442 Montysaurus?

[Springbank]

At Forfar
These tactics from Monty are from the Stone Age
Ditch 442 pls

[Jones28]

How about we wait and see what the result is eh?

[Smartie]

At Forfar
These tactics from Monty are from the Stone Age
Ditch 442 pls

I’m not at the game but where is Molotnikov playing - an out an out striker or is he dropping off into midfield a la the much criticised Vente?

[Unseen work]

David Gray will be practicing his press conferences for interim manager again at this rate

[BoltonHibee]

David Gray will be practicing his press conferences for interim manager again at this rate

Hopefully [emoji120]


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[VoltaireHibs]

What worries me more than anything is that after a bright enough start to NM's time at Hibs in terms of style and movement, the players now seem rudderless. Listening on the radio and it sounds like Forfar have had the better of it. That's concerning to say the least. It looks to me like the players no longer buy into his plan for success, at which point he's dead in the water. Also, NM's interviews do not fill me with confidence. Think the job has been a bit too much of a step up for him. And I say that as someone who wanted him in, was willing to take the gamble on his early success. This is why I don't gamble with money...

[RossScott1991]

Left that game more concerned than anything. Proper dreadful.

[matty_f]

How did Forfar line up?

[Brightside]

I’m not at the game but where is Molotnikov playing - an out an out striker or is he dropping off into midfield a la the much criticised Vente?

He played as a 10. It’s like fans are blind now.

[HIBS NUTS]

I woudnt normally comment on our style of play, especially after a win , but it’s really really boring to watch.😳

[Paulie Walnuts]

I woudnt normally comment on our style of play, especially after a win , but it’s really really boring to watch.😳

It is. Theres very little to like about watching Hibs under NM.

Using last season as an example, which wasn’t a particularly high bar, can anyone see 3-0, 4-0 6-0, 1-4 wins or 4-2 home wins v Celtic etc coming this season? I certainly can’t.

[Scotty Leither]

We continually thumb our nose at McInnes. He gets wins (especially at home) in this league, and I’d venture he’d love to come to Easter Road. Montgomery’s Hibs increasingly look like Maloney’s team and are equally as dull to watch

. Our appointments seem to be all about Kensell trying to be smart rather than a pragmatic approach, and if Montgomery goes the way of his predecessors then it should be down to McDermott to choose the next incumbent with Kensell nowhere near the process.

[green day]

It is. Theres very little to like about watching Hibs under NM.

Using last season as an example, which wasn’t a particularly high bar, can anyone see 3-0, 4-0 6-0, 1-4 wins or 4-2 home wins v Celtic etc coming this season? I certainly can’t.

I normally think you are a bit of a doom-monger (for the record, you are :greengrin) but I cant really disagree - we are totally boring to watch now.

I am being taken out for my birthday lunch/drinks on Wednesday and am swithering as to whether I should spoil it completely by going to watch our game with the currant buns afterward.

Even under that charlatan Johnson, I wouldnt think twice.

[LaMotta]

Was brutal today but was not a 4-4-2.

[HoboHarry]

Another trolling post from Springbank. Imagine that.

[B.H.F.C]

Formation shouldn’t matter a toss against that level of opposition.

Nowhere near the biggest issue today. We have so many poor players.

[Nicho87]

Any modern manager has numerous formations

This is absolutely brutal

Anyone saying different is completly delusional

[B.H.F.C]

Any modern manager has numerous formations

This is absolutely brutal

Anyone saying different is completly delusional

Do you really think a formation change would have made that a lot better today?

Cannae blame the bloody formation (which I don’t really like) against Forfar. We couldn’t pass the ball 10 yards in the first half.

[The Captain....]

These players will continue to get managers sacked imo.

Systems, formations etc may change but the same old culprits keep producing insipid, turgid football and uninspiring performances.

I'd maybe keep 4 or 5 and bin the rest if it was possible.



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[Nicho87]

Do you really think a formation change would have made that a lot better today?

Cannae blame the bloody formation (which I don’t really like) against Forfar. We couldn’t pass the ball 10 yards in the first half.

The results and performances of last 5-6 leagues I’d strongly back my opinion

[theonlywayisup]

Formation shouldn’t matter a toss against that level of opposition.

Nowhere near the biggest issue today. We have so many poor players.

I agree. We need a clear out!

[B.H.F.C]

The results and performances of last 5-6 leagues I’d strongly back my opinion

A change in formation wouldn’t have made them pass the ball to each other more. It would t have made us defend better in the first half. It wouldn’t have made Newell score the penalty as it never made Boyle score the penalty.

These players get away with murder and there wasn’t anyone on that pitch today that I’d be upset to lose.

[The Modfather]

Formation shouldn’t matter a toss against that level of opposition.

Nowhere near the biggest issue today. We have so many poor players.

5 quick wins in the summer:

Doidge
Hanlon
Stevenson
Jeggo
ALF
Marshall (possibly doing enough for one more year)

How much better could those wages be utilised.

[Scotty Leither]

5 quick wins in the summer:

Doidge
Hanlon
Stevenson
Jeggo
ALF
Marshall (possibly doing enough for one more year)

How much better could those wages be utilised.

It was as an easy cop-out by the club to keep them on. Not an ounce of ruthlessness in the Boardroom when it comes to the playing side of things.

[supermcginn]

5 quick wins in the summer:

Doidge
Hanlon
Stevenson
Jeggo
ALF
Marshall (possibly doing enough for one more year)

How much better could those wages be utilised.

Absolutely, time for them all to go no doubt about it.

[Winston Ingram]

These players will continue to get managers sacked imo.

Systems, formations etc may change but the same old culprits keep producing insipid, turgid football and uninspiring performances.

I'd maybe keep 4 or 5 and bin the rest if it was possible.



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This manager will get this manager sacked. He’s the one playing this dated formation. He’s the one playing our best attackers out of position. 20 games now. It’s clearly not working and he’s a live example of the definition of insanity.

This squad qualified for Europe last year. The players have proved themselves at this level when used correctly.

This idea that we should clear them all out to accommodate this delusional budget Guardiola is even more mental that his tactics.

[judas]

I think talk of tactics and formations is mostly tripe at this level.

It’s about the players. They aren’t quite good enough overall.

The best Hibs teams I’ve seen, had the best players (Turnbul, Mcleish Mowbray, Lennon/Stubbs). To be honest I can’t remember much about strategy or formations from those days. With average players it’s like arranging the chairs on the Titanic.

[Winston Ingram]

5 quick wins in the summer:

Doidge
Hanlon
Stevenson
Jeggo
ALF
Marshall (possibly doing enough for one more year)

How much better could those wages be utilised.

Doidge was absolutely fantastic at the start of the season. NM’s come in and he’s barely been quoted.

[TrinityHFC]

I think talk of tactics and formations is the mostly tripe at this level.

It’s about the players. They aren’t quite good enough overall.

The best Hibs teams I’ve seen, had the best players {Turbul, Mcleish Mowbray, Lennon/Stubbs). To be honest I can’t remember much about strategy or formations from those days. With average players it’s like arranging the chairs on the Titanic.
It’s not though. We are very clearly seeing quite a different way of playing now and it is dull and largely ineffective.

[supermcginn]

Doidge was absolutely fantastic at the start of the season. NM’s come in and he’s barely been quoted.

He's scored 2 league goals for us in 2 and a half years, aye fantastic.

[stantonhibby]

Doidge was absolutely fantastic at the start of the season. NM’s come in and he’s barely been quoted.

'Absolutely fantastic ' is a stretch and bizarre considering you never had a good word to say about Nisbet.

[B.H.F.C]

This manager will get this manager sacked. He’s the one playing this dated formation. He’s the one playing our best attackers out of position. 20 games now. It’s clearly not working and he’s a live example of the definition of insanity.

This squad qualified for Europe last year. The players have proved themselves at this level when used correctly.

This idea that we should clear them all out to accommodate this delusional budget Guardiola is even more mental that his tactics.

We qualified for Europe when Nisbet came back and scored a lot of goals.

Multiple players in that team today are unproven or past it in our league. Or just pish.

[GreenCastle]

5 quick wins in the summer:

Doidge
Hanlon
Stevenson
Jeggo
ALF
Marshall (possibly doing enough for one more year)

How much better could those wages be utilised.

Would only keep Marshall as back up.

We need to be ruthless and push on - get fresh faces in.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

He's scored 2 league goals for us in 2 and a half years, aye fantastic.

In that time how much out at Killie?
Or is that not suiting the narrative?

[The Modfather]

This manager will get this manager sacked. He’s the one playing this dated formation. He’s the one playing our best attackers out of position. 20 games now. It’s clearly not working and he’s a live example of the definition of insanity.

This squad qualified for Europe last year. The players have proved themselves at this level when used correctly.

This idea that we should clear them all out to accommodate this delusional budget Guardiola is even more mental that his tactics.

Montgomery aside. Do you still think we have a squad that would walk into every team but The Old Firm, Hearts & Aberdeen?

Excluding our better/less poor players (Marshall, Obita, Fish, Newell, Boyle, Youan, Vente, Tavares). How many of the following have contributed in their time here? How many would be easy to move on?

Wollacot
Rocky
Miller
ALF
McKirdy
Campbell
Harbottle
Levit
Hanlon
Stevenson
Jeggo
Doidge
JDH
Delfierre
Cadden
Mckay
Tait
Henderson
Kenneh

19 players in that list. Of who three I’d see a potential case being made for (Rocky, Hanlon & Miller) however they are also part of a porous overall defence. Then probably a case for Cadden and maybe McKirdy & Levit coming good if being generous despite paying fees for both.

[scoopyboy]

David Gray will be practicing his press conferences for interim manager again at this rate

Have you ever considered he might be part of the problem?

[Lago]

David Gray will be practicing his press conferences for interim manager again at this rate
That's all he's qualified to be, interim.

[Winston Ingram]

He's scored 2 league goals for us in 2 and a half years, aye fantastic.

Start of the season I said.

Pretty impressive that you count a year that he wasn’t even here😂🤣😂🤣

[JimBHibees]

Doidge was absolutely fantastic at the start of the season. NM’s come in and he’s barely been quoted.

Absolutely fantastic wow :greengrin

[CapitalGreen]

Start of the season I said.

Pretty impressive that you count a year that he wasn’t even here😂🤣😂🤣

There’s a reason he wasn’t here.

[easty]

I think a bit too much gets made about it being “a 442”, when the issue is that whatever the system is, whether you think it’s a 442, 4321, whatever…it’s just nae good.

[Unseen work]

Have you ever considered he might be part of the problem?

Yes, I did mention it prior to Montgomery being appointed that he shouldn’t be the only one that continues to keep his job despite numerous managers failing.

[B.H.F.C]

I think a bit too much gets made about it being “a 442”, when the issue is that whatever the system is, whether you think it’s a 442, 4321, whatever…it’s just nae good.

Absolutely this.

[Skol]

Although we play 4-4-2, its not the same way of playing 4-4-2 that Alex Miller used

[The Captain....]

This manager will get this manager sacked. He’s the one playing this dated formation. He’s the one playing our best attackers out of position. 20 games now. It’s clearly not working and he’s a live example of the definition of insanity.

This squad qualified for Europe last year. The players have proved themselves at this level when used correctly.

This idea that we should clear them all out to accommodate this delusional budget Guardiola is even more mental that his tactics.He's not getting the best out of a limited, stale bunch. As simple as that. I'm not sure how you consistently do get performances out of this squad. It's gash in both mentality and ability.


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[jakeshibs]

At Forfar
These tactics from Monty are from the Stone Age
Ditch 442 pls

we are through to the next round

[jakeshibs]

David Gray will be practicing his press conferences for interim manager again at this rate

Lets get behind Monty

[scoopyboy]

Yes, I did mention it prior to Montgomery being appointed that he shouldn’t be the only one that continues to keep his job despite numerous managers failing.

Fair enough Uw, glad I'm not the only one questioning it.

[CapitalGreen]

This manager will get this manager sacked. He’s the one playing this dated formation. He’s the one playing our best attackers out of position. 20 games now. It’s clearly not working and he’s a live example of the definition of insanity.

This squad qualified for Europe last year. The players have proved themselves at this level when used correctly.

This idea that we should clear them all out to accommodate this delusional budget Guardiola is even more mental that his tactics.

We didn’t play 4-4-2 today.

[JammyDoidger]

It's not a 4-4-2. It's more like a 4-6-0, or being kind a 4-5-1 it's so negative it's unreal. A 4-4-2 is 2 strikers playing with each other, that's something we don't do.

[Hibs90]

Formation is least of our problems. Could it be better? Could Monty have made less mistakes tactically? Probably, but unfortunately he's got players who are incapable of doing the basics right and are soft as *****. The same core that has seen off managers before and unless they are punted and replaced with better they will do again.

[CapitalGreen]

It's not a 4-4-2. It's more like a 4-6-0, or being kind a 4-5-1 it's so negative it's unreal. A 4-4-2 is 2 strikers playing with each other, that's something we don't do.

Is it the tactics that are negative or is it the players executing them that are negative? Newell didn’t try a through ball for a Hibs attacker until around the 25th minute. As soon as Levitt replaced Newell we were much more on the front foot, moving the ball forward with greater urgency which resulted in 3 shots on target in the space of 5 minutes compared to 1 (the penalty) in the time Newell was on the pitch.

[B.H.F.C]

Is it the tactics that are negative or is it the players executing them that are negative? Newell didn’t try a through ball for a Hibs attacker until around the 25th minute. As soon as Levitt replaced Newell we were much more on the front foot, moving the ball forward with greater urgency which resulted in 3 shots on target in the space of 5 minutes compared to 1 (the penalty) in the time Newell was on the pitch.

Levitt made a difference very quickly. We’re not negative, we’re pish. There’s a difference IMO.

[Winston Ingram]

Montgomery aside. Do you still think we have a squad that would walk into every team but The Old Firm, Hearts & Aberdeen?

Excluding our better/less poor players (Marshall, Obita, Fish, Newell, Boyle, Youan, Vente, Tavares). How many of the following have contributed in their time here? How many would be easy to move on?

Wollacot
Rocky
Miller
ALF
McKirdy
Campbell
Harbottle
Levit
Hanlon
Stevenson
Jeggo
Doidge
JDH
Delfierre
Cadden
Mckay
Tait
Henderson
Kenneh

19 players in that list. Of who three I’d see a potential case being made for (Rocky, Hanlon & Miller) however they are also part of a porous overall defence. Then probably a case for Cadden and maybe McKirdy & Levit coming good if being generous despite paying fees for both.

I think we need a centre back but other than that aye. I think I said our first team would, not our whole squad.

He’s not played anything other than 442 since he arrived so why would I have changed my mind?

It’s ridiculous to write off attackers like Boyle, Youan and Vente based on their current form. Boyle and Youan are asked to play as either a CF which they are both **** at or a wide midfielder, 30 yards deeper from where they have proven to effective.

Add to that, **** knows what Vente’s job is in this formation. Monty’s got him focused on rotating with our wide midfielders.

Our central midfield are given a ridiculous task every week. None of them fit in a 2. Levitt’s an excellent playmaker. Newell is a great all round 8 and Jeggo is and excellent DM. In a 2 if Jeggo’s out the team, Levitt isn’t alert enough to his defensive responsibilities and also doesn’t have the legs.

If Jeggo’s in their beside Newell, we’re defensively more solid but create even less.

As a 433, I think we’ve got a really good team with good back up options bar CB.

Marshall
Miller
Fish
Another CB
Obita
Jeggo
Newall
Levitt
Boyle
Vente
Youan

As for the squad, I think the likes of Jair, Doidge, Alf, McKirdy, JDH, Campbell, Wollocot, Cadden, Rocky, Hanlon, Megwa are good back up and would absolutely walk in to the other clubs in this league outside the uglies, sheep and Hearts.

Add to that, Kenneh is having a great season at Shrewsbury and Henderson is in Belgium an aw.

[Winston Ingram]

Is it the tactics that are negative or is it the players executing them that are negative? Newell didn’t try a through ball for a Hibs attacker until around the 25th minute. As soon as Levitt replaced Newell we were much more on the front foot, moving the ball forward with greater urgency which resulted in 3 shots on target in the space of 5 minutes compared to 1 (the penalty) in the time Newell was on the pitch.

I don’t know of a single team at a decent level that executes playing a possession based 442 as an attacking formation so the evidence suggests it’s the tactics

[B.H.F.C]

I don’t know of a single team at a decent level that executes playing a possession based 442 as an attacking formation so the evidence suggests it’s the tactics

All tactics and nothing to do with the players?

[CapitalGreen]

I don’t know of a single team at a decent level that executes playing a possession based 442 as an attacking formation so the evidence suggests it’s the tactics

We didn’t play 4-4-2 today.

It was a typical one-paced Newell performance we have seen under other managers whether playing 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. It doesn’t matter the how the teams set up, he plays the same way.

[snedzuk]

I normally think you are a bit of a doom-monger (for the record, you are :greengrin) but I cant really disagree - we are totally boring to watch now.

I am being taken out for my birthday lunch/drinks on Wednesday and am swithering as to whether I should spoil it completely by going to watch our game with the currant buns afterward.

Even under that charlatan Johnson, I wouldnt think twice.

That's because you didnt know which Hibs would turn up. Now, you do.

[Winston Ingram]

'Absolutely fantastic ' is a stretch and bizarre considering you never had a good word to say about Nisbet.

I had plenty good to say about Nisbet when he started performing. The facts with Nisbet was he was decent when chasing a move.

Decent first 4 months, utterly appalling in the preceding 15 months before his injury, absolutely incredible last 4 months.

Back to being ***** now at mighty Millwall now there’s no move to chase. Struggling to get a game and hooked after 56 mins today.

[eastmainsmsh]

Seemed like 4-2-3-1 today ?

[Onceinawhile]

Fair enough Uw, glad I'm not the only one questioning it.

Is that something you've heard, or are you just postulating?

[Winston Ingram]

All tactics and nothing to do with the players?

Players like Boyle and Youan for example have proven how effective they can be high and wide. Their numbers are great. When they play their we look like scoring goals

Our manager now has them playing 30 yards deeper. Their numbers have collapsed, they look nothing like the players they were, we don’t look like scoring goals.

How can this not be tactics?

[Hiber-nation]

Have you ever considered he might be part of the problem?

I've no idea how good or bad a coach he is but he did give us arguably our best performance of the season at Aberdeen.

[CapitalGreen]

Players like Boyle and Youan for example have proven how effective they can be high and wide. Their numbers are great. When they play their we look like scoring goals

Our manager now has them playing 30 yards deeper. Their numbers have collapsed, they look nothing like the players they were, we don’t look like scoring goals.

How can this not be tactics?

Our wingers played high and wide today but our central midfielders more often than not opted for sideways passes and floated balls into the box rather than trying to find our wide players with penetrative passes. When we changed personnel from Newell to Levitt we began getting our wide players into the game more resulting in a lot more chances being created.

[Keepthefaith]

All tactics and nothing to do with the players?

I see you trying! You're absolutely right, today wasn't about formation at all. A couple of times we got in behind the defence through quick passing and looked dangerous. Problem was the team playing at a slow pace and I think presuming the win would just come. I'd argue a few saving themselves for weds.

Monty said as much in his interview. Do those slating him really think he wants his team to play like that? He's bringing in players with pace and an attacking mindset. How many dire games did we see under LJ who changed tactics every game?

It's application not formation that's the problem.

[B.H.F.C]

Players like Boyle and Youan for example have proven how effective they can be high and wide. Their numbers are great. When they play their we look like scoring goals

Our manager now has them playing 30 yards deeper. Their numbers have collapsed, they look nothing like the players they were, we don’t look like scoring goals.

How can this not be tactics?

There are so many aspects of our game that are poor but are nothing to do with tactics.you can surely see that? Our inability to defend isn’t tactical, look at the goals lost against Hearts and Motherwell and the problems Forfar caused us today.

He’s not played Boyle deeper, he’s played him higher, and it’s been crap. He should not be playing in a front two. His struggles are from playing central, not deeper.

Have Youan’s numbers really collapsed? He’s scored six goals for Montgomery having scored nine in the whole of last season.

[allmodcons]

This manager will get this manager sacked. He’s the one playing this dated formation. He’s the one playing our best attackers out of position. 20 games now. It’s clearly not working and he’s a live example of the definition of insanity.

This squad qualified for Europe last year. The players have proved themselves at this level when used correctly.

This idea that we should clear them all out to accommodate this delusional budget Guardiola is even more mental that his tactics.

Sadly, I agree with this.

Another poor manager producing mediocre performances, results and outcomes.

I’m not sure if he’s too arrogant or too stupid to see the weaknesses in his style of play but can tell you from what I’ve seen so far during his tenure that we are not progressing.

I can’t recall the last time I saw us dominate a game and more often than not watch in complete disbelief as we offer up opportunities to the opposition trying to pass our way out from the back with players who simply aren’t capable of taking the ball in tight areas and implementing the system the Manager enforces.

[raeburnhibs]

I see you trying! You're absolutely right, today wasn't about formation at all. A couple of times we got in behind the defence through quick passing and looked dangerous. Problem was the team playing at a slow pace and I think presuming the win would just come. I'd argue a few saving themselves for weds.

Monty said as much in his interview. Do those slating him really think he wants his team to play like that? He's bringing in players with pace and an attacking mindset. How many dire games did we see under LJ who changed tactics every game?

It's application not formation that's the problem.

Can it not be application and formation and tactics and the Managers stubbornness and inexperience and a stale (good word used by another poster) squad, and an appalling signing policy and weak mentality.....

[RIP]

Been on this wonderful site for 16.5 years. Literally lost count at the times that I've read the joke about 'A complete clear-out'

Maybe the posters are the same fans I met in the chunkies at Station Park this afternoon. Two to a stall, mumbling incoherently on the other side of the door and completely out of touch with reality.

We have been so disorganised a club since Leeann, Graeme and Ross left that we find it almost impossible to recruit any player of quality. To date, we have brought in an unwanted reject and an injury-prone midfielder on trial. And as the desperation sets in towards the end of the month, the quality will get worse.

Clear them out and replace them with who exactly?
Better?
Sadly, given our track record, that seems to be a cokehead's pipedream.

What about a manager who puts players in their best positions and plays an attacking brand of football that we pay to see.

I'll settle for that. And I can't see that happening as long as this guy is running the ship.

[The Modfather]

I think we need a centre back but other than that aye. I think I said our first team would, not our whole squad.

He’s not played anything other than 442 since he arrived so why would I have changed my mind?

It’s ridiculous to write off attackers like Boyle, Youan and Vente based on their current form. Boyle and Youan are asked to play as either a CF which they are both **** at or a wide midfielder, 30 yards deeper from where they have proven to effective.

Add to that, **** knows what Vente’s job is in this formation. Monty’s got him focused on rotating with our wide midfielders.

Our central midfield are given a ridiculous task every week. None of them fit in a 2. Levitt’s an excellent playmaker. Newell is a great all round 8 and Jeggo is and excellent DM. In a 2 if Jeggo’s out the team, Levitt isn’t alert enough to his defensive responsibilities and also doesn’t have the legs.

If Jeggo’s in their beside Newell, we’re defensively more solid but create even less.

As a 433, I think we’ve got a really good team with good back up options bar CB.

Marshall
Miller
Fish
Another CB
Obita
Jeggo
Newall
Levitt
Boyle
Vente
Youan

As for the squad, I think the likes of Jair, Doidge, Alf, McKirdy, JDH, Campbell, Wollocot, Cadden, Rocky, Hanlon, Megwa are good back up and would absolutely walk in to the other clubs in this league outside the uglies, sheep and Hearts.

Add to that, Kenneh is having a great season at Shrewsbury and Henderson is in Belgium an aw.

You definitely have always talked about the squad, which is why it stood out so much. If it’s just terminology and you’re actually talking about the starting 11, fair enough.

It’s a decent enough 11. Though one that is still fairly limited and inconsistent, especially for the vast amount it cost. For all we finished 5th last season we could just as easily have been bottom 6, watching and hoping for results to go our way on the final pre game split. As well as the streaks and losing to every team in the league.

That defence still concedes cheap goals (look at the Motherwell game and the number of headers missed as an example). Jeggo is limited, Newell slows us down and the sole creativity is on Levit who the jury is definitely still out on. We’ve had worse first 11s but none that cost this much to assemble. We also played 433 and most of that team in the first 3 games.

I just think we have a bottom 6 squad, propped up by a top 6 first 11. Which levels out at bottom 6 on a bad day, 5th or 6th on a good day. Which is where we are at the moment.

I don’t see much to build a team around for the medium to long term. Maybe Vente, but I’d not lose sleep at losing a single player in the squad in the same way I did with Doig, McGeough, McGinn and to a lesser extent Nisbet.

[Paulie Walnuts]

There are so many aspects of our game that are poor but are nothing to do with tactics.you can surely see that? Our inability to defend isn’t tactical, look at the goals lost against Hearts and Motherwell and the problems Forfar caused us today.

He’s not played Boyle deeper, he’s played him higher, and it’s been crap. He should not be playing in a front two. His struggles are from playing central, not deeper.

Have Youan’s numbers really collapsed? He’s scored six goals for Montgomery having scored nine in the whole of last season.

I don’t think it can be argued that there’s issues with the players we have. Theres massive issues with the tactics and the players.

The big difference between the two though is that generally speaking, we’re stuck with the players. We shouldn’t be stuck with the tactics, but we appear to be because we’ve either got a ridiculously stubborn manager or an unbelievable one dimensional one. It’s a hell of a lot easier to ditch this nonsense style of play for something more suitable than it is to move on half a squad.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I normally think you are a bit of a doom-monger (for the record, you are :greengrin) but I cant really disagree - we are totally boring to watch now.

I am being taken out for my birthday lunch/drinks on Wednesday and am swithering as to whether I should spoil it completely by going to watch our game with the currant buns afterward.

Even under that charlatan Johnson, I wouldnt think twice.

Thanks mate :greengrin

I honestly can’t believe how boring things are just now. A crap team, with what appears so far to be a crap manager, playing the absolute crappest of football. It’s grim and nothing we’ve seen from NM so far makes me think it’ll change.

[Billy Whizz]

Have you ever considered he might be part of the problem?

SB you’re a respected poster on here, but I struggle to see how DG is the problem
He isn’t involved in recruitment and doesn’t pick the team
Not sure how he is to blame

[B.H.F.C]

I don’t think it can be argued that there’s issues with the players we have. Theres massive issues with the tactics and the players.

The big difference between the two though is that generally speaking, we’re stuck with the players. We shouldn’t be stuck with the tactics, but we appear to be because we’ve either got a ridiculously stubborn manager or an unbelievable one dimensional one. It’s a hell of a lot easier to ditch this nonsense style of play for something more suitable than it is to move on half a squad.

The way we play or set up, IMO, isn’t the issue. The fact that it’s the only way we play or set up is.

We rarely lose, so it’s not as if we’re getting battered week in week out. A bit flexibility and you’d be in a better position. I just think the focus on formation is OTT when I watch some of those players trying to play.

[CapitalGreen]

The football will continue to be boring regardless of who the manager is or what formation we play as long a Newell is our main playmaker. It was boring under Ross, it was boring under Maloney and it was boring for the most part under Johnson.

[wookie70]

I'm not sure how much difference the formation makes. If you play at a snails pace, lack intensity, play sideways and backwards until the opposition is back in shape and misplace every 3rd pass a few yards either way in a formation won't make any difference. For all that useless possession our two best moments, the goal and the creation of the penalty had nothing to do with possession and everything to do with getting the ball into the box. Forfar caused us all sorts of issues just by sticking the ball in the box and making sure they got in and around it.

[Winston Ingram]

There are so many aspects of our game that are poor but are nothing to do with tactics.you can surely see that? Our inability to defend isn’t tactical, look at the goals lost against Hearts and Motherwell and the problems Forfar caused us today.

He’s not played Boyle deeper, he’s played him higher, and it’s been crap. He should not be playing in a front two. His struggles are from playing central, not deeper.

Have Youan’s numbers really collapsed? He’s scored six goals for Montgomery having scored nine in the whole of last season.

When he’s played Boyle high, it’s been as a centre forward. He’s an awful centre forward. He’s awful on the left. He’s an average wing back and an average right midfielder. He’s a brilliant right winger at this level.

We weren’t great at defending last season either, but we looked like scoring a goal.

Youan’s goal last week was his only goal in his last 10 games. He’s got 1 assist in that time. 2nd half of last season when moved to the left wing he got 8 goals and 1 assist.

[GreenCastle]

We made an error in summer not recruiting a better keeper to challenge Marshall and better defenders.

We continue to fail to improve the midfield. Even worse we have gone from a crap 3 midfield to playing 2 in midfield.

We have a few goal threats but they either don’t get good enough service or defend too deep or have pressure to score 2 as we struggle to defend against most teams.

It’s a mess - Hibs are very frustrating right now and can’t see any light at the end of the tunnel this season.

I do worry / don’t trust the people who are planning to fix it though. They seem to keep make the same mistakes we have seen for last 5 or so years.

[Scotty Leither]

SB you’re a respected poster on here, but I struggle to see how DG is the problem
He isn’t involved in recruitment and doesn’t pick the team
Not sure how he is to blame

Davey Gray knows the club well enough to tell the manager that the fans won't wear this turgid crap we're watching for much longer, Billy.

So in essence if David isn't imparting that to him then maybe he is part of the problem...failing that we've got another manager in the vein of Heckingbottom and Johnson that thinks the fans are mugs and he's doing us a favour managing us.

[Brightside]

This thread is mental. Like top grade mental. We have a clean sheet and yet it’s a thread having a go at Hanlon Marshall and Stevenson amongst others. Someone make it make sense

[Chipper1875]

Davey Gray knows the club well enough to tell the manager that the fans won't wear this turgid crap we're watching for much longer, Billy.

So in essence if David isn't imparting that to him then maybe he is part of the problem...failing that we've got another manager in the vein of Heckingbottom and Johnson that thinks the fans are mugs and he's doing us a favour managing us.

Not David Grays responsibility to tell his boss . Ben and Brian Mc should be getting him told

[B.H.F.C]

When he’s played Boyle high, it’s been as a centre forward. He’s an awful centre forward. He’s awful on the left. He’s an average wing back and an average right midfielder. He’s a brilliant right winger at this level.

We weren’t great at defending last season either, but we looked like scoring a goal.

Youan’s goal last week was his only goal in his last 10 games. He’s got 1 assist in that time. 2nd half of last season when moved to the left wing he got 8 goals and 1 assist.

Youan scored goals playing as a centre forward in Nisbet’s absence last season as well. Not all of his goals were from out wide.

On Boyle, I agree he’s not a centre forward, awful
Is pushing it though. Can do a job but that’s it. But some of his best football was as a wing back (under Lennon) and on the right of a four (under Ross).he can play wide in a four no problem.

I know Youan hadn’t scored for a while (it was two last week but the way) but again that isn’t all because of tactics, there is more than a fair share of it on him.

[Winston Ingram]

This thread is mental. Like top grade mental. We have a clean sheet and yet it’s a thread having a go at Hanlon Marshall and Stevenson amongst others. Someone make it make sense

We were playing Forfar Athletic from League 2.

[Scotty Leither]

Not David Grays responsibility to tell his boss . Ben and Brian Mc should be getting him told

Somebody should be telling him, that's for sure. We were playing the 3rd but worst team in Scotland today based on current league placings, and we rode our luck and scraped a 1-0.

3rd worst in Scotland. Just let that sit there and think about it.

[Brightside]

We were playing Forfar Athletic from League 2.

And? What was the score when we last played them.

[Hibby Bairn]

This thread is mental. Like top grade mental. We have a clean sheet and yet it’s a thread having a go at Hanlon Marshall and Stevenson amongst others. Someone make it make sense

30 years ago we'd have had a quick pint in the pub and an exchange of views about Miller's hibs. Then off home for your tea and Blankety Blank and the Generation Game.

But with internet, social media and forums we can go on and on and on about it all night. Finding new slants to keep a thread going.

Better than Larry Grayson and Terry Wogan right enough.

[The Modfather]

This thread is mental. Like top grade mental. We have a clean sheet and yet it’s a thread having a go at Hanlon Marshall and Stevenson amongst others. Someone make it make sense

Did you post this on the wrong thread, genuine question? I’ve not seen anyone have a go at Hanlon, Marshal & Stevenson.

[Real Emerald]

I'm not sure how much difference the formation makes. If you play at a snails pace, lack intensity, play sideways and backwards until the opposition is back in shape and misplace every 3rd pass a few yards either way in a formation won't make any difference. For all that useless possession our two best moments, the goal and the creation of the penalty had nothing to do with possession and everything to do with getting the ball into the box. Forfar caused us all sorts of issues just by sticking the ball in the box and making sure they got in and around it.

The whole game strategy is awful. From playing players in roles they’re uncomfortable in, playing a formation that doesn’t suit the players we have, no flexibility in formation regardless who we’re playing or who we have available and the ridiculous playing out and passing it about aimlessly from the back will see him hounded out sooner than later. It’s not entertaining or effective.

[hibbymick]

The football will continue to be boring regardless of who the manager is or what formation we play as long a Newell is our main playmaker. It was boring under Ross, it was boring under Maloney and it was boring for the most part under Johnson.

Agree 100%

[supermcginn]

This thread is mental. Like top grade mental. We have a clean sheet and yet it’s a thread having a go at Hanlon Marshall and Stevenson amongst others. Someone make it make sense

It's almost as if a team from the fourth tier hit the post twice, had a shot cleared off the line and missed a one on one. But we are all stupid and blind in your eyes so we are probably all wrong.

[LaMotta]

Somebody should be telling him, that's for sure. We were playing the 3rd but worst team in Scotland today based on current league placings, and we rode our luck and scraped a 1-0.

3rd worst in Scotland. Just let that sit there and think about it.

The fans told him at half time with a loud chorus of boos. He doesn't need David Gray to pull him aside and reveal that.

[CB Hibs 68]

30 years ago we'd have had a quick pint in the pub and an exchange of views about Miller's hibs. Then off home for your tea and Blankety Blank and the Generation Game.

But with internet, social media and forums we can go on and on and on about it all night. Finding new slants to keep a thread going.

Better than Larry Grayson and Terry Wogan right enough.

Right enough.Earlier on in this thread folk were moaning about the negativity on Radio Scotland about Hibs whilst simultaneously going nuts about Hibs performance .Figure that one .Hibs by all accounts today we’re ***** .End of and the report s on BB C reflected that.

[Scotty Leither]

It's almost as if a team from the fourth tier hit the post twice, had a shot cleared off the line and missed a one on one. But we are all stupid and blind in your eyes so we are probably all wrong.

:agree:

[Silky]

Somebody should be telling him, that's for sure. We were playing the 3rd but worst team in Scotland today based on current league placings, and we rode our luck and scraped a 1-0.

3rd worst in Scotland. Just let that sit there and think about it.

Aberdeen played the worst and only took two off them!

[Real Emerald]

Aberdeen played the worst and only took two off them!

Does that make it good?

[Keepthefaith]

Davey Gray knows the club well enough to tell the manager that the fans won't wear this turgid crap we're watching for much longer, Billy.

So in essence if David isn't imparting that to him then maybe he is part of the problem...failing that we've got another manager in the vein of Heckingbottom and Johnson that thinks the fans are mugs and he's doing us a favour managing us.

I find the reference to Becky interesting given he took Sheff Utd up playing some great football. they then sold key players which IMO impacted on the start they made under him in the EPL. who knows if we'd stuck with him he might have turned it around.

have the performances been as bad as folk are saying or has this become a lazy narrative on which to hang Monty high and dry on? I don't remember us playing consistently good football since Mowbray. there was a period under Lenny that was good, but he also had players who clicked and with SJM as the midfield fulcrum, we always had someone to drive us forward.

sure there's been some awful performances - I thought the first half today was one of those. team at half tempo, poor passing, but that's not tactics that's players not taking responsibility, and as I said elsewhere maybe thinking they could coast it and save it for weds?

as for results and performances - IMO we've played well in games (maybe not the whole game but then how many teams do?) against killie, St Mirren (cup), st Mirren away, Dundee (twice), Celtic home, Aberdeen (cup semi) Hearts home (we were the better team in both those games), Aberdeen (home - we won, they played well but both teams contributed to a cracking game) Motherwell home...

some of those games where we played well, we went on to draw or lose due mostly to individual errors - if you red back some of the summaries it highlights how good we were in getting in behind the opposition defence, only to be let down by conceding at the other end. it is worth noting that Killie have yet to beat us despite the clamour by some for McInnes the Messiah.

for those saying 442 doesn't work, or decrying Monty's ability to get us playing attractive football, I feel that this is just lazy summation. he's not perfect and will be learning loads from this first 5 months in post, not least who he wants to keep. this view that alternative tactics would automatically make us better is based on fantasy - it didn't work under LJ and IMO we were lucky to get top 6.

folk need to get a grip if they think sacking another manager and bringing another in is automatically going to guarantee success coupled with attractive football instantaneously. the club have made it clear they want an attacking style (which Monty achieved in Australia) and that they have put down the foundations to bring success over the coming seasons - hopefully supported by new investment. the signing of Maolida highlights the hard work the club are doing to bring in quality within budget - a very tight budget - and have stated that they are working hard on others - do folk really not believe they're trying?? scraping a 1-0 at Forfar feels crap, and it is. but we're not the only side to struggle against lower league opposition in Scotland or elsewhere and we won't be the last!

[Scotty Leither]

The fans told him at half time with a loud chorus of boos. He doesn't need David Gray to pull him aside and reveal that.

Good point - I was in the main stand so heard the invective but didn't join in myself, as I think I'm actually becoming inured to the mediocrity, to be honest. I think the fans concerns will go unheeded, they usually are by those who wield the power at Easter Road.

[pepe]

You definitely have always talked about the squad, which is why it stood out so much. If it’s just terminology and you’re actually talking about the starting 11, fair enough.

It’s a decent enough 11. Though one that is still fairly limited and inconsistent, especially for the vast amount it cost. For all we finished 5th last season we could just as easily have been bottom 6, watching and hoping for results to go our way on the final pre game split. As well as the streaks and losing to every team in the league.

That defence still concedes cheap goals (look at the Motherwell game and the number of headers missed as an example). Jeggo is limited, Newell slows us down and the sole creativity is on Levit who the jury is definitely still out on. We’ve had worse first 11s but none that cost this much to assemble. We also played 433 and most of that team in the first 3 games.

I just think we have a bottom 6 squad, propped up by a top 6 first 11. Which levels out at bottom 6 on a bad day, 5th or 6th on a good day. Which is where we are at the moment.

I don’t see much to build a team around for the medium to long term. Maybe Vente, but I’d not lose sleep at losing a single player in the squad in the same way I did with Doig, McGeough, McGinn and to a lesser extent Nisbet.

This is an excellent post, could not agree with it more. Hit the nail on the head with top 6 11 and bottom 6 squad.

[Hibby Bairn]

I was speaking to a few Forfar fans and they all said they have been playing well in games but can't score. The no.9 who caused us problems and had to go off early second half is just back from injury. So maybe better days ahead for them.

[Silky]

Does that make it good?

I don't know, I never saw their game. I would say not, though.

[Silky]

I find the reference to Becky interesting given he took Sheff Utd up playing some great football. they then sold key players which IMO impacted on the start they made under him in the EPL. who knows if we'd stuck with him he might have turned it around.

have the performances been as bad as folk are saying or has this become a lazy narrative on which to hang Monty high and dry on? I don't remember us playing consistently good football since Mowbray. there was a period under Lenny that was good, but he also had players who clicked and with SJM as the midfield fulcrum, we always had someone to drive us forward.

sure there's been some awful performances - I thought the first half today was one of those. team at half tempo, poor passing, but that's not tactics that's players not taking responsibility, and as I said elsewhere maybe thinking they could coast it and save it for weds?

as for results and performances - IMO we've played well in games (maybe not the whole game but then how many teams do?) against killie, St Mirren (cup), st Mirren away, Dundee (twice), Celtic home, Aberdeen (cup semi) Hearts home (we were the better team in both those games), Aberdeen (home - we won, they played well but both teams contributed to a cracking game) Motherwell home...

some of those games where we played well, we went on to draw or lose due mostly to individual errors - if you red back some of the summaries it highlights how good we were in getting in behind the opposition defence, only to be let down by conceding at the other end. it is worth noting that Killie have yet to beat us despite the clamour by some for McInnes the Messiah.

for those saying 442 doesn't work, or decrying Monty's ability to get us playing attractive football, I feel that this is just lazy summation. he's not perfect and will be learning loads from this first 5 months in post, not least who he wants to keep. this view that alternative tactics would automatically make us better is based on fantasy - it didn't work under LJ and IMO we were lucky to get top 6.

folk need to get a grip if they think sacking another manager and bringing another in is automatically going to guarantee success coupled with attractive football instantaneously. the club have made it clear they want an attacking style (which Monty achieved in Australia) and that they have put down the foundations to bring success over the coming seasons - hopefully supported by new investment. the signing of Maolida highlights the hard work the club are doing to bring in quality within budget - a very tight budget - and have stated that they are working hard on others - do folk really not believe they're trying?? scraping a 1-0 at Forfar feels crap, and it is. but we're not the only side to struggle against lower league opposition in Scotland or elsewhere and we won't be the last!

:top marks. Good post.

[JammyDoidger]

I can't believe anyone thinks we play 4-4-2..we rarely play 2 strikers, Vente hasn't played upfront yet under Monty. We've had Campbell in the 10, today we had Doidge upfront himself, it can be written down as a 4-4-2 all you want but we don't play that formation. What we play is negative nonsense, for all the attacking players we have we barely score a goal these days. It's horrific. At least we created chances under Johnson, albeit leaving ourself wide open. I honestly don't think we would be any worse off if we had kept Johnson, can't believe I'm even saying that but i believe it, Monty hasn't improved us imo he's made us even worse, certainly to watch.

[Unseen work]

I can't believe anyone thinks we play 4-4-2..we rarely play 2 strikers, Vente hasn't played upfront yet under Monty. We've had Campbell in the 10, today we had Doidge upfront himself, it can be written down as a 4-4-2 all you want but we don't play that formation. What we play is negative nonsense, for all the attacking players we have we barely score a goal these days. It's horrific. At least we created chances under Johnson, albeit leaving ourself wide open. I honestly don't think we would be any worse off if we had kept Johnson, can't believe I'm even saying that but i believe it, Monty hasn't improved us imo he's made us even worse, certainly to watch.

I don’t think it’s a rigid 442 as one of the strikers always drops deeper, but Monty has said umpteen times since he’s joined that it’s a 442.

[JimBHibees]

Sadly, I agree with this.

Another poor manager producing mediocre performances, results and outcomes.

I’m not sure if he’s too arrogant or too stupid to see the weaknesses in his style of play but can tell you from what I’ve seen so far during his tenure that we are not progressing.

I can’t recall the last time I saw us dominate a game and more often than not watch in complete disbelief as we offer up opportunities to the opposition trying to pass our way out from the back with players who simply aren’t capable of taking the ball in tight areas and implementing the system the Manager enforces.

Motherwell we were all over them first half.

[LaMotta]

I don’t think it’s a rigid 442 as one of the strikers always drops deeper, but Monty has said umpteen times since he’s joined that it’s a 442.

Today clearly wasnt a 4 4 2 though.

[LaMotta]

Good point - I was in the main stand so heard the invective but didn't join in myself, as I think I'm actually becoming inured to the mediocrity, to be honest. I think the fans concerns will go unheeded, they usually are by those who wield the power at Easter Road.

Things have been mediocre I agree with you 100%. I think we give Monty more time but im not convinced by him so far.

[RIP]

Honestly if I see Elie Youan in his own half running back towards his own goal one more time, I will blow a blood vessel.

Monty ffs. The guy was signed as a striker. He was a 9 all the way from his school teams. He's 2footed, good in the air and when in the box, a goal threat.

If you're not prepared to play him where he's most effective then put him up for transfer. Because he's completely ineffective playing touchline tango or playing in his own half. You are ruining the guy's confidence and maybe his career.

Vente was playing behind Jair and Jordan at one point in a left back position instead of in the box on the end of a cross.

Joe was behind Hanlon twice.

The singing section were so bored they didn't sing one song.

When we scored, there was only a muffled ironic cheer.

Welcome to supporting Hibs under Nick Montgomery.

[wookie70]

I was speaking to a few Forfar fans and they all said they have been playing well in games but can't score. The no.9 who caused us problems and had to go off early second half is just back from injury. So maybe better days ahead for them. I was watching their warm up and he was firing them in to the corner of the net. I was hoping he didn't get any good chances

[JimBHibees]

Honestly if I see Elie Youan in his own half running back towards his own goal one more time, I will blow a blood vessel.

Monty ffs. The guy was signed as a striker. He was a 9 all the way from his school teams. He's 2footed, good in the air and when in the box, a goal threat.

If you're not prepared to play him where he's most effective then put him up for transfer. Because he's completely ineffective playing touchline tango or playing in his own half. You are ruining the guy's confidence and maybe his career.

Vente was playing behind Jair and Jordan at one point in a left back position instead of in the box on the end of a cross.

Joe was behind Hanlon twice.

The singing section were so bored they didn't sing one song.

When we scored, there was only a muffled ironic cheer.

Welcome to supporting Hibs under Nick Montgomery.

Youan has played wide at his previous teams.

[Greenio]

Clean sheet, win, through to the next round. Job done really. Never saw the match and agree it can be boring at times. I've seen us play exciting attack minded football at times so we can do it.

Not at all interested in hearing sack the manager chat ATM.

We have a plan and are sticking to it. Is it working just now? No. Not as we want it but that can change.

The analogy of a top 6 team but a bottom 6 squad is spot on I reckon

[Tyler Durden]

Honestly if I see Elie Youan in his own half running back towards his own goal one more time, I will blow a blood vessel.

Monty ffs. The guy was signed as a striker. He was a 9 all the way from his school teams. He's 2footed, good in the air and when in the box, a goal threat.

If you're not prepared to play him where he's most effective then put him up for transfer. Because he's completely ineffective playing touchline tango or playing in his own half. You are ruining the guy's confidence and maybe his career.

Vente was playing behind Jair and Jordan at one point in a left back position instead of in the box on the end of a cross.

Joe was behind Hanlon twice.

The singing section were so bored they didn't sing one song.

When we scored, there was only a muffled ironic cheer.

Welcome to supporting Hibs under Nick Montgomery.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/he-has-more-in-him-hibs-boss-lee-johnson-looking-to-get-best-out-of-elie-youan-1659955912000

Here’s an article where Lee Johnson talks about how most managers played Youan wide. And how he was going to convert him into a number 9. Something he failed miserably to do.

Playing him as a number 9 isn’t a terrible idea but it’s not going to solve our problems is it?

[B.H.F.C]

Honestly if I see Elie Youan in his own half running back towards his own goal one more time, I will blow a blood vessel.

Monty ffs. The guy was signed as a striker. He was a 9 all the way from his school teams. He's 2footed, good in the air and when in the box, a goal threat.

If you're not prepared to play him where he's most effective then put him up for transfer. Because he's completely ineffective playing touchline tango or playing in his own half. You are ruining the guy's confidence and maybe his career.

Vente was playing behind Jair and Jordan at one point in a left back position instead of in the box on the end of a cross.

Joe was behind Hanlon twice.

The singing section were so bored they didn't sing one song.

When we scored, there was only a muffled ironic cheer.

Welcome to supporting Hibs under Nick Montgomery.

I take it you missed the majority of Youan’s good football as a wide player last year aye?

You’ve also picked one instance out of Vente dropping in and getting the ball. What about the header he got, right between the posts, that he should have done better with? He actually helped us when he came on, criticising for criticising sake.

[Keepthefaith]

Honestly if I see Elie Youan in his own half running back towards his own goal one more time, I will blow a blood vessel.

Monty ffs. The guy was signed as a striker. He was a 9 all the way from his school teams. He's 2footed, good in the air and when in the box, a goal threat.

If you're not prepared to play him where he's most effective then put him up for transfer. Because he's completely ineffective playing touchline tango or playing in his own half. You are ruining the guy's confidence and maybe his career.

Vente was playing behind Jair and Jordan at one point in a left back position instead of in the box on the end of a cross.

Joe was behind Hanlon twice.

The singing section were so bored they didn't sing one song.

When we scored, there was only a muffled ironic cheer.

Welcome to supporting Hibs under Nick Montgomery.

by this you've blown one already. You states himself that he's a winger / left sided player - it's where LJ played him mostly and if you look at his stats I'm pretty sure he's one of the most successful re completed dribbles in the league and is having I think his best season re assists and goals, so you're talking mince mate. so Vente was in an unusual position once? once! from what I saw he did well upfront when he came on. Joe had a bit of a shocker today granted.

crowd were flat - sure the team did little to excite first half but the fans could have at least tried. probably too many folk like you waiting to moan rather than cheer on...just assuming we'd pump forfar.

as for your last bit, maybe take a break if you're feeling so negative. team might be better for it

[RIP]

Youan has played wide at his previous teams.

When he arrived on loan, it was as a striker. On the club website he was described as a striker. In his first interview he described himself as a striker. When he receives the ball in and around the box, he is a goal threat.

Today he was picking up the ball on the half-way line or playing 1-2s with the full backs.

Why waste a goal-scoring talent. If he can score goals as a wide man, maybe try playing him more centrally?

[Winston Ingram]

Today clearly wasnt a 4 4 2 though.

It was meant to be. Molotnikov was dropping too deep and was hooked.

It baffles me this debate. The manager couldn’t be clearer. He’s said this on more than one occasion. It’s 442. It’s always 442. It’s the system he plays and has played it in every single game and he’s not changing it.

[RossScott1991]

I don’t think it matters what formation Monty plays. The main issue is the style.

Passing football doesn’t equal exciting. This slow patient build on that all these young guys copy blueprint from Pep Guardiola is one of the worst things to happen to modern football.

All seeking perfection and patterns of play. When simply at this level we will never be able to execute it. Leave that for the big boys.

Monty won’t last. My gut tells me he’s just another young pretender with the same ideas as the others.

[LaMotta]

It was meant to be. Molotnikov was dropping too deep and was hooked.

It baffles me this debate. The manager couldn’t be clearer. He’s said this on more than one occasion. It’s 442. It’s always 442. It’s the system he plays and has played it in every single game and he’s not changing it.

No chance. Rudi is not a forward and didnt play as one.

4-5-1
4-3-3
4-2-3-1

All similar, and all possible today. Never a 4-4-2 though.

[Winston Ingram]

Honestly if I see Elie Youan in his own half running back towards his own goal one more time, I will blow a blood vessel.

Monty ffs. The guy was signed as a striker. He was a 9 all the way from his school teams. He's 2footed, good in the air and when in the box, a goal threat.

If you're not prepared to play him where he's most effective then put him up for transfer. Because he's completely ineffective playing touchline tango or playing in his own half. You are ruining the guy's confidence and maybe his career.

Vente was playing behind Jair and Jordan at one point in a left back position instead of in the box on the end of a cross.

Joe was behind Hanlon twice.

The singing section were so bored they didn't sing one song.

When we scored, there was only a muffled ironic cheer.

Welcome to supporting Hibs under Nick Montgomery.


Youan’s never a 9 in million years.

He can claim it all he wants, but he was rank rotten for us there.

It was only when he was moved wide left did he start performing. He performed so well the board deemed it worthy of stumping up half a million quid for him.

He’s stopped performing cos we dropped him 30 yards deeper.

[CapitalGreen]

I don’t think it matters what formation Monty plays. The main issue is the style.

Passing football doesn’t equal exciting. This slow patient build on that all these young guys copy blueprint from Pep Guardiola is one of the worst things to happen to modern football.

All seeking perfection and patterns of play. When simply at this level we will never be able to execute it. Leave that for the big boys.

Monty won’t last. My gut tells me he’s just another young pretender with the same ideas as the others.

Is Monty telling players to play slowly? He subbed off Newell who was the main culprit after 57 minutes and replaced him with Levitt who played the ball much quicker and forward more often. I think we have too many players who can’t/won’t play the ball quickly and who would rather play safe than try riskier progressive passes. Thankfully, Luke Amos appears to be a potential solution to to this issue, hopefully he can prove his fitness.

[LaMotta]

Youan’s never a 9 in million years.

He can claim it all he wants, but he was rank rotten for us there.

It was only when he was moved wide left did he start performing. He performed so well the board deemed it worthy of stumping up half a million quid for him.

He’s stopped performing cos we dropped him 30 yards deeper.

That's not right.

Youan was prolific as a striker when Nisbet got injured last season. It was his best spell in a Hibs jersey for us.

[RossScott1991]

Is Monty telling players to play slowly? He subbed off Newell who was the main culprit after 57 minutes and replaced him with Levitt who played the ball much quicker and forward more often. I think we have too many players who can’t/won’t play the ball quickly and who would rather play safe than try riskier progressive passes. Thankfully, Luke Amos appears to be a potential solution to to this issue, hopefully he can prove his fitness.

He also played Jeggo for the full 90mins. A guy who’s barely featured in recent times and is slower than a week in Saughton Prison.

No matter who he picks both CMs sit soo deep it’s ridiculous. If he’s not willing to be flexible ever in his set up or combinations across the park he isn’t going to last long.

If he doesn’t last long I just want Hibs to get Mcinnes in. A good manager for this league and cup competitions.

People can turn their nose up at the idea but I ain’t seeing much ‘exciting’ football in these last 3 managers who all claim to want to pass the ball and build from back and play attacking football.

I left the game today with more questions than answers. It’s a long road ahead for Monty to have everyone convinced, if he isn’t willing to compromise along the way in some of his baffling set ups. Then he won’t see the summer as we ain’t a stick on for top 6

All i hear is how he’s turned fortunes of Tavares around. Whilst people don’t realise Newell, Levitt and Vente have got worse under him. He’s killing some of our best players.

[Winston Ingram]

That's not right.

Youan was prolific as a striker when Nisbet got injured last season. It was his best spell in a Hibs jersey for us.
Lethal
27603

[CL0762]

This manager will get this manager sacked. He’s the one playing this dated formation. He’s the one playing our best attackers out of position. 20 games now. It’s clearly not working and he’s a live example of the definition of insanity.

This squad qualified for Europe last year. The players have proved themselves at this level when used correctly.

This idea that we should clear them all out to accommodate this delusional budget Guardiola is even more mental that his tactics.

You say this yet say Doidge was “absolutely fantastic” at the start of the season😭

Slaver.

[CapitalGreen]

Lethal
27603

Did you mean to cut off the period he was referring to?

2760427605

*The Ross County game he moved to CF after Nisbet went off injured.

[LaMotta]

Lethal
27603

He got 5 goals in 5 games as a striker. Pretty lethal for a Hibs forward.



Did you mean to cut off the period he was referring to?

:agree: in these games:

27606

[CapitalGreen]

He got 5 goals in 5 games as a striker. Pretty lethal for a Hibs forward.




:agree: in these games:

27606

He scored as many league goals for Hibs in that 5 week period as the “absolutely fantastic” Doidge has in the previous 148 weeks.

[Winston Ingram]

He got 5 goals in 5 games as a striker. Pretty lethal for a Hibs forward.




:agree: in these games:

27606

He played left at St Mirren after Hoppe replaced McKirdy after he went off early after going over on his ankle. He played on the left at Livi in 4-1 win. Henderson was on the right, Hoppe middle.

So the prolific CF boiled down to a header v Aberdeen from corner and a goal v Ross County.

[LaMotta]

He scored as many league goals for Hibs in that 5 week period as the “absolutely fantastic” Doidge has in the previous 148 weeks.

One thing's for sure, Youan def wasn't "rank rotten" as a striker for us.

IMO he's more effective there than on the wing.

[Winston Ingram]

He scored as many league goals for Hibs in that 5 week period as the “absolutely fantastic” Doidge has in the previous 148 weeks.

Absolutely baffles me how anyone could actually type this knowing he wasn’t here for a season of that🥴

[Winston Ingram]

One thing's for sure, Youan def wasn't "rank rotten" as a striker for us.

IMO he's more effective there than on the wing.

Stats say otherwise but crack on👍🏻

[LaMotta]

Stats say otherwise but crack on����

They don't.

You posted a pic earlier of the first half of the season where he played wide in every game and he only got one goal. 17 games - one goal.

Yet you are also telling me he played 2 games a striker and scored 2 goals? Thats more prolific than his first 17 games out wide.

Nisbet was out and Youan scored 4 goals directly through the middle in 5 games alongside a header from a corner. Lethal I would say.

[CocoHibs91]

I think in his earlier games it was a more obvious 4-4-2.

In those games we looked a bigger threat going forward but also very vulnerable when we lost the ball and were conceding more.

I remember an interview at some point he wanted to work on protecting us from the transition when we gave the ball away and he was working on the team anticipating the ball changing over better to protect the defence.

Since then he seems to of asked our two cms to drop incredibly deep. You see them practising passing it between each other as almost a back 6 in the warm up so it has to be his instruction.

Yesterday for the majority of the game we had 6 players passing it between themselves in front of 11 Forfar players and personally I'm not finding it very exciting to watch. Nor do I find it particularly effective at creating lots of chances as the front 4 (two wide, 1 dropping in, 1 on the last man) are over crowded and easier for the opposition to nullify.

[Crunchie]

At Forfar
These tactics from Monty are from the Stone Age
Ditch 442 pls
Brutal patter

[GreenCastle]

Does our B team play 4-4-2 or a variety of it ?

What position was Rudi play for them ?

I think it’s easy just to say 4-4-2 is the issue - it’s the predictable patterns of play and teams have started to work it out and sit off / press when required.

Scoring goals against a semi organised team will cause us problems let alone a better team.

The best managers have a few plans - ok try have an identity but if you haven’t prepared the team for plan B or C what we doing on training ground.

Example of this if we go to 10 men like we did against Dundee when Miller gets sent off the shape has to change.

[Hibee Mac]

It's Maloney all over again. Doesn't matter if it's 442 or in Maloney's case 352, it's the style of play that is killing us.

Slow ponderous football with no injections of pace. No attacking threat because everything is so predictable. No sign of improvement. Bored out my mind watching this ****.

Gutted we never went for McInnis or Robinson in the summer, two examples of relatively successful managers in this league who are getting more out of a team than you'd expect. They play to players' strengths and know the league.

I honestly don't know where we go from here.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Ronniekirk]

I think in his earlier games it was a more obvious 4-4-2.

In those games we looked a bigger threat going forward but also very vulnerable when we lost the ball and were conceding more.

I remember an interview at some point he wanted to work on protecting us from the transition when we gave the ball away and he was working on the team anticipating the ball changing over better to protect the defence.

Since then he seems to of asked our two cms to drop incredibly deep. You see them practising passing it between each other as almost a back 6 in the warm up so it has to be his instruction.

Yesterday for the majority of the game we had 6 players passing it between themselves in front of 11 Forfar players and personally I'm not finding it very exciting to watch. Nor do I find it particularly effective at creating lots of chances as the front 4 (two wide, 1 dropping in, 1 on the last man) are over crowded and easier for the opposition to nullify.

The first hslf was Turgid and the penalty I think was our only shot on target Slow crab sideways passing was brutal to watch
It was clear second hslf they had been told to move the ball quicker and get crosses into the box earlier That slight improvement was enough to get us the win
But my son who had r been fir a while wasn’t impressed and felt we are going back the way Play like that v Rangers and we have no chance of taking anything from the game imo
Newell had an off day , Whittaker agsin done for pace ,which teams will exploit if no one is helping him out
Other young guy no 35 didn’t catch my eye and moves often broke down when he was involved But given how poor the team played in general it wasn’t a day to properly judge him on
Jair and Youan showed a couple of flashes of good play but we needed more from them creatively
Doidge worked hard and glad he got the goal but keeper at fault for coming out so far snd not getting to the ball
Vente unlucky with flicked header and agree ehen him and Levit came on we were a better team for it
But with some tricky league games coming up we will need to do much better to take any points
The Bridie was also a huge dissapointment tasteless and too much pastry
Just can’t seem to get my Hibs Mojo back to make me want to snd watch them week in week out
But will see who else we bring in during the window

[NC1875]

In Derek McInnes, the answer was staring us in the face all along.

Yet again Ben Kensell goes for the vanity project and we’ve another manager who’ll be sacked before long.

This Foley deal better happen soon or he might just walk away from it when we finish bottom 6 and he realises how much investment we actually need to even just be half decent.

The football side of the club is a disaster.

[CentreLine]

It's Maloney all over again. Doesn't matter if it's 442 or in Maloney's case 352, it's the style of play that is killing us.

Slow ponderous football with no injections of pace. No attacking threat because everything is so predictable. No sign of improvement. Bored out my mind watching this ****.

Gutted we never went for McInnis or Robinson in the summer, two examples of relatively successful managers in this league who are getting more out of a team than you'd expect. They play to players' strengths and know the league.

I honestly don't know where we go from here.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

Sadly I have to agree with a lot of this. Perhaps it’s just football in general that is going through a phase of following a robotic, predictable pattern but it’s not a great watch. Passback football is boring in what is supposed to be an entertainment business. We keep being promised fast, attacking, entertaining, football. What’s being delivered is not that and we haven’t seen it for a long time.
I know I’ll get pelters from some but the last time we saw flashes of it was under Jack Ross. We got the boring, possession, bit but at least when we transitioned to attack, it really was quick and decisive.

When the ball lands in the hands of our keeper it’s generally because the opposition are in very forward, attacking positions. Deliver the ball to our free players right then ffs. Don’t hold on to it for an eternity so that the opposition can funnel back to their defensive rolls. Then justify playing tippy tappy, apparently to draw out the opposition to the very place they were to begin with.

II need to stop this rant but I think you’ll get my drift. The fun is being sucked out of the game. Thank goodness for the comfort of the Albion Bar.

By the way. I disagree that McInnes is the answer. Maybe Robinson has some merit but I’d like to see what Monty does with his own choice of players.

[easty]

Clean sheet, win, through to the next round. Job done really. Never saw the match and agree it can be boring at times. I've seen us play exciting attack minded football at times so we can do it.

Not at all interested in hearing sack the manager chat ATM.

We have a plan and are sticking to it. Is it working just now? No. Not as we want it but that can change.

The analogy of a top 6 team but a bottom 6 squad is spot on I reckon

We don’t have a bottom 6 squad.

I’m not saying the squad is great, but if you’re saying we have a top 6 team and bottom 6 squad, you’re effectively saying you think at least some of Dundee, Motherwell, Ross County, St Johnstone, Livi, Killie or St Mirrens overall squad options, off the bench, are better than ours?

We don’t get enough out of what we have, but what we have is good enough to challenge for 3rd.

Based on squads, Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen should be challenging for 3rd.

[supermcginn]

Absolutely baffles me how anyone could actually type this knowing he wasn’t here for a season of that🥴

And why wasn't he here for a season? Because we punted him on loan because he was mince.

[NC1875]

We don’t have a bottom 6 squad.

I’m not saying the squad is great, but if you’re saying we have a top 6 team and bottom 6 squad, you’re effectively saying you think at least some of Dundee, Motherwell, Ross County, St Johnstone, Livi, Killie or St Mirrens overall squad options, off the bench, are better than ours?

We don’t get enough out of what we have, but what we have is good enough to challenge for 3rd.

Based on squads, Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen should be challenging for 3rd.

Challenge for 3rd ? 😂

[Heisenberg]

It's Maloney all over again. Doesn't matter if it's 442 or in Maloney's case 352, it's the style of play that is killing us.

Slow ponderous football with no injections of pace. No attacking threat because everything is so predictable. No sign of improvement. Bored out my mind watching this ****.

Gutted we never went for McInnis or Robinson in the summer, two examples of relatively successful managers in this league who are getting more out of a team than you'd expect. They play to players' strengths and know the league.

I honestly don't know where we go from here.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

Yesterday reminded me of so many Maloney games up until we made the subs. Levitt actually did the job Newell was meant to be doing. Completely different performance after that.

[CapitalGreen]

Sadly I have to agree with a lot of this. Perhaps it’s just football in general that is going through a phase of following a robotic, predictable pattern but it’s not a great watch. Passback football is boring in what is supposed to be an entertainment business. We keep being promised fast, attacking, entertaining, football. What’s being delivered is not that and we haven’t seen it for a long time.
I know I’ll get pelters from some but the last time we saw flashes of it was under Jack Ross. We got the boring, possession, bit but at least when we transitioned to attack, it really was quick and decisive.

When the ball lands in the hands of our keeper it’s generally because the opposition are in very forward, attacking positions. Deliver the ball to our free players right then ffs. Don’t hold on to it for an eternity so that the opposition can funnel back to their defensive rolls. Then justify playing tippy tappy, apparently to draw out the opposition to the very place they were to begin with.

II need to stop this rant but I think you’ll get my drift. The fun is being sucked out of the game. Thank goodness for the comfort of the Albion Bar.

It’s been slow and ponderous since Joe Newell replaced Scott Allan as our main playmaker. Your playmaker dictates the pace of how you play - if your play maker is slow and risk averse then the football you play will be slow and risk averse. It doesn’t matter if that’s in a 4-4-2, 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 system, the ball will only progress forward as fast as your players are able/willing to play it. Boozy, Liam Miller and Scott Allan - 3 excellent playmakers whose time at the club coincided with us playing fast, attacking football. It’s the most important player on the pitch in terms of implementing a style of play.

[GreenCastle]

13 games till the split.

Home - Rangers, Celtic, Dundee, Ross County, Livingston and St Johnstone and St Mirren

Away - Rangers, Hearts, Aberdeen, Ross County, Motherwell and Kilmarnock

Would says it’s 50/50 if we get top 6 as basically playing for 5th or 6th as I think Hearts and Killie will finish 3rd and 4th as more consistent.

If we don’t serious questions need to be asked what’s going on at the club.

[B.H.F.C]

Yesterday reminded me of so many Maloney games up until we made the subs. Levitt actually did the job Newell was meant to be doing. Completely different performance after that.

Honestly, against that level of opposition, the shape of the team shouldn’t matter a toss. You just need the players to perform even reasonably well. Right from kick off we were just slack. Jeggo let the ball run under his foot when passed back to him from centre, then someone passed the ball out the park, then we gave away a stupid foul which let them put the ball in to the box (something we seen totally incapable of dealing with).

As soon as Levitt came in and we had someone looking to play forward it improved things. And for all the chat about Vente playing too deep etc, he provided a bit of a link as well.

[Since452]

Challenge for 3rd ? 😂

Don't think that's far fetched. We were challenging for 3rd last season with a poorer squad. We shoud be this season also. We are punching well below our weight.

[Brightside]

Does our B team play 4-4-2 or a variety of it ?

What position was Rudi play for them ?

I think it’s easy just to say 4-4-2 is the issue - it’s the predictable patterns of play and teams have started to work it out and sit off / press when required.

Scoring goals against a semi organised team will cause us problems let alone a better team.

The best managers have a few plans - ok try have an identity but if you haven’t prepared the team for plan B or C what we doing on training ground.

Example of this if we go to 10 men like we did against Dundee when Miller gets sent off the shape has to change.

We didn’t play 442 and Rudi can play anywhere in the attacking areas. He played attacking mid yesterday and was the only energy we had in there.

[blackpoolhibs]

In Derek McInnes, the answer was staring us in the face all along.

Yet again Ben Kensell goes for the vanity project and we’ve another manager who’ll be sacked before long.

This Foley deal better happen soon or he might just walk away from it when we finish bottom 6 and he realises how much investment we actually need to even just be half decent.

The football side of the club is a disaster.

👏👏👏

[easty]

Challenge for 3rd ? 😂

I didn’t say we’ll finish 3rd, but the squad we have should be challenging.

You laugh, but we challenged for 3rd last season. The team/squad who finished 3rd last season are now struggling with the same players they came 3rd with. Hearts currently comfortably 3rd despite being absolutely nowt special. Take Shankland out that team and they’re mince. They’re playing to their strengths and using the squad they have the best they can. We’re not.

[Winston Ingram]

They don't.

You posted a pic earlier of the first half of the season where he played wide in every game and he only got one goal. 17 games - one goal.

Yet you are also telling me he played 2 games a striker and scored 2 goals? Thats more prolific than his first 17 games out wide.

Nisbet was out and Youan scored 4 goals directly through the middle in 5 games alongside a header from a corner. Lethal I would say.

He didn’t play wide in those 17 games. He played a mixture of CF, wide and sub as the graphic clearly says.

He didn’t score 4 goals as a CF, he got 2, and 1 of those from a corner.

[thebausburst]

In Derek McInnes, the answer was staring us in the face all along.

Yet again Ben Kensell goes for the vanity project and we’ve another manager who’ll be sacked before long.

This Foley deal better happen soon or he might just walk away from it when we finish bottom 6 and he realises how much investment we actually need to even just be half decent.

The football side of the club is a disaster.

McInnes was so obvious it’s laughable, Hibs fans going mental every time he’s mentioned just cite personal reasons/bias for not wanting him for the job ‘he’s a ***’, ‘eye bleeding football’ (as if what we watch at times is not eye bleeding!), it’s also a myth imo that his teams are ‘eye bleeding’, guys management record at the Dons is basically the blueprint of what the owners say they want (regular 3rd place, cup finals and silverware).

[Paulie Walnuts]

13 games till the split.

Home - Rangers, Celtic, Dundee, Ross County, Livingston and St Johnstone and St Mirren

Away - Rangers, Hearts, Aberdeen, Ross County, Motherwell and Kilmarnock

Would says it’s 50/50 if we get top 6 as basically playing for 5th or 6th as I think Hearts and Killie will finish 3rd and 4th as more consistent.

If we don’t serious questions need to be asked what’s going on at the club.

I reckon we’ll need 18 points. So likely 6 wins needed. 3 of them are likely going to be defeats against the Old Firm so probably 10 games to get them in. Certainly got our work cut out.

[CentreLine]

It’s been slow and ponderous since Joe Newell replaced Scott Allan as our main playmaker. Your playmaker dictates the pace of how you play - if your play maker is slow and risk averse then the football you play will be slow and risk averse. It doesn’t matter if that’s in a 4-4-2, 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 system, the ball will only progress forward as fast as your players are able/willing to play it. Boozy, Liam Miller and Scott Allan - 3 excellent playmakers whose time at the club coincided with us playing fast, attacking football. It’s the most important player on the pitch in terms of implementing a style of play.

Agreed, but I feel the ball needs to be delivered more quickly all over the park, starting with the keeper. We just don’t seem to have the players confident in doing that. The punt is definitely not the answer but let’s look fir forward passes as our priority.

[blackpoolhibs]

McInnes was so obvious it’s laughable, Hibs fans going mental every time he’s mentioned just cite personal reasons/bias for not wanting him for the job ‘he’s a hun’, ‘eye bleeding football’ (as if what we watch at times is it eye bleeding).

Spot on, he was the obvious choice, someone who looks at the team, identifys the problems and sorts it, a novel idea that will never catch on at Hibs.

[hibsbollah]

McInnes was so obvious it’s laughable, Hibs fans going mental every time he’s mentioned just cite personal reasons/bias for not wanting him for the job ‘he’s a ***’, ‘eye bleeding football’ (as if what we watch at times is not eye bleeding!), it’s also a myth imo that his teams are ‘eye bleeding’, guys management record at the Dons is basically the blueprint of what the owners say they want (regular 3rd place, cup finals and silverware).

Ive watched McInnes’ teams for years, and im quite happy we went nowhere near him. Some short term success he may be having at the moment with a totally different operation tells us very little as to how he would have got on here. And obviously gow Monty is going to get on later in this season or in next.

[Since452]

Ive watched McInnes’ teams for years, and im quite happy we went nowhere near him. Some short term success he may be having at the moment with a totally different operation tells us very little as to how he would have got on here. And obviously gow Monty is going to get on later in this season or in next.

It's not really short term success though is it. He took over a toiling team in the championship, got them promoted, consolidated their position in the top league last season and are now performing better than they have done since Clarke was there. He's a top manager who knows the league inside out. Montgomery is a low level manager. It's clear to see. There's been absolutely no progression under him and he's been here long enough now to be able to see signs of that. In fact we're going back the way performance wise.

[Real Emerald]

Spot on, he was the obvious choice, someone who looks at the team, identifys the problems and sorts it, a novel idea that will never catch on at Hibs.

Yep, instead of trying to turn a bang average squad into Man City with players who’ve spent their whole careers playing a different way.

[thebausburst]

It's not really short term success though is it. He took over a toiling team in the championship, got them promoted, consolidated their position in the top league last season and are now performing better than they have done since Clarke was there. He's a top manager who knows the league inside out. Montgomery is a low level manager. It's clear to see. There's been absolutely no progression under him and he's been here long enough now to be able to see signs of that. In fact we're going back the way performance wise.

💯 agree, majority of fans just will not or don’t want to acknowledge the facts and the reality of the situation we’re in, why Hibs would not even interview the guy (McInness) beggars belief it really does, now we’re back to Maloney all over again.

[CapitalGreen]

Agreed, but I feel the ball needs to be delivered more quickly all over the park, starting with the keeper. We just don’t seem to have the players confident in doing that. The punt is definitely not the answer but let’s look fir forward passes as our priority.

Agreed Marshall has contributed to the slow play too. It was noticeable how much quicker and penetrating Wallocotts distribution was against Ross County before he let himself down in the last 20 minutes of that match.

[Paulie Walnuts]

It's not really short term success though is it. He took over a toiling team in the championship, got them promoted, consolidated their position in the top league last season and are now performing better than they have done since Clarke was there. He's a top manager who knows the league inside out. Montgomery is a low level manager. It's clear to see. There's been absolutely no progression under him and he's been here long enough now to be able to see signs of that. In fact we're going back the way performance wise.

:agree:

McInnes couldn’t be further from a ‘short term success’ manager.

He’s been a manager for 3 different clubs in Scotland. He’s been absolutely exceptional for them all and remained in post for a long time at them all.

[hibsbollah]

It's not really short term success though is it. He took over a toiling team in the championship, got them promoted, consolidated their position in the top league last season and are now performing better than they have done since Clarke was there. He's a top manager who knows the league inside out. Montgomery is a low level manager. It's clear to see. There's been absolutely no progression under him and he's been here long enough now to be able to see signs of that. In fact we're going back the way performance wise.

Yep, ive read your opinions on this a number of times. Your position is extremely clear. I just wonder what will happen to your POV if and when we see an improvement in results and performances. Sometimes football has the power to surprise us, and very few managers are just ‘top’ or ‘low’ level, they fluctuate depending on the circumstances theyre in. Dont you agree?

[Tyler Durden]

It’s been slow and ponderous since Joe Newell replaced Scott Allan as our main playmaker. Your playmaker dictates the pace of how you play - if your play maker is slow and risk averse then the football you play will be slow and risk averse. It doesn’t matter if that’s in a 4-4-2, 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 system, the ball will only progress forward as fast as your players are able/willing to play it. Boozy, Liam Miller and Scott Allan - 3 excellent playmakers whose time at the club coincided with us playing fast, attacking football. It’s the most important player on the pitch in terms of implementing a style of play.

Although I agree with your criticism of Newell I think this is a bit simplistic.

The good teams that Boozy, Miller, Allan played in all had patterns of play and a cutting edge. Most of them involved full backs getting forward and runners from midfield. A bit of balance and structure.

If we replace Joe Newell with a top player in this current set up we’ll still be rubbish IMO. As the players are static and the movement is slow and deliberate all over the park.

Replace Newell yes, but that would just be the start

[WhileTheChief..]

:agree:

McInnes couldn’t be further from a ‘short term success’ manager.

He’s been a manager for 3 different clubs in Scotland. He’s been absolutely exceptional for them all and remained in post for a long time at them all.

Yup.

Probably be the next Scotland manager.

[Brightside]

Agreed Marshall has contributed to the slow play too. It was noticeable how much quicker and penetrating Wallocotts distribution was against Ross County before he let himself down in the last 20 minutes of that match.

Jesus that’s a hefty stretch 😂

[TrinityHFC]

We didn’t play 442 and Rudi can play anywhere in the attacking areas. He played attacking mid yesterday and was the only energy we had in there.

That’s is how we play the 442 though.

It can change from playing 2 strikers, to one of them being a winger normally, to one of them being a midfielder naturally. We’ve done all of those things , but it is the same 442 that the manager has been very clear that we will play.

Forget what players are in there, it is just how we play.

[Since452]

Yep, ive read your opinions on this a number of times. Your position is extremely clear. I just wonder what will happen to your POV if and when we see an improvement in results and performances. Sometimes football has the power to surprise us, and very few managers are just ‘top’ or ‘low’ level, they fluctuate depending on the circumstances theyre in. Dont you agree?

My point of view would change if our performances improved. I just can't see it happening under this manager unfortunately. Think it was a ludicrous appointment. If you have inexperienced people upstairs then you need an experienced manager. I think a competent, experienced manager who knows our league would be the way to go. The football certainly wouldn't be any worse.

[Brightside]

That’s is how we play the 442 though.

It can change from playing 2 strikers, to one of them being a winger normally, to one of them being a midfielder naturally. We’ve done all of those things , but it is the same 442 that the manager has been very clear that we will play.

Forget what players are in there, it is just how we play.

It visibly changed when rudi was swapped out for Vente.

[LaMotta]

That’s is how we play the 442 though.

It can change from playing 2 strikers, to one of them being a winger normally, to one of them being a midfielder naturally. We’ve done all of those things , but it is the same 442 that the manager has been very clear that we will play.

Forget what players are in there, it is just how we play.

It wasnt a 4-4-2 yesterday that started the match. What you are saying is we play a 4-4-2 by using a different formation, which doesnt make sense.

[LaMotta]

It visibly changed when rudi was swapped out for Vente.

:agree:

BBC has it as a 4-2-3-1 that we started with.

27609

You could potentially call it a 4-5-1 or a 4-3-3 or even a 4-4-1-1.

I've no idea how people are still saying it was 4-4-2.

[CapitalGreen]

Although I agree with your criticism of Newell I think this is a bit simplistic.

The good teams that Boozy, Miller, Allan played in all had patterns of play and a cutting edge. Most of them involved full backs getting forward and runners from midfield. A bit of balance and structure.

If we replace Joe Newell with a top player in this current set up we’ll still be rubbish IMO. As the players are static and the movement is slow and deliberate all over the park.

Replace Newell yes, but that would just be the start

Is that not a bit of a chicken and egg scenario. Players are going to be reluctant to make forward runs if they know they won’t receive a pass or the ball will be played behind them rather than into the space for them to run on to. We know Youan, Jair, Obita, Boyle, Vente are more than capable of making forward runs but if you have no one willing or able to play forward, penetrative passes to them then they are naturally going to come deeper to look for the ball. Our midfield is too risk averse and would rather recycle possession than try and break the lines with a pass.

[RossScott1991]

Mciness would be a terrific appointment. I’m all for it should it come to it again. These projects with this passing football isn’t proving to be particularly entertaining.

Get a guy in who knows league inside out, knows what you need to get solid results.

[Real Emerald]

Is that not a bit of a chicken and egg scenario. Players are going to be reluctant to make forward runs if they know they won’t receive a pass or the ball will be played behind them rather than into the space for them to run on to. We know Youan, Jair, Obita, Boyle, Vente are more than capable of making forward runs but if you have no one willing or able to play forward, penetrative passes to them then they are naturally going to come deeper to look for the ball. Our midfield is too risk averse and would rather recycle possession than try and break the lines with a pass.

That’s how I see it, the players have been re wired so their whole approach to games has changed in exactly the way you describe. They are now scared to take risks and play forward attacking football. Where do we go from here?

[jakeshibs]

I find the reference to Becky interesting given he took Sheff Utd up playing some great football. they then sold key players which IMO impacted on the start they made under him in the EPL. who knows if we'd stuck with him he might have turned it around.

have the performances been as bad as folk are saying or has this become a lazy narrative on which to hang Monty high and dry on? I don't remember us playing consistently good football since Mowbray. there was a period under Lenny that was good, but he also had players who clicked and with SJM as the midfield fulcrum, we always had someone to drive us forward.

sure there's been some awful performances - I thought the first half today was one of those. team at half tempo, poor passing, but that's not tactics that's players not taking responsibility, and as I said elsewhere maybe thinking they could coast it and save it for weds?

as for results and performances - IMO we've played well in games (maybe not the whole game but then how many teams do?) against killie, St Mirren (cup), st Mirren away, Dundee (twice), Celtic home, Aberdeen (cup semi) Hearts home (we were the better team in both those games), Aberdeen (home - we won, they played well but both teams contributed to a cracking game) Motherwell home...

some of those games where we played well, we went on to draw or lose due mostly to individual errors - if you red back some of the summaries it highlights how good we were in getting in behind the opposition defence, only to be let down by conceding at the other end. it is worth noting that Killie have yet to beat us despite the clamour by some for McInnes the Messiah.

for those saying 442 doesn't work, or decrying Monty's ability to get us playing attractive football, I feel that this is just lazy summation. he's not perfect and will be learning loads from this first 5 months in post, not least who he wants to keep. this view that alternative tactics would automatically make us better is based on fantasy - it didn't work under LJ and IMO we were lucky to get top 6.

folk need to get a grip if they think sacking another manager and bringing another in is automatically going to guarantee success coupled with attractive football instantaneously. the club have made it clear they want an attacking style (which Monty achieved in Australia) and that they have put down the foundations to bring success over the coming seasons - hopefully supported by new investment. the signing of Maolida highlights the hard work the club are doing to bring in quality within budget - a very tight budget - and have stated that they are working hard on others - do folk really not believe they're trying?? scraping a 1-0 at Forfar feels crap, and it is. but we're not the only side to struggle against lower league opposition in Scotland or elsewhere and we won't be the last!


Well said sir good balanced assessment which i totally agree with

[HIBS NUTS]

We could argue, why and how, but we are exceptionally boring to watch.
I don’t think many fans would argue with that
If this continues, the fans patience, will run out AGain.😔

[LaMotta]

Mciness would be a terrific appointment. I’m all for it should it come to it again. These projects with this passing football isn’t proving to be particularly entertaining.

Get a guy in who knows league inside out, knows what you need to get solid results.

The best time to get McInnes was when we bizaarely went for Maloney. DM was unattached at that time.

I think the board paid too much attention to some fans saying they didn't want DM cos he was just another boring Jack Ross.

So we got rid of a manager who consistently got us to Hampden and had secured a high league position and instead of replacing him with a manager who had consistently got to Hampden and secured high league finishes, we instead employed a total rookie who talked (poorly) about fanciful ways of playing mythical exciting football to pacify a delusional section of our fanbase.:dizzy:

[JimBHibees]

The best time to get McInnes was when we bizaarely went for Maloney. DM was unattached at that time.

I think the board paid too much attention to some fans saying they didn't want DM cos he was just another boring Jack Ross.

So we got rid of a manager who consistently got us to Hampden and had secured a high league position and instead of replacing him with a manager who had consistently got to Hampden and secured high league finishes, we instead employed a total rookie who talked (poorly) about fanciful ways of playing mythical exciting football to pacify a delusional section of our fanbase.:dizzy:

Yep should have been approached when he didn't have a job. Maybe he was and turned it down no idea.

[LaMotta]

Yep should have been approached when he didn't have a job. Maybe he was and turned it down no idea.

McInnes took the Killie job 2 weeks after we appointed Maloney. Surely he would have preferred the Hibs job if that had been on offer???

[CapitalGreen]

That’s how I see it, the players have been re wired so their whole approach to games has changed in exactly the way you describe. They are now scared to take risks and play forward attacking football. Where do we go from here?

The solution is to find/play players who are confident/capable of playing that type of football. Levitt was such a player for the final half hour yesterday and did that role well for Dundee Utd when he had Jeandro Fuchs doing his dirty work. I’m not sure we are utilising him well having him doing the dirty work while Newell plays at being a playmaker. Could Amos and Levitt be a more forward thinking midfield pairing?

[CapitalGreen]

McInnes took the Killie job 2 weeks after we appointed Maloney. Surely he would have preferred the Hibs job if that had been on offer???

There was chat at the time that he had no interest in the Hibs job as he wanted somewhere where he felt he’d have more job security.

[LaMotta]

There was chat at the time that he had no interest in the Hibs job as he wanted somewhere where he felt he’d have more job security.

Possibility. Shows the problems you bring on as a club when you unfairly sack a manager who has done well.

[degenerated]

[emoji817] agree, majority of fans just will not or don’t want to acknowledge the facts and the reality of the situation we’re in, why Hibs would not even interview the guy (McInness) beggars belief it really does, now we’re back to Maloney all over again.Why would McInness want to come to Hibs when all it takes is a couple of league defeats or only getting though a cup tie by 1 goal before folk would want him sacked.

[JimBHibees]

I find the reference to Becky interesting given he took Sheff Utd up playing some great football. they then sold key players which IMO impacted on the start they made under him in the EPL. who knows if we'd stuck with him he might have turned it around.

have the performances been as bad as folk are saying or has this become a lazy narrative on which to hang Monty high and dry on? I don't remember us playing consistently good football since Mowbray. there was a period under Lenny that was good, but he also had players who clicked and with SJM as the midfield fulcrum, we always had someone to drive us forward.

sure there's been some awful performances - I thought the first half today was one of those. team at half tempo, poor passing, but that's not tactics that's players not taking responsibility, and as I said elsewhere maybe thinking they could coast it and save it for weds?

as for results and performances - IMO we've played well in games (maybe not the whole game but then how many teams do?) against killie, St Mirren (cup), st Mirren away, Dundee (twice), Celtic home, Aberdeen (cup semi) Hearts home (we were the better team in both those games), Aberdeen (home - we won, they played well but both teams contributed to a cracking game) Motherwell home...

some of those games where we played well, we went on to draw or lose due mostly to individual errors - if you red back some of the summaries it highlights how good we were in getting in behind the opposition defence, only to be let down by conceding at the other end. it is worth noting that Killie have yet to beat us despite the clamour by some for McInnes the Messiah.

for those saying 442 doesn't work, or decrying Monty's ability to get us playing attractive football, I feel that this is just lazy summation. he's not perfect and will be learning loads from this first 5 months in post, not least who he wants to keep. this view that alternative tactics would automatically make us better is based on fantasy - it didn't work under LJ and IMO we were lucky to get top 6.

folk need to get a grip if they think sacking another manager and bringing another in is automatically going to guarantee success coupled with attractive football instantaneously. the club have made it clear they want an attacking style (which Monty achieved in Australia) and that they have put down the foundations to bring success over the coming seasons - hopefully supported by new investment. the signing of Maolida highlights the hard work the club are doing to bring in quality within budget - a very tight budget - and have stated that they are working hard on others - do folk really not believe they're trying?? scraping a 1-0 at Forfar feels crap, and it is. but we're not the only side to struggle against lower league opposition in Scotland or elsewhere and we won't be the last!

Excellent post totally agree. The lack of patience for a guy who has had no preseason or window is sad to see imo. Give the guy a proper chance

[Northernhibee]

I can’t help feeling that we’re in the same 2010-2014 tailspin that we had under Petrie. Things just feeling off at the club, a sense of disengagement, a poor squad, poor recruitment, poor football, and a never ending rotation of managers coming in and not being able to implement the style of football that they want to.

I thought the same back then as I do now - there is lots not working at the club and we were more obsessed with our balance sheets and KPIs than the actual football. Under Petrie it was the outgoings we obsessed over and under IG/BK it appears to be the money coming in but the result is the same - a poor footballing product.

Dempster and Mathie seemed to bring renewed focus back onto the product on the pitch and we reaped dividends from it.

Before we think about new managers we need to get a proper focus back onto the product on the pitch, recruitment strategy and so forth. I don’t think McDermott alone is enough for that so we need to freshen things up behind the scenes. The state of the squad as of late is a bad joke. With an international call up, we’ve got a sixteen year old at right back.

Otherwise we’ll keep setting back managers in their careers and we’ll be a less appealing option to join and the spiral continues. We’re not too big to be relegated nor can we guarantee buying ourselves out of that position in the seasons ahead.

The setup just now is stale and not working but it’s not beyond rescue just yet.

[green day]

There was chat at the time that he had no interest in the Hibs job as he wanted somewhere where he felt he’d have more job security.

I dont believe that (not having a pop at you, by the way).

That would suggest that he just wanted to cruise.

[Smartie]

McInnes took the Killie job 2 weeks after we appointed Maloney. Surely he would have preferred the Hibs job if that had been on offer???

I think it’s been said a few times about how handy Killie is for where McInnes was staying. It sounds daft, but our training ground is on the other side of Edinburgh, which would involve either uprooting or a commute that would be a bit of a pain in the arse. Given our record at churning through managers and given he’s probably earned enough throughout his career to be financially secure, is it that much more attractive for him to go to Hibs than Killie?

I’d be amazed if an informal approach wasn’t made and he turned us down.

[J-C]

It's meant to be a fluid 442 with players moving around finding/filling space, this usually means one striker drops deeper to fill the gap between the midfield, unfortunately Vente has been that player which negates his quality in the box, before his injury ALF was that man and it worked well. Again we're seeing the shortcomings of a paper thin squad with little options on the bench and one or 2 players just not good enough for the general all round play we need, Youan in particular as his defensive side of the game is poor, compared to Jair who's thrived since Monty came in.

[J-C]

I dont believe that (not having a pop at you, by the way).

That would suggest that he just wanted to cruise.

Or that he seen us as a club that pulls the trigger after a short time if things don't go well, managers needs time to implement their style and one window is not enough to do this.

[jakeshibs]

Mciness would be a terrific appointment. I’m all for it should it come to it again. These projects with this passing football isn’t proving to be particularly entertaining.

Get a guy in who knows league inside out, knows what you need to get solid results.

why would McInnes come to Hibs? as he knows after a couple of poor results he would be hounded out by the fans and this will affect his future, as mentioned elsewhere think he sees the hibs appointment as a poisoned chalice.

[easty]

It's meant to be a fluid 442 with players moving around finding/filling space, this usually means one striker drops deeper to fill the gap between the midfield, unfortunately Vente has been that player which negates his quality in the box, before his injury ALF was that man and it worked well. Again we're seeing the shortcomings of a paper thin squad with little options on the bench and one or 2 players just not good enough for the general all round play we need, Youan in particular as his defensive side of the game is poor, compared to Jair who's thrived since Monty came in.

This is the squad he has (paper thin or not). These are the players he has. If the players, who are available, can’t play the way you want them to play, you have to get the best you can get out of them. Shoehorning players into roles they don’t fit isn’t the sign of a good manager.

[easty]

why would McInnes come to Hibs? as he knows after a couple of poor results he would be hounded out by the fans and this will affect his future, as mentioned elsewhere think he sees the hibs appointment as a poisoned chalice.

Do you seriously believe that McInnes would rather be Killie manager than Hibs manager?

Not a chance in my opinion.

[J-C]

This is the squad he has (paper thin or not). These are the players he has. If the players, who are available, can’t play the way you want them to play, you have to get the best you can get out of them. Shoehorning players into roles they don’t fit isn’t the sign of a good manager.

I still think the players, or the majority of them are bang average and it's been seen for a long while now, they should be able to play in any system if they are good enough.

[GreenPJ]

In his 14 years managing in Scotland McInnes honours as manager are:

Scottish First Division (2008 - St Johnstone)
Scottish League Cup (2013 - Aberdeen)
Scottish Championship (2021 - Kilmarnock)

He has obviously had a number of league finishes that have been in top 3 which is decent but ultimately not honours.

Maybe we should give NM at least one or two years in Scotland before we start comparing him to a seasoned manager who is held in high regard by lots of people and the media but ultimately does not have a hugely impressive honours record (Callum Davidson has achieved 2 honours in 3 years of management - am not proposing that the club should have looked at him).

[Mikey_1875]

The solution is to find/play players who are confident/capable of playing that type of football. Levitt was such a player for the final half hour yesterday and did that role well for Dundee Utd when he had Jeandro Fuchs doing his dirty work. I’m not sure we are utilising him well having him doing the dirty work while Newell plays at being a playmaker. Could Amos and Levitt be a more forward thinking midfield pairing?

That’s certainly not my impression of how our midfield two are set up. Levitt already has Joe doing most of the running and he has struggled to find his feet so far albeit showing glimpses of the passes he can make. Was Levitt doing the dirty work at St Johnstone while Jeggo was our playmaker? It’s an isolated example but if it was the case that Levitts role had switched for that game I never noted any changes in his performance as a result of it.

He is equally responsible for our slow play along with Newell and the centre halves imo.

[easty]

I find the reference to Becky interesting given he took Sheff Utd up playing some great football. they then sold key players which IMO impacted on the start they made under him in the EPL. who knows if we'd stuck with him he might have turned it around.

have the performances been as bad as folk are saying or has this become a lazy narrative on which to hang Monty high and dry on? I don't remember us playing consistently good football since Mowbray. there was a period under Lenny that was good, but he also had players who clicked and with SJM as the midfield fulcrum, we always had someone to drive us forward.

sure there's been some awful performances - I thought the first half today was one of those. team at half tempo, poor passing, but that's not tactics that's players not taking responsibility, and as I said elsewhere maybe thinking they could coast it and save it for weds?

as for results and performances - IMO we've played well in games (maybe not the whole game but then how many teams do?) against killie, St Mirren (cup), st Mirren away, Dundee (twice), Celtic home, Aberdeen (cup semi) Hearts home (we were the better team in both those games), Aberdeen (home - we won, they played well but both teams contributed to a cracking game) Motherwell home...

some of those games where we played well, we went on to draw or lose due mostly to individual errors - if you red back some of the summaries it highlights how good we were in getting in behind the opposition defence, only to be let down by conceding at the other end. it is worth noting that Killie have yet to beat us despite the clamour by some for McInnes the Messiah.

for those saying 442 doesn't work, or decrying Monty's ability to get us playing attractive football, I feel that this is just lazy summation. he's not perfect and will be learning loads from this first 5 months in post, not least who he wants to keep. this view that alternative tactics would automatically make us better is based on fantasy - it didn't work under LJ and IMO we were lucky to get top 6.

folk need to get a grip if they think sacking another manager and bringing another in is automatically going to guarantee success coupled with attractive football instantaneously. the club have made it clear they want an attacking style (which Monty achieved in Australia) and that they have put down the foundations to bring success over the coming seasons - hopefully supported by new investment. the signing of Maolida highlights the hard work the club are doing to bring in quality within budget - a very tight budget - and have stated that they are working hard on others - do folk really not believe they're trying?? scraping a 1-0 at Forfar feels crap, and it is. but we're not the only side to struggle against lower league opposition in Scotland or elsewhere and we won't be the last!

We weren’t lucky to finish top 6. The league is measured over a long period and you end up where you deserve to end up.

[LaMotta]

I think it’s been said a few times about how handy Killie is for where McInnes was staying. It sounds daft, but our training ground is on the other side of Edinburgh, which would involve either uprooting or a commute that would be a bit of a pain in the arse. Given our record at churning through managers and given he’s probably earned enough throughout his career to be financially secure, is it that much more attractive for him to go to Hibs than Killie?

I’d be amazed if an informal approach wasn’t made and he turned us down.

Yeah you could be right mate.

[wookie70]

It's meant to be a fluid 442 with players moving around finding/filling space, this usually means one striker drops deeper to fill the gap between the midfield, unfortunately Vente has been that player which negates his quality in the box, before his injury ALF was that man and it worked well. Again we're seeing the shortcomings of a paper thin squad with little options on the bench and one or 2 players just not good enough for the general all round play we need, Youan in particular as his defensive side of the game is poor, compared to Jair who's thrived since Monty came in.

Vente does move around or drop back but the rest of the team is like bar football. We are so easy to play against. We had a little success with Whittaker and Youan playing 1-2s and Jair taking his man on but we do it so infrequently it means we create very few chances and are possibly the most boring Hibs side in my 50 years of watching. What makes that worse is, like Maloney's team, the style is planned and it will never work with these players and probably not in Scottish football where half the teams play anti football. Those teams will enjoy the time we afford them to get their defence in position while Hanlon and Fish pass it sideways. Those teams are the ones we need to beat to finish 3rd and probably the reason Jack Ross managed that when we essentially got most of our success playing to our strengths and on the break.

Way to early to want Monty sacked but if he is going to persist on this style he needs a new squad with players happy to take the ball under pressure and get it moving quickly. My gut says he will be hounded out long before he has a chance to build that squad and I doubt we could afford to do so anyway. He seems a decent guy, with a strong will but he will have to change his ways to stay employed for any length of time as if the results don't get him the boring football will

[easty]

I still think the players, or the majority of them are bang average and it's been seen for a long while now, they should be able to play in any system if they are good enough.

Players have their strengths and weaknesses. Even within single positions the qualities of players who play them are completely different.

Expecting a player to be able to do whatever you ask them to in your system is a nonsense, in my opinion. We’re not talking about world class players here. This is Hibs level. SPL level.

I expect the manager to be able to see what the individual players are good at and work with it. Vente shouldn’t be deep. Youan shouldn’t be deep. We’re not good enough on the ball to piss about with it at the back. He needs to accept these things or nowt will change.

He’s not going to be allowed to change 8 or 9 players to get this working.

[Northernhibee]

This is the squad he has (paper thin or not). These are the players he has. If the players, who are available, can’t play the way you want them to play, you have to get the best you can get out of them. Shoehorning players into roles they don’t fit isn’t the sign of a good manager.

Problem is, I can’t see a formation where it works. 4-3-3, 3-5-2 or whatever we still have a sixteen year old at right back with only Elie Youan in front of him who turns up when he wants and doesn’t offer protection to him. At left back we’ve got an ageing Lewis or Obita who I can’t make my mind up on. We’ve still got two or three of three of Hanlon (getting on but still our best centre half), Rocky (who can’t concentrate for a full ninety minutes) or Fish (a loanee who may be recalled in the coming weeks). Only Hanlon I trust to make a reasonable pass consistently which is what we need.

Midfield still remains Newell and one or two others (the limited one in Jeggo or the not particularly mobile one in Levitt), Jair on the left (one of of few consistently decent players) and up front the one that doesn’t score much, doesn’t score much, or the other one that doesn’t score much.

Coming back we’ve got Rocky, the inconsistent Miller whose passing isn’t wonderful, and a 30 year old Martin Boyle who has had two bad knee injuries and has lost half a yard of pace and with that some of his threat. Cadden has been out for months and will take a while to get back up to speed, same with McKirdy who we don’t know what his top speed is, and JDH might make a cameo some time in 2028/29.

The squad is mince, and the quality we do have doesn’t go together. It’s a complete mish mash of players.

[easty]

Problem is, I can’t see a formation where it works. 4-3-3, 3-5-2 or whatever we still have a sixteen year old at right back with only Elie Youan in front of him who turns up when he wants and doesn’t offer protection to him. At left back we’ve got an ageing Lewis or Obita who I can’t make my mind up on. We’ve still got two or three of three of Hanlon (getting on but still our best centre half), Rocky (who can’t concentrate for a full ninety minutes) or Fish (a loanee who may be recalled in the coming weeks). Only Hanlon I trust to make a reasonable pass consistently which is what we need.

Midfield still remains Newell and one or two others (the limited one in Jeggo or the not particularly mobile one in Levitt), Jair on the left (one of of few consistently decent players) and up front the one that doesn’t score much, doesn’t score much, or the other one that doesn’t score much.

Coming back we’ve got Rocky, the inconsistent Miller whose passing isn’t wonderful, and a 30 year old Martin Boyle who has had two bad knee injuries and has lost half a yard of pace and with that some of his threat. Cadden has been out for months and will take a while to get back up to speed, same with McKirdy who we don’t know what his top speed is, and JDH might make a cameo some time in 2028/29.

The squad is mince, and the quality we do have doesn’t go together. It’s a complete mish mash of players.

The squads not mince at this level. You look at the Killie squad, the St Mirren squad, even say the Hearts squad…are you seeing quality? Much better than ours? I’m no seeing it.

How many of those teams players get in our starting 11 ahead of what we have? No many, cos they aren’t “great squads”, they’re just doing better with what they have.

Put Monty and this style of play with any of those squads and you’d probably get very similar results to what we have.

[B.H.F.C]

Problem is, I can’t see a formation where it works. 4-3-3, 3-5-2 or whatever we still have a sixteen year old at right back with only Elie Youan in front of him who turns up when he wants and doesn’t offer protection to him. At left back we’ve got an ageing Lewis or Obita who I can’t make my mind up on. We’ve still got two or three of three of Hanlon (getting on but still our best centre half), Rocky (who can’t concentrate for a full ninety minutes) or Fish (a loanee who may be recalled in the coming weeks). Only Hanlon I trust to make a reasonable pass consistently which is what we need.

Midfield still remains Newell and one or two others (the limited one in Jeggo or the not particularly mobile one in Levitt), Jair on the left (one of of few consistently decent players) and up front the one that doesn’t score much, doesn’t score much, or the other one that doesn’t score much.

Coming back we’ve got Rocky, the inconsistent Miller whose passing isn’t wonderful, and a 30 year old Martin Boyle who has had two bad knee injuries and has lost half a yard of pace and with that some of his threat. Cadden has been out for months and will take a while to get back up to speed, same with McKirdy who we don’t know what his top speed is, and JDH might make a cameo some time in 2028/29.

The squad is mince, and the quality we do have doesn’t go together. It’s a complete mish mash of players.

Good summary. Change in formation wouldn’t make any significant difference. We played a variety of different formations over the course of last season and the start of this. We were better for a few months in the second half of last season when we had a very good striker and made two signings in January who made an impact. Players have been and remain the biggest issue for me. The only difference in the case of Montgomery is that he’s been working with what he inherited rather than his own so far.

[Northernhibee]

The squads not mince at this level. You look at the Killie squad, the St Mirren squad, even say the Hearts squad…are you seeing quality? Much better than ours? I’m no seeing it.

How many of those teams players get in our starting 11 ahead of what we have? No many, cos they aren’t “great squads”, they’re just doing better with what they have.

Put Monty and this style of play with any of those squads and you’d probably get very similar results to what we have.

With their squads I see a coherent team with a reason for each player to be there. We have not so much of a squad but a lengthy payroll.

[J-C]

Vente does move around or drop back but the rest of the team is like bar football. We are so easy to play against. We had a little success with Whittaker and Youan playing 1-2s and Jair taking his man on but we do it so infrequently it means we create very few chances and are possibly the most boring Hibs side in my 50 years of watching. What makes that worse is, like Maloney's team, the style is planned and it will never work with these players and probably not in Scottish football where half the teams play anti football. Those teams will enjoy the time we afford them to get their defence in position while Hanlon and Fish pass it sideways. Those teams are the ones we need to beat to finish 3rd and probably the reason Jack Ross managed that when we essentially got most of our success playing to our strengths and on the break.

Way to early to want Monty sacked but if he is going to persist on this style he needs a new squad with players happy to take the ball under pressure and get it moving quickly. My gut says he will be hounded out long before he has a chance to build that squad and I doubt we could afford to do so anyway. He seems a decent guy, with a strong will but he will have to change his ways to stay employed for any length of time as if the results don't get him the boring football will

Although he had a very decent career down south, getting his system to work in Australia will be easier than here purely on the quality of the opposition, hopefully he realises this soon or indeed the Foley money comes through soon and 3-4 players are signed.

[richard_pitts]

I can’t help feeling that we’re in the same 2010-2014 tailspin that we had under Petrie. Things just feeling off at the club, a sense of disengagement, a poor squad, poor recruitment, poor football, and a never ending rotation of managers coming in and not being able to implement the style of football that they want to.

I thought the same back then as I do now - there is lots not working at the club and we were more obsessed with our balance sheets and KPIs than the actual football. Under Petrie it was the outgoings we obsessed over and under IG/BK it appears to be the money coming in but the result is the same - a poor footballing product.

Dempster and Mathie seemed to bring renewed focus back onto the product on the pitch and we reaped dividends from it.

Before we think about new managers we need to get a proper focus back onto the product on the pitch, recruitment strategy and so forth. I don’t think McDermott alone is enough for that so we need to freshen things up behind the scenes. The state of the squad as of late is a bad joke. With an international call up, we’ve got a sixteen year old at right back.

Otherwise we’ll keep setting back managers in their careers and we’ll be a less appealing option to join and the spiral continues. We’re not too big to be relegated nor can we guarantee buying ourselves out of that position in the seasons ahead.

The setup just now is stale and not working but it’s not beyond rescue just yet.

I agree. We are reaping the "reward" on the pitch for poor decisions off it, in particular a lack of coherent strategy and player development: the result is we have Stevenson and Hanlon and a loanee in our back 4 and are talking about getting another loanee central defender in to replace Hanlon. Meanwhile Alex Gogic is playing centre half for a team sitting above us in the SPL.

[The Modfather]

Players have their strengths and weaknesses. Even within single positions the qualities of players who play them are completely different.

Expecting a player to be able to do whatever you ask them to in your system is a nonsense, in my opinion. We’re not talking about world class players here. This is Hibs level. SPL level.

I expect the manager to be able to see what the individual players are good at and work with it. Vente shouldn’t be deep. Youan shouldn’t be deep. We’re not good enough on the ball to piss about with it at the back. He needs to accept these things or nowt will change.

He’s not going to be allowed to change 8 or 9 players to get this working.

Until we change 8 or 9 players a managers shelf life with this squad is a year at best. That’s the fundamental issue spanning Ross, Maloney, Johnson and now Montgomery. We had Heckingbottoms spine playing yesterday (Hanlon, Newell & Doidge. With Stevenson also playing).

Talk about playing to player’s strengths, best formations etc ultimately amounts to playing a front 3 of Youan, Vente & Boyle. That’s fair enough, but outside of that there’s nothing. A non existent midfield whatever 3 you pick that won’t create anything. A defence that leaks cheap goals. Look at our last two league games. Rocky & Fish not stopping Shankland with a hoof up the park. Or losing 3 headers in a row against Motherwell.

St Mirren on the opening day had us worked out. Stop Youan & Boyle and Hibs struggle to create anything and wait for the opportunities the defence will give you. Montgomery, Johnson, Maloney, 442, 433, 4231, it’s all re-arranging deck chairs on the titanic with such a poor squad IMO.

[easty]

With their squads I see a coherent team with a reason for each player to be there. We have not so much of a squad but a lengthy payroll.

Those coherent squads at St Mirren and Killie finished below us last season. Hearts finished just above us. It’s more or less the same squads and managers.

[easty]

Until we change 8 or 9 players a managers shelf life with this squad is a year at best. That’s the fundamental issue spanning Ross, Maloney, Johnson and now Montgomery. We had Heckingbottoms spine playing yesterday (Hanlon, Newell & Doidge. With Stevenson also playing).

Talk about playing to player’s strengths, best formations etc ultimately amounts to playing a front 3 of Youan, Vente & Boyle. That’s fair enough, but outside of that there’s nothing. A non existent midfield whatever 3 you pick that won’t create anything. A defence that leaks cheap goals. Look at our last two league games. Rocky & Fish not stopping Shankland with a hoof up the park. Or losing 3 headers in a row against Motherwell.

St Mirren on the opening day had us worked out. Stop Youan & Boyle and Hibs can’t create anything and wait for the opportunities the defence will give you. Montgomery, Johnson, Maloney, 442, 433, 4231, it’s all re-arranging deck chairs on the titanic with such a poor squad IMO.

I dunno why we just constantly disregard that we qualified for Europe last season.

This squad isn’t nearly as ***** as folk keep saying. They’re the same squad that are good enough to qualify for Europe.

We look pish in a pish system just now.

[The Modfather]

Those coherent squads at St Mirren and Killie finished below us last season. Hearts finished just above us. It’s more or less the same squads and managers.

St Mirren & Killie combined over a number of windows won’t have spent anywhere near what we spent on fees alone in the summer. Hearts might have just finished above us last season but they also finished above us the season before having been in the championship the previous season.

[SickBoy32]

I dunno why we just constantly disregard that we qualified for Europe last season.

This squad isn’t nearly as ***** as folk keep saying. They’re the same squad that are good enough to qualify for Europe.

We look pish in a pish system just now.

Nearly half the league qualified for europe - let’s no overplay it 😂

Squad is without a shadow of a doubt a total mess, full of low quality players on too much cash to be able to shift them out the door quickly

BK has overseen an absolute calamity the last few years - but I can see no way that we can possibly be skint given the sales of Nisbet and the alleged fee for Melkersen

[easty]

St Mirren & Killie combined over a number of windows won’t have spent anywhere near what we spent on fees alone in the summer. Hearts might have just finished above us last season but they also finished above us the season before having been in the championship the previous season.

Ok, I’m not sure what that has to do with what I was saying though?

I’m saying they don’t have better squads than us. In St Mirren and Killies case, we definitely have a better squad of players. What it cost is irrelevant to me.

With Hearts, I don’t think there’s much between the squads. Shankland.

All those teams are getting more out of their players than we do of ours.

[Northernhibee]

I agree. We are reaping the "reward" on the pitch for poor decisions off it, in particular a lack of coherent strategy and player development: the result is we have Stevenson and Hanlon and a loanee in our back 4 and are talking about getting another loanee central defender in to replace Hanlon. Meanwhile Alex Gogic is playing centre half for a team sitting above us in the SPL.
With respect to the Gordons as individuals and as a family, the club has gone downhill since STF sold up and even as early as we had Petrie looking after the financial side of things and Dempster and Mathie looking after the football side.

We hit the nail on the head when we signed David Gray and set him as the blueprint of what a right back at Hibs should look like. We should have that for every position as then we have a clearly defined vision of what the squad looks like and we can develop a “style of play”. Saying “we want to play attacking football” means nothing if you don’t have those players and every resource available pointing in that direction.

It was during that spell we won the Scottish Cup and promotion back to the top flight and had some of our most enjoyable football in a long time because the club had a proper strategy..

The biggest mistake we made was allowing Lennon a bit too much freedom in signings IMO, the likes of Slivka, Mallan, Horgan and so forth didn’t quite fit in with what we needed and as such we lost our way with that a bit so when we hired Heckingbottom who should have been a good manager for us, we had a bit too much to do to get the ship back on track.


We did that with Jack Ross - signing tried and tested players in this top flight that allowed him to play his counter attacking football and we finished third.


We then seemed to veer off course off the pitch and failed to back him and in the end, he left because he didn’t have a squad good enough.

We then for some ****ing bizarre reason hired Maloney and went giddy with an idea of a development team which we signed a lot of players who would never be good enough, and went into the second half of the season with barely an attacking line up up front, with James Scott being the only striker who could score goals and even then, it was about in the last week of the season that he did. Another sacking, and we signed LJ.

Hands up anyone who has any ****ing clue what LJ’s style of play was and how it fits in with our squad. We also signed yet more dross and again, hands up who knows what blueprint they fitted or how they fit in with a defined style of play. Kenneh? Youan? Jair certainly didn’t, he ended up playing against Dunbar United rather than being on pre season this time around if ai recall correctly. That should be setting off major alarm bells now we can see how good he is.

As for this window - we have a manager with a blueprint of how we play but next to no players who can play it. Whatever we do - stick or twist - it will be painful as we need a blueprint of how we play as a team, what a squad for that blueprint looks like, how we recruit for that, and how we develop our young players so the likes of Ethan Laidlaw would have had a clear route of how to make it into the first team.


As it is, the blueprint that Monty has is the only thing we have that gives us a vision for the future so Id set all resources at the club into developing a squad that fits this and see where we are in eighteen months as if we keep chopping and changing its leading to relegation again.

[The Modfather]

I dunno why we just constantly disregard that we qualified for Europe last season.

This squad isn’t nearly as ***** as folk keep saying. They’re the same squad that are good enough to qualify for Europe.

We look pish in a pish system just now.

Ooutwith the 6 or 7 players most agree on as being starters (Marshall, Obita, Newell, Jair, Youan, Boyle, Vente). What do you think of the other 19 players on the payroll and their contributions?

Wollacot
Rocky
Miller
ALF
McKirdy
Campbell
Harbottle
Levit
Hanlon
Stevenson
Jeggo
Doidge
JDH
Delfierre
Cadden
Mckay
Tait
Henderson
Kenneh

[easty]

Nearly half the league qualified for europe - let’s no overplay it 😂

Squad is without a shadow of a doubt a total mess, full of low quality players on too much cash to be able to shift them out the door quickly

BK has overseen an absolute calamity the last few years - but I can see no way that we can possibly be skint given the sales of Nisbet and the alleged fee for Melkersen

5 teams qualify for Europe. If we’re now going with that not even being an achievement, then I dunno what to say to counter that.

[JohnM1875]

5 teams qualify for Europe. If we’re now going with that not even being an achievement, then I dunno what to say to counter that.

We qualified for Europe cause Celtic won the Scottish cup. By league position only the top four definitely qualify for Europe. Finishing fifth you need the cup winners to do you a favour. Luckily in Scotland it’ll 9 times out of 10 be one of the old firm.

[SickBoy32]

5 teams qualify for Europe. If we’re now going with that not even being an achievement, then I dunno what to say to counter that.

Finishing 5th in the league with a dismal showing in both cup competitions is the absolute minimum expectation for Hibs imo , so nah I don’t count anything in season 22/23 as an achievement to be honest

The squad is full of ***** players, it’s time for us to be clearing out most to allow ourselves to improve going forward. Binning another manager and watching a pony like newell etc continue to take us nowhere just canny happen

[easty]

Ooutwith the 6 or 7 players most agree on as being starters (Marshall, Obita, Newell, Jair, Youan, Boyle, Vente). What do you think of the other 19 players on the payroll and their contributions?

Wollacot
Rocky
Miller
ALF
McKirdy
Campbell
Harbottle
Levit
Hanlon
Stevenson
Jeggo
Doidge
JDH
Delfierre
Cadden
Mckay
Tait
Henderson
Kenneh

I’ve nae interest in going through player for player, and I’m more than happy to agree that a lot of them are crap. I’m sure if I pulled a list of St Mirren squad players, Killie squad players, Hearts/Aberdeen/Motherwell squad players I’d be able to point to a load of ***** tae.

SPL teams, outwith Rangers and Celtc, don’t have squads that are full of quality. That’s not a new thing. Chris Dagnall and Mark Oxley have Scottish cup winners medals from Hibs.

[Northernhibee]

Ooutwith the 6 or 7 players most agree on as being starters (Marshall, Obita, Newell, Jair, Youan, Boyle, Vente). What do you think of the other 19 players on the payroll and their contributions?

Wollacot
Rocky
Miller
ALF
McKirdy
Campbell
Harbottle
Levit
Hanlon
Stevenson
Jeggo
Doidge
JDH
Delfierre
Cadden
Mckay
Tait
Henderson
Kenneh

That’s a very depressing list.

Out of your seven guaranteed starters list, I’d only agree with four or five of them.

[BoomtownHibees]

Agreed Marshall has contributed to the slow play too. It was noticeable how much quicker and penetrating Wallocotts distribution was against Ross County before he let himself down in the last 20 minutes of that match.

I felt Marshall was the only one yesterday who was trying to do things quick, getting the ball back at set pieces etc. The rest of the team just laboured about, including Newell at the penalty. He hit that like he plays the game

[easty]

Finishing 5th in the league with a dismal showing in both cup competitions is the absolute minimum expectation for Hibs imo , so nah I don’t count anything in season 22/23 as an achievement to be honest

Cool

[Hibees1973]

As always when performances are poor the focus is on the manager.

Montgomery clearly hasn't been getting the best out of the squad for around 3 months now, but it could be argued he can only the use the tools he has and clearly some are not good enough.

Our problems are much bigger than the manager.

It's all down to people. A progressive and attractive football team has the right people in and around it and working together.

Sadly, we don't just now.

[Northernhibee]

I felt Marshall was the only one yesterday who was trying to do things quick, getting the ball back at set pieces etc. The rest of the team just laboured about, including Newell at the penalty. He hit that like he plays the game

Marshall, Hanlon, and Levitt are ball players, arguably Newell. What struck me was when they had the ball how few players showed for it and gave them an option.


St Mirren and Killie have less expensive players but they have players pulling in the same direction and that will always be more effective. We need a clear out of players that may not be popular with some, but if you can’t play in the system that we want to play then you don’t have a place here. Even if you’re a Vente, Boyle, Youan, Rocky, Stevenson or whatever if you can’t do what we want to do then you don’t have a place here.

[The Modfather]

I’ve nae interest in going through player for player, and I’m more than happy to agree that a lot of them are crap. I’m sure if I pulled a list of St Mirren squad players, Killie squad players, Hearts/Aberdeen/Motherwell squad players I’d be able to point to a load of ***** tae.

SPL teams, outwith Rangers and Celtc, don’t have squads that are full of quality. That’s not a new thing. Chris Dagnall and Mark Oxley have Scottish cup winners medals from Hibs.

We must be amongst the worst in the league in terms of our squad being both bloated AND imbalanced. Again, yesterday the spine of the team was from Heckingbottom!

There’s no quality in the league, but we seem poorer at spending the money we do have other than maybe Aberdeen, although they have group stage football to show for it.

5th is about the ceiling for this squad and it’s as capable of 5th as it is of bottom 6 IMO.

[CapitalGreen]

With respect to the Gordons as individuals and as a family, the club has gone downhill since STF sold up and even as early as we had Petrie looking after the financial side of things and Dempster and Mathie looking after the football side.

We hit the nail on the head when we signed David Gray and set him as the blueprint of what a right back at Hibs should look like. We should have that for every position as then we have a clearly defined vision of what the squad looks like and we can develop a “style of play”. Saying “we want to play attacking football” means nothing if you don’t have those players and every resource available pointing in that direction.

It was during that spell we won the Scottish Cup and promotion back to the top flight and had some of our most enjoyable football in a long time because the club had a proper strategy..

The biggest mistake we made was allowing Lennon a bit too much freedom in signings IMO, the likes of Slivka, Mallan, Horgan and so forth didn’t quite fit in with what we needed and as such we lost our way with that a bit so when we hired Heckingbottom who should have been a good manager for us, we had a bit too much to do to get the ship back on track.


We did that with Jack Ross - signing tried and tested players in this top flight that allowed him to play his counter attacking football and we finished third.


We then seemed to veer off course off the pitch and failed to back him and in the end, he left because he didn’t have a squad good enough.

We then for some ****ing bizarre reason hired Maloney and went giddy with an idea of a development team which we signed a lot of players who would never be good enough, and went into the second half of the season with barely an attacking line up up front, with James Scott being the only striker who could score goals and even then, it was about in the last week of the season that he did. Another sacking, and we signed LJ.

Hands up anyone who has any ****ing clue what LJ’s style of play was and how it fits in with our squad. We also signed yet more dross and again, hands up who knows what blueprint they fitted or how they fit in with a defined style of play. Kenneh? Youan? Jair certainly didn’t, he ended up playing against Dunbar United rather than being on pre season this time around if ai recall correctly. That should be setting off major alarm bells now we can see how good he is.

As for this window - we have a manager with a blueprint of how we play but next to no players who can play it. Whatever we do - stick or twist - it will be painful as we need a blueprint of how we play as a team, what a squad for that blueprint looks like, how we recruit for that, and how we develop our young players so the likes of Ethan Laidlaw would have had a clear route of how to make it into the first team.


As it is, the blueprint that Monty has is the only thing we have that gives us a vision for the future so Id set all resources at the club into developing a squad that fits this and see where we are in eighteen months as if we keep chopping and changing its leading to relegation again.

There’s a lot of nonsense in this post including some misty-eyed pish about how good it was spending 3 embarrassing years in the Championship which involved our lowest league placing in the last 60 years.

but off the bat, Slivka, Mallan and Horgan were not Lennon signings, why do you think Mathie wasn’t involved? He’s quoted in interviews as saying he used TransferRoom to scout the likes of Slivka rather than actually watching him in person.

As for hiring Heckingbottom, we only ended up with him as a result of failing in our negations to get our first choice Michael Appleton.

Then there’s more revisionism describing Jack Ross football as attacking. While the main thing is finishing 3rd, we weren’t a great attacking forces in doing so, only scoring 48 goals in 38 games - one of the lowest totals for a 3rd place team since the switch to a 12 team league.

[superfurryhibby]

Ooutwith the 6 or 7 players most agree on as being starters (Marshall, Obita, Newell, Jair, Youan, Boyle, Vente). What do you think of the other 19 players on the payroll and their contributions?

Wollacot
Rocky
Miller
ALF
McKirdy
Campbell
Harbottle
Levit
Hanlon
Stevenson
Jeggo
Doidge
JDH
Delfierre
Cadden
Mckay
Tait
Henderson
Kenneh

Add Jair to that list, I like his attitude and effort, but in terms of his footballing ability, squad player for me. Newell is another, lauded as our best player by some, not for me. Far too often takes the safe option and passes the ball sideways. My son feels he is able to dictate the tempo of games, I don't see that very often. Yesterday, the forward momentum noticeably increased when Leviitt came on. He at least tried to play decisive through balls.

Yesterday, everything was being directed down our left (1st half in particular) , Stevenson and Tavares, often with Stevenson in a more advanced position. The beggars belief really. It was dire to watch, no one breaking to create an option for them, so easy to defend.

That list makes for painful reading ( I would take Miller off, he's shown the sublime to the ridic, but I think he can improve). It shows what a farce recruitment has been. To think that we have taken well over 6 million pounds in transfer fees over the past two seasons and that's what we have, Jesus ****ing wept.

Tactics are a moot point, but we have a mediocre pool of players.

[Northernhibee]

There’s a lot of nonsense in this post including some misty-eyed pish about how good it was spending 3 embarrassing years in the Championship which involved our lowest league placing in the last 60 years.

but off the bat, Slivka, Mallan and Horgan were not Lennon signings, why do you think Mathie wasn’t involved? He’s quoted in interviews as saying he used TransferRoom to scout the likes of Slivka rather than actually watching him in person.

As for hiring Heckingbottom, we only ended up with him as a result of failing in our negations to get our first choice Michael Appleton.

Then there’s more revisionism describing Jack Ross football as attacking. While the main thing is finishing 3rd, we weren’t a great attacking forces in doing so, only scoring 48 goals in 38 games - one of the lowest totals for a 3rd place team since the switch to a 12 team league.

I described Jack Ross as counter attacking, which is completely true. Might ve worth reading it properly before parping on.

We can all see it (well, some of us can). When we do well we have a strategy we stick to as a club and when we let that slip we do badly.

The recruitment in the Championship set us up for a while with McGinn, Allan, Henderson, Fyvie, and McGeouch in midfield. We had Cummings, Keatings, Stokes up front who could all score. An excellent back line. A historic Scottish Cup win. We sold players for good fees. It was sustainable. One bad league campaign but benefits we seen for a while going forward.

I genuinely can’t believe a Hibby looks back at that and things it’s not a positive spell overall.

[xbar81]

so is 442 no longer in fashion? What's wrong with it.

Sometimes it might be better than the other more complex systems.

[CapitalGreen]

I described Jack Ross as counter attacking, which is completely true. Might ve worth reading it properly before parping on.

We can all see it (well, some of us can). When we do well we have a strategy we stick to as a club and when we let that slip we do badly.

The recruitment in the Championship set us up for a while with McGinn, Allan, Henderson, Fyvie, and McGeouch in midfield. We had Cummings, Keatings, Stokes up front who could all score. An excellent back line. A historic Scottish Cup win. We sold players for good fees. It was sustainable. One bad league campaign but benefits we seen for a while going forward.

I genuinely can’t believe a Hibby looks back at that and things it’s not a positive spell overall.

Because much of it is revisionist nonsense. We massively underperformed in the championship for the squad we had, I’m not sure how anyone can say otherwise. Were you celebrating what a good strategy we had implemented when we went on a run of 1 point from 15 against Morton, Dumbarton, QOTS, Raith and St Mirren? Imagine we went on a run like that now against those sorts of teams.

[Northernhibee]

Because much of it is revisionist nonsense. We massively underperformed in the championship for the squad we had, I’m not sure how anyone can say otherwise. Were you celebrating what a good strategy we had implemented when we went on a run of 1 point from 15 against Morton, Dumbarton, QOTS, Raith and St Mirren? Imagine we went on a run like that now against those sorts of teams.

A combination of injuries and competing in three competitions didn’t help us at all, the players we had were absolutely knackered.

The fact you’re trying to make the debate about this rather than the overall point of the club lacking a coherent footballing strategy suggests that you know I’m right.

[J-C]

Until we change 8 or 9 players a managers shelf life with this squad is a year at best. That’s the fundamental issue spanning Ross, Maloney, Johnson and now Montgomery. We had Heckingbottoms spine playing yesterday (Hanlon, Newell & Doidge. With Stevenson also playing).

Talk about playing to player’s strengths, best formations etc ultimately amounts to playing a front 3 of Youan, Vente & Boyle. That’s fair enough, but outside of that there’s nothing. A non existent midfield whatever 3 you pick that won’t create anything. A defence that leaks cheap goals. Look at our last two league games. Rocky & Fish not stopping Shankland with a hoof up the park. Or losing 3 headers in a row against Motherwell.

St Mirren on the opening day had us worked out. Stop Youan & Boyle and Hibs struggle to create anything and wait for the opportunities the defence will give you. Montgomery, Johnson, Maloney, 442, 433, 4231, it’s all re-arranging deck chairs on the titanic with such a poor squad IMO.

I'd question these 2 as Hecky's spine, they are 2 cup winning players, maybe not good enough now but certainly when Heckingbottom was here in 2019, they were easily good enough.

[Skol]

so is 442 no longer in fashion? What's wrong with it.

Sometimes it might be better than the other more complex systems.

It’s just a good reason to call our manager a dinosaur. The real issues are in the personnel and I doubt if guardiola or mcinnes would get any better a tune out of the players we have. Some good individuals, but that’s what they are. Some solid players also. However we need more.

We need to stop this hounding of Montgomery, he needs time and he needs to get some players in. A january window is not usually a good one to judge on as players of the required type are not usually available.

[wookie70]

As it is, the blueprint that Monty has is the only thing we have that gives us a vision for the future so Id set all resources at the club into developing a squad that fits this and see where we are in eighteen months as if we keep chopping and changing its leading to relegation again.

That only works if that blueprint/vision could be successful in the future. For me the style of play he is seeking to achieve simply won't work with our resources and in this league. It may just about work if you had the advantages of the Uglies but for a mid pack club it has no chance as the Uglies will outplay us and the teams below will play ugly football that will mostly stop us creating. A squad of players who would make it work is out with our budget or it would take a good few years and massive amounts of luck and good judgement to get youth through. I've no doubt we can and may well improve but I have zero faith in what the plan is and I just see this as a more experienced Maloney management appointment. I obviously hope I am wrong on all counts but Maloney was destined to failure before the first game he managed. I think Monty is essentially the same unless he can be pragmatic and adopt a style that we can be successful with and build towards his vision. At the moment he has placed all bets on red and it won't land there enough to keep him employed

[J-C]

Ooutwith the 6 or 7 players most agree on as being starters (Marshall, Obita, Newell, Jair, Youan, Boyle, Vente). What do you think of the other 19 players on the payroll and their contributions?

Wollacot Not seen enough TBH
Rocky Not good enough if we want to improve
Miller See Rocky
ALF Twilight of his career, unfortunate with an injury.
McKirdy LJ probably didn't help him and is getting back from serious health issues.
Campbell Half decent who pops up with a few goals, decent squad player who can still improve.
Harbottle Haven't seen enough of him but had a good season last year on loan.
Levitt Not lived up to the hype, maybe another of these players who come from a top team and isn't as good as people think.
Hanlon Still decent for the SPFL, a younger version is needed.
Stevenson Great servant who will probably go into coaching, was a major contributor to Doig's improvement here.
Jeggo Limited player, good DM but passing etc, questionable, we need better.
Doidge Although scored yesterday his day has gone and we need better.
JDH Permanently injured and offering nothing, needs a new start elsewhere.
Delfierre Came with good rep from a decent club, no clue what's happened, he looks calm and assured at times and then panicky, is it a mental thing?
Cadden Very unfortunate injury and a player we've missed, good crosser but needs to sharpen up his defensive side.
Mckay Always seems to do quite well on loan, is the lower half/championship his level, again not really seen enough.
Tait Seems to have discipline/professionalism problems, move on.
Henderson Doing well on loan but at a much lower level, move on.
Kenneh Had a good season at Shrewsbury but in League 1, is he worth looking at again?

.

[xbar81]

maybe we should play 4-6-0 as I'm sure that worked well when someone we know did that :na na:

[brydekirk]

Although we play 4-4-2, its not the same way of playing 4-4-2 that Alex Miller used

We play 244 going forward, that's how it's easy for teams to catch us on the break.
Our wingers don't track back and are defensively inept.
Jiar, Youan and Boyle are all guilty of being greedy when they have the ball. Taking shots from tight angles when a pass into the box would be more productive.
Even when Vente is playing as a striker, his team mates can't read his runs in on goal.
Rant over. Cheers

[Winston Ingram]

Nearly half the league qualified for europe - let’s no overplay it 😂

Squad is without a shadow of a doubt a total mess, full of low quality players on too much cash to be able to shift them out the door quickly

BK has overseen an absolute calamity the last few years - but I can see no way that we can possibly be skint given the sales of Nisbet and the alleged fee for Melkersen

We spent £1.5m in the summer on Youan, Vente and Levitt.
Dunfermline and Bodo had significant sell ons. We also won’t have received the full fees up front.

[SickBoy32]

We spent £1.5m in the summer on Youan, Vente and Levitt.
Dunfermline and Bodo had significant sell ons. We also won’t have received the full fees up front.

Is it not fair to assume that if we receive transfer fees in instalments, we will also be paying transfer fees in instalments too?

Given the sales we’ve had in the past few years (and Doig sell on%) I just can’t see any way that the budget can be gone? Shambolic if it is, and just makes things like the Dubai trip even more galling.

[Lago]

It’s just a good reason to call our manager a dinosaur. The real issues are in the personnel and I doubt if guardiola or mcinnes would get any better a tune out of the players we have. Some good individuals, but that’s what they are. Some solid players also. However we need more.

We need to stop this hounding of Montgomery, he needs time and he needs to get some players in. A january window is not usually a good one to judge on as players of the required type are not usually available.
What a sensible post👍

[greenlex]

Is it not fair to assume that if we receive transfer fees in instalments, we will also be paying transfer fees in instalments too?

Given the sales we’ve had in the past few years (and Doig sell on%) I just can’t see any way that the budget can be gone? Shambolic if it is, and just makes things like the Dubai trip even more galling.
The Doig transfer only happened yesterday. Any money from it, if that’s where it’s going, wouldn’t be in the budget before then.

[Scotty Leither]

All the blame can’t be laid at Montgomery, but this keep ball system he’s playing only works when you’ve got players in midfield who can exploit space and move the ball quickly in the last third.

Unfortunately for him he doesn’t have a Baresi or Beckenbauer at the back, nor does he have a Pirlo nor a Gasgoigne for them to give the ball to.

He’s not being helped by the Board who seem to be following the previous regime’s lead of signing a clutch of players who make zero impact on the first team whatsoever.

The cost of recruiting these players and the implications of how that restricts the budget of whatever incumbent is sat in the dugout is something Kensell and co should be taken to task on, but instead we’ve just got to suck it up watching limited players come and go at Easter Road.

Can we not just spend a few quid on the transfer fees we receive on a couple of seasoned players, or is that too much to ask?

[Hibby Bairn]

It’s just a good reason to call our manager a dinosaur. The real issues are in the personnel and I doubt if guardiola or mcinnes would get any better a tune out of the players we have. Some good individuals, but that’s what they are. Some solid players also. However we need more.

We need to stop this hounding of Montgomery, he needs time and he needs to get some players in. A january window is not usually a good one to judge on as players of the required type are not usually available.

Completely agree. The guy's only been here 4 months. Steadied the club after a very poor start to the season.

Folk seem to always want things immediately these days. Sport, food, deliveries etc. I believe some "supporters" were even getting on young Whittaker's back yesterday. Incredible.

Let's just support Montgomery, the team and the club and see where it takes us. And if you're no happy then at least just keep quiet. Shouting negatively at matches or games does no-one any good.

[DunblaneHibby]

Completely agree. The guy's only been here 4 months. Steadied the club after a very poor start to the season.

Folk seem to always want things immediately these days. Sport, food, deliveries etc. I believe some "supporters" were even getting on young Whittaker's back yesterday. Incredible.

Let's just support Montgomery, the team and the club and see where it takes us. And if you're no happy then at least just keep quiet. Shouting negatively at matches or games does no-one any good.

Well said

[Since452]

Completely agree. The guy's only been here 4 months. Steadied the club after a very poor start to the season.

Folk seem to always want things immediately these days. Sport, food, deliveries etc. I believe some "supporters" were even getting on young Whittaker's back yesterday. Incredible.

Let's just support Montgomery, the team and the club and see where it takes us. And if you're no happy then at least just keep quiet. Shouting negatively at matches or games does no-one any good.

I don't for a second think that Lee Johnson was the right guy. I think he was correctly moved on but I wonder where we would be now if he had stayed. I'd wager the football would be far more entertaining she he'd be getting more out of the players.

[Skol]

I don't for a second think that Lee Johnson was the right guy. I think he was correctly moved on but I wonder where we would be now if he had stayed. I'd wager the football would be far more entertaining she he'd be getting more out of the players.

Yeah, but he isnt here and largely because of the reaction of a section of our impatient support. History now repeating itself.

[jeffers]

Yeah, but he isnt here and largely because of the reaction of a section of our impatient support. History now repeating itself.

Are you suggesting we should have stuck with Johnson ?

[blackpoolhibs]

Should have stuck with Ross.

[Hibiza]

At Forfar
These tactics from Monty are from the Stone Age
Ditch 442 pls

Brill , Montysauras 🤣🤣🤣

[easty]

Should have stuck with Ross.

Should never have met Mowbray leave.

[blackpoolhibs]

Should never have met Mowbray leave.

Cant stop managers leaving, you can let managers who want to stay, stay, then back him like we backed those who followed him.

[Basildon Hibs]

Finishing 5th in the league with a dismal showing in both cup competitions is the absolute minimum expectation for Hibs imo , so nah I don’t count anything in season 22/23 as an achievement to be honest

The squad is full of ***** players, it’s time for us to be clearing out most to allow ourselves to improve going forward. Binning another manager and watching a pony like newell etc continue to take us nowhere just canny happen

👍👊

[jakeshibs]

Yeah, but he isnt here and largely because of the reaction of a section of our impatient support. History now repeating itself.

Well said, a large section of our support take no responsibility for the constant change of managers or the financial implications that these decisions impact our club,

[The Modfather]

Should have stuck with Ross.

We should be planning the celebration as John Collins approaches 20 years in charge.