Add Falkirk to the list, and they need 22 SFL clubs to approve their application.
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Add Falkirk to the list, and they need 22 SFL clubs to approve their application.
So only 2 more say no and they are done?
Stirling Albion to consult trust members.
How remiss of me, will try tae dae better next time :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
The increasing alacrity with which some people either cry that they are finished with football or demand the resignation of our Chairman is staggering beyond belief. Even more so when the statements are based on reports in a media that is regularly condemned even more vehemently.
Can we just change the name of this website to kneejerk.com ?
The fans are here today gone tomorrow? WTF? Beyond contempt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig speakingootmyerchy Burley
If its true that this 75% is written somewhere and its now been changed to suit newco and this suddenly necessary reconstruction I will be sick. There's absolutely no end to the corruption!Quote:
Originally Posted by BEEJ
SPL clubs are worried that Sky will cancel their five-year TV deal worth £80m if the top flight went without a Rangers team for more than a season. (Sunday Times)
Good :aok:
Good to see where the Fife clubs stand. :aok:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitlochry hibee
Good ol' Fifers. :greengrin
Template of next survey
When I first had the idea for the site it was always with League reconstruction in mind, however when the Rangers story broke I put it on the back burner.
Now with it being discussed I have done some work on the idea and have attached a sneak preview based on my idea's.
Folow link to first draft: http://cl.ly/2k1q1X1B272V3U3S2l3M
The intention was to invite feedback and look to how we could structure questions relating to it as a survey, this is a a first draft.
Basically I have based it on finishing positions in Scottish leagues last season.
The idea is a 30 match league season preceded by the opening stages of the League cup in a group format similar to the old days.
However on this occasion seed teams into 8 pots based on their finish in league the previous season and the top seeds are drawn with one in each group.
Second & subsequent seeds are then placed into groups on a regional basis to create interest through derby matches which in turn will hopefully lead to increased media & sponsorship interest with hopefully bigger gates.
Doing this creates a 40 game season then knockout stages & Scottish cup ties on top.
We are looking for feedback positive or negative with suggestions on how to structure it as a survey.
Feel free to email us or post in here.
email: [email protected]
Bill & Mark
Great news indeed. :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mainboy19
The game has some hope yet.
What should it be about then Craig? People that have never put a penny into Scottish football in their lives, like you. C*ck!Quote:
Originally Posted by Twa Cairpets
I agree about people jumping the gun about Petrie. He might well hold a position of power but let's wait until there's actual proof he had a hand in the propaganda piece.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seveno
If the media aren't pro-rangers they still like looking for sensational headlines and interesting twists...which sometimes come from nothing more than an educated punt!
Let's wait and see.
What an absolute prick of a man:grr: These people just don't get it! They just can't see past the ££££ and their love for the OFQuote:
Originally Posted by grunt
The document exists, somebody or some group of people compiled it. Any of the people refusing tae deny their involvement in it can surely expect such allegations. It would be very easy for Petrie or anybody else tae put a stop tae any allegations in their direction by coming out denying their involvement and by speaking out against it. The fact that neither Petrie nor anybody else who has been fingered has done so can only lead tae increased suspicion and further allegation of their involvement.Quote:
Originally Posted by peterdouglas
So far the public statements all indicate a desire to stamp on Sevco 5088 sneaking into Division One rather than stand on it.
:top marks for those clubs.
Electronic Tims @ETimsNet
SoS A Smith names @StewartRegan Rod Petrie of HIbs, Neil Doncaster & David Longmuir as men behind "threats" to SFL clubs & inc of Newco.
:)))Quote:
Originally Posted by BOVRIL
Looks like that might not be the case, as was pointed out by Andrew Smith in today's SoS:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitlochry hibee
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...sage-1-2386605Quote:
Clearly, the powerbrokers have misjudged the public mood again. There is every chance that the raft of proposals, which include play-offs to the SPL, £1 million being filtered through the three tiers of the SFL, merger of the two league bodies and a pyramid system below the senior set-up, oh and Green’s Rangers starting off life just outside Scottish football’s highest level, won’t garner the necessary support. Even when the threshold figure for forcing through this “special case” scenario seems to have dropped from 23 clubs out of 30, to 16 clubs.
Incredible, if this is the case.
I still don't see many wanting to let them in. I hope they get booted down. They've been punished and now they're starting over
I'm not in favour of adding another six clubs to the existing forty one, plus the vacancy created by the demise of the Huns which will be filled by Sevco 5088.
The simplest solution would be to have two leagues of twenty, two up/two down automatically and a play off between third bottom and third/fourth/fifth in Division Two. There would then be a regional structure below this, and two of the Third Division Clubs would have to be relegated to the regional leagues at the start.
Im in two minds here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mainboy19
Either, this is true. Or, the media has a long history of having no love for Rod for various reasons, our lack of leaks to the press, playing hard ball with the Old Firm and presumably more recently for being the first Chairman to start making statements against a newco... Could they be trying to blacken his name? It's a possibility.
Of course his position at the SFA suggests he has to of at least seen this document before it went out, but again that could mean anything from he wrote it while twirling his moustache to him refusing to even proof read it.
A statement from the man himself is required.
I can understand why some SPL clubs want to go down the route of maintaining the TV money and Div 1 will help that happen. Am guessing Dundee Utd, Kilmarnock and possibly one or two others could well follow into administration (possible liquidation) if they were to lose out on the income from TV. Should these clubs suffer from Rangers wrong doing, possibly not although how will we learn the lessons to fund our football without the same huge reliance on TV companies who do not have the interest of fans at heart.
What I struggle with is how can any governing body have any input to this proposal when there is an outstanding investigation into possible Rangers wrong doing. If they are found guilty but then created this situation where Rangers go into Div 1 then there is very limited scope for punishment as they are not then going to suspend them or demote them. Does this mean that the authorities are now not really going to follow through on their investigation and it becomes a whitewash - if that's the case I would imagine there must be scope for some sort of class action by fans to take individuals to task.
Beginning to believe the SFL clubs can save Scottish football. Hopefully they'll maintain their stance and vote no to newco in division 1 (would be even better if they also voted no to newco in div 3 too, but I'll settle for them starting there). Also hope that the threatened breakaway SPL2 falls flat on its face, as the revolution would hopefully see the resignation of Doncaster and Longmuir (possibly Regan too, not sure what his perceived silence actually tells us, and I've seen a few comments on here that he's not all that bad, so giving him the benefit ot the doubt for now). Petrie is an entirely different matter, and obviously from a Hibs point of view, a separate matter as to what he resigns from. But again, his silence asks more questions than gives answers.
If the SFL clubs can help us bring some integrity back to the game, I'm more than happy to head along to some SFL games to show my support. They deserve the extra cash, but not through backhanded deals of tv money or whatever else the SPL is trying to sell to them.
My own views are largely correlated with what you have provided there. However IMO Scottish football doesn't have the depth for 48 league teams.
My view is that there should be two leagues of 16, two up and two down with playoffs for third spot as you have said. That would provide 3 spaces per year in Division two to be filled from the regional leagues. I think there should be three regions, Highland, West and East. The top teams in each region per season would be promoted to Division Two. Relegated teams would go down to their region based on location.
Under this scenario the League Cup would take on the Champions League format of 32 teams split into 8 groups. Teams would be seeded based on league pos and play twice, which would only add six games to the 30 league games minimum. Gate receipts would be equally shared amongst all group members. Therefore domestically, if the Scottish Cup follows the same format, a top division side would only have to play a maximum of 46 games if they reached the final of both competitions (Replays could add to this). At the moment a maximum of 48 games (minus replays again) is possible so not much variance.
I understand that in my previous post there would need to be 10 teams removed from the current league setup. This would probably be the least popular thing I suggested and could be compromised with an inbetween league of some sort. Open to suggestions on that front though!!
There are lots of possibilities to restructure the leagues in a way that will make scottish football unique and fresh and potentially exciting again for fans. This proposal is one that I like and have posted about doing something similar before while aligning it with a move to summer football but at the moment my personal favourite, while remaining in a winter season is something like this:
Leagues of 16, Play a round of 30 matches 1 home and 1 away.
League is split into groups of 4 based on league positions (1st to 4th, 5th to 8th, 9th to 12th and 13th to 16th) and points from previous round wiped. Mini leagues would start with the highest placed team on 3 points, 2nd on 2, 3rd on 1 and 4th on 0 and another round of 6 matches 1 home and 1 away played in each mini league giving a full 36 game season with an even number of home and away matches for each team and a few weeks in winter for a mid-season break.
at the end of the season the positions in the leagues determine who wins what:
1st - champions & CL place
2nd - CL Place
3rd - Europa League
4th - Europa League Playoff v 5th (winner of two legged match gets the europa place)
5th - Europa League Playoff v 4th (winner of two legged match gets the europa place)
6th - n/a
7th - n/a
8th - n/a
9th - n/a
10th - n/a
11th - n/a
12th - Relegation playoff v 14th (loser enters play-off tournament with 1st division sides)
13th - stay in SPL
14th - Relegation playoff v 12th (loser enters play-off tournament with 1st division sides)
15th - Auto relegated
16th - Auto relegated
1st division would be the same structure but top 2 earn promotion, 3rd 4th and 5th enter play-off tournament
4 teams in play-off tournament play each other once at neutral venues over 1 week with winners getting place in the SPL.
This is a cracking line...Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
"It must not be about satisfying the wishes of too many fans who are here today and gone tomorrow."
The ONLY constant IS the fans, all of whom have been ignored for far too long. Burley is just another cheating apologist who has no concept of the crimes that the Huns have committed - only MONEY MONEY MONEY. You really have to wonder about the MORALS of Burley and his like.
I don't doubt that Petrie saw the SFL document before it went out, and before he made his latest statement on the Hibs website. Which makes his choice of words in that statement all the more worrying - suggesting that it was all in the hands of some other people and nothing to do with Hibs or him any more. That's just patently not true (a lie in other words). He has a lot of explaining to do, and might have to fall on his sword if he is a driver behind the SFL doc.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottB
I'm a fan of the 16 size league but surely competition in the middle 1/3rd of the season could be hampered if point gaps begin to develop. If a team gets too far behind the 'mini league' in front then there is less incentive to pick up points as they are all but wiped at the 30 game stage. There is also the issue of the team finishing 13th staying in SPL and team that finishes 12th having a Relegation Playoff. I understand this is to keep excitement for teams 9th to 12th but there surely has to be more incentive to finish 12th rather than 13th?Quote:
Originally Posted by MyJo
It is a complex world and sometimes things are just not quite that easy. However, I see that you believe in the concept of guilty unless proved innocent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Desperate Dan
Burley is a thicko, and this article inforces that....He just does not get it at all.....Rangers are no more, and have to apply for status....The paragraph about the fans is laughable and stupid....Prize plum Burley.....Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
He said that it was now up to the SFL clubs to decide. Where is the lie in that ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Onion
I believe that people who have nothing tae hide should have nae fear of speaking out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seveno
Is that up tae the SFL clubs tae decide of their ain own volition or is it up tae the SFL clubs tae decide with bribes and threats in a document put before them? (by somebody or some group)Quote:
Originally Posted by Seveno
What a prize plum indeed, I honestly can't believe some of the comments in that article. He slates a couple of players that have left and goes on to slate the spl chairmen and fans aswell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldy Foghorn
Idiot of the highest order.
He is a dick, cant wait to slag everything about Scottish football when commentating, as if he was some superstar when he played?Quote:
Originally Posted by SMAXXA
He was another greedy twat too, when taking the Dundee money way back when they were throwing it about like confetti.
I agree, he's not got the ability to write something like this, even when its that poor.
http://www.facebook.com/groups/317152558377256/
Over 300 members in the first day - all welcome :-)
His judgement wasnt great when he went to dundee either iirc he played one game against hibs got sent of in the first half then got made redundent on the monday morning the man is a tit who doesnt have a clue whats going onQuote:
Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs
afraid I dinnae use facebook but keep up the good work whatever it is :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Parfect
will rangers get into the 3rd div or is that no a bit unfair on the junior,senior,lower league teams who have been waiting to get in for years:confused:
They should certainly be down there applying along with those clubs that's for sureQuote:
Originally Posted by leggeto
Agreed 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by Desperate Dan
The 3rd division clubs get a vote too yea?
You would be right. I heard the SFL will need to pull in independent lawyers to identify their rules and regulations - this has all the makings of corruption.Quote:
Originally Posted by peterdouglas
What? - a league that does not know it owns rules? :rules:
Sometimes it's what you're not saying that lets everyone know if you are being truthful or not - the statement's a shocker - the guy's a liarQuote:
Originally Posted by Seveno
just like Doncaster, Regan, etc. He knew and he sold Hibs fans up the river - someone else on here said they did not believe he could lie -
do me a favour FFS - if the SFA had anything to do with this he's in it up to his neck - he's a:bandit:.
:agree: Once the non Hun fans have sorted Rangers out surely its possible to then get an effective campaign going to cancel Sky subscriptions in response? You never know this might make them think about it. I'd certainly cancel mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mainboy19
Aye ... right enough ... one things for sure, admittance to the SFL has got nothing to do with how long a club has waited to get in.Quote:
Originally Posted by leggeto
Let me think ... a handfull of clubs with seating for 200 and standing room for 2,000 more, with no prospect of ever growing their fanbase or ever having a hope of changing the demographics of Scottish football.
Lets look at some the clubs who have been admitted recently:
Annan Athetic ....... doing what ?
Peterhead .... what impact have they made ?
Inverness Caledonian Thistle .... most disappointing of all IMO ... there was a club from a town where you were guaranteed a good crowd for Scottish cup ties when it had only Highland league clubs. I thought it was brilliant when ICT joined the league .. heres a club who can be the next Dundee Utd and really bring something to the table was my thinking.
Instead of that they have a rubbish stadium and home crowds of about 4,000.
So lets be realistic .... newco current buns should be a shoe in for SFL membership. Its one thing cutting off your nose to spite you face. Its quite another cutting off your whole bloody head.
Dont ya think ?
Celtc abstain simples!Quote:
Originally Posted by BEEJ
Qveastion next!
With friends like this, who needs enemies?
Giovanni di Stefano writes to UEFA demanding that Rangers newco should be admitted to SPL.
:greengrin
No i dont think, would the same rules apply if we were talking about Hibs?Quote:
Originally Posted by BOVRIL
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOVRIL
Oh I dont know. If its 4000, that's about 7% of Inverness's population. Arabs at say 7000 is 4.5%. We run at about 2.5%
But I do agree with you about huns coming into div 3. Thats the right place.
yeah but an abstain is as good as a yes so will make there supporter clubs a bit foolish as they were all for boycoting all us little clubs if we did the same!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by VivaPalmeiras
morals of an ally cat :cb
The problem for the gers fans and beauty for Sky is Sky has bundled Spl in with other leagues as far as I'm aware you can't say EPL, Serie A, La Liga and Bundesliga only but no SPL. So it's all or nothigQuote:
Originally Posted by Bostonhibby
Would the same rules apply if Newcastle or Sunderland were trying to get in?Quote:
Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs
Thats besides the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOVRIL
They are a new club, therefore they should start at the very bottom of it all like any other new club.
Get in where? The SPL?Quote:
Originally Posted by Filled Rolls
Using a cross-border comparison makes no sense in this context.
Why, have they gone bust, have they moved the boundaries, and do they fit the right criteria needed to join the SFL?Quote:
Originally Posted by Filled Rolls
I used them as an example because they applied to the Scottish League in the 30s.Quote:
Originally Posted by magpie1892
No, hypothetical question. What I'm really asking is would the leagues turn away any club that could bring a big fan base to the competition?Quote:
Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs
Your question is really, could Newcastle or Sunderland buy a place in the SPL or the division below?Quote:
Originally Posted by Filled Rolls
Audi have just pulled the plug on their sponsorship deal with oldrangers, 45 motors to be handed back tomorrow.
On yir bikes boys :na na:
Yes, because that's what Rangers are trying to do. The point has been made about smaller clubs who should get a chance in front of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs
Someone else said would you allow a club with a 2000 seat stadium, and hard core fan base of 500 into the league in front of a club with a 50,000 seat stadium and fan base of, well, quite a lot.
The question we need to answer is this, is the league set up so teams can generate revenue through regular fixtures that bring big crowds. Or, is it set up purely as a sporting competition.
Personally, I'd rather see the second, because the theory that big clubs are good for our game has been shown to be flawed. However, it's only right to consider the original reason football leagues were set up - to generate cash.
Why would they want to?Quote:
Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs
Your from Gala Bovril so you should be aware that Fairydean have made a number of applications to join the football league and are far more worthy of involvement than the Hun.
They had their go and blew it, so someone else should be given the opportunity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOVRIL
No idea, it was FH's question? :wink: I just want whoever it is thats wanting to apply, just apply using the rules that are in place. Its a simple as that for me, any changing of these rules as they stand now, is buying a place at a tier you have no right to play at.Quote:
Originally Posted by jgl07
Why were Hibs allowed to be relegated, when we have a support much bigger than most? Why was there no restructuring of leagues to try and save us? Why Mr Doncaster, why?
What if New Rangers struggle in Division 1, and are relegated? Will we see this again next season?
What happens to the next team to go bust, where do they apply to on the way back to Scottish football?
There's a million other questions too, when the rules are in place now to quash them.
CORRUPTION IS ALIVE AND WELL IN SCOTTISH FOOTBALL.
Yep, quite happy with nothing if I believe they are a factor in whatever shady deal is landed on.Quote:
Originally Posted by VivaPalmeiras
Ross County get similar crowds. What proportion of the population of Dingwall is that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Twa Cairpets
This may be a consequence of the forced merger of Caledonian and Thistle. I was told by an Inverness resident that a lot of supporters (from both Caledonian and Thistle) defected to Ross County after the merger.
ICT average home gate for 2011-2012 was 4023. United was 7482. ICT's highest 6623 (v. Rangers) and lowest 3035 (v. St. Johnstone) United's highest was 11471 (v. Aberdeen) and lowest was 5232 (v. Killie)Quote:
Originally Posted by Twa Cairpets
Ross County had an average of 2874 (up 21.9% on the previous season) with a high attendance of 4737 (v. hamilton) with a low of 2047 (v.Livi)
Work is underway to make Victoria Park a 6000 seater stadium. Interestingly the population of Dingwall itself is less than that.
So Fairydean in front of Sevco it is then.
Given my previous post about Gala Fairydean I would like to point out that Galashiels has a population three times that of Dingwall and Netherdale has an all weather 3G artificial surface.
Us fifers have balls and a refusal to to bend to pressure to change our views......stubborn buggers...Quote:
Originally Posted by wee_hibee
That`ll be the crooked lawyer that helped to practically finish off Dundee and the same shyster that was spouting some guff about being involved in a consortium, containing some royal family from Qatar (:faf:), that wanted to buy Cheats FC?Quote:
Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter
Dearie me......what part of cloud cuckoo land does this buffoon live on..
Any news on which way Cowdenbeath are going to vote?Quote:
Originally Posted by down-the-slope
"Thrawn" is the word yahoor! :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by down-the-slope
This proposal, if it's as I understand it, is actually worse than the proposal to reinstate the new Rangers into the SPL.
The idea that the new company would be admitted into the SFL and put into the highest division within that organisation is ludicrous in itself. Then the idea that the SPL would then pay the SFL around £1 million to be able to screen the new Rangers' matches beggars belief.
There is absolutely no way that this should be allowed to happen and all the clubs in the SFL should be uniting to ensure that it doesn't happen.
Anyone who is behind this proposal should be hanging their heads in shame and should be hounded out of Scottish football.
If there is going to be a new club coming into the Scottish leagues, it must be made to start in the lowest division.
If I was an Alloa fan just now, having just watched my team play a full season's worth of matches in the third division and getting promoted, on merit, to the second division, I would be absolutely disgusted at the thought of a brand new club being admitted into the SFL structure one division higher than my own team, without even kicking a single ball.
The Sky thing is scaremongering at its worst. They have just paid £3 billion for Premiership rights, why risk the bad publicity and cancellations from Scotland by pulling the plug on a deal that costs them chicken feed?
Trouble is they have nae shame so you'll be waiting a long time for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by FalkirkHibee
Quote:
Originally Posted by FalkirkHibee
Your just sayin that cause Alloa is near you.
I'm well aware of the Fairydean's efforts to get into the SFL in the past. But they are a classic example of what my post was about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser1962
In what possible context could the Fairydean bring anything to the table which would set them apart from Annan, Peterhead, Elgin etc. In football terms they would be as worthy of entry to the SFL as any other club. But the point is that we are talking about professional football and like it or not a decision to allow a club with 200 fans into a league in front of a club with a stadium fit to host International football and the ability, in time, to fill that stadium would be just stupid.
I want to see Scottish football back on an even keel, with fair play and fair finances. Part of that is to have as many big games as possible and historically Hibs v Rangers has been a match to look forward to. Do you think Hibs v Gala Fairydean is a suitable replacement for that?
Yes ... we could do without the bigotry, the arrogance and a few other things that Rangers have historically carried with them, but I want to see football working towards stamping that stuff out .... sure getting rid of Rangers ( in any form ) would go a long way to ending all that, but I would rather we did it through education and zero tolerance.
My final part of this argument is this ....... Rangers have cheated for 20 years, not 120 years .... yes I fkng hate them ... always have and always will, but watching Hibs beat a club 10 times bigger than us, on the few times we are able to do it, gives me a hell of a lot more pleasure than beating Motherwell or Aberdeen, or dare I say it ..... Gala Fairydean ... God bless em.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOVRIL
Akent Gala's goaly a few years back...Gary Loutit, Bit radge like.
So we should keep small teams that dae things properly out in favour of big teams that cheat just because they are big teams?Quote:
Originally Posted by BOVRIL
No, of course not. But the fact is that the legal entity notwithstanding, newhun is clearly a continuation of oldhun in on-the-pitch footballing terms. Same manager, some of the same players, probably same stadium. If it looks like the huns and smells like the huns, it probably the huns. Whether or not they have "their history" I dont care beyond taking the p!ss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Desperate Dan
I agree with Bovril, they should be punished for what they have done and our entirely rational loathing of them as an institution shouldnt blind us to the sporting element. It is more fun to beat the Hun than it is to beat, say, Raith.
They are beneath contempt and deserve what should happen to them, but what should happen to them is div 3.
My point was really made in my post after the one you quoted when I pointed out that Dingwall, with a population one third of Gala's, are preparing their club for the SPL having achieved that status fair and square. The big club, on the other hand, are going to be lucky if their custodians avoid prison.
Had we followed your argument Ross County should never have been allowed to enter the SFL, never mind the SPL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOVRIL
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOVRIL
Errm. Think about that for a second.
I think that the jury is still out on how much cheating Rangers have been responsible for. And I don't think that it is restricted to the last 20 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOVRIL
The dominance of Rangers and Celtic in Scottish football from the 1900s through to the Souness era cannot be explained other than by systematic corruption. Financial muscle was not really an issue until the pre-Souness era. Yet they monopolised most of the trophies bar a few spells of hegemony by other clubs - Hibs in the late 1940s early 1950s, Hearts in the late 1950s, Aberdeen and Dundee United in the early 1980s.
The situation saw Rangers and Celtic take every League Championship between 1904 and 1947 apart from Motherwell's win in 1931-32. I suspect that the wage rates were much the same for all clubs over this period. The only explanation is systematic corruption covering everything from referees to player registrations.
Over the same period in England, the trophies were shared around a lot more. The dominance of the big clubs only started after the end of the maximum wage. It only became marked in the Premier League era from the 1990s onwards.
In the 15 years, from 1971 to the start of the 'money' era in the 1986 season with souness/holmes and soon after minty moonbeams. When the start of spending money they never had began
The huns average attendance was 24,465.
During this time they won the league 3 times - r/u 3 times - third 4 times - 4th 3 times - 5th - 2 times.
They still won the european cup winners cup, 5 scottish cups, 6 league cups - which included 2 trebles.
In the same period Hibernians average was 10,352 (this included a season in the 1st div - if you excluded the attendance that season then the average for the other 14 seasons is 10,772)
During this time of course we won solitary 1 league cup, and a 1st division title because we were also relegated.
We finished the league 2nd x2 - 3rd x2 - 4th x2 - 5th x1 - 6th x2 - 7th x2 - 8th x2 - 10th(R) x1 & 1st div winners x1.
Despite that their atendances are not even 1.4 x our gates.
How did we ever survive!?!?!?
Any financial argument that insist der stickies must be back in the SPL asap is not based on them being in the league. It is only based on them having massive success and being absolutely dominant. They have only been able to manage this by cheating. ie spending money they never had, running up a bill, then running away from the said bill.
So if we are to find salvation in the 'orange pound' then we have to let them win with monotonous regularity.
The whole notion that we need their financial support for survival is based on the giant they became only because they were inflated with stolen hot air.
A pi$$ poor or even average rankers has no where near the same financial importance.
So do we roll over and let them tickle our bellies when they do get in the spl just so their supporters turn up.
Or do we take this opportunity to see exactly what we need to do to not have to rely on letting them win.
The welcome return of RangersTaxCase:
http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/...-penalty-19-2/
Good post reminding people about the way things were but this is now far removed from the combined strategy for "the good of the game".Quote:
Originally Posted by sadtom
Since the mid-nineties they authorities have encouraged a strategy of letting the old firm spearhead the Scottish game. They will become the big forces and bring success in Europe. This will have a knock-on/ trickle down effect for the other clubs...they will improve due to the financial benefits of the old-firm success and while they might not win trophies on a regular basis, they will be of a sufficient quality for the fans to stick with.
I'm sorry but it hasn't worked. Fans of the other clubs now realise that all the authorities are doing is trying to protect this model. It wouldn't suit the individuals in charge to really change football and distribute wealth around the clubs. They have the nerve to release documents telling people they are afraid of change yet the purpose of the document is to frighten clubs into thinking that any other way apart from the old, old-firm focused way is unacceptable!
Rangers are at the mercy of the rest of the clubs in Scotland, as are Celtic to an extent. I'm sure everyone would love a more "socialist" style of wealth distribution in the game which would result in more competition. Everyone apart from the old firm and the governing bodies of course!
The percentage of our population who attend football is one of the highest in Europe yet something like 70% of them go to see either one of two clubs! The crowds flock to Glasgow from cities and towns whose clubs are dying because people want to see purchased glory or revel in bigotry. The old firm and their media go mad at any concept of "unfair" wealth distribution but they should consider where their fans are from and who they are weakening by robbing their customer base. These issues should have been foreseen and addressed years ago and they are suddenly panicking now one of the behemoths has collapsed.
We're not a big enough country to artificially inflate two clubs and still expect others to maintain any level of competition. Apart from La Liga, how many other leagues have only two clubs who could ever dream about winning the top prize and the others have been ground down and conditioned to accept third place as top prize?
Good article but it's so frustrating as he is just stating the downright obvious yet we have the mainstream media, bar one channel 4 journalist and at times Jim Spence, continually spout pro Rangers propaganda.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
10/10Quote:
Originally Posted by sadtom
10.5/10Quote:
Originally Posted by peterdouglas
I have no problem with Ross County or any other club getting into the league. But this situation is different. If at the time the Staggies applied they had been up against a huge club and County had been let in over them we would all have thought the SFL had lost their minds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser1962
Yes in this instance the club concerned are a bunch of cheating barstewards, but it would be economic insanity to deny them entry to the SFL. Like it or not the SPL cubs have taken a huge financial hit over this.
To turn this on its head if it was any other club apart from rangers we wouldnt even be having this argument on this board.
No going tae quote both posts as they are long but :top marks tae sadtom & peterdouglas
We wouldnae be having it because any other club would have been punished properly by the authorities by now and kicked out and made tae start like Gretna in the east of Scotland league or equivalent. There's be nae bribery or blackmail threats tae let any other club back in at SFL 1, they wouldnae even get in at SFL 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOVRIL
It appears, to me at least, that you are arguing that Rangers are "too big to fail". If it is "economic insanity" not to let them into the SFL why kick them out the SPL in the first place? It would be a bit like banning a drink driver except on a Friday because you need a lift home.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOVRIL
Rangers, by failing to live by the same financial rules as the rest of us, have CHOSEN this route. They could have agreed to pay their creditors out the average £50m per year they bring in, but they didnt. it is worth remembering that if they had they allocated 50% of their income they would still have had more than three times the funds of any other club outwith Celtic, with their debts cleared in about 5 years. Realistically they could have set aside around 12.5% and continued but they CHOSE not to. Rather they have decided exactly what you are arguing, despite repeated attempts to leave the Scottish Football over the years, that Scottish football cannot survive without them and they have calculated that they can bump the taxman, the taxpayer, their fellow members, their european colleagues and local businesses and we will all accept this.
Remember that Rangers pushed Airdrie out of business for £30k. No one seemed to care about them. As Dan has already said there is precedent and that is Gretna and I dont recall anybody really fighting their corner, least of all Rangers.
They have gambled that we are are all buying their propoganda when I, for one, have zero sympathy for them. We will survive perfectly well so hell mend them.
Has the argument now become that newco shouldn't even get in to SFL3? The Newco gretna didn't get made to start in the East of Scotland league. Their lack of ground, support etc meant that they applied to the league that they were most suited to. Bovril may be drawing attention to some highly unpopular realities but there is merit in what he says. If a Newco rangers come up against the likes of Cove Rangers for entry to SFL3 then there is no doubt Newco Rangers would get the nod. The argument from many has that they should start at the bottom as they are a competely new team. We can't have it both ways by then claiming that they are the same team who cheated and shouldn't be considered for league membership on that basis. I would love it if they became totally extinct but given the massive size of their support that simply ain't gonna happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Desperate Dan
Airdrie United were allowed to apply for the vacancy in SFL3 when Airdrieonians went bust. They lost the vote to Gretna and then bought out Clydebank instead. Gretna 2008 didn't apply for the vacancy in SFL3 caused by Gretna going bust, but they could have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Desperate Dan
Excluding "new Rangers" from any SFL vote for a vacancy in SFL3 would be going beyond fair justice and precedent.
As I understand it a club applying for entry into the SFL is required to provide business plans and projections - that can only be so that the League can assess its suitability and compare it with other applicants. On that basis Sevco would easily gain admission ahead of Cove, Gala or any other applicant club.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
There is also a fixed entry point into the SFL, and that's the bottom division so no rules need to be broken.
SFL 3 is the only place they should be getting considered for and if they apply there I think there is little doubt they'll get it if they actually have a team tae put on the park. The behaviour of those running the game trying tae get them in anywhere else is a disgrace, they may be a new club with a new name but tae those running the game that is all the difference there is and it wouldnae be happening for any other club bar their ugly sister, had they gone down the pan, that's what's wrong here. Like you'd I'd like them tae disappear but I'm no daft enough tae think that will happen but they're a new club as per the rules that exist and they start at the bottom , end of IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
This is one of the reasons I think that SFL3 is even beyond them at the moment. There is so much doubt just now over players, stadium ownership, available funding, financial backers, liquidation, court cases, etc. that even if Sevco were permitted into the league I have my doubts that they could survive a full season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Desperate Dan
Of course, all of these points would be overlooked because "it's Rangers" but if their application was on merit there is no way they'd get entry.
Remember that Gretna got priority over the long serving Airdrionians when they reapplied. At the time Airdrie had similar issues over stadium ownership, players and funding and they never received any special treatment.
Allowing Newco straight back into the SFL without the need for registration could effectively kill the game off for every other club, barr the OF.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOVRIL
I already know a huge number of people who have stated that they won't be back now to watch their teams, regardless of the outcome now.
Rangers won't save the game, they will save it for 2 clubs, while the rest are left to rot because their fanbases have simply had enough of this s***e.
Football is nothing without its fans, no matter how much money is pumped into it.
The game is effectively dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgl07
The man from Cowdenbeath - he say "Yes". :tsk tsk:
i believe that official bigot findlay has been in talks over the weekend with bomber 'ned' brown, wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the hunbrox boardroom is once again filled with the smell of pipe tobacco smoke :agree:
http://www.rangerspedia.org/images/e...Findlay_QC.JPG