Midfield

[MagicSwirlingShip]

Another Monday post Hibs defeat, another Newell is ok honest defence.

Absolute charlatan. To think of the great men from near and far that have captained our club, Hunter, Yogi, Sauzee, Brebner, Murray, Jones, Gray , McGregor, Hanlon.

That’s just since I’ve been watching. What must King Pat think of this guy. He doesn’t even measure up to the worst. By all accounts a lovely guy but not a captain in a million years.

Another big contract and the latest in line who show up in body every week but offer not much else. I’d bench him next week, and the week after that, and the week after that. Until he realises he needs to be the best version of himself every week. Anything less than 100% effort from our captain just spreads his far too regular malaise throughout the squad.

If Gray wants this to work out he needs to get ruthless, and fast.

Fully expecting this post to be torn apart but I’m done with him.

[MWHIBBIES]

Another Monday post Hibs defeat, another Newell is ok honest defence.

Absolute charlatan. To think of the great men from near and far that have captained our club, Hunter, Yogi, Sauzee, Brebner, Murray, Jones, Gray , McGregor, Hanlon.

That’s just since I’ve been watching. What must King Pat think of this guy. He doesn’t even measure up to the worst. By all accounts a lovely guy but not a captain in a million years.

Another big contract and the latest in line who show up in body every week but offer not much else. I’d bench him next week, and the week after that, and the week after that. Until he realises he needs to be the best version of himself every week. Anything less than 100% effort from our captain just spreads his far too regular malaise throughout the squad.

If Gray wants this to work out he needs to get ruthless, and fast.

Fully expecting this post to be torn apart but I’m done with him.

Gray, one of those men, picked Newell. A better judge than you I think.

No Hibs player in our history has ever been the best version of themselves every week.



I’m sure you were saying after the game last week that NMW and Campbell were both poor and Newell was playing in there himself. Now you’re saying the midfield competed well?

First half we did, yes. I don't think either midfield was great. The idea they ran over us in midfield is total nonsense IMO.

NMW was poor for the majority of the game tbh. Campbell started okay, then reverted to his usual self.

[Iain G]

Another Monday post Hibs defeat, another Newell is ok honest defence.

Absolute charlatan. To think of the great men from near and far that have captained our club, Hunter, Yogi, Sauzee, Brebner, Murray, Jones, Gray , McGregor, Hanlon.

That’s just since I’ve been watching. What must King Pat think of this guy. He doesn’t even measure up to the worst. By all accounts a lovely guy but not a captain in a million years.

Another big contract and the latest in line who show up in body every week but offer not much else. I’d bench him next week, and the week after that, and the week after that. Until he realises he needs to be the best version of himself every week. Anything less than 100% effort from our captain just spreads his far too regular malaise throughout the squad.

If Gray wants this to work out he needs to get ruthless, and fast.

Fully expecting this post to be torn apart but I’m done with him.

Brebner! Now I know you are taking the piss 🤣

[MWHIBBIES]

Brebner! Now I know you are taking the piss 🤣

Brebner who we released due to gambling issues.
Murray left on a free for the Huns
Gray 3 years in the championship
Yogi relegated
Hunter about 100 losses to Hearts

There is no perfect Hibs captain.

[Since90+2]

Brebner who we released due to gambling issues.
Murray left on a free for the Huns
Gray 3 years in the championship
Yogi relegated
Hunter about 100 losses to Hearts

There is no perfect Hibs captain.

Gambling addiction is an illness. Not sure it's something to be using against the guy tbh.

[Hiber-nation]

Brebner! Now I know you are taking the piss 🤣

I can barely even remember Grant captaining us!

[theonlywayisup]

Brebner who we released due to gambling issues.
Murray left on a free for the Huns
Gray 3 years in the championship
Yogi relegated
Hunter about 100 losses to Hearts

There is no perfect Hibs captain.

Time can do odd things to the memory!

Focusing on the present, the midfield we've had since the early part of season 21/22 has been IMO the worst I've seen for a long time. Well documented by many, lacking creativity, lacking drive and an inability to protect the defence. Joe Newell has been a key component of an ineffective midfield and needs replaced, Captain or not.

He's had good games, he's had great games for Hibs, but I've had enough of his sideways and backwards passing. He's too slow in driving our team forward and looks to me that he runs out of energy often in games. Many refer to him going missing, which is not great for our Captain.

[MagicSwirlingShip]

I can barely even remember Grant captaining us!

Was Hibs captain when the golden generation broke through. Scored in a 2-1 win at Home versus O’Neills Celtic.

Not perfect but gave his all on the pitch

[MagicSwirlingShip]

Brebner who we released due to gambling issues.
Murray left on a free for the Huns
Gray 3 years in the championship
Yogi relegated
Hunter about 100 losses to Hearts

There is no perfect Hibs captain.

I’d have every single one over Newell as Hibs captain. He doesn’t lace any of the above boots

[blackpoolhibs]

"Still learning about the players"

That quote alone is all I need to know about where we're heading this season.

David, if you don't know by now, then you never will.


I think that shows exactly why he shouldn’t have been appointed manager to be brutally honest. Especially after MM gushing about his interview for the job and knowing the players ! Utter **** show to be frank.
:agree:

[WestStandWillie]

"Still learning about the players"

That quote alone is all I need to know about where we're heading this season.

David, if you don't know by now, then you never will.

I took that to mean the new players. He was perhaps a bit flustered as he said pre match that he hoped to wrong the rights of last weekend. Not going to beat him for saying that.

[The Modfather]

What kind of player is Kwon? A defensive midfielder, but a destroyer? More technical? Bit of both?

I’d like to see a midfield of:

Kwon
New midfielder (McCowan)
Molotnikov

[Smartie]

What kind of player is Kwon? A defensive midfielder, but a destroyer? More technical? Bit of both?

I’d like to see a midfield of:

Kwon
New midfielder (McCowan)
Molotnikov

As a primarily defensive player, does the signing of Kwon potentially allow us to get more out of our existing players?

We finished 3rd the year Newell had Gogic helping him out etc…

I’ve been really impressed by Sylla at Dundee in recent weeks… who does ugly stuff that allows other, more positive players to shine.

Kwon sitting, Newell and Rudi in more advanced roles etc?

[B.H.F.C]

Pretty sure Kwon will come in as a first name in the team sheet type signing. We’ve signed about 45 midfielders but I think he’ll have a specific role that we’re looking for him to play rather than trying to fit him in here or there.

Whether anyone likes him Newell or not he’s going to be one of the other three. It’ll be the two of them and one other.

[raeburnhibs]

Pretty sure Kwon will come in as a first name in the team sheet type signing. We’ve signed about 45 midfielders but I think he’ll have a specific role that we’re looking for him to play rather than trying to fit him in here or there.

Whether anyone likes him Newell or not he’s going to be one of the other three. It’ll be the two of them and one other.

Probably he starts and hopefully he is as good as some are suggesting, But, he only played 9 times last season for St Mirren and Celtic fans pretty much don't think he is at their level. Clearly their level is very different to ours and he may make a difference to us at our level. He is an interesting signing signed to address a clear deficiency in our team, but I'm going to wait and see over a few games....

[The Modfather]

As a primarily defensive player, does the signing of Kwon potentially allow us to get more out of our existing players?

We finished 3rd the year Newell had Gigi’s helping him out etc…

I’ve been really impressed by Sylla at Dundee in recent weeks… who does ugly stuff that allows other, more positive players to shine.

Kwon sitting, Newell and Rudi in more advanced roles etc?

It’s a fair question. Though if I was Gray I’m not sure I’d bet my job on Kwon being the player knit Newell & Molotnikov together. One is a youngster finding his way in the game and Newell is Newell.

I know Gogic was a good foil for getting more out of Newell. However it’s easy to forget that season also saw the games out of the blue where the whole team failed to turn up. No one could reverse the flow of the game or stop opposition midfields running over the top of us. It was quite bizarre as it would come on the back of good form.

I don’t think Newell is athletic enough or has the natural drive to play that box to box role, which for me is the key role inbetween the 6 & the 10. He also has a bad habit of dropping deep and playing beside someone like a Jeggo when it’s not needed, and large parts of the game drift by as a result. In the interest of fairness I’ve never really seen him a natural fit for any of the 6,8 or 10 positions. Sitting somewhere between a 6 & an 8 without ever being either. Does that make him a 7?

[Gordy M]

Probably he starts and hopefully he is as good as some are suggesting, But, he only played 9 times last season for St Mirren and Celtic fans pretty much don't think he is at their level. Clearly their level is very different to ours and he may make a difference to us at our level. He is an interesting signing signed to address a clear deficiency in our team, but I'm going to wait and see over a few games....

I think he got injured whilst at St Mirren, hence only 9 matches. One of their best players when he played i seem to recall.

[CapitalGreen]

As a primarily defensive player, does the signing of Kwon potentially allow us to get more out of our existing players?

We finished 3rd the year Newell had Gogic helping him out etc…

I’ve been really impressed by Sylla at Dundee in recent weeks… who does ugly stuff that allows other, more positive players to shine.

Kwon sitting, Newell and Rudi in more advanced roles etc?


It may solve some of our problems out of possession but if Newell remains our primary playmaker then the same age-old issues will remain when we have possession.

[GreenCastle]

What kind of player is Kwon? A defensive midfielder, but a destroyer? More technical? Bit of both?

I’d like to see a midfield of:

Kwon
New midfielder (McCowan)
Molotnikov

Hopefully this link works…

https://x.com/kntfootball/status/1761854337205047641?s=46

[Dashing Bob S]

Pretty sure Kwon will come in as a first name in the team sheet type signing. We’ve signed about 45 midfielders but I think he’ll have a specific role that we’re looking for him to play rather than trying to fit him in here or there.

Whether anyone likes him Newell or not he’s going to be one of the other three. It’ll be the two of them and one other.

Depends on who else they sign. If they get McCowan I think Newell is a squad player.

[JohnM1875]

Depends on who else they sign. If they get McCowan I think Newell is a squad player.

Just can't see it. Midfield will be Kwon, Newell and McCowan. Don't think it would be my preferred three, but think that's what Gray will go with.

[B.H.F.C]

Depends on who else they sign. If they get McCowan I think Newell is a squad player.

Don’t see it. I’d like it to be the case but you don’t give someone a new contract, make them club captain then have them sitting on the bench regularly within a matter of weeks.

[blackpoolhibs]

I cant remember watching Kwon, but it appears he plays as a defensive midfielder, a number 6 as it now seems to be known.

Is that not what Newell does now, as he's certainly the deepest midfielder that i can see, playing between the centre halves a lot and taking the ball from them more than any other player?

[Trinity Hibee]

I cant remember watching Kwon, but it appears he plays as a defensive midfielder, a number 6 as it now seems to be known.

Is that not what Newell does now, as he's certainly the deepest midfielder that i can see, playing between the centre halves a lot and taking the ball from them more than any other player?

Levitt and NMW have been playing the defensive mid role but neither are good enough for that position. Kwon should be a big improvement for us

[Brightside]

I cant remember watching Kwon, but it appears he plays as a defensive midfielder, a number 6 as it now seems to be known.

Is that not what Newell does now, as he's certainly the deepest midfielder that i can see, playing between the centre halves a lot and taking the ball from them more than any other player?

All 3 of our midfield played there at the weekend, and not one of them wanted the ball.

[blackpoolhibs]

All 3 of our midfield played there at the weekend, and not one of them wanted the ball.

I had no idea where our midfield were on Sunday, but normally it's Newell who is supposed to be that DM and it's seems that Kwon does that job too.

Does that mean Newell plays somewhere else (hopefully Falkirk) :wink: or further forward where he will hopefully be better, or with McCowan coming in:pray: dropped?

[hibsbollah]

I had no idea where our midfield were on Sunday, but normally it's Newell who is supposed to be that DM and it's seems that Kwon does that job too.

Does that mean Newell plays somewhere else (hopefully Falkirk) :wink: or further forward where he will hopefully be better, or with McCowan coming in:pray: dropped?

Newell AND NMW were both DMs against St Mirren. Maybe Kwon moves into Newells position and Newell moves into Campbells further up? Thats what id do. Assuming Gray wants two defensive midfielders moving forward.

[blackpoolhibs]

Newell AND NMW were both DMs against St Mirren. Maybe Kwon moves into Newells position and Newell moves into Campbells further up? Thats what id do. Assuming Gray wants two defensive midfielders moving forward.

Do you think we need 2 DMs against St Mirren?

Maybe against Celtic perhaps, but a club of our standing should be on the front foot agaist every club bar the obvious 2, with slight tweaks against the gimps.

Newell is an enigma, i just dont see him further forward being anywhere near consistant enough for a player we would want to be creative and maybe score a few too.

[hibsbollah]

Do you think we need 2 DMs against St Mirren?

Maybe against Celtic perhaps, but a club of our standing should be on the front foot agaist every club bar the obvious 2, with slight tweaks against the gimps.

Newell is an enigma, i just dont see him further forward being anywhere near consistant enough for a player we would want to be creative and maybe score a few too.

I don’t think we need 2 holding against St Mirren either, i don’t particularly like the setup, whether thats down to Mackay or Gray we dont know. But they probably thought we needed stability in the current climate. Newell is best further forwards, i know you don’t rate him anywhere, youve been very consistent on that.

We havent signed mcgowan yet, but Kwon holding, Newell and McGowan as part of a three, with Rudi and Boyle (if he pulls his finger out) supporting Bowie is what im guessing they do as first choice for the next wee while. Moriah Welsh maybe in for Rudi for Celtic.

[Brightside]

I had no idea where our midfield were on Sunday, but normally it's Newell who is supposed to be that DM and it's seems that Kwon does that job too.

Does that mean Newell plays somewhere else (hopefully Falkirk) :wink: or further forward where he will hopefully be better, or with McCowan coming in:pray: dropped?

They kept rotating during the game. Which they aren't good enough to do. Levitt looked lost as a 10. (The place many people wanted him to play), we already know Campbell can't play DM. But they old moved into those areas at some point. Kwon is an out and out DM. If we don't have him just playing that role qns should be asked. Mccowan comes in at 8 for me, and if fit at the moment id have Rudi as 10. I wouldn't be surprised if we got a Bournemouth player for the 10 role at the end of the window.

[Smartie]

They kept rotating during the game. Which they aren't good enough to do. Levitt looked lost as a 10. (The place many people wanted him to play), we already know Campbell can't play DM. But they old moved into those areas at some point. Kwon is an out and out DM. If we don't have him just playing that role qns should be asked. Mccowan comes in at 8 for me, and if fit at the moment id have Rudi as 10. I wouldn't be surprised if we got a Bournemouth player for the 10 role at the end of the window.

Not disagreeing with this - but I'm not sure a solitary game against Celtic is the best thing to be judging him on there. Pretty sure we did similar with McKirdy - started him at Parkhead, gave him very few other opportunities then wrote him off.

Playing NMW against St Mirren then Levitt against Celtic was odd.

I'd have been up for giving Levitt a run in the 10 position against a weaker team, maybe even in the league cup, but now we've bulked the squad up a bit further he's dropping down the pecking order for that position too.

[hibsbollah]

Playing NMW against St Mirren then Levitt against Celtic was odd.

.

Absolutely. Id like anyone to be the devils advocate here and explain to me how this made sense.

[MagicSwirlingShip]

Absolutely. Id like anyone to be the devils advocate here and explain to me how this made sense.

Gray explained on the radio that he picked Levitt because he is good at retaining the ball in possession

[BoomtownHibees]

Gray explained on the radio that he picked Levitt because he is good at retaining the ball in possession

That would make sense if he played him in his usual deeper role, he couldn’t get on the ball playing in the 10

[The Modfather]

Absolutely. Id like anyone to be the devils advocate here and explain to me how this made sense.

Grays blind spot for Campbell and Newell. With NMW & Levit the interchangeable 3rd midfielder that will carry the can for the whole midfield being poor.

The first two games of the season probably opened Grays eyes to Campbell. I still suspect we’ll see Newell continue as an undropable though however he is playing.

[hibsbollah]

Gray explained on the radio that he picked Levitt because he is good at retaining the ball in possession

As said above, ball retention is a lot more difficult in congested areas where the 10 plays, but more importantly Levitt is so weak without the ball, and against Celtic thats 75%~80% of the game.

Id also question the central rationale; Levitt is streaky in possession, some great line break passes one minute then he smashes it out of play the next.

[JimBHibees]

Not disagreeing with this - but I'm not sure a solitary game against Celtic is the best thing to be judging him on there. Pretty sure we did similar with McKirdy - started him at Parkhead, gave him very few other opportunities then wrote him off.

Playing NMW against St Mirren then Levitt against Celtic was odd.

I'd have been up for giving Levitt a run in the 10 position against a weaker team, maybe even in the league cup, but now we've bulked the squad up a bit further he's dropping down the pecking order for that position too.

Think that is fair

[Tyler Durden]

As said above, ball retention is a lot more difficult in congested areas where the 10 plays, but more importantly Levitt is so weak without the ball, and against Celtic thats 75%~80% of the game.

Id also question the central rationale; Levitt is streaky in possession, some great line break passes one minute then he smashes it out of play the next.

Re his streaky passing, Sunday was a prime example. In the first half Levitt had the ball in space with Boyle running in behind. Should not have been a difficult pass to play it in behind and into the space. Levitt underhit it and Taylor heads clear.

He is an enigma, clearly has technical ability but doesn’t deliver and can’t get around the park. Maybe going to the US or Oz would suit him

[GreenCastle]

Newell kicked a simple free kick straight out 1st half then over hit a ball into the east stand also.

Some of our passing was really poor.

Then we had moments like Obita heading it out for a corner with limited pressure 2nd half.

Giving away fouls at our corners at free kicks - letting Celtic off the hook.

The basics at times were really poor.

[MagicSwirlingShip]

As said above, ball retention is a lot more difficult in congested areas where the 10 plays, but more importantly Levitt is so weak without the ball, and against Celtic thats 75%~80% of the game.

Id also question the central rationale; Levitt is streaky in possession, some great line break passes one minute then he smashes it out of play the next.

I’ve been thinking about this a bit, and from my own feelings I think there may have been some consequences from the St Mirren performance at hand aswell. ie Moriah Welsh dropped for not hitting the required standard

[hibsbollah]

I’ve been thinking about this a bit, and from my own feelings I think there may have been some consequences from the St Mirren performance at hand aswell. ie Moriah Welsh dropped for not hitting the required standard

I think this might be close to the truth, MW has a poor game against St Mirren, so Gray drops him for the next game but which also happens to be against Celtic, where the one thing you always need is someone to protect the back four. Dropping someone after one bad game is fine if you have a deep, high quality squad, but we don’t. Its also the kind of role that Amos was supposed to be able to do. Where is he? Is his knee only 75% or something? Is he rubbish in training? Its really frustrating not to see more of this guy.

[CapitalGreen]

I think this might be close to the truth, MW has a poor game against St Mirren, so Gray drops him for the next game but which also happens to be against Celtic, where the one thing you always need is someone to protect the back four. Dropping someone after one bad game is fine if you have a deep, high quality squad, but we don’t. It’s also the kind of role that Amos was supposed to be able to do. Where is he? Is his knee only 75% or something? Is he rubbish in training? It’s really frustrating not to see more of this guy.

Does MW protect the back 4 though? He’s poor in the tackle and regularly allows runners to go past him. Our results with Newell and NMW paired in midfield are as bad as any another combination over the last few years.

[Exuberance1875]

Brebner! Now I know you are taking the piss 🤣

Grant Brebner was a good Hibs player and a good captain

[supermcginn]

Grant Brebner was a good Hibs player and a good captain

He was indeed, cracking player and streets ahead of our current midfield.

[hibsbollah]

Does MW protect the back 4 though? He’s poor in the tackle and regularly allows runners to go past him. Our results with Newell and NMW paired in midfield are as bad as any another combination over the last few years.

Whether you like him or not, hes our CDM, so thats his job, and as far as i can see thats been his job so far in his career. Hes had what, 15 games for us? But the signs seem promising to me. When you drop a defensive minded plsyer you need a similar replacement or a good alternative strategy.

[JohnM1875]

Whether you like him or not, hes our CDM, so thats his job, and as far as i can see thats been his job so far in his career. Hes had what, 15 games for us? But the signs seem promising to me. When you drop a defensive minded plsyer you need a similar replacement or a good alternative strategy.

Kwon, NMW and McCowan would be my preferred three. Think that's a great balance and NMW will only improve the more he plays and gets used to the league.

[Fergus52]

Kwon, NMW and McCowan would be my preferred three. Think that's a great balance and NMW will only improve the more he plays and gets used to the league.

Newell's started the season poor, but he still looks miles ahead of NMW imo, I'd like a midfield that can actually keep the ball.

NMW is also slightltbmore similar to McCowan than Newell, so think it will be Kwon, McCowan Newell as the starting 3

[Lago]

Grant Brebner was a good Hibs player and a good captain
Yip, ran his heart out, oh for his quality now.

[JohnM1875]

Newell's started the season poor, but he still looks miles ahead of NMW imo, I'd like a midfield that can actually keep the ball.

NMW is also slightltbmore similar to McCowan than Newell, so think it will be Kwon, McCowan Newell as the starting 3

Aw it absolutely will be Kwon, Newell and McCowan, don't doubt that. I just don't really like us playing two 6's, which we will if it's Kwon and Newell.

[hibsbollah]

Kwon, NMW and McCowan would be my preferred three. Think that's a great balance and NMW will only improve the more he plays and gets used to the league.

Are you not a bit concerned that everyones talking like McGowans a done deal? Theres nothing official, no positive sounds from dundee or the player. This could end up being a non-signing and another excuse for increased negativity and alround misery :boo hoo:

[The Modfather]

Are you not a bit concerned that everyones talking like McGowans a done deal? Theres nothing official, no positive sounds from dundee or the player. This could end up being a non-signing and another excuse for increased negativity and alround misery :boo hoo:

If Hibs can’t get McCowan then they absolutely have to have a plan B. Even if that means keeping our money until we can get someone worth spending it on in January of next summer, and getting a quality box to box midfielder on loan.

If we ended up with only Kwon plus any 2 from Levit, Newell & Campbell nothing will change and we’ll probably still end up bottom 6 again IMO.

[CapitalGreen]

Newell's started the season poor, but he still looks miles ahead of NMW imo, I'd like a midfield that can actually keep the ball.

NMW is also slightltbmore similar to McCowan than Newell, so think it will be Kwon, McCowan Newell as the starting 3

Both Newell and McCowan are left footed and occupy the same areas of the pitch. I hope we aren’t going to spend big on McCowan and then play him in an unfavoured role to accommodate Newell. McCowan needs to be our primary playmaker if he comes in.

[MagicSwirlingShip]

Yip, ran his heart out, oh for his quality now.

Thanks, thought I was going a bit mad when I seen the reply discrediting Brebner. He was quality on loan before joining Reading, and a good Hibs captain that helped bring on some of our golden generation. A midfielder you could count on to put a shift in. Not hide for weeks in a row

[Tyler Durden]

Thanks, thought I was going a bit mad when I seen the reply discrediting Brebner. He was quality on loan before joining Reading, and a good Hibs captain that helped bring on some of our golden generation. A midfielder you could count on to put a shift in. Not hide for weeks in a row

He was actually moved on by Mowbray due to being a bad influence on our golden generation!

[Coco Bryce]

He was actually moved on by Mowbray due to being a bad influence on our golden generation!

He was a pure steamer. Used to meet him in Opal Lounge and he was always reekin.

Great guy though 👍🏻

[Tyler Durden]

Both Newell and McCowan are left footed and occupy the same areas of the pitch. I hope we aren’t going to spend big on McCowan and then play him in an unfavoured role to accommodate Newell. McCowan needs to be our primary playmaker if he comes in.

Their favoured foot isn’t really relevant. As it stands Newell is playing as Hibs deepest midfielder so he’s not occupying the position that McCowan would.

I’m sure Kwon will soon replace Newell in that role. But there’s no reason that McCowan and Newell couldn’t both play advanced of Kwon together.

I’d be delighted if we can replace all 3 of our midfield that started on Sunday of course but that seems unlikely

[Eyrie]

The solution would be 4-2-3-1 with Kwon and Newell deep and Boyle, McGowan and Bowie supporting Kuharevich.

[B.H.F.C]

Their favoured foot isn’t really relevant. As it stands Newell is playing as Hibs deepest midfielder so he’s not occupying the position that McCowan would.

I’m sure Kwon will soon replace Newell in that role. But there’s no reason that McCowan and Newell couldn’t both play advanced of Kwon together.

I’d be delighted if we can replace all 3 of our midfield that started on Sunday of course but that seems unlikely

In the case of Newell it’s a lot more than unlikely I’d say. He’s just signed a new deal and been made club captain, he will continue to play.

We just really need to hope that in a couple of months time nobody is talking about him being our best midfielder any more. If he is still
Seemed to be that, the same things will be happening.

[The Tubs]

In the case of Newell it’s a lot more than unlikely I’d say. He’s just signed a new deal and been made club captain, he will continue to play.

We just really need to hope that in a couple of months time nobody is talking about him being our best midfielder any more. If he is still
Seemed to be that, the same things will be happening.

It's not absolutely inevitable though. If there's enough competition, he could easily be benched or even out the club if we can find someone to take him. Was Brebner not captain in Mowbray's first games?

[B.H.F.C]

It's not absolutely inevitable though. If there's enough competition, he could easily be benched or even out the club if we can find someone to take him. Was Brebner not captain in Mowbray's first games?

I think he might have been but I don’t think the situations are comparable. He had some well reported issues and Mowbray wanted to move him on. I’ll be shocked if Newell is sitting on the bench regularly at any point this season.

[The Tubs]

I think he might have been but I don’t think the situations are comparable. He had some well reported issues and Mowbray wanted to move him on. I’ll be shocked if Newell is sitting on the bench regularly at any point this season.

I completely agree that it's unlikely and that their personalities are probably very different but in the end it's all about getting the best results and a good manager will do whatever is necessary to achieve that.

[CapitalGreen]

Their favoured foot isn’t really relevant. As it stands Newell is playing as Hibs deepest midfielder so he’s not occupying the position that McCowan would.

I’m sure Kwon will soon replace Newell in that role. But there’s no reason that McCowan and Newell couldn’t both play advanced of Kwon together.

I’d be delighted if we can replace all 3 of our midfield that started on Sunday of course but that seems unlikely

Favoured foot certainly is relevant when talking about playmakers as they will favour that side of the pitch. Both Newell and McCowan play predominantly in the left hand side of the pitch, in fact their heatmaps are very similar.

2810128102

[MagicSwirlingShip]

He was actually moved on by Mowbray due to being a bad influence on our golden generation!

He was frozen out before that due to the contract he was on. The golden generation broke through a while before Mowbray became manager, under Williamson. We had wins against Celtic, Rangers, and the Jambos with Brebner as captain. Would have him again as captain over Newell every day of the week

[Tyler Durden]

Favoured foot certainly is relevant when talking about playmakers as they will favour that side of the pitch. Both Newell and McCowan play predominantly in the left hand side of the pitch, in fact their heatmaps are very similar.

2810128102

They’ve both played similar roles yes. I don’t see any issue with either occupying the right centre role if they become team mates.

Unless we replace Newell (with a new signing) he would remain the best option to play alongside Kwon and McCowan, whichever way we configure it.

[MagicSwirlingShip]

Favoured foot certainly is relevant when talking about playmakers as they will favour that side of the pitch. Both Newell and McCowan play predominantly in the left hand side of the pitch, in fact their heatmaps are very similar.

2810128102

Similar areas of the pitch. How many assists and goals did each get last season?

[JohnM1875]

Similar areas of the pitch. How many assists and goals did each get last season?

Think you might be surprised. In all comps;

Newell - 49 games 4 goals 9 assists

McCowan - 41 games 10 goals 5 assists

So not too dissimilar.

McCowan off to flyer this season though! 6 games 3 goals and 4 assists whereas Newell has 1 assist.

[The Modfather]

Think you might be surprised. In all comps;

Newell - 49 games 4 goals 9 assists

McCowan - 41 games 10 goals 5 assists

So not too dissimilar.

Is there anywhere you can see a breakdown of goals and assists from open play v set pieces?

[Centre Hawf]

Think you might be surprised. In all comps;

Newell - 49 games 4 goals 9 assists

McCowan - 41 games 10 goals 5 assists

So not too dissimilar.

McCowan off to flyer this season though! 6 games 3 goals and 4 assists whereas Newell has 1 assist.

I think this probably highlights something that is true for a lot of fans in that they see the good end product but not all the work to get there. I've always said I quite like Newell, others clearly do not at all. But McCowans output is nearly identical (15 goal involvements to 14), they just do it in a different manner. McCowan for me doesn't replace Newell, if anything it would be a great addition to a midfield with Newell.

[JohnM1875]

Is there anywhere you can see a breakdown of goals and assists from open play v set pieces?

There probably is but I don't know of it, sorry.

Think all Newell’s goals are from open play, two class goals I can remember. Have to think a few of the assists at least will be from corners and free-kicks.

McCowan takes free-kicks and I'm sure pens for Dundee as well, so again, you’d imagine a few of his goals will be from that.

[CapitalGreen]

Is there anywhere you can see a breakdown of goals and assists from open play v set pieces?

McCowan - 5 & 5

Newell - 4 & 7

[JohnM1875]

I think this probably highlights something that is true for a lot of fans in that they see the good end product but not all the work to get there. I've always said I quite like Newell, others clearly do not at all. But McCowans output is nearly identical (15 goal involvements to 14), they just do it in a different manner. McCowan for me doesn't replace Newell, if anything it would be a great addition to a midfield with Newell.

Totally agree. Even if both players were to match that output for us this season that's almost 30 goal involvements from two midfielders.

[MWHIBBIES]

Incredible output for a deep midfielder from Newell. Had a good season in a ***** team last year.

[Fergus52]

Favoured foot certainly is relevant when talking about playmakers as they will favour that side of the pitch. Both Newell and McCowan play predominantly in the left hand side of the pitch, in fact their heatmaps are very similar.

2810128102

Are those heat maps for this season? If so that's a very small sample size.

From what I remember of McCowan last season he often played further forward for Dundee than Newell does for us, he was also more direct, faster, more of a runner off the ball and more of a goal threat. These are all attributes it appears Gray would like from his no. 10, based on his chat about Campbell. So I think if McCowan comes he will be playing there for us.

Think it would be Kwon and Newell as a double pivot with McCowan further forward.

Describing them both as playmakers is a bit reductive when they have differing, and complimentary, skillsets imo.

[Fergus52]

If you look at both of their 23/24, season long, heat maps on the links below, you can see that Newell had way more touches centrally in deeper positions, and McCowan had more centrally around the oppositions box.

https://www.sofascore.com/player/mccowan-luke/926363

https://www.sofascore.com/player/joe-newell/151059

[easty]

If you look at both of their 23/24, season long, heat maps on the links below, you can see that Newell had way more touches centrally in deeper positions, and McCowan had more centrally around the oppositions box.

https://www.sofascore.com/player/mccowan-luke/926363

https://www.sofascore.com/player/joe-newell/151059

It’s always been pretty obvious to me that Newell and McCowan are different types of midfielder. I’ve never really understood posters saying he’d replace Newell at all.

[Smartie]

It’s always been pretty obvious to me that Newell and McCowan are different types of midfielder. I’ve never really understood posters saying he’d replace Newell at all.

They're both left footed and I'm not sure McCowan is as attacking a player as many think (looks an all-rounder to me) and I reckon Newell has probably been playing deeper than he's most comfortable for Hibs in recent times (also naturally an all-rounder to me).

A bit like the thing we had a few years ago with the idea of Fontaine and Hanlon playing centre-back together - I don't think we'd have an issue with 2 right footed players playing in the midfield together but something feels a bit weird to me about the idea of Newell and McCowan together.

Newell playing alongside Kwon doing the same thing Sylla does for Dundee probably sees them having similar heat maps etc.

[CapitalGreen]

They're both left footed and I'm not sure McCowan is as attacking a player as many think (looks an all-rounder to me) and I reckon Newell has probably been playing deeper than he's most comfortable for Hibs in recent times (also naturally an all-rounder to me).

A bit like the thing we had a few years ago with the idea of Fontaine and Hanlon playing centre-back together - I don't think we'd have an issue with 2 right footed players playing in the midfield together but something feels a bit weird to me about the idea of Newell and McCowan together.

Newell playing alongside Kwon doing the same thing Sylla does for Dundee probably sees them having similar heat maps etc.

You are right he’s not.

[Sioux]

Those heat maps cover only two games this season.

Furthermore, they only cover the area a player occupies. What he does, or doesn't do, when he's in there is what really matters. There's too much reliance on stats these days.

[easty]

They're both left footed and I'm not sure McCowan is as attacking a player as many think (looks an all-rounder to me) and I reckon Newell has probably been playing deeper than he's most comfortable for Hibs in recent times (also naturally an all-rounder to me).

A bit like the thing we had a few years ago with the idea of Fontaine and Hanlon playing centre-back together - I don't think we'd have an issue with 2 right footed players playing in the midfield together but something feels a bit weird to me about the idea of Newell and McCowan together.

Newell playing alongside Kwon doing the same thing Sylla does for Dundee probably sees them having similar heat maps etc.


You are right he’s not.

Over his career he's averaged just about a goal every 4 games (47 in 201). Of course he's an attacking midfielder.

[JohnM1875]

Over his career he's averaged just about a goal every 4 games (47 in 201). Of course he's an attacking midfielder.

Has he not only recently moved into midfield? Started as a winger did he not?

[CapitalGreen]

Has he not only recently moved into midfield? Started as a winger did he not?

Yup, Tony Docherty converted him into a midfielder. Most of his goals since have come from set pieces including scoring direct from a corner last season.

Lyle Cameron is the most attacking of the 3 in Dundee’s midfield.

[Brightside]

Has he not only recently moved into midfield? Started as a winger did he not?

Played as...
Right Winger 43 13 6
Central Midfield 31 10 4
Left Winger 25 6 2
Left Midfield 18 4 5
Right Midfield 17 3 5
Attacking Midfield 13 3 3
Second Striker 5 2 -
Centre-Forward 4 1 1

[JohnM1875]

Played as...
Right Winger 43 13 6
Central Midfield 31 10 4
Left Winger 25 6 2
Left Midfield 18 4 5
Right Midfield 17 3 5
Attacking Midfield 13 3 3
Second Striker 5 2 -
Centre-Forward 4 1 1

So aye, basically played a season in the middle of the pitch. Impressive numbers for just taking the position up.

[Brightside]

So aye, basically played a season in the middle of the pitch. Impressive numbers for just taking the position up.

Ayr United

Played as...
Right Winger 28 10 3
Right Midfield 8 2 2
Attacking Midfield 7 2 1
Left Winger 6 1 -
Left Midfield 5 - 3
Second Striker 4 2 -
Centre-Forward 4 1 1
Central Midfield 1 - -

Converted is a wee bit of a stretch. He's always played in multiple positions. I imagine his heat map over the seasons shows that.

[theonlywayisup]

Updated list of midfielders from Hibs website is below. With one week to go, I really hope that we're going to see some movement in and out. We need better in midfield IMO.

Levitt (6)
JDH (8)
Newell (11)
Amos (14)
NMW (16)
Kwon (18)
Cadden (19)
Kenneh (24)
Delferriere (28)
Tavares (29)
Campbell (32)
Molotnikov (35)

[Eyrie]

Updated list of midfielders from Hibs website is below. With one week to go, I really hope that we're going to see some movement in and out. We need better in midfield IMO.

Levitt (6)
JDH (8)
Newell (11)
Amos (14)
NMW (16)
Kwon (18)
Cadden (19)
Kenneh (24)
Delferriere (28)
Tavares (29)
Campbell (32)
Molotnikov (35)

Uninspiring.

Potential starters - Kwon, Newell, Molotnikov
Squad players - Cadden, Moriah-Welsh, Campbell
Good luck elsewhere - Levitt, Doyle-Hayes, Amos, Kenneh, Delferriere, Tavares

[theonlywayisup]

Uninspiring.

Potential starters - Kwon, Newell, Molotnikov
Squad players - Cadden, Moriah-Welsh, Campbell
Good luck elsewhere - Levitt, Doyle-Hayes, Amos, Kenneh, Delferriere, Tavares

Agree! Worrying that we're still in this position with regards to strengthening the midfield.

We need better than Newell. We can't rely on young Rudi all season. And, Kwon is a bit of an unknown to me.

[LunasBoots]

Updated list of midfielders from Hibs website is below. With one week to go, I really hope that we're going to see some movement in and out. We need better in midfield IMO.

Levitt (6)
JDH (8)
Newell (11)
Amos (14)
NMW (16)
Kwon (18)
Cadden (19)
Kenneh (24)
Delferriere (28)
Tavares (29)
Campbell (32)
Molotnikov (35)

The ones that will likely start are all very similar still, still a problem area.

[GreenCastle]

Updated list of midfielders from Hibs website is below. With one week to go, I really hope that we're going to see some movement in and out. We need better in midfield IMO.

Levitt (6)
JDH (8)
Newell (11)
Amos (14)
NMW (16)
Kwon (18)
Cadden (19)
Kenneh (24)
Delferriere (28)
Tavares (29)
Campbell (32)
Molotnikov (35)

Mad to think we have only added 1 new starter into centre midfield.

Rudi has done well but we can’t rely on him being a key midfielder this season.

I’m hoping Kwon is the next Bartley and we don’t shove Newell next to him getting in the way.

Going to be fascinating watching the midfield battle today and see who comes out on top. I rate all 3 Dundee players assuming they play so hopefully we can play better.

[A Hi-Bee]

Has he not only recently moved into midfield? Started as a winger did he not?

Sure that Hibs had someone who started out as a winger and McLeish never seen his real value, they did when he left Hibs.
As for statistics what is it they say, there's lies, damn lies and statistics, just about sums it up for me.

:thumbsup:

[GreenCastle]

Having watched today carefully…

We don’t need to play Newell and Kwon as x2 CDMs.

Let Kwon do what Sylla did.

Find a box to box type - McCowan??

Plus a creative 10 - Rudi ? Another ?

Newell isn’t the way forward.

We can play x2 CDM against Rangers / Celtic but at home we shouldn’t be playing it as at times when we do get crosses into the box and had about 2 players attacking it and about 8 players behind the ball.

Let teams worry about us - play 1 CDM and 2 attacking players in that triangle.

[JohnM1875]

Having watched today carefully…

We don’t need to play Newell and Kwon as x2 CDMs.

Let Kwon do what Sylla did.

Find a box to box type - McCowan??

Plus a creative 10 - Rudi ? Another ?

Newell isn’t the way forward.

We can play x2 CDM against Rangers / Celtic but at home we shouldn’t be playing it as at times we go crosses into the box and had about 2 players attacking it.

Let teams worry about us - play 1 CDM and 2 attacking players in that triangle.

100% agree. I hate that we play two sitters. Especially at home against teams you'd hope we’d beat. Does my tits in.

[GreenCastle]

100% agree. I hate that we play two sitters. Especially at home against teams you'd hope we’d beat. Does my tits in.

Newell also played his best football when further forward.

We don't need Joe Newell sitting in at CB trying to create at snails pace. Remains me of Liam Craig.

Would rather a centre back to lead and drive into the space with the ball.

[eastmainsmsh]

thoughts on Kwon today decent Debut

[SickBoy32]

Newell has never been, and never will be, the answer.

Absolutely awful decision to give him (yet another) extension, and the armband to boot.

We’ll look back on the Joe Newell era (will be the best part of a decade by the end of his latest deal) and just shake our heads.

Kwon looked decent.

[LunasBoots]

Midfield remains as it has done for years a problem area, all far to similar, the lack of attacking midfielders or a Dylan McGeough type player is obvious

[B.H.F.C]

Newell also played his best football when further forward.

We don't need Joe Newell sitting in at CB trying to create at snails pace. Remains me of Liam Craig.

Would rather a centre back to lead and drive into the space with the ball.

When he decides to play with a bit of urgency he can be good, like winning the free kick we scored from. For the most part he just floats around being ineffective. Telling everyone to calm down after the disallowed goal when they hadn’t worked themselves up to jogging by that point. Lacks the drive, desire and influence to be the leader on the park. Shouldn’t be in that position.

[Callum_62]

thoughts on Kwon today decent DebutProbably not really noticed

Until he went off and McCowan took over

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[LaMotta]

Like the look of Kwon but no idea how he got away without a booking - could have had one at least on 2 occasions.

Dundee got away with a few early doors as well which could have been bookings. Wish Newell would nip the refs heed a bit more in these situations -Noticed McCowan was far more in the refs ear today than Newell. You'd think with Liam Craig on the bench he's have drilled that into him.

[GreenCastle]

When he decides to play with a bit of urgency he can be good, like winning the free kick we scored from. For the most part he just floats around being ineffective. Telling everyone to calm down after the disallowed goal when they hadn’t worked themselves up to jogging by that point. Lacks the drive, desire and influence to be the leader on the park. Shouldn’t be in that position.

I don’t think his team will ever progress with Newell as captain or a starter.

[Dashing Bob S]

Having watched today carefully…

We don’t need to play Newell and Kwon as x2 CDMs.

Let Kwon do what Sylla did.

Find a box to box type - McCowan??

Plus a creative 10 - Rudi ? Another ?

Newell isn’t the way forward.

We can play x2 CDM against Rangers / Celtic but at home we shouldn’t be playing it as at times we go crosses into the box and had about 2 players attacking it.

Let teams worry about us - play 1 CDM and 2 attacking players in that triangle.

Excellent post and it’s something that has bugged me. I had hopes that after Gray saying we need to be adaptable in our systems of play that we would be more aggressive and creative in the midfield at home. This hasn’t yet happened. Perhaps because we don’t yet have the personnel, but we shouldn’t be going fearfully into home games against Dundee as if we’re facing Manchester City.

[BILLYHIBS]

Looked a bit stiff maybes rusty

Runs as though he has a pole down the back of his strip but maybe that is just me

Looked to have picked up a knock before being subbed

Jury still out

[Iain G]

Looked a bit stiff maybes rusty

Runs as though he has a pole down the back of his strip but maybe that is just me

Looked to have picked up a knock before being subbed

Jury still out

Jury still out, after playing less than one full match! Maybe we should just send him back already 🙄

[RIP]

Newell was our best midfielder by a mile yet again. Rudi was playing further forward. Neither Kwon, Josh (hit bar) nor Nathan had a positive effect on the game.

Until we sign three better midfielders, Joe is here to stay.

[InvertedFullBak]

Newell has never been, and never will be, the answer.

Absolutely awful decision to give him (yet another) extension, and the armband to boot.

We’ll look back on the Joe Newell era (will be the best part of a decade by the end of his latest deal) and just shake our heads.

Kwon looked decent.

I’m sorry but we will. Again another poor performance from him. Yet another daft booking making a challenge he was never going to win.

[Brightside]

Joe Newell should be nowhere near this team. Mccowan could have carried him round the park today.

[BILLYHIBS]

Jury still out, after playing less than one full match! Maybe we should just send him back already 🙄

Will give him a couple of games before writing him off 😂

I am sure he will be fine cost decent wedge and was good for Saints just never saw it today hence jury still out

[eastmainsmsh]

Watching sportscene Ryan Jack could shore up Midfield decent player

[Docker]

Newell also played his best football when further forward.

We don't need Joe Newell sitting in at CB trying to create at snails pace. Remains me of Liam Craig.

Would rather a centre back to lead and drive into the space with the ball.

On numerous occasions, our CB’s had to pass the ball backwards to find Newell. Two DM’s today was overkill, especially with one of them playing sweeper for the first 30 minutes!

[CapitalGreen]

When he decides to play with a bit of urgency he can be good, like winning the free kick we scored from. For the most part he just floats around being ineffective. Telling everyone to calm down after the disallowed goal when they hadn’t worked themselves up to jogging by that point. Lacks the drive, desire and influence to be the leader on the park. Shouldn’t be in that position.

Thought he came onto a game from the 40th minute onwards, as you say he begun to play both with a bit more urgency and further up the field. It shouldn’t take 40 mins and us nearly going 2 goals down for our captain to kick into gear though.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

Joe Newell should be nowhere near this team. Mccowan could have carried him round the park today.

Nonsense, people just making stuff up now.

You’d think we’d got beat 3-0 the way some people are going on.

[Unseen work]

Midfield would seem a hell of a lot better if our defence and keeper stopped conceding absolutely brutal goals through individual errors

[Real Emerald]

Nonsense, people just making stuff up now.

You’d think we’d got beat 3-0 the way some people are going on.

We should have been about 3 down at half time we were that bad in the first half. Absolutely clueless disorganised mess. We improved second half but still managed to blow it.

[jeffers]

Thought he came onto a game from the 40th minute onwards, as you say he begun to play both with a bit more urgency and further up the field. It shouldn’t take 40 mins and us nearly going 2 goals down for our captain to kick into gear though.

How I saw his performance. Anonymous for the first 30 or so minutes, then got better. Certainly wasn’t his worst game of the season.

[green day]

Nonsense, people just making stuff up now.

You’d think we’d got beat 3-0 the way some people are going on.

Newell did absolutely nothing in the first half. As out club captain, that's his usual offering.

Afraid we are in big, big trouble if he is the standard that our players are held to.

[CapitalGreen]

Midfield would seem a hell of a lot better if our defence and keeper stopped conceding absolutely brutal goals through individual errors

Why would that make the midfield look better? Would it make Campbell capable of finding a team mate with a simple pass? Would it give Newell the ability to tackle a player running at him? Would it make the other collection of non-entities an attacking threat?

We had the tightest defence outwith the old firm during the 21/22 season, it didn’t make our midfield of Newell, JDH and Campbell seem a hell of a lot better.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

Newell did absolutely nothing in the first half. As out club captain, that's his usual offering.

Afraid we are in big, big trouble if he is the standard that our players are held to.

He was still our best midfielder. Who would you have replaced him with in the squad today to make a difference?

[green day]

He was still our best midfielder. Who would you have replaced him with in the squad today to make a difference?

Replacing him with one of the other hopeless cases wasn't really what I was hoping for tbh.....

[Unseen work]

Why would that make the midfield look better? Would it make Campbell capable of finding a team mate with a simple pass? Would it give Newell the ability to tackle a player running at him? Would it make the other collection of non-entities an attacking threat?

We had the tightest defence outwith the old firm during the 21/22 season, it didn’t make our midfield of Newell, JDH and Campbell seem a hell of a lot better.

It would make the whole team look better

It would give us something to build on and not continuously chasing our tail by conceding early in games.

We need to be much better as a unit, at the moment it’s hard to do that as we chuck goals away

Start the games better, don’t concede and confidence grows throughout the team

[MWHIBBIES]

Joe Newell should be nowhere near this team. Mccowan could have carried him round the park today.

He should've then. Because he was certainly no better than Newell, who played quite well.

[GreenCastle]

Out of 4 games this season Newell has played “well” for around 25 minutes of today’s game.

McCowan has led by example and has put in 3 good shifts in a derby versus Utd scoring 1 goal - played well and scoring against our main rivals (Hearts) and another assist against Hibs today at Easter Road where he played well. He also had 3 assists and a goal against Airdrie.

[The Modfather]

Id love McCowan to improve us. His attempt for our second goal would see Newell slaughtered though.

Joe was fine today. Not great, but certainly not pish..


He should've then. Because he was certainly no better than Newell, who played quite well.

From not great, not p!sh to playing quite well in the space of a few hours. I hope you’re not doing Newell’s PR for free. :greengrin

[Chip shop Joe]

Newell is an ok player. Not great and not awful but he is never in a million years a captain.

As I have said previously I thought McCowan was very good today but I was also impressed with the way he was constantly going over to his players who were on the ground, helping them up and giving them words of encouragement. This is what a captain does, they lead by example. I think he has all the attributes to be a brilliant signing for us and I really hope we can get this one over the line.

[J-C]

I'm down in Southport this weekend so haven't seen any highlights but if people are saying Newell is still sitting deep, then we'll struggle to win games. He slows everything down, creates very little and isn't a deep sitting midfielder ever. I know the contract extension was offered before Gray and MM took over but it should've been withdrawn, giving him the captaincy was also ridiculous, he's been a constant in a shambles of a midfield for the past 4 years.

[cekim]

Newell wouldn't be 1st choice for any other team in the league bar Ross County. How the hell is he captain here.

[JimBHibees]

Out of 4 games this season Newell has played “well” for around 25 minutes of today’s game.

McCowan has led by example and has put in 3 good shifts in a derby versus Utd scoring 1 goal - played well and scoring against our main rivals (Hearts) and another assist against Hibs today at Easter Road where he played well. He also had 3 assists and a goal against Airdrie.

Where was his assist?

[JimBHibees]

Newell is an ok player. Not great and not awful but he is never in a million years a captain.

As I have said previously I thought McCowan was very good today but I was also impressed with the way he was constantly going over to his players who were on the ground, helping them up and giving them words of encouragement. This is what a captain does, they lead by example. I think he has all the attributes to be a brilliant signing for us and I really hope we can get this one over the line.

I would be giving McCowan the armband if he were to sign. No doubt Newell would go in the huff and try to undermine him.

[MWHIBBIES]

I'm down in Southport this weekend so haven't seen any highlights but if people are saying Newell is still sitting deep, then we'll struggle to win games. He slows everything down, creates very little and isn't a deep sitting midfielder ever. I know the contract extension was offered before Gray and MM took over but it should've been withdrawn, giving him the captaincy was also ridiculous, he's been a constant in a shambles of a midfield for the past 4 years.

Didn't even watch the match but it was Newells fault. Forum is a joke honestly.

[MWHIBBIES]

I would be giving McCowan the armband if he were to sign. No doubt Newell would go in the huff and try to undermine him.

What a vile thing to say, based on absolutely nothing whatsoever.

[JimBHibees]

Watching sportscene Ryan Jack could shore up Midfield decent player

Has he signed for someone never heard that

[JimBHibees]

What a vile thing to say, based on absolutely nothing whatsoever.

You’re probably right but hardly vile. Kind of based on his performances last season when it mattered

[Callum_62]

Has he signed for someone never heard thatHe hasn't and he can't even play on astro (dodgy knee) as he said on open goal

Hibs sign him and he's out inj for any length of time and we would get slaughtered

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[flash]

I don’t think his team will ever progress with Newell as captain or a starter.

We finished 3rd with him starting or was he not in that team? My old memory ain't what it used to be.

[jakedance]

I didn’t think McCowan was brilliant yesterday but he was moving the ball around quickly and, more often than not, looking up to get the ball forward. Our midfield, on the other hand, is slow and cautious, and Newell is the conductor that’s setting the tempo.

We are just not good enough to defend a lead. It’s infuriating how we don’t have the courage to attack. We’re terrible to watch and have been for years. Hibs are breaking my spirit man.

[JimBHibees]

He hasn't and he can't even play on astro (dodgy knee) as he said on open goal

Hibs sign him and he's out inj for any length of time and we would get slaughtered

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

Ok just when comment made about Jack and sportscene was that he was playing for someone. Agree too high a risk

[JimBHibees]

I didn’t think McCowan was brilliant yesterday but he was moving the ball around quickly and, more often than not, looking up to get the ball forward. Our midfield, on the other hand, is slow and cautious, and Newell is the conductor that’s setting the tempo.

We are just not good enough to defend a lead. It’s infuriating how we don’t have the courage to attack. We’re terrible to watch and have been for years. Hibs are breaking my spirit man.

Thought he was quiet too but came onto a game when they needed him late on

[Bobby's Cinema]

So first half yesterday we've went a goal down, crowd is a bit restless, new goalkeeper and centre halfs, new young lad and signings either side, new signing alongside you.

As captain and been at the club for years, why is Joe Newell not moving into space demanding the ball from the centre halfs, turning and playing us forward. Instead, just rarely makes himself available in that situation to help out playing through the centre.

He had to be the one to take responsibility to get us going and help the new lads. He's got to be the one. I don't see the evidence of that again. Do not understand it. Time to stand up and be counted here I don't think it's near good enough what he gives us.

[InvertedFullBak]

We finished 3rd with him starting or was he not in that team? My old memory ain't what it used to be.

We did finish third with him in the side and we’ve also finished in the bottom 6 twice with him in there.

[MWHIBBIES]

So first half yesterday we've went a goal down, crowd is a bit restless, new goalkeeper and centre halfs, new young lad and signings either side, new signing alongside you.

As captain and been at the club for years, why is Joe Newell not moving into space demanding the ball from the centre halfs, turning and playing us forward. Instead, just rarely makes himself available in that situation to help out playing through the centre.

He had to be the one to take responsibility to get us going and help the new lads. He's got to be the one. I don't see the evidence of that again. Do not understand it. I don't think it's near good enough.

Indeed. He should be beating players on the edge of the box and winning free kicks that lead to goals...oh wait.

[MWHIBBIES]

You’re probably right but hardly vile. Kind of based on his performances last season when it mattered

That is a really incredible reach right there. So he would go in the huff, and try to undermine a new captain based on his performances last season? It is a vile thing to say. You may not like him as a player but his attitude has been excellent in a Hibs shirt.

Were his performances bad when it mattered? He was certainly one of our best players in Europe. No debate required there. Those games mattered.
Assist away at Aberdeen to get us our first victory of the season. We were sitting bottom going into this match, so that game mattered.
New managers first home game vs St Johnstone, another assist. I'd say that one mattered.
Assist away at Dundee to get Montys first away win. That mattered a bit yeah?
2-0 down away at Kilmarnock, drags us back into it with a wonderful goal.
Another assist at Pittordrie.
Assists in both league cup last 16 and quarter final.

Every game matters, and Newell had many good ones last season. Didn't finish the season well, but for the first 3/4, he was easily one of our best 3 players.

[Since90+2]

Newell wouldn't be 1st choice for any other team in the league bar Ross County. How the hell is he captain here.

Not sure about that tbh.

He's not the answer though, in an ideal world he'd not be starting but unfortunately we don't have the funds available to replace him and another current midfield starter, plus the other areas that need looked at

[InvertedFullBak]

That is a really incredible reach right there. So he would go in the huff, and try to undermine a new captain based on his performances last season? It is a vile thing to say. You may not like him as a player but his attitude has been excellent in a Hibs shirt.

Were his performances bad when it mattered? He was certainly one of our best players in Europe. No debate required there. Those games mattered.
Assist away at Aberdeen to get us our first victory of the season. We were sitting bottom going into this match, so that game mattered.
New managers first home game vs St Johnstone, another assist. I'd say that one mattered.
Assist away at Dundee to get Montys first away win. That mattered a bit yeah?
2-0 down away at Kilmarnock, drags us back into it with a wonderful goal.
Another assist at Pittordrie.
Assists in both league cup last 16 and quarter final.

Every game matters, and Newell had many good ones last season. Didn't finish the season well, but for the first 3/4, he was easily one of our best 3 players.

Surely it matters in every game and not the hand picked ones your peddling out ?

[MWHIBBIES]

That is a really incredible reach right there. So he would go in the huff, and try to undermine a new captain based on his performances last season? It is a vile thing to say. You may not like him as a player but his attitude has been excellent in a Hibs shirt.

Were his performances bad when it mattered? He was certainly one of our best players in Europe. No debate required there. Those games mattered.
Assist away at Aberdeen to get us our first victory of the season. We were sitting bottom going into this match, so that game mattered.
New managers first home game vs St Johnstone, another assist. I'd say that one mattered.
Assist away at Dundee to get Montys first away win. That mattered a bit yeah?
2-0 down away at Kilmarnock, drags us back into it with a wonderful goal.
Another assist at Pittordrie.
Assists in both league cup last 16 and quarter final.

Every game matters, and Newell had many good ones last season. Didn't finish the season well, but for the first 3/4, he was easily one of our best 3 players.


Surely it matters in every game and not the hand picked ones your peddling out ?

You are right. I should have said that. READ THE POST BEFORE REPLYING.

[JimBHibees]

That is a really incredible reach right there. So he would go in the huff, and try to undermine a new captain based on his performances last season? It is a vile thing to say. You may not like him as a player but his attitude has been excellent in a Hibs shirt.

Were his performances bad when it mattered? He was certainly one of our best players in Europe. No debate required there. Those games mattered.
Assist away at Aberdeen to get us our first victory of the season. We were sitting bottom going into this match, so that game mattered.
New managers first home game vs St Johnstone, another assist. I'd say that one mattered.
Assist away at Dundee to get Montys first away win. That mattered a bit yeah?
2-0 down away at Kilmarnock, drags us back into it with a wonderful goal.
Another assist at Pittordrie.
Assists in both league cup last 16 and quarter final.

Every game matters, and Newell had many good ones last season. Didn't finish the season well, but for the first 3/4, he was easily one of our best 3 players.

Nice dramatic response. Bottom line is he went missing when it mattered last season and that form has carried over into this season. Shows little to no leadership qualities.

[Smartie]

I didn’t think McCowan was brilliant yesterday but he was moving the ball around quickly and, more often than not, looking up to get the ball forward. Our midfield, on the other hand, is slow and cautious, and Newell is the conductor that’s setting the tempo.

We are just not good enough to defend a lead. It’s infuriating how we don’t have the courage to attack. We’re terrible to watch and have been for years. Hibs are breaking my spirit man.

He did the basics very well - first touch, weight of pass and work rate were excellent. He then stepped it up late when needed to.

Under heavy pressure, he played well. I can see why teams would be interested.

Sylla was outstanding for them though. Top marks to whoever spotted him and thought he could put a shift in in the Scottish league.

[MWHIBBIES]

Nice dramatic response. Bottom line is he went missing when it mattered last season and that form has carried over into this season. Shows little to no leadership qualities.

That is not the bottom line. Its an complete and utter lie. As I've cleared showed above.

[InvertedFullBak]

You are right. I should have said that. READ THE POST BEFORE REPLYING.

You need to read some of your posts before you post them. The same narrative being peddled time after time. You make Newell out to be some messiah where as others are now starting to realise that he’s bang average and becoming more of a liability as time goes on.

[Bobby's Cinema]

Indeed. He should be beating players on the edge of the box and winning free kicks that lead to goals...oh wait.
He doesn't do enough. I expect far more from him as the senior experienced player and captain in the middle of the pitch. He does not demand the ball from others. That was another game yesterday in which we had no pattern of play or no sustained control in. The new centre halves are clearly nervous not comfortable on the ball, he needs to do far more to help them out and get us playing. He is the man in the midfield you would look to provide that for us.

And since this is the midfield thread, I should add I thought Kwon was excellent. Seemed to show up in their faces all over the park and got stuck in well. Looks a good find for us.

[MWHIBBIES]

He doesn't do enough. I expect far more from him as the senior experienced player and captain in the middle of the pitch. He does not demand the ball from others. That was another game yesterday in which we had no pattern of play or no sustained control in. The new centre halves are clearly nervous not comfortable on the ball, he needs to do far more to help them out and get us playing. He is the man in the midfield you would look to provide that for us.

Him and Kwon took the ball off of our centre backs almost every time it was required yesterday.

[MWHIBBIES]

You need to read some of your posts before you post them. The same narrative being peddled time after time. You make Newell out to be some messiah where as others are now starting to realise that he’s bang average and becoming more of a liability as time goes on.

I do not make him out to be some messiah. Another lie.

[Unseen work]

He did the basics very well - first touch, weight of pass and work rate were excellent. He then stepped it up late when needed to.

Under heavy pressure, he played well. I can see why teams would be interested.

Sylla was outstanding for them though. Top marks to whoever spotted him and thought he could put a shift in in the Scottish league.

Yep Sylla was brilliant

As soon as rudi got the ball he was all over him.

Got about the pitch very very, good on the ball and just overall a really good and dominating centre mid

[B.H.F.C]

Nice dramatic response. Bottom line is he went missing when it mattered last season and that form has carried over into this season. Shows little to no leadership qualities.

That’s it for me. Newell being captain of the club really, really pisses me off. When he actually puts his mind to it and applies himself properly he can play but I find it so few and far between. Just so uninspiring and his importance to the team is a big reason why we are where we are. That’s not all on him though, he’s repeatedly put in that position and given that responsibility.

[Ozyhibby]

If McCowan signs then I don’t see a spot for Newell in this team.
The midfield three should be Kwon, McCowan and Rudi. Newell doesn’t break into that three.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Smartie]

Indeed. He should be beating players on the edge of the box and winning free kicks that lead to goals...oh wait.

I’d love to see him in that sort of position more often. I actually think he’s potentially very creative in the final third - decent weight of pass, good dribbler in tight areas etc. The deeper he plays, the more he’s wasted imo.

[B.H.F.C]

If McCowan signs then I don’t see a spot for Newell in this team.
The midfield three should be Kwon, McCowan and Rudi. Newell doesn’t break into that three.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree but we all know that’s not going to be the case. Newell will continue to play.

[GreenCastle]

We finished 3rd with him starting or was he not in that team? My old memory ain't what it used to be.

Yes finished 3rd with no Hearts in the league.

Same season we bottled it big time in both cups if my memory is correct ? St Johnstone won the double.

Bottom line is Hibs will never win anything with Newell in it - 100% guarantee that. Would love to be proved wrong but I just don’t see us progressing till he’s out the midfield.

[Brooster]

Another inept performance from the hide and seek champion.

[JimBHibees]

That is not the bottom line. Its an complete and utter lie. As I've cleared showed above.

He hides plays with no intensity second to most balls poor at tracking runners poor defensive awareness. Frustrating thing is there have been games he has done this Lucern at home which actually makes his many poor performances even more annoying.

[BoomtownHibees]

Newell is the one constant in an under-performing midfield

[MWHIBBIES]

He hides plays with no intensity second to most balls poor at tracking runners poor defensive assess awareness. Frustrating thing is there have been games he has done this Lucern at home which actually makes his many poor performances even more annoying.

Joe Newell hides. Read it all now. Totally false.
Does play with intensity. Not as often as he should tbf.
Second to most balls? More nonsense.

What about all the things he does well? Always available for a pass. Takes it off our fullbacks and defenders consistently. Many good forward passes. A good one yesterday got us up the park, leading to a corner, leading to the throw that we scored our second goal.

He's not perfect, at all, but the nonsense posted on here is frightening.

[Bobby's Cinema]

Joe Newell hides. Read it all now. Totally false.
Does play with intensity. Not as often as he should tbf.
Second to most balls? More nonsense.

What about all the things he does well? Always available for a pass. Takes it off our fullbacks and defenders consistently. Many good forward passes. A good one yesterday got us up the park, leading to a corner, leading to the throw that we scored our second goal.

He's not perfect, at all, but the nonsense posted on here is frightening.
These are the things I don't think he does anywhere near enough. Opinions eh!

[Donegal Hibby]

These are the things I don't think he does anywhere near enough. Opinions eh!

Most fans know he doesn’t tbh .

[mcohibs]

Joe Newell hides. Read it all now. Totally false.
Does play with intensity. Not as often as he should tbf.
Second to most balls? More nonsense.

What about all the things he does well? Always available for a pass. Takes it off our fullbacks and defenders consistently. Many good forward passes. A good one yesterday got us up the park, leading to a corner, leading to the throw that we scored our second goal.

He's not perfect, at all, but the nonsense posted on here is frightening.

Appreciate that people have different opinions but I honestly find it staggering that you could have watched Newell play over the past couple of seasons and come to the conclusion that he plays with intensity and is first to most balls in the midfield.

[MWHIBBIES]

Most fans know he doesn’t tbh .

Do they?

55% on here think Newell should continue as a key player.

And Hibs.net is certainly not representative of all Hibs fans. Every one I speak to regularly thinks Joe is a good player.

[The Modfather]

Do they?

55% on here think Newell should continue as a key player.

And Hibs.net is certainly not representative of all Hibs fans. Every one I speak to regularly thinks Joe is a good player.

I started that poll in April. I think Newell disappearing in the lead up to the split (alongside many others), captaincy, 3 year deal and his poor start to the season has seen a further shift away from Newell being the answer as a starter. You now see posters who were previously quite positive about him now quite negative. It wouldn’t be constructive to start a new poll (someone else feel free to) however I would be surprised it a new poll saw the same result, which was not far off a 50/50 split anyway.

[B.H.F.C]

Do they?

55% on here think Newell should continue as a key player.

And Hibs.net is certainly not representative of all Hibs fans. Every one I speak to regularly thinks Joe is a good player.

Nobody I speak to regularly does. And the folk around me at Easter Road certainly don’t.

[Donegal Hibby]

Do they?

55% on here think Newell should continue as a key player.

And Hibs.net is certainly not representative of all Hibs fans. Every one I speak to regularly thinks Joe is a good player.

I don’t think Newell on his day is a bad player , quite the opposite in fact , he can be really good but he is inconsistent and has in the past regularly gone missing in games .

He shouldn’t be playing every week for us . Personally I doubt very much he’d be playing regularly every week if he was at hertz or Aberdeen too .

[mcohibs]

I don’t think Newell on his day is a bad player , quite the opposite in fact , he can be really good but he is inconsistent and has in the past regularly gone missing in games .

He shouldn’t be playing every week for us . Personally I doubt very much he’d be playing regularly every week if he was at hertz or Aberdeen too .

He wouldn’t have got into that Dundee midfield yesterday, never mind Hearts or Aberdeen.

[theonlywayisup]

Re the Super Joe Newell debate, Michael Stewart was very critical of our defending yesterday, pointing out for the first goal that Joe Newell was far too deep when Dundee was attacking. He actually was on the 6 yard box in between Marv and O'Hora, when he should have been on the edge of the box picking up the Dundee player who received the ball.

Very poor from Super Joe Newell, but he was not alone. Our full backs are not good enough, and I worry about our central pairing. Worrying times!

[theonlywayisup]

I started that poll in April. I think Newell disappearing in the lead up to the split (alongside many others), captaincy, 3 year deal and his poor start to the season has seen a further shift away from Newell being the answer as a starter. You now see posters who were previously quite positive about him now quite negative. It wouldn’t be constructive to start a new poll (someone else feel free to) however I would be surprised it a new poll saw the same result, which was not far off a 50/50 split anyway.

I agree with the view that if the poll was started today the % for Super Joe Newell being a certain starter would be much lower. I think many are seeing that he is an inconsistent player, who's good moments are now being overlooked by his many poor moments.

[Nicho87]

I’m sure we were all watching McCowan a bit closer

I gave him closer attention in the second half, I can’t really recall him giving the ball away to be honest

Some passing setting Murray free was impressive

I think the way results and things are I think gray will be demanding to sort out the fee and get him in the door pronto

If it means getting rid of Newell, 110% pay over the odds.

[theonlywayisup]

I’m sure we were all watching McCowan a bit closer

I gave him closer attention in the second half, I can’t really recall him giving the ball away to be honest

Some passing setting Murray free was impressive

I think the way results and things are I think gray will be demanding to sort out the fee and get him in the door pronto

If it means getting rid of Newell, 110% pay over the odds.

Any one of Dundee midfielders would be an upgrade on Super Joe Newell.

[MWHIBBIES]

I’m sure we were all watching McCowan a bit closer

I gave him closer attention in the second half, I can’t really recall him giving the ball away to be honest

Some passing setting Murray free was impressive

I think the way results and things are I think gray will be demanding to sort out the fee and get him in the door pronto

If it means getting rid of Newell, 110% pay over the odds.

It doesn't mean getting rid of Newell, regardless of what we pay

[Nicho87]

It doesn't mean getting rid of Newell, regardless of what we pay

No but with McCowan coming in, there is more % chance of Newell dropping out


At this moment in time for some reason he seems to be undroppable, that is alarming

[MWHIBBIES]

No but with McCowan coming in, there is more % chance of Newell dropping out


At this moment in time for some reason he seems to be undroppable, that is alarming

He is quite significantly better than Campbell, Levitt and NMW, the other players we could drop him for. That is why. Nothing alarming about it.

[flash]

Any one of Dundee midfielders would be an upgrade on Super Joe Newell.

Still trying to work out how we didn't lose 6-0 seeing as we were up against Barcelona's midfield of 15 years ago yesterday.

[Forza Fred]

Newell s probably our best midfielder.

That does not mean he is good enough though.

[Nicho87]

He is quite significantly better than Campbell, Levitt and NMW, the other players we could drop him for. That is why. Nothing alarming about it.

You could be right, that shouldn’t mean we just settle for Newell though does it?

If there are better players out there, gray, MM etc should be looking at the first eleven and seeing what / where we could do drastically better

For me the obvious choices based on yesterdays 11 would be

Goalie, centre half, left back, centre midfield, newell gives you one decent game in 7/8 I reckon and it’s just accepted now.

Standards have fell in the last 5 years.

[Smartie]

Still trying to work out how we didn't lose 6-0 seeing as we were up against Barcelona's midfield of 15 years ago yesterday.

Because they still have the likes of Jordan McGhee playing in other positions for them.

It’s a good midfield unit they have, and had we just managed to hold on for another few minutes it would have been a great result for us.

[sauzeelegod]

I’ve always liked Newell but I’ve came to the conclusion that he needs replaced.
I’d like to see a midfield 3 of Kwon Rudi and McCowan if we can get him.
Have Rudi and McCowan playing high up with Kwon behind them.
Get the fullbacks inverting like Celtic do.
We don’t need two 6’s.

[CapitalGreen]

I like Rudi but I think he needs to be used outwide until he has developed his game a bit more. He wasn’t able to influence the game at all yesterday.

[WestStandWillie]

Teflon Joe needs emptied. Ross Chisholm with better hair.

[Basildon Hibs]

Yes finished 3rd with no Hearts in the league.

Same season we bottled it big time in both cups if my memory is correct ? St Johnstone won the double.

Bottom line is Hibs will never win anything with Newell in it - 100% guarantee that. Would love to be proved wrong but I just don’t see us progressing till he’s out the midfield.

Spot on !!💯👍

[flash]

Teflon Joe needs emptied. Ross Chisholm with better hair.

Levels above Chisholm but you know that already.

[Eyrie]

It would be interesting if every poster demanding Newell is dropped would list their preferred starting three. Guaranteed that every selection would have at least one no hoper included ahead of him, at least until we get McCowan.

That said, I'd like Gray to give Newell an explicit instruction to higher up the pitch at a faster tempo. And bench him if he doesn't do it.

[A Hi-Bee]

It would be interesting if every poster demanding Newell is dropped would list their preferred starting three. Guaranteed that every selection would have at least one no hoper included ahead of him, at least until we get McCowan.

That said, I'd like Gray to give Newell an explicit instruction to higher up the pitch at a faster tempo. And bench him if he doesn't do it.

Stanton, Cropley & Edwards.

[theonlywayisup]

It would be interesting if every poster demanding Newell is dropped would list their preferred starting three. Guaranteed that every selection would have at least one no hoper included ahead of him, at least until we get McCowan.

That said, I'd like Gray to give Newell an explicit instruction to higher up the pitch at a faster tempo. And bench him if he doesn't do it.

I'm not saying that he is dropped. But he must be as soon as we get (hopefully) better in. Super Joe Newell, just isn't good enough IMO.

[Eyrie]

Stanton, Cropley & Edwards.

No cheating! Current players only :na na:

Or I'm nominating McGinn, Brown and Latapy.

[A Hi-Bee]

No cheating! Current players only :na na:

Or I'm nominating McGinn, Brown and Latapy.

I'll stick wi my 3 thanks. :aok:

[JohnM1875]

It would be interesting if every poster demanding Newell is dropped would list their preferred starting three. Guaranteed that every selection would have at least one no hoper included ahead of him, at least until we get McCowan.

That said, I'd like Gray to give Newell an explicit instruction to higher up the pitch at a faster tempo. And bench him if he doesn't do it.

Kwon, McCowan and Rudi. Aye, Rudi is young, but he's a few months older than Lennon Miller who manages to play constantly for Motherwell.

If Newell is to keep playing we need to stop playing him as a sitting midfielder.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Teflon Joe needs emptied. Ross Chisholm with better hair.

A wise man once said once it becomes personal you’ve lost the argument.

[Since90+2]

Kwon, McCowan and Rudi. Aye, Rudi is young, but he's a few months older than Lennon Miller who manages to play constantly for Motherwell.

If Newell is to keep playing we need to stop playing him as a sitting midfielder.

Lennon Miller is absolutely top drawer, can see him going very far in the game. Rudi is a good young player but at the moment they aren't comparable IMO.

[Centre Hawf]

As good as Rudi looked in the League Cup, he's barely impacted a game since which includes playing against St Mirren wide left and Dundee in the 10 role. He's clearly got talent but anyone picking him to start in the 10 for the entire season would be just burning the laddie out before he gets going in my opinion.

[B.H.F.C]

As good as Rudi looked in the League Cup, he's barely impacted a game since which includes playing against St Mirren wide left and Dundee in the 10 role. He's clearly got talent but anyone picking him to start in the 10 for the entire season would be just burning the laddie out before he gets going in my opinion.

He’ll suffer for not being in a half decent, stable team.

I wouldn’t say he barely impacted the game yesterday. He ran himself in to the ground and had some brilliant touches. Puts some of the senior players to shame in terms of desire to take the ball.

[Donegal Hibby]

As good as Rudi looked in the League Cup, he's barely impacted a game since which includes playing against St Mirren wide left and Dundee in the 10 role. He's clearly got talent but anyone picking him to start in the 10 for the entire season would be just burning the laddie out before he gets going in my opinion.

Yep , we got to manage Rudi’s game time . I think Gray said he seen him long term as a 10 though we were playing him wide because he would get a bit more space .

[Centre Hawf]

He’ll suffer for not being in a half decent, stable team.

I wouldn’t say he barely impacted the game yesterday. He ran himself in to the ground and had some brilliant touches. Puts some of the senior players to shame in terms of desire to take the ball.

He ran himself into the ground but to be honest I felt nothing really came off for him that was anything great. That's fine, it'll happen for someone his age, not everyone can be the finished piece at this stage of his career. But running about is no better than Josh Campbell levels of application, at least Josh for all his faults has a track record of popping up with the odd goal for us, and we should be careful to putting Rudi on a pedestal because he's young and different to what we had before as tends to happen to young players.

If he's going to play in the number 10 role he needs to start picking some better passes and creating chances for his teammates or himself, otherwise out on the left will be his most likely position for a while.

[B.H.F.C]

He ran himself into the ground but to be honest I felt nothing really came off for him that was anything great. That's fine, it'll happen for someone his age, not everyone can be the finished piece at this stage of his career. But running about is no better than Josh Campbell levels of application, at least Josh for all his faults has a track record of popping up with the odd goal for us, and we should be careful to putting Rudi on a pedestal because he's young and different to what we had before as tends to happen to young players.

If he's going to play in the number 10 role he needs to start picking some better passes and creating chances for his teammates or himself, otherwise out on the left will be his most likely position for a while.

Not much did come off for him but it was one game in that position. Multiple times he got us up the park, won us free kicks and just generally, I thought, did well.

If he starts half a dozen games in there and doesn’t have anything to show for it then I think your points will be fairer.

[Heedersnvolleys]

He is quite significantly better than Campbell, Levitt and NMW, the other players we could drop him for. That is why. Nothing alarming about it.

They were already dropped you do know they never started yesterday🤦🏻*♂️🤔

[Centre Hawf]

Not much did come off for him but it was one game in that position. Multiple times he got us up the park, won us free kicks and just generally, I thought, did well.

If he starts half a dozen games in there and doesn’t have anything to show for it then I think your points will be fairer.

I do think the laddie has talent, and I want to see us use him and develop him. I also hope my post didn’t come over as me digging him out. Just want to urge more of a patient approach to him.

[Brightside]

I do think the laddie has talent, and I want to see us use him and develop him. I also hope my post didn’t come over as me digging him out. Just want to urge more of a patient approach to him.

He’s our best option in that area right now. Dragged the midfield along with him on Saturday.

[Fergus52]

If McCowan and Cameron are as good as everyone thinks they are on here, and Newell is as poor as some are making out, then surely you'd have expected Dundee to completely dominate the midfield on Saturday?

Was a pretty even game in term of midfield control imo, with them probably edging the first half and us the second

[MWHIBBIES]

If McCowan and Cameron are as good as everyone thinks they are on here, and Newell is as poor as some are making out, then surely you'd have expected Dundee to completely dominate the midfield on Saturday?

Was a pretty even game in term of midfield control imo, with them probably edging the first half and us the second

Yep.

Hibs.net - midfield decides everything. Protects defences. Creates chances. Controls the game. Dundee have a brilliant midfield. Ours is rubbish.

Reality - 2-2 draw in which we need to gift them 2 goals.

[CapitalGreen]

If McCowan and Cameron are as good as everyone thinks they are on here, and Newell is as poor as some are making out, then surely you'd have expected Dundee to completely dominate the midfield on Saturday?

Was a pretty even game in term of midfield control imo, with them probably edging the first half and us the second

Their midfield is a key factor in why they are currently 9 competitive games without defeat, 4th in the league, still in the cup and scoring 31 goals this season already.

Ours is a key factor why we are 4 games without a win, a point off the bottom of the league having failed to score a goal from open play against top flight opposition.

[GreenCastle]

Yep.

Hibs.net - midfield decides everything. Protects defences. Creates chances. Controls the game. Dundee have a brilliant midfield. Ours is rubbish.

Reality - 2-2 draw in which we need to gift them 2 goals.

Dundee 9 competitive games unbeaten.

Hibs 1 win in 5 competitive games

Dundees midfield also cost a lot less than ours and I actually preferred their energy and balance.

You could also say the Bowie goal was gifted to Hibs with some poor defending from a throw in - basics really of letting a striker turn in box.

There is a reason we are trying to pay a high fee for one of their main midfielders.

[MKHIBEE]

Stanton, Cropley & Edwards.

Even they would get stick on here

[Since90+2]

Their midfield is a key factor in why they are currently 9 competitive games without defeat, 4th in the league, still in the cup and scoring 31 goals this season already.

Ours is a key factor why we are 4 games without a win, a point off the bottom of the league having failed to score a goal from open play against top flight opposition.

Exactly.

[Smartie]

Their midfield is a key factor in why they are currently 9 competitive games without defeat, 4th in the league, still in the cup and scoring 31 goals this season already.

Ours is a key factor why we are 4 games without a win, a point off the bottom of the league having failed to score a goal from open play against top flight opposition.

Nail. On. Head.

[Fergus52]

Their midfield is a key factor in why they are currently 9 competitive games without defeat, 4th in the league, still in the cup and scoring 31 goals this season already.

Ours is a key factor why we are 4 games without a win, a point off the bottom of the league having failed to score a goal from open play against top flight opposition.

Seems a stretch to not call Bowie's goal from open play?

4th place also means nothing after 3 games played.

Realistically the Celtic games were always going to be a write off, but I'll admit our midfield was poor against St Mirren.

The game on Saturday I thought our midfield was fine though, I thought Kwon and Newell both played pretty well and were getting the better of the much lauded McCowan and Cameron for long periods of the game.

The reason we never won was down to our dodgy defence gifting them goals.

[CapitalGreen]

Seems a stretch to not call Bowie's goal from open play?

Realistically the Celtic games were always going to be a write off, but I'll admit our midfield was poor against St Mirren.

The game on Saturday I thought our midfield was fine though, I thought Kwon and Newell both played pretty well, the reason we never won was down to our dodgy defence gifting them goals.

It’s not a stretch if you understand what the term means, there was no “open play” between the long throw and the goal.

Sure the Celtic games were likely a write off in terms of getting a result but it’s still possible to put in a performance. We put in 2 much better performances against Celtic at Easter Road last season.

You’ve been beating the drum for this midfield taking us places for a couple of years now, without reinforcements do you expect them to eventually prove you right?

[MWHIBBIES]

Their midfield is a key factor in why they are currently 9 competitive games without defeat, 4th in the league, still in the cup and scoring 31 goals this season already.

Ours is a key factor why we are 4 games without a win, a point off the bottom of the league having failed to score a goal from open play against top flight opposition.

Playing Celtic twice is a key factor why we are 4 games without a win too. They'd leather the Dundee I saw on Saturday.

[blackpoolhibs]

Kwon, McCowan and Rudi. Aye, Rudi is young, but he's a few months older than Lennon Miller who manages to play constantly for Motherwell.

If Newell is to keep playing we need to stop playing him as a sitting midfielder.

Nail on head, i keep banging on about it, but he does things too slowly, too safely.

I will admit his options are limited a lot, i wouldnt want to give the ball to either full backs or Ekpeteta too.

Although saying all that, if he only looked up a little quicker and drove forward a little more which we've all seen him do on the ODD OCCASION we'd not be moaning about him.

Moving him further forward could get him more involved and play more urgently in less space, rather than seeing him take the ball from the keeper or between the centre halves.

We are way too slow when he's the deep laying defender, and he's the player that sets the tone of the game, the pace in which we play out from the back.

Every team we play against easily get back into position while he fannys about at the back passing the ball between the same 3 or 4 players constantly.

We've needed more urgency in the team for years, we wont get it with him playing in the position he does now.

[flash]

Nail on head, i keep banging on about it, but he does things too slowly, too safely.

I will admit his options are limited a lot, i wouldnt want to give the ball to either full backs or Ekpeteta too.

Although saying all that, if he only looked up a little quicker and drove forward a little more which we've all seen him do on the ODD OCCASION we'd not be moaning about him.

Moving him further forward could get him more involved and play more urgently in less space, rather than seeing him take the ball from the keeper or between the centre halves.

We are way too slow when he's the deep laying defender, and he's the player that sets the tone of the game, the pace in which we play out from the back.

Every team we play against easily get back into position while he fannys about at the back passing the ball between the same 3 or 4 players constantly.

We've needed more urgency in the team for years, we wont get it with him playing in the position he does now.

I like him as a footballer but i agree with every word of this.

All his best games have been when he is driving us forward which doesn't happen often enough.

I really hoped the inclusion of Kwon would free him up on Saturday but it probably had the reverse effect, particularly in the first half.

A midfield of Kwon, McCowan (or another new signing) and Newell looks pretty good to me if it means Joe forgets about being the quarterback and moves further up the park.

[Smartie]

I like him as a footballer but i agree with every word of this.

All his best games have been when he is driving us forward which doesn't happen often enough.

I really hoped the inclusion of Kwon would free him up on Saturday but it probably had the reverse effect, particularly in the first half.

A midfield of Kwon, McCowan (or another new signing) and Newell looks pretty good to me if it means Joe forgets about being the quarterback and moves further up the park.

I remember when he was getting quite a lot of grief not long after joining us, at least one player came out and pointed out that they couldn't get the ball off him in training.

He has it in him, even our first goal on Saturday came from him getting the ball to feet just outside their box and trying to beat players. His most memorable performances (Luzern amongst them) have generally been characterised by driving with the ball.

I can't really fathom why he doesn't try to do it more because the slow, tippy tappy Newell is a far cry from the driving one - and both exist. I accept that slowing it down has a time and a place but too often we're not in that place (ie we're chasing a game rather than trying to close it out).

[JimBHibees]

Nail on head, i keep banging on about it, but he does things too slowly, too safely.

I will admit his options are limited a lot, i wouldnt want to give the ball to either full backs or Ekpeteta too.

Although saying all that, if he only looked up a little quicker and drove forward a little more which we've all seen him do on the ODD OCCASION we'd not be moaning about him.

Moving him further forward could get him more involved and play more urgently in less space, rather than seeing him take the ball from the keeper or between the centre halves.

We are way too slow when he's the deep laying defender, and he's the player that sets the tone of the game, the pace in which we play out from the back.

Every team we play against easily get back into position while he fannys about at the back passing the ball between the same 3 or 4 players constantly.

We've needed more urgency in the team for years, we wont get it with him playing in the position he does now.

Very good post agree with every word. I know it is a few years back there was an example highlighted by bbc at half time in the cup final we lost to Saints ball pinged into Newell opportunity to control back foot and turn and play pass forward to unmarked player. Took an age to control didn’t turn then popped back to goalie or centre back. Not sure he is a natural in that role at all

[JimBHibees]

Their midfield is a key factor in why they are currently 9 competitive games without defeat, 4th in the league, still in the cup and scoring 31 goals this season already.

Ours is a key factor why we are 4 games without a win, a point off the bottom of the league having failed to score a goal from open play against top flight opposition.

Saturday’s second goal was from open play wasn’t it

[BoomtownHibees]

Saturday’s second goal was from open play wasn’t it

From a throw in

[Steve20]

Playing Celtic twice is a key factor why we are 4 games without a win too. They'd leather the Dundee I saw on Saturday.

We'll just ignore the pumping from St Mirren and the defeat to Kelty as well then.


As for the Newell debate, he's not good enough to start for a Hibs team that has ambitions to be 3rd and challege for a cup. He's fine if we're planning on a bottom six finish.

[Fergus52]

It’s not a stretch if you understand what the term means, there was no “open play” between the long throw and the goal.

Sure the Celtic games were likely a write off in terms of getting a result but it’s still possible to put in a performance. We put in 2 much better performances against Celtic at Easter Road last season.

You’ve been beating the drum for this midfield taking us places for a couple of years now, without reinforcements do you expect them to eventually prove you right?

You're talking like our midfield has been the same for the last two seasons, despite a massive turnover in players since then.

I think we do need another midfielder in, and I'd be delighted if we sign McCowan as he'd bring qualities that our midfield currently lacks.

I just think a lot of folk on this board have a habit of massively over estimating the centre mids of other teams in our league - exemplified by Saturday when Dundee's midfield three who have all been praised massively on here did not outplay or dominate our much maligned midfield.

[Fergus52]

We'll just ignore the pumping from St Mirren and the defeat to Kelty as well then.


As for the Newell debate, he's not good enough to start for a Hibs team that has ambitions to be 3rd and challege for a cup. He's fine if we're planning on a bottom six finish.

He started every week when we came third and made the cup final?

Newell has his weaknesses but stupid OTT statements like that add absolutely nothing to the debate.

[CapitalGreen]

You're talking like our midfield has been the same for the last two seasons, despite a massive turnover in players since then.

I think we do need another midfielder in, and I'd be delighted if we sign McCowan as he'd bring qualities that our midfield currently lacks.

I just think a lot of folk on this board have a habit of massively over estimating the centre mids of other teams in our league - exemplified by Saturday when Dundee's midfield three who have all been praised massively on here did not outplay or dominate our much maligned midfield.

21/22 - Campbell and Newell were 2 of our 3 most used central midfielders by minutes played.
24/25 - Campbell and Newell are 2 of our 3 most used central midfielders by minutes played.

without reinforcements do you expect them to eventually prove you right?

[CapitalGreen]

He started every week when we came third and made the cup final?

Newell has his weaknesses but stupid OTT statements like that add absolutely nothing to the debate.

A season in which our record was better when he didn’t start.

[ozhibs]

I remember when he was getting quite a lot of grief not long after joining us, at least one player came out and pointed out that they couldn't get the ball off him in training.

He has it in him, even our first goal on Saturday came from him getting the ball to feet just outside their box and trying to beat players. His most memorable performances (Luzern amongst them) have generally been characterised by driving with the ball.

I can't really fathom why he doesn't try to do it more because the slow, tippy tappy Newell is a far cry from the driving one - and both exist. I accept that slowing it down has a time and a place but too often we're not in that place (ie we're chasing a game rather than trying to close it out).

Devil’s advocate here , maybe that is the coaches instructions, I often wonder about that.
GGTTH 🇳🇬

[MWHIBBIES]

We'll just ignore the pumping from St Mirren and the defeat to Kelty as well then.


As for the Newell debate, he's not good enough to start for a Hibs team that has ambitions to be 3rd and challege for a cup. He's fine if we're planning on a bottom six finish.

Not forgetting those at all. But I don't think we lost either because of our midfield. Certainly not Kelty.

"He's not good enough to achieve these things he's already achieved". I dunno like.

[McD]

He started every week when we came third and made the cup final?

Newell has his weaknesses but stupid OTT statements like that add absolutely nothing to the debate.



Also started every week when we’ve finished bottom 6 twice

[Fergus52]

21/22 - Campbell and Newell were 2 of our 3 most used central midfielders by minutes played.
24/25 - Campbell and Newell are 2 of our 3 most used central midfielders by minutes played.

without reinforcements do you expect them to eventually prove you right?

the sample size for the 24/25 season so far is small enough to be meaningless, especially when it looks likely we'll still be signing at least one more midfielder.

Some posters are talking like we've had Campbell, JDH and Newell starting every week together for the last three seasons, when we've had loads of midfielders come in and get significant game time in that period (Kenneh, Henderson, Jeggo, CJ Riley, Levitt, Amos, NMW etc.). Most of them haven't been particularly great though, there's no doubt we need to improve our recruitment in midfield, hopefully starting with McCowan.

Do I think we can have a successful team with Newell playing most weeks? Yeah.

I'm less keen on Campbell but I don't think he will be a regular starter this season barring an injury crisis.

[Fergus52]

A season in which our record was better when he didn’t start.

Again that stat is meaningless when the sample size of games he didn't start is so low

[Stairway 2 7]

From a throw in
Then Bowie bullied McCowan and slotted it in. McCowan was very good though

[SHODAN]

Levels above Chisholm but you know that already.

Chisholm's time at Hibs is one of my all time favourite Wikipedia quotes.

https://i.imgur.com/5Y4SlOU.png

[CapitalGreen]

Chisholm's time at Hibs is one of my all time favourite Wikipedia quotes.

https://i.imgur.com/5Y4SlOU.png

Chisolm wasn’t great but he still has more winning starts at Tynecastle and Ibrox for Hibs than any of our current midfield jokers.

[easty]

Chisolm wasn’t great but he still has more winning starts at Tynecastle and Ibrox for Hibs than any of our current midfield jokers.

Ross Caldwell has more derby winning goals, than Ryan Porteous has derby wins.

2 completely pointless stats, that tell us pretty much nothing.

[A Hi-Bee]

Ross Caldwell has more derby winning goals, than Ryan Porteous has derby wins.

2 completely pointless stats, that tell us pretty much nothing.

Along with some who never even played who have cup winners medals?

[MWHIBBIES]

Chisolm wasn’t great but he still has more winning starts at Tynecastle and Ibrox for Hibs than any of our current midfield jokers.

Aye, playing with good players with do that tbf. He wasn't very good let's be honest. When the good players left he was screwed.

Rankin, Chisholm, Keenan, and Kerr. None of them could lace even Campbells boots.

[Donegal Hibby]

TBH watching the game I didn’t really notice a lot of Kwon in the game which I think can happen with a defensive midfielder in some fans can miss the wee things they do in games , like breaking up attacks etc . What were your first impressions of him ? .

[A Hi-Bee]

TBH watching the game I didn’t really notice a lot of Kwon in the game which I think can happen with a defensive midfielder in some fans can miss the wee things they do in games , like breaking up attacks etc . What were your first impressions of him ? .

He's tall.

[The Modfather]

On the assumption McCowan doesn’t sign. What would everyone’s opinion be if they were told at the start of the window we would finish the window with midfield options of:

NMW
Campbell
Newell
Kwon
Triantis
Delfierre
Amos
JDH
Rudi
Kenneh

One more midfielder and we can field a full team of midfielders.

[JohnM1875]

On the assumption McCowan doesn’t sign. What would everyone’s opinion be if they were told at the start of the window we would finish the window with midfield options of:

NMW
Campbell
Newell
Kwon
Triantis
Delfierre
Amos
JDH
Rudi
Kenneh

One more midfielder and we can field a full team of midfielders.

Be absolutely spewing to be honest.

[greenlex]

On the assumption McCowan doesn’t sign. What would everyone’s opinion be if they were told at the start of the window we would finish the window with midfield options of:

NMW
Campbell
Newell
Kwon
Triantis
Delfierre
Amos
JDH
Rudi
Kenneh

One more midfielder and we can field a full team of midfielders.
delf is away.

[Gordy M]

On the assumption McCowan doesn’t sign. What would everyone’s opinion be if they were told at the start of the window we would finish the window with midfield options of:

NMW
Campbell
Newell
Kwon
Triantis
Delfierre
Amos
JDH
Rudi
Kenneh

One more midfielder and we can field a full team of midfielders.
Delfierre is away, JDH injured, Kenneh out the picture, leaves 7 midfielders for 4 spaces.

[IberianHibernian]

On the assumption McCowan doesn’t sign. What would everyone’s opinion be if they were told at the start of the window we would finish the window with midfield options of:

NMW
Campbell
Newell
Kwon
Triantis
Delfierre
Amos
JDH
Rudi
Kenneh

One more midfielder and we can field a full team of midfielders.Fans of all clubs have all got used to new signings whether necessary or not at transfer windows so I`d probably be disappointed not to see new signings but at same time I`m not convinced we`ll be able to sign better . Not sure other non OF teams in our league have better midfielders and when we played Dundee and St M who both have midfielders who were rated highly last season or even this month we were not exactly overrun by them . Are there qualty midfielders prepared to play in our league ( non OF ) for a season not just for a few months like our loanees last season ?

[Alfred E Newman]

On the assumption McCowan doesn’t sign. What would everyone’s opinion be if they were told at the start of the window we would finish the window with midfield options of:

NMW
Campbell
Newell
Kwon
Triantis
Delfierre
Amos
JDH
Rudi
Kenneh

One more midfielder and we can field a full team of midfielders.

Scary stuff.

[Gordy M]

Scary stuff.

But realistically only 2 or 3 will play, unless we arent playing 3 out of Bowie, Boyke, Hoilett, Kura and Youhan?

[Smartie]

On the assumption McCowan doesn’t sign. What would everyone’s opinion be if they were told at the start of the window we would finish the window with midfield options of:

NMW
Campbell
Newell
Kwon
Triantis
Delfierre
Amos
JDH
Rudi
Kenneh

One more midfielder and we can field a full team of midfielders.

Have you even got Levitt on the list?

Has there ever been a crop of players costing so much yet totally unfit for purpose?

[Ozyhibby]

Newell and Campbell survive another window. I doubt Gray will.
Kwon will need to be an absolute superstar.[emoji22]


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[K-Zazu]

Our list of midfielders is terrifying.

[The Modfather]

So Gray and Mackays first window and first chance to sort the midfield resulted in adding Kwon, 7 games into the season when I don’t see why he wouldn’t have been available for pre season, on loan to last seasons midfield.

Going hard on McCowan is to their credit, doing so up to the last hours of the transfer window with no plan B probably points to the novices in their roles they are.

[easty]

We’ll only ever play 3 of them at once.

Newell, Kwon and one of the other ones

Levitt
NMW
JDH
Triantis
Amos
Campbell
Molotnikov
Kenneh

That’ll mean 7 of the above sitting on their *****. What a waste of ****ing money this must be. I’d probably play Rudi out of them, and he’s probably the lowest paid of the 7.

[degenerated]

Our list of midfielders is terrifying.Living in Gaza or Ukraine could be described as terrifying.

Describing a list of footballers as that is just hyperbolic nonsense.

[theonlywayisup]

Really struggling to understand why we've not recruited an attacking midfielder. I know we focused energy on McCowan, but surely we had alternatives being considered.

We need to get Newell into a forward position, now that we've got Kwon and Triantis as the midfield foundation.

[B.H.F.C]

We had money available that should have went some way to rectifying the longstanding midfield issue but end up with Triantis on loan. It’s a shambles of a situation.

So, so disappointed.

[Ozyhibby]

Only addition to a dreadful midfield from last season is Kwon. And Gray thinks that is enough?


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