Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[CropleyWasGod]

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Ditto

[Hibs Class]

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Good old Banderson, back in the Scotsman hot seat. Failed to work in a disparaging comment about Hibs into his story though - he'll be disappointed with himself there.

He redeemed himself in his match report on the admin cup - which started "WINNING trophies whilst in administration is a rare feat. Livingston managed it, beating Hibs in the 2004 League Cup final."

[MB62]

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No.

Is there not rule that says you are not allowed to say NO and spoil the ongoing fun?

[#FromTheCapital]

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It looks like it's all quiet on the liquidation front for the time being. With Jackson saying it will take 3-4 weeks to go through the 'bids', we may as well start looking forward to a European adventure, St Johnstone's first 3 points of the season on 3rd August and our kick-off on the 4th.

Under 3 weeks until the new league campaign starts, time for this thread to take a well earned summer holiday!

Will be a short break as greenginger says the SPL inquiry is later this week.

For the next few days this thread should just be for anyone who wants to post random abuse about our pink neighbours :jmcp:

[Liberal Hibby]

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He redeemed himself in his match report on the admin cup - which started "WINNING trophies whilst in administration is a rare feat. Livingston managed it, beating Hibs in the 2004 League Cup final."

It was always going to be a stretch for the teams involved not to duplicate Livingston's achievement...

[CropleyWasGod]

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Is there not rule that says you are not allowed to say NO and spoil the ongoing fun?

There bloody should be.

If there was, I'd be able to stay off here and get some real work done.

[brog]

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Is there not a rule that says each club has to be able to provide the finances to see themselves through to the end of each season?
With BDO saying they have the money for the next 3 or 4 months, shirley that is in contravention of the rules?

It's a bit of a stretch but rule C9.2 does cover it to some extent. Basically says that if SPFL has any doubt re the ability of a member to fulfil all or any fixtures through the season the SPFL will withhold funding. Problem is it would have to be a cast iron certainty, say liquidation, before SPFL would take that action IMO.

[green is good]

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He redeemed himself in his match report on the admin cup - which started "WINNING trophies whilst in administration is a rare feat. Livingston managed it, beating Hibs in the 2004 League Cup final."

I'm sure the admin cup will have been put on display in a prominent position.

In cash cash converters window.


Sent fae ma ayePad wi Tapatalk

[CropleyWasGod]

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It's a bit of a stretch but rule C9.2 does cover it to some extent. Basically says that if SPFL has any doubt re the ability of a member to fulfil all or any fixtures through the season the SPFL will withhold funding. Problem is it would have to be a cast iron certainty, say liquidation, before SPFL would take that action IMO.

... which is a bit of a chicken-and-egg position. "if we think you don't have the funds, we won't give you any. Then you're really screwed."

I am in two minds about having something more concrete. On the one hand, it would help certainty and clarity for other clubs, TV, sponsors etc.

But how would you enforce it? Ask for an audit of each club's forecasts before the season starts? Have it on a self-assessment basis, like the "fit and proper" rules? The latter would be abused, and in the former an auditor would have enough qualifications and disclaimers to render such a certificate useless.

And then, after all that, if a club failed during the season, how would you punish them?

I think I have read that, in some countries, there is a bond system, where clubs put one up to guarantee their season's completion. Depending on the size of such a bond (I think it is, or used to be, £100k for agents, for example), that could be a pretty hefty one-off expense for most clubs.

[jacomo]

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He redeemed himself in his match report on the admin cup - which started "WINNING trophies whilst in administration is a rare feat. Livingston managed it, beating Hibs in the 2004 League Cup final."

Ha ha I missed that. Bet he was so smug when he filed that copy, he's probably spent the rest of the day making 5-1 signs to himself in the mirror.

What a pathetic excuse for a journalist that man is.

[Bostonhibby]

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He redeemed himself in his match report on the admin cup - which started "WINNING trophies whilst in administration is a rare feat. Livingston managed it, beating Hibs in the 2004 League Cup final."

Jeez, can't we just put this welt out the way by either finding oot where he lives or organising a giant cake bake to buy a controlling interest in the owners of the EEN and then sacking him. There has to be more to his "profession" than simply "subtly" baiting the fans who happen to be rivals of your favourite team.

[#FromTheCapital]

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Jeez, can't we just put this welt out the way by either finding oot where he lives or organising a giant cake bake to by a controlling interest in the owners of the EEN and then sacking him. There has to be more to his "profession" than simply "subtly" baiting the fans who happen to be rivals of your favourite team.

According to Barry he's not even a hearts fan, although that's hard to believe just like everything else that he says. He's certainly got a lot of hate for us hibbies though, possibly something to do with the torrents of abuse he receives on a daily basis from us

[Treadstone]

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Will be a short break as greenginger says the SPL inquiry is later this week.

For the next few days this thread should just be for anyone who wants to post random abuse about our pink neighbours :jmcp:

Had a wee Twitter exchange with a 'journalist' of the Yam persuasion. Matthew Leslie (@mattleslie74, me neither!). The yam who organised the glorified raffle the other week was angry that BDO didn't accept the Holt bid and Leslie called him out over it. To which i replied "Correct, who gives two f***s about the admin staff."

He replied with a link to the 5-1 report, where do they get the creativity ? I told him "Great result for you guys. Do you have any links to your work ?"

He has blocked me even though i never followed him, his timeline is like a BBC testcard got access to a twitter account, boring doesn't do it justice.

Anyway just letting off steam during the Yambogeddon down time.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Had a wee Twitter exchange with a 'journalist' of the Yam persuasion. Matthew Leslie (@mattleslie74, me neither!). The yam who organised the glorified raffle the other week was angry that BDO didn't accept the Holt bid and Leslie called him out over it. To which i replied "Correct, who gives two f***s about the admin staff."

He replied with a link to the 5-1 report, where do they get the creativity ? I told him "Great result for you guys. Do you have any links to your work ?"

He has blocked me even though i never followed him, his timeline is like a BBC testcard got access to a twitter account, boring doesn't do it justice.

Anyway just letting off steam during the Yambogeddon down time.

Out of interest, why was he angry that the Holt bids were turned down?

[down-the-slope]

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Don't get wide and ask for statistics, because I could just ask you for the same thing.

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I'm glad your back Mikey (good Hol?) as you can see there are people trying to spoil the MB by requiring facts to back up claims

As i'm sure you are well aware it could well be the thin end of the wedge that leads to dramatic reductions in the level of posting if we are required to provide 'facts' and 'justifications' for our various ramblings......























































Mental as ever

[Keith_M]

Regarding the Holt bid: I can understand it being turned down. If they have any aspirations of running a football team this season, they can't let players go, as they have no way to replace them.

[Bostonhibby]

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According to Barry he's not even a hearts fan, although that's hard to believe just like everything else that he says. He's certainly got a lot of hate for us hibbies though, possibly something to do with the torrents of abuse he receives on a daily basis from us

To be fair daily is about the best most of us can manage, he tends to go into print once a day and most of us have day jobs, but if anyone out there is able to devote a bit more time to it more power to them

Edit - also he does look like a yam

[Treadstone]

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Out of interest, why was he angry that the Holt bids were turned down?

The story that started it (Wilson is quoted in it) and a few tweets.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/f...forest-2054467

Craig Wilson ‏@Real_C_Wilson6h
Like everyone I'd love Jason to stay as a Hearts player and I agree 100k in normal circumstances isn't good value BUT we are on our knees.

Craig Wilson ‏@Real_C_Wilson5h
Next bit. I've never claimed to represent any fans, I was asked my opinion on club refusing a 6 figure bid for a player

Craig Wilson ‏@Real_C_Wilson4h
Granted the Record mentioned what we achieved with Rally, but again that's insignificant and unconnected. I simply gave my opinion

[CyberSauzee]

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Spoilsport

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Don't think so somehow, SFA or is it SPL inquiry into collapse of the Yams this week.

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Will be a short break as greenginger says the SPL inquiry is later this week.

For the next few days this thread should just be for anyone who wants to post random abuse about our pink neighbours :jmcp:

Well done GG - you can always be relied upon to have a finger on the pulse - of a terminally ill patient I should add

[jgl07]

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... which is a bit of a chicken-and-egg position. "if we think you don't have the funds, we won't give you any. Then you're really screwed."

I am in two minds about having something more concrete. On the one hand, it would help certainty and clarity for other clubs, TV, sponsors etc.

But how would you enforce it? Ask for an audit of each club's forecasts before the season starts? Have it on a self-assessment basis, like the "fit and proper" rules? The latter would be abused, and in the former an auditor would have enough qualifications and disclaimers to render such a certificate useless.

And then, after all that, if a club failed during the season, how would you punish them?

I think I have read that, in some countries, there is a bond system, where clubs put one up to guarantee their season's completion. Depending on the size of such a bond (I think it is, or used to be, £100k for agents, for example), that could be a pretty hefty one-off expense for most clubs.

Speedway operate a bond system. The authorities have been burned several times by promotions not able to finish a season. Now to enter any of the professional leagues a bond must be deposited.

The SPL had to pay to keep Gretna on life support for half a season. They could be stung again if Hearts are allowed to start this coming season. In hindsight it is obvious that Gretna were heading for a fall. The business model of playing home matches at Motherwell with a core support of 1,000 was bound to fail. Hearts look equally unsustainable.

Hearts' administrators have admitted that they do not have the cash to go much beyond the start of the season. If the SPFL allow Hearts in on a wing and a prayer, they must bear the consequences.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Speedway operate a bond system. The authorities have been burned several times by promotions not able to finish a season. Now to enter any of the professional leagues a bond must be deposited.

The SPL had to pay to keep Gretna on life support for half a season. They could be stung again if Hearts are allowed to start this coming season. In hindsight it is obvious that Gretna were heading for a fall. The business model of playing home matches at Motherwell with a core support of 1,000 was bound to fail. Hearts look equally unsustainable.

Hearts' administrators have admitted that they do not have the cash to go much beyond the start of the season. If the SPFL allow Hearts in on a wing and a prayer, they must bear the consequences.

Interesting about speedway. Cheers.

I am guessing (it's all it can be) that the SPFL have had many discussions with BDO. Apparently, there were similar conversations during the Rangers story, which were bound by confidentiality. Perhaps they, too, have raised the issue of a bond....speculation, of course.... but a bond would almost certainly kill them off.

The SPFL have to consider their own legal position, too.... and, indeed, will probably be examining their insurance cover. It's perhaps fortunate in that respect that there is no sponsor yet, but a TV company might take a dim view of a 12-team league suddenly contracting halfway through the season.

As you say, the Gretna story has probably concentrated a few minds.

[brog]

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The story that started it (Wilson is quoted in it) and a few tweets.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/f...forest-2054467

Craig Wilson ‏@Real_C_Wilson6h
Like everyone I'd love Jason to stay as a Hearts player and I agree 100k in normal circumstances isn't good value BUT we are on our knees.

Craig Wilson ‏@Real_C_Wilson5h
Next bit. I've never claimed to represent any fans, I was asked my opinion on club refusing a 6 figure bid for a player

Craig Wilson ‏@Real_C_Wilson4h
Granted the Record mentioned what we achieved with Rally, but again that's insignificant and unconnected. I simply gave my opinion

The guy Wilson came across quite well. He made the point that admin staff had lost their jobs, that fans had been fleeced over shares & that various groups had donated to Yams. He, understandably IMO made the point that if Yams have guaranteed income in a normal sense, ie a player sale, they should be taking it rather than begging for unusual income support.
I still feel that BDO are at best skewing their adminstrative responsibilities by turning bids down, they're accountants not football managers.

[CropleyWasGod]

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The guy Wilson came across quite well. He made the point that admin staff had lost their jobs, that fans had been fleeced over shares & that various groups had donated to Yams. He, understandably IMO made the point that if Yams have guaranteed income in a normal sense, ie a player sale, they should be taking it rather than begging for unusual income support.
I still feel that BDO are at best skewing their adminstrative responsibilities by turning bids down, they're accountants not football managers.

Devil's Advocate question here.... as I'm not wholly convinced by either side of the argument.

The Yams have, what, 18/20 players? Given that BDO have to try and preserve a going concern, both to attract a buyer and to secure a reasonable future... and that there is a signing ban which will probably continue after this week's meeting..........what if, come November, there is a spate of injuries and suspensions that reduces the available squad to, say, 12 players? In hindsight, would it be seen as irresponsible of BDO to let a player go?

Damned if they do, etc etc.

The floor is open....

[Spike Mandela]

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Devil's Advocate question here.... as I'm not wholly convinced by either side of the argument.

The Yams have, what, 18/20 players? Given that BDO have to try and preserve a going concern, both to attract a buyer and to secure a reasonable future... and that there is a signing ban which will probably continue after this week's meeting..........what if, come November, there is a spate of injuries and suspensions that reduces the available squad to, say, 12 players? In hindsight, would it be seen as irresponsible of BDO to let a player go?

Damned if they do, etc etc.

The floor is open....

Football administration is a nest of vipers, inhabited by crooks. I would trust used car salesmen more.

[Makaveli]

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The guy Wilson came across quite well. He made the point that admin staff had lost their jobs, that fans had been fleeced over shares & that various groups had donated to Yams. He, understandably IMO made the point that if Yams have guaranteed income in a normal sense, ie a player sale, they should be taking it rather than begging for unusual income support.
I still feel that BDO are at best skewing their adminstrative responsibilities by turning bids down, they're accountants not football managers.

The guy is good friends with a mate of mine, and he's a decent enough guy who cares deeply for the wrong club.

The way kickback rounded on him with personal abuse is shocking but to be expected. They've been like that with dissenters for years now.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Football administration is a nest of vipers, inhabited by crooks. I would trust used car salesmen more.

Really, Spike?

You kept that quiet.

[Jack]

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Devil's Advocate question here.... as I'm not wholly convinced by either side of the argument.

The Yams have, what, 18/20 players? Given that BDO have to try and preserve a going concern, both to attract a buyer and to secure a reasonable future... and that there is a signing ban which will probably continue after this week's meeting..........what if, come November, there is a spate of injuries and suspensions that reduces the available squad to, say, 12 players? In hindsight, would it be seen as irresponsible of BDO to let a player go?

Damned if they do, etc etc.

The floor is open....

Given there previous on discipline having 12 available might be more an ambition.

On a more general point you, in your debate, seem to be shifting the victim to the yams rather than the creditors they've screwed and other clubs of points i.e. prize money and European slots.

You are asking the real victims to be victims once again. They've made their bed blah, blah, big team, 1902, 5.1, 2013 RIP etc..

[Dunderhall]

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I still feel that BDO are at best skewing their adminstrative responsibilities by turning bids down, they're accountants not football managers.

I'm not sure I agree. They don't need the income at this point, they might argue not at all.
They are accountants like you say, so they would have sought third party advice I assume.
If the offer for Holt was close to market value and they declined then I'd agree with your point.
Even taking into consideration their current circumstances I don't think £100,100 was reasonable.

They did make a commitment for season ticket sales about no fire sales.
They had to stick to that to keep the fans on side, not impossible they may have to call on them again and their reputation will carry forward to the next football club they handle in admin.

If the offer was more reasonable then they could have argued it wasn't a fire sale, I don't accept they should accept any 6 figure sum that the Wilson guy was arguing.
That wouldn't change what's gone.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Given there previous on discipline having 12 available might be more an ambition.

On a more general point you, in your debate, seem to be shifting the victim to the yams rather than the creditors they've screwed and other clubs of points i.e. prize money and European slots.

You are asking the real victims to be victims once again. They've made their bed blah, blah, big team, 1902, 5.1, 2013 RIP etc..

I'm not shifting that victim status at all.... as I said, I'm in 2 minds about the situation, and am willing to be convinced either way.

One point, though. The creditors have more chance of getting something in a CVA if there are, say, 20 players than they would if there were only 15. The former would be more attractive to a buyer.

[Dashing Bob S]

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The guy is good friends with a mate of mine, and he's a decent enough guy who cares deeply for the wrong club.

The way kickback rounded on him with personal abuse is shocking but to be expected. They've been like that with dissenters for years now.

Yes, Craig is a smart, decent fellow. Unfortunately for him, and lucky for us, he, and those like him, are unlikely to get much of a hearing in Yamland. The default settings are deluded arrogance and self-pitying victimhood, and any Yam who doesn't do these (and there are a few) are pretty much wasting their time.

Good news for us, as these people lack the fundamental skill set to make a useful contribution to the saving of stamps, let alone a football club.

There has never in recorded human history, been a group of wheezing, shrivel-lunged paedophille asbestos victims who have successfully rescued a sporting club and, regarding events in Gorgie, one confidently expects this pattern to continue.