Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

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Originally Posted by jgl07

Speedway operate a bond system. The authorities have been burned several times by promotions not able to finish a season. Now to enter any of the professional leagues a bond must be deposited.

The SPL had to pay to keep Gretna on life support for half a season. They could be stung again if Hearts are allowed to start this coming season. In hindsight it is obvious that Gretna were heading for a fall. The business model of playing home matches at Motherwell with a core support of 1,000 was bound to fail. Hearts look equally unsustainable.

Hearts' administrators have admitted that they do not have the cash to go much beyond the start of the season. If the SPFL allow Hearts in on a wing and a prayer, they must bear the consequences.

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Interesting about speedway. Cheers.

I am guessing (it's all it can be) that the SPFL have had many discussions with BDO. Apparently, there were similar conversations during the Rangers story, which were bound by confidentiality. Perhaps they, too, have raised the issue of a bond....speculation, of course.... but a bond would almost certainly kill them off.

The SPFL have to consider their own legal position, too.... and, indeed, will probably be examining their insurance cover. It's perhaps fortunate in that respect that there is no sponsor yet, but a TV company might take a dim view of a 12-team league suddenly contracting halfway through the season.

As you say, the Gretna story has probably concentrated a few minds.

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Originally Posted by Treadstone

The story that started it (Wilson is quoted in it) and a few tweets.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/f...forest-2054467

Craig Wilson ‏@Real_C_Wilson6h
Like everyone I'd love Jason to stay as a Hearts player and I agree 100k in normal circumstances isn't good value BUT we are on our knees.

Craig Wilson ‏@Real_C_Wilson5h
Next bit. I've never claimed to represent any fans, I was asked my opinion on club refusing a 6 figure bid for a player

Craig Wilson ‏@Real_C_Wilson4h
Granted the Record mentioned what we achieved with Rally, but again that's insignificant and unconnected. I simply gave my opinion

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The guy Wilson came across quite well. He made the point that admin staff had lost their jobs, that fans had been fleeced over shares & that various groups had donated to Yams. He, understandably IMO made the point that if Yams have guaranteed income in a normal sense, ie a player sale, they should be taking it rather than begging for unusual income support.
I still feel that BDO are at best skewing their adminstrative responsibilities by turning bids down, they're accountants not football managers.

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Originally Posted by brog

The guy Wilson came across quite well. He made the point that admin staff had lost their jobs, that fans had been fleeced over shares & that various groups had donated to Yams. He, understandably IMO made the point that if Yams have guaranteed income in a normal sense, ie a player sale, they should be taking it rather than begging for unusual income support.
I still feel that BDO are at best skewing their adminstrative responsibilities by turning bids down, they're accountants not football managers.

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Devil's Advocate question here.... as I'm not wholly convinced by either side of the argument.

The Yams have, what, 18/20 players? Given that BDO have to try and preserve a going concern, both to attract a buyer and to secure a reasonable future... and that there is a signing ban which will probably continue after this week's meeting..........what if, come November, there is a spate of injuries and suspensions that reduces the available squad to, say, 12 players? In hindsight, would it be seen as irresponsible of BDO to let a player go?

Damned if they do, etc etc.

The floor is open....:greengrin

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Devil's Advocate question here.... as I'm not wholly convinced by either side of the argument.

The Yams have, what, 18/20 players? Given that BDO have to try and preserve a going concern, both to attract a buyer and to secure a reasonable future... and that there is a signing ban which will probably continue after this week's meeting..........what if, come November, there is a spate of injuries and suspensions that reduces the available squad to, say, 12 players? In hindsight, would it be seen as irresponsible of BDO to let a player go?

Damned if they do, etc etc.

The floor is open....:greengrin

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Football administration is a nest of vipers, inhabited by crooks. I would trust used car salesmen more.:cb

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Originally Posted by brog

The guy Wilson came across quite well. He made the point that admin staff had lost their jobs, that fans had been fleeced over shares & that various groups had donated to Yams. He, understandably IMO made the point that if Yams have guaranteed income in a normal sense, ie a player sale, they should be taking it rather than begging for unusual income support.
I still feel that BDO are at best skewing their adminstrative responsibilities by turning bids down, they're accountants not football managers.

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The guy is good friends with a mate of mine, and he's a decent enough guy who cares deeply for the wrong club.

The way kickback rounded on him with personal abuse is shocking but to be expected. They've been like that with dissenters for years now.

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

Football administration is a nest of vipers, inhabited by crooks. I would trust used car salesmen more.:cb

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Really, Spike?

You kept that quiet.

:greengrin

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Devil's Advocate question here.... as I'm not wholly convinced by either side of the argument.

The Yams have, what, 18/20 players? Given that BDO have to try and preserve a going concern, both to attract a buyer and to secure a reasonable future... and that there is a signing ban which will probably continue after this week's meeting..........what if, come November, there is a spate of injuries and suspensions that reduces the available squad to, say, 12 players? In hindsight, would it be seen as irresponsible of BDO to let a player go?

Damned if they do, etc etc.

The floor is open....:greengrin

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Given there previous on discipline having 12 available might be more an ambition.

On a more general point you, in your debate, seem to be shifting the victim to the yams rather than the creditors they've screwed and other clubs of points i.e. prize money and European slots.

You are asking the real victims to be victims once again. They've made their bed blah, blah, big team, 1902, 5.1, 2013 RIP etc..

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Originally Posted by brog

I still feel that BDO are at best skewing their adminstrative responsibilities by turning bids down, they're accountants not football managers.

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I'm not sure I agree. They don't need the income at this point, they might argue not at all.
They are accountants like you say, so they would have sought third party advice I assume.
If the offer for Holt was close to market value and they declined then I'd agree with your point.
Even taking into consideration their current circumstances I don't think £100,100 was reasonable.

They did make a commitment for season ticket sales about no fire sales.
They had to stick to that to keep the fans on side, not impossible they may have to call on them again and their reputation will carry forward to the next football club they handle in admin.

If the offer was more reasonable then they could have argued it wasn't a fire sale, I don't accept they should accept any 6 figure sum that the Wilson guy was arguing.
That wouldn't change what's gone.

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Originally Posted by Jack

Given there previous on discipline having 12 available might be more an ambition.

On a more general point you, in your debate, seem to be shifting the victim to the yams rather than the creditors they've screwed and other clubs of points i.e. prize money and European slots.

You are asking the real victims to be victims once again. They've made their bed blah, blah, big team, 1902, 5.1, 2013 RIP etc..

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I'm not shifting that victim status at all.... as I said, I'm in 2 minds about the situation, and am willing to be convinced either way.

One point, though. The creditors have more chance of getting something in a CVA if there are, say, 20 players than they would if there were only 15. The former would be more attractive to a buyer.

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Originally Posted by Makaveli

The guy is good friends with a mate of mine, and he's a decent enough guy who cares deeply for the wrong club.

The way kickback rounded on him with personal abuse is shocking but to be expected. They've been like that with dissenters for years now.

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Yes, Craig is a smart, decent fellow. Unfortunately for him, and lucky for us, he, and those like him, are unlikely to get much of a hearing in Yamland. The default settings are deluded arrogance and self-pitying victimhood, and any Yam who doesn't do these (and there are a few) are pretty much wasting their time.

Good news for us, as these people lack the fundamental skill set to make a useful contribution to the saving of stamps, let alone a football club.

There has never in recorded human history, been a group of wheezing, shrivel-lunged paedophille asbestos victims who have successfully rescued a sporting club and, regarding events in Gorgie, one confidently expects this pattern to continue.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

There bloody should be.

If there was, I'd be able to stay off here and get some real work done. :greengrin

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You are doing real work so stay where you are :cb

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Originally Posted by StevieC

Never in doubt.

The extra 3,000 season tickets will cover July/Aug, the SPL money from last season will cover September and maybe some of October, the walk-ups might just about cover up to November .. December will be a real struggle .. and then they're finished.

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Wonder how many walk ups there will be when the results are not favourable, they struggled against a Pars team at the weekend . They could still be on minus points come November.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Devil's Advocate question here.... as I'm not wholly convinced by either side of the argument.

The Yams have, what, 18/20 players? Given that BDO have to try and preserve a going concern, both to attract a buyer and to secure a reasonable future... and that there is a signing ban which will probably continue after this week's meeting..........what if, come November, there is a spate of injuries and suspensions that reduces the available squad to, say, 12 players? In hindsight, would it be seen as irresponsible of BDO to let a player go?

Damned if they do, etc etc.

The floor is open....:greengrin

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They won't be limited to their current player pool.

They'll be allowed to sign and play as many "triallists" as they have the gall to do so.

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Originally Posted by clerriehibs

They won't be limited to their current player pool.

They'll be allowed to sign and play as many "triallists" as they have the gall to do so.

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Not if they are still in the top league they won't. And if they are in a lower league the number appearing in each match and the number of appearances each one can make is limited. Don't stress yourself.:greengrin

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Originally Posted by brog

The guy Wilson came across quite well. He made the point that admin staff had lost their jobs, that fans had been fleeced over shares & that various groups had donated to Yams. He, understandably IMO made the point that if Yams have guaranteed income in a normal sense, ie a player sale, they should be taking it rather than begging for unusual income support.
I still feel that BDO are at best skewing their adminstrative responsibilities by turning bids down, they're accountants not football managers.

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He a banker..... no really he is!! Quite funny really jkb getting their knickers in a twist over an opinion then playing the ginger card.

On hols. Siting in a fabulous hotel waiting to go to dinner with gin and tonic in hand in one of many bars which are fantastic in hotel. Wife and kids getting ready still!!

Anyway if someone new dropped into the hertz saga and asked for a summary eg bring it up a few levels.

They are in admin. They start next season on -15 points. They can't sign any players and won't be able to for a long time. The bid to move out of admin is based on 3 bids, one from the comedy club that is the FoH and meant to be to be the lowest. The other two bids are from sources thy even we as Hibs fans couldnt have dreamt up in the ideal scenario. They have a very inexperienced squad and inexperienced manager and they are favourites for the drop if they make it into next season. Odds seen to be against them coming out of admin with liquidation more likely but its still in balance.

Trust me the above feels SO GOOD !!!!

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Originally Posted by Col2

On hols. Siting in a fabulous hotel waiting to go to dinner with gin and tonic in hand in one of many bars which are fantastic in hotel. Wife and kids getting ready still!!

Anyway if someone new dropped into the hertz saga and asked for a summary eg bring it up a few levels.

They are in admin. They start next season on -15 points. They can't sign any players and won't be able to for a long time. The bid to move out of admin is based on 3 bids, one from the comedy club that is the FoH and meant to be to be the lowest. The other two bids are from sources thy even we as Hibs fans couldnt have dreamt up in the ideal scenario. They have a very inexperienced squad and inexperienced manager and they are favourites for the drop if they make it into next season. Odds seen to be against them coming out of admin with liquidation more likely but its still in balance.

Trust me the above feels SO GOOD !!!!

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BDO desperately hoping UbIG into admin early August or its plan Morton I have heard!

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Originally Posted by desantos0773

BDO desperately hoping UbIG into admin early August or its plan Morton I have heard!

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It would have to be really early in August. The season starts on Friday the 2nd August.:greengrin

plan Morton after the season starts is a non starter for me. If Hertz were pumped oot, it would have an effect on all the leagues.

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Originally Posted by #FromTheCapital

According to Barry he's not even a hearts fan, although that's hard to believe just like everything else that he says. He's certainly got a lot of hate for us hibbies though, possibly something to do with the torrents of abuse he receives on a daily basis from us :cb

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Not even a Hearts fan... jeez, how bad is it with Banderson?

When reading his tripe I have often thought 'ah well, he's hurting so that probably explains his willingness to publish any positive titbits on them, no matter how pish, while slagging off Hibs at the same time.

But if he's not even a Hearts fan, he's an even worse journalist than I thought.

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Originally Posted by Jack

Given there previous on discipline having 12 available might be more an ambition.

On a more general point you, in your debate, seem to be shifting the victim to the yams rather than the creditors they've screwed and other clubs of points i.e. prize money and European slots.

You are asking the real victims to be victims once again. They've made their bed blah, blah, big team, 1902, 5.1, 2013 RIP etc..

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Originally Posted by Dunderhall

I'm not sure I agree. They don't need the income at this point, they might argue not at all.
They are accountants like you say, so they would have sought third party advice I assume.
If the offer for Holt was close to market value and they declined then I'd agree with your point.
Even taking into consideration their current circumstances I don't think £100,100 was reasonable.

They did make a commitment for season ticket sales about no fire sales.
They had to stick to that to keep the fans on side, not impossible they may have to call on them again and their reputation will carry forward to the next football club they handle in admin.

If the offer was more reasonable then they could have argued it wasn't a fire sale, I don't accept they should accept any 6 figure sum that the Wilson guy was arguing.
That wouldn't change what's gone.

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I doubt very much that they would have sought any advice. I think part of the problem is the 2 key players with BDO have been involved in several football admins & 1 is an ex player. As such I believe they consider themselves knowledgeable on football matters & as a result are making decisions which they would not do in a non football admin situation.
Now is £100,000 a reasonable offer for Holt? Only time will tell but we would have bitten someone's hand off if they'd offered that for Spoony & his pedigree, international recognition & experience are all way ahead of Holt. All Holt has is potential which may or may not be realised & we should not fall into he trap of believing that Yams really do have the best youngsters in the UK. I can see the argument of needing to keep a team on the park but in that case Yams should not have advertised all players as being for sale. In any case that argument really fails because we all know if bid had been double or treble the amount offered he would now be at Forest.
It all keeps the pot boiling though & internal strife amongst Yams will only continue to grow.

Maybe just that BDO want to make and keep a good reputation. Trying to do whats best for each team insures this amongst football clubs. This in turn gets them more admin jobs and of course more money.Even if the yams are donald ducked do BDO really care? I doubt it.

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Originally Posted by Waxy

Maybe just that BDO want to make and keep a good reputation. Trying to do whats best for each team insures this amongst football clubs. This in turn gets them more admin jobs and of course more money.Even if the yams are donald ducked do BDO really care? I doubt it.

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Quite the opposite, actually. If an administrator gets the reputation of doing what's best for "the club", rather than the creditors, the chances are that those who actually have the power to appoint administrators (banks, secured creditors, HMRC etc) will stop appointing them.

If BDO get a lot of football-related work, it's probably because they have a reputation amongst the appointers of doing their job better than others.

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Originally Posted by brog

I doubt very much that they would have sought any advice. I think part of the problem is the 2 key players with BDO have been involved in several football admins & 1 is an ex player. As such I believe they consider themselves knowledgeable on football matters & as a result are making decisions which they would not do in a non football admin situation.
Now is £100,000 a reasonable offer for Holt? Only time will tell but we would have bitten someone's hand off if they'd offered that for Spoony & his pedigree, international recognition & experience are all way ahead of Holt.
.

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I'm not disagreeing, such is opinion.
I thought they may have consulted with others to his market value, it's never easy to agree what a player's worth is.
Many .netters upset over not paying £150K-£175K for Lyle Taylor whose pedigree is less.
They seemed to have pleased the core Yams as a bonus.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

If BDO get a lot of football-related work, it's probably because they have a reputation amongst the appointers of doing their job better than others.

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It would be interesting to know why UKIO/UBIG wanted BDO as administrators...

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Originally Posted by grunt

It would be interesting to know why UKIO/UBIG wanted BDO as administrators...

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Funny handshake, of course.


:cb

And then there were 2. ...... bidders that is
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...-bid-1-3002335


Massone being black balled before the dealing starts.

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Originally Posted by greenginger

And then there were 2. ...... bidders that is
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...-bid-1-3002335


Massone being black balled before the dealing starts.

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He could still buy tynecastle though, that'd be interesting!

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Originally Posted by Dunderhall

I'm not disagreeing, such is opinion.
I thought they may have consulted with others to his market value, it's never easy to agree what a player's worth is.
Many .netters upset over not paying £150K-£175K for Lyle Taylor whose pedigree is less.
They seemed to have pleased the core Yams as a bonus.

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I agree 100% re the difficulty of valuing a player which is why I have some sympathy with Craig Wilson. Yams/BDO should really be managing their core business effectively, including player sales if required, rather than surviving through people selling cherished memorabilia, cake bakes & fraudulent share issues. I want to see a Yam team on the park that makes Gretna look like Barcelona! Only then will they start to receive the appropriate punishment for their crimes.

Interesting about a certain Mr Birch and Hearts fans.....

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...yce/#more-3861

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

Interesting about a certain Mr Birch and Hearts fans.....

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...yce/#more-3861

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Portsmouth were in admin for a very long time but no mention of a Newco here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22167294

They suffered a 10 point penalty too... :confused:

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

Interesting about a certain Mr Birch and Hearts fans.....

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...yce/#more-3861

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Take anything on that website with a pinch of salt. All articles are designed to wound sevco. He posted up a piece about the yams a couple of months ago that was error strewn. Hope they get whats coming though.:aok:

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Originally Posted by jacomoseven

Portsmouth were in admin for a very long time but no mention of a Newco here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22167294

They suffered a 10 point penalty too... :confused:

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No, it clearly states that the assests were transfered to the newco while Portsomouth FC were in admin awaiting liquidation, basically exactly the same as what happened with Rangers

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

Interesting about a certain Mr Birch and Hearts fans.....

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...yce/#more-3861

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For me, that article is just a different slant on the "same club vs different club" debate that will rage around Rangers for ever, and will do the same around hearts if they go down the NewCo route.

For me the question was did "old" rangers keep their SFA license ? NO Did they have to apply for a new SFA license ? YES...were granted temp. license until the forthcoming season when their new full license will commence. Therefore, in the eyes of the SFA they are a new club. End of.

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Originally Posted by southsider

For me the question was did "old" rangers keep their SFA license ? NO Did they have to apply for a new SFA license ? YES...were granted temp. license until the forthcoming season when their new full license will commence. Therefore, in the eyes of the SFA they are a new club. End of.

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And we're off. :greengrin

(being pedantic, it wasn't a "temporary licence". It was Associate Membership)

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

And we're off. :greengrin

(being pedantic, it wasn't a "temporary licence". It was Associate Membership)

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whatever the membership i think its critical that the same rules are applied, and it is clear to everyone what the punishmnets are for administration and/or liquidation.

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Originally Posted by southsider

For me the question was did "old" rangers keep their SFA license ? NO Did they have to apply for a new SFA license ? YES...were granted temp. license until the forthcoming season when their new full license will commence. Therefore, in the eyes of the SFA they are a new club. End of.

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Sorry your post doesn't count.... End of wasn't in capital letters....... :greengrin

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

For me, that article is just a different slant on the "same club vs different club" debate that will rage around Rangers for ever, and will do the same around hearts if they go down the NewCo route.

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Maybe more clear cut with a new Hearts if they were no longer at Tynecastle or were to have a season out because of time constraints setting up the newco.

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Originally Posted by Mac

No, it clearly states that the assests were transfered to the newco while Portsomouth FC were in admin awaiting liquidation, basically exactly the same as what happened with Rangers

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Seems strange that Portsmouth Newco were automatically allowed to stay in the EFL though...

Different rules I suppose

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Originally Posted by Mac

No, it clearly states that the assests were transfered to the newco while Portsomouth FC were in admin awaiting liquidation, basically exactly the same as what happened with Rangers

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Am I missing something? How about this article, which also quotes Trevor Birch:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22106528

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The Football League had warned that if Pompey did not exit administration by the end of the season it would remove the club's Golden Share and expel them, and Birch revealed they had been close to extinction several times over the past 14 months.

"You try to divorce yourself from the personal aspect of it. Because I am an officer of the court you have to be independent - but you can't help be satisfied that the club is in the hands of the supporters because it's gone through so much," he added.

"It needs some nurturing and some TLC and who better to dispense that than the supporters?

"They were very close [to being liquidated]."

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This says that Portsmouth were NOT liquidated and it's therefore the same company as before, just with different owners.

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Originally Posted by jacomoseven

Am I missing something? How about this article, which also quotes Trevor Birch:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22106528



This says that Portsmouth were NOT liquidated and it's therefore the same company as before, just with different owners.

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You're missing the fact that the authorities in England aren't that bothered whether a club has to form a new company. What he means by "close to being liquidated" in that quote is that Portsmouth FC would have ceased to exist completely and that there would have been no new company.

http://www.accountancyage.com/aa/new...-portsmouth-fc

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The administrators will now transfer the assets of the club, such as player contracts, to a new entity, which is likely to be called the Portsmouth Community Football Club, and will be owned by the PST.

The original 'club' Portsmouth Football Club (2010) Ltd, remains in administration and will be liquidated shortly, with BDO partners to be appointed.

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You know, I have trouble remembering the Bad Old Days when the Close Season was spent discussing such mundane matters as who we'd lose before the Transfer Window was finished and how Petrie was such a tight Ars* by not allowing the manager to sign Messi or Ronaldo.

Such innocent times, before the annual Administration/CVA/Liquidation era.


I wonder whose turn it'll be next summer :greengrin

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Originally Posted by keekaboo

You know, I have trouble remembering the Bad Old Days when the Close Season was spent discussing such mundane matters as who we'd lose before the Transfer Window was finished and how Petrie was such a tight Ars* by not allowing the manager to sign Messi or Ronaldo.

Such innocent times, before the annual Administration/CVA/Liquidation era.


I wonder whose turn it'll be next summer :greengrin

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Us. I read it on kickback.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Us. I read it on kickback.

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:tsk tsk:


You'll go blind!

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Originally Posted by inverurie exile

whatever the membership i think its critical that the same rules are applied, and it is clear to everyone what the punishmnets are for administration and/or liquidation.

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It's not a 'punishment' , it's a 'consequence' of administration or liquidation ...... :rules:

Only sevco and potentially yamco fans think it was a punishment ..... :greengrin

Totally baffling...

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/2...241384_3239826

Commercial "Call to Arms" to Edinburgh business community

16.07.2013

Following the amazing response from Hearts fans to the administrators plea for a further 3000 season tickets to be purchased, Hearts are now sending out a similar message to the Edinburgh business community to snap up corporate hospitality tickets, sponsorship and advertising at Tynecastle for next season.

David Southern, Hearts Managing Director said, "The response to the season ticket plea has been amazing and will help the club's cash flow over the next three or four months. However, we still need to generate revenue throughout the season to allow the club to prosper and a major factor in that is commercial revenue.

"Our message to businesses across Scotland is 'Welcome to Hearts, we're open for business'. We have some prime advertising positions at Tynecastle which will provide exceptional local, national and global media exposure for businesses. And sponsors and corporate hospitality guests will be part of up to seventeen thousand people next season enjoying some of the best hospitality in the SPFL's most atmospheric stadium.

"I believe we provide a service second to none and I have no doubt any business coming to the Tynecastle on a matchday will leave knowing they've had exceptional value for money."

Scott Cockburn, Managing Director of Buckstone Roofing said, "We take in four or five games a season in the Gorgie suite normally and have always enjoyed the formal yet relaxed atmosphere it provides. We regularly take clients along and whether a Hearts or visiting fan, they come away feeling like they've been well looked after.

"I've been to hospitality suites across the country and can honestly say that for atmosphere and quality of food, the Gorgie Suite is at the top of the tree. We also do a substantial amount of advertising which helps us promote Buckstone Roofing to a wide audience and we get a very good response to this. The coverage of Scottish Football in the local press is excellent and we regularly see our boards via various media outlets.

"The relationship we have with Hearts is excellent and we've had no hesitation in renewing our package for next year already. "

Why would any vaguely credible company want to be associated with that lot ?

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Originally Posted by JoeTortolanoFanClub

Totally baffling...

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/2...241384_3239826

Commercial "Call to Arms" to Edinburgh business community

16.07.2013

Following the amazing response from Hearts fans to the administrators plea for a further 3000 season tickets to be purchased, Hearts are now sending out a similar message to the Edinburgh business community to snap up corporate hospitality tickets, sponsorship and advertising at Tynecastle for next season.

David Southern, Hearts Managing Director said, "The response to the season ticket plea has been amazing and will help the club's cash flow over the next three or four months. However, we still need to generate revenue throughout the season to allow the club to prosper and a major factor in that is commercial revenue.

"Our message to businesses across Scotland is 'Welcome to Hearts, we're open for business'. We have some prime advertising positions at Tynecastle which will provide exceptional local, national and global media exposure for businesses. And sponsors and corporate hospitality guests will be part of up to seventeen thousand people next season enjoying some of the best hospitality in the SPFL's most atmospheric stadium.

"I believe we provide a service second to none and I have no doubt any business coming to the Tynecastle on a matchday will leave knowing they've had exceptional value for money."

Scott Cockburn, Managing Director of Buckstone Roofing said, "We take in four or five games a season in the Gorgie suite normally and have always enjoyed the formal yet relaxed atmosphere it provides. We regularly take clients along and whether a Hearts or visiting fan, they come away feeling like they've been well looked after.

"I've been to hospitality suites across the country and can honestly say that for atmosphere and quality of food, the Gorgie Suite is at the top of the tree. We also do a substantial amount of advertising which helps us promote Buckstone Roofing to a wide audience and we get a very good response to this. The coverage of Scottish Football in the local press is excellent and we regularly see our boards via various media outlets.

"The relationship we have with Hearts is excellent and we've had no hesitation in renewing our package for next year already. "

Why would any vaguely credible company want to be associated with that lot ?

---

Because they're an institution.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoeTortolanoFanClub

Totally baffling...

Why would any vaguely credible company want to be associated with that lot ?

---

Buckstone roofing.........:faf::faf::jamboclow

"Welcome to Hearts." :wtf:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Speedway

Because they're an institution.

---

Aye, and so is HMP Saughton !

There is a fair chance their commercial income has totally dried up as no company can justify paying in advance for a service to a company in admin.

Nice to hear from David Southern. Has he spent the last month writing that?

Could we no sponsor them likesy :cb

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter

You're missing the fact that the authorities in England aren't that bothered whether a club has to form a new company. What he means by "close to being liquidated" in that quote is that Portsmouth FC would have ceased to exist completely and that there would have been no new company.

http://www.accountancyage.com/aa/new...-portsmouth-fc

---

Correct. In a rare moment of sense last summer Neil Doncaster alluded to that. It was not something that was either unknown or uncommon in England and the examples of Middlesbrough, Leeds, Plymouth, Rotherham and I think Crystal Palace (i may be wrong on that one) amongst others were all thrown up as examples.
Neither the authorities nor most of the clubs really give a toss about it beyond fixtures being fulfilled.

Indeed English friends of mine were somewhat taken aback by the reaction of the Scottish clubs to the Rangers fiasco describing Rangers as a feeding frenzy, nothing more than a chance to put the boot in to the fallen school bully. Having deliberately distanced myself from as much Rangers chat as possible and avoiding anything that smells of self righteous hysterical Sellik blogger i can see that point of view.

However for our pink chums Rangers is the precedent. Division3 awaits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Maybe more clear cut with a new Hearts if they were no longer at Tynecastle or were to have a season out because of time constraints setting up the newco.

---

The big fear is that they start the season and go pop before it ends. Will Neil Doncaster have a plan in place to deal with such a scenario? Will he pre-empt it by sticking Hearts in Division 1 and promoting Morton? That would require the foresight & vision to protect the showpiece league in Scotland.

I fear another fiasco awaits and Mr Doncaster will simply put his pants on his head, stick 2 pencils up his nose and say "Wibble!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AndyM_1875

However for our pink chums however Rangers is the precedent. Division3 awaits.

---

But with a decent deal for the main stand repairs from Buckstone Roofing.
Cash only.

Surprised they didn't mention the best young players in Britain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoeTortolanoFanClub

Totally baffling...

[I]http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/2...241384_3239826

---

They must be sending that out as emails as the company I work for got one begging us to buy tickets.

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/r...-maiden-stakes

Was initially amused at their "Rudi five one" horse, namely as it's named after a player who ****ed off as soon as the money dried up but might stick a sneaky twenty quid on "Tax Enough", would be good to see another Jambo ****ed over by Hector's horse :greengrin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoeTortolanoFanClub

global media exposure

---

:faf:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SkintHibby

:faf:

---

"Global media exposure" was the bit that leapt out at me too. And I laughed like you did. Once a big club, always a big club I suppose. Complete trumpets the lot of them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoeTortolanoFanClub

Totally baffling...

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/2...241384_3239826

Commercial "Call to Arms" to Edinburgh business community

16.07.2013

Following the amazing response from Hearts fans to the administrators plea for a further 3000 season tickets to be purchased, Hearts are now sending out a similar message to the Edinburgh business community to snap up corporate hospitality tickets, sponsorship and advertising at Tynecastle for next season.

David Southern, Hearts Managing Director said, "The response to the season ticket plea has been amazing and will help the club's cash flow over the next three or four months. However, we still need to generate revenue throughout the season to allow the club to prosper and a major factor in that is commercial revenue.

"Our message to businesses across Scotland is 'Welcome to Hearts, we're open for business'. We have some prime advertising positions at Tynecastle which will provide exceptional local, national and global media exposure for businesses. And sponsors and corporate hospitality guests will be part of up to seventeen thousand people next season enjoying some of the best hospitality in the SPFL's most atmospheric stadium.

"I believe we provide a service second to none and I have no doubt any business coming to the Tynecastle on a matchday will leave knowing they've had exceptional value for money."

Scott Cockburn, Managing Director of Buckstone Roofing said, "We take in four or five games a season in the Gorgie suite normally and have always enjoyed the formal yet relaxed atmosphere it provides. We regularly take clients along and whether a Hearts or visiting fan, they come away feeling like they've been well looked after.

"I've been to hospitality suites across the country and can honestly say that for atmosphere and quality of food, the Gorgie Suite is at the top of the tree. We also do a substantial amount of advertising which helps us promote Buckstone Roofing to a wide audience and we get a very good response to this. The coverage of Scottish Football in the local press is excellent and we regularly see our boards via various media outlets.

"The relationship we have with Hearts is excellent and we've had no hesitation in renewing our package for next year already. "

Why would any vaguely credible company want to be associated with that lot ?

---

This would be the same David Southern who only a few weeks ago lied in his teeth when saying Yams were self-sustainable. The same David Southern, who to my knowledge has never commented or apologised for being part of a regime who perpetrated a cynical £1mm share fraud on the amazing Hearts fans!! Southern makes Chemical Ali look like the Dalai Lama & his utterances should only be taken seriously to the extent they may form evidence against him when this wholly corrupt facade finally crumbles.

i seriously cannot think of another football club anywhere on planet earth that bum themselves up so much...honestly :titanic:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AndyM_1875

I fear another fiasco awaits and Mr Doncaster will simply put his pants on his head, stick 2 pencils up his nose and say "Wibble!"

---

Hahahaha brilliant

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brog

This would be the same David Southern who only a few weeks ago lied in his teeth when saying Yams were self-sustainable. The same David Southern, who to my knowledge has never commented or apologised for being part of a regime who perpetrated a cynical £1mm share fraud on the amazing Hearts fans!! Southern makes Chemical Ali look like the Dalai Lama & his utterances should only be taken seriously to the extent they may form evidence against him when this wholly corrupt facade finally crumbles.

---

The Fraud and Corruption of the yam suckers is beyond any sane persons mind, their party is over and the cold turkey of Liquidation will soon come to pass, but they have the answer which is bake cakes burry head in sand and cross fingers and all will be fine :confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoeTortolanoFanClub

Why would any vaguely credible company want to be associated with that lot ?

---

Surely businesses without emotional attachment to yamco (I.e. the vaguely credible ones) will realise that they'd need to look at investing in Hibs also, otherwise could alienate Hibs fans from their business. Therefore, would they look at paying for advertising/do corporate hospitality across both teams?? I would think not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gavmac

Sorry your post doesn't count.... End of wasn't in capital letters....... :greengrin

---

We should all be aware, by now I would have hoped, that all truisms are not just postfixed with 'end of' - or 'END OF' as gavmac has correctly pointed out; but we must also observe the more modern, correct term, that all 100% factual statements must have suffixed: 'Hibs.net fact. End of'.

I happened across this relatively recent phenomena when researching the humble metre and came upon this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metre

Quote:

---

2002 – The International Committee for Weights and Measures (CIPM) considers the metre to be a unit of proper length and thus recommends this definition be restricted to "lengths ℓ which are sufficiently short for the effects predicted by general relativity to be negligible with respect to the uncertainties of realisation". Hibs.net fact. End of. [27]

---

From there I looked up the current thinking on Einstein's theories, and there too I found some absolute truths:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General...Current_status

Quote:

---

General relativity has emerged as a highly successful model of gravitation and cosmology, which has so far passed many unambiguous observational and experimental tests. However, there are strong indications the theory is incomplete. Hibs.net fact. End of. [186]

---

Like all good hypotheses, there must be an opposite to these supreme statements of fact, if only to satisfy the venerable academic community; searching various 'papers' I came across this that I hope illustrates my thoughts concisely:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...-set-soar.html

Quote:

---

This new main stand would house 10,000 fans - replacing the current stand which cost £12,000 when it was built in 1914 - and would ensure Tynecastle, with 23,000 seats, has the fourth-largest football stadium capacity in Scotland. It was also confirmed that the Tynecastle pitch will be compliant with UEFA regulations for European competition. YAM LIE. UNTRUTH.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

There is a fair chance their commercial income has totally dried up as no company can justify paying in advance for a service to a company in admin.

---

or associated with a company who might ultimately be at the heart of illegal activities such as money laundering and fraud (allegedly).

Dear mr Southern

I'm a businessman and I'm itching to take a hospitality package from hearts in February 2014. Three quick questions:

Can you guarantee the game will actually take place?

Should I address my check to BDO, HMFC ltd, FoH or the Cosa Nostra?

Or are you being premature here?

Yours etc etc

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jacomoseven

Nice to hear from David Southern. Has he spent the last month writing that?

---

Ghost written by Sidney :greengrin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Springbank

Dear mr Southern

I'm a businessman and I'm itching to take a hospitality package from hearts in February 2014. Three quick questions:

Can you guarantee the game will actually take place?

Should I address my check to BDO, HMFC ltd, FoH or the Cosa Nostra?

Or are you being premature here?

Yours etc etc

---

Beeb Radio reporting this morning that the Yankee/Peebles shoe salesman bid is falling apart at the soles, with the Yanks now apparently holding back £5 million of what had been 'offered'!:greengrin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ancienthibby

Beeb Radio reporting this morning that the Yankee/Peebles shoe salesman bid is falling apart at the soles, with the Yanks now apparently holding back £5 million of what had been 'offered'!:greengrin

---

:agree:

I just heard that.

Oh dear what a terrible start of the day for me.:wink:

:greengrin

So that just leaves the foh. What was their offer?

10 glass bottles of irn bru, a 20 deck of Lambert and butler and whatever change is chucked from the away end for the next season.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brog

This would be the same David Southern who only a few weeks ago lied in his teeth when saying Yams were self-sustainable. The same David Southern, who to my knowledge has never commented or apologised for being part of a regime who perpetrated a cynical £1mm share fraud on the amazing Hearts fans!! Southern makes Chemical Ali look like the Dalai Lama & his utterances should only be taken seriously to the extent they may form evidence against him when this wholly corrupt facade finally crumbles.

---

Couldnt agree more how is that weasel still allowed to speak for that shambles of a club.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoeTortolanoFanClub

Totally baffling...

[I]http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/2...241384_3239826
"I've been to hospitality suites across the country and can honestly say that for atmosphere and quality of food, the Gorgie Suite is at the top of a tree.

---

Fixed that for them.

They just have no shame - selling hospitality when they dont even know if they will still be alive!

Anyway - just noticed the irony of tomorrow, they are up in front of the SFA to get hammered for their insolvency event, and we are playing in europe! remind me who is the wee team??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Antwerphibs

So that just leaves the foh. What was their offer?

10 glass bottles of irn bru, a 20 deck of Lambert and butler and whatever change is chucked from the away end for the next season.

---

The FoH thing depends on what capital they have been able to borrow or have been given by investors. The pledges are not going to be able to fund the takeover itself. Can't see them being able to pay what the stadium is even worth but Rangers showed you never know!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Golden Bear

:agree:

I just heard that.

Oh dear what a terrible start of the day for me.:wink:

:greengrin

---

Oh dear spoilt the 2nd last day of my hols. Bob the salesman is proving to be a serial hoax bidder much as we thought. With Massone bid questionable given he's only ever put a pound on the table and not paid the Lecky bill that leaves us with FOH £1.8m upfront. RiP HMFC here comes liquidation !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andy74

The FoH thing depends on what capital they have been able to borrow or have been given by investors. The pledges are not going to be able to fund the takeover itself. Can't see them being able to pay what the stadium is even worth but Rangers showed you never know!

---

With Ukio Bankas having security over Tynie and BDO saying if bidders offer £1m and property developer offers £5m they will take £5m there will not be another Gers or by the looks of it s HMFC!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875

i seriously cannot think of another football club anywhere on planet earth that bum themselves up so much...honestly :titanic:

---

It really is a baffling mindset.and the delusion is staggering. It's the same mindset that lurks behind the FoH bid too.

The FoH bid as we all know consists of
"Hi! We're really nice. Ken Stott likes us. He's a nice famous Scottish actor. We have 2 million pounds. Can we exchange that for a CVA on £25m of debt and we want you to throw in the 5m stadium too. Fair enough?
We're really nice, Would you like some cake......"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ancienthibby

Beeb Radio reporting this morning that the Yankee/Peebles shoe salesman bid is falling apart at the soles, with the Yanks now apparently holding back £5 million of what had been 'offered'!:greengrin

---

But surely they'd simply be holding the money back from themselves? So where's the problem? :greengrin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by desantos0773

With Ukio Bankas having security over Tynie and BDO saying if bidders offer £1m and property developer offers £5m they will take £5m there will not be another Gers or by the looks of it s HMFC!

---

Spoke with our Council Estates Dept. yesterday and was told the sales brochure for old Tynecastle School are ready and will go on line today.

We will see what uses are being suggested for this site and if any particular reference is made to the distillery.

If it says what I think it will say I am going to forward a copy to BDO just to remind them Hibs.net are watching them ! :greengrin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ancienthibby

Beeb Radio reporting this morning that the Yankee/Peebles shoe salesman bid is falling apart at the soles, with the Yanks now apparently holding back £5 million of what had been 'offered'!:greengrin

---

Given that the original offer was reported as, variously, between £2m and £5m..... does that mean the revised offer is now negative?

Negative points = negative value. :greengrin

Thing I can't get my head around is the debt for equity swaps - what was in it for Romanov ?

Given the 'value' of the club what possessed them ? They must have known they were leaving UBIG with magic beans ....

BBC report on Club 9 Sports withholding funds for Hearts bid, FOH the only show in town??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23340145

Hearts: Club 9 Sports withhold funds for HMFC Ltd bid

The company behind one of the bidders for Hearts, HMFC Ltd, is withholding £5m that was to be used to buy the club, BBC Scotland has learned.

A dispute has arisen between US-based Club 9 Sports and UK businessman Bob Jamieson, who has tabled an offer on behalf of HMFC Ltd.

Club 9 Sports are believed to be looking for a 75% shareholding.

The dispute places the HMFC Ltd bid in doubt, with two other offers on the table for the club in administration.

Fans' group the Foundation of Hearts and Five Stars Football Ltd, who have former Livingston owner Angelo Massone as a director , are also seeking to take control at Tynecastle.

The HMFC Ltd bid is in the region of £2.5m up front with a further £2.5m being made available for working capital.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ...WentToMowAnSPL

Thing I can't get my head around is the debt for equity swaps - what was in it for Romanov ?

Given the 'value' of the club what possessed them ? They must have known they were leaving UBIG with magic beans ....

---

Kept him in the Hearts fans "good books" by suggesting to them that the cash he was playing with was actually in his power to allocate in such cavalier fashion to anyone who looked more than once at the state of the club, it's stadium, it's business model and the state of Scottish football generally! :confused: :dunno:

Was good for his ego? :confused: :dunno:

Short answer is, we'll probably never know! :agree:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ...WentToMowAnSPL

Thing I can't get my head around is the debt for equity swaps - what was in it for Romanov ?

Given the 'value' of the club what possessed them ? They must have known they were leaving UBIG with magic beans ....

---

Magic beans the Lith tax payer is now paying £65 million in real money for. Romanov did it just to make it look like the debt was not spiralling out of control.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greenginger

Spoke with our Council Estates Dept. yesterday and was told the sales brochure for old Tynecastle School are ready and will go on line today.

We will see what uses are being suggested for this site and if any particular reference is made to the distillery.

If it says what I think it will say I am going to forward a copy to BDO just to remind them Hibs.net are watching them ! :greengrin

---

Excellent work, i have also contacted them for an information schedule of the site for sale we must keep watching this BDO Mob i am still of the opinion they are not or will not act in the best interest of the creditors which is what they should be doing.

Did he not have to do the debt for equity thing to keep the club's debts below an agreed limit? :dunno:

I seem to remember that the accounts used to finish with a statement that the debt would be reduced through increased participation in European competition.:greengrin
Didnae happen, so he had to move debt around the 'empire' to balance the books, is how I remember it. Probably wrong though, so much has happened it's hard to keep track of!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sidneyhibbie

Excellent work, i have also contacted them for an information schedule of the site for sale we must keep watching this BDO Mob i am still of the opinion they are not or will not act in the best interest of the creditors which is what they should be doing.

---

You're doing it again, Sidney.:rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by s.a.m

Did he not have to do the debt for equity thing to keep the club's debts below an agreed limit? :dunno:

I seem to remember that the accounts used to finish with a statement that the debt would be reduced through increased participation in European competition.:greengrin
Didnae happen, so he had to move debt around the 'empire' to balance the books, is how I remember it. Probably wrong though, so much has happened it's hard to keep track of!

---

That was my understanding at the time.

The implication was that, by moving the debts to equity, HMFC's Balance Sheet appeared to be stronger. That made sense at the time, from the perspective of HMFC.

Now, with the benefit of hindsight and a clearer picture of the group's overall activities, I'm not so sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

That was my understanding at the time.

The implication was that, by moving the debts to equity, HMFC's Balance Sheet appeared to be stronger. That made sense at the time, from the perspective of HMFC.

Now, with the benefit of hindsight and a clearer picture of the group's overall activities, I'm not so sure.

---

...and if you were a gambling man, the alternative might, hypothetically and allegedly :wink:, be...?



The debt for equity swaps used to take place, IIRC, around the time of the Accounts publication, and were usually accompanied by a statement that the debt was reduced :dunno:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by s.a.m

...and if you were a gambling man, the alternative might, hypothetically and allegedly :wink:, be...?



The debt for equity swaps used to take place, IIRC, around the time of the Accounts publication, and were usually accompanied by a statement that the debt was reduced :dunno:

---

Still think it was window dressing, but not so sure for who's benefit. Whereas, previously, I thought it was for HMFC's benefit (ie to stave off any insolvency event)... now I tend to think it was for the benefit of the Lith Stock Exchange. UBIG's own Balance Sheet might be viewed more favourably with an investment in a "football club with clear European potential" :greengrin than a loan to a company that was clearly bust.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

That was my understanding at the time.

The implication was that, by moving the debts to equity, HMFC's Balance Sheet appeared to be stronger. That made sense at the time, from the perspective of HMFC.

Now, with the benefit of hindsight and a clearer picture of the group's overall activities, I'm not so sure.

---

They even managed a new slant on it in the 2011 - 12 accounts. Debt for imaginary transfer fees.

£ 2.9 million added to their income side by UBIG because of an "agreement" with Kaunus FC they did'nt honour. Pure Fraud , but I doubt the SFA will even know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Still think it was window dressing, but not so sure for who's benefit. Whereas, previously, I thought it was for HMFC's benefit (ie to stave off any insolvency event)... now I tend to think it was for the benefit of the Lith Stock Exchange. UBIG's own Balance Sheet might be viewed more favourably with an investment in a "football club with clear European potential" :greengrin than a loan to a company that was clearly bust.

---

:aok:

Just so it's not forgotten, Mr David Holmes of Johnston Carmichael was the auditor that was happy to sign off Hearts accounts in April 2013, 72 days before Hearts entered administration.

I'm going the Sally Bercow route.

Money laundering.

Where's the innocent face smiley ?:duck:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Treadstone

I'm going the Sally Bercow route.

Money laundering.

Where's the innocent face smiley ?:duck:

---

Didn't she get sued, though? :cb

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Didn't she get sued, though? :cb

---

Aye, but i will use the twitter followers defence (not enough).:thumbsup:

ps and lost!

There's not a hope on this earth that Angelo Massone will pass the "fit and proper person" test after what the ******* did to Livingston so FOH really must the only option now if the HMFC/Club 9 bid is in doubt.

If they're their own white knight, they're up the proverbial creek.

So the shoe salesman is a Walter Mitty Massone is dodgy and the foh is stuck together with chewing gum no CVA Will be agreed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Treadstone

Aye, but i will use the twitter followers defence (not enough).:thumbsup:

ps and lost!

---

Are you as good-looking as her, though? :greengrin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sidneyhibbie

So the shoe salesman is a Walter Mitty Massone is dodgy and the foh is stuck together with chewing gum no CVA Will be agreed

---

Time for Allisbarry to come along with some nonsense to cheer them up. What great creative masterpiece will he pen today? C'mon Barry lets be having you. :greengrin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by desantos0773

Magic beans the Lith tax payer is now paying £65 million in real money for. Romanov did it just to make it look like the debt was not spiralling out of control.

---

I think the debt for equity swap improved the books by swapping debt for an "asset". Obviously, this was only superficial, and if any actually looked at Hearts for a second then alarm bells would have gone off.