https://news.stv.tv/west-central/sou...nocide-in-gaza
Well done south africa.
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https://news.stv.tv/west-central/sou...nocide-in-gaza
Well done south africa.
I admire the sentiment but, in reality, Isreal will just ignore any legally binding judgement that they don’t agree with. Unfortunately it’s going to take the Americans to come up with something that will force Israel’s hand and I can’t see that happeningQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
The more countries thst follow what SA have done, the more difficult it will be for israel to ignore it - pretty sure sanctions and boycotts played an important role in ending apartheid there, and taking the matter to the hague might help instigate that, even if the US and UK pretend to be sacks of potatoes for as long as possible...obviously it's unlikely, but there is experience behind their actions as well as sentiment.Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
Things are changing in the US. Young people no longer support Isreal and there are large Muslim populations as well. That and the horrific pictures we can all see on social media mean that the tide is turning against Isreal. Biden is likely too slow to notice this happening but it’s likely to cost him in November.Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentDaleCooper
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Not so sure about that, especially when you consider his likely opponent endorsed Israel moving their capital city to Jerusalem which was widely condemned at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I actually don’t think Trump will make the starting line.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
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Don't you. I hope not, but think he'll fall on his feetQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Qatari and Israeli sources have been reporting on a deal involving Hamas stepping down from power to stop the war. Saudi news are saying Hamas has agreed.
There would be a Egyptian, Qatari, Saudi and US agreed government. Hostages would be released in return for Palestinians. Israel would stop all air activities including drones, Israel would stop ground operation. Hamas would stop all attacks against Israel.
Suspect this will happen Saudi, Qatar and the US will want to go back to making money and the war is preventing growth.
It's might not happen but fair play Keir Starmer its pretty much what he was suggesting and more likely than Israel just stopping.
Hopefully it happens and in an ideal world Hamas and Israeli governments would face war crimes trials for their evil crimes to the populations, I won't hold my breath.
https://twitter.com/amaherYAH/status...76729887789124
Let’s hope this happens but I don’t think we should be patting anyone on the back when we have about 15,000 dead children?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Also, there is nothing in that about removing settlements from the West Bank so I doubt it gets fully implemented.
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There's is only condemnation to Hamas and Israel for the children. After 2000 dead Israelis the **** in Netanyahus government were always going to slaughter. I just can't get my head round Hamas doing what they did it was always going to turn out one way. I can only think of pressure from Iran and Russia for separate reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
After the horror there needed to be a way out that both would agree to , this seems like a way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Hopefully it comes to fruition, but i have serious doubts.
I don’t believe you can have a government that does not, in some way, have an input from a Palestinian body, whether it be the PA, Hamas or some other recognised Palestinian organisation. Israel have already stated that they want control of the Philadelphia corridor, which if granted, gives them total control over all of the Gaza strip borders. That doesn’t sound like they will be giving up anything any time soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Is this being reported any where else? I’m not seeing it.
Not that the have agreed that I've seen. The proposal has been widely reported but I'm dubious. US, Egypt and Saudi will be pushing for it I'd think. Iran will be the opposite they want to derail the Saudi Israel normalisation deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
Sadly I think it'll be some Israeli puppet that is put in place, the people won't accept that
High ranking Hamas official killed in Beirut, Lebanon. Are the Israelis just trying to piss every other Arab country off??
Anyone else get the feeling that things are starting to slide out of control and that a much wider conflict is now inevitable?
yeah - it's a really bad state of affairs when I'm relieved to see IS are behind a bombing in Iran and not Israel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lendo
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentDaleCooper
Was that definitely IS?
I saw the reports of the attack earlier but didn't realise somebody has admitted it was them.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e1e7af7696.jpg
Shame.[emoji2369]
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I would tell him to get tae, unfortunately there are jobs at stake for many who probably sympathise with the plight of the Palestinians. So I won’t.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
However, this is just another example of who social media can screw things around to suit a particular agenda.
Eat at another restaurant. That way you are just supporting other jobs. There is no net loss to jobs or the economy.Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
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Whole thing makes no sense McDonald's are franchises. One Israeli branch gave out free food to Israeli soldiers on October 8th so people are saying boycott all McDonald's, which are private businesses. McDonald's stock is 10% up from October the 7th so not sure its working.
I burst out laughing when I saw the reason people were saying to boycott Zara. Basically Zara had a new campaign shot month ago with wrapped up manicans and art supplies. Protesters are saying it resembles Gaza, some headcases just want to protest shops on a Saturday. Pics in article
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mir...e-31649868.amp
McDonald’s themselves say they gave out 100k free meals to IDF so I doubt that’s one branch. And it’s McDonalds themselves who are saying the boycott is hurting them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Stock prices can be affected by lots of different things not related to day to day business.
I hope the boycott continues.
I didn’t know about Zara but my lifetime boycott remains in place.[emoji106]
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The Israeli franchisee to be more accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Given the level of control McDonalds have over all their franchisees then this is on McDonalds as a whole. They could stop it if they wanted.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
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What level of control do they have? Off the top of my head I would have no idea, I’m impressed you know though. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Could they stop UK franchisees giving free meals to British troops for instance?
No they couldn't McDonald's Israel owner paid for them himself £1 millionQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
It was also in the days after 2000 Israelis were murdered and before the air and ground campaign slaughter had kicked off this started. Any anger should go to him if he's still feeding troops.
In the latest case of some genocide is OK some not. South Africa days after reporting Israel to the UN for genocide, ridiculously welcome the butcher of Darfur
South African president welcomes Janjaweed militia leader Hemedti. He was personally responsible for dozens of massacres in a genocide that's estimated to have cost 500k lives and the lives of hundreds of thousands of children.
He should be up in court with Netanyahu
Can’t remember the last time I ate at McDonald’s, my contribution to the fast food sector is minisculeQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Israel’s plan for Gaza Strip when the stop their slaughter. Hopefully they will told by the US to ram it. It’s not up to them to decide who governs the Palestinians, it’s the Palestinians themselves who should decide.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/...-plan-for-gaza
Sounds like we are about to go to war with Yemen.[emoji22]
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Won't be a war. Its a coalition with US, UK, India, Germany Australia, Japan, Sweden and others to keep the red sea open. Constant attacks from Houthi pirates and Iranian missile and drone attacks on ships and US bases. The US have been a bit weak in taking it for a month.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
It all stems from Iran, Syria and Russia. Shahed drones are a huge problem for NATO
Worked for Thatch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
If they set a trap we might as well walk into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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People who say its just a shipping lane so what miss the point. One we should stop groups who repeatedly fire missles and hijack civilian ships as a given, its why we have a navy. Two from an ecological perspective millions of barrels of fuel will be burned in putting shipping round Africa. Three shipping costs can lead to inflation which brings poverty. Poverty equals deaths hundreds of thousands of lives lost from tories austerity shows us that and that is just uk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Keep the shipping lanes open for civilian vessels it's important. Ukraines biggest military achievement last year was getting the black sea open for civilian vessels, the world owes them for it
It will be interesting to see if it can be achieved by launching a few missiles back?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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I doubt it will stop the Houthis in anyway as in being a military force because there won't be a ground operation or anything, rightly. But we can keep the red sea open hopefully seeing as there are a number of countries signed up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Saying we're bombing Yemen is playing politics we're hitting a few military targets of a group that's cost thousands of Yemeni lives and is hitting civilian targets. I'd change my opinion if we copied Saudi Arabias indiscriminate bombing. We should just make sure the sea is open and civilians are unharmed and that's it
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
I’ll put my hands up here and state that my views may be coloured by my former career as a Merchant Seaman.
It is the duty of Goverment’s worldwide to protect civilian ships and their crews from harm to allow them to go about their lawful business. The only surprise is that it took so long for these strikes to happen.
I really wish they weren’t and that this is just part of a multi approach strategy to prevent further harm to innocent seafarers.
And if the drone strikes continue? If they still threaten ships? What’s the plan? Saying we are going to stop them is like saying Isreal will wipe out Hamas. It’s not going to happen. So now we have done this and they continue, how do we escalate? Do we invade?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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Saying Israel will wipe out Hamas is like saying the coalition will wipe out isis. They pretty much did isis went from a nation state to a tiny group hiding in the desert. We don't escalate wee a a huge group of nations blutter anyone who tries to hijack in the areaQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
If Ukraine on its own can open the black sea, a few dozen nations including 4 g7 can open the red sea.
Isis were never that strong. They held a lot of territory for a very short time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
I admire your confidence that Hamas will be gone. I personally don’t think so and think eventually they will need to be negotiated with.
And I think opening the Black Sea and the narrow straight at the mouth of the Red Sea are slightly different.
I’d prefer we looked at the region more holistically and that starts with a two state solution with Isreal and Palestine. If not then we are constantly going round in circles. New generations of Muslims growing up hating the west.
The whole world will now have to endure higher prices now just to indulge Israel’s genocidal tendencies in Gaza. Fantastic.
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The Houthis situation has zero to do with Gaza, the murdering Houthis who have been slaughtering Yemenis for years would like people to group them to the Palestinian genocide but it's waffle. You can't compare the black and red sea as Russia isn't the much weaker Houthis and Ukraine aren't UK, US, Germany, India ect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Hamas will be gone. Israel control the whole of North Gaza and are going building by building. There are full battalions being stood down and returning to Israel. The only question is who will replace Hamas
https://news.sky.com/story/middle-ea...-west-13046541
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Can Hamas be eliminated?
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/12/isra...-weigh-in.html
Im in broad agreement with that, I even think that Hamas, politically, need to be involved in any post war discussions about the future of the Palestinian people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
"The brutality and inhumanity of Israel’s assault on Gaza is no surprise. It’s just what was promised"
Owen Jones - The Gaurdian
Nothing there that is any surprise, I doubt very much if anything will come of South Africa’s efforts. Unfortunately the Israeli state seems to be untouchable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
Unfortunately Hamas make Israel untouchable.Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
By constantly saying they want to wipe Israel off the map and Oct 7th will be repeated, it gives Israel carte blanche to do as they wish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4185
That's the problem; when we have two groups that think of each other as sub-human and want to annihilate each other.
If all other countries of the world condemned both groups for such hateful views, and refused to support them, then a resolution might be less difficult.
Sadly that's never going to be the case, especially when it comes to the likes of Iran and the US.
American dollars and western support make them untouchable. Without that things would be very different imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4185
And without Iran and Iranian cash, things would be very different for Hamas and the Houthi’s.Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
In fact there wouldnt have been a October 7th without Iranian supprt so perhaps blaming US dollars and western support is just wrong
Starting to see many food shortages due to Red Sea closure and Farmers blocking roads in Germany
There wouldn’t have been an October 7th if the Israelis hadn’t been murdering and oppressing Palestinians for years. To suggest otherwise is just wrongQuote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4185
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
Yep, it’s too simplistic to say that this or that thing is the cause. This has been building for decades, and there’s a number of external players involved as well
There's a wide Web of causes for both parties acting as the do. The vast majority of responsibility has to go to both evil governments though. Israel for continuing the genocide they have been committing for decades. Hamas for the brutal murder of 2000 people mostly civilians.
It won't change until both governments are gone. You can't have two sides that want the destruction of the other, staying in charge if you want a future of peace
Not far away Turkey has used the cover of Israel taking all the news to increase its bombing of kurdish civilian infrastructure. Rojava has been getting annihilated the last 3 months more than usual. Won't be any marches and Erdoğan with visit the uk with smiles and hugs. The world was silent when Syria completely flattened Aleppo killing tens of thousands so its not surprising.
https://twitter.com/LindseySnell/sta...04561987502452
It’s good that the UK has taken a side though and giving our full support to wiping the other out. [emoji106]Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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That isn't true but makes a good soundbite. Like in Syria, Turkey, Rwanda were doing what we always do nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I think Starmer’s proposal was about best. Hamas give up the hostages and Israel stop bombing. Seems simple but both sides want to destroy each other.
.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
And therein lies the crux. Without a 2 state solution there is no peace for the Palestinians and the Israelis won’t accept anything that allows the Palestinians a state of their own in their desired location
I know it's disgusting and every policy for the future I've seen touted by Israel falls miles short, they are wanting a puppet leadership under their controlQuote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
Did he mention Isreal releasing their hostages?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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There's a false equivalence comparing the two. Israels prisoners are often I'm sure imprisoned on made up charges but they are tried or awaiting trial. Many would be better described as political prisoners. That's different from the mass detention and systematic rape of civilians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
As I've said umpteen times both government on the separate sides are up their with the most vile regimes in the world. Just because Israel is committing genocide it doesn't mean deflection should be used to protect the homophobic, rapists and antisemitic Hamas.
We're now also seeing the bizarre site of people defending the terrorist Houthis. Houthis have been killing Yemenis for years, openly enslave people and are trying to bomb civilians.
Jeremy Corbyn and Iain Duncan Smith both ask good questions in today’s debate. [emoji102][emoji23]
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I’m not defending the Houthi’s, I’d just like to see a comprehensive plan to try bring about peace rather than getting sucked into each individual skirmish. I doubt we will be able to stop the Houthi’s attacking ships unless we are willing to massively increase our involvement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
I also think that while we have no interest in a two state solution then we are going to be constantly getting involved in these things.
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How long should this plan take. This morning they sent a drone to a US cruiser and reports coming through that an hour ago they shot a missile at a Greek cargo ship.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Doesn't need one boot on the ground, missiles should be sent to every Houthi radar station and launch site until they can slow this down. Ukraine with no navy opening the Black see with HIMARS is more impressive than dozens of nations keeping the red sea open.
Or we could do nothing close the red sea and then complain at the starvation and inflation it causes
I can agree with this action if I thought we had a more comprehensive plan? In the meantime, we are dancing to Iran’s tune.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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Yemeni government appear to disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/15/airstrikes-houthis-aidarus-al-zoubaidi-yemen
Whilst I appreciate they have much to gain from further action against the Houthi’s, there is a good point here. The Saudis have been bombing them for years and have now effectively given up. And the Houthi’s still have the resources to carry out these attacks.
Why are our bombs going to succeed where the Saudis couldn't?
Yeah they are going to disagree as they want the weapons and power to win the civil war.Quote:
Originally Posted by neil7908
Saudis weren't looking to keep open the sea they were trying to make their proxy win as Ukraine shows opening a sea corridor is easier than winning a land battle.
They don't need the Houthis defeated that would need soldiers. They just need to open the sea corridor. It'll be hard and ongoing but there is no choice bar hitting Iran directly
Well the poop has hit the fan. They have struck through proxies previously. Iran has just hit the US embassy and an army base in Erbil with ballistic missiles. Irans revolutionary guards have taken responsibility.
US did nothing when Iran supplied Russia with drones, funded Hamas, supplied drones to Houthis to hit civilians and hit us bases through proxies. The US surely can't still do nothing now. Appeasement doesn't work with people who want destruction
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
https://www-dailysabah-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.dailysabah.com/world/mid-east/iran-carries-out-strikes-near-us-base-in-iraqs-irbil/amp?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM %3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17053580123488&refe rrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3 A%2F%2Fwww.dailysabah.com%2Fworld%2Fmid-east%2Firan-carries-out-strikes-near-us-base-in-iraqs-irbil
Is that the same story?
Yeah a bit worryingQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Nowhere in that article does it say that missiles hit us base or embassy!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Well that's that then hahaQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Here's footage of one of the strikes it's ballistic by the speed
https://twitter.com/Joyce_Karam/status/1747005682799272341
Many reports including kurdish and US say US Consulate, the US Al-Harir base and the international airport hit
I've still seen no reports on mainstream news. I do wonder where you get your information.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Latest on the BBC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67989193
Masrour Barzani kurdish pm had said the US Consulate was damaged but the US state department are saying US building weren't targeted. Al Jazeera are saying that the US are keen to downplay the incident. BBC is sharing the crazy Iranian line that it was different Mossad centres hit. Probably wait to see what was actually hitQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
I hope the US aren't hit any time soon only as eventually they would be forced to retaliate.
It looks like some kurdish civilian buildings were destroyed though. The only group of people no one will march for and no politician will tweet about. Their civilians are getting hammered from Iran and Turkey
The situation in the middle east is worrying enough without people posting inaccurate 'news'.
It might be best to check the details/sources first before posting.
Absolutely. 👍Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-67999465
Iran is becoming a big problem, firing on Pakistan now.
Just been watching some really upsetting news reports from hospitals in Gaza, where doctors are having to treat patients, and perform surgery, with little to no medicine.
One young lad had to have his leg amputated after an Israeli air strike... without anesthetic.
Anybody supporting these evil *******s is beneath contempt.
So, looks like a regional war that we'll inevitably be dragged into.
Just what we need 😔😔
Pakistan retaliate against Iran, several dead.
Are there no such thing as hospital ships ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
A couple of those, U N run, anchored off the Gaza coast could relieve some of the suffering and not provide cover for Hamas operatives.
Israel control the water off gaza though.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
I know but has a hospital ship ever been proposed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
It would probably suit the Israelis , take away cover for Hamas, and less political flack.
Yup even before this all kicked off they wouldn't allow Gaza to fish out to its internationally recognised 12 mile limit instead keeping them hemmed in to 6 miles, this in turn decimated the local fish stocks / fishing industryQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
I doubt saving innocent Palestinian lives is a priority for the Israelis, if it was we wouldn’t have a death toll of over 20,000.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
https://www.chathamhouse.org/2023/10...tal-ships-gaza
There seems to have been a call for hospital ships but that’s as far as it has got.
Are there a lot of these things lying about?[emoji2369]Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
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Here we go. The death spiral has begun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
If the UK, US and EU countries grew a set of balls, they would send hospital ships, and defend them with their own navy.
I wonder why they don't...
How about this one ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
https://www.vesselfinder.com/vessels/details/9726499
Seemingly China has 11 hospital ships.
We could donate the Bibby Stockholm 😉Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68040493
It's getting worse!!
I like Micheal Horowitz here's a good new article on Ben-Gvir and Smotrich. Two people who were seen as outsiders but are now in Netanyahus horrible right wing government. Hopefully these ****bags are defeated at the next election as is expected
https://en.majalla.com/node/308766/p...e-power-israel
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-mid..._medium=social
Last lot of air strikes must not have worked?[emoji849]
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Good stuff. Through satellite images it was shown two of the strikes blew up ballistic missiles in their launchers. Not sure if there is anyone who wouldn't be happy about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I just doubt this will be successful. The low cost missiles and drones has changed things. The Houthi’s have managed to implement a naval blockade without having a navy. This is the first time this has ever been done and will have big consequences here and elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
I don’t believe we can stop them just by launching missiles at them, it is going to require ground forces and I don’t think we have the desire to do that.
I think the Red Sea will remain closed for as long as the houthis want it to be.
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So what is your plan do nothing. Probably needs a new thread as this has nothing to do with Israel it's Iran wanting instability.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
We could do nothing and increase world prices for shipping, cause inflation, burn millions of litres of fuel in rerouting and have the ships that do cross hit by missles. Or we could try to do something. Long range drones need runways and missles need launch pads, everyone hit is a bonus
I would focus on stopping Isreal for now before dealing with Iran. Stopping Isreal may give some breathing space as far as the Houthis go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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I think it's pie in the that Hamas or Israel will stop they have the means to go on their own. Houthis also will do the same as they have been doing for years, they are using Israel as a smokescreen it a nonsense. Greek and Danish ships hit who had no connection to Israel but Russian and Chinese ships have been told they can pass. This is Houthis Iran and Russia destabilising. To sit back and let them block it and hit civilians when they want shows these states they can do what they want. It weak and it stems from Europe being week when Crimea was stolenQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby