442 Montysaurus?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Well said, a large section of our support take no responsibility for the constant change of managers or the financial implications that these decisions impact our club,

I wasn’t aware the support make the decisions on when to sack a manager?

[blackpoolhibs]

We should be planning the celebration as John Collins approaches 20 years in charge.

We never sacked him.

[BoomtownHibees]

Well said, a large section of our support take no responsibility for the constant change of managers or the financial implications that these decisions impact our club,

Strange way of looking at it

[The Modfather]

It’s time to back a manager with what he needs. Montgomery told us how his teams play, and that he likes to bring youngsters through and has been true to that having delivered it successfully elsewhere. No bluster or self preservation.

We need to re-shape the squad and make it more suited to a Montgomery team. We’ve also got a lot of promising youngsters ready to be given their opportunity, of which they will under Montgomery but wouldn’t under another manager like Johnson. Time to stop the cycle of buying poorly and buying lots of individuals with no actual thought as to how they all fit together.

Montgomery needs at least a summer window to put his stamp on things and build a Montgomery team. What’s the worst that could happen, a few more forgettable seasons and leaving a squad the next man struggles to get much out of. Essentially leaving us the same as he inherited. Or maybe he builds foundations and a spine of the team, like Stubbs, the next man can benefit from.

Alongside that, maybe McDermott could give him some guidance and share his experience in pragmatism and short term flexibility to make sure he’s here long enough to successfully implement what he’s trying to do.

[basehibby]

Good summary. Change in formation wouldn’t make any significant difference. We played a variety of different formations over the course of last season and the start of this. We were better for a few months in the second half of last season when we had a very good striker and made two signings in January who made an impact. Players have been and remain the biggest issue for me. The only difference in the case of Montgomery is that he’s been working with what he inherited rather than his own so far.

I think the bit in bold is nonsense. We currently have players that lend themselves well to a 4-3-3 and, when deployed that way last season, they usually created loads of chances and were entertaining to watch.

Most everyone is very fond of giving LJ pelters on here and maybe he was not entirely undeserving of them. One thing he did do that I liked though, was instruct his teams to move the ball forward quickly and play their football in the opposition half. This sometimes meant leaving the back door open but it was entertaining stuff more often than not with lots of chances created.

Monty has a very different style of 4-4-2 and always passing out from the back and when this has not clicked it has resulted in some turgid football. This is entirely down to the manager and his choice of tactics and formation - if it were not then you'd have to ask what the point of a manager is in the first place - getting the kit man to pick a starting eleven and just letting them make it up as they go along would surely be much cheaper!

[Is It On....]

Yeah, but he isnt here and largely because of the reaction of a section of our impatient support. History now repeating itself.

Lee Johnson is NOT a good manager and the mistake was appointing him in the first place. Montgomery has not, as yet, improved (some may say it has regressed again) what he inherited and that for me is the key issue.

[BoomtownHibees]

I think the bit in bold is nonsense. We currently have players that lend themselves well to a 4-3-3 and, when deployed that way last season, they usually created loads of chances and were entertaining to watch.

Most everyone is very fond of giving LJ pelters on here and maybe he was not entirely undeserving of them. One thing he did do that I liked though, was instruct his teams to move the ball forward quickly and play their football in the opposition half. This sometimes meant leaving the back door open but it was entertaining stuff more often than not with lots of chances created.

Monty has a very different style of 4-4-2 and always passing out from the back and when this has not clicked it has resulted in some turgid football. This is entirely down to the manager and his choice of tactics and formation - if it were not then you'd have to ask what the point of a manager is in the first place - getting the kit man to pick a starting eleven and just letting them make it up as they go along would surely be much cheaper!

It’s the style he wants us to play rather than the formation for me. 442 could still be effective if played in the right way, same as any other formation. Play with pace & intensity, play your best players in their best position. Changing to a 433 but still playing the same slow, laboured style as we do just now would change nothing with the same set of players we currently have imo

[jeffers]

Well said, a large section of our support take no responsibility for the constant change of managers or the financial implications that these decisions impact our club,

Asides from the fact that Johnson wasn’t sacked by the fans how would we go about taking responsibility for it ?

[VoltaireHibs]

Should have stuck with Ross.

Nope. It was utter tedium. In saying that, most of Scottish football is utter tedium.

[xbar81]

Nope. It was utter tedium. In saying that, most of Scottish football is utter tedium.


Ross was best manager we've had in recent times. He won't come back, I doubt anyone would come back tbh. Something about the way we treat managers here. I bet they are all glad to leave.

[Bridge hibs]

Ross was best manager we've had in recent times. He won't come back, I doubt anyone would come back tbh. Something about the way we treat managers here. I bet they are all glad to leave.

Yeah Im sure managers love getting the sack, works wonders for their CVs

[VoltaireHibs]

Ross was best manager we've had in recent times. He won't come back, I doubt anyone would come back tbh. Something about the way we treat managers here. I bet they are all glad to leave.

Ross was a good, steady manager. I have nothing against the guy, or any previous Hibs manager with one or two exceptions (I'm looking at you Calderwood and Butcher), but for me he was a bit too much Bobby Williamson Mk2, quite an uninspiring guy, who delivered decent results playing uninspiring football. My favourite managers have had a bit about them, Mowbray, Stubbs, and yes, Lennon. I go to football, health permitting, to be entertained. Results are important, I want to see us top four etc, but in the absence of that I want to feel that buzz and be entertained by a team playing decent football. Weirdly, Lee Johnson, who I was happy to see the back of, possibly had sporadic performances that I really enjoyed. but waaaay too much bizarre dross in between.

[B.H.F.C]

I think the bit in bold is nonsense. We currently have players that lend themselves well to a 4-3-3 and, when deployed that way last season, they usually created loads of chances and were entertaining to watch.

Most everyone is very fond of giving LJ pelters on here and maybe he was not entirely undeserving of them. One thing he did do that I liked though, was instruct his teams to move the ball forward quickly and play their football in the opposition half. This sometimes meant leaving the back door open but it was entertaining stuff more often than not with lots of chances created.

Monty has a very different style of 4-4-2 and always passing out from the back and when this has not clicked it has resulted in some turgid football. This is entirely down to the manager and his choice of tactics and formation - if it were not then you'd have to ask what the point of a manager is in the first place - getting the kit man to pick a starting eleven and just letting them make it up as they go along would surely be much cheaper!

What you are describing isn’t an issue with formation, it’s an issue with style. Doesn’t matter a toss if you have 1, 2 or 3 up front. Or 2 or 3 in the middle of the park. The formation isn’t what is making them pass the ball so slowly or what is making the centre halves pass the ball between each other for 10 minutes at a time. You could change the formation but if the approach is the same you’ll see much the same thing.

I just think we have bigger issues than the shape of the team. Remember, playing a 433 had us getting knocked out of the league cup at the group stages and losing to a bunch a part timers in Andorra this year. With this group of players we’ll continue to be poor to average at best, especially when they are being asked to play so slowly and rigidly.

[HendoDelivered]

Ross was best manager we've had in recent times. He won't come back, I doubt anyone would come back tbh. Something about the way we treat managers here. I bet they are all glad to leave.

Lennon publicly admitted interest in coming back before Monty was appointed.

[xbar81]

Lennon publicly admitted interest in coming back before Monty was appointed.

Lennon is perhaps an exception. Bit of a different personality to other managers we've had. He probably wants to get stuck into Hearts as he said he doesn't like them.

[VoltaireHibs]

Lennon publicly admitted interest in coming back before Monty was appointed.

I cannot imagine any situation where Lennon, Ian Gordon and Ben Kensall get on for more than 5 minutes.

[Hibiza]

I'll get pelters for this but " Bring back Lenny " .

[xbar81]

Ross was a good, steady manager. I have nothing against the guy, or any previous Hibs manager with one or two exceptions (I'm looking at you Calderwood and Butcher), but for me he was a bit too much Bobby Williamson Mk2, quite an uninspiring guy, who delivered decent results playing uninspiring football. My favourite managers have had a bit about them, Mowbray, Stubbs, and yes, Lennon. I go to football, health permitting, to be entertained. Results are important, I want to see us top four etc, but in the absence of that I want to feel that buzz and be entertained by a team playing decent football. Weirdly, Lee Johnson, who I was happy to see the back of, possibly had sporadic performances that I really enjoyed. but waaaay too much bizarre dross in between.

What was wrong with Calderwood?

Butcher era was just embarrassing i agree.

[HendoDelivered]

I cannot imagine any situation where Lennon, Ian Gordon and Ben Kensall get on for more than 5 minutes.

Tbh, me neither.

[jakeshibs]

I wasn’t aware the support make the decisions on when to sack a manager?

of course you did as you are fully aware that the board react to fans as evidence is there for past few managers as fans wanted them out

[Bridge hibs]

What was wrong with Calderwood?

Butcher era was just embarrassing i agree.

What was wrong with Calderwood ? Perhaps winning 12 games out of 49 would be a start 😳

[Keepthefaith]

Ross was best manager we've had in recent times. He won't come back, I doubt anyone would come back tbh. Something about the way we treat managers here. I bet they are all glad to leave.

On what evidence? So much ***** being aired here as fact which is based on nothing more than individual opinion from folk who have an agenda against the club.

IIRC Stubbs, Maloney and Johnson all spoke well about the club after they left. Lennon departed under a cloud of his own alleged misdemeanor?

I'm so tired of this incessant sniping based on lies. Our support is toxic at the moment.

[xbar81]

What was wrong with Calderwood ? Perhaps winning 12 games out of 49 would be a start 😳

Saw higginbottom on Sky today. Do you think there was a good manager in there somewhere?

[B.H.F.C]

Saw higginbottom on Sky today. Do you think there was a good manager in there somewhere?

Went on to do well elsewhere but he wasn’t doing well for us. Managers can’t just get an indefinite amount of time because you think there’s something there. At the point of his sacking he was on a run of 1 win in 16 league games.

[Bridge hibs]

Saw higginbottom on Sky today. Do you think there was a good manager in there somewhere?

I didn't mind him to be honest and looking what he done with Sheffield Utd shows he had something in his locker and I also think he was unfairly sacked by Utd

[The Wireless]

Should have stuck with Ross.

The Cup Final against St Johnstone killed him. It was a game where we were truly rotten and it haunted him to the end. Collectively the team were awful and never learned any lessons from the earlier defeat by the same opposition prior to this game. In his defence he had no financial backing and had to work under difficult conditions during the pandemic which were not recognised. He was in my years of following Hibs not even close to the worst manager we needed to relieve of his duties. However it is a results driven business and any manager who thinks he can buy time in the game today is in trouble.

[VoltaireHibs]

What was wrong with Calderwood?

Butcher era was just embarrassing i agree.

Calderwood? I find it helps a manager if he doesn't permanently look like he wants to find the exit door as soon as he's arrived. And dour doesn't begin to describe him. I suppose I don't hate him, I reserve hate for those in the world that truly deserve it, not some guy that manages my club for ten minutes.

[Baader]

What was wrong with Calderwood?

Butcher era was just embarrassing i agree.

Can't stand Calderwood either. Completely disinterested with zero charisma and about as uninspiring as you could ever get. His bag of sweeties nonsense was a compete embarrassment and showed disrespect to our club. A clown basically.

[TrinityHFC]

Saw higginbottom on Sky today. Do you think there was a good manager in there somewhere?

I can only think of Danny, who I don’t think has had a managerial career?

[HoboHarry]

I can only think of Danny, who I don’t think has had a managerial career?

I see him regularly over here as a studio guest on match days......

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Went on to do well elsewhere but he wasn’t doing well for us. Managers can’t just get an indefinite amount of time because you think there’s something there. At the point of his sacking he was on a run of 1 win in 16 league games.

there was some interesting chat on Sportsound this Sunday. He was an Aussie manager - didn’t catch his name. He’d worked with Guus Hidding and then the boy that took over the Dutch team from him. He said he’d changed his view on management - away from the my way or you’re not playing (Hiddink) to his successor who was more about knowing the player as a person, get them to be in a position wheee they are mentally prepared all things being equal in terms of fitness it’s the determining factor.
I say this as I see similarities with Hibs and Heckingbottom in actual fact I asked him about the psychological side of things at Hibs.net visit to HTC. He did allude the time I thought that a lot of it is in the players heads. Take Doidge for example - bit of belief bam on a goal scoring spree - pity for Hecky that was after he left. Vela - who knows then Newell (albeit played out of position).
this Aussie said in Oz the players have the right lifestyle, and character but they wouldn’t be taking what they are told to do - so there needs to be differed t approach. You need to get them to take wieneshio and think for themselves. As a support I’m sure this thinking will prob divide opinion. But Butchers tell em how it is doesn’t work for sure…

[JammyDoidger]

It was meant to be. Molotnikov was dropping too deep and was hooked.

It baffles me this debate. The manager couldn’t be clearer. He’s said this on more than one occasion. It’s 442. It’s always 442. It’s the system he plays and has played it in every single game and he’s not changing it.

The manager can say what he likes. He doesn't play a 4-4-2, if he played a 5-3-2 he could say it was a 3-5-2...
The formation is predictable, negative and boring, and he's took the sting out of our attacking players, id imagine the likes of Youan and Vente would be open to a move already as there is no way they're enjoying their football under Monty.

[jakeshibs]

The manager can say what he likes. He doesn't play a 4-4-2, if he played a 5-3-2 he could say it was a 3-5-2...
The formation is predictable, negative and boring, and he's took the sting out of our attacking players, id imagine the likes of Youan and Vente would be open to a move already as there is no way they're enjoying their football under Monty.

442 should allow plenty freedom for the forwards, we all know that once on the park the players make the space to open up the opposition and make their own chances.

[Since452]

What was wrong with Calderwood ? Perhaps winning 12 games out of 49 would be a start 😳

He is the very definition of a number two, in more than one sense...

I don't think he was our worst manager ever but he didn't ever seen happy to be at the club, was disrespectful and i didn't enjoy the football. Just a cock in my opinion. I remember on hearing we'd appointed Calderwood i was pretty pleased. I thought it was Jimmy...

[Paulie Walnuts]

He is the very definition of a number two, in more than one sense...

I don't think he was our worst manager ever but he didn't ever seen happy to be at the club, was disrespectful and i didn't enjoy the football. Just a cock in my opinion. I remember on hearing we'd appointed Calderwood i was pretty pleased. I thought it was Jimmy...

I don’t know where he actually falls in terms of worst manager ever sort of thing but his record here was horrific.

[Since452]

Should have stuck with Ross.

Been discussed a million times but it was a big mistake. Felt Jack was a good fit for us and his record was very impressive and held up against any Hibs manager, even with the poor run at the end. I really enjoyed Ross's time at Hibs and i'm still fuming at the pathetic transfer window after we finished 3rd. That was our chance to push on.

[Heisenberg]

Colin Calderwood taking the Hibs team he had to Ibrox and winning 3-0 still absolutely baffles my mind. Valdas Trakys put in some shift from memory.

[supermcginn]

Been discussed a million times but it was a big mistake. Felt Jack was a good fit for us and his record was very impressive and held up against any Hibs manager, even with the poor run at the end. I really enjoyed Ross's time at Hibs and i'm still fuming at the pathetic transfer window after we finished 3rd. That was our chance to push on.

He's done well since leaving us, took over a Dundee Utd team that qualified for Europe, got two of the worst results in their history and was promptly emptied.

[blackpoolhibs]

Been discussed a million times but it was a big mistake. Felt Jack was a good fit for us and his record was very impressive and held up against any Hibs manager, even with the poor run at the end. I really enjoyed Ross's time at Hibs and i'm still fuming at the pathetic transfer window after we finished 3rd. That was our chance to push on.

Yip, and when you think of the money we spent on "projects" when decent pro's better than we had should have pushed us on was real bad club management, which we are still recovering from now.

[Since452]

Yip, and when you think of the money we spent on "projects" when decent pro's better than we had should have pushed us on was real bad club management, which we are still recovering from now.

Yup. We've never fully recovered from it.

[xbar81]

He is the very definition of a number two, in more than one sense...

I don't think he was our worst manager ever but he didn't ever seen happy to be at the club, was disrespectful and i didn't enjoy the football. Just a cock in my opinion. I remember on hearing we'd appointed Calderwood i was pretty pleased. I thought it was Jimmy...


:hahaha::hahaha::hahaha::hahaha::hahaha::hahaha:

[Brightside]

It was meant to be. Molotnikov was dropping too deep and was hooked.

It baffles me this debate. The manager couldn’t be clearer. He’s said this on more than one occasion. It’s 442. It’s always 442. It’s the system he plays and has played it in every single game and he’s not changing it.

You are wrong on this. I can 100% assure you that they did not set up to play 442 v Forfar. That changed when Vente came on. Rudi was hooked because Mont wanted to get Vente on after saving him with Wednesday in mind.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I only caught a snatch of Sportsound Sunday programme and they had an Aussie manager on talking about his experience with the Dutch national team - anyone catch it fully? He compared and contrasted the approach by Guus Hiddink and his successor (FROM my way or you don’t play TO getting to understand the players as people and how to motivate them to achieve the goals) apparently the Aussies live the right life (I guess food and drink wise) and are decent characters but the current gen just won’t “do as you’re told” - they switch off.

I guess this style will spilt options…

[H18 SFR]

He’s starting to get players in now to play his system isn’t he?

[B.H.F.C]

He’s starting to get players in now to play his system isn’t he?

Would like to think they fit in to it. Will be interested to see where he intends to use them. Both he and Maolida said they think he’s best centrally so you’d think he’s going to play as one of the front two. My guess would be that Marcondes is more likely to then play off the right or left, he doesn’t strike me as one you’re going to use in a central two.

[happiehibbie]

I like the manager!
442 is better than one up front.IMO

he has a load of injuries players away on International duty

We're some supporters never happy I include myself,

The Board need to give him time and we need to suck it up and see if he can turn it around

Games against Rangers and Celtic wont define us but we need to do better against the rest.

That said I want to at least compete against the ugly sisters

[sorryfolks]

Anyone else thinking Marcondes might play alongside Newell, rather than further forward in the Vente role? Let Newell be the deep grafter of the midfield two - while still being technically proficient enough at taking the ball in tight areas - and have Marcondes to be the more advanced of the two breaking into the box etc

[HendoDelivered]

Anyone else thinking Marcondes might play alongside Newell, rather than further forward in the Vente role? Let Newell be the deep grafter of the midfield two - while still being technically proficient enough at taking the ball in tight areas - and have Marcondes to be the more advanced of the two breaking into the box etc

I’m thinking no. 10 role, allowing Vente to just focus on being an out and out 9 and not ending up in our box 🙌🏼

[GreenCastle]

Did we not play 4-2-3-1 against Hearts by the way?!!

[Keepthefaith]

I’m thinking no. 10 role, allowing Vente to just focus on being an out and out 9 and not ending up in our box 🙌🏼

my sense is that maolida is the strike partner for Vente and Marcondes will be our creative attacking midfielder, playing centrally

[B.H.F.C]

my sense is that maolida is the strike partner for Vente and Marcondes will be our creative attacking midfielder, playing centrally

First bit I agree with. Second bit, I’m not so sure about with us only playing two in the middle of the park.

[VoltaireHibs]

Anyone else thinking Marcondes might play alongside Newell, rather than further forward in the Vente role? Let Newell be the deep grafter of the midfield two - while still being technically proficient enough at taking the ball in tight areas - and have Marcondes to be the more advanced of the two breaking into the box etc

That would be my guess. Newell has the right skill set to play defensive sitter I think. We definitely need to ship a couple out though, and Dylan Levitt is probably sitting at home crying. Think his game time might be limited now. He's apparently a high earner so hopefully he can either step up (physically more than anything) or we can cut our losses without too much pain.

[Since452]

Did we not play 4-2-3-1 against Hearts by the way?!!

Whatever it was it was pish

[richard_pitts]

The Cup Final against St Johnstone killed him. It was a game where we were truly rotten and it haunted him to the end. Collectively the team were awful and never learned any lessons from the earlier defeat by the same opposition prior to this game. In his defence he had no financial backing and had to work under difficult conditions during the pandemic which were not recognised. He was in my years of following Hibs not even close to the worst manager we needed to relieve of his duties. However it is a results driven business and any manager who thinks he can buy time in the game today is in trouble.

We certainly did not replace with better and the lack of any coherent strategy off the pitch since has led to NM having to pick up the pieces. We have not replaced Hanlon and Stevenson and our other central defender is a loanee.

[CapitalGreen]

That would be my guess. Newell has the right skill set to play defensive sitter I think. We definitely need to ship a couple out though, and Dylan Levitt is probably sitting at home crying. Think his game time might be limited now. He's apparently a high earner so hopefully he can either step up (physically more than anything) or we can cut our losses without too much pain.

Newell is one of the most dribbled past players in the league.

[MikeyS]

Newell is one of the most dribbled past players in the league.


Careful now, facts such as this won't be tolerated!

If Marcondes comes in and does the business that we are all hoping and expecting then I would imagine it'll be Joe's slot that's up for grabs. Assuming we continue with the 2 in the middle of the park that is.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Careful now, facts such as this won't be tolerated!

If Marcondes comes in and does the business that we are all hoping and expecting then I would imagine it'll be Joe's slot that's up for grabs. Assuming we continue with the 2 in the middle of the park that is.

Without having seen Marcondes play, from the YouTube videos and descriptions of him I’d be very surprised if he’s taking one of the two CM places.

If we played a 3 in there he’d probably fit right in. As a 2, he sounds like he’d be far too attacking.

[Fergus52]

Newell is one of the most dribbled past players in the league.

Such a selective use of stats - he also makes high numbers of tackles and interceptions.

If you play in midfield in a team that plays open and expansive then you're going to get dribbled past - Shinnie and Lundstram are both ahead of him in the metric you mentioned yet are two of the most effective ball winners in the league.

[Fergus52]

Without having seen Marcondes play, from the YouTube videos and descriptions of him I’d be very surprised if he’s taking one of the two CM places.

If we played a 3 in there he’d probably fit right in. As a 2, he sounds like he’d be far too attacking.

Agree with this - from what I've seen and read there's no way he plays centre mid in a 442.

Looks like he's played up front or attacking mid all his career apart from a brief stint as an 8 in a midfield 3 for Brentford - he's never played in a double pivot like the centre mids do in our system.

The last couple of months Vente has been dropping extremely deep and basically playing as a 10 - think Marcondes will take on this role.

[Hibernian Verse]

Can't wait to see the 4-4-2 Montysaurus in action tomorrow with Emiliano behind Vente.

[ruthven_raiders]

Agree with this - from what I've seen and read there's no way he plays centre mid in a 442.

Looks like he's played up front or attacking mid all his career apart from a brief stint as an 8 in a midfield 3 for Brentford - he's never played in a double pivot like the centre mids do in our system.

The last couple of months Vente has been dropping extremely deep and basically playing as a 10 - think Marcondes will take on this role.

I read this week saying he doesn't see himself as a no 8, he says he's definitely more of a no 10, so easing the pressure on vente, he can stay up top and marcondes can be just behind linking up between vente and midfield.

[Donegal Hibby]

Can't wait to see the 4-4-2 Montysaurus in action tomorrow with Emiliano behind Vente.

That's were I think Marcondes will play too , behind the striker as a 10 . Wonder though were Maolida plays and who drops out? . Didn't he not say he likes to play in the centre as a striker? .

[overdrive]

That's were I think Marcondes will play too , behind the striker as a 10 . Wonder though were Maolida plays and who drops out? . Didn't he not say he likes to play in the centre as a striker? .

Everyone is assuming Vente will be a starter. I have a feeling he might be the one to drop out

[Donegal Hibby]

Everyone is assuming Vente will be a starter. I have a feeling he might be the one to drop out

With the competition we have now upfront it's going to be very interesting to see who Monty goes with when there all available. I think we might see Marcondes starting regularly as a 10 behind the striker wither it's Vente or Maolida. Good thing though is whoever's got the shirt now can't let there levels drop as there's plenty of options to change it now .

[Since452]

We have an insane amount of attacking players now.

Marcondes
Maolida
Youan
Vente
Boyle
Doidge
Tavares

There are going to be some unhappy players in there not getting a game.

[Paulie Walnuts]

We have an insane amount of attacking players now.

Marcondes
Maolida
Youan
Vente
Boyle
Doidge
Tavares

There are going to be some unhappy players in there not getting a game.

McKirdy as well.

[B.H.F.C]

We have an insane amount of attacking players now.

Marcondes
Maolida
Youan
Vente
Boyle
Doidge
Tavares

There are going to be some unhappy players in there not getting a game.

There are four places up for grabs be it wide or central.

Rare that they will all be available (Boyle away just now and you’ve missed ALF).

We’ve only added two but if you look at our bench lately we’ve had very little to choose from. We need the numbers.

[eastmainsmsh]

Wonder if anyone will bid for Vente he was linked with Few championship clubs Sunderland and Blackburn before

[CapitalGreen]

Wonder if anyone will bid for Vente he was linked with Few championship clubs Sunderland and Blackburn before

He’s still not automatically eligible for a work permit down south, any club trying to sign him would need to appeal for one with an exceptions panel.

[HendoDelivered]

That's were I think Marcondes will play too , behind the striker as a 10 . Wonder though were Maolida plays and who drops out? . Didn't he not say he likes to play in the centre as a striker? .

Reckon wide left or right. I’m sure hes played more games as a left winger than anywhere else, altho maybe not by a big distance.

[RIP]

We have an insane amount of attacking players now.

Marcondes
Maolida
Youan
Vente
Boyle
Doidge
Tavares

There are going to be some unhappy players in there not getting a game.

Given that Montysausus could only muster one striker against the mighty Forfar, it looks like the rest will be battling for starting positions to pick up the ball somewhere along the halfway line.

:-)

[Brightside]

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/nick-montgomery/leistungsdatenDetail/trainer/93824

Just to add to the initial debate. I noticed they said 4231 on here - same as a few people spotted. Also same with the Hearts game. I think thats all that others have suggested. He does use 442 but its not set in stone and he plays many variations. Hopefully the new squad members will help it shine.

[Since452]

McKirdy as well.

Yup and ALF as B.H.F.C pointed out. 9 strikers/wingers? Interesting strategy!

[MikeyS]

Wonder if anyone will bid for Vente he was linked with Few championship clubs Sunderland and Blackburn before

If he played for Dutch side this season then he'll be going nowhere. Sure you can only play for 2 teams in a season.

[HoboHarry]

If he played for Dutch side this season then he'll be going nowhere. Sure you can only play for 2 teams in a season.
He signed for us in the summer window no?

[JimBHibees]

Whatever it was it was pish

We weren’t really pish against Hearts. Tight game we shouldn’t have lost.

[Hibs4185]

Buzzing with the new signings and all the work that has been done this window, but one thing for sure, if Monty doesn’t start to get a tune out of the squad, I think the management are going to start getting an itchy trigger finger.

Cant see Foley or the Gordons liking the prospect of two big money signings floundering around in a poor team.

[xbar81]

Given that Montysausus could only muster one striker against the mighty Forfar, it looks like the rest will be battling for starting positions to pick up the ball somewhere along the halfway line.

:-)

Forfar were a stuffy side with nothing to lose and the players would have it drilled into them that we weren't exactly world beaters. They gave it their all and hoped for a Darvel.

[superfurryhibby]

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/nick-montgomery/leistungsdatenDetail/trainer/93824

Just to add to the initial debate. I noticed they said 4231 on here - same as a few people spotted. Also same with the Hearts game. I think thats all that others have suggested. He does use 442 but its not set in stone and he plays many variations. Hopefully the new squad members will help it shine.

4-2-3-1
Jan 2, 2024 Scottish Premiership 23/24 22 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 2:2 Motherwell FC Motherwell FC 4-4-2
Dec 27, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 20 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 0:1 Heart of Midlothian FC Heart of Midl. 4-2-3-1
Dec 16, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 21 St. Johnstone St. Johnstone FC 1:0 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 4-4-2
Dec 9, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 17 Livingston FC Livingston FC 0:1 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 4-4-2
Dec 6, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 16 Celtic Celtic FC 4:1 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 4-4-2
Dec 3, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 15 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 2:0 Aberdeen FC Aberdeen FC 4-4-2
Nov 25, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 14 Dundee FC Dundee FC 1:2 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 4-4-2
Nov 11, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 13 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 1:0 Kilmarnock FC Kilmarnock FC 4-4-2
Nov 8, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 12 St. Mirren St. Mirren FC 2:2 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 4-4-1-1
Nov 4, 2023 Scottish League Cup 23/24 Semi-Finals Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 0:1 Aberdeen FC Aberdeen FC 4-4-2
Oct 31, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 11 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 2:2 Ross County FC Ross County 4-4-2
Oct 28, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 10 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 0:0 Celtic FC Celtic 4-4-2
Oct 21, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 9 Rangers Rangers FC 4:0 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 4-4-2
Oct 7, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 8 Heart of Midl. Heart of Midlothian FC 2:2 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 4-4-2
Sep 30, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 7 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 0:0 Dundee FC Dundee FC 4-4-2
Sep 27, 2023 Scottish League Cup 23/24 Quarter-Finals Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 4:2 St. Mirren FC St. Mirren 4-4-2
Sep 23, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 6 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 2:0 St. Johnstone FC St. Johnstone 4-4-2
Sep 16, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 5 Kilmarnock FC Kilmarnock FC 2:2 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 4-4-2



He can play all the variations on a theme that he likes, the end result remains that it doesn't work. It's boring and wasteful of what talent we have already at the club.

Matches W D L Points PPM
19 7 7 5 28 1.47-this clearly isn't accurate as it includes two cup games which we won and one which we lost. He has played 16 league games and gathered 22 points.

[VoltaireHibs]

Newell is one of the most dribbled past players in the league.

In the system he's playing and the job he's being asked to do I'm not remotely surprised. Lothar Mathias would struggle in that role.

[Brightside]

4-2-3-1
Jan 2, 2024 Scottish Premiership 23/24 22 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 2:2 Motherwell FC Motherwell FC 4-4-2
Dec 27, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 20 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 0:1 Heart of Midlothian FC Heart of Midl. 4-2-3-1
Dec 16, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 21 St. Johnstone St. Johnstone FC 1:0 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 4-4-2
Dec 9, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 17 Livingston FC Livingston FC 0:1 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 4-4-2
Dec 6, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 16 Celtic Celtic FC 4:1 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 4-4-2
Dec 3, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 15 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 2:0 Aberdeen FC Aberdeen FC 4-4-2
Nov 25, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 14 Dundee FC Dundee FC 1:2 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 4-4-2
Nov 11, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 13 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 1:0 Kilmarnock FC Kilmarnock FC 4-4-2
Nov 8, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 12 St. Mirren St. Mirren FC 2:2 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 4-4-1-1
Nov 4, 2023 Scottish League Cup 23/24 Semi-Finals Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 0:1 Aberdeen FC Aberdeen FC 4-4-2
Oct 31, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 11 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 2:2 Ross County FC Ross County 4-4-2
Oct 28, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 10 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 0:0 Celtic FC Celtic 4-4-2
Oct 21, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 9 Rangers Rangers FC 4:0 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 4-4-2
Oct 7, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 8 Heart of Midl. Heart of Midlothian FC 2:2 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 4-4-2
Sep 30, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 7 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 0:0 Dundee FC Dundee FC 4-4-2
Sep 27, 2023 Scottish League Cup 23/24 Quarter-Finals Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 4:2 St. Mirren FC St. Mirren 4-4-2
Sep 23, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 6 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 2:0 St. Johnstone FC St. Johnstone 4-4-2
Sep 16, 2023 Scottish Premiership 23/24 5 Kilmarnock FC Kilmarnock FC 2:2 Hibernian FC Hibernian FC 4-4-2



He can play all the variations on a theme that he likes, the end result remains that it doesn't work. It's boring and wasteful of what talent we have already at the club.

Matches W D L Points PPM
19 7 7 5 28 1.47-this clearly isn't accurate as it includes two cup games which we won and one which we lost. He has played 16 league games and gathered 22 points.

You didn't really need to repost the data - that why I gave the link. Ive no issue with saying he should be doing better. But I'm also confident that he will once he gets a chance clean up the mess of muddled recruitment and square pegs.

[VoltaireHibs]

Careful now, facts such as this won't be tolerated!

If Marcondes comes in and does the business that we are all hoping and expecting then I would imagine it'll be Joe's slot that's up for grabs. Assuming we continue with the 2 in the middle of the park that is.


Facts...you mean a context-less stat? Oh...those facts...😂

[superfurryhibby]

You didn't really need to repost the data - that why I gave the link. Ive no issue with saying he should be doing better. But I'm also confident that he will once he gets a chance clean up the mess of muddled recruitment and square pegs.

Sorry, but your post wasn't particularly clear, you said " He does use 442 but its not set in stone and he plays many variations". I gave more context, as what you said was in my view incorrect. I think I can post what I want without consulting you though.

I'm glad you're confident about Monty. I also hope he comes good, but I also have my doubts.

[overdrive]

If he played for Dutch side this season then he'll be going nowhere. Sure you can only play for 2 teams in a season.

He didn't play for Roda this season. Not a competitive game anyway which is what matters.

[xbar81]

have to admit i really used to like 442.

352 was a polite way of saying 532 (as in defensive)

[wookie70]

have to admit i really used to like 442.

352 was a polite way of saying 532 (as in defensive) I still do but with teams usually having 3 in the middle you need the right players and speed of play to make it work. I don't think we have either of those and I'm not convinced speed of play is an ambition looking at how much we have slowed down since the first week or two. I'd love to see a team play 442 the old way with wingers targeting fullbacks every time they could and frequent use of the early ball to a big guy up top who would flick on for a quick wee goal scorer. No idea if it would work but it would be much more exciting to watch than the style we play even done well which we are miles away from being able to do

[xbar81]

I still do but with teams usually having 3 in the middle you need the right players and speed of play to make it work. I don't think we have either of those and I'm not convinced speed of play is an ambition looking at how much we have slowed down since the first week or two. I'd love to see a team play 442 the old way with wingers targeting fullbacks every time they could and frequent use of the early ball to a big guy up top who would flick on for a quick wee goal scorer. No idea if it would work but it would be much more exciting to watch than the style we play even done well which we are miles away from being able to do


424 was the most basic formation in football.

4 defenders, 4 strikers 2 link men:thumbsup:

[CropleyWasGod]

424 was the most basic formation in football.

4 defenders, 4 strikers 2 link men:thumbsup:

cough..... 2 3 5 :greengrin

[greenlex]

cough..... 2 3 5 :greengrin
Yup. I’ve never heard of the famous four.

[xbar81]

cough..... 2 3 5 :greengrin

no not a jimmy calderwood special :-)

nor a levein 460 special either

Gotta have a flat back 4 :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

no not a jimmy calderwood special :-)

nor a levein 460 special either

Gotta have a flat back 4 :greengrin

Was a Hugh Shaw special :cb

[BILLYHIBS]

I’m old enough to remember 2-3-5

Centrefold of the match programme every other week

You knew where you stood same went for the players :greengrin

[RossScott1991]

The part from his post match below I found genuinely incredible. Proper delusional stuff about build up. I’m afraid we have another dud on our hands.

Hibernian head coach Nick Montgomery: "I don't think it was a 3-0 game. It becomes a 3-0 game because we miss massive moments. If you don't take your chances against a team like this, they're going to punish you.
"In build-up we were very good, we got out quite easy, we created opportunities. We just need to be more clinical.
"It's a difficult period for the club and me as a manager, we've got nine or 10 first-team boys unavailable."
Montgomery added that he is looking to add more signings before the transfer window closes next week.

[B.H.F.C]

The part from his post match below I found genuinely incredible. Proper delusional stuff about build up. I’m afraid we have another dud on our hands.

Hibernian head coach Nick Montgomery: "I don't think it was a 3-0 game. It becomes a 3-0 game because we miss massive moments. If you don't take your chances against a team like this, they're going to punish you.
"In build-up we were very good, we got out quite easy, we created opportunities. We just need to be more clinical.
"It's a difficult period for the club and me as a manager, we've got nine or 10 first-team boys unavailable."
Montgomery added that he is looking to add more signings before the transfer window closes next week.

I don’t think there is too much wrong with that.

They were 2-0 up at half time but we’d had equally as good chances, there wasn’t really much in the game. And the best of the lot was the one we missed right after half time. But if you’re as ***** in both boxes as we are then you don’t deserve much.

[wookie70]

I don’t think there is too much wrong with that.

They were 2-0 up at half time but we’d had equally as good chances, there wasn’t really much in the game. And the best of the lot was the one we missed right after half time. But if you’re as ***** in both boxes as we are then you don’t deserve much. I think that is fair but at no time did I think we could play much better and I think The Rangers played at Friendly game pace. It is a pity we never scored to see if they could have got out of 1st gear but we will never know and they will have little issue recovering from their efforts tonight

[Real Emerald]

The part from his post match below I found genuinely incredible. Proper delusional stuff about build up. I’m afraid we have another dud on our hands.

Hibernian head coach Nick Montgomery: "I don't think it was a 3-0 game. It becomes a 3-0 game because we miss massive moments. If you don't take your chances against a team like this, they're going to punish you.
"In build-up we were very good, we got out quite easy, we created opportunities. We just need to be more clinical.
"It's a difficult period for the club and me as a manager, we've got nine or 10 first-team boys unavailable."
Montgomery added that he is looking to add more signings before the transfer window closes next week.

He’s definitely up against it with injuries and absentees but you have to adapt. If he had a power cut at home he’d keep trying the light switch rather than lighting a candle. It’s not coming across as very intelligent.

[B.H.F.C]

I think that is fair but at no time did I think we could play much better and I think The Rangers played at Friendly game pace. It is a pity we never scored to see if they could have got out of 1st gear but we will never know and they will have little issue recovering from their efforts tonight

I agree with them playing well below maximum. They were actually off it early on IMO but this team don’t have it in them to sense that and go for it.

I did think we could have done a lot of things much better though. We make so many basic mistakes.

[ehf]

I think that is fair but at no time did I think we could play much better and I think The Rangers played at Friendly game pace. It is a pity we never scored to see if they could have got out of 1st gear but we will never know and they will have little issue recovering from their efforts tonight

Don’t agree with that. I have little faith in Monty but this was a crucial game for Rangers and they gave it everything; the intensity and cohesion of their play was several notches above ours.

[jeffers]

He’s definitely up against it with injuries and absentees but you have to adapt. If he had a power cut at home he’d keep trying the light switch rather than lighting a candle. It’s not coming across as very intelligent.

Is he really though. Bar Boyle and ALF, with the latter more an option off the bench, are the absentees such a big miss ? Before tonight’s game I’d have said we’d struggle in the centre of defence but that’s not why we lost tonight.

[Real Emerald]

Is he really though. Bar Boyle and ALF, with the latter more an option off the bench, are the absentees such a big miss ? Before tonight’s game I’d have said we’d struggle in the centre of defence but that’s not why we lost tonight.

I actually thought Obita had a brilliant game at CH considering he’s not one. Stevenson didn’t do a lot wrong either. It’s more the style of play and lack of any big leaders on the park. It’s not that long ago Porto was winding them up and getting the crowd going. All we’ve got now is tactical boring pish with no fight. The passing around at the back is now comical, what a farce.

[B.H.F.C]

I actually thought Obita had a brilliant game at CH considering he’s not one. Stevenson didn’t do a lot wrong either. It’s more the style of play and lack of any big leaders on the park. It’s not that long ago Porto was winding them up and getting the crowd going. All we’ve got now is tactical boring pish with no fight. The passing around at the back is now comical, what a farce.

Total lack of spirit on the park or anyone that is going to try and get people going a bit. They look like a sorry bunch. Sometimes football is quite basic and you just need to do simple things in a game like tonight. Put a tackle in, get the crowd going, play with a bit aggression. We do none of that. For me it’s part down to the way he sends us out to play, being so slow has the complete opposite impact on the crowd, and part down to the players just lacking the personality to do that kind of thing. Soft and easy to play against.

[jeffers]

I actually thought Obita had a brilliant game at CH considering he’s not one. Stevenson didn’t do a lot wrong either. It’s more the style of play and lack of any big leaders on the park. It’s not that long ago Porto was winding them up and getting the crowd going. All we’ve got now is tactical boring pish with no fight. The passing around at the back is now comical, what a farce.

Absolutely. We have gaps in the squad but we are better than we are showing imo and getting worse as weeks go by.

We have zero leaders in that squad though.

[VoltaireHibs]

I actually thought Obita had a brilliant game at CH considering he’s not one. Stevenson didn’t do a lot wrong either. It’s more the style of play and lack of any big leaders on the park. It’s not that long ago Porto was winding them up and getting the crowd going. All we’ve got now is tactical boring pish with no fight. The passing around at the back is now comical, what a farce.


This in spades. Whatever the merits of Porto as a player, he gave us an edge we sorely lack now.

[HerbDailly]

I'm pretty concerned. This season in the league;

We've only actually won 6 games,

We've only seen 3 home wins,

We've conceded 32 in 21, only 1 team has conceded more.


Obviously, a lot of this lies at LJ's feet, but after Monty's upturn in form through November we've returned to mediocrity.

Our last league win was 9th December, last at home, 3rd December. Fingers crossed for this last week of the window.

[Forza Fred]

I guess what troubled me most tonight was how Hibs players almost seemed 'scared' to take the lead.

Too many of them simply played the ball to a colleague as if their whole purpose was just to pass the ball and retain possession.

Apart from Youan, nobody seemed to try anything different.

[Brightside]

I don’t think there is too much wrong with that.

They were 2-0 up at half time but we’d had equally as good chances, there wasn’t really much in the game. And the best of the lot was the one we missed right after half time. But if you’re as ***** in both boxes as we are then you don’t deserve much.

Spot on.

[Edinburgh Green]

It’s paint by numbers football. Folk can call it 442, 4231 or whatever they like. It’s brutal and will ultimately get him the sack. The gap between the 2 midfielders who spend most of their time at the edge of our box and the 2 strikers who see very little of the ball is comical. By now every manager in the country knows our little routines from a goal kick and set up accordingly. I get the concept of it is to draw players out of their positions, but know one does it anymore as they know the routine. Grim

[Since452]

You can see the confidence draining by the game. They don't look like the same players we had in the second half of last season. Imagine we had to play Luzern now?

What's happened to Youan? Vente? Boyle? Levitt looks drained of belief.

Our starting lineup against Forfar was weird. A 16 and 17 year old brought in out of nowhere. Unsurprisingly they toiled in a game we were very fortunate to win. Then throwing Megwa in the deep end against far superior opposition after playing at Airdie all season was another strange one too. Completely hung him out to dry. He seems to think shoehorning youth in is the way to go and that was exactly my concern after his first couple of interviews.

The myth about him improving Jair is exactly that as well. He's not improved him. He's just given him game time. The guy is about as ineffective a winger as i've seen and couldn't get a game last season for a reason.

All of that and not even mentioned his predictable ***** tactics that any manager worth their salt could and are figuring out in five minutes.

Got to applaud Kensell really. He's excelled himself this time. He's found somebody even worse than Maloney and that's some achievement.

[One Day Soon]

It’s awful to watch, it’s sucking the life out of our players, it’s not working, it’s inflexible, it’s costing us points, it’s not playing to our strengths, it’s making our best players worse, it’s predictable and plodding, it’s becoming a fetish for the manager that he won’t let go and - unless I’m very much mistaken- it’s completely contrary yet again to what an incoming manager told us publicly which was that he wanted us to play exciting attacking football.

If he can’t either abandon altogether or at least vary this system and tactics then he needs to go - sooner rather than later. I don’t care that this would be yet another manager not given time because this is not working. We are frequently going backwards (even all the way to our keeper) from inside the opposition half. The psychology of our players is now such that they are looking for the back pass routinely, even in positions where the forward pass is the better choice. They seem to be fading into a place where it’s attempted possession for attempted possession’s sake, rather than with any real purpose. It can’t go on.

[Paulie Walnuts]

You can see the confidence draining by the game. They don't look like the same players we had in the second half of last season. Imagine we had to play Luzern now?.

Think that’s a good point when trying to work out if we’ve progressed or not. Would this side beat Luzern now? No chance. We’d likely get comfortably tucked away.

I also posted a few days ago, last season under LJ we had:

Hibs 4-0 Livi
Motherwell 2-3 Hibs
Hibs 6-0 Aberdeen
Livi 1-4 Hibs
Hibs 4-2 Celtic

Does anyone see us having games even half as exciting as these anymore? I’m no LJ fan, but this is worse than his tenure imo.

[The Modfather]

You can see the confidence draining by the game. They don't look like the same players we had in the second half of last season. Imagine we had to play Luzern now?

What's happened to Youan? Vente? Boyle? Levitt looks drained of belief.

Our starting lineup against Forfar was weird. A 16 and 17 year old brought in out of nowhere. Unsurprisingly they toiled in a game we were very fortunate to win. Then throwing Megwa in the deep end against far superior opposition after playing at Airdie all season was another strange one too. Completely hung him out to dry. He seems to think shoehorning youth in is the way to go and that was exactly my concern after his first couple of interviews.

The myth about him improving Jair is exactly that as well. He's not improved him. He's just given him game time. The guy is about as ineffective a winger as i've seen and couldn't get a game last season for a reason.

All of that and not even mentioned his predictable ***** tactics that any manager worth their salt could and are figuring out in five minutes.

Got to applaud Kensell really. He's excelled himself this time. He's found somebody even worse than Maloney and that's some achievement.

Instead of playing Whittaker against Forfar who would you have played at right back? Instead of Megwa last night who would you have played at right back?

[He's here!]

I'm pretty concerned. This season in the league;

We've only actually won 6 games,

We've only seen 3 home wins,

We've conceded 32 in 21, only 1 team has conceded more.


Obviously, a lot of this lies at LJ's feet, but after Monty's upturn in form through November we've returned to mediocrity.

Our last league win was 9th December, last at home, 3rd December. Fingers crossed for this last week of the window.

Does a lot of it really lie at LJ's feet? He was sacked after 3 league games.

[He's here!]

Think that’s a good point when trying to work out if we’ve progressed or not. Would this side beat Luzern now? No chance. We’d likely get comfortably tucked away.

I also posted a few days ago, last season under LJ we had:

Hibs 4-0 Livi
Motherwell 2-3 Hibs
Hibs 6-0 Aberdeen
Livi 1-4 Hibs
Hibs 4-2 Celtic

Does anyone see us having games even half as exciting as these anymore? I’m no LJ fan, but this is worse than his tenure imo.

Fair comment. I couldn't see LJ taking us any further than he did but at least on days when the team clicked we were entertained. As you say, no way we'd beat Luzern now. We'd lose both legs.

[Winston Ingram]

I'm pretty concerned. This season in the league;

We've only actually won 6 games,

We've only seen 3 home wins,

We've conceded 32 in 21, only 1 team has conceded more.


Obviously, a lot of this lies at LJ's feet, but after Monty's upturn in form through November we've returned to mediocrity.

Our last league win was 9th December, last at home, 3rd December. Fingers crossed for this last week of the window.

Does it? LJ qualified this squad for Europe. He also probably got us our biggest European result in 30-odd years and was sacked after 3 league games.

I'm not saying we should've kept LJ but our performances are all on Monty.

[superfurryhibby]

It’s paint by numbers football. Folk can call it 442, 4231 or whatever they like. It’s brutal and will ultimately get him the sack. The gap between the 2 midfielders who spend most of their time at the edge of our box and the 2 strikers who see very little of the ball is comical. By now every manager in the country knows our little routines from a goal kick and set up accordingly. I get the concept of it is to draw players out of their positions, but know one does it anymore as they know the routine. Grim

Yep, regardless of debates around the formation, people should just rely on what they see with their own eyes. The midfield is routinely overwhelmed by opponents who always seem to have an extra man in there.

There is no support for the forwards, who get isolated, sucked back into looking for the ball or defending the midfield two.

I don't even play football manager and rarely watch any games other than going to see Hibs and I was questioning Montyball before things turned really sour. He's shown that he's out of his depth big time.

The next run of fixtures, taking us to the end of Feb (Killie, St Mirren, Dundee, Celtic, Aberdeen, Hearts-not necessarily in that order) . You have to wonder where we will be in the league by then ?

[sean]

Does a lot of it really lie at LJ's feet? He was sacked after 3 league games.

Why does this lie at LJs feet.

The style of play is killing us.

We looked rudderless under LJ by the end and he had to go he did however give us entertaining matches last season and we had real threat in the forward areas.

All we needed to do was shore it up at the back and try get a system where we could still utilise our best attacking options.

Vente is a superb example. He looked electric the first 5 matches to now playing in a system where he’s simply doing running, it’s utterly ridiculous.

None of that is on LJ.

[Carheenlea]

Short term pain for long term gain.

You need to have faith and trust in a manager to develop this, and while we’ve had enough “transitional periods” to last us all a lifetime, very few managers in the modern day are really getting the opportunity and time to do so. We all want results, that goes without saying, but we’ve now seen some movement of personnel and the start of a reshaping of squad. Players signing one day and straight into the team the next is obviously not going to yield instant results, particularly against a strong side like Rangers.

I have faith in the manager that he can get us going again once the window is closed and build up a bit of steam.

There are usually alarm bells ringing when the reality hits that there is no future with a manager. I’m not there yet with Nick Montgomery.

[sean]

Short term pain for long term gain.

You need to have faith and trust in a manager to develop this, and while we’ve had enough “transitional periods” to last us all a lifetime, very few managers in the modern day are really getting the opportunity and time to do so. We all want results, that goes without saying, but we’ve now seen some movement of personnel and the start of a reshaping of squad. Players signing one day and straight into the team the next is obviously not going to yield instant results, particularly against a strong side like Rangers.

I have faith in the manager that he can get us going again once the window is closed and build up a bit of steam.

There are usually alarm bells ringing when the reality hits that there is no future with a manager. I’m not there yet with Nick Montgomery.

Doesn’t matter about any of that mate, if you don’t win games of football you won’t be in a job a long time, it’s the way it is.

We can give it the big one as a club about doing it differently, nicks the right man, he needs time etc.

We all know once the fans turn the club will bend and sack him.

There’s no substance to his teams and we will continue to struggle till he’s sacked.

[easty]

Craig Levein went into St Johnstone when they were rooted bottom of the league. Rightly one of the strong favourties for relegation at the start of the season, with a terrible squad of players.

He's went in and worked with what he has and got them up the table.

It's not rocket science. You've got a squad of players, get the max out of them that you can.

I cannae remember seeing any stories in the news about Levein wanting to play his system and when he could get new players in to fit that system, then they'd see the results.

That's how ****ing bad it is just now...I'm using Craig ****ing Levein as a marker of doing things better than NM :confused:

[easty]

Short term pain for long term gain.

You need to have faith and trust in a manager to develop this, and while we’ve had enough “transitional periods” to last us all a lifetime, very few managers in the modern day are really getting the opportunity and time to do so. We all want results, that goes without saying, but we’ve now seen some movement of personnel and the start of a reshaping of squad. Players signing one day and straight into the team the next is obviously not going to yield instant results, particularly against a strong side like Rangers.

I have faith in the manager that he can get us going again once the window is closed and build up a bit of steam.

There are usually alarm bells ringing when the reality hits that there is no future with a manager. I’m not there yet with Nick Montgomery.

But, pretty much nothing about what we're what doing is particularly working. Is the transitional period the time it'll take to replace every player we had pre-Nick Montgomery to a brand new first team?

[sean]

Craig Levein went into St Johnstone when they were rooted bottom of the league. Rightly one of the strong favourties for relegation at the start of the season, with a terrible squad of players.

He's went in and worked with what he has and got them up the table.

It's not rocket science. You've got a squad of players, get the max out of them that you can.

I cannae remember seeing any stories in the news about Levein wanting to play his system and when he could get new players in to fit that system, then they'd see the results.

That's how ****ing bad it is just now...I'm using Craig ****ing Levein as a marker of doing things better than NM :confused:

Agreed. Said the same last night about levein.

He didn’t come in and try play some over playing, building out from the back ,over coached patterns of play not a ****ing chance.

He’s over complicating the league and it will be to his downfall.

[Greenworld]

Yep, regardless of debates around the formation, people should just rely on what they see with their own eyes. The midfield is routinely overwhelmed by opponents who always seem to have an extra man in there.

There is no support for the forwards, who get isolated, sucked back into looking for the ball or defending the midfield two.

I don't even play football manager and rarely watch any games other than going to see Hibs and I was questioning Montyball before things turned really sour. He's shown that he's out of his depth big time.

The next run of fixtures, taking us to the end of Feb (Killie, St Mirren, Dundee, Celtic, Aberdeen, Hearts-not necessarily in that order) . You have to wonder where we will be in the league by then ?The problem is our forwards are our midfield . They spend most of the game trying to close down players . They win the ball and because they are forwards look lost and usually give it straight back .
Last night was the first game I looked at and saw 11 individuals no team. The first time I've seen players down tools with 15 mins to go .
It's like they did not know what they were supposed to be doing .

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

[Jones28]

I am concerned.

[He's here!]

Craig Levein went into St Johnstone when they were rooted bottom of the league. Rightly one of the strong favourties for relegation at the start of the season, with a terrible squad of players.

He's went in and worked with what he has and got them up the table.

It's not rocket science. You've got a squad of players, get the max out of them that you can.

I cannae remember seeing any stories in the news about Levein wanting to play his system and when he could get new players in to fit that system, then they'd see the results.

That's how ****ing bad it is just now...I'm using Craig ****ing Levein as a marker of doing things better than NM :confused:

I posted a few weeks back that maybe we'd be better off under a vastly experienced Levein type manager and got a lot of flak for it. I wasn't suggesting we actually appointed Levein, just someone who knows how to operate in this league (eg McInnes).

Levein, incidentally, isn't the dinosaur we like to paint him as. Bar his abysmal time as Scotland boss his managerial record is strong. It would never happen but he'd do better at Hibs than any of our last 3 appointments.

[Greenio]

Doesn’t matter about any of that mate, if you don’t win games of football you won’t be in a job a long time, it’s the way it is.

We can give it the big one as a club about doing it differently, nicks the right man, he needs time etc.

We all know once the fans turn the club will bend and sack him.

There’s no substance to his teams and we will continue to struggle till he’s sacked.

Fans are bendy. They'll turn, savage the team and the manager, call for heads, never good enough etc etc, then, if we get a few wins, it's like, aye starting to make amends, then few more results and it's the old 'happy to be proved wrong

Look over the road. Naebadges was a baw hair away from getting emptied cos the fans had turned.... turned back now eh.

[sean]

I posted a few weeks back that maybe we'd be better off under a vastly experienced Levein type manager and got a lot of flak for it. I wasn't suggesting we actually appointed Levein, just someone who knows how to operate in this league (eg McInnes).

Levein, incidentally, isn't the dinosaur we like to paint him as. Bar his abysmal time as Scotland boss his managerial record is strong. It would never happen but he'd do better at Hibs than any of our last 3 appointments.

Mcinness was the obvious appointment for me.
Excellent manager where ever he’s been. Staring us in the face and we went left field again.

He might turn it round, personally I don’t see it.

[Heisenberg]

Mcinness was the obvious appointment for me.
Excellent manager where ever he’s been. Staring us in the face and we went left field again.

He might turn it round, personally I don’t see it.

He was the obvious choice when he was available but we went for Maloney. No chance he’s coming near us now. To be fair I’m not sure he was that keen back then either.

[hibsforeurope]

Teams have quickly worked us out, these tactics only work if the opposition play a certain way. Playing out form the back only works if the opposition press, they did initially but not they know how we play and they generally sit off, or the majority of the league don't press like teams in the big TV games.

It's also the lack of numbers in the middle of the park thats an issue, not sure there's a way to counteract this with the formation we play.

I don't want to sack another manager but it's a result driven industry, unfortunately his stubbornness and reluctance to change will get him sacked eventually.

[SickBoy32]

He was the obvious choice when he was available but we went for Maloney. No chance he’s coming near us now. To be fair I’m not sure he was that keen back then either.

McInnes can likely see right through the ***** from Kensell and co, and with his experience can imagine he’d be very unhappy with some (most) of these signings over the last few years !

That’s the reason we’ve not appointed him IMO, too strong a character.

We can sack another manager but nothing will improve at ER until we get a change of leadership (and I am far from sold on the Bournemouth situation, it all feels pretty bleak looking forward)

[bordergreen]

Short term pain for long term gain.

You need to have faith and trust in a manager to develop this, and while we’ve had enough “transitional periods” to last us all a lifetime, very few managers in the modern day are really getting the opportunity and time to do so. We all want results, that goes without saying, but we’ve now seen some movement of personnel and the start of a reshaping of squad. Players signing one day and straight into the team the next is obviously not going to yield instant results, particularly against a strong side like Rangers.

I have faith in the manager that he can get us going again once the window is closed and build up a bit of steam.

There are usually alarm bells ringing when the reality hits that there is no future with a manager. I’m not there yet with Nick Montgomery.

Pretty much where I am. Marcondes and Amos showed flashes of what we can expect from them last night. I am excited to see what can come from them. Adding Amos into our midfield will raise the tempo in there. Marcondes looks a quick intelligent player.

As people have said, we are screaming out for a quality centre back. If we get that, I am backing Monty to do well over the rest of the season. I still like Monty, and I still think he is the man to make us better. It is a brave decision from a manager to play his way, despite not having players good enough. Maybe he was trying to demonstrate what he needs to make us good.

He still has some credit in the bank with me.

Mon the Hibees!

[thebausburst]

McInnes can likely see right through the ***** from Kensell and co, and with his experience can imagine he’d be very unhappy with some (most) of these signings over the last few years !

That’s the reason we’ve not appointed him IMO, too strong a character.

We can sack another manager but nothing will improve at ER until we get a change of leadership (and I am far from sold on the Bournemouth situation, it all feels pretty bleak looking forward)

McInness has the Lennon attributes we all want in a Hibs side without the drama, case in point when the beat Celtic it was 0-0 at half time and Sky pitchside guy said you could hear McInness shouting at the players and they came out 2nd half and won. If it was 0-0 at half time with Hibs and Monty in charge he’d be praising how well they’ve done, managers set the culture, tone, style and standards, we are seeing that play out now with Monty imo, decent guy but we’re going nowhere and he’s way out his depth and just praying the scattergun signing policy can save him!

[Chipper1875]

Pretty much where I am. Marcondes and Amos showed flashes of what we can expect from them last night. I am excited to see what can come from them. Adding Amos into our midfield will raise the tempo in there. Marcondes looks a quick intelligent player.

As people have said, we are screaming out for a quality centre back. If we get that, I am backing Monty to do well over the rest of the season. I still like Monty, and I still think he is the man to make us better. It is a brave decision from a manager to play his way, despite not having players good enough. Maybe he was trying to demonstrate what he needs to make us good.

He still has some credit in the bank with me.

Mon the Hibees!
For me it’s not brave , it’s stupid . It’s Crystal clear , midfield gets over run . 2 v 3 will lose . Get away with against poorer teams.

His job is to get third , not try some ideology experiment

[BoomtownHibees]

Adding Amos into our midfield will raise the tempo in there

That will only happen if we can get our midfield 20-30 yards further forward than where they play just now. You could have any midfielder in the world in the current setup and they would look *****

[Paulie Walnuts]

It is a brave decision from a manager to play his way, despite not having players good enough.

I find that quite a hard logic to fathom. That isn’t brave to me, it’s naive, stupid and completely shows off his limitations.

Theres nothing brave about repeatedly doing something that you don’t have the tools to do.

[mcohibs]

Does it? LJ qualified this squad for Europe. He also probably got us our biggest European result in 30-odd years and was sacked after 3 league games.

I'm not saying we should've kept LJ but our performances are all on Monty.

Correct. People need to move on from LJ, it’s bordering on obsession now how much he’s mentioned on here. Even in his absence people still manage to blame him. Sacked after 3 games. Montgomery’s had 21 in charge, to no notable improvement.

Our form, playing style and results this season are on Montgomery. Talk about quality of recruitment all you want, but I’d hazard a guess you could find a few managers in the Scottish top flight alone that would get a better tune out of our current squad.

[He's here!]

He was the obvious choice when he was available but we went for Maloney. No chance he’s coming near us now. To be fair I’m not sure he was that keen back then either.

Suspect the Scotland job will be his next port of call.

[Stuart93]

Suspect the Scotland job will be his next port of call.

No chance. He’s nowhere near good enough for the scotland job.

[SickBoy32]

Does it? LJ qualified this squad for Europe. He also probably got us our biggest European result in 30-odd years and was sacked after 3 league games.

I'm not saying we should've kept LJ but our performances are all on Monty.

Nisbet was a massive part of the squad that finished 5th.

We’ve not replaced him suitably.

Unfortunately Montgomery hasn’t improved us much (if at all) from LJ, but our real problems lie higher up in the club than the dugout.

We won’t see a good hibs team whilst Kensell remains in post.

[sean]

I posted a few weeks back that maybe we'd be better off under a vastly experienced Levein type manager and got a lot of flak for it. I wasn't suggesting we actually appointed Levein, just someone who knows how to operate in this league (eg McInnes).

Levein, incidentally, isn't the dinosaur we like to paint him as. Bar his abysmal time as Scotland boss his managerial record is strong. It would never happen but he'd do better at Hibs than any of our last 3 appointments.

Mcinness was the obvious appointment for me.
Excellent manager where ever he’s been. Staring us in the face and we went left field again.

He might turn it round, personally I don’t see it.

[WhileTheChief..]

I actually thought Obita had a brilliant game at CH considering he’s not one. Stevenson didn’t do a lot wrong either. It’s more the style of play and lack of any big leaders on the park. It’s not that long ago Porto was winding them up and getting the crowd going. All we’ve got now is tactical boring pish with no fight. The passing around at the back is now comical, what a farce.

I'd have a team full of Porteous's right now. We've no one even close to showing a bit of passion on the pitch. Sorely missed.

Amazing that some folk think Rocky is a player and that Porteous was crap.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

I think Ben or whoever is in charge needs to be sitting down with NM tout suite and asking where we go from here. His beliefs on how he wants to play are admirable but it is absolutely not working with this squad of players so do we change the style to suit them or do we full on back him to bring in what he needs?

He’s been here a few months now so we will have a database of players suited to his style. Can we get any of them in now, even on loan?

Hard to judge in isolation based on last night, but over the past few weeks the style of play is ponderous, slow, cowardly and it’s a square ball every time. The ball is rarely ever played in front of a team-mate. The amount of times Megwa or Stevenson received the ball square on last night was horrific.

The hardest pill to swallow is that we are so easy to play against. For a team that’s designed to play possession football, we lose it in the final third 9 times out of 10.

How can a team line up with four attackers and be so boring to watch? It’s puzzling.

A good manager makes the most of what he’s got. We’re arguably making a decent attacking line-up look worse.

I like NM and I’m desperate for him to do well and give us stability but what I’m watching is boring. Passive, ponderous, slow and boring with absolutely zero tempo or sense of urgency.

[sean]

I think Ben or whoever is in charge needs to be sitting down with NM tout suite and asking where we go from here. His beliefs on how he wants to play are admirable but it is absolutely not working with this squad of players so do we change the style to suit them or do we full on back him to bring in what he needs?

He’s been here a few months now so we will have a database of players suited to his style. Can we get any of them in now, even on loan?

Hard to judge in isolation based on last night, but over the past few weeks the style of play is ponderous, slow, cowardly and it’s a square ball every time. The ball is rarely ever played in front of a team-mate. The amount of times Megwa or Stevenson received the ball square on last night was horrific.

The hardest pill to swallow is that we are so easy to play against. For a team that’s designed to play possession football, we lose it in the final third 9 times out of 10.

How can a team line up with four attackers and be so boring to watch? It’s puzzling.

A good manager makes the most of what he’s got. We’re arguably making a decent attacking line-up look worse.

I like NM and I’m desperate for him to do well and give us stability but what I’m watching is boring. Passive, ponderous, slow and boring with absolutely zero tempo or sense of urgency.


Great post

[Unseen work]

One thing that really annoys me about Montgomery as I get the feeling he thinks he’s got a ‘get out of jail free’ card by saying certain things in the interview after the game.

How many times after a poor performance has he said “more minutes for a 16 year old” or “more minutes for Jair he’s not played in 14 months”.

He’s also big on mentioning our chances/half chances whilst completely forgetting the opposition had more.

Last night for example he says we could have scored 2, whilst he’s not wrong rangers could have scored about 6.

Silva flashed one wide in the opening minutes
Dessers missed a 1 v 1
Marshall good save from Wright when he cut in from the left
The offside goal which I’m not convinced actually was - dodgy var line

[Up-the-slope]

Levitt I'm not convinced about - however. the midfield 2 currently look like they know the level of 'cover' from the 2 wide players is close to Zero - and unless we are pinning a team in then their full backs get the run of it effectively adding another midfielder and so they drop deeper and deeper trying to provide the cover others should be helping with. Our regularly changing full backs suffer from the same thing no cover and being overloaded.

Think of for example Jonny Hayes - a winger who in this league has created and scored countless goals - but who's work rate to cover back and defend is pretty exceptional too (which is why he has played wing back / full back / wide in a 4 / wide in a 3 ...

Some players are good enough what ever the system - some are only good in certain systems - frankly some are not good enough in any system..

I will leave it to others to to decide where certain players in current squad are

[Up-the-slope]

I think Ben or whoever is in charge needs to be sitting down with NM tout suite and asking where we go from here. His beliefs on how he wants to play are admirable but it is absolutely not working with this squad of players so do we change the style to suit them or do we full on back him to bring in what he needs?

He’s been here a few months now so we will have a database of players suited to his style. Can we get any of them in now, even on loan?

Hard to judge in isolation based on last night, but over the past few weeks the style of play is ponderous, slow, cowardly and it’s a square ball every time. The ball is rarely ever played in front of a team-mate. The amount of times Megwa or Stevenson received the ball square on last night was horrific.

The hardest pill to swallow is that we are so easy to play against. For a team that’s designed to play possession football, we lose it in the final third 9 times out of 10.

How can a team line up with four attackers and be so boring to watch? It’s puzzling.

A good manager makes the most of what he’s got. We’re arguably making a decent attacking line-up look worse.

I like NM and I’m desperate for him to do well and give us stability but what I’m watching is boring. Passive, ponderous, slow and boring with absolutely zero tempo or sense of urgency.

:aok: A well thought out rational assessment .... are you sure you are on the right forum :greengrin

[jeffers]

I think Ben or whoever is in charge needs to be sitting down with NM tout suite and asking where we go from here. His beliefs on how he wants to play are admirable but it is absolutely not working with this squad of players so do we change the style to suit them or do we full on back him to bring in what he needs?

He’s been here a few months now so we will have a database of players suited to his style. Can we get any of them in now, even on loan?

Hard to judge in isolation based on last night, but over the past few weeks the style of play is ponderous, slow, cowardly and it’s a square ball every time. The ball is rarely ever played in front of a team-mate. The amount of times Megwa or Stevenson received the ball square on last night was horrific.

The hardest pill to swallow is that we are so easy to play against. For a team that’s designed to play possession football, we lose it in the final third 9 times out of 10.

How can a team line up with four attackers and be so boring to watch? It’s puzzling.

A good manager makes the most of what he’s got. We’re arguably making a decent attacking line-up look worse.

I like NM and I’m desperate for him to do well and give us stability but what I’m watching is boring. Passive, ponderous, slow and boring with absolutely zero tempo or sense of urgency.

:agree: I agree with every word.

The majority of us have watched football long enough to see it’s not working and are making the same comments. I don’t believe we are all wrong. I don’t give a damn what the formation it’s the points you’ve made in your final sentence that’s the biggest issue imo.

I find it interesting that the same players Johnson regularly said weren’t listening to instructions now seem incapable of making decisions for themselves on the pitch.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

We’ve finally got an identity. It just so happens that it’s absolutely dugmeat.

Possession based walking football that results in us not keeping possession and losing easily avoidable goals.

[hibsbollah]

I think Ben or whoever is in charge needs to be sitting down with NM tout suite and asking where we go from here. His beliefs on how he wants to play are admirable but it is absolutely not working with this squad of players so do we change the style to suit them or do we full on back him to bring in what he needs?

He’s been here a few months now so we will have a database of players suited to his style. Can we get any of them in now, even on loan?

Hard to judge in isolation based on last night, but over the past few weeks the style of play is ponderous, slow, cowardly and it’s a square ball every time. The ball is rarely ever played in front of a team-mate. The amount of times Megwa or Stevenson received the ball square on last night was horrific.

The hardest pill to swallow is that we are so easy to play against. For a team that’s designed to play possession football, we lose it in the final third 9 times out of 10.

How can a team line up with four attackers and be so boring to watch? It’s puzzling.

A good manager makes the most of what he’s got. We’re arguably making a decent attacking line-up look worse.

I like NM and I’m desperate for him to do well and give us stability but what I’m watching is boring. Passive, ponderous, slow and boring with absolutely zero tempo or sense of urgency.

The problem with getting him to change systems is we appointed him precisely for the system he employed very successfully in Australia. The question is, is it better to persevere with him and his system while giving him cash in the hope that the new players ‘get’ the system in a way the old guys don’t, or just rip it up and start again with a bog standard 4231. But then you’re admitting defeat and saying the whole rationale for NMs appointment was wrong, and you may as well have employed Tam McCourt.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

The problem with getting him to change systems is we appointed him precisely for the system he employed very successfully in Australia. The question is, is it better to persevere with him and his system while giving him cash in the hope that the new players ‘get’ the system in a way the old guys don’t, or just rip it up and start again with a bog standard 4231. But then you’re admitting defeat and saying the whole rationale for NMs appointment was wrong, and you may as well have employed Tam McCourt.

That’s the quandary my good man. Again, if I’m Ben/Ian/Brian, I’m asking him what is the ethos? Is it going to be fast, fluid, high octane aggressive football in this 442 or is it going to be slow and mundane? What’s the end goal? If it’s the former, then fine, let’s go for it and give it a shot. If it’s a continuation of this table football style of play then I think a few hands need to be held up as an admission of getting it wrong once a-****ing-gain.

[Murphys Touch]

Modern football clubs have data analysis teams pouring over all sorts of stats.

Both Lovell/Collins have commented on the distance between our midfielders when they get the ball and the attackers. At one point last night we had 6 players all in a line on our 18 yard line…..and we were the ones in possession. The other 4 players were in a line on the half way line. The amount of skill, speed and “luck” to produce an attack from there is frightening

So these data analysis MUST be highlighting this to the management team. Areas of the park where we lose the ball, where we try and play from and is is surely telling them where it’s wrong

With greatest respect - Football Manager does this, surely Hibs are

[eastmainsmsh]

What Maybe Monty needs is an older head helping him Warnock or Stuart Mcall to find his feet as it’s different to A League

[jeffers]

The problem with getting him to change systems is we appointed him precisely for the system he employed very successfully in Australia. The question is, is it better to persevere with him and his system while giving him cash in the hope that the new players ‘get’ the system in a way the old guys don’t, or just rip it up and start again with a bog standard 4231. But then you’re admitting defeat and saying the whole rationale for NMs appointment was wrong, and you may as well have employed Tam McCourt.

The trouble is it’s results driven. As fans we will put up with performances that aren’t great if the results are going our way. The manager will then get at least some time to implement his philosophy. After a decent start to his time with us the results are tailing off.

No one would think any less of Monty if he changed his style in the interim, it wouldn’t mean he had to abandon his philosophy in the long term though.

[overdrive]

What Maybe Monty needs is an older head helping him Warnock or Stuart Mcall to find his feet as it’s different to A League

Surely McDermott is there for that.

[Heisenberg]

The trouble is it’s results driven. As fans we will put up with performances that aren’t great if the results are going our way. The manager will then get at least some time to implement his philosophy. After a decent start to his time with us the results are tailing off.

No one would think any less of Monty if he changed his style in the interim, it wouldn’t mean he had to abandon his philosophy in the long term though.

That’s it for me. If he kept getting results I couldn’t care less how we played. I wonder if he feels like he can’t go back with the players now, he’s come in and laid out the exact way we’re going to play and that it won’t change. Maybe feels like he can’t turn round now and tell them otherwise.

[bordergreen]

I find that quite a hard logic to fathom. That isn’t brave to me, it’s naive, stupid and completely shows off his limitations.

Theres nothing brave about repeatedly doing something that you don’t have the tools to do.

He could have tried to play the way our existing players were capable of, which would not have highlighted the lack of quaulity in our squad needed to make us better.

We are all Hibs fans, and we all want us to win. If we get a quality centre half in and show no improvement, I am as fickle as the next man, I will be questioning Monty the same as everyone else will. We also have new players and players to come back too. If he doesn't kick on after we have everyone back, I will get my pitchfork out and join the rest of you...

[Brightside]

Monty was pretty clear in his interview on his plan for the squad and in his style of play. He won’t change that and if he’s not given the time to implement what he wants then yes, he will be gone. But whoever the next guy is won’t last long either. At some point we need to stick with one.

[Since452]

What Maybe Monty needs is an older head helping him Warnock or Stuart Mcall to find his feet as it’s different to A League

It's worrying that that is even a suggestion and i'm not having a pop at you here by the way. We are Hibernian FC. We aren't, or shouldn't be a project for inexperienced A league managers needing a helping hand to guide them. We are one of the four biggest clubs in Scotland with a huge fanbase with the expectation that we'll be pushing for 3rd and Europe, especially with the massive investment in the squad in the summer.

I'm sick to death of the board fannying around with projects as managers and players. Been going on too long now. Get people in who know how to get results in this league. We are wasting time while our rivals pull ahead. We are a complete disjointed mess with no strategy other than filling our first team squad with nine strikers/wingers. Furious with it to be honest.

[eastmainsmsh]

Surely McDermott is there for that.

Agree think McDermott is doing well but I think Warnock or Mcall advising would take pressure off Monty no doubt he has potential as a manager and we badly need this to work this time

[One Day Soon]

Monty was pretty clear in his interview on his plan for the squad and in his style of play. He won’t change that and if he’s not given the time to implement what he wants then yes, he will be gone. But whoever the next guy is won’t last long either. At some point we need to stick with one.


We keep appointing managers who don't cut it. Who is responsible for that?

[Northernhibee]

Either way, if Monty goes than Kensell and Ian Gordon should be following him.

[Smartie]

Agree think McDermott is doing well but I think Warnock or Mcall advising would take pressure off Monty no doubt he has potential as a manager and we badly need this to work this time

I disagree with this.

If this sort of thing is what we need then we need to punt Monty and appoint Warnock or McCall.

He's either up to making decisions or not, and needs to be trusted and backed or not.

I'm pretty sure Warnock or McCall would pick up the phone to answer Montgomery any time he wanted to run something past them.

[Saint Hibee]

Monty was pretty clear in his interview on his plan for the squad and in his style of play. He won’t change that and if he’s not given the time to implement what he wants then yes, he will be gone. But whoever the next guy is won’t last long either. At some point we need to stick with one.

But maybe the next guy might actually be a bit more flexible about his tactics and style of play?

[AL-Qaholik]

Marshall

Miller/Cadden
Fish
Bushiri
Obita

Newell
Amos

Youan
Emiliano
Boyle

Vente

Even with a shoddy defence, that team wins games in this league.
442 suits none of those players.

[Alex Trager]

Either way, if Monty goes than Kensell and Ian Gordon should be following him.

Hard to disagree here.

[VoltaireHibs]

Either way, if Monty goes than Kensell and Ian Gordon should be following him.

Hahaha, should Ian just hand over the club? We're in the process of fixing errors, just unfortunate, to say the least, we have a stubborn manager. Yes, they chose him, but I was delighted we got NM, as were lots of others. He appears to be a turkey, it happens, that's football.

[Scorrie]

That’s the quandary my good man. Again, if I’m Ben/Ian/Brian, I’m asking him what is the ethos? Is it going to be fast, fluid, high octane aggressive football in this 442 or is it going to be slow and mundane? What’s the end goal? If it’s the former, then fine, let’s go for it and give it a shot. If it’s a continuation of this table football style of play then I think a few hands need to be held up as an admission of getting it wrong once a-****ing-gain.

I agree but surely these are the questions that were asked at interview?

[One Day Soon]

Hahaha, should Ian just hand over the club? We're in the process of fixing errors, just unfortunate, to say the least, we have a stubborn manager. Yes, they chose him, but I was delighted we got NM, as were lots of others. He appears to be a turkey, it happens, that's football.

He and BK certainly shouldn't be involved in running it - at least not anywhere near the footballing side. There is literally nothing to suggest they have the first clue on managers or players. No footballing background whatsoever. BK has been here for quite a period of time now and in football terms we have essentially stood still or gone backwards.

Managers have let us down badly, but someone keeps employing duds.

[Centre Hawf]

Hahaha, should Ian just hand over the club? We're in the process of fixing errors, just unfortunate, to say the least, we have a stubborn manager. Yes, they chose him, but I was delighted we got NM, as were lots of others. He appears to be a turkey, it happens, that's football.

We don't get the chance to question these managers like Ben/Ian/Brian will do. We can only go on their achievements or write ups, and NM's was positive to say the least. But as I said in another thread, surely there were conversations on how we would play under him? Alarm bells should have rung at some point in the conversation that this guy is married to one set up for life.

[Hibs90]

Hahaha, should Ian just hand over the club? We're in the process of fixing errors, just unfortunate, to say the least, we have a stubborn manager. Yes, they chose him, but I was delighted we got NM, as were lots of others. He appears to be a turkey, it happens, that's football.

How many managers has Ben hired now? All failures.

[Stevie Reid]

The problem with getting him to change systems is we appointed him precisely for the system he employed very successfully in Australia. The question is, is it better to persevere with him and his system while giving him cash in the hope that the new players ‘get’ the system in a way the old guys don’t, or just rip it up and start again with a bog standard 4231. But then you’re admitting defeat and saying the whole rationale for NMs appointment was wrong, and you may as well have employed Tam McCourt.

NM undoubtedly deserves credit for winning the most coveted tournament in Australia, and that series final win against Melbourne was a remarkable result. However, due to how that tournament is structured (which I really like), the pathway to success is very wide. Finish in the top six and you're potentially a handful of games away from winning the league.

CCM won that tournament last year with an overall record of P 29 W 16 D 5 L 8 - there can't be many countries in the world where winning 55% of your games brings such great success. Again, credit to NM for getting his team to that final and winning when it matters. But he was only in charge of CCM for 63 games (for context, Scott Brown managed Fleetwood for 64 games) - his win ratio of 51% is good but not exceptional, and it's just an incredibly small sample size to be basing anything on.

If he had a track record of many years of success over there, I'd probably understand the unshakable belief that some seem to have that his system/style will bring success over here. As it is, all I can see is a manager who did one thing that worked well in one country, who has tried to to exactly the same in another - regardless of the fact that the style of play is different, and that the players he has just aren't suited for it. I expect much more than that from a young, upcoming manager.

Pat Fenlon came to us in 2011 with an impressive record of league wins, with different teams, in Ireland. I liked wee Pat, he gave his all for Hibs (and had to work with some players of awful quality), but as much as he pulled us out of a hole when we needed him to, he was never going to be a big success with us.

I certainly don't recall posters on here stating that it was inevitable that things would click for us under Pat, because he'd won the league numerous times in Ireland - and he had a much more impressive track record than NM to fall back on.

I really hope that NM turns this around, but I don't hold out too much hope, regardless of the new arrivals, at this moment in time. He couldn't get the best out of impressive forward players before, so I don't know how much difference Maolida and Emiliano will make. Amos is a welcome addition to the midfield, but he'll get overrun if we continue to play only two in there.

His success in Australia is of no comfort to us right now. He needs to learn much quicker than he has done so far, or it's only going one way.

[Northernhibee]

Hahaha, should Ian just hand over the club? We're in the process of fixing errors, just unfortunate, to say the least, we have a stubborn manager. Yes, they chose him, but I was delighted we got NM, as were lots of others. He appears to be a turkey, it happens, that's football.

Yes. They know how to bring in money but it looks like they don’t have a ****ing clue about football.

After we finished third imagine if we tidied up the first team squad in key areas rather than get giddy about a developmental team.


Since STF sold up and we had a brief spell of relative success under Ross, the club has spent a lot of money and the football has gone to ****. If they and the b-grade Apprentice candidate can’t turn it around then enough is enough.

[He's here!]

I think Ben or whoever is in charge needs to be sitting down with NM tout suite and asking where we go from here. His beliefs on how he wants to play are admirable but it is absolutely not working with this squad of players so do we change the style to suit them or do we full on back him to bring in what he needs?

He’s been here a few months now so we will have a database of players suited to his style. Can we get any of them in now, even on loan?

Hard to judge in isolation based on last night, but over the past few weeks the style of play is ponderous, slow, cowardly and it’s a square ball every time. The ball is rarely ever played in front of a team-mate. The amount of times Megwa or Stevenson received the ball square on last night was horrific.

The hardest pill to swallow is that we are so easy to play against. For a team that’s designed to play possession football, we lose it in the final third 9 times out of 10.

How can a team line up with four attackers and be so boring to watch? It’s puzzling.

A good manager makes the most of what he’s got. We’re arguably making a decent attacking line-up look worse.

I like NM and I’m desperate for him to do well and give us stability but what I’m watching is boring. Passive, ponderous, slow and boring with absolutely zero tempo or sense of urgency.

It would be less puzzling if the front players were all poor, but each of them appears to have the individual ability to be more than capable of doing well in this league.

I've pretty much lost any sense of understanding of the way we're trying to play. What goes on in training?

[blackpoolhibs]

How many managers has Ben hired now? All failures.

And he sacked the only one who had any success, mad eh?

[VoltaireHibs]

NM undoubtedly deserves credit for winning the most coveted tournament in Australia, and that series final win against Melbourne was a remarkable result. However, due to how that tournament is structured (which I really like), the pathway to success is very wide. Finish in the top six and you're potentially a handful of games away from winning the league.

CCM won that tournament last year with an overall record of P 29 W 16 D 5 L 8 - there can't be many countries in the world where winning 55% of your games brings such great success. Again, credit to NM for getting his team to that final and winning when it matters. But he was only in charge of CCM for 63 games (for context, Scott Brown managed Fleetwood for 64 games) - his win ratio of 51% is good but not exceptional, and it's just an incredibly small sample size to be basing anything on.

If he had a track record of many years of success over there, I'd probably understand the unshakable belief that some seem to have that his system/style will bring success over here. As it is, all I can see is a manager who did one thing that worked well in one country, who has tried to to exactly the same in another - regardless of the fact that the style of play is different, and that the players he has just aren't suited for it. I expect much more than that from a young, upcoming manager.

Pat Fenlon came to us in 2011 with an impressive record of league wins, with different teams, in Ireland. I liked wee Pat, he gave his all for Hibs (and had to work with some players of awful quality), but as much as he pulled us out of a hole when we needed him to, he was never going to be a big success with us.

I certainly don't recall posters on here stating that it was inevitable that things would click for us under Pat, because he'd won the league numerous times in Ireland - and he had a much more impressive track record than NM to fall back on.

I really hope that NM turns this around, but I don't hold out too much hope, regardless of the new arrivals, at this moment in time. He couldn't get the best out of impressive forward players before, so I don't know how much difference Maolida and Emiliano will make. Amos is a welcome addition to the midfield, but he'll get overrun if we continue to play only two in there.

His success in Australia is of no comfort to us right now. He needs to learn much quicker than he has done so far, or it's only going one way.


An excellent post. 👍

[He's here!]

NM undoubtedly deserves credit for winning the most coveted tournament in Australia, and that series final win against Melbourne was a remarkable result. However, due to how that tournament is structured (which I really like), the pathway to success is very wide. Finish in the top six and you're potentially a handful of games away from winning the league.

CCM won that tournament last year with an overall record of P 29 W 16 D 5 L 8 - there can't be many countries in the world where winning 55% of your games brings such great success. Again, credit to NM for getting his team to that final and winning when it matters. But he was only in charge of CCM for 63 games (for context, Scott Brown managed Fleetwood for 64 games) - his win ratio of 51% is good but not exceptional, and it's just an incredibly small sample size to be basing anything on.

If he had a track record of many years of success over there, I'd probably understand the unshakable belief that some seem to have that his system/style will bring success over here. As it is, all I can see is a manager who did one thing that worked well in one country, who has tried to to exactly the same in another - regardless of the fact that the style of play is different, and that the players he has just aren't suited for it. I expect much more than that from a young, upcoming manager.

Pat Fenlon came to us in 2011 with an impressive record of league wins, with different teams, in Ireland. I liked wee Pat, he gave his all for Hibs (and had to work with some players of awful quality), but as much as he pulled us out of a hole when we needed him to, he was never going to be a big success with us.

I certainly don't recall posters on here stating that it was inevitable that things would click for us under Pat, because he'd won the league numerous times in Ireland - and he had a much more impressive track record than NM to fall back on.

I really hope that NM turns this around, but I don't hold out too much hope, regardless of the new arrivals, at this moment in time. He couldn't get the best out of impressive forward players before, so I don't know how much difference Maolida and Emiliano will make. Amos is a welcome addition to the midfield, but he'll get overrun if we continue to play only two in there.

His success in Australia is of no comfort to us right now. He needs to learn much quicker than he has done so far, or it's only going one way.

A sobering analysis. When you consider how brief his managerial career so far has actually been, was he really much better prepared for the Hibs job than Maloney was?

[richard_pitts]

And he sacked the only one who had any success, mad eh?

it is fair to say we have not got better since Ross got the heave-ho. Recruitment and player development has been a catastro-**** and that will take time to fix.

[flash]

One thing that strikes me is that if you are a manager who follows one, or even two, unsuccessful ones you ain't getting cut much slack.

You are supposed to come in and immediately get a tune out of the same set of players who just got your predecessor the boot.

I absolutely think NM has to become more adaptable with style and formation but let's not pretend switching to 352 or 433 will bring about some incredible transformation.

If memory serves we were pretty awful for long spells playing 433 not that long ago.

I am frustrated with the manager but will still give him this window and the summer to build his own team at which point it will be fair to make an informed judgement.

[SickBoy32]

And he sacked the only one who had any success, mad eh?

Sooner that muppet Kensell is gone the better - hopeless

[flash]

Sooner that muppet Kensell is gone the better - hopeless

What in particular is it you think he is failing at?

[HendoDelivered]

Sooner that muppet Kensell is gone the better - hopeless

Should stick to bringing the money in and dealing with the marketing and sponsorships side of things, not the footballing/playing side of it.

[SickBoy32]

What in particular is it you think he is failing at?

He’s the top man at the club, he’s taking the club nowhere.

Looking increasingly like 3 failed managerial appointments, that is his most important job.

I’m no interested in him using McDermott as a buffer either, he’s a salesman promoted way being his abilities.

If Montgomery is sacked Kensell has to go too - or do we let him try again for a 4th time ?

[Northernhibee]

I’ll be accused of doom mongering here but under Stubbs, Ross and others I was as happy clapper as can be.

We need to heed Hearts and Dundee United’s last relegation seasons. Bloated, expensively assembled Frankenstein’s monsters of squads. Players that are less than the sum of their parts. Other than brief new manager bounces, a revolving door of managers but things on the pitch don’t change.


The rot is setting in. We need bigger change than just the manager, fast. Hopefully Foley is what we need to do this because we could be in trouble next season.

[superfurryhibby]

One thing that strikes me is that if you are a manager who follows one, or even two, unsuccessful ones you ain't getting cut much slack.

You are supposed to come in and immediately get a tune out of the same set of players who just got your predecessor the boot.

I absolutely think NM has to become more adaptable with style and formation but let's not pretend switching to 352 or 433 will bring about some incredible transformation.

If memory serves we were pretty awful for long spells playing 433 not that long ago.

I am frustrated with the manager but will still give him this window and the summer to build his own team at which point it will be fair to make an informed judgement.

My uninformed judgement is that there is every chance he won't be here for much longer.

If Monty gets sacked, Kensall should go with him. Third failed manager under his belt, that is surely enough.

[The Modfather]

What in particular is it you think he is failing at?

Hiring the correct people who can put a successful team on the park, recruit well and coherently. It feels like the Petrie years, churning through squads and managers. The money he has done very well to bring in is being undone by repeatedly being wasted.

[richard_pitts]

He’s the top man at the club, he’s taking the club nowhere.

Looking increasingly like 3 failed managerial appointments, that is his most important job.

I’m no interested in him using McDermott as a buffer either, he’s a salesman promoted way being his abilities.

If Montgomery is sacked Kensell has to go too - or do we let him try again for a 4th time ?

I said the same after the Butcher fiasco - a series of failed appointments = board has to go. I believe NM will be alright in the long run, but he has to sort that defence.

[Northernhibee]

Hiring the correct people who can put a successful team on the park, recruit well and coherently. It feels like the Petrie years, churning through squads and managers. The money he has done very well to bring in is being undone by repeatedly being wasted.

At least under Petrie it was done on the cheap

If BK was smart he’d work on bringing the money in and other than reviewing KPIs leaving the footballing side well alone to do their jobs, whilst he works away in the background. He appears to have an ego the size of the moon however and I’m fed up of all the talk.

[flash]

My uninformed judgement is that there is every chance he won't be here for much longer.

If Monty gets sacked, Kensall should go with him. Third failed manager under his belt, that is surely enough.

Not sure he has failed yet though. Clearly not been a raging success but not failed.

[Brightside]

Marshall

Miller/Cadden
Fish
Bushiri
Obita

Newell
Amos

Youan
Emiliano
Boyle

Vente

Even with a shoddy defence, that team wins games in this league.
442 suits none of those players.

You realise that’s pretty much the formation we play all the time.

[flash]

He’s the top man at the club, he’s taking the club nowhere.

Looking increasingly like 3 failed managerial appointments, that is his most important job.

I’m no interested in him using McDermott as a buffer either, he’s a salesman promoted way being his abilities.

If Montgomery is sacked Kensell has to go too - or do we let him try again for a 4th time ?

Quite a good salesman presumably going by our vastly increased turnover.

[One Day Soon]

Hiring the correct people who can put a successful team on the park, recruit well and coherently. It feels like the Petrie years, churning through squads and managers. The money he has done very well to bring in is being undone by repeatedly being wasted.

I suspect Ron Gordon should take the lion's share of the credit for transforming the commercial side. BK and IG have been appalling on the football side - their record on managerial and player signings have been abject. Not surprising, they have no experience and no knowledge background in football. None.

[Northernhibee]

Quite a good salesman presumably going by our vastly increased turnover.

Big difference in being able to make a sale and running a business in a sustainable manner.

[hibsbollah]

NM undoubtedly deserves credit for winning the most coveted tournament in Australia, and that series final win against Melbourne was a remarkable result. However, due to how that tournament is structured (which I really like), the pathway to success is very wide. Finish in the top six and you're potentially a handful of games away from winning the league.

CCM won that tournament last year with an overall record of P 29 W 16 D 5 L 8 - there can't be many countries in the world where winning 55% of your games brings such great success. Again, credit to NM for getting his team to that final and winning when it matters. But he was only in charge of CCM for 63 games (for context, Scott Brown managed Fleetwood for 64 games) - his win ratio of 51% is good but not exceptional, and it's just an incredibly small sample size to be basing anything on.

If he had a track record of many years of success over there, I'd probably understand the unshakable belief that some seem to have that his system/style will bring success over here. As it is, all I can see is a manager who did one thing that worked well in one country, who has tried to to exactly the same in another - regardless of the fact that the style of play is different, and that the players he has just aren't suited for it. I expect much more than that from a young, upcoming manager.

Pat Fenlon came to us in 2011 with an impressive record of league wins, with different teams, in Ireland. I liked wee Pat, he gave his all for Hibs (and had to work with some players of awful quality), but as much as he pulled us out of a hole when we needed him to, he was never going to be a big success with us.

I certainly don't recall posters on here stating that it was inevitable that things would click for us under Pat, because he'd won the league numerous times in Ireland - and he had a much more impressive track record than NM to fall back on.

I really hope that NM turns this around, but I don't hold out too much hope, regardless of the new arrivals, at this moment in time. He couldn't get the best out of impressive forward players before, so I don't know how much difference Maolida and Emiliano will make. Amos is a welcome addition to the midfield, but he'll get overrun if we continue to play only two in there.

His success in Australia is of no comfort to us right now. He needs to learn much quicker than he has done so far, or it's only going one way.

I dont think anyone has said that success is ‘inevitable’ under Montgomery because of what he achieved in Australia. But it forms the rationale of why he was appointed.

[One Day Soon]

Quite a good salesman presumably going by our vastly increased turnover.

Decent commercial manager, in no way qualified to be a football club Chief Executive. It happens in every walk of life, people get promoted to the level above that which they are really qualified to be good at.

[SickBoy32]

Quite a good salesman presumably going by our vastly increased turnover.

Aye brilliant, I love watching the revenue every week.

He should not be in that role, simple as. Sales manager at best.

We’ve had far, far better sides with a smaller budget - which actually shows up his incompetence even more !

[superfurryhibby]

Not sure he has failed yet though. Clearly not been a raging success but not failed.

I suspect he will be gone after Saturday.

[Brightside]

I suspect he will be gone after Saturday.

Monty? Surely not.

[Unseen work]

I suspect he will be gone after Saturday.

Montgomery? What makes you think that?

[One Day Soon]

NM undoubtedly deserves credit for winning the most coveted tournament in Australia, and that series final win against Melbourne was a remarkable result. However, due to how that tournament is structured (which I really like), the pathway to success is very wide. Finish in the top six and you're potentially a handful of games away from winning the league.

CCM won that tournament last year with an overall record of P 29 W 16 D 5 L 8 - there can't be many countries in the world where winning 55% of your games brings such great success. Again, credit to NM for getting his team to that final and winning when it matters. But he was only in charge of CCM for 63 games (for context, Scott Brown managed Fleetwood for 64 games) - his win ratio of 51% is good but not exceptional, and it's just an incredibly small sample size to be basing anything on.

If he had a track record of many years of success over there, I'd probably understand the unshakable belief that some seem to have that his system/style will bring success over here. As it is, all I can see is a manager who did one thing that worked well in one country, who has tried to to exactly the same in another - regardless of the fact that the style of play is different, and that the players he has just aren't suited for it. I expect much more than that from a young, upcoming manager.

Pat Fenlon came to us in 2011 with an impressive record of league wins, with different teams, in Ireland. I liked wee Pat, he gave his all for Hibs (and had to work with some players of awful quality), but as much as he pulled us out of a hole when we needed him to, he was never going to be a big success with us.

I certainly don't recall posters on here stating that it was inevitable that things would click for us under Pat, because he'd won the league numerous times in Ireland - and he had a much more impressive track record than NM to fall back on.

I really hope that NM turns this around, but I don't hold out too much hope, regardless of the new arrivals, at this moment in time. He couldn't get the best out of impressive forward players before, so I don't know how much difference Maolida and Emiliano will make. Amos is a welcome addition to the midfield, but he'll get overrun if we continue to play only two in there.

His success in Australia is of no comfort to us right now. He needs to learn much quicker than he has done so far, or it's only going one way.


Scary but excellent post. I think it's fair to say that there's been some strong evidence that the person nominally running the club and the other guy who actually has all the power do like a speculative punt looking at past signings. In particular it feels like there's been a desire to prove how 'clever' they are in playing the football game. It's not impossible to view the NM appointment in exactly those terms given the content of your post.

That's not to say it won't succeed of course, though I highly doubt it.

[GreenCastle]

And he sacked the only one who had any success, mad eh?

Even more mad just before a cup final after one of my favourite ever Hibs games - beating Rangers 3-0 at Hampden with Boyle hat trick.

Ross had his flaws..

But the way we have regressed since is scary.

The biggest worry for me right now is I just can’t see this turning around. I like Monty but that makes it harder as he seems a decent guy but Monty and Sergio need to adapt and stop being so stubborn with the way we play.

We aren’t an experiment and with the players we have we don’t even look like a team.

We need to add to the central midfield and central defence and also need a new keeper - the spine of the team isn’t good enough and is constantly letting us down.

Our signing strategy is like our managers - hoping it turns out well rather than ready to go and ready to improve us. Each new player has landed with us for a reason - basically to get their career back on track. Would be nice to sign someone who is on the up and ready to push on without being a risk. I’m not saying what we have signed won’t improve us but we are simply not getting the best out of players.

It’s a mess and top 6 is seriously at risk. If we fail to get top 6 or even get put out by lower ranked Scottish cup opposition serious questions will be asked.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I suspect he will be gone after Saturday.

Would be stunned if that was the case.

If we were to get beat on Saturday though then St Mirren could potentially be getting into must win territory.

[Since452]

I’ll be accused of doom mongering here but under Stubbs, Ross and others I was as happy clapper as can be.

We need to heed Hearts and Dundee United’s last relegation seasons. Bloated, expensively assembled Frankenstein’s monsters of squads. Players that are less than the sum of their parts. Other than brief new manager bounces, a revolving door of managers but things on the pitch don’t change.


The rot is setting in. We need bigger change than just the manager, fast. Hopefully Foley is what we need to do this because we could be in trouble next season.


Just had a look at our squad on the fishy site. Makes for mental reading. 8 first team strikers when we only play 2. Reminds me of this time last year when LJ cleared a lot of players out as he said there were players moping about twiddling their thumbs. Went on to have a very good second half of the season. We've now reverted back to that, even worse in fact.

[blackpoolhibs]

I said the same after the Butcher fiasco - a series of failed appointments = board has to go. I believe NM will be alright in the long run, but he has to sort that defence.

I agree that we need a better defence and keeper, but last night the defence played no part in our defeat, we were well beat before the 3rd goal went in.

That midfield is sheite, we can go on and on about Newell being the best midfielder we have, or how Jair has turned round his carreer and how Levitt can see a pass, but in the real world they are pish, and that bloody midfield has been awful for more years than i care to remember.

EVERYONE can see it, but we seem to never be able to fix it, we continue to bring players in at some expense too, that are worse than we had.

:confused:

[jakeshibs]

He’s the top man at the club, he’s taking the club nowhere.

Looking increasingly like 3 failed managerial appointments, that is his most important job.

I’m no interested in him using McDermott as a buffer either, he’s a salesman promoted way being his abilities.

If Montgomery is sacked Kensell has to go too - or do we let him try again for a 4th time ?

why would we sack Kensell or Montgomery ?

Look at last night we did not exactly sell out against the Rangers, think too many fans have caused emough chaos for our club with constantly putting it down or slating the managers, we need to support the club and the players

[jeffers]

At least under Petrie it was done on the cheap

If BK was smart he’d work on bringing the money in and other than reviewing KPIs leaving the footballing side well alone to do their jobs, whilst he works away in the background. He appears to have an ego the size of the moon however and I’m fed up of all the talk.

What’s to say he isn’t doing that ? He’s far from perfect and he definitely needs to be more professional at times, but it’s not as if he appointed the managers on his own so why is he being held accountable ? He also recognised recruitment wasn’t working and pushed for a DoF.

Maloney was a big gamble, but Ron and the rest of the board were all taken in by Johnson’s bs (not the only board he’s managed that with though) and as flash said it’s not as if Monty has failed. If he goes on to fail then B McD will be culpable to some extent.

[superfurryhibby]

Montgomery? What makes you think that?

A hunch.

New investment incoming, he's shown he's out of his depth, the team is looking totally clueless and he's not good enough to change it.

He needs to win games, I can't see where a win comes from.

[One Day Soon]

Would be stunned if that was the case.

If we were to get beat on Saturday though then St Mirren could potentially be getting into must win territory.


Our relative budget suggests we should be competing for 3rd but more often than not finishing 5th. Instead we look far more like we are competing for 5th with a strong possibility of finishing bottom 6. If we lose our next two, particularly with the eye bleeding style we are playing and little sign of improvement, I would expect any serious club leadership to be at the very least actively considering alternatives.

On the other hand, the very last people I would want to have involved in that consideration process are the current club leadership...

Another slightly troubling thought. I don't know exactly what the nature of the prospective Foley deal is but very much hope there is no danger of it potentially falling apart on the back of Foley's perception of those currently running the club and their ability to do so.

[Centre Hawf]

why would we sack Kensell or Montgomery ?

Look at last night we did not exactly sell out against the Rangers, think too many fans have caused emough chaos for our club with constantly putting it down or slating the managers, we need to support the club and the players

Do you not think we didn't sell out because we have a manager playing some of the worst football in half a decade, picked by a group of people who have somehow picked 2, going on 3, of the worst managerial appointments in about 15 years?

Find it absurd you have pointed fingers back at the fans in this somehow.

[WhileTheChief..]

A sobering analysis. When you consider how brief his managerial career so far has actually been, was he really much better prepared for the Hibs job than Maloney was?

Nope. To this day I've still no idea how NMs even came up in the first place.

This is an interesting thread. Seems to be a general feeling that he's running out of time but there's not much frothing at the mouth about it.

It's not looking good, but I still think we're some distance away from the feelings around ER when LJ was here.

[richard_pitts]

I agree that we need a better defence and keeper, but last night the defence played no part in our defeat, we were well beat before the 3rd goal went in.

That midfield is sheite, we can go on and on about Newell being the best midfielder we have, or how Jair has turned round his carreer and how Levitt can see a pass, but in the real world they are pish, and that bloody midfield has been awful for more years than i care to remember.

EVERYONE can see it, but we seem to never be able to fix it, we continue to bring players in at some expense too, that are worse than we had.

:confused:

We are way too pedestrian in moving the ball forward, right through the team.

[GreenGray]

Nope. To this day I've still no idea how NMs even came up in the first place.

This is an interesting thread. Seems to be a general feeling that he's running out of time but there's not much frothing at the mouth about it.

It's not looking good, but I still think we're some distance away from the feelings around ER when LJ was here.

A lot of the anger towards Johnson was due to the fact he was a dick. Once performances fell off a cliff it was never going to last long.

Montgomery seems a nice enough guy, but unless he can show some sort of improvement I am worried he won't last long.

[Northernhibee]

What’s to say he isn’t doing that ? He’s far from perfect and he definitely needs to be more professional at times, but it’s not as if he appointed the managers on his own so why is he being held accountable ? He also recognised recruitment wasn’t working and pushed for a DoF.

Maloney was a big gamble, but Ron and the rest of the board were all taken in by Johnson’s bs (not the only board he’s managed that with though) and as flash said it’s not as if Monty has failed. If he goes on to fail then B McD will be culpable to some extent.

If someone coming in to defend him says that he needs to be more professional then that in itself sets major alarm bells.

A CEO needs to set the standard for professionalism and working culture at all times.

[VoltaireHibs]

Nope. To this day I've still no idea how NMs even came up in the first place.

This is an interesting thread. Seems to be a general feeling that he's running out of time but there's not much frothing at the mouth about it.

It's not looking good, but I still think we're some distance away from the feelings around ER when LJ was here.


A sore one against Killie will change the mood music pretty sharpish I think. Hopefully won't come to that but it's not hard to see them doing a number on us right now.

Maybe the new boys will all play and we'll be outstanding, I live in hope!

[easty]

why would we sack Kensell or Montgomery ?

Look at last night we did not exactly sell out against the Rangers, think too many fans have caused emough chaos for our club with constantly putting it down or slating the managers, we need to support the club and the players

Your argument for not changing management is that we didn’t sell all the tickets last night?

I cannae work out the logic in that at all.

[WhileTheChief..]

At least under Petrie it was done on the cheap


:top marks:greengrin

If the Black Knights are serious about improving us, it wouldn't surprise me to see BK moved on and them having a say on his replacement. Same with NM as it goes.

[wookie70]

why would we sack Kensell or Montgomery ?

Look at last night we did not exactly sell out against the Rangers, think too many fans have caused emough chaos for our club with constantly putting it down or slating the managers, we need to support the club and the players

It was only 1500 seats short of a sell out. You don't have to go back long before that crowd would have been seen as a massive success. Fans react to what they are seeing. It costs a fortune to watch Hibs on a regular basis and those you watch and the managers and directors are paid to put on that show. If they are failing in an obvious way then there will always be grumblings. At the moment from what I can see the grumblings are wanting Monty to be more pragmatic and change style so we can get more points. They are actually wanting the manager to have time to create what he wants to ultimately wants to build. Pretty much everyone can see he won't have the time unless he starts to look at our set up differently. It simply isn't working and experienced managers who hold on to their job for a number of years would immediately start to play in a way that makes us harder to score against so we start picking up points. Montgomery has us set up so the opposition has acres of space to play their passes between us combined with a high risk tiny reward pass it about the box strategy. Last night we got exactly what we deserved affording The Rangers two goals where the scorer had massive amounts of space and gifting another with fannying around the back. The fans won't get our Manager sacked Monty will do it all by himself if he doesn't make us harder to beat and start buying players we need to help in that aim. So frustrating as we have seen exactly teh same movie with Maloney and know that it was a short film with a disappointing end. Unless the plot changes quickly this will just be a similarly disappointing sequel.

[jeffers]

If someone coming in to defend him says that he needs to be more professional then that in itself sets major alarm bells.

A CEO needs to set the standard for professionalism and working culture at all times.

I don’t disagree. Where I do disagree is the chat that he should take responsibility for the failure of the last two managers and should go if Monty also fails when the decision to appoint them was not his alone. There are others equally culpable.

In all my years as a Hibs fan it’s probably accurate to say the majority of managers we’ve appointed have been failures. At our level there is no such thing as a guaranteed success.

[GreenCastle]

I agree that we need a better defence and keeper, but last night the defence played no part in our defeat, we were well beat before the 3rd goal went in.

That midfield is sheite, we can go on and on about Newell being the best midfielder we have, or how Jair has turned round his carreer and how Levitt can see a pass, but in the real world they are pish, and that bloody midfield has been awful for more years than i care to remember.

EVERYONE can see it, but we seem to never be able to fix it, we continue to bring players in at some expense too, that are worse than we had.

:confused:

The team lost 3 goals - the way we defend means we concede goals as so much space centrally - often spare player if Levitt or Newall get dragged out.

It's so frustrating to watch as a CDM would instantly make us better - Jeggo isn't that player by the way.

We seem to be doing everything back to front - signing attacking players before having a solid base / back line / central midfield.

Right back area...playing 16, 19 and 23 year olds - no wonder we lose goals. Around 50 top level games between them as experience.

Left back - playing an aging Stevenson for 12 games this season.

Centre backs have been average at best.

Keeper - I've lost count how many errors he's made now but we are basically conceding 1 goal a game on average.

Put it all together and it's the perfect storm of us but easy to play against - easy to score against and easy to take points off us.

[JimBHibees]

I suspect he will be gone after Saturday.

That would be nonsensical

[Unseen work]

Another thing he said that was odd after the game was none of the goals came from the shape or playing a 442.

Did he miss the first goal where Lundstram had the freedom of Easter road to play a pass to Ridvan who then scored.

If we had an extra body in there Lundstram doesn’t have that time and space

[Numptie]

We don't have the players for the high press. Jair, Youan, Levitt and Boyle are not suited for the press up the park, as they can't then get back to defend - or pick up a runner. Once the press is broken the team must re-form as a defensive unit - just doesn't happen and we are left with space behind us.

[jakeshibs]

Do you not think we didn't sell out because we have a manager playing some of the worst football in half a decade, picked by a group of people who have somehow picked 2, going on 3, of the worst managerial appointments in about 15 years?

Find it absurd you have pointed fingers back at the fans in this somehow.

As fans we want this and that, we want success etc and that comes from supporting the team in the park in numbers, we want better quality, we need to attend to give the club the money to buy better players, or is it just the tooth fairies responsibility to fund our dreams

[jeffers]

As fans we want this and that, we want success etc and that comes from supporting the team in the park in numbers, we want better quality, we need to attend to give the club the money to buy better players, or is it just the tooth fairies responsibility to fund our dreams

We’ve spent a fortune in our terms recently, it’s who we’ve spent it on that’s been the problem.

[Since452]

Nope. To this day I've still no idea how NMs even came up in the first place.

This is an interesting thread. Seems to be a general feeling that he's running out of time but there's not much frothing at the mouth about it.

It's not looking good, but I still think we're some distance away from the feelings around ER when LJ was here.

Apathy. And that says everything about how we've been run on the football side of things for years now. The enthusiasm is quickly being sucked out of the fanbase. LJ to NM was just out of the frying pan in to the fire.

[jakeshibs]

It was only 1500 seats short of a sell out. You don't have to go back long before that crowd would have been seen as a massive success. Fans react to what they are seeing. It costs a fortune to watch Hibs on a regular basis and those you watch and the managers and directors are paid to put on that show. If they are failing in an obvious way then there will always be grumblings. At the moment from what I can see the grumblings are wanting Monty to be more pragmatic and change style so we can get more points. They are actually wanting the manager to have time to create what he wants to ultimately wants to build. Pretty much everyone can see he won't have the time unless he starts to look at our set up differently. It simply isn't working and experienced managers who hold on to their job for a number of years would immediately start to play in a way that makes us harder to score against so we start picking up points. Montgomery has us set up so the opposition has acres of space to play their passes between us combined with a high risk tiny reward pass it about the box strategy. Last night we got exactly what we deserved affording The Rangers two goals where the scorer had massive amounts of space and gifting another with fannying around the back. The fans won't get our Manager sacked Monty will do it all by himself if he doesn't make us harder to beat and start buying players we need to help in that aim. So frustrating as we have seen exactly teh same movie with Maloney and know that it was a short film with a disappointing end. Unless the plot changes quickly this will just be a similarly disappointing sequel.

Sir Alex Ferguson i would class as a experienced manager pretty much played 4-4-2 for most of his career and seldomly changed this with his time in charge of both Aberdeen and Manchester United, and he was extremely successful domestically and in Europe. Shaun Maloney seems to be doing ok with Wigan. We did not lose the first goal to rangers due to 4-4-2 but more because the player Megwa left his man and gave him to much room to manoeuvre, we are not good enough to play it out from the back but hopefully the standard of player will improve with better recruitment

[VoltaireHibs]

The point of this whole Monty experiment is really to increase player value. A McInnes type might get you a player sold for 2-4 million, but we do that anyway. A young player doing well in a modern system, technical, one touch football etc will go for much more. That's why NM is here, to improve style and player value. It feels like a very ironic joke at the moment.

[VoltaireHibs]

Sir Alex Ferguson would i would class as a experienced manager pretty much played 4-4-2 for most of his career and seldomly changed this with his time in charge of both Aberdeen and Manchester United, and he was extremely successful domestically and in Europe. Shaun Maloney seems to be doing ok with Wigan. We did not lost the first goal to rangers due to 4-4-2 but more because the player Megwa left his man and gave him to much room to manoeuvre, we are not good enough to play it out from the back but hopefully the standard of player will improve with better recruitment


I just don't think it will ever work in this league. Too many teams sit in and play on the break, about 70% of them. It's an absolute hiding to nothing. I would be delighted to be proven wrong but I'm struggling to see an upside.

[GreenCastle]

Sir Alex Ferguson would i would class as a experienced manager pretty much played 4-4-2 for most of his career and seldomly changed this with his time in charge of both Aberdeen and Manchester United, and he was extremely successful domestically and in Europe. Shaun Maloney seems to be doing ok with Wigan. We did not lost the first goal to rangers due to 4-4-2 but more because the player Megwa left his man and gave him to much room to manoeuvre, we are not good enough to play it out from the back but hopefully the standard of player will improve with better recruitment

Stop the supply - just watched the goal again.

Levitt is nearly playing left back before the ball is played.

Lundstram has 4 seconds on the ball before anyone gets anywhere near close to him.

We aren’t good enough to play out the back but we continue to do so and gifting goals / chances.

Play to your strengths - Marshall isn’t exactly prime Valdes with his feet.

[Springbank]

Time to go Nick

You're not serious people

Forfar was the Warning
Rangers a disgrace
Today is sackable

442 is,1980s football

[Paulie Walnuts]

Time to go Nick

You're not serious people

Forfar was the Warning
Rangers a disgrace
Today is sackable

442 is,1980s football

It’s not 4-4-2, it’s fluid etc.

I think that’s what people claimed anyway :faf: it was never in doubt that this ridiculous formation and system wasn’t going to work. The most one dimensional manager I’ve ever seen.

[J-C]

Either way, if Monty goes than Kensell and Ian Gordon should be following him.

Ian Gordon owns the club, how can he be sacked?

[mcohibs]

Very obviously 4-2-3-1 first half.

[Skol]

Yeah, it was 4-2-3-1 clearly today. Maybe he shouldve stuck with 4-4-2 ;-)

[LaMotta]

Time to go Nick

You're not serious people

Forfar was the Warning
Rangers a disgrace
Today is sackable

442 is,1980s football

We haven't played a 4-4-2 for weeks.

[Nicho87]

We haven't played a 4-4-2 for weeks.

And it’s still pish.

Players not working for him

[B.H.F.C]

442 certainly wasn’t the issue today.

[B.H.F.C]

And it’s still pish.

Players not working for him

Their attitude stinks. Next guy will come in and they’ll talk about how good it is and run about for a few weeks. Then they’ll revert to type.

[Winston Ingram]

Definitely wasn’t 442 today. 4231, with Youan and Moalida rotating first have as the striker.

The rotation was utterly ****in pointless as usual.

[hfcok]

Yeh defo 4231, when midfield had the ball, there was no forward pass on.

[LaMotta]

Definitely wasn’t 442 today. 4231, with Youan and Moalida rotating first have as the striker.

The rotation was utterly ****in pointless as usual.

WTF was that constant rotation all about. Maolida swapped with Jair once and then I think swapped Maolida with Youan two or three times. How the **** is that helping things? Its utter chaos out there.

[mcohibs]

Definitely wasn’t 442 today. 4231, with Youan and Moalida rotating first have as the striker.

The rotation was utterly ****in pointless as usual.

Yep. Thought that was fairly obvious. Haven’t played 442 for some time.

[hfcok]

Get back to a 352, the personnel we have dictates that formation

[sean]

Formation becoming complete less of an issue week to week to me.

We simply dont earn the right to play. NO tackling, 1st ball, running, tracking back, bursting a gut. If you dont do that in Scotland you can forget it, time and time again we are being worked over by lesser players week in week out. Our home record is nothing short of a disgrace. Today was up there with some of the very very worst iv seen from hibs.

So many similar type players, scatter gun panic loans with no thought process behind them, its a total cluster ****.

Monty to blame for innept tactical choices and 'style' but because of numerous bad appointments things are now starting to run deeper.

We are a team that's just not effective enough for this league.

[B.H.F.C]

Formation becoming complete less of an issue week to week to me.

We simply dont earn the right to play. NO tackling, 1st ball, running, tracking back, bursting a gut. If you dont do that in Scotland you can forget it, time and time again we are being worked over by lesser players week in week out. Our home record is nothing short of a disgrace. Today was up there with some of the very very worst iv seen from hibs.

So many similar type players, scatter gun panic loans with no thought process behind them, its a total cluster ****.

Monty to blame for innept tactical choices and 'style' but because of numerous bad appointments things are now starting to run deeper.

We are a team that's just not effective enough for this league.

There is loads to blame Montgomery for but a complete lack of desire to compete from the players isn’t on him. There are some players in there that I’d happily never see again. They don’t give a ****.

[Trinity Hibee]

Formation becoming complete less of an issue week to week to me.

We simply dont earn the right to play. NO tackling, 1st ball, running, tracking back, bursting a gut. If you dont do that in Scotland you can forget it, time and time again we are being worked over by lesser players week in week out. Our home record is nothing short of a disgrace. Today was up there with some of the very very worst iv seen from hibs.

So many similar type players, scatter gun panic loans with no thought process behind them, its a total cluster ****.

Monty to blame for innept tactical choices and 'style' but because of numerous bad appointments things are now starting to run deeper.

We are a team that's just not effective enough for this league.

I agree. To be successful in Scotland isn’t rocket science and hearts have showed in the last few years strolling 3rd twice with average teams. We have this mythical idea that it needs to be pretty modern football.

Just get a hard working squad with a little flair up top and that is plenty.

[B.H.F.C]

I agree. To be successful in Scotland isn’t rocket science and hearts have showed in the last few years strolling 3rd twice with average teams. We have this mythical idea that it needs to be pretty modern football.

Just get a hard working squad with a little flair up top and that is plenty.

We are snobby. We think things need to be done a certain way. You need the spine of a team and then you can let certain players thrive. Neglect the spine and try to fill it with footballers, you’re ****ed.

[sean]

I agree. To be successful in Scotland isn’t rocket science and hearts have showed in the last few years strolling 3rd twice with average teams. We have this mythical idea that it needs to be pretty modern football.

Just get a hard working squad with a little flair up top and that is plenty.

Absolutely, we try and pretend we are better than other teams and clubs, always doing differently to become a complete laughing stock.

Experiment once but not 2/3 times it’s stupid.

Craig levein would get a tune out of this group more than monty.

Sign a manager who knows the league, sign players who suit the league, we might actually have some success.

Too many project players with little substance.

I would still take Lewis and Paul in this Hibs 11 than most of the others.

[sean]

We are snobby. We think things need to be done a certain way. You need the spine of a team and then you can let certain players thrive. Neglect the spine and try to fill it with footballers, you’re ****ed.

Agreed.

I had a wee example today we let Paul mcginn go, a decent steady Eddie SPFL player to replace him with Rocky and random folk on loan. It’s utter nonsense zz

We’ve got rid of dodge,who’s worth a few goals a season and is SPFL quality to replace him with a kid from Sunderland.

[Nicho87]

Derek Mcinnes time

Old school, experienced of the league

Had enough of the projects

Johnson, Maloney, Monty

All massive flops, all one thing in common no experience managing in spfl

Simply put

[Torto7]

Hibs can play any system they like but it doesn't matter because they can't defend crosses. I'm a happy clapper usually and fairly patient but today tests that.

[sean]

There is loads to blame Montgomery for but a complete lack of desire to compete from the players isn’t on him. There are some players in there that I’d happily never see again. They don’t give a ****.

One thing that’s dangerous with loans is there is no pressure on them if we are dog fight for second bottom, they go back to there parent clubs not giving a flying ****.