The Black Knights

[bingo70]

There’s lots of excitement about the Black Knights getting more involved in the footballing side of things, understandably so i think but who exactly are the Black Knights and who makes the decisions for them?

I posted a link to an interview with Tim Bezbatchenko last week (posted again below in case anyone missed it), I was interested to learn that he was their first and only employee at the time. That essentially means that the Black Knights aren’t actually a group of experts but more a collection of employees at various clubs, a sort of cooperative concept I think? With that being the case, if we announce tomorrow that the BK’s are taking over and Gray is getting binned, who actually leads the search for his replacements? Assuming it’s not Tim Bezbatchenko himself that’s doing the work for all clubs in the group, what individual from the black knights heads up the process when they’re not an organisation with multiple employees or experts?

Will they use independent consultants or contractors? Will the data company that’s linked to the Ryan Group be involved? Will Tiago Pinto who went to Bournemouth from Roma as some sporting director have a say? What about Simon Francis? Both Pinto and Francis are employees of Bournemouth, not the Black Knights, so how involved will they be with other clubs within the group?

Is anybody able to explain to me how the group structure works when there’s not many employees of the group and is dependant on individuals at other clubs?

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/soccerwise/id1752138229?i=1000673605346

[Since90+2]

I can't imagine we'd have anyone who's a direct employee of Bournemouth being involved in Hibs. Not that it would be a bad thing given how they are performing, just don't see it.

[bingo70]

I can't imagine we'd have anyone who's a direct employee of Bournemouth being involved in Hibs. Not that it would be a bad thing given how they are performing, just don't see it.

Neither do I, that’s kind of my point.

If we’re not getting help of people from other clubs, who will it be then? That’s all the black knights are, an investment group with shares in various clubs.

When Foley refers to the black knights as ‘we’, who does he mean? I don’t think for a second it was Foley who suggested they sacked Gary O’Neil and replaced him with Iraola (sp?), who would be advising the Black Knights is maybe a shorter way of asking the same question? 😃

[S4uzee]

Are they getting more involved?

[may 21/05/2016]

Are they getting more involved?No

[JohnM1875]

No

Boo! Hope the rumours are true and you're not.

[ionahibby]

Boo! Hope the rumours are true and you're not.

It might not be good news that comes out of this. Careful what we wish for.

[Trinity Hibee]

It might not be good news that comes out of this. Careful what we wish for.

I’d be stunned if anything was worse than what we currently have

[bingo70]

Are they getting more involved?

So the jungle drums are saying. See the thread on Kensell, Gordon, Mackay your times up…..

[oneone73]

For one thing, it's Black Knight, not Black Knights.

[bingo70]

For one thing, it's Black Knight, not Black Knights.

Pleased I started this thread now, I did not realise that.

[JohnM1875]

It might not be good news that comes out of this. Careful what we wish for.

Is there anything to suggest that? BK Group seem to have a good record with teams they own. The ice hockey team, Bournemouth and the NZ team (fair enough only three games in, but won all three and top of the league).

Lorient and us, the two teams they don't have a majority steak in are the ones struggling. Lorient didn't listen and ended up relegated. Surely that should have alarm bells ringing at what could absolutely happen to us this year.

Gordons have worked wonders with the off field stuff. But it's evidently clear they have zero clue about running a good football team on the pitch.

[JohnM1875]

Pleased I started this thread now, I did not realise that.

😂

[Eyrie]

For one thing, it's Black Knight, not Black Knights.

"Tis but a letter".

[blackpoolhibs]

For one thing, it's Black Knight, not Black Knights.

We currently have the Barron Knights.

[Joe6-2]

We currently have the Barron Knights.

One for us oldies

[Kato]

It might not be good news that comes out of this. Careful what we wish for.Exactly.

They might throw coaches, a scouting team and some playing resources at us, and bring improvement like they have their other sporting ventures.


We don't want thrown into that briar patch.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Wheat Hound]

"Tis but a letter".

Call it a draw

[Alfred E Newman]

For one thing, it's Black Knight, not Black Knights.

The football we are being served up is definitely Black Knight.

[matty_f]

Neither do I, that’s kind of my point.

If we’re not getting help of people from other clubs, who will it be then? That’s all the black knights are, an investment group with shares in various clubs.

When Foley refers to the black knights as ‘we’, who does he mean? I don’t think for a second it was Foley who suggested they sacked Gary O’Neil and replaced him with Iraola (sp?), who would be advising the Black Knights is maybe a shorter way of asking the same question? 😃

It was Bournemouth’s Director of Football at the time who flagged to Foley that Iraola was available and they should move to get him.

In actual fact, Foley’s MO at Bournemouth hasn’t been to be the typical brash American running over the top of everyone, he’s been ambitious but very respectful of their traditions and the community - essentially exactly what you would want from an owner.

I listened to the podcast you shared, Tim B also mentioned respecting the league and traditions at Hibs.

To answer your question, I think Tim is leading it for Foley, and the group will ‘n want to have good people in each club feeding into him.

There will be the wider collective that they can draw on (such as the Ryans) to leverage money and expertise, technology etc but in terms of operations and day to day running, effectively they’ll have their people as much as possible, embedded in the clubs running things locally and feeding up into the group.

[H18S NX]

We currently have the Barron Knights....Ha-ha Excellent :top marks

[ChuckNor]

A contact of mine is in with a fan shareholder group at Shamrock Rovers. I’m told that Black Knights tried to acquire 25% of the club earlier this year (around the summer following an initial pitch in February). They were rejected over concerns about valuation and shareholder dilution.

Anyone here heard similar? Black Knights seem to be very active…

[matty_f]

A contact of mine is in with a fan shareholder group at Shamrock Rovers. I’m told that Black Knights tried to acquire 25% of the club earlier this year (around the summer following an initial pitch in February). They were rejected over concerns about valuation and shareholder dilution.

Anyone here heard similar? Black Knights seem to be very active…

They’ve made no secret about wanting more clubs on board and I think they’ve looked at Belgium and Portugal as options. I’m not sure what the value in an Irish side would be though, and I can’t recall seeing anything about them having an interest there.

[Phil MaGlass]

They’ve made no secret about wanting more clubs on board and I think they’ve looked at Belgium and Portugal as options. I’m not sure what the value in an Irish side would be though, and I can’t recall seeing anything about them having an interest there.
The value is I think that for little outlay investing in them Shamrock Rovers are raking it in from the Champions League.

[Bridge hibs]

They’ve made no secret about wanting more clubs on board and I think they’ve looked at Belgium and Portugal as options. I’m not sure what the value in an Irish side would be though, and I can’t recall seeing anything about them having an interest there.

I suppose regular European competitions could be good for the BK profile, other than another team in green and white I cant see the attraction from a financial position at least.

Or maybe not.

By reaching the league phase, Rovers guaranteed themselves a minimum €3.87 million, regardless of their results against APOEL, Larne, The New Saints, Rapid Vienna, Borac Banja Luka and Chelsea. Their draws against APOEL and Rapid added €133,000 each to their total, and each win has been worth €400,000

[CropleyWasGod]

I suppose regular European competitions could be good for the BK profile, other than another team in green and white I cant see the attraction from a financial position at least.

Or maybe not.

By reaching the league phase, Rovers guaranteed themselves a minimum €3.87 million, regardless of their results against APOEL, Larne, The New Saints, Rapid Vienna, Borac Banja Luka and Chelsea. Their draws against APOEL and Rapid added €133,000 each to their total, and each win has been worth €400,000

The attraction is in increasing the value of their investment. That is the same throughout their "group".

[Jock O]

The attraction is in increasing the value of their investment. That is the same throughout their "group".

Did you see that org chart that was on Twitter on their structure, the funding model was interesting, involving a number of what I would deem as Venture Capitalists, which as I suspect you well know are often very aggressive in their pursuit of increased value. I was surprised there was little comment on it at the time, I cannot find it again so not sure who posted it. It was not clear to me from it exactly how much financially each party had sunk into the group. and how much of a controlling interest Foley had/ I had meant to post it for a separate discussion but as usual forgot.

[7Hero]

https://www.americaneagle.com/projects/detail/black-knight-football-club

The Black Knight

[Jock O]

https://www.americaneagle.com/projects/detail/black-knight-football-club

The Black Knight

Isn't this just a marketing company including BK as one of their clients?

[ChuckNor]

Am now told from a very reliable source that Shamrock Rovers valued 25% of the club at just over €6.75m and that this was one of the sticking points over the investment.

[TrinityHFC]

Am now told from a very reliable source that Shamrock Rovers valued 25% of the club at just over €6.75m and that this was one of the sticking points over the investment.

Dermot Desmond paid €2m for 25%.

They pretty much make a loss of €2m a year which is less than their turnover although their position has improved a little with Euro qualification.

Their last balance sheet showed a negative net asset position.

I think a €24m plus valuation is a bit fanciful.

[matty_f]

Looks like your info may be spot on Chuck Nor, there was an article in the Times with a headline about Foley wanting to takeover Shamrock Rovers.

It was behind a paywall so didn’t see the full article.

[TrinityHFC]

Looks like your info may be spot on Chuck Nor, there was an article in the Times with a headline about Foley wanting to takeover Shamrock Rovers.

It was behind a paywall so didn’t see the full article.

There were discussions about a minority stake but quickly didn’t go anywhere as the valuation was fantasy.

Covered in most of the Irish press the last few days as there were details in the AGM docs recently sent out.

[CropleyWasGod]

Dermot Desmond paid €2m for 25%.

They pretty much make a loss of €2m a year which is less than their turnover although their position has improved a little with Euro qualification.

Their last balance sheet showed a negative net asset position.

I think a €24m plus valuation is a bit fanciful.

That valuation would put them on a par with Hibs. They don't even own their own ground. Like you say, way OTT.

The Euro money will help, of course, but one of their directors had to pump in €480k to help keep them going.

[Baader]

Shamrock Rovers worth over £25M? 🤣

[bingo70]

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/investin...lish-football/

“ In March, Foley paid around £6 million for a 25% share in Hibernian, which plays in Scotland’s Premiership. By the league’s rules, his ownership is limited to less than 30%. In July, after the Edinburgh club finished a disappointing eighth, Foley told the BBC that the club had not been listening to his input.

“Lorient really wouldn’t listen to us and they got relegated, and so now they’re listening,” he said in November. “Hibs wouldn't listen and they really screwed up.”

Foley said Hibernian’s leadership ignored his advice on appointments for manager, sporting director, and other key roles. When Hibernian later came around seeking additional investment from its owners, Foley said he gave them an ultimatum: “You can dilute us, but until you start listening, we're out. So now they’re going to be listening.”

[Paulie Walnuts]

Interesting quotes and not ones I’d seen before.

I said it before, but people constantly point to BKFC being a minority shareholder as if it means that they don’t matter. I fully expect BKFC to be pretty ruthless in forcing the Gordon’s to start doing things their way until they get full control. Fingers crossed that happens soon.

[green day]

Interesting quotes and not ones I’d seen before.

I said it before, but people constantly point to BKFC being a minority shareholder as if it means that they don’t matter. I fully expect BKFC to be pretty ruthless in forcing the Gordon’s to start doing things their way until they get full control. Fingers crossed that happens soon.

Yep

Ratcliffe is a minority shareholder in Man Utd and appears to be in charge.

[Not In The Know]

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/investin...lish-football/

“ In March, Foley paid around £6 million for a 25% share in Hibernian, which plays in Scotland’s Premiership. By the league’s rules, his ownership is limited to less than 30%. In July, after the Edinburgh club finished a disappointing eighth, Foley told the BBC that the club had not been listening to his input.

“Lorient really wouldn’t listen to us and they got relegated, and so now they’re listening,” he said in November. “Hibs wouldn't listen and they really screwed up.”

Foley said Hibernian’s leadership ignored his advice on appointments for manager, sporting director, and other key roles. When Hibernian later came around seeking additional investment from its owners, Foley said he gave them an ultimatum: “You can dilute us, but until you start listening, we're out. So now they’re going to be listening.”


Ian Gordon et al are clowns.

[JohnM1875]

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/investin...lish-football/

“ In March, Foley paid around £6 million for a 25% share in Hibernian, which plays in Scotland’s Premiership. By the league’s rules, his ownership is limited to less than 30%. In July, after the Edinburgh club finished a disappointing eighth, Foley told the BBC that the club had not been listening to his input.

“Lorient really wouldn’t listen to us and they got relegated, and so now they’re listening,” he said in November. “Hibs wouldn't listen and they really screwed up.”

Foley said Hibernian’s leadership ignored his advice on appointments for manager, sporting director, and other key roles. When Hibernian later came around seeking additional investment from its owners, Foley said he gave them an ultimatum: “You can dilute us, but until you start listening, we're out. So now they’re going to be listening.”

We must have listened to the ultimatum then. Appointment of Stewart points to that. Absolute diddies not listening to them in the first place.

[The Modfather]

We must have listened to the ultimatum then. Appointment of Stewart points to that. Absolute diddies not listening to them in the first place.

Classic Hibs. Start listening after we have made all our own appointments that, if they are not the correct appointments, will cost a lot of money to put right.

[Hibiza]

Honesty hurts .

[Pretty Boy]

Interesting quotes and not ones I’d seen before.

I said it before, but people constantly point to BKFC being a minority shareholder as if it means that they don’t matter. I fully expect BKFC to be pretty ruthless in forcing the Gordon’s to start doing things their way until they get full control. Fingers crossed that happens soon.

100%.

They are the real money men. Minority shareholders or not if they start threatening to withhold future investment they will get what they want pretty quickly.

[Paulie Walnuts]

100%.

They are the real money men. Minority shareholders or not if they start threatening to withhold future investment they will get what they want pretty quickly.

:agree:

[GreenPJ]

100%.

They are the real money men. Minority shareholders or not if they start threatening to withhold future investment they will get what they want pretty quickly.

Its a double edged sword though - no future investment is unlikely to help us improve our performance, which in turn impacts income, which in turn impacts their shareholding value. They clearly want to have more control and probably controlling ownership but they can't get that at the moment even if the Gordon's were willing to sell. So they are either willing to take a haircut on the value of their shareholding and get out or work with the current owners to improve the team performance/quality. I get the fact that their initial investment is a drop in the ocean for them really but it doesn't send out a good image for other clubs they may want to buy into but aren't in a position to get a full controlling ownership straight off.

[theonlywayisup]

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/investin...lish-football/

“ In March, Foley paid around £6 million for a 25% share in Hibernian, which plays in Scotland’s Premiership. By the league’s rules, his ownership is limited to less than 30%. In July, after the Edinburgh club finished a disappointing eighth, Foley told the BBC that the club had not been listening to his input.

“Lorient really wouldn’t listen to us and they got relegated, and so now they’re listening,” he said in November. “Hibs wouldn't listen and they really screwed up.”

Foley said Hibernian’s leadership ignored his advice on appointments for manager, sporting director, and other key roles. When Hibernian later came around seeking additional investment from its owners, Foley said he gave them an ultimatum: “You can dilute us, but until you start listening, we're out. So now they’re going to be listening.”

Like I've said in the SDG thread, I've convinced that by June 2025 the Black Knights will have their manager in charge and that won't be SDG, no matter how well he does up to the end of the season, if he survives that long. The appointment of Garvan Stewart as Head of Recruitment, is start of that process.

I feel sacking SDG early, is only going to disrupt their plans as I think it's easier getting the right manager at the end of the season rather than during. I would like to think they've already identified the person to replace SDG.

[Iain G]

Like I've said in the SDG thread, I've convinced that by June 2025 the Black Knights will have their manager in charge and that won't be SDG, no matter how well he does up to the end of the season, if he survives that long. The appointment of Garvan Stewart as Head of Recruitment, is start of that process.

I feel sacking SDG early, is only going to disrupt their plans as I think it's easier getting the right manager at the end of the season rather than during. I would like to think they've already identified the person to replace SDG.

Critchley will be available before the end of the season 😁

[gorgie greens]

Critchley will be available before the end of the season 😁

If results go our way on Thursday he might be available at the end of this month

[Donegal Hibby]

Like I've said in the SDG thread, I've convinced that by June 2025 the Black Knights will have their manager in charge and that won't be SDG, no matter how well he does up to the end of the season, if he survives that long. The appointment of Garvan Stewart as Head of Recruitment, is start of that process.

I feel sacking SDG early, is only going to disrupt their plans as I think it's easier getting the right manager at the end of the season rather than during. I would like to think they've already identified the person to replace SDG.

If Gray does well up to the end of the season and was then replaced I think it would be a disgraceful decision in all honesty and one I’d certainly wouldn’t be unhappy about if we treated him like that . Just my opinion though .

[CapitalGreen]

If Gray does well up to the end of the season and was then replaced I think it would be a disgraceful decision in all honesty and one I’d certainly wouldn’t be unhappy about if we treated him like that . Just my opinion though .

Define “doing well” by your standards because, let’s be honest, when it comes to players your bar is exceptionally low.

[Donegal Hibby]

Define “doing well” by your standards because, let’s be honest, when it comes to players your bar is exceptionally low.

It’s not really rocket science in working out what doing well would be though I suppose we all have different views on that like some of us like certain players where others don’t or some fans like to put the boot in and give some players a hard time as early possible where as others don’t.

[7Hero]

If Gray does well up to the end of the season and was then replaced I think it would be a disgraceful decision in all honesty and one I’d certainly wouldn’t be unhappy about if we treated him like that . Just my opinion though .

I have the opposite opinion, we have to reach higher than Gray. We have to get the right guy in the hot seat end of story, Gray is not that person, let him go at the end of the season after we scrape a top six finish.

[Donegal Hibby]

I have the opposite opinion, we have to reach higher than Gray. We have to get the right guy in the hot seat end of story, Gray is not that person, let him go at the end of the season after we scrape a top six finish.

Your quite entitled to your opinion mate though it’s not one I share .. we get top six , good cup run which depends on having a bit of luck I’d like to see him remain in charge where we have a clear out and with Stewart in hopefully some good signings in January and the summer which will improve us …

My opinion is we don’t know how high Gray can reach till we give him the time and the proper support ..

If we improve and do reasonably well I don’t see why we would get rid of him for another gamble.

[Unseen work]

Your quite entitled to your opinion mate though it’s not one I share .. we get top six , good cup run which depends on having a bit of luck I’d like to see him remain in charge where we have a clear out and with Stewart in hopefully some good signings in January and the summer which will improve us …

My opinion is we don’t know how high Gray can reach till we give him the time and the proper support ..

If we improve and do reasonably well I don’t see why we would get rid of him for another gamble.

Tbf in relation to your middle paragraph you could say that about most of our recent managers, and Gray has been the worst out the lot.

Gray also had the benefit of knowing the entires squad having been player and coach, knowing our weaknesses and then signing 12? Players in the summer

[Donegal Hibby]

Tbf in relation to your middle paragraph you could say that about most of our recent managers, and Gray has been the worst out the lot.

Gray also had the benefit of knowing the entires squad having been player and coach, knowing our weaknesses and then signing 12? Players in the summer

Yeah , you could as looking back on it now we probably didn’t give some of them enough time or support either . It’s basically been a whirlwind of change that’s constantly happening and not only with managers, staff but also the squad too which I think hasn’t helped either…

Gray certainly has the benefits of knowing the squad though how many players in it like Levitt , NMW , Amos , JDH etc are his players ? Some of the new signings haven’t worked out though I think most have , the one we were most unfortunate with was Bowie who probably was our marquee signing and one I think would have made a big difference .

Results and performances have improved in recent weeks and they will need to continue to do so but if they do I’m of the opinion Gray should stay .. I do find it strange after recent results some are still wanting him gone in truth.

[The Modfather]

Yeah , you could as looking back on it now we probably didn’t give some of them enough time or support either . It’s basically been a whirlwind of change that’s constantly happening and not only with managers, staff but also the squad too which I think hasn’t helped either…

Gray certainly has the benefits of knowing the squad though how many players in it like Levitt , NMW , Amos , JDH etc are his players ? Some of the new signings haven’t worked out though I think most have , the one we were most unfortunate with was Bowie who probably was our marquee signing and one I think would have made a big difference .

Results and performances have improved in recent weeks and they will need to continue to do so but if they do I’m of the opinion Gray should stay .. I do find it strange after recent results some are still wanting him gone in truth.

Do you really find it strange some, myself included, still don’t think he’s the right man? Recent results have only seen us climb to the heady heights of 9th, having finally come off bottom spot after week 17. Gray needs a Barry Robson-esque end to the season to climb above the dross that preceded him IMO. Where it’s those fine margins as to whether you stumble over the line into the top 6 (Johnson) or fall short at the death (Monty).

I’ve yet to see anything from Gray that gives hope we will ever be more than just one of the pack of utter dross. As capable of 5th as 10th. Gray might be in a better position if he didn’t want to simply recruit coaches he knew, or players he also knew. Be it Triantis & Myko. Or backing the likes of Newell, Campbell, C Cadden & Miller to come good despite the evidence he has seen under various managers.

[Real Emerald]

Yeah , you could as looking back on it now we probably didn’t give some of them enough time or support either . It’s basically been a whirlwind of change that’s constantly happening and not only with managers, staff but also the squad too which I think hasn’t helped either…

Gray certainly has the benefits of knowing the squad though how many players in it like Levitt , NMW , Amos , JDH etc are his players ? Some of the new signings haven’t worked out though I think most have , the one we were most unfortunate with was Bowie who probably was our marquee signing and one I think would have made a big difference .

Results and performances have improved in recent weeks and they will need to continue to do so but if they do I’m of the opinion Gray should stay .. I do find it strange after recent results some are still wanting him gone in truth..

Oh come on, you’re constantly trying to sugar coat a turd. The signings we’ve made are nowhere near good enough (Bowie apart) and our performances, results and league position are an absolute disgrace. David Gray was absolutely the wrong man for the job in the situation we were in and regardless of how much we all like him, the Black Knights will shortly and rightly wield their sword.

[Donegal Hibby]

.

Oh come on, you’re constantly trying to sugar coat a turd. The signings we’ve made are nowhere near good enough (Bowie apart) and our performances, results and league position are an absolute disgrace. David Gray was absolutely the wrong man for the job in the situation we were in and regardless of how much we all like him, the Black Knights will shortly and rightly wield their sword.

Ekpiteta , N.Cadden , Smith , Hoilett have been decent to name a few .

Some performances and results have been bad and others have been good like our two league trips away to the OF have probably been the best I’ve seen us play there in years, Motherwell away , Aberdeen home to name a few again.

Maybe they will wield their sword if the Gordon’s ok it first though.

[Real Emerald]

Ekpiteta , N.Cadden , Smith , Hoilett have been decent to name a few .

Some performances and results have been bad and others have been good like our two league trips away to the OF have probably been the best I’ve seen us play there in years, Motherwell away , Aberdeen home to name a few again.

Maybe they will wield their sword if the Gordon’s ok it first though.

It’s absolutely fine if you think it’s acceptable where Hibs are and the level of signings we’re making. Shoot for the stars and you may hit the moon, settle for mediocrity and we’ll get relegated. We have to start setting higher standards and not sugar coating this, we are failing and getting worse. I admire your optimism but get real, we’re firefighting.

[Donegal Hibby]

It’s absolutely fine if you think it’s acceptable where Hibs are and the level of signings we’re making. Shoot for the stars and you may hit the moon, settle for mediocrity and we’ll get relegated. We have to start setting higher standards and not sugar coating this, we are failing and getting worse. I admire your optimism but get real, we’re firefighting.

No I think some of them haven’t worked out and some have been decent . I do like N Cadden tbh . We picked up 7 points from 12 after playing the top two teams and the one in fifth spot while scoring 9 goals in the process which I think is good and grounds to feel a bit more optimistic.

[Real Emerald]

No I think some of them haven’t worked out and some have been decent . I do like N Cadden tbh . We picked up 7 points from 12 after playing the top two teams and the one in fifth spot while scoring 9 goals in the process which I think is good and grounds to feel a bit more optimistic.

I like Nicky Cadden too, let’s see what January brings and hopefully a much improved summer window. We simply have to survive in this league and I can’t see David Gray being the answer to that problem, unfortunately. Hopefully our new recruitment guy has a plan.

[Donegal Hibby]

I like Nicky Cadden too, let’s see what January brings and hopefully a much improved summer window. We simply have to survive in this league and I can’t see David Gray being the answer to that problem, unfortunately. Hopefully our new recruitment guy has a plan.

We have three tight games coming up now and hopefully we can continue to pick up some points as we have in recent games RE 👍

[supermcginn]

I have the opposite opinion, we have to reach higher than Gray. We have to get the right guy in the hot seat end of story, Gray is not that person, let him go at the end of the season after we scrape a top six finish.

Couldn't agree more, he is never the answer.

[greenlex]

I’m sure Bournemouth raised a few eyebrows fairly recently when they got rid of a manager that had done reasonably well. David Gray won’t survive the black knights even if he’s successful.

[Allant1981]

Was always going to be the case they would want to be involved more, and thankfully that's looking to be the case now as the current owners just don't seem capable of making us better on the park, it's great bringing in money off the park but most football fans won't be that fussed about that

[Bostonhibby]

Critchley will be available before the end of the season [emoji16]Careful what you wish for, if we let a super computer select the best candidate as McKinlay did he could be our man[emoji23]

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[CentreLine]

Was always going to be the case they would want to be involved more, and thankfully that's looking to be the case now as the current owners just don't seem capable of making us better on the park, it's great bringing in money off the park but most football fans won't be that fussed about that

Football supporters need to wake up then if the club making money off the park is not important to them. In the present world of football it is the money generated off the park that keeps clubs solvent. The more there is the more chance the club has of financing the means of success on the park.

[7Hero]

So who should we have to the end of the season?

I certainly didn't say we should get rid of him now ,neither did poster you uvare replying too..but we have to aim higher and the club must now be setting the wheels in motion to do an extensive search of the man who fits the criterias of what we need.

If the board are right now doing absolutely heehaw in the background and waiting for David to fail in a couple of results before they appoint a quick hurried successor then they are doing us an injustice ,

AGAIN...

Let him keep us up, surely he can do that , then let's appoint a proper successor.

[7Hero]

Football supporters need to wake up then if the club making money off the park is not important to them. In the present world of football it is the money generated off the park that keeps clubs solvent. The more there is the more chance the club has of financing the means of success on the park.

Spurs made plenty money still won heehaw..hubs revenues increased dramatically recently yet negative success.

All very good creating the revenue but wasting it is the biggest issue here

[Brightside]

Ekpiteta , N.Cadden , Smith , Hoilett have been decent to name a few .

Some performances and results have been bad and others have been good like our two league trips away to the OF have probably been the best I’ve seen us play there in years, Motherwell away , Aberdeen home to name a few again.

Maybe they will wield their sword if the Gordon’s ok it first though.

Decent has a much lower level this season eh. Cadden has been a good signing

[Not In The Know]

I’m sure Bournemouth raised a few eyebrows fairly recently when they got rid of a manager that had done reasonably well. David Gray won’t survive the black knights even if he’s successful.

Bang on.

A lot of people were shocked when they booted O’Neil. He was ok but not the level BKs wanted. Gray if he improves falls into the ok bracket. So I don’t see much of a future for him if BKs take full control.

[BoomtownHibees]

Ekpiteta , N.Cadden , Smith , Hoilett have been decent to name a few .

Some performances and results have been bad and others have been good like our two league trips away to the OF have probably been the best I’ve seen us play there in years, Motherwell away , Aberdeen home to name a few again.

Maybe they will wield their sword if the Gordon’s ok it first though.

From the amount of players you think have been decent, adding in Gray as being the right man for the job, I’m shocked we’ve only won 3 games all season

[CentreLine]

Spurs made plenty money still won heehaw..hubs revenues increased dramatically recently yet negative success.

All very good creating the revenue but wasting it is the biggest issue here

Now you’ve nailed it. It’s not the fault of the person that creates the wealth if the person that spends it does so badly.

[matty_f]

Shows how close Hibs were to ****ing the whole opportunity up. Plenty of folk called it at the time, it was an incredible bit of ineptitude and some might say arrogance from the club to dismiss BKFC at the first opportunity to get the ball rolling on the partnership.
Thankfully things seem to be in a good place at the moment, BKFC are on record as saying they’re increasing involvement at Hibs, Garvan Stewart is already here and I’m told on good authority that there’s “more to come”.

[superfurryhibby]

Shows how close Hibs were to ****ing the whole opportunity up. Plenty of folk called it at the time, it was an incredible bit of ineptitude and some might say arrogance from the club to dismiss BKFC at the first opportunity to get the ball rolling on the partnership.
Thankfully things seem to be in a good place at the moment, BKFC are on record as saying they’re increasing involvement at Hibs, Garvan Stewart is already here and I’m told on good authority that there’s “more to come”.

Why do you think that happened?

It was very odd to enter into partnership, take the investment and then renege on an agreement immediately?

I'm also interested in what the involvement of BK's will entail for Hibs. Where will this lead and what do you think the BKFC aims are?

[Donegal Hibby]

From the amount of players you think have been decent, adding in Gray as being the right man for the job, I’m shocked we’ve only won 3 games all season

I’m not saying Gray is the right man , I’m saying he should be given more time to see if he is , some seem to have made up their minds he’s not which as me wondering who they think is ? .

A bit shocked we haven’t won more too though there’s quite a few we have made individual mistakes in like Killie away,losing a last minute penalty, Dundee utd leading 2-1 only to go down to ten men and lose just to name a few .

[Wilson]

From the amount of players you think have been decent, adding in Gray as being the right man for the job, I’m shocked we’ve only won 3 games all season

We were starting from a deficit of retiring club legends and big signings being shipped back out. I'd argue some of these players are the right sort. That the recruitment team was heading in the right direction. We just had too much to do. Too many to move on - because of past failures in recruitment.

I want Gray to be the right man and I'd like to see the quality of players available to him improve again.

[I'm_cabbaged]

We were starting from a deficit of retiring club legends and big signings being shipped back out. I'd argue some of these players are the right sort. That the recruitment team was heading in the right direction. We just had too much to do. Too many to move on - because of past failures in recruitment.

I want Gray to be the right man and I'd like to see the quality of players available to him improve again.

If we had Rodri and De Bruyne in midfield we’d still be trying to get the ball wide at every opportunity

[Scotty Leither]

Shows how close Hibs were to ****ing the whole opportunity up. Plenty of folk called it at the time, it was an incredible bit of ineptitude and some might say arrogance from the club to dismiss BKFC at the first opportunity to get the ball rolling on the partnership.
Thankfully things seem to be in a good place at the moment, BKFC are on record as saying they’re increasing involvement at Hibs, Garvan Stewart is already here and I’m told on good authority that there’s “more to come”.

C’mon Matty you cannae leave that there…”more to come” - is that in respect to players or back room staff?

Pray tell mate?

[Ozyhibby]

The situation we are in just now makes it almost impossible for Gray to get to a position by the end of the season where his job is not on the line. Any Hibs manager outside the top 5 is going to be in trouble and it’s no different for Gray. It becomes even harder knowing the BK’s didn’t want him in the first place and also that they have form for moving on even successful managers.


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[J-C]

Was there not a guy from Bournemouth up a few weeks back looking around the place, I wonder if he was impressed by Gray and maybe recruitment is the problem, hence Stewart arriving, possibly Mackay moving on.

[Northernhibee]

Was there not a guy from Bournemouth up a few weeks back looking around the place, I wonder if he was impressed by Gray and maybe recruitment is the problem, hence Stewart arriving, possibly Mackay moving on.

Aiden McGeady waxed lyrical about SDG being an excellent coach.

[J-C]

Aiden McGeady waxed lyrical about SDG being an excellent coach.

This was my thinking.

[bingo70]

Was there not a guy from Bournemouth up a few weeks back looking around the place, I wonder if he was impressed by Gray and maybe recruitment is the problem, hence Stewart arriving, possibly Mackay moving on.

Slightly pedantic point as he is based in Bournemouth so you’re sort of right but it was Tim Bezbatchenko who was up. He’s not a Bournemouth employee though, he’s the heid haunch of the black knight group.

Also, on a similar but slightly different point, at a recent Bournemouth game the commentator mentioned the Bournemouth manager had been up in Edinburgh during the international break. Assuming Hibs aren’t up to head hunt him 😃, I wonder if he was there to help Gray, presumably they wouldn’t be sending him up to grass on a fellow manager if they were struggling and optimally more realistically was up to offer some help to Gray.

[ChuckNor]

Dermot Desmond paid €2m for 25%.

They pretty much make a loss of €2m a year which is less than their turnover although their position has improved a little with Euro qualification.

Their last balance sheet showed a negative net asset position.

I think a €24m plus valuation is a bit fanciful.

Valuation was insane, even given for how inflated values are in Ireland generally. I don’t know if they own the training campus in Dublin, but if they do then that may help. Either way, I was told Foley balked at the valuation, as the press in Ireland subsequently reported via the AGM docs.

[A Hi-Bee]

Slightly pedantic point as he is based in Bournemouth so you’re sort of right but it was Tim Bezbatchenko who was up. He’s not a Bournemouth employee though, he’s the heid haunch of the black knight group.

Also, on a similar but slightly different point, at a recent Bournemouth game the commentator mentioned the Bournemouth manager had been up in Edinburgh during the international break. Assuming Hibs aren’t up to head hunt him 😃, I wonder if he was there to help Gray, presumably they wouldn’t be sending him up to grass on a fellow manager if they were struggling and optimally more realistically was up to offer some help to Gray.

If you had heard the full interview you would have heard that his visit to Edinburgh was for the Xmas market as a break for a few days, away from football, even managers need a wee break now and then.

[bingo70]

If you had heard the full interview you would have heard that his visit to Edinburgh was for the Xmas market as a break for a few days, away from football, even managers need a wee break now and then.

Ah, I didn’t hear the interview, was just told about it or read on here.

[04Sauzee]

Shows how close Hibs were to ****ing the whole opportunity up. Plenty of folk called it at the time, it was an incredible bit of ineptitude and some might say arrogance from the club to dismiss BKFC at the first opportunity to get the ball rolling on the partnership.
Thankfully things seem to be in a good place at the moment, BKFC are on record as saying they’re increasing involvement at Hibs, Garvan Stewart is already here and I’m told on good authority that there’s “more to come”.

Have you heard the same as me? You tell me what you have heard and I'll say if it's the same🤪🤪🤪🤪

[A Hi-Bee]

Have you heard the same as me? You tell me what you have heard and I'll say if it's the same🤪🤪🤪🤪

Well I heard, nae could never reveal a confidence.

[matty_f]

C’mon Matty you cannae leave that there…”more to come” - is that in respect to players or back room staff?

Pray tell mate?

Literally the message I got was “more to come” - I wish I had more to say!!

[J-C]

Literally the message I got was “more to come” - I wish I had more to say!!

Similar to what I was told, big changes behind the scenes.

[matty_f]

Why do you think that happened?

It was very odd to enter into partnership, take the investment and then renege on an agreement immediately?

I'm also interested in what the involvement of BK's will entail for Hibs. Where will this lead and what do you think the BKFC aims are?

Honest answer is I think it happened because we have poor decision makers at the club, and I think the desire to get Malky on board was given higher priority than looking at starting down the road to being a multi club team. It was an error of judgement imho.

I think BKFC see a number of advantages of being in this relationship - player development, European participation and a club with a lot of potential to greatly increase its value.

[Ronniekirk]

Similar to what I was told, big changes behind the scenes.

Well I suppose it’s Panto Season
It’s big changes on the park we need We keep changing things and appointing new people in different roles Spending more money in the process and to date it’s only made us worse
But if a change of Scenery brings out better performances on the park I might get myself a front row seat again

[WhileTheChief..]

Article here about Tim Bezba if you want to more about him and what his role is….

https://www.nhl.com/goldenknights/news/black-knight-football-club-names-tim-bezbatchenko-president

[J-C]

Well I suppose it’s Panto Season
It’s big changes on the park we need We keep changing things and appointing new people in different roles Spending more money in the process and to date it’s only made us worse
But if a change of Scenery brings out better performances on the park I might get myself a front row seat again

Stewart coming in is the beginning of BK taking over, if he's head of recruitment, where does that leave Malky? was he not DOF and meant to be doing the recruitment.

[offshorehibby]

Stewart coming in is the beginning of BK taking over, if he's head of recruitment, where does that leave Malky? was he not DOF and meant to be doing the recruitment.

Malky will still be DoF a role which is much wider than just recruitment. The new boy is recruitment answering to Malky in theory.

Only things that might change is BK's eventually bring in their own DoF and maybe manager.

[Northernhibee]

Any coincidence in an upturn in our fortunes as they appear to be getting more involved?

[bingo70]

Any coincidence in an upturn in our fortunes as they appear to be getting more involved?

Just dug out this thread to ask the same question.

Lot of focus on what the BK’s will bring to the table from a recruitment perspective but that wasn’t to be their only input. Wonder if there’s been other input, possibly from a tactical, coaching or opposition analysis perspective that has helped?

[Murphys Touch]

Just dug out this thread to ask the same question.

Lot of focus on what the BK’s will bring to the table from a recruitment perspective but that wasn’t to be their only input. Wonder if there’s been other input, possibly from a tactical, coaching or opposition analysis perspective that has helped?

And a motivational one!!! “You guys are out unless….”

[bingo70]

And a motivational one!!! “You guys are out unless….”

Rocky and Youann playing out their skins trying to get a move to L’orient? 😜

[Forza Fred]

I think BKFC see a number of advantages of being in this relationship - player development, European participation and a club with a lot of potential to greatly increase its value.

Get that re us and possibly Lorient but a bit baffled how Auckland fits into the strategy.

Fitba in New Zealand certainly isn’t anywhere near a ‘big’ sport…..so much so that their top two teams have had to get permission from FIFA to play in the Australian A League.

NewZealand’s population is slightly less than Scotland’s…..and they certainly don’t produce a lot of young players likely to make it in Europe.

Club wise, whereas Hibs can qualify for Europe…..even if Auckland win the A League by a mile, they cannot compete in the equivalent of European competitions down here eg The Asian Championship, because they come from a country (New Zealand) that isn’t a member of the Asian Confederation..but the Oceania confederation.

Good luck to Auckland, Foley seems happy enough to bankroll them just now, but as I say, I’m not sure where they fit in, in his grand plan.

[Hibee87]

Was it not confirmed somewhere that Gray, and I imagine all the first team coaching staff, went down to Bournemouth during the last international break in November? I wonder if that little trip and chats etc has had a bearing on the upturn also

[Jock O]

Just dug out this thread to ask the same question.

Lot of focus on what the BK’s will bring to the table from a recruitment perspective but that wasn’t to be their only input. Wonder if there’s been other input, possibly from a tactical, coaching or opposition analysis perspective that has helped?

Surely you are not suggesting this seriously, effectively undermining Gray's daily position. The analysis possibly maybe but the rest is effectively saying they have been responsible for any turn around not Gray and his team. Really?

[bingo70]

Surely you are not suggesting this seriously, effectively undermining Gray's daily position. The analysis possibly maybe but the rest is effectively saying they have been responsible for any turn around not Gray and his team. Really?

Eh? No, that’s not what I’m saying.

Gray is deserving of all the praise in the world for the turnaround. Asking a question if he’s learned from the black knights or listened to people within the group isn’t a criticism of him.

[Jock O]

Eh? No, that’s not what I’m saying.

Gray is deserving of all the praise in the world for the turnaround. Asking a question if he’s learned from the black knights or listened to people within the group isn’t a criticism of him.

Okay, I read that as you saying effectively they were taking the team during the games. I have obviously misread that. My bad.

[JohnM1875]

Get that re us and possibly Lorient but a bit baffled how Auckland fits into the strategy.

Fitba in New Zealand certainly isn’t anywhere near a ‘big’ sport…..so much so that their top two teams have had to get permission from FIFA to play in the Australian A League.

NewZealand’s population is slightly less than Scotland’s…..and they certainly don’t produce a lot of young players likely to make it in Europe.

Club wise, whereas Hibs can qualify for Europe…..even if Auckland win the A League by a mile, they cannot compete in the equivalent of European competitions down here eg The Asian Championship, because they come from a country (New Zealand) that isn’t a member of the Asian Confederation..but the Oceania confederation.

Good luck to Auckland, Foley seems happy enough to bankroll them just now, but as I say, I’m not sure where they fit in, in his grand plan.

Surely its to secure the best talent from Oceania/Australia and either sell them on for profit or move them to their other clubs?

Seems to be a lot of talent from Aus making their way over to Europe these days.

[18Craig75]

Get that re us and possibly Lorient but a bit baffled how Auckland fits into the strategy.

Fitba in New Zealand certainly isn’t anywhere near a ‘big’ sport…..so much so that their top two teams have had to get permission from FIFA to play in the Australian A League.

NewZealand’s population is slightly less than Scotland’s…..and they certainly don’t produce a lot of young players likely to make it in Europe.

Club wise, whereas Hibs can qualify for Europe…..even if Auckland win the A League by a mile, they cannot compete in the equivalent of European competitions down here eg The Asian Championship, because they come from a country (New Zealand) that isn’t a member of the Asian Confederation..but the Oceania confederation.

Good luck to Auckland, Foley seems happy enough to bankroll them just now, but as I say, I’m not sure where they fit in, in his grand plan.

I’m that I read or listened in a podcast that Auckland was the biggest city in the world without a professional football team? Maybe they just saw an opportunity to start something from a blank canvas that wouldn’t struggle to gain support from their locality.

[matty_f]

Surely its to secure the best talent from Oceania/Australia and either sell them on for profit or move them to their other clubs?

Seems to be a lot of talent from Aus making their way over to Europe these days.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there.

[Forza Fred]

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there.

There is, but I guess the sticking point for me is that a lot of those exports ‘development’ occurred at the Oz club where they went through their academies…

Auckland is a 3.5hour flight from Melbourne/Sydney, ( roughly the same length as Edinburgh to Sofia in Bulgaria) and between them have a population of just under 10 million…….but hardly what one would call Auckland’s ‘catchment area’ for youngsters in the 14-17 year old age group.

Not a lot of families would be willing to give up their jobs, sell their houses and leave Oz because their son was offered a spot in an Auckland youth set up I’d suggest, when they would already presumably be attached to the likes of Melbourne Victory or Sydney FC.

My assumption therefore is that it will be existing A League players that fill their playing rosters down the track…who have already shown their abilities, or what is considered to be the best young talent in N.Z.

The discussion then returns to the number of youngsters locally in New Zealand who are identified as being suitable for possible ‘development’ to European standard…which hasn’t been high so far.

As I say, good luck to Auckland, but If I was looking to be a developer of young talent I’d be looking for a bigger ‘catchment area’ nearer home.

And one where success would allow the club to play in the Asian competitions.

[Ozyhibby]

There is, but I guess the sticking point for me is that a lot of those exports ‘development’ occurred at the Oz club where they went through their academies…

Auckland is a 3.5hour flight from Melbourne/Sydney, ( roughly the same length as Edinburgh to Sofia in Bulgaria) and between them have a population of just under 10 million…….but hardly what one would call Auckland’s ‘catchment area’ for youngsters in the 14-17 year old age group.

Not a lot of families would be willing to give up their jobs, sell their houses and leave Oz because their son was offered a spot in an Auckland youth set up I’d suggest, when they would already presumably be attached to the likes of Melbourne Victory or Sydney FC.

My assumption therefore is that it will be existing A League players that fill their playing rosters down the track…who have already shown their abilities, or what is considered to be the best young talent in N.Z.

The discussion then returns to the number of youngsters locally in New Zealand who are identified as being suitable for possible ‘development’ to European standard…which hasn’t been high so far.

As I say, good luck to Auckland, but If I was looking to be a developer of young talent I’d be looking for a bigger ‘catchment area’ nearer home.

And one where success would allow the club to play in the Asian competitions.

Not saying they do but couldn’t Auckland run academies in Sydney/Melbourne?


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[matty_f]

There is, but I guess the sticking point for me is that a lot of those exports ‘development’ occurred at the Oz club where they went through their academies…

Auckland is a 3.5hour flight from Melbourne/Sydney, ( roughly the same length as Edinburgh to Sofia in Bulgaria) and between them have a population of just under 10 million…….but hardly what one would call Auckland’s ‘catchment area’ for youngsters in the 14-17 year old age group.

Not a lot of families would be willing to give up their jobs, sell their houses and leave Oz because their son was offered a spot in an Auckland youth set up I’d suggest, when they would already presumably be attached to the likes of Melbourne Victory or Sydney FC.

My assumption therefore is that it will be existing A League players that fill their playing rosters down the track…who have already shown their abilities, or what is considered to be the best young talent in N.Z.

The discussion then returns to the number of youngsters locally in New Zealand who are identified as being suitable for possible ‘development’ to European standard…which hasn’t been high so far.

As I say, good luck to Auckland, but If I was looking to be a developer of young talent I’d be looking for a bigger ‘catchment area’ nearer home.

And one where success would allow the club to play in the Asian competitions.

I’m not sure that’ll be a sticking point. I guess they’ll look for players who could move to Auckland without spending what they’d have to spend if they were signing straight to Bournemouth, at an earlier stage in their career, spend a season in the A-League, a season in Scotland, then either France or into Bournemouth.
It won’t necessarily have to be youth players.

[Forza Fred]

Not saying they do but couldn’t Auckland run academies in Sydney/Melbourne?
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They could run them in Edinburgh I suppose….

They actually have a ‘development pathway’ for Enzed youngsters documented that involves a lot of local clubs and is due to commence next year.

I hope in the years to come they manage to produce lots and lots of players from NZ who will take Europe by storm, but history suggests this might not be the case, and pretty sure if most on here were looking for a country to churn out players, first pick wouldn’t be New Zealand.

Foley seems to have some kind of affinity with Auckland, saying he ‘feels at home’ there….I can only assume he has a yacht, as Auckland really is the city of sails and some of the yachts you see are worth millions.

If I was a billionaire and looking for a club to acquire though it undoubtedly would have been Central Coast Mariners who, on the outskirts of Greater Sydney have their Academy highly rated by the Asian Confederation and sell half a team overseas just about every season…….despite that they operate on a shoestring and rumour has it (that hasn’t hit the media yet) that there is an ownership change about to happen.

[Forza Fred]

I’m that I read or listened in a podcast that Auckland was the biggest city in the world without a professional football team? Maybe they just saw an opportunity to start something from a blank canvas that wouldn’t struggle to gain support from their locality.

Not strictly true.

NZ does have what I guess would be termed a semi professional league and Auckland City are current Oceania champions.

They are due to play in the World Club Championship next season and are drawn in the same group as Bayern Munich and Benfica.

It will be interesting to see how they go.

[Bridge hibs]

Not strictly true.

NZ does have what I guess would be termed a semi professional league and Auckland City are current Oceania champions.

They are due to play in the World Club Championship next season and are drawn in the same group as Bayern Munich and Benfica.

It will be interesting to see how they go.Would there be more financial gain for Auckland city qualifying and playing in the world club championship than Auckland fc would gain playing one season in the A league ?

Im not sure of the stature financially of Auckland city nor the sort of gates they bring in playing in their local league.

[Forza Fred]

Would there be more financial gain for Auckland city qualifying and playing in the world club championship than Auckland fc would gain playing one season in the A league ?

Im not sure of the stature financially of Auckland city nor the sort of gates they bring in playing in their local league.

Don’t think there is ANY gain playing in the A League.

No prize money for winning it…….merely a toilet seat looking trophy……!

Dunno what teams get for playing in the World Club championship.

It is estimated that it costs about 11 million dollars to run an A League club for a year, and other than gate money, all they get is about half a million in tv money.

A few clubs are in trouble financially…and tbh I am surprised the A League in its current form is still afloat.

Ps I looked up Mr Google and if I read it correctly last season Auckland City’s average crowd was 300.
Yep that’s hundred, not thousand.

[Bridge hibs]

Don’t think there is ANY gain playing in the A League.

No prize money for winning it…….merely a toilet seat looking trophy……!

Dunno what teams get for playing in the World Club championship.

It is estimated that it costs about 11 million dollars to run an A League club for a year, and other than gate money, all they get is about half a million in tv money.

A few clubs are in trouble financially…and tbh I am surprised the A League in its current form is still afloat.Cheers Fred, I remember watching the A league when it first hit our screens here and there was a lot of hoo ha, I remember we had full match analysis pre and post match with former players in the studio such as Bosnich, Shwartzer (sp?) but now its just cut to the tunnel or straight to the match and when its over theres nowt, shame as I used to enjoy all of that.

[Forza Fred]

Cheers Fred, I remember watching the A league when it first hit our screens here and there was a lot of hoo ha, I remember we had full match analysis pre and post match with former players in the studio such as Bosnich, Shwartzer (sp?) but now its just cut to the tunnel or straight to the match and when its over theres nowt, shame as I used to enjoy all of that.

Foxtel didn’t bid for the tv rights and it went to Paramount….who cover the games but don’t pay anything like Foxtel did…and who, as you say provide minimal coverage…..sometimes using commentators who are not at the game, but in the studio.

I think the contract rights are up for grabs next year….and the A League will be doing well to get anyone bidding for the rights.

Rugby League and AFL dwarf football in tv money.

[Bridge hibs]

Foxtel didn’t bid for the tv rights and it went to Paramount….who cover the games but don’t pay anything like Foxtel did…and who, as you say provide minimal coverage…..sometimes using commentators who are not at the game, but in the studio.

I think the contract rights are up for grabs next year….and the A League will be doing well to get anyone bidding for the rights.

Rugby League and AFL dwarf football in tv money.I have noticed that this season in particular there have been a raft of youth players making there debuts for clubs top to bottom with some teams barely having a smattering at most of experienced players, possibly as to what you allude to with regards tight purse strings. Again going back to the Foxtel coverage there appeared to be the same players week in and week out and season after season with many players appearing to remain at there respected clubs for a few seasons.

[Forza Fred]

I have noticed that this season in particular there have been a raft of youth players making there debuts for clubs top to bottom with some teams barely having a smattering at most of experienced players, possibly as to what you allude to with regards tight purse strings. Again going back to the Foxtel coverage there appeared to be the same players week in and week out and season after season with many players appearing to remain at there respected clubs for a few seasons.

Yep.

One of the concerns when they go to renegotiate the tv contract is that the tv companies will say “Why should we pay that much for what is now a ‘development’ league.

[JohnM1875]

Looks like the SFA have approved and will give James Bord the go-ahead to purchase Dunfermline, doesn't mention % so could be a controlling stake. Interesting as he (or his company, Short Circuit Science) also has minority shares in La Liga 2 team, Cordoba CF

Get it's different as it's a minority stake in another team and the Black Knights own Bournemouth.

[Bridge hibs]

Looks like the SFA have approved and will give James Bord the go-ahead to purchase Dunfermline, doesn't mention % so could be a controlling stake. Interesting as he (or his company, Short Circuit Science) also has minority shares in La Liga 2 team, Cordoba CF

Get it's different as it's a minority stake in another team and the Black Knights own Bournemouth.Mish Moneypenny, he says in a James Bord accent

Or not 🫣

[Pretty Boy]

Interesting piece on Football Focus about Bournemouth this afternoon.

They seem to be getting just about everything right at the moment.

[Ozyhibby]

Interesting piece on Football Focus about Bournemouth this afternoon.

They seem to be getting just about everything right at the moment.

It sounds like we are back in the Boack Knights tent now. Hopefully no more f’ing about now by the Gordons or Kensall.


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[04Sauzee]

Interesting piece on Football Focus about Bournemouth this afternoon.

They seem to be getting just about everything right at the moment.

Looks like they have signed a LB from Argentina and are about to sign a young 17 year old GK from Chelsea.

[Lago]

Interesting piece on Football Focus about Bournemouth this afternoon.

They seem to be getting just about everything right at the moment.
Was interesting, plenty praise for Bournemouth, spoke about the new stadium all seems well under Foley.

[Ozyhibby]

Was interesting, plenty praise for Bournemouth, spoke about the new stadium all seems well under Foley.

Another win today. Sitting 7th.


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[matty_f]

Another win today. Sitting 7th.


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Some going for a team their size, you’d have to say.

[Since452]

Noticed Lorient are top of the league. Looking good.

[Bridge hibs]

Some going for a team their size, you’d have to say.

Its not the size that counts

[Since452]

Its not the size that counts

So my Mrs reassures me

[Ozyhibby]

Noticed Lorient are top of the league. Looking good.

And since they came back into the fold at Hibs our fortunes have improved.[emoji106]


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[Bridge hibs]

So my Mrs reassures me

Yeah she told me the same

[Jock O]

And since they came back into the fold at Hibs our fortunes have improved.[emoji106]


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When you say they have come back into the fold, what exactly do you know they have been doing last few weeks to improve our fortunes. Or what do you think they might have been doing?

[Ozyhibby]

When you say they have come back into the fold, what exactly do you know they have been doing last few weeks to improve our fortunes. Or what do you think they might have been doing?

No clue whatsoever, just that we put out a statement saying they were going to be more involved and immediately results improved. Doesn’t matter to me why.


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[Paulie Walnuts]

Interesting piece on Football Focus about Bournemouth this afternoon.

They seem to be getting just about everything right at the moment.

There was posters on here recently suggesting that Bournemouth were absolutely not succeeding right now. Absolutely mental.

They’re an incredibly well run club and we’re very lucky to be a part of the group. It’s down to us now to make the most of being part of it.

[Onceinawhile]

There was posters on here recently suggesting that Bournemouth were absolutely not succeeding right now. Absolutely mental.

They’re an incredibly well run club and we’re very lucky to be a part of the group. It’s down to us now to make the most of being part of it.

Vgk second in their conference too.

[Ozyhibby]

Vgk second in their conference too.

Top. And flying just now.


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[JohnM1875]

There was posters on here recently suggesting that Bournemouth were absolutely not succeeding right now. Absolutely mental.

They’re an incredibly well run club and we’re very lucky to be a part of the group. It’s down to us now to make the most of being part of it.

I really hope the end goal, and it's done pretty quickly, is full ownership by the Black Knights. I know it'll need SFA approval first.

I do think they'll provide a tonne of help as minority owners, but think we'd really kick on if we were fully owned by them.

[matty_f]

I really hope the end goal, and it's done pretty quickly, is full ownership by the Black Knights. I know it'll need SFA approval first.

I do think they'll provide a tonne of help as minority owners, but think we'd really kick on if we were fully owned by them.

I think if we were fully owned by them then we’d be levels above where we are now. Their spend on Bournemouth has been significant, as it has been with Auckland and Vegas Golden Knights. I think of they were to buy us completely we’d see massive improvements.

[04Sauzee]

Lorient drop to 2nd after losing to stade laval

[Ozyhibby]

Lorient drop to 2nd after losing to stade laval

Black Knights out.[emoji35][emoji23]


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[Jock O]

No clue whatsoever, just that we put out a statement saying they were going to be more involved and immediately results improved. Doesn’t matter to me why.


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So it is every bit as likely, some would say more likely that was just pure coincidence and David Gray and his players have turned it round, with at best a bit of external consultancy.

But its easier to not give credit.

[Ozyhibby]

So it is every bit as likely, some would say more likely that was just pure coincidence and David Gray and his players have turned it round, with at best a bit of external consultancy.

But its easier to not give credit.

I am giving everyone credit. Including Gray. Why deny the BK’s credit?


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[Steve-O]

Get that re us and possibly Lorient but a bit baffled how Auckland fits into the strategy.

Fitba in New Zealand certainly isn’t anywhere near a ‘big’ sport…..so much so that their top two teams have had to get permission from FIFA to play in the Australian A League.

NewZealand’s population is slightly less than Scotland’s…..and they certainly don’t produce a lot of young players likely to make it in Europe.

Club wise, whereas Hibs can qualify for Europe…..even if Auckland win the A League by a mile, they cannot compete in the equivalent of European competitions down here eg The Asian Championship, because they come from a country (New Zealand) that isn’t a member of the Asian Confederation..but the Oceania confederation.

Good luck to Auckland, Foley seems happy enough to bankroll them just now, but as I say, I’m not sure where they fit in, in his grand plan.

Bit wide of the mark with some of this I would suggest.

Football is the team sport with highest participation rate in New Zealand, more than rugby. 170,000 registered players currently. For context, rugby in Scotland has less than 40,000 players.

Wellington Phoenix sold two players last year alone to EPL and Ligue 1. A third went to the MLS.

Previous sales have gone to Bayern Munich and to the Belgian top league (Cacace, who is now in Seria A).

There are a few other Kiwis dotted around Europe.

Take the point about the Asian Champions League, but even the Aussies seem to barely give a crap about it when they’re in it.

As for Auckland, they’re getting bigger attendances than virtually every other team in the league.

It’s gaining popularity in New Zealand and Foley can make money from young Aussies if he chooses too as well.

And, don’t forget, in the new qualifying format, New Zealand has arguably the easiest route to the World Cup in virtually the entire world!

[Steve-O]

They could run them in Edinburgh I suppose….

They actually have a ‘development pathway’ for Enzed youngsters documented that involves a lot of local clubs and is due to commence next year.

I hope in the years to come they manage to produce lots and lots of players from NZ who will take Europe by storm, but history suggests this might not be the case, and pretty sure if most on here were looking for a country to churn out players, first pick wouldn’t be New Zealand.

Foley seems to have some kind of affinity with Auckland, saying he ‘feels at home’ there….I can only assume he has a yacht, as Auckland really is the city of sails and some of the yachts you see are worth millions.

If I was a billionaire and looking for a club to acquire though it undoubtedly would have been Central Coast Mariners who, on the outskirts of Greater Sydney have their Academy highly rated by the Asian Confederation and sell half a team overseas just about every season…….despite that they operate on a shoestring and rumour has it (that hasn’t hit the media yet) that there is an ownership change about to happen.

It’s probably the lack of fans/growth that would put him off CCM. They’ve punched miles above their weight but in reality are a club about the size of Livingston or someone.

Even after all their success last year they’re getting less than 5000 at games, even less for the ACL!

[Paulie Walnuts]

I really hope the end goal, and it's done pretty quickly, is full ownership by the Black Knights. I know it'll need SFA approval first.

I do think they'll provide a tonne of help as minority owners, but think we'd really kick on if we were fully owned by them.

Likewise. I want them to own the club outright ASAP.

[Forza Fred]

It’s probably the lack of fans/growth that would put him off CCM. They’ve punched miles above their weight but in reality are a club about the size of Livingston or someone.

Even after all their success last year they’re getting less than 5000 at games, even less for the ACL!

Foley has a connection with NZ.

He owns wineries there and a chalet and apparently and a couple of times a year heads there?..or so the article I found says.

[Forza Fred]

[QUOTE=Steve-O;7858166]Bit wide of the mark with some of this I would suggest.

Football is the team sport with highest participation rate in New Zealand, more than rugby. 170,000 registered players currently. For context, rugby in Scotland has less than 40,000 players.



The participation rate is made up by the kids who play it……same in Oz where fitba has the biggest participation rate for the same reason but the sport is dwarfed by AFL and Rugby League in terms of media coverage, tv money, player earnings and generally everything.

I also thought it would be self evident that NZ fitba is not big by any means….if it was then surely they wouldn’t need their club sides to join a foreign country’s league, but play in their own.

[Since90+2]

[QUOTE=Steve-O;7858166]Bit wide of the mark with some of this I would suggest.

Football is the team sport with highest participation rate in New Zealand, more than rugby. 170,000 registered players currently. For context, rugby in Scotland has less than 40,000 players.



The participation rate is made up by the kids who play it……same in Oz where fitba has the biggest participation rate for the same reason but the sport is dwarfed by AFL and Rugby League in terms of media coverage, tv money, player earnings and generally everything.

I also thought it would be self evident that NZ fitba is not big by any means….if it was then surely they wouldn’t need their club sides to join a foreign country’s league, but play in their own.

Not really sure on that last point, Ice Hockey is massive in Canada and they play in the NHL.

It makes commercial sense for them to join with the Australian teams as it will mean more revenue.

[Since90+2]

They've certainly done very well with Bournemouth.

Arguably the best run club in the UK currently given their current standing in the EPL relative to the size of the club.

[Forza Fred]

[QUOTE=Forza Fred;7858230]

Not really sure on that last point, Ice Hockey is massive in Canada and they play in the NHL.

It makes commercial sense for them to join with the Australian teams as it will mean more revenue.

Not well up on ice hockey in Canada and U.S. I have to admit, but my point was that New Zealand football just doesn’t have the money/interest to support a full time professional league in their own country and hence they piggy back on the A League.

Auckland are certainly doing better than expected in their first season, and their attendances are very good too just now.

FWIW I’m not sure how sustainable the A League is in its current form either, but that’s another kettle of fish.

[Jock O]

I am giving everyone credit. Including Gray. Why deny the BK’s credit?


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Because I have no idea what I am crediting them for and no evidence to suggest they have been involved in any way on the playing side. other than some suppositions on here. Someone suggested they may have provided some internal consultancy to management team, great if so, not really convinced if I am honest, but obviously no way of knowing, and certainly Gray etc have made no mention of their involvement.


All that has been mentioned on this is we are talking with them and the relationship is good, standard messaging from group really with no real details of what that relationship currently is.

Their big attraction for me is the recruitment reach and skills, which we now look to be completely tied into, I think that is incredibly exciting. It will present them with new challenges and I suspect a bit of a learning curve but hopefully it will close one of the big gaps in the footballing department, so hopefully we will have tangible results to judge them against then, although as always January is never an easy month. So I think between now and summer we will start to see any benefits they bring.

[Jock O]

Some going for a team their size, you’d have to say.

I was astounded to see how small their ground was recently, I assume this is why their model will need to rely heavy on player trading to keep finances in order? I am a bit out of touch with the whole FPP stuff so not sure when it kicks in and what amounts matter., but my understanding is it manages losses, so as long as they are within that, external funding can be as much as they like? Budget wise they are not that small in relative to some other clubs are they though? I saw some figures recently that had either their turnover or players wages at over £50m but as usual cannot find out where I seen that, but assume that is nowhere near smallest in EPL?


I think if we were fully owned by them then we’d be levels above where we are now. Their spend on Bournemouth has been significant, as it has been with Auckland and Vegas Golden Knights. I think of they were to buy us completely we’d see massive improvements.

Are there available figures on what they spend on other clubs? I tried to google but could not find this. My concern always about full ownership is how we fit into the overall group programme and how the finances are then rolled up/down in the group, and how/if we would then operate as a separate football entity, but that's probably just my general financial conservatism and fear of venture capitalists kicking in, rather than any specific knowledge/worries. I appreciate within football there are different dynamics, or should be.

There was a great link to twitter on here on how their whole group was structured but again I have lost it, I did think this was worth a discussion on here, I contacted the guy who posted it on twitter but got no response to my questions but cannot find the original post or link. Anyone know where that was on here?

[Since90+2]

[QUOTE=Since90+2;7858234]

Not well up on ice hockey in Canada and U.S. I have to admit, but my point was that New Zealand football just doesn’t have the money/interest to support a full time professional league in their own country and hence they piggy back on the A League.

Auckland are certainly doing better than expected in their first season, and their attendances are very good too just now.

FWIW I’m not sure how sustainable the A League is in its current form either, but that’s another kettle of fish.

Is the participation of football less than countries like Latvia, Lithuania, Ireland ect who all have full time professional leagues of their own?

[matty_f]

I was astounded to see how small their ground was recently, I assume this is why their model will need to rely heavy on player trading to keep finances in order? I am a bit out of touch with the whole FPP stuff so not sure when it kicks in and what amounts matter., but my understanding is it manages losses, so as long as they are within that, external funding can be as much as they like? Budget wise they are not that small in relative to some other clubs are they though? I saw some figures recently that had either their turnover or players wages at over £50m but as usual cannot find out where I seen that, but assume that is nowhere near smallest in EPL?



Are there available figures on what they spend on other clubs? I tried to google but could not find this. My concern always about full ownership is how we fit into the overall group programme and how the finances are then rolled up/down in the group, and how/if we would then operate as a separate football entity, but that's probably just my general financial conservatism and fear of venture capitalists kicking in, rather than any specific knowledge/worries. I appreciate within football there are different dynamics, or should be.

There was a great link to twitter on here on how their whole group was structured but again I have lost it, I did think this was worth a discussion on here, I contacted the guy who posted it on twitter but got no response to my questions but cannot find the original post or link. Anyone know where that was on here?
I know the tweet you mean but I’m not sure who shared it.

As far as full ownership and the risks involved, I think it’s healthy to be sceptical and of course there’s a risk, I do feel that with BKFC there’s the means and the will for their clubs to do well individually as well as collectively. It doesn’t have to follow that Hibs would be secondary to another club in the group, but you would likely see spending relative to the league that the clubs are in.

Auckland will do well, they haven’t cut corners setting up and I think they’ll be very competitive in that league. Bournemouth are the same, they haven’t cut corners and have invested in the team but there are many teams in that league who can outspend them.

I would be very confident that we’d do well under their ownership, personally.

[Forza Fred]

[QUOTE=Forza Fred;7858265]

Is the participation of football less than countries like Latvia, Lithuania, Ireland ect who all have full time professional leagues of their own?

NFI

PS No idea why the quote says I originally posted the above….I didn’t

[Jock O]

I know the tweet you mean but I’m not sure who shared it.

As far as full ownership and the risks involved, I think it’s healthy to be sceptical and of course there’s a risk, I do feel that with BKFC there’s the means and the will for their clubs to do well individually as well as collectively. It doesn’t have to follow that Hibs would be secondary to another club in the group, but you would likely see spending relative to the league that the clubs are in.

Auckland will do well, they haven’t cut corners setting up and I think they’ll be very competitive in that league. Bournemouth are the same, they haven’t cut corners and have invested in the team but there are many teams in that league who can outspend them.

I would be very confident that we’d do well under their ownership, personally.

Just found some figures on EPL and Bournemouth, which show how well they have been run last couple of years, and how surprisingly small their player trading was, and you are right, their budget is till comparatively very small in EPL. I need to go and watch Fun Squad with my lad but will post them up later, and hopefully someone can id that tweet as I think it will be interesting to discuss.

[Gmack7]

I know the tweet you mean but I’m not sure who shared it.

As far as full ownership and the risks involved, I think it’s healthy to be sceptical and of course there’s a risk, I do feel that with BKFC there’s the means and the will for their clubs to do well individually as well as collectively. It doesn’t have to follow that Hibs would be secondary to another club in the group, but you would likely see spending relative to the league that the clubs are in.

Auckland will do well, they haven’t cut corners setting up and I think they’ll be very competitive in that league. Bournemouth are the same, they haven’t cut corners and have invested in the team but there are many teams in that league who can outspend them.

I would be very confident that we’d do well under their ownership, personally.
If they want top level European football Hibs are the best option

[Eyrie]

If they want top level European football Hibs are the best option

Ditto for the occasional cup win as trophies matter.

And all for a fraction of the cost of keeping Bournemouth in the top half of the English Premiership, although they will always be the BKG's main focus since they play in the most high profile league.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I was astounded to see how small their ground was recently, I assume this is why their model will need to rely heavy on player trading to keep finances in order? I am a bit out of touch with the whole FPP stuff so not sure when it kicks in and what amounts matter., but my understanding is it manages losses, so as long as they are within that, external funding can be as much as they like? Budget wise they are not that small in relative to some other clubs are they though? I saw some figures recently that had either their turnover or players wages at over £50m but as usual cannot find out where I seen that, but assume that is nowhere near smallest in EPL?

Not sure attendances are all that important down south. It obviously matters to a degree, but gate receipts make up a pretty small part of a clubs turnover.

Bournemouth for example had a turnover of £141m. With an 11.3k stadium, selling out every seat at say £40 average cost gives them £8.5m a season, and that cost will likely be miles above what the average seat actually sells for. If they were around 30k like lots of other teams, it would still only be about £16m more, which even you’re talking turnovers of £141m, isn’t huge.

[Ozyhibby]

[QUOTE=Forza Fred;7858230]

Not really sure on that last point, Ice Hockey is massive in Canada and they play in the NHL.

It makes commercial sense for them to join with the Australian teams as it will mean more revenue.

NHL started in Canada. Boston were first US team to join. Current HQ is New York though.


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[Steve-O]

[QUOTE=Steve-O;7858166]Bit wide of the mark with some of this I would suggest.

Football is the team sport with highest participation rate in New Zealand, more than rugby. 170,000 registered players currently. For context, rugby in Scotland has less than 40,000 players.



The participation rate is made up by the kids who play it……same in Oz where fitba has the biggest participation rate for the same reason but the sport is dwarfed by AFL and Rugby League in terms of media coverage, tv money, player earnings and generally everything.

I also thought it would be self evident that NZ fitba is not big by any means….if it was then surely they wouldn’t need their club sides to join a foreign country’s league, but play in their own.

It’s not about football per se, it’s about the population / geography of New Zealand.

The population is too small and spread out to support a professional football league.

Rugby League is popular here but the Warriors play in the Aussie NRL. NZ’s one pro basketball team play in the Aussie League.

Super Rugby is split across Aussie and Pacific teams as NZ can only support 5 teams. The domestic rugby union league attracts pretty low crowds and is in dire straits.

Yes numbers are made up by kids playing it, but those are the very kids who may go on to make it in the professional game. The more there are, the more likely more will make it.

It’s a relatively untapped and improving market in NZ. Probably where Australia once was not so long ago tbh.

[Bayern Bru]

The BK structure tweet https://x.com/gregorypcordell/status/1856451565210742820?s=46


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[scm70nyd1973]

[QUOTE=Since90+2;7858234]

Not well up on ice hockey in Canada and U.S. I have to admit, but my point was that New Zealand football just doesn’t have the money/interest to support a full time professional league in their own country and hence they piggy back on the A League.

Auckland are certainly doing better than expected in their first season, and their attendances are very good too just now.

FWIW I’m not sure how sustainable the A League is in its current form either, but that’s another kettle of fish.

I lived in Auckland from 2009 to 2021 and football popularity was definitely gaining a bit of traction.

The kids with a european background (excl farmers) were getting put off rugby coz they couldn’t compete with the Pacific Islanders/Maori kids - basically getting flattened.

Not sure what has gone on over the last 4 years though - hope football and rugby thrive over the next years 🤞

[I'm Spartacus]

Ditto for the occasional cup win as trophies matter.

And all for a fraction of the cost of keeping Bournemouth in the top half of the English Premiership, although they will always be the BKG's main focus since they play in the most high profile league.

'Occasional cup win' got me thinking, who's the most successful club since 2000 outside the Bigots?

The answer is the club with probably the lowest budget in the league - St Johnstone!

Aberdeen 1 x LC 0 x SC
Dundee 0 x LC 0 x SC
Dundee U 1 x LC 0 x SC
Hearts 0 x LC 2 x SC
Hibs 1 x LC 1 x SC
Inverness 1 x LC 0 x SC
Kilmarnock 1 x LC 0 x SC
Livingston 1 x LC 0 x SC
Motherwell 0 x LC 0 x SC
Ross C 1 x LC 0 x SC
St John 1 x LC 2 x SC
St Mirren 1 x LC 0 x SC

[cocteautwin]

'Occasional cup win' got me thinking, who's the most successful club since 2000 outside the Bigots?

The answer is the club with probably the lowest budget in the league - St Johnstone!

Aberdeen 1 x LC 0 x SC
Dundee 0 x LC 0 x SC
Dundee U 1 x LC 0 x SC
Hearts 0 x LC 2 x SC
Hibs 1 x LC 1 x SC
Inverness 1 x LC 0 x SC
Kilmarnock 1 x LC 0 x SC
Livingston 1 x LC 0 x SC
Motherwell 0 x LC 0 x SC
Ross C 1 x LC 0 x SC
St John 1 x LC 2 x SC
St Mirren 1 x LC 0 x SC

Hearts' trophy record there needs an asterisk:

* 2 trophies financed by stolen pension money (and 1998 as well which wasn't paid off until Vlad bought the club)

[Jock O]

The BK structure tweet https://x.com/gregorypcordell/status/1856451565210742820?s=46


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Thanks for this, had found the picture but not the original post as I queried the guy. Definitely interesting set up, will maybe try a thread on this once the Rocky debate has dried :greengrin

[Lago]

Not sure attendances are all that important down south. It obviously matters to a degree, but gate receipts make up a pretty small part of a clubs turnover.

Bournemouth for example had a turnover of £141m. With an 11.3k stadium, selling out every seat at say £40 average cost gives them £8.5m a season, and that cost will likely be miles above what the average seat actually sells for. If they were around 30k like lots of other teams, it would still only be about £16m more, which even you’re talking turnovers of £141m, isn’t huge.
New 18500 seater stadium due in 2027 according to Bournemouth Web site.

[A Hi-Bee]

New 18500 seater stadium due in 2027 according to Bournemouth Web site.

People are an imposition to the teams in Engerland it costs them more just to open the grounds, they make so much from t.v. cash they could all do without crowds, just be no atmosphere, a wee bit like a man city home game.

[Baader]

People are an imposition to the teams in Engerland it costs them more just to open the grounds, they make so much from t.v. cash they could all do without crowds, just be no atmosphere, a wee bit like a man city home game.

There are still league clubs in England dependent on fans attending...

[A Hi-Bee]

There are still league clubs in England dependent on fans attending...

No in the premier league, anyway if we end up half as good as Bournemouth that will do for me.

:thumbsup:

[Baader]

'Occasional cup win' got me thinking, who's the most successful club since 2000 outside the Bigots?

The answer is the club with probably the lowest budget in the league - St Johnstone!

Aberdeen 1 x LC 0 x SC
Dundee 0 x LC 0 x SC
Dundee U 1 x LC 0 x SC
Hearts 0 x LC 2 x SC
Hibs 1 x LC 1 x SC
Inverness 1 x LC 0 x SC
Kilmarnock 1 x LC 0 x SC
Livingston 1 x LC 0 x SC
Motherwell 0 x LC 0 x SC
Ross C 1 x LC 0 x SC
St John 1 x LC 2 x SC
St Mirren 1 x LC 0 x SC

Interesting stat. Only Dundee and Motherwell with no silverware over 25 years.

Hibs should have ensured Livingston, Ross Co and St Johnstone all had one less 😔

[A Hi-Bee]

Interesting stat. Only Dundee and Motherwell with no silverware over 25 years.

Hibs should have ensured Livingston, Ross Co and St Johnstone all had one less 😔

Please dont remind us.

[ChicoM1875]

'Occasional cup win' got me thinking, who's the most successful club since 2000 outside the Bigots?

The answer is the club with probably the lowest budget in the league - St Johnstone!

Aberdeen 1 x LC 0 x SC
Dundee 0 x LC 0 x SC
Dundee U 1 x LC 0 x SC
Hearts 0 x LC 2 x SC
Hibs 1 x LC 1 x SC
Inverness 1 x LC 0 x SC
Kilmarnock 1 x LC 0 x SC
Livingston 1 x LC 0 x SC
Motherwell 0 x LC 0 x SC
Ross C 1 x LC 0 x SC
St John 1 x LC 2 x SC
St Mirren 1 x LC 0 x SC

Wait... that can't be right? Don't Hertz have a recent League Cup triumph?

[pollution]

Please dont remind us.


That St Johnstone loss still really gets to me every time it is mentioned.

What should have been a run of the mill game turned into an embarrassment -- how pathetic we were that day !

[Lago]

That St Johnstone loss still really gets to me every time it is mentioned.

What should have been a run of the mill game turned into an embarrassment -- how pathetic we were that day !
Up there with defeat by Livingston at Hampden :confused:

[gorgie greens]

That St Johnstone loss still really gets to me every time it is mentioned.

What should have been a run of the mill game turned into an embarrassment -- how pathetic we were that day !

And for that reason I will never say Hibs were wrong to sack Jack Ross,just bad appointments since.

[Kato]

Up there with defeat by Livingston at Hampden :confused:That was far more understandable. They were spending way above their means and had a better, more experienced squad and manager.

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[Since452]

That St Johnstone loss still really gets to me every time it is mentioned.

What should have been a run of the mill game turned into an embarrassment -- how pathetic we were that day !

Easy to forget St Johnstone also beat "invincible" Rangers at Ibrox on the way to the final. Won the double. They weren't a bad side. Definitely no run of the mill game.

The Livingston one hurts/hurt far more for me.

[bingo70]

Notice they are saying on the Bournemouth Forum that Bill Foley is in town this week.

I wonder if he’ll make his way up to Edinburgh at any point.

[Not In The Know]

Notice they are saying on the Bournemouth Forum that Bill Foley is in town this week.

I wonder if he’ll make his way up to Edinburgh at any point.


It would be pretty whack if he didn't. Or maybe he will once he gets rid of "The Golden Quadrant"

[Lago]

That was far more understandable. They were spending way above their means and had a better, more experienced squad and manager.

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Wasn't understandable to my young daughter at the time, became a ex Hibs supporter from then on, did save me a bit of money over the years 😂

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

That was far more understandable. They were spending way above their means and had a better, more experienced squad and manager.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Yup, there's very little comparison to be had

[Hibees1973]

Every time this thread rises near to the top I have to take a second look that it's not The Baron Knights.

Given Garvan Stewart is now here and dubious Malky played a key role in recruitment last summer. What does Malky do now given his responsibilities have diminished.

Seems we now have Marshall learning off Malky, Malky learning off Ian Gordon and Ian Gordon learning off Kensell.

[andrew70]

Every time this thread rises near to the top I have to take a second look that it's not The Baron Knights.

Given Garvan Stewart is now here and dubious Malky played a key role in recruitment last summer. What does Malky do now given his responsibilities have diminished.

Seems we now have Marshall learning off Malky, Malky learning off Ian Gordon and Ian Gordon learning off Kensell.

MM’s role is and always has been far greater than recruitment.

He’s redefining the whole football structure and on recruitment he’s certainly steadied the ship there.

He’s not going to unite the fanbase but what he is doing is uniting the football department. He’s a smart operator and whilst I don’t think he’ll be here long term he’s making good effects in the short term.

[Lago]

Yup, there's very little comparison to be had
The most important one was both teams lost 😂

[Lago]

Interesting piece on Bournemouth FC new trading ground, BBC Sport website 👌

[Lendo]

Interesting piece on Bournemouth FC new trading ground, BBC Sport website 👌

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/videos/cgm9m1yzme9o

[TrinityHFC]

Interesting piece on Bournemouth FC new trading ground, BBC Sport website 👌

We haven’t signed anyone and they are opening a whole centre just for trading? :greengrin

[bingo70]

https://x.com/afcb_r0b/status/1877049020394172508?s=46&t=VghJuoU_bl8ISs-zf5CmHg

Black Knights raising £48m from investors.

Could some of it be coming our way?

[JohnM1875]

https://x.com/afcb_r0b/status/1877049020394172508?s=46&t=VghJuoU_bl8ISs-zf5CmHg

Black Knights raising £48m from investors.

Could some of it be coming our way?

Be class if some of it was to buy the Gordons out.

[matty_f]

Every time this thread rises near to the top I have to take a second look that it's not The Baron Knights.

Given Garvan Stewart is now here and dubious Malky played a key role in recruitment last summer. What does Malky do now given his responsibilities have diminished.

Seems we now have Marshall learning off Malky, Malky learning off Ian Gordon and Ian Gordon learning off Kensell.

Malky still has overall responsibility for transfers. It was never the case that he’s been the one trawling footage to identify targets. His role sits above that, making sure (along with Garvan, who reports to him) that we have the right people, tools, and processes to get recruitment right as often as we can.

That sits along with Malky’s other responsibilities in structuring and improving the football department.

[Docker]

The BK structure tweet https://x.com/gregorypcordell/status/1856451565210742820?s=46


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Posters on the transfer rumours thread often mention they would be happy with a player from the Black Knight Group.

What can that mean?

I assume it’s transfers or loans from clubs where BK Group have an interest and not that BK Group have some mechanism to “own” players with clubs with no ownership link.

If this is correct, unless Bournemouth have a player available to give to us that is what we are looking for, the main benefit must be access to their data/analysis……obviously linked to the Garvan Stewart appointment.

Unless there’s a Marcondes type profile buried in the Bournemouth squad at the moment, I doubt we will see any BK Group players this window.

Do I miss something?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Posters on the transfer rumours thread often mention they would be happy with a player from the Black Knight Group.

What can that mean?

I assume it’s transfers or loans from clubs where BK Group have an interest and not that BK Group have some mechanism to “own” players with clubs with no ownership link.

If this is correct, unless Bournemouth have a player available to give to us that is what we are looking for, the main benefit must be access to their data/analysis……obviously linked to the Garvan Stewart appointment.

Unless there’s a Marcondes type profile buried in the Bournemouth squad at the moment, I doubt we will see any BK Group players this window.

Do I miss something?

You’ve not really missed anything as such, but it’s worth remembering we could potentially get players from Lorient as well. We’d still be getting a player from the BK group.

[GreenCastle]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/videos/cgm9m1yzme9o

When the Black Knights deal was mentioned I was actually pretty excited about the idea they would help with Hibs building a full size indoor facility which would be great at HTC considering the often windy weather.

Obviously the product on the pitch is most important but hopefully we aren’t too far away from improving HTC.

The indoor barn has done its job but a full size indoor pitch would really improve things for the whole club.

[The Modfather]

Bournemouth 6th and a point off the top 4 if they see out their lead away to Chelsea. Lorient top of their league. Auckland 3rd, 1point off top of their league.

Give as much control of the football side to the Black Knights as they will take!

[Paulie Walnuts]

Bournemouth 6th and a point off the top 4 if they see out their lead away to Chelsea. Lorient top of their league. Auckland 3rd, 1point off top of their league.

Give as much control of the football side to the Black Knights as they will take!

There was someone on here recently claiming that they weren’t doing a good job at Bournemouth :faf:

[007]

Bournemouth ahead of Brighton at the moment. For all the fuss about Brighton's data anayltics, Bournemouth's is possibly on a par, potentially better.

I vaguely remember reading or hearing that Hearts pay Bloom's company when they use the data, there's a good chance McKinlay and co will make many bad decisions so I'm not convinced it will give them any advantage over us. I doubt we'll be paying to use Bournemouth's analytics and with Garv leading the recruitment it feels like we're in a good place to improve.

[greenlex]

Bournemouth 6th and a point off the top 4 if they see out their lead away to Chelsea. Lorient top of their league. Auckland 3rd, 1point off top of their league.

Give as much control of the football side to the Black Knights as they will take!
Not sure that’s the Black knights Auckland but the rest is pertinent.

[matty_f]

Not sure that’s the Black knights Auckland but the rest is pertinent.

What do you mean?

[greenlex]

What do you mean?

Is there not 2 different Auckland teams and black knights have the franchise for one but not playing yet? Or have they got going?

[matty_f]

Is there not 2 different Auckland teams and black knights have the franchise for one but not playing yet? Or have they got going?

They’re playing now, and doing well.

[ChilliEater]

Is there not 2 different Auckland teams and black knights have the franchise for one but not playing yet? Or have they got going?

There's only 1 Auckland team in the A-league, the BK one. The other NZ team are the Wellington Phoenix. Auckland started like a house on fire, but the wheels have come off a little in recent weeks.

[greenlex]

Cheers lads. I’ll shut up. Not up on my A league but better get my arse in gear as I’m heading over for the whole of February.

[bingo70]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_waBK6BDfpg

Really interesting interview with Bill Foley there. Quite a few Hibs mentions too.

We need to trust this guy imo.

[Donegal Hibby]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_waBK6BDfpg

Really interesting interview with Bill Foley there. Quite a few Hibs mentions too.

We need to trust this guy imo.

So ,it’s important teams are coached the same way , play the same way , same intensity etc etc …. Is this possible in leagues with different styles ? . Is this why he wasn’t happy with Mackay and Gray appointments too?. Sorry but I have my doubts about the guy .

[matty_f]

So ,it’s important teams are coached the same way , play the same way , same intensity etc etc …. Is this possible in leagues with different styles ? . Is this why he wasn’t happy with Mackay and Gray appointments too?. Sorry but I have my doubts about the guy .

I would love us to play like Bournemouth, they’re a great team to watch at the moment.

Of course it would work in this league if coached properly and we were recruiting players to play that way.

[bingo70]

I would love us to play like Bournemouth, they’re a great team to watch at the moment.

Of course it would work in this league if coached properly and we were recruiting players to play that way.

Interesting that Bournemouth have achieved success in the transfer market by using data and analytics as well.

There was me thinking Tony Bloom and Hearts had exclusivity on that.

[The Spaceman]

Interesting that Bournemouth have achieved success in the transfer market by using data and analytics as well.

There was me thinking Tony Bloom and Hearts had exclusivity on that.

This was the hilarity behind their excitement to basically paying a subscription to a player database site. They really believed there aren’t hundreds of other clubs using also very sophisticated databases to do the same thing and it would be Hearts and Brighton standing together on the global football summit 😂 looks like Bournemouth and BKG’s one is premium though.

[matty_f]

Interesting that Bournemouth have achieved success in the transfer market by using data and analytics as well.

There was me thinking Tony Bloom and Hearts had exclusivity on that.

I believe it’s is all available to us if we’re willing to use it.

[matty_f]

This was the hilarity behind their excitement to basically paying a subscription to a player database site. They really believed there aren’t hundreds of other clubs using also very sophisticated databases to do the same thing and it would be Hearts and Brighton standing together on the global football summit 😂 looks like Bournemouth and BKG’s one is premium though.

Exactly, the data available now is so vast and so readily available that the competitive advantage is in the quality of the analysts and the strength of the club in being able to match the quality analysis with the day to day running of the club.

[GreenCastle]

I would love us to play like Bournemouth, they’re a great team to watch at the moment.

Of course it would work in this league if coached properly and we were recruiting players to play that way.

So would I but the English league also have rules about the state of pitches.

Playing like Bournemouth at Ross County away and that awful pitch is impossible.

[Bobby's Cinema]

Exactly, the data available now is so vast and so readily available that the competitive advantage is in the quality of the analysts and the strength of the club in being able to match the quality analysis with the day to day running of the club.
Football has changed...I remember not so long ago being excited about the prospect of Maurice Malpas driving up and down the A9 to see players.

[18Craig75]

I would love us to play like Bournemouth, they’re a great team to watch at the moment.

Of course it would work in this league if coached properly and we were recruiting players to play that way.

Foley seems really amiable and happy to talk, have you offered an appearance on the pod? It seems we have only really had the odd snippet of info since Kensell gave us the “game changing” speech last year. It’s not really transpired has it.

It would be great to hear him talk about Hibs more. What his ultimate ambitions are and his take on how the partnership has gone so far. I don’t think it’s too much of a leap to assume that it’s not gone how any of the parties thought it might, to this point at least.

There was so much fan fair and excitement that came with it. It does feel like we’re the bridesmaids at the moment, at arms length from a potentially game changing opportunity.

Personally I’d love to BKFC take majority control here. I don’t mind The Gordon’s and appreciate they have a genuine connection to the club, but I feel that could be grown and maintained as minority owners. Let the people with a proven track record of success take the lead, and see where it takes us.

[Bridge hibs]

Football has changed...I remember not so long ago being excited about the prospect of Maurice Malpas driving up and down the A9 to see players.

That was Steve Marsella who travelled up and down the UK finding bargain players for Inverness.

[Donegal Hibby]

So would I but the English league also have rules about the state of pitches.

Playing like Bournemouth at Ross County away and that awful pitch is impossible.

I think we all would but different leagues have different styles of play , weather , pitches etc etc . At least now we know why he wasn’t happy with our manager appointment.

[matty_f]

Foley seems really amiable and happy to talk, have you offered an appearance on the pod? It seems we have only really had the odd snippet of info since Kensell gave us the “game changing” speech last year. It’s not really transpired has it.

It would be great to hear him talk about Hibs more. What his ultimate ambitions are and his take on how the partnership has gone so far. I don’t think it’s too much of a leap to assume that it’s not gone how any of the parties thought it might, to this point at least.

There was so much fan fair and excitement that came with it. It does feel like we’re the bridesmaids at the moment, at arms length from a potentially game changing opportunity.

Personally I’d love to BKFC take majority control here. I don’t mind The Gordon’s and appreciate they have a genuine connection to the club, but I feel that could be grown and maintained as minority owners. Let the people with a proven track record of success take the lead, and see where it takes us.

We have some dialogue with Bill , we’d love to get him on the podcast.

I agree about letting BKFC take over, I think there’s a risk there, obviously, that it doesn’t work but we know for a fact that the current set up doesn’t work and we’re limited with our own size and capabilities as to what we can achieve.

I like the idea of people with the resources, know how, and lack of limitations getting in about us and making us better.

[matty_f]

So would I but the English league also have rules about the state of pitches.

Playing like Bournemouth at Ross County away and that awful pitch is impossible.

On that one game, agreed, but teams have gone up there and played well before - Celtic do it, Rangers do it, we’ve done it before.

[bingo70]

On that one game, agreed, but teams have gone up there and played well before - Celtic do it, Rangers do it, we’ve done it before.

I don’t see why playing like Bournemouth do is impossible at Ross County away?

The way they play is about high energy pressing and they can be a lot more direct than other teams. If you were to say Hibs couldn’t play like Man City on that type of pitch I’d agree. Some games in Scotland on our pitches aren’t suited to slow, patient build up with high risks playing possession football, I don’t think that’s what Bournemouth do though?

[GreenCastle]

I don’t see why playing like Bournemouth do is impossible at Ross County away?

The way they play is about high energy pressing and they can be a lot more direct than other teams. If you were to say Hibs couldn’t play like Man City on that type of pitch I’d agree. Some games in Scotland on our pitches aren’t suited to slow, patient build up with high risks playing possession football, I don’t think that’s what Bournemouth do though?

Good players usually find a way.

If we had better players in every position it would probably mean every time we went to Ross County we would be winning rather than dropping points. Celtic are a prime example they rarely lose away to Ross County where many teams drop points.

[JohnM1875]

So ,it’s important teams are coached the same way , play the same way , same intensity etc etc …. Is this possible in leagues with different styles ? . Is this why he wasn’t happy with Mackay and Gray appointments too?. Sorry but I have my doubts about the guy .

Doubts based on what? Just asking. Cause he’s done nothing (at present) at any of teams he owns to show he shouldn’t be trusted.

[Donegal Hibby]

Doubts based on what? Just asking. Cause he’s done nothing (at present) at any of teams he owns to show he shouldn’t be trusted.

Doubts probably the wrong choice of words on my part as it’s more ‘ concerns ‘ . I suppose growing up as a Hibs fan I only remember us having owners where we have been the main focus/ priority and am concerned if Foley were ever to own Hibs where we would be in the food chain of numerous clubs he’s involved in .. if I was a Bournemouth fan I’d be quite delighted about all this as it’s all for the greater good of Bournemouth Fc though I’m not…

I didn’t like his reaction in Gray's , Mackay's appointment in “ they are not listening “ and thought to a degree it was someone throwing their toys out of the pram , glad we appointed Gray and thinks it’s sad a couple of hours before a game there’s a couple of posts in questioning will he fit in with what the BK’s want in all the clubs playing the same way etc …

My main doubts about Foley has been is involvement with Donald Trump in the donations he has made in supporting him who I think is a madman and anyone that supports him there has to be a character flaw with them IMO …

I didn’t want to see our club going down this route especially at the start when Foley referred to it as acquiring ‘ feeder clubs in a pyramid for Bournemouth which is something he changed his wording in later calling it a ‘ partnership’ .

I’m quite happy with the situation in having the BK’s onboard with the Gordon’s as owners but I would be worried if we ever became solely own by Foley / BK’s where their priority is Bournemouth and have numerous other clubs ..

I’ve answered you as honestly as I can about my concerns / doubts and hopefully my opinion doesn’t annoy folk to much and I don’t get a pile on of aggro for it either 👍

[Not In The Know]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_waBK6BDfpg

Really interesting interview with Bill Foley there. Quite a few Hibs mentions too.

We need to trust this guy imo.


interesting vid. He’d buy us if it could happen easily. I hope he does.

Watch both these interviews who would you rather was in charge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQYs4rPgL5Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_waBK6BDfpg

[JohnM1875]

interesting vid. He’d buy us if it could happen easily. I hope he does.

Watch both these interviews who would you rather was in charge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQYs4rPgL5Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_waBK6BDfpg

Get what you’re saying and I agree, but a wee bit unfair comparing the two.

[Big90inOz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_waBK6BDfpg

Really interesting interview with Bill Foley there. Quite a few Hibs mentions too.

We need to trust this guy imo.

I have the attention of a newt when it comes to listening or watching interviews however this had me watch from start to finish.
I think this Summer and going forward could be very interesting as Foley constantly talks about the pyramid with playing in the EPL with Bournemouth being the carrot.
The idea of all sides in the group playing the same way makes complete sense to me as any player moving up the pyramid should be able to slot straight into his new side.
From his comments regarding training facilities I think ours would have been a big drawcard.
Hibs would be the ideal stepping stone for those players who would struggle to get a work permit for the EPL so we " should" see players coming to us who Bournemouth believe are potentially EPL quality but don't quite meet the work permit criteria. It's far easier to transfer from Scotland to England.
Foley repeated several times that Bournemouth have to operate within their means so I would expect that is his thoughts for all the other clubs in the group.
I'm pretty sure BKG will own at least a majority share in Hibs as Foley clearly likes to be in control.

[bingo70]

I have the attention of a newt when it comes to listening or watching interviews however this had me watch from start to finish.
I think this Summer and going forward could be very interesting as Foley constantly talks about the pyramid with playing in the EPL with Bournemouth being the carrot.
The idea of all sides in the group playing the same way makes complete sense to me as any player moving up the pyramid should be able to slot straight into his new side.
From his comments regarding training facilities I think ours would have been a big drawcard.
Hibs would be the ideal stepping stone for those players who would struggle to get a work permit for the EPL so we " should" see players coming to us who Bournemouth believe are potentially EPL quality but don't quite meet the work permit criteria. It's far easier to transfer from Scotland to England.
Foley repeated several times that Bournemouth have to operate within their means so I would expect that is his thoughts for all the other clubs in the group.
I'm pretty sure BKG will own at least a majority share in Hibs as Foley clearly likes to be in control.

I thought the guy interviewing him while being a bit annoying was actually very good. Good questions, his pitch was varied to keep you interested and you could see Foley liked his sort of directness.

Something that raised my eyebrows a bit was the comment that he would expect a coach of one team doing well to then move up to the next team on the ladder, I can’t remember if he said Auckland to Hibs specifically but my take on it was if Steve Corica, (I think that’s his name), keeps doing well for Auckland, he will probably be our next manager whenever that may be, hopefully years away!

[TheSouthMoroccan]

We have some dialogue with Bill , we’d love to get him on the podcast.

I agree about letting BKFC take over, I think there’s a risk there, obviously, that it doesn’t work but we know for a fact that the current set up doesn’t work and we’re limited with our own size and capabilities as to what we can achieve.

I like the idea of people with the resources, know how, and lack of limitations getting in about us and making us better.

I think you have summed up perfectly how many of us feel. it's right to acknowledge that there is some risk, but the potential rewards far outweigh any risk. The current set up is not working, I hope the Black Knights get a majority and let's see where it takes us.

[Big90inOz]

I thought the guy interviewing him while being a bit annoying was actually very good. Good questions, his pitch was varied to keep you interested and you could see Foley liked his sort of directness.

Something that raised my eyebrows a bit was the comment that he would expect a coach of one team doing well to then move up to the next team on the ladder, I can’t remember if he said Auckland to Hibs specifically but my take on it was if Steve Corica, (I think that’s his name), keeps doing well for Auckland, he will probably be our next manager whenever that may be, hopefully years away!

I could be wrong but I thought the Auckland comment referred to players not coaches?

[04Sauzee]

I believe it’s is all available to us if we’re willing to use it.

Do you think we are more likely to be using it now we have Garvin in? I know he works for Hibs but will have had access to the analytical side of things at Bournemouth and we are under the same umbrella?

[Ozyhibby]

If the Black Knight’s want to bring players to us who have the potential to go to the EPL then they will have to be looking at a higher standard than they have so far.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[matty_f]

Do you think we are more likely to be using it now we have Garvin in? I know he works for Hibs but will have had access to the analytical side of things at Bournemouth and we are under the same umbrella?

I think so - I would be amazed if he came in with anything other than a remit to align our recruitment with what the group is doing.

[Ship of Hope]

I am cautiously optimistic about the black knights despite the slow start. I think we will undoubtedly have access to their analytics. I cannot see a reason why that would not happen.

My concerns are perhaps over the degree of control Foley may want to exert. I worry for SDG that even a 3rd /4th place finish may not satiate Foleys desire to get his own man in post. Personally I would find this a bit harsh and hard to accept if it came to transpire.

The second unknown that concerns me is the structure of the group. If it is Auckland to Hibs to Portugal to Orient to Bournemouth it has more akin to an elevator than a pyramid and we would be pretty close to the ground floor.

If the intention is to bring all clubs in the groups standards up to a level where they can potentially provide players ready for Bournemouth that would put me in a happier place. I suspect it will be somewhere in between with tiers and it depends which level we are viewed as being on - Aucklands or Orients.

[cubehindthegoal]

I have the attention of a newt when it comes to listening or watching interviews however this had me watch from start to finish.
I think this Summer and going forward could be very interesting as Foley constantly talks about the pyramid with playing in the EPL with Bournemouth being the carrot.
The idea of all sides in the group playing the same way makes complete sense to me as any player moving up the pyramid should be able to slot straight into his new side.
From his comments regarding training facilities I think ours would have been a big drawcard.
Hibs would be the ideal stepping stone for those players who would struggle to get a work permit for the EPL so we " should" see players coming to us who Bournemouth believe are potentially EPL quality but don't quite meet the work permit criteria. It's far easier to transfer from Scotland to England.
Foley repeated several times that Bournemouth have to operate within their means so I would expect that is his thoughts for all the other clubs in the group.
I'm pretty sure BKG will own at least a majority share in Hibs as Foley clearly likes to be in control.

I and not sure, and so hope someone asks him, what order he sees the teams in the pyramid being … Bournemouth are clearly the top, of course … but Lorient, Auckland, Portuguese team, and us … crucially, where does he see us fit in … I would assume above Auckland, but if we are not the second in line to Bournemouth … then where do we sit in the pyramid, and what does that mean for our own success as a separate entity in our league ?

Or perhaps he sees an equality between some or all of the teams below Bournemouth, and hence they all feed on an equal level … if so that’s not really a pyramid hierarchy system … feel I’ve been left with more questions than answers related to this … anyone any more knowledge or insight to it than what I have ?

[A Hi-Bee]

Roll on, things will only get better.
GGTTH

[The Modfather]

I am cautiously optimistic about the black knights despite the slow start. I think we will undoubtedly have access to their analytics. I cannot see a reason why that would not happen.

My concerns are perhaps over the degree of control Foley may want to exert. I worry for SDG that even a 3rd /4th place finish may not satiate Foleys desire to get his own man in post. Personally I would find this a bit harsh and hard to accept if it came to transpire.

The second unknown that concerns me is the structure of the group. If it is Auckland to Hibs to Portugal to Orient to Bournemouth it has more akin to an elevator than a pyramid and we would be pretty close to the ground floor.

If the intention is to bring all clubs in the groups standards up to a level where they can potentially provide players ready for Bournemouth that would put me in a happier place. I suspect it will be somewhere in between with tiers and it depends which level we are viewed as being on - Aucklands or Orients.

It would be ruthless to replace Gray if he was to achieve a 3rd or 4th. However if they were to look at it objectively and say finishing 3rd or 4th is good, however whoever does so this season has done so by being slightly less poor than the rest rather than them being a good team or building for sustained success. The quality and inconsistency of the league the last few years is as poor as I’ve ever known it. There’s probably no easier time for a well run club knowing what it’s doing to consistently secure 3rd fairly comfortably for the next few years.

[cubehindthegoal]

It would be ruthless to replace Gray if he was to achieve a 3rd or 4th. However if they were to look at it objectively and say finishing 3rd or 4th is good, however whoever does so this season has done so by being slightly less poor than the rest rather than them being a good team or building for sustained success. The quality and inconsistency of the league the last few years is as poor as I’ve ever known it. There’s probably no easier time for a well run club knowing what it’s doing to consistently secure 3rd fairly comfortably for the next few years.

I do think they will have lists of coaches they want to bring in to all the clubs … with these coaches knowing when they do that they are expected to fit into a style and method that is consistent across the group of clubs … but I also wonder, could Gray do well enough to break into their plans ? Would of course also depend on whether he would be happy to “fit in” to this. Of course, this would all also depend on how much control they exert at our club … it is only 25% as it stands, and Grays appointment clearly went against their thoughts.

[007]

I do think they will have lists of coaches they want to bring in to all the clubs … with these coaches knowing when they do that they are expected to fit into a style and method that is consistent across the group of clubs … but I also wonder, could Gray do well enough to break into their plans ? Would of course also depend on whether he would be happy to “fit in” to this. Of course, this would all also depend on how much control they exert at our club … it is only 25% as it stands, and Grays appointment clearly went against their thoughts.

It could be that they wanted a coach with a proven track record. The not listening comment was right after the defeat to Kelty and to me it was a bit like a reaction from a fan, venting after a terrible result, which in some ways is good as he obviously cares but in other ways you'd probably expect an owner to be a bit more tactful. Maybe now that Gray is beginning to prove himself then the BKG will be happy for him to carry on.

Personally I'm not in any rush to see any drastic changes in the set up of the club, I'm very happy with the trajectory we're currently on.

[cubehindthegoal]

It could be that they wanted a coach with a proven track record. The not listening comment was right after the defeat to Kelty and to me it was a bit like a reaction from a fan, venting after a terrible result, which in some ways is good as he obviously cares but in other ways you'd probably expect an owner to be a bit more tactful. Maybe now that Gray is beginning to prove himself then the BKG will be happy for him to carry on.

Personally I'm not in any rush to see any drastic changes in the set up of the club, I'm very happy with the trajectory we're currently on.

At the moment we are indeed heading upwards, and the results of the past couple months, and consequently the league table, reflects that. But if Foley has a vision of exactly how he sees it to be, and he gains more control over our club, as surely he must be wanting, to ensure he can maintain and build what he discusses … but … if he doesn’t get that control at Hibs, he might simply look elsewhere … it’s not the one club he has ambitions on as part of this (well, you could argue Bournemouth might be as they sit atop the “pyramid”) and if he can’t have control of the direction and system in any single club therein, I think that will be an obstacle for his aims.

[007]

At the moment we are indeed heading upwards, and the results of the past couple months, and consequently the league table, reflects that. But if Foley has a vision of exactly how he sees it to be, and he gains more control over our club, as surely he must be wanting, to ensure he can maintain and build what he discusses … but … if he doesn’t get that control at Hibs, he might simply look elsewhere … it’s not the one club he has ambitions on as part of this (well, you could argue Bournemouth might be as they sit atop the “pyramid”) and if he can’t have control of the direction and system in any single club therein, I think that will be an obstacle for his aims.

Fair enough. Will be interesting to see what happens.

[matty_f]

I wonder if there’s been any consideration to letting Gray build and coach the team to Bournemouth’s model. We set up similar (though not exactly the same) as them early in the season but it was evident we didn’t have the players suited to that system.

With the right recruitment and support, we could quite feasibly build a team that suits it without changing head coach.

[ancient hibee]

Have the SFA changed their view on multi club club ownership?

[matty_f]

Have the SFA changed their view on multi club club ownership?

I’m sure I saw something that said they’d consider up to 51% ownership on a case by case basis.

I do think it’s something that will be common soon - and that refusal to allow it might see some legal challenges against the SFA/SPFL, I’m not convinced they’ll have the appetite to risk a potentially expensive legal battle and so we’re more likely than not to see the stance continue to soften, imho.

[bingo70]

I’m sure I saw something that said they’d consider up to 51% ownership on a case by case basis.

I do think it’s something that will be common soon - and that refusal to allow it might see some legal challenges against the SFA/SPFL, I’m not convinced they’ll have the appetite to risk a potentially expensive legal battle and so we’re more likely than not to see the stance continue to soften, imho.

Looking at the money Celtic are making from the champions league, Rangers are going to need help soon so refusal to change this policy will potentially hinder them finding investors.

I’m not actually saying that with a tin foil hat on paranoid they’re only interested in the old firm, it’s just a fact that they’ll need to be aware from a commercial perspective one team is really running away from everyone else. They’ll need to be looking at ways of bridging that gap and allowing multi club models is just the way world football is going. No way Scottish football can be one of the few countries that resist that forever.

I suspect Bill Foley is aware of that too.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

What is the BK without Foley?
We all see what happens when an inspirational leader with a vision departs more often than not - what is there in the way of continuity and talent? Does he have a trusted number 2 or apprentice?

[04Sauzee]

Lorient are top of ligue 2
Auckland are top of the A league
Bournemouth are 7th in the Premiership

Clubs are doing well.

[bingo70]

Lorient are top of ligue 2
Auckland are top of the A league
Bournemouth are 7th in the Premiership

Clubs are doing well.

I wonder if Man City winning their legal battle with the FA could have implications for multi club structures around the world.

I only read the headlines but I think they can now basically filter money into clubs by offering ridiculous sponsorship deals that are way out of sync with going market rates?

Obviously there’s different legalities for every country but I’d imagine FA’s across the world may be less likely to take on a legal challenge from clubs?

Has anyone paid more attention to the case than I did?

[SteveHFC]

Lorient are top of ligue 2
Auckland are top of the A league
Bournemouth are 7th in the Premiership

Clubs are doing well.

Process working?

[04Sauzee]

I wonder if Man City winning their legal battle with the FA could have implications for multi club structures around the world.

I only read the headlines but I think they can now basically filter money into clubs by offering ridiculous sponsorship deals that are way out of sync with going market rates?

Obviously there’s different legalities for every country but I’d imagine FA’s across the world may be less likely to take on a legal challenge from clubs?

Has anyone paid more attention to the case than I did?


£7.2 million naming rights of the stadium and training centre certainly plugs a hole 😁

[Devonhibs]

I wonder if Man City winning their legal battle with the FA could have implications for multi club structures around the world.

I only read the headlines but I think they can now basically filter money into clubs by offering ridiculous sponsorship deals that are way out of sync with going market rates?

Obviously there’s different legalities for every country but I’d imagine FA’s across the world may be less likely to take on a legal challenge from clubs?

Has anyone paid more attention to the case than I did?
Has the case been finalise
d/announced?

[CropleyWasGod]

Has the case been finalise
d/announced?

The 115-charges case is still ongoing. This was a separate one.