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:agree: The same with the BBC interview (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/17943429) where he repeatedly refers to the priority being keeping the club going.Quote:
Originally Posted by blindsummit
I thought on the open market the players/Ibrox/Murray Park etc could generate more than the £11m they're talking about for creditors, unless they are guaranteed a slice of any future income (unlikely).
What is the open market, though? If Miller is the only person interested in buying those assets, the £11m is market value.Quote:
Originally Posted by millarco
Hopefully someone can help me here.
As I understand it, the assets will be 'sold' by the OldCo to the NewCo. The value placed on these assets are not market value but are the value placed on them by the buyer.
This doesn't get the best result for the creditors as they don't know if the assets would have brought in more cash by being placed on the open market.
Why would the creditors not ask for the assets to be placed on sale to everyone?
If the NewCo bid for each asset is the highest then so be it but who knows what building developer or supermarket chain might bid for Murray Park etc.
Time for UEFA or FIFA to step in here and take over this mess. They must have some power?
Fair enough with Ibrox and Murray Park, but what about the players?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
James Cook on BBC news has just quoted HMRC as saying ' We have agreed nothing '.
Ach, the whole sorry affair has just jumped the shark.
A statement in the Telegraph by Bill Miller included the line
"I respect the club as one of the world's great sporting institutions and one of the UK's most venerable football clubs.",
NOW, being a Hibby I don't profess to be the brightest, but my understanding of the word venerable is something akin to someone or something that commands respect through wisdom or by virtue of character. Rangers, by virtue of CHARACTER, after the way they have conducted their business and the subsequent mess they have found themselves.
IS SOMEONE TAKING THE P!$$???
Is this deferral not just a ploy by the SPL to allow today's events to happen, thereby allowing Rangers to slip back unscathed and not subject to any sanctions eventually voted on by the cowardly and self-interested club bosses including ours?Quote:
Originally Posted by matty_f
I would be surprised if HMRC even said that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seveno
What are they worth? Whatever anyone is prepared to pay a club that is struggling to pay its own bills, that's how much. Next to nowt.Quote:
Originally Posted by millarco
Possibly but competition can drive up the price. I'm sure West Brom were being quoted a couple of million each for McGregor and Naismith, and Davis/Goian/Edu/Whittaker should have a few teams interested in them. I guess this would all be dependent on the valuations supposedly inserted in their revised contracts, which may render my opinion a total nonsense!Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
The PFA I think still believe that the contracts are only applicable to the oldco, in which case it would be a free-for-all and we'd see how many players 'don't do walking away'.
Having just seen it all on the news sounds like d&p are waffling nonsense and all that has happened is a preferred bidder has been named
So D&P are lying. jeezus h cristos, what a parcel of rouges. They do have brazen balls of brass though I'll give them that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seveno
Doesn't he mean "venereal" ?Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales
Most of the players will probably be able to walk when the transfer window opens and the wage cut deal ends.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Even if they are not technically able to become free agents they could refuse and transfers until they were freed.
Miller is hinting at cost cutting so any of the players with a value on the transfer market will have to be released as they are on high wages.
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4
The only disturbing thing is this alleged assurance that Rangers will stay in the SPL no matter what. Most likely it was Neil Doncaster who gave that assurance. Under what authority did he give it?
In the BBC report 'portrait' of Miller, they failed to mention the dodgy and IIRC possibly illegal ( allegedly) episode with an American sports institution about 8 years ago ( I'm sure there's a link to the story not far back on this thread).
Quote:
Originally Posted by millarco
I agree with millarco; how can the £11m - and it won't be £11m by the time D&P get their paws on their cash - be the best deal for creditors, when the administrators have not even tried to look at selling the club on a breakup basis? Surely the players and Moray Park between them would attract more than that? The D&P guy said twice that the key imperative was to keep the club going. Heartily fed up tonight. Both as a taxpayer and a football fan. A black day.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Nobody?Quote:
Originally Posted by HibeeMG
Well that torpedoes my plan.Quote:
Originally Posted by jgl07
I agree with you. Seems like a stitch up.Quote:
Originally Posted by HibeeMG
alex thomson@alextomoQuote:
At least one key player say to me the Miller deal won't happen. It's desperate administrators trying to flush Miller out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HibeeMG
Mr HibeeMG,
You have answered your own question!
If there are no other bidders, then the value is determined by that best bid.
There has been a huge amount of time for bidders to come out of the woodwork.
If they don't (as has been the case) then the market value has been established.:agree:
About 100 pages ago the marketability of the properties was discussed . Ibrox is partly listed and Murray Park has restrictions on its use.Quote:
Originally Posted by HibeeMG
The assets haven't been put up for sale though. If they had been then the market value would be established.Quote:
Originally Posted by ancienthibby
Bidders have only been bidding for the club not the assets. Interested parties haven't had a chance to bid on the assets as they didn't know they were up for sale!
Can the creditors block this sale to Miller?
To add to what I said before, Murray Park does not have the value you might think, as has been said a number of times before on this thread!Quote:
Originally Posted by HibeeMG
The land on which on which it has been built does not have planning permission for houses, so therefore it's best suited for a footie club or a fairground!!:greengrin
Yeah I heard the same on the radio. . Unfit and improper ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim44
I may have missed that as I'm sure I've slept since! :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
At the time though, the marketability of the assets wasn't as important as it is now. As it is, the 'sale' of these assets to the NewCo is the only cash that creditors will see through a CVA. Wouldn't it be prudent to maximise this cash-pot by putting the assets on the open market?
Like I said earlier, if the NewCo bid is the highest bidder then so be it. If, however, competition from supermarket chains or property developers push up the market value then that is better for the creditors (you and me included).
So, it is just assumed that nobody would want to put a bid in for that land then?Quote:
Originally Posted by ancienthibby
I am starting to feel a wee bit better after seeing some of the statements coming out on rangerstaxcase and from Alex Thomson. Perhaps HMRC are still going to be the saviours of scottish football after all....
So, he (the only normal media source with listening to on this) seems to be suggesting this is already dead in the water...Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
If we assume that happens, Duff & Dumbass have already said liquidation is worth more than the BK bid. Would we see Rangers liquidated with no newco standing by to pick at the carcass?
@alextomo: HMRC (taxman) on Rangers - we have had no involvement at all in this takeover to date
There's maybe a lot of hot air being blown here but if this happens I'm done with it the SPL can rot in its own **** as far as I'm concerned
Quote:
Originally Posted by HibeeMG
Not assumed.
I have not seen a bus queue outside Govan full of bidders for Murray Park or anywhere else.
They have had more than eight weeks to show their faces.
They are still posted missing.:agree:
More from Tomo:Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Quote:
alex thomson @alextomo
Am told Bill Miller has no passport and has never seen a soccerball game, let alone one played by the Glasgow of Rangers
Quote:
alex thomson @alextomo
... suffice to say nobody in Scottish football should bet a Tennessee cent on this happening as planned
D+P pretty much shown to have been lying through their teeth then.Quote:
alex thomson @alextomo
HMRC (taxman) on Rangers - we have had no involvement at all in this takeover to date...
...That was direct quote from HMRC cleared via their lead officer on Rangers
BK would snap or attempt to snap up the oldco license and begin from div 3? debt free punishment free but with no history and an auction style race for stadium and training ground? not a professional opinion just a guessQuote:
Originally Posted by ScottB
The land/properties haven't been up for sale though. As soon as they are, you might see some showing their faces. Just the possibility that there may be competition for these assets should be enough to put them on public sale.Quote:
Originally Posted by ancienthibby
This (Bill Miller) wont happen...
Way too many hurdles - he is just looking for assets at a knock down...HMRC won't dance to his tune..
IF he were to get along the road - buying assets - do Rangers stupid fans not realise that there is no chance of 'cleaning up' Old Co.....and he would just give it ....sorry I tried ...not my fault....others wouldn't play....
Meanwhile NewCo is playing and generating money for his £11m investment and making a nice return thank you very much (thanks to an easy passage back into SPL)....Bang goes history etc etc....no skin of his nose.
I do wonder whether UEFA will view this as liquidation by back door and exclude for 3 years anyway...
As I said never going to happen - but why would they (fans) think there was any pure motive.....
If I properly understand today's developments re Bill Millar, then the assets you refer to will not be available for sale, as they will have already been sold to one Wild Bill M!!Quote:
Originally Posted by HibeeMG
In all the warm words of WBM re Rangers, not a single word about the huge number of creditors being stuffed!.
(Then, of course, there's the vast number of redundancies necessary to meet his programme of fiscal prudence!!)
Highbury Stadium had a similar designation, but it is now flats. The retention of the older part of the stadium as the entrance to the new housing development proved popular with buyers. Islington is obviously a million miles away from Govan in terms of marketability. However, the Govan area now has BBC and several independent film production and other blue-chip creative companies based in the town hall and around. One of the obstacles to the continued gentrification of the area, however, is the presence of the football club. That obstacle would be removed if the club no longer played there.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
I would be very surprised if several property development companies weren't looking at Ibrox Stadium with interest, and I've no doubt that some of them would be in a position to put in a better offer for those particular assets that Millers shabby newco.
There is also the HMRC to consider. They haven't expressed any view on those pathetic shenanigans yet, but I've a feeling they will, and they will be far less inclined to roll over than the Scottish governmental and footballing authorities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HibeeMG
What does scrap steel fetch per tonne just now ? There must be a good few hundred tonnes of the stuff in the Ibrox stands. Murray Metals could get in a bidding war with Daltons and force the price up for the creditors.
See Duff and Duffer, this administration business is easy if you act on behalf of the creditors rather than your own glory.
Can you imagine the reaction to buying Ibrox or Murray Park? The morons would probably start suicide bombing!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim44
And here it is. http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte...1/daily36.html Would this not come to light during due diligence?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
PS link not working will try again
Hope this works http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte...1/daily36.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Jim44
Having just scrolled the rangerstaxcase and Alex Thomson twitter accounts, I feel slightly more reassured that Wild Bill won't get this plan through. Thomo's interview with Paul Clark made my blood boil; sporting integrity? Ach who cares as long as the football club is saved.
However, my immediate concern is Neil Doncaster. Appears this guy wants Rangers admonished and playing in the SPL no matter what. This is where we need to put pressure on the football authorities. After listening to him interviewed on sportsound this week, I'm pretty sure he would be delighted if Wild Bill's plan got through, albeit with a token slap on the wrist. This incompetent rode into the country declaring how he would change the game for the better of everyone who wanted to follow football in Scotland and encourage new groups of supporters to attend. Well, his true colours have been pinned to the mast for everyone to see now.
His true colours have been quite clear for some time and the problem IMHO is not Doncaster but the other sheep in the SPL who seem unwilling to do anything about his 'would-be steamrollering' approach. These same sheep however also have their own greedy, self-interested motives which don't include justice, fairness and sporting integrity.Quote:
Originally Posted by moff1875
Wholeheartedly agree. The clubs cannot self-police themselves (as the SPL), and be trusted to keep the good of the game as paramount above their shareholder/owners' self interest. The sooner we adopt supporters' trusts or fan representation groups into positions of influence the better ala German model.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim44
Tuesday was the first time I'd really heard Doncaster speak on the issue of RFC administration since the SPL went into hiding to start investigating the dual contracts and concoct these financial fair play proposals. It just rankled with me more than in previous times.
I certainly recommend that those interested in this topic should listen to Thomson's interview of the administrator Paul Clark.Quote:
Originally Posted by down the slope
Again he refers to monies coming to the oldco from litigation, so he is again hyping up the court case gainst Collyer Bristow.
Plus he implies that there may be additional court proceedings relating "possibly prior to the takeover". Does he mean SDM?
"No one should be under any illusion that the tax man will be paid in full [well I never!] but Miller's offer represents the best solution."
Dodges the questions about sporting integrity - effectively, "not my job".
"Give and take in discussions with the footballing authorities" - I wonder what the SPL took from the discussions.
I do feel rather dirty having watched that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter
That's the question I would like answered !
If this is true it adds up to a total " whitewash" and the demise of justice, fairness and integrity in Scottish football.
It is almost a cheats charter !
The big question still is what part are HMR&C going to play in the final chapter ?
As I have posted before a friend is a senior official in that organisation , and while he refuses point blank to discuss RFC debt , he makes the point that after the Harry Redknapp/Portsmouth fiasco HMR&C will not be " caught out a second time " !!!
Do UEFA have any part to play in what " punishment" is dealt out to RFC ?
As for Mr Miller . Is he the true " White Knight in Shining Armour " ? If what we read tonight is correct his sporting business track record is somewhat dodgy to say the least.
There is also the problem with loss of European football revenue to take into consideration. I understand a sizeable figure was added to the
" estimated income" every season based on participation in group stages .
I for one think there is a lot more to happen /come out of this before season 2012/13 K.O :greengrin :rolleyes:
Anyone have any idea what this is about?Quote:
Originally Posted by jonty
(it was posted 3 pages ago but Matty has been asking questions since :greengrin)
Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Would you buy a second hand car from Paul Clark? He comes across as being as dodgy as any of the other Govan charlatans.
RIR Scottish Football :bye:
So let me ask this if there is a newco created, all assets moved over (players, murray park & ibrox) and are alloed to play next season in SPL that 3 years expulsion from europe ? yes? old co with debts & history do nothing until a CVA is agreed then if agreed BM moves old & new together to keep rangers history BUT would it not be the case of old joining new rather that new joining old, would they not require SPL apporoval to allow an old football club to keep it history mid season?
Assets are apparantly valued at £104 million + market value but BM can buy it all for £11million how that a good deal for the creditors? I hope they all reject a CVA n demand a fire sale of assets that bound to rake in more than £11 million?????
Personally, i`m hoping it`s Duff and Phelps stood before a judge who says " you are the most incompetent, farcical excuse for administrators i`ve ever seen in all my years on the bench. In fact, you should never be allowed to administer cough medicine to a child. Get out of my sight....oh, and by the way.....yer out, fired, emptied. HMRC will now appoint an administrator to sort this mess out. Now sod off. "Quote:
Originally Posted by jonty
That`s what i like to think it will be about.....................but i wont hold my breath.
How do you think any other administrators would have done it differently?Quote:
Originally Posted by RossHibs
Now that would truly make my day :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by RossHibs
administrators are there to protect the creditor yes?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Forget Rangers Football Club they are a buisness like the tens of thousands up n down the country who are in a financial mess, they owe over £100million + in debts and some yank coms n offers £11Million to pay the creditors 5p in the £ lets say so liquidate the buisness and sell ll assets which i'm sure would make more pennis in the £ than the yank is offering? YES/NO?
On a footballing front I mean come on by selling McGregor,Davis & Naismith would get you £10million NO?
I don't know whether today's announcement makes things quite as straightforward for the Huns as some think, but it looks like Rangers will be in the SPL again next season. That was always probable and I can understand the financial reasons for it, even if I don't like them.
What I would find unforgiveable would be if the Rangers Newco was voted back into the SPL without any attempt to amend future voting structures and distribution of tv and other income. I hope that the Monday meeting will take steps to reform the constitution of the SPL so that the Bigot Bros can't run it exclusively for their own benefit in future. The opportunity is there. Will the clubs take it? It would do more good in the long term than placing Rangers in division 3 and allowing them to return to an unreformed existing structure in three years.
You wouldn't get that money for those players now. Not when everyone knows what state RFC are in, and how little is left on their contracts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brando7
It's also debatable about the marketability of the properties. But that's not the admins fault. Nobody else has bid for them yet.
I`m no expert, i can only base my opinion on what i hear and read.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
I`ve read this...from Glenn Gibbons of the Scotsman..
" the representatives of Duff & Phelps, now widely regarded as the most incompetent administrators ever to be charged with righting a listing football club.
the administrators have, since their arrival, proved about as helpful as gatecrashers. Consultation with an array of qualified people in the financial and legal professions has confirmed that none has ever heard of a period of administration that has not produced a single redundancy.What it has brought is further haemorrhaging, to the tune of £2.5 million in the first two months of the Duff & Phelps stewardship. Now the administrators, who seem not to have complied with even one of their own “final and binding” deadlines since they took the wheel on 14 February,"
and heard this..Sportsound 4 May...the interview given by D&P at the top of the show. I cant find a link to it unfortunately. Nowhere is a good deal for creditors mentioned, only the best deal for RFC. I thought creditors came before the failing business..:dunno:
Just my opinion of course.
I hear you.Quote:
Originally Posted by RossHibs
However, I also hear (in the media, mainly) an awful lot of Captain Hindsights talking. Glenn Gibbons, that well-respected financial journalist for one. :greengrin That bugs the hell out of me.
About 180 pages ago, I reckoned that liquidation would prove the best deal for creditors. The Millar deal, which is effectively liquidation, may yet prove me right. However, D&P were right IMO to pursue a CVA, based on a continuing RFC with a full squad of players, as the first option.... to do otherwise would have been negligent. While they are not entirely blameless, the fact that one was not achieved was mainly down to other factors.
For the avoidance of doubt by the way, Gordon Smith and another guy were made redundant. :greengrin
I'm hearing that HMRC know that Oldco/Any New owner are a dead duck and are planning on pursuing SDM/CW/other RRC directors personally for wrongful/fraudulent trading under the Insolvency Act, pursunat to which they could be made personally liable for RFC's debts. Good for the taxpayer if they succeed but would be far better if they blocked this cheat's charter.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdships
all assets through liqudation would generate more money no? the squad itself be worth £11million no? just to name a fewQuote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Allan McGregor contracted to 2017 £2.5m
Dorin Goian contracted to 2014 £0.5m
Kirk Broadfoot contracted to 2017 £0.5m
Lee McCulloch contracted to 2013 £0.5m
Maurice Edu contracted to 2013 £0.5m
Steven Davis contracted to 2016 £2.5m
John Fleck contracted to 2013 £0.5m
Kyle Lafferty contracted to 2013 £0.5m
Lee Wallace contracted to 2016 £1.0m
Steven Naismith contracted to 2015 £2.5m
Steven Whittaker contracted to 2016 £2.5m
Carlos Bocanegra contracted to 2014 £0.5m
Alejandro Bedoya contracted to 2014 £0.5m
all average prices imo n that £14million before they even look at the sale of ibrox n murray park
In a liquidation, I understand that all players become free agents. Either that, or their contracts revert to the SFA. In other words, they are worthless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brando7
Even without liquidation, many of those whose contracts were re-negotiated recently will have clauses which enable them to walk away cheaply or for free in certain events.
Has anyone been given the opportunity to buy the properties as yet?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Yes, that may be. I think, though, that the point Brando and myself (earlier) are making, is that the administrators have not tried to sell off the assets (property, land and players) to maximum effect. This is purely to enable the club to continue as a going concern in some shape or form. £11m, in my uneducated and ill-informed opinion, is a pittance for all these assets.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
My point exactly. They've not exactly, actively, tried to find buyers for them have they? Where's the big 'For Sale' sign outside Ibrox!?Quote:
Originally Posted by hibs0666
Not that I'm aware of. However, now that they are "for sale", you might see someone come in with a better offer. That would really set the cat amongst the masons. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by hibs0666
spot on m8Quote:
Originally Posted by HibeeMG
so BM has effectively bought the squad with ibrox & murray pask thrown in for free, 14th Feb soon as the were in admin all players should have been up for sale with money due 1st July, that would have created more income before conditions were added to contracts
That squad would raise diddly squat. The only ones with an real transfer value could easily engineer 'free-agent' status if they wish to. Why pay Rangers a transfer fee when you can pick them up for nothing a month later? In the event of liquidation the contracts would revert to the SPL anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brando7
Whittakaker and Naismith may be in demand but there would be nothing more than nominal fees forthcoming for the entire squad. None of the other players would be of the slightest interest to anyone else on Scotland or a EPL or Championship team.
Murray Park and Ibrox only have any real value to a football club operating in that area. The real estate values are next to zero given planning contraints and listed building status.
I wonder what the SFA intend doing, if anything, to assure themselves that Wild Bill is a fit and proper person ? :cb
If NewCo has OldCo (Rangers) league share...surely they would have their 12 month signing ban...so they could not even 'sign' the players the currently has contracts for OldCo :confused:
Think we all know the answer to that: about the same as if Osama Bin Laden, or Carlos The Jackal or that Norweigan nutjob were the preferred bidder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seveno
He has bought nothing. He is the preferred bidder for the Oldco and presumably will have established or be in the process of setting up a Newco.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brando7
The players will be remain with Oldco Rangers until a CVA can be agreed. He can buy the fixed assets (Murray Park and Ibrox) for his proposed Newco.
In two weeks time the players will be demanding full wages and effectively those any with value will have to be released. That is unless Miller is prepared to give cash to the administrators to keep paying their wages in the hope that a CVA will be agreed.
Having been through an administration situation myself (no redundancies, by the way, and sold as going concern), I think different administrators would have solely (publicly at least) have stated their only concern is to recover as much money for creditors. The preservation of Rangers as an insitution is not, and should not, be any of their business.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
That plum standing in front of cameras and say "its not a tax dodge" is the same as Bill Clintons "I did not have sexual relations", except with D+P there is actually a proper shafting going on.
What i've read n heard the players be moved to the newco as they are part of the assets only thing left with the old co will be debtsQuote:
Originally Posted by jgl07
To be fair, they did say that at the very first press conference. (without the typos :greengrin)Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCarpets
I agree with what you say about the preservation of the "institution", but preservation of the going concern was always their stated first choice.
As for the tax dodge.... there never was any prospect of HMRC getting anything other than shafted, not without a nutjob with £150m rocking up. If that's a tax dodge, so is every other administration and liquidation where HMRC don't get paid in full.
Peter Clark in his interview with Alex Thomson said they had completed due diligence on Miller. I wonder how thorough that was. His alleged murky past doesn't seem to have worried the administrators. Can the SFA put a spanner in the works by declaring him not 'fit and proper'?Quote:
Originally Posted by Seveno
I think the system is still one of self-assessment. IIRC, Regan said a couple of months ago that the SFA would be more proactive in future, but I am not sure the new regime is in place yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim44
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotlan...ign=sportsound
Administrators told Blue Knights to go for newco - Paul Murray
Yep. sorry about the typos...Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
For them to state anything about preserving Rangers/maintaining their history etc was outwith their remit, and for me shows that they do not have the single minded dedication to their creditors that they should. It's the specific way of shafting everyone while seeking to preserve these vile amoral F***tards, while giving one minute of their time or consideration to preserving their repugnant past that really makes my blood boil. If they get away with it - and I agree this is still by no means certain - they will have achieved the previously considered impossible task of making them even more reviled and loathed by everyone else than previously.
But how can that be done?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brando7
It may be wishful thinking on the part of Miller.
I am not convinced that it can happen.
Do you think when they were in selective payment mode, that these type of fines got paid? April2011 Fined by UEFA
I didn't see UEFA on their creditor list :greengrin
Speaking of which, If they are granted a place in the SPL next season surely UEFA must step in? as clearly the governing bodies and the clubs in Scotland cannot be trusted.
.......and it should be the duty of the fans of the other 11 clubs to make this happen.
That would bring a tear to glass eye.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mainboy19
Let's take the jersey off the guy we haven't paid for yet !Quote:
Originally Posted by Mainboy19
I'd be surprised if they've even paid for the jersey!
There is no end to this BS!
That "great institution" deserves to be bought by an American who doesn't even know what football is.
I can just see Wild Bill in the technical area booming at McMoist : ' For Gawdsake Alsdair, will you tell that damn negro player to pick the baawl up and hurl it in the direction of our offense, I didn't pay 11 million to watch them kick it allaaawng the turf all day " !
Where are they getting the money to print out about 50,000 e-cards?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mainboy19
They're not ... it will just be added to their list of creditors!Quote:
Originally Posted by Salt & Sauzee
:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by TrickyNicky
When the Administrators were trying to negotiate the massive wage reductions, did they not argue that they had to do so because they were valuable assets that would be lost during the process of redundancy; Now we're saying they're not assets at all and are worthless? :dunno:Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Extract from James Traynor in todays rag
There is no doubt in my mind this club has suffered from the mock interest of too many who may have seen ways of making a fast buck. Opportunists all, trying to gain out of Rangers' woes.
And as a sideshow there's been the pious pap of cyberspace's nonentities. All in all this entire sorry episode hasn't exactly showcased the best of Scottish pride and spirit.
Crimes have been commited here, I suspect. Crimes against honour and against morality. Crimes, also, against Rangers and their fans.
Well, that has to be the biggest brown nosing piece of ****** I've read yet in the saga of what is the circus that is Rangers FC
Well said Two Carpets, my feelings exactly. Their vileness is growing day by day.Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCarpets
There may have been crimes committed during this "sorry episode" but I'm certain only those committed by RFC and their various owners and employees would result in a conviction in a court of law. And as for internet nonentities, they're only nonentities in the opinion of a nonentity with a very public platform. Being an employee of a public corporation he should be held to account for his obvious partisanship.Quote:
Originally Posted by poolman
Ignoring the crimes committed by Rangers...Quote:
Originally Posted by poolman
That's just it though it is. This 'law' is an ass and especially in football it is being used as a financial tool to bail out crooks.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
No offence CWG, but these financial types are taking the general public for mugs and along with MPs and their expenses followed by the bankers creating our financial crisis but stiill giving themselves huge bonuses the public is just getting fed up of all this financial chicanery.
They hide behind terms like 'legal', 'legitamate' and 'administration' but any way you dress it up it is just a way to con people out of money.
[QUOTE=poolman;3209159]Extract from James Traynor in todays rag
There is no doubt in my mind this club has suffered from the mock interest of too many who may have seen ways of making a fast buck. Opportunists all, trying to gain out of Rangers' woes.
And as a sideshow there's been the pious pap of cyberspace's nonentities. All in all this entire sorry episode hasn't exactly showcased the best of Scottish pride and spirit.
Crimes have been commited here, I suspect. Crimes against honour and against morality. Crimes, also, against Rangers and their fans.
What aboot the crime of Traynor impersonating a journalist? Should have been lifted years ago.
On a related them, all this about Rangers (and indeed the OF) being essential for the commercial well being of Scottish football. If they are serious about that, how about going back to the days of splitting the gate money? that way when we play in Glasgow we actually do get some financial benefit?
Maybe a bit hasty to assume this Miller deal is going to work out. The admins have lied about SPL assurances and HMRC blessing of the deal. They are at the court of session today, and the SPL meeting is Monday. The chess pieces are only now beginning to move.
Ignore the weegie media, it has a biased biewpoint, and as has been demonstrated all the way throughout this saga, a poor understanding of what's actually happening.
Scotsman article:
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...ewco-1-2273459
Couple of interesting things.
1. Transfer of players. D&P seem to have told Bill Miller he'll get all the players included in his £11.2M:
In my completely unlearned amateur opinion this is major league bull****. They might get away with the titles just by repeating it often enough, they might get away with the football share in the face of craven authorities and complicit spineless "competitors", (including us). However, in a world of player power and sharp agents they have next to **** all chance of making that stick with regard to the players.Quote:
“The registration rests with the club, not a limited company,” said the source. “There is a question how you define a club but, if a newco acquired the league share, it would be the club.”
The source also insisted that such a share transfer would also preserve the history of Rangers.
He said: “The football club is all important, with the actual registered company number and effective name not as important. As long as a football club stays together so does the football share, players and titles.”
2. UEFA
Haven't these Johnny Foreigners heard they have to do everything possible to keep "The Rainjurs" in business? :rolleyes:Quote:
The Uefa stance is clear and unequivocal on how it treats any newco created to shield a football team from any financial or regulatory ills experienced by the organisation from which it sprang.
“If a club sets up a new company simply to avoid paying its debts or obligations then they would almost certainly fail the three-year rule [for obtaining the required Uefa licence],” a spokesperson for Uefa told The Scotsman.
“This is to ensure clubs do not simply create a ‘newco’ and leave the previous entity in charge of dealing with debts.”
Previously, Uefa have made the following statement pertaining to newcos: “Clubs are not allowed to change their legal form or structure in order to obtain a licence, simply by ‘cleaning up’ their balance sheet while offloading debts – thus harming creditors (including employees and social/tax authorities) as well as threatening the integrity of sporting competition. Any
such alteration of a club’s legal form or structure is deemed to be an interruption to its membership of a UEFA member association and, consequently, three years must pass before a club can apply again for a UEFA licence. In other words, the three-year rule is designed basically to avoid circumvention of the club licensing system.”
Seriously, how refreshing to read some quotes from a football governing body that actually seems capable of doing some governance!
To be fair it really is not his job. He was appointed to achieve the best possible deal for creditors (whether he's doing that or not is highly debatable) and sporting integrity is actually something of an impediment to him - his job is to be interested only in the financial and commercial side. The sporting integrity issue lies squarely with the SPL and SFA and I've yet to see either of them show any interest in it. Cutting a deal with the administrators that compromises sporting integrity is a breach of their duties, but from the administrator's point of view he is acting in accordance with his duties.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Having said that, the interview did turn my stomach. His attitude is what gives accountants a bad name, but we're really not all like that.
In the CVA process that they were trying to achieve, the players were valuable. That was where the value of the business lay.Quote:
Originally Posted by BarneyK
That was the administration process. In a liquidation, they do seem to be worthless.
Speak for yourself :na na:Quote:
Originally Posted by Caversham Green