General election 2019

[Pete]

Well well. The guy who was giving Corbyn a hard time over anti semitism and was so hurt by his 'treatment' of a Jewish MP is a Tory activist who has been on QT four times before.

https://www.conservativehome.com/pla...activists.html

[RyeSloan]

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I looked through the comments and came across the video of Salmond saying "once in a generation", it's never mentioned that he 1) clearly emphasised it's his view, and 2) said that another referendum could occur if there was a mandate given in a subsequent GE.

https://twitter.com/AngusMacNeilSNP/...59279883735040


Boris, Gove and co need to be firmly telt on this when they start with the "once in a generation" line as if it was set in law.

It wasn’t set in law but it was clear in the white paper opening statement:


If we vote No, Scotland stands still. A once in a generation opportunity to follow a different path, and choose a new and better direction for our nation, is lost. Decisions about Scotland would remain in the hands of others.


Then in Salmond preface he again refers to a generational opportunity:

Our generation has the opportunity to stop imagining and wondering and start building the better Scotland we all know is possible.


So maybe we can once and for all agree that it wasn’t just a throw away line and the vote was presented quite clearly as a once in a generation opportunity, it’s there in black and white in the key publication the SNP produced to support their position in the vote.

[One Day Soon]

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Why would Sturgeon be gone by March? She is , by considerable distance , the best leader of any political party in the UK at the moment.

Watch that space....

[Moulin Yarns]

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Watch that space....

[The Harp Awakes]

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Watch that space....

Aye right then

[G B Young]

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Well well. The guy who was giving Corbyn a hard time over anti semitism and was so hurt by his 'treatment' of a Jewish MP is a Tory activist who has been on QT four times before.

https://www.conservativehome.com/pla...activists.html

So what? Doesn't mean his point wasn't valid or that he was somehow barred from asking a question critical of Corbyn.

The dad giving Johnson a hard time in the hospital a few weeks back is a Labour activist. He was still entitled to his point of view.

[G B Young]

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Why would Sturgeon be gone by March? She is , by considerable distance , the best leader of any political party in the UK at the moment.

I think what he's implying is that the Salmond court case has the potential to bring her down. I'd hope that doesn't prove to be the case as while I don't support independence I've always thought she was an honest and principled politician - although should Salmond be found guilty it would seem hard to believe that senior SNP figures had zero awareness of what was going on.

[Cataplana]

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Did anyone notice Boris trying the same thing? 🤣

Probably looking for somewhere to score.

[G B Young]

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I thought he was pretty clear on the subject.

Alongside the anti-Semitism issue Corbyn's biggest weakness has been his indecisiveness over Brexit. Pressed for a more decisive view for months he's now become (as one of the BBC pundits put it) more decisive about sitting on the fence. To give the impression he is indifferent to an issue which has dominated politics for well over three years is extraordinary - especially bearing in mind the way the issue dominates the electoral agenda in leave supporting areas.

[CloudSquall]

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It wasn’t set in law but it was clear in the white paper opening statement:


If we vote No, Scotland stands still. A once in a generation opportunity to follow a different path, and choose a new and better direction for our nation, is lost. Decisions about Scotland would remain in the hands of others.


Then in Salmond preface he again refers to a generational opportunity:

Our generation has the opportunity to stop imagining and wondering and start building the better Scotland we all know is possible.


So maybe we can once and for all agree that it wasn’t just a throw away line and the vote was presented quite clearly as a once in a generation opportunity, it’s there in black and white in the key publication the SNP produced to support their position in the vote.

Or maybe we don't, given neither statement actually says "we're having one referendum for a generation which is defined as x number of years" and can be interpreted in a number of ways, usually dependent on the reader's position towards another referendum.

In any case, even if it had been categorically stated that it was "once in a generation" that becomes completely void if a party (the SNP) are given a mandate by the electorate to hold another one.

[grunt]

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Alongside the anti-Semitism issue Corbyn's biggest weakness has been his indecisiveness over Brexit. Pressed for a more decisive view for months he's now become (as one of the BBC pundits put it) more decisive about sitting on the fence. To give the impression he is indifferent to an issue which has dominated politics for well over three years is extraordinary - especially bearing in mind the way the issue dominates the electoral agenda in leave supporting areas.

Well if you take that view then nothing he said would have satisfied you. I'm pretty sure whatever you think about his reply yesterday, you couldn't really accuse him of vagueness.

[grunt]

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It will be much more interesting to see the new shape of politics with Corbyn out of the way after the election, Swinson potentially following him if the L/Ds perform really badly (though she likely gets another crack at it if she wants to stay), Sturgeon gone by March or soon after and Johnson having to deal with the messy reality of his own small majority government taking full responsibility for Brexit.

This is terrible news. I had no idea she was giving up politics. Oh dear, what will the SNP do?

[Pete]

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So what? Doesn't mean his point wasn't valid or that he was somehow barred from asking a question critical of Corbyn.

The dad giving Johnson a hard time in the hospital a few weeks back is a Labour activist. He was still entitled to his point of view.

There's a lot more sincerity in the complaints of a guy who was actually in a hospital for a legitimate reason than an audience plant who feigned outrage and twisted the realities of a specific incident.

[Pete]

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This is terrible news. I had no idea she was giving up politics. Oh dear, what will the SNP do?

She can chum Jeremy Corbyn to the dole office as he'll be away just before that. Apparently.

After all these unexpected results in elections and referendums recently, you'd think people would learn.

[One Day Soon]

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This is terrible news. I had no idea she was giving up politics. Oh dear, what will the SNP do?

Better start familiarising yourself with Derek Mackay...

[One Day Soon]

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She can chum Jeremy Corbyn to the dole office as he'll be away just before that. Apparently.

After all these unexpected results in elections and referendums recently, you'd think people would learn.

Dole office? Corbyn has a pension the size of Alaska to look forward to.

After Corbyn underperforming so spectacularly electorally and in polling you'd think people would learn.

[RyeSloan]

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Or maybe we don't, given neither statement actually says "we're having one referendum for a generation which is defined as x number of years" and can be interpreted in a number of ways, usually dependent on the reader's position towards another referendum.

In any case, even if it had been categorically stated that it was "once in a generation" that becomes completely void if a party (the SNP) are given a mandate by the electorate to hold another one.

There is no ‘if’ about it the white paper clearly states that it’s a once in a generation opportunity...it’s right there in the opening paragraphs. It clearly states that if that opportunity is not taken then it’s lost.

So let’s be clear this ‘once in a generation’ stuff was no slip of the tongue from Salmond in one interview nor was it just his personal view. That much is irrefutable.

[Pete]

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Alongside the anti-Semitism issue Corbyn's biggest weakness has been his indecisiveness over Brexit. Pressed for a more decisive view for months he's now become (as one of the BBC pundits put it) more decisive about sitting on the fence. To give the impression he is indifferent to an issue which has dominated politics for well over three years is extraordinary - especially bearing in mind the way the issue dominates the electoral agenda in leave supporting areas.

He's not 'indifferent' as some put it, he recognises that there are two large groups of people with differing views who need to be brought together.

Far from being a weakness, it's a mature stance to take and shows the kind of leadership that is necessary in such a situation. Also, what would you think would happen to a leader who campaigns for one outcome and loses?

Far from being a revelation, last night's statement of neutrality was a dumbing down for those who operate at a certain base and need things spelled out for them.

Far from being something to latch onto and weaponise, it should be seen for what it is...a common sense approach to the situation that brings people together, not divides them further.

[Smartie]

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So what? Doesn't mean his point wasn't valid or that he was somehow barred from asking a question critical of Corbyn.

The dad giving Johnson a hard time in the hospital a few weeks back is a Labour activist. He was still entitled to his point of view.

I don’t like the modern phenomenon of everyone falling over themselves to discredit every critical or dissenting voice who makes life a bit uncomfortable (Gove’s display the other day was a disgrace).

Corbyn has a few questions to answer on the subject, they’re as well coming his way that way as any other.

[Pete]

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I don’t like the modern phenomenon of everyone falling over themselves to discredit every critical or dissenting voice who makes life a bit uncomfortable (Gove’s display the other day was a disgrace).

Corbyn has a few questions to answer on the subject, they’re as well coming his way that way as any other.

It depends how these questions are framed though. If the guy had opened by stating his political allegiance then I dont think anyone would have minded. Trying to come across as 'concerned dad from Sheffield' 😂.

I do concede that these questions do have to come from somewhere and it does make good TV. It also gives the leaders a chance to turn it into a positive by giving a good response.

[Frankhfc]

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He's not 'indifferent' as some put it, he recognises that there are two large groups of people with differing views who need to be brought together.

Far from being a weakness, it's a mature stance to take and shows the kind of leadership that is necessary in such a situation. Also, what would you think would happen to a leader who campaigns for one outcome and loses?

Far from being a revelation, last night's statement of neutrality was a dumbing down for those who operate at a certain base and need things spelled out for them.

Far from being something to latch onto and weaponise, it should be seen for what it is...a common sense approach to the situation that brings people together, not divides them further.

Couldn't disagree more with this post as to Corbyn.

He's being entirely duplicitous. A leader is supposed to be entirely that. He's not chair of some committee or other, he's put himself forward to become Prime Minister and to sit on the fence and pretend that this stance shows maturity is quite frankly pathetic.

How would Sturgeon look if she pretended to be neutral on independence and state that she'd take no part in either promoting it or dismissing it. The truth is that she wouldn't be so cowardly.

Corbyn is a weak man and an even weaker leader.

[G B Young]

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He's not 'indifferent' as some put it, he recognises that there are two large groups of people with differing views who need to be brought together.

Far from being a weakness, it's a mature stance to take and shows the kind of leadership that is necessary in such a situation. Also, what would you think would happen to a leader who campaigns for one outcome and loses?

Far from being a revelation, last night's statement of neutrality was a dumbing down for those who operate at a certain base and need things spelled out for them.

Far from being something to latch onto and weaponise, it should be seen for what it is...a common sense approach to the situation that brings people together, not divides them further.

You credit Corbyn with too much intelligence. His latest attempt to firm up Labour's weak position on Brexit is the latest fudge thought up by his advisors ie let's try to present Jeremy as the only adult in the room.

A leader who campaigns for one outcome and loses will of course find himself out of a job, but surely better to go down in flames standing by your principles than campaign for neither outcome and still lose.

[G B Young]

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It depends how these questions are framed though. If the guy had opened by stating his political allegiance then I dont think anyone would have minded. Trying to come across as 'concerned dad from Sheffield' 😂.

I do concede that these questions do have to come from somewhere and it does make good TV. It also gives the leaders a chance to turn it into a positive by giving a good response.

Unless Question Time had introducd a stipulation that every audience member states their political allegiance prior to asking their question then I fail to see the big deal here. My point about the dad in the hospital was more of a general one ie dig beneath the surface and this sort of thing goes on all the time. For example Labour were last week forced to pull an election broadcast narrated by an actress purporting to be a nurse. In an ideal world transparency would be the watchword for all political parties but with an election at stake I'm afraid all parties will bend the truth to their own ends.

[Bristolhibby]

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It wasn’t set in law but it was clear in the white paper opening statement:


If we vote No, Scotland stands still. A once in a generation opportunity to follow a different path, and choose a new and better direction for our nation, is lost. Decisions about Scotland would remain in the hands of others.


Then in Salmond preface he again refers to a generational opportunity:

Our generation has the opportunity to stop imagining and wondering and start building the better Scotland we all know is possible.


So maybe we can once and for all agree that it wasn’t just a throw away line and the vote was presented quite clearly as a once in a generation opportunity, it’s there in black and white in the key publication the SNP produced to support their position in the vote.

So what? That was then. This is now.

No relevance. 2014 is over.

And yes, there can be referendums every year if the Scottish electorate desire.

J

[heretoday]

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So what? That was then. This is now.

No relevance. 2014 is over.

And yes, there can be referendums every year if the Scottish electorate desire.

J

Yeah! Let's have division and uncertainty every year. Great stuff!

[lapsedhibee]

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My point about the dad in the hospital was more of a general one ie dig beneath the surface and this sort of thing goes on all the time.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if he made his daughter ill that day just to get access to Johnson and the media coverage.

[Pete]

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Couldn't disagree more with this post as to Corbyn.

He's being entirely duplicitous. A leader is supposed to be entirely that. He's not chair of some committee or other, he's put himself forward to become Prime Minister and to sit on the fence and pretend that this stance shows maturity is quite frankly pathetic.

How would Sturgeon look if she pretended to be neutral on independence and state that she'd take no part in either promoting it or dismissing it. The truth is that she wouldn't be so cowardly.

Corbyn is a weak man and an even weaker leader.

I can see the other side of the argument and understand why people consider his stance a 'weak' one. However, your comparison couldn't be more ridiculous given Sturgeon is the leader of a political party who's raison d'etre is independence 😆

[Pete]

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Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if he made his daughter ill that day just to get access to Johnson and the media coverage.

🤣

[Cataplana]

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Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if he made his daughter ill that day just to get access to Johnson and the media coverage.

He could well have had a tip off about when The Ape was visiting though, and made sure he was in to visit.

[Moulin Yarns]

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It wasn’t set in law but it was clear in the white paper opening statement:


If we vote No, Scotland stands still. A once in a generation opportunity to follow a different path, and choose a new and better direction for our nation, is lost. Decisions about Scotland would remain in the hands of others.


Then in Salmond preface he again refers to a generational opportunity:

Our generation has the opportunity to stop imagining and wondering and start building the better Scotland we all know is possible.


So maybe we can once and for all agree that it wasn’t just a throw away line and the vote was presented quite clearly as a once in a generation opportunity, it’s there in black and white in the key publication the SNP produced to support their position in the vote.

I said a few weeks ago that, in politics, a generation refers to the length of a government. 5 years is a political generation as every new government brings change. Are you suggesting that we, the electorate, shouldn't get to change a government every 5 years if we think things are not working?