Graeme Mathie Away?

[Ronniekirk]

McKay assume got injured in warm up to Derby

Ah never saw subs bench today


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[calumhibee1]

Griffiths is an out of shape/conditioned waster who has ****ed up the privelage of playing his last years with a massive club. Same player *****ed continuous warnings from his paymasters to get back into shape but he acted the goat and ignored it. He is at Dundee for a reason, yeah can take a free kick, Im double his weight (debatable) and can take a free kick. The guy is a waster and thats the reason he is where he is. Lets focus on our own guys learning to take free kicks rather than wanking over a has been

Give me an out of shape goat acting waster with one of the best goals per minutes in the league last season (only behind a guy who’s just moved to the EPL for £14m) ahead of… well ahead of the nobody that we got really any day of the week.

[CL0762]

Not sure if a new thread is relevant for this but heard today that Ben Jacobs, the comms head has left/is leaving already.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Not sure if a new thread is relevant for this but heard today that Ben Jacobs, the comms head has left/is leaving already.


only joined two months ago, jeezo


A quick hello from your new Hibs content team (https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?352862-A-quick-hello-from-your-new-Hibs-content-team&highlight=benjacobs)

[JimBHibees]

Griffiths is an out of shape/conditioned waster who has ****ed up the privelage of playing his last years with a massive club. Same player *****ed continuous warnings from his paymasters to get back into shape but he acted the goat and ignored it. He is at Dundee for a reason, yeah can take a free kick, Im double his weight (debatable) and can take a free kick. The guy is a waster and thats the reason he is where he is. Lets focus on our own guys learning to take free kicks rather than wanking over a has been

They were saying on the radio he played 90 mins last week and looked reasonably fit. We should have signed him if that was the case if we were signing no other forwards.

[WhileTheChief..]

Not sure if a new thread is relevant for this but heard today that Ben Jacobs, the comms head has left/is leaving already.

It sounds like Ben doing the post-match interview with JR on Hibs TV.

[CL0762]

It sounds like Ben doing the post-match interview with JR on Hibs TV.

Aye, literally just watched that myself 😂

Seems like I’ve been fed some bull.

[Bridge hibs]

Give me an out of shape goat acting waster with one of the best goals per minutes in the league last season (only behind a guy who’s just moved to the EPL for £14m) ahead of… well ahead of the nobody that we got really any day of the week.Who has done what in the last 2 years ? Who has disrespected his paymasters ? Who has been out of shape/deconditioned ? Seems to be a law into hos own. He will get away with that **** at Dundee because they are desperate, he wouldnt get away with that **** at hibs and as much as he is a good player he would cause havoc in our group.

But he takes a good free kick 🤣

[WhileTheChief..]

Aye, literally just watched that myself 😂

Seems like I’ve been fed some bull.

I like his chat.

He gives some good little snippets from inside the club and is really enthusiastic and positive about everything Hibs.

[calumhibee1]

Who has done what in the last 2 years ? Who has disrespected his paymasters ? Who has been out of shape/deconditioned ? Seems to be a law into hos own. He will get away with that **** at Dundee because they are desperate, he wouldnt get away with that **** at hibs and as much as he is a good player he would cause havoc in our group.

But he takes a good free kick 🤣

Would he though? He didn’t cause havoc in Celtics group, why would he have done it here?

As I said, he had one of the best goals per minutes in the league last season. He was also available for the vast majority of games. When he’s on the pitch he still evidently performs.

[GreenCastle]

Not sure if a new thread is relevant for this but heard today that Ben Jacobs, the comms head has left/is leaving already.

Was he not standing chatting to some of the Hibs women’s team near south lower during game today ?

[Real Emerald]

Who has done what in the last 2 years ? Who has disrespected his paymasters ? Who has been out of shape/deconditioned ? Seems to be a law into hos own. He will get away with that **** at Dundee because they are desperate, he wouldnt get away with that **** at hibs and as much as he is a good player he would cause havoc in our group.

But he takes a good free kick 🤣

We need a striker until January, he fits the bill. Would you actually rather have no back up strikers or Leigh Griffiths? Really??

[Smartie]

Give me an out of shape goat acting waster with one of the best goals per minutes in the league last season (only behind a guy who’s just moved to the EPL for £14m) ahead of… well ahead of the nobody that we got really any day of the week.

Well, yeah - but “nobody” shouldn’t really be the bar here, should it?

We “should” have managed to find someone a bit more reliable than taking a punt on Griffiths.

It’s pretty unforgivable that we didn’t.

[Smartie]

I like his chat.

He gives some good little snippets from inside the club and is really enthusiastic and positive about everything Hibs.

I think his stuff has been great.

[Real Emerald]

Well, yeah - but “nobody” shouldn’t really be the bar here, should it?

We “should” have managed to find someone a bit more reliable than taking a punt on Griffiths.

It’s pretty unforgivable that we didn’t.

We needed a permanent additional striker, we signed Mueller but I’ve no idea if he is an out and out striker and doesn’t arrive until January. We lose Doidge so we’re really 2 strikers down. We sign Scott on a short term loan who isn’t really an out and out striker who doesn’t look fit or even good enough although that may be premature and unkind to him. We are desperate for an experienced striker to come in on a short term, no strings contract to help us out. Leigh Griffiths becomes available, international striker who’s scored scored a brace against England in one game, played many champions league games, won many league titles and cups but we let this Hibs supporting centre forward sign for Dundee in OUR hour of need???

[calumhibee1]

We needed a permanent additional striker, we signed Mueller but I’ve no idea if he is an out and out striker and doesn’t arrive until January. We lose Doidge so we’re really 2 strikers down. We sign Scott on a short term loan who isn’t really an out and out striker who doesn’t look fit or even good enough although that may be premature and unkind to him. We are desperate for an experienced striker to come in on a short term, no strings contract to help us out. Leigh Griffiths becomes available, international striker who’s scored scored a brace against England in one game, played many champions league games, won many league titles and cups but we let this Hibs supporting centre forward sign for Dundee in OUR hour of need???

:agree:

Mueller isn’t a striker so he’ll do little to fix the glaring problem.

We need someone in January. We’re probably also too late for free agents. They’ll not have been training for a while now.

[Hibee Mac]

We needed a permanent additional striker, we signed Mueller but I’ve no idea if he is an out and out striker and doesn’t arrive until January. We lose Doidge so we’re really 2 strikers down. We sign Scott on a short term loan who isn’t really an out and out striker who doesn’t look fit or even good enough although that may be premature and unkind to him. We are desperate for an experienced striker to come in on a short term, no strings contract to help us out. Leigh Griffiths becomes available, international striker who’s scored scored a brace against England in one game, played many champions league games, won many league titles and cups but we let this Hibs supporting centre forward sign for Dundee in OUR hour of need???Mueller is another winger. We still need strikers in this team above and beyond him.

[LunasBoots]

We need a striker until January, he fits the bill. Would you actually rather have no back up strikers or Leigh Griffiths? Really??

Griffiths is a proven goalscorer and has been since his Hutchy days, a half fit Griffiths still scores goals, I'm not sure who people are expecting us to sign but you won't get much better than the level of Griffiths play.

[jeffers]

We needed a permanent additional striker, we signed Mueller but I’ve no idea if he is an out and out striker and doesn’t arrive until January. We lose Doidge so we’re really 2 strikers down. We sign Scott on a short term loan who isn’t really an out and out striker who doesn’t look fit or even good enough although that may be premature and unkind to him. We are desperate for an experienced striker to come in on a short term, no strings contract to help us out. Leigh Griffiths becomes available, international striker who’s scored scored a brace against England in one game, played many champions league games, won many league titles and cups but we let this Hibs supporting centre forward sign for Dundee in OUR hour of need???

It’s hard to fathom when you put it like that. If it didn’t work out, he returns to Celtic in January. I don’t see the risk. He may not be an angel but I’ve never heard anything to suggest he doesn’t come into training and gets on with things.

Looking forward to seeing how he does in the Dundee derby tomorrow.

[calumhibee1]

Well, yeah - but “nobody” shouldn’t really be the bar here, should it?

We “should” have managed to find someone a bit more reliable than taking a punt on Griffiths.

It’s pretty unforgivable that we didn’t.

Nope it absolutely shouldn’t be. But when it became clear we weren’t getting anyone else we should have been all over a deal for him.

[calumhibee1]

It’s hard to fathom when you put it like that. If it didn’t work out, he returns to Celtic in January. I don’t see the risk. He may not be an angel but I’ve never heard anything to suggest he doesn’t come into training and gets on with things.

Looking forward to seeing how he does in the Dundee derby tomorrow.

He did go into training and get on with things. He really isn’t a whole lot of bother. Loads of people have attested to this fact that he’s played with/worked under. He comes in, trains, generally just keeps himself to himself and goes home is how he’s been described plenty times.

Whilst some may think he’s a tit or that he’s even an undesirable character, he’s absolutely fine when it comes to football.

[Real Emerald]

He did go into training and get on with things. He really isn’t a whole lot of bother. Loads of people have attested to this fact that he’s played with/worked under.

Whilst some may think he’s a tit or that he’s even an undesirable character, he’s absolutely fine when it comes to football.

Tits have their uses 👍

[Not In The Know]

Griffiths is a proven goalscorer and has been since his Hutchy days, a half fit Griffiths still scores goals, I'm not sure who people are expecting us to sign but you won't get much better than the level of Griffiths play.
Pains me to say it but he’s damaged goods.

everyone deserves a second /third chance but not here when we are upping our commercial game.

[Not In The Know]

Griffiths is a proven goalscorer and has been since his Hutchy days, a half fit Griffiths still scores goals, I'm not sure who people are expecting us to sign but you won't get much better than the level of Griffiths play.
Pains me to say it but he’s damaged goods.

everyone deserves a second /third chance but not at is when we are upping our commercial game.

[Bridge hibs]

Would he though? He didn’t cause havoc in Celtics group, why would he have done it here?

As I said, he had one of the best goals per minutes in the league last season. He was also available for the vast majority of games. When he’s on the pitch he still evidently performs.He did cause havoc, Lennon played Christie up front in games. Griffiths should have been on that park, why wasnt he ? Edouard couldnt score in a barrel of fannies, niether could Ajeti, where was super Leigh when they needed him ?

[calumhibee1]

He did cause havoc, Lennon played Christie up front in games. Griffiths should have been on that park, why wasnt he ? Edouard couldnt score in a barrel of fannies, niether could Ajeti, where was super Leigh when they needed him ?

Lennon is an absolute tit who presided over what became the worst Celtic team since the 90s from a point of having won god knows how many domestic trophies in a row (with Griffiths in the team). I’d question the fact that he hardly played a guy who delivered at a very good rate when he swallowed his pride and actually put him on the pitch ahead of Griffiths himself.

Lennon needs scapegoats to deflect from his own inadequacies. We seen it here and we seen it at Celtic with Griffiths. He was available to play the vast majority of the time and done fairly well when he played.

[Bridge hibs]

We need a striker until January, he fits the bill. Would you actually rather have no back up strikers or Leigh Griffiths? Really??Did I say we didnt need a back up Striker ? Really ? Griffiths ? Nope , if JR didnt fancy him then fair enough, I trust JR

[B.H.F.C]

Did I say we didnt need a back up Striker ? Really ? Griffiths ? Nope , if JR didnt fancy him then fair enough, I trust JR

Nisbet non existent today, much like last week. Griffiths would be a million times better than the option we have on the bench at present….

[Bridge hibs]

Lennon is an absolute tit who presided over what became the worst Celtic team since the 90s from a point of having won god knows how many domestic trophies in a row (with Griffiths in the team). I’d question the fact that he hardly played a guy who delivered at a very good rate when he swallowed his pride and actually put him on the pitch ahead of Griffiths himself.

Lennon needs scapegoats to deflect from his own inadequacies. We seen it here and we seen it at Celtic with Griffiths. He was available to play the vast majority of the time and done fairly well when he played.Griffiths had a fitness programme to work on and he turned up at training out of shape and not ready to start games. If he done that at hibs could you imagine the uproar ? Hero to zero at a cost. No thanks

[Ronniekirk]

Mueller is another winger. We still need strikers in this team above and beyond him.

So he could play in the Murphy role ,if he continues to be in and out of the team with injury


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[Bridge hibs]

Nisbet non existent today, much like last week. Griffiths would be a million times better than the option we have on the bench at present….Knock a hibs player for a waster plying his trade for the mighty Dundee, cool support mate 👍

[Smartie]

Knock a hibs player for a waster plying his trade for the mighty Dundee, cool support mate 👍

Nisbet was absolutely terrible today though.

Not his day at all.

He needed hooked, it just didn’t look like one of those games he was going to warm into.

[Liam978]

I like his chat.

He gives some good little snippets from inside the club and is really enthusiastic and positive about everything Hibs.

Just saw your post Chiefy thank you for that. i know Grahame personally since he did me a great favour with a close friend who was dying. Also how he was heart broken after trying to save chief scout Mikey Meechan's job. Leeann saw his qualities, most of all the bubbly and enthusiastic character that he is.

[Bridge hibs]

Nisbet was absolutely terrible today though.

Not his day at all.

He needed hooked, it just didn’t look like one of those games he was going to warm into.He was, looked lost and I felt he had no support either, he needs a partner, we are so missing Doidge

[GreenCastle]

Mueller like Scott isn’t a goal scorer.

Murphy - Mueller - McKay - Scott - all very similar.

We need someone who can score goals and take the pressure off Nisbet and Boyle.

I would be surprised if Doidge is back before Xmas - I know it was said November but it’s a horrible injury and takes time to build up.

[Bridge hibs]

Mueller like Scott isn’t a goal scorer.

Murphy - Mueller - McKay - Scott - all very similar.

We need someone who can score goals and take the pressure off Nisbet and Boyle.

I would be surprised if Doidge is back before Xmas - I know it was said November but it’s a horrible injury and takes time to build up.We are scoring goals though, admittedly we are relying on Nisbet as sole Striker, however my concern is more conceding, we are still lame at the back and that needs sorted

[tmb1875]

I still find it utterly mental that we had a loan bid accepted from Celtic for Griffiths yet we never got in contact beforehand or in time before he signed with Dundee. Absolute free hit yet we messed it up. He played a full 90mins last week was unlucky not to score, in the team of the week. Bet your bottom dollar on him scoring or assisting tomoro. He will always score goals no matter who or where he plays. Hope he gets his mojo back and we get him on a pre contract for next season.


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[madhatter]

We are scoring goals though, admittedly we are relying on Nisbet as sole Striker, however my concern is more conceding, we are still lame at the back and that needs sorted

You need to defend from the front. I like Nisbet but his workrate can be absolutely terrible. Had he picked himself up from lying on the ground by the time St Mirren scored? From what I remember did he not try to skin a defender, failed and fell to the ground and lay there for a few seconds as St Mirren came at us?

Doidge works a lot harder for the team. We miss him massively.

[Allez Hibs]

I know there’s a lot of controversy on the subject but Leigh Griffiths was available on a short term loan. What other Hibs supporting international striker, best finisher in the country could have helped us out over this striker crisis?

Suggesting anything about Leigh Griffiths courts controversy I was told on the match day thread. We are in a results driven business as Mathie has found out.

[Allez Hibs]

I said the same when Nisbet stepped over the free kick with the last kick of the game

It’s criminal that we need a striker so badly and he’s went to Dundee.

100%

And we let him go to Dundee. Madness.

[Allez Hibs]

You need to defend from the front. I like Nisbet but his workrate can be absolutely terrible. Had he picked himself up from lying on the ground by the time St Mirren scored? From what I remember did he not try to skin a defender, failed and fell to the ground and lay there for a few seconds as St Mirren came at us?

Doidge works a lot harder for the team. We miss him massively.

Nisbet reminded me of a young Cummings today. Caught offside stupidly. Switched off when the ball went past him but if he stayed concentrated he could have fought for the second ball. Hold up play was poor and just didn't look at it today.

[Hibee Mac]

You need to defend from the front. I like Nisbet but his workrate can be absolutely terrible. Had he picked himself up from lying on the ground by the time St Mirren scored? From what I remember did he not try to skin a defender, failed and fell to the ground and lay there for a few seconds as St Mirren came at us?

Doidge works a lot harder for the team. We miss him massively.I was very unimpressed with his lack of work rate today and that moment topped it off for me.

First time I've seen him in person and was far from enamoured. Although he obviously has quality there's no excuse for not giving 100% effort for the good of the team, disappointing today.

[Ronniekirk]

Nisbet was absolutely terrible today though.

Not his day at all.

He needed hooked, it just didn’t look like one of those games he was going to warm into.

I take it he hasn’t signed the new contract on offer


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[blackpoolhibs]

I don’t see what’s wrong with that.

He’s come into the debate with an opinion but upon reading what was quite frankly a brilliant post by me, he was open minded enough to change his mind.

Not enough people willing to change their mind on here IMO. If you’re debating with an open mind it should happen more often. If you’re debating with a closed mind you’re as well speaking to a wall.
:greengrin:top marks

[Iain G]

100%

And we let him go to Dundee. Madness.

I think Celtic let him go to Dundee?

[CMurdoch]

I still find it utterly mental that we had a loan bid accepted from Celtic for Griffiths yet we never got in contact beforehand or in time before he signed with Dundee. Absolute free hit yet we messed it up. He played a full 90mins last week was unlucky not to score, in the team of the week. Bet your bottom dollar on him scoring or assisting tomoro. He will always score goals no matter who or where he plays. Hope he gets his mojo back and we get him on a pre contract for next season.


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Bad news, lost bottom dollar.
Griffiths now 0 from 2

[Allez Hibs]

Bad news, lost bottom dollar.
Griffiths now 0 from 2

Kevin Nisbet 1 from 4 in league.

[Brightside]

Kevin Nisbet 1 from 4 in league.

Lets support our own players. Kevin Nisbet is a much better option than LG.

[Torto7]

Dissapointing to see so many willing to give creepy Leigh a shot.

[Since90+2]

Griffiths didn't exactly look great against United yesterday. Actually looked a bit overweight to me.

[Since452]

Would Griffiths come in and improve us? I saw no evidence that he would watching him yesterday.

[CMurdoch]

Kevin Nisbet 1 from 4 in league.

Classic strawman arguement.
Guy said bet your bottom dollar Griffiths scores or assists in Dundee Derby.
He didn't.
Dollar lost.
Nisbet not mentioned therefore not relevant to post in question.

[bingo70]

Strange nothing said officially about Mathie leaving yet?

I wonder if we’re appointing his replacement at the same time as him Leaving?

[offshorehibby]

More than likely in the hands of his lawyers getting a better pay off

[calumhibee1]

Would Griffiths come in and improve us? I saw no evidence that he would watching him yesterday.

Improve our starting line up? Possibly not. Improve us as a whole? No doubt about it imo especially as we don’t have anyone other than Nisbet to play as a striker.

[Mr. Wonderful]

Griffiths didn't exactly look great against United yesterday. Actually looked a bit overweight to me.

Seems to have lost an edge to his game that he once had. I always felt he played like he had a point to prove and that that aggression was half of what made him what he was in his pomp, along with his goalscoring ability.

That said, Dundee didn't exactly give him an immense amount of service. Needs more games before conclusions can be drawn.

[tmb1875]

Bad news, lost bottom dollar.
Griffiths now 0 from 2

Good thing I’m not a betting man then eh! He missed a couple chances yesterday by all accounts. I still think he’ll score a few goals for Dundee and would have been a very good addition to our team.


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[AL-Qaholik]

If anybody genuinely believes Griffiths wouldn't improve (at the very least) our options from the bench, I despair.

[flash]

Kevin Nisbet 1 from 4 in league.

What's your point caller?

[jacomo]

If anybody genuinely believes Griffiths wouldn't improve (at the very least) our options from the bench, I despair.


If that was the only consideration then fine.

But it’s also about the dynamics of the group and having a harmonious squad.

After a career as a workmanlike full back, Jack seems to prize dedication and application to the task.

[GreenPJ]

I was very unimpressed with his lack of work rate today and that moment topped it off for me.

First time I've seen him in person and was far from enamoured. Although he obviously has quality there's no excuse for not giving 100% effort for the good of the team, disappointing today.

I am convinced that KN was not fully fit on Saturday. Having seen him in other games his work rate is very good normally but the work rate was not there on Saturday and his first touch which is normally very good was poor.

I also think Boyle looked out of sorts.

[CockneyRebel]

Strange nothing said officially about Mathie leaving yet?

I wonder if we’re appointing his replacement at the same time as him Leaving?


Do we actually know for sure that he is being let go? Maybe he wasn't getting the backing he needed or expected and decided to leave.

Just a thought.

[007]

Do we actually know for sure that he is being let go? Maybe he wasn't getting the backing he needed or expected and decided to leave.

Just a thought.

It's a little odd that nothing official has come out to either confirm or deny what has been reported. The only explanation that I can think of is that he's been put on gardening leave and the club will issue something once the gardening leave period is up.

[HFC93]

If anybody genuinely believes Griffiths wouldn't improve (at the very least) our options from the bench, I despair.

Is Leigh Griffiths stiil a good player? Yes.
Is he worth the baggage? Debatable.

[Is It On....]

I hope that Graham Mathie leaving signals an attempt to improve our current data driven recruitment rather than move away from it. Unlike some, I am quite happy with the get better slowly approach and, whilst sometimes the signings don't always work, we continue to trust in the process. I actually see the recent lack of transfer deadline day action as a positive as it meant we were not doing panic business. Yes I would have liked to see another striker but if the players we had identified were not available then I would rather we just wait and identify other options for the January window. I personally love signings like JDH who was described as an underwhelming signing at the time but has clearly made a difference to the team.

[Ronniekirk]

Is Leigh Griffiths stiil a good player? Yes.
Is he worth the baggage? Debatable.

Has he scored for Dundee yet ?


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[Ronniekirk]

I hope that Graham Mathie leaving signals an attempt to improve our current data driven recruitment rather than move away from it. Unlike some, I am quite happy with the get better slowly approach and, whilst sometimes the signings don't always work, we continue to trust in the process. I actually see the recent lack of transfer deadline day action as a positive as it meant we were not doing panic business. Yes I would have liked to see another striker but if the players we had identified were not available then I would rather we just wait and identify other options for the January window. I personally love signings like JDH who was described as an underwhelming signing at the time but has clearly made a difference to the team.

Who knows the real nitty gritty about what happened this window But it’s clear we needed a Striker and it would of been clear Nisbet on his own up top would struggle in some games .it could of been what turned two draws into wins Though you could also argue better defending would of got us the wins as well
My expectation is we should be in third place come the January window opening
Clearly injuries to players are the one thing that could derail that And fir me Doidge is the biggest miss and the one player we have no cover for at all
His absence could see us drop out the top three depending on others teams form
Wood is untried so far so remains to be seen if he could be a useful asset




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[eastmainsmsh]

What about John Park but see he is in Poland

[Peevemor]

What about John Park but see he is in Poland

John Park did a great job at Hibs scouting & recruiting youngsters. Graeme Mathie is/was effectively our director of football - a much bigger job.

Maybe John Park would be great at it - but it's not a job he's done before as far as I'm aware.

[Billy Whizz]

What about John Park but see he is in Poland

John Park is a scout, and there lies some of our problems
Graeme was head of scouting, prior to replacing George Craig in Jan 2020
When he went into the Sporting Director role, his job wasn’t replaced. Our main scout who looked at players for us, scouted our next opponents was then made redundant last year.
Jack them used Stephen Mcginn to do some watch day tactics. That’s 2 key jobs taken out of Graeme’s team
No idea who does all this now

[CMurdoch]

Good thing I’m not a betting man then eh! He missed a couple chances yesterday by all accounts. I still think he’ll score a few goals for Dundee and would have been a very good addition to our team. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Positives for Griffiths yesterday, 1 beautifully timed shot and a header just past the post.
He missed a very good chance and struck a poor free kick. So still not ready.
He was keeping 3 other decent strikers out the team yesterday, all of whom eventually came on (Cummings, Jacubiak & Sheridan)
I reckon the return of Adam will see Griffiths score his 1st goal.
As things stand it's easy to see why he wasn't getting a look in at Celtic.
Needs minutes on the pitch and discipline of it.
McPake is certainly giving him a chance.

[007]

Ben Kensell saying Mathie still employed but that's all he can say. All a bit strange, must be gardening leave or some kind of employment law dispute going on. Can't think what else it could be.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hibs-chief-ben-kensell-remaining-tight-lipped-over-graeme-mathie-situation-3389674

[Smartie]

Ben Kensell saying Mathie still employed but that's all he can say. All a bit strange, must be gardening leave or some kind of employment law dispute going on. Can't think what else it could be.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hibs-chief-ben-kensell-remaining-tight-lipped-over-graeme-mathie-situation-3389674

Could he be being shuffled back into what was his previous role, with someone else coming in to take on the "George Craig" role again? That was probably the time when things worked best.

I agree that the most likely reason is that the terms of his departure are being thrashed out and that there is a limit to what anyone at Hibs is legally allowed to say on the record about what is going on.

[CMurdoch]

Could he be being shuffled back into what was his previous role, with someone else coming in to take on the "George Craig" role again? That was probably the time when things worked best.I agree that the most likely reason is that the terms of his departure are being thrashed out and that there is a limit to what anyone at Hibs is legally allowed to say on the record about what is going on.That is a sad and sour way for things to end for Graeme at HibsThe end of Tam the kit man appeared a sad effort as well.

[Bay Area Hibees]

That is a sad and sour way for things to end for Graeme at HibsThe end of Tam the kit man appeared a sad effort as well.

Agree realize people have to make hard choices. Tam the kit man seems un-necessary change albeit no idea what the reason(s) were

[FilipinoHibs]

Could he be being shuffled back into what was his previous role, with someone else coming in to take on the "George Craig" role again? That was probably the time when things worked best.

I agree that the most likely reason is that the terms of his departure are being thrashed out and that there is a limit to what anyone at Hibs is legally allowed to say on the record about what is going on.

I think technically under UK employment law you can't make somebody redundant but offer them a new post. There is a cooling off period before they leave the company after having not accepted new role which is generally a p**h position on a lower salary. That's what used to happen at the UK entity of my last company.

You can't be made redundant if your job still exists. So they move you into a new role then do away with the role.

[offshorehibby]

I think technically under UK employment law you can't make somebody redundant but offer them a new post. There is a cooling off period before they leave the company after having not accepted new role which is generally a p**h position on a lower salary. That's what used to happen at the UK entity of my last company.

You can't be made redundant if your job still exists. So they move you into a new role then do away with the role.

Downside there is if he takes the step back his heart probably won't be in and he'll probably spend as much time looking for a new job somewhere.

[Since90+2]

I think technically under UK employment law you can't make somebody redundant but offer them a new post. There is a cooling off period before they leave the company after having not accepted new role which is generally a p**h position on a lower salary. That's what used to happen at the UK entity of my last company.

You can't be made redundant if your job still exists. So they move you into a new role then do away with the role.

A person is not made redundant it's the position that is.

[Onion]

A person is not made redundant it's the position that is.

Technically, true, but how often do you find the very same role suddenly reappear after a ‘restructure’ with a slightly changed title.

[Brightside]

It won’t be redundancy. He will be sorting out a pay off. CEO clearly has a someone else in mind, and perhaps also sees some of the role being his responsibility.

[MrSmith]

Technically, true, but how often do you find the very same role suddenly reappear after a ‘restructure’ with a slightly changed title.

Exactly what happens in Further Education all the time - Senior Lecturer, Curriculum Manager, Director of Curriculum etc! Same job different title with slight change in responsibility.

[FilipinoHibs]

Exactly what happens in Further Education all the time - Senior Lecturer, Curriculum Manager, Director of Curriculum etc! Same job different title with slight change in responsibility.

In business there is not that same flexibility. So moved to a new role then made redundant because new role disappears.

[MrSmith]

In business there is not that same flexibility. So moved to a new role then made redundant because new role disappears.

Practically the same thing. What happens in FE is, (context - recent college mergers in Scotland) the Senior Lecturer role gets changed to say Curriculum Leader, the new role is then advertised with a reduced capacity to 30 from 45 originally - alongside voluntary redundancy/severance (VR/S) - to the merged pot of existing senior lecturers who are invited to interview, 30 are successful and the other 15 take VR/S or are demoted to standard lecturer.

[Is It On....]

A person is not made redundant it's the position that is.

Was just going to say the same 🙂

[Danderhall Hibs]

In business there is not that same flexibility. So moved to a new role then made redundant because new role disappears.

New role has to be a certain %age different. Can’t remember the number?

[jacomo]

I think technically under UK employment law you can't make somebody redundant but offer them a new post. There is a cooling off period before they leave the company after having not accepted new role which is generally a p**h position on a lower salary. That's what used to happen at the UK entity of my last company.

You can't be made redundant if your job still exists. So they move you into a new role then do away with the role.


Technically it’s the role that’s made redundant, not the person.

You don’t have to offer a new role if a suitable one isn’t available.

[J-C]

Graeme Mathie used to be Head of Recruitment, basically Chief Scout, Craig and Leeann were both involved in player negotiation, remember Leeann flying out to secure Kamberi's signature. When Craig left the new position title changed and Mathie took over both Head of Recruitment and DOF duties, I think the problem could simply be he's a very good scout but maybe not so good at the negotiation side of things.

[Hibs90]

With the CEO's comments (or lack of) yesterday, made me think it was his decision. Maybe wants to bring his own person in.

[Hibee Mac]

Graeme Mathie used to be Head of Recruitment, basically Chief Scout, Craig and Leeann were both involved in player negotiation, remember Leeann flying out to secure Kamberi's signature. When Craig left the new position title changed and Mathie took over both Head of Recruitment and DOF duties, I think the problem could simply be he's a very good scout but maybe not so good at the negotiation side of things.Pure speculation but I think this is probably the most likely explanation. I remember being a bit surprised when he was given the DoF job considering he'd only been our chief scout before that.

Might want to get someone in who can really push us to the next level in such an important role at our club.

[truehibernian]

Kensell strikes me as no nonsense and performance driven. Player recruitment is a difficult negotiation at the best of times but the fact Ojo, McRorie, and McGrath failing to materialise despite being as good as done, as well as being in the public domain, and the failed sale of Doig despite (again) appearing ‘done’ has been Mathie’s undoing. No other way to read it. I think it’s harsh to be honest, especially when the three players I mention wouldn’t add quality to our squad. I did hear (from a good Jambo source) that RG was very unhappy that the Doig transfer failed to get finalised as this set back other recruitment plans.

[Magpie]

This is the perfect time for a fresh start and a change of approach to take us to the next level. A lot of positives at the club at the moment I feel.

[jacomo]

Kensell strikes me as no nonsense and performance driven. Player recruitment is a difficult negotiation at the best of times but the fact Ojo, McRorie, and McGrath failing to materialise despite being as good as done, as well as being in the public domain, and the failed sale of Doig despite (again) appearing ‘done’ has been Mathie’s undoing. No other way to read it. I think it’s harsh to be honest, especially when the three players I mention wouldn’t add quality to our squad. I did hear (from a good Jambo source) that RG was very unhappy that the Doig transfer failed to get finalised as this set back other recruitment plans.


McCrorie is a big miss imo.

[ahibby]

New role has to be a certain %age different. Can’t remember the number?

Cant be 60 percent or more same, I believe

[Since452]

McCrorie is a big miss imo.

He's been very poor for Aberdeen apparently

[calumhibee1]

Cant be 60 percent or more same, I believe

I presume it’s nigh on impossible to actually measure that and isn’t really ‘enforced’

[truehibernian]

McCrorie is a big miss imo.

Really don't see it J - another who The Rangers hyped after limited appearances. Each time I see him for Aberdeen makes me convinced we aren't missing out. The only thing I'd say in his defence is Aberdeen are playing him in numerous positions - which in itself is a concern for me.

[BoomtownHibees]

Really don't see it J - another who The Rangers hyped after limited appearances. Each time I see him for Aberdeen makes me convinced we aren't missing out. The only thing I'd say in his defence is Aberdeen are playing him in numerous positions - which in itself is a concern for me.

Is it not a concern in itself that we were pretty much ‘all-in’ for players such as McCrorie and Ojo who, as you say, wouldn’t improve us?

[Peevemor]

Is it not a concern in itself that we were pretty much ‘all-in’ for players such as McCrorie and Ojo who, as you say, wouldn’t improve us?Maybe that's why they signed for Aberdeen - that we didn't think they were worth as much as Aberdeen were willing to pay?

[BoomtownHibees]

Maybe that's why they signed for Aberdeen - that we didn't think they were worth as much as Aberdeen were willing to pay?

Possibly. But regardless of wages on offer, were we looking at players who weren’t going to improve us? We weren’t buying them as squad players either

[MrSmith]

I think the real Ron is emerging!

[Lago]

I think the real Ron is emerging!
Good, a strong leader.

[MrSmith]

Good, a strong leader.

The media mogul and business man.

[truehibernian]

I think the real Ron is emerging!

Ann Budge = self preservation, self interest, self importance

Ron Gordon = bigger picture, bigger ideas, long term growth

They are the wee team really :aok:

[jacomo]

Ann Budge = self preservation, self interest, self importance

Ron Gordon = bigger picture, bigger ideas, long term growth

They are the wee team really :aok:


Can’t be true. Ron relies on Ann for advice.

(Source: Ann Budge)

[Peevemor]

Ron might be a football fan but owning a club is obviously new to him.

Leeann was here when he took over and, while she would have helped with the transition, she did seem to have taken us as far as she could.

Now that he's appointed Ben Kensell, I wonder if this is Ron showing him that he's willing to delegate and give him a free(ish) rein to do his job.

[hibbysam]

Maybe that's why they signed for Aberdeen - that we didn't think they were worth as much as Aberdeen were willing to pay?

We certainly thought they were worth signing, just because Aberdeen may have went above our offer in the end, we were obviously offering a fair whack considering they had basically signed.

[Peevemor]

We certainly thought they were worth signing, just because Aberdeen may have went above our offer in the end, we were obviously offering a fair whack considering they had basically signed.

We may still have had a maximum value (wage) that we were unwilling to surpass.

[J-C]

We certainly thought they were worth signing, just because Aberdeen may have went above our offer in the end, we were obviously offering a fair whack considering they had basically signed.

I don't think McCrorie signed for any more money, just that Aberdeen were happy to do a year loan first before signing him, which was what Rangers wanted, we wanted the deal done asap, no loan. Ojo definitely went for more cash, his agent was at it and played a blinder for his client getting Aberdeen to stump up more money. The McCrorie deal was a strange one as we did exactly the same deal with Murphy, a loan and then a contract.

[Green Badger]

I don't think McCrorie signed for any more money, just that Aberdeen were happy to do a year loan first before signing him, which was what Rangers wanted, we wanted the deal done asap, no loan. Ojo definitely went for more cash, his agent was at it and played a blinder for his client getting Aberdeen to stump up more money. The McCrorie deal was a strange one as we did exactly the same deal with Murphy, a loan and then a contract.

Probably a case of once bitten twice shy.

[bigwheel]

I don't think McCrorie signed for any more money, just that Aberdeen were happy to do a year loan first before signing him, which was what Rangers wanted, we wanted the deal done asap, no loan. Ojo definitely went for more cash, his agent was at it and played a blinder for his client getting Aberdeen to stump up more money. The McCrorie deal was a strange one as we did exactly the same deal with Murphy, a loan and then a contract.

That doesn’t match up with how Hibs talked about the deal. They had agreed a deal with McCrorie and Rangers. Thought it was a done deal. Aberdeen turned his head, was definitely implied money was part of it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Peevemor]

I don't think McCrorie signed for any more money, just that Aberdeen were happy to do a year loan first before signing him, which was what Rangers wanted, we wanted the deal done asap, no loan. Ojo definitely went for more cash, his agent was at it and played a blinder for his client getting Aberdeen to stump up more money. The McCrorie deal was a strange one as we did exactly the same deal with Murphy, a loan and then a contract.


That's not the case. On the Longbangers podcast Mathie was critical of the player, not the club.


"“If you go into negotiations being honest with people – and you build relationships with people, and speak very openly with people – and they don't show you the same courtesy back, that’s the bit that gets me.


"All I ever expect is the same in return. If somebody wants to speak to another club or doesn’t want to come here for whatever reason, all I would expect is for them to tell me.

"Whether they think they’ve made the right decision in going to another club is almost secondary to that aspect.”


https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/sport/football/graeme-mathie-docherty-mccrorie-hibs-18836574

[J-C]

That doesn’t match up with how Hibs talked about the deal. They had agreed a deal with McCrorie and Rangers. Thought it was a done deal. Aberdeen turned his head, was definitely implied money was part of it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


TBH whatever happened with that deal it was pretty embarrassing at the time, Rangers leaked the story so it was out in the open but still cringeworthy how it all came about, especially just after losing out on Ojo. I think the summer window was the last straw for Mathie, even Ross has mentioned his frustration a few times in recent press conferences.

[bigwheel]

TBH whatever happened with that deal it was pretty embarrassing at the time, Rangers leaked the story so it was out in the open but still cringeworthy how it all came about, especially just after losing out on Ojo. I think the summer window was the last straw for Mathie, even Ross has mentioned his frustration a few times in recent press conferences.

I’d agree with that. There seems to be been a large number of near miss signings or late failures to turn someone’s head towards us over the last few years. Often rationalised that “we didn’t really want them anyway”. Those two examples were our first choice signings each time, and we failed to secure them. It’s about time we started to more regularly secure our first choice targets.

[Brightside]

People are confusing to guess on the details of deals that did or didn’t happen. We don’t know.

[Andy74]

I don't know where the full quote or interview is but the BBC gossip column has Ron admitting that Hibs left their transfer business a little too late at the end of the window.

[bingo70]

I don't know where the full quote or interview is but the BBC gossip column has Ron admitting that Hibs left their transfer business a little too late at the end of the window.

I read that story on Edinburgh Live this morning.

Too lazy to go looking for it again though, sorry 😉

[blackpoolhibs]

I don't think McCrorie signed for any more money, just that Aberdeen were happy to do a year loan first before signing him, which was what Rangers wanted, we wanted the deal done asap, no loan. Ojo definitely went for more cash, his agent was at it and played a blinder for his client getting Aberdeen to stump up more money. The McCrorie deal was a strange one as we did exactly the same deal with Murphy, a loan and then a contract.

I dont believe that version, because of the Murphy deal. The signing of McCrorie was as good as a normal signing except he couldnt play against them.

Signing Murphy showed we are willing to do that deal to get a player, in my opinion he went for more money, as 99% of them do.

[Allez Hibs]

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/ron-gordon-on-the-lessons-hibs-must-learn-from-summer-transfer-scramble-3393154

Ron is a straight shooter.

[calumhibee1]

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/ron-gordon-on-the-lessons-hibs-must-learn-from-summer-transfer-scramble-3393154

Ron is a straight shooter.

As good as confirms why Mathie is away.

I love Ron. He seems like he will never just write anything off as just being the way it is like we seem to have done for a long time. If he wants something changed, he’ll go out and try and make it happen.

We’ve spent years scrambling about at the end of transfer windows. People have continually questioned why we do it to be told that it’s because that’s when the good players become available. Clearly Ron Gordon feels that doesn’t need to be the case and that can only benefit us, especially if we’re aiming for Europe each year where it’ll hopefully see us much better prepared than we usually are. If we carried on as we usually do we’d never progress far in Europe as we’ll always be well short in certain positions and essentially be hamstrung.

[Peevemor]

As good as confirms why Mathie is away.

Not really.


“Unfortunately we left a lot of these things a little too late. It is surprising to me just how many things happen at the last minute because you have three months to get these things done but nobody wants to move ‘til the end and then it’s a scramble.


“I think we have to learn from that. We can prepare a bit better, we can be on the front foot in terms of what we want to do but, overall, I still think we had a good window.


He also says


With sporting director Graeme Mathie told he can officially move on as soon as a settlement package can be agreed, the club are exploring the right model for pressing forward.


“We are still looking at that. We set some task forces up about eight months ago to look at the football department. That includes all the first team and support structure, the development team, although we are probably going to make that more of an U-23 team, and then we have the U-18s and the academy. We are also looking to bring women’s football into the football department, although I don’t exactly know the timing, but the club is committed to that.


“I’m very happy with the support structure, the nutrition, the health and sports medicine, so, we have a good core. It is just a question right now of what we want to do with some of these other elements; the academy, the development team etc, and how we manage all that.”


So either transfer window dealings (or lack of), the bigger picture, or both?

[calumhibee1]

Not really.



He also says



So either transfer window dealings (or lack of), the bigger picture, or both?

That’s true with regards to whether there was more to it but I’d suggest that the interview as good as confirms that the way the transfer window unfolded (and potentially previous ones) wasn’t good enough for RG.

There may well have been some more to it but I’d take from that interview that RG can’t understand why we were scrambling around last minute for players and it should have been done a lot sooner.

[Brightside]

That’s true with regards to whether there was more to it but I’d suggest that the interview as good as confirms that the way the transfer window unfolded (and potentially previous ones) wasn’t good enough for RG.

There may well have been some more to it but I’d take from that interview that RG can’t understand why we were scrambling around last minute for players and it should have been done a lot sooner.

He clearly states he’s knows that no one wants to move to last minute. 😂

[Billy Whizz]

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/ron-gordon-on-the-lessons-hibs-must-learn-from-summer-transfer-scramble-3393154

Ron is a straight shooter.

So who’s running the club, Ron or Ben

[Andy74]

So who’s running the club, Ron or Ben

Ben will run the club day to day under the strategic direction provided by Ron and the rest of the Board.

[MrSmith]

That was a great read! Talking about the restructuring of the football dept. I could see John Collins fitting right in in relation to squad age, sports and nutrition sciences.

[Peevemor]

that was a great read! Talking about the restructuring of the football dept. I could see John Collins fitting right in in relation to squad age, sports and nutrition sciences.

I really hope not.

[MrSmith]

I really hope not.

I would like to think there is a place for JC. He worked at those very sciences from a young age and, ensuring this was instilled in young players, would be an excellent addition to our progress going forward.

[BegbieHSC]

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/ron-gordon-on-the-lessons-hibs-must-learn-from-summer-transfer-scramble-3393154

Ron is a straight shooter.

I’m curious about the plans for the development team and academy. What’s the difference between a development team, an U-23s, and U-18s?

[Brightside]

I would like to think there is a place for JC. He worked at those very sciences from a young age and, ensuring this was instilled in young players, would be an excellent addition to our progress going forward.

Where is he doing that at the moment?

[Brightside]

I’m curious about the plans for the development team and academy. What’s the difference between a development team, an U-23s, and U-18s?

Dev team is the reserves. U23s is basically another name for that.

[calumhibee1]

He clearly states he’s knows that no one wants to move to last minute. 😂

He clearly states he wants us to learn from it and be on the front foot.😂

[Peevemor]

I would like to think there is a place for JC. He worked at those very sciences from a young age and, ensuring this was instilled in young players, would be an excellent addition to our progress going forward.

Daz, Lewis & SDG are probably more up to date on sports science & nutrition than John Collins. From what I can gather they also have exemplary styles of life away from the pitch. They don't have Billy-bigbaws attitudes either.

Just sayin' :wink:

[Brightside]

He clearly states he wants us to learn from it and be on the front foot.😂

It wont stop last minute deals not going through... 100s are in that boat.

[bigwheel]

It wont stop last minute deals not going through... 100s are in that boat.

It won’t for sure - availability , panic and value will always drive that …it is an interesting change of tone though. Many on here were questioning how slow and late we were in the last window ..and it appears our owners shares that view to some extent …

[MrSmith]

Daz, Lewis & SDG are probably more up to date on sports science & nutrition than John Collins. From what I can gather they also have exemplary styles of life away from the pitch. They don't have Billy-bigbaws attitudes either.

Just sayin' :wink:

I know and I totally get it. If JC could become a little more humble, he has a wealth of experience to share. :greengrin

[calumhibee1]

It wont stop last minute deals not going through... 100s are in that boat.

I dont think anybody would have read what he said and come to the conclusion that’s what he was saying would happen.

We’ve sacked Mathie and a week afterwards our owner is coming out and saying he doesn’t get why it’s a last minute rush to get players in which we seem to have been particularly bad for recently and that he doesn’t want us operating like we have been in future. I don’t think anyone is thinking that means that we’ll no longer do deals at the last minute but Ron clearly thinks we rely far too heavily on them. When something goes wrong like it did this window then you’re screwed for months until the next window.

[Smartie]

I think the majority of business should be done early with the late moves being opportunistic or the icing on the cake.

Players should be arriving in advance of pre-season training and whenever the earliest competitive games come round we should have a competitive squad, albeit possibly one that is incomplete.

Obviously we don't know the full story of the last window and we have to assume that Ron knows what he's doing, but the team has been improving and moving in the right direction for years and decent recruitment has been part of that. I'm as unhappy as anyone about the end of the window and the lack of depth that we have in certain areas but I really hope we're not chucking the baby out with the bathwater, or over-reacting to one poor (ish) window where it appears that there were plenty of mitigating circumstances along the way.

[ian cruise]

Daz, Lewis & SDG are probably more up to date on sports science & nutrition than John Collins. From what I can gather they also have exemplary styles of life away from the pitch. They don't have Billy-bigbaws attitudes either.

Just sayin' :wink:

It's not so much any questions over attitude that would put me off Collins returning, more so a question over how up to date with the new introductions to the science, etc is he.

When he was our manager he was definitely looking at things people in Scotland weren't using however many of those are now the norm and the science and techniques have moved on. There's a risk that unless he's continued to keep up to date and ahead of the curve he's actually only bringing old ideas rather than new ones.

Of course he could still be at the forefront of this stuff, I don't know either way.

[calumhibee1]

I think the majority of business should be done early with the late moves being opportunistic or the icing on the cake.

Players should be arriving in advance of pre-season training and whenever the earliest competitive games come round we should have a competitive squad, albeit possibly one that is incomplete.

Obviously we don't know the full story of the last window and we have to assume that Ron knows what he's doing, but the team has been improving and moving in the right direction for years and decent recruitment has been part of that. I'm as unhappy as anyone about the end of the window and the lack of depth that we have in certain areas but I really hope we're not chucking the baby out with the bathwater, or over-reacting to one poor (ish) window where it appears that there were plenty of mitigating circumstances along the way.

You could argue January was poor as well. JR wanted a striker then and we didn’t get it, he wanted one again in July and we didn’t get it even though one of our only two is seriously injured.

It’s a vital position in the team to have so little cover for.

I’ve got a bit of a suspicion as well that Mathie was expected to get someone sold to be able to improve the overall squad. If he’s failed to do that and failed to get in a striker whilst having 8 months to do so then I’m not all that surprised Ron isn’t happy regardless of how well he has done in other areas.

[ScottB]

For me, last minute deals should be exploiting unexpected circumstances, like that boy at St Mirren’s move down south falling through, so we chanced our arm.

Last minute deals really shouldn’t be trying to tie up long term targets or needs that we’ve been chasing all window, like the CB from St Johnstone.

Of course, securing earlier may well involve paying a bit more, but I’m sure Ron either knew that, or certainly knows it now.

[Peevemor]

For me, last minute deals should be exploiting unexpected circumstances, like that boy at St Mirren’s move down south falling through, so we chanced our arm.

Last minute deals really shouldn’t be trying to tie up long term targets or needs that we’ve been chasing all window, like the CB from St Johnstone.

Of course, securing earlier may well involve paying a bit more, but I’m sure Ron either knew that, or certainly knows it now.

IIRC we put in 2 bids for the CB (Kerr) from St Johnstone, who publicly refused them both. He eventually went for £600k which is probably a bit rich for us. What would you have done differently?

[blackpoolhibs]

IIRC we put in 2 bids for the CB (Kerr) from St Johnstone, who publicly refused them both. He eventually went for £600k which is probably a bit rich for us. What would you have done differently?

Id have brought Efe back, cant believe he's playing for St Johnstone.

[hibbysam]

For me, last minute deals should be exploiting unexpected circumstances, like that boy at St Mirren’s move down south falling through, so we chanced our arm.

Last minute deals really shouldn’t be trying to tie up long term targets or needs that we’ve been chasing all window, like the CB from St Johnstone.

Of course, securing earlier may well involve paying a bit more, but I’m sure Ron either knew that, or certainly knows it now.

That’s exactly it. Our main target areas should be secured early and any last minute deals should only be where it’s an exception that will enhance our squad and we have the money for it.

[Brightside]

I dont think anybody would have read what he said and come to the conclusion that’s what he was saying would happen.

We’ve sacked Mathie and a week afterwards our owner is coming out and saying he doesn’t get why it’s a last minute rush to get players in which we seem to have been particularly bad for recently and that he doesn’t want us operating like we have been in future. I don’t think anyone is thinking that means that we’ll no longer do deals at the last minute but Ron clearly thinks we rely far too heavily on them. When something goes wrong like it did this window then you’re screwed for months until the next window.

The majority of our business was done early in the window though. Its only the CH position that they have struggled with. The other deals were all last minute requirements due to other changes.

[Brightside]

Id have brought Efe back, cant believe he's playing for St Johnstone.

:cb

[CapitalGreen]

IIRC we put in 2 bids for the CB (Kerr) from St Johnstone, who publicly refused them both. He eventually went for £600k which is probably a bit rich for us. What would you have done differently?

We put bids in for McCart which were publicly rejected, not for Kerr. McCart is still at St Johnstone.

It’s the responsibility of the recruitment team to establish whether a player is within budget and if not identify alternatives. It seems like we waited all summer on the assumption that St Johnstone would do business with us once knocked out of Europe which turned out not to be the case. When our initial bids for McCart were rejected we should have moved on to other options so we weren’t left short for our own European campaign.

[Billy Whizz]

We put bids in for McCart which were publicly rejected, not for Kerr. McCart is still at St Johnstone.

It’s the responsibility of the recruitment team to establish whether a player is within budget and if not identify alternatives. It seems like we waited all summer on the assumption that St Johnstone would do business with us once knocked out of Europe which turned out not to be the case. When our initial bids for McCart were rejected we should have moved on to other options so we weren’t left short for our own European campaign.

St Johnstone were never going to sell their 2 centre backs. Saints knew they’d get a much bigger fee for Kerr than McCart

[Peevemor]

We put bids in for McCart which were publicly rejected, not for Kerr. McCart is still at St Johnstone.


Right enough. :aok:

[Brightside]

Right enough. :aok:

Tbf we did bid for Kerr also. McCart bids came after we knew we had no chance with Kerr.

[Iain G]

You could argue January was poor as well. JR wanted a striker then and we didn’t get it, he wanted one again in July and we didn’t get it even though one of our only two is seriously injured.

It’s a vital position in the team to have so little cover for.

I’ve got a bit of a suspicion as well that Mathie was expected to get someone sold to be able to improve the overall squad. If he’s failed to do that and failed to get in a striker whilst having 8 months to do so then I’m not all that surprised Ron isn’t happy regardless of how well he has done in other areas.

But we cant force other teams to make offers we are happy with for our players? Am sure Mathie didnt conjure up a valuation for Doig (for example) on his own without agreement from Board and the Manager. If that offer didn't come in that met that valuation what is he supposed to do? :confused:

[Hibee Mac]

You could argue January was poor as well. JR wanted a striker then and we didn’t get it, he wanted one again in July and we didn’t get it even though one of our only two is seriously injured.

It’s a vital position in the team to have so little cover for.

I’ve got a bit of a suspicion as well that Mathie was expected to get someone sold to be able to improve the overall squad. If he’s failed to do that and failed to get in a striker whilst having 8 months to do so then I’m not all that surprised Ron isn’t happy regardless of how well he has done in other areas.I think Mathie was a bit hit and miss, maybe Ron want more consistently good windows.

He played some part in our great windows but he did have us questioning recruitment during the end of Lennon/Heckingbotttom eras. In particular I remember the window before he got promoted was considered poor as I was questioning at the time why promote someone who's just had a poor transfer window into the DoF role...

[Iain G]

I think Mathie was a bit hit and miss, maybe Ron want more consistently good windows.

He played some part in our great windows but he did have us questioning recruitment during the end of Lennon/Heckingbotttom eras. In particular I remember the window before he got promoted was considered poor as I was questioning at the time why promote someone who's just had a poor transfer window into the DoF role...

Not even Microsoft can guarantee consistently good windows :wink:

[calumhibee1]

But we cant force other teams to make offers we are happy with for our players? Am sure Mathie didnt conjure up a valuation for Doig (for example) on his own without agreement from Board and the Manager. If that offer didn't come in that met that valuation what is he supposed to do? :confused:

We can’t force them but maybe Mathie is expected to do a better job of selling the idea of signing someone like Doig for X amount to clubs?

Much in the same way a car salesman can’t force you to buy a car but they can convince you it’s the car you want and it’s worth what they want you to pay.

[Iain G]

We can’t force them but maybe Mathie is expected to do a better job of selling the idea of signing someone like Doig for X amount to clubs?

Much in the same way a car salesman can’t force you to buy a car but they can convince you it’s the car you want and it’s worth what they want you to pay.

Maybe he should have been on commission then :greengrin

[Peevemor]

But we cant force other teams to make offers we are happy with for our players? Am sure Mathie didnt conjure up a valuation for Doig (for example) on his own without agreement from Board and the Manager. If that offer didn't come in that met that valuation what is he supposed to do? :confused:

Moan.

[Peevemor]

I think Mathie was a bit hit and miss, maybe Ron want more consistently good windows.

He played some part in our great windows but he did have us questioning recruitment during the end of Lennon/Heckingbotttom eras. In particular I remember the window before he got promoted was considered poor as I was questioning at the time why promote someone who's just had a poor transfer window into the DoF role...

To me that says more about these 2 managers influence on recruitment than it does about Mathie.

[CapitalGreen]

St Johnstone were never going to sell their 2 centre backs. Saints knew they’d get a much bigger fee for Kerr than McCart

If Mathie had realised that earlier we may not have put all our eggs in the McCart basket and avoiding scrambling around towards the end of the window.

[Peevemor]

If Mathie had realised that earlier we may not have put all our eggs in the McCart basket and avoiding scrambling around towards the end of the window.

Are you certain that's what happened?

[jeffers]

But we cant force other teams to make offers we are happy with for our players? Am sure Mathie didnt conjure up a valuation for Doig (for example) on his own without agreement from Board and the Manager. If that offer didn't come in that met that valuation what is he supposed to do? :confused:

I think Mathie heavily influenced the valuation of Doig. Depends I suppose how you want to take his comments about him wanting to be responsible for bringing in Hibs highest ever transfer fee. It could be simply that he was trying to do the best for the club, but maybe there was a bit of ego being shown on his side. What I don’t understand though is how we can have thought Doig was about to be sold, but as far as I’m aware we got nowhere close to the supposed £5M fee we wanted ever being offered.

[Peevemor]

I think Mathie heavily influenced the valuation of Doig. Depends I suppose how you want to take his comments about him wanting to be responsible for bringing in Hibs highest ever transfer fee. It could be simply that he was trying to do the best for the club, but maybe there was a bit of ego being shown on his side. What I don’t understand though is how we can have thought Doig was about to be sold, but as far as I’m aware we got nowhere close to the supposed £5M fee we wanted ever being offered.

That comment was made in the context of Scottish clubs not getting the same money for players as elsewhere.

[jeffers]

That comment was made in the context of Scottish clubs not getting the same money for players as elsewhere.

It’s a valid point that Scottish clubs don’t, but doesn’t mean to say he needed to make the comment about bringing in our highest ever fee. I don’t think it was necessary.

[Peevemor]

It’s a valid point that Scottish clubs don’t, but doesn’t mean to say he needed to make the comment about bringing in our highest ever fee. I don’t think it was necessary.

Maybe not, but he did/does like talking. We can't have it all ways.

[Iain G]

Moan.

Yes you do :na na:

[Allez Hibs]

It’s a valid point that Scottish clubs don’t, but doesn’t mean to say he needed to make the comment about bringing in our highest ever fee. I don’t think it was necessary.

Totally agree. It was a completely unnecessary comment for him to make.

[Ronniekirk]

Mathie has also left us with Allan If we had got Mcgrath Scotty would be playing for st Mirren
Ironic given we needed him to come on and turn the game for us
We may or May not get McGrathin next Transfer window but a fitter more hungry Scott Allan may be like a new signing and be more influential in turning games our way than McGrath


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[Brightside]

McGrath was a last minute thing. We had no interest in him prior.

[Iain G]

Can we still book tickets for Graeme Mathie Away? Or is it home fans only :confused:

[jeffers]

McGrath was a last minute thing. We had no interest in him prior.

Yes we did.

[CapitalGreen]

McGrath was a last minute thing. We had no interest in him prior.

That’s not true.

[HibbyAndy]

McGrath was a last minute thing. We had no interest in him prior.

Oh yes we did

[Viva_Palmeiras]

It’s a valid point that Scottish clubs don’t, but doesn’t mean to say he needed to make the comment about bringing in our highest ever fee. I don’t think it was necessary.

Was that not about signalling? - signalling as part of negotiation gambit?

He’s said that with an intent behind it. A risky strategy perhaps esp if unrealised and leaves folks thinking serves what purpose? Well we ain’t letting out prized assets go on the cheap - make us an offer we can’t refuse - and there’s a benchmark for you - from years ago.

The danger is folks call your bluff and take a step back en masse.

making it personal and making it public maybe not such a great move but we can’t have it both ways - if we want the club to have ambition we can’t fault folks for showing some…

then again this is a football forum … :)

[calumhibee1]

McGrath was a last minute thing. We had no interest in him prior.

We definitely did.

[Brightside]

We definitely did.

When did we make an approach? I must have missed it. I honestly can’t remember us being in for him.

[Andy74]

When did we make an approach? I must have missed it. I honestly can’t remember us being in for him.

You were talking about interest, not making an approach.

[Brightside]

You were talking about interest, not making an approach.

Ok. How did we show that interest? I didn’t see us mentioned with him?

[MWHIBBIES]

Ok. How did we show that interest? I didn’t see us mentioned with him? Do you think the papers know every player Hibs are interested in?

[Brightside]

Do you think the papers know every player Hibs are interested in?

Ok. So how does everyone on here know we had an interest? I’m not aware of Jack or anyone mentioning it. And almost no one on here gets any info from HTC now.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

McGrath was a last minute thing. We had no interest in him prior.

Caught out again 🤦🏼

[Brightside]

Caught out again 🤦🏼

What are you slavering about? So a few people have said we had an interest but no one has said how they know that?

[Andy74]

Ok. So how does everyone on here know we had an interest? I’m not aware of Jack or anyone mentioning it. And almost no one on here gets any info from HTC now.

You were the one making a statement that we didn’t. How do you know?

[Brightside]

You were the one making a statement that we didn’t. How do you know?

I do not believe we had any interest in the player until his agent advised the deal at Rotherham had fallen through. Not sure why so many are getting so exited about that. For me he was a total last minute opportunity and one I’m glad we didn’t get.

[Since452]

Absolutely no clue but I wonder if Ross was annoyed that Allan almost got sold from under him? Has Mathie maybe made a monumental James Blunt of it?

[Coco Bryce]

Absolutely no clue but I wonder if Ross was annoyed that Allan almost got sold from under him? Has Mathie maybe made a monumental James Blunt of it?

One of many it seems the more you hear.

[jeffers]

I do not believe we had any interest in the player until his agent advised the deal at Rotherham had fallen through. Not sure why so many are getting so exited about that. For me he was a total last minute opportunity and one I’m glad we didn’t get.

Thought it was Boro he was signing for not Rotherham.

[Allant1981]

Thought it was Boro he was signing for not Rotherham.

Yip it was

[Brightside]

Thought it was Boro he was signing for not Rotherham.

oh aye :greengrin

[Eyrie]

I do not believe we had any interest in the player until his agent advised the deal at Rotherham had fallen through. Not sure why so many are getting so exited about that. For me he was a total last minute opportunity and one I’m glad we didn’t get.

I find the suggestion that we scrambled to put in a last minute bid for a player that we previously had no interest in to be very worrying.

More likely, Hibs were interested in the player and felt he would be a good addition, but did nothing on the assumption that he'd be out of our price range, only to then get a late opportunity to bid for him.

[Brightside]

I find the suggestion that we scrambled to put in a last minute bid for a player that we previously had no interest in to be very worrying.

More likely, Hibs were interested in the player and felt he would be a good addition, but did nothing on the assumption that he'd be out of our price range, only to then get a late opportunity to bid for him.

Well others have said with missed out on LG and Barrie Mackay etc. I don’t think we did either. For me CB is the only area we haven’t built on. We have a very good squad once everyone is available. No one in our middle 3 drops out for McGrath so he’s be another squad player. Replacing Wright?

[Eyrie]

Well others have said with missed out on LG and Barrie Mackay etc. I don’t think we did either. For me CB is the only area we haven’t built on. We have a very good squad once everyone is available. No one in our middle 3 drops out for McGrath so he’s be another squad player. Replacing Wright?

Wright was part of the swap deal, so that's likely.

I'd like Hibs to have shut down the Mackay rumour. Just say that we'd looked at him but no offer was made.

[dp00]

Id have brought Efe back, cant believe he's playing for St Johnstone.

Same efe who turned up when he wanted when he was here before and didn’t exactly do amazing at livi


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[Hibee Mac]

To me that says more about these 2 managers influence on recruitment than it does about Mathie.Well that's just opening up the whole who makes the signings argument.

To me, if you can't hold the head of scouting partly/mostly responsible for a poor transfer window then what's the point in having a head of scouting at all?

That was Mathies role at the time of the relatively poor windows I was talking about so surely is down to him in some way or another. Not just one transfer here or there but by looking at the transfer window as a whole reflects on the head of scouting if you ask me.

[Ozyhibby]

One thing we can take from all this is that RG does not appear to be the type to let a business drift. He is all about expansion. And he demands results. That’s all good for me.[emoji106]


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[Winston Ingram]

McGrath was a last minute thing. We had no interest in him prior.

Not true

[Winston Ingram]

Id have brought Efe back, cant believe he's playing for St Johnstone.

Who struggled to hold down a place a Livi last year and ended up getting released?

[JimBHibees]

Ok. So how does everyone on here know we had an interest? I’m not aware of Jack or anyone mentioning it. And almost no one on here gets any info from HTC now.

Yes interesting all these people that now knew about the interest that at no time mentioned it previously. Suppose he plays for St Mirren so everyone can assume we were interested :greengrin

[Brightside]

Who struggled to hold down a place a Livi last year and ended up getting released?

I do t think he was being serious tbh.

[blackpoolhibs]

Same efe who turned up when he wanted when he was here before and didn’t exactly do amazing at livi


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Yip, the same Efe.

[Allant1981]

Who struggled to hold down a place a Livi last year and ended up getting released?

He played 28 times last year, hardly struggled for a game

[Brightside]

We brought in an England youth captain and he isn’t getting a look in. Efe wouldn’t be getting in our team.

[Winston Ingram]

He played 28 times last year, hardly struggled for a game

He started 17 league games last year, which is less than half. I think it's safe to say he struggled for a game.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/efe-ambrose/leistungsdaten/spieler/81831/plus/0?saison=2020

[Allant1981]

He started 17 league games last year, which is less than half. I think it's safe to say he struggled for a game.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/efe-ambrose/leistungsdaten/spieler/81831/plus/0?saison=2020


Didnt realise that league games are the only ones that get counted now when discussing how many times someone played

[Winston Ingram]

Didnt realise that league games are the only ones that get counted now when discussing how many times someone played

We can discuss cup ones if you want. Livi played in 10 cup games in total last season. He was on the bench for 4 and started 6. 4 of which were in the group stage v the mighty Edinburgh City, Alloa, Stenhousemuir and Airdrie.

[Allant1981]

We can discuss cup ones if you want. Livi played in 10 cup games in total last season. He was on the bench for 4 and started 6. 4 of which were in the group stage v the mighty Edinburgh City, Alloa, Stenhousemuir and Airdrie.

What a daft response, does it matter who they were playing, we played a lot of 1st team players in previous league cup games

[Winston Ingram]

What a daft response, does it matter who they were playing, we played a lot of 1st team players in previous league cup games

What’s daft about it? You complained we were only discussing league games. I showed you he was as much of a squad player in the cups. 🤷🏻*♂️

At the end of the day, he started less than half their league and cup games combined and was then released. I don’t really think you can get a much of clearer demonstration of squad player than that.

[CMurdoch]

What a daft response, does it matter who they were playing, we played a lot of 1st team players in previous league cup games

It does matter. Teams play their squad players in the early rounds of the Cup.
This was never more evident than last season when Hibs played David Gray in these games but he was never considered for even a sub appearance in a league game.

P.S. Efe was named man of the match last week. If Davidson can get him to train along with everyone else each day he could get back to a good level.

[Allant1981]

It does matter. Teams play their squad players in the early rounds of the Cup.
This was never more evident than last season when Hibs played David Gray in these games but he was never considered for even a sub appearance in a league game.

We also played doidge, nisbet, stevenson,boyle, hallberg, mcgregor against cove rangers

[w pilton hibby]

Confirmed on the Official Site

https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/article/graeme-mathie-departs-hibernian

[bingo70]

Confirmed on the Official Site

https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/article/graeme-mathie-departs-hibernian

All seems very amicable.

That must be why the negotiations took so long 😂

[Hibbyradge]

Maybe he wasn't sacked and didn't resign? :wink:

[J-C]

Maybe he wasn't sacked and didn't resign? :wink:

That'll never be said, I'd assume he was told recruitment hasn't been good enough and unfortunately these things happen, Graeme's a good bloke and will get another job soon enough.

[MrSmith]

That'll never be said, I'd assume he was told recruitment hasn't been good enough and unfortunately these things happen, Graeme's a good bloke and will get another job soon enough.

Queens Park?

[Just_Jimmy]

Thanks and good luck in the future.

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[Wilson]

Absolutely no clue but I wonder if Ross was annoyed that Allan almost got sold from under him? Has Mathie maybe made a monumental James Blunt of it?

Allan wasn't featuring for Jack Ross at the time. Moving on a player Jack Ross doesn't want to play and replacing him with one that fits our model isn't the worst idea. However, i doubt it was happening without his knowledge.

[Since90+2]

Allan wasn't featuring for Jack Ross at the time. Moving on a player Jack Ross doesn't want to play and replacing him with one that fits our model isn't the worst idea. However, i doubt it was happening without his knowledge.

Yeah I can't see that scenario happening. Ross would be approving anyone going out the door, especially someone quite high profile like Allan.

[Since452]

Queens Park?

Good shout

[Callum_62]

All the best but whos replacing him?

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[CMurdoch]

All the best but whos replacing him?

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Need a negotiator in before the next window.

[Allez Hibs]

Mathie away confirmed.

Under Ron, perform or....

https://twitter.com/gmathie82/status/1443520685603790851?s=20

[scoopyboy]

Allan wasn't featuring for Jack Ross at the time. Moving on a player Jack Ross doesn't want to play and replacing him with one that fits our model isn't the worst idea. However, i doubt it was happening without his knowledge.

You would like to think so but Jamie Gullan was at Killie without him knowing

[J-C]

You would like to think so but Jamie Gullan was at Killie without him knowing

So has Mathie been doing deals behind Ross's back?

[Since90+2]

You would like to think so but Jamie Gullan was at Killie without him knowing

I find that incredible to be honest. That can't be a normal working practice for a Head Coach not to know if a first team squad member is likely to leave the club.

I'm not sure if that would have been down to a breakdown in communication or relationship between Ross and Mathie but it just sounds very odd.

[J-C]

There had been rumours of a fall out between them, Mathie wasn't DOF, so wouldn't have the power to buy players without the Head Coaches approval, maybe overstepping his remit.

[cabbageandribs1875]

“My children have grown up as Hibernian supporters and I look forward to taking them back to Easter Road sometime soon to get behind a team I have no doubt can achieve success on the field in the near future.”


always welcome back :flag:

[offshorehibby]

Hopefully Hibs a have someone in mind or a plan in place. It will not be long before the January window is open and we need to be planning for this now.

[scoopyboy]

So has Mathie been doing deals behind Ross's back?

Not saying that but there must have been a mix up in communications, I think I'm right in saying he was Rugby Park training and was pictured with the Killie top on.

Was recalled pdq

[scoopyboy]

I find that incredible to be honest. That can't be a normal working practice for a Head Coach not to know if a first team squad member is likely to leave the club.

I'm not sure if that would have been down to a breakdown in communication or relationship between Ross and Mathie but it just sounds very odd.

me too.

I think breakdown in communication would be the most likely explanation, not suggesting for a minute there was anything sinister in it.

[Blaster]

Not saying that but there must have been a mix up in communications, I think I'm right in saying he was Rugby Park training and was pictured with the Killie top on.

Was recalled pdq

I heard that one too. Photos etc all done and close to being unveiled when the plug was pulled. A former striker had to bring some belongings back to him which he’d left at Kilmarnock training

[Lago]

me too.

I think breakdown in communication would be the most likely explanation, not suggesting for a minute there was anything sinister in it.
Maybe not sinister but, totally unacceptable & unprofessional.

[Green Badger]

Not saying that but there must have been a mix up in communications, I think I'm right in saying he was Rugby Park training and was pictured with the Killie top on.

Was recalled pdq

This sounds like significantly more than just a mix up in communications. Can’t really imagine a scenario where a player is signing for another club with the manager having no knowledge of it. Quite incredible if true.

[Coco Bryce]

Seemingly JR never knew SA was part of the McGrath deal?

[Blaster]

This sounds like significantly more than just a mix up in communications. Can’t really imagine a scenario where a player is signing for another club with the manager having no knowledge of it. Quite incredible if true.

I think it was only meant to go through once a replacement was signed and sealed which hadn’t happened

[Iain G]

This sounds like significantly more than just a mix up in communications. Can’t really imagine a scenario where a player is signing for another club with the manager having no knowledge of it. Quite incredible if true.

Which makes me doubt that it's true.

[Iain G]

Seemingly JR never knew SA was part of the McGrath deal?

Sauce? 🤣

[Billy Whizz]

You would like to think so but Jamie Gullan was at Killie without him knowing

Scoops you’re usually spot on with info, but on this occasion I think your wrong. I was in told that everyone knew the situation with Gullan, he was only going to Killie if we got another striker in

[Torto7]

Scoops you’re usually spot on with info, but on this occasion I think your wrong. I was in told that everyone knew the situation with Gullan, he was only going to Killie if we got another striker in

That Dion Charles? Apparently we're back in for him for Jan as he's refusing to sign a new contract.

[Peevemor]

Scoops you’re usually spot on with info, but on this occasion I think your wrong. I was in told that everyone knew the situation with Gullan, he was only going to Killie if we got another striker in

Maybe everyone's right - that JR knew about a potential deal but didn't know that Gullan was already training with Kilmarnock? :dunno:

[Billy Whizz]

Maybe everyone's right - that JR knew about a potential deal but didn't know that Gullan was already training with Kilmarnock? :dunno:

Please read my post again

[Peevemor]

Please read my post again

I just have - I don't see the problem with what I posted.

[LunasBoots]

Obviously made one to many clock ups over the past year and a bit, overall he's done a decent job, if RG thinks he can get better then that's a good thing.

[scoopyboy]

Scoops you’re usually spot on with info, but on this occasion I think your wrong. I was in told that everyone knew the situation with Gullan, he was only going to Killie if we got another striker in

He was definitely at Killie, Blaster has posted similar a few posts ago.

Debatable without doubt about how far down the line things were and who all knew about it.

If I'm wrong Billy fair enough but convinced I have at least some of it right.

[scoopyboy]

Maybe not sinister but, totally unacceptable & unprofessional.

Agreed

[Billy Whizz]

He was definitely at Killie, Blaster has posted similar a few posts ago.

Debatable without doubt about how far down the line things were and who all knew about it.

If I'm wrong Billy fair enough but convinced I have at least some of it right.

He was at Kilmarnock and training, but Jack knew he was there, trust me

[RIP Bestie]

Mathie applied for the Sporting Directo/Director of Football position with our neighbours last year.
In my opinion I don't see him as a great loss. Onwards and upwards.

[Since452]

Mathie applied for the Sporting Directo/Director of Football position with our neighbours last year.
In my opinion I don't see him as a great loss. Onwards and upwards.

That would have been an awkward announcement. Looks like it's backfired if true.

[Blaster]

He was at Kilmarnock and training, but Jack knew he was there, trust me

Agree Billy but didn’t know the deal was almost over the line before a replacement was in. That wasn’t meant to happen and he was unhappy with that

[overdrive]

I remember reading something on one of the Facebook groups around the time of the transfer window closing that JR and GM hadn't been speaking for a while and that it stemmed from the deal to bring Liam Fox in as first team coach falling through. Anybody any idea if there was any truth to that?

[Torto7]

Mathie applied for the Sporting Directo/Director of Football position with our neighbours last year.
In my opinion I don't see him as a great loss. Onwards and upwards.

Out of interest how do you know this?

[Peevemor]

out of interest how do you know this Mrs Budge?

ftfy

[Since452]

I'm glad that whatever has happened has ended amicably. Both parties can move on now. Quite excited to see who we bring in. Like others have said, it isn't long till January so hopefully it's a pretty quick process. Hopefully someone already lined up.

[The Harp Awakes]

Mathie applied for the Sporting Directo/Director of Football position with our neighbours last year.
In my opinion I don't see him as a great loss. Onwards and upwards.

If that's true then not surprising RG emptied him. I get the impression with RG if you're not fully committed to Hibs you're oot.