Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

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Originally Posted by Seveno

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/

A fascinating analysis of Rangers financial position through to the end of June which will have CWG and Cav drooling all night, no doubt.

His conclusion is as follows :

' For there to be an attempt for a “Rangers” to survive, Duff & Phelps would need to sell off the assets of Rangers Football Club PLC to a buyer in sufficient time for that purchaser to organise a license to play in the SFL/SPL, and for all arrangements to be put in place for a team to start next season.
The longer Duff & Phelps succeed in keeping the doors open, the less chance there is for a new owner of a “Rangers” to get everything in order in time for preparation of fixture lists for next season, for example.
I am coming to the view that there is almost certainly not going to be a Rangers, nor indeed a “Rangers” playing in Scottish football next season (apart from the team from Berwick of course).
The best, and possibly now only way to get over the hurdles of time and potential legal challenge to any sale as mentioned above, would be for a person or consortium looking to save “Rangers” to buy an existing club, and rebrand it, moving it, ideally, but subject to agreeing rent with the owner, to Ibrox.
It appeared that Rangers may have tried this with St Mirren and there are rumours that Cowdenbeath could be ripe for takeover. We will need to wait and see. '


Now who do me know at Cowdenbeath that might be receptive to such discussions ? :cb

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I've long suspected them buying another club, Airdrie style, was the most logical route out of this, mainly as there is precedent for it...

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

From the RTC blog, the HMRC claim is for £24M of unpaid tax. Interest is due for every day it's overdue and has been comounding nicely (the EBT payments in question go back as far as 2000/01), penalties will be imposed dependent on just how much of a bunch of cheating ****bags they were.

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I had read £35m for tax, and £14m for interest and penalties.

Soon.... :greengrin

Of more interest to me is whether or not "Newco Rankgers" walk straight into SPL. If they do I can only hope that we win the holy grail because I will never attend another Scottish (SPL) football match after the final.

I work too hard to give my cash to a corrupt organisation full of self interest. Oh yes, still waiting for a statement from Hibs on our position regarding this if they go into liquidation.

Let's not get too wrapped up in the cup final mania to take our eye off the ball here.
GGTTH

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Originally Posted by ScottB

I've long suspected them buying another club, Airdrie style, was the most logical route out of this, mainly as there is precedent for it...

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IIRC Airdrie took Clydebank's place in the league they were in at the time? So assuming Cowdenbeath get promoted, then the taken-over club would be in the first division?

CWG

Thanks for your information. Excellent as always.

I just don't want to see them get away with paying a penny less to the taxman than what is due.

I've just posted off my annual tax return, doesn't need to be in until 31st October btw, but I am keen to ensure I stay on the right side of the taxman. If I don't they are down on me like a ton of bricks for a few hundred quid. Nothing like the mega millions RFC are trying to get away with.

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Originally Posted by HibbyDave

Of more interest to me is whether or not "Newco Rankgers" walk straight into SPL. If they do I can only hope that we win the holy grail because I will never attend another Scottish (SPL) football match after the final.

I work too hard to give my cash to a corrupt organisation full of self interest. Oh yes, still waiting for a statement from Hibs on our position regarding this if they go into liquidation.

Let's not get too wrapped up in the cup final mania to take our eye off the ball here.
GGTTH

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I think its a bit unfair asking that the club officially comment on a situation that they have no control over and, in reality, till something happens that may affect Hibernian then it is purely an internal matter for Rangers.

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Originally Posted by Famous Fiver

CWG

Thanks for your information. Excellent as always.

I just don't want to see them get away with paying a penny less to the taxman than what is due.

I've just posted off my annual tax return, doesn't need to be in until 31st October btw, but I am keen to ensure I stay on the right side of the taxman. If I don't they are down on me like a ton of bricks for a few hundred quid. Nothing like the mega millions RFC are trying to get away with.

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<sigh> I wish all my clients were like you.

The bill is in the post. :cb

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Originally Posted by ACLeith

IIRC Airdrie took Clydebank's place in the league they were in at the time? So assuming Cowdenbeath get promoted, then the taken-over club would be in the first divisioney ?

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If Rangers F C in administration buy Cowdenbeath to re-start their existence in the SFL they should always be referred to by all other clubs as Cowdenbeath F C to mock them forever.

Also the idea that they could somehow transfer their history to a New-Co or a club they buy is bizarre.

If the liquidated assets of Rangers F C were sold off and say Ross County out bid the New - Co for Rangers good-will ( history ) would anyone seriously believe Ross County if they claimed to have won fifty league titles and countless cups ?

If der Hun is liquidated their history is liquidated as well, if they want to keep their history let them propose a 10 - 20 year plan to repay all their creditors in full including interest.

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Originally Posted by The Falcon

I think its a bit unfair asking that the club officially comment on a situation that they have no control over and, in reality, till something happens that may affect Hibernian then it is purely an internal matter for Rangers.

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I would agree.

I would also add that putting one's views into the public domain at this stage might give "the other side" advance warning of one's position. It's often best in these situations to keep the powder dry until it's needed.

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Originally Posted by The Falcon

I think its a bit unfair asking that the club officially comment on a situation that they have no control over and, in reality, till something happens that may affect Hibernian then it is purely an internal matter for Rangers.

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I understand that. Other club chairmen (Dunfermline, Dundee utd I think) have stated their opposiiton to Newco retaining SPL status. Our board traditionally say nowt and that's OK to some extent. Meanwhile the people who alledgely matter - the fans are being asked to pay up front for season tickets etc when we don't even know if our own future is in Div 1 or SP Hell. I would simply ask RP to state Hibs position regarding the morality of Newco retaining a place IF it come to pass that Rankgers are liquidated. It's not meaningless speculation, the SPL is a big business and the paying public should be worthy of some insight into where the board are taking the club.

Also, if Rankgers were demoted to DIV 3 they would return quickly and more importantly they would be spreading wealth through the lower Divs with their massive travelling support that everyone seems to depend on for their balance sheet figures.

Still let's focus on the distraction of the cup and let all this "big finance" matters lie with those who Ken aboot these things.

GGTTH

Chris McLaughlin reporting that Bill Ng has withdrawn his bid now.

Are there any bidders left?

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Originally Posted by Green Man

Chris McLaughlin reporting that Bill Ng has withdrawn his bid now.

Are there any bidders left?

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Just the American asset-stripper. :greengrin

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Originally Posted by Green Man

Chris McLaughlin reporting that Bill Ng has withdrawn his bid now.

Are there any bidders left?

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I'm happy to put £1 into any consortium that can overcome the problem of bulldozing a listed building.

This ,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17783064
is this a Singapore sling ?.

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Originally Posted by Green Man

Chris McLaughlin reporting that Bill Ng has withdrawn his bid now.

Are there any bidders left?

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Is today, 20th April, not a very significant date in the process? I think I read on one of CWG's posts that D&F had to have a progress meeting of some sort by this date. Would that be with creditors or with the court that appointed them?


It looks like, one by one, the bidders are realising that Rangers are a basket case. I wonder when D&F will get their heads round that too

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Originally Posted by greenginger

If Rangers F C in administration buy Cowdenbeath to re-start their existence in the SFL they should always be referred to by all other clubs as Cowdenbeath F C to mock them forever.

Also the idea that they could somehow transfer their history to a New-Co or a club they buy is bizarre.

If the liquidated assets of Rangers F C were sold off and say Ross County out bid the New - Co for Rangers good-will ( history ) would anyone seriously believe Ross County if they claimed to have won fifty league titles and countless cups ?

If der Hun is liquidated their history is liquidated as well, if they want to keep their history let them propose a 10 - 20 year plan to repay all their creditors in full including interest.

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Hmmm, wonder how much they will bid for Hahahahearts. They can offer Romanov a small amount for the club and would not have any need for a ground so Romanov could then dispose of that at a small profit and get himself out of Scotland all together. Win win for the subscribers to the cheats charter

Sheesh - Is this saga still going on?

Someone shoot the *******. It's the only humane way.

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Originally Posted by CentreLine

Is today, 20th April, not a very significant date in the process? I think I read on one of CWG's posts that D&F had to have a progress meeting of some sort by this date. Would that be with creditors or with the court that appointed them?


It looks like, one by one, the bidders are realising that Rangers are a basket case. I wonder when D&F will get their heads round that too

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I don't think today is too significant, unless you're a Nazi sympathiser.

Today, AFAIK, is a statutory procedural meeting of creditors.

However, given the events of this week, it could turn out to be more than that. I am sure that the admins hoped to be able to tell creditors that they had a preferred bidder in place. Now the meeting could be a little uncomfortable for them.

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Originally Posted by DaveF

Sheesh - Is this saga still going on?

Someone shoot the *******. It's the only humane way.

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Um... humane? GTF :greengrin

Seeing as there is only one bid still standing, why can't Duff & Duffer not name their 'preferred bidder' right now?

Ng is out, but some Huns seem to think the Blue Knights are back in. Anyone know?

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Originally Posted by hibs0666

Seeing as there is only one bid still standing, why can't Duff & Duffer not name their 'preferred bidder' right now?

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The BK only "stood back" from the process. Now that Billy Ng has withdrawn, maybe Ticketus will get back into bed with them.

Does anyone actually know when the wages revert back to the their usual levels? Is it the end of the season? I am sure i had read somewhere it was until the end of April but it may be a figment of my imagination.

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Originally Posted by Famous Fiver

I just don't want to see them get away with paying a penny less to the taxman than what is due.

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There is not a snowball's chance in hell of that happening. There are only 2 feasible options:

1. They exit admin via CVA, an agreement whereby HMRC would have to accept something like £10M in full settlement of whatever they are finally owed whether that's £15M or £95M.

2. They liquidate (whatever spin they try and put on this, this is the death of the current Rangers Football Club) and their assets are sold. Since Ibrox is of **** all use for anything other than a football stadium, the usual logic is that the best value for the assets will be realised by selling them in one lump to a Newco.

As HMRC are usually implacably opposed to football CVAs and the difference in the sum available from the 2 options is likely to be not that great, option 2 is far more likely.

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Originally Posted by stokesmessiah

Does anyone actually know when the wages revert back to the their usual levels? Is it the end of the season? I am sure i had read somewhere it was until the end of April but it may be a figment of my imagination.

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End of the season according to this

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Originally Posted by stokesmessiah

Does anyone actually know when the wages revert back to the their usual levels? Is it the end of the season? I am sure i had read somewhere it was until the end of April but it may be a figment of my imagination.

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1st of June.

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Originally Posted by stokesmessiah

Does anyone actually know when the wages revert back to the their usual levels? Is it the end of the season? I am sure i had read somewhere it was until the end of April but it may be a figment of my imagination.

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Dunno, but the huns cash runs out in June.

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Originally Posted by DaveF

Sheesh - Is this saga still going on?

Someone shoot the *******. It's the only humane way.

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Shoot? Humane? nah! Hang them with piano wire. :agree:

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Originally Posted by hibs0666

Dunno, but the huns cash runs out in June.

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:agree: increasingly important this is.

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Originally Posted by ACLeith

IIRC Airdrie took Clydebank's place in the league they were in at the time? So assuming Cowdenbeath get promoted, then the taken-over club would be in the first division?

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Yup, they'd end up in the league of whatever club they bought.

Frankly it's almost as distasteful as the newco option, to kill a club to save their own rotting carcass, but as there is a precedent for it with Airdrie, they couldn't be stopped.

I don't think Airdrie even incurred any punishments for it either, so of all ways that would be the one that would truly get them off scot free. A pity the nonsensical fair play rules didn't consider this gambit.

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Originally Posted by ScottB

Yup, they'd end up in the league of whatever club they bought.

Frankly it's almost as distasteful as the newco option, to kill a club to save their own rotting carcass, but as there is a precedent for it with Airdrie, they couldn't be stopped.

I don't think Airdrie even incurred any punishments for it either, so of all ways that would be the one that would truly get them off scot free. A pity the nonsensical fair play rules didn't consider this gambit.

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But aren't Airdrie Utd just Clydebank with a different name? So any titles and history Clydebank had carry on with Airdire Utd (I know probably in name only as they are effectively Airdrieonions (sp)). Who do old Cydebank and Airdrieonions fans support?

In England MK Dons are credited with the FA Cup win in 1988 - although they did pass on the 'moral victory' to AFC Wimbledon.

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Originally Posted by Newry Hibs

But aren't Airdrie Utd just Clydebank with a different name? So any titles and history Clydebank had carry on with Airdire Utd (I know probably in name only as they are effectively Airdrieonions (sp)). Who do old Cydebank and Airdrieonions fans support?

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There was a sort of poetic justice about the demise of Clydebank as they originally tried to do that to East Stirlingshire in the mid-1960s. The club moved to Clydebank for a year and competed as ES Clydebank before a legal challenge restored the team back to Falkirk. Clydebank were admitted to the league in their own right the following season.

Clydebank tried to move to Dublin in the 1990s. I think this was vetoed by the SFL or the SFA and the club continued its decline eventually playing at Boghead.

After Clydebank were renamed as Airdrie United and moved to Aidrie, the clubs crest and name was passed on to the supporters group and the Clydebank was reformed in the Juniors, right back where they started.

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Originally Posted by jgl07

There was a sort of poetic justice about the demise of Clydebank as they originally tried to do that to East Stirlingshire in the mid-1960s. The club moved to Clydebank for a year and competed as ES Clydebank before a legal challenge restored the team back to Falkirk. Clydebank were admitted to the league in their own right the following season.

Clydebank tried to move to Dublin in the 1990s. I think this was vetoed by the SFL or the SFA and the club continued its decline eventually playing at Boghead.

After Clydebank were renamed as Airdrie United and moved to Aidrie, the clubs crest and name was passed on to the supporters group and the Clydebank was reformed in the Juniors, right back where they started.

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Are they still going? I do remember one bleak cup defeat there 20 or so years ago. Was surprised it was an all seater stadium!

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Originally Posted by HibbyDave

Of more interest to me is whether or not "Newco Rankgers" walk straight into SPL. If they do I can only hope that we win the holy grail because I will never attend another Scottish (SPL) football match after the final.

I work too hard to give my cash to a corrupt organisation full of self interest. Oh yes, still waiting for a statement from Hibs on our position regarding this if they go into liquidation.

Let's not get too wrapped up in the cup final mania to take our eye off the ball here.
GGTTH

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I think that everything that has come out of our club suggests that they will vote for sporting integrity. There is no point in making any statement until it is fully known what is left to vote on. It might not need a vote if Rangers totally disappear. :greengrin

How would we feel if they bought Hearts ? Hilariously funny at first, but longer term ?

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Originally Posted by Seveno

How would we feel if they bought Hearts ? Hilariously funny at first, but longer term ?

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Longer term would be just fine since they would move the whole thing to Glasgow. Only one team in Edinburgh but there would still be that residual rivalry when they came to town

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Originally Posted by Newry Hibs

Airdrieonions .

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:faf:

Who's this Miller guy on SSN? I don't know anything about him.

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Originally Posted by Newry Hibs

Are they still going? I do remember one bleak cup defeat there 20 or so years ago. Was surprised it was an all seater stadium!

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I believe that Kilbowie was the first all-seater stadium in Scotland (although Aberdeen have a claim).

Jack Steedman was too mean to put in new crash barriers and worked out that it was cheaper to put bench seating in.

Kilbowie was sold for development and the team groundshared with a number of clubs. When they were at Boghead they printed the name of every season ticket holder in the programme!

They seem to be going really well in the Juniors now.

http://www.clydebankfc.co.uk/2012/

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Originally Posted by Seveno

How would we feel if they bought Hearts ? Hilariously funny at first, but longer term ?

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Hertz could then be officially Edinburgh Rangers, instead of just kid-on Diet ones :agree:

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Originally Posted by Seveno

How would we feel if they bought Hearts ? Hilariously funny at first, but longer term ?

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Would they want to take on Hearts' debts though? I think they'd be more likely to target a club such as Livingston, or one of the smaller SPL sides.

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Originally Posted by Newry Hibs

But aren't Airdrie Utd just Clydebank with a different name? So any titles and history Clydebank had carry on with Airdire Utd (I know probably in name only as they are effectively Airdrieonions (sp)). Who do old Cydebank and Airdrieonions fans support?

In England MK Dons are credited with the FA Cup win in 1988 - although they did pass on the 'moral victory' to AFC Wimbledon.

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They're not. MK Dons gave the history to Merton Council.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...on/6927439.stm

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Originally Posted by Desperate Dan

Shoot? Humane? nah! Hang them with piano wire. :agree:

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From their goolies?:pfgwa

CWG / CG - your next challenge is to explain what an incubator company is, and does it mean the end for Rangers?

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Originally Posted by grunt

CWG / CG - your next challenge is to explain what an incubator company is, and does it mean the end for Rangers?

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Fuctifano.

Is this a new buzz-word? I canny keep up with that stuff.

Where's my abacus?

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Originally Posted by grunt

CWG / CG - your next challenge is to explain what an incubator company is, and does it mean the end for Rangers?

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Fuctifano.

Is this a new buzz-word? I canny keep up with that stuff.

Where's my abacus?

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Fuctifanoanaw.

The only incubation thing I'm aware of is business incubation which I believe is broadly a hand holding exercise for start-up companies. I don't know a lot about it, but it soulds like a glorified business consultancy dedicated to new companies - charge a fortune to tell them stuff that me and Crops would have said at basic charge out rates.

What's the context here grunt?

Alasdair Lamont ‏ tweets -
Bill Miller has unveiled plans for an #11.2million bid for Rangers which would create an "incubator" company that effectively works to radiate the toxicity of past administrations' sins out of the patient while the healthy heart is preserved
Bill Miller: "In order to preserve the club's history, records, championships and assets, I will put the heart of the club.....while Duff and Phelps bid to take the club out of administration through a CVA... and moves forward."
He has suspended his offer until Monday to allow other bidders to "put up or shut up".
Miller: Of the 3 qualified bidders, I'm the only 1 who refused to entertain offers from Ticketus or engage in discussions with Craig Whyte.
BM: It's difficult for me to see how any parties who were present when this awful situation was created can be a legitimate part of solution
BM After careful evaluation of a CVA, it's become apparent there are substantial roadblocks and risks associated with such an approach.
BM says as things stand, Ticketus could block CVA as the debt to them is greater than 25% of total amount owed
There is no way that Ticketus would agree to accept a "pence on the pound" settlement as has been suggested by others.
It is apparent that there will be several lawsuits that will emerge in relation to a potential CVA exit among the various creditors...and claimants (you pick them), which will need to be settled by the courts.

BM I have held a series of talks over the past week with officials from the SPL and SFA in an effort to ensure Rangers play in the 2012/13..

season without further points deductions, fines or other punitive sanctions, relating to either the terms of my purchase
...or the actions of the prior administrations, beyond those levied during the 2011/12 season.

BM My offer is contingent upon the regulatory bodies agreeing the club will begin play in the 2012/13 season in the SPL and that they will
...do so without any loss of points and with all historic titles intact. I will not acquire the club unless I receive written assurances...

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Originally Posted by grunt

CWG / CG - your next challenge is to explain what an incubator company is, and does it mean the end for Rangers?

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Just another name for a newco. It's all smoke and mirrors designed to let them whisk the corpse of the old Rangers out the back door while they bring in the tax dodging body double through the front. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by grunt

Alasdair Lamont ‏ tweets -
Bill Miller has unveiled plans for an #11.2million bid for Rangers which would create an "incubator" company that effectively works to radiate the toxicity of past administrations' sins out of the patient while the healthy heart is preserved
Bill Miller: "In order to preserve the club's history, records, championships and assets, I will put the heart of the club.....while Duff and Phelps bid to take the club out of administration through a CVA... and moves forward."
He has suspended his offer until Monday to allow other bidders to "put up or shut up".
Miller: Of the 3 qualified bidders, I'm the only 1 who refused to entertain offers from Ticketus or engage in discussions with Craig Whyte.
BM: It's difficult for me to see how any parties who were present when this awful situation was created can be a legitimate part of solution
BM After careful evaluation of a CVA, it's become apparent there are substantial roadblocks and risks associated with such an approach.
BM says as things stand, Ticketus could block CVA as the debt to them is greater than 25% of total amount owed
There is no way that Ticketus would agree to accept a "pence on the pound" settlement as has been suggested by others.
It is apparent that there will be several lawsuits that will emerge in relation to a potential CVA exit among the various creditors...and claimants (you pick them), which will need to be settled by the courts.

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Sounds similar to a pre-pack administration arrangement done in retrospect, but I can't see how it would avoid all the Newco pitfalls that are discussed at length on this very thread. It sounds like the end is nigh....

Bill Miller:

"My offer is contingent upon the regulatory bodies agreeing the club will begin play in the 2012/13 season in the SPL and that they will do so without any loss of points and with all historic titles intact. I will not acquire the club unless I receive written assurances"

That'll be him offski then. Even the super craven SPL won't provide written assurances *before* the vote, will they? So, back to Kennedy and the Blue Knights again ...

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Originally Posted by grunt

Alasdair Lamont ‏ tweets -
Bill Miller has unveiled plans for an #11.2million bid for Rangers which would create an "incubator" company that effectively works to radiate the toxicity of past administrations' sins out of the patient while the healthy heart is preserved
Bill Miller: "In order to preserve the club's history, records, championships and assets, I will put the heart of the club.....while Duff and Phelps bid to take the club out of administration through a CVA... and moves forward."
He has suspended his offer until Monday to allow other bidders to "put up or shut up".
Miller: Of the 3 qualified bidders, I'm the only 1 who refused to entertain offers from Ticketus or engage in discussions with Craig Whyte.
BM: It's difficult for me to see how any parties who were present when this awful situation was created can be a legitimate part of solution
BM After careful evaluation of a CVA, it's become apparent there are substantial roadblocks and risks associated with such an approach.
BM says as things stand, Ticketus could block CVA as the debt to them is greater than 25% of total amount owed
There is no way that Ticketus would agree to accept a "pence on the pound" settlement as has been suggested by others.
It is apparent that there will be several lawsuits that will emerge in relation to a potential CVA exit among the various creditors...and claimants (you pick them), which will need to be settled by the courts.

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Thay can't possibly work as there is nothing healthy that can be saved, certainly not a heart.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Fuctifano.

Is this a new buzz-word? I canny keep up with that stuff.

Where's my abacus?

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I think it's a wee ruse to get round the SPL rules on liquidation to be honest, but still assumes that an offer to creditors of around £9 million will be deemed acceptable.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

Bill Miller:

"My offer is contingent upon the regulatory bodies agreeing the club will begin play in the 2012/13 season in the SPL and that they will do so without any loss of points and with all historic titles intact. I will not acquire the club unless I receive written assurances"

That'll be him offski then. Even the super craven SPL won't provide written assurances *before* the vote, will they? So, back to Kennedy and the Blue Knights again ...

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Seriously?

Forgive me for being cynical, but that sounds a bit like getting his excuses in first. "I coulda saved dat club, if it wasn't for those pesky kids at the Ess Pee Ell".


Gotta love those Yanks..." radiate the toxicity of past administrations' sins out of the patient while the healthy heart is preserved"

When I take a step back from the detail of all this, I realise that there's not one of the three bidders that I would want as owner of our club.

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Originally Posted by grunt

Alasdair Lamont ‏ tweets -
Bill Miller has unveiled plans for an #11.2million bid for Rangers which would create an "incubator" company that effectively works to radiate the toxicity of past administrations' sins out of the patient while the healthy heart is preserved
Bill Miller: "In order to preserve the club's history, records, championships and assets, I will put the heart of the club.....while Duff and Phelps bid to take the club out of administration through a CVA... and moves forward."
He has suspended his offer until Monday to allow other bidders to "put up or shut up".
Miller: Of the 3 qualified bidders, I'm the only 1 who refused to entertain offers from Ticketus or engage in discussions with Craig Whyte.
BM: It's difficult for me to see how any parties who were present when this awful situation was created can be a legitimate part of solution
BM After careful evaluation of a CVA, it's become apparent there are substantial roadblocks and risks associated with such an approach.
BM says as things stand, Ticketus could block CVA as the debt to them is greater than 25% of total amount owed
There is no way that Ticketus would agree to accept a "pence on the pound" settlement as has been suggested by others.
It is apparent that there will be several lawsuits that will emerge in relation to a potential CVA exit among the various creditors...and claimants (you pick them), which will need to be settled by the courts.

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Gotta love his arithmetic too.

Total debt £134m. Ticketus £27M?

20%, Billy Boy. :cb

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Seriously?

Forgive me for being cynical, but that sounds a bit like getting his excuses in first. "I coulda saved dat club, if it wasn't for those pesky kids at the Ess Pee Ell".


Gotta love those Yanks..." radiate the toxicity of past administrations' sins out of the patient while the healthy heart is preserved"

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TBF to Wullie M, if I was bidding for RFC I'd only be interested if they were guaranteed an SPL place next season as well. It's Duff & Phelps expecting unconditional bids in the current circumstances that are the real baddies IMO.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Gotta love his arithmetic too.

Total debt £134m. Ticketus £27M?

20%, Billy Boy. :cb

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Looks like he's ignoring the BTC

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Originally Posted by grunt

Looks like he's ignoring the BTC

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...or maybe, just maybe, he knows something that we don't. :confused:

Crazy schemes of Miller continued ... :cb

Quote:

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“In order to preserve the club’s history, records, championships and assets, I will put the “heart” of the club into an “incubator” company while Duff & Phelps works to make the “sick patient” healthy through a CVA process that effectively works to “radiate” the toxicity of past administrations’ sins out of the patient while the “healthy heart” is preserved and moves forward. Once the CVA process has been completed and the patient is on the mend, the administrators will return Rangers Football Club plc to me for a nominal sum.
The healthy heart and the healthy patient (The Rangers Football Club plc) will then be reunited through merger. In this scenario, the club can continue with all of its business assets, including its history, protected from the present illness.
Thus a new corporate entity will own the club’s assets during the incubation period including all of its history.
Any suggestion that Rangers history is lost by such a process is preposterous."

---

Somebody please tell me that even the desperately Hun accommodating Scottish football authorities won't wear this pish. :rolleyes:


http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...full-1-2246439

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

Crazy schemes of Miller continued ... :cb



Somebody please tell me that even the desperately Hun accommodating Scottish football authorities won't wear this pish. :rolleyes:


http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...full-1-2246439

---

Okay, he has talked about hearts, and radiation, and incubators.

Where does he mention the cocks and anuses that follow the Huns?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

Crazy schemes of Miller continued ... :cb



Somebody please tell me that even the desperately Hun accommodating Scottish football authorities won't wear this pish. :rolleyes:


http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...full-1-2246439

---

I don't see how they can. The SPL still have to vote on proposals raised by their own board (I assume) that contravene his conditions. Giving written confirmation in those circumstances would be fraudulent.

So we have two Rangers FC clubs existing at the same time, one with the "heart", the history and the honours, the other with the debts.
Which one plays on a Saturday?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

Bill Miller:

"My offer is contingent upon the regulatory bodies agreeing the club will begin play in the 2012/13 season in the SPL and that they will do so without any loss of points and with all historic titles intact. I will not acquire the club unless I receive written assurances"

That'll be him offski then. Even the super craven SPL won't provide written assurances *before* the vote, will they? So, back to Kennedy and the Blue Knights again ...

---

Sounds like his offer is a "newco" by another name, so IMHO there is no chance of him receiving these assurances. But if he did, serious questions would have to be asked of the football authorities in this country beyond the ones already being asked....

So it'll be Miller out now, who's left? Brian Kennedy......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sergio sledge

Sounds like his offer is a "newco" by another name, so IMHO there is no chance of him receiving these assurances. But if he did, serious questions would have to be asked of the football authorities in this country beyond the ones already being asked....

So it'll be Miller out now, who's left? Brian Kennedy......

---

He's gone, as well.

The Blue Knights will be back in by Monday morning. :agree:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Okay, he has talked about hearts, and radiation, and incubators.

Where does he mention the cocks and anuses that follow the Huns?

---

:top marks

Of all your excellent contributions, this is your best yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grunt

So we have two Rangers FC clubs existing at the same time, one with the "heart", the history and the honours, the other with the debts.
Which one plays on a Saturday?

---

Andy Goram could play for both.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seveno

:top marks

Of all your excellent contributions, this is your best yet.

---

arthur askey smilie

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caversham Green

I don't see how they can. The SPL still have to vote on proposals raised by their own board (I assume) that contravene his conditions. Giving written confirmation in those circumstances would be fraudulent.

---

The SPL/SFA top brass have already shown an unhealthy willingness to subvert their own rules.

To do what is apparently being proposed by Wullie Miller would be the mother and father of the jettisoning of their own rules.

So they try and do it, what would be UEFA's stance?:cb

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ancienthibby

The SPL/SFA top brass have already shown an unhealthy willingness to subvert their own rules.

To do what is apparently being proposed by Wullie Miller would be the mother and father of the jettisoning of their own rules.

So they try and do it, what would be UEFA's stance?:cb

---

Celtic, Motherwell, St Johnstone and Hibs would not be allowed to play in Europe next season.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Andy Goram could play for both.

---

:top marks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seveno

Celtic, Motherwell, St Johnstone and Hibs would not be allowed to play in Europe next season.

---

So then, to faciliate RankHuns re-admission to the SPL without penalty per the latest Wullie Miller model, the lesser greens would have to vote themselves out of Europe??:greengrin

Fat chance.

Miller seems to be proposing that Rangers the business (the bad debts bit) stays in administration indefinitely while he cherry picks whatever assets he chooses (the "good" bits) to run the club without any penalty.

What???

Is it compulsory to be a total blow-hard to be associated with that club?

I've just spent this afternoon reading all of this thread from start to here. What a ****ing almighty mess Rangers have themselves in.
Shame really.
Just hurry up and die.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greenlex

I've just spent this afternoon reading all of this thread from start to here. What a ****ing almighty mess Rangers have themselves in.
Shame really.
Just hurry up and die.

---

:top marks

Quote:

---

alex thomson ‏ @alextomo Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Trying for SPL response - seems to take them a long time when the only possible answer to Miller is two words, second "off"?

---

:top marks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greenlex

I've just spent this afternoon reading all of this thread from start to here. What a ****ing almighty mess Rangers have themselves in.
Shame really.
Just hurry up and die.

---

Funny i have been considering this myself if nothing else for amusement factor.

Re the statement from Miller today, i am really annoyed about it. Someone earlier said do you have to be a total endbell to be associated with the Huns and i think they have hit the nail on the head. The arrogance to release a statement saying he will buy the club as long as every other Scottish football fan rolls over and takes one in the tradesmans is horrendous.

I dont think the guy has a real handle on things at all if he honestly thinks he can leave the toxic debt (as it's now known) in one company and transfer the football club into another and just carry on as if nothings has happened is bizarre at best.

Also, does he just expect UEFA to say "Yes Sir Mr Miller"? I think they will be mightily upset with Der Hun especially with them owing over 1mil to Rapid after having selling Jellyd**k already.

EDIT: For reasons of humour i have kept a close eye on The Bears Den since all this kicked off and the pace at which they change their mind as fans is as hilarious as the naivety of the situation.

Week 1 - I want TBK koz Murray is a pure bear with the club interests at heart.
Week 1 day 2 - That W**K Murray, i dinnae want him neer the peoples club and ticketus can da wan and all
Week 2 - Bill Ng, never heard ay him but hes got heaps o money so he must be one of the people
Week 2 day 2 - That Yank can dae wan an all, winding us up i''ll chib him if i see him.
Week 3 - Wat Bills pulled out here hing on whits that yank saying oh right hes gonna save us and he has heaps o money he must be wan ae the people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

:top marks

---

We need to make this man an honorary Hibby.

Maybe even vote him the Player of the Year.

Administrators admit that Miller has had talks with the football authorities regarding his takeover !. This from sportsound a few minutes ago, wonder if Doncaster is going to let them straight back in ?.

Appointment of insolvency specialists BDO imminent. Apparently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaiser1962

Appointment of insolvency specialists BDO imminent. Apparently.

---

Now, that would be one gigantic embarasment for Duffest and Helpless.:greengrin

Roll on!:agree:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by down the slope

Administrators admit that Miller has had talks with the football authorities regarding his takeover !. This from sportsound a few minutes ago, wonder if Doncaster is going to let them straight back in ?.

---

It's not up to him.

And, talks could be:-

"let us in"

"naw"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaiser1962

Appointment of insolvency specialists BDO imminent. Apparently.

---

I used to work for them, in Guernsey. Played fitba against Matt Le Tissier's wee bro. I say "played", I really just admired him from afar.

Tweeted by Phil Mac:

@Pmacgiollabhain: Why have Insolvency firm BDO sent employees an urgent email asking if anyone has a conflict of interest with Rangers. Imminent appointment?

His proposals will never get of the ground. Surely the SPL/ SFA are not that weak

It's going to be so disappointing when this thread is over. I come home from work every night and know that although I don't have sky, I'm still guaranteed "Comedy Gold" .... Priceless Stuff :greengrin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ancienthibby

Now, that would be one gigantic embarasment for Duffest and Helpless.:greengrin

Roll on!:agree:

---

Not sure that it is an embarrassment to them, TBH. Happens all the time..... admins are appointed, fail to save the business, admins move out, liquidators move in.

Won't be the first time it's happened to them, and won't be the last.

Miller's statement had me raging for a while, full of such arrogant, ignorant pash. Who they hell is he to hold a gun to the heads of the authorities and the other clubs? How can he completely ignore HMRC and even agent Whyte? What about the licencing issues?

Now I'm thinking he'd make the perfect Rankgers owner. Arrogant, dictatorial, imperialist, ignorant, dumb as a bag of spanners etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LeithenHibby

It's going to be so disappointing when this thread is over. I come home from work every night and know that although I don't have sky, I'm still guaranteed "Comedy Gold" .... Priceless Stuff :greengrin

---

Said it before, LH.... this is just the support act for the main gig.

Now that we are all well-versed in "teams that go pop", just wait until it's "their" turn.

So .... best guesses and personal opinions ... what is likely to happen if / when liquidators are appointed? Is this just sounded one out in case they are needed?

Just when you think that even Huns must have a shred of decency and desist from engaging in puerile self-fulfilment, the campaign to make sure that the big hoose staise open plumbs new depths. What really sickens me is the disgraceful coverage of this affair by the Laptop Loyal and their non-print counterparts. Surely, some segment of the Fourth Estate has got to break cover and admit the Emperor has no clothes, nor has he had any for some considerable time. Although, I'll be the first to admit football isn't my raison d'etre: the conduct of the media, with some notable exceptions fails to inspire a positive view of civic society in contemporary Scotland I am not for one minute equating Glasgow Rangers and Scotland as a whole. However, if the media can't properly hold to account the nations supposedly premier sporting institution, then what price democracy!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by calmac12000

Just when you think that even Huns must have a shred of decency and desist from engaging in puerile self-fulfilment, the campaign to make sure that the big hoose staise open plumbs new depths. What really sickens me is the disgraceful coverage of this affair by the Laptop Loyal and their non-print counterparts. Surely, some segment of the Fourth Estate has got to break cover and admit the Emperor has no clothes, nor has he had any for some considerable time. Although, I'll be the first to admit football isn't my raison d'etre: the conduct of the media, with some notable exceptions fails to inspire a positive view of civic society in contemporary Scotland I am not for one minute equating Glasgow Rangers and Scotland as a whole. However, if the media can't properly hold to account the nations supposedly premier sporting institution, then what price democracy!

---

Why, what's happened now?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Newry Hibs

So .... best guesses and personal opinions ... what is likely to happen if / when liquidators are appointed? Is this just sounded one out in case they are needed?

---

I think you may be right on the "sounding out". It's not really up to the admins to appoint a liquidator; that's up to the creditors. However, there's always a bit of "phoney war" going on beforehand.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

I think you may be right on the "sounding out". It's not really up to the admins to appoint a liquidator; that's up to the creditors. However, there's always a bit of "phoney war" going on beforehand.

---

Out of interest CWG what will happen to you if/when the news that liquidators are called in and this sorry mess starts drawing to a close?

:cb

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stokesmessiah

Out of interest CWG what will happen to you if/when the news that liquidators are called in and this sorry mess starts drawing to a close?

:cb

---

1. I will be able to work and eat again.

2. I will be in training, and in a constant state of readiness for the next (maroon) chapter in "Scottish Football.... when the shecht hit the fans".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

1. I will be able to work and eat again.

2. I will be in training, and in a constant state of readiness for the next (maroon) chapter in "Scottish Football.... when the shecht hit the fans".

---

Any chance of Number 2. happening before May 19th. It would save untold stress on a lot of aging Hibbies, :greengrin

They're beginning to crumble over on FF. There's usually a stubborn, united, 'wha's like us', we arra' people attitude but some of the posts would make a glass eye greet.

Were all hurting right now, but the worst thing is, there is nothing that any of us can do.
The future of our Club now lies in the hands of the Admin and the Bidders. Which is a scary and terrifying thought.
Although, if we do go NewCo, then I WANT to play in Div 3, I dont want to be anywhere near the SP-****ing-L!
I reckon a lot of grown men will be reduced to tears in the days ahead, and im one of them.

I share you pain dude. Desperate times, our club has been systematically destroyed from within and from without. The club is now on it's knees awaiting the final bullet that will put it out of it's misery. I could cry.

That my 3 children won't know what it means to love and support my Rangers, that hurts me immeasurably.
We are all in the same boat.
The Rangers we all love is dying on life support and the wrong people are deciding whether or not to turn off the life support machine.
I'm trying to keep calm and keep my emotions in check but even writing this I can feel a few tears coming on.
I feel sick and disgusted.
I hope Murray, Whyte and all the "yes men" rot in hell.
Really do think the end is near.

When the dust settles and we come out of this the other side, no matter what state were in were all going to have to look at this situation very closely.
Yeah, Whyte, Murray and D&P will bear the brunt of our anger and rightly so, however, we will also have to take a look at ourselves as a support, myself included.
We could have done more, much much more and we didnt. And that is my biggest regret out of all of this, I didnt do enough, I didnt do anything. I thought we were too big to have any great harm come to us, I thought someone would have saved us.
I was wrong.

How can we come back from liquidation fighting? This isn't a video game where you have infinite lives. Liquidation = Death of Rangers!


.......................... and that's just a few of the optimistic ones. :greengrin

So to catch up, the Huns support don't do walking away. Unless they are Brian Kennedy, Blue Knights or Bill Ng.

And these two posts just made my day :thumbsup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaiser1962

Appointment of insolvency specialists BDO imminent. Apparently.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by green glory

Tweeted by Phil Mac:

@Pmacgiollabhain: Why have Insolvency firm BDO sent employees an urgent email asking if anyone has a conflict of interest with Rangers. Imminent appointment?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jim44

They're beginning to crumble over on FF. There's usually a stubborn, united, 'wha's like us', we arra' people attitude but some of the posts would make a glass eye greet.

Were all hurting right now, but the worst thing is, there is nothing that any of us can do.
The future of our Club now lies in the hands of the Admin and the Bidders. Which is a scary and terrifying thought.
Although, if we do go NewCo, then I WANT to play in Div 3, I dont want to be anywhere near the SP-****ing-L!
I reckon a lot of grown men will be reduced to tears in the days ahead, and im one of them.

I share you pain dude. Desperate times, our club has been systematically destroyed from within and from without. The club is now on it's knees awaiting the final bullet that will put it out of it's misery. I could cry.

That my 3 children won't know what it means to love and support my Rangers, that hurts me immeasurably.
We are all in the same boat.
The Rangers we all love is dying on life support and the wrong people are deciding whether or not to turn off the life support machine.
I'm trying to keep calm and keep my emotions in check but even writing this I can feel a few tears coming on.
I feel sick and disgusted.
I hope Murray, Whyte and all the "yes men" rot in hell.
Really do think the end is near.

When the dust settles and we come out of this the other side, no matter what state were in were all going to have to look at this situation very closely.
Yeah, Whyte, Murray and D&P will bear the brunt of our anger and rightly so, however, we will also have to take a look at ourselves as a support, myself included.
We could have done more, much much more and we didnt. And that is my biggest regret out of all of this, I didnt do enough, I didnt do anything. I thought we were too big to have any great harm come to us, I thought someone would have saved us.
I was wrong.

How can we come back from liquidation fighting? This isn't a video game where you have infinite lives. Liquidation = Death of Rangers!


.......................... and that's just a few of the optimistic ones. :greengrin

---

Heartwarming, uplifting, life-enhancing post. ****in brilliant, every last word of it. :thumbsup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jim44

They're beginning to crumble over on FF. There's usually a stubborn, united, 'wha's like us', we arra' people attitude but some of the posts would make a glass eye greet.

Were all hurting right now, but the worst thing is, there is nothing that any of us can do.
The future of our Club now lies in the hands of the Admin and the Bidders. Which is a scary and terrifying thought.
Although, if we do go NewCo, then I WANT to play in Div 3, I dont want to be anywhere near the SP-****ing-L!
I reckon a lot of grown men will be reduced to tears in the days ahead, and im one of them.

I share you pain dude. Desperate times, our club has been systematically destroyed from within and from without. The club is now on it's knees awaiting the final bullet that will put it out of it's misery. I could cry.

That my 3 children won't know what it means to love and support my Rangers, that hurts me immeasurably.
We are all in the same boat.
The Rangers we all love is dying on life support and the wrong people are deciding whether or not to turn off the life support machine.
I'm trying to keep calm and keep my emotions in check but even writing this I can feel a few tears coming on.
I feel sick and disgusted.
I hope Murray, Whyte and all the "yes men" rot in hell.
Really do think the end is near.

When the dust settles and we come out of this the other side, no matter what state were in were all going to have to look at this situation very closely.
Yeah, Whyte, Murray and D&P will bear the brunt of our anger and rightly so, however, we will also have to take a look at ourselves as a support, myself included.
We could have done more, much much more and we didnt. And that is my biggest regret out of all of this, I didnt do enough, I didnt do anything. I thought we were too big to have any great harm come to us, I thought someone would have saved us.
I was wrong.

How can we come back from liquidation fighting? This isn't a video game where you have infinite lives. Liquidation = Death of Rangers!


.......................... and that's just a few of the optimistic ones. :greengrin

---

I know some people would take a charitable view and have some sympathy, but after years of being shafted by the manky biogts, i feel nothing but schaedenfreude. I remember all the times walking down Easter Road having abuse hurled at me by their "fans". The world will be well rid of them.