Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Beefster]

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Kilmarnock chairman Michael Johnston
"We need more clarity on Bill Miller's plan for Rangers and how it will it structured.

"There is a feeling that member clubs see the commercial benefits of having Rangers in SPL, even if it is a newco.

"Member clubs are mindful of a sporting integrity aspect but the commercial benefits outweigh that."


Shockeroony

That's that then. As soon as 'the Ten' split (assuming that they don't all feel the same way), the SPL and SFA have a mandate to let Rangers off with a light tap on the hand.

Clubs like Killie should be trying to attract more of their own fans instead of relying on the Bigots to make up the shortfall.

[cabbageandribs1875]

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If Rod Petrie said something like that I would be calling on him to resign immediately.

i'm quite sure that sir rod will have the same opinion as the killie chairman....every SPL chairman will be the same, i(and others) have thought all along that the buns will be in the SPL next season and will finish either 1st...or 2nd.....no change, our only hope of any serious damage to them will be the law/hector, the SPL have no f****n morals/integrity whatsoever, not where money is concerned, cash IS king END OF



'kin sickening

[Part/Time Supporter]

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Thankfully Rod does not have a history of changing his view to suit anybody other than Hibs. This is one occassion when I would welcome his bloody minded intransigence.

I hope and think that Rod will stick with that line. Hibs' circumstances (debt, fanbase) are much different from Killie's. The problem he's got is if he's outvoted. How does he sell that?

[Spike Mandela]

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I hope and think that Rod will stick with that line. Hibs' circumstances (debt, fanbase) are much different from Killie's. The problem he's got is if he's outvoted. How does he sell that?

He'll have to do a '12 Angry men' speech and appeal to their sense of justice and fairness. I can hear it now " gentlemen without sporting integrity we don't have a sport and we don't have integrity......."

[Eyrie]

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I hope and think that Rod will stick with that line. Hibs' circumstances (debt, fanbase) are much different from Killie's. The problem he's got is if he's outvoted. How does he sell that?

Hopefully by ignoring the principle of collective responsibility and coming out with a statement that he voted against letting NewHunCo get away with it. A few thousand baying bigots boycotting Easter Road in retaliation is something we can live with.

[Jim44]

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As would I Spike.





Thankfully Rod does not have a history of changing his view to suit anybody other than Hibs. This is one occassion when I would welcome his bloody minded intransigence.

.


........... and I hope that in due course, Petrie will tell us how he/Hibs voted. Further to the Killie chairman giving a vote of confidence, his manager, ten minutes ago, said in an interview, "Let's stop all this talk about Rangers being in the 3rd division. We all know they will definitely be in the SPL next season.". It wasn't said in a way that implied he was unhappy about it.

[LeithBoozy]

Rules for some teams, no rules for others, they are going to kill the game up here.

[Just Alf]

One of my mates at work's Killie fan. He's just said

"that's no more home games then, if your lot vote against them then at least I can watch Killie there"

He went on to say he'll be a travelling supporter but only to the teams that also voted against.....

Do these directors/pundits etc not realise?

We don't bl**dy care if our team needs to recut its cloth financially, sporting integrity is most important.... I'm getting so hacked off at listening to the radio and hearing pundits going on about how other teams will lose out as if they're on our bloody side and it's just we're too stupid to realise!!!!!!

[tamig]

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It looks like we are being stitched up. If this happens I will be getting a refund for my ST. You can call me every name under the sun. I will be done with this charade of a league. Chairmen seem to think that most people will still go, it's in the blood ain't it. Wrong. I was not raised a fool and I sense a mugs game. Hibs could collapse and go bust for all I would care about them. If our club as a sporting institution back these proposals, hell even if they do not and this newco are brought back in, I'm done.

I have followed this team since 1986. I have saw some right duff games in my time and some of the best. I have spent thousands of pounds on this club, I have endured god awful cold nights up in Aberdeen, Inverness etc with nothing to show for it bar a cold. But this would be the breaking point for me.

I've deliberately held off renewing until I see what the outcome of the hun fiasco is.

[KB1]

The thing I would like to see is this, Monday's game looks like it will have the largest hibs support of the season, how difficult would it be to have a member of staff at each turnstile asking the fans, "do you think rangers should be allowed back into SPL" a simple yes or no answer is all that's required, then collate the answers and Petrie votes with the majority view!

[Jim44]

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The thing I would like to see is this, Monday's game looks like it will have the largest hibs support of the season, how difficult would it be to have a member of staff at each turnstile asking the fans, "do you think rangers should be allowed back into SPL" a simple yes or no answer is all that's required, then collate the answers and Petrie votes with the majority view!

How very civil and democratic. But don't fool yourself that club chairmen will care about the fans' views far less consult them.

[ScottB]

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How very civil and democratic. But don't fool yourself that club chairmen will care about the fans' views far less consult them.

I'd say in this case it's more do the Chairman believe that the fans will walk away in disgust and never come back, or do they think they'll be angry but ultimately keep turning up.

I doubt there are any Chairman among the 11 other clubs who reckon their fans will be happy about it.

[Ozyhibby]

I think Monday could be the most important day for Scottish football ever. If the other eleven clubs vote to transfer rangers old membership to a new club without making it work it's way through the leagues like Ross county have done then any pretence at sporting integrity is gone. I can't see why anyone would bother to support any other team in the league knowing that your team are just there to make up the numbers in an old firm league.
My boy has just started playing for Spartans so I may just start taking him down to watch their senior team. Maybe the odd trip to an EPL game.
The level of cheating by Rangers over a ten year period is worthy of complete expulsion from the SFA, yet the clubs are willing to allow them to carry on without punishment. It really is shameful.
What will Hibs do? So far the silence is deafening. I personally believe that we will vote for admitting the new club directly into the SPL and if that's the case then we really will be a nothing club and withdrawing my support and that of my two sons will be an easy decision.
I'm afraid to say that Hampden may be my last game. It would at least be nice to go out on a high. GGTTH

[PatHead]

Can't believe Doncaster was blogging this in March when Hearts didn't pay wages. What a hypocrite!!!!!!!!!

CEO Blog

Financial Fair Play

Football and finance have often sat uneasily together. But with some of our clubs under intense financial pressure, it is no surprise that questions about ‘financial fair play’ have once again been raised in the context of Scottish football.

Crucial to an understanding of financial fair play, is an appreciation of why it is vital that clubs live within their means. This blog is an attempt to set out what is meant by ‘financial fair play’, and why prompt payment of players, the taxman and other member clubs is so important to football as a whole.

‘Financial fair play’ is a phrase that is often trotted out in football circles. It was one of 11 key values presented by UEFA President Michel Platini to the 2009 UEFA Congress. Its stated aim was to “restore well-being to the European club game”.

But what does ‘financial fair play’ really mean? UEFA’s explanation, in 2010, was that the concept would require clubs to balance their books over the medium term, not spend more than they earn, and operate within their financial means.

This is all seen as important for one key reason: because any club that is spending more on players than they can afford, is automatically gaining a sporting advantage over every other club it competes with. Whether the precise system of measurement used by UEFA is perfect is a moot point. But the logic behind the principle however is, I think, broadly sound. And it is this same principle that explains the position of the SPL.

To turn a blind eye, to allow clubs to continually fail to make prompt payments as they fall due, would be to allow those clubs to gain an unfair sporting advantage over all those other clubs that pay their players, the taxman and other clubs on time. That is one of the reasons why, whenever the SPL receives a request from players to adjudicate on their contracts, it has a duty to do so.

The fundamental basis of any football league is that all member clubs are treated equally. But, increasingly, leagues across the world are going further. In England, for example, the Football League routinely imposes a player embargo on clubs who fail to pay their players in full and on time. And, in League Two, clubs have accepted limits on the amounts that they can spend, relative to their income.

The whole issue of ‘financial fair play’ will no doubt continue to be developed across the whole of football. In the meantime, it is vital that the Scottish Premier League continue to treat all member clubs even-handedly.

It may put the SPL in the uncomfortable position of having to rule against member clubs in certain instances. Whenever we are requested by professional players to adjudicate on their contracts, for example, we should continue to do so. And, where appropriate, to rule in the players’ favour and to make orders for on-time payment by our member clubs.

The integrity of the entire League – and the long-term interests of all 12 member clubs within it – demands that we do just that.

More widely though, it is important that we keep the whole issue of financial fair play firmly in the spotlight. Improving our rule book and making it less likely that our member clubs end up in financial difficulty in the first place should continue to be a priority. And with this in mind, all 12 SPL member clubs will meet this Monday. On the agenda will be our existing rules on financial fair play and whether our current rule book needs improvement in the face of the financial challenges being faced by several member clubs.

If agreement in principle is reached, this could mean our clubs voting on new, tougher, rules on financial fair play at a general meeting, either in April or July this year. It will be a difficult debate. But it is vital that we do not shy away from these issues or bury our heads in the sand.

It may be uncomfortable to address these thorny problems head-on. But the long-term health and prosperity of Scottish football demands that we do just that.

Neil Doncaster
Chief Executive, Scottish Premier League

[calmac12000]

I can categorically state that after thirty five years of attending Scottish football matches and being treated like sh*t for the vast majority of that tim if the Huns are re-admitted into the SPL hopefully watching Hibernian winning the Scottish Cup will be the last time I spend any money on the SPL's sub-standard and rigged product.

[Twa Cairpets]

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I think Monday could be the most important day for Scottish football ever. If the other eleven clubs vote to transfer rangers old membership to a new club without making it work it's way through the leagues like Ross county have done then any pretence at sporting integrity is gone. I can't see why anyone would bother to support any other team in the league knowing that your team are just there to make up the numbers in an old firm league.
My boy has just started playing for Spartans so I may just start taking him down to watch their senior team. Maybe the odd trip to an EPL game.
The level of cheating by Rangers over a ten year period is worthy of complete expulsion from the SFA, yet the clubs are willing to allow them to carry on without punishment. It really is shameful.
What will Hibs do? So far the silence is deafening. I personally believe that we will vote for admitting the new club directly into the SPL and if that's the case then we really will be a nothing club and withdrawing my support and that of my two sons will be an easy decision.
I'm afraid to say that Hampden may be my last game. It would at least be nice to go out on a high. GGTTH

I think its the only way they can be.The Killie guy is being a classless lickspittle, and to state a position beofre a position by the SPL is discussed is appalling.

[Wat Dabney]

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I can categorically state that after thirty five years of attending Scottish football matches and being treated like sh*t for the vast majority of that tim if the Huns are re-admitted into the SPL hopefully watching Hibernian winning the Scottish Cup will be the last time I spend any money on the SPL's sub-standard and rigged product.

I feel the same. I emailed Hibs saying that I wouldn't be back if I thought Hibs were complicit in letting RFC back in. Got the standard reply saying that I'd be hurting Hibs not RFC - don't think they understand the feelings of the Hibs fans. Still haven't renewed even though I needed more tickets for cup final. Looks more and more likely that I won't be back. Shame.

[carnoustiehibee]

@michaelmcp: Great call on SSB. Caller had panel gazumped when asked them to name one relegated SPL side who went bust, afterall no OF revenue or tv cash

[Jim44]

If this farce pans out as most seem to think it will, can I suggest that as well as voting with their feet as far as SPL matches are concerned, the fans extend it also to a boycott of international matches involving the Scottish team.

[Saorsa]

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I can categorically state that after thirty five years of attending Scottish football matches and being treated like sh*t for the vast majority of that tim if the Huns are re-admitted into the SPL hopefully watching Hibernian winning the Scottish Cup will be the last time I spend any money on the SPL's sub-standard and rigged product.

Same here In the 30+ years I've been supporting Hibs and attending games things have always been stacked in favour of the OF and particularly so since the inception of the SPL but this is something else. If they get away with this and start as a newco in the SPL next season, that will be the end of the road for me and Scottish fitba. I have no intention of puting another penny into some so blatantly corrupt and morally bankrupt.

[Ozyhibby]

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I feel the same. I emailed Hibs saying that I wouldn't be back if I thought Hibs were complicit in letting RFC back in. Got the standard reply saying that I'd be hurting Hibs not RFC - don't think they understand the feelings of the Hibs fans. Still haven't renewed even though I needed more tickets for cup final. Looks more and more likely that I won't be back. Shame.

I think this is the problem. The club have totally failed to grasp the depth of feeling amongst the fans. Statements about fans not going back 'hurt Hibs more than Rangers' totally miss the point. It is now that we are trying to send a message to the club. This decision will be made on Monday. It will not be reversible. The fans who decide not to return will be gone forever. Most will be of the opinion that it does not matter how Hibs are hurt because Hibs will have committed sporting suicide anyway.
Hibs will have become like the guy who fights Big Daddy (showing my age) at the wrestling. Allowed to win a couple of rounds but Big Daddy always wins in the end.
Not something I'll be interested in.

[HFC 0-7]

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Like a firing squad where there is always one blank bullet. Everyone can say, it wasn't us who did the deed

Do these chairmen and clubs actually know what they are doing and the fall out that will come their way if the Huns are given a free pass into the SPL ? Every one of them will be named and shamed as the people who effectively KILLED a national sport. Their names should be carved in stone - starting with Johnston of Kilmarnock FC.

I just think that most chairmen these days looks at immediate ways to maximise income or at least retain what they have. I think if we punished rangers now it could be the start of a more competative league and better run league, however, there would be a shortfall in cash for the first season or two if the TV deal gets revised and no income from rangers support. What would probably happen would be an increase of support through the turnstyles but it wouldnt be instant.

Most Chairmen wont want to deal with a shortfall in income whilst waiting for more fans coming through the gates and therefore will be happy to have Rangers and the TV deal and having a better understanding of their income. IMO, they are wanting 11 chairmen there so that they cant hide behind 'it was a majority of the SPL that wanted rangers Newco voted straight back in'.

[grunt]

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Can't believe Doncaster was blogging this in March when Hearts didn't pay wages. What a hypocrite!!!!!!!!!

http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s109

That's a good find - we need to remind him of those words.

[jdships]

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I can categorically state that after thirty five years of attending Scottish football matches and being treated like sh*t for the vast majority of that tim if the Huns are re-admitted into the SPL hopefully watching Hibernian winning the Scottish Cup will be the last time I spend any money on the SPL's sub-standard and rigged product.

You can add my name to that list!!
As an ex player , albeit a long time ago, I was quite proud that I had, although for only a couple of years, played at a decent level and contributed to the pleasure supporters got from following their team etc.. No massive wages / transfer fees , no prima donnas just guys giving it their best shot for a decent wage .
SPL Chairmen are now close to signing a " cheats charter" plus there is no integrity or moral fibre being shown by them .
Scottish Football RIP
I will watch rugby , amateur football on the Links /Inverleith Park but not a penny to SPL teams

[EuanH78]

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I feel the same. I emailed Hibs saying that I wouldn't be back if I thought Hibs were complicit in letting RFC back in. Got the standard reply saying that I'd be hurting Hibs not RFC - don't think they understand the feelings of the Hibs fans. Still haven't renewed even though I needed more tickets for cup final. Looks more and more likely that I won't be back. Shame.

I have also emailed Hibs and to be honest the replies I have had seem perfectly clear that they understood my point of view and when I add that to Rod Petrie's statements on that farcical debate I am convinced Hibs will be doing the right thing. Yes, I got the 'only be hurting Hibs by not renewing' part of the answer as well but thats still true, whether Rangers are there or not.

Think about it another way, Rod Petrie is a money man - We've all done the fag packet calculations on here and realised that actually, Rangers and the smelly hordes they bring dont actually make us that much money. RP isnt an idiot, whatever some of us think on here, 50 -60 grand isnt worth what's being sold and I am convinced he knows that too. More than most RP knows about cutting the coat according to the cloth and reckon we (Hibs) are probably one of the teams in the best shape to be able to do that. In fact we've spent the last 20 odd years getting to the position where we are now, the ideal position to put the boot right into these ****ers.

On another track, loving Alex Thomson's work, he looked/ sounded genuinely appalled at what was unravelling at Ibrox. Good on him, bout time we got some real journalism.

Edit: I would expect Hibs not to be giving much away at this point anyway to be honest, cards close to chest and all that.

[Dalkeith]

"Member clubs are mindful of a sporting integrity aspect but the commercial benefits outweigh that."

cant believe that statement, can the clubs not see that the only clubs that will suffer are them as it wont affect the OF.

SPL will be laughing stock of world football

[Cheshire Hibee]

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Can't believe Doncaster was blogging this in March when Hearts didn't pay wages. What a hypocrite!!!!!!!!!

CEO Blog

Financial Fair Play

Football and finance have often sat uneasily together. But with some of our clubs under intense financial pressure, it is no surprise that questions about ‘financial fair play’ have once again been raised in the context of Scottish football.

Crucial to an understanding of financial fair play, is an appreciation of why it is vital that clubs live within their means. This blog is an attempt to set out what is meant by ‘financial fair play’, and why prompt payment of players, the taxman and other member clubs is so important to football as a whole.

‘Financial fair play’ is a phrase that is often trotted out in football circles. It was one of 11 key values presented by UEFA President Michel Platini to the 2009 UEFA Congress. Its stated aim was to “restore well-being to the European club game”.

But what does ‘financial fair play’ really mean? UEFA’s explanation, in 2010, was that the concept would require clubs to balance their books over the medium term, not spend more than they earn, and operate within their financial means.

This is all seen as important for one key reason: because any club that is spending more on players than they can afford, is automatically gaining a sporting advantage over every other club it competes with. Whether the precise system of measurement used by UEFA is perfect is a moot point. But the logic behind the principle however is, I think, broadly sound. And it is this same principle that explains the position of the SPL.

To turn a blind eye, to allow clubs to continually fail to make prompt payments as they fall due, would be to allow those clubs to gain an unfair sporting advantage over all those other clubs that pay their players, the taxman and other clubs on time. That is one of the reasons why, whenever the SPL receives a request from players to adjudicate on their contracts, it has a duty to do so.

The fundamental basis of any football league is that all member clubs are treated equally. But, increasingly, leagues across the world are going further. In England, for example, the Football League routinely imposes a player embargo on clubs who fail to pay their players in full and on time. And, in League Two, clubs have accepted limits on the amounts that they can spend, relative to their income.

The whole issue of ‘financial fair play’ will no doubt continue to be developed across the whole of football. In the meantime, it is vital that the Scottish Premier League continue to treat all member clubs even-handedly.

It may put the SPL in the uncomfortable position of having to rule against member clubs in certain instances. Whenever we are requested by professional players to adjudicate on their contracts, for example, we should continue to do so. And, where appropriate, to rule in the players’ favour and to make orders for on-time payment by our member clubs.

The integrity of the entire League – and the long-term interests of all 12 member clubs within it – demands that we do just that.

More widely though, it is important that we keep the whole issue of financial fair play firmly in the spotlight. Improving our rule book and making it less likely that our member clubs end up in financial difficulty in the first place should continue to be a priority. And with this in mind, all 12 SPL member clubs will meet this Monday. On the agenda will be our existing rules on financial fair play and whether our current rule book needs improvement in the face of the financial challenges being faced by several member clubs.

If agreement in principle is reached, this could mean our clubs voting on new, tougher, rules on financial fair play at a general meeting, either in April or July this year. It will be a difficult debate. But it is vital that we do not shy away from these issues or bury our heads in the sand.

It may be uncomfortable to address these thorny problems head-on. But the long-term health and prosperity of Scottish football demands that we do just that.

Neil Doncaster
Chief Executive, Scottish Premier League

Great find any chance you can direct me as to where to find the original blog, I feel a mass email to all clubs maybe in order on behalf of splfansurvey.co.uk

[grunt]

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Great find any chance you can direct me as to where to find the original blog, I feel a mass email to all clubs maybe in order on behalf of splfansurvey.co.uk

See post 6966.

[Jim44]

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Can't believe Doncaster was blogging this in March when Hearts didn't pay wages. What a hypocrite!!!!!!!!!

CEO Blog

Financial Fair Play

Football and finance have often sat uneasily together. But with some of our clubs under intense financial pressure, it is no surprise that questions about ‘financial fair play’ have once again been raised in the context of Scottish football.

Crucial to an understanding of financial fair play, is an appreciation of why it is vital that clubs live within their means. This blog is an attempt to set out what is meant by ‘financial fair play’, and why prompt payment of players, the taxman and other member clubs is so important to football as a whole.

‘Financial fair play’ is a phrase that is often trotted out in football circles. It was one of 11 key values presented by UEFA President Michel Platini to the 2009 UEFA Congress. Its stated aim was to “restore well-being to the European club game”.

But what does ‘financial fair play’ really mean? UEFA’s explanation, in 2010, was that the concept would require clubs to balance their books over the medium term, not spend more than they earn, and operate within their financial means.

This is all seen as important for one key reason: because any club that is spending more on players than they can afford, is automatically gaining a sporting advantage over every other club it competes with. Whether the precise system of measurement used by UEFA is perfect is a moot point. But the logic behind the principle however is, I think, broadly sound. And it is this same principle that explains the position of the SPL.

To turn a blind eye, to allow clubs to continually fail to make prompt payments as they fall due, would be to allow those clubs to gain an unfair sporting advantage over all those other clubs that pay their players, the taxman and other clubs on time. That is one of the reasons why, whenever the SPL receives a request from players to adjudicate on their contracts, it has a duty to do so.

The fundamental basis of any football league is that all member clubs are treated equally. But, increasingly, leagues across the world are going further. In England, for example, the Football League routinely imposes a player embargo on clubs who fail to pay their players in full and on time. And, in League Two, clubs have accepted limits on the amounts that they can spend, relative to their income.

The whole issue of ‘financial fair play’ will no doubt continue to be developed across the whole of football. In the meantime, it is vital that the Scottish Premier League continue to treat all member clubs even-handedly.

It may put the SPL in the uncomfortable position of having to rule against member clubs in certain instances. Whenever we are requested by professional players to adjudicate on their contracts, for example, we should continue to do so. And, where appropriate, to rule in the players’ favour and to make orders for on-time payment by our member clubs.

The integrity of the entire League – and the long-term interests of all 12 member clubs within it – demands that we do just that.

More widely though, it is important that we keep the whole issue of financial fair play firmly in the spotlight. Improving our rule book and making it less likely that our member clubs end up in financial difficulty in the first place should continue to be a priority. And with this in mind, all 12 SPL member clubs will meet this Monday. On the agenda will be our existing rules on financial fair play and whether our current rule book needs improvement in the face of the financial challenges being faced by several member clubs.

If agreement in principle is reached, this could mean our clubs voting on new, tougher, rules on financial fair play at a general meeting, either in April or July this year. It will be a difficult debate. But it is vital that we do not shy away from these issues or bury our heads in the sand.

It may be uncomfortable to address these thorny problems head-on. But the long-term health and prosperity of Scottish football demands that we do just that.

Neil Doncaster
Chief Executive, Scottish Premier League

This is breathtakingly hypocritical and the absolute antithesis of the action we all expect this yesman to take in the not too distant future .......... The clearest example of lip-service I've heard in years.

[Sexton]

this might sound like mince, and probably something that couldn't happen too quickly. But, if the huns got emptied and the league got increased, would the extra home games have any compensation on the cash that might be lost from the loss of tv monies?

Just a thought really.