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Does he ever come out of it well? He bumbles his way through every interview. Yet, you'll never see that mentioned and splashed over the front pages of newspapers. They have more pressing matters, like what colour of tie Jeremy Corbyn is wearing, or some tory quote about how obsessed the SNP are with independence.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
The spending figures are all over the place.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
I’ll wait for the manifestos before commenting too much but wow Labour seem to have gone from tax n spend to just spend. £150bn for this, £60bn for that and then there is the cost of all the renationalisations...it really does look completely made up but as I said let’s see the manifesto’s afore getting into it too deep.
I take it you only read the Mail and the Telegraph then .:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
The Daily Mail, The Telegraph, The Sun, The "Scotsman", The Express, The Times... take your pick.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
Even the papers that claim to be more left-wing are too "moderate" to hit the tories where it hurts.
I asked you this earlier but I think you missed it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
What's your source for this? Thanks.
It's probably not true, let's face it both Fife and Maybes got it wrong, the constituency is Dunbartonshire East :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
Apparently the Tory MP there told Jo Swinson that they believe she'd make a better PM than Boris Johnson. Not something you'd think they'd say if they weren't going to stand aside (at least, unofficially) - https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...ative-20825366Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
Not really surprising though. Both the tories and the Lib Dems in East Dunbartonshire have worked hand in glove to over rule the SNP administration there in order to screw over council workers - https://www.kirkintilloch-herald.co....ting-1-4645400
Another piece of blairite trash outs himself as being a tory all along. - https://news.sky.com/story/general-e...votes-11856077
Which is where the story falls down. At this moment in time (from midnight on Tuesday) there are no MPs. But aside from that there hasn't been a Tory MP in Dunbartonshire East since 1974 and that was before the existing constituency was created. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
EDIT: Just read the Mirror link (YEUGH!!) and nowhere does it say a Tory is stepping aside to allow Jo Swinson a clear run?!
That's irrelevant. They'll still be people there that vote tory and by "unofficially" taking a back seat and not bothering to really campaign, they're effectively handing the votes over to Jo Swinson.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
I'm not saying they don't have a right to do that. I'm just using it to highlight the cozy relationship both parties have there.
[QUOTE]:confused: The MP in her constituency is Jo Swinson, not a Tory. There is no mention of the other candidate in that article. She does claim that MPs from both Labour and the Tories have privately told her she would make a better PM. Again, no mention of where they are from but they wont be standing against her. Your second headline is totally unrelated to my question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
So again, what is your source for this because it clearly isn't this article. Where did you hear this?
So not the Tory 'candidate' but tory voters talking about tactical voting!!! That's a lot different toQuote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
At the last election I know LibDems who actively campaigned for the Conservative candidate in Perth and North Perthshire, which is different to the LibDems not putting a candidate up.Quote:
I'm hearing that the tories are to step aside in East Dumbartonshire to help out their ally Jo Swinson
I am hoping the Scottish Greens don't field a candidate here because I don't want to be in the position of campaigning for one candidate and voting for another :wink:
I had a feeling in my water that Fife-Hibee's story wouldn't stand up to scrutiny. Its like the Fife-Hibee show on here as he jumps around shouting down anything he doesn't agree with as 'fake news' but expects his posts to be held up as truth sincere. Its spoiling what could be a decent forum. Better all round if he'd calm down and respect other peoples posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
[QUOTE=marinello59;5983380]The proof will be in the outcome when the tory candidate gets single figure votes. Obviously I can't "prove" something that's never going to be made openly official.Quote:
:confused: The MP in her constituency is Jo Swinson, not a Tory. There is no mention of the other candidate in that article. She does claim that MPs from both Labour and the Tories have privately told her she would make a better PM. Again, no mention of where they are from but they wont be standing against her. Your second headline is totally unrelated to my question.
So again, what is your source for this because it clearly isn't this article. Where did you hear this?
But if you seen my second link which you automatically wrote off, you'd get an idea of the kind of relationship the Lib Dems have with the Tories in that constituency to beat down on hard working people.
That's happened to him twice in quick succession! :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
So you haven't actually heard it from anywhere, you just made it up. Cheers for the response.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
The proof of the thing that's going to happen is something that can't happen if the thing that's going to happen happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
Of course I have. I know people that live in that constituency and they're all telling me the same thing. Quit acting like it isn't a thing, just because they don't make it an official news story.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
So you have moved from a news story that proved nothing to now knowing people who live in that constituency who all have inside knowledge of this? Okay, sounds plausible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
At best you were passing hearsay off as fact, something you were critical of Christine Jardine doing just last week.
:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
They don't require "inside knowledge". They all know who they're going to vote for themselves and why.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
That’s a world away from the Tory candidate standing aside then. Like I said, you made it up. I’ll leave it there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
Which reminds me, did Fife-Hibee get the photos of Christine Jardine at her office the other Friday?Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
Too busy canvassing the 7,500 Tory voters in East Dunbartonshire about ‘standing aside’ obviously!Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Following Tom Watson's resignation ('personal rather political' he claims, but in reality precisely timed to derail Corbyn) ex-Labour MPs now pledging to vote Tory to keep Corbyn out:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9190421.html
Jewish Chronicle front page today:
https://www.thejc.com/comment/leader...izens-1.491812
Not Lib Dem, or Green, or any other party. But the tories.Quote:
Originally Posted by G B Young
I think if I remember rightly it was to take photographs of the office without Christine Jardine in it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
I noticed a lot of Lib Dem posters and signs up around the constituency today. I think she'll be voted back in to be honest although I don't know what the latest polling is.
They're desperate to stop Corbyn and the tories are the only party that will do that so its obvious why.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
Labour are in complete chaos. Our biggest hope is that the Lib Dems will have a very good GE and sweep up a vast number of the remain seats that won't vote for Corbyn.
Imagine standing as a Labour MP, getting elected on a Labour ticket. Then abandonning the party and advocating that people vote tory, claiming "anti-semitism" as the reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankhfc
It would seem that people like Mr Austin thinks that Islamaphobia is perfectly ok then, as it's rife within the Conservative Party.
I'm sure it has nothing at all to do with the fact the Corbyn refuses to pander to Israeli lobbyist and that Mr Austin recieves income streams from the Israeli Knesset, the Israeli Ministry of Jerusalem & Heritage, the Australia Israel cultural exchange, Sir David Garrard (Israeli Lobbyist) and that other Israeli Lobbyist Sir Trevor Chinn.
Nope, nothing to see here.
I'm no Labour fan so can't argue either for or against what you've said. It doesn't look good to the electorate though and as I've said before I think Labour are in for a bit of a doing. Could be wrong but whatever happens I hope the Lib Dems and other progressive parties take up the slack if Labour does as badly as predicted to stop an outright tory majority.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
Corbyn is on no way anti-Semitic but he failed to deal with those in his party who are. All they can do is damage limitation on this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankhfc
It was. Which is why I have to question the absence of the photos 🤔Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankhfc
Sounds spot on. I've not heard anybody call Corbyn himself anti-Semitic but its very hard to deny there is a problem and its caused huge division within the ranks as shown by those who're now so fed up with Corbyn's handling of it that they're now willing to vote not just against Labour but side with the tories. Very damaging stuff. We can only hope the electorate don't go the same way and vote for the progressives instead of the tories.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
It was a rash comment and one that Fife-Hibee probably regrets making. No harm done.
Whether he is or not, it's an issue which he continually comes up against, years after it first surfaced. It's seen another Labour candidate forced to resign tonight:Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-50338256
As an aside, what is that bit at the end of the story all about? What's the relevance of spraying Joanna Cherry with bleach?
"Another Labour candidate, Frances Hoole was earlier dropped in Edinburgh South West. The party refused to endorse Ms Hoole after she posted an image on social media of her SNP rival, Joanna Cherry, being targeted with a bleach spray."
The explanation, and image, are in this story.Quote:
Originally Posted by G B Young
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18009156.labour-candidate-apologises-joanna-cherry-threat-tweet/
Austin was on the C4 news earlier and was asked if he was happy about the pillar boxes comments from Johnson. Quite astonishingly, he said that what Boris had actually been doing was standing up for Muslim woman’s rights with that comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
Seems the no tory in E Dunbartonshire was right after all...
https://twitter.com/TheProleStar/sta...443915264?s=20
It won't be. They just haven't found a candidate yet. They're not exactly overburdened with prospective candidates in most of Scotland. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by southfieldhibby
That's a screenshot from Wikipedia.Quote:
Originally Posted by southfieldhibby
This is how it looks today, with a full week to go before candidate registration closes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_D..._constituency)
Now that the website is running again.
Yougov polls
Wales
Westminster voting intention in the WALES (31 Oct - 4 Nov)
Lab - 29% (-20 from GE2017 result)
Con - 28% (-6)
Brexit Party - 15% (+13 on UKIP GE2017)
Plaid Cymru - 12% (+2)
Lib Dem - 12% (+7)
Green - 3% (+3)
https://t.co/0LPtXVCDTX https://t.co/M0E84vmRxv
Scotland
Westminster voting intention in the SCOTLAND (23-25 Oct)
SNP - 42% (+5 from GE2017 result)
Con - 22% (-7)
Lib Dem - 13% (+6)
Lab - 12% (-15)
Brexit Party - 6% (+6 on UKIP GE2017)
Green - 4% (+4)
https://t.co/0LPtXVCDTX https://t.co/MH4zQl5MCV
All across England tories are down, Labour down more, libdems and Brexit looking to sweep up the votes.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...1ffb232b09.jpg
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Beat you 😁Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
And they have a candidate showing there now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Currently a Councillor for Bearsden. Must have been really annoyed with the libdems to have the audacity to not stand aside for Jo Swinson 😉Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
Don't know if anyone saw QT last night, but Barry Gardiner had Hamza Useless on toast. The guy is a definite weak link for the SNP.
Otherwise, I was proud of the quality of the debate and contributions from the audience. A million miles from the monosyllabic contributions when the programme is broadcast from Oop Nath.
Special mention has to go to the Tory mouthpiece, although she soldiered on she kept getting caught, I thought she was going to burst into tears at one point.
Her puss was tripping her through the whole programme. Loved when she said "Boris cares for Scotland" and the whole audience started pishing themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataplana
Didn't think Hamza did too badly but his constant interruptions got on my nerves a bit.
I didn't think much of the guy Anderson, businessman, he seemed to lose track of the point at times. I think Angela haggerty came across well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataplana
Does the SNP get to choose who goes on? They have a lot of depth but it always seems to be the marmite types like Humza (either people like him or can't stand him) or ones like Fiona Hyslop who is usually a bit crap on those type of shows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudSquall
I've no idea how the panels are selected but....
https://twitter.com/GeoffLeyshon/status/1192590415196803072?s=19
He tries too hard to play the politician. People would be much warmer towards him and those like him if the made their points without talking g over and interrupting others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
I thought he was unnecessarily abrasive and I found myself liking the people whose standpoint I don't necessarily agree with (Barry Gardiner for example) a lot more than Yusuf whose standpoint I do agree with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
He was too quick to interrupt and shout over people when they were better left in peace to talk nonsense and go a long way towards beating themselves before he could join in and finish the job.
Why have the Greens put one in an SNP target, ridiculousQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Interesting snapshot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Snp doing fine with the tories losing ground as expected and the Lib Dems increasing their share.
Its Labour that's deep in the dug kite. If that's reflected across the UK they're in for a hard night come the GE.
Polls have been known to get it wrong lately but its looking grim for Labour.
Maybe after Jo proudly confirmed she'd launch the nukes they will pick up the Lib Dem vote instead, we can only hope :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Diclonius
I'm of the same opinion. I think that they are putting up 22 candidates.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diclonius
I will vote snp at Westminster and green at Scottish and council elections until independence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankhfc
Take a look at my post before oz. It takes you to the Yougov twitter and you can see how bad Labour are doing in England.
Just had a look mate thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Its extremely grim, worse than even I thought. They could also easily lose much of Wales which has almost always been their stronghold. A party in crisis no doubt about it.
It's not just me that is questioning the green strategyQuote:
Originally Posted by Diclonius
http://bright-green.org/2019/11/08/unite-to-remain-will-do-more-harm-than-good/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
If they were to take 12% in Scotland it would be the worst result for Labour in Scotland in 100 years.
In Scotland I just can't see where they will pick up votes from outside of those who hardcore believe in Corbyn's vision for the UK, unionists are going to vote for the Tories or Lib Dems, remainers will vote SNP or Lib Dem.
Davidson squeezed them on the indepdendence question, the SNP has squeezed them from the left, and I don't think anyone outside of those who take a strong interest in politics would know who Richard Leonhard actually is.
Completely screwed in other words.
Looking good, but let's not be complacent Indy fans, we still need to get out and vote. Especially where tactical voting between the newly formed parties of Condems/labory/labdems are all about keeping Scotland to heel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
A decent summary.Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudSquall
Labour are completely irrelevant in Scotland now. Its looking likely they're going to lose ground in both England and Wales also. They're fast disappearing up their own behinds which is sad to see as they're a party that has done many good things in the past but are virtually unelectable in their present state and even a change of leader wouldn't solve all of their deep rooted problems.
Who is this Richard Leonard you speak of? Is this a fabled norse god or some fictional superhero like the green lantern?Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudSquall
The problem I see for Labour us that they don't seem to have any defined stance on very much at the moment. Brexit, sit in the fence. Indyref2 Leaned says one thing and the London head office say another. Their fiscal figures for government look completely made up with billions of pounds being plucked out if thin air. It is sad as in an independent Scotland a Labour party would probably have got my vote. Just can't see them as credible thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by Frankhfc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
he's going to be our next first minister
source: richard leonard
I was calling him Richard Lionheart for about 6 months until I realised that's actually a 12th century English King :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Funny, someone called Jo Swinson thinks she is the next prime minister.Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
Methinks neither are right. 😁
Whats the sit on the fence? Get in, negotiate a deal, put that deal to a vote. Its pretty clear cut.Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
I think Labour won’t do as bad down south as they will here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankhfc
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Agree with you on all of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by weecounty hibby
Labour would bankrupt Scotland in a very short time indeed. They're the party of total fiscal irresponsibility and wanton profligacy. They're on a downward spiral thankfully.
He’s an absolute gift for the SNP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
I can’t think of any political leader as uninspiring in my lifetime. I doubt half the population of Scotland could tell who he was.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
surprised she omitted that from her own personal battle bus
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIrYeFFW...jpg&name=small
They won't but it isn't that difficult a target as they're virtually non-existent and largely irrelevant up here now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
kristene hair wearing a bluetooth earpiece during QT last night......wonder what she needed that for, she did appear quite robotic at times, staring into space as well :agree:
SNP gain.Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
It is very clear but unfortunately can't be put into a 3-word slogan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalianwanda
Get Brexit Done
Not For Sale
Bollocks To Brexit
Most of this election is politics for four-year-olds.
I give you the Tory “money tree”.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankhfc
J
With some senior figures campaigning to remain and against the deal they have just negotiated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalianwanda
Perfectly clear.
That wasn’t the impression I got, I thought Hamza came across very well. Gardiner trying to bring up the Salmond court case was despicable imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataplana
Since nobody has got his name right yet, it's Humza Yousaf :greengrin
I actually googled it and still got it wrong. :doh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Grieves
Do Or Don’t?Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
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Yes, watched QT last night and I found her manner very strange. Her face was expressionless and she seemed detached from reality - even more so than tories are generally. Was quite funny when she proclaimed Boris cares deeply about Scotland and most of the audience p1shed themselves laughing :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
A change of leader may not solve all labours problems but it will rid them of having a leader who is unelectable. It's looking bleak for them and it will only be our Nigel's party polling better than the polls suggest that will stop Johnson getting a majority. Mind you if it's all about brexit then Johnson will not get a majority as I've a feeling more and more folk are realising that leave only have downsides. Will be such a tricky result to call and hopefully johnson falls a few seats short. I suspect he will probably miss out by ten to fifteen and with the dup likely to lose a few seats the only coalition the Tories could get is with the libdems. I doubt that would happen but stranger things have happened and the libdems have form for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankhfc
Btw until labour stop being ruled by momentum they won't go close to getting a majority.
It would seem that a party candidate is missing for the 2019 general election in East Dunbartonshire.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_D...s_in_the_2010s
Should be a clean sweep almost for snp. Although looking like a Boris government so pretty pointless as he won't allow for an official independence vote in his 5 years so pretty pointless
Fairs fair, I was a wee bit pished at the time. I can't remember much about it. When did Yousuf get the better of Gardiner?Quote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
Seventeen million people.Quote:
Originally Posted by HiBremian
I doubt he will be able to suspend democracy that long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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Do they chant "Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats" to the same tune of "New Manager's Green and White Army"Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
This has already been answered. Deadline for the parties to get candidates paperwork in is next Friday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
Jews represent 0.5 per cent of the UK population. They are the fifth largest religious community in the UK after Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs.
https://www.bod.org.uk/jewish-facts-info/jews-in-numbers/
I hate to say it, but "anti semitism" seems to be playing a disproportionate role in this election. Particularly when it is confused with anti Zionism.
I must be misunderstanding your argument here. Alleged persecution of a religious minority shouldn't be a big issue if the minority is very small? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataplana
The key word was disproportionate. There is a limited amount of time to debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
That's a fair point about the confusion with anti-zionism and a lot of the stuff I have seen being called out as anti-semitic really wasn't. Where Labour have a problem is with those who have crossed the line in to anti-semitism, whether by design or through ignorance. If they had dealt with the relatively small amount of members guilty of that they wouldn't be getting battered for it now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataplana
I'm not sure what relevance the size of the Jewish community has here? What point are you trying to make with that one?
I would rather that the debate was about Labours wealth creation policy, or pensions. I question why this issue which affects very few electors, and which is subject to dispute within the Jewish community, is such a prominent election issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
The treatment of gay people in Northern Ireland, or WASPI women could be said to be more important but we focus on this. I think it is being given more attentii than it merits.
Persecution of religious minorities affects all electors. And people who are not on the electoral roll. Or it should.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataplana
Of course it does, I am questioning whether the impact of this "persecution" (as I say Jews are questioning whether it exists) has on the people "effected" is jumping the queue in terms of what we could be discussing.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
Personally, I see it as a tactic to discredit all of Labour and Corbyn's policies by discrediting the man himself. When you consider that his showing sympathy to the Palestinian cause is one of the main criticisms, you have to wonder it is more a matter of foreign policy than protection of minorities.
I feel the coverage is out of proportion to the problem.
Yes. political agenda...making him seen as a figure of hate ..although tbf not sure he has done enough to discredit it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataplana
Sure the (Tory) press coverage is over the top, but it's a serious issue which hasn't been well handled by the Labour leadership, so it's inevitable that Corbyn and Labour are going to be slaughtered for it. At least there is some basis in truth for this criticism, unlike most of the nonsense being pumped out by Johnson & cronies, so it's a kind of silver bullet for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataplana
"Affected". :wink: