I'd be interested to know how large a part sexism and racism played in this.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was a significant factor.
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I'd be interested to know how large a part sexism and racism played in this.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was a significant factor.
You should never trust my judgement.[emoji51][emoji23]Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
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I really don’t think so. She underperformed with every single group. There wasn’t a single county in the whole US where she done better than Biden.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
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Wow that’s a crazy stat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
You have to wonder what part her relatively late arrival had in that.
An old mate of mine is not long back from a holiday in Pennsylvania and he said it was always on the cards from what he saw and heard. His cousin kept talking about the new level of stupid across there. A Puerto Rican family in the next block with a MAGA flag flying, seemingly because of the price of gasoline... He had a great holiday but he said there was a ridiculous amount of halfwits with Trump t-shirts on everywhere they went and support was growing. And of course nobody rated Harris anyway.
This has been widely discussed on the radio this morning too. Emily Maitlis said it was one of her key takeaways when she visited the States over a year ago to gauge the opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiber-nation
Definitely some sexism. People in the vox pops explaining how women aren't really cut out to be in charge. Got a whiff of nostalgia for ye olde days when Johann Lamont claimed that Scots aren't cut out to be in charge of their own affairs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
From now on, I'll never believe a single thing you ever say
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
Joe Biden, the white male? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I think that was Erdogan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim44
I was surprised to see that it’s been creeping up nearer to U.K. prices. The yanks love their cars and combine that with man made global warming denial it’s more understandable how folk voted even though there’s no real excuse to vote fascist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
Gotta look for the positives. With or without the input of Musk's gigantic engineering brain, the possibility of time travel looms. Trump and Putin will already be carving up Europe between them. It can be like 1945 all over again.
Yes, I'm sure that'll all trickle down to the ordinary Joe on the streets.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie_1875
Obamas numbers blew Biden and Harris out the park. Trump did phenomenally with black voters yesterday and had the highest votes from Hispanic for any republican presidentQuote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
What should this thread be titled now?
The once again (not soon enough to be former) president Donald Trump?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop Hibee
Gas and food prices have rocketed in America since the pandemic. This is what many Americans think of as ‘the economy’.
Biden did more to bring back manufacturing jobs and fix their creaking infrastructure than Trump ever did, but the Dems did an awful job of explaining their policies to the electorate.
The key problem is that low level wages have stagnated since Bill Clinton was in office, while most of the proceeds of growth have been grabbed by the very wealthy.
Yet America votes for billionaires. Go figure.
Average mean household income after bills grew 8.3% under Trump and 1.4% under Biden, yes outwith there control but people don't think of that. Massive inflation particularly around fuel and food. A large rise in immigration, Dems had no chance
Just re-arrange the title from:Quote:
Originally Posted by danhibees1875
(Soon to be) Former President Donald Trump
to:
Former (Soon to be) President Donald Trump
Albeit that's not exactly what she said. Hate to go off thread but the actual quote was "we're not genetically programmed in Scotland to make political decisions" and what she meant by that is Scots aren't programmed but rather have free will when presented with political choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
That’s doesn’t really make it sound any better?[emoji2369]Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales
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20% of black men, and 8% black women. He won white people and latinos, but I'm not sure I'd be calling his performance amongst black people phenomenal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donal...b00acf55d9c521
Article on what to expect from project 2025.
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America is a white male dominated country, this result is not surprising.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
Has Kamala been seen yet?
Doesn't that imply that sexism and racism are involved, Biden is male and white.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
She did worse among black voters than Biden though?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
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Is this not just grasping at straws, Trump is not who I hoped would be elected, but it was a fair democratic choice by the citizens of America.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
It does if they are invested in the market via their 401K. There is around $7 trillion invested via 401Ks, they all got richer today assuming the markets stay higher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
Eh, nobody is disputing the results and organisation of the election, simply questioning the motivation of some of the electorate. Do you think racism and sexism are fair democratic choices?Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
Who are also capable of being sexist and racist for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
All great for those invested, but the market can go both ways, how the market reacts day one after an election is hardly a trend and certainly no guarantee of brighter prospects if Trump implements isolationism.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie_1875
I'm not an expert so know nothing about this, only that ftsi is down today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
It was but democracy relies on truth and a decent media in many regards. Lies are now completely ignored and form entire campaigns. So like Brexit I'm not sure if we will ever see what I would view as a democratic election again. Democracy should be about one idea against others with the most popular platform of policies and ideas forming a commitment to the people who vote for them. We are miles away from that both here and in the USA where it is essentially a who can sling the most mud contest and who has control of social media to make it stick. We will continue to get worst humans winning elections as that and cash are simply the qualities required to win. Not sure that can last too long as Capitalism will eventually eat itself or Nature will become the most dominant force and democracy will be the least of our worriesQuote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
Totally agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by wookie70
Could that cut both ways? Harris took 92% of votes by black woman. Were all 92% voting for her policies? Doubt it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
It appears you are insinuating that Harris lost the election due to racism and sexism, from the few yanks I know who voted for Trump it was on his economic and immigrant policies. I would also like to point out Trump is a person of colour…unfortunately it’s orange :greengrin:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
Obviously i mean relatively. Phenomenal for a Rep and someonewho hasn't had a chance with the black vote. He had 13% of Black voters nationally and 45% of Latino voters. In 2020 he got 8% of Black voters and 32% of Latinos. That's a massive shift in 4 years. Black votes are seen as solid for Dems so it was surprising to see he gained so much and against a black opponent. The massive Hispanic vote seems crazy but generally they are very conservative as a groupQuote:
Originally Posted by s.a.m
I’m not disputing these figures but how do they calculate the % numbers of different demographics voting for particular candidates?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
No idea actually. I wonder if it's from polls but the paper's are quoting them as fact not a poll estimateQuote:
Originally Posted by Jim44
I guess it will be a mixture of exit polls and looking at the demographics of certain areas etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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Slap on the wrists and no custodial sentence as he’s old and a first time offender.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
J
Should be okay if he tries the insanity defence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
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Also who can communicate and resonate with the electorate more effectively.Quote:
Originally Posted by wookie70
We are in a post truth world. Will likely be decided by who has more TikTok followers in future campaigns. Next cycle in the U.K. my 16 and 13 year old sons will be able to vote. They consume media in a totally different way to me.
Long form messaging is dead. Get your word out and make it snappy.
J
I don’t think we can ever look at blocs again. People are less loyal to party and easily sold quick fixes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Eventually those fixes won’t materialise and then we are in real trouble.
That and the impending climate disaster (of which Trump doesn’t believe in).
Make money while the sun shines, fock your grandkids.
J
Are the Democrats the Hibs of American politics?
We can’t dispute Tango man’s victory and the grip he has over the majority of crazy Americans. But, despite the fact that, for the next four years at least, he will never be prosecuted for his many other crimes, and will pardon himself for the ones he has been found guilty of, he is and always will be an unrepentant, convicted criminal. For what it’s worth, I would like to think the rest of the world leaders would treat him as a dispicable pariah and let him know it. But they won’t and it’s clear already that they are going to lick his arse for the foreseeable future.
They have to lick arse. He’s the leader of the West and is a vindictive MF who holds a grudge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim44
For the benefit of their countries, they have to.
See Kier Starmer.
Expect Trump to be invited over, full state visit, meet the King and speak to Parliament. (Like Obama did).
J
I'm nothing of the kind, I'm saying sexism and racism will have been the reason why some voted against Harris. You'd be mad to believe otherwise. I guess recognising misogyny and racism might not be a strong point amongst London's finest. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
Sort of related with the rise of populism but I think people are nieve if they think Reform don't keep growing in Scotland, Reform and Tories now make up 29% in Scotland
@BallotBoxScot
·
21h
New Scotland Only Westminster poll, Norstat 30 Oct - 1 Nov (changes vs 20-22 Aug):
SNP ~ 30% (+1)
Lab ~ 23% (-9)
Con ~ 15% (+3)
RUK ~ 14% (+2)
LD ~ 10% (+2)
Grn ~ 6% (+1)
Alba ~ 1% (-1)
See what you mean, but that interpretation seems a bit of a stretch! I've only seen a fairly short extract of what she said though.Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
I agree
I don’t mean this to sound (too) harsh, but there are a proportion of the population who either don’t want to or are unable to look in the detail of campaigns and manifestos, and get hung up on the short slogans (get brexit done, make America great again, etc), and get swallowed up by the ever increasingly biased media, which parrots untruths to suit the candidate/party they’re supporting, so you get things like the Labour Party getting pilloried for accepting gifts whilst heehaw was said when the tories were in power and doing far worse. The same happens in the states, utter nonsense gets spouted by media and public figures, and people just accept it as truth, even when logic would quickly lead you to see it’s not factual.
There’s also the desire to associate one’s self with people who are perceived as winners - trump tells the world repeatedly that he’s had the biggest bestest superest amazingest rallies/bills passed/golf courses/hotels/government etc, and even though it’s demonstrably untrue, folk accept it because he talks with conviction (with forked tongue!) about how successful he is. He stands in front of the press and in courts and just says whatever suits his agenda at that moment, and he’s never challenged. So it’s taken as gospel by the people who will end up voting for him.
Can definitely see them having seats at our next scottish election. Hopefully some indy dentiment wards some people away from them but i doubt it when people are so disaffected.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Another wee glimmer of hope. UK politics 2016-2024 has been completely dominated by three word slogans, but Trump wins by a four word slogan. Long form messaging is on the way back!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
One promise I hope he keeps is to release all the JFK files, he shat it last time
I think people are often blinded by what they want to happen or to be the case. That and the ability presented by new media to surround oneself only with commentators and analysts who affirm rather than challenge a world view.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
There is a sizable support for right wing populism in Scotland, same as there is in much of the west. Anyone denying it is either not looking hard enough or denying what they see.
What I don’t get is where are the right wing Scottish Nationalists? Surely that’s the next step for some of them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
Why in Scotland does the right wing effectively mean unionist?
If the desire is to tear things down and disrupt the ruling class, surely the most disruptive thing to do is to break up the U.K.?
And just to play the what if further, would the current Yes movement be happy to get into bed with an Ethnonationalist right wing Scottish independence party. (I may have just made up this party).
J
I know plenty independence supporters I would class as right wing, particularly in their social views. Whether there is enough country wide to make any significant mark electorally is another debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
I think it's worthy of mention that a lot of dissent against the SNP and indeed slow haemorrhage of support from their own voter base started as they embraced some social policy that may have been seen as influenced by the Greens and thus a bit more radical than many wanted/anticipated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
As is the DAX in Germany.
I think there's a widely spread worry about what happens next.
I don't think it does just mean unionist. Reform will gain votes from all demographics. Immigration will become an issue in Scotland with our huge net migration figures now, lack of housing, slow rise in household disposable income it's all fertile ground for the right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
In amongst all the horrible stuff, that's the only thing I think he's said that I find interesting and quite exciting rather than ominous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4
Nobody noticed, he had his nappy on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4
Hasn't Trump more or less vowed to exact revenge on his political opponents? Not surprising if she feels like staying out of the firing line.Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Zazu
Thought this was an interesting insight from David A Green
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GbssRzmX...g&name=900x900
Thing is, the lying was what killed Johnson in the UK.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
His popularity tanked. The Tories culled him in an effort not to be wiped out.
I’m not sure we are there yet, (but we are heading that way).
Post truth, control the narrative. Move on from lies, deny everything admit nothing.
I guess it’s the type of lie. The parties at Downing Street while the Queen buried her husband sat alone really got to the public. Especially when you factor that this happened all over the country. I didn’t see my Mum & Dad for months on end. The hypocrisy holed him below the waterline.
Trump never really cared about COVID so how can it hurt him?
Same with Black lives, Trans rights, etc. He doesn’t care, so is impenetrable to its blowback. Remember when he battered that crowd then posed outside a church with a Bible in his hand. Pure theatre which appealed to his base.
Whereas the Sarah Everad protests and cops arresting peaceful woman were terrible optics for the Tories.
Like I said, we aren’t quite there yet.
J
https://youtu.be/x0eq7VNCcYY?si=rpjZsu8U3P471NJQ
This is about spot on.
Imagine the battering the Gaza protesters are going to get after January.[emoji22]Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
https://x.com/postcardstopa/status/1...dxJXScFNwz8V4A
The scale of Harris defeat here.
Dems need a lot of soul searching after this.
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Easiest way to look at it is they are the Labour Party in Scotland over the last 15 years, took everyone for granted, thought certain demographics would automatically vote for them and forgot the working classQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
They have no one to blame but themselves and need a total reset if they are clever, they probably won't though
You guessed wrong …but again a snide dig…your ignorance knows no boundsQuote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
The main reason the Dems got beat, they were the incumbents. People hate inflation. Post covid inflation made everyone's life worse whilst the incumbents were in power, no wonder people wanted change. Every incumbent party facing an election in a democratic country lost vote share this year, that's the first time since post WW2.
https://archive.is/5yM7S
Democrats join 2024’s graveyard of incumbents
Governments across the world are struggling in this period of economic and geopolitical turmoil
John Burn-Murdoch
I couldn't agree more with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Those seeking to "learn lessons" would do well to take heed.
Don’t think immigration can be separated here though. Every one of those countries where incumbents got beat had record high immigration as well. The two together are a toxic mix. Especially if it’s perceived the govt has lost control or doesn’t want to control it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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If the dems listen to this and decide they only lost because they were the incumbent, and decide to continue on the same path, they can look forward to losing the next election too. They lost because they showed complete contempt to over half the electorate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Disagree. The main factor was inflation. The economy is always head and shoulders above other factors and miles away from culture wars and foreign policy ect. Obviously other factors contributed but it was the main oneQuote:
Originally Posted by Paul1642
A correction to when I said this was the biggest swing against incumbents since the war it's actually the biggest since record's began in 1905. Obviously that isn't a coincidence as parties lost on many different policies. The right actually lost more than the left in the dozens of nations studied including the uk with the 20 point swing. Things will be tough for a few years to come so the newcomers might not seem like change.
Germany and Canada next for the incumbent losses
The next few years with ‘loose cannon’ is a major danger to world peace and his controversial appointments will be well outside the box. I give you Elon Musk, who will feather his own nest at every opportunity and, very worryingly, RF Kennedy Jnr. , who “ will be let loose on health, medicine and food, “. I believe he previously said he would let Kennedy have some fun!!!!. Imminent doctors and health experts say that this black sheep of the Kennedy dynasty is a threat to public health. Trump is a mentally deranged psychopath.
Bit on the news tonight of a meeting of world leaders in Budapest. That’s ironic as Viktor Orban is an arse licker of Trump and Putin.
I'm gonna take the OzyHibby positivity pills and think it won't be as bad as we all fear
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You lost me at ‘Ozyhibby positivity’ :greengrin ……. I think he ran a good race but the party’s over. The next four years will be bat **** crazy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Callum_62
It’s a wait and see I guess. I’m hoping that internationally he is constrained and all the real mad stuff happens domestically for the people who voted him in. That’s as positive as I can manage just now but that’s progress since yesterday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Callum_62
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
One man's wee dig is another man's attempt at humour. I think the Met's failures on racism and misogyny are pretty well documented.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
Don't tell me we're gonna be the next to be overrun by immigrants
:rolleyes:
Well your attempt at humour, I did not appreciate and it’s not the first time have thrown snidey digs when I post stuff. I find it pathetic to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
y'all ready for an invasion of Dems/RepublicansagainstTrump/etc etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
You're partial to a dig or joke yourself, let him without sin and awe that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
The short clip I saw had Starmer looking really quite laughy and jokey with Orban.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim44
I guess that in between all the serious business, these folk will probably have small talk and "get on" to an extent on a personal level.
Just looked a bit weird though, given the Putin / Trump / Farage / Orban narrative.
the Vince McMahon documentary on Netflix gives a really fascinating insight into where Trump learned his trade in campaigning - just keep the emotions at boiling point and blur the boundaries between fact and 'hyperbole' and you can pretty much do and say anything you want, if you're enough of a b******.
I think one of the factors at play has been capitalism's blindspot - the idea that people are, in the main, rational. It's bizarre that economists have been running models based on such an assumption, since marketing and advertising generally seeks to exploit peoples' irrationality.
https://x.com/ukdefjournal/status/18...dxJXScFNwz8V4A
A silver lining. Europe needs to grow up up its own defence.
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Yep and guess who is in charge of his transition team. Linda McMahon.Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentDaleCooper
Joysus.Quote:
Originally Posted by overdrive
Scunnered, disgusted, angry. It’s incredible such a man could be elected president twice. What a shameful reflection upon America, a country of 330 million people and Donald Trump is who they come up with to twice be their president. Scary times, he has vowed to burn everything down, and that’s exactly what he will do, in addition to robbing the country blind. He currently has personal debts of around $2 billion; expect the country to pay that back. His criminal cases will magically disappear. It’s going to be even more crazy than his first term, at the end of which he tried to foment a coup. What a situation.
You’re right in everything you say, but Trumps campaign fought on fuel and grocery prices and it won them the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
There was an interesting chat on LBC the other day about the celebrity endorsements of the Democrats and how that it isn’t relevant to people which celebrity backs you. Beyoncé, Taylor Swift etc all backing the democrats did them no favours because they all said “aye no bother multi millionaire pop star, I’m going to vote with my wallet”.
The democrats were so out of touch with their campaign. Harris might have been a better candidate if she’d only been nominated 3 years ago.
Correct. Trump didn’t win the election, it was more a case of the Democrats losing it. The Republicans will, superficially, bask in the glory of victory, but, I’m convinced that, deep down, 99% of them will be embarrassed and worried about the maniac, whom they have allowed to lead them by the nose. MAGA my arse, MTGA more appropriate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
Novara Media's post US election coverage has been really good IMO - Why Trump Won with Mehdi Hasan
How did Trump's plans to 'clean out the sewers of wall street'* actually go?
It's funny, because they seem to be delighted that he's going to be back in power.
'Wall Street roars to record highs after Donald Trump's historic victory'
* Or whatever his actual words were
The corruption this time around will be off the scale. I’ve decided I don’t give a monkeys so long as something acceptable gets sorted for Ukraine. It’s a long shot though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Pretty much where I am. As long as Ukraine doesn’t get shafted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
i feel more or less the same, i just hope to christ Starmer learns all the right lessons from this, and not all the wrong ones, which is very much the centre's tendency...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
They will. A Trump advisor has gone on record saying Ukraine has to accept that Crimea is part of Russia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4185
They are itching to stop the war and roll over to Russia.
J
Trump projected to win Arizona, clean sweep of all seven swing states :rolleyes: