Bin strikes

[Paul1642]

Surely no one seriously read that post as meaning those with children should be taxed less than those without?

Maybe I'm the one misreading it but I took it to mean that any tax hike for higher earners should sit at some point above the current £43K lower limit for the 41% bracket. The reasoning being that those at the lower end of the scale hardly fall into the category of the super rich and that is arguably even more true of those with dependents rather than those only feeding and clothing 1 or 2 people rather 3, 4 or 5. I can't see any suggestion that the upper tax brackets should be split based on choosing to reproduce or otherwise.

You have got my point exactly. In fairness I think the reply’s were light hearted :).

My point was of course that someone earning not much over 43k is far from rich at the moment, especially if they have other factors such as children, student loan ect.

In a household with two kids and only one parent in employment 43k would be a decent enough wage to get by but far from living a lavish lifestyle.

That persons colleague who earns a slightly lower wage but lives alone will be doing pretty nicely for themselves and would more likely fall into the “rich” category.

No suggestion that people should be taxed differently based on dependents. Just a pointer to those saying “tax the rich”, that the rich need to be correctly identified to avoid hurting those who can’t afford it.

I currently rely on overtime to have a bit spare cash for enjoyment rather than essentials but the moment that overtime was entering the 41% tax catagory it would hardly feel worth it too me. Fortunately that’s not going to happen any time soon 😂

How about paying no tax on the first 20k, 20% up to 50k, 40% up to 70k then 60% onwards. That would make a fortune in taxes whilst helping the majority a lot.

[Pretty Boy]

Sorry but that's exactly how I read it. Maybe I'm wrong, wouldn't be the first time. He was talking about making sure we carefully define "rich" and then he said that being childless would be an exception to those people he deemed not "rich"?

I simply took that to mean that someone on £50K per year who is childless, generally speaking, has more disposable income than someone who has children. That may therefore put them in a position whereby a tax rise in that bracket would be more affordable to them because they are in the most basic terms 'richer'. I didn't at any point see that expanded upon to say that should be justification for a tax rise for said hypothetical person. If anything I read it in completely the opposite way and took it to suggest that in real terms nobody in that bracket is truly rich so any tax rise should start at an unspecified point above said bracket.

[grunt]

My point was of course that someone earning not much over 43k is far from rich at the moment, especially if they have other factors such as children, student loan ect.
Ah. Sorry.

[grunt]

If anything I read it in completely the opposite way and took it to suggest that in real terms nobody in that bracket is truly rich so any tax rise should start at an unspecified point above said bracket.
I agree. £50k is by no means "rich". But I also think that the use of the term "rich" is unhelpful. Those who earn more, even though they may not be anywhere near "rich", should contribute more to society by paying more tax.

Blimey I'm turning into a socialist!

[hibsbollah]

Better than not believing facts when you are proven wrong. You believe Bucha happened yet or do you still reckon probably not? Because that would be going against a mountain of facts

Don't go off topic please. You posted something incorrect again. Nurses CAN strike. Just like Energy IS a devolved matter, which you were factually incorrect about yesterday. You need to check the veracity of your posts before you post them or you are going to get a reputation as someone who cant be trusted as a reliable source, as well as someone who misrepresents other posters views. Which i'm sure you wouldn't want.

[Just Alf]

A company that usually was hired to just collect flyers kerr cleaning, was told to increase their numbers and clean litter too. Scab workforce to undermine the striking workers. Which side are you on boysWhere did you see that? I spoke to one guy and he felt a bit embarrassed as they'd been told to stick to their remit.


Edit: embarrassed while out pick up the flyers and leaving the mounds of other litter.

[Stairway 2 7]

Don't go off topic please. You posted something incorrect again. Nurses CAN strike. Just like Energy IS a devolved matter, which you were factually incorrect about yesterday. You need to check the veracity of your posts before you post them or you are going to get a reputation as someone who cant be trusted as a reliable source, as well as someone who misrepresents other posters views. Which i'm sure you wouldn't want.

Nurses can strike but have to follow the nurses code which says they can't endanger the public. Which means pretty much most front line can't fully strike.

I never once said energy is devolved I said were leasing away our renewables for a pittance. Then someoneelse said we can't fully profit because energy isn't devolved. We can decide who gets new renewable contracts and that can be a state owned company. We can also set the terms of any new deal hence we had a more favorable deal than England. Here's the article I liked from commonweal on how to nationalise scotwind

https://commonweal.scot/how-to-nationalise-scotwind/

[Ozyhibby]

Nurses can strike but have to follow the nurses code which says they can't endanger the public. Which means pretty much most front line can't fully strike.

I never once said energy is devolved I said were leasing away our renewables for a pittance. Then someoneelse said we can't fully profit because energy isn't devolved. We can decide who gets new renewable contracts and that can be a state owned company. We can also set the terms of any new deal hence we had a more favorable deal than England. Here's the article I liked from commonweal on how to nationalise scotwind

https://commonweal.scot/how-to-nationalise-scotwind/

Given there is no money to pay the bin men right now, I doubt there is spare cash to set up a nationalised energy company. That is the sort of thing you need long term borrowing for. And the SG can’t do that.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Where did you see that? I spoke to one guy and he felt a bit embarrassed as they'd been told to stick to their remit.


Edit: embarrassed while out pick up the flyers and leaving the mounds of other litter.

Quotes from kerr cleaning and a member of staff

https://www.conter.scot/2022/8/19/exclusive-cleaners-hired-to-undermine-strikers-during-edinburgh-festival/

[Stairway 2 7]

Given there is no money to pay the bin men right now, I doubt there is spare cash to set up a nationalised energy company. That is the sort of thing you need long term borrowing for. And the SG can’t do that.


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Was it in the manifesto and also why talk it up if it was unfeasible.

[grunt]

Quotes from kerr cleaning and a member of staff

https://www.conter.scot/2022/8/19/exclusive-cleaners-hired-to-undermine-strikers-during-edinburgh-festival/
Conter.

AGAINST THE SCOTTISH ESTABLISHMENTYou can certainly pick them.

[Ozyhibby]

Was it in the manifesto and also why talk it up if it was unfeasible.

It was a crap idea. Not what is needed. It was a retail energy company they were talking about. I’m glad it was shelved.
It’s generating energy the govt should get control of. Especially renewables. And make them so cheap that gas and oil can’t compete.


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[Bridge hibs]

Nurses can strike but have to follow the nurses code which says they can't endanger the public. Which means pretty much most front line can't fully strike.

I never once said energy is devolved I said were leasing away our renewables for a pittance. Then someoneelse said we can't fully profit because energy isn't devolved. We can decide who gets new renewable contracts and that can be a state owned company. We can also set the terms of any new deal hence we had a more favorable deal than England. Here's the article I liked from commonweal on how to nationalise scotwind

https://commonweal.scot/how-to-nationalise-scotwind/A lot of focus seems to be on Nurses here, not by you but in general terms. Nurses care for and manage the patients but for every hospital it needs to flow, thats from Porters to Radiographers, Doctors, Domestics, Ward Clerks, Physio, Occupational Therapists, the list is endless, any of those under Unison, RCN or whatever will be able to participate in industrial action. I support them all but I feel for those already waiting a long time for procedures etc, possible action could set these back years

[CropleyWasGod]

For those who might be interested.

https://twitter.com/chortle/status/1561721513123905538?t=H7E-8sljdbn4IGRsIPGA6w&s=19

[Stairway 2 7]

It was a crap idea. Not what is needed. It was a retail energy company they were talking about. I’m glad it was shelved.
It’s generating energy the govt should get control of. Especially renewables. And make them so cheap that gas and oil can’t compete.


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I agree whilst there is profits we need to get the profits from renewables rather than give them to others. We'll eventually be 100% renewable im sure and in a very good position

[Ozyhibby]

I agree whilst there is profits we need to get the profits from renewables rather than give them to others. We'll eventually be 100% renewable im sure and in a very good position

Yip, I wouldn’t bother nationalising oil and gas now. We just need to ramp up renewables massively.


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[JeMeSouviens]

You have got my point exactly. In fairness I think the reply’s were light hearted :).

My point was of course that someone earning not much over 43k is far from rich at the moment, especially if they have other factors such as children, student loan ect.

In a household with two kids and only one parent in employment 43k would be a decent enough wage to get by but far from living a lavish lifestyle.

That persons colleague who earns a slightly lower wage but lives alone will be doing pretty nicely for themselves and would more likely fall into the “rich” category.

No suggestion that people should be taxed differently based on dependents. Just a pointer to those saying “tax the rich”, that the rich need to be correctly identified to avoid hurting those who can’t afford it.

I currently rely on overtime to have a bit spare cash for enjoyment rather than essentials but the moment that overtime was entering the 41% tax catagory it would hardly feel worth it too me. Fortunately that’s not going to happen any time soon 😂

How about paying no tax on the first 20k, 20% up to 50k, 40% up to 70k then 60% onwards. That would make a fortune in taxes whilst helping the majority a lot.

It really wouldn't make a fortune. You've wiped out a significant chunk at the lower and middle and there are, relatively speaking, few taxpayers at the high end in Scotland, certainly not enough earning over 70k to make up that kind of shortfall.

[Paul1642]

It really wouldn't make a fortune. You've wiped out a significant chunk at the lower and middle and there are, relatively speaking, few taxpayers at the high end in Scotland, certainly not enough earning over 70k to make up that kind of shortfall.

I really don’t have any figures to even start working it out but on a fag packet, the losses on moving the lower band up to 20k would only be around £1500 per tax payer.

20% up to 50k would only cost a further £1300 per year per tax payer currently earning 50k plus.


The 50k to 70k bracket would see no change.

One person earning a million per year would pay an additional 185k a year. Having worked that out it probably doesn’t add up but it was a very half assed set of numbers that could be made to work.

[Just Alf]

Quotes from kerr cleaning and a member of staff

https://www.conter.scot/2022/8/19/exclusive-cleaners-hired-to-undermine-strikers-during-edinburgh-festival/OK, get you what you mean... I'm talking about the contractor that was put in place by the festival organisers to pick up flyers.
Its done every year. ( paid for by the festival organisers to help reduce the burden on the council (and its taxpayers!))

[grunt]

There should be a daily update from the Council on progress towards resolving this dispute.

[Moulin Yarns]

What so they aren't going to take responsibility for the mess that has been created by slashing Council budgets for over a decade. They councils are in an unenviable position now where they have to try and find it.

The government could end this tomorrow if they give COSLA more money. The money will have to come from cuts elsewhere as workers pay should take precedent. The councils can recoup some now that at last they can increase council tax. The government can recoup it by increasing the highest tax band

Who does the government take the money from to give to the councils?

[Stairway 2 7]

Unite CEC Branch
@UniteCECbranch
Misinformation on #edinburghbinstrikes today is rife.

Strike is a national dispute—one council can’t stop it. 14 more councils tomorrow.

Local gov funding has been slashed for a decade.

Idea that 5% definitely would have stopped this is a fantasy. An insulting one at that

[danhibees1875]

I really don’t have any figures to even start working it out but on a fag packet, the losses on moving the lower band up to 20k would only be around £1500 per tax payer.

20% up to 50k would only cost a further £1300 per year per tax payer currently earning 50k plus.


The 50k to 70k bracket would see no change.

One person earning a million per year would pay an additional 185k a year. Having worked that out it probably doesn’t add up but it was a very half assed set of numbers that could be made to work.

Would people up to £70k not get a sizeable relief there too? They'd be paying less at all bands on the way up.

They'd pay £14k under your proposal I think, and currently pay £17.2k (£15.4k in rUK).

The problem comes with a marginal rate of tax as high as 60% and the lengths people would go to avoid that. I'm sure there's a name behind the theory/graph but there's some sort of economic theory that shows that takings decrease as the overall tax burden goes up.

[Ozyhibby]

Would people up to £70k not get a sizeable relief there too? They'd be paying less at all bands on the way up.

They'd pay £14k under your proposal I think, and currently pay £17.2k (£15.4k in rUK).

The problem comes with a marginal rate of tax as high as 60% and the lengths people would go to avoid that. I'm sure there's a name behind the theory/graph but there's some sort of economic theory that shows that takings decrease as the overall tax burden goes up.

Laffer curve? I do think there is a limit to how much you can tax income. It’s wealth that you need to be creative in taxing.


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[Jack]

Laffer curve? I do think there is a limit to how much you can tax income. It’s wealth that you need to be creative in taxing.


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If the government showed as much passion in collecting the tax that's due and/or avoided while also closing loopholes as they do demonising folk for benefit fraud, things for the majority of us might not seem so bad. And then there's the taxation on multinational companies could do with being looked at with a view to a fairer contribution to the countries they operate in.

[Stairway 2 7]

Just to further prove this isn’t about Edinburgh Council. School workers will join the bin men for 3 days strike

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-62647415?at_custom4=874F1D6E-22D7-11ED-89DD-03AB96E8478F&at_custom2=facebook_page&at_custom1=%5Bpost+type%5D&at_medium=custom7&at_custom3=BBC+Scotland+News&at_campaign=64

School and nursery staff in nine Scottish council areas are to go on strike for three days next month in a row over pay, it has been confirmed.

Unison and the GMB said their members will strike on 6, 7 and 8 September after talks with council body Cosla failed to reach an agreement.

School and early years staff will join waste and recycling workers who have already started strike action.

Unison said a total of 13,000 members would be involved.

It will see schools, early years centres and nurseries disrupted in Aberdeenshire, Clackmannanshire, East Renfrewshire, Glasgow City, Inverclyde, Orkney, North Lanarkshire, South Lanarkshire and Stirling

[grunt]

School and nursery staff in nine Scottish council areas are to go on strike for three days next month in a row over pay, it has been confirmed.

Unison and the GMB said their members will strike on 6, 7 and 8 September after talks with council body Cosla failed to reach an agreement.

I had rather hoped the Edinburgh bin strike would have been over before 6 September :confused:

[Stairway 2 7]

I had rather hoped the Edinburgh bin strike would have been over before 6 September :confused:

There is a series of strikes against COSLAs offers. Edinburgh bin men started last week, council bin men round Scotland will strike tomorrow and now these teachers and support workers

[Iain G]

There is a series of strikes against COSLAs offers. Edinburgh bin men started last week, council bin men round Scotland will strike tomorrow and now these teachers and support workers

So how much do they want?

[He's here!]

Entitlement levels here are off the scale in the current climate. Two pay offers declined, Scottish govt (to their credit) throws in a £140m sweetener to ensure the 5% demands are met...and rejected. Selfish *****rs need to get back to work.

[hibsbollah]

There should be a daily update from the Council on progress towards resolving this dispute.

I can do one.

We’re definitely moving from it being a visual problem to a smell and hygiene one. Coming home through town on the bus and every time the door opens to let in passengers you get a waft of the bins next to the stop. Stinking.

[weecounty hibby]

Entitlement levels here are off the scale in the current climate. Two pay offers declined, Scottish govt (to their credit) throws in a £140m sweetener to ensure the 5% demands are met...and rejected. Selfish *****rs need to get back to work.
Pay them properly then. Tories clapping on Thursday nights for front line workers and then not paying them properly. We in this country are being ****ing conned and it's led by the msm. The likes if the Mail, Express, Times, Sun, Telegraph and broadcast media as well BBC included are making you believe that 20 to 25k is a good wage. Is it **** when the Tories have wasted literally billions by giving it to their chums (see list of msm). And I speak as someone who is well paid and comfortably off. You probably also believe that 1.70 per litre of petrol is now cheap, thatvsewage on the beaches is ok and that Brexit has nothing to do with this ****show. I wouldn't particularly like to be a bin man and certainly not when their pay will be fairly low and fuel bills look likely to go above 5k per year. And I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want to either. But aye, you're right, selfish.

[Betty Boop]

Entitlement levels here are off the scale in the current climate. Two pay offers declined, Scottish govt (to their credit) throws in a £140m sweetener to ensure the 5% demands are met...and rejected. Selfish *****rs need to get back to work.

**** off you ****** !!!!!

[silverhibee]

Passed the zoo this afternoon and the front was looking pretty messy with buckets overflowing, just went past about 20 minutes ago and all looking nice and clean with buckets looking like they have been emptied, don’t know if zoo or holiday in staff would do some cleanup outside.

[weecounty hibby]

**** off you ****** !!!!!
Hard to disagree with that!!

[Iain G]

Passed the zoo this afternoon and the front was looking pretty messy with buckets overflowing, just went past about 20 minutes ago and all looking nice and clean with buckets looking like they have been emptied, don’t know if zoo or holiday in staff would do some cleanup outside.

Bunch of crabs! Boooo! 🤣

[Sylar]

I understand the strikes impacting collections, but why on Earth did anyone think it was a good idea to close all waste centres too? There needs to be a balance between public health, preventing widespread fly-tipping, while being conscious of the ongoing strikes.

Seems like every sector is turning to strike action right now. Honestly at the point of considering looking for opportunities elsewhere.

[Jack]

**** off you ****** !!!!!

Thats about the first time I've agreed with you.

[Smartie]

I understand the strikes impacting collections, but why on Earth did anyone think it was a good idea to close all waste centres too? There needs to be a balance between public health, preventing widespread fly-tipping, while being conscious of the ongoing strikes.

Seems like every sector is turning to strike action right now. Honestly at the point of considering looking for opportunities elsewhere.

It’s tempting for sure, but I’m not sure exactly where the grass is any greener right now.

[Paul1642]

**** off you ****** !!!!!

Here here. What a mental opinion. Self entitled is the already rich getting richer at the expense of others. Some of society’s lowest paid workers requesting a moderate pay rise is far from it.

[Pretty Boy]

Entitlement levels here are off the scale in the current climate. Two pay offers declined, Scottish govt (to their credit) throws in a £140m sweetener to ensure the 5% demands are met...and rejected. Selfish *****rs need to get back to work.

If it's such a sweet deal why don't you go out and collect rubbish for £21k a year?

I'm not too proud to do any type of work but I take my hat off to anyone doing that job and fully support their demands for more money. There's **** all noble about going out to work for less than you are worth.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Entitlement levels here are off the scale in the current climate. Two pay offers declined, Scottish govt (to their credit) throws in a £140m sweetener to ensure the 5% demands are met...and rejected. Selfish *****rs need to get back to work.


Selfish?
Have a word.

[Sylar]

If it's such a sweet deal why don't you go out and collect rubbish for £21k a year?

I'm not too proud to do any type of work but I take my hat off to anyone doing that job and fully support their demands for more money. There's **** all noble about going out to work for less than you are worth.

I suspect many other sectors will be following suit given the runaway cost of living and wages not keeping pace. We were 'awarded' a 3% pay rise in my sector - our unions are currently balloting members about possible strike action, just in time for students starting the first year of in-person lectures since pre-Covid 19. That sucks for the students, but something has to give!

[lapsedhibee]

Selfish?
Have a word.

Whole dictionary needed there.

[hibsbollah]

Entitlement levels here are off the scale in the current climate. Two pay offers declined, Scottish govt (to their credit) throws in a £140m sweetener to ensure the 5% demands are met...and rejected. Selfish *****rs need to get back to work.

That’s a shocker, even for you.

[Stairway 2 7]

Whole dictionary needed there.

roger mellies profanisaurus

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62643934?xtor=AL-72-%5Bpartner%5D-%5Bbbc.news.twitter%5D-%5Bheadline%5D-%5Bnews%5D-%5Bbizdev%5D-%5Bisapi%5D&at_custom1=%5Bpost+type%5D&at_campaign=64&at_custom4=6549CE82-22C1-11ED-99C0-AEB84744363C&at_custom2=twitter&at_medium=custom7&at_custom3=%40BBCNews

Hopefully everyone either has a strong union or a good fair company, because its going to be grim

[ronaldo7]

These piecemeal strikes are just the starters. General strikes on the way. Time for the TUC to grow some.

[Iain G]

These piecemeal strikes are just the starters. General strikes on the way. Time for the TUC to grow some.

Which will kill the UK, we just can't go there after the last 2.5 years of hell for so many people.

The Unions won't push for it, they know there is nowhere to go from there, it's the Armageddon option...

[ronaldo7]

Which will kill the UK, we just can't go there after the last 2.5 years of hell for so many people.

The Unions won't push for it, they know there is nowhere to go from there, it's the Armageddon option...

The UK is dead. People being asked to fork out thousands of pounds just to stay warm, whilst the Tories party on in Europe.

It's coming to the boil now.

[ronaldo7]

They made money for a 5% increase last Friday when the debate has been going for months. Workers from all over Scotland will be striking tomorrow, even in snp run councils as it wasn't enough

The 5% was proposed on August 12th, by the SNP group on cosla.

We've moved past that now though.

[Ozyhibby]

These piecemeal strikes are just the starters. General strikes on the way. Time for the TUC to grow some.

https://twitter.com/the_tuc/status/1562190682424758273?s=21&t=3CshEKM1p9eDf84IWeEZfg


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/the_tuc/status/1562190682424758273?s=21&t=3CshEKM1p9eDf84IWeEZfg


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Living wage foundation is announcing its rise on the 22nd of September. £9.90 needs to rise a lot imo

[Stairway 2 7]

Not sure who the snp mps who have been tweeting blame to the Labour Council are going to blame when 18 other councils join today.

Where is Sturgeon going when Edinburgh looks like a tip. She's flying to Copenhagen to open a £600,000 Scottish embassy near to the British one

[Ozyhibby]

Not sure who the snp mps who have been tweeting blame to the Labour Council are going to blame when 18 other councils join today.

Where is Sturgeon going when Edinburgh looks like a tip. She's flying to Copenhagen to open a £600,000 Scottish embassy near to the British one

The SG is not involved with negotiations.


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[Stairway 2 7]

The SG is not involved with negotiations.


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It isn't directly but should be involved obviously. Will the snp mps tweet blame to the snp run councils today?

[Ozyhibby]

It isn't directly but should be involved obviously. Will the snp mps tweet blame to the snp run councils today?

I think all MP’s and MSP’s are going to spend the day tweeting about GERS.


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[Stairway 2 7]

I think all MP’s and MSP’s are going to spend the day tweeting about GERS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Convenient now it can't all be blamed on Edinburgh Council

The only honest gers tweet would be, yes we are better off financially in the uk but I believe we have the potential to be better off alone

[Eaststand]

Pay them properly then. Tories clapping on Thursday nights for front line workers and then not paying them properly. We in this country are being ****ing conned and it's led by the msm. The likes if the Mail, Express, Times, Sun, Telegraph and broadcast media as well BBC included are making you believe that 20 to 25k is a good wage. Is it **** when the Tories have wasted literally billions by giving it to their chums (see list of msm). And I speak as someone who is well paid and comfortably off. You probably also believe that 1.70 per litre of petrol is now cheap, thatvsewage on the beaches is ok and that Brexit has nothing to do with this ****show. I wouldn't particularly like to be a bin man and certainly not when their pay will be fairly low and fuel bills look likely to go above 5k per year. And I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want to either. But aye, you're right, selfish.

Well said bud 👍

GGTTH

[Jack]

Bins being set on fire during the night in Leith.

There's been regular bin fires in the past down here TBF but not for a while.

[Stairway 2 7]

Bins being set on fire during the night in Leith.

There's been regular bin fires in the past down here TBF but not for a while.

Won't be able to do it today thankfully, pishing down from the early morning

[Pretty Boy]

For anyone who doesn't want to receive post from Royal Mail on the days that posties are striking:

https://www.cwu.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/This-house-does-not-want-deliveries-on.pdf

[Stairway 2 7]

https://mobile.twitter.com/UniteScotland/status/1562365589997355008

@UniteScotland
Pictures have been sent in this morning of our
@unitetheunion
members on the picket lines in Aberdeen and Blantyre.

The workers will remain united and continue with strike action until they get the fair pay rise that they deserve.

Please show them your support and solidarity

[Iain G]

https://mobile.twitter.com/UniteScotland/status/1562365589997355008

@UniteScotland
Pictures have been sent in this morning of our
@unitetheunion
members on the picket lines in Aberdeen and Blantyre.

The workers will remain united and continue with strike action until they get the fair pay rise that they deserve.

Please show them your support and solidarity

What do they think they deserve as a pay rise? 50%, 100%? :confused:

[Sylar]

What do they think they deserve as a pay rise? 50%, 100%? :confused:

Probably something close to the current rate of inflation? Not a ludicrous ask. A 10% pay rise equates to about £2000-2500 (I think someone yesterday suggested the average salary is c.£21k) - hardly unreasonable given how little distance that salary will go in the current climate.

[Alex Trager]

What do they think they deserve as a pay rise? 50%, 100%? :confused:

A few percent above inflation, so whatever inflation is with an additional 2%. Which is a meagre pay rise in reality but it is a pay rise.

Surely your amounts of 50 and 100% are facetious, we are talking about workers here.

Not bosses.

[weecounty hibby]

Probably something close to the current rate of inflation? Not a ludicrous ask. A 10% pay rise equates to about £2000-2500 (I think someone yesterday suggested the average salary is c.£21k) - hardly unreasonable given how little distance that salary will go in the current climate.
I am in now way disputing that people need decent pay but where does that stop? What if everyone gets 10% in the public sector. Where does that money come from? The govt needs to start taxing the highest earners and by that I mean million and billionaires and the utilities companies as well. Without this taxation then it is almost impossible to pay decent wages. We are being ****ed over big time by the rich and big industry. We can feed and help the poorest but only if we curtail the greed of the richest

[Alex Trager]

I am in now way disputing that people need decent pay but where does that stop? What if everyone gets 10% in the public sector. Where does that money come from? The govt needs to start taxing the highest earners and by that I mean million and billionaires and the utilities companies as well. Without this taxation then it is almost impossible to pay decent wages. We are being ****ed over big time by the rich and big industry. We can feed and help the poorest but only if we curtail the greed of the richest

You ask where does it stop, then answer how to solve it in your response.

It stops when inflation stops, I.E. never.

[Pretty Boy]

Probably something close to the current rate of inflation? Not a ludicrous ask. A 10% pay rise equates to about £2000-2500 (I think someone yesterday suggested the average salary is c.£21k) - hardly unreasonable given how little distance that salary will go in the current climate.

I read yesterday that based on the average salary of circa £21.6K the originally offered 3.5% pay rise equated to £63 a month and 5% is £90 a month. What's that in reality? Gas and electricity for 15 days. A week and a half worth of shopping for a family of 3 or 4. Hardly folk living it up on the public sector gravy train.

It shouldn't be a battle between public and private sector and Mr A Fronted Taxpayer. Expecting people to continually take pay deals that are real time cuts and well below the rate of inflation is madness. It's even less sustainable than pay rises that match or better inflation.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I read yesterday that based on the average salary of circa £21.6K the originally offered 3.5% pay rise equated to £63 a month and 5% is £90 a month. What's that in reality? Gas and electricity for 15 days. A week and a half worth of shopping for a family of 3 or 4. Hardly folk living it up on the public sector gravy train.

Public sector wages are abysmal and pay rises have been absolutely non existent for about 10 years.

I’m a public sector worker and I think I’ve had 1% absolute maximum for about 10 years now. Often the pot of 1% is also to cover people progressing through the pay scale, so if you’re at the top of the pay scale you’re probably getting about 0.6%.

I’ve probably had a real life paycut of about 25% in the last 10 years before this crisis started, never mind now. There is no public sector gravy train for 99.9% of public sector workers. Even in my government department, top of the chain for our department in the whole of Scotland earns £60k. She could earn a hell of a lot more doing a hell of a lot less and easier work elsewhere, much the same as all the folk like me lower down the chain.

When I got into the Civil Service I always remember people telling me it was a great place to get into. Nowadays I couldn’t warn against it enough.

[lapsedhibee]

A few percent above inflation, so whatever inflation is with an additional 2%. Which is a meagre pay rise in reality but it is a pay rise.

Don't think that it's a human right to have pay rises all the time. If the economy is in bad shape, for example because of a pandemic, falls in real pay are to be expected. If the economy is in bad shape because of Brexit, real pay could be expected to fall. In a decent society this would apply to everyone, but of course we're not in that.

[Ozyhibby]

Don't think that it's a human right to have pay rises all the time. If the economy is in bad shape, for example because of a pandemic, falls in real pay are to be expected. If the economy is in bad shape because of Brexit, real pay could be expected to fall. In a decent society this would apply to everyone, but of course we're not in that.

It’s only when people at the bottom ask for a pay rise that we hear calls for moderation from the govt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jack]

I am in now way disputing that people need decent pay but where does that stop? What if everyone gets 10% in the public sector. Where does that money come from? The govt needs to start taxing the highest earners and by that I mean million and billionaires and the utilities companies as well. Without this taxation then it is almost impossible to pay decent wages. We are being ****ed over big time by the rich and big industry. We can feed and help the poorest but only if we curtail the greed of the richest

Good post but don't stop at the utilities companies. There are many more out there making excessive profits.

[lapsedhibee]

It’s only when people at the bottom ask for a pay rise that we hear calls for moderation from the govt.


What the current UKGov say on almost anything can be safely ignored, but moderation in itself is not a bad thing. Keeping inflation to a moderate level is a particularly good thing. Not sensible to think that everyone, every year, should get a pay rise of inflation plus x%.

[Ozyhibby]

What the current UKGov say on almost anything can be safely ignored, but moderation in itself is not a bad thing. Keeping inflation to a moderate level is a particularly good thing. Not sensible to think that everyone, every year, should get a pay rise of inflation plus x%.

The problem is, the money to pay for this can only come from the UK govt. I’d love to be able to ignore them but we live on whatever money they give us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lapsedhibee]

The problem is, the money to pay for this can only come from the UK govt. I’d love to be able to ignore them but we live on whatever money they give us.


Won't matter what they're saying when we start storming the McDonalds up here. Their lies will be toast.

[Alex Trager]

Don't think that it's a human right to have pay rises all the time. If the economy is in bad shape, for example because of a pandemic, falls in real pay are to be expected. If the economy is in bad shape because of Brexit, real pay could be expected to fall. In a decent society this would apply to everyone, but of course we're not in that.

It’s not a human right, but so many human rights depend on money in our society.

And so many of the things that depend on money, are going up and up, and have been for years whilst people’s wages stagnate.

It was the bankers we bailed out and continues to do so until the pandemic.

Now it’s the pandemic and brexit we have to bail out.

In the meantime, UK billionaire wealth is up £55B. City banker bonuses are up 28%. FTSE 100 CEO salaries up 39%.

Whilst the govt asks those asking for a 12-15% increase to be restrained, they gave themselves a pay rise as well recently btw.

They also dished out billions to their pals during said pandemic for goods and services that either never existed, were substandard, or overpriced based on the usual streams used.

Felixestowe docks made £79M in the last year. Since 2017 they’ve paid shareholders £198M and are offering their workers a pay cut.

So I am just going to disagree with your point re being in normal times and a functioning society. They can always find their masses of profit and whopping bosses increases but if the workers ask for an inflation pay rise it’s get back to work, we don’t have the money for that!

[lapsedhibee]

It’s not a human right, but so many human rights depend on money in our society.

And so many of the things that depend on money, are going up and up, and have been for years whilst people’s wages stagnate.

It was the bankers we bailed out and continues to do so until the pandemic.

Now it’s the pandemic and brexit we have to bail out.

In the meantime, UK billionaire wealth is up £55B. City banker bonuses are up 28%. FTSE 100 CEO salaries up 39%.

Whilst the govt asks those asking for a 12-15% increase to be restrained, they gave themselves a pay rise as well recently btw.

They also dished out billions to their pals during said pandemic for goods and services that either never existed, were substandard, or overpriced based on the usual streams used.

Felixestowe docks made £79M in the last year. Since 2017 they’ve paid shareholders £198M and are offering their workers a pay cut.

So I am just going to disagree with your point re being in normal times and a functioning society. They can always find their masses of profit and whopping bosses increases but if the workers ask for an inflation pay rise it’s get back to work, we don’t have the money for that!

Agree with all that. Disagree only with the idea that everyone should always expect a pay rise in real terms.

[Stairway 2 7]

I wish care workers had a strong collective union. I can't think of a worse treated workforce. Clapped on a Thursday shat on on a Friday. All these private for profit companies fighting to the bottom

https://mobile.twitter.com/hellomccracken/status/1562367366587105280

@hellomccracken
New from
@TheKingsFund
: Estimated 395,000 careworkers would be better paid at 9 out of the 10 big supermarkets.

Chart shows difference in entry level pay for careworkers v supermarket workers.

Little wonder providers dread an Aldi opening in the area.

https://kingsfund.org.uk/blog/2022/08/how-social-care-struggles-compete-supermarkets-pay

[Alex Trager]

Agree with all that. Disagree only with the idea that everyone should always expect a pay rise in real terms.

For me, if profits are being made, workers’ pay should be getting increased with inflation

[superfurryhibby]

Don't think that it's a human right to have pay rises all the time. If the economy is in bad shape, for example because of a pandemic, falls in real pay are to be expected. If the economy is in bad shape because of Brexit, real pay could be expected to fall. In a decent society this would apply to everyone, but of course we're not in that.

What if economy is in bad shape because our sinister neo-liberal "owners" prefer it that way?

Solidarity with bin workers all the way.

My work, for a non government public body...... We declined the pay award from 21-22 and haven't had one for 22-23 either. It was an insulting offer, for a group of workers who continued to operate throughout the pandemic. About time we took direct action.

[lapsedhibee]

For me, if profits are being made, workers’ pay should be getting increased with inflation

:agree: Unless that prevents their employers retooling/whatever to stay competitive.

[lapsedhibee]

What if economy is in bad shape because our sinister neo-liberal "owners" prefer it that way?


Absolutely believe that's what's happening just now, but not sure that striking for above-inflation pay awards will cure it. Storming McDonalds might not either, though it will probably result in more litter everywhere, which might help with the binpersons' cause.

[He's here!]

If it's such a sweet deal why don't you go out and collect rubbish for £21k a year?

I'm not too proud to do any type of work but I take my hat off to anyone doing that job and fully support their demands for more money. There's **** all noble about going out to work for less than you are worth.

I didn't say it was a sweet deal. It's a decent offer though.

I earn less than 21k BTW.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I didn't say it was a sweet deal. It's a decent offer though.

I earn less than 21k BTW.

It’s a terrible deal because it’ll also follow on from years of pay freezes and pitiful pay rises.

It’s all coming back to bite employers on the arse. They’ve got away with giving such pathetic, below inflation pay rises for so long that the minute we get a real disaster of an economic situation they’re going to be left needing to make up 10-15% in one go because they’ve left their employees grossly underpaid for years. Hell mend them.

It would potentially be a decent deal if they had been getting inflation matching pay rises in previous years but they won’t have been presumably.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://mobile.twitter.com/UniteScotland/status/1562489217854279682

UniteScotland
Earlier today, our Regional Officer, Wendy Dunsmore spoke to STV about why Scottish Council Workers have decided to take strike action after rejecting the 5% pay

[Iain G]

If you let the American president know your Bin's Laden they will send a team to take it out 😉

[pollution]

Public sector employees rarely have an annual increase of the rate of inflation, perhaps 50 to 60% of it.

Anything under 5% in this case is not acceptable, in my view. For what it's worth.

[degenerated]

Public sector employees rarely have an annual increase of the rate of inflation, perhaps 50 to 60% of it.

Anything under 5% in this case is not acceptable, in my view. For what it's worth.Private sector employees probably fare just as bad.

[pollution]

Private sector employees probably fare just as bad.


Very true. Makes me cynical; if only we had unionisation in my field of sales management.

[wookie70]

Private sector employees probably fare just as bad. You are just about right under Labour Governments but wrong under Tory Governments. Most of my 37 years as a public servant has seen below inflation rises. I can only remember a single deal where we got above inflation without strings being attached. That was down to management imposing a below inflation multi year deal and then the crash coming almost immediately. Our pensions and compensation etc have also been attacked since the Tories have returned and the final part is that jobs in the Civil Service are not secure, at least south of the border. That all being said most workers are grossly undervalued and the whole economy and the way the country is run needs a total rethink.

https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%3A%2F%2Fd6c748xw2pzm8.cloudfront.net%2Fprod% 2F8dd896d0-f904-11ec-b51a-5d1280e310f3-standard.png?dpr=1&fit=scale-down&quality=highest&source=next&width=700 (https://www.ft.com/content/ec0beaef-47ec-40b3-b85c-84608c1ffcc3L)

[Stairway 2 7]

https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCScotNine/status/1562544803358842880

The Nine
@BBCScotNine
"In England, Wales and N Ireland they have been offered double what our members have been offered and that's unacceptable"

#TheNine asks Wendy Dunsmore, Lead negotiator for Unite the Union, why they've rejected the 5% pay rise offer

Bin strikes escalate across Scotland despite new pay offer

Mr Swinney met with union officials on Thursday evening which Unison described as "detailed constructive talks" but no further offer was made

[Jack]

Mr Swinney met with union officials on Thursday evening which Unison described as "detailed constructive talks" but no further offer was made

Thursday evening? It's only Thursday morning now!

The gift of prophecy?

Maybe they can tell us when it will be over?
(And the Euromillions please but just for me! I promise I'll share)

[Stairway 2 7]

Union on the news this morning saying they are looking for similar to what council workers are getting in England and Wales, which is I think 1800 flat rate.

Under 9% for the lowest paid and well under for higher bands. Hardly holding them to ransom

[ronaldo7]

It's being reported that, today Labour councillors agreed to a Tory amendment to use other Council staff to carry out work of striking workers.

Council staff are currently emptying very limited exemptions agreed with trade unions. Only where there are health and safety or public health issues

[Just Alf]

It's being reported that, today Labour councillors agreed to a Tory amendment to use other Council staff to carry out work of striking workers.

Council staff are currently emptying very limited exemptions agreed with trade unions. Only where there are health and safety or public health issuesI'd suggest an exemption should be applicable to those bins at the top of grassmarket where the ice cream kiosk has had to close at one of the busiest times of the year :agree:

[ronaldo7]

I'd suggest an exemption should be applicable to those bins at the top of grassmarket where the ice cream kiosk has had to close at one of the busiest times of the year :agree:

Who decides on the exemptions? Bins full outside council offices, or the centre of town given preference to outlying areas. Is it other council employees, or refuse workers themselves doing the work?

[Moulin Yarns]

Who decides on the exemptions? Bins full outside council offices, or the centre of town given preference to outlying areas. Is it other council employees, or refuse workers themselves doing the work?

You might find the grass is getting longer in the parks :wink:

[ronaldo7]

You might find the grass is getting longer in the parks :wink:

Grass you say? All we have is dirt.

[Moulin Yarns]

Grass you say? All we have is dirt.

That's council cuts for you 😉

[Just Alf]

Who decides on the exemptions? Bins full outside council offices, or the centre of town given preference to outlying areas. Is it other council employees, or refuse workers themselves doing the work?Really good question... I'm sure the strikers themselves don't want to ruin other people's livelihoods. The whole point of the strike (and the fact its expanding) is to highlight people are underpaid


Edit, bet the boy wished he'd moved the bins a bit further away when this all started!

[Stairway 2 7]

Government are going to have to get this sorted soon or it will be a grimm few weeks for them

@Jonathon_Shafi
Every primary school, nursery, and additional support school in Glasgow will close due to strike action on Sep 6th, 7th, 8th. We will be standing with all taking action.
@GlasgowStrike

[ronaldo7]

Union on the news this morning saying they are looking for similar to what council workers are getting in England and Wales, which is I think 1800 flat rate.

Under 9% for the lowest paid and well under for higher bands. Hardly holding them to ransom

Refuse workers in London going on strike.

In another blow to the Tory government’s record on industrial relations, east London bin men are now going on strike. Rubbish collectors in the borough of Newham have announced week-long industrial action, ending on September 3.

[Stairway 2 7]

Refuse workers in London going on strike.

In another blow to the Tory government’s record on industrial relations, east London bin men are now going on strike. Rubbish collectors in the borough of Newham have announced week-long industrial action, ending on September 3.

Brilliant. Hopefully our neoliberal political classes will start to learn that unions still have power. Raise tax if you need to, but our workers will snap if undervalued

[Moulin Yarns]

Brilliant. Hopefully our neoliberal political classes will start to learn that unions still have power. Raise tax if you need to, but our workers will snap if undervalued

I've asked you before, but do you think politicians can just snap their fingers and something happens. Tax rises won't happen before the next budget. Same applies to council taxes that you think will just rise overnight and everything will be OK.

[Stairway 2 7]

I've asked you before, but do you think politicians can just snap their fingers and something happens. Tax rises won't happen before the next budget. Same applies to council taxes that you think will just rise overnight and everything will be OK.

That is getting them away with years of too low taxes and populist council tax freezes. If they didn't do that they would have wiggle room. The pandemic was over 2 years ago it was clear there was an inflation time bomb. This is thanks to poor preparation and then saying well what do we do now.

Since they are already in their self made mess, then they have to adjust their budget. Saying well what exactly would you cut to posters on a hibs forum is beyond stupid. If a government in power can't adjust their huge budgets then they shouldn't be in power. Wages must be found so you cut whatever can be held off for a year and increase tax now in an emergency budget. It won't be popular but they have won mandates to do what is right.

[marinello59]

That is getting them away with years of too low taxes and populist council tax freezes. If they didn't do that they would have wiggle room. The pandemic was over 2 years ago it was clear there was an inflation time bomb. This is thanks to poor preparation and then saying well what do we do now.

Since they are already in their self made mess, then they have to adjust their budget. Saying well what exactly would you cut to posters on a hibs forum is beyond stupid. If a government in power can't adjust their huge budgets then they shouldn't be in power. Wages must be found so you cut whatever can be held off for a year and increase tax now in an emergency budget. It won't be popular but they have won mandates to do what is right.

:agree:

[Glory Lurker]

That is getting them away with years of too low taxes and populist council tax freezes. If they didn't do that they would have wiggle room. The pandemic was over 2 years ago it was clear there was an inflation time bomb. This is thanks to poor preparation and then saying well what do we do now.

Since they are already in their self made mess, then they have to adjust their budget. Saying well what exactly would you cut to posters on a hibs forum is beyond stupid. If a government in power can't adjust their huge budgets then they shouldn't be in power. Wages must be found so you cut whatever can be held off for a year and increase tax now in an emergency budget. It won't be popular but they have won mandates to do what is right.

The economic support provided for the pandemic wasn't finished two years ago. Indeed, the pandemic wasn't over two years ago, come on. As for it being an obvious inflation risk, the Bank of England didn't notice it.

[Moulin Yarns]

That is getting them away with years of too low taxes and populist council tax freezes. If they didn't do that they would have wiggle room. The pandemic was over 2 years ago it was clear there was an inflation time bomb. This is thanks to poor preparation and then saying well what do we do now.

Since they are already in their self made mess, then they have to adjust their budget. Saying well what exactly would you cut to posters on a hibs forum is beyond stupid. If a government in power can't adjust their huge budgets then they shouldn't be in power. Wages must be found so you cut whatever can be held off for a year and increase tax now in an emergency budget. It won't be popular but they have won mandates to do what is right.

The government has had to find £140m from existing budget to help the councils to increase the offer. There is no magic money tree. You can't increase taxes any time you like, it has to be done within a budget cycle and council taxes is set in March, way before anyone was talking about striking.


Every worker deserves a better deal, but where do the councils get the extra money to pay them when the budget is set in April?

[Stairway 2 7]

The government has had to find £140m from existing budget to help the councils to increase the offer. There is no magic money tree. You can't increase taxes any time you like, it has to be done within a budget cycle and council taxes is set in March, way before anyone was talking about striking.


Every worker deserves a better deal, but where do the councils get the extra money to pay them when the budget is set in April?

Of course the money has to come from scot gov not the council, the must increase the amount. The rest of your post is mute as its scot gov that has to give the money.

[Stairway 2 7]

The economic support provided for the pandemic wasn't finished two years ago. Indeed, the pandemic wasn't over two years ago, come on. As for it being an obvious inflation risk, the Bank of England didn't notice it.

I'm not sure what your on about with the pandemic sorry. A worldwide Lockdown happened over 2 years ago. That along with fuel prices is the major chunk of the inflation. Your can't stop all the economies and supply lines and not expect inflation to follow. If that wasn't the time to increase taxes on the rich then you can't call yourselves left wing.

The bank of England is still hasn't done anything hardly about inflation. Here's an article from last year asking the BOE to act over the impending doom of the inflation crisis. Why weren't governments getting prepared now, rather than pulling the what are we supposed to do patter
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/soaring-inflation-is-becoming-a-political-and-economic-crisis

[Paul1642]

I was in the city centre tonight for the first time since the strike began and holy crap, what a mess. 10x worse than I expected. It’s going to be horrendous by the end of the strike.

It’s staggering how much waste we use.

[Paul1642]

That is getting them away with years of too low taxes and populist council tax freezes. If they didn't do that they would have wiggle room. The pandemic was over 2 years ago it was clear there was an inflation time bomb. This is thanks to poor preparation and then saying well what do we do now.

Since they are already in their self made mess, then they have to adjust their budget. Saying well what exactly would you cut to posters on a hibs forum is beyond stupid. If a government in power can't adjust their huge budgets then they shouldn't be in power. Wages must be found so you cut whatever can be held off for a year and increase tax now in an emergency budget. It won't be popular but they have won mandates to do what is right.

I’m agree with most of your post but I think the “too low taxes and populist council tax freezes” is a bit unfair.

Minus the tax free allowance an intermediate rate taxpayer already looses 34.5% of their income on income tax and NI and another approx 15% of that on council tax meaning 50% of income is immediately taxed.

Of that 50% remaining you then loose another 20% on VAT when you spend it.

That’s enough tax for me thank you very much. I’d like to have some money left for my fuel bills, mortgage and food.

[Lendo]

I was in the city centre tonight for the first time since the strike began and holy crap, what a mess. 10x worse than I expected. It’s going to be horrendous by the end of the strike.

It’s staggering how much waste we use.

Saw two guys in high-viz this morning sweeping rubbish on Princes Street, had hoped that meant something had been agreed last night. Sadly not.

[danhibees1875]

Some neighbors still have their bins out from last Friday presumably hoping the lorry is simply a week late. Only one ambitious couple have doubled down on it though and now have just put all their bins out this morning.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Some neighbors still have their bins out from last Friday presumably hoping the lorry is simply a week late. Only one ambitious couple have doubled down on it though and now have just put all their bins out this morning.

Known as Hedging your bins.

[hibsbollah]

Saw two guys in high-viz this morning sweeping rubbish on Princes Street, had hoped that meant something had been agreed last night. Sadly not.

Also saw 2 similar guys on bruntsfield links, plus a bin lorry picking up glass recycling outside Scotmid near the Kings theatre, assuming this is a private contractor?

[ronaldo7]

Some neighbors still have their bins out from last Friday presumably hoping the lorry is simply a week late. Only one ambitious couple have doubled down on it though and now have just put all their bins out this morning.

East Lothian bins picked up Wednesday and this morning. The unions didn't get the required threshold of votes to strike.

[danhibees1875]

Known as Hedging your bins.

A strong gust of wind will certainly do that. :greengrin

[Smartie]

I stay in a development that was built just under 20 years ago and we've got a communal bin bit where the rubbish get picked up from.

There have been signs up throughout the development outlining what to do when the bins aren't being picked up ie fill the big crates first as usual and then when they're full leave the rest on the floor.

I took bins down the other night and was expecting stinky carnage in that wee room - but the bins MUST have been emptied by someone on Wednesday as they were just the same as ever.

Some work is being done by some people in some places. No idea who, where exactly or why though.

[ronaldo7]

I stay in a development that was built just under 20 years ago and we've got a communal bin bit where the rubbish get picked up from.

There have been signs up throughout the development outlining what to do when the bins aren't being picked up ie fill the big crates first as usual and then when they're full leave the rest on the floor.

I took bins down the other night and was expecting stinky carnage in that wee room - but the bins MUST have been emptied by someone on Wednesday as they were just the same as ever.

Some work is being done by some people in some places. No idea who, where exactly or why though.

Three different unions covering waste management and bin collections. Some unions, as in east Lothian didn't get the required % of strike ballots to get them over the threshold

[GlesgaeHibby]

East Lothian bins picked up Wednesday and this morning. The unions didn't get the required threshold of votes to strike.

Think I saw something about them potentially being on strike next month in East Lothian. Recycling should be unaffected though as they've sub contracted that work.

[ronaldo7]

Think I saw something about them potentially being on strike next month in East Lothian. Recycling should be unaffected though as they've sub contracted that work.

Are, you might be right. I was a bit surprised to see the bins all going out last night.

[DaveF]

I didn't say it was a sweet deal. It's a decent offer though.

I earn less than 21k BTW.

Are you in the prime of your working life, supporting a family while you earn that or doing something to keep you busy after taking redundancy / waiting on a nice pension?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Kids from Edinburgh Academy are out picking up litter and clearing bin bags in Stockbridge..

:rolleyes:

[stoneyburn hibs]

The Broxburn recycling centre is open this coming Monday and Tuesday.
Most likely closing earlier than normal on Tuesday afternoon.

[wookie70]

The Broxburn recycling centre is open this coming Monday and Tuesday.
Most likely closing earlier than normal on Tuesday afternoon. Midlothian recycling centre need It D and proof of address

[stoneyburn hibs]

Midlothian recycling centre need It D and proof of address

Probably do the same at others during the strike to prevent a pile on.

[He's here!]

Are you in the prime of your working life, supporting a family while you earn that or doing something to keep you busy after taking redundancy / waiting on a nice pension?

Loving the loaded and presumptious nature of your questioning ...

In answer tho, I lost my job during Covid. Retrained and now workng in education. Yeh, it's tricky with a family but my last job was never lucrative either do we're used to it. Would jump at a 5% pay rise mind you.

Oh, and retirement's a couple of decades away.

[Since90+2]

I can see the council winning out in this one. Bin strikes in Edinburgh will be over in a few days and if they can get through no collections during the fringe, they will think they can manage through anything. The unions obviously played their trump card during the festival and I think they were banking on the council backing down.

Waste collection staff won't be able to sustain the hit to their wages with too many further strikes, especially looking at energy bills.

I'd imagine it will be a 5/6% rise, although they deserve more.

[He's here!]

Kids from Edinburgh Academy are out picking up litter and clearing bin bags in Stockbridge..

:rolleyes:

Good for them. Saw other school kids doing likewise at the Meadows (Heriot's/St Thomas's maybe?).

[stoneyburn hibs]

I can see the council winning out in this one. Bin strikes in Edinburgh will be over in a few days and if they can get through no collections during the fringe, they will think they can manage through anything. The unions obviously played their trump card during the festival and I think they were banking on the council backing down.

Waste collection staff won't be able to sustain the hit to their wages with too many further strikes, especially looking at energy bills.

I'd imagine it will be a 5/6% rise, although they deserve more.

There is absolutely no chance that a 5/6% will be accepted unless it had conditions (amongst others) that a 5/6 % will be added next year.

They will grind it out also as there is parachute payments of £70 a day from the union.
Up the workers.

[Since90+2]

There is absolutely no chance that a 5/6% will be accepted unless it had conditions (amongst others) that a 5/6 % will be added next year.

They will grind it out also as there is parachute payments of £70 a day from the union.
Up the workers.

They get £70 a day from the union every day they strike? Never knew that, maybe they will hold out then.

[wookie70]

Kids from Edinburgh Academy are out picking up litter and clearing bin bags in Stockbridge..

:rolleyes:


I'll bite. Posh kids doing their Tory apprenticeship and learning to be scabs.

[DaveF]

Loving the loaded and presumptious nature of your questioning ...

In answer tho, I lost my job during Covid. Retrained and now workng in education. Yeh, it's tricky with a family but my last job was never lucrative either do we're used to it. Would jump at a 5% pay rise mind you.

Oh, and retirement's a couple of decades away.

A commited Tory on less than 21k a year. No wonder they won the election when they have people on low incomes ready to vote for them.

[stoneyburn hibs]

They get £70 a day from the union every day they strike? Never knew that, maybe they will hold out then.

That's if you are in the Unite union,it will be not much different if you are in Unison or the GMB.

[He's here!]

A commited Tory on less than 21k a year. No wonder they won the election when they have people on low incomes ready to vote for them.

You make a lot of derogatory assumptions about my life. It's unpleasant.

I vote Labour in every general election BTW.

[stoneyburn hibs]

You make a lot of derogatory assumptions about my life. It's unpleasant.

I vote Labour in every general election BTW.

So why would you say that the council workers are selfish ******* and should get back to work?

[He's here!]

I was in the city centre tonight for the first time since the strike began and holy crap, what a mess. 10x worse than I expected. It’s going to be horrendous by the end of the strike.

It’s staggering how much waste we use.

Council has given an emergency task force comprising staff from other council depts the nod to clear up the worst affected city centre areas:

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-bin-strike-task-force-24856535

[DaveF]

You make a lot of derogatory assumptions about my life. It's unpleasant.

I vote Labour in every general election BTW.

If it's unpleasant, stick me on ignore.

[He's here!]

So why would you say that the council workers are selfish ******* and should get back to work?

Because I think 5% is a realistic and reasonable offer in the current climate. The strike has quickly created a major city health hazard and has become irresponsible IMHO.

[overdrive]

There's a walkway behind the houses opposite us. Last night I observed a neighbour carrying bags to that walkway and then coming back empty handed. This was then repeated a few times. Dirty midden. She has a garage, could she not keep the rubbish in there rather than fly tipping it?

[hibsbollah]

Because I think 5% is a realistic and reasonable offer in the current climate. The strike has quickly created a major city health hazard and has become irresponsible IMHO.

That’s your right wing politics talking. Why pretend otherwise? 5% when inflation is running at 11% is only reasonable when we’re ‘all in it together’, to coin a phrase. And self evidently, we’re not.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Maximum effect then.
It's irresponsible to constantly award council workers pish pay rises.
5% doesn't touch the sides.
Maybe the Tories could give to the Scottish government in order to match what they have given in England?
Better Together and all that.

[Just Alf]

Because I think 5% is a realistic and reasonable offer in the current climate. The strike has quickly created a major city health hazard and has become irresponsible IMHO.I often disagree with you... so much so I've considered the dreaded 'ignore' button! :greengrin I'm just too nosey tho lol.

However in this I tend to agree, we ALL need to take a bit of a hit to get through this... employers need to take reduced profits, public sector needs to balance its books a bit .. and employees need to take a pragmatic view on what's prudent.... oh... and the government needs to consider what it can do to blunt the impact on both employers and employees.

Otherwise we're going to go into an upward inflation spiral and many (more) folks will begin to lose their jobs/houses etc.

[stoneyburn hibs]

That’s your right wing politics talking. Why pretend otherwise? 5% when inflation is running at 11% is only reasonable when we’re ‘all in it together’, to coin a phrase. And self evidently, we’re not.


You done me by two minutes, I'm slow 😂
Well said.

[Just Alf]

I'm assuming her garage has a door that said rubbish bags could accidentally be left in front of?

[stoneyburn hibs]

I often disagree with you... so much so I've considered the dreaded 'ignore' button! :greengrin I'm just too nosey tho lol.

However in this I tend to agree, we ALL need to take a bit of a hit to get through this... employers need to take reduced profits, public sector needs to balance its books a bit .. and employees need to take a pragmatic view on what's prudent.... oh... and the government needs to consider what it can do to blunt the impact on both employers and employees.

Otherwise we're going to go into an upward inflation spiral and many (more) folks will begin to lose their jobs/houses etc.

The public sector can balance the books, pay the workers and balance the books.

[Since90+2]

I often disagree with you... so much so I've considered the dreaded 'ignore' button! :greengrin I'm just too nosey tho lol.

However in this I tend to agree, we ALL need to take a bit of a hit to get through this... employers need to take reduced profits, public sector needs to balance its books a bit .. and employees need to take a pragmatic view on what's prudent.... oh... and the government needs to consider what it can do to blunt the impact on both employers and employees.

Otherwise we're going to go into an upward inflation spiral and many (more) folks will begin to lose their jobs/houses etc.

People on 21k a year, especially living alone, won't be able to get through this on 5% rise though, thats the whole point.

Someone living alone earning that money, paying rent or a mortgage, council tax and ridiculous energy prices will not be able to live.

[Gatecrasher]

There's a walkway behind the houses opposite us. Last night I observed a neighbour carrying bags to that walkway and then coming back empty handed. This was then repeated a few times. Dirty midden. She has a garage, could she not keep the rubbish in there rather than fly tipping it?

There's no doubt folk are using this as an opportunity to get rid of stuff that's been sitting for ages, some of the stuff I have seen sitting on the streets like old furniture and mattresses.

[Moulin Yarns]

Kids from Edinburgh Academy are out picking up litter and clearing bin bags in Stockbridge..

:rolleyes:

Well, I suppose when you think of the alternative for Edinburgh academy pupils 😉

[weecounty hibby]

I often disagree with you... so much so I've considered the dreaded 'ignore' button! :greengrin I'm just too nosey tho lol.

However in this I tend to agree, we ALL need to take a bit of a hit to get through this... employers need to take reduced profits, public sector needs to balance its books a bit .. and employees need to take a pragmatic view on what's prudent.... oh... and the government needs to consider what it can do to blunt the impact on both employers and employees.

Otherwise we're going to go into an upward inflation spiral and many (more) folks will begin to lose their jobs/houses etc.

That's all well and good but sadly the richest in society just keep on getting richer. The poorest are getting poorer and there is no real drive to make the rich just that little bit worse off to make the poor jsutvthat little bit better off. We are being conned, robbed and taken for absolute fools by the thebrichest 1% of the population. So in short I totally disagree that we ALL need to help out. The 200 billionaires who have a combined wealth of over 700 billion pounds in this country should be the ones who shoulder the burden. It is ****ing obscene for someone to have so much money. You couldn't spend 1 billion pounds but tes e *******s have that in the bank. On the back of you and I working our ****ing ***** off

[Jack]

That's all well and good but sadly the richest in society just keep on getting richer. The poorest are getting poorer and there is no real drive to make the rich just that little bit worse off to make the poor jsutvthat little bit better off. We are being conned, robbed and taken for absolute fools by the thebrichest 1% of the population. So in short I totally disagree that we ALL need to help out. The 200 billionaires who have a combined wealth of over 700 billion pounds in this country should be the ones who shoulder the burden. It is ****ing obscene for someone to have so much money. You couldn't spend 1 billion pounds but tes e *******s have that in the bank. On the back of you and I working our ****ing ***** off

I agree with what you're saying, the 1% are raking it in.

But so are so many others - those at the top of organisations and others earning obscene salaries and bonuses even when they're making losses. There's the companies with huge turnovers that surprisingly pay little in tax.

Too many [high ranking] torys and their pals seem to think tax is optional.

When these scandalous inequalities are addressed then maybe, just maybe we'll feel as though we're all in this together.

[Mr Grieves]

I can see the council winning out in this one. Bin strikes in Edinburgh will be over in a few days and if they can get through no collections during the fringe, they will think they can manage through anything. The unions obviously played their trump card during the festival and I think they were banking on the council backing down.

Waste collection staff won't be able to sustain the hit to their wages with too many further strikes, especially looking at energy bills.

I'd imagine it will be a 5/6% rise, although they deserve more.

Council worker and union member here, on an above average wage. I reckon I'll get around 5%, which I'll be satisfied with. The issue is with the lowest paid workers whom the unions want a flat rate rise (around £2000 or 10%) which I'm fully supportive. Point has been made and I reckon it'll be sorted soon enough.

[Just Alf]

People on 21k a year, especially living alone, won't be able to get through this on 5% rise though, thats the whole point.

Someone living alone earning that money, paying rent or a mortgage, council tax and ridiculous energy prices will not be able to live.Like me then, my company would have to make some workers redundant to be able to afford the levels of pay rise being talked about.

Something is better than nothing and we're all going to have to take a hit here?

[Just Alf]

I agree with what you're saying, the 1% are raking it in.

But so are so many others - those at the top of organisations and others earning obscene salaries and bonuses even when they're making losses. There's the companies with huge turnovers that surprisingly pay little in tax.

Too many [high ranking] torys and their pals seem to think tax is optional.

When these scandalous inequalities are addressed then maybe, just maybe we'll feel as though we're all in this together.Good point re the top earners...

[Stairway 2 7]

I agree with what you're saying, the 1% are raking it in.

But so are so many others - those at the top of organisations and others earning obscene salaries and bonuses even when they're making losses. There's the companies with huge turnovers that surprisingly pay little in tax.

Too many [high ranking] torys and their pals seem to think tax is optional.

When these scandalous inequalities are addressed then maybe, just maybe we'll feel as though we're all in this together.

Do you reckon corporation tax should be higher in I Scotland, some on here want it tiny to encourage more companies and let them pay hardly any tax on enormous profit.

Do you also agree scot gov should increase the tax of the highest wage band

[Since90+2]

Like me then, my company would have to make some workers redundant to be able to afford the levels of pay rise being talked about.

Something is better than nothing and we're all going to have to take a hit here?

I'm not sure not having enough money to eat or heat your home during the depths of winter is "taking a hit". It's the very basic human needs.

And let's be frank about that, these latest energy price rises and inflation figures will mean exactly that. People being forced to either not eat or heat their home. In a modern, wealthy society that is completely unacceptable.

[Stairway 2 7]

I'm not sure not having enough money to eat or heat your home during the depths of winter is "taking a hit". It's the very basic human needs.

And let's be frank about that, these latest energy price rises will mean exactly that. People being forced to either not eat or heat their home. In a modern, wealthy society that is completely unacceptable.

Spot on. In it together is a trick the rich play to the poor. There is plenty to go around in the uk. We need redistribution and our mps msps to push this at all times. There is never not enough money that people freeze to death

[Paulie Walnuts]

I'll bite. Posh kids doing their Tory apprenticeship and learning to be scabs.

:agree:

[Moulin Yarns]

Council worker and union member here, on an above average wage. I reckon I'll get around 5%, which I'll be satisfied with. The issue is with the lowest paid workers whom the unions want a flat rate rise (around £2000 or 10%) which I'm fully supportive. Point has been made and I reckon it'll be sorted soon enough.

I was also a council employee for 30 years. Starting on tech3 ending on professional level 5 after a job reevaluation and a promotion. I have never had an above inflation rise but agree that the lower grades needs an improvement and the best way is for an lump sum.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Because I think 5% is a realistic and reasonable offer in the current climate. The strike has quickly created a major city health hazard and has become irresponsible IMHO.

The reason so many are striking is that this extends well beyond the current inflation crisis.

In 2008 the banks wrecked the economy, and public sector workers* suffered for their actions through a decade of tory austerity with 0% or 1% pay rises. Over a decade later, we're facing a new crisis, in the form of large scale theft from oil and gas companies. In a country where the gap between the richest and poorest has grown and we've now got record numbers of billionaires it's ordinary workers again being asked to show restraint. Folk that have had real terms pay cuts for years being told to show restraint, and suggestions that 5% is realistic when some analysts predict inflation is headed for 18%...

As others have said, there is enough money in the UK if we had a government serious about taking radical moves like taxing wealth, and clamping down on large companies that avoid paying their fair share of taxes in the UK.

*Conscious private sector suffered significantly post 2008 too. I graduated in 2009 into a brutal jobs market.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Good for them. Saw other school kids doing likewise at the Meadows (Heriot's/St Thomas's maybe?).

Aye, good for them undermining the strikers.

[DaveF]

Aye, good for them undermining the strikers.

He's a labour voter. It's what they do nowadays (seemingly)

[lucky]

All workers deserve a decent pay rise. The bin men and women are standing up for an improved offer. Going by media reports they want the same flat rate offer as English and Welsh bin workers got of around £2k. The fact they’ve withdrawn their labour shows how important they are to our communities. Edinburgh is an absolute mess and COSLA and the Scottish Government have brought this in themselves. I do feel the SG have got to up their game on industrial relations issues. They can’t keep blaming Westminster or the local councils and pro independence supporters can’t keep attacking trade unions and their representatives as both are damaging the case for independence. No worker votes for strikes and to lose pay because they don’t want independence or are anti SNP. Workers are fighting to heat and feed their families.

[He's here!]

Aye, good for them undermining the strikers.

When the strikers' actions start to have a damaging impact on the livelihoods of others my 'solidarity' is limited:

Edinburgh ice cream kiosk forced to close as bin strikes 'drive away customers' - Edinburgh Live (https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-ice-cream-kiosk-forced-24854844?amp%3Bamp=)

The length of this strike is excessive and I don't blame people for taking it into their own hands to try and clean up.

[Stairway 2 7]

When the strikers' actions start to have a damaging impact on the livelihoods of others my 'solidarity' is limited:

Edinburgh ice cream kiosk forced to close as bin strikes 'drive away customers' - Edinburgh Live (https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-ice-cream-kiosk-forced-24854844?amp%3Bamp=)

The length of this strike is excessive and I don't blame people for taking it into their own hands to try and clean up.

Cheap trick that is getting amplified by centre right media. One person's business sadly in the crossfire. This is about tens of thousands of Scottish jobs in a year hundreds of Scots will freeze to death.

[Stairway 2 7]

All workers deserve a decent pay rise. The bin men and women are standing up for an improved offer. Going by media reports they want the same flat rate offer as English and Welsh bin workers got of around £2k. The fact they’ve withdrawn their labour shows how important they are to our communities. Edinburgh is an absolute mess and COSLA and the Scottish Government have brought this in themselves. I do feel the SG have got to up their game on industrial relations issues. They can’t keep blaming Westminster or the local councils and pro independence supporters can’t keep attacking trade unions and their representatives as both are damaging the case for independence. No worker votes for strikes and to lose pay because they don’t want independence or are anti SNP. Workers are fighting to heat and feed their families.

Spot on

[marinello59]

All workers deserve a decent pay rise. The bin men and women are standing up for an improved offer. Going by media reports they want the same flat rate offer as English and Welsh bin workers got of around £2k. The fact they’ve withdrawn their labour shows how important they are to our communities. Edinburgh is an absolute mess and COSLA and the Scottish Government have brought this in themselves. I do feel the SG have got to up their game on industrial relations issues. They can’t keep blaming Westminster or the local councils and pro independence supporters can’t keep attacking trade unions and their representatives as both are damaging the case for independence. No worker votes for strikes and to lose pay because they don’t want independence or are anti SNP. Workers are fighting to heat and feed their families.

:agree:

[Jack]

Do you reckon corporation tax should be higher in I Scotland, some on here want it tiny to encourage more companies and let them pay hardly any tax on enormous profit.

Do you also agree scot gov should increase the tax of the highest wage band

Whatever happens in iScotland has bugger all to do with this latest crisis.

At the moment we are part of the UK and the immoral inequalities in tax take is a UK wide issue that has been ignored at best and encouraged at worse by the UK government.

[Stairway 2 7]

Whatever happens in iScotland has bugger all to do with this latest crisis.

At the moment we are part of the UK and the immoral inequalities in tax take is a UK wide issue that has been ignored at best and encouraged at worse by the UK government.

I'll put that down as no comment. Scot gov could raise tax in an emergency budget today mind you but fair enough

[grunt]

I'll put that down as no comment. Scot gov could raise tax in an emergency budget today mind you but fair enough
Who should ScotGov target with this proposed tax rise? It can only be individuals because I don't think SG has powers to vary CT. So how much are you going to raise the highest level of Scottish Income Tax by, how many people will it impact, and how much will be raised? How much more money will this provide to address the bin strikes?

[Stairway 2 7]

Who should ScotGov target with this proposed tax rise? It can only be individuals because I don't think SG has powers to vary CT. So how much are you going to raise the highest level of Scottish Income Tax by, how many people will it impact, and how much will be raised? How much more money will this provide to address the bin strikes?

Once again I'm getting mistaken for the finance minister who spends his year on this but.. You obviously taper it upwards until it covers a Scottish minimum wage being a decent level and inflation matching rises for public workers

[Paulie Walnuts]

When the strikers' actions start to have a damaging impact on the livelihoods of others my 'solidarity' is limited:

Edinburgh ice cream kiosk forced to close as bin strikes 'drive away customers' - Edinburgh Live (https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-ice-cream-kiosk-forced-24854844?amp%3Bamp=)

The length of this strike is excessive and I don't blame people for taking it into their own hands to try and clean up.

The length of the strike isn’t excessive as they’ve not been offered an acceptable pay rise. I’m not quite sure how anyone can claim the length of the strike is excessive unless they don’t understand the purpose of a strike.

Going by that logic, strikes would be a waste of time as you’d just have to ride the storm for 2 or 3 days and everything goes back to normal with no pay rises given.

The strike will end when the bin workers get a fair deal. The bin men certainly aren’t the people to blame for the closure of the ice cream shop, it’s the cretins offering them pitiful wage increases.

[hibsbollah]

When the strikers' actions start to have a damaging impact on the livelihoods of others my 'solidarity' is limited:

up.

I think you’ve misunderstood the concept of withdrawing your Labour. If it wasn’t going to have an impact on livelihoods there would literally be no impact and there would be no point doing it.

[Jack]

I'll put that down as no comment. Scot gov could raise tax in an emergency budget today mind you but fair enough

iScotland at the moment is an irrelevance and yes Scotland could raise a relatively small amount of tax the way you suggest.

However it's the UK government that has the major levers that could impact the hardship millions are facing.

While personal taxation is one way it won't touch the sides in mitigating the impact of the problem.

The taxation on big business with huge turnovers needs to be looked at.

VAT on fuel needs to be looked at. The government tax domestic users at 5% so when the cost of fuel doubles/trebles so does the £amount of tax, obviously. VAT on business is 20% on fuel and there's no price cap. The increase in £s for just the tax take would in normal times be tough to take.

The UK government could also introduce a fuel price cap, £2,000 has been suggested for your average domestic user.

Anything but they're doing nothing. Diddly squat.

The UK government continues to tan its fat lardy arse on the beach or claim impotence ... brought about by their own incompetence.

[Stairway 2 7]

iScotland at the moment is an irrelevance and yes Scotland could raise a relatively small amount of tax the way you suggest.

However it's the UK government that has the major levers that could impact the hardship millions are facing.

While personal taxation is one way it won't touch the sides in mitigating the impact of the problem.

The taxation on big business with huge turnovers needs to be looked at.

VAT on fuel needs to be looked at. The government tax domestic users at 5% so when the cost of fuel doubles/trebles so does the £amount of tax, obviously. VAT on business is 20% on fuel and there's no price cap. The increase in £s for just the tax take would in normal times be tough to take.

The UK government could also introduce a fuel price cap, £2,000 has been suggested for your average domestic user.

Anything but they're doing nothing. Diddly squat.

The UK government continues to tan its fat lardy arse on the beach or claim impotence brought about by their own incompetence.

I agree it's getting mind numbing that they are doing nothing be want can't sit back and wait for the tories not to be tories. Vat being removed or taxing the profits isn't going to touch the sides.

Uk gov is giving £37 billion in subsidies starting October but that won't be enough. I think it would cost about £70 billion a year to cap at 2000. Governments need to find a way to pay the price increases all across Europe.

I don't agree with price cap because it doesn't stop consumption which we definitely need to do. It also benefits the same across the board when it's the poor that inflation is hurting the most

This is verging into the energy thread but it's connected obviously. Denmark top tax is 55%, they still attract high earners and their gdp is above up. Scot gov could do more

[grunt]

Once again I'm getting mistaken for the finance minister who spends his year on this but.. You obviously taper it upwards until it covers a Scottish minimum wage being a decent level and inflation matching rises for public workers

Ahh, I see. You "taper it upwards". "Until it covers a Scottish minimum wage". Ok then.

:confused:

You suggested the Scottish Gov could raise taxes to end the bin strike. But you don't say how, or by how much, or who would pay.

[grunt]

This is verging into the energy thread but it's connected obviously. Denmark top tax is 55%, they still attract high earners and their gdp is above up. Scot gov could do more
Again with this? Tell us how the SG could do more, what more it could do and how much that "more" would raise, please?

[Stairway 2 7]

Ahh, I see. You "taper it upwards". "Until it covers a Scottish minimum wage". Ok then.

:confused:

You suggested the Scottish Gov could raise taxes to end the bin strike. But you don't say how, or by how much, or who would pay.

You want me to get pen and paper out and find out the exact % of increase in taxes to cover the increase in wages. You know that's mental I'm sure. As I said in another thread Denmarks top rate is 55%. I'd bet that would do the job. But obviously it's a job for scot gov to say the workers need this let's look at what increases cover that. Scot gov can't call itself left wing if it isn't interested in wealth redistribution

[Just Alf]

I think you’ve misunderstood the concept of withdrawing your Labour. If it wasn’t going to have an impact on livelihoods there would literally be no impact and there would be no point doing it.I would've thought the strikers might consider showing solidarity with other workers in the same boat as them and have some pickets (with their flags etc) pop round and clear the rubbish over out the way a bit so the guy could reopen .

Win win for everyone and would be a really positive message from the unions showing its not us they're fighting against but their employer/the government

[Stairway 2 7]

I would've thought the strikers might consider showing solidarity with other workers in the same boat as them and have some pickets (with their flags etc) pop round and clear the rubbish over out the way a bit so the guy could reopen .

Win win for everyone and would be a really positive message from the unions showing its not us they're fighting against but their employer/the government

Then the chippy down the road says the same. The quickest way this ends is if they agree to a comprise pronto that values the workers

[Paulie Walnuts]

Then the chippy down the road says the same. The quickest way this ends is if they agree to a comprise pronto that values the workers

I agree.

It’s a nice thought that they’d go down and remove the bins infront of this shop, but then others would get wind of it and say they need there’s done as well.

[Just Alf]

Then the chippy down the road says the same. The quickest way this ends is if they agree to a comprise pronto that values the workers
I agree.

It’s a nice thought that they’d go down and remove the bins infront of this shop, but then others would get wind of it and say they need there’s done as well.True I guess, the typical "opening a can of worms" scenario!

[He's here!]

I would've thought the strikers might consider showing solidarity with other workers in the same boat as them and have some pickets (with their flags etc) pop round and clear the rubbish over out the way a bit so the guy could reopen .

Win win for everyone and would be a really positive message from the unions showing its not us they're fighting against but their employer/the government

Cafe in my sister's street has hired a skip to accommodate their rubbish and is allowing local residents to put their bin bags in for the price of a cup of coffee. Resourceful and entrepreneurial.

[He's here!]

Public health warning issued:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-62701045

Good to hear local punters rallied round the ice cream kiosk to clear the rubbish though.

[Glory Lurker]

Public health warning issued:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-62701045

Good to hear local punters rallied round the ice cream kiosk to clear the rubbish though.

Why in the name of the wee man would you be dumping nappies at the moment? Folk need to accept the situation and not make it worse.

[CapitalGreen]

Cafe in my sister's street has hired a skip to accommodate their rubbish and is allowing local residents to put their bin bags in for the price of a cup of coffee. Resourceful and entrepreneurial.

Why have they had to hire a skip to accommodate their rubbish? As a commercial premises by law should they not be having their waste collected by a licensed waste carrier?

[Since90+2]

Why have they had to hire a skip to accommodate their rubbish? As a commercial premises by law should they not be having their waste collected by a licensed waste carrier?

They should be, it's against the law for a business to use public bins for waste.

[Just Alf]

They should be, it's against the law for a business to use public bins for waste.Can you pay the council? :dunno:

[Moulin Yarns]

Can you pay the council? :dunno:

Yep. My council do commercial waste.

[Since90+2]

Yep. My council do commercial waste.

Edinburgh Council don't collect commercial waste, even if paid.

It's not a service they offer.

[He's here!]

Why have they had to hire a skip to accommodate their rubbish? As a commercial premises by law should they not be having their waste collected by a licensed waste carrier?

Not sure. She stays in West Lothian tho so maybe the regulations are different?

They also do B&B and I see there are Edinburgh B&B owners hiring a skip too so maybe similar thinking:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-62676838

[Since90+2]

Not sure. She stays in West Lothian tho so maybe the regulations are different?

They also do B&B and I see there are Edinburgh B&B owners hiring a skip too so maybe similar thinking:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-62676838

West Lothian council do not offer a commercial waste collection service so the question should be asked of the cafe what they've been doing with their waste up till now.

[Stairway 2 7]

There's a team of good samaratins in Edinburgh, they are rapid relief team uk. They have placed 30 large bins round the city that you might have seen and have also said they have collected hundreds of bags worth of rubbish
https://mobile.twitter.com/RRT_UK

Turns out they rrt are the charity/PR team of the Christian brethren. The Christian brethren are a sect who are ultra Conservative and anti trade union. They have major links to the republicans and Conservatives here, in Canada, Australia and more.

Members businesses won over £1.1 billion in covid deals from there tory chums. No member is allowed to join a union
https://www.smh.com.au/national/secret-brethren-sect-used-ir-laws-to-exclude-unions-20060922-gdofor.html

Is this what happens when you let the tories run your council, you get into their evil Web? Hopefully these strike undermining trade union haters, dont affect the outcome.

Surely the biggest prize of independence regardless of net income will be less insidious corruption.

Article about how the weird anti left wing sect got its claws in Westminster
https://times-deck.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/projects/470e7a4f017a5476afb7eeb3f8b96f9b.html

[Scouse Hibee]

Cafe in my sister's street has hired a skip to accommodate their rubbish and is allowing local residents to put their bin bags in for the price of a cup of coffee. Resourceful and entrepreneurial.

Why would a cafe need to hire a skip? The council don’t collect business waste, businesses pay private contractors to take it away.

[Scouse Hibee]

West Lothian council do not offer a commercial waste collection service so the question should be asked of the cafe what they've been doing with their waste up till now.

Exactly, I know of one business close to us who suddenly have mountains of waste building up in black bags.We know why.

[CapitalGreen]

Exactly, I know of one business close to us who suddenly have mountains of waste building up in black bags.We know why.

Nothing says community spirit quite like a commercial business illegally using a public service funded by the council tax payer. Maybe if these businesses disposed of their waste correctly, the council could save some money and be better able to pay the refuse collectors what they deserve.

[grunt]

https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/binstrike?fbclid=IwAR20vz1VtZlCtQPh-Yg9T37Cw8IVN6uiqgRj5-at25OtKmMbOx5I7gnS7y4


Services restart 30 August

Our bin collection and street cleaning services will restart on Tuesday 30 August.

We’ll be working hard to catch up on collections after the strike action.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/binstrike?fbclid=IwAR20vz1VtZlCtQPh-Yg9T37Cw8IVN6uiqgRj5-at25OtKmMbOx5I7gnS7y4

👍 That makes it sound like a resolution has been found.

[Lendo]

�� That makes it sound like a resolution has been found.

Was that not always the intended date for this set of strikes to end? Reading in twitter that the backlog might not be cleared in time for the strikes due to take place in September.

[Jamesie]

Was that not always the intended date for this set of strikes to end? Reading in twitter that the backlog might not be cleared in time for the strikes due to take place in September.

Yup - not sure of the September timings, but I reckon it could take a good fortnight to clean the city up after 30 August.

[Moulin Yarns]

Was that not always the intended date for this set of strikes to end? Reading in twitter that the backlog might not be cleared in time for the strikes due to take place in September.

Maybe, not been keeping up with the Edinburgh situation. Living in highland Perthshire makes me kinda remote from the rest of the world 😂

[Stairway 2 7]

The workers whilst work proud will I doubt be killing themselves when they come back, certainly if no money is found for them

More strikes planned, if people don't push the government when their city is a mess then they might when the teachers go on strike

[Sylar]

It's obviously not just Edinburgh anymore, but I was a little surprised to see how bad Glasgow was when I got in for work this morning. Been on strike only since last Wednesday and parts of the city centre are a real mess.

[Smartie]

The workers whilst work proud will I doubt be killing themselves when they come back, certainly if no money is found for them

More strikes planned, if people don't push the government when their city is a mess then they might when the teachers go on strike

I wonder how effective the strikes will be, and how much public support there is likely to be for striking workers right now though?

Most folk are probably, rightly or wrongly, more worried about their own "cost of living" situation at the moment and I think there's an acceptance that there's going to be a bit less to go round for a while.

Therefore I wonder how much sympathy there is likely to be for the binmen, the teachers, the doctors or whoever who are holding out for pay rises higher than the average taxpayer might be set to receive?

(That's a generalisation, without comment on the individual merits of each group of striking workers' situation.)

[Stairway 2 7]

I wonder how effective the strikes will be, and how much public support there is likely to be for striking workers right now though?

Most folk are probably, rightly or wrongly, more worried about their own "cost of living" situation at the moment and I think there's an acceptance that there's going to be a bit less to go round for a while.

Therefore I wonder how much sympathy there is likely to be for the binmen, the teachers, the doctors or whoever who are holding out for pay rises higher than the average taxpayer might be set to receive?

(That's a generalisation, without comment on the individual merits of each group of striking workers' situation.)

Probably weighted more towards being left or right politically. Some people probably supported the police at Orgreave. But you'd be surprised that a good number will support the workers, because strong unions and governments and companies getting a black eye helps us all


Survation.
@Survation
The industrial action taken by postal workers is justified/unjustified

Justified 63%
Unjustified 37%

2005 polled, 24-25 Aug 22, online, 18+ in UK, with don’t knows (15%) removed


@eiecampaign
·
43m
NEW:
@Survation
poll reveals overwhelming support for #EnoughIsEnough campaign demands.

Do you agree with:

- Capping energy bills 84%
- Pay rising with inflation 76%
- Ending food poverty 83%
- Decent homes for all 78%
- Taxing the rich more 72%

http://wesayenough.co.uk

[Jack]

I wonder how effective the strikes will be, and how much public support there is likely to be for striking workers right now though?

Most folk are probably, rightly or wrongly, more worried about their own "cost of living" situation at the moment and I think there's an acceptance that there's going to be a bit less to go round for a while.

Therefore I wonder how much sympathy there is likely to be for the binmen, the teachers, the doctors or whoever who are holding out for pay rises higher than the average taxpayer might be set to receive?

(That's a generalisation, without comment on the individual merits of each group of striking workers' situation.)

I think a lot of people who wouldn't normally be interested or in favour of multiple strikes have been enraged by the largesse and general shenanigans of the tory party over the last few years and with the prospect of a cold, hungry winter ahead are thinking enough is enough.

[Stairway 2 7]

People said there is no money for the Scottish Gov to offer more, but it appears there was. Unions will put flat £1950 to workers. Well bellow inflation for most, but far better than they were offered.

Edinburgh bin strike to pause tomorrow but continue in 19 other councils

[ronaldo7]

People said there is no money for the Scottish Gov to offer more, but it appears there was. Unions will put flat £1950 to workers. Well bellow inflation for most, but far better than they were offered.

Edinburgh bin strike to pause tomorrow but continue in 19 other councils

How much more has the SG put in?

[Stairway 2 7]

How much more has the SG put in?

We'll find out in due course I'd bet but it will be significant as covering every council.

[ronaldo7]

We'll find out in due course I'd bet but it will be significant as covering every council.

Oh ok. I thought you had some inside info. 😂

[Stairway 2 7]

Oh ok. I thought you had some inside info. 😂

It will need to be over 100 mil even with quick math's. I'm sure they will find that through cuts in things they didn't want to. Thing is it will now need to be found every year.

I noticed over the weekend the Tory rags had articles attacking the rumours snp will increase the highest tax band. Its utterly mental they have been attacking snp for the mess and not making a deal. Then look to be trying to attack government idea of highest paid paying for it

[Stairway 2 7]

@UniteScotland
·
3m
Workers in Edinburgh rallied outside the City Chambers today to mark the first wave of strikes, but this dispute is far from over.

Unless they get an offer Local Authority workers deserve, Edinburgh will be joined by 19 other Councils to take further action from September 6th

https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2022/august/unite-announces-strike-action-set-to-spread-across-20-councils/

[Lendo]

So the latest offer has been rejected.

Bin men in London due to strike soon. They asked for 10% and were offered 9.9%. Rejected.

Edit. Up here Unison are putting this offer to a vote but are recommending their members vote to reject it outright.

[Stairway 2 7]

So the latest offer has been rejected.

Bin men in London due to strike soon. They asked for 10% and were offered 9.9%. Rejected.

Edit. Up here Unison are putting this offer to a vote but are recommending their members vote to reject it outright.

That was the daily mails witty headline. Rejecting 9.9% it was of course nonsense. It was tapered starting at 7%. Some would only get £850 increase

[Stairway 2 7]

Article on the latest deal. The headline says £1950 offer but this wouldn't all be a wage increase like down south but a one off payment.

[Stairway 2 7]

UniteScotland
NEW: Unite's Local Authority Committee have voted to reject the new COSLA pay offer outright, as it continues to disproportionately hit the lowest paid

https://unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2022/august/unite-rejects-outright-new-cosla-offer/…

[Lendo]

UniteScotland
NEW: Unite's Local Authority Committee have voted to reject the new COSLA pay offer outright, as it continues to disproportionately hit the lowest paid

https://unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2022/august/unite-rejects-outright-new-cosla-offer/…

Getting a 404 on that link. Looks like they’ve deleted it. Maybe released it prematurely before members actually vote?

[silverhibee]

Had a wee drive through Gorgie today, yes it’s normally a dump but ffs it is bogging and smelling, rubbish everywhere, and yet pass the zoo and there is 2 buckets on the main road, 1at the zoo, looked empty, 2nd one outside Holiday inn with some rubbish poking out but certainly not overflowing, I will take a wild guess and say zoo staff are tidying up out side and picking rubbish up, take the zoo has a incinerator. .

Do we just have all buckets out tomorrow and hope they get picked up before next strike or put out on days they normally get picked up and prey. :greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

Getting a 404 on that link. Looks like they’ve deleted it. Maybe released it prematurely before members actually vote?

https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2022/august/unite-rejects-outright-new-cosla-offer/

[lapsedhibee]

Do we just have all buckets out tomorrow and hope they get picked up before next strike or put out on days they normally get picked up and prey. :greengrin

Normal days except glass (don't put that out at all yet).

https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/binstrike?fbclid=IwAR20vz1VtZlCtQPh-Yg9T37Cw8IVN6uiqgRj5-at25OtKmMbOx5I7gnS7y4

[B.H.F.C]

I wonder how effective the strikes will be, and how much public support there is likely to be for striking workers right now though?

Most folk are probably, rightly or wrongly, more worried about their own "cost of living" situation at the moment and I think there's an acceptance that there's going to be a bit less to go round for a while.

Therefore I wonder how much sympathy there is likely to be for the binmen, the teachers, the doctors or whoever who are holding out for pay rises higher than the average taxpayer might be set to receive?

(That's a generalisation, without comment on the individual merits of each group of striking workers' situation.)

I reckon we’re getting close to the point where sympathy will be in shorter supply. Probably once the schools are closed and it impacts on peoples ability to do their own jobs and earn because they don’t have childcare and that type of thing.

Plus, as you say, there are a hell of a lot of folk out there who have no prospect of any pay rise to help see them through what is going on just now.

[Ged]

When is the strike in Edinburgh due to end? Wasn't it meant to be for 12 days?

[Stairway 2 7]

When is the strike in Edinburgh due to end? Wasn't it meant to be for 12 days?

Tomorrow, continuing in the other Councils. Will resume next month

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/environment/edinburgh-bin-strikes-bin-strikes-set-to-continue-across-scotland-as-unions-reject-latest-pay-offer-3823270

One of payments aren't any good as inflation isn't going to go negative, so this year's problem will be next years

A pity COSLA don't work for the benefit of the government rather than the government

[Stairway 2 7]

What a tit. Green councillor tweets he and his fellow Green and snp councillors, attended a meeting yesterday virtually instead of going in and crossing picket line. It's pointed out to him that he worked got paid and virtually crossed the picket line. Virtue signaling

https://mobile.twitter.com/CllrChasBooth/status/1564287864380211202

[danhibees1875]

Tomorrow, continuing in the other Councils. Will resume next month

6th to 13th.

Hopefully the council then swaps round the collection rota, otherwise my general waste will have gone from 11th August until 22nd September without a pickup.

[He's here!]

What a tit. Green councillor tweets he and his fellow Green and snp councillors, attended a meeting yesterday virtually instead of going in and crossing picket line. It's pointed out to him that he worked got paid and virtually crossed the picket line. Virtue signaling

https://mobile.twitter.com/CllrChasBooth/status/1564287864380211202

Utter dimwits.

[grunt]

6th to 13th.

Hopefully the council then swaps round the collection rota, otherwise my general waste will have gone from 11th August until 22nd September without a pickup.

6th to 15th. Which is a pest because it takes in some days from the second week, meaning a longer time without collections.


We're expecting the trade unions to call another strike between 5am on 6 September and 4.59am on 15 September. If this second strike goes ahead, there will be no bin collections or street cleaning during that time.

[Just Alf]

What a tit. Green councillor tweets he and his fellow Green and snp councillors, attended a meeting yesterday virtually instead of going in and crossing picket line. It's pointed out to him that he worked got paid and virtually crossed the picket line. Virtue signaling

https://mobile.twitter.com/CllrChasBooth/status/1564287864380211202Donkey springs to mind.... its surely a bit like physically sneaking in the side door!!

[degenerated]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/environment/edinburgh-bin-strikes-bin-strikes-set-to-continue-across-scotland-as-unions-reject-latest-pay-offer-3823270

One of payments aren't any good as inflation isn't going to go negative, so this year's problem will be next years

A pity COSLA don't work for the benefit of the government rather than the governmentCouldn't Edinburgh Council use some of their reserves. They have nearly a 1/4 billion in cash reserves and at least 25 million of that general fund is unallocated.

[overdrive]

What a tit. Green councillor tweets he and his fellow Green and snp councillors, attended a meeting yesterday virtually instead of going in and crossing picket line. It's pointed out to him that he worked got paid and virtually crossed the picket line. Virtue signaling

https://mobile.twitter.com/CllrChasBooth/status/1564287864380211202

I've found him a most unhelpful person to deal with in the past. Glad he's not my Councillor anymore.

[Stairway 2 7]

Couldn't Edinburgh Council use some of their reserves. They have nearly a 1/4 billion in cash reserves and at least 25 million of that general fund is unallocated.

Cosla scot gov will have to offer it across the board. It isn't about one council it's most of them

[degenerated]

Cosla scot gov will have to offer it across the board. It isn't about one council it's most of themWhat reserves have other councils got?

I'm just being lazy and can't be erased reading through other councils finance reports, Edinburgh's was enough to bore the arse of you.

[Stairway 2 7]

What reserves have other councils got?

I'm just being lazy and can't be erased reading through other councils finance reports, Edinburgh's was enough to bore the arse of you.

Guess it will be mixed, but it will have to be ongoing increase in funds also.

[degenerated]

Guess it will be mixed, but it will have to be ongoing increase in funds also.The point I was making is that it's easy to demand the Scottish government, with a fixed budget, throws more money at the councils but a quick look on my local council shows they have 25 million in bunce.

Midlothian council were able to lend money to Croydon borough council, only a couple of years ago. So they must have money kicking about.

[Stairway 2 7]

The point I was making is that it's easy to demand the Scottish government, with a fixed budget, throws more money at the councils but a quick look on my local council shows they have 25 million in bunce.

Midlothian council were able to lend money to Croydon borough council, only a couple of years ago. So they must have money kicking about.

It's not a separate council issue it's nationwide. COSLA will be handing out the money received from scot gov across the board. They won't be taking separate deals, it's solidarity from the local unions to all Scottish council workers. Some councils might have money some might not, whether that's lab Edinburgh or snp Glasgow.

As seen here

@UniteScotland
·
Aug 29
NEW: Unite's Local Authority Committee have voted to reject the new COSLA pay offer outright, as it continues to disproportionately hit the lowest paid

[Stairway 2 7]

As they say, one council can't stop it

Unite CEC Branch
@UniteCECbranch
Misinformation on #edinburghbinstrikes today is rife.

Strike is a national dispute—one council can’t stop it. 14 more councils tomorrow.

Local gov funding has been slashed for a decade.

Idea that 5% definitely would have stopped this is a fantasy. An insulting one at that

[degenerated]

It's not a separate council issue it's nationwide. COSLA will be handing out the money received from scot gov across the board. They won't be taking separate deals, it's solidarity from the local unions to all Scottish council workers. Some councils might have money some might not, whether that's lab Edinburgh or snp Glasgow.

As seen here

@UniteScotland
·
Aug 29
NEW: Unite's Local Authority Committee have voted to reject the new COSLA pay offer outright, as it continues to disproportionately hit the lowest paidYou said on here it was because the council tax was frozen, that's surely a council issue.

Regardless of whether or not they won't be taking separate deals they are employees of councils. The councils need to find the money. Whether that's through Scottish government additional funding, COSLA or their own reserves.

[Stairway 2 7]

You said on here it was because the council tax was frozen, that's surely a council issue.

Regardless of whether or not they won't be taking separate deals they are employees of councils. The councils need to find the money. Whether that's through Scottish government additional funding, COSLA or their own reserves.

The Scottish Gov froze the council tax. If they hadn't for a decade there would be more for everyone.

Don't get the second bit. They money obviously will have to come from scot gov. They said they didn't have more last week, then found 200 mil this week. It's not ideal having to cut but needs must. Next year and onwards it can come from tax rises, as they are about to propose apparently

[grunt]

The Scottish Gov froze the council tax. If they hadn't for a decade there would be more for everyone.
Unbearably simplistic view of an inherently complex issue.

[Stairway 2 7]

Unbearably simplistic view of an inherently complex issue.

No really populist policy. The top 20% didn't need it frozen especially when councils have been receiving less. It needs reform and scot gov have had the time

[degenerated]

The Scottish Gov froze the council tax. If they hadn't for a decade there would be more for everyone.

Don't get the second bit. They money obviously will have to come from scot gov. They said they didn't have more last week, then found 200 mil this week. It's not ideal having to cut but needs must. Next year and onwards it can come from tax rises, as they are about to propose apparentlyThe council tax was frozen in Edinburgh and they are sitting on a cash reserve of £250,000,000, of which £25,000,000 is bunce.

The council tax was frozen in Midlothian yet they were able to lend £13,000,000 to Croydon borough council.

Both these councils claim that they didn't have enough money to give their employees decent pay rises and needed more from the Scottish government.

I would suggest that both these councils had more than enough money to make more generous offers than they clearly have. Now, I don't know about other councils but it would be interesting to see how their finances stack up -!whether they be SNP, labour, Tory councils.

[Stairway 2 7]

The council tax was frozen in Edinburgh and they are sitting on a cash reserve of £250,000,000, of which £25,000,000 is bunce.

The council tax was frozen in Midlothian yet they were able to lend £13,000,000 to Croydon borough council.

Both these councils claim that they didn't have enough money to give their employees decent pay rises and needed more from the Scottish government.

I would suggest that both these councils had more than enough money to make more generous offers than they clearly have. Now, I don't know about other councils but it would be interesting to see how their finances stack up -!whether they be SNP, labour, Tory councils.

It's not a single council issue... if one can't afford it the point is null. I'm sure the unions and scot gov knows who knows what is available. Scot gov wouldn't have found 350 mil if the councils had it sitting there.

[Mibbes Aye]

The council tax was frozen in Edinburgh and they are sitting on a cash reserve of £250,000,000, of which £25,000,000 is bunce.

The council tax was frozen in Midlothian yet they were able to lend £13,000,000 to Croydon borough council.

Both these councils claim that they didn't have enough money to give their employees decent pay rises and needed more from the Scottish government.

I would suggest that both these councils had more than enough money to make more generous offers than they clearly have. Now, I don't know about other councils but it would be interesting to see how their finances stack up -!whether they be SNP, labour, Tory councils.

Local authority reserves are not intended to cover ongoing pay rises.

Using capital monies to fund revenue budgets is stupidity, bordering on malpractice.

[Mibbes Aye]

Unbearably simplistic view of an inherently complex issue.

If you want complexity, here's complexity.

The council tax freeze was sraight out of the Tory playbook, a bribe for middle-earners that also benefitted the well-off. It did very little for the poorer who already got relief and did nothing for the poorest, who were exempt.

So, a policy imposed that didn't benefit the poorest but did benefit the better-off.

Councils were instructed to impose the freeze. If they didn't, and exercised a bit of democratic localism and increased it, then Holyrood said it would reduce their block grant and by more than the local authority could easily pull back in through increased council tax.

With me so far? Politically it was smart, from an inequalities point of view it was brutal.

Here's the added kick in the balls for the poor though.

Local authorities had to reduce their funding because the money SG gave them as 'compensation' wasn't enough to make up for demands in social care and education - the two big areas of council spend and two that are pretty much ring-fenced by comparison to others.

So the axe fell on all the other council services, disproportionately. Things like literacy clsses, libraries, leisure centres, subsidies for community police patrolling and bus routes, etc etc

They were cut because there needed to be cuts and because they were not ring-fenced. And who gets hit hardest by these cuts? The poor and less well-off.

The poor who benefit from adult literacy classes, so they can better access the job market.
The poor who relied on libraries offerig internet, because they couldn't afford a broadband package at home, all while access to benefits and supports were being digitised.
The poor who couldn't afford a fancy gym membership but used the equipment and classes at the council leisure centre to try and staay healthier, especially in older age.
The poor who didn't have a car and needed a bus to get to the shops or to visit a relative in hospital or attend out-patients.
And the poor who through no fault of their own felt unsafe at home and in their communities because of the scale of anti-social behaviour and lower-level crime.

That's just some of the inherent complexity of your council tax freeze for you.

[silverhibee]

Take it is the city centre clean up first then get to the council estates later on, good that they get the city centre nice and clean for the tourists but the folk who pay for this have rats running about in schemes around Edinburgh, as was seen in Drylaw today, what a f***ing mess it is in at the shops.

[grunt]

That's just some of the inherent complexity of your council tax freeze for you.

Sounds terrible. So why did they do it then?

Also, if I may say so, this reads a bit like a pre-prepared polemic. Is it taken from somewhere?

[grunt]

Take it is the city centre clean up first then get to the council estates later on ...

They're going back to the scheduled bin pickups aren't they? We've got our bins out for tomorrow.