Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[hibsbollah]

I didnt see a reply to my question last week, i may have missed it. Will the identity of which teams voted yes and no in tomorrows vote will be made public?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Am I being over dramatic or could this meeting tomorrow signal the death throes for Scottish league football as we know it?

[Moulin Yarns]

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I didnt see a reply to my question last week, i may have missed it. Will the identity of which teams voted yes and no in tomorrows vote will be made public?

Only if Ally McCoist demands it.

[Caversham Green]

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http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footbal...6908-23849612/


has this been posted yet, if not then those of a nervous disposition better not read it

That should make the decision much easier then. There was previously the option of a compromise 'yes' vote so long as there were penalties attached. Now that that has apparently gone (according to the Record at least) there can only be a right and wrong decision. If the comments from the weak and greedy Michael Johnston are anything to go by, my money's on the latter.

As a side issue, Hibs attract bigger crowds than Dunfermline and are probably a bigger commercial attraction. I wonder if Mr Johnston would agree to the SPL awarding us a point tomorrow for commercial benefits rather than bothering with a game of football.

[Barney McGrew]

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I didnt see a reply to my question last week, i may have missed it. Will the identity of which teams voted yes and no in tomorrows vote will be made public?

Only if the vote doesn't go the way that Rangers want it to

[Jack]

Club chairmen have a stark choice to make.

Lose the money from rangers being in the league and all the commercial stuff that goes with it, or

rangers stay in the SPL. All clubs with the exception of them and possibly celtc lose up to half their supporters.

In scenario 1 sporting integrity is maintained and possibly with increased and fair competition crowds slowly increase. Clubs playing within the rules triumph over evil.

In scenario 2 the medium term outlook is bleak. It could lead to the demise of professional club football in Scotland with any clubs remaining joining the English leagues.

In the long term the OF get what they've been after all along, playing down south.

Anyone into conspiracy theories might think to two of them had planned this whole thing from the very beginning.

[Jim44]

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I didnt see a reply to my question last week, i may have missed it. Will the identity of which teams voted yes and no in tomorrows vote will be made public?

Who's to say there will be a vote tomorrow? They ajourned the last meeting saying they would reconvene but not necessarily vote. Rangers ally, Michael Johnstone, in his pro Rangers utterence said that they should delay hasty votes until they have more information ........ What he really means is. ........ Let's give Rangers time to get their newco foot in the door before any new sanctions can be applied.

[Onion]

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http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footbal...6908-23849612/


has this been posted yet, if not then those of a nervous disposition better not read it

Basically says that few in any of the sanctions will be approved on Monday and if they do vote to let the NewCo into the SPL then it will have to without punishment - oh joy !

SPL heading towards meltdown - caused by the Huns - whichever way this goes.

[Onion]

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That should make the decision much easier then. There was previously the option of a compromise 'yes' vote so long as there were penalties attached. Now that that has apparently gone (according to the Record at least) there can only be a right and wrong decision. If the comments from the weak and greedy Michael Johnston are anything to go by, my money's on the latter.

As a side issue, Hibs attract bigger crowds than Dunfermline and are probably a bigger commercial attraction. I wonder if Mr Johnston would agree to the SPL awarding us a point tomorrow for commercial benefits rather than bothering with a game of football.

I like it ! And that's the problem with Johnston and his like - where the hell do you stop ?

On a serious note, if it was the Huns or Tic playing DAFC tomorrow for their SPL lives, what the SPL is saying is that they would not allow the Huns or Tic to lose. Or if NewHuns do go
straight into the SPL and have to play 18 year olds, they are immune from relegation.

The biggest problem Rangers have got in this whole sorry mess is that they can't rely on a load of dodgy ref decisions to sort out their finances and law-breaking which is the biggest irony of all.

[Seveno]

I'm getting a bit weary of the doom mongers and 'I'll never go back again' brigade. Sporting integrity is just as important to me but I am not going to punish my club for the misdemeanours of others.

What some people seem to forget is that the main charges against Rangers have still to be proven or confirmed. The inquiry into dual contracts is still under way and the Tribunal has still to deliver its verdict on the appeal under the BTC. Until Rangers have been found guilty of breaking SFA rules and cheating the tax man for 10 years, then I think the SPL Chairmen should keep their powder dry.

As things stand, a newco Rangers are already facing hefty penalties :

1) The 12 months transfer embargo
2) A 3 year ban from Europe
3) A 2 year penalty deduction.

Plus all the litigation over the various points at issue. ( I can't be bothered listing them ).

If these stick then it well it will take them a long time to recover.

If the dual contract inquiry finds against them, then the SFA will have to act and impose a far more stringent punishment than the transfer embargo. Suspension of their licence surely has to be a real possibility.

This story has a long way to go and we should be sticking by our club at this time and showing some faith in our Chairman.

[Jim44]

If there is a vote tomorrow, I think the details will be kept secret. Johnstone and Yorkston are the only ones who have shown their hands so far. The others will want things kept quiet but there will almost certainly be a leak and then the 'revenge' party begins.

[Just Alf]

@Paulmcc12: Rangers and the Incubator – Part 2 – Who Could Stop the Deal?

http://t.co/zbkMDeJF

[Barney McGrew]

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As things stand, a newco Rangers are already facing hefty penalties :

1) The 12 months transfer embargo
2) A 3 year ban from Europe
3) A 2 year penalty deduction.

Plus all the litigation over the various points at issue. ( I can't be bothered listing them )

The whole point is though, the way thing appear to be going then points (1) and (3) won't apply because they'll have been sanctioned against the OldCo. Likewise, the litigation will be against the old version.

[hibsbollah]

If you were a SPL bigwig who had just voted to force huns into the third division, the last thing youd want is your identity publicised so the buckfast and lidl loyal could send you bullets in the post and haraass your kids at school.

[hibs0666]

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The whole point is though, the way thing appear to be going then points (1) and (3) won't apply because they'll have been sanctioned against the OldCo. Likewise, the litigation will be against the old version.

I'm not sure about that The SFA does not talk in terms of companies but instead talks about clubs. The huns are claiming that a transfer to newco allows the club to continue i.e. it does not need to re-apply to join the SFA etc. Given that (1) was imposed on the club by the SFA then the punishment might well stay in place on transfer.

There is no 2 year penalty deduction yet agreed.

[Jim44]

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The whole point is though, the way thing appear to be going then points (1) and (3) won't apply because they'll have been sanctioned against the OldCo. Likewise, the litigation will be against the old version.

Points 1 and 3 might very well apply as I think that the sanctions are against the SPL licence and not the actual 'oldco' or 'newco'. Surely the newco will hold the licence and therefore are hit.

[Barney McGrew]

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I'm not sure about that The SFA does not talk in terms of companies but instead talks about clubs. The huns are claiming that a transfer to newco allows the club to continue i.e. it does not need to re-apply to join the SFA etc. Given that (1) was imposed on the club by the SFA then the punishment might well stay in place on transfer.

There is no 2 year penalty deduction yet agreed.

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Points 1 and 3 might very well apply as I think that the sanctions are against the SPL licence and not the actual 'oldco' or 'newco'. Surely the newco will hold the licence and therefore are hit.

I think their argument appears to be that the assets will be moved to NewCo while the 'history' remains in OldCo until it comes out of administration (aye right). In that case, they could argue that OldCo still exists and therefore should carry the punishment. You can bet that's what they'll try and get everyone to swallow anyway.

Shall we place bets on the sanctions remaining in place against a NewCo or reduced/removed on appeal for the OldCo?

I think we can guess which way it will go unfortunately.

[PeeKay]

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I think their argument appears to be that the assets will be moved to NewCo while the 'history' remains in OldCo until it comes out of administration (aye right). In that case, they could argue that OldCo still exists and therefore should carry the punishment. You can bet that's what they'll try and get everyone to swallow anyway.

Shall we place bets on the sanctions remaining in place against a NewCo or reduced/removed on appeal for the OldCo?

I think we can guess which way it will go unfortunately.

But only one can hold the licence and the punishment goes with the licence. If the licence (and punishment) stay with the oldco, then the newco cannot play a team in the SPL.

[Seveno]

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Points 1 and 3 might very well apply as I think that the sanctions are against the SPL licence and not the actual 'oldco' or 'newco'. Surely the newco will hold the licence and therefore are hit.

I agree that, if Rangers walk away with out any penalty at all, then it is scandalous and a good reason to try to organise some form of protest by all non-Old Firm fans. Although I really do think that UEFA would step in at that stage.

In the meantime, stay calm but write lots of letters toRod, Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan. Moaning on here will do nothing. Walking away will achieve nothing either other than hurting the Club you love and making it even easier for the Ugly Sisters to dominate.

[carnoustiehibee]

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I agree that, if Rangers walk away with out any penalty at all, then it is scandalous and a good reason to try to organise some form of protest by all non-Old Firm fans. Although I really do think that UEFA would step in at that stage.

In the meantime, stay calm but write lots of letters toRod, Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan. Moaning on here will do nothing. Walking away will achieve nothing either other than hurting the Club you love and making it even easier for the Ugly Sisters to dominate.

why not wait and see how many clubs want the punishment. i.e only st mirren and aberdeen want a newco rangers relagated, then all other fans of the spl clubs only go to support those two teams for 1 season.

[Just Alf]

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why not wait and see how many clubs want the punishment. i.e only st mirren and aberdeen want a newco rangers relagated, then all other fans of the spl clubs only go to support those two teams for 1 season.

That's what my Killie mate's doing next season, he's gonna be at the Hibs games, Hibs end, unless Killie are playing when he'll be an away supporter! Assuming RP votes the way we want him to of course.

[TheEastTerrace]

Utd's Stephen Thomson on Rangers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17975013

[Lungo--Drom]

Who says three years? :D :D :D
Aye it could be three years but they might end up like FC United of Manchester, formed by rebel fans after Glazer bought them out, doing not badly but basically stuck forever in the 6th level of the English competition. Not quite a direct comparison I know but how many of the blue monkey brigade will stop following the team (or using it as an excuse for being sectarian thugs) and if the support base falls away so will the money and so will the level of player etc. etc. downwards ever downwards...... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . <gone>

Ach dreamin as usual :D

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....It would do more good in the long term than placing Rangers in division 3 and allowing them to return to an unreformed existing structure in three years.

[sambajustice]

Personally, for various reasons, I'd fall into the "never go back brigade"

What could possibly be an idea is for all the estranged fans of all the SPL clubs to somehow get together and "support" another team. A fairly central, unoffensive team such as Stirling Albion. What a hoot that would be if they started getting 15k+ fans attending their games! Apart from not everyone being able to get in it would be making some statement!

[Beefster]

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Utd's Stephen Thomson on Rangers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17975013

I reckon this (and Johnston's chat) is the SPL PR campaign to get the fans to understand why the SPL 'just had to' let a Rangers newco stay in the league.

[TheEastTerrace]

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I reckon this (and Johnston's chat) is the SPL PR campaign to get the fans to understand why the SPL 'just had to' let a Rangers newco stay in the league.

Sure is

'Our hands were tied'.

[grunt]

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I reckon this (and Johnston's chat) is the SPL PR campaign to get the fans to understand why the SPL 'just had to' let a Rangers newco stay in the league.

I think you're right. On Sportsound this afternoon, Chick Young saying that all the Chairmen know what the right thing to do is, but they are swayed by the commercial benefits. What sort of message does this send to the youth of Scotland today? Surely if you know what the "right thing to do" is, you do it? There's no debate.

[jgl07]

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Ach I'm fine with this balance sheet over sporting integrity. It'll be interesting to see the price list showing how much it'll cost a club to buy points from another club.

How do you think it'll go?

£2000 for a point
£5000 for a win

or will it be based on league position?

May the richest team win

How much would Hibs get to sell their cup final place to Celtic?

[Hibrandenburg]

Hope that our chairman decides for integrity and Rangers end up having to field this team-

Naismith, Naifuture, Naiclass, Naimoney, Naistadium, Naihope, Naitrophies, Naiprospects, Naifans, Naimanager, Naiplayers.

[grunt]

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...-football/1392