Graeme Mathie Away?

[Allez Hibs]

Can't get on with the manager

That he is an incompetent

Overplayed his hand on Doig

Failure to get x y & z deals over the line without any knowledge of why they failed

Need I go on?

Yep, moneyball approach which is continually looking to replicate the SJM business. So much so, given how many St Mirren players we have signed and missed out on another late in the window.

[Jones28]

It didn’t need to be McCart. We could’ve had Wood (or another) in then to save McGregor having to play. We’ll obviously never know but that’s the transfer that’s baffled me most from the summer. We waited for months on McCart, having had bids rejected already, then didn’t offer anywhere near what St J wanted (according to their manager) before swiftly signing Wood on loan.

Whats clear to me is that our valuation of the player did not match St Johnstones valuation, in a similar vein to our valuation of Josh Doig not being met by clubs. Hence we signed Wood, who is by all accounts ready for first team action and has clearly come here to get it.

It happens, JR has actual evidence from Sunderland Till I Die of not paying over odds for players.

Whats the confusion?

[Callum_62]

Why did he leave it to the very last minute then?

His responsibility. Had weeks to sort it but messed about and we were left scrambling and it fell through. The buck stops with him.Wasn't it because the player was on his way to middlesborough but that deal fell through late on TDD??

If we genuinly ran out out time then I don't really see how that's a BUNGLE

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[Allez Hibs]

Stronger than the unbeaten squad we have already this season?

Unbeaten? Didn't you quote a game that we lost???

[Coco Bryce]

Links then?

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Links it didn't?

[Dalianwanda]

Any actual evidence for any of this assertion?

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk Like everyone else who has commented, absolutely none

[J-C]

Why did he leave it to the very last minute then?

His responsibility. Had weeks to sort it but messed about and we were left scrambling and it fell through. The buck stops with him.

Another thing to remember with the McGrath deal failing is we have 2 players Allan and Wright who now know they have no future at Hibs and a young striker who'll rot away on the bench because we failed to get another striker in, Gullan's deal was all set to go ahead but cancelled last minute because we need him as cover, even though it looks like Ross doesn't fancy him as a players.

[Jones28]

Unbeaten? Didn't you quote a game that we lost???

Oh so sorry, unbeaten in the league this season then.

[CockneyRebel]

Why did he leave it to the very last minute then?

His responsibility. Had weeks to sort it but messed about and we were left scrambling and it fell through. The buck stops with him.




From what came out in press and club releases was that the player was set to join an English club and it was this deal that fell through late on the final day. Hibs jumped in to sign the (now available) player but ran out of time.

Hardly a bungle, just a rapid response to an unexpected opportunity that didn't give us quite enough time to beat the deadline.

[Jones28]

That is incredibly disrespectful to McCart. I’m actually quite disgusted.

Me too. I'm disgusted by myself.

[Greenworld]

It's certainly interesting reading the views of everyone.
I am not surprised without knowing the reason behind it.
Before Ron took over at Hibs I said American companies can be or appear to be brutal in making changes to staffing.
I find it exciting rather than anything else and look forward to what the next plan is.
If I was to guess then I agree with those who think not moving Doig out was a big mistake .


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[CentreLine]

Does anyone else think we should be headhunting the St Mirren chief scout???😉

[O'Rourke3]

Links it didn't?So no links to any documentation other than speculation from this board. Cool.

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[Coco Bryce]

Hope you don't work in HR Coco.
I'm reminded of a colleague who let out a wee fart at work during an appraisal then the rumour spread that he was getting sacked for taking a dump on the boss's desk.

Funnily enough..... :greengrin

[Coco Bryce]

So no links to any documentation other than speculation from this board. Cool.

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And no links from you that he wasn't at fault for these failings. Not cool.

[Since452]

Some people really are taking Mathie moving on personally. It's football, it happens. It should be viewed as a good opportunity for the club to move to the next level.

This. We don't have another window until January now. Ideall time to get someone else (who Ron/Ben think are better) in. We'll have a shortlist of players anyway. Hopefully the new guy can get them in.

[Allez Hibs]

Oh so sorry, unbeaten in the league this season then.

To use a quote from JR "I'd temper that by saying" we have been top early in the season before and have been relegated (obviously not saying that will happen this time), who have we played so far? Two promoted clubs (yes Hearts was a good point away from home) and teams we are much better than to answer being unbeaten in the league after 5 games, it it is a long season and is the squad strong enough? I would say it is very thin just now with injuries we have, as evidenced by the lack of attacking options in the bench on Sunday. What happens if we get an injury to a defender? So was it a good transfer window then, given our squad just now?

It just seems like people see we are unbeaten after 5 games and think everything is just wonderful. It's a long season where a squad of good depth is needed. Mathie hasn't delivered that which is a shortcoming with the size of our club and resources.

[Callum_62]

To use a quote from JR "I'd temper that by saying" we have been top early in the season before and have been relegated (obviously not saying that will happen this time), who have we played so far? Two promoted clubs (yes Hearts was a good point away from home) and teams we are much better than to answer being unbeaten in the league after 5 games, it it is a long season and is the squad strong enough? I would say it is very thin just now with injuries we have, as evidenced by the lack of attacking options in the bench on Sunday. What happens if we get an injury to a defender? So was it a good transfer window then, given our squad just now?

It just seems like people see we are unbeaten after 5 games and think everything is just wonderful. It's a long season where a squad of good depth is needed. Mathie hasn't delivered that which is a shortcoming with the size of our club and resources.I'm don't think we a real lack of squad depth when everyone is fit

We've been hit by quite a few starting 11 being out early in the season (which obviously makes are unbeaten start a bit better)



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[MrSmith]

Always sad to see someone lose their job. GM handled his role with the utmost integrity and dignity. Much respect GM, hope everything works out for you.

[Jones28]

To use a quote from JR "I'd temper that by saying" we have been top early in the season before and have been relegated (obviously not saying that will happen this time), who have we played so far? Two promoted clubs (yes Hearts was a good point away from home) and teams we are much better than to answer being unbeaten in the league after 5 games, it it is a long season and is the squad string enough? I would say it is very thin just now with injuries we have as evidenced by the lack of attacking options in the bench on Sunday. What happens if we get an injury to a defender? So was it a good transfer window then, given our squad just now?

It just seems like people see we are unbeaten after 5 games and think everything is just wonderful. It's a long season where a squad of good depth is needed. Mathie hasn't delivered that which is a shortcoming with the size of our club and resources.

Pffffft talk about glass half empty.

If we get an injury to a defender we have back ups in all positions. We retained all our biggest assets which, to me, is a positive. We recruited good players, a positive.

We didn't sign McCart, McGrath or the left back we were seemingly after. Negatives. The McGrath deal would have meant 3 players moving in synch in the dying minutes of the transfer window which would've been impressive if it came off. It didn't, it's a disappointment.

On balance, I side with Ron wanting better in 100%, I want to club to excel and if that means someone nice and well respected loosing their job I have no real issue with that other than it being a shame.

[Pretty Boy]

I think it's unfair to have a go at GM on a personal level.

On a professional level I can understand discussion and speculation. He isn't some back office administrator just doing the 9 to 5. Along with the head coach he's arguably the most important man on the footballing side of the business.

If his leaving and the reasons for it aren't fair game for discussion then I'm not sure what is. I've seen far more personal things discussed about both players and those who have less prominent roles at the club without as much furore.

[Allez Hibs]

I think it's unfair to have a go at GM on a personal level.

On a professional level I can understand discussion and speculation. He isn't some back office administrator just doing the 9 to 5. Along with the head coach he's arguably the most important man on the footballing side of the business.

If his leaving and the reasons for it aren't fair game for discussion then I'm not sure what is. I've seen far more personal things discussed about both players and those who have less prominent roles at the club without as much furore.

As has been said before, nobody is having a go at him personally on here. As a club it's time to stop being the nice guy, the club is in a harsh, competitive business.

[flash]

Pffffft talk about glass half empty.

If we get an injury to a defender we have back ups in all positions. We retained all our biggest assets which, to me, is a positive. We recruited good players, a positive.

We didn't sign McCart, McGrath or the left back we were seemingly after. Negatives. The McGrath deal would have meant 3 players moving in synch in the dying minutes of the transfer window which would've been impressive if it came off. It didn't, it's a disappointment.

On balance, I side with Ron wanting better in 100%, I want to club to excel and if that means someone nice and well respected loosing their job I have no real issue with that other than it being a shame.

I agree with a lot of this but I think the retention of our assets is the key.
The club clearly didn't want or expect to retain them all and this looks like it has had a massive knock on effect to what happened subsequently

[Since452]

One thing is pretty clear. Ron won't let Hibs stagnate. Maybe sounds harsh but my one and only concern is Hibernian football club and it progressing. Never nice to see anyone lose their job but if it means Hibs progress then so be it. We should always be striving for better and if something is not working for any reason then change it. There are big plans for the club and as a supporter i'm very excited about the future. Will be interesting to see who we bring in.

[CentreLine]

The model at ER, since Leeann D, has been that nobody cannot be replaced and to have an eye to a suitable replacement for every role at the club. Including her own, she said at the time. Now that’s clearly not been a perfect solution since it took a while to replace her but we got to hope there is a quick solution to replacing GM.
Good luck to him, wherever he goes but I do hope he is ready to pay too dollar when he comes calling fir any of our players.

[Callum_62]

It will be really interesting who we get in to replace Mathie

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[Brightside]

It will be really interesting who we get in to replace Mathie

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Wonder what the reaction would be if it was Ron’s son.

[delbert]

As has been said before, nobody is having a go at him personally on here. As a club it's time to stop being the nice guy, the club is in a harsh, competitive business.

Hopefully the discussion on this won’t get personal, that would be unfair as I’m sure the guy gave his all whilst employed by us. However, I think our recruitment at times has been pretty ordinary, Drey Wright is a prime example, shouldn’t be anywhere near a club looking to challenge for top three, he simply isn’t a good player. The habit of leaving things till the last minute in the transfer window just seemed baffling, if a player is excellent an hour before the end of the window, surely he was pretty decent a week before. And surely as a matter of common sense, summer transfer business should always be done as early as possible, so they can have a preseason with the club and manager and be ready to hit the ground running for our first fixture. I wish Mathie good luck in his next venture, but I think there has to be better out there at this job.

[Allez Hibs]

Hopefully the discussion on this won’t get personal, that would be unfair as I’m sure the guy gave his all whilst employed by us. However, I think our recruitment at times has been pretty ordinary, Drey Wright is a prime example, shouldn’t be anywhere near a club looking to challenge for top three, he simply isn’t a good player. The habit of leaving things till the last minute in the transfer window just seemed baffling, if a player is excellent an hour before the end of the window, surely he was pretty decent a week before. And surely as a matter of common sense, summer transfer business should always be done as early as possible, so they can have a preseason with the club and manager and be ready to hit the ground running for our first fixture. I wish Mathie good luck in his next venture, but I think there has to be better out there at this job.

Totally agree that we can get someone better.

I don't think Drey Wright touched the ball on Sunday.

[Since452]

Wonder what the reaction would be if it was Ron’s son.

Is Ron's son qualified? Not being funny, i genuinely know nothing about him.

[Brightside]

Totally agree that we can get someone better.

I don't think Drey Wright touched the ball on Sunday.

Yet Jack keeps putting him in his squad and bringing him on as a sub?

[BSEJVT]

New CEO and a poor finish to the transfer window, then suddenly within a couple of weeks, the papers are saying he's being given the elbow by Hibs. Of course there'll be speculation as to why it's happened, it's only natural, I've not seen one post criticising Mathie on a personal basis but when he suddenly gets the bullet going by 2-3 papers all running the same story, yes we'll discuss it.

Questions will be asked over his ability to do the job after not getting McGrath signed up, the cock up with McRorie and Ojo, puling Doig out of the squad with Ross saying an offer was incoming, only to be added back to the squad with no offers whatsoever for the lad. Rumours that he didn't get on with Ross and Ross himself looking and sounding very frustrated with the transfer window in the last couple of weeks. Is his commute starting to get to him.

No one is having a go at Mathie, we're discussing all this because it looks like a well respected member of staff at Hibs may be losing his job and we're all trying to get our heads round it all, it's only natural to talk about these things on a fans forum.

You are correct in that it is a topic fully worthy of discussion.

IMO though you are miles off it that folk aren't having a go at Mathie

[neil7908]

Wonder what the reaction would be if it was Ron’s son.

I'd be very worried personally but would give him a chance before getting the pitch forks and torches out.

[Brightside]

Is Ron's son qualified? Not being funny, i genuinely know nothing about him.

I've no idea of his qualifications. But his official role is Technical Scout at the club.

[Ronniekirk]

The young guy Reid for st Mirren Think just about to turn17 looks like the next potential youth player they are bringing through that could be a good one to buy from them
But it begs the question what are they doing that we aren’t
I remember when we pinched Park from Dundee United and we then went on to have a good recruitment spell and success
But fir the money we have laid out on East Mains and youth development ,we haven’t had a great return
However we are on the up just now and it wouldn’t take much to push us on further
Fine Margins I know but if Ron has ambitions then let’s hope they are realised with us


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[Since452]

I've no idea of his qualifications. But his official role is Technical Scout at the club.

I didn't know that thanks.

[jacomo]

Let's face it. His penny pinching and trying to get players in on the cheap and leaving a very important signing till the very last minute, then failing to get the deal through has cost him his job. Add to that, failing to get a new centre half in before the European games probably cost the club £millions

Ron doesn't sound the type that will not tolerate incompetence to the detriment of the club.


Is this all the case?

If you are going to hold Mathie personally responsible for missing out on targets, surely he gets the credit for all the good signings we have made (and there have been lots since 2014). Not least, investing the clubs money wisely in transfer fees for Nisbet, Doidge, SJM etc

If he does go, he does so with my best wishes and gratitude for his contribution to the club.

[Jones28]

Is this all the case?

If you are going to hold Mathie personally responsible for missing out on targets, surely he gets the credit for all the good signings we have made (and there have been lots since 2014). Not least, investing the clubs money wisely in transfer fees for Nisbet, Doidge, SJM etc

If he does go, he does so with my best wishes and gratitude for his contribution to the club.

None of it's the case. It's, at best, leaping to conclusions.

[BSEJVT]

No one is hanging him out to dry, we're discussing why an important well respected member of the backroom team has suddenly lost his job (going by the papers) and the reasons he may have lost his job, time for you and a couple of others to get a wee grip.

What comes next has nothing to do with the topic under discussion, I am really not that bothered one way or another, I think it is disrepectful but maybe I hold myself to higher personal standard than some, but it's not going to change my life one way or the other.

What really does get on my thruppeny's though is posts like yours

You are able to espouse your opinion without fear or favour yet when others express their's "they need to get a grip"

So much of what is wrong with Hibs Net is in attitudes like that that just mean folk who don't live or die by the pish spouted by us all at some time on here that they think, why should I even bother engaging in the debate.

My opinion is different to yours but has been expressed honestly and respectfully and I haven't told anyone they need to get a grip of what they are saying just that I disagree.

Which one of us do you really think needs an attitude adjustment?

[Coco Bryce]

Is this all the case?

If you are going to hold Mathie personally responsible for missing out on targets, surely he gets the credit for all the good signings we have made (and there have been lots since 2014). Not least, investing the clubs money wisely in transfer fees for Nisbet, Doidge, SJM etc

If he does go, he does so with my best wishes and gratitude for his contribution to the club.

I also wish him the very best. He has signed some fantastic players for us.

Unfortunately, like most jobs nowadays, you are mostly judged on your mistakes rather than your achievements.

I don't particularly agree with it. It's just the world we live in sadly and it seems Ron acts in this way.

[Allez Hibs]

The young guy Reid for st Mirren Think just about to turn17 looks like the next potential youth player they are bringing through that could be a good one to buy from them
But it begs the question what are they doing that we aren’t
I remember when we pinched Park from Dundee United and we then went on to have a good recruitment spell and success
But fir the money we have laid out on East Mains and youth development ,we haven’t had a great return
However we are on the up just now and it wouldn’t take much to push us on further
Fine Margins I know but if Ron has ambitions then let’s hope they are realised with us


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We have had a very poor return from East Mains if we are honest. We appear to be good at developing young players that we sign from other clubs.

[Peevemor]

We have had a very poor return from East Mains if we are honest. We appear to be good at developing young players that we sign from other clubs.

East mains is a 1st team squad training centre first & foremost.

[Allez Hibs]

Yet Jack keeps putting him in his squad and bringing him on as a sub?

Does that make him any good, is he likely to impact a game? He has been a flop so far. Seems like he is one of the only options we have just now due to the poor window.

[Lago]

Another thing to remember with the McGrath deal failing is we have 2 players Allan and Wright who now know they have no future at Hibs and a young striker who'll rot away on the bench because we failed to get another striker in, Gullan's deal was all set to go ahead but cancelled last minute because we need him as cover, even though it looks like Ross doesn't fancy him as a players.
Your absolutely right to highlight the whole McGrath situation and how it has affected Gullan, he I really do feel sorry for.

[Allez Hibs]

East mains is a 1st team squad training centre first & foremost.

Hmmm.
So it doesn't house the youth academy?

Our home grown player return making it has been poor since East Mains was built though.

[Peevemor]

Hmmm.
So it doesn't house the youth academy?

Our home grown player return making it has been poor since East Mains was built though.

Hibs were clear from the start. East Mains is a training centre, not an academy.

The academy may be accommodated there, but it's yet another lazy (yet often repeated) criticism to say that we've had a bad return from EM.

[Allez Hibs]

Hibs were clear from the start. East Mains is a training centre, not an academy.

The academy may be accommodated there, but it's yet another lazy (yet often repeated) criticism to say that we've had a bad return from EM.

So East Mains is not an Academy but it houses the Academy?

Since East Mains was built, how much in transfer fees have we generated from selling our own homegrown players? And how is that comparable to homegrown players we produced in say 10 years before East Mains was built?

Even by number of players sold?

[Peevemor]

Since East Mains was built, how much in transfer fees have we generated from selling our own homegrown players? And how is that comparable to homegrown players we produced in say 10 years before East Mains was built?

:brickwall

[Kato]

Since East Mains was built, how much in transfer fees have we generated from selling our own homegrown players? And how is that comparable to homegrown players we produced in say 10 years before East Mains was built?

Why not do your own research and come back and tell us the answer?

[Groathillgrump]

Hibs were clear from the start. East Mains is a training centre, not an academy.

The academy may be accommodated there, but it's yet another lazy (yet often repeated) criticism to say that we've had a bad return from EM.


Regardless of where the Academy is based we've had a poor return. That is an undeniable fact.

[Allez Hibs]

Why not do your own research and come back and tell us the answer?

No, I've e been told East Mains is not an Academy but yet it houses the Academy?

We all refer to East Mains as being where the Academy is.

[loanheadhibby]

Yet Jack keeps putting him in his squad and bringing him on as a sub?

Maybe JR making the point that this is as good as he's got? On the other hand, JR maybe rates Drey Wright as a squad player.

[Allez Hibs]

Regardless of where the Academy is based we've had a poor return. That is an undeniable fact.

100%

[loanheadhibby]

Wonder what the reaction would be if it was Ron’s son.

If he is the best candidate for the job, no real issue.

Dare I say it tho, it's the sort of thing we used to give the ****bo's pelters for when Mad Vlad started that carry on.

[Kato]

No


Noted.

[Peevemor]

No, I've e been told East Mains is not an Academy but yet it houses the Academy?

We all refer to East Mains as being where the Academy is.

You spoke about a poor return from East Mains, but East Mains isn't just the academy.

Would we have attracted the same 1st team players if we didn't have the EM facility for training? Would we have won the Scottish Cup if East Mains didn't exist?

[Allez Hibs]

Noted.

With respect, I asked the initial question.

[Unseen work]

Tbf to Mathie and Hibs, I think the Golden Generation has set the standards ridiculously high and nearly impossible to replicate.

O’Connor
Riordan
Thomson
Brown
Whittaker

All went on to have very good careers at a high level.

Since then whilst we’ve not had players of the same standard we’ve still had players that have came into the first team and played their part or been useful additions.

David Wotherspoon
Oli Shaw
Jason Cummings
Ryan Porteous - Expect a high fee for him
Josh Doig - Expect a high fee for him

And yes I know Cummings and Doig came from hearts, but they were signed with us as youngsters and not first team players. We then progressed them into the first team and they’ve done well.

Callum Booth
Scott Martin
Fraser Murray
Ben Stirling

Are all still playing at a high level after leaving us, surely we’ve done something right with them too?

We also have Gullan, Campbell, Brydon and Laidlaw close to the first team at the moment.

If you bring through 1 a year you’re doing very well and most clubs would bite your hand off.

[madhatter]

Wonder what the reaction would be if it was Ron’s son.

Can't see this happening unless Ron's son is best candidate. Nothing to suggest that Ron gives jobs on a whim. We took months upon months to get a new CEO.

I would imagine Ian has good contacts in USA and if he's anything like his dad he will be a fairly shrewd man.

Think we need to remember that our partnership with Charleston Battery was largely down to Ian and he also did a lot of work on the Mueller deal. Think he has more going for him than simply being Ron's son.

[Allez Hibs]

You spoke about a poor return from East Mains, but East Mains isn't just the academy.

Would we have attracted the same 1st team players if we didn't have the EM facility for training? Would we have won the Scottish Cup if East Mains didn't exist?

I think it's widely accepted that when people discuss a poor return from East Mains they are generly alluding to the Academy. Granted East mains is an important piece of the infrastructure to the first team and attracting players. But the discussion point was the youth academy element of East Mains. Not East Mains as a whole.

I think we'd all like to see a better production line of homegrown players from East mains. Whilst it's been better in recent years, I think most would accept the return on homegrown players produced since 2007 has been poor.

[Allez Hibs]

Tbf to Mathie and Hibs, I think the Golden Generation has set the standards ridiculously high and nearly impossible to replicate.

O’Connor
Riordan
Thomson
Brown
Whittaker

All went on to have very good careers at a high level.

Since then whilst we’ve not had players of the same standard we’ve still had players that have came into the first team and played their part or been useful additions.

David Wotherspoon
Oli Shaw
Jason Cummings
Ryan Porteous - Expect a high fee for him
Josh Doig - Expect a high fee for him

And yes I know Cummings and Doig came from hearts, but they were signed with us as youngsters and not first team players. We then progressed them into the first team and they’ve done well.

Callum Booth
Scott Martin
Fraser Murray
Ben Stirling

Are all still playing at a high level after leaving us, surely we’ve done something right with them too?

We also have Gullan, Campbell, Brydon and Laidlaw close to the first team at the moment.

If you bring through 1 a year you’re doing very well and most clubs would bite your hand off.

Didn't Wotherspoon come from Celtic and Cummings from Hearts?

[Kato]

Didn't Wotherspoon come from Celtic and Cummings from Hearts?The academy still played a part in their development.

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[Unseen work]

Didn't Wotherspoon come from Celtic and Cummings from Hearts?

Yeah, but my point is they were deemed not good enough for them yet we saw potential, signed them and put them through our academy before eventually graduating them to the first team where they performed well.

Nisbet was with us when he was younger but no one would say we brought him through so I think it’s unfair to take guys like Doig, Cummings and Wetherspoon away from the club if you (not you personally) use that rule.

[Coach Jon]

Tbf to Mathie and Hibs, I think the Golden Generation has set the standards ridiculously high and nearly impossible to replicate.

O’Connor
Riordan
Thomson
Brown
Whittaker

All went on to have very good careers at a high level.

Since then whilst we’ve not had players of the same standard we’ve still had players that have came into the first team and played their part or been useful additions.

David Wotherspoon
Oli Shaw
Jason Cummings
Ryan Porteous - Expect a high fee for him
Josh Doig - Expect a high fee for him

And yes I know Cummings and Doig came from hearts, but they were signed with us as youngsters and not first team players. We then progressed them into the first team and they’ve done well.

Callum Booth
Scott Martin
Fraser Murray
Ben Stirling

Are all still playing at a high level after leaving us, surely we’ve done something right with them too?

We also have Gullan, Campbell, Brydon and Laidlaw close to the first team at the moment.

If you bring through 1 a year you’re doing very well and most clubs would bite your hand off.

The issue is how much is it costing us to run the academy to get that one player per year ( if your lucky) in to the first team?

[Ozyhibby]

The academy still played a part in their development.

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As it will with Mackay and Tait. That’s the kind of signing we need to be making more of. Finding players who have made the break through to adult football (the hardest step) at other clubs and bringing to Hibs while we can afford them. It’s very difficult to predict which players will make it at 16 until they play against men.


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[flash]

What comes next has nothing to do with the topic under discussion, I am really not that bothered one way or another, I think it is disrepectful but maybe I hold myself to higher personal standard than some, but it's not going to change my life one way or the other.

What really does get on my thruppeny's though is posts like yours

You are able to espouse your opinion without fear or favour yet when others express their's "they need to get a grip"

So much of what is wrong with Hibs Net is in attitudes like that that just mean folk who don't live or die by the pish spouted by us all at some time on here that they think, why should I even bother engaging in the debate.

My opinion is different to yours but has been expressed honestly and respectfully and I haven't told anyone they need to get a grip of what they are saying just that I disagree.

Which one of us do you really think needs an attitude adjustment?

Not sure you should be asking others to "adjust their attitude" when in the same post you claim to hold higher personal standards than the person you are replying to.

[JimBHibees]

That article is full of "the Evening News understands" and "it is believed"No facts, no quotes just dressed up opinion.Not getting money in the tranfer of Doig could be an issue given it probably put the mockers on our budget for transfers in. As for the potential player signings you mention. McCrorie will have failed because Aberdeen offered higher wages which Hibs wouldn't match. McCart will have failed because St Johnstone wanted more money than Hibs were willing to offer. McKay I don't think we really wanted him badly enough to outbid Hearts on a contract, Re Griffiths, I don't think Hibs were interested, McGrath was going to Middlesboro until an hour before the window closed and Hibs tried to jump in with a complicated deal that would have taken two squad players off our wage bill as well as adding a player we wanted badly. Due to the complicated nature of it the deal ran out of time before it could be completed. I can't see how Mathie can be blamed for any of these deals not getting over the line given the circumstances. As for another striker, we weren't going to find another Nisbet type diamond for £200k between Doidge being injured and the closing of the window.

Exactly my view on it all.

[Brightside]

No, I've e been told East Mains is not an Academy but yet it houses the Academy?

We all refer to East Mains as being where the Academy is.

This has nothing to do with Graham Mathie. Maybe start a thread about the Academy.

[Allez Hibs]

This has nothing to do with Graham Mathie. Maybe start a thread about the Academy.

So Mathie wanting to break the transfer record for a player sold by Hibs has nothing to do with the Academy?

Another poster made the initial observation about East Mains.

[BSEJVT]

Not sure you should be asking others to "adjust their attitude" when in the same post you claim to hold higher personal standards than the person you are replying to.

Really

Why not?

I didn’t say I held higher personal standards than him and didn’t tell him to get a grip or tell him he needed to adjust his attitude I simply asked a question

It’s evident you and I are on different sides of the debate but quite why you elect to make this personal escapes me

[Allez Hibs]

Really

Why not?

I didn’t say I held higher personal standards than him and didn’t tell him to get a grip or tell him he needed to adjust his attitude I simply asked a question

It's back and forths like this that add fuel to the fire of happy clapper bed wetter clashes. They aren't really necessary in the context of the thread and become personal.

[flash]

Really

Why not?

I didn’t say I held higher personal standards than him and didn’t tell him to get a grip or tell him he needed to adjust his attitude I simply asked a question

It’s evident you and I are on different sides of the debate but quite why you elect to make this personal escapes me

It's not personal I have no idea who you are. Just found it a bit hypocritical so pointed that out.

[Brightside]

So Mathie wanting to break the transfer record for a player sold by Hibs has nothing to do with the Academy?

Another poster made the initial observation about East Mains.

Eh? It’s got zero to do with the academy.

[Lendo]

So Mathie wanting to break the transfer record for a player sold by Hibs has nothing to do with the Academy?

Another poster made the initial observation about East Mains.

I don’t know why that comment got so much hate. It’s about his own personal ambitions.

Surely everyone has a goal they want to reach or achieve either at work or in their personal lives. Mathie’s comments about wanting to break a transfer record are no different to me wanting to shot a photo that outsells all of my previous work.

[He's here!]

You spoke about a poor return from East Mains, but East Mains isn't just the academy.

Would we have attracted the same 1st team players if we didn't have the EM facility for training? Would we have won the Scottish Cup if East Mains didn't exist?

Good point. Not really so long ago that Hibs players were training on whatever spare piece of ground they could find.

[Jones28]

Good point. Not really so long ago that Hibs players were training on whatever spare piece of ground they could find.

“The main attraction of signing for Hibs was obviously pokin the dug ***** off the park at Wardie wi a big stick before trainin”

[hibsforeurope]

From what it sounds like in this thread the transfer window failings were largely avoidable. i just hope we sort this out quickly and have the best person for the job in place in time to prepare properly for January.

[jacomo]

Regardless of where the Academy is based we've had a poor return. That is an undeniable fact.


Poor return on the academy or poor return on East Mains?

Arguably the number of young players that have come through our system into the first team is disappointing, yes.

Overall EM has been a game changer for us as a club though. I know it’s a running joke that new players praise ‘the facilities’ when they join us, but a lot of these players wouldn’t have signed for us without it.

[Smartie]

Questions about the value of the academy are reasonable, but it probably only needs Porto to kick on a bit further for the answer to those questions to be obvious. A few million in a transfer fee and a player who goes on to represent his country a good few times and that probably makes a few years of it's existence worthwhile.

Regarding the training centre in general - we've been signing young players and improving them for a while so it's impossible to make an argument that what we've been doing has been anything other than successful, whether it's trading Alex Harris for Boyle and helping become the player he has or nicking Josh Doig off our neighbours and helping him become one of the hottest properties in the country.

I'm very torn about the Mathie news. I've been critical of the summer but that didn't mean I wanted him gone - I wanted lessons to be learned and for us to correct the mistakes in January. I've criticised Ross in the past - doesn't mean I want him gone, it means I want him to improve.

Ron Gordon has done well so far and he has to run his business his way, but I prefer a learning environment to a high pressure "fail and you're gone" one.

It's not like we've just lost at home to Hamilton Accies and found ourselves in the Championship with Hearts and Rangers either, is it?

[J-C]

What comes next has nothing to do with the topic under discussion, I am really not that bothered one way or another, I think it is disrepectful but maybe I hold myself to higher personal standard than some, but it's not going to change my life one way or the other.

What really does get on my thruppeny's though is posts like yours

You are able to espouse your opinion without fear or favour yet when others express their's "they need to get a grip"

So much of what is wrong with Hibs Net is in attitudes like that that just mean folk who don't live or die by the pish spouted by us all at some time on here that they think, why should I even bother engaging in the debate.

My opinion is different to yours but has been expressed honestly and respectfully and I haven't told anyone they need to get a grip of what they are saying just that I disagree.

Which one of us do you really think needs an attitude adjustment?

You and one or two others have said some posters are getting personal in their attacks on Mathie, in all the pages on this thread I have read none that have been personal. We are losing a highly respected backroom member at Hibs, not long after a window which wasn't perfect and a manager who seems frustrated at the signings or lack of them. The only thing I can see is members discussing the ins and outs of why he maybe getting sacked, seeing as it's been in the main press, you then have a go at the posters and tell them to stop being disrespectful when in fact there has been no disrespectful comments made. It's the fact you and a couple of others want to take the higher ground for some reason and ram it down our throats how good you are that you won't discuss this matter.

[superfurryhibby]

You and one or two others have said some posters are getting personal in their attacks on Mathie, in all the pages on this thread I have read none that have been personal. We are losing a highly respected backroom member at Hibs, not long after a window which wasn't perfect and a manager who seems frustrated at the signings or lack of them. The only thing I can see is members discussing the ins and outs of why he maybe getting sacked, seeing as it's been in the main press, you then have a go at the posters and tell them to stop being disrespectful when in fact there has been no disrespectful comments made. It's the fact you and a couple of others want to take the higher ground for some reason and ram it down our throats how good you are that you won't discuss this matter.

Good post.

[worcesterhibby]

Completely getting rid of Mathie seems like a strange decision.

He seems to be excellent at identifying players and his success rate of those we have brought in is high and certainly much better than has been in the case in the previous 20 years. However he seems less well equipped (judging by the last window at least, if the negotiating is his remit) to be the one who then actually does the deals and negotiates player transfers. It seems to me like the whole thing might work better if GM was identifying targets and our new CEO was doing the negotiating. or failing that bring in someone who can do the hard nosed negotiations and get the deals over the line, but keep Mathie as the guy who leads the team who identifies who we should buy ?

[Peevemor]

People are saying that Graeme Mathie failed to sell and sign players, without knowing the detail of what went on or who gives the final nod to either make or accept offers.

Speculating on his professional ability is, for me, personal.

If somebody criticises my work, I'm not going to shrug it off because it's to do with my job. Of course I'm going to take it personally. Anyone who takes pride in their work is the same.

So either this place is populated by supremely logical beings who can perfectly compartmentalise their professional & private lives or there's some typical hibs.net airbrushing going on.

[Brightside]

People are saying that Graeme Mathie failed to sell and sign players, without knowing the detail of what went on or who gives the final nod to either make or accept offers.

Speculating on his professional ability is, for me, personal.

If somebody criticises my work, I'm not going to shrug it off because it's to do with my job. Of course I'm going to take it personally.

So either this place is populated by supremely logical beings who can perfectly compartmentalise their professional & private lives or there's some typical hibs.net airbrushing going on.

And other claimed he personally screwed up the last minute deal for McGrath. Couldn’t be more personal.

[J-C]

Completely getting rid of Mathie seems like a strange decision.

He seems to be excellent at identifying players and his success rate of those we have brought in is high and certainly much better than has been in the case in the previous 20 years. However he seems less well equipped (judging by the last window at least) to be the one who then actually does the deals and negotiates player transfers. It seems to me like the whole thing might work better if GM was identifying targets and our new CEO was doing the negotiating. or failing that bring in someone who can do the hard nosed negotiations and get the deals over the line, but keep Mathie as the guy who leads the team who identifies who we should buy ?


He was head of Recruitment (chief scout) with Craig and Leeanne doing the deals for Hibs, his ability to spot talent was never in doubt, his ability to do his current job I have no clue as I and many on here don't know the details of what goes on during transfers, Graeme is a really nice bloke and it's never nice to see someone lose their job but he is talented and hopefully it won't take long to gain employment somewhere.

[Slim Shady]

People are saying that Graeme Mathie failed to sell and sign players, without knowing the detail of what went on or who gives the final nod to either make or accept offers.

Speculating on his professional ability is, for me, personal.

If somebody criticises my work, I'm not going to shrug it off because it's to do with my job. Of course I'm going to take it personally.

So either this place is populated by supremely logical beings who can perfectly compartmentalise their professional & private lives or there's some typical hibs.net airbrushing going on.

It’s Mathies job to recruit / sign players.

JR had clearly identified areas he wanted players and they never arrived.
This was made public by JR on many occasions.

It’s been public knowledge that we failed on a few deals. Especially the last minute failings.

If you can’t hit your targets, then get someone else that can.

Wether he deems it personal or not,, I couldn’t care less.
I take it personal when Hibs don’t win, when hibs fail to sign players not because the players didn’t want to sign.

Mathie wasn’t the last to lose his position and I’m glad Ron is showing the leadership to move people on who can’t perform.

[Andy74]

People are saying that Graeme Mathie failed to sell and sign players, without knowing the detail of what went on or who gives the final nod to either make or accept offers.

Speculating on his professional ability is, for me, personal.

If somebody criticises my work, I'm not going to shrug it off because it's to do with my job. Of course I'm going to take it personally. Anyone who takes pride in their work is the same.

So either this place is populated by supremely logical beings who can perfectly compartmentalise their professional & private lives or there's some typical hibs.net airbrushing going on.

If we are to take this personal thing to that conclusion we’d be as well shutting this place down. Just about every discussion is about someone’s ability to do their job. That’s the way it goes for jobs in the public eye.

[Groathillgrump]

Poor return on the academy or poor return on East Mains?

Arguably the number of young players that have come through our system into the first team is disappointing, yes.

Overall EM has been a game changer for us as a club though. I know it’s a running joke that new players praise ‘the facilities’ when they join us, but a lot of these players wouldn’t have signed for us without it.

Yes, I was talking about the poor return in terms of first team talent being promoted from the Academy.

As you say, East Mains is a huge plus for us when selling the club to potential signings and it seems to be a great environment to train in. In that respect it's arguably the most important piece of infrastructure the club has invested in in the recent past, although I'm sure there are others who may disagree.

[Allez Hibs]

People are saying that Graeme Mathie failed to sell and sign players, without knowing the detail of what went on or who gives the final nod to either make or accept offers.

Speculating on his professional ability is, for me, personal.

If somebody criticises my work, I'm not going to shrug it off because it's to do with my job. Of course I'm going to take it personally. Anyone who takes pride in their work is the same.

So either this place is populated by supremely logical beings who can perfectly compartmentalise their professional & private lives or there's some typical hibs.net airbrushing going on.
On that basis, no Hibs Manager or Player can be questioned about their professional ability ever again.

Sporting Director is a very high level position and important one at a football club.

[Stuart93]

People are saying that Graeme Mathie failed to sell and sign players, without knowing the detail of what went on or who gives the final nod to either make or accept offers.

Speculating on his professional ability is, for me, personal.

If somebody criticises my work, I'm not going to shrug it off because it's to do with my job. Of course I'm going to take it personally. Anyone who takes pride in their work is the same.

So either this place is populated by supremely logical beings who can perfectly compartmentalise their professional & private lives or there's some typical hibs.net airbrushing going on.

That’s the nature of the beast on a public fans forum though is it not?

I don’t see any abuse as such though there’ll be some out there which isn’t on but we’re now not allowed to talk about whether we think he’s done a good or a bad job because it’s personal? Na, to me that’s part of the reason these places/forums exist

[calumhibee1]

People are saying that Graeme Mathie failed to sell and sign players, without knowing the detail of what went on or who gives the final nod to either make or accept offers.

Speculating on his professional ability is, for me, personal.

If somebody criticises my work, I'm not going to shrug it off because it's to do with my job. Of course I'm going to take it personally. Anyone who takes pride in their work is the same.

So either this place is populated by supremely logical beings who can perfectly compartmentalise their professional & private lives or there's some typical hibs.net airbrushing going on.

Guess we’ll shut down Hibs.net then as nearly everything discussed about Hibs on here comes back around to someone and their professional ability and is therefore a ‘personal attack’ whether that’s the player, manager, chairman or ticket office staff.

[Allez Hibs]

Guess we’ll shut down Hibs.net then as nearly everything discussed about Hibs on here comes back around to someone and their professional ability and is therefore a ‘personal attack’ whether that’s the player, manager, chairman or ticket office staff.

No more analysts at games on tv or radio, on match of the day or Soccer Saturday and Talksport.

[calumhibee1]

And other claimed he personally screwed up the last minute deal for McGrath. Couldn’t be more personal.

It couldn’t be more personal because someone said he made a mess of paperwork? :faf:

You’ve obviously never had anyone criticise or slag you in your life if you think it doesn’t get any more personal than that. This is getting ridiculous now.

[calumhibee1]

No more analysts at games on tv or radio, on match of the day or Soccer Saturday and Talksport.

Yup. That would just be the height of disrespect and we’re lucky we’ve got such enlightened people on board to help us try and stamp it out.

[Spike Mandela]

Obviously I don’t know the ins and outs of this situation like most folk but I feel a little disappointed with this decision.

I think one of the strengths of Hibs in recent times was the continuity in backroom staff providing a solid base for the club. Managers and coaches come and go with no major upheaval each time in staff turnover, they instead slot in to the Hibs setup.

Hopefully this doesn’t signal a period of chop and change and is purely an important role that Ron Gordon feels could be enhanced with a fresh input.

[calumhibee1]

Obviously I don’t know the ins and outs of this situation like most folk but I feel a little disappointed with this decision.

I think one of the strengths of Hibs in recent times was the continuity in backroom staff providing a solid base for the club. Managers and coaches come and go with no major upheaval each time in staff turnover, they instead slot in to the Hibs setup.

Hopefully this doesn’t signal a period of chop and change and is purely an important role that Ron Gordon feels could be enhanced with a fresh input.

When I first read it I was a bit disappointed as I think he’s generally done a good job. But then RG has improved so many aspects of the club since coming in that I can’t help but think we’ll find that’s what happens here as well. The more I think about it the more i reckon this could be a good move. Rather than just coasting along with Mathie we may be looking at getting someone in to get us players in that market a level above where we are just now. Who knows, it may even also see a significant increase in the budget and Ron thinks it’ll take someone else to spend bigger sums of money wisely.

[Since90+2]

From my, albeit limited, knowledge of the job Mathie was doing day to day I'm guessing he was a sort of steady and decent enough DOF (or whatever his actual title was). A solid 7/10.

I think RG is probably thinking we can get a 8 or 9/10 person in for that role.

It's a gamble but one that could pay off.

[calumhibee1]

From my, albeit limited, knowledge of the job Mathie was doing day to day I'm guessing he was a sort of steady and decent enough DOF (or whatever his actual title was). A solid 7/10.

I think RG is probably thinking we can get a 8 or 9/10 person in for that role.

It's a gamble but one that could pay off.

Yeah that’s where I think this is going. A bit like Farmer to Gordon, Dempster to Kensell, I think this is part of a plan to really kick on from steady Eddie types to folk that really want to take us to another level.

[Allez Hibs]

Yeah that’s where I think this is going. A bit like Farmer to Gordon, Dempster to Kensell, I think this is part of a plan to really kick on from steady Eddie types to folk that really want to take us to another level.

When you put it like that, it's where we have wanted Hibs to be going for along time. Ambition!! Imagine all this in the Mowbray days! It's great to see ambition from Hibs in getting good people in who can make a difference. Ron is a straight shooter and will get someone in who can deliver, not just be comfortable it seems.

It's clear under Dempster we were underachieving big time commercially and writing off hundreds of thousands of pounds just to make us look good even although it had a financial impact on the club. Those days are over under Ron.

[WhileTheChief..]

Surprised that anyone is questioning the value of East Mains.

It's been a cracking investment and provides an excellent, professional, training centre for the club.

Imagine having to rent somewhere or use public parks again, it's not exactly professional.

We can question how well it gets used but the place itself looks fantastic and has huge potential to be developed further.

[Allez Hibs]

Surprised that anyone is questioning the value of East Mains.

It's been a cracking investment and provides an excellent, professional, training centre for the club.

Imagine having to rent somewhere or use public parks again, it's not exactly professional.

We can question how well it gets used but the place itself looks fantastic and has huge potential to be developed further.

Nobody is questioning East Mains as a facility as it's massively important to the club. It's more questioning the number of youth players good enough to be established first team players produced since it was built.

[Andy74]

Nobody is questioning East Mains as a facility as it's massively important to the club. It's more questioning the number of youth players good enough to be established first team players priduced since it was built.

As has been explained though it wasn’t built as a youth academy. It is primarily a first team training facility.

[Allez Hibs]

As has been explained though it wasn’t built as a youth academy. It is primarily a first team training facility.

And yet the youth academy is based there!

Some serious deflection going on here.

Do we have a youth academy or not?

[Allant1981]

And yet the youth academy is based there!

Some serious deflection going on here.

Does it really matter where the academy is based

[Allez Hibs]

Does it really matter where the academy is based

You'd think that having the youth academy based at a wonderful training centre would be a benefit for a number of reasons. So yes, it does matter where it's based.

[Andy74]

You'd think that having the youth academy based at a wonderful training centre would be a benefit for a number of reasons. So yes, it does matter where it's based.

No I don’t think, despite the name, that we really have a youth academy in the way that you might think of it from models down South or in Europe.

[Brightside]

It couldn’t be more personal because someone said he made a mess of paperwork? :faf:

You’ve obviously never had anyone criticise or slag you in your life if you think it doesn’t get any more personal than that. This is getting ridiculous now.

Again. Why are you aiming that at me? I’ve not made any personal remarks to you. If I wasn’t so thick of skin I’d perhaps take that as bullying?

[Brightside]

And yet the youth academy is based there!

Some serious deflection going on here.

Do we have a youth academy or not?

Why on earth are you arguing about the youth academy? It’s got nothing at all to do with the subject.

[Peevemor]

Guess we’ll shut down Hibs.net then as nearly everything discussed about Hibs on here comes back around to someone and their professional ability and is therefore a ‘personal attack’ whether that’s the player, manager, chairman or ticket office staff.What are you on about? I never said that we shouldn't comment.

I was responding to the ludicrous suggestion that any criticism of Graeme Mathie isn't personal.

What makes it worse IMO is that, unlike a players' performances which we can all watch and rewatch, Mathie's being criticised based on nothing but speculation.

The signing of Paul McGinn - was it down to Mathie or JR? We don't know.

The non signing of Jason Kerr - was that down to Mathie, JR or Ron Gordon? We don't know.

[Blaster]

And yet the youth academy is based there!

Some serious deflection going on here.

Do we have a youth academy or not?

There are washing machines there too. Doesn’t make it a launderette

You seem to be getting your knickers in a twist about something unrelated to the subject

[Smartie]

What are you on about? I never said that we shouldn't comment.

I was responding to the ludicrous suggestion that any criticism of Graeme Mathie isn't personal.

What makes it worse IMO is that, unlike a players' performances which we can all watch and rewatch, Mathie's being criticised based on nothing but speculation.

The signing of Paul McGinn - was it down to Mathie or JR? We don't know.

The non signing of Jason Kerr - was that down to Mathie, JR or Ron Gordon? We don't know.

We can comment (speculate) on aspects of the end product of Mathie's department, even if we don't know the finer details of how they might have been reached.

It would be fair say that we have a pretty good squad and the standard of player Hibs have had playing for us has risen in recent years. It would also be fair to say that our squad is light in places and that that might cost us.

There's an awful lot behind the scenes that we're not going to know about, other than to read what can from public words from various people and snippets gained from those who may be in some way ITK.

Is it really all that awful for football fans to try to fill in the gaps, to speculate?

Comments that Ron Gordon needs to put his hand in his pocket or that Drey Wright had a stinker or that the pies are crap are ultimately a personal criticism of someone doing a job at Hibs. We're customers, paying punters - are we not entitled to an opinion, as misguided as that opinion might prove to be?

[Peevemor]

We can comment (speculate) on aspects of the end product of Mathie's department, even if we don't know the finer details of how they might have been reached.

It would be fair say that we have a pretty good squad and the standard of player Hibs have had playing for us has risen in recent years. It would also be fair to say that our squad is light in places and that that might cost us.

There's an awful lot behind the scenes that we're not going to know about, other than to read what can from public words from various people and snippets gained from those who may be in some way ITK.

Is it really all that awful for football fans to try to fill in the gaps, to speculate?

Comments that Ron Gordon needs to put his hand in his pocket or that Drey Wright had a stinker or that the pies are crap are ultimately a personal criticism of someone doing a job at Hibs. We're customers, paying punters - are we not entitled to an opinion, as misguided as that opinion might prove to be?

I don't disagree, but we can watch a player or taste a pie then form an opinion. Who's really in the know here about Mathie's work?

That doesn't stop us discussing him, but we should maybe bear in mind that we're all guessing.

[Smartie]

I don't disagree, but we can watch a player or taste a pie then form an opinion. Who's really in the know here about Mathie's work?

That doesn't stop us discussing him, but we should maybe bear in mind that we're all guessing.

Is the perceived strength of the first team squad not probably the best way to form an opinion on Mathie's work, even allowing for fuzzy overlap of his endeavours, the input of Jack Ross, and the budget provided by Ron Gordon/ we the fans?

He brings the players in. If we bring in adequate players by way of numbers and quality, he's doing his job. If we're not, by extension he's not.

[jacomo]

I don't disagree, but we can watch a player or taste a pie then form an opinion. Who's really in the know here about Mathie's work?

That doesn't stop us discussing him, but we should maybe bear in mind that we're all guessing.


Indeed we are, but Graeme is in a senior leadership position at the club and with that comes responsibility. Ultimately he carries the can for our transfer activity whether directly involved or not.

I agree with others on here that the ‘deadline day debacle’ has been overplayed. Trying to sign a player who became available at very late notice would always carry an element of risk.

[Peevemor]

Is the perceived strength of the first team squad not probably the best way to form an opinion on Mathie's work, even allowing for fuzzy overlap of his endeavours, the input of Jack Ross, and the budget provided by Ron Gordon/ we the fans?

He brings the players in. If we bring in adequate players by way of numbers and quality, he's doing his job. If we're not, by extension he's not.

What if he'd been instructed by Ron to accept a last minute offer for a player which Mathie didn't want to do but had to? Who would we have blamed?

[Smartie]

What if he'd been instructed by Ron to accept a last minute offer for a player which Mathie didn't want to do but had to? Who would we have blamed?

Fair point, I accept that it's not black and white, and that there are all sorts of situations that may contribute.

The timing of this move is also really bizarre. If we scrape through to the point where we get Doidge back, we get Mueller in and then successfully strengthen anywhere that looks like it needs strengthening in January then it's not beyond the realms of possibility that we might actually end up going to have our most successful season in yonks.

I'm not sure if axing the guy who has been part of an awful lot of successful recruitment in recent years is the answer.

If the strength of the squad is the way to judge Graeme Mathie - we're a bit short of depth up front, that's all, and it may or may not yet cost us.

To back up your point though - what we don't about is what targets may have been set behind the scenes, and our recruitment may be considered a success or a failure depending on the questions being asked of Mathie from within the club.

[One Day Soon]

My thoughts on this are that virtually no-one in any walk of life is irreplaceable, whenever an employee leaves it is always an opportunity to sign better and whether replacing Mathie results in an improvement depends substantially upon the ambition of those making the decisions about his replacement.

Is commenting on this personal? I'm not sure that whether it is or isn't is particularly relevant at all. It's a fan website where every aspect of the club is going to be discussed and a football club is a place where almost every employee knows they are potentially in the public opinion firing line.

Whether you're a politician falling off a mobility device in daft circumstances, a prominent figure at a football club moving on or being moved on or a celebrity in the public eye behaving well or badly you are going to be the subject of comment and opinion. That's life.

[SMAXXA]

James Fowler cough cough 😷

[Billy Whizz]

James Fowler cough cough 😷

Where is he going

[Smartie]

James Fowler cough cough 😷

"Assisted Jack Ross at St Mirren and Sunderland".

What did Potter do at Sunderland?

[JimBHibees]

My thoughts on this are that virtually no-one in any walk of life is irreplaceable, whenever an employee leaves it is always an opportunity to sign better and whether replacing Mathie results in an improvement depends substantially upon the ambition of those making the decisions about his replacement.

Is commenting on this personal? I'm not sure that whether it is or isn't is particularly relevant at all. It's a fan website where every aspect of the club is going to be discussed and a football club is a place where almost every employee knows they are potentially in the public opinion firing line.

Whether you're a politician falling off a mobility device in daft circumstances, a prominent figure at a football club moving on or being moved on or a celebrity in the public eye behaving well or badly you are going to be the subject of comment and opinion. That's life.

Good summary

[JimBHibees]

"Assisted Jack Ross at St Mirren and Sunderland".

What did Potter do at Sunderland?

Assume one an assistant the other coach. Was certainly three of them. Would make sense given how tightly they have worked in the past. Thought Fowler was in a senior position at Killie

[Andy74]

Assume one an assistant the other coach. Was certainly three of them. Would make sense given how tightly they have worked in the past. Thought he was in a senior position at Killie

Head of Football Operations. Funnily enough.

[Billy Whizz]

"Assisted Jack Ross at St Mirren and Sunderland".

What did Potter do at Sunderland?

Jack getting his way then

[JimBHibees]

Head of Football Operations. Funnily enough.

Would make sense

[JimBHibees]

Jack getting his way then

Sounds like it if true

[Billy Whizz]

Would make sense

His recruitment was that good Killie went down last season

[bigwheel]

His recruitment was that good Killie went down last season

Fair point that !

[bingo70]

Jack getting his way then

A job like this shouldn’t be picked by the manager. The guy might need to sack him at one point so although they need to get on, they shouldn’t be too close I wouldn’t have thought?

[Stuart93]

James Fowler cough cough 😷

Oft hope not. Only have to see how badly killie have been run recently.

[Heisenberg]

Fowler doesn’t exactly stand out as being a good option after his work at Killie.

[RMQ1967]

Oft hope not. Only have to see how badly killie have been run recently.

Tommy Wright in too late probably, Lafferty (who done very well for them) and now a few ex-Hibs players in the squad. Not sure how long JF has been there or his role in signings and appointments but I think he'd be an excellent appointment for us - recall he done very well as manager of QoS a long time back.

[Mr. Wonderful]

Large periods of life under Petrie were spent with the club in either a comatose state of inaction or on a downward spiral.
Towards the end it was like we had shut down commercially too.
I would humbly suggest that the club is now receiving a much needed boot up the erse.

Rod ultimately left the club in its best state ever. That' was his remit and he achieved it. Whilst the above is true, that doesn't make this decision the correct one though. Especially if we just go and appoint Fowler instead.

[bingo70]

Rod ultimately left the club in its best state ever. That' was his remit and he achieved it. Whilst the above is true, that doesn't make this decision the correct one though. Especially if we just go and appoint Fowler instead.

I’ll be annoyed if we appoint Fowler tbh.

Would look to me like someone who’s always been regarded as good at his job has been forced out so Ross can get his mate in.

I’d be surprised and disappointed if we go down this route.

[Dmas]

I’ll be annoyed if we appoint Fowler tbh.

Would look to me like someone who’s always been regarded as good at his job has been forced out so Ross can get his mate in.

I’d be surprised and disappointed if we go down this route.

I’m the same the link does suggest it’s Ron who wants his own team in place rather than it being the managers pal though just need to wait and see how it pans out.

I’ve enjoyed reading and listening to Mathie since January and I think over the piece between him and George craig there’s been a huge improvement to the recruitment process at hibs, he’ll be a big miss

[ScottB]

I’ll be annoyed if we appoint Fowler tbh.

Would look to me like someone who’s always been regarded as good at his job has been forced out so Ross can get his mate in.

I’d be surprised and disappointed if we go down this route.

Agreed. If Mathie is going, I’d be hoping for as impressive an appointment as our new CEO.

The point of splitting things away from the manager is to give us continuity apart from that largely short term, changeable position. Appointing the current managers mate really doesn’t fit that, nor does he appear to have any better a reputation than Mathie.

[Sergio sledge]

I’ll be annoyed if we appoint Fowler tbh.

Would look to me like someone who’s always been regarded as good at his job has been forced out so Ross can get his mate in.

I’d be surprised and disappointed if we go down this route.

Yup, it would also signal to me that we would be moving away from the director of football with head coach below him model to more of a traditional manager with his people around him, which I don't think is the best. What happens if Ross needs sacked, do we get rid of Fowler too?

Is Jack Ross wanting more power and control?

I think that the continuity and progression we've shown since Dempster brought in the DOF/head coach model shows that it works (heckingbottom aside) so I'd be disappointed to move away from this.

[calumhibee1]

What are you on about? I never said that we shouldn't comment.

I was responding to the ludicrous suggestion that any criticism of Graeme Mathie isn't personal.

What makes it worse IMO is that, unlike a players' performances which we can all watch and rewatch, Mathie's being criticised based on nothing but speculation.

The signing of Paul McGinn - was it down to Mathie or JR? We don't know.

The non signing of Jason Kerr - was that down to Mathie, JR or Ron Gordon? We don't know.

Do you know what the players are being asked to do week in week out? Of course you don’t. Would it stop you commenting on their performance? Of course it wouldn’t.

Maybe Paul McGinn is told to let crosses come in. Would people criticise him for constantly doing it? Possibly? Is it personal? Of course it’s not.

The idea that because you don’t know intricate ins and outs of Mathies job that you can’t speculate as to why he was sacked is laughable. You’re essentially holding criticism of Mathie to a much higher burden of proof than anyone else at the club.

Players are criticised on nothing but perception. It’s the perception of how they performed. Some might think they done well, some might think they were *****.

Mathie is getting the same treatment. You and others are being utterly ridiculous by suggesting that people should just discuss what’s potentially happened. But It doesn’t surprise me in the slightest that it’s you that’s doing it and that it’s you and a couple of others who are giving it the Uber fan ‘you’ll no catch me criticising folk cause I know better’ patter.

[Peevemor]

Do you know what the players are being asked to do week in week out? Of course you don’t. Would it stop you commenting on their performance? Of course it wouldn’t.

Maybe Paul McGinn is told to let crosses come in. Would people criticise him for constantly doing it? Possibly? Is it personal? Of course it’s not.

The idea that because you don’t know intricate ins and outs of Mathies job that you can’t speculate as to why he was sacked is laughable. You’re essentially holding criticism of Mathie to a much higher burden of proof than anyone else at the club.

Players are criticised on nothing but perception. It’s the perception of how they performed. Some might think they done well, some might think they were *****.

Mathie is getting the same treatment. You and others are being utterly ridiculous by suggesting that people should just discuss what’s potentially happened. But It doesn’t surprise me in the slightest that it’s you that’s doing it and that it’s you and a couple of others who are giving it the Uber fan ‘you’ll no catch me criticising folk cause I know better’ patter.Yeah, you're right. As always.

[CMurdoch]

Pound for pound spent I reckon Mathie will be almost impossible to beat.Mathies recruits have us best of the rest with a team put together for a little over £1 millon which has a resale value of 10 times that sum. If the next guy gets the recruiting even a little wrong we could lose money hand over fist as we have seen the pink fellaes doin' across town.

[bingo70]

Bit strange that nothing from Hibs today on this?

Rumours maybe not true and the papers got it wrong?

[Mikey_1875]

Bit strange that nothing from Hibs today on this?

Rumours maybe not true and the papers got it wrong?

I wondered that myself. Was thinking maybe they are busy with the new screen promos or just want to wait till after the St Mirren game. Might be a notice period till the end of month and they would announce it then.

I’d be surprised if it wasn’t true considering it’s pretty much been reported as fact by some news outlets (naive I know) but stranger things have happened.

[calumhibee1]

Yeah, you're right. As always.

The lack of self awareness in this post is off the scale :faf:

No surprises you didn’t reply to any of the points and resorted to arsey replies. How very Peevemor.

As I’ve said before, your ongoing posts after your ban (when you were banned essentially for being hugely disrespectful to other posters) make your call for everyone to be more respectful upon return from your ban absolutely hilarious. Another show of a complete lack of self awareness.

I look forward to you actually being able to have an actual adult discussion and address my points but I’ll certainly not hold my breath.

[CapitalGreen]

Pound for pound spent I reckon Mathie will be almost impossible to beat.Mathies recruits have us best of the rest with a team put together for a little over £1 millon which has a resale value of 10 times that sum. If the next guy gets the recruiting even a little wrong we could lose money hand over fist as we have seen the pink fellaes doin' across town.

Mathie didn’t work alone in building the squad, he oversaw a team of scouts and analysts whose job it is to identify good players and then it is his job to get them in the door. It appears we have continued to do the former well but he has had a few high profile fails in the latter which have left the manager short and caused embarrassment to the club.

[scoopyboy]

Pound for pound spent I reckon Mathie will be almost impossible to beat.Mathies recruits have us best of the rest with a team put together for a little over £1 millon which has a resale value of 10 times that sum. If the next guy gets the recruiting even a little wrong we could lose money hand over fist as we have seen the pink fellaes doin' across town.

I don't think it's the ones that he has brought in that have cost him his job, from what I can gather it's the ones he failed to bring in.

[Willis1875]

Will James McDonagh be under consideration?….recently rejoined the club in the academy setup and done a similar job at Edinburgh City albeit on a lesser scale

[calumhibee1]

Will James McDonagh be under consideration?….recently rejoined the club in the academy setup and done a similar job at Edinburgh City albeit on a lesser scale

I’d hope not.

I’d hope we’re aiming far higher than that.

[H18 SFR]

I sense this is a pivotal moment in our development.

I fear though, that it is a wrong move.

[Willis1875]

I’d hope not.

I’d hope we’re aiming far higher than that.

So would I aswell as the previously mentioned James Fowler…was just a thought that sprung to mind

[Peevemor]

The lack of self awareness in this post is off the scale :faf:

No surprises you didn’t reply to any of the points and resorted to arsey replies. How very Peevemor.

As I’ve said before, your ongoing posts after your ban (when you were banned essentially for being hugely disrespectful to other posters) make your call for everyone to be more respectful upon return from your ban absolutely hilarious. Another show of a complete lack of self awareness.

I look forward to you actually being able to have an actual adult discussion and address my points but I’ll certainly not hold my breath.

:aok:

[Mikey_1875]

So would I aswell as the previously mentioned James Fowler…was just a thought that sprung to mind

It was rumoured that he left EC because he was sick of the boardroom and wanted to get back into coaching I think.

[Willis1875]

It was rumoured that he left EC because he was sick of the boardroom and wanted to get back into coaching I think.

Cheers Mikey,must have missed that

[calumhibee1]

:aok:

As I thought.

[bingo70]

As I thought. Right again, as always as you said.

Stop needing to have the final word 😂

FWIW I agree with you but you’re never going to change Peevemors mind. The both of yours need to have the last word in every argument will be the death of me I’m sure 😂

[truehibernian]

Will James McDonagh be under consideration?….recently rejoined the club in the academy setup and done a similar job at Edinburgh City albeit on a lesser scale

I wonder if John Collins would return to the club……..

[Jones28]

I wonder if John Collins would return to the club……..

Collins philosophy (which I doubt is much different from Jack Ross’) but with JR’s man management is very promising. I don’t hold much of a candle for JC’s transfer record though!

[Smartie]

I wonder if John Collins would return to the club……..

He'd be as well returning to head up our "self deprecation and beer gut growing" unit as he would be coming in to take charge of recruitment.

It wasn't his strong point.

[Peevemor]

Stop needing to have the final word 😂

FWIW I agree with you but you’re never going to change Peevemors mind. The both of yours need to have the last word in every arg ument will be the death of me I’m sure 😂

I've given up.

[truehibernian]

He'd be as well returning to head up our "self deprecation and beer gut growing" unit as he would be coming in to take charge of recruitment.

It wasn't his strong point.

Can’t disagree but a lot has happened since his departure and he did have to deal with Rod re-directing finance to other important areas of the club (rightly). Less pressure than management and more time to focus on identifying players that fit JR’s plans. Wants the game played the right way too. It was just a suggestion and it might be something that interested him.

[Smartie]

Can’t disagree but a lot has happened since his departure and he did have to deal with Rod re-directing finance to other important areas of the club (rightly). Less pressure than management and more time to focus on identifying players that fit JR’s plans. Wants the game played the right way too. It was just a suggestion and it might be something that interested him.

FWIW I've always been disappointed that John Collins never really found his niche post playing career.

There was something about him, he had real strengths. It's a shame that he never really found a role that didn't expose his weaknesses because I always felt he had a lot to offer someone, somewhere, with the right help around him.

In terms of our current situation though I'd say he'd be an alternative for Ross if anyone. If he'd had someone handing him players a bit better than Alan O'Brien to work with then who knows what he might have achieved?

[Allez Hibs]

I wonder if John Collins would return to the club……..

John Collins would be outstanding as Sporting Director.

[CMurdoch]

Mathie didn’t work alone in building the squad, he oversaw a team of scouts and analysts whose job it is to identify good players and then it is his job to get them in the door. It appears we have continued to do the former well but he has had a few high profile fails in the latter which have left the manager short and caused embarrassment to the club.
I don't think it's the ones that he has brought in that have cost him his job, from what I can gather it's the ones he failed to bring in.(Apologies for the lack of paragraphs. Issue with the site for days.)As ever we don't have the facts about Mathies dealings and are guessing about what has gone on.I obviously understand Mathie was the head of a team and it was his job to get the deals for the targets over the line.However, not only did he have to sign players for the 3rd best team in the country who would be good enough to play for that team but they also had to have potential to be sold on for a big profit. The difficult bit is he had to do all this with little in the way of money to offer the clubs he was approaching. Looking at the high profile fails of Ojo & McCrorie it would be hard to argue against the belief that they were lost to Aberdeen because they were willing to offer the players more money than Hibs. That is surely down to Hibs.Of the other high profile fails McCart appeared to fail because Hibs wouldn't give St Johnstone the transfer fee they believed he was worth and told us to bolt. Again down to Hibs.The strangest one is McCarthy, from what I have read he was going to Middlesboro but at 11pm negotiations broke down and Hibs tried to jump in and take advantage for a player Ross wanted. However, with only an hour to do it we tried to put together a massively complex deal involving 3 players and cash. So agreement was required with 3 players and their agents and between the 2 clubs in an hour including the drawing up of agreed contracts. Not surprisingly given the number of variables it couldn't be done in time. Hard to pinpoint whose fault that was.

[The Modfather]

Rod ultimately left the club in its best state ever. That' was his remit and he achieved it. Whilst the above is true, that doesn't make this decision the correct one though. Especially if we just go and appoint Fowler instead.

While it’s been done to death, and not relevant to this thread, I can’t agree that Petrie left the club in its best state ever.

He deserves credit for the infrastructure and also for seemingly getting a good deal on the cost to build it. However he did so on the back of devastating the football side of Hibs and alienating the support. The three events that made where we are today, namely the Golden generation coming through, appointing Dempster to sort his mess & and the cup win, were strokes of luck that were unplanned. Using an unplanned windfall to build infrastructure is a smart move, but the easy part. You only have to look at what Ron has done so far to show how limited Petrie, and Scottish football, was IMO.

[Unseen work]

James Fowler hasn’t done anywhere near enough to be considered for the Hibs job. They got relegated last season and were a mess, although their recruitment over the summer seems much better.

There’s no way Ron and Kensell would give it to Fowler just because he’s Ross’ friend and he was previously his assistant.

Kensell will have his own ideas on how he wants the club to operate

[Mr. Wonderful]

While it’s been done to death, and not relevant to this thread, I can’t agree that Petrie left the club in its best state ever.

He deserves credit for the infrastructure and also for seemingly getting a good deal on the cost to build it. However he did so on the back of devastating the football side of Hibs and alienating the support. The three events that made where we are today, namely the Golden generation coming through, appointing Dempster to sort his mess & and the cup win, were strokes of luck that were unplanned. Using an unplanned windfall to build infrastructure is a smart move, but the easy part. You only have to look at what Ron has done so far to show how limited Petrie, and Scottish football, was IMO.

What has Ron done so far, exactly?

[Allez Hibs]

While it’s been done to death, and not relevant to this thread, I can’t agree that Petrie left the club in its best state ever.

He deserves credit for the infrastructure and also for seemingly getting a good deal on the cost to build it. However he did so on the back of devastating the football side of Hibs and alienating the support. The three events that made where we are today, namely the Golden generation coming through, appointing Dempster to sort his mess & and the cup win, were strokes of luck that were unplanned. Using an unplanned windfall to build infrastructure is a smart move, but the easy part. You only have to look at what Ron has done so far to show how limited Petrie, and Scottish football, was IMO.

Totally agree. The Fenlon and Butcher era teams make me shudder, absolute torture Hibs teams.

Yes, there was an element of luck with 2016 and how different Dempsters tenure would look if it hadn't happened. Now Ron looks to be showing the rest of Scottish Football how things should be done.

[Brightside]

John Collins would be outstanding as Sporting Director.

Based on what? He has no experience in that role.

[Allez Hibs]

Based on what? He has no experience in that role.

His playing career speaks for itself.

Did Van Der Sar at Ajax, Nedved at Juventus or Edu at Arsenal have any experience before they started as Sporting Director at respective clubs?

[bingo70]

What has Ron done so far, exactly?

Oversaw Hibs finishing 3rd in his first full season, spent money on Nisbet with a view to selling him on again in the future, turned down big money offers for key players, renewed contracts for important players to ensure they never became out of contract and transformed the corporate side of the club to ensure we’ve announced more sponsorship deals than I’ve had hit dinners over the last 6 months.

I’m sure there’s other things but it’s not a bad start.

[truehibernian]

Based on what? He has no experience in that role.

Successful playing career, played here and abroad, managed the club to a cup win, been an assistant at Celtic and won trophies, played for Scotland, has media experience, first hand experience of agents and contracts..............a lot more than GM and that's not a slight on GM either.

[The Modfather]

What has Ron done so far, exactly?

Made the commercial side his first focus, which is already night and day to the previous regime. Our recruitment also looks on another level in terms of ambition.

[Smartie]

Successful playing career, played here and abroad, managed the club to a cup win, been an assistant at Celtic and won trophies, played for Scotland, has media experience, first hand experience of agents and contracts..............a lot more than GM and that's not a slight on GM either.

Does much of that prepare you for a role as "Sporting Director" though?

What exactly are the credentials required for a Sporting Director?

George Craig did a pretty good job of getting a lot of what we now have set up. Were his credentials not mainly from being part of a fan initiative at Falkirk?

Given that Collins had a habit of occasionally rubbing folk up the wrong way and that the recruitment whilst he was manager was atrocious, I don't know if he'd be the natural fit that some might want to think he would be for this role.

[CapitalGreen]

(Apologies for the lack of paragraphs. Issue with the site for days.)As ever we don't have the facts about Mathies dealings and are guessing about what has gone on.I obviously understand Mathie was the head of a team and it was his job to get the deals for the targets over the line.However, not only did he have to sign players for the 3rd best team in the country who would be good enough to play for that team but they also had to have potential to be sold on for a big profit.

This isn’t true, most players we have signed have been done so without the expectation of selling on for a profit.


The difficult bit is he had to do all this with little in the way of money to offer the clubs he was approaching. Looking at the high profile fails of Ojo & McCrorie it would be hard to argue against the belief that they were lost to Aberdeen because they were willing to offer the players more money than Hibs. That is surely down to Hibs.

Both Ojo and McCrorie had agreed to come to Hibs, they fell through because we dithered in finalising the deals which allowed Aberdeen to come in and offer better terms.


Of the other high profile fails McCart appeared to fail because Hibs wouldn't give St Johnstone the transfer fee they believed he was worth and told us to bolt. Again down to Hibs.

We have needed a new centre back since Jackson left, we surely aren’t expected to believe that McCart is the only suitable centre back in world football. Mathie put all his eggs in the McCart basket and when St Johnstone wouldn’t sell we were left high and dry without adequate centre back cover for a European tie we’d worked all season to get to.


The strangest one is McCarthy, from what I have read he was going to Middlesboro but at 11pm negotiations broke down and Hibs tried to jump in and take advantage for a player Ross wanted. However, with only an hour to do it we tried to put together a massively complex deal involving 3 players and cash. So agreement was required with 3 players and their agents and between the 2 clubs in an hour including the drawing up of agreed contracts. Not surprisingly given the number of variables it couldn't be done in time. Hard to pinpoint whose fault that was.

Hard to pinpoint from outside the club maybe but internally the club will know who was at fault and he who is ultimately responsible for our transfer dealings has lost his job.

[Allez Hibs]

What has Ron done so far, exactly?

Really? Have you not been following the club or listening to him speak? He looks to be implementing a plan for how a club should be run to be ambitious and asking the bodies that run Scottish football to take a look at themselves.

See below for an insight into Ron's thinking.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hibs-boss-jack-ross-believes-scottish-football-could-be-better-marketed-as-he-has-say-on-spfl-review-3386341

[Allez Hibs]

Successful playing career, played here and abroad, managed the club to a cup win, been an assistant at Celtic and won trophies, played for Scotland, has media experience, first hand experience of agents and contracts..............a lot more than GM and that's not a slight on GM either.

JC is exactly the type of person we should be looking yo appoint as Sporting Director.

[bingo70]

JC is exactly the type of person we should be looking yo appoint as Sporting Director.

Maybe the type of person but not him.

I love JC and could listen to him talk about football for hours but he’s not right for this role I don’t think.

[Allez Hibs]

Maybe the type of person but not him.

I love JC and could listen to him talk about football for hours but he’s not right for this role I don’t think.

Agree with that, that perhaps JC might not be right but definitely someone like him.

[Jones28]

What has Ron done so far, exactly?

Ffs you have to be blind to be asking that.

[CMurdoch]

This isn’t true, most players we have signed have been done so without the expectation of selling on for a profit.
I give you Nisbet, Magennis, McKay, Doyle-Hayes and Tait in the last 15 months All young, buy low, develop, sell high
Both Ojo and McCrorie had agreed to come to Hibs, they fell through because we dithered in finalising the deals which allowed Aberdeen to come in and offer better terms.
That's why players have agents. Stop their charges signing until they make a few phone calls in search of a better deal. You dither when you are having to count the pennies.
We have needed a new centre back since Jackson left, we surely aren’t expected to believe that McCart is the only suitable centre back in world football. Mathie put all his eggs in the McCart basket and when St Johnstone wouldn’t sell we were left high and dry without adequate centre back cover for a European tie we’d worked all season to get to.
We needed a CH after Jackson left but appeared to be trying to run with the smallest possible squad last season as we tried to minimise costs through covid. A lot of the dithering could be down to Ron wanting Mathie to buy for the lowest price all the time and thus tying Mathies hands together leaving Cormack to jump in. Ron has no experience of doing football deals. Agree all eggs in one basket with McCart though which could be the smoking gun.
Hard to pinpoint from outside the club maybe but internally the club will know who was at fault and he who is ultimately responsible for our transfer dealings has lost his job.
Ron holds the whiphand and Mathie has rightly or wrongly carried the can

[Brightside]

Successful playing career, played here and abroad, managed the club to a cup win, been an assistant at Celtic and won trophies, played for Scotland, has media experience, first hand experience of agents and contracts..............a lot more than GM and that's not a slight on GM either.

I think we are mixing up what the role is. Primarily it’s someone that can source good young players and ensure we keep th best talent we have or sell them for more funds for the club. He’s never done that and appears to have no interest in a football role. We need someone who has experience of working with tight budgets and finding hidden gems. Graham has done a decent job of that in the last few years. It’s going to be hard to find someone better. Easy to do it with £100m budgets.

[Ardenttwo]

Maybe the type of person but not him.

I love JC and could listen to him talk about football for hours but he’s not right for this role I don’t think.


Give the role to Big Yogi. After all fitba folk ken

[Mr. Wonderful]

Ffs you have to be blind to be asking that.

In football terms, he's got us 3rd place and no trophies. Petrie had us finish 3rd at some point too.

Are we much better off or are you buying the hype/PR?

[overdrive]

I think we are mixing up what the role is. Primarily it’s someone that can source good young players and ensure we keep th best talent we have or sell them for more funds for the club. He’s never done that and appears to have no interest in a football role. We need someone who has experience of working with tight budgets and finding hidden gems. Graham has done a decent job of that in the last few years. It’s going to be hard to find someone better. Easy to do it with £100m budgets.

I don’t want JC in the role but he has been a Director of Football before, at Livingston. Not sure how successful he was there.

[04Sauzee]

In football terms, he's got us 3rd place and no trophies. Petrie had us finish 3rd at some point too.

Are we much better off or are you buying the hype/PR?

Much better off, not even an argument.

[superfurryhibby]

In football terms, he's got us 3rd place and no trophies. Petrie had us finish 3rd at some point too.

Are we much better off or are you buying the hype/PR?

What hype are Hibs fans buying into?

[Mr. Wonderful]

What hype are Hibs fans buying into?

Big screens are nice but I'd like us to be able to meet the asking price for players the manager wants for starters.

[Caversham Green]

Anyone know what Nicky Hammond's been doing since he left Celtc?

[Peevemor]

I don't understand why people keep bringing up John Collins when posts become available.

Mathie's role is about managing people (he's at the head of our football pyramid) and recruitment - neither being Collins' forte from what I remember.

[Brightside]

I don’t want JC in the role but he has been a Director of Football before, at Livingston. Not sure how successful he was there.

Yeh that didn’t go well. Got the job via his golfing partner (yogi). Left when they removed Gareth Evans against his wishes. I love JC but this job is nowhere near his skill set.

[Since90+2]

I don't understand why people keep bringing up John Collins when posts become available.

Mathie's role is about managing people (he's at the head of our football pyramid) and recruitment - neither being Collins' forte from what I remember.

The role might be the head of the football pyramid but in reality it's a more junior role than Head Coach. The Head Coach is the most important person at the football club.

[bingo70]

I don't understand why people keep bringing up John Collins when posts become available.

Mathie's role is about managing people (he's at the head of our football pyramid) and recruitment - neither being Collins' forte from what I remember.

I think it’s because in theory he’s the type of person who should be ideal for this role.

He knows Scottish football, he’s ambitious, experienced football abroad so knows what it can be achieved, should have contacts abroad, believes in a brand of football most of us want to see, won a cup with us as a manger and did it in a style most of us have never seen when winning a trophy. On top of that he talks a very good game in the media.

Despite all that, I agree with you, he’s not the man for this job. For whatever reason he’s never been able to put those attributes together to really find a role he’s good at after playing. It just seems on paper he should tick a lot of boxes.

[CMurdoch]

Big screens are nice but I'd like us to be able to meet the asking price for players the manager wants for starters.

The big screens are business. RG reckons they will pay for themselves in 2 years so nothing wrong there.
Covid stopped Hibs plans in their tracks for 18 months and naturally made RG cautious which will have cost us a few players.
The world is still in the grip and influence of covid and today will be only our 2nd game at unrestricted capacity but with the spectre of a winter wave with a risk of restrictions around the corner.
Next summer will see big moves from Hibs on the player transfer front with 12 players out of contract and McGregor likely to retire.
Their replacements should see a jump up in quality. Supporters need to be patient until then. An old story but we are on the cusp of real improvement IF we sign the right players. That is the key, gutted that Mathie is gone and we could easily be set back 2 years and lots of cash if the new guy appointed has lesser judgement and real ability than Mathie. Lots of style over substance operators out there.
The vast majority of Allan, Wright, Gogic, McGregor, Hallberg, Gullan, Stevenson, McGinn, Mackie and Murphy almost certainly gone from the team and replaced with new players. Doidge and Hanlon probably the favourites for new contracts.
All things considered probably best to save your appraisal for a year.
On the upside Boyle, Nisbet, Doig and Magennis on long contracts, No debt, Cadden back, Murphy back in a month, Doidge back in 2 months and Muller arrives in 3 months and
3 Hibs games for supporters to attend in the next 8 days!

[Peevemor]

The role might be the head of the football pyramid but in reality it's a more junior role than Head Coach. The Head Coach is the most important person at the football club.I agree, although in theory he probably shouldn't be. In any case, the person in the job has to supervise and manage the entire football staff. Scouts, analysts, dieticians, physios, all sorts of coaches, etc.

[flash]

In football terms, he's got us 3rd place and no trophies. Petrie had us finish 3rd at some point too.

Are we much better off or are you buying the hype/PR?

Who knows? Give RG time and he might get us relegated too.

[Since452]

In football terms, he's got us 3rd place and no trophies. Petrie had us finish 3rd at some point too.

Are we much better off or are you buying the hype/PR?

The key is doing it consistently. Petite failed massively in that respect. If we finish 3rd again this season then he's trumped Petrie in league terms already and he's just in the door.

[Peevemor]

The key is doing it consistently. Petite failed massively in that respect. If we finish 3rd again this season then he's trumped Petrie in league terms already and he's just in the door.Petrie wasn't gambling with his own money though - Ron is. STF had more invested in Hibs for almost the whole time he was involved than Ron currently has so it's not really the same playing field.

That's not to say that Ron's not an improvement on RP/STF, just that he's not starting from the same point.

[CMurdoch]

The key is doing it consistently. Petite failed massively in that respect. If we finish 3rd again this season then he's trumped Petrie in league terms already and he's just in the door.

Easy for the present regime to flourish.

Petrie had to get a team on the pitch whilst dealing with vast debt, a crumbling stadium fit for the 1930's and the players training in public parks
Ron came in after the hard painful miles had been done.

As things stand Petrie got rid of vast debt, built a new stadium and a training centre.
Ron too date has put up some big screens and updated the food kiosks.
He would have run a mile in 1991.

[JimBHibees]

Anyone know what Nicky Hammond's been doing since he left Celtc?

Who he?

[blackpoolhibs]

John Collins would be outstanding as Sporting Director.



Agree with that, that perhaps JC might not be right but definitely someone like him.

Half an hour and he's gone from an outstanding candidate, to him maybe not being right for the post. :faf:

[Caversham Green]

Who he?

He was Reading's DoF (or similar) during their successful period, was headhunted by West Brom and then Celtc - left them earlier this year. A goalkeeper in his playing days (had a stint at Aberdeen I think), then a coach before being promoted at Reading. He's still very highly regarded down here and seems to know his stuff. Probably crossed paths with Ben Kensell over the years as well.

He looks like a good fit for Hibs imo.

[Since452]

Easy for the present regime to flourish.

Petrie had to get a team on the pitch whilst dealing with vast debt, a crumbling stadium fit for the 1930's and the players training in public parks
Ron came in after the hard painful miles had been done.

As things stand Petrie got rid of vast debt, built a new stadium and a training centre.
Ron too date has put up some big screens and updated the food kiosks.
He would have run a mile in 1991.

All those things happened I'm not disagreeing but we were also relegated on his watch twice, once when all the debt was pretty much gone, the stadium was finished and we were training at East Mains. A succession of hopeless managers and sub standard players and horrific embarrassing results on his watch too. For me he definitely underachieved.

[inglisavhibs]

Easy for the present regime to flourish.

Petrie had to get a team on the pitch whilst dealing with vast debt, a crumbling stadium fit for the 1930's and the players training in public parks
Ron came in after the hard painful miles had been done.

As things stand Petrie got rid of vast debt, built a new stadium and a training centre.
Ron too date has put up some big screens and updated the food kiosks.
He would have run a mile in 1991.
Pretty certain Ron almost immediately paid of our outstanding mortgage of around £3m out his own pocket which was being paid back at round £0.5m per annum. It’s also true that a lot of the hard work had been done.

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Easy for the present regime to flourish.

Petrie had to get a team on the pitch whilst dealing with vast debt, a crumbling stadium fit for the 1930's and the players training in public parks
Ron came in after the hard painful miles had been done.

As things stand Petrie got rid of vast debt, built a new stadium and a training centre.
Ron too date has put up some big screens and updated the food kiosks.
He would have run a mile in 1991.

If you are comparing Ron and Rod, then at least give Ron the same amount of time as Rod had. Ridiculous to compare the two just now.

[Brightside]

This thread is all over the place. 😂

[Sergio sledge]

The role might be the head of the football pyramid but in reality it's a more junior role than Head Coach. The Head Coach is the most important person at the football club.I don't think that's right and I don't think that's the model Dempster implemented when she came to the club.

Prior to that we had managers who were the most senior people at the club on the football side of things, when they moved on for whatever reason we had to also bin assistant managers, coaches and sometimes even scouts (remember the super scout butcher brought with him).

When Dempster arrived she appointed George Craig as a head of football operations (or something like that), and he was part of the search for a new head coach.

Stubbs was appointed and Dempster said;

"Alan will be our head coach and that is part of the new structure in place at the football club; a continental-style model designed for continued long-term success."

The key to that is the long term success part, constantly changing managers, coaches, scouts and players as well as playing philosophy want working. In theory of you have a spring director who is in charge of everything including scouting and signing coaches and players (with the head coaches input) then when he leaves (hopefully after success), there is continuity in the playing squad and structure and a huge overhaul isn't needed. We saw what happened when Ross took over from Heckingbottom, he wasn't immediately changing the whole squad, just implementing steady change.

The head coach may be the face of the club but I don't think they are the most important person at the club IMHO, the sporting director should be, as they make all the decisions/recommendations on the head coach, players, recruitment etc.

Maybe Ron wants to get away from that model, I kind of hope not though.

[Peevemor]

I don't think that's right and I don't think that's the model Dempster implemented when she came to the club.

Prior to that we had managers who were the most senior people at the club on the football side of things, when they moved on for whatever reason we had to also bin assistant managers, coaches and sometimes even scouts (remember the super scout butcher brought with him).

When Dempster arrived she appointed George Craig as a head of football operations (or something like that), and he was part of the search for a new head coach.

Stubbs was appointed and Dempster said;

"Alan will be our head coach and that is part of the new structure in place at the football club; a continental-style model designed for continued long-term success."

The key to that is the long term success part, constantly changing managers, coaches, scouts and players as well as playing philosophy want working. In theory of you have a spring director who is in charge of everything including scouting and signing coaches and players (with the head coaches input) then when he leaves (hopefully after success), there is continuity in the playing squad and structure and a huge overhaul isn't needed. We saw what happened when Ross took over from Heckingbottom, he wasn't immediately changing the whole squad, just implementing steady change.

The head coach may be the face of the club but I don't think they are the most important person at the club IMHO, the sporting director should be, as they make all the decisions/recommendations on the head coach, players, recruitment etc.

Maybe Ron wants to get away from that model, I kind of hope not though.

100% my understanding too, and I suspect that relations with Neil Lennon were strained because of this. He probably made the right noises about accepting the set up when he was appointed but I doubt he would have accepted being overruled by George Craig or Graeme Mathie on any football decisions.

I wonder too if Jack Ross has been given more of a free rein than intended under the Dempster model - I'm thinking about coaches that have been changed and some players that have been signed.

[bingo70]

Half an hour and he's gone from an outstanding candidate, to him maybe not being right for the post. :faf:

I don’t see what’s wrong with that.

He’s come into the debate with an opinion but upon reading what was quite frankly a brilliant post by me, he was open minded enough to change his mind.

Not enough people willing to change their mind on here IMO. If you’re debating with an open mind it should happen more often. If you’re debating with a closed mind you’re as well speaking to a wall.

[Brightside]

100% my understanding too, and I suspect that relations with Neil Lennon were strained because of this. He probably made the right noises about accepting the set up when he was appointed but I doubt he would have accepted being overruled by George Craig or Graeme Mathie on any football decisions.

I wonder too if Jack Ross has been given more of a free rein than intended under the Dempster model - I'm thinking about coaches that have been changed and some players that have been signed.

This is pretty close to what I’ve heard. The structure is changing under the new CEO.

[Brightside]

I don’t see what’s wrong with that.

He’s come into the debate with an opinion but upon reading what was quite frankly a brilliant post by me, he was open minded enough to change his mind.

Not enough people willing to change their mind on here IMO. If you’re debating with an open mind it should happen more often. If you’re debating with a closed mind you’re as well speaking to a wall.

😂

[Allez Hibs]

Transfer window biting us today. Nisbet poor on his own up front and no options.

[calumhibee1]

Transfer window biting us today. Nisbet poor on his own up front and no options.

We’re going to toil with Nisbet as our only decent option up top.

He’s a great goal scorer and on his day his all round play can be really good as well but that side of his game is extremely hit and miss. Today it was rotten and we’re just left hoping it somehow works improves.

[Allez Hibs]

I don’t see what’s wrong with that.

He’s come into the debate with an opinion but upon reading what was quite frankly a brilliant post by me, he was open minded enough to change his mind.

Not enough people willing to change their mind on here IMO. If you’re debating with an open mind it should happen more often. If you’re debating with a closed mind you’re as well speaking to a wall.

Thanks, should have said a John Collins type initially 👍

[Since90+2]

Transfer window biting us today. Nisbet poor on his own up front and no options.

Still top eh the league tho, eh.

[cabbageandribs1875]

JR when asked said it's not something he can talk about just now and that it would be up to senior management

[Allez Hibs]

Still top eh the league tho, eh.

Two points dropped, end of. Don't think prizes have ever been handed out after 6 games.

Lack of attacking options biting us.

[Ozyhibby]

Looking at how thin the squad is, it’s hard to argue for Mathie.


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[Wheat Hound]

JR also very clear again in his post match interview that he was disappointed with recruitment.

[Real Emerald]

Transfer window biting us today. Nisbet poor on his own up front and no options.

Exactly, we at the very least needed a short term striker until December on top of the back up striker we’ve needed for over a year. Nisbet looks totally lost and isolated on his own and we have nothing in reserve. Scott doesn’t look like the answer but his absence today compounds our shortfall. Poor

[660]

John Collins to replace Mathie is up there with one of the most mental suggestions I’ve read on here

[Since90+2]

Two points dropped, end of. Don't think prizes have ever been handed out after 6 games.

Lack of attacking options biting us.

Top of the league. End of.

[A Hi-Bee]

Heard he was in the kiosks today trying to get them to work faster.
:greengrin

[Magpie]

Not sure what’s up with Nisbet, really out of form at the moment. We are screaming for another striker.

[Pretty Boy]

JR also very clear again in his post match interview that he was disappointed with recruitment.

Yep he didn't hold back.

3rd or 4th time he's mentioned now and it's not something I've heard from him prior to this window. He's making his point very publicly. I wonder if the message is to us as fans or to the people at the club who make these decisions?

[Allez Hibs]

Yep he didn't hold back.

3rd or 4th time he's mentioned now and it's not something I've heard from him prior to this window. He's making his point very publicly. I wonder if the message is to us as fans or to the people at the club who make these decisions?

Good on JR.

[J-C]

Yep he didn't hold back.

3rd or 4th time he's mentioned now and it's not something I've heard from him prior to this window. He's making his point very publicly. I wonder if the message is to us as fans or to the people at the club who make these decisions?

Rumours of a falling out with Mathie and if he's publicly slating our recruitment, he's putting it all on Mathie by the sound of it. I wonder if we've been too narrow minded recruitment wise and looking at the small Scottish market instead of looking further afield.

[calumhibee1]

It’s becoming apparent quite clearly after JRs interview why GM has been binned.

He didn’t hold back at all.

[Ozyhibby]

Rumours of a falling out with Mathie and if he's publicly slating our recruitment, he's putting it all on Mathie by the sound of it. I wonder if we've been too narrow minded recruitment wise and looking at the small Scottish market instead of looking further afield.

We def have not brought in enough players, wherever they are from.


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[calumhibee1]

We def have not brought in enough players, wherever they are from.


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Absolutely. Results like today will keep happening as if Nisbet isn’t at it then we’re up against it because we can’t change it.

It’s been extremely evident since Doidge got injured and it’ll potentially cost us a European place.

[Real Emerald]

Absolutely. Results like today will keep happening as if Nisbet isn’t at it then we’re up against it because we can’t change it.

It’s been extremely evident since Doidge got injured and it’ll potentially cost us a European place.

I find it inexplicable that we didn’t recruit another striker especially after the Doidge injury. We desperately needed a proper striker even on short term loan or some old timer that could have done a turn for us. To leave us this short is unacceptable.

[calumhibee1]

I find it inexplicable that we didn’t recruit another striker especially after the Doidge injury. We desperately needed a proper striker even on short term loan or some old timer that could have done a turn for us. To leave us this short is unacceptable.

Yup. It is unacceptable and JR and RG clearly think so as well.

Hopefully we can get someone in as a matter of urgency in January and not on the last day.

[Dalianwanda]

It’s becoming apparent quite clearly after JRs interview why GM has been binned.

He didn’t hold back at all.

Has he actually been binned or is it still just a strong rumour hes getting binned?

[jeffers]

Has he actually been binned or is it still just a strong rumour hes getting binned?

He’s been binned.

[calumhibee1]

Has he actually been binned or is it still just a strong rumour hes getting binned?

I think the fact JR declined to comment on him but then went on to heavily criticised our recruitment all but confirms it.

If he hadn’t he’d just say naw, it’s nonsense.

[SteveHFC]

I think the fact JR declined to comment on him but then went on to heavily criticised our recruitment all but confirms it.

If he hadn’t he’d just say naw, it’s nonsense.

You got a link to his interview mate?

[calumhibee1]

You got a link to his interview mate?

I don’t, sorry mate.

Not sure if the interviews still get put up by BBC after games?

[Dalianwanda]

I think the fact JR declined to comment on him but then went on to heavily criticised our recruitment all but confirms it.

If he hadn’t he’d just say naw, it’s nonsense.

Cool thanks, thought Id missed an announcement

[Sir David Gray]

You got a link to his interview mate?

It was on Sportsound so should be on the BBC website soon. He said twice he couldn't comment on the rumours and it was being dealt with by the senior management.

[Ronniekirk]

I find it inexplicable that we didn’t recruit another striker especially after the Doidge injury. We desperately needed a proper striker even on short term loan or some old timer that could have done a turn for us. To leave us this short is unacceptable.

I also think it’s clear Bringing Scott in has to date not added a lot to the team
And with Murphy injured you would of though Dan McKay would be getting more game time


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[calumhibee1]

I also think it’s clear Bringing Scott in has to date not added a lot to the team
And with Murphy injured you would of though Dan McKay would be getting more game time


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I know it’s early days but Scott hasn’t looked nearly good enough so far.

[Real Emerald]

I also think it’s clear Bringing Scott in has to date not added a lot to the team
And with Murphy injured you would of though Dan McKay would be getting more game time


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I know there’s a lot of controversy on the subject but Leigh Griffiths was available on a short term loan. What other Hibs supporting international striker, best finisher in the country could have helped us out over this striker crisis?

[calumhibee1]

I know there’s a lot of controversy on the subject but Leigh Griffiths was available on a short term loan. What other Hibs supporting international striker, best finisher in the country could have helped us out over this striker crisis?

I said the same when Nisbet stepped over the free kick with the last kick of the game

It’s criminal that we need a striker so badly and he’s went to Dundee.

[JimBHibees]

I also think it’s clear Bringing Scott in has to date not added a lot to the team
And with Murphy injured you would of though Dan McKay would be getting more game time


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McKay assume got injured in warm up to Derby

[jeffers]

I said the same when Nisbet stepped over the free kick with the last kick of the game

It’s criminal that we need a striker so badly and he’s went to Dundee.

I’ll never understand it either, but we weren’t even linked with another striker which I find surprising. Well apart from the supposed punt we had on the player down south where the club were looking for far more than we were willing to spend. The only attack minded player we genuinely seemed to be after was McGrath, but he’s not a striker.

[GreenCastle]

Could we not sign a striker on a free ?

We definitely needed more options today.

[Smartie]

Griffiths only looks like a no-brainer because we failed so badly to bring anyone else in.

There are serious doubts over his physical state, mental state and suitability to play for our club and it’s in no way guaranteed that he’ll succeed in any way in Dundee.

[JimBHibees]

I think the fact JR declined to comment on him but then went on to heavily criticised our recruitment all but confirms it.

If he hadn’t he’d just say naw, it’s nonsense.

Most bizarre thing about that interview was that hertz can't McLaughlin trying to insinuate the penalty was in some way soft weird imo.

[Bridge hibs]

I said the same when Nisbet stepped over the free kick with the last kick of the game

It’s criminal that we need a striker so badly and he’s went to Dundee.Griffiths is an out of shape/conditioned waster who has ****ed up the privelage of playing his last years with a massive club. Same player *****ed continuous warnings from his paymasters to get back into shape but he acted the goat and ignored it. He is at Dundee for a reason, yeah can take a free kick, Im double his weight (debatable) and can take a free kick. The guy is a waster and thats the reason he is where he is. Lets focus on our own guys learning to take free kicks rather than wanking over a has been

[Real Emerald]

Griffiths only looks like a no-brainer because we failed so badly to bring anyone else in.

There are serious doubts over his physical state, mental state and suitability to play for our club and it’s in no way guaranteed that he’ll succeed in any way in Dundee.

We just need someone who is a natural striker that can back up or complement the few resources we have. Griffiths in poor condition is better than no one, he is deadly at free kicks too and has bags of top quality experience. He wasn’t a big punt as he was a short term loan, in our position what was the gamble, it was a no brainier., not hindsight.

[GreenCastle]

We just need someone who is a natural striker that can back up or complement the few resources we have. Griffiths in poor condition is better than no one, he is deadly at free kicks too and has bags of top quality experience. He wasn’t a big punt as he was a short term loan, in our position what was the gamble, it was a no brainier., not hindsight.

Freekick in the last minute an example today. Our set pieces have been pretty woeful this season. Even having Mallan gave us a chance at freekicks.

It’s been mentioned before but any player who knows they won’t be dropped is dangerous territory - no go-incidence Porto is playing better as we have signed a new CB.

Nisbet while he is important needs competition and we need another striker even before Doidge was injured. Scott being injured and not playing well isn’t helping.

[Real Emerald]

Griffiths is an out of shape/conditioned waster who has ****ed up the privelage of playing his last years with a massive club. Same player *****ed continuous warnings from his paymasters to get back into shape but he acted the goat and ignored it. He is at Dundee for a reason, yeah can take a free kick, Im double his weight (debatable) and can take a free kick. The guy is a waster and thats the reason he is where he is. Lets focus on our own guys learning to take free kicks rather than wanking over a has been

Well I know who I would rather bring on for the last 20 minutes, James Scott or Leigh Griffiths? We needed a decent temporary replacement for a striker, Griffiths had to be the first on the list.