Impact of Black Knight Investment

[Ringothedog]

Thought the fact that he owns Bournemouth would stop him also being able to own Hibs?

Correct

[cabbageandribs1875]

i always have a vision of Ian Gordon sitting in his office behind this :sofa:p.s. apologies to Ian Gordon if i'm wrong :whistle:

[Mikey_1875]

Some of us aren't particularly happy with either party.

Yep. Very conflicted as I am not really liking the cut of Foley’s jib but we know from recent history that Kensall and IG aren’t up to par either. It’s a shambles we are even in a debate of “taking sides” between new investor and old.

The only hope is that McKay and Gray can be a shining light from this sea of bull**** and churn out performances on the park. It looks increasingly likely that they may be hamstrung by politics at the top though.

[Hibeesforever]

Shame for Ian Gordon as the support now want him to front up and explain the situation but he looks unprepared to do so. Can only see the relationship between support and owner becoming unhealthy. Brought this all on himself, should have fronted interviews earlier to bring the fans along with him.

[JohnM1875]

Shame for Ian Gordon as the support now want him to front up and explain the situation but he looks unprepared to do so. Can only see the relationship between support and owner becoming unhealthy. Brought this all on himself, should have fronted interviews earlier to bring the fans along with him.

Doesn't even need to be Ian Gordon for me, but quite surprised there hasn't been some kind of mention of this by the club.

Even just some reassurance we’re still working with and in conversation with BK Group.

Though I suppose Mackay did that in his last interview. He was in frequent discussions with the new Bournemouth CEO. That could potentially be pretty frosty now knowing the BK group didn't want him in the job!

[B.H.F.C]

Shame for Ian Gordon as the support now want him to front up and explain the situation but he looks unprepared to do so. Can only see the relationship between support and owner becoming unhealthy. Brought this all on himself, should have fronted interviews earlier to bring the fans along with him.

Whether it’s him or Kensell or whoever, the club are going to need to address this.

One thing is for sure, it probably increases the chances of a bit transfer activity this week. Whenever there is a bit pressure on them, there is usually some kind of announcement to deflect it away.

[hibeerealist]

Here's why this situation is such a ****ing ****show, (IMHO). We know there was a long process and many, many discussions while this investment was agreed.Foley has been absolutely clear in what he wanted to get out of it, and the Gordons were clear that they wanted to retain control/ownership.That the investment went ahead with both parties happy with the agreement suggests that they both absolutely knew what they were getting into and were on the same page with it.Since then, we have had Black Knight making appointments which reference how they'll help Hibs while at the same time, people within Hibs making it clear that they're running the show.Now this from Foley confirms that there's a difference in how they see this working.We are FOUR months into it. Someone isn't acting in good faith from how those conversations in the run up to the investment being agreed went. That much is apparent. This could be Foley, it could be Gordon. Either way, one hand is not talking to the other (and when it is, the other hand is, presumably, holding up a third hand and saying "tell it to the hand because the other hand isn't listening").We all knew that Foley saw us as part of a multi-group model that relies in a large degree, to consistency in how the clubs are run across the group. That is not a surprise and so it should not be a ****ing surprise to Ian Gordon and Ben Kensell either.I don't think we're taking wild leaps of the imagination at this point, this seems like a fairly logical way to think about the situation.We then hire the Chairman's pal - to much ire and derision from a lot of the support - to a key role, and we find out now that this was against the advice of Black Knight FC.Of course, Gordon is entirely within his rights to ignore the advice, and who knows, he might even be right to - we'll find out in the fullness of time. As it happens, I have no major gripe with the work Malky has done so far.What is alarming though, is that decision is taken and in a moment separates us from the group. The multi-club model, Foley said, doesn't work if clubs do their own thing.Bravo, Ian, bravo.To then hire a manager that again is away from Foley's advice isn't a crime, I think we were by and large happy with SDG's appointment (I know I was), and Gordon might feel that he knows better than Foley in this case.But again, it's out of step with the group. We are an outlier because of the decision making of either our owner, our CEO, or both.This might yield short term results, but long term, where the real ****ing benefit of the multi club model and the investment lay, we're out the loop. We're now not a great fit for players that Black Knight want to sign into the group and develop.That's shooting ourselves in the foot to a ridiculous degree, and in football, shooting yourself in the foot is about as dumb an idea as you can have.It genuinely feels to me like Ian Gordon and Ben Kensell have sat in meetings with Foley, heard £6m mentioned, went into a wee day dream where everything Foley said is white noise in the background, and they've tuned in just in time to hear him say "you'll still have full control". And they'll be surprised now that Foley's a bit miffed about it all.There's no good look for anyone with this, if Gordon and Kensell are right to shun the advice then you have to wonder why the **** they brought Foley in in the first place other than to get a quick hit of £6m, because this is a sure-fire way to make sure you don't see that money coming in again.And if they're wrong to shun the advice, which I think they are because I have seen what their decision making has done to the club so far, then they need a massive metaphorical boot to the baws for it.Four months. Folk will blame Black Knights for it, but we've seen for a number of years now where the issues at the club stem from.Matty, you have hit the spot on this and your summary is one that I certainly agree with.There is defo one side NOT being entirely true to what they (all parties) appear to have agreed, sadly I fear that may be on our side and this could be very damaging. I do hope I am wrong

[Iain G]

So BK put forward people for Malky and Grays roles.

And the useless idiots that have employed all the last failures of managers, director of footballs and whatever else went ahead and done what they wanted anyway.

We are ****ed with these clowns in charge.

Wonder who they put forward? Then we can take a reasonable view as to who was right in this situation

[EVENTUALLY]

Swindled? WTAF
OK then. Duped.
Do you really believe that the Black knights had no idea what they were buying into, they would have done their due diligence and will have known exactly what was going to happen and how the relationship would progress going forward. And your wording of duped is no better than swindled. In both cases you are accusing our owners of an illegal actOK then. Misled. BTW I haven't accused anybody of anything. I was only wondering and things are clearly not happening as BK would have known.

[hibeerealist]

Are we really going to take notice of the wittering of an old Yank half way between Trump and Biden in age and whose French club have just been relegated? 😅 He might be a billionaire but clearly no expert in fitba in every country. I'll put my trust in men who know the Scottish game thanks.What's that well known saying, fool me once ..........?

[Hibees1973]

What are they not listening to though? We have no idea what exactly Foley thinks we haven't been listening on.Does it matter. The optics of this look disgraceful. In essence all the stuff Kensell spouted at the Black Knights launch counts for absolutely nothing now. None of us know the details of where this partnership with the Black Knights and Hibs is now. I've said for the last couple of years that Ian Grodon and Ben Kensell are not to be trusted and got pelters for it from some on here. I will maintain this until they are gone.

[hibeerealist]

Great summary...Someone has got to swallow a bit of humble pie here to move this whole **** show forward, and I don't at this stage see that happening. As I've said a few times, Gordon's radio silence on all matters at ER and his non-communication with the fans really grinds my gears. It smacks of ignorance and condescension and MacPherson's interview re how good a job Kensell is doing and the fans "don't understand" was a contiuum of that "let them eat cake" attitude. I've always found MacPherson to be a typical buttoned-up lawyer in the "good morning but don't quote me" type indicative of that profession, and his was a poor appointment too, IMO. Certainly not the dynamic sort we need at Hibernian football club in a senior role, that's for sure.Humility is in short supply on both sides, and no matter how much a high roller Foley is in the business, world, brinkmanship never really finds a consensus either. Heids need butted together here, and does anyone on the Board fancy playing the peacemaker? I doubt it, sadly.Yes and the losers - the club & their long suffering fans.

[jeffers]

Matty, you have hit the spot on this and your summary is one that I certainly agree with.There is defo one side NOT being entirely true to what they (all parties) appear to have agreed, sadly I fear that may be on our side and this could be very damaging. I do hope I am wrongYet it was made clear at the AGM that while we’d work with the BK Group we’d have the final say. On the face of it seems like Foley hasn’t understood what he signed up for….

[SetonClapper]

I don't think Foley's comments make any sense if he's referring to the SDG and MM appointments, as per the EEN story. There's no point in listening now in regard to those. Maybe he referring to squad depth. Perhaps he was just mouthing off and wasn't making a calculated statement, other than it being borne of frustration. It does leave a nasty taste in the mouth though. A lot of the optimism (in terms of recruitment) seems to have evaporated after one poor result. One bad result doesn't make them bad appointments, just as two 5 goal romps didn't mean they were good. It's just a very strange set of remarks he's made.

[ancient hibee]

It’s pretty clear in the article that Black Knight did not want Malky or David Graybappointed.

[OstKurve Hibs]

Yet it was made clear at the AGM that while we’d work with the BK Group we’d have the final say. On the face of it seems like Foley hasn’t understood what he signed up for….

Well of the final say isn't rhe correct choice then I can see why foley amd Co will be pissed off.
I have more faith in them than the 2 baw bags makin decisions the now.

[B.H.F.C]

Yet it was made clear at the AGM that while we’d work with the BK Group we’d have the final say. On the face of it seems like Foley hasn’t understood what he signed up for….

What has happened was as explained as far as I’m concerned.

I’m no fan of Gordon and Kensell but Foley would appear to be in the wrong, to me, with the way he’s went about this.

This is going to rumble on and on unless they kill it quickly. That goes for both parties.

[matty_f]

Wonder who they put forward? Then we can take a reasonable view as to who was right in this situation

I think it’s almost irrelevant, the decision was , I think, made in the best interests of Hibs - I don’t think it was made for any other reason, but in choosing that path at that moment, we’ve been clear that we don’t see ourselves as part of the group.

This will maybe be the right short term move for Hibs, Malky might be the right fit and we all want SDG to succeed, but the long term impact is that we’re out of step with the group and there’s much less motivation for Foley to send good players our way.

[hibeerealist]

It’s pretty clear in the article that Black Knight did not want Malky or David Graybappointed.There seems to be a number of people that share that view, time will tell.

[Ozyhibby]

It’s pretty clear in the article that Black Knight did not want Malky or David Graybappointed.

I wasn’t against either of them but if I’d known their appointment was going to cause a rift with the BK’s then I would have said not to proceed. Both are rookies in the role and have no track record that is worth falling out with a major backer.


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[B.H.F.C]

I think it’s almost irrelevant, the decision was , I think, made in the best interests of Hibs - I don’t think it was made for any other reason, but in choosing that path at that moment, we’ve been clear that we don’t see ourselves as part of the group.

This will maybe be the right short term move for Hibs, Malky might be the right fit and we all want SDG to succeed, but the long term impact is that we’re out of step with the group and there’s much less motivation for Foley to send good players our way.

I don’t think it shows we don’t see ourselves as part of the group. It just shows we didn’t agree with a particular recommendation. Do we need to follow every recommendation to be considered part of the group? If that’s the case we should have just handed over control.

[Gordy M]

Really disappointed with foley and his comments. Now im hoping to that he has been misquoted or stiched up by a journalist ..... if not, did he decide he didnt want SDG and MM after the 5-0 or 5-1....nope not a peep, horror result against Kelty and he is now shooting his mouth off? So we now start a season where our manager and DOF know they arent wanted by a large minority owner.....ffs, talk about unprofessional. Its ridiculous, so much for putting the club first.

[Alex Trager]

I don’t think it shows we don’t see ourselves as part of the group. It just shows we didn’t agree with a particular recommendation. Do we need to follow every recommendation to be considered part of the group? If that’s the case we should have just handed over control.

I agree with this.

I also think that straying from the way the group want to play is a good thing.

If, as is rumoured, the group wanted NM to remain and presumably keep playing the way he was, we were going nowhere.

Unless Foley was going to get us players well above the standard that we have ever had, then it was not happening.

So I am happy they’ve said ‘na, Scotland is different, and here’s why’.

[greenlex]

I don’t think it shows we don’t see ourselves as part of the group. It just shows we didn’t agree with a particular recommendation. Do we need to follow every recommendation to be considered part of the group? If that’s the case we should have just handed over control.This is kinda where I am. If finances dictate their appointment then so be it. Would the BK stump up salaries for their recommendations? I wouldn’t think so. For good or bad we are where we are. A win last Saturday and none if this would be out in the open. The biggest shambles is we were a couple of attempts off the woodwork away from none of this being a concern. The weird thing is he is claiming success at a club just relegated and putting the boot in publicly to a club that lost one game ( albeit it a ****show) since the changes in structure were made. Has Foley lost the plot?

[JohnM1875]

I agree with this.

I also think that straying from the way the group want to play is a good thing.

If, as is rumoured, the group wanted NM to remain and presumably keep playing the way he was, we were going nowhere.

Unless Foley was going to get us players well above the standard that we have ever had, then it was not happening.

So I am happy they’ve said ‘na, Scotland is different, and here’s why’.

You think that's the case though? And not just a case of IG and BK trying to show who's in charge?

Whys it taken then this long to identify whats needed to succeed in Scotland? Cause they've been piss-poor at executing that themselves so far!

[Donegal Hibby]

I wasn’t against either of them but if I’d known their appointment was going to cause a rift with the BK’s then I would have said not to proceed. Both are rookies in the role and have no track record that is worth falling out with a major backer.


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I don't know why there should be a rift about it , it's been said often enough that the Owners would have the final say on any decisions at the football club .

Surely Foley knew this ? . By coming out with this , like he has . I think he's handled with the whole situation very badly.

[jeffers]

I don’t think it shows we don’t see ourselves as part of the group. It just shows we didn’t agree with a particular recommendation. Do we need to follow every recommendation to be considered part of the group? If that’s the case we should have just handed over control.Agreed. I get the scepticism regarding IG and BK, it’s early days but on the face of it we’ve made two decent appointments in SDG and MM. There was concerns raised about the latter due to his past, but I’d say he’s being viewed in a positive manner by most on here. We don’t know who the BK group wanted, should we just have accepted their suggestions so we didn’t upset them even if we genuinely believed they weren’t the right fit ? No for me.

[SHODAN]

Oh for the days when we announced a desperately needed signing instead of more ****ing drama.

[Jim44]

What a state the club is in. We’re being run by an owner who hasn’t a clue and I has jumped into bed with a group he won’t listen to ( maybe they’re not worth listening to ….. who knows. ) I think our future is bleak.

[NC1875]

Agree with every word.

I’m massively surprised at the reaction to this and the fact that most folk seem to think that Gordon and Kensell, who are both a shambles, are the ones in the right here.

Exactly, absolute madness. They’re responsible for **** up after **** up and we still have people on here defending them .

[Up-the-slope]

I've not read all of this. Also I'm not saying there is not potentially fault on all sides. But for Foley to be holding up Lorient as those who are listening to us and hiring right people (assuming this is dig at Hibs Not hiring in his view right people) when they have just been relegated

[Squealing pig]

Buy the lot bill and call the shots

[Joe6-2]

Really disappointed with foley and his comments. Now im hoping to that he has been misquoted or stiched up by a journalist ..... if not, did he decide he didnt want SDG and MM after the 5-0 or 5-1....nope not a peep, horror result against Kelty and he is now shooting his mouth off? So we now start a season where our manager and DOF know they arent wanted by a large minority owner.....ffs, talk about unprofessional. Its ridiculous, so much for putting the club first.

Foley throwing the toys out of the pram really is very unprofessional, if votes on things are taken at board level ALL parties have to abide by them, whether they like it or not. Not very democratic to act this way because he didn’t get his own way.
Edit: I’m not defending that pair of bawbags

[matty_f]

I don’t think it shows we don’t see ourselves as part of the group. It just shows we didn’t agree with a particular recommendation. Do we need to follow every recommendation to be considered part of the group? If that’s the case we should have just handed over control.

It is, IMHO - and I don't think we need to follow every recommendation, but if you've been following Foley's words on the multi-group model, it was clear that before the investment was even agreed that the way he saw it working (and you have to think that he discussed this with Gordon) was that the clubs in the group operated in broadly the same way - similar set ups, playing similar football etc, so that players can be moved within the group easily and to everyone's benefit.

In agreeing to the investment, I would guess that everyone understood this arrangement. I consider myself to be a bit of an idiot, but I would say I had a good handle on what Foley's expectations were going into this deal.

If I did, then I would be amazed if Ian Gordon and Ben Kensell didn't.

Our first opportunity in the short four months since the investment was agreed to take a significant step to align what we do with the group, was with Malky Mackay's appointment, and the second was with SDG's.


What we have done, and this is the optics of it, is ignored the advice of the group that we willingly went into partnership with, to hire the Chairman's pal, and took ourselves out of alignment immediately with the group for the foreseeable future, unless Malky comes round to their way of thinking, of course.

[MrRobot]

It sounds like the cost of appointing Mackay, Gray and Marshall is being cut off from BK’s wealth of player pool and expertise.
They are going to have to be very special at their job to make up for that.


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Considering he just said maybe they’ll start listening, it sounds like that isn’t the case at all as he’s clearly offering advice still :dunno:

[Smartie]

Here's why this situation is such a ****ing ****show, (IMHO).

We know there was a long process and many, many discussions while this investment was agreed.

Foley has been absolutely clear in what he wanted to get out of it, and the Gordons were clear that they wanted to retain control/ownership.

That the investment went ahead with both parties happy with the agreement suggests that they both absolutely knew what they were getting into and were on the same page with it.

Since then, we have had Black Knight making appointments which reference how they'll help Hibs while at the same time, people within Hibs making it clear that they're running the show.

Now this from Foley confirms that there's a difference in how they see this working.

We are FOUR months into it. Someone isn't acting in good faith from how those conversations in the run up to the investment being agreed went. That much is apparent. This could be Foley, it could be Gordon. Either way, one hand is not talking to the other (and when it is, the other hand is, presumably, holding up a third hand and saying "tell it to the hand because the other hand isn't listening").

We all knew that Foley saw us as part of a multi-group model that relies in a large degree, to consistency in how the clubs are run across the group. That is not a surprise and so it should not be a ****ing surprise to Ian Gordon and Ben Kensell either.

I don't think we're taking wild leaps of the imagination at this point, this seems like a fairly logical way to think about the situation.

We then hire the Chairman's pal - to much ire and derision from a lot of the support - to a key role, and we find out now that this was against the advice of Black Knight FC.

Of course, Gordon is entirely within his rights to ignore the advice, and who knows, he might even be right to - we'll find out in the fullness of time. As it happens, I have no major gripe with the work Malky has done so far.

What is alarming though, is that decision is taken and in a moment separates us from the group. The multi-club model, Foley said, doesn't work if clubs do their own thing.

Bravo, Ian, bravo.

To then hire a manager that again is away from Foley's advice isn't a crime, I think we were by and large happy with SDG's appointment (I know I was), and Gordon might feel that he knows better than Foley in this case.

But again, it's out of step with the group. We are an outlier because of the decision making of either our owner, our CEO, or both.

This might yield short term results, but long term, where the real ****ing benefit of the multi club model and the investment lay, we're out the loop. We're now not a great fit for players that Black Knight want to sign into the group and develop.

That's shooting ourselves in the foot to a ridiculous degree, and in football, shooting yourself in the foot is about as dumb an idea as you can have.

It genuinely feels to me like Ian Gordon and Ben Kensell have sat in meetings with Foley, heard £6m mentioned, went into a wee day dream where everything Foley said is white noise in the background, and they've tuned in just in time to hear him say "you'll still have full control". And they'll be surprised now that Foley's a bit miffed about it all.

There's no good look for anyone with this, if Gordon and Kensell are right to shun the advice then you have to wonder why the **** they brought Foley in in the first place other than to get a quick hit of £6m, because this is a sure-fire way to make sure you don't see that money coming in again.

And if they're wrong to shun the advice, which I think they are because I have seen what their decision making has done to the club so far, then they need a massive metaphorical boot to the baws for it.

Four months. Folk will blame Black Knights for it, but we've seen for a number of years now where the issues at the club stem from.

Ian Gordon, Ben and co do not have any credit in the bank to deserve any sort of benefit of the doubt here but is the devil not in the detail regarding what went on?

Imagine, for example, the BK suggestion was to retain Monty, play that wafty get the ball out wide stuff we played last season, play someone with Dylan Levitt's passing ability deep in midfield and stick 3 or 4 Bournemouth teenagers in the team. Are they not entitled to stand up to that a bit? It's unfortunate that this has come out now because whilst the result on Saturday was an abomination, the general direction of travel has felt in general to be better again of late.

I'm not really that impressed that Foley has seen fit to go public in this way, I don't think it reflects all that well on him. It's not the way things should be done imo. I'd have liked a full and robust exchange when decisions were being made then a united front whatever happened. Minority shareholders might need to expect not to get their own way every time - sometimes with good reason, sometimes not.

[K-Zazu]

Buy the lot bill and call the shots

The SFA would never let that happen.

[JohnM1875]

It is, IMHO - and I don't think we need to follow every recommendation, but if you've been following Foley's words on the multi-group model, it was clear that before the investment was even agreed that the way he saw it working (and you have to think that he discussed this with Gordon) was that the clubs in the group operated in broadly the same way - similar set ups, playing similar football etc, so that players can be moved within the group easily and to everyone's benefit.

In agreeing to the investment, I would guess that everyone understood this arrangement. I consider myself to be a bit of an idiot, but I would say I had a good handle on what Foley's expectations were going into this deal.

If I did, then I would be amazed if Ian Gordon and Ben Kensell didn't.

Our first opportunity in the short four months since the investment was agreed to take a significant step to align what we do with the group, was with Malky Mackay's appointment, and the second was with SDG's.


What we have done, and this is the optics of it, is ignored the advice of the group that we willingly went into partnership with, to hire the Chairman's pal, and took ourselves out of alignment immediately with the group for the foreseeable future, unless Malky comes round to their way of thinking, of course.

Yup.

All after them giving us a young promising defender on loan, a player we’d never be able to afford on loan and selling us Moriah-Welsh to try and improve the second half of our season.

[Winston Ingram]

I dunno what everyone is getting there knickers in a knot about.

We’ve been rotten for at least 5 yr & these appointments in the summer were vital to turning that around. This board thought appointing 3 rookies with zero experience to the key roles at the club would do that.

Whether they turn out to be great at their job or not, in no environment anywhere does appointing 3 boys with **** all experience to do those jobs make any sense whatsoever.

Personally, I’m delighted that BK and and IG are getting called to account.

[matty_f]

I've not read all of this. Also I'm not saying there is not potentially fault on all sides. But for Foley to be holding up Lorient as those who are listening to us and hiring right people (assuming this is dig at Hibs Not hiring in his view right people) when they have just been relegated

I think he's referring to them hiring the right people to get them out of the mess they'd got themselves into, rather than hiring them to take them down.

[Gordy M]

It is, IMHO - and I don't think we need to follow every recommendation, but if you've been following Foley's words on the multi-group model, it was clear that before the investment was even agreed that the way he saw it working (and you have to think that he discussed this with Gordon) was that the clubs in the group operated in broadly the same way - similar set ups, playing similar football etc, so that players can be moved within the group easily and to everyone's benefit. In agreeing to the investment, I would guess that everyone understood this arrangement. I consider myself to be a bit of an idiot, but I would say I had a good handle on what Foley's expectations were going into this deal. If I did, then I would be amazed if Ian Gordon and Ben Kensell didn't.Our first opportunity in the short four months since the investment was agreed to take a significant step to align what we do with the group, was with Malky Mackay's appointment, and the second was with SDG's.What we have done, and this is the optics of it, is ignored the advice of the group that we willingly went into partnership with, to hire the Chairman's pal, and took ourselves out of alignment immediately with the group for the foreseeable future, unless Malky comes round to their way of thinking, of course.So why didnt he express his concerns when this happened or after QP or Elgin game? No, waited until first bad result......very poor in my opinion.

[jeffers]

It is, IMHO - and I don't think we need to follow every recommendation, but if you've been following Foley's words on the multi-group model, it was clear that before the investment was even agreed that the way he saw it working (and you have to think that he discussed this with Gordon) was that the clubs in the group operated in broadly the same way - similar set ups, playing similar football etc, so that players can be moved within the group easily and to everyone's benefit. In agreeing to the investment, I would guess that everyone understood this arrangement. I consider myself to be a bit of an idiot, but I would say I had a good handle on what Foley's expectations were going into this deal. If I did, then I would be amazed if Ian Gordon and Ben Kensell didn't.Our first opportunity in the short four months since the investment was agreed to take a significant step to align what we do with the group, was with Malky Mackay's appointment, and the second was with SDG's.What we have done, and this is the optics of it, is ignored the advice of the group that we willingly went into partnership with, to hire the Chairman's pal, and took ourselves out of alignment immediately with the group for the foreseeable future, unless Malky comes round to their way of thinking, of course.So in essence you are advocating we accepted their first recommendations even if we thought they were the wrong ones just so we don’t upset the apple cart ?

[Smartie]

It’s pretty clear in the article that Black Knight did not want Malky or David Graybappointed.

My slightly nuanced variation on what you say is that certain Hibs insiders who are seeking to control the narrative via the local press are keen for that to be what is perceived to have been the issue.

[matty_f]

So why didnt he express his concerns when this happened or after QP or Elgin game? No, waited until first bad result......very poor in my opinion.

He didn't get asked about it after those games. I think it's poor that he expressed them at all, to be honest with you. These things should probably be kept in house, IMHO.

[matty_f]

My slightly nuanced variation on what you say is that certain Hibs insiders who are seeking to control the narrative via the local press are keen for that to be what is perceived to have been the issue.

:agree:

[Lago]

Exactly, absolute madness. They’re responsible for **** up after **** up and we still have people on here defending them .Agree for weeks now fans have been asking why there are no players moving from Bournemouth to Hibs, suggesting Hibs aren't happy with the quality, maybe Bournemouth are the ones refusing to loan players based on their concerns about Hibs. Saturdays result would merely enforce that view.

[matty_f]

So in essence you are advocating we accepted their first recommendations even if we thought they were the wrong ones just so we don’t upset the apple cart ?

Not necessarily, there's a middle ground in these things. Clearly, given Foley's comments, the decisions have left at least one party dissatisfied.

Loads of us will have been in discussions in business where there's a decision that's unpalatable for whatever reason, but when you know that's the case you try to find a way to make that work.

What I would say though, is that in this specific case, if the reports are accurate, then I would point to Kensell's and Gordon's record at making key appointments, and hope that they took a moment to reflect on their record, and maybe consider that it was time to try what someone else was suggesting.

[B.H.F.C]

It is, IMHO - and I don't think we need to follow every recommendation, but if you've been following Foley's words on the multi-group model, it was clear that before the investment was even agreed that the way he saw it working (and you have to think that he discussed this with Gordon) was that the clubs in the group operated in broadly the same way - similar set ups, playing similar football etc, so that players can be moved within the group easily and to everyone's benefit.

In agreeing to the investment, I would guess that everyone understood this arrangement. I consider myself to be a bit of an idiot, but I would say I had a good handle on what Foley's expectations were going into this deal.

If I did, then I would be amazed if Ian Gordon and Ben Kensell didn't.

Our first opportunity in the short four months since the investment was agreed to take a significant step to align what we do with the group, was with Malky Mackay's appointment, and the second was with SDG's.


What we have done, and this is the optics of it, is ignored the advice of the group that we willingly went into partnership with, to hire the Chairman's pal, and took ourselves out of alignment immediately with the group for the foreseeable future, unless Malky comes round to their way of thinking, of course.

But why would we agree if their recommendation looked bad? The caveat here is that our board have made some terrible decisions. Equally, it’s rumoured the Black Knights wanted to retain Montgomery.

The Black Knights also willingly entered this partnership knowing they wouldn’t have the final say. I just think it’s wrong for Foley to come out with what he has today, it doesn’t do anyone any favours and it just looks like him chucking his toys out the pram when not getting his way IMO (something he’s probably not used to).

[Gordy M]

He didn't get asked about it after those games. I think it's poor that he expressed them at all, to be honest with you. These things should probably be kept in house, IMHO.No probably about it imo. Should never be in the press. From the outside it looks like he didnt get his way, waited on the first bad result.....and went to the press andd said told you, never wanted the manager or DOF in the first place. As i said ridiculous going in to the new season with the manager not being backed......

[B.H.F.C]

Agree for weeks now fans have been asking why there are no players moving from Bournemouth to Hibs, suggesting Hibs aren't happy with the quality, maybe Bournemouth are the ones refusing to loan players based on their concerns about Hibs. Saturdays result would merely enforce that view.

Maybe they haven’t offered us a player we feel is capable of playing in the first team. In fact, given McKay’s comments the other day I’d say that seems fairly likely.

[matty_f]

But why would we agree if their recommendation looked bad? The caveat here is that our board have made some terrible decisions. Equally, it’s rumoured the Black Knights wanted to retain Montgomery.

The Black Knights also willingly entered this partnership knowing they wouldn’t have the final say. I just think it’s wrong for Foley to come out with what he has today, it doesn’t do anyone any favours and it just looks like him chucking his toys out the pram when not getting his way IMO (something he’s probably not used to).

I agree it's a terrible look - look at the carnage it's caused.

Would ask you to consider why Black Knight would want to put a really bad appointment in place here, though? I go back to the optics of it, we KB their guy in favour of the Chairman's pal...

And bear in mind how we got to the position that we needed Malky in in the first place, because Kensell and Gordon's guy who was brought in as DoF didn't make the blindest bit of difference to support their last two failed managers.

[matty_f]

No probably about it imo. Should never be in the press. From the outside it looks like he didnt get his way, waited on the first bad result.....and went to the press andd said told you, never wanted the manager or DOF in the first place. As i said ridiculous going in to the new season with the manager not being backed......

He never went to the press, they came to him - there's much wider interviews with him largely about Bournemouth and their ambitions. The interviewer asked him about Hibs' defeat to Kelty Hearts.

[The Modfather]

So in essence you are advocating we accepted their first recommendations even if we thought they were the wrong ones just so we don’t upset the apple cart ?

To flip that are we also saying that the people making the terrible football decisions over the last 5 years are better placed to know how to fix the mess they have created than those running Bournmouth and the vegas team?

I can only imagine Foley’s reaction when the decision makers that have got us in this mess said the solutions were already at the club, new to their roles, or friends with the chairman, and crucially all free. “Wait, what?”.

[Up-the-slope]

I think he's referring to them hiring the right people to get them out of the mess they'd got themselves into, rather than hiring them to take them down.Matty - but if we accept the way you are suggesting then there is nothing as yet to prove these appointment at Lorient will get them out the mess... only that Foley agrees with them / thinks they will... time will tell but currently he can't say hes right

[Paulie Walnuts]

I don't know why there should be a rift about it , it's been said often enough that the Owners would have the final say on any decisions at the football club .

Surely Foley knew this ? . By coming out with this , like he has . I think he's handled with the whole situation very badly.

Foley and BKFC are owners of the football club.

The fact folk keep repeating that they aren’t is quite incredible.

[Gordy M]

He never went to the press, they came to him - there's much wider interviews with him largely about Bournemouth and their ambitions. The interviewer asked him about Hibs' defeat to Kelty Hearts.Im sorry thats semantics, he could have easily said bad result, hope we have a good season. He knew exactly what he was doing.

[B.H.F.C]

I agree it's a terrible look - look at the carnage it's caused.

Would ask you to consider why Black Knight would want to put a really bad appointment in place here, though? I go back to the optics of it, we KB their guy in favour of the Chairman's pal...

And bear in mind how we got to the position that we needed Malky in in the first place, because Kensell and Gordon's guy who was brought in as DoF didn't make the blindest bit of difference to support their last two failed managers.

They obviously wouldn’t want to put a bad appointment in place. Nobody wants to do that but it doesn’t mean their recommendation was actually any good though.

Wherever the blame lies (probably a bit on both sides) it’s just absolutely ridiculous that we’re having this discussion after a few months when it was meant to be a really exciting time for us.

[Paulie Walnuts]

To flip that are we also saying that the people making the terrible football decisions over the last 5 years are better placed to know how to fix the mess they have created than those running Bournmouth and the vegas team?

I can only imagine Foley’s reaction when the decision makers that have got us in this mess said the solutions were already at the club, new to their roles, or friends with the chairman, and crucially all free. “Wait, what?”.

:agree:

The evidence as to who is in the wrong here is absolutely stacked against Gordon and Kensell imo. BKFC would have no loyalty or relationship with SDG, Mackay or Marshall for example, so I’d be astonished if they seen them as the best option. The fact all 3 of these guys had links to the club, either by conveniently already being here or being mates with the chairman is the biggest of coincidences and incredibly convenient. If I was BKFC I’d also be looking at this and saying ‘hang on, I own a significant chunk of this club and I’m in no way happy that folk who have repeatedly shown they don’t know what they’re doing are appointing their pals to all the major roles.’ And then on top of that, the evidence can be corroborated by the fact that on the football side, they have shown themselves to be absolutely incompetent numerous times previously.

[matty_f]

Matty - but if we accept the way you are suggesting then there is nothing as yet to prove these appointment at Lorient will get them out the mess... only that Foley agrees with them / thinks they will... time will tell but currently he can't say hes right

Correct. He’s just got confidence in his strategy, I guess.

[matty_f]

They obviously wouldn’t want to put a bad appointment in place. Nobody wants to do that but it doesn’t mean their recommendation was actually any good though.

Wherever the blame lies (probably a bit on both sides) it’s just absolutely ridiculous that we’re having this discussion after a few months when it was meant to be a really exciting time for us.
I couldn’t agree more.

[Andymac85]

It’s pretty clear in the article that Black Knight did not want Malky or David Graybappointed.

Neither did a lot of the fans.

[ChuckNor]

Here's why this situation is such a ****ing ****show, (IMHO).

We know there was a long process and many, many discussions while this investment was agreed.

Foley has been absolutely clear in what he wanted to get out of it, and the Gordons were clear that they wanted to retain control/ownership.

That the investment went ahead with both parties happy with the agreement suggests that they both absolutely knew what they were getting into and were on the same page with it.

Since then, we have had Black Knight making appointments which reference how they'll help Hibs while at the same time, people within Hibs making it clear that they're running the show.

Now this from Foley confirms that there's a difference in how they see this working.

We are FOUR months into it. Someone isn't acting in good faith from how those conversations in the run up to the investment being agreed went. That much is apparent. This could be Foley, it could be Gordon. Either way, one hand is not talking to the other (and when it is, the other hand is, presumably, holding up a third hand and saying "tell it to the hand because the other hand isn't listening").

We all knew that Foley saw us as part of a multi-group model that relies in a large degree, to consistency in how the clubs are run across the group. That is not a surprise and so it should not be a ****ing surprise to Ian Gordon and Ben Kensell either.

I don't think we're taking wild leaps of the imagination at this point, this seems like a fairly logical way to think about the situation.

We then hire the Chairman's pal - to much ire and derision from a lot of the support - to a key role, and we find out now that this was against the advice of Black Knight FC.

Of course, Gordon is entirely within his rights to ignore the advice, and who knows, he might even be right to - we'll find out in the fullness of time. As it happens, I have no major gripe with the work Malky has done so far.

What is alarming though, is that decision is taken and in a moment separates us from the group. The multi-club model, Foley said, doesn't work if clubs do their own thing.

Bravo, Ian, bravo.

To then hire a manager that again is away from Foley's advice isn't a crime, I think we were by and large happy with SDG's appointment (I know I was), and Gordon might feel that he knows better than Foley in this case.

But again, it's out of step with the group. We are an outlier because of the decision making of either our owner, our CEO, or both.

This might yield short term results, but long term, where the real ****ing benefit of the multi club model and the investment lay, we're out the loop. We're now not a great fit for players that Black Knight want to sign into the group and develop.

That's shooting ourselves in the foot to a ridiculous degree, and in football, shooting yourself in the foot is about as dumb an idea as you can have.

It genuinely feels to me like Ian Gordon and Ben Kensell have sat in meetings with Foley, heard £6m mentioned, went into a wee day dream where everything Foley said is white noise in the background, and they've tuned in just in time to hear him say "you'll still have full control". And they'll be surprised now that Foley's a bit miffed about it all.

There's no good look for anyone with this, if Gordon and Kensell are right to shun the advice then you have to wonder why the **** they brought Foley in in the first place other than to get a quick hit of £6m, because this is a sure-fire way to make sure you don't see that money coming in again.

And if they're wrong to shun the advice, which I think they are because I have seen what their decision making has done to the club so far, then they need a massive metaphorical boot to the baws for it.

Four months. Folk will blame Black Knights for it, but we've seen for a number of years now where the issues at the club stem from.

This is absolutely spot on. Excellent summary of a shambles. Fair play.

PS to the folk who’ve quoted me about Foley not being able to buy the club - I know. My point was that he at no point could dictate what we do. This whole thing is a shambles. No one comes out of this well at all.

[WestStandMoaner]

He never went to the press, they came to him - there's much wider interviews with him largely about Bournemouth and their ambitions. The interviewer asked him about Hibs' defeat to Kelty Hearts.

The problem now it’s a very public spat and the pressure has just been increased on Gray and Mackay so they have to get it right. Was never a fan of this investment but what the hell are our owners and board up to did they carry out the proper due diligence on Foley. This will end badly and Kensal needs to be called out with a response

[Eyrie]

I think it's poor timing by Foley coming on the heels of a bad loss when we've only played three games and the other two were convincing wins.

Had he waited until January when we were struggling in the lower half of the table then his comments would carry more weight. All he needed to say at this point was that it's early days with Hibs and the BKs are offering us advice without proclaiming that it's being ignored.

I'm fine with the appointments of Mackay and Gray.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Im sorry thats semantics, he could have easily said bad result, hope we have a good season. He knew exactly what he was doing.

At least somebody that owns some of the club knows what they’re doing then.

[jeffers]

Not necessarily, there's a middle ground in these things. Clearly, given Foley's comments, the decisions have left at least one party dissatisfied. Loads of us will have been in discussions in business where there's a decision that's unpalatable for whatever reason, but when you know that's the case you try to find a way to make that work. What I would say though, is that in this specific case, if the reports are accurate, then I would point to Kensell's and Gordon's record at making key appointments, and hope that they took a moment to reflect on their record, and maybe consider that it was time to try what someone else was suggesting.Foley is coming across as a bit of a spoilt child, or maybe more accurate a billionaire not used to hearing the word no. Until we find out who his suggestions were, we may never do, we won’t know if they made the right decision or not to ignore the advice. I’d hope they did exactly as you suggested and took time to reflect that their decision was the right one and it wasn’t a case of giving Foley the middle finger. We don’t know how any conversation went though. Maybe they did listen to his suggestions and gave him their reasons for going with their decision.

[Lago]

Maybe they haven’t offered us a player we feel is capable of playing in the first team. In fact, given McKay’s comments the other day I’d say that seems fairly likely.Possibly or they're not prepared to waste a player of some quality at Hibs when the club is a bit of a mess.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Foley is coming across as a bit of a spoilt child, or maybe more accurate a billionaire not used to hearing the word no. Until we find out who his suggestions were, we may never do, we won’t know if they made the right decision or not to ignore the advice. I’d hope they did exactly as you suggested and took time to reflect that their decision was the right one and it wasn’t a case of giving Foley the middle finger. We don’t know how any conversation went though. Maybe they did listen to his suggestions and gave him their reasons for going with their decision.

Or is he coming across as someone who’s been succesful more often than he’s not been in the sports world and is incredibly peeved with the glaring ineptitude of Kensell and Gordon and the fact that they won’t listen to him despite the fact they clearly don’t know what they’re doing?

He’s a significant shareholder in the club, has invested a load of money and is being ignored by two completely incompetent clowns. He’s every right to be pissed off.

[Gordy M]

At least somebody that owns some of the club knows what they’re doing then.Does he, hows Lorient getting on? What if he wanted NM to stay? Still know what he is doing....bearing in mind your opinion on NM?At the end of the day, i dont know who will be right or wrong, but no way should it be in the press, starting the season with the new manager knowing he isnt being backed by one of the owners?

[ChuckNor]

So in essence you are advocating we accepted their first recommendations even if we thought they were the wrong ones just so we don’t upset the apple cart ?

I don’t think Matty’s saying that. There is a middle ground where we aren’t dictated to but also that we respect the system we had allegedly bought into. The way this comes across at the moment is Kensell and Gordon heard “£6m investment” and nothing else when discussing this with BK FC. It’s a farce.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Does he, hows Lorient getting on? What if he wanted NM to stay? Still know what he is doing....bearing in mind your opinion on NM?At the end of the day, i dont know who will be right or wrong, but no way should it be in the press, starting the season with the new manager knowing he isnt being backed by one of the owners?

How’s Bournemouth getting on? How are his ice hockey team getting on? Who says he wanted NM to stay?

He’s shown an infinitely higher level of competence in sports than Gordon and Kensell who have shown themselves on the playing side of sports, which is what this falls into, as wildly incompetent, so I have absolutely no issue saying he knows more about what he’s doing than those two do.

[Lago]

:agree:The evidence as to who is in the wrong here is absolutely stacked against Gordon and Kensell imo. BKFC would have no loyalty or relationship with SDG, Mackay or Marshall for example, so I’d be astonished if they seen them as the best option. The fact all 3 of these guys had links to the club, either by conveniently already being here or being mates with the chairman is the biggest of coincidences and incredibly convenient. If I was BKFC I’d also be looking at this and saying ‘hang on, I own a significant chunk of this club and I’m in no way happy that folk who have repeatedly shown they don’t know what they’re doing are appointing their pals to all the major roles.’ And then on top of that, the evidence can be corroborated by the fact that on the football side, they have shown themselves to be absolutely incompetent numerous times previously.👍

[ChuckNor]

Foley is coming across as a bit of a spoilt child, or maybe more accurate a billionaire not used to hearing the word no. Until we find out who his suggestions were, we may never do, we won’t know if they made the right decision or not to ignore the advice. I’d hope they did exactly as you suggested and took time to reflect that their decision was the right one and it wasn’t a case of giving Foley the middle finger. We don’t know how any conversation went though. Maybe they did listen to his suggestions and gave him their reasons for going with their decision.

The only thing here is we know Kensell was meeting with Malky for a while before the season ended. I remember seeing pictures of him at a game in the second half of the season (can’t remember which game, was before the split I’m sure).

[B.H.F.C]

Possibly or they're not prepared to waste a player of some quality at Hibs when the club is a bit of a mess.

I don’t think that’s the case. Or it shouldn’t be. We’re not in a terribly different position to when this was all concluded a few months ago. There’s been a bit of an assumption that we’d just get players from them, and we will from time to time, just not a frequently as some people expected IMO.

[Bobby's Cinema]

Ron Gordon doesn't come out of this squeaky clean either.He was equally culpable for the mess of the past few years.It was also him who thought it was a good idea to place his son as Head of Recruitment.I wish the Gordon family had never set foot in ER.****ing hell. Lovely start to the season.A bit naïve probably and poorly advised but Ron was a great character in his short time with us and I don't doubt he had the best of intentions to make us a success. It's now that we feel rudderless without him. Personally would love nothing more than this to be a success for him. Honestly sad stuff on here.

[Gordy M]

How’s Bournemouth getting on? How are his ice hockey team getting on? Who says he wanted NM to stay?He’s shown an infinitely higher level of competence in sports than Gordon and Kensell, so I have absolutely no issue saying he knows more about what he’s doing than those two do.Exactly you dont know, thats the whole point. It should not be out in the open......you think his comments have been helpful in ay way at all?

[Lago]

I don’t think that’s the case. Or it shouldn’t be. We’re not in a terribly different position to when this was all concluded a few months ago. There’s been a bit of an assumption that we’d just get players from them, and we will from time to time, just not a frequently as some people expected IMO.Hopefully your right as the whole thing seems to be going tits up at the moment

[Paulie Walnuts]

Exactly you dont know, thats the whole point. It should not be out in the open......you think his comments have been helpful in ay way at all?

I don’t think the comments are necessarily helpful, but if Gordon and Kensell are ignoring his suggestions in favour of just appointing their mates into key roles and this is what it takes to get their heads out their ***** then I’ve absolutely no issue with it. The two of them have been long overdue being called out.

[B.H.F.C]

Hopefully your right as the whole thing seems to be going tits up at the moment

It certainly doesn’t look good. Not at all.

[The Modfather]

I don’t think that’s the case. Or it shouldn’t be. We’re not in a terribly different position to when this was all concluded a few months ago. There’s been a bit of an assumption that we’d just get players from them, and we will from time to time, just not a frequently as some people expected IMO.

There’s not much evidence we’re getting much of any benefit from Bournemouth/the group this summer. We’ve appointed internally, bought from the same markets we always shop in and the overarching theme to it all is not to pay any fees at all.

[truehibernian]

Maybe they haven’t offered us a player we feel is capable of playing in the first team. In fact, given McKay’s comments the other day I’d say that seems fairly likely.

And we have a winner 👍 this is all a recruitment issue and nothing to do with the appointment of SDG or MM. I think we’ve been offered a player or two and declined them. It’s also a clash of where the owners and the BK group see the business model going with regards player recruitment. I’d say it’s the Gordon’s still wanting project players permanently and Foley wanting players taken in on loan to make an immediate difference but to the benefit of their parent clubs - there does however have to be a happy medium.

[Gordy M]

I don’t think the comments are necessarily helpful, but if Gordon and Kensell are ignoring his suggestions and this is what it takes to get their heads out their ***** then I’ve absolutely no issue with it. The two of them have been long overdue being called out.Thats fine, call them out. I really dont have that much an issue with that, but then dont then say you dont want SDG and to a lesser extent MM. Awful comments just before the season starts.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Thats fine, call them out. I really dont have that much an issue with that, but then dont then say you dont want SDG and to a lesser extent MM. Awful comments just before the season starts.

So what do they call them out on? Something completely made up? Some sort of weird cryptic vague message that you can guarantee would have people going bananas as well wondering what the rift is?

If that’s the issue then they have to call them out on that. They can’t call them out on adding safe standing or singing sections for example when that’s not the issue.

[B.H.F.C]

Thats fine, call them out. I really dont have that much an issue with that, but then dont then say you dont want SDG and to a lesser extent MM. Awful comments just before the season starts.

He never said anything about Gray or McKay.

[Donegal Hibby]

Foley and BKFC are owners of the football club.

The fact folk keep repeating that they aren’t is quite incredible.

They own 25% , the Gordon's are the majority shareholders and it has stated on numerous times they would have the final say on decisions.

Whatever mistakes the Gordons ( Owners ) have made and there's been many , Foley is wrong to be blabbing to the media about something that should be kept indoors.

[Gordy M]

So what do they call them out on? Something completely made up?If that’s the issue then they have to call them out on that. They can’t call them out on adding safe standing for example when that’s not the issue.Call them out on communication or decision making, make it general.

[ChuckNor]

What a start for David Gray. Two very solid wins and performance followed by a really poor result and now a part owner of the club basically admitting they didn’t want him.

[Gordy M]

He never said anything about Gray or McKay.He didnt but he said they arent listening to us and then went on to mention coaching? As i said earlier, i hope he has been mis quoted

[flash]

Call them out on communication or decision making, make it general.

Interesting Foley quotes Lorient as a club where they are doing things right.

The fans there hate him and they just got relegated.

[Gordy M]

Interesting Foley quotes Lorient as a club where they are doing things right.The fans there hate him and they just got relegated.Yeh i thought that was a bit bizarre for him to say that? Im hoping the whole thing has been mis-interpreted or something.

[Donegal Hibby]

He never said anything about Gray or McKay.

Article says he didn't want Mackay and had an alternative to Gray which is why he's probably coming out talking in the media now .

It's still poor from him indicating that he didn't want both Mackay or Gray two weeks or so before the season starts .

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/revealed-hibs-decisions-that-prompted-ruthless-billionaire-backers-incendiary-intervention-4712133

[B.H.F.C]

What a start for David Gray. Two very solid wins and performance followed by a really poor result and now a part owner of the club basically admitting they didn’t want him.

I don’t think he’ll give a **** to be honest. He’ll be aware that there are plenty supporters who weren’t keen on him getting the job, he’ll not be fussed about Foley.

[Smartie]

Yeh i thought that was a bit bizarre for him to say that? Im hoping the whole thing has been mis-interpreted or something.

That's the biggest red flag of this whole fiasco for me tbh - the club Foley holds up as being the one where it's being done right is the one that got relegated, where the fans are unhappy about the tie in with the BKs.

What awaits us when we start doing things the BKs would consider to be right, I wonder?

[flash]

Yeh i thought that was a bit bizarre for him to say that? Im hoping the whole thing has been mis-interpreted or something.

There seems to be really old rich American guys talking pish everywhere these days.

[hibeerealist]

I think it's poor timing by Foley coming on the heels of a bad loss when we've only played three games and the other two were convincing wins.Had he waited until January when we were struggling in the lower half of the table then his comments would carry more weight. All he needed to say at this point was that it's early days with Hibs and the BKs are offering us advice without proclaiming that it's being ignored.I'm fine with the appointments of Mackay and Gray.You don't have £6million and your reputation invested in Hibs though. He is clearly worried about his investment and who can blame him.Aye, wait until January and things are even worse! BK & IG do NOT have a good record on appointments and I think Foley is entitled to air his views.This is the Gordon's last chance to get things right and it does not look too good at present.

[Paulie Walnuts]

They own 25% , the Gordon's are the majority shareholders and it has stated on numerous times they would have the final say on decisions.

Whatever mistakes the Gordons ( Owners ) have made and there's been many , Foley is wrong to be blabbing to the media about something that should be kept indoors.

Yes, they own 25%, so they’re owners of the club, and significant ones at that.

I’ve absolutely zero issue with Foley going public with it if that’s what it takes to get those two clowns to listen to someone else, as they themselves don’t have a clue what they’re doing. If I invested £6m and had those two deciding to appoint a head coach who was already here, the chairman’s mate and the ex goalie to a role and claiming all 3 were conveniently the best men for the job, then I’d be calling them out as well. Foley owes them nothing and doesn’t have to bow down to them.

[hibeerealist]

And we have a winner 👍 this is all a recruitment issue and nothing to do with the appointment of SDG or MM. I think we’ve been offered a player or two and declined them. It’s also a clash of where the owners and the BK group see the business model going with regards player recruitment. I’d say it’s the Gordon’s still wanting project players permanently and Foley wanting players taken in on loan to make an immediate difference but to the benefit of their parent clubs - there does however have to be a happy medium.Bill Foley is on record as stating his initial target is to have Hibs finishing 3rd regularly, given that I don't think he is going to dump players on us that are no good, young or otherwise as it defeats his aim.

[truehibernian]

Bill Foley is on record as stating his initial target is to have Hibs finishing 3rd regularly, given that I don't think he is going to dump players on us that are no good, young or otherwise as it defeats his aim.

I didn’t imply that, I mean he wants Hibs taking players his group think are good players, even on loan. I think the Gordon’s still cling to the hope they get a player in permanently without their help to sell on. I think it’s simply a clash of ideals and there is and has to be a happy medium.

[Greenworld]

The problem now it’s a very public spat and the pressure has just been increased on Gray and Mackay so they have to get it right. Was never a fan of this investment but what the hell are our owners and board up to did they carry out the proper due diligence on Foley. This will end badly and Kensal needs to be called out with a responseDon't see it that way it's nothing to do with them . They are employees of Hibernian.
The pressure is on Ian Gordon and the family to deal with what has developed as co owners.
I cannot see what they are gaining from owning the controling share of Hibs it just seems like one crises after the next it can't be much fun .


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[Up-the-slope]

Correct. He’s just got confidence in his strategy, I guess.Yup but for even handedness... we cant say that current board HAS got these appointments right either as none of us has full foresight (and if anyone does its time to fess up :) )But I think we can all say airing our 'dirty washing' in public is not really helpful of building any confidence.

[Silky]

Maybe we should take Foley's advices on board, ignore our Director of Football's recommendations then when everything goes t**ts up we can blame Black Knights for our relegation. He seems to be a typical hard hitting American businessman used to getting his own way then blaming someone else when things go wrong. Have we actually seen any of his cash yet?

We wouldn't though. We'd blame the Gordon's for listening to him and how, as majority owners they could have stood up to him but didn't.

[Greenworld]

They own 25% , the Gordon's are the majority shareholders and it has stated on numerous times they would have the final say on decisions.

Whatever mistakes the Gordons ( Owners ) have made and there's been many , Foley is wrong to be blabbing to the media about something that should be kept indoors.You know what's hilarious we all moan about not knowing what's going on at Hibs and when some info comes out all hell breaks loose

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[Hibeesforever]

We wouldn't though. We'd blame the Gordon's for listening to him and how, as majority owners they could have stood up to him but didn't.

It is clear that the person who needs to be more visible is Ian Gordon, he needs to explain the set up. Not anybody else.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Yeh i thought that was a bit bizarre for him to say that? Im hoping the whole thing has been mis-interpreted or something.For me too. How can he hold up a club that's just been relegated as an example of how the BK's model is going to benefit Hibs, or Lorient for that matter? If he is talking long term, how long is that in a sport where 6 months of mediocrity loses you support? This summer was the time for the BK's involvement to make a difference ... so far, nothing. How is that convincing any fan of Hibs that we are not just an afterthought to Bournemouth?

[truehibernian]

We wouldn't though. We'd blame the Gordon's for listening to him and how, as majority owners they could have stood up to him but didn't.

The Gordon’s have overseen poor football performance, poor staff appointments, dwindling crowds, poor season ticket sales and terrible financial losses. Certainly wouldn’t be listening to their advice that closely to be honest. They’ve turned us into a bit of a laughing stock if honest. Foley is probably just exposing that albeit I still think these things should never be as public as it’s counter productive and damaging.

[Up-the-slope]

There seems to be really old rich American guys talking pish everywhere these days.wasted comment when Smileys are disabled :)

[Keith_M]

wasted comment when Smileys are disabled :) Says who? :wink: :greengrin: :devil: :party: :smug:

[Ozyhibby]

How’s Bournemouth getting on? How are his ice hockey team getting on? Who says he wanted NM to stay?

He’s shown an infinitely higher level of competence in sports than Gordon and Kensell who have shown themselves on the playing side of sports, which is what this falls into, as wildly incompetent, so I have absolutely no issue saying he knows more about what he’s doing than those two do.

That’s the difference. Foley has a track record of success.


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[may 21/05/2016]

That’s the difference. Foley has a track record of success.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLorient fc fans will disagree

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[CL0762]

Article says he didn't want Mackay and had an alternative to Gray which is why he's probably coming out talking in the media now .

It's still poor from him indicating that he didn't want both Mackay or Gray two weeks or so before the season starts .

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/revealed-hibs-decisions-that-prompted-ruthless-billionaire-backers-incendiary-intervention-4712133

Using a local newspaper to push a narrative they want is all I take from that article.

The only reason he’s talking about it, is because a BBC reporter asked him.

Foley hasn’t went public through his own outlets and said “grrr bad Hibs boo” he was asked about a defeat we had at the weekend and that allowed him to express his thoughts beyond just the defeat.

Those saying it’s unprofessional, poor taste etc, are the same who say the club are too quiet and don’t say enough.

As mentioned by other posters, if this puts a rocket up Gordon & Kensell’s arse and gets them moving then great. Foley didn’t accrue his fortune by being a nice guy and keeping quiet about things he doesn’t like.

Edit

The way it’s been managed publicly from the start is piss poor all over as well.

From Kensell saying this will be a game changer for us and Scottish football, to Foley himself publicly saying we’d have a couple million in the summer, to then Kensell supposedly saying in the company of other that any off field spending was getting curbed and all funds were going towards the first team is just all over the place.

[Up-the-slope]

Says who? :wink: :greengrin: :devil: :party: :smug:oi... whats makes you so special.... or me blacklisted (:

[Up-the-slope]

I have now read the BBC interview - must admit less than keen of his description of multi team system... there is a thin line between mutual co-operation and feeder club. He comes across as the later

[hibeerealist]

For me too. How can he hold up a club that's just been relegated as an example of how the BK's model is going to benefit Hibs, or Lorient for that matter? If he is talking long term, how long is that in a sport where 6 months of mediocrity loses you support? This summer was the time for the BK's involvement to make a difference ... so far, nothing. How is that convincing any fan of Hibs that we are not just an afterthought to Bournemouth?Given that Lorient were relegated at the end of last season, it may be the case that they did not listen to their minority shareholder (BKG 33%) but ARE listening now and Bill Foley is trying to avoid same at Hibs (get them to listen in case they go same way as Lorient)?

[JohnM1875]

Given that Lorient were relegated at the end of last season, it may be the case that they did not listen to their minority shareholder (BKG 33%) but ARE listening now and Bill Foley is trying to avoid same at Hibs (get them to listen in case they go same way as Lorient)?

That's what I took from it as well. Could obviously be wrong though and Foley is talking pish.

[hibeerealist]

That's what I took from it as well. Could obviously be wrong though and Foley is talking pish.Could be but this guy is a serial winner and I think he is just frustrated by what's going on, especially if he thinks we are going off in a different direction to what he believes we agreed or understood at outset.

[matty_f]

I don’t think Matty’s saying that. There is a middle ground where we aren’t dictated to but also that we respect the system we had allegedly bought into. The way this comes across at the moment is Kensell and Gordon heard “£6m investment” and nothing else when discussing this with BK FC. It’s a farce.

Thanks - that's exactly it.

Both sides entered into this willingly, Gordon knew that the deal was Hibs would become part of the wider group, we know this because they ****ing said it at the AGM, and Foley knew that the Gordons would retain full control, we know this because he ****ing said in the press at the time of the deal.

At some point, surely there's been a discussion to map out how Hibs go from where we are today, to being a club that's fully integrated in, and enjoying the benefits of, the wider group?

I can't see any way in a properly run business where that project plan isn't mapped out.

The appointments of Sporting Directors etc would surely fall into that plan, which is why I think Foley would be pissed off at being ignored in this instance.

More so, because the guy we went for is the Chairman's pal. That might be unfair but those are the optics of it.

[TrinityHFC]

Lorient fc fans will disagree

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Lorient are where they pretty much are usually. Success is built over a longer period than one season. What is important is what is being put in place to make sure they are more successful in future. I don’t know anything about them but sounded from Foley’s comments that they are changing things.

[04Sauzee]

Thanks - that's exactly it.

Both sides entered into this willingly, Gordon knew that the deal was Hibs would become part of the wider group, we know this because they ****ing said it at the AGM, and Foley knew that the Gordons would retain full control, we know this because he ****ing said in the press at the time of the deal.

At some point, surely there's been a discussion to map out how Hibs go from where we are today, to being a club that's fully integrated in, and enjoying the benefits of, the wider group?

I can't see any way in a properly run business where that project plan isn't mapped out.

The appointments of Sporting Directors etc would surely fall into that plan, which is why I think Foley would be pissed off at being ignored in this instance.

More so, because the guy we went for is the Chairman's pal. That might be unfair but those are the optics of it.

We don't even know if the suggestions were just that regarding MM's role and SDG's appointment. How strongly did he put his case across for his guys/suggestions. I know the media went to Foley but he could have played this much better. Hopefully things will become clearer over the next few days as the last thing the club needs is people working against each other. And definitely don't want to see a fall out from fans as we should be trying to unite behind the team.

[Up-the-slope]

Thanks - that's exactly it. Both sides entered into this willingly, Gordon knew that the deal was Hibs would become part of the wider group, we know this because they ****ing said it at the AGM, and Foley knew that the Gordons would retain full control, we know this because he ****ing said in the press at the time of the deal. At some point, surely there's been a discussion to map out how Hibs go from where we are today, to being a club that's fully integrated in, and enjoying the benefits of, the wider group?I can't see any way in a properly run business where that project plan isn't mapped out. The appointments of Sporting Directors etc would surely fall into that plan, which is why I think Foley would be pissed off at being ignored in this instance. More so, because the guy we went for is the Chairman's pal. That might be unfair but those are the optics of it.Matty - you had me cheering you on there... Until you used the word 'optics'

[matty_f]

Matty - you had me cheering you on there... Until you used the word 'optics'

Sorry - I shall try not to do it again. At least I avoided “synergy” etc.

[Baader]

Foley hasn’t went public through his own outlets and said “grrr bad Hibs boo” he was asked about a defeat we had at the weekend and that allowed him to express his thoughts beyond just the defeat

It's not how you go about it though. Stuff like that should be staying in the boardroom. It shouldn't be aired publicly. Foley may have been asked about it but he should have shown more decorum.

We now have a situation where our new Sporting Director and manager know they weren't wanted by people invested in the club. That leads to added pressure and wondering if your card is already marked. So badly handled and Gordon, Kensell and Foley and his group need to sort out this mess.

[Smartie]

It's not how you go about it though. Stuff like that should be staying in the boardroom. It shouldn't be aired publicly. Foley may have been asked about it but he should have shown more decorum.

We now have a situation where our new Sporting Director and manager know they weren't wanted by people invested in the club. That leads to added pressure and wondering if your card is already marked. So badly handled and Gordon, Kensell and Foley and his group need to sort out this mess.

Is the fact that the Sporting Director and Head Coach now know that more down to Foley’s loose tongue or by whoever chose to assist the Evening News with a few “facts”?

Either could be culpable… and either way, it’s a pish outcome.

Although it doesn’t change anything ultimately and Gray and MacKay will still want to be a success.

[matty_f]

It's not how you go about it though. Stuff like that should be staying in the boardroom. It shouldn't be aired publicly. Foley may have been asked about it but he should have shown more decorum.

We now have a situation where our new Sporting Director and manager know they weren't wanted by people invested in the club. That leads to added pressure and wondering if your card is already marked. So badly handled and Gordon, Kensell and Foley and his group need to sort out this mess.

Totally agree. If you’re unhappy with decisions, go and speak to the people who made them and sort it out in private. There’s no good in talking about it in public.

Be interesting to know who leaked the decisions he was unhappy with as that’s not quoted as coming from Foley.

[LaMotta]

Totally agree. If you’re unhappy with decisions, go and speak to the people who made them and sort it out in private. There’s no good in talking about it in public. Be interesting to know who leaked the decisions he was unhappy with as that’s not quoted as coming from Foley.100% agree on your first sentence. Can only put the outburst down to the ego of a billionaire being hurt. On the leaking - I can't see any reason why anyone at Hibs would want that information in the public domain - it's a very strange one.......

[dp00]

Put unnecessary pressure on Gray too… he will know he is already not wanted there by a section of the board

We can’t ever just do things the right way

[Tambo]

I would have preferred this stuff to stay public behind the club, I thought things were on the up, a bad result and now this and the League hasn't even started yet.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Put unnecessary pressure on Gray too… he will know he is already not wanted there by a section of the board

We can’t ever just do things the right way

How many are on the board again? 5? The Gordon’s x 2, BKFC x 2 and Kensell?

[K-Zazu]

How many are on the board again? 5? The Gordon’s x 2, BKFC x 2 and Kensell?

https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/club/directors/

[CL0762]

How many are on the board again? 5? The Gordon’s x 2, BKFC x 2 and Kensell?

Currently 12 directors plus a secretary named on CH.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC005323/officers

[The Modfather]

Maybe it’s not just Gray & Mackay Foley suggested different people for. Maybe they questioned our new structure and the way we recruit players, which Hibs chose not to listen to.

[Coco Bryce]

Maybe he questioned Ben Kensell's contribution in general.

[ChuckNor]

Totally agree. If you’re unhappy with decisions, go and speak to the people who made them and sort it out in private. There’s no good in talking about it in public.

Be interesting to know who leaked the decisions he was unhappy with as that’s not quoted as coming from Foley.

Funny one. I think it was someone from Hibs that leaked it. The only side in this spat to benefit from the information that Gray wasn’t wanted is Hibs. Gray was a popular appointment and is without question loved by the fan base. If you want to keep the fans on side or want them not to like someone then point out the other side didn’t rate the fan favourite.

Speculative, but I don’t see how Foley (or anyone from his side) benefits from this latest leak.

[LaMotta]

Funny one. I think it was someone from Hibs that leaked it. The only side in this spat to benefit from the information that Gray wasn’t wanted is Hibs. Gray was a popular appointment and is without question loved by the fan base. If you want to keep the fans on side or want them not to like someone then point out the other side didn’t rate the fan favourite. Speculative, but I don’t see how Foley (or anyone from his side) benefits from this latest leak.Gray is without question loved by the fans, but his appointment wasn't without question from a proportion of the fanbase. I don't see in anyway how a leak like this benefits Hibs. As others have said it just piles more pressure on and unsettles the fanbase even more so.If Hibs have purposely leaked it then it highlights further flaws in the decision making of those at the top of the club, IMO.

[CentreForward]

Is this just Foley’s attempt ultimately to take over the club? Certainly not good that these rifts seem to be developing so soon.

[neil7908]

That’s the difference. Foley has a track record of success.


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What success? I don't care about ice hockey, running a franchise in a North American ice hockey league has nothing to do with Scottish football.

He took over Bournemouth in December 2022 when they were 14th and they finished 15th. Last year they finished 12th. He didn't get them up from the Championship. He took over a mid table EPL team and has kept them mid table. They could just as easily go down next year, just like his other club, Lorient.

So he's got less than 2 years experience running football teams, with one getting relegated and the other showing minor improvements.

However, I think this new statement is clearer than ever that we, if fully under BK control, would be subservient to the needs of clubs above us in the pyramid. I'm not sure I fancy our players, manager and style of play (whatever that is) being imposed from above. And the releasing of this statement just after our first loss of the season is very poor and strikes me as an attempt to destabilise the club he claims to care about.

I'm not happy with IG and BK at all but the BK Group are already causing trouble here and it's absolutely clear as crystal that they do not have our interests at heart. We will be very low down in this pyramid, behind Bournemouth, Lorient and clubs he gets in Holland and Portugal.

[NC1875]

However, I think this new statement is clearer than ever that we, if fully under BK control, would be subservient to the needs of clubs above us in the pyramid. I'm not sure I fancy our players, manager and style of play (whatever that is) being imposed from above. And the releasing of this statement just after our first loss of the season is very poor and strikes me as an attempt to destabilise the club he claims to care about.

I'm not happy with IG and BK at all but the BK Group are already causing trouble here and it's absolutely clear as crystal that they do not have our interests at heart. We will be very low down in this pyramid, behind Bournemouth, Lorient and clubs he gets in Holland and Portugal.

Who brought in BK and bragged about game changing investment ? The same clowns now not listening to them. The problem here isn’t Foley or BK

[Callum_62]

What success? I don't care about ice hockey, running a franchise in a North American ice hockey league has nothing to do with Scottish football.

He took over Bournemouth in December 2022 when they were 14th and they finished 15th. Last year they finished 12th. He didn't get them up from the Championship. He took over a mid table EPL team and has kept them mid table. They could just as easily go down next year, just like his other club, Lorient.

So he's got less than 2 years experience running football teams, with one getting relegated and the other showing minor improvements.

However, I think this new statement is clearer than ever that we, if fully under BK control, would be subservient to the needs of clubs above us in the pyramid. I'm not sure I fancy our players, manager and style of play (whatever that is) being imposed from above. And the releasing of this statement just after our first loss of the season is very poor and strikes me as an attempt to destabilise the club he claims to care about.

I'm not happy with IG and BK at all but the BK Group are already causing trouble here and it's absolutely clear as crystal that they do not have our interests at heart. We will be very low down in this pyramid, behind Bournemouth, Lorient and clubs he gets in Holland and Portugal.Bournemouth had a 24% increase in points last season compared to the season previously

I think their manager was shortlisted for manager of the year wasn't he?

Bit disingenuous to suggest they stood still

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[neil7908]

Bournemouth had a 24% increase in points last season compared to the season previously

I think their manager was shortlisted for manager of the year wasn't he?

Bit disingenuous to suggest they stood still

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It's an improvement of 2 league places from when he took over. That's in a 20 team league of course. I'm maybe being a bit unfair but I don't really see the evidence of BK group success. They have had one good season. That's it. I'll be very interested in seeing how Bournemouth do this season but I wouldn't be shocked to see them in a relegation battle.

I'm not happy with our current ownership but there is very little to suggest that the BK group have any serious track record in football. They might turn Lorient, Bournemouth etc into huge success stories. But the jury is very much still out and it's clear that we will lose a hell of a lot of autonomy if we are fully taken over.

I just think we need to balanced and not see the BK Group as some knights (pun intended) in shining armour that will guarantee success.

[neil7908]

Who brought in BK and bragged about game changing investment ? The same clowns now not listening to them. The problem here isn’t Foley or BK

Foley has not handled this well. If he has an issue (and he may well be in the right) then you don't put it out into public. He doesn't own the club. He obviously knows that.

I also wonder if he makes that statement if we had won on Saturday. Feels a bit like he's waiting for us to lose so we can say told you so and sow division. Not sure that's someone with Hibs best interests at heart.

[Albert Kidd 86’]

All this foley intervention seems to me like the opening shots of a take over, classic divide and conquer.As a purely theoretical excersce; How much do you think it would take for the Gordons etc to sell?

[JohnM1875]

All this foley intervention seems to me like the opening shots of a take over, classic divide and conquer.As a purely theoretical excersce; How much do you think it would take for the Gordons etc to sell?

They couldn't sell to BK group unless the ownership rules are changed.

[tonyrougier123]

I just hope Bill Foley understands one plain fact,the first team badly needs some quality and depth. Otherwise we are in for another season of disappointment lingering around mid table it’s that simple.

The squad we have won’t carry us till January and keep us in touch with top four places just how I see it playing out. Couple key injuries and in fact we would probably be in a bad position.

David Gray needs backed needs players he can rely on and signings made otherwise we will be throwing another legend out the door without the proper backing that was promised mere months ago.

Get it sorted hibs!

[RIP]

It wouldn't matter if we had £100 million pound investment.

Hibs are a bottom six SPL side in an unfashionable league in a country regarded by those in the English leagues as a footballing backwater.

Granted we picked up two centre halves already but strikers are much thinner on the ground.

If a player currently at Killie, St Mirren or Dundee is performing well, he's hardly going to jump if Hibs comes calling.

There aren't many stars in the lower leagues (like Nisbet) to pick up on the cheap.

All very well spending every transfer window bemoaning the lack of 'quality signings'.

Hasn't the penny dropped that in our current position, we will be lucky to attract anyone this season?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Foley has not handled this well. If he has an issue (and he may well be in the right) then you don't put it out into public. He doesn't own the club. He obviously knows that.

I also wonder if he makes that statement if we had won on Saturday. Feels a bit like he's waiting for us to lose so we can say told you so and sow division. Not sure that's someone with Hibs best interests at heart.

He DOES own the club. Not the whole club, but neither do the Gordon’s. Through his group, BKFC, he absolutely, unarguably, is an owner of the club.

[flash]

Let's be honest if we hadn't lost on Saturday and Foley came out with these comments the vast majority of us would be wondering who the hell he thinks he is.

Football is such an emotional business, unlike the insurance world he comes from, that opinions can change on a week to week basis.

A couple of decent signings, a good win on Saturday and things are looking much better already.

His comments came over as a bit petulant and huffy to me and I now find myself a bit worried about the whole tie in as it appears he just wants all the clubs he invests in to exist purely for Bournemouth's benefit.

This isn't to say our current regime aren't making an erse of things, they clearly are, but personally I would trust them to have the club's best interests at heart more than BF does.

Feel we are in for a pretty eventful time.

[Springbank]

It wouldn't matter if we had £100 million pound investment.

Hibs are a bottom six SPL side in an unfashionable league in a country regarded by those in the English leagues as a footballing backwater.
Granted we picked up two centre halves already but strikers are much thinner on the ground.

If a player currently at Killie, St Mirren or Dundee is performing well, he's hardly going to jump if Hibs comes calling.

There aren't many stars in the lower leagues (like Nisbet) to pick up on the cheap.

All very well spending every transfer window bemoaning the lack of 'quality signings'. Hasn't the penny dropped that in our current position, we will be lucky to attract anyone this season.

I've said it a few times but worth repeating.

Our issues are all in midfield.

When SDG plays dynamic players in there (and NNW Newell & Campbell have started well) we suddenly conceded none & [because we shift the ball Quicker & with purpose] suddenly we are scoring too. That's helped by a first choice defence who want to play forward more (and well done SDG for that positive tactical shift)

so heres what we saw on Saturday - The minute we lose any of our first XI & rely on Levitt, Amos,(cm) Bushiri (ch) then we play slow, predictable football, in the wrong part of the pitch, easy to defend against. We need good midfielders with a bit of intensity. Then we'll see chances for the forwards to take

[weecounty hibby]

It wouldn't matter if we had £100 million pound investment.

Hibs are a bottom six SPL side in an unfashionable league in a country regarded by those in the English leagues as a footballing backwater.

Granted we picked up two centre halves already but strikers are much thinner on the ground.

If a player currently at Killie, St Mirren or Dundee is performing well, he's hardly going to jump if Hibs comes calling.

There aren't many stars in the lower leagues (like Nisbet) to pick up on the cheap.

All very well spending every transfer window bemoaning the lack of 'quality signings'.

Hasn't the penny dropped that in our current position, we will be lucky to attract anyone this season?

Saved me typing all that. Take off the green tinted specs and we are not that an attractive proposition. Constant state of change, managers that regularly don't last a season, bottom six, just lost to Kelty ****ing hearts. The only way to get players to cone to us is to pay silly money and that doesn't seem to have worked well recently either if the Jair, Kenneh rumours are to be believed. What a depressing mess we have got ourselves into again

[Paulie Walnuts]

Saved me typing all that. Take off the green tinted specs and we are not that an attractive proposition. Constant state of change, managers that regularly don't last a season, bottom six, just lost to Kelty ****ing hearts. The only way to get players to cone to us is to pay silly money and that doesn't seem to have worked well recently either if the Jair, Kenneh rumours are to be believed. What a depressing mess we have got ourselves into again

We’re an attractive proposition, if for no other reason than your point regarding Jair and Kenneh.

At our level especially, footballers are wanting to maximise their income. A move to Hibs on £6k a week for 3 years compared to a move/staying at Dundee/Kilmarnock/Swindon on £2k a week for 3 years for example could be the difference between not working a day in your life when you finish up or having to go out and learn a whole new career.

Throw in the fact that we’re probably still more likely to win a trophy than anyone outside the Old Firm, bigger crowds, better facilities etc, then we’re absolutely still an attractive proposition. Nobody is going to be desperate to stay at Kilmarnock or Dundee so they can get knocked out of Europe by a team they’ve never heard of once.

[weecounty hibby]

We’re an attractive proposition, if for no other reason than your point regarding Jair and Kenneh.

At our level especially, footballers are wanting to maximise their income. A move to Hibs on £6k a week compared to a move/staying at Dundee/Kilmarnock/Swindon on £2k a week for example could be the difference between not working a day in your life when you finish up or having to go out and learn a whole new career.

Throw in the fact that we’re probably still more likely to win a trophy than anyone outside the Old Firm, bigger crowds, better facilities etc, then we’re absolutely still an attractive proposition. Nobody is going to be desperate to stay at Kilmarnock or Dundee so they can get knocked out of Europe by a team they’ve never heard of once.

So paying the quality of Jair and Kenneh big salaries is OK? You've missed my point. It makes us attractive to below average players who would never get a salary like that anywhere else. Therefore we pay big wages and get a bottom six team

[Paulie Walnuts]

So paying the quality of Jair and Kenneh big salaries is OK? You've missed my point. It makes us attractive to below average players who would never get a salary like that anywhere else. Therefore we pay big wages and get a bottom six team

It makes us attractive to everybody. It’ll make us attractive to below average players, it will also make us attractive to good players. Above average players also want to earn good money.

[.Sean.]

Yes, they own 25%, so they’re owners of the club, and significant ones at that.I’ve absolutely zero issue with Foley going public with it if that’s what it takes to get those two clowns to listen to someone else, as they themselves don’t have a clue what they’re doing. If I invested £6m and had those two deciding to appoint a head coach who was already here, the chairman’s mate and the ex goalie to a role and claiming all 3 were conveniently the best men for the job, then I’d be calling them out as well. Foley owes them nothing and doesn’t have to bow down to them.In one!!!!!The more I hear about Ian Gordon the less I like. We’re not in good hands with him let’s put it that way. He’s so far out his depth and too arrogant and pigheeded to even realise the mess he’s making. An absolute clown playing at real life football manager with his families money. Speaks volumes about the character of him considering how long he’s been at the club and nobody couldn’t tell you what he even talks like 😂

[Not In The Know]

The Gordon’s have overseen poor football performance, poor staff appointments, dwindling crowds, poor season ticket sales and terrible financial losses. Certainly wouldn’t be listening to their advice that closely to be honest. They’ve turned us into a bit of a laughing stock if honest. Foley is probably just exposing that albeit I still think these things should never be as public as it’s counter productive and damaging.100%. The clowns who have signed umpteen crap players over the last 5 years, systematically reduced crowds and league position have basically told Foley and his team the players you want us to take aren’t good enough. No wonder he’s fizzing.

[weecounty hibby]

It makes us attractive to everybody. It’ll make us attractive to below average players, it will also make us attractive to good players. Above average players also want to earn good money.

Above average players will have more options available to them though. I hope I'm wrong but I fear we will not see any real quality signings this year, dare I say no marquee signing. I'm normally pretty optimistic about Hibs but all this **** has really got me down to the extent that I'm not really that bothered about Hibs at the moment

[Hibernian Verse]

In one!!!!!The more I hear about Ian Gordon the less I like. We’re not in good hands with him let’s put it that way. He’s so far out his depth and too arrogant and pigheeded to even realise the mess he’s making. An absolute clown playing at real life football manager with his families money. Speaks volumes about the character of him considering how long he’s been at the club and nobody couldn’t tell you what he even talks like 😂

He's out his depth but he's not an arrogant man, nor is he "pigheeded". He's leaned on Kensell for help in the wrong departments which is causing the issues IMO. Unfortunately he is probably too tight with him now to look elsewhere.

[blackpoolhibs]

“Expecting to run the show” is one way to put it. Another way to look at it is that Hibs have demonstrated over a number of years they don’t know what they’re doing on the football side (B team - DOF - Sporting Director). The Black Knights can point to Bournemouth and the Vegas team to show they know how to make good sporting decisions. Foley probably looked at it as Hibs being delighted to get help with the football side and the football decisions. As it turns out it looks like Hibs were happy to take the money but continue to make the football decisions themselves despite how disastrous they have been at doing so over the last 4 or 5 years. If I was Foley I’d feel like a cash cow rather than someone being embraced to help with the weakest area of the club, the football side.The last bit is crucial, Foley probably now thinks they have taken him for a mug, good luck getting anymore investment Hibs.

[Paulie Walnuts]

He's out his depth but he's not an arrogant man, nor is he "pigheeded". He's leaned on Kensell for help in the wrong departments which is causing the issues IMO. Unfortunately he is probably too tight with him now to look elsewhere.

If the rumours (and yes I appreciate that they’re rumours), from more than one source on here, are true in that he won’t step away from recruitment because he ‘likes doing it’ then I’d suggest that arrogant and pig headed are absolutely suitable descriptions of him.

[blackpoolhibs]

So in essence you are advocating we accepted their first recommendations even if we thought they were the wrong ones just so we don’t upset the apple cart ?We have a bunch of goons at the helm of our club, i'd have let Foley do what he wanted, he has a history of getting things right, the clowns at Hibs the opposite.

[.Sean.]

He's out his depth but he's not an arrogant man, nor is he "pigheeded". He's leaned on Kensell for help in the wrong departments which is causing the issues IMO. Unfortunately he is probably too tight with him now to look elsewhere.I’d say the fact he’s still involving himself in recruitment, when we’ve evidence as to how hopeless he is at spotting talent, absolutely screams arrogance

[Ozyhibby]

I’d say the fact he’s still involving himself in recruitment, when we’ve evidence as to how hopeless he is at spotting talent, absolutely screams arrogance

He’ll still have the support of fans against Foley though simply because he is in position and they see it as Hibs v BK.


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[Greenworld]

In one!!!!!The more I hear about Ian Gordon the less I like. We’re not in good hands with him let’s put it that way. He’s so far out his depth and too arrogant and pigheeded to even realise the mess he’s making. An absolute clown playing at real life football manager with his families money. Speaks volumes about the character of him considering how long he’s been at the club and nobody couldn’t tell you what he even talks like [emoji23]I've no beef with the Gordon family and I'm sure they mean well. However Ron new before his death that he needed help in steering the correct path. Unfortunately as happens so often in business the sons takeover and put simply just don't have the same drive .
This mess is on the Gordon's watch these saleries if true are Ian Gordon's fault.
So how about the Gordon's put a further few millions into Hibs as a gift to let the mess be sorted and clear out the players laughing all the way to the bank.
The Foley money was meant help Hibs mover forward and to offer Hibs help through the black knights recruitment team and any other assistance they may wish to use.
To blank any suggestions being put forward by the co owners is as you say arrogant and maybe even childish .
Kensell and McPherson with the families blessing have done a fantastic job (not) you could argue the that on the infrastructure side of things Hibs have done well. However that is easy to do ,you could argue for Kensell that he has done well commercially , he has ,that is his skill set it's what he's good at.
Footballing wise it's one mistake after another.
How anyone cannot see Gray , Eddie May were appointed as cheap options is beyond me . Eddie may for Christ sake cummon.
I'm glad this has been highlighted by whoever leaked it as this is no partnership as it stands , its cheers for the money we will carry on as normal.
I'd laugh if folley sold his shares to tony bloom since Hibs didn't want them involved either.
Shambles


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[Lago]

We have a bunch of goons at the helm of our club, i'd have let Foley do what he wanted, he has a history of getting things right, the clowns at Hibs the opposite.Correct, I'm at a point where I have zero sympathy for the decision makers at Hibs they've turn us into at best a mid table laughing stock of a club.

[Hibernian Verse]

I’d say the fact he’s still involving himself in recruitment, when we’ve evidence as to how hopeless he is at spotting talent, absolutely screams arrogance

Is he definitely still doing this?

[blackpoolhibs]

The good thing about all of this is Foley has only taken 4 months to realise what a clown the owners son is, and the guy running the show and what a mess we are.

[.Sean.]

He’ll still have the support of fans against Foley though simply because he is in position and they see it as Hibs v BK. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWill he? I think we could be in for a real split as half the support can see right through Ian Gordon. What has Ian Gordon ever achieved in the world of sport. Hee haw

[Libby Hibby]

The good thing about all of this is Foley has only taken 4 months to realise what a clown the owners son is, and the guy running the show and what a mess we are.

His comment about ‘not listening but listening now’ surely means that we might’ve been a mess but perhaps not as much now, if indeed they are listening.

[NC1875]

Will he? I think we could be in for a real split as half the support can see right through Ian Gordon. What has Ian Gordon ever achieved in the world of sport. Hee haw

Hey that’s not true. He attended some course on talent identification somewhere I’m sure 😂😂

[One Day Soon]

Gray is without question loved by the fans, but his appointment wasn't without question from a proportion of the fanbase. I don't see in anyway how a leak like this benefits Hibs. As others have said it just piles more pressure on and unsettles the fanbase even more so.If Hibs have purposely leaked it then it highlights further flaws in the decision making of those at the top of the club, IMO.

It doesn't benefit Hibs as a club, but a couple of senior people in the club might think it benefits them. If you are effectively being accused by Foley of not listening to good advice then leaking that David Gray is one of the appointments you didn't listen to him over might be thought to paint you in a better light.

To put it another way, 'Bugger the club, let's defend our personal positions'.

[Northernhibee]

Will he? I think we could be in for a real split as half the support can see right through Ian Gordon. What has Ian Gordon ever achieved in the world of sport. Hee haw

I can say this as I’ve been very critical of the stewardship of the club since Jack Ross left (maybe actually a little before he left), and it felt like I was one of very few to have a massive slab of scepticism of the direction we were going in. Going by some of the arguments I ended up having on here back then it was definitely a position of a very small minority.


Latterly it’s completely different - still a few people who disagree but I’d say that the feeling I get is majority consensus of the Gordon’s and Kensell is cautious at best, to wanting them out ASAP at worst. Again there are still a few voices in absolute support of them and some cynical voices still giving them benefit of the doubt, but the tide has defo turned quite quickly.

Simply put, the Gordon’s need to pull a few rabbits out of hats very quickly.

[Yorkshire HFC]

I’d say the fact he’s still involving himself in recruitment, when we’ve evidence as to how hopeless he is at spotting talent, absolutely screams arroganceYou need football people to run a football club - I'm hoping MacKay has a big role in Hibs going forward - at least he knows football. I want to hear from him - not from Gordon or Kensall. They know as much about football as me or anyone else on the internet - not very much. And I don't have much interest in what an American running an EPL club has to say about Hibs - what do Hibs and Bournemouth have in common? Very little, I'd suggest - they exist in totally different stratospheres.Let the businessmen do whatever it is they do and stay away from the football side - I'm not interested in them. I don't care who they are or what they do. The CEO of Starbucks doesn't know anything about coffee - the CEO of McDonalds doesn't know anything about hamburgers - they worry about the money and let other people sell the coffee and burgers. Let MacKay get involved with the very inexperienced manager and let them put a plan together.It's like anything else - it doesn't have to be complicated. It's when people start meddling in things they know nothing about that complications arise - like blowing any chance of winning one of the only two things we can win before the season has even started.

[Onion]

Foley has not handled this well. If he has an issue (and he may well be in the right) then you don't put it out into public. He doesn't own the club. He obviously knows that.

I also wonder if he makes that statement if we had won on Saturday. Feels a bit like he's waiting for us to lose so we can say told you so and sow division. Not sure that's someone with Hibs best interests at heart.

Hibs losing to Kelty is not your everyday loss. It's reached BBC who asked him about it (in roundabout way) ! Foley doesn't sound like a guy that enjoys being embarrassed, or suffers fools. Hibs need to manage him much better. Alternatively, win football matches.

[TrinityHFC]

He DOES own the club. Not the whole club, but neither do the Gordon’s. Through his group, BKFC, he absolutely, unarguably, is an owner of the club.

I think most people understand that everyone who owns shares is a part owner. Equally most people will understand that when the term owner is used it refers to the people who are the majority owners.

[matty_f]

You wonder if this review that was conducted (apparently) with the support of Black Knight brought up recommendations that Hibs have ignored in favour of going our own way (which Gordon is in his rights to do) and that’s what’s irked Foley.

Essentially “we’ve screwed up, can you come and look at where we went wrong and help us fix it please?”

Then the review is done, recommendations are made, and we’ve decided that we want to ignore them in favour of the better idea we’ve had.

Considering the review came about after we had sacked one manager, missed out on top six and were heading towards sacking another manager, it feels like a wasted effort if recommendations were put forward and then ignored, as appears to be the case.

It feels like Hibs want the benefits of being in a multi club set up without wanting to be part of a multi club set up when it comes to running things.

That’s never going to work.

It’s mental that this hasn’t come out in discussions between the parties throughout the whole process of agreeing terms and what it looks like in practice to get this investment agreed.

Both sides surely went in with their eyes open and willing to do their bit?

[matty_f]

Hibs losing to Kelty is not your everyday loss. It's reached BBC who asked him about it (in roundabout way) ! Foley doesn't sound like a guy that enjoys being embarrassed, or suffers fools. Hibs need to manage him much better. Alternatively, win football matches.

Is this an example of someone not accepting mediocrity?

[GreenCastle]

When the Black Knights was mentioned I was for it - mainly as I felt we have been under performing for far too long and surely fresh eyes and ideas would help move us forward.

Do I trust the current set up - simply no. Fair enough the stadium and other parts of the club have improved but the football side has become a joke.

I can’t believe we are less than 2 weeks from start of the season and how bad our squad is.

Foley and co - I’m not actually that bothered if they call out those running the club - ok it's maybe not the best way to go about things but we have had countless threads on here moaning about the set up.

If this helps bring some clarity or make those running the club start tk get things together so be it.

A large majority see Hibs as a joke right now - we shouldn't be losing to Kelty - 100% unacceptable. Call it out and take action - sort it out.

It's Tuesday and still no new players - still only 1 striker at the club.

I don't expect us to suddenly be challenging with the Black Knights but I would trust them more than several folk who have failed at the club in the recent few seasons. ER is far too comfortable for players / staff and I'm glad someone is calling it out.

[Northernhibee]

You wonder if this review that was conducted (apparently) with the support of Black Knight brought up recommendations that Hibs have ignored in favour of going our own way (which Gordon is in his rights to do) and that’s what’s irked Foley.

Essentially “we’ve screwed up, can you come and look at where we went wrong and help us fix it please?”

Then the review is done, recommendations are made, and we’ve decided that we want to ignore them in favour of the better idea we’ve had.

Considering the review came about after we had sacked one manager, missed out on top six and were heading towards sacking another manager, it feels like a wasted effort if recommendations were put forward and then ignored, as appears to be the case.

It feels like Hibs want the benefits of being in a multi club set up without wanting to be part of a multi club set up when it comes to running things.

That’s never going to work.

It’s mental that this hasn’t come out in discussions between the parties throughout the whole process of agreeing terms and what it looks like in practice to get this investment agreed.

Both sides surely went in with their eyes open and willing to do their bit?

Even if somehow it hadn’t been explicitly mentioned then surely, surely, common sense tells you that billionaires don’t just chuck £6m at something expecting very little in return especially when they have a group of footballing teams that lead towards one club at the top of the pile?


To think otherwise would show a spectacular lack of both business and footballing knowledge.

We surely must be missing something.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I think most people understand that everyone who owns shares is a part owner. Equally most people will understand that when the term owner is used it refers to the people who are the majority owners.

That’s not what was said though. It was said that he DOESN’T own the club.

There’s a significant difference between a reference to ‘the owners’ generally being accepted as being the majority owners and point blank declaring that someone who owns a significant share of the club isn’t an owner. That’s two very different things.

[James70]

I think that Foley and many others are being over reactionary here.

I read Scott Allan's interview where he thought that David Gray was making a big difference with the team tactics as well as fitness. Let's face it Hibs should have won that match with the number of near things they had, doing everything but score. It's not like they were restricted to very few chances. If one or two of those attempts had finished up in the net everybody would have been quite happy.

In the past we have been getting the majority of possession in most games but not creating many chances. Shock results happen with every team so we just have to lick our wounds and move on.

[.Sean.]

Is this an example of someone not accepting mediocrity?Yes, and it’s about time. I hope he has upset Gordon as the more folk who tell him what he’s doing for us is miles away from ever being good enough the better

[hibeerealist]

Is this an example of someone not accepting mediocrity?Bill Foley has stated regular 3rd place for Hibs to start with, anybody think this current lot will get 3rd this season?

[Scotty Leither]

Yes, and it’s about time. I hope he has upset Gordon as the more folk who tell him what he’s doing for us is miles away from ever being good enough the better…to think we used to slag that mob over the road with Mad Vlad and his hapless laddie, the Rodney Trotter stunt double. We've got our own sit-com playing out in front of us at Easter Road, and while it’s hilarious to everyone else it’s singularly unfunny to us.

[Northernhibee]

Yes, and it’s about time. I hope he has upset Gordon as the more folk who tell him what he’s doing for us is miles away from ever being good enough the better

That’s quite an interesting point, it feels that there are too many people at the club who are pally with each other and any workplace needs people who are able and empowered to say if decisions are wrong. I wonder how often this has been happening, and I wonder if Foley is going to be providing this.

[TrinityHFC]

Bill Foley has stated regular 3rd place for Hibs to start with, anybody think this current lot will get 3rd this season?Hard to tell until we see what our squad will look like. The keeper and defenders look decent and I think we will be more solid. They will also be more of a threat in the other box. In competitive games we’ve as many goals from centre half’s as we had the whole of last season. We certainly need more up front but really, Youan and Boyle are as good as anyone has. Campbell will get some from midfield and who knows how Vente will do in this team - hopefully better than last year. I expect us to add much better than we have. If not then I’ll begin to worry.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Is this an example of someone not accepting mediocrity?

Whilst I realise you’re probably having a bit of a laugh with this post, I’d suggest that’s exactly what is happening here.

Foley is watching two clowns who have repeatedly failed the club ignore suggestions given to them and continue to think they know best and he’s calling it out because he’s invested a lot of money and doesn’t want to continue the cycle of mediocrity we’re enduring.

[Paulie Walnuts]

That’s quite an interesting point, it feels that there are too many people at the club who are pally with each other and any workplace needs people who are able and empowered to say if decisions are wrong. I wonder how often this has been happening, and I wonder if Foley is going to be providing this.

Our very own website declares that the owner is ‘learning off the CEO’.

The worry for me is that between the Gordon’s and Kensell, we have 3 folk who will back each other to the absolute hilt regardless of whether they’re wrong (which they usually are when it comes to football matters) or not.

[Brightside]

Bill Foley has stated regular 3rd place for Hibs to start with, anybody think this current lot will get 3rd this season?

Where did he say that? I thought it was build to 3rd place. We are 10m behind hearts. A long way from getting 3rd.

[Gloucester Hibs]

Our very own website declares that the owner is ‘learning off the CEO’.The worry for me is that between the Gordon’s and Kensell, we have 3 folk who will back each other to the absolute hilt regardless of whether they’re wrong (which they usually are when it comes to football matters) or not.Yep. The only way Kensell leaves Hibs is either a change of ownership, or he leaves under his own steam. As he is never getting sacked by the Gordons. Hoping the latter might come to pass as was there not some time limit he wasn't permitted to work in English fitba again, which has now expired? Mind you, would take some offer to tempt him away from the cushty £350k a year gig he currently has.

[we are hibs]

Yep. The only way Kensell leaves Hibs is either a change of ownership, or he leaves under his own steam. As he is never getting sacked by the Gordons. Hoping the latter might come to pass as was there not some time limit he wasn't permitted to work in English fitba again, which has now expired? Mind you, would take some offer to tempt him away from the cushty £350k a year gig he currently has.I seen on LinkedIn that he's liking quite a few posts to do with Saudi football.. perhaps a role awaits him with his mate ex-hun Bisgrove who just went there.

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[Donegal Hibby]

I've no issues if Foley isn't happy about something though this should have been kept in house and discussed in the boardroom and not aired publicly . Foley has handled it extremely badly imo .

As minority shareholder , he knew that the final decisions were going to be made by owners of the club .

The" they aren't listening " might not actually be correct in they have listened but decided to go for Mackay and Gray due to them both having experience of the Scottish game rather than a couple of foreigners.

Folly's comments about wanting everyone with the same type of coaches, style of play and same type of players was also concerning.

He's not somebody or his group I'd particularly like to ever see get full control of the club .

[Mikey_1875]

Yep. The only way Kensell leaves Hibs is either a change of ownership, or he leaves under his own steam. As he is never getting sacked by the Gordons. Hoping the latter might come to pass as was there not some time limit he wasn't permitted to work in English fitba again, which has now expired? Mind you, would take some offer to tempt him away from the cushty £350k a year gig he currently has.There might be a scenario this season where IG’s resolve is tested on that theory. If it goes belly up this season it certainly won’t be David Gray GTF chants coming from the terraces, and not because his name doesn’t fit into the tune :greengrin

[matty_f]

Whilst I realise you’re probably having a bit of a laugh with this post, I’d suggest that’s exactly what is happening here.

Foley is watching two clowns who have repeatedly failed the club ignore suggestions given to them and continue to think they know best and he’s calling it out because he’s invested a lot of money and doesn’t want to continue the cycle of mediocrity we’re enduring.
I wasn’t really - John asked me it on the podcast last night and I thought it was a good question!

[Paulie Walnuts]

I wasn’t really - John asked me it on the podcast last night and I thought it was a good question!

It is - for all people joke about it, this most definitely is a show of ‘not accepting mediocrity’ imo :agree:

[Paulie Walnuts]

I've no issues if Foley isn't happy about something though this should have been kept in house and discussed in the boardroom and not aired publicly . Foley has handled it extremely badly imo .

As minority shareholder , he knew that the final decisions were going to be made by owners of the club .

The" they aren't listening " might not actually be correct in they have listened but decided to go for Mackay and Gray due to them both having experience of the Scottish game rather than a couple of foreigners.

Folly's comments about wanting everyone with the same type of coaches, style of play and same type of players was also concerning.

He's not somebody or his group I'd particularly like to ever see get full control of the club .

I’m going to hazard a guess it almost certainly was discussed in the board room.

[Northernhibee]

I’m actually slightly reassured we have someone with a notable amount of shares in the club who is clearly questioning how we do things.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I’m actually slightly reassured we have someone with a notable amount of shares in the club who is clearly questioning how we do things.

:agree:

If that causes friction then so be it. We need someone to do that as previously we’ve had a lot of patting each other on the back for failing. Look at McPhersons ridiculous interview where he couldn’t fathom why Kensell gets criticised. They’re absolutely deluded.

[Donegal Hibby]

I’m going to hazard a guess it almost certainly was discussed in the board room.

If it was then it should have remained there . It just hasn't helped matters at all by airing it publicly imo .

[B.H.F.C]

I’m actually slightly reassured we have someone with a notable amount of shares in the club who is clearly questioning how we do things.

No issue with that at all. The way it’s been done doesn’t help at all, especially when you already have a disgruntled support.

[JohnM1875]

If it was then it should have remained there . It just hasn't helped matters at all by airing it publicly imo .

Foley was asked a question and gave an honest answer as to what he thinks is wrong/holding Hibs back. A club that he has a large stake in. Wish other members of our board were as honest.

Folk are acting like he's released a public statement off his own back.

[The Modfather]

No issue with that at all. The way it’s been done doesn’t help at all, especially when you already have a disgruntled support.

Maybe doing it publicly is the only way to force Hibs to change how they do things. Maybe Foley has been trying to do it behind closed doors for the last 4 months but Hibs don't actually want to change anything, just take the money.

Or maybe it was just an honest answer to a question amongst a wider ranging interview. Though I’d suspect Foley was savvy enough to know what he was doing in answering that question.

[flash]

Really quite surprised that everybody is queueing up to welcome Foley's remarks because he is having a pop at the current regime whilst tacitly accepting the bit where he basically says every other club in the group is there to benefit Bournemouth.

Not to mention the fact that he keeps using Lorient as an example of a club doing things the right way.

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm willing to back Foley because i've watched the alterative rip this club apart since they arrived.

[Paulie Walnuts]

If it was then it should have remained there . It just hasn't helped matters at all by airing it publicly imo .

So basically, Foley should just accept that the two incompetents that repeatedly **** things up are going to ignore him and continue to think they know better despite all of the evidence showing they are clueless.

No thanks. I’d rather he called it out. Ian Gordon and Ben Kensell are long overdue being called out.

If it makes Ian Gordon and Ben Kensell think twice about continuing to think they are untouchable and don’t need anyone else’s help then it absolutely will have helped matters.

[Northernhibee]

Really quite surprised that everybody is queueing up to welcome Foley's remarks because he is having a pop at the current regime whilst tacitly accepting the bit where he basically says every other club in the group is there to benefit Bournemouth.

Not to mention the fact that he keeps using Lorient as an example of a club doing things the right way.

If anyone thought we’d get a lot of money and access to loan players without that being what Bournemouth get in return is incredibly naive IMO.

[ekhibee]

I've no issues if Foley isn't happy about something though this should have been kept in house and discussed in the boardroom and not aired publicly . Foley has handled it extremely badly imo .

As minority shareholder , he knew that the final decisions were going to be made by owners of the club .

The" they aren't listening " might not actually be correct in they have listened but decided to go for Mackay and Gray due to them both having experience of the Scottish game rather than a couple of foreigners.

Folly's comments about wanting everyone with the same type of coaches, style of play and same type of players was also concerning.

He's not somebody or his group I'd particularly like to ever see get full control of the club .

I'm a bit confused, so you don't think the Black Knights should have overall control but you think Kensell and the Gordon's should? Or do you think a 3rd party should get involved? Just a bit confused about what you were saying there.

[Silky]

Really quite surprised that everybody is queueing up to welcome Foley's remarks because he is having a pop at the current regime whilst tacitly accepting the bit where he basically says every other club in the group is there to benefit Bournemouth.

Not to mention the fact that he keeps using Lorient as an example of a club doing things the right way.

Yeah, I was thinking that as well. Ultimately, Hibs are Hibs. Not some imitation of Bournemouth, Lorient or whatever. We have our own identity, style etc and that should be maintained. We definitey shouldn't exist to beneft anyone other than Hibs. I don't for one minute think that the Gordon's have done everything righ, far from it, but I get the impression that Foley has been over ruled in the boardroom, can't take it and spat the dummy.

[CapitalGreen]

If it was then it should have remained there . It just hasn't helped matters at all by airing it publicly imo .

Surely it is too early to say whether it has helped anything.

[flash]

If anyone thought we’d get a lot of money and access to loan players without that being what Bournemouth get in return is incredibly naive IMO.

So basically we should accept whoever they want to throw our way regardless of whether they will be of use to us?

[superfurryhibby]

So basically, Foley should just accept that the two incompetents that repeatedly **** things up are going to ignore him and continue to think they know better despite all of the evidence showing they are clueless.

No thanks. I’d rather he called it out. Ian Gordon and Ben Kensell are long overdue being called out.

It makes you wonder why Foley thought it was a god idea to invest all that money to begin with ? They must surely have had discussions about the direction of the club, how the investment works in principle?

Admitting the Foley group was a surely an indicator that the Gordon's either desperately needed their cash and/or that they saw benefit from the association, beyond the multi millions received.

It's crossed my mind recently that the club is now valued at a level way beyond what local business consortium wanting to buy the current ownership out could ever pay.

The Gordon's have successfully (at least) trebled the value of the club, whilst at the same time transformed the footballing fortunes in a negative sense. That's an interesting conundrum.

[The Modfather]

So basically we should accept whoever they want to throw our way regardless of whether they will be of use to us?

Or alternatively just keep making our own decisions and appointments and hope that re-structure #3 (b-team being #1 and DOF #2) is the one that works and we won’t be here unpicking it after a year or two like the previous restructures.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Yeah, I was thinking that as well. Ultimately, Hibs are Hibs. Not some imitation of Bournemouth, Lorient or whatever. We have our own identity, style etc and that should be maintained. We definitey shouldn't exist to beneft anyone other than Hibs. I don't for one minute think that the Gordon's have done everything righ, far from it, but I get the impression that Foley has been over ruled in the boardroom, can't take it and spat the dummy.

I don’t think there’s any doubting that your last sentence is what happened. I fully suspect though that he’s justifiably spat the dummy knowing how incompetent Ian Gordon and Ben Kensell are when it comes to football matters. He must feel like he’s banging his head against a wall watching those two hopeless *******s declare a review of the football operations of the club, only to decide they’re going to ignore the review and appoint the chairman’s mate and a coach who’s already at the club, with no experience who isn’t even fully qualified into the two main roles in football operations.

[flash]

Or alternatively just keep making our own decisions and appointments and hope that re-structure #3 (b-team being #1 and DOF #2) is the one that works and we won’t be here unpicking it after a year or two like the previous restructures.

That's a separate issue to me. Nobody is suggesting that they are making a good job of the football team.

[hibeerealist]

Where did he say that? I thought it was build to 3rd place. We are 10m behind hearts. A long way from getting 3rd.From the very beginning Brightside, He stated that to get Hibs finishing 3rd on a regular basis should not be too expensive and is definitely the target.

[Northernhibee]

So basically we should accept whoever they want to throw our way regardless of whether they will be of use to us?

Or if that is something that could have come from the arrangement, maybe we shouldn’t have signed on the dotted line in the first place.

[ancient hibee]

I'm a bit confused, so you don't think the Black Knights should have overall control but you think Kensell and the Gordon's should? Or do you think a 3rd party should get involved? Just a bit confused about what you were saying there.Gordon’s are the majority shareholders. What they say goes-whether they’re right or wrong .

[Hibeesforever]

It makes you wonder why Foley thought it was a god idea to invest all that money to begin with ? They must surely have had discussions about the direction of the club, how the investment works in principle?

Admitting the Foley group was a surely an indicator that the Gordon's either desperately needed their cash and/or that they saw benefit from the association, beyond the multi millions received.

It's crossed my mind recently that the club is now valued at a level way beyond what local business consortium wanting to buy the current ownership out could ever pay.

The Gordon's have successfully (at least) trebled the value of the club, whilst at the same time transformed the footballing fortunes in a negative sense. That's an interesting conundrum.

The potential of the club is still there, that is the frustrating thing. The club being valued at £24 million, I find hard to work out with the current value of the squad being so poor..

[flash]

I don’t think there’s any doubting that your last sentence is what happened. I fully suspect though that he’s justifiably spat the dummy knowing how incompetent Ian Gordon and Ben Kensell are when it comes to football matters. He must feel like he’s banging his head against a wall watching those two hopeless *******s declare a review of the football operations of the club, only to decide they’re going to ignore the review and appoint the chairman’s mate and a coach who’s already at the club, with no experience who isn’t even fully qualified into the two main roles in football operations.

Malky McKay looks like a decent appointment where I am sitting and is the first positive sign that they are hopefully learning a bit.

Did they ignore the review? I don't remember hearing or reading about that.

[SHODAN]

I'm willing to back Foley because i've watched the alterative rip this club apart since they arrived.

That's where I am too tbh.

[hibeerealist]

Yeah, I was thinking that as well. Ultimately, Hibs are Hibs. Not some imitation of Bournemouth, Lorient or whatever. We have our own identity, style etc and that should be maintained. We definitey shouldn't exist to beneft anyone other than Hibs. I don't for one minute think that the Gordon's have done everything righ, far from it, but I get the impression that Foley has been over ruled in the boardroom, can't take it and spat the dummy.What's our style, serious question I am not being sarcy?The "style" of our play over the last 4 seasons has not been very successful.

[flash]

Or if that is something that could have come from the arrangement, maybe we shouldn’t have signed on the dotted line in the first place.

I think there's a pretty good argument to say we shouldn't have.

[WeAreHibs]

His comment about ‘not listening but listening now’ surely means that we might’ve been a mess but perhaps not as much now, if indeed they are listening.

Yeah, I wonder what "listening now" means!

[Paulie Walnuts]

Malky McKay looks like a decent appointment where I am sitting and is the first positive sign that they are hopefully learning a bit.

Did they ignore the review? I don't remember hearing or reading about that.

Forgetting the non footballing side of Malky Mackay, I think it’s nigh on impossible to say whether he’s decent or not at this stage, it’s far too early. He’s signed 3 players, we’ve yet to see them really be put to the test and our squad is miles short of where it needs to be.

We conducted a review, lead by BKFC and then a couple of months later it comes out that they’re not happy that they’re being ignored. I don’t think it’s a stretch to suggest that we’ve at least ignored significant parts of the review.

[Northernhibee]

I think there's a pretty good argument to say we shouldn't have.

Yep. If it was discussed and agreed that we would play and coach in a certain style and would accept players from the group that may not be of our level, then the question shouldn’t be “why should we accept that”, it should be “why the **** did we agree to that”.

The club needs to let us know what has been agreed.

[The Modfather]

That's a separate issue to me. Nobody is suggesting that they are making a good job of the football team.

So what’s the alternative? If Foley is suggesting duds and set ups that aren’t for the primary benefit of Hibs we reject them as better to continue to make a mess of things ourselves?

Our latest re-structure seems to have been done primarily with costing as little as possible the primary motivator. Hopefully the latest Hail Mary by the club works. Early indications don’t look any different, but time will tell.

[flash]

So what’s the alternative? If Foley is suggesting duds and set ups that aren’t for the primary benefit of Hibs we reject them as better to continue to make a mess of things ourselves?

Our latest re-structure seems to have been done primarily with costing as little as possible the primary motivator. Hopefully the latest Hail Mary by the club works. Early indications don’t look any different, but time will tell.

To be honest I think we are in trouble either way.

[hibeerealist]

Yeah, I was thinking that as well. Ultimately, Hibs are Hibs. Not some imitation of Bournemouth, Lorient or whatever. We have our own identity, style etc and that should be maintained. We definitey shouldn't exist to beneft anyone other than Hibs. I don't for one minute think that the Gordon's have done everything righ, far from it, but I get the impression that Foley has been over ruled in the boardroom, can't take it and spat the dummy.I don't see anything wrong or worrying about playing more like Bournemouth, they play decent football against teams who have much more money than them and are really over achieving, I think Hibs should try that for a change as all I see is underachieving.

[The Modfather]

To be honest I think we are in trouble either way.

Damned if we do damned if we don’t. In that scenario let’s give Foley a chance to make the changes he thinks are needed. We know what the alternative is and it’s more of the same flip flopping between strategies hoping to stumble upon something that stops the downward trajectory.

[Hibiza]

Yep. If it was discussed and agreed that we would play and coach in a certain style and would accept players from the group that may not be of our level, then the question shouldn’t be “why should we accept that”, it should be “why the **** did we agree to that”.

The club needs to let us know what has been agreed.

10/10

[Mikey_1875]

Yeah, I wonder what "listening now" means!

I have a theory that the “listening now” may have something to do with the infrastructure agreements we were told about. Mainly the indoor pitch. At the tail end of last season Kensell insinuated that this might be put on the back burner to fully focus on funding the playing squad. Maybe Foley is now getting his way with that which might be the reason why we haven’t been spending huge amounts this window so far.

McKay and Gray surely aren’t going anywhere so I’m not sure it leaves many other possibilities that the BK group would have influence on.

[flash]

Damned if we do damned if we don’t. In that scenario let’s give Foley a chance to make the changes he thinks are needed. We know what the alternative is and it’s more of the same flip flopping between strategies hoping to stumble upon something that stops the downward trajectory.

I get what you're saying but just feel really uncomfortable about Foley after his outburst.

[GreenPJ]

Yeah, I was thinking that as well. Ultimately, Hibs are Hibs. Not some imitation of Bournemouth, Lorient or whatever. We have our own identity, style etc and that should be maintained. We definitey shouldn't exist to beneft anyone other than Hibs. I don't for one minute think that the Gordon's have done everything righ, far from it, but I get the impression that Foley has been over ruled in the boardroom, can't take it and spat the dummy.

Agree 100%

[JohnM1875]

I don't see anything wrong or worrying about playing more like Bournemouth, they play decent football against teams who have much more money than them and are really over achieving, I think Hibs should try that for a change as all I see is underachieving.

Bournemouth were a great watch last season. Obviously have players well out our price range, but they play good football with a low wage outlay for their league, 15th out of the 20 apparently.

[Donegal Hibby]

Foley was asked a question and gave an honest answer as to what he thinks is wrong/holding Hibs back. A club that he has a large stake in. Wish other members of our board were as honest.

Folk are acting like he's released a public statement off his own back.

He's handled it badly IMO .

[RIP]

From the very beginning Brightside, He stated that to get Hibs finishing 3rd on a regular basis should not be too expensive and is definitely the target.

Foley said he was aiming for 3rd with Lorient. He's full of pish.

[Donegal Hibby]

So basically, Foley should just accept that the two incompetents that repeatedly **** things up are going to ignore him and continue to think they know better despite all of the evidence showing they are clueless.

No thanks. I’d rather he called it out. Ian Gordon and Ben Kensell are long overdue being called out.

If it makes Ian Gordon and Ben Kensell think twice about continuing to think they are untouchable and don’t need anyone else’s help then it absolutely will have helped matters.

If after as you say it was probably discussed at boardroom level and it was decided to appoint Mackay and Gray then yes he should accepted it .

He's a minority shareholder and doesn't call the shots though he already knew that was the way it was going to be when he got involved.

If he was so unhappy about things why did he not make a statement after the Elgin or queens park game ? Rather than wait after the Kelty one . In a I told you so manner.

He's already coming out with alot of s*** about getting Bournemouth further up the premier league and playing in the champions league and making everything great . Alot of Trump like bull**** getting talked.

At the end of the day , this has done our club absolutely no favours , other than cause more unrest going into the new season which i don't think we needed.

[Paulie Walnuts]

If after as you say it was probably discussed at boardroom level and it was decided to appoint Mackay and Gray then yes he should accepted it .

He's a minority shareholder and doesn't call the shots though he already knew that was the way it was going to be when he got involved.

If he was so unhappy about things why did he not make a statement after the Elgin or queens park game ? Rather than wait after the Kelty one . In a I told you so manner.

He's already coming out with alot of s*** about getting Bournemouth further up the premier league and playing in the champions league and making everything great . Alot of Trump like bull**** getting talked.

At the end of the day , this has done our club absolutely no favours , other than cause more unrest going into the new season which i don't think we needed.

I don’t think he should accept anything. Kensell and Gordon are perennial failures on the football side. If they appoint you to review football operations and then ignore that review and continue thinking they know what they’re doing when they evidently don’t then they should be called out for that.

He didn’t make a statement. He was asked by a reporter.

[Donegal Hibby]

Yeah, I was thinking that as well. Ultimately, Hibs are Hibs. Not some imitation of Bournemouth, Lorient or whatever. We have our own identity, style etc and that should be maintained. We definitey shouldn't exist to beneft anyone other than Hibs. I don't for one minute think that the Gordon's have done everything righ, far from it, but I get the impression that Foley has been over ruled in the boardroom, can't take it and spat the dummy.

Well said 👍

[Donegal Hibby]

He didn’t make a statement. He was asked by a reporter.

Which he shared his views that he wasn't entirely happy , was he happy before the Kelty game like when we didn't hear anything?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Which he shared his views that he wasn't entirely happy , was he happy before the Kelty game like when we didn't hear anything?

I would highly doubt he was happy at that point either. However there wasn’t a reporter asking him about it.

[JohnM1875]

Which he shared his views that he wasn't entirely happy , was he happy before the Kelty game like when we didn't hear anything?

You surely don't think it’s the Kelty result Foley isn't happy about?

[hibeerealist]

Foley said he was aiming for 3rd with Lorient. He's full of pish.I will reserve Judgement until/If that is proved, meantime I have little faith in the "other owners" at Hibs.You seem to be convinced already so we will see if your words carry any credibility soon enough.

[GreenPJ]

Foley brought in a coach to Bournemouth who had never played or managed in England. Its worked out well in the end but didn't start brilliantly. Imagine if his solution was to bring in a foreign coach who had no knowledge of Scottish football this place would have gone into meltdown.

This is a billionaire not used to not getting his own way and using the media to turn up the volume on the current owners/board with the fans. I do not see how anyone benefits from this approach - if he was really unhappy with Hibs and their approach then have the discussion with the board and if that doesn't happen then look to terminate the relationship - as things stand he can't get a controlling interest in the club and as a minority shareholder why should Hibs do what is best for the the Black Knights portfolio if its not perceived to be the best for Hibs.

[Ozyhibby]

If after as you say it was probably discussed at boardroom level and it was decided to appoint Mackay and Gray then yes he should accepted it .

He's a minority shareholder and doesn't call the shots though he already knew that was the way it was going to be when he got involved.

If he was so unhappy about things why did he not make a statement after the Elgin or queens park game ? Rather than wait after the Kelty one . In a I told you so manner.

He's already coming out with alot of s*** about getting Bournemouth further up the premier league and playing in the champions league and making everything great . Alot of Trump like bull**** getting talked.

At the end of the day , this has done our club absolutely no favours , other than cause more unrest going into the new season which i don't think we needed.

He did take the Vegas Golden Knights to the Stanley Cup in Ice Hockey. There is not a lot of water in Vegas, never mind ice. That’s a significant achievement.
I think he should be listened to especially when he’s writing big cheques.
Ian Gordon and Ben Kensall are proven failures.


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[Ozyhibby]

Foley brought in a coach to Bournemouth who had never played or managed in England. Its worked out well in the end but didn't start brilliantly. Imagine if his solution was to bring in a foreign coach who had no knowledge of Scottish football this place would have gone into meltdown.

This is a billionaire not used to not getting his own way and using the media to turn up the volume on the current owners/board with the fans. I do not see how anyone benefits from this approach - if he was really unhappy with Hibs and their approach then have the discussion with the board and if that doesn't happen then look to terminate the relationship - as things stand he can't get a controlling interest in the club and as a minority shareholder why should Hibs do what is best for the the Black Knights portfolio if its not perceived to be the best for Hibs.

There’s the ‘knowledge of Scottish football’ thing again. [emoji23]
How much knowledge did Postecoglu have?


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[Seafield Scott]

While this discussion of “who’s to blame for our predicament “ resembles ferrets fighting in a sack, maybe we should step back and consider the elephant in the room.
I am not happy with the leadership, decisions and results of the current owners. I am increasingly concerned about the BK involvement and where we, as a club, sit within this framework and the fact that we, as supporters, have no say or meaningful input into our club. We are now at the mercy of others who, quite frankly, don’t really give two hoots about our history & love for the club. As I increasingly see it - we only have ourselves to blame.
STF gave us the chance to own our beloved club through HSL and we didn’t back it. I include myself very much as being guilty because I didn’t contribute. Look at Motherwell - fan owned, but not fan run, have just booted out a similar pyramid proposal with the promise of additional investment. They were not hoodwinked into accepting the deal cos all they saw was £ signs.

On reflection- I would rather we lived within our means, have experienced executives that we would help appoint run the club and have realistic expectations regards football success. At least we would have a more stable & sustainable club for the future

[NC1875]

Which he shared his views that he wasn't entirely happy , was he happy before the Kelty game like when we didn't hear anything?

We didnt hear anything because no one asked him.

He was quite rightly asked about a team he’s invested 6million pounds into being beaten by a team playing in the lowland league just a few years ago.

He gave an honest answer.

I’d say it’s a good thing. It shows the majority of fans aren’t the only ones that think IG and Kensell don’t know what they’re doing. And he will protect his investment by trying to get them to change.

Nothing really bad about it apart from a little negative publicity.

[Ozyhibby]

You surely don't think it’s the Kelty result Foley isn't happy about?

I’ve heard he’s always hated them.[emoji35]


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[Hibees1973]

Malky McKay looks like a decent appointment where I am sitting and is the first positive sign that they are hopefully learning a bit.

Did they ignore the review? I don't remember hearing or reading about that.
Time will tell with regards Mackay. Mackay said a couple of weeks ago that as owner Ian Gordon has every right to be involved in the running of the club. This is clearly a red flag. Really don't know what Ian Gordon is qualified to do at the club other than select the wines for hospitality. So what is Ian Gordon involved in, I've heard he still plays a role in recruitment. The common thread here is that the key guys at the club appear to be protecting each other which is concerning. David Gray had been incredibly naive in taking the job but cannot be criticised as it may be the only chance he would get. I will be amazed if this lot get us into the top 4 and visits to Hampden in the near future.

[Onceinawhile]

He did take the Vegas Golden Knights to the Stanley Cup in Ice Hockey. There is not a lot of water in Vegas, never mind ice. That’s a significant achievement. I think he should be listened to especially when he’s writing big cheques. Ian Gordon and Ben Kensall are proven failures. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkHe also lost a final to an aging, not good enough Washington Capitals team.He had the pick of just about all players in the league in the expansion draft.The entire organisation is derided by fans of other franchises for their continued chicanery with the LTIR and the wage cap.Although VGK has done well, it's not all flowers over there either, they were pretty poor in this year's playoffs too.

[Alfred E Newman]

Foley brought in a coach to Bournemouth who had never played or managed in England. Its worked out well in the end but didn't start brilliantly. Imagine if his solution was to bring in a foreign coach who had no knowledge of Scottish football this place would have gone into meltdown.

This is a billionaire not used to not getting his own way and using the media to turn up the volume on the current owners/board with the fans. I do not see how anyone benefits from this approach - if he was really unhappy with Hibs and their approach then have the discussion with the board and if that doesn't happen then look to terminate the relationship - as things stand he can't get a controlling interest in the club and as a minority shareholder why should Hibs do what is best for the the Black Knights portfolio if its not perceived to be the best for Hibs.

He didn't become a billionaire by giving away money for nothing in return. After investing £6m it's not surprising that they want to have some say in the running of the club.

[A Hi-Bee]

Which he shared his views that he wasn't entirely happy , was he happy before the Kelty game like when we didn't hear anything?It was a bbc reporter in Carlifornia who was speaking to him, don't think they would even know who hertz were be it Kelty or the mini huns.

[GreenPJ]

There’s the ‘knowledge of Scottish football’ thing again. [emoji23]
How much knowledge did Postecoglu have?


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I agree, however, are you denying that the vast majority of commentary from fans was that we needed someone at coaching level and operationally who understood Scottish football?