If they have received such legal advice then surely they would have no problem publishing it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
I really think we are heading for another cover up here.
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If they have received such legal advice then surely they would have no problem publishing it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
I really think we are heading for another cover up here.
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I used to be of that opinion but I've changed my mind and now think that titles should be stripped.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenNWhiteArmy
We are customers, the lifeblood of the game. We need to know for sure that we are watching a fair fight. Do we have confidence that any competition involving Rangers, Sevco, Dave King, Charles Green, Neil Doncaster, Stewart Regan, Campbell Ogilvie and all of the people that were part of the 5 way agreement can put on a fair competition?
I can take Hibs losing, I've sen enough of it over the years. I resent shelling out £400 or so per year to watch a rigged competition. Next year I don't think I'd do it if one establishment club are consistently allowed to piss all over what rules might exist.
Football needs strict rules and strict enforcement so that the Dave Kings, David Murrays and Vladimir Romanovs of this world cannot just do as they choose. Rules must be rules, punishments must be enforced. If you lose you lose and you lick your wounds, but if you win then you know you've done it fairly and can justifiably celebrate.
My concern re the stripping of titles is that it is hard to know where to stop, and you need to consider the spirit of competition. My main 3 concerns about title stripping are
1/ Where do you stop? Half of the league were financial doping in some way. Jambos with their 5-1 this and that, getting on their high horse demanding titles be stripped, just because of a player registration technicality. IMO Hearts' financial transgressions were every bit as bad as Rangers'. Their tainted trophies, their scandalous unfair advantage in more than a decade of derbies yet because of side letters they think they have some moral high ground? How did they ever get away with having players registered with Kaunas and loaned to Hearts? In terms of the spirit of competition, half of Scottish football was bent. Even if titles aren't stripped, the whole episode was shameful for Scottish football and any decent fan (including those of Rangers) will not view any of the competitions won during that period as being valid, even if they remain on the records.
2/ I actually agree that at some point we do need to move on, and soon. It can happen as soon as we have confidence in those running our game. They could help by stripping titles, by sacking some of the figures tainted by corruption, by demonstrating that going forward all clubs INCLUDING RANGERS will play by the same rules, be punished by the same punishments etc etc.
3/ As I said above, there may not actually be a real, legal way for it to be done. Rules are rules - if rules don't exist dictating that titles can be stripped for this misdeed, can they really be stripped?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
That's been my view all along of what would happen, and the statements coming out now are leading toward that.
tbh, the fact that there were different rules (and in fact new rules had to be made up on the hoof) for the New Rangers as compared to Gretna 2008 and Airdrie United, pretty much makes that the rational conclusion already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keekaboo
Did the Spartans ejection not happen during the tournament though?Quote:
Originally Posted by Keekaboo
And can it be done years after - ie does that rule exist?
I suspect those are the questions being posed - as much as "is it the right thing to do".
I'll take your word for that, I really have no idea. What did the SPL rules say at the time?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
You may be happy to go after the Yams as most Hibs fans would be but the fans of other clubs generally couldn't care less about their cheating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by green day
What does it matter when it was discovered?
If a crime is covered up well by the perpetrator and the police find out years after, do they just shrug their shoulders and say "oh well, we didn't know about it"?
A crime has still been comitted and they can still arrest and prosecute the people that did wrong.
The alternative is to assume that those covering up their crimes or misdemeanours should just be forgiven, for being clever enough to hide it well at the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I think wee Rudi's private deal with Vlad is a stick on if the payments were made by Heart's parent company UBIG but not included on Skacel's contract.
Call first witness , self-sufficient Southern , now of Dundee United.
Budge saying that there's going to be a statement on Wednesday and in her words "that will hopefully be an end to it" doesn't suggest to me that any further action will be taken.
If we go after Rangers, then a bit of whataboutery might bring this into play.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
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There is a difference between criminalnlaw and the rules of a sporting competition, and I doubt (would put my house on it) that they are remotely close.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keekaboo
Just because plod can go after criminals years after doesn't mean Scottish fitba has a rule saying titles can be stripped.
I will be delighted to be proved wrong.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3b1aa5b510.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by green day
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There is one great irony in all of this in that Sevco fans for years have claimed they were robbed of winning the 1st Champions League because Marseille cheated by bribing the opposition. Although this was never proved it was confirmed that Marseille had bribed to win a French league match & they were retroactively stripped of the title, see, it can be done! Incidentally, the league title was offered to PSG but they turned it down. All this stuff about who should benefit if Sevco lose their titles is a red herring. No one needs to benefit but teams who cheat should not be rewarded for their skullduggery.
They cheated for years & it has been proven that they cheated for years.
We are well used to institutional bias in Scottish Football, but I was stupid enough to think
that things were improving. If Sevco walk away from this it reinforces all that's wrong with
our football institutions, and it will reinforce the reality of a system which has completely
different rules for certain clubs.
I love watching Hibs, the cup win was one of the best days of my life, but what is the point if
we collude with a corrupt, self-serving system which is designed to multiply the advantages
of a team like Sevco?
Cycling removed the Tour de France titles Armstrong cheated to win, &
it's so much the better for it. Removing old Rangers titles would say that cheating will be
punished, not rewarded. What are we telling the kids otherwise?
In that case I hope nobody remembers about Gordon Smith taking delivery of the first Porsche sportscar in Scotland (he didn't pay for it)or the difficulty so many of the players had in getting their shoes on after training because of the wads of folding stuff in them.It would be a shame to have those titles taken away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Those are SPFL rules, are they enforceable pre 2012? I don't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Remember when the Huns waved similar rules at us after the cup final and said it would be stripped?
Thats why they will be asking lawyers.
Purge the SFA and SPFL and I could live with that as the outcome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenPJ
You mean close down all the clubs in Scotland.A bit drastic surely?
Rangers gained a financial edge over other clubs but then so has every team who overspent and then entered administration. As for stripping titles what is that going to achieve? Our game needs to move on and try talking it up rather than revisit old issues. We all believe they got an unfair advantage and love reminding them of it.
I was just showing that disqualification even after the fact is always an option in any sports comp rules. Even kids swimming galas have removal of titles in their rules. It would have been in the SPL's rules as well or they would have been shouting from the rooftops that here was nothing they could do.Quote:
Originally Posted by green day
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Not convincing at all from Petrie.[emoji35]
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40...kname=scotland
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https://stv.tv/sport/football/139421...ampaign=buffer
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The whole of Scottish football is turning a blind eye to the cheats. Unreal, and I wonder what skeletons are in the closet that are clearly scaring them sh**less.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Quick body swerve there, Rod. Barry John would have been proud of that one. Mind you, Barry"s windies wurny at stake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
To be fair, he's saying it"s time to stop poking the cat and move on. Up to a point I agree. (Tin hat firmly on).
Pretty clear the decision has been taken and Hibs are at the centre of it. Disgusting.
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I'm a big RP advocate, but sorry that was poor. They were cheats and should be punished. Don't think I would have got sympathy from HMRC if I hadn't paid my Paye.Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
SPFL are simply pretending to review the Rangers case, hiding behind "legal advice" in hope of silencing Celtic, club fans and some journos. Much safer outcome for the individuals on the SPFL Board to leave the titles with the Huns than to strip them ! They'll hope that Wednesday's confirmation will put the issue to bed for good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
So when the legal advice says it's a dead duck do you think members of the various boards should ignore it and go ahead with some form of legal action?
What was the legal advice?Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient hibee
Haven't the faintest idea but perhaps you can tell me.