Malky McKay

[Greenbeard]

Greenbeard I don’t understand your question to be honest or the point you’re trying to make. I’m not on the BBC. Reflection is something everyone should engage in I’m sure you would agree.
Ok, I am now reflecting on the success or otherwise of my intended sarcasm which was aimed at B7 not you, viz. B7 being led/influenced by someone as erudite as you and making such a statement against MM's appointment when the group's own actions - current and repeated weekly - are deserving of far more criticism.

[CapitalGreen]

Good post Stubbsy.

You were giddy with excitement at the potential return of convicted racist Leigh Griffiths a few years ago. Do your morals get left at the door if someone has scored a few goals against Hearts?

[Since452]

I'm really struggling to understand why a 42 year old would need a training course to understand that's it not OK to call Asian people that ch word in 2014.

I'd love to hear how that course goes.

It's a bit like drink drivers having to do a drink driving awareness course. It's part of their rehabilitation process. They knew it wasn't OK to get behind the wheel of a car blootered but they still did it. People make mistakes, some really bad but if they learn from it, and don't do it again then they deserve to get on with their lives.

[Unseen work]

Mind when Yogi said Benji had been training in the mountains with the Taliban with a big daft grin on his face?

The footage of Hearts players singing " Jose's on the water" after they won the 98 SC.

That's Malky's generation.

I think that’s part of it, I also think some if it is him texting his mate thinking he’s funny and that it would never see the public eye, not an out and out hatred.

I’m not saying it makes it right or condoning it in anyway, but 10 messages out of 10,000 to his mate.

I’d hate to see what some people have on their phone as a result of being in numerous different WhatsApp groups etc.

I see the Cardiff player in question was asked about it and his agent said

‘ Surely, we have checked all reports from the UK regarding the manager Mackay and his right hand man Iain Moody related with our player Kim Bo-Kyung.

‘ Regardless Mackay had mentioned that kind of Racist words by text, we never received any unfair treatments from him and Cardiff City football club at all.

'When Kim firstly joined Cardiff in 2012 summer, just after London Olympic, Mackay had given a lot of considerations for the player and our staffs.

'Kim couldn’t understand English well at that time, and our staff could be always with the player and support him very well, at all home, away games, locker room and all of team meetings, even it was not allowed to anyone. Also, Mackay had spent a lot of times with Kim for his adaptation and match performances always.

'Mackay has very strong character, as everyone knows, and he could say worst words on the pitch, but it was just a WORD, and he always has shown warmest hearts and faith to the player and all of our agency staffs as well.’

He also seems to have signed multiple different races and ethnicities at Ross County and appears to have always had a really good relationship with them.

[hibsbollah]

You were giddy with excitement at the potential return of convicted racist Leigh Griffiths a few years ago. Do your morals get left at the door if someone has scored a few goals against Hearts?

I think you may be thinking of another poster. Haymaker used to do a :hyper: smiley when anything about Leigh’s return came up, which became a joke anytime his name was mentioned. I never particularly wanted him back.

[Superfurry72]

There's a balance to be struck here and deriding all views that are not pleased with his appointment as faux outrage is unreasonable. If you or someone in your family or friends is Chinese, or gay or a woman who has been on the receiving end of sexism or worse - and has suffered in consequence - it would be entirely understandable if your reaction wasn't wildly enthusiastic. That wouldn't be faux outrage it would much more likely be a genuine and reasonable emotional reaction based on what you yourself have experienced or witnessed.

Treating those responses in that way doesn't actually help MM in what he does next at Hibs. He's taken positive action to address his behaviour, 'owned' it publicly and tried to change. I am uncomfortable with his appointment for perfectly good reasons but I also understand the importance of redemption and rehabilitation which is why my view is to give him a chance to do a good job and not let us down. That others don't feel that way is not unreasonable and their views shouldn't be blanket dismissed.

Completely agree with the point regarding 'faux outrage'. It's a perfectly legitimate and understandable reaction for people to be upset.

I'm also growing increasingly uncomfortable with the amount of people on here who are inferring they or someone they know have said unsavoury stuff on their WhatsApp groups or wherever it may be, and using that as a basis to say we shouldn't be upset at Mackay's appointment. If it's anything like what he said in the offending messages that were made public then it's simply unacceptable, isn't it?

[Hibbyradge]

Did anyone on here ever sing "the Skacel song"?

Or Looky Looky Man?

[TheMentalHibees]

Absolute pish.

As I posted yesterday, one of the racist terms he used could be applied to my family. I know for a fact I’m not the only person in that boat he’s posted since he was appointed. If I heard someone saying these things in real life, I’d want nothing to do with them, ever, regardless of apologies or training courses.

Now I fully understand the point about the drink driving etc. Rightly or wrongly, it doesn’t evoke the same sense of feeling within me as my family haven’t been impacted by it. They’ve absolutely been impacted by racism though, hence why I feel so strongly about it.

If it was a throw away comment about ‘going for a chinky’ or something, I’d have more sympathy. They weren’t though.

I don’t want the guy anywhere near our club. I’ve no idea of your race, religion, sexuality etc but I’d be willing to bet there’s a good few straight, white, non religious males who have been on here telling everybody that the reaction to the comments are a complete overreaction. Trust me, they don’t get to choose what the reaction should be.

Finally a sensible post. A real reflection of wider society’s attitude towards these issues that it took 700 replies for someone to say it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Unseen work]

Did anyone on here ever sing "the Skacel song"?

Or Looky Looky Man?

The Skacel song is the one that came to my mind. I’m sure no one in block 7 has ever sung that song.

[Crazyhorse]

Ok, I am now reflecting on the success or otherwise of my intended sarcasm which was aimed at B7 not you, viz. B7 being led/influenced by someone as erudite as you and making such a statement against MM's appointment when the group's own actions - current and repeated weekly - are deserving of far more criticism.

👍
I’m not sure what to make of the MM appointment. It’s caught me by surprise.

[Superfurry72]

I'm really struggling to understand why a 42 year old would need a training course to understand that's it not OK to call Asian people that ch word in 2014.

I'd love to hear how that course goes.

I don't get that either. Someone that age, who had been involved with football for years – one of the most multi-cultural environments you could be a part of, certainly in the 21st century. What we're being told is it needed him to be caught sending him abhorrent messages to his mate for him to realise what he was saying was wrong, and having to go on a course so he could work out how not to be a bigot. And the messages weren't even poor-taste jokes that could possibly be forgiven as misguided, they were flat out racist, misogynist b******t.

[truehibernian]

Probably because he grew up in the 70s, with all the parental and environmental attitudes that were around at the time. Childhood conditioning is a powerful thing. Allying that with the macho culture that existed in football when he played, I'm not all that surprised.

I’ll make somewhat of a confession as I grew up in that era and went on to work in a male dominated profession where those around me (peers) were languishing in the “Mind Your Language” and Bernard Manning-esque type “humour”.

The canteen culture was grim back then - some very nasty, racist and homophobic elements to conversation which I found incredibly uncomfortable and unnecessary as I’d never been brought up to disrespect anyone because of differences, yet rather than challenge them, report it, or face it head on, I laughed (uncomfortably) amongst them and/or was thereby complicit in my silence for fear of being singled out by doing nothing. I was a young lad amongst “men”.

A group of us were asked to attend an LGBT awareness course (back in the late 90’s). Certain individuals were disgusted they were being made to attend, I remained quiet and again didn’t challenge some of the snide horrible remarks they made about having to go. Anyway, I attended and to this day it was the most innovative, interesting and thought provoking course I’ve ever been on, so much so I’ve now got life long friends in the LGBT community and went on to do numerous presentations, talks, training, and advice sessions for those in that community and beyond.

Looking back I can now say I was homophobic, not through my own actions taken or words said, but by my inaction and complicity and silence and being afraid to challenge their behaviour for fear of being targeted myself. That course not only opened my eyes and overall thinking, it made me a better man and human being. And, as I said, I’ve went on to promote diversity, equality, and respect across all areas of protected characteristics. That course alone and the people delivering it changed me as a person for the positive.

So, if he’s learned from it, reflected on his terrible behaviour, and went on courses (and done follow up work and further reflection) to learn and more importantly change for the better, I’m for giving him every chance to succeed - rather than focus solely on his past behaviour, perhaps there’s also opportunities for him to promote equality and diversity both within the club and out with it publicly, making Hibs a positive and welcoming environment.

[Bobby's Cinema]

Difficult to articulate my feeling on this but,

I understand the view that if someone said that to you in the street you would always think they were an idiot and that would never change. 99% of people would struggle to get their head around talking like that.

I do think the way he has conducted himself since then counts for a lot. He must bitterly regret the way he behaved and the how he got himself to that point - and not just from a selfish perspective. Must wish he could turn back the clock pretty much every day but can't. Can only imagine what a painful lesson it has been to learn. And yes not as painful as the discrimination people suffer at the hands of views like those in the texts.

Finally I am absolutely convinced that MM will not treat anyone any differently in the workplace while employed at Hibernian FC.

[neil7908]

Completely agree with the point regarding 'faux outrage'. It's a perfectly legitimate and understandable reaction for people to be upset.

I'm also growing increasingly uncomfortable with the amount of people on here who are inferring they or someone they know have said unsavoury stuff on their WhatsApp groups or wherever it may be, and using that as a basis to say we shouldn't be upset at Mackay's appointment. If it's anything like what he said in the offending messages that were made public then it's simply unacceptable, isn't it?

Yup. A lot of folk telling us they are in racist WhatsApp groups without directly saying it. I'm sure it's all just harmless banter and lockeroom talk though...

[Just_Jimmy]

Whilst I'm not down playing the character concerns. It's clearly an issue, my concern is simply that he's not qualified for the role.

Folk can say it's a great appointment over and over all they want, that's bollocks.

Show me where on his CV is shows him as qualified to be in charge of all football operations at a club like Hibs?


Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

[Lester B]

Completely agree with the point regarding 'faux outrage'. It's a perfectly legitimate and understandable reaction for people to be upset.

I'm also growing increasingly uncomfortable with the amount of people on here who are inferring they or someone they know have said unsavoury stuff on their WhatsApp groups or wherever it may be, and using that as a basis to say we shouldn't be upset at Mackay's appointment. If it's anything like what he said in the offending messages that were made public then it's simply unacceptable, isn't it?

Completely agree with that particularly the number of allusions to WhatsApp messages. No one has ever sent me something that inappropriate. It is unacceptable and, to my mind, indefensible.

[bingo70]

No, it’s really not. Being racist, misogynistic etc is a really toxic, abusive way to behave.

Again, I’ve no idea what your background is, but I fully suspect there would be things that you’d be completely unwilling to accept an apology for from someone. This is one for me. And the idea that racism is something that people from minorities are just ‘unhappy with’ is the understatement of the century. It’s something which impacts their lives, negatively, pretty much every day

I’m also not suggesting he shouldn’t be allowed to live some form of life. I’m just very, very disappointed that it’s at our club that he’ll be working.

You talk about the people in your life affected by racism or sexist behaviour, do you not have any friends or family that have made a mistake and benefited from a second chance?

If we were to go through over 10,000 messages in your phone, we wouldn’t find any that would offend someone?

[Lester B]

Did anyone on here ever sing "the Skacel song"?

Or Looky Looky Man?

I didn’t. But more interested in the replies of others

[hibsbollah]

I’ll make somewhat of a confession as I grew up in that era and went on to work in a male dominated profession where those around me (peers) were languishing in the “Mind Your Language” and Bernard Manning-esque type “humour”.

The canteen culture was grim back then - some very nasty, racist and homophobic elements to conversation which I found incredibly uncomfortable and unnecessary as I’d never been brought up to disrespect anyone because of differences, yet rather than challenge them, report it, or face it head on, I laughed (uncomfortably) amongst them and/or was thereby complicit in my silence for fear of being singled out by doing nothing. I was a young lad amongst “men”.

A group of us were asked to attend an LGBT awareness course (back in the late 90’s). Certain individuals were disgusted they were being made to attend, I remained quiet and again didn’t challenge some of the snide horrible remarks they made about having to go. Anyway, I attended and to this day it was the most innovative, interesting and thought provoking course I’ve ever been on, so much so I’ve now got life long friends in the LGBT community and went on to do numerous presentations, talks, training, and advice sessions for those in that community and beyond.

Looking back I can now say I was homophobic, not through my own actions taken or words said, but by my inaction and complicity and silence and being afraid to challenge their behaviour for fear of being targeted myself. That course not only opened my eyes and overall thinking, it made me a better man and human being. And, as I said, I’ve went on to promote diversity, equality, and respect across all areas of protected characteristics. That course alone and the people delivering it changed me as a person for the positive.

So, if he’s learned from it, reflected on his terrible behaviour, and went on courses (and done follow up work and further reflection) to learn and more importantly change for the better, I’m for giving him every chance to succeed - rather than focus solely on his past behaviour, perhaps there’s also opportunities for him to promote equality and diversity both within the club and out with it publicly, making Hibs a positive and welcoming environment.

That raises sone good points TH, and is the best counter-argument to my position that ive read so far. Im going to give that a lot of thought :aok:

[Hibbyradge]

I remember two occasions, years ago, when I was on the end of some very hurtful personal remarks.

I'm not going to go into detail, but suffice to say, I have had nothing to do with one of them since.

However, the other guy apologised profusely to me and went out of his way to reassure me that he didn't really believe his remarks, but they had been as a result of anger and his own stress.

Although I had been insulted, and it had stung, I accepted his apology and we have remained friends.

It would have been wrong of me not to accept his genuine apologies and continue to hold a grudge years later.

McKay has apologised for the texts, has gone out of his way to show his remorse and has taken all the steps available to him in order to learn from the mistakes he made 10 years ago.

But for some people, if you sh*g one sheep...

[marinello59]

I’ll make somewhat of a confession as I grew up in that era and went on to work in a male dominated profession where those around me (peers) were languishing in the “Mind Your Language” and Bernard Manning-esque type “humour”.

The canteen culture was grim back then - some very nasty, racist and homophobic elements to conversation which I found incredibly uncomfortable and unnecessary as I’d never been brought up to disrespect anyone because of differences, yet rather than challenge them, report it, or face it head on, I laughed (uncomfortably) amongst them and/or was thereby complicit in my silence for fear of being singled out by doing nothing. I was a young lad amongst “men”.

A group of us were asked to attend an LGBT awareness course (back in the late 90’s). Certain individuals were disgusted they were being made to attend, I remained quiet and again didn’t challenge some of the snide horrible remarks they made about having to go. Anyway, I attended and to this day it was the most innovative, interesting and thought provoking course I’ve ever been on, so much so I’ve now got life long friends in the LGBT community and went on to do numerous presentations, talks, training, and advice sessions for those in that community and beyond.

Looking back I can now say I was homophobic, not through my own actions taken or words said, but by my inaction and complicity and silence and being afraid to challenge their behaviour for fear of being targeted myself. That course not only opened my eyes and overall thinking, it made me a better man and human being. And, as I said, I’ve went on to promote diversity, equality, and respect across all areas of protected characteristics. That course alone and the people delivering it changed me as a person for the positive.

So, if he’s learned from it, reflected on his terrible behaviour, and went on courses (and done follow up work and further reflection) to learn and more importantly change for the better, I’m for giving him every chance to succeed - rather than focus solely on his past behaviour, perhaps there’s also opportunities for him to promote equality and diversity both within the club and out with it publicly, making Hibs a positive and welcoming environment.

:top marks

[Pretty Boy]

Does it matter really matter why he needed to take the course? Perhaps from a psychology point of view it does if we really want to understand the roots of his behaviour. From a societal point of view surely the more important thing is he did take the course though?. It was voluntarily too, in all the reports I can find his fellow 'joker' Moody never engaged in the same way.

It seems to keep coming back to the same point; people insisting they really, really do believe in rehabilitation on one had but then flat out refusing to believe MM has been rehabilitated or deserves a 2nd chance on the other. If there was hard evidence he still holds unsavoury views or had reoffended then fair enough but in lieu of that I'm inclined to take him at his word and judge him on his behaviour since.

There's an old adage that people engaging in bad behaviour never really want to stop until they get caught. Many do take that chance to better themselves when it is presented though. As one example about 22% of those convicted of criminal offences go on to reoffend, so the vast majority take their punishment, learn from it and keep their noses clean going forward (or they just get better at not getting caught:greengrin).

I would hate to be in a situation in which my entire character was judged on the worst thing I had ever said or done. It would create a skewed picture of who I am. I think being honest everyone would be the same because chances are we have all done or said something we aren't proud of in the past, most people are just fortunate it doesn't end up splashed across the papers.

[NC1875]

Completely agree with the point regarding 'faux outrage'. It's a perfectly legitimate and understandable reaction for people to be upset.

I'm also growing increasingly uncomfortable with the amount of people on here who are inferring they or someone they know have said unsavoury stuff on their WhatsApp groups or wherever it may be, and using that as a basis to say we shouldn't be upset at Mackay's appointment. If it's anything like what he said in the offending messages that were made public then it's simply unacceptable, isn't it?

Mackay has admitted they were unacceptable.

And he’s taken the time to aplogise and attend courses and workshops regarding it.

He’s been praised for this by Racism charities.

He’s been praised by the agent/player insulted in one of the texts for the way he treated him.

He’s worked without any further issue since.

I assume you think no one should be given a second chance, no matter the crime ? Or is it just people who send nasty text messages ?

[TrinityHFC]

Completely agree with that particularly the number of allusions to WhatsApp messages. No one has ever sent me something that inappropriate. It is unacceptable and, to my mind, indefensible.

Good for you. Most of us are in the real world though. It could be WhatsApp, chats in the pub, watching and laughing at comedy that is ‘inappropriate’.

How people actually live their lives and things that people might find amusing in other circumstances are different.

Long story for another day but I’ve been in the social company of two Popes in my time. I can assure you that they were real people too and were able to laugh at some inappropriate chat.

[Tyler Durden]

Whilst I'm not down playing the character concerns. It's clearly an issue, my concern is simply that he's not qualified for the role.

Folk can say it's a great appointment over and over all they want, that's bollocks.

Show me where on his CV is shows him as qualified to be in charge of all football operations at a club like Hibs?


Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

Ok. Dougie Freedman is one of the most successful and sought after Sporting Directors down south. Prior to that he was mainly a manager. Davie Weir is now Sporting Director at Brighton - what was on his CV?

The pathway for these types of roles in the UK often involves ex players or managers. Mackay's role as Performance Director at the SFA makes him more qualified that most IMO.

We weren't necessarily going to get someone who has been a Sporting Director at a bigger club than Hibs for 3-5 years. There aren't many in Scotland full stop.

[andyf5]

Your quite correct to point out that he wasn’t found guilty in a court of law of racism so that was the wrong word to use however I think it’s irrefutable that he made racist , anti-Semitic and homophobic comments. The fact that he wasn’t charged in a court of law for making them doesn’t change my concerns over his appointment.

What is the concern? Anti-racism groups agree that he is innocent of wrongdoing, these were private messages hacked and he has moved on from something that happened 10 years ago.

[Ronniekirk]

I’ll make somewhat of a confession as I grew up in that era and went on to work in a male dominated profession where those around me (peers) were languishing in the “Mind Your Language” and Bernard Manning-esque type “humour”.

The canteen culture was grim back then - some very nasty, racist and homophobic elements to conversation which I found incredibly uncomfortable and unnecessary as I’d never been brought up to disrespect anyone because of differences, yet rather than challenge them, report it, or face it head on, I laughed (uncomfortably) amongst them and/or was thereby complicit in my silence for fear of being singled out by doing nothing. I was a young lad amongst “men”.

A group of us were asked to attend an LGBT awareness course (back in the late 90’s). Certain individuals were disgusted they were being made to attend, I remained quiet and again didn’t challenge some of the snide horrible remarks they made about having to go. Anyway, I attended and to this day it was the most innovative, interesting and thought provoking course I’ve ever been on, so much so I’ve now got life long friends in the LGBT community and went on to do numerous presentations, talks, training, and advice sessions for those in that community and beyond.

Looking back I can now say I was homophobic, not through my own actions taken or words said, but by my inaction and complicity and silence and being afraid to challenge their behaviour for fear of being targeted myself. That course not only opened my eyes and overall thinking, it made me a better man and human being. And, as I said, I’ve went on to promote diversity, equality, and respect across all areas of protected characteristics. That course alone and the people delivering it changed me as a person for the positive.

So, if he’s learned from it, reflected on his terrible behaviour, and went on courses (and done follow up work and further reflection) to learn and more importantly change for the better, I’m for giving him every chance to succeed - rather than focus solely on his past behaviour, perhaps there’s also opportunities for him to promote equality and diversity both within the club and out with it publicly, making Hibs a positive and welcoming environment.
Well said mate . I was a teenager in the 70s brought up in a working class family Stuff like this was rife but you grow up develop as a person and move on
I was also in the children’s heating system and juvenile courts I could of been sent to list D School as some of my mates were but the panel decided to give me a second chance and I took it
If any evidence is out there that he hasn’t changed for the better than that’s different matter , but anything I have read suggests the opposite

[TrinityHFC]

What is the concern? Anti-racism groups agree that he is innocent of wrongdoing, these were private messages hacked and he has moved on from something that happened 10 years ago.

Yeah that’s the thing. He has never, as far as I’m aware exhibited any behaviours that could be described as prejudicial and has actually got a decent amount of praise for what he does to include everybody.

Do we think he is actually going to abuse anyone at the club or treat them in a discriminatory way? Why would he start that now? I don’t see how anyone can be impacted in an ongoing way on this.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Good for you. Most of us are in the real world though. It could be WhatsApp, chats in the pub, watching and laughing at comedy that is ‘inappropriate’.

How people actually live their lives and things that people might find amusing in other circumstances are different.

Long story for another day but I’ve been in the social company of two Popes in my time. I can assure you that they were real people too and were able to laugh at some inappropriate chat.

To be fair the fact you’ve been in the company of two popes sounds like the most interesting part of this thread :greengrin

[MWHIBBIES]

The idea that you must be utterly perfect to disagree with this appointment or think he's a bit of a knob is totally mental. You can think Mackay is an idiot without disowning your granny who once called the boy in the shop coloured. I am willing to give him a chance, as he has clearly put in the work to educate himself. Others aren't. Both opinions are just fine.

[Paulie Walnuts]

The idea that you must be utterly perfect to disagree with this appointment or think he's a bit of a knob is totally mental. You can think Mackay is an idiot without disowning your granny who once called the boy in the shop coloured. I am willing to give him a chance, as he has clearly put in the work to educate himself. Others aren't. Both opinions are just fine.

Pretty much where I am. I have no issue with people willing to give him a chance. I personally don’t want him here and I’m disappointed he is. I’d rather he was away working at another club. That’s my opinion, others have there’s. I’ve no issue with either.

Think most of the conversations are going round in circles now but the one thing I’d strongly disagree with is the idea that some folk are being snowflakes with regards to racism, sexism etc. If you’ve got no experience of these sort of things then you’ve got absolutely no business telling people who have that they’re overreacting.

[greenpaper55]

The gift of forgiveness is one of the best gifts in life you can have.

[hibby rae]

Not that I expect it to make any difference, I've emailed the club to register my disgust at yesterday's appointment. If anyone would want to do the same, feel free to PM me and I can share the email.

[500miles]

The idea that you must be utterly perfect to disagree with this appointment or think he's a bit of a knob is totally mental. You can think Mackay is an idiot without disowning your granny who once called the boy in the shop coloured. I am willing to give him a chance, as he has clearly put in the work to educate himself. Others aren't. Both opinions are just fine.
Both opinions are fine.

Hounding him out of employment isn't the same as having an opinion though.

[MKHIBEE]

What is the concern? Anti-racism groups agree that he is innocent of wrongdoing, these were private messages hacked and he has moved on from something that happened 10 years ago.
Most victims of racism aren’t able to “ move on”

[hibee_nation]

Good for you. Most of us are in the real world though. It could be WhatsApp, chats in the pub, watching and laughing at comedy that is ‘inappropriate’.

How people actually live their lives and things that people might find amusing in other circumstances are different.

Long story for another day but I’ve been in the social company of two Popes in my time. I can assure you that they were real people too and were able to laugh at some inappropriate chat.


The Popes have probably kept quiet past sickening crimes against kids that would make Malky look like a Saint by comparison.

[flash]

Not that I expect it to make any difference, I've emailed the club to register my disgust at yesterday's appointment. If anyone would want to do the same, feel free to PM me and I can share the email.

I have managed to get my hands on the old "Down with this sort of thing" banner famously seen on Father Ted back in the day so count me in.

[MWHIBBIES]

Both opinions are fine.

Hounding him out of employment isn't the same as having an opinion though.

He's not going to be hounded out, so I wouldn't worry.

[MWHIBBIES]

The Popes have probably kept quiet past sickening crimes against kids that would make Malky look like a Saint by comparison.

:faf:

Yeah, not sure the pope is the best example.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Not that I expect it to make any difference, I've emailed the club to register my disgust at yesterday's appointment. If anyone would want to do the same, feel free to PM me and I can share the email.

Have you never said anything inappropriate in your life? Have you disowned any family members for calling the corner shop the P*kis or pulled up a friend for saying he’s getting a ch*nky for dinner?

I wish I was absolutely squeaky clean and perfect.

[500miles]

He's not going to be hounded out, so I wouldn't worry.

I hope not, but that's the purpose of the angry emails and "protests", isn't it?

[MWHIBBIES]

Have you never said anything inappropriate in your life? Have you disowned any family members for calling the corner shop the P*kis or pulled up a friend for saying he’s getting a ch*nky for dinner?

I wish I was absolutely squeaky clean and perfect.

Do you need to be utterly perfect to be critical of anyone?

Can you let me know, because my apprentice is having a mare today, but as I'm no perfect electrician, I should probably just leave him to kill someone.

[hibby rae]

Have you never said anything inappropriate in your life? Have you disowned any family members for calling the corner shop the P*kis or pulled up a friend for saying he’s getting a ch*nky for dinner?

I wish I was absolutely squeaky clean and perfect.

It wasn't just inappropriate though, and my family never used that sort of language. Way to project.

[MWHIBBIES]

I hope not, but that's the purpose of the angry emails and "protests", isn't it?

There will be **** all. We aren't protesting owners that are utterly hopeless and tanking us on the pitch, we aren't protesting this.

[Sioux]

Experience is doing something. It is important but doing something well for extended periods is what should get you a job like Sporting Director at Hibs. Arguably you would have to do something very well to mitigate the baggage MM comes with. For a good few of us we simply can't see the doing well bit never mind anything to mitigate the PR side

There was no evidence of Mowbray and Stubbs doing well before they were appointed.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Do you need to be utterly perfect to be critical of anyone?

Can you let me know, because my apprentice is having a mare today, but as I'm no perfect electrician, I should probably just leave him to kill someone.

You don’t need to be. I’ve said some stupid things in the past that I’ve learned from, and I wouldn’t take too kindly to someone emailing my employer registering their disgust that I’m on their payroll because I forwarded a meme ten years ago or said something offensive.

If your apprentice is having a mare, I’d perhaps intervene for his and everyone else’s safety so he doesn’t blow up a building. Perhaps be constructive in your criticism and teach him right from wrong. Almost like rehabilitation to be honest.

[babahibs]

Absolute pish.

As I posted yesterday, one of the racist terms he used could be applied to my family. I know for a fact I’m not the only person in that boat he’s posted since he was appointed. If I heard someone saying these things in real life, I’d want nothing to do with them, ever, regardless of apologies or training courses.

Now I fully understand the point about the drink driving etc. Rightly or wrongly, it doesn’t evoke the same sense of feeling within me as my family haven’t been impacted by it. They’ve absolutely been impacted by racism though, hence why I feel so strongly about it.

If it was a throw away comment about ‘going for a chinky’ or something, I’d have more sympathy. They weren’t though.

I don’t want the guy anywhere near our club. I’ve no idea of your race, religion, sexuality etc but I’d be willing to bet there’s a good few straight, white, non religious males who have been on here telling everybody that the reaction to the comments are a complete overreaction. Trust me, they don’t get to choose what the reaction should be.

Great post, it's very personal to me too.

[LNHibs]

Absolute pish.

As I posted yesterday, one of the racist terms he used could be applied to my family. I know for a fact I’m not the only person in that boat he’s posted since he was appointed. If I heard someone saying these things in real life, I’d want nothing to do with them, ever, regardless of apologies or training courses.

Now I fully understand the point about the drink driving etc. Rightly or wrongly, it doesn’t evoke the same sense of feeling within me as my family haven’t been impacted by it. They’ve absolutely been impacted by racism though, hence why I feel so strongly about it.

If it was a throw away comment about ‘going for a chinky’ or something, I’d have more sympathy. They weren’t though.

I don’t want the guy anywhere near our club. I’ve no idea of your race, religion, sexuality etc but I’d be willing to bet there’s a good few straight, white, non religious males who have been on here telling everybody that the reaction to the comments are a complete overreaction. Trust me, they don’t get to choose what the reaction should be.

I think you are absolutely right to feel this way and that certain actions will trigger feelings for different people based on their current lives. Like you say drink driving doesn't have the same impact as racism has but for someone else it could be the complete polar opposite and both are absolutely correct.

I think the original post was aimed at the wider fanbase, who whether we like it or not, have accepted racism (Riordan & Griffiths x Skacel song) when it has suited us among many other misdemeanours of employees at the club. In football double standards among fans is absolutely rife and we see it all over social media on a daily basis from every club in Scotland. We live in an age where people are so easily offended and use this for point scoring all over the internet (under no circumstances am I meaning this as racism or any other abuse falls into the ''easily offended category''). An example of this is fans rightly outraged at Rangers fans booing the Ron Gordon minutes silence but then singing Lizzies in a box after she passed.

Personally I do not condone what Mackay did but he has acted with remorse on the matter and I believe everyone deserves a second chance, but don't think there is a right or wrong way to feel about the whole situation.

[jeffers]

I have managed to get my hands on the old "Down with this sort of thing" banner famously seen on Father Ted back in the day so count me in.

🤣 I think you’ll find that would be an ecumenical matter.

[TrinityHFC]

:faf:

Yeah, not sure the pope is the best example.

True.

[flash]

🤣 I think you’ll find that would be an ecumenical matter.

Careful now.

[superfurryhibby]

I think you are absolutely right to feel this way and that certain actions will trigger feelings for different people based on their current lives. Like you say drink driving doesn't have the same impact as racism has but for someone else it could be the complete polar opposite and both are absolutely correct.

I think the original post was aimed at the wider fanbase, who whether we like it or not, have accepted racism (Riordan & Griffiths x Skacel song) when it has suited us among many other misdemeanours of employees at the club. In football double standards among fans is absolutely rife and we see it all over social media on a daily basis from every club in Scotland. We live in an age where people are so easily offended and use this for point scoring all over the internet (under no circumstances am I meaning this as racism or any other abuse falls into the ''easily offended category''). An example of this is fans rightly outraged at Rangers fans booing the Ron Gordon minutes silence but then singing Lizzies in a box after she passed.

Personally I do not condone what Mackay did but he has acted with remorse on the matter and I believe everyone deserves a second chance, but don't think there is a right or wrong way to feel about the whole situation.

Good post.

My son's teenage pal is Scottish, with Asian descent on his father's side. When I first met him , he mentioned his Dad and going to his work to meet him, I asked where he worked. In a Paki shop was the reply. Does that make him racist?

McKay has shown remorse, he's been flayed publicly, lost a job and has since shown willing to change his attitudes. People can change, social attitudes change, no one is innocent.

[Keepthefaith]

Absolute pish.

As I posted yesterday, one of the racist terms he used could be applied to my family. I know for a fact I’m not the only person in that boat he’s posted since he was appointed. If I heard someone saying these things in real life, I’d want nothing to do with them, ever, regardless of apologies or training courses.

Now I fully understand the point about the drink driving etc. Rightly or wrongly, it doesn’t evoke the same sense of feeling within me as my family haven’t been impacted by it. They’ve absolutely been impacted by racism though, hence why I feel so strongly about it.

If it was a throw away comment about ‘going for a chinky’ or something, I’d have more sympathy. They weren’t though.

I don’t want the guy anywhere near our club. I’ve no idea of your race, religion, sexuality etc but I’d be willing to bet there’s a good few straight, white, non religious males who have been on here telling everybody that the reaction to the comments are a complete overreaction. Trust me, they don’t get to choose what the reaction should be.

Very well said 👏

[SON OF PADDY]

Should have a like button for sensible comments like these.

The majority of Block 7 break the law most weekends by blasting gear, drinking underage or abusing others. Their moral high ground would be hilarious if they weren’t trying to be serious.




Their statement should have been written in crayon given that it looks like it was written by a 4 year old.


I like, I like 👍🏻

[andyf5]

Most victims of racism aren’t able to “ move on”

He was found innocent. 10 years ago. I am against witch hunts of individuals. Hibs allow an organisation who say they are racist and misogynist into Easter Road every home game - where is the outrage about that? We recognise something exists and try to deal with it.

What is true is that Hibs have divided fans over this.

[Paulie Walnuts]

He was found innocent. 10 years ago. I am against witch hunts of individuals. Hibs allow an organisation who say they are racist and misogynist into Easter Road every home game - where is the outrage about that? We recognise something exists and try to deal with it.

What is true is that Hibs have divided fans over this.

He wasn’t ’found innocent’. The FA decided not to charge him. He also admitted to sending the messages.

Your posts come across like you’re almost attempting to deny it even happened.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I think you are absolutely right to feel this way and that certain actions will trigger feelings for different people based on their current lives. Like you say drink driving doesn't have the same impact as racism has but for someone else it could be the complete polar opposite and both are absolutely correct.

I think the original post was aimed at the wider fanbase, who whether we like it or not, have accepted racism (Riordan & Griffiths x Skacel song) when it has suited us among many other misdemeanours of employees at the club. In football double standards among fans is absolutely rife and we see it all over social media on a daily basis from every club in Scotland. We live in an age where people are so easily offended and use this for point scoring all over the internet (under no circumstances am I meaning this as racism or any other abuse falls into the ''easily offended category''). An example of this is fans rightly outraged at Rangers fans booing the Ron Gordon minutes silence but then singing Lizzies in a box after she passed.

Personally I do not condone what Mackay did but he has acted with remorse on the matter and I believe everyone deserves a second chance, but don't think there is a right or wrong way to feel about the whole situation.

I think that’s a fair post and something for me to think about.

[nickwhibs]

I get why people are disappointed and I was when I first heard he’d been appointed. Seems unnecessary from some folk to put the the boot in on hibs fans who feel that way. What he wrote in those texts can’t be dismissed as throwaway remarks. Racism of anyway kind is disgusting and should always be opposed. However people can change and it appears that Malky has and has made steps to do so. Therefore imo he deserves a chance.

It does seem a slightly strange appointment as it was always going to be divisive and I think from a football perspective there are better people out there but as I say I think he deserves a chance.

[babahibs]

. Hibs allow an organisation who say they are racist and misogynist into Easter Road every home game - where is the outrage about that? .

Eh?

[SON OF PADDY]

Like a lot of Hibs supporters, I come from a background where we were immigrants into Scotland, from elsewhere (Italy, Ireland, elsewhere)

Edinburgh was the place that gave the family the second chance, after having to flee elsewhere due to crops failing / poverty / all the rest of it.

Hibs were the club that became a huge focal point in our family's lives.

You know, sometimes there's no chance that's more cherished (and more necessary) for people than the Second Chance. It's a lifeline. It means the world.

So, on the important assumption Malky has genuine regret for those stupid actions (and everything I hear these days says that he has genuine regret for them & for the offence caused) then everyone deserves a second chance. They really do.

And a lot of us, with backgrounds like the above, can vouch for it - Hibs should be the home of the second chance.


Well said mate 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[Since452]

I think now Malky is here, we'll hear more/pay more attention to his thoughts on racism and about some of the things he's done in the last 10 years to prove he's a better, more educated person than he was. I'm sure he'll get the chance to speak about it.

[Just_Jimmy]

To be fair the fact you’ve been in the company of two popes sounds like the most interesting part of this thread :greengrinAgreed, let's hear the story?

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

[Lester B]

Good for you. Most of us are in the real world though. It could be WhatsApp, chats in the pub, watching and laughing at comedy that is ‘inappropriate’.

How people actually live their lives and things that people might find amusing in other circumstances are different.

Long story for another day but I’ve been in the social company of two Popes in my time. I can assure you that they were real people too and were able to laugh at some inappropriate chat.

So because I don’t get racist WhatsApp messages I don’t live in the real world ?

It’s ok to find racism amusing as long you don’t think of yourself as a racist?

This real world doesn’t sound too appealing.

[Superfurry72]

I get why people are disappointed and I was when I first heard he’d been appointed. Seems unnecessary from some folk to put the the boot in on hibs fans who feel that way. What he wrote in those texts can’t be dismissed as throwaway remarks. Racism of anyway kind is disgusting and should always be opposed. However people can change and it appears that Malky has and has made steps to do so. Therefore imo he deserves a chance.

It does seem a slightly strange appointment as it was always going to be divisive and I think from a football perspective there are better people out there but as I say I think he deserves a chance.

I think this is fair and I really do see your point of view regarding this, it's very considered. Personally, I just can't get past the fact that this all came out when he was 42, he wasn't just a silly wee laddie. He'd carried these views into his adult life while he'd been in the football world for a long time. He needed to be taught how not to be a horrible bigot.

[flash]

Agreed, let's hear the story?

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

Absolutely.

[andyf5]

Eh? The police. They declared themselves institutionally racist and misogynist. They are trying to address the culture. Here is the reference. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67053958

[babahibs]

So because I don’t get racist WhatsApp messages I don’t live in the real world ?

It’s ok to find racism amusing as long you don’t think of yourself as a racist?

This real world doesn’t sound too appealing.

Yeah, a bit of an eye opener, the amount of posters confessing to send and receive racist messages as if it's normal and everyone does it.

[marinello59]

Absolutely.

Two Popes and a Hibs fan walk in to a bar...................

[babahibs]

The police. They declared themselves institutionally racist and misogynist. They are trying to address the culture. Here is the reference. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67053958
:aok:

[TrinityHFC]

Yeah, a bit of an eye opener, the amount of posters confessing to send and receive racist messages as if it's normal and everyone does it.

I’ve just looked through my main group chat with friends who have known each other since nursery school. All thoroughly decent guys. There’s about half a dozen things in first few pages that looking at from the outside would be dodgy but they all refer to in jokes. Are they in themselves racist or misogynistic in nature? Yes, probably, but a bit like a Ricky Gervaise show for example the comedy is the fact it is offensive and the target is a mate not the race or subject of the message, picture etc.

I’m not asking for anyone to say this right but it is reality, even for generally right minded people. That’s why I don’t think this history of his doesn’t mark him out as a terrible person.

[SlickShoes]

I’ve just looked through my main group chat with friends who have known each other since nursery school. All thoroughly decent guys. There’s about half a dozen things in trust few pages that looking at from the outside would be dodgy but they all refer to in jokes. Are they in themselves racist or misogynistic in nature? Yes, probably, but a bit like a Ricky Gervaise show for example the comedy is the fact it is offensive and the target is a mate not the race or subject of the message, picture etc.

I’m not asking for anyone to say this right but it is reality, even for generally right minded people. That’s why I don’t think this history of his doesn’t mark him out as a terrible person.

Sounds like a long winded way to say you and your mates are racist

[Bushwoof]

I'm one of those whose initial reaction to this news was one of extreme disappointment, but having got to page 28 of this thread, I've come around to the idea that we should be more prepared to judge him on his actions of the last 10 years rather than those tweets or whatever they were. And on that basis, in personal terms, heh deserves a fair chance. On his professional results, I'm not so sure!

As an aside, I'd be keen to know why the Skacel song is considered to be racist by a lot of folk. It's fairly plain that the implication that being a refugee is somehow lesser or shameful is entirely wrong, and rather distasteful, but is it really racist?

[TrinityHFC]

Sounds like a long winded way to say you and your mates are racist

You can think whatever you like about it.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Sounds like a long winded way to say you and your mates are racist

In that case I’m a misogynistic racist. Your group chats must be a right riot.

Do you watch any games on Sky? They employ Jamie Carragher who spat at a wee girl.

Did you boo Marvin Bartley when he was on the ball at Hibs? Do you cheer when Joe Newell or Martin Boyle score for Hibs?

Did you walk out of ER when your fellow fans sang the Skacel song?

[Superfurry72]

I’ve just looked through my main group chat with friends who have known each other since nursery school. All thoroughly decent guys. There’s about half a dozen things in first few pages that looking at from the outside would be dodgy but they all refer to in jokes. Are they in themselves racist or misogynistic in nature? Yes, probably, but a bit like a Ricky Gervaise show for example the comedy is the fact it is offensive and the target is a mate not the race or subject of the message, picture etc.

I’m not asking for anyone to say this right but it is reality, even for generally right minded people. That’s why I don’t think this history of his doesn’t mark him out as a terrible person.


Wow. Incredible. Your posts regarding Mackay's appointment make a lot more sense now.

It's also amazing that you think what utter guff Ricky Gervais spouts these days passes as comedy.

[Superfurry72]

Yeah, a bit of an eye opener, the amount of posters confessing to send and receive racist messages as if it's normal and everyone does it.

This is one of the most revealing things about this whole debate. Lot of people on here clearly thinking they're not racist, but in reality think this sort of behaviour is 'banter' and absolutely fine.

[WeeRussell]

I'm one of those whose initial reaction to this news was one of extreme disappointment, but having got to page 28 of this thread, I've come around to the idea that we should be more prepared to judge him on his actions of the last 10 years rather than those tweets or whatever they were. And on that basis, in personal terms, heh deserves a fair chance. On his professional results, I'm not so sure!

As an aside, I'd be keen to know why the Skacel song is considered to be racist by a lot of folk. It's fairly plain that the implication that being a refugee is somehow lesser or shameful is entirely wrong, and rather distasteful, but is it really racist?

I’d imagine the reason/s for branding him a refugee, when he isn’t, puts it into racist territory.

[One Day Soon]

Two Popes and a Hibs fan walk in to a bar...................

Was it a Hibs hospitality bar and was either of the popes a Director of Football?

[DaveF]

This is one of the most revealing things about this whole debate. Lot of people on here clearly thinking they're not racist, but in reality think this sort of behaviour is 'banter' and absolutely fine.

I think you and others are guilty of misinterpretation on this. Plenty people who have said they have seen what would be classed as offensive material in WhatsApp groups over the course of time but you guys are all too readily equating that to racism in the here and now - and as such branding people as racist.

Very wrong IMO

[TrinityHFC]

I’d imagine the reason/s for branding him a refugee, when he isn’t, puts it into racist territory.

I think at the time it was an interesting debate and I, for one, learned and reflected.

It was first sung, I think, in Dnipro - and was a bit of a laugh aimed purely at making fun of Skacel's appearance.

When you break it down it is not only offensive to him but it is stereotyping a particular look and suggesting that makes you look like a refugee.

The next issue it that it suggests being a refugee is any way wrong or something to be ridiculed.

I think when most people discussed it they realised it wasn't acceptable and stopped.



The Paul Hartley is gay song was similar. It began as a response to the Hibees are gay song. Again the thinking was the target was Hartley - and we know he wasn't really gay.

Obviously the real issue was that it infers there is something wrong with being gay.

[Pretty Boy]

I'm in a WhatsApp group with a load of guys I knew from my brief time in Spain. I'm forever the butt of jokes about being tight fisted or wearing a skirt or drinking too much. I remember at one point in the early 2010s a Spanish bank had an advert that had a picture of a stereotypical red haired man with a tammy hat and a kilt and boasted they would keep your money as safe as a Scotsman's wallet.

I never really considered any of that might be racist or xenophobic. I just think they are tired jokes that I laugh off and forget about. Not one of the people involved has ever shown any signs that they have any real prejudice or hatred in them, it's just a laugh. Maybe removed from the context of the chat people would view it as something it wasn't.

Of course that's mild compared to some of what McKay has said but I think it illustrates that stuff gets said in private that might be problematic when it is opened up for public consumption. I find it all a laugh (my situation not what MM said). Maybe someone on here would be mortally offended if they were the target of the same jokes.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

I think at the time it was an interesting debate and I, for one, learned and reflected.

It was first sung, I think, in Dnipro - and was a bit of a laugh aimed purely at making fun of Skacel's appearance.

When you break it down it is not only offensive to him but it is stereotyping a particular look and suggesting that makes you look like a refugee.

The next issue it that it suggests being a refugee is any way wrong or something to be ridiculed.

I think when most people discussed it they realised it wasn't acceptable and stopped.



The Paul Hartley is gay song was similar. It began as a response to the Hibees are gay song. Again the thinking was the target was Hartley - and we know he wasn't really gay.

Obviously the real issue was that it infers there is something wrong with being gay.

Eloquently put. The pant-wetting on this thread is outrageous. Folk claiming they are holier-than-thou as if they’ve never said anything offensive or don’t have friends/family who say anything offensive. Unreal.

[Lester B]

I’ve just looked through my main group chat with friends who have known each other since nursery school. All thoroughly decent guys. There’s about half a dozen things in first few pages that looking at from the outside would be dodgy but they all refer to in jokes. Are they in themselves racist or misogynistic in nature? Yes, probably, but a bit like a Ricky Gervaise show for example the comedy is the fact it is offensive and the target is a mate not the race or subject of the message, picture etc.

I’m not asking for anyone to say this right but it is reality, even for generally right minded people. That’s why I don’t think this history of his doesn’t mark him out as a terrible person.

Remarkable

Racism and misogyny as in jokes

Racism and misogyny as irony.

I never thought I’d type this sentence but at least MM professes to have learned something.

You on the other hand….

[One Day Soon]

This has remarkably been both one of the worst and best threads on .net in a long time. Incredibly divisive and toxic and also very instructive and thoughtful. I really hope MM is aware enough to realise his appointment has been met with a mixed response and is sensible enough, when the opportunity arises, to just gently reassure people about the man he is now.

[James70]

As far as I'm concerned the guy has the right to continue with his life the same as any convicted person has after serving whatever punishment that was dished out. He has admitted his mistakes and apologised and been employed elsewhere since then. He shouldn't have to spend the rest of his life being penalised. I'm sure that some of his biggest critics have led less and indeed are leading less than pure lives themselves. We can only hope that he does a good job as Director of Sport.

[.Sean.]

Eloquently put. The pant-wetting on this thread is outrageous. Folk claiming they are holier-than-thou as if they’ve never said anything offensive or don’t have friends/family who say anything offensive. Unreal.
:agree:

[andyf5]

As far as I'm concerned the guy has the right to continue with his life the same as any convicted person has after serving whatever punishment that was dished out. He has admitted his mistakes and apologised and been employed elsewhere since then. He shouldn't have to spend the rest of his life being penalised. I'm sure that some of his biggest critics have led less and indeed are leading less than pure lives themselves. We can only hope that he does a good job as Director of Sport.

He was found innocent of any wrong doing after a newspaper leaked private texts. Agree with your sentiment.

[#2 Double Tap]

This is one of the most revealing things about this whole debate. Lot of people on here clearly thinking they're not racist, but in reality think this sort of behaviour is 'banter' and absolutely fine.

Implicit bias: Is everyone racist?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-40124781

[Lester B]

Eloquently put. The pant-wetting on this thread is outrageous. Folk claiming they are holier-than-thou as if they’ve never said anything offensive or don’t have friends/family who say anything offensive. Unreal.

If I’m holier than thou because I have never and would never write texts like Mm did then guilty.

If I’m holier than thou because I don’t get involved in WhatsApp groups that send racist and misogynistic messages then guilty.

You know what is ‘unreal’? The blatant apologism exhibited by some on here.

[A Hi-Bee]

I'm in a WhatsApp group with a load of guys I knew from my brief time in Spain. I'm forever the butt of jokes about being tight fisted or wearing a skirt or drinking too much. I remember at one point in the early 2010s a Spanish bank had an advert that had a picture of a stereotypical red haired man with a tammy hat and a kilt and boasted they would keep your money as safe as a Scotsman's wallet.

I never really considered any of that might be racist or xenophobic. I just think they are tired jokes that I laugh off and forget about. Not one of the people involved has ever shown any signs that they have any real prejudice or hatred in them, it's just a laugh. Maybe removed from the context of the chat people would view it as something it wasn't.

Of course that's mild compared to some of what McKay has said but I think it illustrates that stuff gets said in private that might be problematic when it is opened up for public consumption. I find it all a laugh (my situation not what MM said). Maybe someone on here would be mortally offended if they were the target of the same jokes.

Don't, remember if it was Aldi or Lidle in Germany before they moved into Britain in a big way used to use the stereotypical Scotsman to advertise the sales all the time, I did find it funny. Not so being called a sweaty sock by der englanders but again it is character building.

[TrinityHFC]

This is one of the most revealing things about this whole debate. Lot of people on here clearly thinking they're not racist, but in reality think this sort of behaviour is 'banter' and absolutely fine.

What it reveals is that human beings, even ones who consider themselves to be decent people, say things that they are fully aware are offensive or wrong because yes, sometimes saying offensive things in particular contexts is funny.

That is different from not knowing that it is wrong and it is also different from saying things in a completely different context which would be actively abusive.

We all know misogyny is wrong I'd hope. If you can tell me you've never been in the company of men when someone makes a comment to that group about a woman having nice t*** or something similar or never made those comments yourself then you are indeed a better man than me (apologies for assuming your gender).

[WeeRussell]

Wow. Incredible. Your posts regarding Mackay's appointment make a lot more sense now.

It's also amazing that you think what utter guff Ricky Gervais spouts these days passes as comedy.

Curious as to which of Gervais’ shows wouldn’t pass as comedy?

I’d love to see racism eradicated from our world and appreciate we are still so far away from where we should be in 2024. And I also understand why people stress the need to get rid of ‘casual’ and ‘throwaway’ remarks in order to help the situation, even if others see it as relatively harmless and private.

Also think Stubbsy and others have raised some very valid points re who decides whether something is an overreaction or not. I think it’s generally best to leave the people that are personally impacted and offended to decide how and to what extent they are impacted and offended, while believing we can all still have an opinion on Malky and his apppointment.

Progression through learning is huge.

Context still counts for something however. And I’m not sure it’s helpful to keep accusing every poster that tries to explain their reasons for believing Malky isn’t inherently racist, and deserves a second chance, as racist themselves.

[MKHIBEE]

I’ve just looked through my main group chat with friends who have known each other since nursery school. All thoroughly decent guys. There’s about half a dozen things in first few pages that looking at from the outside would be dodgy but they all refer to in jokes. Are they in themselves racist or misogynistic in nature? Yes, probably, but a bit like a Ricky Gervaise show for example the comedy is the fact it is offensive and the target is a mate not the race or subject of the message, picture etc.

I’m not asking for anyone to say this right but it is reality, even for generally right minded people. That’s why I don’t think this history of his doesn’t mark him out as a terrible person.

Perhaps you could ask MM what he thinks, as he is obviously, to many, a reformed and repentant character? I’m sure his reformist, anti racist views would be welcomed

[Mon Dieu4]

I'm in a WhatsApp group with a load of guys I knew from my brief time in Spain. I'm forever the butt of jokes about being tight fisted or wearing a skirt or drinking too much. I remember at one point in the early 2010s a Spanish bank had an advert that had a picture of a stereotypical red haired man with a tammy hat and a kilt and boasted they would keep your money as safe as a Scotsman's wallet.

I never really considered any of that might be racist or xenophobic. I just think they are tired jokes that I laugh off and forget about. Not one of the people involved has ever shown any signs that they have any real prejudice or hatred in them, it's just a laugh. Maybe removed from the context of the chat people would view it as something it wasn't.

Of course that's mild compared to some of what McKay has said but I think it illustrates that stuff gets said in private that might be problematic when it is opened up for public consumption. I find it all a laugh (my situation not what MM said). Maybe someone on here would be mortally offended if they were the target of the same jokes.

Growing up in Leith I have lots of Sikh and Hindu pals so Scots/Indian, some of the stuff they say to me is pretty wild but I know they are good folk and just having a laugh about stereotypes and there is no malice intended, same with my pal who is Chinese but lives here, he told me all white people look the same to him

Flip it round the other way and if I said any of these things to them, not that I would as I appreciate they have dealt with real racism in their lives then I would be deemed the most racist man alive for just joking with my pals and saying back then what they said to me

There is definitely context required in just accusing anyone of being a racist, not that it applies to Mackay as the stuff he said was abhorrent

[Bushwoof]

I’d imagine the reason/s for branding him a refugee, when he isn’t, puts it into racist territory.

Thanks for that, that makes sense, although I still struggle a bit with the concept that anti middle-european racism exists to any extent. No need to ever hear the song again though.

[Unseen work]

Is it confirmed he actually sent all of the alleged texts?

Reading up on it he seems to say he only sent 3.

It doesn’t make it ok, but would be interesting what ones he sent and who sent the others.

[A Hi-Bee]

Growing up in Leith I have lots of Sikh and Hindu pals so Scots/Indian, some of the stuff they say to me is pretty wild but I know they are good folk and just having a laugh about stereotypes and there is no malice intended, same with my pal who is Chinese but lives here, he told me all white people look the same to him

Flip it round the other way and if I said any of these things to them, not that I would as I appreciate they have dealt with real racism in their lives then I would be deemed the most racist man alive for just joking with my pals and saying back then what they said to me

There is definitely context required in just accusing anyone of being a racist, not that it applies to Mackay as the stuff he said was abhorrent

Is sectarianism, any different as Neil Lennon pointed out while our CEO at the time turned the other way.

[Superfurry72]

I think you and others are guilty of misinterpretation on this. Plenty people who have said they have seen what would be classed as offensive material in WhatsApp groups over the course of time but you guys are all too readily equating that to racism in the here and now - and as such branding people as racist.

Very wrong IMO


I don't think I've misinterpreted anything

[MWHIBBIES]

You don’t need to be. I’ve said some stupid things in the past that I’ve learned from, and I wouldn’t take too kindly to someone emailing my employer registering their disgust that I’m on their payroll because I forwarded a meme ten years ago or said something offensive.

If your apprentice is having a mare, I’d perhaps intervene for his and everyone else’s safety so he doesn’t blow up a building. Perhaps be constructive in your criticism and teach him right from wrong. Almost like rehabilitation to be honest.

I've already said, I'm okay with this appointment as I think he's tried to educate himself. I don't think you need to be spotless to think he's a dick, though. That logic is totally flawed. I won't be sending any emails. Hopefully he does a good job for us and proves himself a good representative for our club.

[TrinityHFC]

Is it confirmed he actually sent all of the alleged texts?

Reading up on it he seems to say he only sent 3.

It doesn’t make it ok, but would be interesting what ones he sent and who sent the others.

If I recall it was 3 - one about the t""" of a female agent, one about a jew and money and one using an offensive term for a Chinese person.

[sleeping giant]

Is it confirmed he actually sent all of the alleged texts?

Reading up on it he seems to say he only sent 3.

It doesn’t make it ok, but would be interesting what ones he sent and who sent the others.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/28890833

[Pretty Boy]

Maybe the best solution would be for groups who have put out statements about McKay be proactive and request to meet him or better yet he do the same and try to meet them?

A chat with the folk at Hibees Pride, Block 7 etc etc might give him a chance to show his contrition is genuine and he's not the big, bad bogey man. If there was willingness on all sides then it might go some way to moving on from this and building a few bridges.

Victim-offender mediation is something that has been a great success in other areas. An open and honest chat over a cup of tea that allows everyone to have their voices heard can work wonders.

Something for the club to consider perhaps?

[Donegal Hibby]

I'm sorry to see some of our fans so annoyed and upset about his appointment which I understand and respect their views on it . Hopefully we don't lose fans over this either.

I don't think the club could have made a more controversial appointment and genuinely don't think that it was the right one to make at this time with everything that's going on .

All I see is a character that's made horrible comments in the past and failed repeatedly as a manager who's not long ago been sacked at Ross County which feels like a totally uninspiring appointment that lacks ambition.

I see quite alot are happy with it and saying he will do a good job . Even though I'm disappointed and not entirely happy with this I'm trying to be opened minded and interested in hearing why some think he is a good choice for us . 👍

[WeeRussell]

Thanks for that, that makes sense, although I still struggle a bit with the concept that anti middle-european racism exists to any extent. No need to ever hear the song again though.

👍 the post in reply to mine is probably a more detailed and fair enough analysis.

On the anti middle-European thing, I think the fact the majority of people singing the song wouldn’t even know where Skacel was from, but decided he looks like a refugee, probably contributes to the song being racist.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

I've already said, I'm okay with this appointment as I think he's tried to educate himself. I don't think you need to be spotless to think he's a dick, though. That logic is totally flawed. I won't be sending any emails. Hopefully he does a good job for us and proves himself a good representative for our club.

For once, you and I agree. Who would have thought it would take a racist bigot to make us become friends 😂😉

[Mcbizz1998]

This is getting a lot more deep than it needs to be.

MM said and received some messages that were likely jokes, privately. They were racist/misogynistic/homophobic but almost certainly weren't a reflection of his true feelings towards certain races/sexes/sexualities. The messages shouldn't have been sent and reflect badly on MM but I along with just about everyone on this board (couple of saints excluded), have sent/received messages that would reflect badly on me if shown to the wider public without context.

This all happened a decade ago and since then MM has worked for the SFA and was endorsed to do so by several anti-racism groups. I think it's a really good appointment from a footballing point of view, I couldn't give less of a **** about these messages - especially after MM has shown contrition and become a better person as a result.

Welcome Malky, now get Hibs sorted out and have a good 24/25 season!

[SRHibs]

This is one of the most revealing things about this whole debate. Lot of people on here clearly thinking they're not racist, but in reality think this sort of behaviour is 'banter' and absolutely fine.

If there is a joke in a WhatsApp group (almost certainly for the purpose of being edgy) yet, in person, the person who made the joke treats everyone exactly the same regardless of race, gender identity, sexuality etc. are they really racist?

People are in an uproar over this, yet willing to overlook the fact that Stokes pretty much ruined a man's life, all because he's a "Hibs hero"? What a place!

[Since452]

I'm sorry to see some of our fans so annoyed and upset about his appointment which I understand and respect their views on it . Hopefully we don't lose fans over this either.

I don't think the club could have made a more controversial appointment and genuinely don't think that it was the right one to make at this time with everything that's going on .

All I see is a character that's made horrible comments in the past and failed repeatedly as a manager who's not long ago been sacked at Ross County which feels like a totally uninspiring appointment that lacks ambition.

I see quite alot are happy with it and saying he will do a good job . Even though I'm disappointed and not entirely happy with this I'm trying to be opened minded and interested in hearing why some think he is a good choice for us . ��

He did pretty well at Ross County on the whole. Got them top 6 i'm sure. Their expectations must be to survive relegation. Did he also not do pretty well down south?

[WeAreHibs]

What it reveals is that human beings, even ones who consider themselves to be decent people, say things that they are fully aware are offensive or wrong because yes, sometimes saying offensive things in particular contexts is funny.

That is different from not knowing that it is wrong and it is also different from saying things in a completely different context which would be actively abusive.

We all know misogyny is wrong I'd hope. If you can tell me you've never been in the company of men when someone makes a comment to that group about a woman having nice t*** or something similar or never made those comments yourself then you are indeed a better man than me (apologies for assuming your gender).

Spot on! 👍🏻

[ChuckNor]

I would have had no issues if they’d announced it at the same time as the Monty sacking though I get why they were done separately. They were getting slated for the holding statement put out after we failed to make top 6. They’ve belatedly made a decision to sack an underperforming manager and quickly announced they’ve appointed someone tasked with bringing in his replacement. As a fan that’s what I want to hear.

We will never agree re Kensell. I get the argument that as CEO the buck stops with him, but they have recognised the football side of things is failing. They’ve taken steps to address that. Whether McKay is the man to fix that we will need to wait and see. I’m not sure how Kensell has got off with one.

On the one hand you say that as CEO the buck stops with him and then question how he has got away with one. The list of failures during his time is incredible. There another thread called “congratulations Ben Kensell” have a read of the first post for just some of the problems he’s caused. Look at the last set of financial results - he’s failing at the commercial side too. Coming out and saying “oh the next set of financials will be fine” is a complete PR move. He’s at it.

We might not agree on Kensell but I have to question how anyone can’t see that should he continue to earn over £300k (one of the top eating CEOs at any Scottish prem club) from hibs that he hasn’t gotten away with one. Indeed, he’s doing that ***** a job we’ve created a new role for Malky to focus on the footbal side! He simply has to go!

[lucky]

People change. Look at Matt Collins of Hope not Hate. He was a racist & fascist when he was younger but now a leading campaigner against the far right. He also goes to the occasional Hibs game. Lets judge McKay on who is now not then.

[GreenPJ]

Maybe the best solution would be for groups who have put out statements about McKay be proactive and request to meet him or better yet he do the same and try to meet them?

A chat with the folk at Hibees Pride, Block 7 etc etc might give him a chance to show his contrition is genuine and he's not the big, bad bogey man. If there was willingness on all sides then it might go some way to moving on from this and building a few bridges.

Victim-offender mediation is something that has been a great success in other areas. An open and honest chat over a cup of tea that allows everyone to have their voices heard can work wonders.

Something for the club to consider perhaps?

A good idea but only if people who went to meet him would go and be willing to listen and the potential for them to change their view, if not it's pointless.

[SlickShoes]

If there is a joke in a WhatsApp group (almost certainly for the purpose of being edgy) yet, in person, the person who made the joke treats everyone exactly the same regardless of race, gender identity, sexuality etc. are they really racist?

People are in an uproar over this, yet willing to overlook the fact that Stokes pretty much ruined a man's life, all because he's a "Hibs hero"? What a place!

Yes still racist.


Has anyone here who’s said they don’t like the appointment been lauding stokes? He’s part of our history now and there’s nothing we can do about it, I wouldn’t want him anywhere near hibs currently. Mackay is now part of our history too, doesn’t mean we have to like it.

[tug.lismore]

I think you are absolutely right to feel this way and that certain actions will trigger feelings for different people based on their current lives. Like you say drink driving doesn't have the same impact as racism has but for someone else it could be the complete polar opposite and both are absolutely correct.

I think the original post was aimed at the wider fanbase, who whether we like it or not, have accepted racism (Riordan & Griffiths x Skacel song) when it has suited us among many other misdemeanours of employees at the club. In football double standards among fans is absolutely rife and we see it all over social media on a daily basis from every club in Scotland. We live in an age where people are so easily offended and use this for point scoring all over the internet (under no circumstances am I meaning this as racism or any other abuse falls into the ''easily offended category''). An example of this is fans rightly outraged at Rangers fans booing the Ron Gordon minutes silence but then singing Lizzies in a box after she passed.

Personally I do not condone what Mackay did but he has acted with remorse on the matter and I believe everyone deserves a second chance, but don't think there is a right or wrong way to feel about the whole situation.A nice sensible post.

I find much of the outrage shown on here as rather sanctimonious. All these perfect people painting Mackay as some sort of poster boy for the KKK.

Obviously none of them have let off steam in private messages that are in anyway inappropriate.

If you look at his football pedigree, especially after he stopped playing, then he is well qualified for the role Hibs have employed him for.

He can't undo the texts. He has owned up to them and apologised. Let's move on.

And Block 7 do not speak for me. They have no moral high ground to speak from.

Sent from my 2312DRA50G using Tapatalk

[SlickShoes]

A nice sensible post.

I find much of the outrage shown on here as rather sanctimonious. All these perfect people painting Mackay as some sort of poster boy for the KKK.

Obviously none of them have let off steam in private messages that are in anyway inappropriate.

If you look at his football pedigree, especially after he stopped playing, then he is well qualified for the role Hibs have employed him for.

He can't undo the texts. He has owned up to them and apologised. Let's move on.

And Block 7 do not speak for me. They have no moral high ground to speak from.

Sent from my 2312DRA50G using Tapatalk

No one is painting him as the KKK, they are simply saying they don’t like him and don’t like the appointment for very obvious reasons. The issue is people bending over backwards to defend him.

Others are asking if sending and receiving racist and sexist texts is “bad”, and for me yes it is. Pretty simple.

The assumption that everyone sang the skacel song is nonsense too, there was plenty of uproar at the time from people not happy with it. They were probably told to grow up or something equally stupid.

[Superfurry72]

Curious as to which of Gervais’ shows wouldn’t pass as comedy?

I’d love to see racism eradicated from our world and appreciate we are still so far away from where we should be in 2024. And I also understand why people stress the need to get rid of ‘casual’ and ‘throwaway’ remarks in order to help the situation, even if others see it as relatively harmless and private.

Also think Stubbsy and others have raised some very valid points re who decides whether something is an overreaction or not. I think it’s generally best to leave the people that are personally impacted and offended to decide how and to what extent they are impacted and offended, while believing we can all still have an opinion on Malky and his apppointment.

Progression through learning is huge.

Context still counts for something however. And I’m not sure it’s helpful to keep accusing every poster that tries to explain their reasons for believing Malky isn’t inherently racist, and deserves a second chance, as racist themselves.

It's not just those who are personally impacted that can be offended by racism. That's like saying someone who's not gay can't be offended by homophobia.

Who's 'accusing every poster that tries to explain their reasons for believing Malky isn’t inherently racist, and deserves a second chance, as racist themselves'?? All that's being pointed out is there are a lot of admissions of dodgy chat in private/WhatsApp groups etc...this needs to be called out, as you say yourself!

Regarding Ricky Gervais, I personally haven't found him very funny since about 2002 (The Office was magnificent TBF) and find his recent stand-up (what little I've seen of it) pointlessly offensive.

[joe breezy]

I believe we all make mistakes and I’ve made loads - he volunteered to do diversity training so deserves a chance

But these are his words at the time for those saying it was just a one off joke

https://x.com/football__tweet/status/535156880985710594?s=46


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jimbob07]

Curious as to which of Gervais’ shows wouldn’t pass as comedy?

I’d love to see racism eradicated from our world and appreciate we are still so far away from where we should be in 2024. And I also understand why people stress the need to get rid of ‘casual’ and ‘throwaway’ remarks in order to help the situation, even if others see it as relatively harmless and private.

Also think Stubbsy and others have raised some very valid points re who decides whether something is an overreaction or not. I think it’s generally best to leave the people that are personally impacted and offended to decide how and to what extent they are impacted and offended, while believing we can all still have an opinion on Malky and his apppointment.

Progression through learning is huge.

Context still counts for something however. And I’m not sure it’s helpful to keep accusing every poster that tries to explain their reasons for believing Malky isn’t inherently racist, and deserves a second chance, as racist themselves.
I hardly ever post on here but I feel obliged to comment on the current situation. Why do so many Hibs.net posters pick holes in everything Hibs do.we are supporters not antagonists but doesn’t seem to be on here. When we have a bad result or two this place is flooded with indignation. When we win much less so. I believe Malky Mackay is a great appointment. Let’s get behind Hibs totally

[Alex Trager]

Maybe the best solution would be for groups who have put out statements about McKay be proactive and request to meet him or better yet he do the same and try to meet them?

A chat with the folk at Hibees Pride, Block 7 etc etc might give him a chance to show his contrition is genuine and he's not the big, bad bogey man. If there was willingness on all sides then it might go some way to moving on from this and building a few bridges.

Victim-offender mediation is something that has been a great success in other areas. An open and honest chat over a cup of tea that allows everyone to have their voices heard can work wonders.

Something for the club to consider perhaps?

I think that sounds like a fantastic idea.

In truth, I think the fact that Hibs are banning people for life, despite employing MM. I’m not sure how they could police that, in terms of ensuring people who have been racist attend the appropriate courses or whatever, but it does seem to be double standards.

To get to his appointment from a sporting merit. I am watching this interview at the moment and I am really impressed with his strategic view.

It is miles apart from the way BMc was presented to us. I appreciate that this interview is not an official hibs one, or even a hibs related one, but the idea that he looks to implement a clear structure across a club (or national team) is exactly what we need.
https://youtu.be/YWu9SLdYAUQ?si=_kr6h0o21yudfJ70

[TrinityHFC]

It's not just those who are personally impacted that can be offended by racism. That's like saying someone who's not gay can't be offended by homophobia.

Who's 'accusing every poster that tries to explain their reasons for believing Malky isn’t inherently racist, and deserves a second chance, as racist themselves'?? All that's being pointed out is there are a lot of admissions of dodgy chat in private/WhatsApp groups etc...this needs to be called out, as you say yourself!

Regarding Ricky Gervais, I personally haven't found him very funny since about 2002 (The Office was magnificent TBF) and find his recent stand-up (what little I've seen of it) pointlessly offensive.

Okay, so you should equally be called out for thinking The Office was magnificent. It’s full of racist and misogynistic banter.

[Superfurry72]

Okay, so you should equally be called out for thinking The Office was magnificent. It’s full of racist and misogynistic banter.


Like I said earlier regarding stuff like this, it’s about context. Who is being laughed at in the show? You must surely realise this is a ridiculous thing to say.

[tonyrougier123]

Maybe the best solution would be for groups who have put out statements about McKay be proactive and request to meet him or better yet he do the same and try to meet them?

A chat with the folk at Hibees Pride, Block 7 etc etc might give him a chance to show his contrition is genuine and he's not the big, bad bogey man. If there was willingness on all sides then it might go some way to moving on from this and building a few bridges.

Victim-offender mediation is something that has been a great success in other areas. An open and honest chat over a cup of tea that allows everyone to have their voices heard can work wonders.

Something for the club to consider perhaps?

Hibs should be giving you a job in PR. Always the voice of reason on here.
You’ve hit nail on head! They should use this appointment to make a let’s work together stance,without it eating into his time to focus on making hibs a better “football” club.

[Pretty Boy]

Out of curiosity what would be an acceptable resolution to those who are against the appointment? Particularly those who have stated they will not be attending games because of it.

It appears it's close to universally accepted that the texts McKay sent and received were inappropriate and offensive. I haven't really seen anyone argue otherwise.

It's also accepted Mckay apologised, more than once, voluntarily undertook training to try and learn from his behaviour and was praised for doing so by at least two anti racism charities who backed his return to working in football.

I haven't seen any evidence put forward that McKay has repeated his behaviour in the decade since the texts were leaked.

In the intervening years McKay has worked with both black and Asian players with, as far as I'm aware, no allegations of discriminatory behaviour.

So realistically what is the outcome you desire? If he addressed the issues again publicly and reiterated his remorse would that cut it? Would engaging with local groups who deal with racism, sexism etc and meeting with groups who represent such communities in the Hibs fanbase change your mind? Time travel is, as far as known science goes, impossible so going back 10-13 years and not behaving in such a way in the 1st place isn't possible. So is it a case of there is nothing he can do and the only acceptable resolution is he is removed rom his position?

[SRHibs]

Yes still racist.


Has anyone here who’s said they don’t like the appointment been lauding stokes? He’s part of our history now and there’s nothing we can do about it, I wouldn’t want him anywhere near hibs currently. Mackay is now part of our history too, doesn’t mean we have to like it.

I don't necessarily agree, however MM's comments are certainly hard to write off as banter to be fair.

Stokes was generally lauded by all (even after his crimes) just a few years ago, but the sentiment seems to have changed now.

Anyway, you make fair points and I'm bowing out of this conversation as I'm not even sure why I've decided to get involved!

[andyf5]

No one is painting him as the KKK, they are simply saying they don’t like him and don’t like the appointment for very obvious reasons. The issue is people bending over backwards to defend him.

Others are asking if sending and receiving racist and sexist texts is “bad”, and for me yes it is. Pretty simple.

The assumption that everyone sang the skacel song is nonsense too, there was plenty of uproar at the time from people not happy with it. They were probably told to grow up or something equally stupid.

I think people are trying to point out he is guilty of nothing when some people on here think he is and are repeating it as a fact. No one is defending the language in the texts taken from his private mailbox but it was investigated at the time and he was innocent of wrongdoing. Nothing in his behaviour before or since suggest he is unsuitable for this job.

[Since90+2]

Out of curiosity what would be an acceptable resolution to those who are against the appointment? Particularly those who have stated they will not be attending games because of it.

It appears it's close to universally accepted that the texts McKay sent and received were inappropriate and offensive. I haven't really seen anyone argue otherwise.

It's also accepted Mckay apologised, more than once, voluntarily undertook training to try and learn from his behaviour and was praised for doing so by at least two anti racism charities who backed his return to working in football.

I haven't seen any evidence put forward that McKay has repeated his behaviour in the decade since the texts were leaked.

In the intervening years McKay has worked with both black and Asian players with, as far as I'm aware, no allegations of discriminatory behaviour.

So realistically what is the outcome you desire? If he addressed the issues again publicly and reiterated his remorse would that cut it? Would engaging with local groups who deal with racism, sexism etc and meeting with groups who represent such communities in the Hibs fanbase change your mind? Time travel is, as far as known science goes, impossible so going back 10-13 years and not behaving in such a way in the 1st place isn't possible. So is it a case of there is nothing he can do and the only acceptable resolution is he is removed rom his position?

Let me honest, some people will never be happy with him. The guy made a mistake, admitted it and took steps to better himself since then.

A certain section of society, and Hibs fans are no different, sadly don't want to see anyone be given a second chance.

We've had players convicted of drink driving and yet I don't see the same posters hounding them out the club. Some even actively support them yet their "crime" is vastly worse than what McKay done. It was wrong and it shouldn't have happened, but he didn't risk maiming or killing anyone in the process.

[Donegal Hibby]

He did pretty well at Ross County on the whole. Got them top 6 i'm sure. Their expectations must be to survive relegation. Did he also not do pretty well down south?

Finished 14th I think at Watford if you can call that good ( win rate 33.3 %).
Cardiff he was criticised for his signings , playing style etc , sacked .
Wigan , again sacked . (Win rate 20%) .
Ross county he ended up sacked too .

Still trying to figure out why the Hibs board would think such a controversial appointment like MM is good when they knew it was going to be so unpopular with a lot of fans . Looks a poor ,poor appointment in all honesty .

[He's here!]

Finished 14th I think at Watford if you can call that good ( win rate 33.3 %).
Cardiff he was criticised for his signings , playing style etc , sacked .
Wigan , again sacked . (Win rate 20%) .
Ross county he ended up sacked too .

Still trying to figure out why the Hibs board would think such a controversial appointment like MM is good when they knew it was going to be so unpopular with a lot of fans . Looks a poor ,poor appointment in all honesty .

He did very well for the most part at Cardiff IIRC? Took them to the Premier League and a cup final.

[Perd Hapley]

Out of curiosity what would be an acceptable resolution to those who are against the appointment? Particularly those who have stated they will not be attending games because of it.

It appears it's close to universally accepted that the texts McKay sent and received were inappropriate and offensive. I haven't really seen anyone argue otherwise.

It's also accepted Mckay apologised, more than once, voluntarily undertook training to try and learn from his behaviour and was praised for doing so by at least two anti racism charities who backed his return to working in football.

I haven't seen any evidence put forward that McKay has repeated his behaviour in the decade since the texts were leaked.

In the intervening years McKay has worked with both black and Asian players with, as far as I'm aware, no allegations of discriminatory behaviour.

So realistically what is the outcome you desire? If he addressed the issues again publicly and reiterated his remorse would that cut it? Would engaging with local groups who deal with racism, sexism etc and meeting with groups who represent such communities in the Hibs fanbase change your mind? Time travel is, as far as known science goes, impossible so going back 10-13 years and not behaving in such a way in the 1st place isn't possible. So is it a case of there is nothing he can do and the only acceptable resolution is he is removed rom his position?

Personally, yes. In my view the man shouldn't have had a road back into professional football. He should have been hung out to dry and made an example of, so as to send out a message of zero tolerance. Is that a hard line? Of course, it's zero tolerance. If the man has put in hard work, changed his views and renounced his past bigotry then on a personal level good on him, sincerely - but on a professional level that doesn't eliminate the problems. I'm a strong believer in rehabilitation and I don't doubt that Mackay has changed, but I still think he forfeited any right to work in the professional game when he was exposed.

As a white heterosexual fan, I'm ultimately not the kind of stakeholder who's important here, and I don't think it's just about appeasing fans. I'd be extremely interested to hear the thoughts of our BME and LGBT players, particularly the younger ones, who now have to contend with the fact that their career is in the hands of a man who has shown extreme prejudice towards their characteristics. I also worry as many have pointed out that this undermines the club's stance on racism and might embolden the kind of prick who abused Dhanda the other week.

For me, there's nothing Mackay can do or say to change what he's done, and it's what he's done that's the problem. The club have dug a monumental hole for themselves here and I think there's probably quite a few like myself who simply won't be happy till he's out. That's the harsh reality for me anyway

[tonyrougier123]

Finished 14th I think at Watford if you can call that good ( win rate 33.3 %).
Cardiff he was criticised for his signings , playing style etc , sacked .
Wigan , again sacked . (Win rate 20%) .
Ross county he ended up sacked too .

Still trying to figure out why the Hibs board would think such a controversial appointment like MM is good when they knew it was going to be so unpopular with a lot of fans . Looks a poor ,poor appointment in all honesty .

You should have a look a bit deeper into his time at Watford revered for his football and his handling of affairs whilst the club was in threat of going under.

I personally know Cardiff supporters who still praise his time there also.

We are talking in terms of a decade ago doing well with a fraction of the budgets he was up against. Prem clubs at the bottom have a solid 100million foundation base for starters now. That wasn’t the case a decade ago.https://www.watfordfc.com/magazine/features/the-boss-files-malky-mackay

[cameronw-hfc]

Some of the whatabouttery in this thread is wild. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, of course, but shutting peoples ideas down as racist or being 'offended at everything' is just stupid.

There's a legit argument that Malky has been punished and deserves a chance, I see that side.

There's also a legit reason to dislike the man, no matter how hard some will try convince you, the texts weren't a joke. That's a deeply racist and hateful man, when he sent those texts.

Has he changed? Maybe, maybe not, but do we need to take the risk here? Are we as fans not entitled to say we'd rather he wasn't given his second chance at the club?

And for the people bringing up Boyle, Newell, Bartley etc, these things aren't the same. They do not go hand in hand, and if you can't figure out why Hibs players who have done a hell of a lot for local charities get some slack despite past problems compared to Malky, someone with 0 connection to Hibs, is there any point even explaining? I'm not saying drink driving is okay, it's not, and they rightly got critisied and punished for it, but you can't in one hand tell people to stop being offended, then tell people to start being offended about something else, it doesn't work.

Everyone has their own moral compass/code. Some things will upset others, some won't, it's nobody's place to tell anyone whether they have a right to feel a certain way.

[Unseen work]

Finished 14th I think at Watford if you can call that good ( win rate 33.3 %).
Cardiff he was criticised for his signings , playing style etc , sacked .
Wigan , again sacked . (Win rate 20%) .
Ross county he ended up sacked too .

Still trying to figure out why the Hibs board would think such a controversial appointment like MM is good when they knew it was going to be so unpopular with a lot of fans . Looks a poor ,poor appointment in all honesty .

This is what annoys me, at least make your argument balanced.

You’ve only listed negatives and not one positive thing he has done in his career

[blackpoolhibs]

Genuine question for folk chucking the toys out the pram - where you sound when we appointed Neil Lennon after threatening to stab a woman he was cheating on with, were you alright with O’Connor loving the ching, does Newell and Boyle being convicted of drink driving get a pass? How about Bartley being a creep with his ex, the numerous players we’ve had getting into fights up the toon, or Stokes being a complete and utter ****bag? I could go on and on

All of them forgiven and most still seen as heroes, and some given more chances than second ones - all seemingly less of an issue than 3 texts sent 10 year ago

This faux outrage is pathetic and beyond hypocritical, and I can guarantee yous have all said something a bit unsavoury to your pal or laughed at something you probably shouldn’t have.

Rasicm is now a huge no no, like it or not it was not seen as such a bad thing for years.

Some folk love to be offended, and rasicm now is getting classed as similar to murder or sex offences, why i'm not sure as it certainly cant affect people the same?

Is rasicm as bad as drink driving, or attacking Elvis impersonators, or stalking women or threatening them?

What is it that makes a racist worse than that lot, and why is the reaction worse?:confused:

[Rumble de Thump]

Finished 14th I think at Watford if you can call that good ( win rate 33.3 %).
Cardiff he was criticised for his signings , playing style etc , sacked .
Wigan , again sacked . (Win rate 20%) .
Ross county he ended up sacked too .

Still trying to figure out why the Hibs board would think such a controversial appointment like MM is good when they knew it was going to be so unpopular with a lot of fans . Looks a poor ,poor appointment in all honesty .

Didn't he get Cardiff promoted to the Premiership and work as performance director at the SFA for a few years?

[Since90+2]

Some of the whatabouttery in this thread is wild. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, of course, but shutting peoples ideas down as racist or being 'offended at everything' is just stupid.

There's a legit argument that Malky has been punished and deserves a chance, I see that side.

There's also a legit reason to dislike the man, no matter how hard some will try convince you, the texts weren't a joke. That's a deeply racist and hateful man, when he sent those texts.

Has he changed? Maybe, maybe not, but do we need to take the risk here? Are we as fans not entitled to say we'd rather he wasn't given his second chance at the club?

And for the people bringing up Boyle, Newell, Bartley etc, these things aren't the same. They do not go hand in hand, and if you can't figure out why Hibs players who have done a hell of a lot for local charities get some slack despite past problems compared to Malky, someone with 0 connection to Hibs, is there any point even explaining? I'm not saying drink driving is okay, it's not, and they rightly got critisied and punished for it, but you can't in one hand tell people to stop being offended, then tell people to start being offended about something else, it doesn't work.

Everyone has their own moral compass/code. Some things will upset others, some won't, it's nobody's place to tell anyone whether they have a right to feel a certain way.

Personally I'm not telling anyone to be offended at anything. People seem to do that very easily themselves.

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of saying zero tolerance to someone sending inappropriate messages but at the same time turn a blind eye to players who have done far worse, yet were still welcomed at the club.

[tonyrougier123]

Personally, yes. In my view the man shouldn't have had a road back into professional football. He should have been hung out to dry and made an example of, so as to send out a message of zero tolerance. Is that a hard line? Of course, it's zero tolerance. If the man has put in hard work, changed his views and renounced his past bigotry then on a personal level good on him, sincerely - but on a professional level that doesn't eliminate the problems. I'm a strong believer in rehabilitation and I don't doubt that Mackay has changed, but I still think he forfeited any right to work in the professional game when he was exposed.

As a white heterosexual fan, I'm ultimately not the kind of stakeholder who's important here, and I don't think it's just about appeasing fans. I'd be extremely interested to hear the thoughts of our BME and LGBT players, particularly the younger ones, who now have to contend with the fact that their career is in the hands of a man who has shown extreme prejudice towards their characteristics. I also worry as many have pointed out that this undermines the club's stance on racism and might embolden the kind of prick who abused Dhanda the other week.

For me, there's nothing Mackay can do or say to change what he's done, and it's what he's done that's the problem. The club have dug a monumental hole for themselves here and I think there's probably quite a few like myself who simply won't be happy till he's out. That's the harsh reality for me anyway
Your opinion is less important because you are white and heterosexual?
Really? 🤔. Interesting point of view that.

[blackpoolhibs]

People change. Look at Matt Collins of Hope not Hate. He was a racist & fascist when he was younger but now a leading campaigner against the far right. He also goes to the occasional Hibs game. Lets judge McKay on who is now not then.

Dont be silly lucky, get with the programme, he should be hated forever and never allowed to do anything ever again with football, especially Hibs.

[A Hi-Bee]

Rasicm is now a huge no no, like it or not it was not seen as such a bad thing for years.

Some folk love to be offended, and rasicm now is getting classed as similar to murder or sex offences, why i'm not sure as it certainly cant affect people the same?

Is rasicm as bad as drink driving, or attacking Elvis impersonators, or stalking women or threatening them?

What is it that makes a racist worse than that lot, and why is the reaction worse?:confused:

I will say the same once more, why is sectarianism any different?

just a wee bit hypocritical of many on the forum is it no.

[CapitalGreen]

Finished 14th I think at Watford if you can call that good ( win rate 33.3 %).
Cardiff he was criticised for his signings , playing style etc , sacked .
Wigan , again sacked . (Win rate 20%) .
Ross county he ended up sacked too .

Still trying to figure out why the Hibs board would think such a controversial appointment like MM is good when they knew it was going to be so unpopular with a lot of fans . Looks a poor ,poor appointment in all honesty .

Are you under the impression he’s been brought in to be our manager?

[CapitalGreen]

I will say the same once more, why is sectarianism any different?

just a wee bit hypocritical of many on the forum is it no.

Where did Blackpoolhibs suggest it was different from Sectarianism?

No one is condoning racism and no one is condoning sectarianism.

[NYHibby]

No one is painting him as the KKK, they are simply saying they don’t like him and don’t like the appointment for very obvious reasons. The issue is people bending over backwards to defend him.

Others are asking if sending and receiving racist and sexist texts is “bad”, and for me yes it is. Pretty simple.

The assumption that everyone sang the skacel song is nonsense too, there was plenty of uproar at the time from people not happy with it. They were probably told to grow up or something equally stupid.

Part of our support bases their view of what it means to be a Hibs supporter by defining it in contrast to the OF and others. By basing a self-identity on “those guys” are sectarian, racists, etc but we’re not, they are not open to considering that we have a bunch of problematic racist, sexist and homophobic supporters as well. To the extent that the people who post on this site are representative of our wider support, some of the people posting here will fall into that description. Parts of this thread are a helpful reminder of this.

[cameronw-hfc]

Personally I'm not telling anyone to be offended at anything. People seem to do that very easily themselves.

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of saying zero tolerance to someone sending inappropriate messages but at the same time turn a blind eye to players who have done far worse, yet were still welcomed at the club.



Is it though? Are certain issues not allowed to hit home more than others without people being hypocritical?

Just because I think racism is wrong doesn't mean I accept drink driving, or harassment, I've actually lost a close friend to drink driving so it's another issue that hits home, the difference is, Newell and Boyle are two of the most active charity workers at the club and have more than won my respect BACK.

Malky hasn't ever done that, and the point stands, there are many other people who could have been hired to do this role without the baggage, it's totally fair to say you don't want that at your club, and it doesn't make you a hypocrite

[Groathillgrump]

So to sum up:

Some people welcome this appointment.

Some people are ambivalent about it.

Some people are losing their **** about it.

It's the same range of opinions that will probably be seen when we appoint a new manager (hopefully minus the racism, homophobia and sexism element!)

No appointment at Hibs (or any club actually) will ever get universal approval. That's life, we all have different opinions and no amount of bickering on here is going to change that.

I say give the guy a chance. If he ends up doing a great job the furore will soon be forgotten about by the majority of fans.

[Since90+2]

Is it though? Are certain issues not allowed to hit home more than others without people being hypocritical?

Just because I think racism is wrong doesn't mean I accept drink driving, or harassment, I've actually lost a close friend to drink driving so it's another issue that hits home, the difference is, Newell and Boyle are two of the most active charity workers at the club and have more than won my respect BACK.

Malky hasn't ever done that, and the point stands, there are many other people who could have been hired to do this role without the baggage, it's totally fair to say you don't want that at your club, and it doesn't make you a hypocrite

Marvin Bartley was convicted of threatening behaviour after threating to ruin his ex's life.

This was widely reported at the time. Did you call for him to be relieved of his duties at the club? If not then to me it's hypocritical to say McKay shouldn't be at the club when you consider the actual actions of what they both done.

[SON OF PADDY]

So to sum up:

Some people welcome this appointment.

Some people are ambivalent about it.

Some people are losing their **** about it.

It's the same range of opinions that will probably be seen when we appoint a new manager (hopefully minus the racism, homophobia and sexism element!)

No appointment at Hibs (or any club actually) will ever get universal approval. That's life, we all have different opinions and no amount of bickering on here is going to change that.

I say give the guy a chance. If he ends up doing a great job the furore will soon be forgotten about by the majority of fans.


Well said mate 👏🏻 👏🏻👏🏻

[blackpoolhibs]

I will say the same once more, why is sectarianism any different?

just a wee bit hypocritical of many on the forum is it no.

Yip i agree, some folk will sit through 90 minutes of it at Easter Rd and moan about it every time, why do they continue to put themselves through it?

Why are their season tickets still bought, or not sent back when our club have done nothing about it for as long as i can remember, where is their principles there?

[cameronw-hfc]

Marvin Bartley was convicted of threatening behaviour after threating to ruin his ex's life.

This was widely reported at the time. Did you call for him to be relieved of his duties at the club? If not then to me it's hypocritical to say McKay shouldn't be at the club when you consider the actual actions of what they both done.


I wasn't aware of it at the time but I certinally would have called him out for it.

[NYHibby]

Yip i agree, some folk will sit through 90 minutes of it at Easter Rd and moan about it every time, why do they continue to put themselves through it?

Why are their season tickets still bought, or not sent back when our club have done nothing about it for as long as i can remember, where is their principles there?

You and Since90+2 should really learn what are logical fallacies. Your posts are not nearly as insightful as you two seem to think they are. I don’t understand why you feel the need to go out of your way to make very thinly veiled defences of some pretty gross stuff.

[Since90+2]

I wasn't aware of it at the time but I certinally would have called him out for it.

Really? You have been a member here since 2014 and the incident happened in 2017.

It was all over the press at the time, I find it hard to believe any Hibs fan who was even remotely invested at the club at the time wouldn't have been aware of it.

[NYHibby]

I wasn't aware of it at the time but I certinally would have called him out for it.

Stop feeding this troll. Your previous views about Marvin Bartley have nothing to do with your view on if McKay should have been hired.

[Crab apple]

It's a difficult one. As a player I still hold Stokes in huge regard. In all my years watching Hibs his individual performance on that special day in May was probably the best I've ever seen. As a human being he's done some pretty awful things since then but it doesn't lessen my affection for him as a player when he was with us.

[WeeRussell]

It's not just those who are personally impacted that can be offended by racism. That's like saying someone who's not gay can't be offended by homophobia.

Who's 'accusing every poster that tries to explain their reasons for believing Malky isn’t inherently racist, and deserves a second chance, as racist themselves'?? All that's being pointed out is there are a lot of admissions of dodgy chat in private/WhatsApp groups etc...this needs to be called out, as you say yourself!

Regarding Ricky Gervais, I personally haven't found him very funny since about 2002 (The Office was magnificent TBF) and find his recent stand-up (what little I've seen of it) pointlessly offensive.

You’ve completely misunderstood my point about those impacted and offended. I’m neither gay or non-white, and I detest both racism and homophobia.

I never said it was only those personally affected that can be offended. I said I find it better to let those that are impacted/offended decide how poor they find something.. rather than tell them they’re overreacting etc.

Not that many are telling posters they are overreacting to MM’s messages, but I’m trying to explain it a bit more clearly given you seem to have taken it as me being on the opposite side to you.

[Since452]

I'm sure we all hope he's a success at Hibs.

[Since90+2]

I'm sure we all hope he's a success at Hibs.

Let's hope so.

[B.H.F.C]

Finished 14th I think at Watford if you can call that good ( win rate 33.3 %).
Cardiff he was criticised for his signings , playing style etc , sacked .
Wigan , again sacked . (Win rate 20%) .
Ross county he ended up sacked too .

Still trying to figure out why the Hibs board would think such a controversial appointment like MM is good when they knew it was going to be so unpopular with a lot of fans . Looks a poor ,poor appointment in all honesty .

Most managers get the sack multiple times. Worth remembering we’re no hiring him as a manager though.

[WeeRussell]

Like I said earlier regarding stuff like this, it’s about context. Who is being laughed at in the show? You must surely realise this is a ridiculous thing to say.

What is the context, and who is being laughed at in the WhatsApp messages and groups, which you haven’t seen, from the posters on here you have called racist?

[tonyrougier123]

I'm sure we all hope he's a success at Hibs.

He will be a success at hibs. Optimism 👍🏻 there’s an ism for hibs fans to concentrate on.

[Since90+2]

Most managers get the sack multiple times. Worth remembering we’re no hiring him as a manager though.

I do think that point has been lost somewhat.

Some of the best DOF/Sporting Directors around the footballing world have never even been managers. Txiki Begiristain for example.

[flash]

I wasn't aware of it at the time but I certinally would have called him out for it.

Well until he did a wee bit charity work at least.

Once a player has done that all is forgiven regardless of the offence.

[Superfurry72]

You’ve completely misunderstood my point about those impacted and offended. I’m neither gay or non-white, and I detest both racism and homophobia.

I never said it was only those personally affected that can be offended. I said I find it better to let those that are impacted/offended decide how poor they find something.. rather than tell them they’re overreacting etc.

Not that many are telling posters they are overreacting to MM’s messages, but I’m trying to explain it a bit more clearly given you seem to have taken it as me being on the opposite side to you.


OK, fair enough

[TrinityHFC]

Like I said earlier regarding stuff like this, it’s about context. Who is being laughed at in the show? You must surely realise this is a ridiculous thing to say.

Which is the point I’ve been making all along…

[Lester B]

Okay, so you should equally be called out for thinking The Office was magnificent. It’s full of racist and misogynistic banter.

Wow. Suggest you grab the other end of the stick. You’ve got the wrong one

[Superfurry72]

What is the context, and who is being laughed at in the WhatsApp messages and groups, which you haven’t seen, from the posters on here you have called racist?

Weird that you should bring this up when The Office is being mentioned as that show satirises and mocks the conversations that are being admitted to on this thread with a depressing regularity. Of course I haven’t seen them, but the people who have said they’ve taken place have left little doubt that they could be construed as offensive, so what’s your point?

[Superfurry72]

Which is the point I’ve been making all along…

It’s really not, is it? How does that justify it, monumentally misunderstanding the point of The Office’s humour? It’s satirising the very thing you said had taken place!

[He's here!]

It's a difficult one. As a player I still hold Stokes in huge regard. In all my years watching Hibs his individual performance on that special day in May was probably the best I've ever seen. As a human being he's done some pretty awful things since then but it doesn't lessen my affection for him as a player when he was with us.

He brought significant baggage with him BEFORE then, most notably a really awful assault for which he subsequently received a two-year suspended prison sentence IIRC. His magnificent cup final display, though, is why so many are prepared to overlook that. It would likely be the same if Mackay, rather than Stubbs, had been our manager that day.

[Donegal Hibby]

You should have a look a bit deeper into his time at Watford revered for his football and his handling of affairs whilst the club was in threat of going under.

I personally know Cardiff supporters who still praise his time there also.

We are talking in terms of a decade ago doing well with a fraction of the budgets he was up against. Prem clubs at the bottom have a solid 100million foundation base for starters now. That wasn’t the case a decade ago.https://www.watfordfc.com/magazine/features/the-boss-files-malky-mackay

I don't know alot about him and I just looked briefly at his managerial record which I didn't think was terribly impressive and was of the opinion he was just a poor manager .

Interesting read about how Watford was in bother and you mentioning Cardiff supporters you know personally who still praise him for his time there.

Suppose there's a flip side to everything .

I can't say I was to excited about him because I'm not and his appointment with what he's done in the past at this stage when fans are angry enough with everything , this is only going to fuel the fire more and was probably the wrong choice at this time .

In saying that he might turn out to be very good though with everything the clubs done over the last couple year's and recent events it's really hard to have any faith in anything they are doing right now sadly.

Thanks for sharing the article though 👍

[WeeRussell]

Weird that you should bring this up when The Office is being mentioned as that show satirises and mocks the conversations that are being admitted to on this thread with a depressing regularity. Of course I haven’t seen them, but the people who have said they’ve taken place have left little doubt that they could be construed as offensive, so what’s your point?

It’s not weird at all. You remarked on the significance of context and who is being laughed at.

You have no idea of the context or who is being laughed at but seen fit to call people you don’t know racists.

There are many things that could be construed as offensive that aren’t said, or shared, by racists.

Hence my question. Anyway that’s all from me 👍 believe it or not I actually sympathise with your point of view. I just don’t entirely agree with some of your posts on the matter.

[AlbertK86]

Thanks for posting that. He comes across very well. I think he will do well for us.

Great listen. Comes across very well.

If he implements what he talks about in putting a sustainable long term structure and strategy in place then he could be a very shrewd and good appointment.

Good mention of Bournemouth at the


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Donegal Hibby]

Most managers get the sack multiple times. Worth remembering we’re no hiring him as a manager though.

I'm glad you said that so why is he a good choice for the job being such a controversial appointment in your opinion then ?

[AlbertK86]

I don't know alot about him and I just looked briefly at his managerial record which I didn't think was terribly impressive and was of the opinion he was just a poor manager .

Interesting read about how Watford was in bother and you mentioning Cardiff supporters you know personally who still praise him for his time there.

Suppose there's a flip side to everything .

I can't say I was to excited about him because I'm not and his appointment with what he's done in the past at this stage when fans are angry enough with everything , this is only going to fuel the fire more and was probably the wrong choice at this time .

In saying that he might turn out to be very good though with everything the clubs done over the last couple year's and recent events it's really hard to have any faith in anything they are doing right now sadly.

Thanks for sharing the article though [emoji106]

Well worth listening to the podcast. Great insight into what he achieved


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Sioux]

This thread is unbelievable:faf:

"I am deeply offended, therefore everyone should do as I say, join my commiseration party, and cast into oblivion anyone who can be described as an offender. We shall change and rule the world."

AH & VP

[Superfurry72]

It’s not weird at all. You remarked on the significance of context and who is being laughed at.

You have no idea of the context or who is being laughed at but seen fit to call people you don’t know racists.

There are many things that could be construed as offensive that aren’t said, or shared, by racists.

Hence my question. Anyway that’s all from me 👍 believe it or not I actually sympathise with your point of view. I just don’t entirely agree with some of your posts on the matter.

I’ve not called anyone a racist to my knowledge. Pointing out their behaviour could be considered racist yes. Anyway, I appreciate you saying you see my point of view, I am genuinely surprised and disappointed so few do.

[Lester B]

Which is the point I’ve been making all along…

No it isn’t. It really isn’t.

You are aspiring to be a laughable risible comedy character along with your friends? Seriously?

No one is that confused surely.

[Lester B]

This thread is unbelievable:faf:

"I am deeply offended, therefore everyone should do as I say, join my commiseration party, and cast into oblivion anyone who can be described as an offender. We shall change and rule the world."

AH & VP

I’m not deeply offended. I think the club have made a poor, divisive appointment as witnessed by 30+ pages of debate. I am perturbed by the excuses for unacceptable behaviour by some on here.

Why is it unbelievable that some people actually care about this stuff? Why is it funny?

[Pedantic_Hibee]

No it isn’t. It really isn’t.

You are aspiring to be a laughable risible comedy character along with your friends? Seriously?

No one is that confused surely.

****ing Nora 😂😂😂😂😂

[TrinityHFC]

No it isn’t. It really isn’t.

You are aspiring to be a laughable risible comedy character along with your friends? Seriously?

No one is that confused surely.

You appear to be.

[Since90+2]

I’m not deeply offended. I think the club have made a poor, divisive appointment as witnessed by 30+ pages of debate. I am perturbed by the excuses for unacceptable behaviour by some on here.

Why is it unbelievable that some people actually care about this stuff? Why is it funny?

Absolutely nobody has made excuses. You've just made that up.

[Logie]

So embarrassing the constant negativity. Now people spamming the MM messages on every post hibs put out. I totally get peoples feeling towards the appointment but reality is that’s who our club see as best appointment for the role let’s give the guy a chance, he has baggage but seems to tick the boxes we were looking for as in a football guy to oversee the football operations. Yes he’s said some disgusting things in the past but people can and do change. He’s done everything to turn the corner and if we take this high ground approach be aswell getting rid of some players who’s behaviour/actions could also be questioned. MM is a human who has made big mistakes in the past and will no doubt make mistakes in the future as we all do, sad state of affairs that he will be ridiculed for life for it. At a time we need every fan pulling together as we embark on this new adventure, new manager and a new team come the end of the summer.

[HH81]

https://youtu.be/7G9DA3VUhc4?si=gb6_MWh4hQj31yBj

[JohnM1875]

https://youtu.be/7G9DA3VUhc4?si=gb6_MWh4hQj31yBj

Asked about the fan reaction straight away. They really had do I suppose.

[WeeRussell]

I’ve not called anyone a racist to my knowledge. Pointing out their behaviour could be considered racist yes. Anyway, I appreciate you saying you see my point of view, I am genuinely surprised and disappointed so few do.

And my apologies if I’ve included someone else’s posts in my response - that’ll be an error on my part and poor memory. If I’ve accused someone of calling someone a racist when they haven’t, I’m no much better than someone calling a poster racist when they aren’t 😁

(Last word on it this time I promise)

[AngloHibs]

I work as a bus driver on public service routes. Through my experience dealing with customers from diverse backgrounds, I have come to recognise certain groupings that I generally find to be disagreeable - for example slapping their fare down without any acknowledgement of me (hello, please etc), or somehow expecting me to know they are entitled to a student discount without actually requesting it and tutting when I ask for their student ID (I've only experienced this from student passengers who aren't white). Some are just downright rude or arrogant.

I believe that I can often identify the type of person before they get on the bus, through their apparent race or social grouping, and I am generally correct. I enjoy my work, and I get particular fun from being extra nice in my greeting towards some of these passengers as they board. Sometimes I am mistaken, and my greeting is reflected back by that of the passenger, which is fine. Most times I manage to get a begrudged 'hello', while other times I am still met with indifference. It's as if certain groups of people do not, under any circumstances, want to talk to or acknowledge a bus driver.

I will, in my private life, moan to family and friends about these people. This moaning is verbally to people who I know, not by text message etc. If my comments were seen more widely in print, then some people would undoubtedly find them to be racist or discriminatory. But I don't care, because they are my opinions based on my interactions with real people. I act perfectly professionally towards everyone on my bus, and I receive many compliments from passengers, mainly elderly ladies, about not being 'miserable' like other drivers.

The point I am trying to make is that the way I act is what counts, not the way I think or the way I speak in private. Malky Mackay sent discriminatory messages, but are there any examples of him actually acting in a discriminatory manner towards a specific person? I don't believe that there are, and I think that he should be allowed to get on with his job and be judged on that.

[Lester B]

Absolutely nobody has made excuses. You've just made that up.

There are a number of comments on here where people have stated that they are in WhatsApp groups which have racist or misogynistic content and said they are funny but excused that because their friends aren’t really like that that. That’s published on here. It’s not my fault if you haven’t read them.

[Unseen work]

https://youtu.be/7G9DA3VUhc4?si=MnBvfKPitIgNCKw6

First interview with Malky as Hibs sporting director

[He's here!]

I work as a bus driver on public service routes. Through my experience dealing with customers from diverse backgrounds, I have come to recognise certain groupings that I generally find to be disagreeable - for example slapping their fare down without any acknowledgement of me (hello, please etc), or somehow expecting me to know they are entitled to a student discount without actually requesting it and tutting when I ask for their student ID (I've only experienced this from student passengers who aren't white). Some are just downright rude or arrogant.

I believe that I can often identify the type of person before they get on the bus, through their apparent race or social grouping, and I am generally correct. I enjoy my work, and I get particular fun from being extra nice in my greeting towards some of these passengers as they board. Sometimes I am mistaken, and my greeting is reflected back by that of the passenger, which is fine. Most times I manage to get a begrudged 'hello', while other times I am still met with indifference. It's as if certain groups of people do not, under any circumstances, want to talk to or acknowledge a bus driver.

I will, in my private life, moan to family and friends about these people. This moaning is verbally to people who I know, not by text message etc. If my comments were seen more widely in print, then some people would undoubtedly find them to be racist or discriminatory. But I don't care, because they are my opinions based on my interactions with real people. I act perfectly professionally towards everyone on my bus, and I receive many compliments from passengers, mainly elderly ladies, about not being 'miserable' like other drivers.

The point I am trying to make is that the way I act is what counts, not the way I think or the way I speak in private. Malky Mackay sent discriminatory messages, but are there any examples of him actually acting in a discriminatory manner towards a specific person? I don't believe that there are, and I think that he should be allowed to get on with his job and be judged on that.

It's an interesting question. Under the new Scottish hate crime laws you could potentially be reported simply for saying something which might be deemed to be discriminatory to someone you know, in private (eg in your own home). Does the fact you would never say such things in public, or that Mackay has never (as far as we're aware) been accused of acting in a discriminatory way to anyone face to face, make such comments less offensive?

The fact he expressed these views via text (assuming, presumably, that they would never see the light of day) is reflective of a wider issue whereby vast numbers of people hide behind social media-type platforms to spout all kinds of bilge that most wouldn't consider saying to someone in person. Whatever your views on Mackay, it must have been a pretty raw, humiliating experience to have to face up to the disgust his texts had provoked and my hope would be that it has ultimately proved to be a good thing for him that he was caught out.

[Superfurry72]

And my apologies if I’ve included someone else’s posts in my response - that’ll be an error on my part and poor memory. If I’ve accused someone of calling someone a racist when they haven’t, I’m no much better than someone calling a poster racist when they aren’t 😁
(Last word on it this time I promise)

👍

[Mikey_1875]

https://youtu.be/7G9DA3VUhc4?si=MnBvfKPitIgNCKw6

First interview with Malky as Hibs sporting director

Enjoyed that interview. First thing that struck me is that he has the “fire in the belly” for the job.

[tonyrougier123]

https://youtu.be/7G9DA3VUhc4?si=MnBvfKPitIgNCKw6

First interview with Malky as Hibs sporting director

Really positive talking. Excited by this tbh. Really type of boost after Sunday I was looking for.

[brydekirk]

Watching "The vsi Sporting Directors Podcast "
On you YouTube. MALKY is on it.

[B.H.F.C]

Thought that was a pretty decent interview.

[TrinityHFC]

There are a number of comments on here where people have stated that they are in WhatsApp groups which have racist or misogynistic content and said they are funny but excused that because their friends aren’t really like that that. That’s published on here. It’s not my fault if you haven’t read them.

You should also add to that the fact that people have watched TV programmes which have included sexist or misogynistic content and found some of that funny too.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Like the absolute slag I am, I liked that interview and am horny for Hibs again. Marvellous stuff.

[HendoDelivered]

Very good interview that.

[Unseen work]

Mackay sounds like the first actual leader we’ve had at the club since Ross.

Before anyone says it, I don’t think his ‘student of the game’ comment means that it’s necessarily going to be a young coach be appoint, more someone that is always learning and moving with the times.

[Just Alf]

You know, sometimes there's no chance that's more cherished (and more necessary) for people than the Second Chance. It's a lifeline. It means the world.

- Hibs should be the home of the second chance.



This.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Mackay sounds like the first actual leader we’ve had at the club since Ross.

Before anyone says it, I don’t think his ‘student of the game’ comment means that it’s necessarily going to be a young coach be appoint, more someone that is always learning and moving with the times.

*puts £1875 on Scott Gemmill to be next Head Coach*

[Since452]

https://youtu.be/7G9DA3VUhc4?si=MnBvfKPitIgNCKw6

First interview with Malky as Hibs sporting director

Good stuff. Oh how I've missed someone at Hibs with a bit of charisma.

[TrinityHFC]

Very good interview that.

Interesting I think his description of what he wanted from a Head Coach was pretty much the opposite of NM.

[Bob Box Fish]

Interesting I think his description of what he wanted from a Head Coach was pretty much the opposite of NM.

That came through loud and clear, can give clear instructions, can adapt a strategy and can get the players buy in.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

That came through loud and clear, can give clear instructions, can adapt a strategy and can get the players buy in.

And change a tactic if it’s not working.

[TrinityHFC]

And change a tactic if it’s not working.

Mid game. Remember that?!

[Just Alf]

The idea that you must be utterly perfect to disagree with this appointment or think he's a bit of a knob is totally mental. You can think Mackay is an idiot without disowning your granny who once called the boy in the shop coloured. I am willing to give him a chance, as he has clearly put in the work to educate himself. Others aren't. Both opinions are just fine.A loooong time ago my mate got the belt after being overheard by a teacher while he was describing our new classmate who I'd still to meet.

Describing him as having black skin, got him the belt as he was to be called 'coloured'

[supermcginn]

Good luck Malky, I'd rather have him in a position of power at Hibernian than Monty every single day of the week, worst manager we've ever had.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Mid game. Remember that?!

A man can dream 😂

[HibbyAndy]

Excellent interview i enjoyed that , Sounds very passionate and a real determination to drag the club back to where it should be


All the very best in your new role MM :aok:

[H18 SFR]

Interesting I think his description of what he wanted from a Head Coach was pretty much the opposite of NM.

This was my exact thoughts.

[Wilson]

Interesting I think his description of what he wanted from a Head Coach was pretty much the opposite of NM.

Sounds like a good place to start!

[Victor]

Excellent interview. Can’t wait to find out who our ‘people catcher’ will be!

[MWHIBBIES]

Good luck Malky, I'd rather have him in a position of power at Hibernian than Monty every single day of the week, worst manager we've ever had.

Did you miss Terry butcher?

[Chorley Hibee]

I appreciate that they have to do these interviews, but I just can't get excited about them.

We fall for these words every season, only to be massively disappointed by the reality.

It was only 8/9 months ago many were saying the same about how exciting Montgomery and his words were, and McDermott was the same.

Fed up of it, I want actions not words.

[Col2]

Decent interview with MM.

When asked about what type of first team coach he was after it was clear as day they don’t want a Derek McInnes type (controlling manager) and more a track suit coach who “is open new ideas and feedback”

MM is going to be the buffer between the first team coach and Ian Gordon, Kensall, Black Knights and anyone else who faces giving an opinion..

[Paul1642]

https://youtu.be/7G9DA3VUhc4?si=MnBvfKPitIgNCKw6

First interview with Malky as Hibs sporting director

Really enjoyed that and couldn’t find a negative from that interview if I tired. It’s nice to listen to someone at the club who actually sounds like they understand football.

[CapitalGreen]

I appreciate that they have to do these interviews, but I just can't get excited about them.

We fall for these words every season, only to be massively disappointed by the reality.

It was only 8/9 months ago many were saying the same about how exciting Montgomery and his words were, and McDermott was the same.

Fed up of it, I want actions not words.

That’s cool, it’s entirely a personal choice if you want to find negativity and be down beat about everything. Nobody can or will force you to be open minded about things.

[joe breezy]

A loooong time ago my mate got the belt after being overheard by a teacher while he was describing our new classmate who I'd still to meet.

Describing him as having black skin, got him the belt as he was to be called 'coloured'

Knowing the correct words to use is not always easy.

The singer Tyla from South Africa calls herself coloured and all the Americans that hear that have steam coming out their ears.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lago]

Exactly, what Boyle and Newell done could have killed a child, Mackay has said some terrible comments in a text to his mate and went under rehabilitation.


Great listen. Comes across very well.

If he implements what he talks about in putting a sustainable long term structure and strategy in place then he could be a very shrewd and good appointment.

Good mention of Bournemouth at the


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Agree with everything you say:aok:

[Victor]

Decent interview with MM.

When asked about what type of first team coach he was after it was clear as day they don’t want a Derek McInnes type (controlling manager) and more a track suit coach who “is open new ideas and feedback”

MM is going to be the buffer between the first team coach and Ian Gordon, Kensall, Black Knights and anyone else who faces giving an opinion..

I think the opposite. I normally start watching these videos and switch off half way through. I watched all of this one because he was obviously speaking from the heart and truly believes what he was saying. My BS monitor didn’t go off once! He appears to be a forceful character who won’t suffer fools gladly and will expect everyone to perform at their best, for the badge.

[Jim44]

Decent interview with MM.

When asked about what type of first team coach he was after it was clear as day they don’t want a Derek McInnes type (controlling manager) and more a track suit coach who “is open new ideas and feedback”

MM is going to be the buffer between the first team coach and Ian Gordon, Kensall, Black Knights and anyone else who faces giving an opinion..

….. in other words ‘a yes man.’? :dunno:

[snedzuk]

https://youtu.be/7G9DA3VUhc4?si=MnBvfKPitIgNCKw6

First interview with Malky as Hibs sporting director

Cheers for that link - fantastic interview

[Basildon Hibs]

I appreciate that they have to do these interviews, but I just can't get excited about them.

We fall for these words every season, only to be massively disappointed by the reality.

It was only 8/9 months ago many were saying the same about how exciting Montgomery and his words were, and McDermott was the same.

Fed up of it, I want actions not words.

Don't worry. There's plenty on here who continually fall for the 'he comes across well', BS.

[Niffy]

That was very elequent.
Unlike every Monty interview which was broken up with "but yeah" after every inane sentance.

Actually sounds like a proper football business head on him.

Not a fan of his before, but that was a good listen.

[neil7908]

That’s cool, it’s entirely a personal choice if you want to find negativity and be down beat about everything. Nobody can or will force you to be open minded about things.

It's not down beat to point out that if you went back to the same interviews with Terry Butcher, Maloney and Monty you'd get exactly the same comments saying how great it all sounds. I remember myself specifically being impressed with Monty and how he talked about the game.

A lot of people quite happy on here to tell posters they don't live in the real world. Well, my real world experience is that these interviews tell us absolutely nothing about how likely someone is to succeed in the role and we shouldn't pretend otherwise.

[nellio]

Like what I'm hearing from MM.

Finally someone in a position of authority who actually knows bit about football!!!

Lets hope he really shakes things up!

[DarlingtonHibee]

https://youtu.be/7G9DA3VUhc4?si=MnBvfKPitIgNCKw6

First interview with Malky as Hibs sporting director
Do St Mirren, Kilmarnock or Dundee have a Sporting Director ?

Personally I thought it was pretty poor.

Full of clichés and anyone who thinks they will all play for the "badge " is dreaming.

SFA, Hardly a cutting edge organisation, they mark their own homework.

Another £100k plus for another layer of management.

If he's so good, why hasn't anyone else picked him up?

[DaveF]

I appreciate that they have to do these interviews, but I just can't get excited about them.

We fall for these words every season, only to be massively disappointed by the reality.

It was only 8/9 months ago many were saying the same about how exciting Montgomery and his words were, and McDermott was the same.

Fed up of it, I want actions not words.

It's a run of the mill interview. Nothing to get excited or down about.

Your last sentence is what he will - and should be - judges upon.

[Chorley Hibee]

Do St Mirren, Kilmarnock or Dundee have a Sporting Director ?

Personally I thought it was pretty poor.

Full of clichés and anyone who thinks they will all play for the "badge " is dreaming.

SFA, Hardly a cutting edge organisation, they mark their own homework.

Another £100k plus for another layer of management.

If he's so good, why hasn't anyone else picked him up?

Agreed.

We must have Kensell, McDermott and now MacKay taking circa 500/600k a year combined.

For what?

[joe breezy]

Do St Mirren, Kilmarnock or Dundee have a Sporting Director ?

Personally I thought it was pretty poor.

Full of clichés and anyone who thinks they will all play for the "badge " is dreaming.

SFA, Hardly a cutting edge organisation, they mark their own homework.

Another £100k plus for another layer of management.

If he's so good, why hasn't anyone else picked him up?

Who gives a fuvk about trying to be the same as those three clubs

I don’t think becoming the next St Mirren is the big picture

Nobody knows what the result is going to be but seems a positive step to me - but I totally understand thinking heard it all before - as you do get similar interviews at the start regardless of who it is


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Paul1642]

Do St Mirren, Kilmarnock or Dundee have a Sporting Director ?



No but clubs like St Mirren, Killie and Dundee come and go from season like this one to battling religion the next. We have been the same in the past but with our budget and ambition we must achieve better and a sporting director is a step in that plan

QUOTE=DarlingtonHibee;7661701]

If he's so good, why hasn't anyone else picked him up?[/QUOTE]

Because Scottish football is his area of knowledge and only the top clubs in Scotland have one. It’s not exactly an easy market to find employment in.

[Crab apple]

I took from his interview that it is a head coach we are after who spends time on the training pitch, not a manager. I think we're more likely to end up with an Ian Murray, Rhys McCabe or David Gray rather than a Derek McInnes.
It was positive to hear that for recruitment he will use his UK wide contacts to find out about a players character as well as using the usual performance stats.
And his reference to chats with Ben K suggests he may still be around. He clearly isn't sure what's happening with McDermott.

[crewetollhibee]

Good interview, yeah, but I remember watching Jack Ross interview from 2/3 years ago and thinking wow, this guy knows his stuff !! We shall see….

[blackpoolhibs]

Good interview, yeah, but I remember watching Jack Ross interview from 2/3 years ago and thinking wow, this guy knows his stuff !! We shall see….
He did, 3rd place finish remember them, and how many Hampden trips?

[JimBHibees]

Cheers for that link - fantastic interview

Yep he comes across well and clearly understands the game.

[cameronw-hfc]

Well until he did a wee bit charity work at least.

Once a player has done that all is forgiven regardless of the offence.


I think you've missed my point. Nothing will change that it's wrong and will always stick with them, but they have done more than a little charity work in the years since, directly impacting Hibs fans the community for positive ways, which has won them some goodwill with the Hibs fans.

Nothing will ever take away from the fact that they were total idiots for drink driving and as others have mentioned, could have taken an innocent life. The repercussions of their actions are potentially way worse than racist texts, however both players were already at the club at the time, we didn't go out of our way to sign 2 players who have a chequered past. Both committed their offence at Hibs, and have been here since. It doesn't excuse it in any way shape or form, but the circumstances, at least in my mind, are a little different. I don't think Malky should be 'cancelled' per se, I just think there's got to be better options out there without a past that comes with a dark shadow.

I've been vocal on other platforms about other Hibs heroes and their charges, Stokes being one, but I don't think people need to call out every single case of someone being in the wrong to call out another. Newell/Boyle done something potentially worse, but we were stuck with them when it happened. We've gone out of our way to sign someone with a very public past that was always going to divide the fans, and I just don't see the point. I think there's better options that would have more support from the get go, therefore putting the club in a better position to go forward by creating a good atmosphere to build on.

FYI, I've listened to the interview, and whilst I'm still not overly comfortable or happy with the situation, I'll take him at his word and attempt to judge him on the man he is whilst at our club, but I'll still voice my displeasure at his appointment and my reasons for it!

[crewetollhibee]

He did, 3rd place finish remember them, and how many Hampden trips?
And how did that end ? His jotters. I’m just saying don’t go overboard with an interview, that’s all.

[blackpoolhibs]

And how did that end ? His jotters. I’m just saying don’t go overboard with an interview, that’s all.

Dont worry what managers say, i dont even think they believe half of what they say.

[ChuckNor]

Strange no confirmation from club about McDermott. He’s been gone a while bar doing a bit of scouting here and there (mostly England). Not been seen at East Mains for months.

[MWHIBBIES]

Do St Mirren, Kilmarnock or Dundee have a Sporting Director ?

Personally I thought it was pretty poor.

Full of clichés and anyone who thinks they will all play for the "badge " is dreaming.

SFA, Hardly a cutting edge organisation, they mark their own homework.

Another £100k plus for another layer of management.

If he's so good, why hasn't anyone else picked him up?

You were making a decent point until the last sentence. Woeful logic. Wed never sign any good players if that's how it worked.

[GreenPJ]

Do St Mirren, Kilmarnock or Dundee have a Sporting Director ?

Personally I thought it was pretty poor.

Full of clichés and anyone who thinks they will all play for the "badge " is dreaming.

SFA, Hardly a cutting edge organisation, they mark their own homework.

Another £100k plus for another layer of management.

If he's so good, why hasn't anyone else picked him up?

The badge comment to me is important, it's setting a standard to work to and the type of characters we want at the club going forward. Our recent recruitment and management teams have not talked about playing for the jersey as being important.

Whose to say he hasn't had offers from others but they were not attractive to him at the time?

[McGruber]

Great first interview from Malky. Describing perfectly the job I'd hoped McDermott was here to do but maybe wasn't wholly suited to. Think Malky could be the best appointment for the club since Dempster from what he can bring in conjunction to letting McDermott play to his strengths in scouting and Kensell the money side.

This has sparked my enthusiasm again and now looking forward to next season.

Obviously he isn't going to win over everyone though expect there will be less focus on his past if the team are doing well on the park.

Hibs should be a wholly inclusive club and to me shouldn't be shutting the doors to second chances and rehabilitation. They should of course not be accepting any forms of discrimination in the work place and there should be no place for anyone of that nature - they clearly don't think MacKay is any of those things and I would trust if that changed he would be emptied pronto

[Pretty Boy]

If you watched that interview without any preconceptions about McKay I think most people would be quite impressed.

It's all just words of course and the proof of the pudding and all that but it's a decent start from him.

[sauzee1989]

Malky Mackay comes across as a great appointment and a superb interview. Can see why the club went for him.

[SteveHFC]

https://youtu.be/YWu9SLdYAUQ?si=taRIySjmwvT-Ilxn

Warming to him

[SaulGoodman]

Typed up and then deleted a reply to this thread numerous times now at risk of being called a racist, a snowflake or whatever else has been getting thrown about across the pages.

Boils down to this for me;

Do I like him - no

Do I have to like him - no

Do I think he deserves a second chance after doing something 10 years ago that he has taken steps to change his ways - yes

Will I support him - If he’s at Hibs, yes.

[Lago]

Typed up and then deleted a reply to this thread numerous times now at risk of being called a racist, a snowflake or whatever else has been getting thrown about across the pages.

Boils down to this for me;

Do I like him - no

Do I have to like him - no

Do I think he deserves a second chance after doing something 10 years ago that he has taken steps to change his ways - yes

Will I support him - If he’s at Hibs, yes.
Seems a reasonable position to take, I don't think he could ask for more.

[babahibs]

Typed up and then deleted a reply to this thread numerous times now at risk of being called a racist, a snowflake or whatever else has been getting thrown about across the pages.

Boils down to this for me;

Do I like him - no

Do I have to like him - no

Do I think he deserves a second chance after doing something 10 years ago that he has taken steps to change his ways - yes

Will I support him - If he’s at Hibs, yes.

Where I am now.

[SON OF PADDY]

Malky Mackay comes across as a great appointment and a superb interview. Can see why the club went for him.

I concur, I'm very happy with this appointment.

[JimBHibees]

I concur, I'm very happy with this appointment.

So am i

[Garymcl]

One thing the guy has is experience at many levels both here and down south I will certainly back the guy and see how he does I honestly think this is a good appointment from the club let’s not feed the west coast media frenzy about him let’s try and get behind the club for the new season ggtth :flag:

[bingo70]

I watched his interview this morning and I thought it had a different feel to it compared to interviews with previous people getting the job like McDermott, Montgomery and others.

It wasn’t all cliches, to me it felt like he was a serious guy who knows what he’s talking about. He is clearly a very intelligent person and I think we will be lucky to have him.

Was a couple of things that I didn’t really get it or didn’t think was great though.

When does he start? At the start of the interview, it suggested he was going to get going straight away, towards the end of the interview it was the 1st of June. Which is it? I know he will probably start working behind the scenes already but i would hope we will have someone in before the 1st of June. If he doesn’t start until the 1st of June but we appoint someone next week, will that not suggest it’s not him doing the thorough recruitment process?

I also thought he seemed a bit caught off guard when questioned about McDermott. Surely he knows exactly what McDermott is doing and if he’s no longer a director of football, we should be told that officially?

[Lester B]

Typed up and then deleted a reply to this thread numerous times now at risk of being called a racist, a snowflake or whatever else has been getting thrown about across the pages.

Boils down to this for me;

Do I like him - no

Do I have to like him - no

Do I think he deserves a second chance after doing something 10 years ago that he has taken steps to change his ways - yes

Will I support him - If he’s at Hibs, yes.

Great post and that’s where I’m getting to as well.

[blackpoolhibs]

Typed up and then deleted a reply to this thread numerous times now at risk of being called a racist, a snowflake or whatever else has been getting thrown about across the pages.

Boils down to this for me;

Do I like him - no

Do I have to like him - no

Do I think he deserves a second chance after doing something 10 years ago that he has taken steps to change his ways - yes

Will I support him - If he’s at Hibs, yes.
:top marks