Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

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Originally Posted by Smartie

Their "agenda" (and what our agenda should be) is driven by a justified sense of being aggrieved at having had to make sacrifices, staring down your own fans demanding that you splash the cash and watching your club suffer as a result, whilst those in charge of the club take the flak, all in the name of running a business sensibly, properly and ensuring that the club exists for years to come, whilst other clubs have taken shortcuts to success, having broken the rules along the way, failing to have been punished, failing to have co-operated honestly and openly with enquiries and bringing the whole game into disrepute. The people behind these misdeeds still hold positions of power at clubs and at the authorities - this fact is ridiculous and laughable.

The fans of their club, and ours, are buying tickets for a competition that has lost credibility in the eyes of the fans in terms of the consistency of how punishments for blatant rule-breaking are handed out.

There is only so long that a competition lacking in "sporting integrity" can be viable.

A proper, impartial investigation is required. We need to have confidence in the people running our game. We need ALL clubs to co-operate, to act with appropriate candour (i.e. it doesn't become a Celtic-minded witch hunt), we may need to punish individuals or organisations appropriately and we need to do it properly.

We need to know how financial chicanery on the scale carried out by Rangers will be punished if it carried out in future, and have confidence in the people in charge to do so.

Otherwise why shouldn't Celtic, Hibs or anyone else not just play the way Rangers 1872 RIP did?

Rangers fans should be as interested in this as anyone. They might win a league at some point in the future. If they do, they should want to take great pride in the salvation of their club from where it was to a position where it wins a tough, clean competition fair and square. Their insistence on keeping their tainted titles and refusal to co-operate with previous enquiries, generally defensive/aggressive nature and general bawbaggery makes this a difficult situation to envisage.



Then we need to move on.




(ps - we shouldn't be put off doing this by the fact that there probably are a good few foil-hatted, foaming-mouthed Celtic lunatics who are desperate to put the boot into their old rivals).

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Fantastic post.


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Originally Posted by marinello59

Their 'agenda' consists of giving their bitterest rivals another kicking whilst ensuring the current one horse race continues. Self- righteous, hypocritical pompous ****ers rather than leaders.
IMHO of course. :greengrin

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Exactly.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...case-1-4555105

Aberdeen chairman takes up his traditional pro Rangers stance.


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There seems now to be nobody in the game now saying that there is no evidence of cheating, just that having an enquiry will make them look bad. That's not really a defence at all and I can't see it lasting. I just don't see people moving on until the truth is heard.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...case-1-4555105

Aberdeen chairman takes up his traditional pro Rangers stance.


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Is he really too stupid to see that the negativity continues because they are getting away with it? Most people would see it as a good thing if there was a thorough clean out at the SFA...........

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Originally Posted by marinello59

Their 'agenda' consists of giving their bitterest rivals another kicking whilst ensuring the current one horse race continues. Self- righteous, hypocritical pompous ****ers rather than leaders.
IMHO of course. :greengrin

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Do you dislike Celtic that much? Your responses are nothing short of incredulous!

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Originally Posted by MrSmith

Do you dislike Celtic that much? Your responses are nothing short of incredulous!

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I thought they were pretty accurate.

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Originally Posted by MrSmith

Do you dislike Celtic that much? Your responses are nothing short of incredulous!

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Some of us dislike everyone bar the cabbage

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Originally Posted by Baldy Foghorn

Some of us dislike everyone bar the cabbage

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Nothing wrong with that.


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Originally Posted by ancient hibee

I thought they were pretty accurate.

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In what way?

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Originally Posted by Baldy Foghorn

Some of us dislike everyone bar the cabbage

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i guess I'm not as parochial as that!

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Nothing wrong with that.


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there is where justice is concerned!

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Originally Posted by MrSmith

there is where justice is concerned!

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Two different things. If someone wants to take time out to insult another team then that's cool.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Two different things. If someone wants to take time out to insult another team then that's cool.


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Again and at this juncture, that is parochial and emotionally unintelligent.

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Originally Posted by MrSmith

i guess I'm not as parochial as that!

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So you like other teams as well as the cabbage? Cool

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Originally Posted by Baldy Foghorn

So you like other teams as well as the cabbage? Cool

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this isn't about tribalism, it's about justice! But cool nonetheless 👍

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Originally Posted by MrSmith

this isn't about tribalism, it's about justice! But cool nonetheless 👍

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So you said you weren't narrow minded? Is having a like for one team only narrow minded?

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Originally Posted by MrSmith

Do you dislike Celtic that much? Your responses are nothing short of incredulous!

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Perhaps you could highlight the particular points you find 'incredulous' . Cheers. :aok:

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Originally Posted by marinello59

Perhaps you could highlight the particular points you find 'incredulous' . Cheers. :aok:

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Look back through your posting regarding Celtic.

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Originally Posted by Baldy Foghorn

So you said you weren't narrow minded? Is having a like for one team only narrow minded?

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I don't recall narrow minded?

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Originally Posted by MrSmith

Look back through your posting regarding Celtic.

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That's not really an answer is it?

I want sevco nailed, I want the SFA and all who sail in her nailed, I want it acknowledged that our system is corrupt, has been corrupt for years and needs to be replaced, I want shot of everyone who thinks we can just carry on regardless, I really, really want our media to grow a collective pair.
Imagination, that's all it takes and I don't give a bxgger about any Celtic agenda; in this instance they are on the side of the goodies (ourselves and everyone else the rangers have been pxssing on for years). I've spent most of my life having to accept our footie is rigged, I don't want my grandson having to put up with it for the rest of his life as well.
he deserves better, we deserve better.
GG

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Originally Posted by MrSmith

In what way?

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I didn't realise that there is more than one way of being accurate or indeed of me thinking something is accurate.

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Originally Posted by Malthibby

I want sevco nailed, I want the SFA and all who sail in her nailed, I want it acknowledged that our system is corrupt, has been corrupt for years and needs to be replaced, I want shot of everyone who thinks we can just carry on regardless, I really, really want our media to grow a collective pair.
Imagination, that's all it takes and I don't give a bxgger about any Celtic agenda; in this instance they are on the side of the goodies (ourselves and everyone else the rangers have been pxssing on for years). I've spent most of my life having to accept our footie is rigged, I don't want my grandson having to put up with it for the rest of his life as well.
he deserves better, we deserve better.
GG

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:agree:

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Originally Posted by ancient hibee

I didn't realise that there is more than one way of being accurate or indeed of me thinking something is accurate.

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There is more than one way of being accurate.

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Originally Posted by marinello59

That's not really an answer is it?

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In context wth incredulous, of course it is!

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Originally Posted by MrSmith

I don't recall narrow minded?

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parochial

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Originally Posted by Baldy Foghorn

parochial

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Limited outlook or scope? Perhaps looking past one club?

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Originally Posted by MrSmith

In context wth incredulous, of course it is!

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Actually it's not, my own posts don't make me incredulous so I'll need your assistance. :greengrin
You could easily quote the offending posts, I really didn't mind defending them or admitting I am wrong if required. It's usually the latter but you never know. :greengrin
So maybe you could try and highlight what it is in particular I have said about Celtic that makes you incredulous.

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Originally Posted by Malthibby

I want sevco nailed, I want the SFA and all who sail in her nailed, I want it acknowledged that our system is corrupt, has been corrupt for years and needs to be replaced, I want shot of everyone who thinks we can just carry on regardless, I really, really want our media to grow a collective pair.
Imagination, that's all it takes and I don't give a bxgger about any Celtic agenda; in this instance they are on the side of the goodies (ourselves and everyone else the rangers have been pxssing on for years). I've spent most of my life having to accept our footie is rigged, I don't want my grandson having to put up with it for the rest of his life as well.
he deserves better, we deserve better.
GG

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Brilliant.



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Originally Posted by MrSmith

Limited outlook or scope? Perhaps looking past one club?

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Many definitions to the word. Limited outlook, why would you look beyond your own?

I guess what I am not clear about is who (exactly) are the SFA? If they are representing the clubs how can they refuse to participate? Who employs Regan, Dickson et al and can the clubs not collectively tell them to participate or else bolt?

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Originally Posted by HoboHarry

I guess what I am not clear about is who (exactly) are the SFA? If they are representing the clubs how can they refuse to participate? Who employs Regan, Dickson et al and can the clubs not collectively tell them to participate or else bolt?

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Its very likely most of the clubs do want to want to move on as seen by the Aberdeen chairman. Its the fans who will ultimately be the driving force of any change in Scottish football. The Celtic fans must have been piling on the pressure to its board. I'm all for the titles being stripped of which should have occurred at the first instance wherewith the SFA would not be in the absurd position its been drawn into by a desire to treat the fans like idiots with the transparently deceitful farcical 'Lord' Nimmo Smith cover up.

Even now at this very late stage it would be better for Scottish football if the SFA took responsibility for its actions with an apology for attempting to deceive and engage with the stripping of the titles as its the correct course of action to take and try to repair the damage done. If not its bound to fall with the main players like Regan disappearing in shame.

Its always the cover up that nails them as the true old cliches state.

The atmosphere at the governing bodies must be fraught with fear and tension just now but it didn't have to be that way if they had acted properly in the first instance.

Glory Glory.

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Originally Posted by lgnsh_070362

Its very likely most of the clubs do want to want to move on as seen by the Aberdeen chairman. Its the fans who will ultimately be the driving force of any change in Scottish football. The Celtic fans must have been piling on the pressure to its board. I'm all for the titles being stripped of which should have occurred at the first instance wherewith the SFA would not be in the absurd position its been drawn into by a desire to treat the fans like idiots with the transparently deceitful farcical 'Lord' Nimmo Smith cover up.

Even now at this very late stage it would be better for Scottish football if the SFA took responsibility for its actions with an apology for attempting to deceive and engage with the stripping of the titles as its the correct course of action to take and try to repair the damage done. If not its bound to fall with the main players like Regan disappearing in shame.

Its always the cover up that nails them as the true old cliches state.

The atmosphere at the governing bodies must be fraught with fear and tension just now but it didn't have to be that way if they had acted properly in the first instance.

Glory Glory.

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Not sure that "most of the clubs" want to move on. It's the clubs (the SPFL) who have asked for the independent enquiry. They couldn't have come to that without a majority.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Not sure that "most of the clubs" want to move on. It's the clubs (the SPFL) who have asked for the independent enquiry. They couldn't have come to that without a majority.

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Personally I think most of the clubs would like to move on as demonstrated from the Aberdeen chairman however its highly likely they're being pressured into taking a course of action in the form of an independent inquiry from the ordinary fans of whom are not buying into the no sporting advantage and imperfect registration findings.

If I'm wrong no problem mate its just my point of view.

Glory Glory.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

There seems now to be nobody in the game now saying that there is no evidence of cheating, just that having an enquiry will make them look bad. That's not really a defence at all and I can't see it lasting. I just don't see people moving on until the truth is heard.


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I remember, when this first happened in 2012, the majority of the SPL clubs chairmen/boards didn't appear to be in too much of a hurry to see the Hun punished until they got a warning from their own supporters and the likes of Turnbull Hutton voicing his opinion - and I can see the same thing having to happen again. Most chairmen/boards are just fixated on the money coming into their club but strangely don't seem to consider the long-term effect on our game if the Hun go un-punished - to me it looks like they've learnt nothing from then !

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Not sure that "most of the clubs" want to move on. It's the clubs (the SPFL) who have asked for the independent enquiry. They couldn't have come to that without a majority.

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Just wanted to add that there's no-one more than me who wishes they had taken the decision to strip them of the titles when they should have. I have no pleasure whatsoever in seeing a governing body being dragged into the gutter. However the truth and correct moral path is far more important than saving what has become an immoral deceitful empire. I detest what the authorities have become when it perversely sets itself above justice.

I'm an admirer of your posts CropleyWasGod not looking at all to argue merely giving my opinion.

Glory Glory Sir.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Not sure that "most of the clubs" want to move on. It's the clubs (the SPFL) who have asked for the independent enquiry. They couldn't have come to that without a majority.

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That's is what makes the SFA's refusal to agree to an enquiry look so odd to say the least. I suspect there will be one despite their statement.

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Originally Posted by Baldy Foghorn

Many definitions to the word. Limited outlook, why would you look beyond your own?

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To get to the big picture and to put it right.

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Originally Posted by marinello59

Actually it's not, my own posts don't make me incredulous so I'll need your assistance. :greengrin
You could easily quote the offending posts, I really didn't mind defending them or admitting I am wrong if required. It's usually the latter but you never know. :greengrin
So maybe you could try and highlight what it is in particular I have said about Celtic that makes you incredulous.

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You know where your posts are and the content in them. I'm not offended by your apparent dislike of Celtic and their singular agenda, I'm intrigued as to why you seem unable to agree with the actions of a club seeking justice?

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Originally Posted by MrSmith

You know where your posts are and the content in them. I'm not offended by your apparent dislike of Celtic and their singular agenda, I'm intrigued as to why you seem unable to agree with the actions of a club seeking justice?

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And again. Point put the specific posts where I criticised Celtic which left you incredulous. You seem unable to.

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Originally Posted by Malthibby

I want sevco nailed, I want the SFA and all who sail in her nailed, I want it acknowledged that our system is corrupt, has been corrupt for years and needs to be replaced, I want shot of everyone who thinks we can just carry on regardless, I really, really want our media to grow a collective pair.
Imagination, that's all it takes and I don't give a bxgger about any Celtic agenda; in this instance they are on the side of the goodies (ourselves and everyone else the rangers have been pxssing on for years). I've spent most of my life having to accept our footie is rigged, I don't want my grandson having to put up with it for the rest of his life as well.
he deserves better, we deserve better.
GG

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Oh yes indeed.

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Originally Posted by lgnsh_070362

Just wanted to add that there's no-one more than me who wishes they had taken the decision to strip them of the titles when they should have. I have no pleasure whatsoever in seeing a governing body being dragged into the gutter. However the truth and correct moral path is far more important than saving what has become an immoral deceitful empire. I detest what the authorities have become when it perversely sets itself above justice.

I'm an admirer of your posts CropleyWasGod not looking at all to argue merely giving my opinion.

Glory Glory Sir.

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That body lost its way a while back i doubt they will suddenly find their Moral Compass now unless forced to do so They weren't slow to Act after the Cup Final when The Rangers put them under pressure with lies and untruths , but that was sorted out in a reasonable timeframe
This has dragged on for so long ,and if it wasn't for this thread ,even i would have lost interest i suspect .
Their was talk immediately in the aftermath of Sevco being demoted of the need for a Fair Financial Framework for Clubs to work to so that Clubs couldn't gain advantage by living out with their means
Its no real surprise to me this hasn't been implemented ,as the Governing Bodies have known ,until The Rangers get back into the Group Stages of European Football ,and reform their Cartel with Celtic where they finish first and second every year ,they will need to spending well out with their means
Maybe i am just to Cynical though and its all in hand


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Originally Posted by marinello59

That's is what makes the SFA's refusal to agree to an enquiry look so odd to say the least. I suspect there will be one despite their statement.

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It's odd if there's nothing to hide.

The SFA's position certainly appears untenable, so we may get an enquiry, although based on previous experience they will probably try to influence it's scope and terms.

The fact that they are leaking letters to the press to try and isolate Celtic and distract from the real issues indicates they are not going to go down without a fight.

As for the other member clubs, maybe they want the enquiry for genuine reasons or are bowing to fan pressure: maybe they are paying lip service and hope that it all goes away with the SFA refusal. Who knows, but I would think twice about stickining my neck out too far and risking the wrath of the Hun hoards.

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Originally Posted by marinello59

And again. Point put the specific posts where I criticised Celtic which left you incredulous. You seem unable to.

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From 1300 onward.

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Originally Posted by Ronniekirk

That body lost its way a while back i doubt they will suddenly find their Moral Compass now unless forced to do so They weren't slow to Act after the Cup Final when The Rangers put them under pressure with lies and untruths , but that was sorted out in a reasonable timeframe
This has dragged on for so long ,and if it wasn't for this thread ,even i would have lost interest i suspect .
Their was talk immediately in the aftermath of Sevco being demoted of the need for a Fair Financial Framework for Clubs to work to so that Clubs couldn't gain advantage by living out with their means
Its no real surprise to me this hasn't been implemented ,as the Governing Bodies have known ,until The Rangers get back into the Group Stages of European Football ,and reform their Cartel with Celtic where they finish first and second every year ,they will need to spending well out with their means
Maybe i am just to Cynical though and its all in hand

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No-one was demoted. :tsk tsk:

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Originally Posted by MrSmith

From 1300 onward.

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Yet again, point out the posts where my criticism of Celtic left you incredulous. You really do seem unable to do that.

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Originally Posted by marinello59

Yet again, point out the posts where my criticism of Celtic left you incredulous. You really do seem unable to do that.

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no ta, you are right i am unable to.

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Originally Posted by Smartie

Their "agenda" (and what our agenda should be) is driven by a justified sense of being aggrieved at having had to make sacrifices, staring down your own fans demanding that you splash the cash and watching your club suffer as a result, whilst those in charge of the club take the flak, all in the name of running a business sensibly, properly and ensuring that the club exists for years to come, whilst other clubs have taken shortcuts to success, having broken the rules along the way, failing to have been punished, failing to have co-operated honestly and openly with enquiries and bringing the whole game into disrepute. The people behind these misdeeds still hold positions of power at clubs and at the authorities - this fact is ridiculous and laughable.

The fans of their club, and ours, are buying tickets for a competition that has lost credibility in the eyes of the fans in terms of the consistency of how punishments for blatant rule-breaking are handed out.

There is only so long that a competition lacking in "sporting integrity" can be viable.

A proper, impartial investigation is required. We need to have confidence in the people running our game. We need ALL clubs to co-operate, to act with appropriate candour (i.e. it doesn't become a Celtic-minded witch hunt), we may need to punish individuals or organisations appropriately and we need to do it properly.

We need to know how financial chicanery on the scale carried out by Rangers will be punished if it carried out in future, and have confidence in the people in charge to do so.

Otherwise why shouldn't Celtic, Hibs or anyone else not just play the way Rangers 1872 RIP did?

Rangers fans should be as interested in this as anyone. They might win a league at some point in the future. If they do, they should want to take great pride in the salvation of their club from where it was to a position where it wins a tough, clean competition fair and square. Their insistence on keeping their tainted titles and refusal to co-operate with previous enquiries, generally defensive/aggressive nature and general bawbaggery makes this a difficult situation to envisage.



Then we need to move on.




(ps - we shouldn't be put off doing this by the fact that there probably are a good few foil-hatted, foaming-mouthed Celtic lunatics who are desperate to put the boot into their old rivals).

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Hits the nail on the head.

Make no mistake there will be action taken whatever the SFAwant. In some ways I welcome this decision as it removes control of thedirection of the enquiry from their hands.
Hopefully the action will be led by Celtic, and it lookslikely that this is their position. This would be best, if for no other reason,in that they have access to avenues such as the Court for Arbitration in Sportand UEFA which are unavailable to private individuals.
Even if Celtic back off a Judicial Reviewwill be sought and, if necessary crowdfunded, by Celtic supporters. It would beregrettable if this was allowed to be portrayed as Celtic alone questioning theSFA but there is a determination to see this through.

The question now is what side of the line are other SPFLclubs and supporters going to stand on. This has dragged on for too long andthis must be addressed now.

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Originally Posted by MrSmith

no ta, you are right i am unable to.

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:rolleyes:
I know.

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Originally Posted by lgnsh_070362

Just wanted to add that there's no-one more than me who wishes they had taken the decision to strip them of the titles when they should have. I have no pleasure whatsoever in seeing a governing body being dragged into the gutter. However the truth and correct moral path is far more important than saving what has become an immoral deceitful empire. I detest what the authorities have become when it perversely sets itself above justice.

I'm an admirer of your posts CropleyWasGod not looking at all to argue merely giving my opinion.

Glory Glory Sir.

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I do. But that's mainly because I think it would be ****ing hilarious. :greengrin

Chris McLaughlin‏Verified account @BBCchrismclaug 1m1 minute ago




#Celtic release statement saying if #SFA don't agree to Rangers EBT review it represents "failure in transparency and leadership."

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Originally Posted by Stonewall

It's odd if there's nothing to hide.

The SFA's position certainly appears untenable, so we may get an enquiry, although based on previous experience they will probably try to influence it's scope and terms.

The fact that they are leaking letters to the press to try and isolate Celtic and distract from the real issues indicates they are not going to go down without a fight.

As for the other member clubs, maybe they want the enquiry for genuine reasons or are bowing to fan pressure: maybe they are paying lip service and hope that it all goes away with the SFA refusal. Who knows, but I would think twice about stickining my neck out too far and risking the wrath of the Hun hoards.

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I really don't think that's an option, they have now backed themselves in to a corner where if there is an enquiry it will have to be totally independent. Their statement may have unintentionally made an enquiry more likely now.

[QUOTE=grunt;5163927]Chris McLaughlin‏Verified account @BBCchrismclaug 1m1 minute ago




#Celtic release statement saying if #SFA don't agree to Rangers EBT review it represents "failure in transparency and leadership."[/QUOTE

Not happy about their letter being leaked yesterday. Gloves are off.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJRq3uZWsAAU-JT.jpg:large

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Originally Posted by marinello59

I really don't think that's an option, they have now backed themselves in to a corner where if there is an enquiry it will have to be totally independent. Their statement may have unintentionally made an enquiry more likely now.

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Call me a conspiracy theorist, but perhaps there are those within the SFA who have been aiming for this outcome all along. [emoji849]

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Originally Posted by Stonewall

Chris McLaughlin‏Verified account @BBCchrismclaug 1m1 minute ago




#Celtic release statement saying if #SFA don't agree to Rangers EBT review it represents "failure in transparency and leadership."[/QUOTE

Not happy about their letter being leaked yesterday. Gloves are off.

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Good. It's time Hibs picked a side here and I think it's always better to be on the side of those looking for the truth.


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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but perhaps there are those within the SFA who have been aiming for this outcome all along. [emoji849]

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I've been thinking along similar lines since the SFA statement came out.

Celtic have published all their correspondence with the SFA on the issue.
http://cdn.celticfc.net/assets/downl...espondence.pdf
Gloves really are coming off.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Good. It's time Hibs picked a side here and I think it's always better to be on the side of those looking for the truth.


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Who says they haven't already decided what side they are on and always have been?
It looks like a very clever game of chess has been played in the background by Celtic and others.

[QUOTE=Ozyhibby;5163935]

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Originally Posted by Stonewall

Good. It's time Hibs picked a side here and I think it's always better to be on the side of those looking for the truth.


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The truth is out there!

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Originally Posted by marinello59

I've been thinking along similar lines since the SFA statement came out.

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There's no evidence, of course, but it's as valid as the knee-jerk assumption that Rod has stitched us up.

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Originally Posted by marinello59

Who says they haven't already decided what side they are on and always have been?
It looks like a very clever game of chess has been played in the background by Celtic and others.

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Let's hope we have. Now is the time to go public on that.


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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

There's no evidence, of course, but it's as valid as the knee-jerk assumption that Rod has stitched us up.

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Aye. :greengrin

It would be brilliant to find out that Hibs and Rod had been working away in the background to get to the truth here and I will be the first to congratulate them if that is the case.


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While I haven't attempted to contribute anything to this lengthy debate I enjoy much of the inciteful comments contributed by many of you.

I think we've been in a trough those past few weeks and think the SFA statement which prompted this Celtc one may take us towards another crest, this in turn hopefully leading to some heads rolling - eventually. However, I think it's important that we hear from the other professional clubs to get their opinion, but there hasn't been a peep (apart from Stewart Milne) and I have no idea what their attitude is - let alone that of Hibs.

I don't want those in charge during this sorry episode to continue and would like us to start from a clean sheet, therefore I hope all those in favour of 'integrity and fairness' ultimately succeed for the image and future prosperity of the game in Scotland.

Roll on page 2000.

Now that everyone is going public, I don't think it's fair if Celtic are alone in this. It's time for Hibs and the other clubs to show their support.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Now that everyone is going public, I don't think it's fair if Celtic are alone in this. It's time for Hibs and the other clubs to show their support.


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Given the events of the last couple of days then it probably is now time for Hibs to say something.

Its now clear to me why Hibs didnt make the promised statement. It is just a shame Tracey was hung out to dry and not allowed to say that the plans had changed but she couldnt divulge why.This whole thing though isnt straightforward.

The current rangers is not the same club as the one with 54 titls, some of which were tainted and so we cant strip titles that they didnt win. What we could do is make it clear they are a new club with only a few years history and only 3 lower league titles to their name

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Originally Posted by Skol

Its now clear to me why Hibs didnt make the promised statement. It is just a shame Tracey was hung out to dry and not allowed to say that the plans had changed but she couldnt divulge why.This whole thing though isnt straightforward.

The current rangers is not the same club as the one with 54 titls, some of which were tainted and so we cant strip titles that they didnt win. What we could do is make it clear they are a new club with only a few years history and only 3 lower league titles to their name

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Titles still need to be stripped from old Rangers.


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Originally Posted by grunt

Celtic release statement saying if SFA don't agree to Rangers EBT review it represents "failure in transparency and leadership."

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Absolutely correct. The SFA's line about not wanting to rake over the coals deserves nothing but contempt.

Don't doubt for a minute that the Hibs board have been working on something in the background. Maybe Celtic have taken the lead on this particular issue behind the scenes and the rest were waiting to see what Lawwell and Co done.

Dons supporters organisation react to SFA statement.......at odds with Stewart Milne.

http://www.donssupporterstogether.co...ebt-statement/

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but perhaps there are those within the SFA who have been aiming for this outcome all along. [emoji849]

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I think it is part of a strategy, and perhaps it could even have been devised by someone with a history of clever deals but who prefers them done without the glare of publicity.

Do we know anyone like that? 😉

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Titles still need to be stripped from old Rangers.


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That's not what an enquiry would be about though so it's worth considering the realistic outcome we could get from this. A liong and expensive enquiry to tell us that mistakes were made in how the original rules were designed?

I think a number of people asking for this to be looked at again are expecting some sort of justice in the form of action against Rangers.

That's not going to happen.

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Originally Posted by Andy74

That's not what an enquiry would be about though so it's worth considering the realistic outcome we could get from this. A liong and expensive enquiry to tell us that mistakes were made in how the original rules were designed?

I think a number of people asking for this to be looked at again are expecting some sort of justice in the form of action against Rangers.

That's not going to happen.

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:agree:

According to Chris McLaughlin there are no top flight clubs in favour of a review specific to Rangers. (apart of course from Celtic)

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Originally Posted by Betty Boop

According to Chris McLaughlin there are no top flight clubs in favour of a review specific to Rangers. (apart of course from Celtic)

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Shock horror, because the rest unlike Celtic are *****bags.

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Originally Posted by Betty Boop

According to Chris McLaughlin there are no top flight clubs in favour of a review specific to Rangers. (apart of course from Celtic)

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They are trying to isolate Celtic on Sportsound. It's time for other clubs to step up.


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Originally Posted by Andy74

That's not what an enquiry would be about though so it's worth considering the realistic outcome we could get from this. A liong and expensive enquiry to tell us that mistakes were made in how the original rules were designed?

I think a number of people asking for this to be looked at again are expecting some sort of justice in the form of action against Rangers.

That's not going to happen.

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Why is it so unrealistic for fans to think more can be done? Titles should be stripped. Do you think Celtic would honestly waste time wanting another investigation if they really didn't think titles could be taken from The Rangers?

They know there is plenty that can still be taken against them, but other clubs are afraid. As usual.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

They are trying to isolate Celtic on Sportsound. It's time for other clubs to step up.


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Maybe other clubs have got skeletons in their closet ?

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Originally Posted by Betty Boop

Maybe other clubs have got skeletons in their closet ?

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That's more than probable. Any enquiry will be about Scottish Football and how it is run as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Andy74

That's not what an enquiry would be about though so it's worth considering the realistic outcome we could get from this. A liong and expensive enquiry to tell us that mistakes were made in how the original rules were designed?

I think a number of people asking for this to be looked at again are expecting some sort of justice in the form of action against Rangers.

That's not going to happen.

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An enquiry into the events involving Rangers / Sevco should investigate who knew what and when, and who was involved in any cover-ups or dodgy agreements made behind the scenes. There are people still in positions of authority involved in it all and, if they were guilty of wrongdoing, they should be removed.

If it's found that rules were boken and procedures not followed, then that will open the door to futher action to rectify that wrongdoing (e.g. shoud the titles have been stripped or not)

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Originally Posted by Thecat23

Why is it so unrealistic for fans to think more can be done? Titles should be stripped. Do you think Celtic would honestly waste time wanting another investigation if they really didn't think titles could be taken from The Rangers?

They know there is plenty that can still be taken against them, but other clubs are afraid. As usual.

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A lack of foresight is not something you can accuse Celticof. The effect of stripping titles on The Rangers would not be tangible as theyare a new club. This is not the main thrust of Celtic’s approach or the Celticsupporters and shareholders who have been driving this.
The main concern is to lay bare what happened and to makesure this cannot happen again. Unless the whole corrupt mess is exposed thesame cabal will do it all again whenever necessary, and that may be soonerrather than later.
Undeniably title stripping and new club definition may bethe logical corollary of the exposure of corruption but that is not the mainobject of the exercise.

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Originally Posted by marinello59

That's more than probable. Any enquiry will be about Scottish Football and how it is run as a whole.

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What, you mean they might look at some of the payment arrangements that happened at Hearts? That would be terrible. [emoji6]


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Originally Posted by Keekaboo

An enquiry into the events involving Rangers / Sevco should investigate who knew what and when, and who was involved in any cover-ups or dodgy agreements made behind the scenes. There are people still in positions of authority involved in it all and, if they were guilty of wrongdoing, they should be removed.

If it's found that rules were boken and procedures not followed, then that will open the door to futher action to rectify that wrongdoing (e.g. shoud the titles have been stripped or not)

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The door is not open and there's no prospect of it being opened. Celtic didn't ask for that either.

It's not about applying pressure for it to happen, it can't be done.

If lessons haven't been learned then an enquiry might root out something that still needs changed in current rules but that's about it. The SFA I suspect think it already has changed and an enquiry would be a waste of time and money. I don't know enough about changes made to have a view on that.

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Originally Posted by Betty Boop

According to Chris McLaughlin there are no top flight clubs in favour of a review specific to Rangers. (apart of course from Celtic)

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McLaughlin's made that statement based on speaking to 2-3 people at director-level from each club - just like 2012, their views/opinions won't match that of the fans who pay week-in and week-out.

Email correspondence between Regan and Dickson at the time of the awarding of Rangers euro license.
https://www.scribd.com/mobile/docume...Licence-Issues


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Originally Posted by Betty Boop

According to Chris McLaughlin there are no top flight clubs in favour of a review specific to Rangers. (apart of course from Celtic)

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Interesting that he feels it necessary to say 'specific to Rangers' as that would suggest that they are not averse to some sort of enquiry. Is McLaughlin being a bit disingenuous here? In any case Celtc's tone so far seems to be more about the authorities' governance rather than 'specific to Rangers' as well.

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Originally Posted by Keekaboo

An enquiry into the events involving Rangers / Sevco should investigate who knew what and when, and who was involved in any cover-ups or dodgy agreements made behind the scenes. There are people still in positions of authority involved in it all and, if they were guilty of wrongdoing, they should be removed.

If it's found that rules were boken and procedures not followed, then that will open the door to futher action to rectify that wrongdoing (e.g. shoud the titles have been stripped or not)

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It won't. That's already been ruled on. Recent legal advice confirmed again it's a non starter.

If people are pushing for an enquiry then they should be aware of the limits of it.

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Originally Posted by Andy74

It won't. That's already been ruled on. Recent legal advice confirmed again it's a non starter.

If people are pushing for an enquiry then they should be aware of the limits of it.

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That was the SFA's legal advice, wasn't it?

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Originally Posted by Andy74

It won't. That's already been ruled on. Recent legal advice confirmed again it's a non starter.

If people are pushing for an enquiry then they should be aware of the limits of it.

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The SPFL could strip the titles tomorrow. Who would challenge them? New Rangers? It's not their titles. Can't see BDO being interested in doing it on behalf of old Rangers. No money in it.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

The SPFL could strip the titles tomorrow. Who would challenge them? New Rangers? It's not their titles. Can't see BDO being interested in doing it on behalf of old Rangers. No money in it.


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Correct Ozy. its untrue for anybody to state legality has been an insurmountable obstacle for stripping the titles and in fact there's only ever been an unwillingness by the authorities to strip them. It was the correct action to take then and its still the correct action to take now and at any time in the future.

:top marks

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

The SPFL could strip the titles tomorrow. Who would challenge them? New Rangers? It's not their titles. Can't see BDO being interested in doing it on behalf of old Rangers. No money in it.


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You don't think Sevco would legally challenge any title stripping? :confused:

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Originally Posted by marinello59

You don't think Sevco would legally challenge any title stripping? :confused:

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Apart from the fact that Sevco never won them, I'm pretty sure that in the SPFL's rules there will be a clause that allows them to do just that for whatever reason it likes.
It's not really the point though. That would not get us to the truth. I want the fact the Walter Smith and Greame Souness took bribes out in the open, I want them disgraced. I want the members of the SFA who help the cover up exposed and banned from football. Only a full transparent enquiry gets us that.


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Originally Posted by marinello59

You don't think Sevco would legally challenge any title stripping? :confused:

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Let them. Would expose the old club/new club question to fresh legal scrutiny and would shine a spotlight on the murky secretive 5 way agreement and perhaps, perhaps might provide real transparency and truth. This could finally provide some faith that the game is run honestly and fairly in this country.

Personally I think title stripping shouldn't be our focus at this time but a real independent inquiry into football governance in this country is long overdue. The old boys network at the SFA has long since been unfit for purpose and fans' concerns that it isn't run for the benefit of all has been brought in to sharp focus over the last 5 years. The revelation of corruption at FIFA and UEFA should make us even more determined to ensure our SFA is operating above reproach.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Apart from the fact that Sevco never won them, I'm pretty sure that in the SPFL's rules there will be a clause that allows them to do just that for whatever reason it likes.
It's not really the point though. That would not get us to the truth. I want the fact the Walter Smith and Greame Souness took bribes out in the open, I want them disgraced. I want the members of the SFA who help the cover up exposed and banned from football. Only a full transparent enquiry gets us that.


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And if a full and transparent enquiry doesn't result in the punishments you have already deemed appropriate?
The focus has to be on transparency and improving things as we move forward otherwise a lot of lawyers will have enriched themselves for nowt.

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Originally Posted by Andycolo

A lack of foresight is not something you can accuse Celticof. The effect of stripping titles on The Rangers would not be tangible as theyare a new club. This is not the main thrust of Celtic’s approach or the Celticsupporters and shareholders who have been driving this.
The main concern is to lay bare what happened and to makesure this cannot happen again. Unless the whole corrupt mess is exposed thesame cabal will do it all again whenever necessary, and that may be soonerrather than later.
Undeniably title stripping and new club definition may bethe logical corollary of the exposure of corruption but that is not the mainobject of the exercise.

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That's a more than decent summary

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Originally Posted by Deansy

McLaughlin's made that statement based on speaking to 2-3 people at director-level from each club - just like 2012, their views/opinions won't match that of the fans who pay week-in and week-out.

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Equally comments made to a BBC reporter may not accurately reflect the private discussions taking place in the boardroom.