In contrast have a read of the BBC's political editor Laura Kuenssberg dismissive comments on Sturgeon's performance. Unbelievable.Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
Printable View
In contrast have a read of the BBC's political editor Laura Kuenssberg dismissive comments on Sturgeon's performance. Unbelievable.Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
She a Tory Jock, one hundred per cent.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Harp Awakes
What did she say? Assume if she criticised Sturgeon she annihilated Johnson who was so far out of his depth it was embarrassing.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Harp Awakes
Think family background is Labour exacutive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
The only reference she made to Nicola Sturgeon in her summing up article was:Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBHibees
'Nicola Sturgeon also faced repeated questions on whether independence for Scotland was viable'
That's poor.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Harp Awakes
Really? I'm surprised to hear that. She always comes across as very establishment. I know she attended private school (that doesn't necessarily make her a Conservative) and isn't she married to a City trader? Again that doesn't make her a Tory, but the tone of her reporting has always made me think she is centre-right. I might be wrong of course, but that's the feeling I've always had.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBHibees
I thought Corbyn did ok to be fair ... not brilliant but he held his own without getting a real kicking.
Sturgeon was simply her normal assured self, she rarely sounds evasive and when she did avoid a question she admitted to the audience she just didn't want to answer it at that point for reasons I at least could understand. I thought she was missing the guy who asked about 'once in a generation' opening a door for her to give that crap a real kicking, but perhaps she saw a trap developing and that was why she didn't engage with him. Overall it was a very good performance.
Swinson ... Oh dear, pounded into the dirt and trampled on, simply a car crash.
Johnson ... Faffle, barf, waffle BREXIT ... refuse to take responsibility for actually being a Tory as if he only came into politics the day he became prime minister ... as somebody else said though it probably wont damage him coz no matter what he does or how much ***** he spouts it seems he gets away with it.
Winner? .... Nicola Sturgeon without a doubt.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...QB8xQj_UEJ1GFc
more about that gadgy from earlier that was on another QT...
The Question Time audience member who claimed he wasn't "in the top 50 per cent of British earners" while earning £80,000 can be revealed as an IT consultant and champion professional motorcycle racer.
Rob "Bullet" Barber, 36, of Bury, in Lancashire, runs race team PBR Racing alongside his dad Phil
Attachment 22721 dunno if this is true, but if it is....
the dirty tricks get dirtier each election time, i've lost count of tories/labour candidates dropped from selection due to being unsavoury ****s, i just wish/hope the SNP starts playing dirty for a change for indy2, the unionists will be even dirtier the next time, it's now insulting when johnson/corbyn tell scots how much mega £££'s they want to spend in scotland...shame it's only at election times eh, the £££'s come from OUR resources anyway, they can gtf, they've robbed this country for just too long
He earns above 80K per year yet claims he isn't in the top fifty per cent in income :faf:Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
It worked well with none of them getting an easy ride. Sturgeon was head and shoulders above the others. When I watched Corbyn open things I hadn’t thought he had done that well but compared to the remaining two he had a good night. Swinson’s dreams of doing a Clegg must surely be over. Johnson swung between mediocre and poor. It’s depressing that he still looks like remaining as PM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
I agree, I thought Swinson came across as quite angry tonight, previous lib leaders would have waltzed that questioning. I dont dislike her but she was weak tonight. A shame she was still having to defend Cleggs coalition but that is now a liberal legacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
I'd give her the A+ as I'm pretty sure she saw that question as a trap and deliberately avoided it, as it would have brought Alex Salmond's name to the fore.
Other than that, sound marking :-)
It was the top 5%. I thought he was a liability, as only people on over 80k a year would empathise, and if Corbyn is right, that's only 5% of the population.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
His wife was even worse. The Labour guy said not all solicitors earn over 80k, he was on 40k when he was a solicitor.
All she could say was "rubbish."
Funny thing is she had to defend it more than Johnson.Quote:
Originally Posted by wpj
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by wpj
yes, she came across as very defensive.
she did very clearly state that the Lib Dems would not enter a coalition with the Torys. That remains to be seen
I think the Lib Dem experience makes any coalition with the Tories for any party unlikely. I doubt the SNP would enter a coalition with Labour either. They would not want Corbyn crashing the economy on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by McD
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
:agree: I’m not sure there will be a coalition, certainly between any 2 parties, and I don’t see how a larger coalition could work on an ongoing basis.
Is that supposed to cut people to the quick?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibbyradge
All it demonstrates is that this woman doesn't have a clue what socialism is if she regards the current labour party as 'extremist'.
It's just another attempt by an old centrist to paint their own beliefs as being left wing when they really aren't. 'Oh the horror of nationalisation/let's leave it to the private sector/wheres the money coming from/lifelong labour supporter/but but antisemitism'.
This is nothing new, this time it's just wrapped up in an unfunny video.
Is it true that the @LibDems are considering legal action against the #BBC for allowing her to take part in last night's #BBCQTDebate ?
#CarCrash
#GeneralElection19
I thought Sturgeon did get an easy ride compared to the other three who, let's face it, were absolutely crucified at times.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
Not her fault though and was more to do with the audience and the context of the show. It was always going to be a fairly narrow line of questioning.
However, I'm sure she would have dealt with it very well if she had been grilled a bit more as she is the real deal as far as leaders go.
Lol I also hear that certain Tories are taking action because of the skewed nature of last night's audience. 😂Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Even by the standards set by The Sun that's woeful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibbyradge
"He wants to get his allotment hands on my broadband"Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
You'd think he wanted to nationalise it and then shut the internet down.
It's good to read up on how South Korea government managed their broadband development, they now have the fastest internet in the world and the speeds are embarassingly fast compared to what is on offer in the UK (and pretty much everywhere else).
Edit: and WTF are allotment hands?
She’s 100% a tory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
The tone and approach of her reporting is always pro tory anti anyone else (generally Labour).
She put out an article during the week about the tory in aberdeen who had been caught with holocaust denial history, and also included a bit about a labour chairperson who stepped down in the headline.
Not a single word on the tory mp in the article, provided no clarity as to why he had been removed.
The guy questioning Sturgeon on the once in a lifetime quote is 100% pro independence, he goes under the name of King of Jockistan on Twitter, he was saying he hoped she would see why he kept pushing so that she could knock it on the head once and for all and acknowledged the fact Nicola never sussed it out and moved on quickly.
I’ve thought a great deal about this guy in the last two days, and I really hope he’s not on social media.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
If he is he will be getting bullied to an inch of his life.
The labour man he was speaking to missed a real opportunity to educate him, he should have been drilling it into him that he IS in the top 5% of earners.
The guy was so uninformed it’s untrue, but that is what the media tell people.
He should have done his research before going onto tele, but the tory media tell you that corbyn is going after you hard earned and that is a bad thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-C
I looked through the comments and came across the video of Salmond saying "once in a generation", it's never mentioned that he 1) clearly emphasised it's his view, and 2) said that another referendum could occur if there was a mandate given in a subsequent GE.
https://twitter.com/AngusMacNeilSNP/...59279883735040
Boris, Gove and co need to be firmly telt on this when they start with the "once in a generation" line as if it was set in law.
There was a lady from Bristol on BBC Breakfast this morning. A single parent who was using a foodbabk to feed her family. She stated her voting intentions were either Green or The Conservatives because she likes Boris Johnson and he'll 'really fight for what he believes in'.
On the one hand it's easy to mock or just shake your head in disbelief. However you really have to wonder how we have got to such a stage. There's a lowest common denominator politics at play. The leader of the opposition has been demonised as a dangerous Marxist (he's not), people are conditioned to believe immigration is the root cause of all their problems (it's not) and we have somehow reached a point were a dishonest, cheating, immoral buffoon is seen as a champion of the marginalised (he is definitely not).
I was, and am, a soft yes voter when it comes to independence. Under a progressive UK government I could easily be tempted to vote no. I've generally always adhered to the internationalist element of soft left politics. However, and I think someone else said it earlier on the thread, if a majority of English voters continue to go down a very divergent route from what we are seeing in Scotland then there comes a point at which you just have to cut them loose and accept they have made their choice. This election and the choice Labour make at their next leadership contest in the aftermath is going to be a critical point in the future of the union.
Fair point and she'll have to answer that question at some stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Curried
What a lot of bull****.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibbyradge
I think Sturgeon got it relatively easy because she's relatively bomb proof. She's heading a government that's been in power for more than a decade that would appear to be doing a lot right, they are still riding high in the polls because they're doing a decent job. Out of all the governments the UK has seen in recent times, the Scottish government is the one that at least appears to be working for those that voted them in. Their record isn't perfect but compared to the others they're a shining light in an otherwise dark night sky, that makes them hard to attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
That was my feeling as well. It felt like he was teeing up a ball for her to drive down the range.Quote:
Originally Posted by J-C
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
A very good summary.
She also knows her brief. She can quote stats on waiting times, knife crime, broadband access, obesity rates, drug abuse etc of the top of her head in a way that no other politician in the uk can. And her govt are very competent. It’s easy to say they could be doing better but there are no other examples in the uk of a govt doing better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I also liked the fact she was very quick to ask the ex drug addict to give her details as she wanted to get her involved in the anti drug campaign, positive leading by a very competent leader.
The guy looked like he was going to have a stroke. Anyone who earns 80k but is not willing to put £10 a month more back into the system to help make a better society for all is pretty much begging to get abused. I'm finding it hard to find any sympathy for him. I represent a 300+ group of individuals who earn 120k basic pay and NONE of them would embarrass themselves over a tenner like that clown.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Trager
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by J-C
He deleted his Facebook accountQuote:
Originally Posted by Alex Trager
Cool. No damage done then. 👍Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
Obviously, but who's watching that stuff?Quote:
Originally Posted by matty_f
It's brutal
How is it possible to be wavering between Green and Conservative? They as far apart as any of the parties standing. It's a bit like a voter in Northern Ireland saying they are wavering between the DUP and Sinn Fein - "I like both Gerry Adams and Gregory Campbell and agree with them" :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
I loathe Question Time so I was never going to spend my Friday night watching the leaders' special, but I just had a flick through the BBC 'highlights'.
First observation, it wasn't really Question Time was it? If so they'd have had the leaders on a panel at the same time and able to debate/slag off each other.
As for the performances it seems to me Sturgeon was always going to get the easiest ride due to the fact the vast majority of the audience won't have an SNP candidate on their ballot paper which meant the questions were a bit token and one-dimensional. She still looked to be her usual professional self though.
Corbyn? Just the usual two takeaways from him: He can't shake the anti-Semitism issue and he took his Brexit stance to new levels of fence-sitting vagueness. He's no leader.
Swinson's inexperience on the big stage caught up with her badly. They might have been better with Chuka Umunna as leader.
Johnson gave his usual Marmite display. Didn't get himself into any real trouble which is pretty much all he needs to do during this campaign.
:dunno:Quote:
Originally Posted by G B Young
I thought he was pretty clear on the subject.
It will be much more interesting to see the new shape of politics with Corbyn out of the way after the election, Swinson potentially following him if the L/Ds perform really badly (though she likely gets another crack at it if she wants to stay), Sturgeon gone by March or soon after and Johnson having to deal with the messy reality of his own small majority government taking full responsibility for Brexit.
Why would Sturgeon be gone by March? She is , by considerable distance , the best leader of any political party in the UK at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by One Day Soon
:agree: and the stance is sensible/logical.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
He could have saved himself a lot of bother if he had went that way earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by matty_f
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Did anyone notice Boris trying the same thing? 🤣Quote:
Originally Posted by J-C
Well well. The guy who was giving Corbyn a hard time over anti semitism and was so hurt by his 'treatment' of a Jewish MP is a Tory activist who has been on QT four times before.
https://www.conservativehome.com/pla...activists.html
It wasn’t set in law but it was clear in the white paper opening statement:Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudSquall
If we vote No, Scotland stands still. A once in a generation opportunity to follow a different path, and choose a new and better direction for our nation, is lost. Decisions about Scotland would remain in the hands of others.
Then in Salmond preface he again refers to a generational opportunity:
Our generation has the opportunity to stop imagining and wondering and start building the better Scotland we all know is possible.
So maybe we can once and for all agree that it wasn’t just a throw away line and the vote was presented quite clearly as a once in a generation opportunity, it’s there in black and white in the key publication the SNP produced to support their position in the vote.
Watch that space....Quote:
Originally Posted by Since90+2
:fishin: :faf:Quote:
Originally Posted by One Day Soon
Aye right then:yawn:Quote:
Originally Posted by One Day Soon
So what? Doesn't mean his point wasn't valid or that he was somehow barred from asking a question critical of Corbyn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
The dad giving Johnson a hard time in the hospital a few weeks back is a Labour activist. He was still entitled to his point of view.
I think what he's implying is that the Salmond court case has the potential to bring her down. I'd hope that doesn't prove to be the case as while I don't support independence I've always thought she was an honest and principled politician - although should Salmond be found guilty it would seem hard to believe that senior SNP figures had zero awareness of what was going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Since90+2
Probably looking for somewhere to score.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
Alongside the anti-Semitism issue Corbyn's biggest weakness has been his indecisiveness over Brexit. Pressed for a more decisive view for months he's now become (as one of the BBC pundits put it) more decisive about sitting on the fence. To give the impression he is indifferent to an issue which has dominated politics for well over three years is extraordinary - especially bearing in mind the way the issue dominates the electoral agenda in leave supporting areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Or maybe we don't, given neither statement actually says "we're having one referendum for a generation which is defined as x number of years" and can be interpreted in a number of ways, usually dependent on the reader's position towards another referendum.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeSloan
In any case, even if it had been categorically stated that it was "once in a generation" that becomes completely void if a party (the SNP) are given a mandate by the electorate to hold another one.
Well if you take that view then nothing he said would have satisfied you. I'm pretty sure whatever you think about his reply yesterday, you couldn't really accuse him of vagueness.Quote:
Originally Posted by G B Young
This is terrible news. I had no idea she was giving up politics. Oh dear, what will the SNP do?Quote:
Originally Posted by One Day Soon
There's a lot more sincerity in the complaints of a guy who was actually in a hospital for a legitimate reason than an audience plant who feigned outrage and twisted the realities of a specific incident.Quote:
Originally Posted by G B Young
She can chum Jeremy Corbyn to the dole office as he'll be away just before that. Apparently.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
After all these unexpected results in elections and referendums recently, you'd think people would learn.
Better start familiarising yourself with Derek Mackay...Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
Dole office? Corbyn has a pension the size of Alaska to look forward to.
After Corbyn underperforming so spectacularly electorally and in polling you'd think people would learn.
There is no ‘if’ about it the white paper clearly states that it’s a once in a generation opportunity...it’s right there in the opening paragraphs. It clearly states that if that opportunity is not taken then it’s lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudSquall
So let’s be clear this ‘once in a generation’ stuff was no slip of the tongue from Salmond in one interview nor was it just his personal view. That much is irrefutable.
He's not 'indifferent' as some put it, he recognises that there are two large groups of people with differing views who need to be brought together.Quote:
Originally Posted by G B Young
Far from being a weakness, it's a mature stance to take and shows the kind of leadership that is necessary in such a situation. Also, what would you think would happen to a leader who campaigns for one outcome and loses?
Far from being a revelation, last night's statement of neutrality was a dumbing down for those who operate at a certain base and need things spelled out for them.
Far from being something to latch onto and weaponise, it should be seen for what it is...a common sense approach to the situation that brings people together, not divides them further.
I don’t like the modern phenomenon of everyone falling over themselves to discredit every critical or dissenting voice who makes life a bit uncomfortable (Gove’s display the other day was a disgrace).Quote:
Originally Posted by G B Young
Corbyn has a few questions to answer on the subject, they’re as well coming his way that way as any other.
It depends how these questions are framed though. If the guy had opened by stating his political allegiance then I dont think anyone would have minded. Trying to come across as 'concerned dad from Sheffield' 😂.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
I do concede that these questions do have to come from somewhere and it does make good TV. It also gives the leaders a chance to turn it into a positive by giving a good response.
Couldn't disagree more with this post as to Corbyn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
He's being entirely duplicitous. A leader is supposed to be entirely that. He's not chair of some committee or other, he's put himself forward to become Prime Minister and to sit on the fence and pretend that this stance shows maturity is quite frankly pathetic.
How would Sturgeon look if she pretended to be neutral on independence and state that she'd take no part in either promoting it or dismissing it. The truth is that she wouldn't be so cowardly.
Corbyn is a weak man and an even weaker leader.
You credit Corbyn with too much intelligence. His latest attempt to firm up Labour's weak position on Brexit is the latest fudge thought up by his advisors ie let's try to present Jeremy as the only adult in the room.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
A leader who campaigns for one outcome and loses will of course find himself out of a job, but surely better to go down in flames standing by your principles than campaign for neither outcome and still lose.
Unless Question Time had introducd a stipulation that every audience member states their political allegiance prior to asking their question then I fail to see the big deal here. My point about the dad in the hospital was more of a general one ie dig beneath the surface and this sort of thing goes on all the time. For example Labour were last week forced to pull an election broadcast narrated by an actress purporting to be a nurse. In an ideal world transparency would be the watchword for all political parties but with an election at stake I'm afraid all parties will bend the truth to their own ends.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
So what? That was then. This is now.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeSloan
No relevance. 2014 is over.
And yes, there can be referendums every year if the Scottish electorate desire.
J
Yeah! Let's have division and uncertainty every year. Great stuff!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if he made his daughter ill that day just to get access to Johnson and the media coverage.Quote:
Originally Posted by G B Young
I can see the other side of the argument and understand why people consider his stance a 'weak' one. However, your comparison couldn't be more ridiculous given Sturgeon is the leader of a political party who's raison d'etre is independence 😆Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankhfc
🤣Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
He could well have had a tip off about when The Ape was visiting though, and made sure he was in to visit.Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeSloan
I said a few weeks ago that, in politics, a generation refers to the length of a government. 5 years is a political generation as every new government brings change. Are you suggesting that we, the electorate, shouldn't get to change a government every 5 years if we think things are not working?
Salmond wasn't referring to a political generation though (and it's news to me that there is such a thing). He described the referendum as 'a rare and precious moment in the history of Scotland - a once in a generation opportunity to chart a better way'. He even suggested in was a 'once in a lifetime' opportunity in an interview with Andrew Marr.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
But none of that was official. Nothing Salmond said in interviews was set in stone yet some people would have us believe otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by G B Young
I was quoting from the Scottish Government's white paper 'Scotland's Future' which I'd suggest was pretty authoritative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
Sturgeon herself has called out closet Brexiteer Corbyn today over his weasel words about being an 'honest broker':Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/elec...ost_type=share
How do you know what he was referring to? A political generation by definition is the term of any government, the Thatcher political generation was longer than the Gordon brown one.Quote:
Originally Posted by G B Young
'Weasel words'. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by G B Young
I'm not sure your hatred of Mr Corbyn is entirely healthy.
Classic straw man at the end there. [emoji23]Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
I have never, ever, heard anyone refer to a 5-year government as a generation and my original degree was in politics. One government is not a political generation, it takes much more than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
I think you are making things up, I’m afraid.
Why all the arguing about what a generation is, when we all know what a change of circumstances (such as leaving the EU) is?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
I don’t see any arguing. Moulin Yarns keeps repeating his point and I merely posted that I think it’s entirely false.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataplana
I meant, in general, honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8087edfe84.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tories up three points, after last night's performance by Johnson? If that poll is accurate, almost half the country thinks the Tories are the best option :shocked:. I don't know how this is possible; the world is insane.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Is that not a week old that poll?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Perhaps because more people will have seen/heard the Tory press (etc)'s comments on the performance than will have seen the performance itself? Sturgeon was easily the best performer, but you wouldn't get any sense of that from Kuenssberg's reporting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
Yes, not impossible that he did plan to berate Johnson on camera. Pure bonus that while he was doing it Johnson claimed, on camera, that there were no cameras there. :faf:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataplana
How the **** is this happening?!?!?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I think this is likely to be an outlier but the reality is there is not much appetite for what Corbyn is selling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I didn’t see the debate, busy with family stuff and haven’t watched it on catch-up. I read a bit about it on here, though that’s not exactly balanced :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
I did read the analysis of it by Andrew Sparrow and his colleagues who do the daily Politics Live on the Guardian website.
I don’t think any of them are natural Tories :greengrin but I have read their summary and analysis of PMQs and the like for a long time now and it has always felt relatively even-handed.
Their summary was that Johnson wasn’t fantastic but said the right things to the people he needs to speak to. Playing it safe with voters who should be his but might wobble.
Corbyn was weak and got better, but not game-chagingly better. He put to bed the issue about him and Brexit by declaring neutrality but that opens up internal dissent, given a greater number of the party membership favour Remain than voted for Corbyn.
Swinson seemed to have a nightmare. The Guardian said that she did have the most hostile questioning and little in the way of audience support, compared to the others, which probably doesn’t reflect the polls. What I found interesting was that there was a lot of studio flak about the commitment to revoke Brexit directly, rather than go to a second referendum. I have not seen any polling about simply revoking Brexit - is it really that unpopular? I know there are arguments about democracy and the will of the people etc, I’m more curious about how many people support a simple revocation.
Sturgeon was praised for being a bit above it all and a bit more measured. But it was also acknowledged that the context of the debate made life a lot easier for her.
I might try and watch it on catch-up if I can find the time.
Polls schmoles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby