Whoever that hack is on sportscene he is a chunt and also said that commercial aspects should out weigh integrity, i dispare
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Whoever that hack is on sportscene he is a chunt and also said that commercial aspects should out weigh integrity, i dispare
I don't doubt for one second that he will stand firm.
Unfortunately, as Jonston has demonstrated already today, there will be plenty of others that will bend over and let themselves be rogered by NewHunCo for the sake of a few quid twice a season.
What the daftie won't have factored in is that they'll have another sixteen or seventeen home games to play that they'll lose even more income from if away fans decided to boycott Killie in protest to his stance.
That's that then. As soon as 'the Ten' split (assuming that they don't all feel the same way), the SPL and SFA have a mandate to let Rangers off with a light tap on the hand.
Clubs like Killie should be trying to attract more of their own fans instead of relying on the Bigots to make up the shortfall.
i'm quite sure that sir rod will have the same opinion as the killie chairman....every SPL chairman will be the same, i(and others) have thought all along that the buns will be in the SPL next season and will finish either 1st...or 2nd.....no change, our only hope of any serious damage to them will be the law/hector, the SPL have no f****n morals/integrity whatsoever, not where money is concerned, cash IS king END OF
'kin sickening
.
........... and I hope that in due course, Petrie will tell us how he/Hibs voted. Further to the Killie chairman giving a vote of confidence, his manager, ten minutes ago, said in an interview, "Let's stop all this talk about Rangers being in the 3rd division. We all know they will definitely be in the SPL next season.". It wasn't said in a way that implied he was unhappy about it.
Rules for some teams, no rules for others, they are going to kill the game up here. :rolleyes:
One of my mates at work's Killie fan. He's just said
"that's no more home games then, if your lot vote against them then at least I can watch Killie there"
He went on to say he'll be a travelling supporter but only to the teams that also voted against.....
Do these directors/pundits etc not realise?
We don't bl**dy care if our team needs to recut its cloth financially, sporting integrity is most important.... I'm getting so hacked off at listening to the radio and hearing pundits going on about how other teams will lose out as if they're on our bloody side and it's just we're too stupid to realise!!!!!!
The thing I would like to see is this, Monday's game looks like it will have the largest hibs support of the season, how difficult would it be to have a member of staff at each turnstile asking the fans, "do you think rangers should be allowed back into SPL" a simple yes or no answer is all that's required, then collate the answers and Petrie votes with the majority view!
I'd say in this case it's more do the Chairman believe that the fans will walk away in disgust and never come back, or do they think they'll be angry but ultimately keep turning up.
I doubt there are any Chairman among the 11 other clubs who reckon their fans will be happy about it.
I think Monday could be the most important day for Scottish football ever. If the other eleven clubs vote to transfer rangers old membership to a new club without making it work it's way through the leagues like Ross county have done then any pretence at sporting integrity is gone. I can't see why anyone would bother to support any other team in the league knowing that your team are just there to make up the numbers in an old firm league.
My boy has just started playing for Spartans so I may just start taking him down to watch their senior team. Maybe the odd trip to an EPL game.
The level of cheating by Rangers over a ten year period is worthy of complete expulsion from the SFA, yet the clubs are willing to allow them to carry on without punishment. It really is shameful.
What will Hibs do? So far the silence is deafening. I personally believe that we will vote for admitting the new club directly into the SPL and if that's the case then we really will be a nothing club and withdrawing my support and that of my two sons will be an easy decision.
I'm afraid to say that Hampden may be my last game. It would at least be nice to go out on a high. GGTTH
Can't believe Doncaster was blogging this in March when Hearts didn't pay wages. What a hypocrite!!!!!!!!!
CEO Blog
http://www.hibs.net/images/registerrop.gifFinancial Fair Play
Football and finance have often sat uneasily together. But with some of our clubs under intense financial pressure, it is no surprise that questions about ‘financial fair play’ have once again been raised in the context of Scottish football.
Crucial to an understanding of financial fair play, is an appreciation of why it is vital that clubs live within their means. This blog is an attempt to set out what is meant by ‘financial fair play’, and why prompt payment of players, the taxman and other member clubs is so important to football as a whole.
‘Financial fair play’ is a phrase that is often trotted out in football circles. It was one of 11 key values presented by UEFA President Michel Platini to the 2009 UEFA Congress. Its stated aim was to “restore well-being to the European club game”.
But what does ‘financial fair play’ really mean? UEFA’s explanation, in 2010, was that the concept would require clubs to balance their books over the medium term, not spend more than they earn, and operate within their financial means.
This is all seen as important for one key reason: because any club that is spending more on players than they can afford, is automatically gaining a sporting advantage over every other club it competes with. Whether the precise system of measurement used by UEFA is perfect is a moot point. But the logic behind the principle however is, I think, broadly sound. And it is this same principle that explains the position of the SPL.
To turn a blind eye, to allow clubs to continually fail to make prompt payments as they fall due, would be to allow those clubs to gain an unfair sporting advantage over all those other clubs that pay their players, the taxman and other clubs on time. That is one of the reasons why, whenever the SPL receives a request from players to adjudicate on their contracts, it has a duty to do so.
The fundamental basis of any football league is that all member clubs are treated equally. But, increasingly, leagues across the world are going further. In England, for example, the Football League routinely imposes a player embargo on clubs who fail to pay their players in full and on time. And, in League Two, clubs have accepted limits on the amounts that they can spend, relative to their income.
The whole issue of ‘financial fair play’ will no doubt continue to be developed across the whole of football. In the meantime, it is vital that the Scottish Premier League continue to treat all member clubs even-handedly.
It may put the SPL in the uncomfortable position of having to rule against member clubs in certain instances. Whenever we are requested by professional players to adjudicate on their contracts, for example, we should continue to do so. And, where appropriate, to rule in the players’ favour and to make orders for on-time payment by our member clubs.
The integrity of the entire League – and the long-term interests of all 12 member clubs within it – demands that we do just that.
More widely though, it is important that we keep the whole issue of financial fair play firmly in the spotlight. Improving our rule book and making it less likely that our member clubs end up in financial difficulty in the first place should continue to be a priority. And with this in mind, all 12 SPL member clubs will meet this Monday. On the agenda will be our existing rules on financial fair play and whether our current rule book needs improvement in the face of the financial challenges being faced by several member clubs.
If agreement in principle is reached, this could mean our clubs voting on new, tougher, rules on financial fair play at a general meeting, either in April or July this year. It will be a difficult debate. But it is vital that we do not shy away from these issues or bury our heads in the sand.
It may be uncomfortable to address these thorny problems head-on. But the long-term health and prosperity of Scottish football demands that we do just that.
Neil Doncaster
Chief Executive, Scottish Premier League
I can categorically state that after thirty five years of attending Scottish football matches and being treated like sh*t for the vast majority of that tim if the Huns are re-admitted into the SPL hopefully watching Hibernian winning the Scottish Cup will be the last time I spend any money on the SPL's sub-standard and rigged product.
I feel the same. I emailed Hibs saying that I wouldn't be back if I thought Hibs were complicit in letting RFC back in. Got the standard reply saying that I'd be hurting Hibs not RFC - don't think they understand the feelings of the Hibs fans. Still haven't renewed even though I needed more tickets for cup final. Looks more and more likely that I won't be back. Shame.
@michaelmcp: Great call on SSB. Caller had panel gazumped when asked them to name one relegated SPL side who went bust, afterall no OF revenue or tv cash
If this farce pans out as most seem to think it will, can I suggest that as well as voting with their feet as far as SPL matches are concerned, the fans extend it also to a boycott of international matches involving the Scottish team.
Same here :agree: In the 30+ years I've been supporting Hibs and attending games things have always been stacked in favour of the OF and particularly so since the inception of the SPL but this is something else. If they get away with this and start as a newco in the SPL next season, that will be the end of the road for me and Scottish fitba. I have no intention of puting another penny into some so blatantly corrupt and morally bankrupt.
I think this is the problem. The club have totally failed to grasp the depth of feeling amongst the fans. Statements about fans not going back 'hurt Hibs more than Rangers' totally miss the point. It is now that we are trying to send a message to the club. This decision will be made on Monday. It will not be reversible. The fans who decide not to return will be gone forever. Most will be of the opinion that it does not matter how Hibs are hurt because Hibs will have committed sporting suicide anyway.
Hibs will have become like the guy who fights Big Daddy (showing my age) at the wrestling. Allowed to win a couple of rounds but Big Daddy always wins in the end.
Not something I'll be interested in.
I just think that most chairmen these days looks at immediate ways to maximise income or at least retain what they have. I think if we punished rangers now it could be the start of a more competative league and better run league, however, there would be a shortfall in cash for the first season or two if the TV deal gets revised and no income from rangers support. What would probably happen would be an increase of support through the turnstyles but it wouldnt be instant.
Most Chairmen wont want to deal with a shortfall in income whilst waiting for more fans coming through the gates and therefore will be happy to have Rangers and the TV deal and having a better understanding of their income. IMO, they are wanting 11 chairmen there so that they cant hide behind 'it was a majority of the SPL that wanted rangers Newco voted straight back in'.
:thumbsup:
You can add my name to that list!!
As an ex player , albeit a long time ago, I was quite proud that I had, although for only a couple of years, played at a decent level and contributed to the pleasure supporters got from following their team etc.. No massive wages / transfer fees , no prima donnas just guys giving it their best shot for a decent wage .
SPL Chairmen are now close to signing a " cheats charter" plus there is no integrity or moral fibre being shown by them .
Scottish Football RIP
I will watch rugby , amateur football on the Links /Inverleith Park but not a penny to SPL teams
:confused:
I have also emailed Hibs and to be honest the replies I have had seem perfectly clear that they understood my point of view and when I add that to Rod Petrie's statements on that farcical debate I am convinced Hibs will be doing the right thing. Yes, I got the 'only be hurting Hibs by not renewing' part of the answer as well but thats still true, whether Rangers are there or not.
Think about it another way, Rod Petrie is a money man - We've all done the fag packet calculations on here and realised that actually, Rangers and the smelly hordes they bring dont actually make us that much money. RP isnt an idiot, whatever some of us think on here, 50 -60 grand isnt worth what's being sold and I am convinced he knows that too. More than most RP knows about cutting the coat according to the cloth and reckon we (Hibs) are probably one of the teams in the best shape to be able to do that. In fact we've spent the last 20 odd years getting to the position where we are now, the ideal position to put the boot right into these ****ers.
On another track, loving Alex Thomson's work, he looked/ sounded genuinely appalled at what was unravelling at Ibrox. Good on him, bout time we got some real journalism.
Edit: I would expect Hibs not to be giving much away at this point anyway to be honest, cards close to chest and all that.
"Member clubs are mindful of a sporting integrity aspect but the commercial benefits outweigh that."
cant believe that statement, can the clubs not see that the only clubs that will suffer are them as it wont affect the OF.
SPL will be laughing stock of world football
this might sound like mince, and probably something that couldn't happen too quickly. But, if the huns got emptied and the league got increased, would the extra home games have any compensation on the cash that might be lost from the loss of tv monies?
Just a thought really.
Expansion of the League would not bring any more home games. Maybe there would be fewer matches.
A 14-team League playing each other twice before a split paying each other another two times would give 13+6 = 19 home matches (the same as at present).
A 16-team League playing each other twice would give 15 home matches.
An 18-team League playing home and away would give 17 home matches.
A 20-team League playing home and away would give 19 home matches.
If the 16-team or the 18-team option were selected there would have to be either League Cup groups and/or end of season play-offs.
Rangerstaxcase.com worth a look regarding Bill Miller.
http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/
I am fed up with these constant attacks on Neil Doncaster. To me, he is clearly a man of integrity. Just like our beloved First Minister, he is always fighting for jobs. Just like our beloved First Minister, his own.
Rangers(and Celtic) would walk out on the SPL at the drop of a hat given the opportunity.
It is obvious that the SPL now only exists to give the OF a platform to perform on until they find someone else prepared to take them.
I am now totally fed up and embarrassed with Scottish football and this will be the last straw for me.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...gers-1-2278177
Heed John Yorkston and the vast majority of Hibs supporters Petrie.
RE that Doncaster statement relating to Hearts. I doubt he'd bat an eyelid when pointed out, he's basically following the McCoist line of 'Rangers are different.'
Hearts can't break the rules, Hibs can't, St Johnstone can't, but Rangers can. That's his position. Trying to suggest that to him is only going to get a 'yes, and your point is?' out of the spineless moron.
Scottish football is corrupt if a newco Rangers are in the SPL next season
Who wants to watch a corrupt sport?
I only go to 3 or 4 games a season due to distance but I won't go back either
Every club that allows Rangers back in becomes part of the corruption
IMHO this is has now got the stage where there can be no good outcome from all of this. RFC are in the process of KILLING the game in Scotland because they are not prepared to accept proper punishment or to play by the rules. It is so typical of that club.
A formal split and resignations from the SPL must now be a serious possibility. If I was a CEO of a club that had run its affairs in a proper fashion but knew that some opponents could cheat their way to success (without proper punishment), I would not want to be part of that league. We talk about principles, cutting our nose to spite our face etc etc, but this is easily the most serious issue to affect Scottish Football in my lifetime.
Normally, club chairmen do whatever they want - usually driven by financial self-interest. But Petrie and every other one of the 10 need to understand that this is DIFFERENT. If they fail in their duty to "do the right thing" then it will be the fans who will be their moral compass when they walk away from the game altogether. If Hibs fail to keep NewCo out of the SPL and do not resign in protest, then I will expect and demand a refund on my Season Ticket, and will never set foot in Easter Road again. It will not be the club I grew up with, It will not be the club I have loved.
I would much sooner pay to watch Hibs play in a clean SFL where sporting integrity lives, than in a morally corrupt SPL dominated by cheats.
Do we know exactly what is on agenda for Mondays meeting? Is it the postponed vote re sanctions or wider?
Also do we know if a 8 v 4 majority works to approve any proposals? I would guess Sheep, us, yams, pars, united and Celtic are up for booting huns in the nuts. Any other definates?
only needs five for the financial penalties to be agreed...the higher number for other rule changes....
The big issue is whether Old Gers still exist to punish....or has that horse bolted to be NewCo before changes are effected and therefore not punishable....
You can be sure after the dust settles and new rules in place...that the next rule breaker (Hearts ?) will get the book thrown at them
Steven Thompson of Dundee utd has also been talking of commercial considerations recently and we are still not sure which way Hibs will vote.
I think that the only way that they will not vote for a new club to be admitted to the SPL is for those against to threaten to resign.
See if they all back down, then we will never hear the end of it from Chic young and Traynor about how reliant the other clubs are on RFC. And if Hibs do vote against it but the majority go the other way I hope, no DEMAND that Hibs break ranks and tell everyone our position and how disgusted we are. That way Petrie can protect some of the attendances next year (eg don't penalise us as we were against it) AND come out with some credit on an issue which makes most of us raging with anger.
Whether hibs vote against it or not it'll make nae difference tae me, if Scottish fitba votes for it then I'm out, it's that simple for me. Does anybody think we'd be having all this talk of rule changes or other bull **** if it wisnae one of the OF going down the pan? Would we ****! I winnae continue tae put money in tae some as totally corrupt. What is the point of a competition in which certain teams can so blatantly cheat and get away with it? If that is the road that those running Scottish fitba choose tae go down, they'll be going down it without me and many others.
Scottish fitba run by shysters, cheats, OF stooges, bottle merchants and cowards will never see another penny from me.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footbal...6908-23849612/
has this been posted yet, if not then those of a nervous disposition better not read it
I didnt see a reply to my question last week, i may have missed it. Will the identity of which teams voted yes and no in tomorrows vote will be made public?
Am I being over dramatic or could this meeting tomorrow signal the death throes for Scottish league football as we know it?
That should make the decision much easier then. There was previously the option of a compromise 'yes' vote so long as there were penalties attached. Now that that has apparently gone (according to the Record at least) there can only be a right and wrong decision. If the comments from the weak and greedy Michael Johnston are anything to go by, my money's on the latter.
As a side issue, Hibs attract bigger crowds than Dunfermline and are probably a bigger commercial attraction. I wonder if Mr Johnston would agree to the SPL awarding us a point tomorrow for commercial benefits rather than bothering with a game of football.
Club chairmen have a stark choice to make.
Lose the money from rangers being in the league and all the commercial stuff that goes with it, or
rangers stay in the SPL. All clubs with the exception of them and possibly celtc lose up to half their supporters.
In scenario 1 sporting integrity is maintained and possibly with increased and fair competition crowds slowly increase. Clubs playing within the rules triumph over evil.
In scenario 2 the medium term outlook is bleak. It could lead to the demise of professional club football in Scotland with any clubs remaining joining the English leagues.
In the long term the OF get what they've been after all along, playing down south.
Anyone into conspiracy theories might think to two of them had planned this whole thing from the very beginning.
Who's to say there will be a vote tomorrow? They ajourned the last meeting saying they would reconvene but not necessarily vote. Rangers ally, Michael Johnstone, in his pro Rangers utterence said that they should delay hasty votes until they have more information ........ What he really means is. ........ Let's give Rangers time to get their newco foot in the door before any new sanctions can be applied.
I like it ! And that's the problem with Johnston and his like - where the hell do you stop ?
On a serious note, if it was the Huns or Tic playing DAFC tomorrow for their SPL lives, what the SPL is saying is that they would not allow the Huns or Tic to lose. Or if NewHuns do go
straight into the SPL and have to play 18 year olds, they are immune from relegation.
The biggest problem Rangers have got in this whole sorry mess is that they can't rely on a load of dodgy ref decisions to sort out their finances and law-breaking which is the biggest irony of all.
I'm getting a bit weary of the doom mongers and 'I'll never go back again' brigade. Sporting integrity is just as important to me but I am not going to punish my club for the misdemeanours of others.
What some people seem to forget is that the main charges against Rangers have still to be proven or confirmed. The inquiry into dual contracts is still under way and the Tribunal has still to deliver its verdict on the appeal under the BTC. Until Rangers have been found guilty of breaking SFA rules and cheating the tax man for 10 years, then I think the SPL Chairmen should keep their powder dry.
As things stand, a newco Rangers are already facing hefty penalties :
1) The 12 months transfer embargo
2) A 3 year ban from Europe
3) A 2 year penalty deduction.
Plus all the litigation over the various points at issue. ( I can't be bothered listing them ).
If these stick then it well it will take them a long time to recover.
If the dual contract inquiry finds against them, then the SFA will have to act and impose a far more stringent punishment than the transfer embargo. Suspension of their licence surely has to be a real possibility.
This story has a long way to go and we should be sticking by our club at this time and showing some faith in our Chairman.
If there is a vote tomorrow, I think the details will be kept secret. Johnstone and Yorkston are the only ones who have shown their hands so far. The others will want things kept quiet but there will almost certainly be a leak and then the 'revenge' party begins.
@Paulmcc12: Rangers and the Incubator – Part 2 – Who Could Stop the Deal?
http://t.co/zbkMDeJF
If you were a SPL bigwig who had just voted to force huns into the third division, the last thing youd want is your identity publicised so the buckfast and lidl loyal could send you bullets in the post and haraass your kids at school.
I'm not sure about that The SFA does not talk in terms of companies but instead talks about clubs. The huns are claiming that a transfer to newco allows the club to continue i.e. it does not need to re-apply to join the SFA etc. Given that (1) was imposed on the club by the SFA then the punishment might well stay in place on transfer.
There is no 2 year penalty deduction yet agreed.
I think their argument appears to be that the assets will be moved to NewCo while the 'history' remains in OldCo until it comes out of administration (aye right). In that case, they could argue that OldCo still exists and therefore should carry the punishment. You can bet that's what they'll try and get everyone to swallow anyway.
Shall we place bets on the sanctions remaining in place against a NewCo or reduced/removed on appeal for the OldCo?
I think we can guess which way it will go unfortunately.
I agree that, if Rangers walk away with out any penalty at all, then it is scandalous and a good reason to try to organise some form of protest by all non-Old Firm fans. Although I really do think that UEFA would step in at that stage.
In the meantime, stay calm but write lots of letters toRod, Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan. Moaning on here will do nothing. Walking away will achieve nothing either other than hurting the Club you love and making it even easier for the Ugly Sisters to dominate.
Utd's Stephen Thomson on Rangers.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17975013
Who says three years? :D :D :D
Aye it could be three years but they might end up like FC United of Manchester, formed by rebel fans after Glazer bought them out, doing not badly but basically stuck forever in the 6th level of the English competition. Not quite a direct comparison I know but how many of the blue monkey brigade will stop following the team (or using it as an excuse for being sectarian thugs) and if the support base falls away so will the money and so will the level of player etc. etc. downwards ever downwards...... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . <gone>
Ach dreamin as usual :D
Personally, for various reasons, I'd fall into the "never go back brigade"
What could possibly be an idea is for all the estranged fans of all the SPL clubs to somehow get together and "support" another team. A fairly central, unoffensive team such as Stirling Albion. What a hoot that would be if they started getting 15k+ fans attending their games! Apart from not everyone being able to get in it would be making some statement!
I think you're right. On Sportsound this afternoon, Chick Young saying that all the Chairmen know what the right thing to do is, but they are swayed by the commercial benefits. What sort of message does this send to the youth of Scotland today? Surely if you know what the "right thing to do" is, you do it? There's no debate.
Hope that our chairman decides for integrity and Rangers end up having to field this team-
Naismith, Naifuture, Naiclass, Naimoney, Naistadium, Naihope, Naitrophies, Naiprospects, Naifans, Naimanager, Naiplayers.
The Glasgow media should be bowing their heads in shame. Why does it take an outsider ie Mr Thomson to ask the questions non-Rangers fans want and need answered?
I know I'm just a keyboard nonentity, but, I'd still like to know.
What is the ******g point, all of scottish fitbae shee-hiting themselves on the thought of losing of Rangers and the TV money that brings.
Tell you what, lets get back to basics, start looking after and playing good scottish talent, every team will be closer and you will have a more competitive league, more people coming through the door wanting to watch closer and more entertaining games!
Football is about coaching talent and working with it and growing it, not spending as much money as you dont have and buying title after title...
Rod - Please stand up and be counted and tell the SFA and Rangers to do one, start in the 3rd Division I for one couldn't give a monkeys if sky leave. Trust the coaching and infrastructure of the club you support!
(just read Steven Thomsons comments hence the rant!)
I know, how unusual it is to have a serious intelligent journalist report on a Scottish football issue, just shows how it should be done and what a disgrace the Glasgow media are..
Come on Rod... Stand up and be counted. Fans don't care about sky tv/espn or other televison "Superdeals". Once the tele companies are finished with football it will be as popular as darts and snooker on TV and just like those sports NOBODY WILL BE LEFT TO ATTEND live matches in the league.
Let's get it together and continue to Grow our own talent to compete in a FAIR LEAGUE.
If Newco Rankgers are allowed to walk back into the SPL every shred of integrity within the boards of the other SPL clubs disappears. All the posturing of your recent television appearance will be exactly that POSTURING.
I will never attend an SPL match again.
I think RP should walk into that meeting tomorrow, connect his laptop up to a projector and beam "Sport celebrates competition – business seeks to eliminate it" on to the wall and say "this gentlemen is why we are where we are at today, it's time we started a new era, who is ready?"