Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[SurferRosa]

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Anyone have any idea what this is about?
(it was posted 3 pages ago but Matty has been asking questions since )

Personally, i`m hoping it`s Duff and Phelps stood before a judge who says " you are the most incompetent, farcical excuse for administrators i`ve ever seen in all my years on the bench. In fact, you should never be allowed to administer cough medicine to a child. Get out of my sight....oh, and by the way.....yer out, fired, emptied. HMRC will now appoint an administrator to sort this mess out. Now sod off. "

That`s what i like to think it will be about.....................but i wont hold my breath.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Personally, i`m hoping it`s Duff and Phelps stood before a judge who says " you are the most incompetent, farcical excuse for administrators i`ve ever seen in all my years on the bench. In fact, you should never be allowed to administer cough medicine to a child. Get out of my sight....oh, and by the way.....yer out, fired, emptied. HMRC will now appoint an administrator to sort this mess out. Now sod off. "

That`s what i like to think it will be about.....................but i wont hold my breath.

How do you think any other administrators would have done it differently?

[Brando7]

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Personally, i`m hoping it`s Duff and Phelps stood before a judge who says " you are the most incompetent, farcical excuse for administrators i`ve ever seen in all my years on the bench. In fact, you should never be allowed to administer cough medicine to a child. Get out of my sight....oh, and by the way.....yer out, fired, emptied. HMRC will now appoint an administrator to sort this mess out. Now sod off. "

That`s what i like to think it will be about.....................but i wont hold my breath.

Now that would truly make my day

[Brando7]

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How do you think any other administrators would have done it differently?

administrators are there to protect the creditor yes?

Forget Rangers Football Club they are a buisness like the tens of thousands up n down the country who are in a financial mess, they owe over £100million + in debts and some yank coms n offers £11Million to pay the creditors 5p in the £ lets say so liquidate the buisness and sell ll assets which i'm sure would make more pennis in the £ than the yank is offering? YES/NO?

On a footballing front I mean come on by selling McGregor,Davis & Naismith would get you £10million NO?

[ballengeich]

I don't know whether today's announcement makes things quite as straightforward for the Huns as some think, but it looks like Rangers will be in the SPL again next season. That was always probable and I can understand the financial reasons for it, even if I don't like them.

What I would find unforgiveable would be if the Rangers Newco was voted back into the SPL without any attempt to amend future voting structures and distribution of tv and other income. I hope that the Monday meeting will take steps to reform the constitution of the SPL so that the Bigot Bros can't run it exclusively for their own benefit in future. The opportunity is there. Will the clubs take it? It would do more good in the long term than placing Rangers in division 3 and allowing them to return to an unreformed existing structure in three years.

[CropleyWasGod]

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administrators are there to protect the creditor yes?

Forget Rangers Football Club they are a buisness like the tens of thousands up n down the country who are in a financial mess, they owe over £100million + in debts and some yank coms n offers £11Million to pay the creditors 5p in the £ lets say so liquidate the buisness and sell ll assets which i'm sure would make more pennis in the £ than the yank is offering? YES/NO?

On a footballing front I mean come on by selling McGregor,Davis & Naismith would get you £10million NO?

You wouldn't get that money for those players now. Not when everyone knows what state RFC are in, and how little is left on their contracts.

It's also debatable about the marketability of the properties. But that's not the admins fault. Nobody else has bid for them yet.

[SurferRosa]

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How do you think any other administrators would have done it differently?

I`m no expert, i can only base my opinion on what i hear and read.
I`ve read this...from Glenn Gibbons of the Scotsman..

" the representatives of Duff & Phelps, now widely regarded as the most incompetent administrators ever to be charged with righting a listing football club.

the administrators have, since their arrival, proved about as helpful as gatecrashers. Consultation with an array of qualified people in the financial and legal professions has confirmed that none has ever heard of a period of administration that has not produced a single redundancy.What it has brought is further haemorrhaging, to the tune of £2.5 million in the first two months of the Duff & Phelps stewardship. Now the administrators, who seem not to have complied with even one of their own “final and binding” deadlines since they took the wheel on 14 February,"



and heard this..Sportsound 4 May...the interview given by D&P at the top of the show. I cant find a link to it unfortunately. Nowhere is a good deal for creditors mentioned, only the best deal for RFC. I thought creditors came before the failing business..
Just my opinion of course.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I`m no expert, i can only base my opinion on what i hear and read.
I`ve read this...from Glenn Gibbons of the Scotsman..

" the representatives of Duff & Phelps, now widely regarded as the most incompetent administrators ever to be charged with righting a listing football club.

the administrators have, since their arrival, proved about as helpful as gatecrashers. Consultation with an array of qualified people in the financial and legal professions has confirmed that none has ever heard of a period of administration that has not produced a single redundancy.What it has brought is further haemorrhaging, to the tune of £2.5 million in the first two months of the Duff & Phelps stewardship. Now the administrators, who seem not to have complied with even one of their own “final and binding” deadlines since they took the wheel on 14 February,"



and heard this..Sportsound 4 May...the interview given by D&P at the top of the show. I cant find a link to it unfortunately. Nowhere is a good deal for creditors mentioned, only the best deal for RFC. I thought creditors came before the failing business..
Just my opinion of course.

I hear you.

However, I also hear (in the media, mainly) an awful lot of Captain Hindsights talking. Glenn Gibbons, that well-respected financial journalist for one. That bugs the hell out of me.

About 180 pages ago, I reckoned that liquidation would prove the best deal for creditors. The Millar deal, which is effectively liquidation, may yet prove me right. However, D&P were right IMO to pursue a CVA, based on a continuing RFC with a full squad of players, as the first option.... to do otherwise would have been negligent. While they are not entirely blameless, the fact that one was not achieved was mainly down to other factors.

For the avoidance of doubt by the way, Gordon Smith and another guy were made redundant.

[ehf]

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[/U][/B]


That's the question I would like answered !
If this is true it adds up to a total " whitewash" and the demise of justice, fairness and integrity in Scottish football.
It is almost a cheats charter !
The big question still is what part are HMR&C going to play in the final chapter ?
As I have posted before a friend is a senior official in that organisation , and while he refuses point blank to discuss RFC debt , he makes the point that after the Harry Redknapp/Portsmouth fiasco HMR&C will not be " caught out a second time " !!!
Do UEFA have any part to play in what " punishment" is dealt out to RFC ?
As for Mr Miller . Is he the true " White Knight in Shining Armour " ? If what we read tonight is correct his sporting business track record is somewhat dodgy to say the least.
There is also the problem with loss of European football revenue to take into consideration. I understand a sizeable figure was added to the
" estimated income" every season based on participation in group stages .

I for one think there is a lot more to happen /come out of this before season 2012/13 K.O

I'm hearing that HMRC know that Oldco/Any New owner are a dead duck and are planning on pursuing SDM/CW/other RRC directors personally for wrongful/fraudulent trading under the Insolvency Act, pursunat to which they could be made personally liable for RFC's debts. Good for the taxpayer if they succeed but would be far better if they blocked this cheat's charter.

[Brando7]

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You wouldn't get that money for those players now. Not when everyone knows what state RFC are in, and how little is left on their contracts.

It's also debatable about the marketability of the properties. But that's not the admins fault. Nobody else has bid for them yet.

all assets through liqudation would generate more money no? the squad itself be worth £11million no? just to name a few

Allan McGregor contracted to 2017 £2.5m
Dorin Goian contracted to 2014 £0.5m
Kirk Broadfoot contracted to 2017 £0.5m
Lee McCulloch contracted to 2013 £0.5m
Maurice Edu contracted to 2013 £0.5m
Steven Davis contracted to 2016 £2.5m
John Fleck contracted to 2013 £0.5m
Kyle Lafferty contracted to 2013 £0.5m
Lee Wallace contracted to 2016 £1.0m
Steven Naismith contracted to 2015 £2.5m
Steven Whittaker contracted to 2016 £2.5m
Carlos Bocanegra contracted to 2014 £0.5m
Alejandro Bedoya contracted to 2014 £0.5m

all average prices imo n that £14million before they even look at the sale of ibrox n murray park

[CropleyWasGod]

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all assets through liqudation would generate more money no? the squad itself be worth £11million no? just to name a few

Allan McGregor contracted to 2017 £2.5m
Dorin Goian contracted to 2014 £0.5m
Kirk Broadfoot contracted to 2017 £0.5m
Lee McCulloch contracted to 2013 £0.5m
Maurice Edu contracted to 2013 £0.5m
Steven Davis contracted to 2016 £2.5m
John Fleck contracted to 2013 £0.5m
Kyle Lafferty contracted to 2013 £0.5m
Lee Wallace contracted to 2016 £1.0m
Steven Naismith contracted to 2015 £2.5m
Steven Whittaker contracted to 2016 £2.5m
Carlos Bocanegra contracted to 2014 £0.5m
Alejandro Bedoya contracted to 2014 £0.5m

all average prices imo n that £14million before they even look at the sale of ibrox n murray park

In a liquidation, I understand that all players become free agents. Either that, or their contracts revert to the SFA. In other words, they are worthless.

Even without liquidation, many of those whose contracts were re-negotiated recently will have clauses which enable them to walk away cheaply or for free in certain events.

[hibs0666]

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You wouldn't get that money for those players now. Not when everyone knows what state RFC are in, and how little is left on their contracts.

It's also debatable about the marketability of the properties. But that's not the admins fault. Nobody else has bid for them yet.

Has anyone been given the opportunity to buy the properties as yet?

[HibeeMG]

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In a liquidation, I understand that all players become free agents. Either that, or their contracts revert to the SFA. In other words, they are worthless.

Even without liquidation, many of those whose contracts were re-negotiated recently will have clauses which enable them to walk away cheaply or for free in certain events.

Yes, that may be. I think, though, that the point Brando and myself (earlier) are making, is that the administrators have not tried to sell off the assets (property, land and players) to maximum effect. This is purely to enable the club to continue as a going concern in some shape or form. £11m, in my uneducated and ill-informed opinion, is a pittance for all these assets.

[HibeeMG]

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Has anyone been given the opportunity to buy the properties as yet?

My point exactly. They've not exactly, actively, tried to find buyers for them have they? Where's the big 'For Sale' sign outside Ibrox!?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Has anyone been given the opportunity to buy the properties as yet?

Not that I'm aware of. However, now that they are "for sale", you might see someone come in with a better offer. That would really set the cat amongst the masons.

[Brando7]

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Yes, that may be. I think, though, that the point Brando and myself (earlier) are making, is that the administrators have not tried to sell off the assets (property, land and players) to maximum effect. This is purely to enable the club to continue as a going concern in some shape or form. £11m, in my uneducated and ill-informed opinion, is a pittance for all these assets.

spot on m8

so BM has effectively bought the squad with ibrox & murray pask thrown in for free, 14th Feb soon as the were in admin all players should have been up for sale with money due 1st July, that would have created more income before conditions were added to contracts

[jgl07]

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all assets through liqudation would generate more money no? the squad itself be worth £11million no? just to name a few

Allan McGregor contracted to 2017 £2.5m
Dorin Goian contracted to 2014 £0.5m
Kirk Broadfoot contracted to 2017 £0.5m
Lee McCulloch contracted to 2013 £0.5m
Maurice Edu contracted to 2013 £0.5m
Steven Davis contracted to 2016 £2.5m
John Fleck contracted to 2013 £0.5m
Kyle Lafferty contracted to 2013 £0.5m
Lee Wallace contracted to 2016 £1.0m
Steven Naismith contracted to 2015 £2.5m
Steven Whittaker contracted to 2016 £2.5m
Carlos Bocanegra contracted to 2014 £0.5m
Alejandro Bedoya contracted to 2014 £0.5m

all average prices imo n that £14million before they even look at the sale of ibrox n murray park

That squad would raise diddly squat. The only ones with an real transfer value could easily engineer 'free-agent' status if they wish to. Why pay Rangers a transfer fee when you can pick them up for nothing a month later? In the event of liquidation the contracts would revert to the SPL anyway.

Whittakaker and Naismith may be in demand but there would be nothing more than nominal fees forthcoming for the entire squad. None of the other players would be of the slightest interest to anyone else on Scotland or a EPL or Championship team.

Murray Park and Ibrox only have any real value to a football club operating in that area. The real estate values are next to zero given planning contraints and listed building status.

[Seveno]

I wonder what the SFA intend doing, if anything, to assure themselves that Wild Bill is a fit and proper person ?

[down-the-slope]

If NewCo has OldCo (Rangers) league share...surely they would have their 12 month signing ban...so they could not even 'sign' the players the currently has contracts for OldCo

[ehf]

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I wonder what the SFA intend doing, if anything, to assure themselves that Wild Bill is a fit and proper person ?

Think we all know the answer to that: about the same as if Osama Bin Laden, or Carlos The Jackal or that Norweigan nutjob were the preferred bidder.

[jgl07]

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spot on m8

so BM has effectively bought the squad with ibrox & murray pask thrown in for free, 14th Feb soon as the were in admin all players should have been up for sale with money due 1st July, that would have created more income before conditions were added to contracts

He has bought nothing. He is the preferred bidder for the Oldco and presumably will have established or be in the process of setting up a Newco.

The players will be remain with Oldco Rangers until a CVA can be agreed. He can buy the fixed assets (Murray Park and Ibrox) for his proposed Newco.

In two weeks time the players will be demanding full wages and effectively those any with value will have to be released. That is unless Miller is prepared to give cash to the administrators to keep paying their wages in the hope that a CVA will be agreed.

[Twa Cairpets]

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How do you think any other administrators would have done it differently?

Having been through an administration situation myself (no redundancies, by the way, and sold as going concern), I think different administrators would have solely (publicly at least) have stated their only concern is to recover as much money for creditors. The preservation of Rangers as an insitution is not, and should not, be any of their business.

That plum standing in front of cameras and say "its not a tax dodge" is the same as Bill Clintons "I did not have sexual relations", except with D+P there is actually a proper shafting going on.

[Brando7]

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He has bought nothing. He is the preferred bidder for the Oldco and presumably will have established or be in the process of setting up a Newco.

The players will be remain with Oldco Rangers until a CVA can be agreed. He can buy the fixed assets (Murray Park and Ibrox) for his proposed Newco.

In two weeks time the players will be demanding full wages and effectively those any with value will have to be released. That is unless Miller is prepared to give cash to the administrators to keep paying their wages in the hope that a CVA will be agreed.

What i've read n heard the players be moved to the newco as they are part of the assets only thing left with the old co will be debts

[CropleyWasGod]

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Having been through an administration situation myself (no redundancies, by the way, and sold as going concern), I think dofferen tadministrators woul dhave solely (publicly at least) have stated their only concern is to recover as much money for creditors. The preservation of Rangers as an insitution is not, and should not, be any of their business.

That plum standing in front of cameras and say "its not a tax dodge" is the same as Bill Clintons "I did not have sexual relations", except with D+P there is actually a proper shafting going on.

To be fair, they did say that at the very first press conference. (without the typos )

I agree with what you say about the preservation of the "institution", but preservation of the going concern was always their stated first choice.

As for the tax dodge.... there never was any prospect of HMRC getting anything other than shafted, not without a nutjob with £150m rocking up. If that's a tax dodge, so is every other administration and liquidation where HMRC don't get paid in full.

[Jim44]

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I wonder what the SFA intend doing, if anything, to assure themselves that Wild Bill is a fit and proper person ?

Peter Clark in his interview with Alex Thomson said they had completed due diligence on Miller. I wonder how thorough that was. His alleged murky past doesn't seem to have worried the administrators. Can the SFA put a spanner in the works by declaring him not 'fit and proper'?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Peter Clark in his interview with Alex Thomson said they had completed due diligence on Miller. I wonder how thorough that was. His alleged murky past doesn't seem to have worried the administrators. Can the SFA put a spanner in the works by declaring him not 'fit and proper'?

I think the system is still one of self-assessment. IIRC, Regan said a couple of months ago that the SFA would be more proactive in future, but I am not sure the new regime is in place yet.

[Brando7]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotlan...ign=sportsound

Administrators told Blue Knights to go for newco - Paul Murray

[Twa Cairpets]

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To be fair, they did say that at the very first press conference. (without the typos )

I agree with what you say about the preservation of the "institution", but preservation of the going concern was always their stated first choice.

As for the tax dodge.... there never was any prospect of HMRC getting anything other than shafted, not without a nutjob with £150m rocking up. If that's a tax dodge, so is every other administration and liquidation where HMRC don't get paid in full.

Yep. sorry about the typos...
For them to state anything about preserving Rangers/maintaining their history etc was outwith their remit, and for me shows that they do not have the single minded dedication to their creditors that they should. It's the specific way of shafting everyone while seeking to preserve these vile amoral F***tards, while giving one minute of their time or consideration to preserving their repugnant past that really makes my blood boil. If they get away with it - and I agree this is still by no means certain - they will have achieved the previously considered impossible task of making them even more reviled and loathed by everyone else than previously.

[jgl07]

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What i've read n heard the players be moved to the newco as they are part of the assets only thing left with the old co will be debts

But how can that be done?

It may be wishful thinking on the part of Miller.

I am not convinced that it can happen.

[seanshow]

Do you think when they were in selective payment mode, that these type of fines got paid? April2011 Fined by UEFA
I didn't see UEFA on their creditor list

Speaking of which, If they are granted a place in the SPL next season surely UEFA must step in? as clearly the governing bodies and the clubs in Scotland cannot be trusted.
.......and it should be the duty of the fans of the other 11 clubs to make this happen.