved authority really gets you questioning the corporate world.Quote:
Originally Posted by wookie70
But also the hypocrite that I am knows it’s easier to observe and moan about these things than take the plunge, half your earnings/security and try something else.
Biggest regret of my life not learning a trade, failed sparks test at 17 and me old man talked me out of anything else as he’s in trades, spent near 20yrs in finance now in a call centre working from home, days are just spent serving absolutely no sense of personal achievement, I’ve often thought of learning something a night school tiling/plastering etc getting my own wee thing going but with mouths to feed and 40 now I feel the boats been missed I’ll be pointing my boys in the trades direction thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by The_Exile
I'm 54 so retirement is my escape at 60. In keeping with the thread I would love to see if I could build a house and make it as carbon neutral as possible. If I had an old gas meter I'm sure I can use the numbers spinning as a turbine the way the heating is at teh moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmas
Entirely with you on that one. I’ve worked in professional kitchens, in shops and pubs, worked as a farm hand then manager and now work in agri sales. Whilst I like the job and the career prospects are very good a mate of mine who helped me in my unofficial chefs training changed careers and is now a joiner. He’s loving it and it also is paying a very solid wage. While in ten years time I’d like to think I’ll be making double the money I am now, I don’t know if it will have the same sense of satisfaction as building houses for a living.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmas
One thing that I hear about with a lot of tradesmen - more than happy to be corrected on this - is that by the time they’re older a lot of them are knackered. Physically I mean, knees and back problems and the like which an office job will at least spare you from!
China in unfamiliar‘global good guys’ role.
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ss-by-2030-aoe
Cars generally have a lifespan of 30 - 40 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by McSwanky
All Europe's ex-hire cars, or older second hand ones, make their way to Africa or India or such like eventually.
Check how many old Mercs or BMWs are used as taxi's abroad to get an idea of the scale of it.
...and how many e.g. Renaults or Fiats do you see still operating after 30 - 40 years? Genuine question.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
Also, where do the electric cars go? Do Africa and India have good charging networks for electric taxis too?
It's a numbers game for me:
If 100 people buy a new car every year, that's 100 more cars on the road every year.
If 100 people buy a new car every 2 years, that's 50 more cars on the road every year.
If 100 people buy a new car every 5 years, that's 20 more cars on the road every year.
If 100 people buy a new car every 10 years, that's 10 more cars on the road every year.
The number of cars removed from circulation (national or worldwide, it doesn't really matter) either doesn't change - in which case, there are more cars on the road - or it decreases in line with the number of new ones - in which case we are scrapping younger cars needlessly.
I'd love a new car every 3 years, really I would, but I keep my cars for a good bit longer than that (last 2 cars I've had I've kept from nearly new for at least 10 years). And on the whole, they do me absolutely fine.
My general point is that it doesn't matter if you change cars every 3 or 10 years.
The same car will be around for the same amount of time, just with a different number of owners.
I recently sold mine. I now get the bus to work, which in Glasgow means fully electric. I'm doing my bit!!
Sorry, but I totally disagree!Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
Extreme examples to illustrate:
If everyone in the world changed their car every year, then we'd be scrapping 1 year old cars, and producing another 100% new cars every year.
If everyone in the world held onto their car for 10 years, then we'd be scrapping 10 year old cars, and producing another 10% of new cars every year.
So if the people at the new end of the market get rid of their cars every 3 years on average as opposed to say 10, that has to either result in:
1. an accumulation of more cars in the world, or
2. an earlier scrapping of cars that could have a longer life.
Am I wrong?
I work with figures but can't get my head around it, so will happily concede the basic point that less cars is better than more :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by McSwanky
More than happy to agree with that and leave it there! :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
Remember that there will always need to be more cars on the road as the population increases and more people want a car. If public transport was free (something which is a no brainer in my book) then you could make an argument for less cars (I would personally get rid of mine if public transport was free or very very heavily subsidised so to save me a load of cash). As it stands, a bus pass would cost me 60 quid a month, it costs me around £80 a month to run my car all in (that's fuel, insurance, road tax and including money I put away for servicing, MOT etc). Is it worth it to spend a fiver less a week and have to put up with journeys that take 2 or 3 times as long and sit on buses with the great unwashed? I took the bus to and from work for 20 years and it was utter misery, like, proper "I can't do this anymore" kind of stuff which forced me to learn to drive and get a car. A lot of folk wouldn't voluntarily go back to that even if it was free. As for electric cars, they are completely out of reach for working people and the bastion of the middle and upper classes who can say "Well you can't criticise me, I'm doing my bit".Quote:
Originally Posted by McSwanky
I'm a year away from getting an honours degree in Environmental Science so I know a lot of what I'm saying goes against my own deeply held principles and is likely overly cynical, but sometimes you have to look at the overall picture and be realistic to the evidence around you pointing to one thing. Until public transport is better, free and less stressful then I don't think the number of cars on the road will reduce.
Example: Go onto google, plot a journey from Musselburgh Racecourse to Ocean Terminal by public transport, see how long that would take, how many buses would you need to rely on turning up and being on time? Then plot the same journey in a car. There will be routes like this from Stranraer to John O'Groats and everywhere in between, they are like public transport black holes, vast swathes of cities and countryside which you can't traverse with ease unless you have a car, and with more and more people having to move outside of cities to afford a roof over their heads it'll mean these people will need a car to get around easily.
Ultimately, I can only see the number of cars on the road going in one direction, and it certainly ain't down.
All true, but still better if people don't replace their cars every time the wind changes [emoji16]Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Exile
Around 130 bus operators in England are capping their single fares at £2 for Jan/Feb,Mar. The funding of £60m to carry this out is coming from the Government's Help for Households Initiative. They feel this will take 2m car journeys off the roads at this time.
I think their needs to be some hard thinking about public transport generally in these times. It seems clear that travellers have not returned to using it as before the pandemic, for some obvious and some less apparent reasons. I was shocked recently to head to the city on a formerly busy service. one which may have required standing all the way. There were about four people on these double-decker buses.
I can envisage more and more services being cut due to lack of use, as well as scarcity of drivers etc.
Work from home will be a big part of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by stu in nottingham
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Not sure the frequency people change their cars will make any kind of difference to the amount of cars on the road though is the overall point I guess. All it would do would create a shortage of cheaper used cars for new drivers, which would ultimately lead to more new cars being produced anyway. I think fundamental change in multiple aspects (cost is the obvious one) of the way we get around is the only way to begin to answer the car problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by McSwanky
We're lucky that our single fair is already only £1.80. The vast majority have ridacards I read, which makes it cheaper still.Quote:
Originally Posted by stu in nottingham
Busses in rush hour are packed here. I'd assume though working from home has obviously impacted fares, particularly places like Edinburgh park
Clive Sinclair had the right idea at the wrong time. Small, fairly slow 20mph electric transport for 1 person which can keep the worst of teh weather off would be my solution. Combine that with e-bikes with a faster limit, electric scooters and you would get many out of cars. The problem is they seem to think they can drive people to use public transport and even when free many never do.
Yes, that was one of the 'obvious' reasons mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Not quite the same but local authorities here have beeh using a long-term experiement with rental electric scooters. The next step planned is to have rental e-bikes.Quote:
Originally Posted by wookie70
https://www.transportnottingham.com/...7-1-scaled.jpg
Maybe it's different up here, but I thought e-scooters weren't legal?Quote:
Originally Posted by stu in nottingham
It's a reasonable point. I travel the City Bypass at rush hour at least one day a week and most of the cars there (myself included - I acknowledge I'm part of the problem) only have one person in them. We are a two car family mainly because we both have no real public transport alternative to the car. If a cheap, single occupancy, low range, electric vehicle was available, I'd definitely consider it. No danger I'm going to be paying the money the car manufacturers want for an electric or hybrid car though. Something has to change there.Quote:
Originally Posted by wookie70
Rental e-bikes are already available in Musselburgh! https://goebike.uk/
Otherwise, outside of this local authority run scheme, private e-scooters are not legal here either.Quote:
Originally Posted by danhibees1875
There have been a lot of complaints about them from some quarters.
:aok:Quote:
Originally Posted by stu in nottingham
If you're serious about single occupancy EV's, you should catch Top Gear (series 33 episode 2) on iPlayer. I realise there's a lot of mucking about between the presenters and not real life challenges, but they demonstrate 3 cars which could be viable options for many folk that have sub 15 mile commutes and generally travel on their own.Quote:
Originally Posted by McSwanky
Micro cars used;
https://www.citytransformer.com/
https://www.citroen.co.uk/ami
https://www.carverelectric.co.uk/
I def think there should be much higher taxes on large vehicles. Would solve more than a few problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales
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I agree that personal acts that impact climate/environment should be properly costed. From short haul flights when high speed rail is available, right down to personal motoring (which is arguably subsidised).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Things are a ****ing plague over here. There's thousands of the things just lying about all over the place and people just leave then lying on the floor like a dug would do with its own ****. They're on the pavements, roads and even the rivers and canals. They're also just bloody dangerous and although they should be driven on the road, most of the people using them do so on the pavement. I've also seen a few tourists getting airborne after hitting small potholes or bumps, the small wheel radius makes them sensitive to uneven surfaces and they suffer from wheel wobble after hitting them.Quote:
Originally Posted by danhibees1875
Similar story here I'm afraid, they tend to be misused in much the same ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
I've a friend who is blind and who tripped over one of scooters which had been left lying on the ground in a non-designated place. He sued the company successfully.
Apart from that, a problem seems to be that there really isn't a suitable place for them to be driven. They're supposed to be on the roads but don't look particularly safe in heavy traffic. On the pavement - which many are - they can be a menace as they are very quiet and often not observed coming in your direction.
These huge electric bikes used by food delivery drivers are all over the pavements in Glasgow city centre.
Never worry about traffic lights or pedestrian areas like Buchanan St and when they're not being used, there's a bunch of them parked up blocking the pavement.
They should be licensed and treated like motor bikes. Way ore dangerous than a 50cc.
They have them in Sunderland too. Quite reasonable and a great way to bomb along the esplanadeQuote:
Originally Posted by stu in nottingham
I remember that episode and something similar to the trike would be perfect imo for many commuters, but not even close to being affordable. I'm talking about far simpler solutions and for the most part they could probably be along the lines of e-scooters.Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales
A move to smaller commuting vehicles will never happen without the authorities building infrastructure, allowing free parking etc and also hammering cars while making sure public transport accessible to everyone. None of the climate change issues will be solved by individual choice. It needs Governments to basically stop people making the wrong choices by not allowing them in the first place.
An interesting development.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/01/new-york-governor-legalizes-human-composting-after-death?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Is it different to this?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
https://www.binningwood.co.uk/about/...-green-burial/
Heatwave in Europe is crazy.
https://mobile.twitter.com/US_Stormw...29457292066818
Shorts and t-shirt in the garden yesterday, I've never experienced anything like this in January. Having to mow the lawn because the grass hasn't stopped growing, mental.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
https://theorkneynews.scot/2023/01/0...ful-important/
A very interesting read. Tiny pockets of greenery in NYC captured carbon more than emissions.
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcas...=1000594106196
Great podcast on what the Danes are doing with offshore wind. Scotland seems to be a bit behind on this.
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Mind when rock pools used to be full of life? Fish, anemones, crabs, wee prawns and that? Where can I go to see that?
I remember it disappearing in the Forth mid 80s. It should have been a warning.
You’ll like this project then, which I’m involved with in a minor way. Links in nicely to the recent Freeports announcement and is good news for Granton in a wider sense. You too will be in rock pooling before youQuote:
Originally Posted by Glory Lurker
know it :greengrin
https://www.theecologycentre.org/seagrass
There's a pretty cool project taking place around Scotland where researchers are deploying oysters into coastal waters as a form of absorbing carbon too. I know that's linked to a seagrass project at the same time, so sorry if it's yours and I'm teaching granny to suck eggs! :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by hibsbollah
:agree: The sea grass and the oysters are part of the same project S. Oysters were historically the poor man’s protein so when North Edinburgh industrialised and the population exploded you would see hundreds of folk out collecting the oysters, the Forth was one of the richest beds in the world, you could walk half way across on their backs! That wouldn’t last long of course and pollution didn’t help. The project involves sowing the sea grass from seeds collected in Orkney. All very cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylar
Mon the oysters and sea grass.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-64640215
Quote:
All major road building projects in Wales have been scrapped over environmental concerns.
Why is this not being covered by MM ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGN81SEmoPU
They have discovered contaminated water in a town 40 miles away from this. It is scary how powerful corporates are in America, they lobby government to get rid of safety laws and employment rights of workers to the extent that US workers are the worst treated in the first world. The train carrying these chemicals has brakes from the 1860s, yep the 1860s, Civil War brakes on a train carrying highly toxic chemicals. We just need to wait for the disaster that will include radioactive waste and there will be parts of America people won't be able to go. Trains are mainly used for goods transportation in the US and that system almost exclusively goes through poor areas so there will be nothing done until if effects rich Americans. The train company involved in this disaster is Norfolk Southern, they made $3billion in profit last year whilst degrading workers rights further, sacking a load of employees (there was just three people on the train that derailed, a train with 141 cars 50 of which derailed). They offer the town East Palestine $25k in compensation, thats $5 per resident. The ecological damage from this disaster is unknown but very significant, it will take decades to clean up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betty Boop
This has had so little coverage on mainstream media in the US some people don't even know it has happened, the Biden administration are still keeping schtum about it too smfh.
For anyone who enjoyed Paul Whitehouse in Gone Fishing, there’s a couple of programmes starting on Sunday on bbc2 where he investigates how bad the pollution in Englands rivers is, and by all accounts it’s a shocking watch.
https://www.bbc.com/mediacentre/prog...roubled-rivers
It’s brilliant that someone has done this.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibsbollah
Good on him.
I met Lyle last week from the Ecology Centre. Very nice guy and extremely passionate about the Seagrass project. The benefits are quite incredible, from providing habitat for fish to hide and increasing bird populations who would rather enjoy said fish, to carbon sequestration and even stabilising banks from erosion and crashing waves. If anyone's keen to get involved the link in the quote above as well as https://www.wwf.org.uk/scotland/restoration-forth will have info soon on volunteer days etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibsbollah
Anyway today is international sea-grass day - so happy sea-grass day everyone :greengrin
I think I posted this link before but may be of interest to some if they haven't seen it. Seems to be borne from the same thought process as the seagrass project(s) mentioned above:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-63200589
It’s bonkers, an underwater mini rainforest sustaining life as well solving some of the biodiversity and climate damage concerns simultaneously. I can’t get my head around the actual horticultural introduction progress (I’m assuming they grow the seedlings into fair sized juvenile plants before planting into some sort of contained structure in the sea bed to stop them washing away in the tides?) the presentation I attended told us the seeds were being harvested from a population in Orkney.Quote:
Originally Posted by green&left