Glad we agree on something.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
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Glad we agree on something.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
What was it she said earlier? That she was the only female politician with a shot of becoming Prime Minister in this election?
That's one hell of a long shot Jo.
Technically correct though 😉Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
I technically have a shot at Jennifer Lawrence, but I don't brag openly about my chances. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Jo Swinsons attempt at trying to convey what she thinks anger is supposed to sound like in a speech. :doh:
I can't decide whether you're deliberately appearing obsessed or not. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
I'm beginning to think it's an inhibited crush. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankhfc
:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
:aok:
:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
Nothing inhibited about it. She crushes my ear drums everytime I have the misfortune of hearing her speak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
She would make a good primary school teacher but that's about it.
She's a bit loud. I have to turn down the telly or the cat wakes up.
I want to like her but I keep getting the feeling that there's a massive faux pas just around the corner.
She's unelectable
Thought this should go in here. Only credible posters need read. :wink:
https://wingsoverscotland.com/green-ink-and-chloroform/
Lib Dem dodgy leaflets again :greengrin
https://mobile.twitter.com/GuardianH...20920555487232
How desperate can they get? :faf:Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudSquall
Jo Swinson said in her speech earlier that she believes she can do a better job than both Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson.
However, when pressed on the subject of coalitions, she said "I absolutely, categorically rule out any coalition with Jeremy Corbyn".
But not Boris Johnson....
She did call Boris Johnson a "British Donald Trump" though, but also said she wouldn't rule out a relationship with Trump....... Perhaps a bit of a hidden clue there.
You're getting too hung up on the word coalition. They won't enter a coalition with either but that doesn't mean the Lib Dems wouldn't work in a less formal structure with Labour.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
Or insist any deal with Labour does not include Corbyn. It’s likely that if it’s a hung parliament that Labour will still have lost again. Corbyn will be under pressure to step down anyway. It’s possible the Lib Dem’s day no deal until Labour have new leader.Quote:
Originally Posted by Since90+2
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At this point who are Labour saying they will form a coalition with? Or the Tories? None of the main UK national parties are going to answer that question just now. But if it’s a hung parliament the cost of getting the LibDems on board will be at the very least an agreement to hold a second referendum. That rules out the Tories, Boris could never agree to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
Swinson has already told Andrew Neil she will not work with Corbyn, even if that means she doesn't get a second EU referendum.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
Labour are smartly keeping their options open. The Lib Dems have already given their answer to that question. No coalition with Labour, but no comment regarding the conservatives.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
What makes the lib dems anymore trustworthy now than last time? Rule out a coalition with the tories for crying out loud.
Just following the 'success' of the Ruth Davidson branding of the Scottish tolies :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
Boris Johnson hasn’t ruled out a coalition with the Labour Party and Corbyn hasn’t ruled out a coalition with the Brexit Party. Makes you think eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
He hasn't ruled out a coalition with the SNP (The Lib Dems have).Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
They'd be as well just coming out and saying that they rule out any coalition with any parties on the left.
Are the SNP a party of the left? Centre right surely like Blair’s Labour was and the Tories used to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
Based on what?Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
The SNP opposed Blairs PFI schemes, his market deregulation policies, his war based on a pack of lies he invented himself, his opposition to railyway renationalization, his handing of full fiscal control over to the banks, his multi-millionaire tax dodging schemes, his refusal to build social housing or implement rent caps, his introduction of 'workfare' schemes, his privatization of the prison system, his introduction of ATOS into the benefit assessment system, his introduction of over 200 tax payer funded privately ran academies..... I could go on and on.
There was one other party however who did back all of these new "labour" policies to the hilt. I'll leave it to you to work out who that party was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
For a man who stated here that he had no interest what so ever in the old politics of left and right the accusation that your party of choice is not really that left wing seems to have hurt a bit.:greengrin
I think most people would agree that Corbyn's Labour Party are offering the closest to old style left wing policies of any party. And they aren't even that left wing as far as I am concerned. Until recently the rest of them were fighting over the same centre right ground. Up until the Tories lurched to the right that is. It's not a criticism of the SNP by the way, it's what has enabled them to keep a broad church of differing political stances together for so long, they can be all things to all people.
They can't, no party can. We live in uncompromising times. Any party trying to appeal to everyone, ultimately ends up appealing to no one.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
Eh? The SNP have been the most disciplined Party I can remember for over a decade now despite there being a wide spread of political opinion amongst their ranks. It looks like they have managed to be all things to all people in this case. (As long as you believe in Independence that is. :greengrin)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
Anyway.....back to Jo Swinson.
The SNP are not all things to all people. If they were, they would have 100% of the vote in Scotland. I agree they have been very diciplined to maintain such a high level of support for so long, but they're far from appealing to everybody up here.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
If they tried to be all things to all people, they would be nothing to no one. Just like The Independent Group for Change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
Of course they won't have 100% support. :confused:
All things to all people is merely a figure of speech meaning they appeal to a very broad spectrum and really isn't to be taken literally. But you know that anyway.
Anyway, back on track........Jo Swinson
Back to Jo Swinson :greengrin, She's willing to launch the nukes..
https://twitter.com/mrpaulaitken/sta...78250085933056
For a Lib Dem Jo Swinson seems to have some pretty conservative views. I think she would jump at the chance to go into coalition with the tories if there is a hung parliament.Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudSquall
She comes across as being disingenuous, untrustworthy and out of her depth.
Based on her past voting history and the language she is now using, being careful not to say outright she will not go into a coalition with the Tories but completely rules out working together with Jeremy Corbyn's Labour, I think it's pretty obvious she's got her money on Johnson and is hoping to be the king maker.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Harp Awakes
It is blatantly obvious. But don't you dare point that out to the "middle ground moderates". They don't like that sort of comparison. Even if there is no other comparison to be made.
She's saying the right things to maximise her vote share.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
What she will actually do if it comes to it, will depend on the circumstances in which she finds herself.
Corbyn is hated by pretty much every Tory. More than the remainer Tory voters hate Brexit. If she so much as hinted that she would help him become PM, she would immediately close the door to any possible Tory tactical voters.
Labour remainers who might be inclined to vote tactically have heard her saying that she will do everything she can to stop Brexit. She has gone as far as saying that she wouldn't even accept the result of a second referendum if it returned a no vote.
Labour voters would be prepared to put up with a minority Tory government if Brexit was stopped or even if there was a 2nd referendum.
She's saying/not saying things that can come back to bite her on the erse.
When she enters a coalition with the tories, she can simply claim that she never ruled one out with them. We all know how obsessed she is with inflicting austerity on the most vulnerable.
Lib Dem MP stands down and endorses Labour candidate in a marginal seat between Labour and the Tories. Jo Swinson says no and plans to put up a new candidate. :rolleyes:
https://i.ibb.co/BBW9sYn/notsurprised.png
Unless they get a reciprocal deal from Labour then they are quite right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
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Quite right to stand in a seat they have no chance of winning in a Labour/Tory marginal?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
This isn't a game.
But we all know the real reason why. The Lib Dems need brexit to happen to remain relevant.
Hopefully most Lib Dem voters will be savvy enough to vote tactically for the Labour candidate. Farage is helping the Tories, so the progressive parties need to work together in marginal seats too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
,,,,Did she not vote with the tories on every austerity bill,sure i read it somewhere,could be wrong though.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Harp Awakes
Have Labour stood down in any of the Tory / Lib marginals that they have no chance of winning? No? Thought not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
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Nah I think you are right, from what I read she was a true blue during that coalition, until she saw the "Jo Swinson for PM" tagline she was more Tory than most Tory MPs....Quote:
Originally Posted by H18S NX
I think is amusing that we have a whole thread with a whole lot of posts that are critical of Jo Swinson.
I am a member of a different party so I don’t have any allegiance to her.
The folk who post that she voted for this and that - of course she did, she was whipped as part of the coalition agreement. She was obliged to vote that way as a result of the quid pro quo, the LibDems banked heavily on Alternative Vote, which failed at referendum. Voting for short term Tory policies was a gamble on changing the electoral system and ensuring a left-centrist lock on government.
The anti-Jo Swinson stuff tends to be weak, and at times, from some posters, rather misogynistic.
I tend to agree, whether you think she's in it for herself or whatever, the one thing it's not fair to pull her up on is voting in line with 'her' government of the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
Feel free to point out these Tory/LibDem marginals where Labour should step down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Fact is, the Lib Dem MP who stood down, did so because he knew it made sense. Pretty poor way for the party to treat one of their own by simply replacing him.
https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/p...icies-lib-dems
Vice gets it spot on.
Voted against increasing benefits in line with inflation.
Voted 25 times against against increases in welfare spending.
Voted 11 times for the bedroom tax.
But hey, she was whipped and we all hate women.
Get tae ****.
Attachment 22693
Wasn't just a few times she voted for them, it was more than Gove and Hunt, nothing to do with her sex, I just think she's a total ********
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4
Swinson is a careerist first and foremost and if she's calculated that Brexit will serve her career better in the long run by giving her and the party something to continually "fight against". She'll be hoping for a comfortable tory majority to push brexit through.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f61b1aeb5e.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
Would this count?
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The snp seem to have hit upon a worthwhile policy idea on that subject with the universal basic income (UBI) which would eventually scrap the benefits system altogether.Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudSquall
It would if the Lib Dems actually wanted to win enough seats to be in a position of major influence. But then that would mean sticking to their fake promises. A situation they'll really want to avoid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
It generally makes no difference if Zac Goldsmith or Sarah Olney wins that particular seat, as the main aim over England as a whole, is to take votes away from Labour, but not so many votes that they actually risk winning too many seats.
It makes a big difference and everyone knows it. To have half a chance of forming a govt, Labour need to stop the Tories going above 320 seats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
Without an alliance they have no chance.
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There is no alliance though, that's the problem. Neither Labour or the Lib Dems have any motivation to work together. Labour don't trust the Lib Dems and working with Labour would be counter productive to the true motives of the Lib Dem hierarchy. Their motive isn't to work with remainers, it's to work against them while making it appear that they're trying to avoid brexit, while actually doing everything to ensure that it happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
They'll continue their "we're the only party that can stop brexit" rhetoric, knowing full well that it will ultimately result in a tory majority. They're even spewing the same rhetoric in Scotland in the hope that the tories take some marginal seats away from the SNP.
Don't you mean the snp has agreed with the Scottish Green Party 😉Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankhfc
Indeed, it’s been a Green policy for longer than it’s been an SNP one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
:aok:Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Whether or not it was the Greens idea and the Snp have decided to run with it is to both parties credit. Its a policy that while in the formative stage could put an end to the complicated benefits system altogether.
I don't know how far on it has got but 4 local authority areas were identified to run a trial a couple of years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankhfc
It’s never been proven to work anywhere in the world yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
An interesting write up on Finland's trial here:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
https://medium.com/basic-income/what...l-54b8e5051f60
:aok:Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Interesting piece. Its certainly worth experimenting further with as the positive aspects could definitely outweigh the negative ones. I like the theory behind it and hope a way is found to make it both practical and affordable.
I’ve not had time to read the article yet but I would think that it’s impossible to do with a whole population due to the effect it would have on inflation and the massive cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankhfc
Any trials of it so far always seem to be focused on people who would be receiving benefits elsewhere.
They have it in Alaska and it’s funded by the money from oil but even there it’s causing problems.
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2...l-basic-income
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I agree after reading more about the policy that it does have faults and could have implications for the wider economy, however, the theory is in my opinion sound and if a way could be found to implement it with resolving most of the negative impacts it could transform society into a far better more equal one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Definitely deserves further exploration and experimentation.
The Lib Dems now positioning themselves as the "austerity forever" party.
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/ge...pkg6y4iPg9gdcI
ThisQuote:
Originally Posted by Glory Lurker
I read your link and it said that the Lib Dems would raise corporation tax and capital gains tax to increase funding for child care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
You wouldn’t be at the lies again would you?
Would it be misogynistic to suggest that Jo has always wanted to be one of the cool kids, and is actually lapping up the fact that she is in their gang now?
I love her for entertainment, she is the closest we will get to Kez's levels of stupidity and lack of self awareness.
You read the article and took out a very selective quote to give the impression that their overall plans are a good thing. I can do that to. See....Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
"The Lib Dem plans are in some ways stricter than the fiscal rules introduced by George Osborne when he was Chancellor - raising the prospect of a swift return to austerity."
Doesn't look so good again.
I quoted policy decisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
You quoted opinion.
And that’s the difference.
Policy decisions that are ultimately irrelevant as they're nowhere near being the ruling party of government anytime soon. It's their rhetoric i'd be more concerned about as it gives an insight as to the kind of approach they would take yet again should a coalition opportunity with the tories arise again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
Their rhetoric the last time included things like no tuition fees, so you can't even rely on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
Yes, but they hide behind the "if we're a majority government" line.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataplana
No tuition fees...... if we're a majority government.
Reverse article 50....... if we're a majority government.
They can do this knowing full well they're nowhere near being a majority government anytime soon and they can simply hold the large party they jump into bed with as responsible, despite voting with them every step of the way to force draconian legislation through parliament.
You quoted a journalist’s opinion and presented it as fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
But that’s not exactly untypical of you. Lies come easily to you, don’t they?
An opinion based on the rhetoric of the party line. Not quite a "lie".Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
A truth you find uncomfortable doesn't make it a lie.
I invite you to give me a truth I am not uncomfortable with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
In your own time. Not jaundiced views or your passions.
Just truths.
And you never answered the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
You really don’t stand up, do you?
Lies, fleeing away when challenged, and hiding.
Good work :agree:
I'm struggling to find a truth you're not uncomfortable with tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
In a funny sort of way, I think I like you :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
:hmmm:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
Steady now.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
https://twitter.com/yougov/status/11...895457280?s=21
The more exposure Swinson gets, the more people appear to dislike her.
Not good for the lib dems when their whole campaign is based on her personality.
I am not sure if we are reading the same thing but her appeal amongst Remain voters seems to be favourable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Grieves
Her broader appeal is a challenge, I guess because she is a threat to Brexiteers, the Tories and Labour. Chuck into the mix that she is a young woman MP and we have all the ingredients for a bit of sexist, misogynistic hate. No doubt that will be channelled in less obvious terms but if she wasn’t a threat then they wouldn’t be after her.
Im not saying you are guilty of that but we know that many female MPs on the liberal, pro-EU side face death and hate threats to the extent that there are people in jail for threatening violence against them.
I have acknowledged on here before that I am a Labour Party member but Corbyn and his acolytes don’t speak for me. I like Jo Swinson. I like the very firm stance on repealing Brexit. I don’t like Corbyn’s cowardice and ambivalence about leaving the EU..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
I hope the lib dems win seats from the tories in this election, unfortunately, their poll results have been piss poor recently. They have a problem
I watched her tonight and the way she talks sounds whiny, if that makes sense? As if she is always complaining. I’m not sure people can follow that.
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Im not even a LibDem member but that sounds like something that would never be levelled at a male politician.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I think this election is all up for grabs. We don’t normally go to the polls in December and Brexit is influencing it massively.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Grieves
Interesting times.
I would definitely have levelled such an accusation at a male politician and frequently criticised Ed Milliband for the exact same thing. He did not have a voice I thought people could get behind and he often sounded like a whiny teenager.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
These are not observations about the substance of the politician, just about the horse race and how people’s minds work.
There are plenty female politicians with great commanding oratory. Jo Swinson isn’t one of them.
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I think the main reason Swinson gets it tight on here, and especially from "the SNP crowd" is because she is a Scot trying to curb her Scottishness to appeal to the English.
You expect a certain amount of duplicity from folk (Tories) like Michael Gove. There is a large part of Swinson's message that appeals to Scots - liberalism, centre-ground politics and the staunch attitude to remaining in the EU that many people would be happy to get on board with.
But when you take the rough edges off her accent with some elocution lessons and then you have a stuttering, faltering performance lacking in conviction every time she is asked probing questions about what is a hypocritical position on a Scottish independence referendum then I can understand why people might not take to her.
There is just something about her voice and her body language that doesn't appear genuine. Many Tories might be *******s but they are honest about what they believe in. The left of the Labour Party make no bones about the fact that they'd like to take from the rich. Swinson doesn't appear to have conviction when she's pressed on certain issues (not all - see the level of conviction re Brexit) when she knows an honest answer will piss people off.
If Jo Swinson was to become prime minister, how much of Parliament business would she be excluded from. English vote for English law!!
Pretty much sums it up for me, along with her voting record while sitting alongside Cameron and the "careerist" vibe she gives off similiar to Chuka Umunna.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
The Lib Dems are appallng positionists. In bed with the Tories one minute, going for a second referendum the next and now wanting to forget Brexit and ignore the referendum result.
With friends like that..........
I'm a hibs fan (obviously) and a supporter of Independence, but I can't listen to Ian Blackford. His whiny constant droning does my head in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
Reminds me of the Scottish bloke on Monty Python who used to say, "ah won't interrupt this sketch for a pound.'Quote:
Originally Posted by southfieldhibby
Swinson is pretty crap
I agree. Hopefully after the election they have a shake up and replace Blackford. He annoys the life out of me.Quote:
Originally Posted by southfieldhibby
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I like him, but he could do with learning when to stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
He has a tendency to drone on after having successfully made his point.
Sometimes less is more.