Jack Ross

[bigwheel]

FWIW I think he’s one derby loss away from the knives being out. If he doesn’t want that to happen he needs to make sure we win the next derby.

Lose to Motherwell on the opening day of the season then the knives won’t be out, hysterical nonsense to suggest that’s the case.

I suspect you are right, but that mindset from fans is ridiculous…..any game can be won or lost. Fans should have a much wider view than a single derby game. He can’t “make sure” we win any game….


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[JimBHibees]

He got loads of praise for winning those games?

If you also think beating Aberdeen and Dundee Utd carries the same weighting as beating Hearts then you’re deliberately missing the point.

Aberdeen games were big games, he did well to win them and he deserves the credit for that. It’s not the same as beating a hearts or the old firm though, you, and everybody knows that. Even if the Aberdeen games were very important in terms of finishing 3rd.

Dundee United were absolutely ***** last season, again though, he deserves credit for getting the win, also again though, it’s not the same and won’t be remembered the same way as beating Hearts or the old firm and as such won’t be remembered the same way.

Nonsense to suggest the Dundee United semi wasn't a big name. United had also been very impressive hammering Aberdeen away in the previous round.

[Danderhall Hibs]

FWIW I think he’s one derby loss away from the knives being out. If he doesn’t want that to happen he needs to make sure we win the next derby.

Lose to Motherwell on the opening day of the season then the knives won’t be out, hysterical nonsense to suggest that’s the case.

It won’t be as vitriolic but there will be a Ross out thread on here if either happen.

[bingo70]

Nonsense to suggest the Dundee United semi wasn't a big name. United had also been very impressive hammering Aberdeen away in the previous round.

I never said that?

It was a big game, and Ross rightly got lots of credit for the win, I’m not saying otherwise.

I’m saying that as Dundee Utd were ***** last season (even if they did beat Aberdeen) it doesn’t carry the same weighting as beating Hearts or the Old Firm and won’t be remembered with the same fondness as beating those teams.

[bingo70]

It won’t be as vitriolic but there will be a Ross out thread on here if either happen.

Aye, you’ll probably start it so you can go radge at anybody commenting on it blowing any criticism way out of proportion again 😉

[Danderhall Hibs]

Aye, you’ll probably start it so you can go radge at anybody commenting on it blowing any criticism way out of proportion again 😉

I’m 100% petty enough to do that but also 100% confident I won’t have to.

[JimBHibees]

I never said that?

It was a big game, and Ross rightly got lots of credit for the win, I’m not saying otherwise.

I’m saying that as Dundee Utd were ***** last season (even if they did beat Aberdeen) it doesn’t carry the same weighting as beating Hearts or the Old Firm and won’t be remembered with the same fondness as beating those teams.

Ok so it was a big game but it wasn't really.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Ok so it was a big game but it wasn't really.

It comes across like that doesn’t it? Then “they” throw comments about “pretending not to know what a big game is”.

[bingo70]

Ok so it was a big game but it wasn't really.

Cmon Jim, you know exactly what it was.

It was a big game but that win combined with those Aberdeen wins won’t be enough to keep the wolves from the door if his performances in the traditionally bigger games doesn’t improve.

Not all big games mean the same to all fans.

[007]

I think Ross has done enough to get the extension. There are definitely signs of something being built. While the football is a bit more pragmatic and dull it feels a bit like the Stubbs era. Player signings are making sense and are looking more hit than miss and we appear to have some organisation to our play. He is professional and looks like he has the player group fully behind him.

No doubt we have underperformed in big games imo. Not them all but too many. I would say level par for the three semi finals, given the opponents, would have been two final appearances and level par for those would have been one bit of silverware. I am talking about the opponents in those games not the occasions of finals etc as nine times out of ten we would have to have played the Uglies.

I dearly hope he was building a base last year and a few key signings will give us a bit more spark. I'm not really looking forward to a team that plays best on the break although that can be very exciting. A third place finish and getting to the stage of the cups we should get to, based on the opposition we face, will be another good season. If we get such fantastic draws in the cups I really think we should win one but unlikely we will be so lucky again for a very long time.

I hope the crowds will make the fitba more entertaining as it was pretty dull last year and that wasn't all down to the players and management.

Agree with this.

I reckon JR's extension might help a little with getting transfer deals over the line. Prospective signings know he's got the backing of the Board and is unlikely to get the bullet early doors if there are a couple of bad results. None of your "We'll give Cathro the League Cup and see how he goes" nonsense from that lot then sacking him a few days before the league even starts.

[Inconsequential]

Because it's the close season.

As someone else said, he's always only one game away from being slaughtered by the usual suspects.

People need to step back and look at the bigger picture. Thus.

[matty_f]

He has won some but not nearly enough.

It's a fair criticism, especially when you take into consideration his time at Sunderland.

His Sunderland time shouldn’t come into it, completely different circumstances.

[Since452]

We got beat from St.Johnstone twice … if you class that as very good then fair enough

Rangers lost to them in the cup at Ibrox despite going unbeaten in the league and going far in Europe. St Johnstone were no mugs last season in one off cup games. Two trophies prove that.

[Andy74]

His Sunderland time shouldn’t come into it, completely different circumstances.

They were also worse before he arrived and worse again when he left so no idea what that even means.

[bingo70]

They were also worse before he arrived and worse again when he left so no idea what that even means.

You’re right, it shouldn’t and doesn’t really matter.

I think it’s just a thing as we were warned when he joined his record in big games was poor. When that follows on to us and the same criticism is labelled at him, it’s going to come up again.

Might not be right but I think it’s understandable.

[Allez Hibs]

Jack Ross needs to do better in big games this season. That's a fact.

[Smartie]

His Sunderland time shouldn’t come into it, completely different circumstances.


They were also worse before he arrived and worse again when he left so no idea what that even means.


You’re right, it shouldn’t and doesn’t really matter.

I think it’s just a thing as we were warned when he joined his record in big games was poor. When that follows on to us and the same criticism is labelled at him, it’s going to come up again.

Might not be right but I think it’s understandable.

Jack Ross has way, way more in the plus column than in the minus column at Hibs. He's also been with us short enough time and overseen enough of an improvement that "Ross out" shouldn't really be part of any conversation.

But the "big game record" is something in his minus column. It is something that he needs find a way to improve and I'd imagine it will irritate even him.

It's my biggest doubt about him - are we ever going to actually getting anything over the line with him or are we always going to "nearly" win things, ie win nothing? His club before us - he took a club to Wembley twice against clubs with much less resources than his team and failed to do the business, once in a cup final and once in a playoff. His track record when the big stuff is on the line over the past few years is pretty hopeless. I think it is of relevance when it comes to discussing what faith we might have in him reaching our expectations.

In every other regard I'm happy with him. Most of all I think he's improved us - which incidentally, he also did at Sunderland, somewhere where some pretty big names have gone and failed in different ways to do anywhere near as well as he did there.

[Since452]

They were also worse before he arrived and worse again when he left so no idea what that even means.

The only time Sunderland have looked relatively stable was when Ross was there. He's taken St Mirren from the brink of relegation to league one to winning the Championship, he's taken Hibs from very possible relegation to a very rare 3rd place for the club and a cup final, and he took a basket case Sunderland to the playoff final despite having the rug pulled from under him. He didn't lose many games there. Looking back they must realise they made a mistake getting rid. I really don't know who would do a better job at Hibs. We could have a Stephen Glass who is the same age as Ross and done the square root of **** all in football management. We've been crying out for a bit of managerial stability at this club for as long as I can remember. Probably since Alex Miller. Far too many managers have come and gone. It's rediculous.

[Callum_62]

Jack Ross needs to do better in big games this season. That's a fact.The easiest way to do that is lose some of the 'smaller' games

[emoji108]

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[ancient hibee]

P
Jack Ross has way, way more in the plus column than in the minus column at Hibs. He's also been with us short enough time and overseen enough of an improvement that "Ross out" shouldn't really be part of any conversation.

But the "big game record" is something in his minus column. It is something that he needs find a way to improve and I'd imagine it will irritate even him.

It's my biggest doubt about him - are we ever going to actually getting anything over the line with him or are we always going to "nearly" win things, ie win nothing? His club before us - he took a club to Wembley twice against clubs with much less resources than his team and failed to do the business, once in a cup final and once in a playoff. His track record when the big stuff is on the line over the past few years is pretty hopeless. I think it is of relevance when it comes to discussing what faith we might have in him reaching our expectations.

In every other regard I'm happy with him. Most of all I think he's improved us - which incidentally, he also did at Sunderland, somewhere where some pretty big names have gone and failed in different ways to do anywhere near as well as he did there.
So given our trophy record over nearly 70 years he’s on par with most Hibs managers?

[Tambo]

We definitely could do a lot worse than Ross. Yes the football is not great at times but definitely seen an improvement in the defence side of things.

Big season ahead though.

[hibsbollah]

Is anyone just happy for the season to be starting and hoping for the best?

#happyclappingwarning

[Smartie]

P
So given our trophy record over nearly 70 years he’s on par with most Hibs managers?

Is it all that unreasonable to hope to win something though, if not necessarily expect it?

Should the height of our expectations under Ross be to win f all as that's what we've historically done? Ross is currently set up to be backed better than most Hibs managers, so expectations might be that bit higher.

If Callum Davidson can lead St Johnstone to 2 trophies in a few months, I'd like to think Hibs should be capable of winning one every 10 years or so.

Winning trophies doesn't happen if you win 1 in every 4 games at Hampden against weaker opposition, or never beating Rangers or Celtic.

He needs to improve, I hope he manages to do so and believe he's earned the right to improve his record.

I find it bizarre that folk wouldn't aspire to a big game record better than Jack Ross has so far.

[Peevemor]

Jack Ross needs to do better in big games this season. That's a fact.This has to be a wind up.

[Allez Hibs]

A few will find the Top League point % stat list of Hibs Managers interesting indeed.

[lord bunberry]

This has to be a wind up.
Sadly it’s not. Every time we lose there’s a fair number of people who want him binned. There’s no doubting he’s lost a number of pivotal games, and those games are the ones that many people will judge a manager on. For me we’re on the cusp of something special with Ross, he’s steered us through a hugely difficult time and delivered our best league position in 16 years. The cups were bitterly disappointing, but we’ve been there and done that for as long as I’ve been a hibs fan. Any previous hibs manager in my lifetime that’s finished 3rd has been poached by another club shortly after, but I feel that Ross wants to stay and finish the job he’s started.

[Wilson]

Is anyone just happy for the season to be starting and hoping for the best?

#happyclappingwarning

Absolutely.

[Bangkok Hibby]

Sadly it’s not. Every time we lose there’s a fair number of people who want him binned. There’s no doubting he’s lost a number of pivotal games, and those games are the ones that many people will judge a manager on. For me we’re on the cusp of something special with Ross, he’s steered us through a hugely difficult time and delivered our best league position in 16 years. The cups were bitterly disappointing, but we’ve been there and done that for as long as I’ve been a hibs fan. Any previous hibs manager in my lifetime that’s finished 3rd has been poached by another club shortly after, but I feel that Ross wants to stay and finish the job he’s started.

Totally agree. The Ron Gordon/Jack Ross combination makes for exciting times ahead I'm convinced.

[Steve20]

With the way he has us play, we probably will challenge for top 4 again. But we'll never win a trophy with him as manager. If you're happy with that because we haven't won much, so 3rd place is your ambition, then he's the man for the job.

If you want exciting football, with the chance of a trophy then it's someone else needed as manager. I'm not saying bin Jack Ross (too early for that), but he needs to change his way of setting us up when it comes to when it matters. People can mock all they want when it's pointed out he doesn't do well in big games, but it's true. We've never beat either of the Old Firm, we were embarrassing in three games at Hampden in one season and his record against a bottom of the league/championship Hearts team is 1 win and 2 defeats in 3 games. That's awful.

[Callum_62]

With the way he has us play, we probably will challenge for top 4 again. But we'll never win a trophy with him as manager. If you're happy with that because we haven't won much, so 3rd place is your ambition, then he's the man for the job.

If you want exciting football, with the chance of a trophy then it's someone else needed as manager. I'm not saying bin Jack Ross (too early for that), but he needs to change his way of setting us up when it comes to when it matters. People can mock all they want when it's pointed out he doesn't do well in big games, but it's true. We've never beat either of the Old Firm, we were embarrassing in three games at Hampden in one season and his record against a bottom of the league/championship Hearts team is 1 win and 2 defeats in 3 games. That's awful.

I don't understand how you can say we will challenge for top 4 but zero chance of winning anything

We've won stuff when we have been a far worse team than a top 4 side

I agree in that we had a few great opportunities last Season that were missed, but Jack Ross and the team helped us get they opportunities in the first place and don't forget the place we started from when he came in

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[Peevemor]

I don't understand how you can say we will challenge for top 4 but zero chance of winning anything

We've won stuff when we have been a far worse team than a top 4 side

I agree in that we had a few great opportunities last Season that were missed, but Jack Ross and the team helped us get they opportunities in the first place and don't forget the place we started from when he came in

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Yep - out of 3 cup competitions so far he's managed us to 2 semis & a final, but some folk have already made up their minds.

[Stonewall]

Is anyone just happy for the season to be starting and hoping for the best?

#happyclappingwarning

Me.

[hibbydog]

Is it all that unreasonable to hope to win something though, if not necessarily expect it?

Should the height of our expectations under Ross be to win f all as that's what we've historically done? Ross is currently set up to be backed better than most Hibs managers, so expectations might be that bit higher.

If Callum Davidson can lead St Johnstone to 2 trophies in a few months, I'd like to think Hibs should be capable of winning one every 10 years or so.

Winning trophies doesn't happen if you win 1 in every 4 games at Hampden against weaker opposition, or never beating Rangers or Celtic.

He needs to improve, I hope he manages to do so and believe he's earned the right to improve his record.

I find it bizarre that folk wouldn't aspire to a big game record better than Jack Ross has so far.

^ This.

Ross has earned the time to try and improve his awful record in big games.

I’d also add that big game disappointments are a massive frustration for me as a Hibs fan. Our record at Hampden speaks for itself sadly. I’m completely fed up with it.

It’s high time we sorted this out.

[Hibernian Verse]

If you want exciting football, with the chance of a trophy then it's someone else needed as manager.

Ah yes, much like double winning St Johnstone and their free-flowing, attractive, goal-peppering football.

[Percy Vere]

Is it all that unreasonable to hope to win something though, if not necessarily expect it?

Should the height of our expectations under Ross be to win f all as that's what we've historically done? Ross is currently set up to be backed better than most Hibs managers, so expectations might be that bit higher.

If Callum Davidson can lead St Johnstone to 2 trophies in a few months, I'd like to think Hibs should be capable of winning one every 10 years or so.

Winning trophies doesn't happen if you win 1 in every 4 games at Hampden against weaker opposition, or never beating Rangers or Celtic.

He needs to improve, I hope he manages to do so and believe he's earned the right to improve his record.

I find it bizarre that folk wouldn't aspire to a big game record better than Jack Ross has so far.

As we are in the middle of a 1 trophy in 10 years period (as per your suggestion), JR has another four seasons to pull in another success.
So get off his back and let’s see where it goes this season.
Also some folk who have maybe followed Hibs longer than you are realistic about what we can and can’t achieve given our size and financial restrictions.
It’s not that we don’t hope for great things, we eternally do, but we don’t get on managers and players backs at every opportunity when we don’t bring home a cup every year.
If you want constant cups and league success mibbe you’re following the wrong team. Until we get a big money backer it will ever be thus. And I for one love supporting this team on this basis.

[Percy Vere]

Yep - out of 3 cup competitions so far he's managed us to 2 semis & a final, but some folk have already made up their minds.

I know it’s awful isn’t it.
And third in the league, what’s he trying to do!
Let’s give him a season or two to turn over some of the big games into success. Even then there will be moaners.
Not the right brand of football, we should’ve won that final by more goals bla bla bla. I’m sick of the smart arse fans who throw mud at the team they support every given opportunity.
And yeah I’m prepared for you lot moaning about me sticking up for the manager and team.

[Allez Hibs]

Yep - out of 3 cup competitions so far he's managed us to 2 semis & a final, but some folk have already made up their minds.

Remind me how many top league sides we beat on the way to those semi finals and final?

[CentreLine]

It's to show sarcasm.

Good god! Is that actually deliberate? We’ll good luck to the younger generation with the way language is going.

[MikeyS]

Remind me how many top league sides we beat on the way to those semi finals and final?

Do those games not count as much if the opposition is lower in the league than us?? Maybe we should as the SFA to pick another ball out the bowl if we keep getting lower league sides 🤔

[CentreLine]

A few will find the Top League point % stat list of Hibs Managers interesting indeed.

Wow that is a real eye opener. Some not so surprising of course but I always thought Willie McFarlane got a bad deal and was convinced we were going places under him. Didn’t realise just how well he was doing until you put up this comparison.
And Jack Ross right up there alongside Eddie Turnbull, mind you, ET’s later games will have pulled him down the table a bit.

[Peevemor]

Remind me how many top league sides we beat on the way to those semi finals and final?

So what? Did Jack Ross make the draws?

Dunfermline knocked us out the league cup 3-0 under Tony Mowbray (golden generation et al) and then in the semi of the SC a year later under John Collins (now that was a crap performance).

Motherwell knocked us out the LC 4-2 at ER the season after, still under Collins.

Falkirk beat us 1-0 in the SC semi under Stubbs in 2015.

Need I go on or are you going to stop with the negative cherry picking?

[Fergus52]

A few will find the Top League point % stat list of Hibs Managers interesting indeed.

That doesn't seem right to me, do you have the source?

I'd have thought Lennon would have been lower after all the points we dropped in his second season in the top flight.

If you go on win% only Jock Stein, Dan McMichael, Alan Stubbs, Hugh Shaw and Bob Shankly are ahead of Ross in our entire history.

[Caversham Green]

Yep - out of 3 cup competitions so far he's managed us to 2 semis & a final, but some folk have already made up their minds.

We were also realistically a missed penalty away from winning one of those semis and beating Hearts at the same time, and few would have cared how we played if that had happened. Fine Margins indeed.

It wasn't Jack Ross that missed that penalty but he's still seen as the one who lost the game.

[oneone73]

That doesn't seem right to me, do you have the source?

I'd have thought Lennon would have been lower after all the points we dropped in his second season in the top flight.

If you go on win% only Jock Stein, Dan McMichael, Alan Stubbs, Hugh Shaw and Bob Shankly are ahead of Ross in our entire history.

It's from iHibs, an impeccable source. First posted on the Bounce.

[Heisenberg]

That doesn't seem right to me, do you have the source?

I'd have thought Lennon would have been lower after all the points we dropped in his second season in the top flight.

If you go on win% only Jock Stein, Dan McMichael, Alan Stubbs, Hugh Shaw and Bob Shankly are ahead of Ross in our entire history.

Didn’t realise Ross was that good statistically up against previous managers. Hopefully here for many years to come.

[ahibby]

Ah yes, much like double winning St Johnstone and their free-flowing, attractive, goal-peppering football.

But JR fans are depending on stats to bolster their opinion of him. Yet you dont rate the stat of winning both cups in the same season, on a smaller budget than JR had at his disposal.

[Caversham Green]

Wow that is a real eye opener. Some not so surprising of course but I always thought Willie McFarlane got a bad deal and was convinced we were going places under him. Didn’t realise just how well he was doing until you put up this comparison.
And Jack Ross right up there alongside Eddie Turnbull, mind you, ET’s later games will have pulled him down the table a bit.

Eight points from the first four games this season and he'll have matched Saint Lenny's record for the same number of games.

[Peevemor]

I don't have the energy for this. :rolleyes:

[Fergus52]

It's from iHibs, an impeccable source. First posted on the Bounce.

Fair enough,

I guess Lennon having better points per game in the league, and Ross having a much higher win % in all competitions shows how much of a better cup manager Jack Ross is...

[jacomo]

Yep - out of 3 cup competitions so far he's managed us to 2 semis & a final, but some folk have already made up their minds.


No, some folk have a different opinion to you.

This board would be a better place if people like you could understand and respect that basic point.

[Peevemor]

No, some folk have a different opinion to you.

This board would be a better place if people like you could understand and respect that basic point.

Eh? What i said has nothing to do with opinions.

This board would be a better place if people could accept facts.

[Allez Hibs]

Eh? What i said has nothing to do with opinions.

This board would be a better place if people could accept facts.

Think quite a few have accepted we returned zero trophies from the three golden opportunities last season and that's where the scepticism lies regarding the manager in big games.

[Heisenberg]

But JR fans are depending on stats to bolster their opinion of him. Yet you dont rate the stat of winning both cups in the same season, on a smaller budget than JR had at his disposal.

The poster quoted this

“If you want exciting football, with the chance of a trophy then it's someone else needed as manager.”

St Johnstone won two trophies last season playing 11 behind the ball counter attacking football most of the time. Nothing exciting about that but it got the job done for them in a magnificent way. Fair play to them. I don’t see their achievements being downplayed at all.

I don’t see why we’d need to change manager to have the chance to win a trophy. We got into good positions to do so last season and fell short, here’s hoping we go one better next season. No need to change the manager to get back to Hampden.

[Peevemor]

Think quite a few have accepted we returned zero trophies from the three golden opportunities last season and that's where the scepticism lies regarding the manager in big games.

Big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games... :blah::blah::blah::blah::blah::blah::blah:

[S4uzee]

Big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games... :blah::blah::blah::blah::blah::blah::blah:

Yup … he failed in 3 big games against weaker opposition.

[jacomo]

The poster quoted this

“If you want exciting football, with the chance of a trophy then it's someone else needed as manager.”

St Johnstone won two trophies last season playing 11 behind the ball counter attacking football most of the time. Nothing exciting about that but it got the job done for them in a magnificent way. Fair play to them. I don’t see their achievements being downplayed at all.

I don’t see why we’d need to change manager to have the chance to win a trophy. We got into good positions to do so last season and fell short, here’s hoping we go one better next season. No need to change the manager to get back to Hampden.


I get that.

There is no doubt that Jack Ross is highly competent at negotiating the regular grind of Scottish league football.

The question mark is over his ability to get the team up for the biggest games.

They say the best managers (indeed the best leaders in any field) can inspire their team to perform beyond their capability. I’m not sure we have that.

[jacomo]

Big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games... :blah::blah::blah::blah::blah::blah::blah:


This is just trolling. Take a day off (preferably longer).

[Peevemor]

This is just trolling. Take a day off (preferably longer).

So it's OK for other people to mention "big games" too many times to count but not me?

[Allez Hibs]

Big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games, big games... :blah::blah::blah::blah::blah::blah::blah:

Yes, Jack Ross isn't very good in them.

[The Modfather]

I wish posters would put each other on ignore rather than feel duty bound, and daresay enjoy the incessant back and forths, to reply to each and every post from each other. Would make it a more enjoyable and constructive board in general.

We’re now into the downhill car crash portion of the thread

[Allez Hibs]

I wish posters would put each other on ignore rather than feel duty bound, and daresay enjoy the incessant back and forths, to reply to each and every post from each other. Would make it a more enjoyable and constructive board in general.

We’re now into the downhill car crash portion of the thread

It's a fans forum. There shouldn't be a need for an ignore button. You only see half the debate.

[ahibby]

The poster quoted this

“If you want exciting football, with the chance of a trophy then it's someone else needed as manager.”

St Johnstone won two trophies last season playing 11 behind the ball counter attacking football most of the time. Nothing exciting about that but it got the job done for them in a magnificent way. Fair play to them. I don’t see their achievements being downplayed at all.

I don’t see why we’d need to change manager to have the chance to win a trophy. We got into good positions to do so last season and fell short, here’s hoping we go one better next season. No need to change the manager to get back to Hampden.

I am not suggesting we need to change manager. I onky got involved in this, this time because if one poster who had a needless dig at those of us who are not sure, that JR has what it takes to win a trophy nor entertain us in home games. I would rather Hibs help and support him to get over that apparent obstacle.

[S4uzee]

I wish posters would put each other on ignore rather than feel duty bound, and daresay enjoy the incessant back and forths, to reply to each and every post from each other. Would make it a more enjoyable and constructive board in general.

We’re now into the downhill car crash portion of the thread

A bit childish putting posters on ignore. It’s good to see everyone’s opinion whether you agree with it or not IMO

[bingo70]

So it's OK for other people to mention "big games" too many times to count but not me?

People are bringing it up in the context of the debate.

You might not like other peoples opinions and that’s fine but they’re still allowed them.

FWIW I would rather read someone’s opinion that I disagreed with and debate it than someone such as yourself who will just take the club line on everything without ever actually giving your own opinion. Anybody who dares disagree with something the club says or does you’ll hound them trying to make them look like they’ve got some agenda against the club.

The performances in the big games merits discussion at least and the people that have posted about it have backed up their concerns. I was disagreeing with Danderhall Hibs about it last night and that’s absolutely fine, that’s what should happen from time to time.

Your post above is just ridiculous though and I completely agree with the person who called it out as trolling.

[MWHIBBIES]

I wish posters would put each other on ignore rather than feel duty bound, and daresay enjoy the incessant back and forths, to reply to each and every post from each other. Would make it a more enjoyable and constructive board in general.

We’re now into the downhill car crash portion of the thread

I don't think just ignoring anyone who disagrees with your opinion is good at all. The board should encourage debates.

[jacomo]

So it's OK for other people to mention "big games" too many times to count but not me?


Everyone should reflect on whether their behaviour is negatively impacting the discourse on Hibs.net, you very much included. Imo of course.

[The Modfather]

I don't think just ignoring anyone who disagrees with your opinion is good at all. The board should encourage debates.

I agree. However there’s a handful of posters who seem to follow each other around despite the fact they don’t appear to have much interest in any meaningful debate. Those are the posters who would be best putting each other on ignore IMO, but they appear to actively enjoy the groundhog style entrenched back and forths. With the rest of the board having constructive debates around them.

I post less, which isn’t a loss to anyone, as a direct result of those handful of posters dominating most threads.

[Peevemor]

Everyone should reflect on whether their behaviour is negatively impacting the discourse on Hibs.net, you very much included. Imo of course.

So you're opinion counts for more than mine?

Myself and plenty others are sick to the back teeth of the "big game" line being churned out over and over again.

We all want to win derbies, semi finals & cups. but to be credible there has to be some logic in what's considered a big game or not - suiting one's argument isn't a valid criterion.

[Peevemor]

People are bringing it up in the context of the debate.

Time and time and time again.


You might not like other peoples opinions and that’s fine but they’re still allowed them.

Correct - and others have the right to disagree


FWIW I would rather read someone’s opinion that I disagreed with and debate it than someone such as yourself who will just take the club line on everything without ever actually giving your own opinion. Anybody who dares disagree with something the club says or does you’ll hound them trying to make them look like they’ve got some agenda against the club.

That is absolute nonsense. However if I disagree with something the club does I don't immediately jump into OTT superlative mode and repeat myself ad infinitum.


The performances in the big games merits discussion at least and the people that have posted about it have backed up their concerns. I was disagreeing with Danderhall Hibs about it last night and that’s absolutely fine, that’s what should happen from time to time.

Good debate is fine. Churning out the same thing over and over again while ignoring facts isn't good debate.


Your post above is just ridiculous though and I completely agree with the person who called it out as trolling.

My post was deliberately ridiculous but I don't accept that it's trolling. I was illustrating a point.

[Allez Hibs]

Time and time and time again.



Correct - and others have the right to disagree



That is absolute nonsense. However if I disagree with something the club does I don't immediately jump into OTT superlative mode and repeat myself ad infinitum.



Good debate is fine. Churning out the same thing over and over again while ignoring facts isn't good debate.



My post was deliberately ridiculous but I don't accept that it's trolling. I was illustrating a point.

What facts are people ignoring when questioning Jack Ross in Big Games?

[jacomo]

So you're opinion counts for more than mine?

Myself and plenty others are sick to the back teeth of the "big game" line being churned out over and over again.

We all want to win derbies, semi finals & cups. but to be credible there has to be some logic in what's considered a big game or not - suiting one's argument isn't a valid criterion.


:rolleyes:

Like I said above, take some time off. Your argumentative, self-pitying pish is just awful.

[Peevemor]

:rolleyes:

Like I said above, take some time off. Your argumentative, self-pitying pish is just awful.

Again, in your opinon.

It's funny, but I've noticed more and more that I give my opinions but people feel free to criticise me personally as opposed to the points I'm making.

Maybe what you take for self-pity is simply me defending myself?

[Since452]

Ross is in the bizarre situation of being a victim of taking Hibs to the latter stages of cups all the time. Three cup competitions, three semis at least. Because he hasn't won the competitions he doesn't do big games? He's already got a better cup record than Lennon did and Lennon took over one of the best Hibs sides in living memory whereas Ross took over a car crash. He's won at Tynecastle, he's won at Pittodrie, he's thumped Aberdeen at home, he's won at Hampden and his team have been very unlucky against the old firm. I really think some folks minds are made up about Ross unfortunately.

[Allez Hibs]

Ross is in the bizarre situation of being a victim of taking Hibs to the latter stages of cups all the time. Three cup competitions, three semis at least. Because he hasn't won the competitions he doesn't do big games? He's already got a better cup record than Lennon did and Lennon took over one of the best Hibs sides in living memory whereas Ross took over a car crash. He's won at Tynecastle, he's won at Pittodrie, he's thumped Aberdeen at home, he's won at Hampden and his team have been very unlucky against the old firm. I really think some folks minds are made up about Ross unfortunately.

His Cup Record, we should have been in the Semi Finals every time given the draws we had is my point.

19/20 Scottish Cup
Dundee United
BSC Glasgow
Inverness
Hearts

League Cup 20/21 Knockout
Dundee
Alloa
St Johnstone

20/21 Scottish Cup
Queen of the South
Stranraer
Motherwell
Dundee United
St Johnstone

[ahibby]

:rolleyes:

Like I said above, take some time off. Your argumentative, self-pitying pish is just awful.

Its clear that some only want to attack posters opinion or worse the poster, I think the suggestion to ignore referred to them. Thats not a bad suggestion imo. We all know that JR isnt the worst we have had and maybe one of the better ones but we also appreciate he needs to improve on aspects of us,. It appears we get shot down for having the audacity to say there are asoects he should improve on. There is definitely instigating and trolling going on but its a public forum so to be expected.

[jacomo]

Again, in your opinon.

It's funny, but I've noticed more and more that I give my opinions but people feel free to criticise me personally as opposed to the points I'm making.

Maybe what you take for self-pitying is simply me defending myself?


Oh please.

Sometime ago I had an argument with you on here - I have no problem with robust debate, but you then descended into personal abuse. I am still due an apology for that.

I don’t know you IRL but my opinion of you based on your persona on here is not favourable. I am not the only one pointing to your behaviour… I think you should reflect on that.

I’m not engaging with you anymore because it seems pointless. Your self-pitying claims of victim hood are particularly wearing.

[Callum_62]

So, anyone looking forward to the big game tomorrow?

[emoji3]

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[Peevemor]

Oh please.

Sometime ago I had an argument with you on here - I have no problem with robust debate, but you then descended into personal abuse. I am still due an apology for that.

I don’t know you IRL but my opinion of you based on your persona on here is not favourable. I am not the only one pointing to your behaviour… I think you should reflect on that.

I’m not engaging with you anymore because it seems pointless. Your self-pitying claims of victim hood are particularly wearing.

Nice.

Good to see that we're not getting personal.

[ahibby]

His Cup Record, we should have been in the Semi Finals every time given the draws we had is my point.

19/20 Scottish Cup
Dundee United
BSC Glasgow
Inverness
Hearts

League Cup 20/21 Knockout
Dundee
Alloa
St Johnstone

20/21 Scottish Cup
Queen of the South
Stranraer
Motherwell
Dundee United
St Johnstone

Nothing unwinnable in any of those ties and we won seventy five per cent of them give or take the odd percentage.

[Northernhibee]

Yes, Jack Ross isn't very good in them.

Apart from the ones that he is, but some posters seem to have selective memory gaps for those ones.

[ahibby]

Oh please.

Sometime ago I had an argument with you on here - I have no problem with robust debate, but you then descended into personal abuse. I am still due an apology for that.

I don’t know you IRL but my opinion of you based on your persona on here is not favourable. I am not the only one pointing to your behaviour… I think you should reflect on that.

I’m not engaging with you anymore because it seems pointless. Your self-pitying claims of victim hood are particularly wearing.

I feel your pain and its clear its in your interest to just let this one go.

[Peevemor]

I feel your pain and its clear its in your interest to just let this one go.

Wow!

He started on me! :rotflmao:

[madhatter]

So you're opinion counts for more than mine?

Myself and plenty others are sick to the back teeth of the "big game" line being churned out over and over again.

We all want to win derbies, semi finals & cups. but to be credible there has to be some logic in what's considered a big game or not - suiting one's argument isn't a valid criterion.

Bizarrely this surely means you view your opinion as superior/more important than others, especially when they don't match your own logic? Your "sick to the back teeth" of their opinions.

Starting a post with a question about equality of opinions to then follow up with a sentence saying your fed up with others voicing their opinions about "big games" is quite humorous.

Think your post shows the problem with humanity at the moment. I'm a culprit as well. Blinkered to our own reality and others not matching that must be ridiculed and/or silenced. Voice our opinions until the end of time but when other people have a common theme that we don't like they are whiny and need to shut up.

[ahibby]

So, anyone looking forward to the big game tomorrow?

[emoji3]

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

Haha lol

[matty_f]

Ross is in the bizarre situation of being a victim of taking Hibs to the latter stages of cups all the time. Three cup competitions, three semis at least. Because he hasn't won the competitions he doesn't do big games? He's already got a better cup record than Lennon did and Lennon took over one of the best Hibs sides in living memory whereas Ross took over a car crash. He's won at Tynecastle, he's won at Pittodrie, he's thumped Aberdeen at home, he's won at Hampden and his team have been very unlucky against the old firm. I really think some folks minds are made up about Ross unfortunately.
Ross also had to do it in COVID times, where he’s had to cut back the squad (often overlooked because we spent money, but the squad (iirc) cost less than the season before and was heavily reduced in numbers), without the support staff that Hibs would rely on at times due to COVID related redundancies.
He lost one of our best creative players for a full season, and others for large parts of the season.

Yet despite that, he took us to Hampden 4 times, finished third, brought on players like Nisbet , who featured in every Scotland game at the Euros, and Doig, who would have rodents Scotland at his age group this summer but for injury.

My honest opinion is that Jack Ross is getting held to a far, far higher standard than ANY other Hibs Manager in my lifetime.

He’s been brilliant for us. We were heading the way Hearts went when he took over. PPG stopped us finishing sixth that season, which would have been a remarkable turnaround, and in the following season despite everything listed above, we finished third for the first time in sixteen years.

I actually despair that a section of the support will hound out one of the best managers we’ve ever had because of some ridiculous notion about big games being more important than everything else that is achieved.

Saying we will never win a cup is nonsense, we might not win one, but we’ve come closer than any other club bar St Johnstone to the two cups on offer, so I’d say on that record there’s a pretty good chance we’ll go further at some point.

[WhileTheChief..]

So it's OK for other people to mention "big games" too many times to count but not me?

Take a break, you just said you've no energy!

Are you going to spend the whole season moaning about the moaners again? Maybe start your own thread and keep it all in there?

People have different views but you keep trying to tell everyone they are wrong Stop it. It's good to read different opinions.

[Allez Hibs]

Apart from the ones that he is, but some posters seem to have selective memory gaps for those ones.

Jack Ross in league games v Aberdeen Celtic Hearts Rangers

Played 19
Won 4
Drawn 4
Lost 11

Cup Semi Finals
Played 3
Won 1
Lost 2

Finals
Played 1
Lost 1

Overall
Played 23
Won 5 - 21.7%
Drawn 4 - 17. 4%
Lost 14 - 60.9%

https://fbref.com/en/squads/f3aacc58/Hibernian-Stats

[Hibernia&Alba]

I'm happy he's staying on. We have made good progress, and although a more entertaining style would be welcome, perhaps that will come in time. A manager can't do everything at once. IMHO, he's earned a longer contract.

[Peevemor]

Take a break, you just said you've no energy!

Are you going to spend the whole season moaning about the moaners again? Maybe start your own thread and keep it all in there?

People have different views but you keep trying to tell everyone they are wrong Stop it. It's good to read different opinions.

And another one. :rolleyes:

[Peevemor]

Bizarrely this surely means you view your opinion as superior/more important than others, especially when they don't match your own logic? Your "sick to the back teeth" of their opinions.

Starting a post with a question about equality of opinions to then follow up with a sentence saying your fed up with others voicing their opinions about "big games" is quite humorous.

Think your post shows the problem with humanity at the moment. I'm a culprit as well. Blinkered to our own reality and others not matching that must be ridiculed and/or silenced. Voice our opinions until the end of time but when other people have a common theme that we don't like they are whiny and need to shut up.

I understand what your saying, but for me the big game thing isn't an opinion - it's fact. The fact is that JR has had mixed results in big games and a bad result in the biggest, but to say he always fails in big games is incorrect - nothing to do with opinion.

[Allez Hibs]

I understand what your saying, but for me the big game thing isn't an opinion - it's fact. The fact is that JR has had mixed results in big games and a bad result in the biggest, but to say he always fails in big games is incorrect - nothing to do with opinion.

He loses 61% of them.

[Callum_62]

Jack Ross in league games v Aberdeen Celtic Hearts Rangers

Played 19
Won 4
Drawn 4
Lost 11

Cup Semi Finals
Played 3
Won 1
Lost 2

Finals
Played 1
Lost 1

Overall
Played 23
Won 5 - 21.7%
Drawn 4 - 17. 4%
Lost 14 - 60.9%

https://fbref.com/en/squads/f3aacc58/Hibernian-StatsSo in the league he gets something 42 percent of the time

How does that compare to previous managers?

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[Since452]

Ross also had to do it in COVID times, where he’s had to cut back the squad (often overlooked because we spent money, but the squad (iirc) cost less than the season before and was heavily reduced in numbers), without the support staff that Hibs would rely on at times due to COVID related redundancies.
He lost one of our best creative players for a full season, and others for large parts of the season.

Yet despite that, he took us to Hampden 4 times, finished third, brought on players like Nisbet , who featured in every Scotland game at the Euros, and Doig, who would have rodents Scotland at his age group this summer but for injury.

My honest opinion is that Jack Ross is getting held to a far, far higher standard than ANY other Hibs Manager in my lifetime.

He’s been brilliant for us. We were heading the way Hearts went when he took over. PPG stopped us finishing sixth that season, which would have been a remarkable turnaround, and in the following season despite everything listed above, we finished third for the first time in sixteen years.

I actually despair that a section of the support will hound out one of the best managers we’ve ever had because of some ridiculous notion about big games being more important than everything else that is achieved.

Saying we will never win a cup is nonsense, we might not win one, but we’ve come closer than any other club bar St Johnstone to the two cups on offer, so I’d say on that record there’s a pretty good chance we’ll go further at some point.

Absolute agree. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Brightside]

A bit childish putting posters on ignore. It’s good to see everyone’s opinion whether you agree with it or not IMO

Its not childish at all. The bickering is childish. Just put those people on ignore and its much easier and enjoyable to read.

[Since452]

I really don't think we've been that bad to watch either. We score plenty goals and create plenty chances. Our Achilles heel has been defending dead balls and crosses. That needs sorted. We have the makings of a right good side if we aren't one already.

[Mr. Wonderful]

Jack Ross in league games v Aberdeen Celtic Hearts Rangers

Played 19
Won 4
Drawn 4
Lost 11

Cup Semi Finals
Played 3
Won 1
Lost 2

Finals
Played 1
Lost 1

Overall
Played 23
Won 5 - 21.7%
Drawn 4 - 17. 4%
Lost 14 - 60.9%

https://fbref.com/en/squads/f3aacc58/Hibernian-Stats

You can't just chuck in a stat like that without also adding in some factors. The huns went the whole season unbeaten and scudded just about everyone, for instance.

Or that JR took over from the shambles of Heck in his first half season.

[JeMeSouviens]

He loses 61% of them.

When you take into account the 10x wage difference, Hibs should by rights always lose to Celtc and Sevco. What does it look like if you remove games against them?

[lord bunberry]

Ross also had to do it in COVID times, where he’s had to cut back the squad (often overlooked because we spent money, but the squad (iirc) cost less than the season before and was heavily reduced in numbers), without the support staff that Hibs would rely on at times due to COVID related redundancies.
He lost one of our best creative players for a full season, and others for large parts of the season.

Yet despite that, he took us to Hampden 4 times, finished third, brought on players like Nisbet , who featured in every Scotland game at the Euros, and Doig, who would have rodents Scotland at his age group this summer but for injury.

My honest opinion is that Jack Ross is getting held to a far, far higher standard than ANY other Hibs Manager in my lifetime.

He’s been brilliant for us. We were heading the way Hearts went when he took over. PPG stopped us finishing sixth that season, which would have been a remarkable turnaround, and in the following season despite everything listed above, we finished third for the first time in sixteen years.

I actually despair that a section of the support will hound out one of the best managers we’ve ever had because of some ridiculous notion about big games being more important than everything else that is achieved.

Saying we will never win a cup is nonsense, we might not win one, but we’ve come closer than any other club bar St Johnstone to the two cups on offer, so I’d say on that record there’s a pretty good chance we’ll go further at some point.
Are you calling him a rat? :greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

I really don't think we've been that bad to watch either. We score plenty goals and create plenty chances. Our Achilles heel has been defending dead balls and crosses. That needs sorted. We have the makings of a right good side if we aren't one already.

I think partly it's because we only saw the games on telly last year and there was so much Eng Prem and European footy on. Scottish football is obviously a much, much poorer standard than we're used to on telly but I don't think it seems as bad irl.

[Scouse Hibee]

Remind me how many top league sides we beat on the way to those semi finals and final?

Oh please stop it. Your negativity and nit picking is tiresome, you play who you are drawn against in any cup competition it does not diminish the success if you win the trophy.

[Since452]

I think partly it's because we only saw the games on telly last year and there was so much Eng Prem and European footy on. Scottish football is obviously a much, much poorer standard than we're used to on telly but I don't think it seems as bad irl.

That's a good point

[Caversham Green]

Jack Ross in league games v Aberdeen Celtic Hearts Rangers

Played 19
Won 4
Drawn 4
Lost 11

Cup Semi Finals
Played 3
Won 1
Lost 2

Finals
Played 1
Lost 1

Overall
Played 23
Won 5 - 21.7%
Drawn 4 - 17. 4%
Lost 14 - 60.9%

https://fbref.com/en/squads/f3aacc58/Hibernian-Stats

We're always going to lose more than we win against Celtc and Rangers, but how does that record compare with Hearts and Aberdeen?

Why aren't you including cup-ties prior to the Semis? Is it because we won them all so they don't count as big games? That's what is becoming tiresome about your 'big game' chat - it's only your criteria that makes them big games. Jack Ross has lost some big games and he has won some big games according to my criteria. I would like him to won more but he has fully earned the opportunity to do so over the next three years in my opinion.

One thing I can't fathom is why a manager needs to motivate players for a cup final - this was the best chance many of them will get to earn a winner's medal and they should have been buzzing. Unless Ross did something to actively demotivate them, the players were at least as responsible for losing that final.

[calumhibee1]

You can't just chuck in a stat like that without also adding in some factors. The huns went the whole season unbeaten and scudded just about everyone, for instance.

Or that JR took over from the shambles of Heck in his first half season.

I’m not sure the factors are generally favourable to Jack Ross to be fair. We were supposed to be better than Aberdeen for the majority of his tenure, we were better than hearts for all of his tenure, Celtic have been the worst they’ve been in about 20 years for the majority of his tenure and Rangers have been exceptional for the majority of his tenure. We should also be very disappointed with both cup defeats to St J.

Keeping those factors in mind we should have picked up more than 4 wins in these 19 matches with the exception of Rangers, no doubt about it imo.

[matty_f]

Are you calling him a rat? :greengrin

“Represented” was what i was going for there.

Apologies to Dougie Tripod. :greengrin

[bingo70]

Oh please stop it. Your negativity and nit picking is tiresome, you play who you are drawn against in any cup competition it does not diminish the success if you win the trophy.

I think there’s a bit balance to be had.

Jack Ross deserves credit for getting us to the semi finals and finals. Lots of teams lose to poor opposition so he deserves credit for avoiding potential banana skins. He deserves credit and has rightly got credit for it.

I also don’t think there’s anything wrong with pointing out when analysing his performance as manager that he had extremely favourable draws and it is a factor in how we got to the latter stages.

Nobody is asking for the man to be shot. It’s just scratching a bit beneath the surface when looking at our season.

[Percy Vere]

Oh please stop it. Your negativity and nit picking is tiresome, you play who you are drawn against in any cup competition it does not diminish the success if you win the trophy.

Ditto

[Peevemor]

You can't just chuck in a stat like that without also adding in some factors. The huns went the whole season unbeaten and scudded just about everyone, for instance.

Or that JR took over from the shambles of Heck in his first half season.

I would also add that, although OF matches are big games for the supporters and we all love to get a result now and again, these aren't the matches that define our season - last season, getting results against Aberdeen, Livi and (dare I say it) St Johnstone was far more important.

[SHODAN]

Ross has an even record against Aberdeen as it stands which is more than most of our previous managers.

He's only managed three games against Hearts, but both losses were against an atrocious team far below us in quality.

[Selkirkhibs]

I'm happy he's staying on. We have made good progress, and although a more entertaining style would be welcome, perhaps that will come in time. A manager can't do everything at once. IMHO, he's earned a longer contract.

Yip. I'm very happy that he's signed an extension. I think we're very fortunate to have Jack Ross at the helm. Very good move by the club to extend his contract.

:aok:

[JimBHibees]

Yes, Jack Ross isn't very good in them.

You do realise he doesn't actually play.

[Since452]

I would also add that, although OF matches are big games for the supporters and we all love to get a result now and again, these aren't the matches that define our season - last season, getting results against Aberdeen, Livi and (dare I say it) St Johnstone was far more important.

I see them more as a bonus than anything else. You'd expect us not to take anything from those games.

[Scouse Hibee]

I think there’s a bit balance to be had.

Jack Ross deserves credit for getting us to the semi finals and finals. Lots of teams lose to poor opposition so he deserves credit for avoiding potential banana skins. He deserves credit and has rightly got credit for it.

I also don’t think there’s anything wrong with pointing out when analysing his performance as manager that he had extremely favourable draws and it is a factor in how we got to the latter stages.

Nobody is asking for the man to be shot. It’s just scratching a bit beneath the surface when looking at our season.

A season when we finished third in the league, that is a true reflection of how well he done,no so called favourable games there as we played the same teams as everyone else. Of course that can be explained away as there was no Hearts games I suppose!

[calumhibee1]

I see them more as a bonus than anything else. You'd expect us not to take anything from those games.

Not sure about that. On a game by game basis, maybe, but not over the course of a full season.

Home games against the OF, particularly Celtic last season we should be looking to win at least one a season imo.

If we use that logic for the OF then we should also be using a similar logic (although admittedly to maybe a lesser degree) to suggest that nobody should be taking points off of us (or as I said to a lesser degree, you could say not beating us) outside of Aberdeen and Hearts.

[ian cruise]

His Cup Record, we should have been in the Semi Finals every time given the draws we had is my point.

19/20 Scottish Cup
Dundee United
BSC Glasgow
Inverness
Hearts

League Cup 20/21 Knockout
Dundee
Alloa
St Johnstone

20/21 Scottish Cup
Queen of the South
Stranraer
Motherwell
Dundee United
St Johnstone

Surely this is the "we should have won these games as we are a bigger team" attitude that we have laughed at Kickback posters for having in the past. Additionally using the same logic why would we expect to win any trophy going forward as Rangers, Celtic, Aberdeen and potentially Hearts have a bigger budget and therefore more right to win the cups than we do?

[bingo70]

A season when we finished third in the league, that is a true reflection of how well he done,no so called favourable games there as we played the same teams as everyone else. Of course that can be explained away as there was no Hearts games I suppose!

No, everybody is giving him loads of credit for finishing third?

Don’t know why people are trying to create an issue that isn’t there, as if nobody is giving him any credit for what he did achieve?

There’s things to be worked on and improved upon but overall he did well for us to finish 3rd and get to the latter stages of the cups. That’s why he’s got a new deal and the majority are fine with that.

I didn’t enjoy watching his Hibs team last season and the record in big games is important to me. Obviously that’s the case with more people than just me. To others it’s all about the end result, that’s fine. Would be boring if everybody thought the same.

[Peevemor]

Not sure about that. On a game by game basis, maybe, but not over the course of a full season.

Home games against the OF, particularly Celtic last season we should be looking to win at least one a season imo.

If we use that logic for the OF then we should also be using a similar logic (although admittedly to maybe a lesser degree) to suggest that nobody should be taking points off of us (or as I said to a lesser degree, you could say not beating us) outside of Aberdeen and Hearts.

I haven't looked up the stats, but on decent season we might pick up something like 8 points from the OF - occasionally more and often less. The thing is that the likes of Aberdeen & Hearts will do much the same so, while these 8 points or whatever remain important, they're sort of cancelled out, with points gained against the teams around us in the league effectively counting for more.

[Peevemor]

No, everybody is giving him loads of credit for finishing third?

Don’t know why people are trying to create an issue that isn’t there, as if nobody is giving him any credit for what he did achieve?

There’s things to be worked on and improved upon but overall he did well for us to finish 3rd and get to the latter stages of the cups. That’s why he’s got a new deal and the majority are fine with that.

I didn’t enjoy watching his Hibs team last season and the record in big games is important to me. Obviously that’s the case with more people than just me. To others it’s all about the end result, that’s fine. Would be boring if everybody thought the same.

I'm fairly certain that there were people on here saying that he should be sacked if we didn't finish 3rd.

[bingo70]

I'm fairly certain that there were people on here saying that he should be sacked if we didn't finish 3rd.

Again though, that’s not really relevant to the point as the poster was saying he’s not getting credit for finishing 3rd. He is.

As for people wanting him sacked for finishing 4th or below. There was a lot of emotion around last season because of our performances in the big games you’re so keen to ignore.

People sometimes post stuff they don’t mean in the heat of the moment, I know you don’t as you’ve never criticised anything Hibs have ever done but it’s pretty normal behaviour for football fans.

[Peevemor]

Again though, that’s not really relevant to the point as the poster was saying he’s not getting credit for finishing 3rd. He is.

As for people wanting him sacked for finishing 4th or below. There was a lot of emotion around last season because of our performances in the big games you’re so keen to ignore.

Yeah, so not sacking him = giving him credit?


People sometimes post stuff they don’t mean in the heat of the moment, I know you don’t as you’ve never criticised anything Hibs have ever done but it’s pretty normal behaviour for football fans.


:yawn:

[Allez Hibs]

Yeah, so not sacking him = giving him credit?



:yawn:

Is Jack Ross your favourite Hibs manager of all time?

[Peevemor]

Is Jack Ross your favourite Hibs manager of all time?

He's certainly up there with Mowbray & Stubbs and might yet open a gap between himself and the others.

[bingo70]

Yeah, so not sacking him = giving him credit?



:yawn:

Do you think once the dust had settled many people would have really wanted him sacked for finishing 4th or was it a minority of people plus a few posting rubbish in the heat of the moment as most of us have done at some point or other?

From memory, more were just saying they wouldn’t be fussed if he left as a lot of people haven’t bought into this team and his style of football at all. To me that’s different than people actively wanting him sacked.

[Percy Vere]

I think there’s a bit balance to be had.

Jack Ross deserves credit for getting us to the semi finals and finals. Lots of teams lose to poor opposition so he deserves credit for avoiding potential banana skins. He deserves credit and has rightly got credit for it.

I also don’t think there’s anything wrong with pointing out when analysing his performance as manager that he had extremely favourable draws and it is a factor in how we got to the latter stages.

Nobody is asking for the man to be shot. It’s just scratching a bit beneath the surface when looking at our season.

Totally agree with you. But some posters choose to dwell on the negative all the time. I’m all for balance. After all it’s the team we SUPPORT.
I’m excited to see how we do this year and hopefully we can build on the successes of last year.

[Peevemor]

Do you think once the dust had settled many people would have really wanted him sacked for finishing 4th or was it a minority of people plus a few posting rubbish in the heat of the moment as most of us have done at some point or other?

From memory, more were just saying they wouldn’t be fussed if he left as a lot of people haven’t bought into this team and his style of football at all. To me that’s different than people actively wanting him sacked.

Some were saying that he should be sacked. More than once and not just in the heat of the moment.

It doesn't matter now anyway.

[Allez Hibs]

He's certainly up there with Mowbray & Stubbs and might yet open a gap between himself and the others.

Cool, nothing wrong with that 👍

For me, the only thing he's lacking is the have a go, be brave attitude. I'm sure he would endear himself to the fans more with that attitude. He meets all the criteria for a Hibs manager - Younger, articulate and well spoken. For whatever reason he is held to a higher standard. Neither excited or unexcited by him though.

[ian cruise]

Totally agree with you. But some posters choose to dwell on the negative all the time. I’m all for balance. After all it’s the team we SUPPORT.
I’m excited to see how we do this year and hopefully we can build on the successes of last year.

I think this is the crux of the matter and why it's proving to be such a divisive topic. Those arguing Ross' case see the criticism as a lack of support for the club/team and are concerned that people will turn quickly on the squad should a couple of results not go our way potentially affecting the players in a negative manner.

I get why others are still upset over the Scottish Cup loss. It's a competition that means a lot to Hibs after not winning it in so long. After the league cup loss there was still a chance of silverware and 3rd so it didn't hurt as much, more of a "dust ourselves down and go again" moment. With the cup game being the last of the season it's still fresh in people's minds, if there were couple of crucial league games and we secured 3rd after the Cup loss people might have reflected on the season slightly more favourably.

Personally I think there's no point in looking back, we've a new season, still kept many of our top players (so far) and the club and manager have made a commitment to each other. Granted I'm a self confessed happy clapper but I'm positive we can carry on from the foundations of last season, with added creativity of Allan and with players feeling a bit more familiar and relaxed as restrictions ease we'll hopefully see the type of football this team are capable of very soon.

[Hibs90]

Personally I have no issue with our league form or position. It was nice to finish third again, and I particularly enjoyed the win at Pittodrie - that was a game that Hibs teams of old would've lost. I'd hope to be in the mix again this season but we do need another few signings to strengthen. I'd like the football played to be nicer on the eye if it can but it is a results based business and if playing like that meant taking third every year then I'd probably be quite happy with that in the league.

The issues for me are the opportunities missed. Hearts semi, Saints semi and of course the cup final itself. Within the context of the season, and in particular with who was left in the league cup and the flat, deflated performance in the final, to leave with no silverware was disappointing. We could and should have walked away with at least one of the cups last season. He's won big games, but he's also lost more than he's won and he has to correct that starting with beating Hearts and if the opportunity in the cups presents itself in a similar vein to last season (with so called weaker teams left and neither of the bigots) then he has to deliver silverware IMO.

[JimBHibees]

Totally agree with you. But some posters choose to dwell on the negative all the time. I’m all for balance. After all it’s the team we SUPPORT.
I’m excited to see how we do this year and hopefully we can build on the successes of last year.

Agree seems a little odd to be going over same arguments on the eve of a new season. Looking forward to it also but not really the same rigmarole when we lose a game. As you say bit of support goes along way.

[Smartie]

Looking to the future is good.

Re the big games - I’d say the games against the Andorran team come under “should be winning” and can’t really be classed as “big games”.

Rijeka in the next round is his next big game. If he could negotiate a way through that one then he answers a lot of the big game criticism.

If he doesn’t then it’s not a disaster and we get on with doing our best in the other competitions but it would have to go down as another big game failure.

It’s harder to comment on future European games until they happen but if he beats Rijeka then loses to a big team in the next round then it shouldn’t be used as a stick to beat him. If he managed to earn us group stage football or claim the scalp of a big side then he can swing the balance massively in his favour and answer a lot of the criticism that has come his way - criticism that I think is valid.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Oh please stop it. Your negativity and nit picking is tiresome, you play who you are drawn against in any cup competition it does not diminish the success if you win the trophy.

Seems even if we had won the Scottish cup it wouldn’t have quite made it into the big game category.

Mental.

[blackpoolhibs]

I remember the Miller years, how many big games did he win?

[Allez Hibs]

Seems even if we had won the Scottish cup it wouldn’t have quite made it into the big game category.

Mental.

Thats nonsense and clearly not what anyone has said.

[calumhibee1]

Seems even if we had won the Scottish cup it wouldn’t have quite made it into the big game category.

Mental.

Yes. That’s exactly what it seems like.

[bingo70]

I remember the Miller years, how many big games did he win?

I’m no sure that example is backing up your point 😂

On paper he did a really good job, European qualification, third place (I think?), silverware and some really exciting attacking players.

Not many people look back at his time with any great fondness though.

IMO there’s comparables with Jack Ross there.

[Saint Hibee]

I'm not in the "Ross out" camp, but I have to admit that I've never really warmed to him. It's not been just the results, but his reaction to them in the post-match interviews. The fact that he just really didn't seem that bothered when we got humped by the worst Hearts team for years is something which I've still not got my head around.

[blackpoolhibs]

I’m no sure that example is backing up your point 😂

On paper he did a really good job, European qualification, third place (I think?), silverware and some really exciting attacking players.

Not many people look back at his time with any great fondness though.

IMO there’s comparables with Jack Ross there.
He was at the club 10 years, he would have been hounded out now within a year, just on his heart's record.

[bingo70]

He was at the club 10 years, he would have been hounded out now within a year, just on his heart's record.

Good, the miserable ******* 😂

Only joking. A decade of terrible results against Hearts though was shocking and probably still goes a long way to our attitude towards derbies now.

[blackpoolhibs]

He was a miserable sod. 😂

[Smartie]

I’m no sure that example is backing up your point 😂

On paper he did a really good job, European qualification, third place (I think?), silverware and some really exciting attacking players.

Not many people look back at his time with any great fondness though.

IMO there’s comparables with Jack Ross there.

I agree with the last sentence.

A poor derby record and spells of “pragmatic” football are blots on his legacy at Hibs.

When you consider his positives - some of the players he brought to the club, the fact he won a trophy, the fact he never got relegated in spite of all sorts of off-field issues and put some great teams together - it’s a shame, really.

The difference is, the dust has settled on Miller’s time. Jack Ross has the opportunity to improve on his negatives and become one of our best ever. For that to happen, we need to acknowledge that negatives even exist.

[matty_f]

I agree with the last sentence.

A poor derby record and spells of “pragmatic” football are blots on his legacy at Hibs.

When you consider his positives - some of the players he brought to the club, the fact he won a trophy, the fact he never got relegated in spite of all sorts of off-field issues and put some great teams together - it’s a shame, really.

The difference is, the dust has settled on Miller’s time. Jack Ross has the opportunity to improve on his negatives and become one of our best ever. For that to happen, we need to acknowledge that negatives even exist.

People are acknowledging negatives exist.

[Fergus52]

Not sure about that. On a game by game basis, maybe, but not over the course of a full season.

Home games against the OF, particularly Celtic last season we should be looking to win at least one a season imo.

If we use that logic for the OF then we should also be using a similar logic (although admittedly to maybe a lesser degree) to suggest that nobody should be taking points off of us (or as I said to a lesser degree, you could say not beating us) outside of Aberdeen and Hearts.

With fair/competent referees, or even VAR, we would have beaten rangers twice and celtic once last season.

Neither would have been flukey results either, overall we were very good against the old firm last season and extremely unlucky not to pick up a couple of wins.

[Andy74]

Cool, nothing wrong with that 👍

For me, the only thing he's lacking is the have a go, be brave attitude. I'm sure he would endear himself to the fans more with that attitude. He meets all the criteria for a Hibs manager - Younger, articulate and well spoken. For whatever reason he is held to a higher standard. Neither excited or unexcited by him though.

You have this pattern of railing against him for a bit, then backing down to you aren’t that bothered and then he wins you over for a bit then a result or two later you’re back at it.

I think you are bothered and you fairly actively don’t rate him.

[Northernhibee]

I think that the changes we’re seeing under Ross are sustainable and that’s something that takes time. Youngsters getting a chance like Bradley and Doig, really sensible signings like McGinn and Gogic and also taking a chance on lower league talent like Nisbet and Mackay. Once we make those three things a habit then we will reap the benefits big time.

Compare that to Lennon who got a good season from sending players out with back of a cigarette packet tactics but a rocket up their arse . It works for a while but as soon as players tire of it it loses any effect. A scattergun approach to recruitment just leaves you with a bloated team of high earners and takes time to recover from as both ourselves and the lesser greens found out.

Jack Ross knows what he’s going, is building a very solid foundation at the club and deserves more time. We also began to see the benefits of Stubbs recruitment of young, talented players who had something to prove before we started *****ing cash on the likes of Big Dave, Slivka etc.

[calumhibee1]

With fair/competent referees, or even VAR, we would have beaten rangers twice and celtic once last season.

Neither would have been flukey results either, overall we were very good against the old firm last season and extremely unlucky not to pick up a couple of wins.

We did play fairy well against the OF but again, we didn’t quite manage to get it over the line when it mattered. That’s where a lot of the criticism of JR comes from. In the big moments in big games we fall short too often. Hopefully that can be rectified this year.

[Since452]

I remember the Miller years, how many big games did he win?

Exactly. If Miller was around in the days of social media this place and Twitter would have been going nuts if Ross is a barometer. Even Mowbray, outstanding football but regularly losing to teams we should have been beating and some absolute derby hammerings. I don't know why Ross gets such a raw deal and people say he has a lot to prove. He's been scrutinised more than any manager I can remember.

[Allez Hibs]

Exactly. If Miller was around in the days of social media this place and Twitter would have been going nuts if Ross is a barometer. Even Mowbray, outstanding football but regularly losing to teams we should have been beating and some absolute derby hammerings. I don't know why Ross gets such a raw deal and people say he has a lot to prove. He's been scrutinised more than any manager I can remember.

Hibs.Net was around when Mowbray was manager.

[Allez Hibs]

I remember the Miller years, how many big games did he win?

Beat Rangers in a Semi Final.

[Peevemor]

Hibs.Net was around when Mowbray was manager.

With nowhere near the same levels of micro analysis, criticism and negativity as there is now.

[J-C]

We had some really good results mixed in with some horrendous ones, the cup defeats also stuck in the throat. The biggest thing for me was the manner of some of these poor losses against Livi a Ross C, plus the cup final defeat itself.
So far this season I've noticed a lot more energy and forward thinking from the team and it's noticable he's gone with a 4231 style with Allan behind the striker, obviously he realises creativity was a big problem last season.
I always said he needed that 1st proper season to sort things out and this season is what will make or break him, he's now got a good base and his additions are looking good.

[calumhibee1]

With nowhere near the same levels of micro analysis, criticism and negativity as there is now.

Mowbray was rightly slaughtered after some of the defeats to Hearts.

There was probably more positivity around his spell though because he delivered very similar to Ross but done it with a style that is possibly the best I’ve seen from Hibs. We also managed to beat the OF and Hearts a good few times which in the main is the sort of stuff people are wanting from JR. There was some absolute doings of the OF and Hearts under Mowbray as well and let’s not forget it was a Hearts side that split the OF.

Seeing as most folks main criticisms of Ross are based around his lack of big game wins - something which Mowbray delivered a decent amount of, and the style of football we play, it’s not really a surprise he was better received.

[Since90+2]

Put it this way, how many other managers in the league would you have over Ross? Gerrard is a given and the only other one you could maybe argue is Davidson.

That alone should suggest we've got a pretty good manager in place.

[bingo70]

With nowhere near the same levels of micro analysis, criticism and negativity as there is now.

Why do you think that is?

Are people just dicks now, more so than they were before? Is there some vendetta against Ross? Have people just not bought into him and his team because of the reasons mentioned on this thread?

Mean that question genuinely, it’s not a loaded question. Interested to hear why you think an element of the support haven’t bought into him and his team.

[calumhibee1]

Why do you think that is?

Are people just dicks now, more so than they were before? Is there some vendetta against Ross? Have people just not bought into him and his team because of the reasons mentioned on this thread?

Mean that question genuinely, it’s not a loaded question. Interested to hear why you think an element of the support haven’t bought into him and his team.

As I said above, Mowbray delivered very similar to what Jack Ross has (well, he actually delivered more in terms of league placings), done it with the best football a lot of us have seen Hibs play and managed to cuff the OF and Hearts numerous times whilst doing it. He also had a good few abominations similar to JR. He had Inverness he couldn’t beat whilst JR has St J.

Seeing as that’s exactly what people want from JR I’d suggest people have been pretty consistent in what they want seeing as Mowbray was more popular so I’m not sure it’s a case of JR being held to a higher standard because he gets more criticism than Mowbray, it’s more that the Mowbray Hibs team IS the standard that people want.

As a side note, I’ve not followed Mowbrays career at all since he left Celtic. Does he still play such an outstanding brand of football?

[Tommy75]

Put it this way, how many other managers in the league would you have over Ross? Gerrard is a given and the only other one you could maybe argue is Davidson.

That alone should suggest we've got a pretty good manager in place.

If Davidson was our manager he'd no doubt get pelters on here for the negative way he sets his team up.

[Since90+2]

If Davidson was our manager he'd no doubt get pelters on here for the negative way he sets his team up.

I highly doubt that if we'd just won both cups.

[Allez Hibs]

Why do you think that is?

Are people just dicks now, more so than they were before? Is there some vendetta against Ross? Have people just not bought into him and his team because of the reasons mentioned on this thread?

Mean that question genuinely, it’s not a loaded question. Interested to hear why you think an element of the support haven’t bought into him and his team.

Exactly, that's why I said .net was around when Mowbray was manager. Good question. We are all still the same Hibs fans.

[heretoday]

Well we got close in two cups and third in the league. Pretty good.
He just needs to push on.

[jacomo]

As I said above, Mowbray delivered very similar to what Jack Ross has (well, he actually delivered more in terms of league placings), done it with the best football a lot of us have seen Hibs play and managed to cuff the OF and Hearts numerous times whilst doing it. He also had a good few abominations similar to JR.

Seeing as that’s exactly what people want from JR I’d suggest people have been pretty consistent in what they want seeing as Mowbray was more popular so I’m not sure it’s a case of JR being held to a higher standard because he gets more criticism than Mowbray, it’s more that the Mowbray Hibs team IS the standard that people want.

As a side note, I’ve not followed Mowbrays career at all since he left Celtic. Does he still play such an outstanding brand of football?


:agree:

Also, context matters. Mowbray came in when expectations were pretty low and the club was desperately cutting its costs… albeit there was anticipation about a promising group of young players.

Jack replaced a manager who just wasn’t the right fit for us at all, at a time when Hibs had already shown we were back amongst the top 4 or 5 in Scotland and fans were expecting us to kick on under a new owner.

Ron is setting high expectations. I don’t think that’s a bad thing. He’s extended Jack’s contract, which is good, but as Jack himself says we have to continue to progress from here.

[Peevemor]

Why do you think that is?

Are people just dicks now, more so than they were before? Is there some vendetta against Ross? Have people just not bought into him and his team because of the reasons mentioned on this thread?

Mean that question genuinely, it’s not a loaded question. Interested to hear why you think an element of the support haven’t bought into him and his team.

It's defiitely been a gradual thing, but I think things have changed more quickly recently - is it Jack Ross, Covid/lockdown or a combination of both?

Also JR isn't Neil Lennon - though that seems to please and displease different people in almost equal numbers.

I think there's more to it in general, but I haven't got time right now (stupid work!!!).

[bingo70]

As I said above, Mowbray delivered very similar to what Jack Ross has (well, he actually delivered more in terms of league placings), done it with the best football a lot of us have seen Hibs play and managed to cuff the OF and Hearts numerous times whilst doing it. He also had a good few abominations similar to JR.

Seeing as that’s exactly what people want from JR I’d suggest people have been pretty consistent in what they want seeing as Mowbray was more popular so I’m not sure it’s a case of JR being held to a higher standard because he gets more criticism than Mowbray, it’s more that the Mowbray Hibs team IS the standard that people want.

As a side note, I’ve not followed Mowbrays career at all since he left Celtic. Does he still play such an outstanding brand of football?

Don’t know about outstanding but I think his teams try and play the right way.

Maybe going off on a tangent here a bit but I really liked John Collins spell as a manager and more than I did last season.

I thought when we were good we were absolutely outstanding. League cup final and Motherwell away 6-1 were the obvious examples. Obviously there were a lot of negative times then too so I’m not looking back with rose tinted goggles, I just liked his philosophy on the game, liked listening to him and as I say, when we were good, we were very very good.

Maybe that’s another reason I’ve possibly never been completely won over by this team. We’ve been far more consistent than we’ve ever been in my lifetime but I can’t remember many brilliant performances that I’ll remember in years to come. Second half of Motherwell away when we won 3-0 is probably the best I can think of but even in that game I remember thinking we were ***** first half.

I’m not saying Collins is a better manager than Ross before anyone jumps on that.

[Tommy75]

I highly doubt that if we'd just won both cups.

Maybe but Stubbs still comes in for a fair bit of criticism despite winning the cup (and taking us to the LC final in the same season).

It doesn't matter what our manager does they will always come in for criticism. Do well in the league but poor in the cups folk will get upset. Do well in the cups but poor in the league folk will get upset!

[JimBHibees]

Why do you think that is?

Are people just dicks now, more so than they were before? Is there some vendetta against Ross? Have people just not bought into him and his team because of the reasons mentioned on this thread?

Mean that question genuinely, it’s not a loaded question. Interested to hear why you think an element of the support haven’t bought into him and his team.

I go with the dicks theory :greengrin

[Peevemor]

As I said above, Mowbray delivered very similar to what Jack Ross has (well, he actually delivered more in terms of league placings), done it with the best football a lot of us have seen Hibs play and managed to cuff the OF and Hearts numerous times whilst doing it. He also had a good few abominations similar to JR. He had Inverness he couldn’t beat whilst JR has St J.

Seeing as that’s exactly what people want from JR I’d suggest people have been pretty consistent in what they want seeing as Mowbray was more popular so I’m not sure it’s a case of JR being held to a higher standard because he gets more criticism than Mowbray, it’s more that the Mowbray Hibs team IS the standard that people want.

As a side note, I’ve not followed Mowbrays career at all since he left Celtic. Does he still play such an outstanding brand of football?

From what I remember he had a decent record against Rangers, managed a draw or 2 against Celtic but didn't manage to beat them and won once or twice against Hearts but got thumped more often than not.

Maybe someone with a decent stat site will confirm (I could well be wrong).

[WhileTheChief..]

Why do you think that is?

Are people just dicks now, more so than they were before? Is there some vendetta against Ross? Have people just not bought into him and his team because of the reasons mentioned on this thread?

Mean that question genuinely, it’s not a loaded question. Interested to hear why you think an element of the support haven’t bought into him and his team.

Ross is under no more scrutiny than any of our previous managers.

He also doesn't get nearly the same amount of abuse as a lot of our previous managers have had.

The worst folk have had to say is that they find the football a bit boring or that he needs to win big games. It's hardly scathing.

I don't think it's people being dicks at all, it's more that people are less tolerant of others' views. This thread being a prime example.

The poster Allez is getting it tight when all he said was that JR has a lot to prove. Mental that that has annoyed so many so much.

In years gone by that comment would barely have registered. It certainly wouldn't have led to such a long thread.

[Peevemor]

Ross is under no more scrutiny than any of our previous managers.

He also doesn't get nearly the same amount of abuse as a lot of our previous managers have had.

The worst folk have had to say is that they find the football a bit boring or that he needs to win big games. It's hardly scathing.

I don't think it's people being dicks at all, it's more that people are less tolerant of others' views. This thread being a prime example.

The poster Allez is getting it tight when all he said was that JR has a lot to prove. Mental that that has annoyed so many so much.

In years gone by that comment would barely have registered. It certainly wouldn't have led to such a long thread.

Am I allowed to disagree?

[S4uzee]

Thats nonsense and clearly not what anyone has said.

Absolute nonsense

[silverhibee]

As I said above, Mowbray delivered very similar to what Jack Ross has (well, he actually delivered more in terms of league placings), done it with the best football a lot of us have seen Hibs play and managed to cuff the OF and Hearts numerous times whilst doing it. He also had a good few abominations similar to JR. He had Inverness he couldn’t beat whilst JR has St J.

Seeing as that’s exactly what people want from JR I’d suggest people have been pretty consistent in what they want seeing as Mowbray was more popular so I’m not sure it’s a case of JR being held to a higher standard because he gets more criticism than Mowbray, it’s more that the Mowbray Hibs team IS the standard that people want.

As a side note, I’ve not followed Mowbrays career at all since he left Celtic. Does he still play such an outstanding brand of football?

Think we beat ICT at Aberdeen ground under Mowbray.

[CapitalGreen]

From what I remember he had a decent record against Rangers, managed a draw or 2 against Celtic but didn't manage to beat them and won once or twice against Hearts but got thumped more often than not.

Maybe someone with a decent stat site will confirm (I could well be wrong).

Mowbray won 3 out of 9 games against Hearts.

33% win percentage, same as Lennon and Ross.

[Michael]

Don’t know about outstanding but I think his teams try and play the right way.

Maybe going off on a tangent here a bit but I really liked John Collins spell as a manager and more than I did last season.

I thought when we were good we were absolutely outstanding. League cup final and Motherwell away 6-1 were the obvious examples. Obviously there were a lot of negative times then too so I’m not looking back with rose tinted goggles, I just liked his philosophy on the game, liked listening to him and as I say, when we were good, we were very very good.

Maybe that’s another reason I’ve possibly never been completely won over by this team. We’ve been far more consistent than we’ve ever been in my lifetime but I can’t remember many brilliant performances that I’ll remember in years to come. Second half of Motherwell away when we won 3-0 is probably the best I can think of but even in that game I remember thinking we were ***** first half.

I’m not saying Collins is a better manager than Ross before anyone jumps on that.

Collins also had some outstanding players. Whittaker, Murphy, Fletcher and Brown are a level above anyone we've had recently (except McGinn).

[Danderhall Hibs]

I highly doubt that if we'd just won both cups.

He’d have been hounded out long before that due to the negative football and poor league results. Wouldn’t have had the chance.

[calumhibee1]

From what I remember he had a decent record against Rangers, managed a draw or 2 against Celtic but didn't manage to beat them and won once or twice against Hearts but got thumped more often than not.

Maybe someone with a decent stat site will confirm (I could well be wrong).

He won 1 against Celtic, won 3 against Hearts, 4 against Rangers and 3 against Aberdeen. Lost a semi to DU. 11 wins out of 29 of the traditional ‘big games’.

Considering Hearts split the OF it’s a pretty decent record.

He averaged 1.31 points a game in ‘big games’ if you allocate games at Hampden points whilst we’re currently averaging around 0.82 per game under JR, again if you allocate games at Hampden points. We also scored about 13% more goals PG under Mowbray.

https://www.fitbastats.com/hibs/manager2.php?id=174

All these things that Mowbray was better at are exactly what people are wanting more of from Jack Ross. We came to very similar end results under Mowbray and Ross in terms of league placings and cup performance but it was a hell of a lot more exciting to watch with a load more memorable games thrown in under Mowbray. 3-0 at Ibrox twice, 3-1 at Parkhead, 2-1 at Tynie, the unbeatable derby, the Benji derby, 2-1 at home V Rangers when we blew them away first half hour. Some of those are some of the best Hibs games in a generation. That’s why winning big games and playing attractive football matters.

[Smartie]

With nowhere near the same levels of micro analysis, criticism and negativity as there is now.

Do you remember the aftermath of Mowbray’s “if we keep playing like that, we’ll win more than we’ll lose” following a 4-4 draw with Dundee?

Meltdown iirc. Mowbray actually had a shaky first month or two, although I think most people could see that we had the makings of a very good team.

It would be hilarious to read some of the reaction to that comment at that time. Mowbray was, of course, absolutely correct and he was correct to have confidence in himself and his players.

It’s easy to sugar coat different eras further down the line. We all respect Mowbray for his work at Hibs but he had his ups and downs just as Ross has had. I don’t think he came under any less scrutiny.

I’m actually fully behind Ross and I’m pleased he’s extended his contract. There is just a bit of room for improvement in certain areas and I don’t think constructive criticism is a bad thing. I’m happy with the players he’s brought in, I’ve been happy with the friendly performances and I’m happy he’s experimenting with a tweaked formation. More than anything, I’m delighted he seems to appreciate Scott Allan’s unique ability and I’m pleased he seems to be building a team to get the best out of him. There’s the makings of a very good Hibs side there, strong in all areas and I’m looking forward to the competitive games starting.

And to Jack Ross shutting those of us who have been critical up.

[Tambo]

https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/article/ross-this-is-a-massive-game-for-us

[CapitalGreen]

He won 1 against Celtic, won 3 against Hearts, 4 against Rangers and 3 against Aberdeen. 11 wins out of 28 of the traditional ‘big games’.

Considering Hearts split the OF it’s a pretty decent record.

Am I correct in thinking he didn’t beat any of Hearts or the Old Firm until his 9th attempt?

[calumhibee1]

Am I correct in thinking he didn’t beat any of Hearts or the Old Firm until his 9th attempt?

I’ve got no idea. It’s quite a random stat though so I’m going to presume you know the answer? :greengrin

[BILLYHIBS]

Am I correct in thinking he didn’t beat any of Hearts or the Old Firm until his 9th attempt?
Tony Mowbray beat both Hearts and Celtic in his first season and beat Rangers 0-3 at Ibroke early into his second season thanks to an Ivan Sproule hat-trick

“ What the fick is he gonna dae?” ��

He followed that up by beating Rangers 2-1 and 0-3 in the Cup

[Callum_62]

https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/article/ross-this-is-a-massive-game-for-usIs that a big game or do we need to split this up into big and Massive?

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[jacomo]

Do you remember the aftermath of Mowbray’s “if we keep playing like that, we’ll win more than we’ll lose” following a 4-4 draw with Dundee?

Meltdown iirc. Mowbray actually had a shaky first month or two, although I think most people could see that we had the makings of a very good team.

It would be hilarious to read some of the reaction to that comment at that time. Mowbray was, of course, absolutely correct and he was correct to have confidence in himself and his players.

It’s easy to sugar coat different eras further down the line. We all respect Mowbray for his work at Hibs but he had his ups and downs just as Ross has had. I don’t think he came under any less scrutiny.

I’m actually fully behind Ross and I’m pleased he’s extended his contract. There is just a bit of room for improvement in certain areas and I don’t think constructive criticism is a bad thing. I’m happy with the players he’s brought in, I’ve been happy with the friendly performances and I’m happy he’s experimenting with a tweaked formation. More than anything, I’m delighted he seems to appreciate Scott Allan’s unique ability and I’m pleased he seems to be building a team to get the best out of him. There’s the makings of a very good Hibs side there, strong in all areas and I’m looking forward to the competitive games starting.

And to Jack Ross shutting those of us who have been critical up.


Stubbs had a shaky start too. Maybe there’s something in it? :wink:

[ahibby]

If Davidson was our manager he'd no doubt get pelters on here for the negative way he sets his team up.

Are you sure he would set up a Hibs team the same way as he has St J? JR played similarly away to Aberdeen and we were satisfied with a 0 1 win We also played a 5 5 0 to draw 0 0 with Celtic. I wouldnt criticise him for that because its what we needed. Perhaps we have those who will buy ST as long as we are finishing third perhaps some only see home games as ST holders and want to see more success and consistent satisfying home performances so they can justify continuing to buy STs even when cash becomes tighter.

[bingo70]

Notice Swansea sacked their manager earlier. Read the comments on Twitter and their fans couldn’t stand him despite on paper doing a really good job. His predecessor (at Brighton now I think?) was far more popular even though he only managed a 10th place finish and on paper not doing anything special.

Thought it was relevant as it felt like there were comparables with Jack Ross. Good job on paper but a big chunk of their fans just never took to the guy.

It’s not just Hibs fans that are demanding more than just a decent end result it seems.

[Allez Hibs]

Why do you think that is?

Are people just dicks now, more so than they were before? Is there some vendetta against Ross? Have people just not bought into him and his team because of the reasons mentioned on this thread?

Mean that question genuinely, it’s not a loaded question. Interested to hear why you think an element of the support haven’t bought into him and his team.

Or could it be flipped that maybe an element of the fanbase is more sensitive than before?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Or could it be flipped that maybe an element of the fanbase is more sensitive than before?

Definitely- Twitter and that doesn’t help. Someone states an opinion and cos of the echo chamber nature of Twitter it spreads and becomes reality.

There’s also an element of folk that live to look like they’re knowledgeable on Twitter and the likes. Desperate for Ross to fail so they can say they never fancied him from the start.

[Lago]

Definitely- Twitter and that doesn’t help. Someone states an opinion and cos of the echo chamber nature of Twitter it spreads and becomes reality.

There’s also an element of folk that live to look like they’re knowledgeable on Twitter and the likes. Desperate for Ross to fail so they can say they never fancied him from the start.
So true, especially your final paragraph

[ian cruise]

Why do you think that is?

Are people just dicks now, more so than they were before? Is there some vendetta against Ross? Have people just not bought into him and his team because of the reasons mentioned on this thread?

Mean that question genuinely, it’s not a loaded question. Interested to hear why you think an element of the support haven’t bought into him and his team.

I think there's a common trend across wider society that people are less patient and the growth of social media has allowed dissenting voices to make mild concerns people might have quickly snowball to become massive issues.

Conversely what happens is you have another element online who feel duty bound to push back and offer support to the club, a political party or belief and they end up sounding far more inflexible to other opinions than they would had the conversation been face to face in the pub or walking up Easter Road before or after a game.

It's not specific against Ross, Stubbs (prior to the cup win) and Lennon both had their detractors and those who held them up as the messiah, when they were actually good managers with their own flaws.

Ross is a good manager too, but has areas he can improve upon. Unfortunately there are some posting statements such as "we will never win silverware under Ross" and making statements about accepting 3rd place as accepting mediocrity which then gets taken as a personal slight by those who give the manager 100% support.

[ian cruise]

Definitely- Twitter and that doesn’t help. Someone states an opinion and cos of the echo chamber nature of Twitter it spreads and becomes reality.

There’s also an element of folk that live to look like they’re knowledgeable on Twitter and the likes. Desperate for Ross to fail so they can say they never fancied him from the start.

I'd agree with this also, particularly the part about some being keen for him to fail so they can point out they were right all along. Not saying it's the case for everyone who isn't convinced by Ross but it's definitely the case for some.

Not an approach I particularly understand I'd rather be wrong and Hibs be successful (as I was with Lennon initially) than be telling folks I was right and we're rubbish.

[Lago]

I think there's a common trend across wider society that people are less patient and the growth of social media has allowed dissenting voices to make mild concerns people might have quickly snowball to become massive issues.

Conversely what happens is you have another element online who feel duty bound to push back and offer support to the club, a political party or belief and they end up sounding far more inflexible to other opinions than they would had the conversation been face to face in the pub or walking up Easter Road before or after a game.

It's not specific against Ross, Stubbs (prior to the cup win) and Lennon both had their detractors and those who held them up as the messiah, when they were actually good managers with their own flaws.

Ross is a good manager too, but has areas he can improve upon. Unfortunately there are some posting statements such as "we will never win silverware under Ross" and making statements about accepting 3rd place as accepting mediocrity which then gets taken as a personal slight by those who give the manager 100% support.
Your point about meeting face to face in the pub in days past is correct, you did had a moan about the game with your mates & went home. If someone felt really strongly they just might write into the "Pink" but it would be a week before it would be published. Everything is instant now. I often wonder how long Alex Miller would have survived if social media had been available during his time.

[JimBHibees]

Your point about meeting face to face in the pub in days past is correct, you did had a moan about the game with your mates & went home. If someone felt really strongly they just might write into the "Pink" but it would be a week before it would be published. Everything is instant now. I often wonder how long Alex Miller would have survived if social media had been available during his time.

Also the instant reaction can be more extreme than responding later when the person has calmed down and may be more moderate. Good example the match thread on here. It is like a bipolar convention :greengrin

Wouldn't underestimate not being at games either when emotions are more readily expressed rather than watching at home

[Peevemor]

I think there's a common trend across wider society that people are less patient and the growth of social media has allowed dissenting voices to make mild concerns people might have quickly snowball to become massive issues.

Conversely what happens is you have another element online who feel duty bound to push back and offer support to the club, a political party or belief and they end up sounding far more inflexible to other opinions than they would had the conversation been face to face in the pub or walking up Easter Road before or after a game.

It's not specific against Ross, Stubbs (prior to the cup win) and Lennon both had their detractors and those who held them up as the messiah, when they were actually good managers with their own flaws.

Ross is a good manager too, but has areas he can improve upon. Unfortunately there are some posting statements such as "we will never win silverware under Ross" and making statements about accepting 3rd place as accepting mediocrity which then gets taken as a personal slight by those who give the manager 100% support.


The pub/face-to-face thing is definitely true. I'm fairly confident that the majority of people on here who think I'm a dick would find me at least a wee bit more bearable if we had a pint or two together. Things become far more polarised when written down as nuance is lost (unless you plaster everything with smilies - then you look like a 12 year old Bebo throwback).


One thing I don't understand is some peoples' need to type heat of the moment comments in match update threads. If I'm watching the match and somebody sclaffs a pass I might say "f*** off Porto" (or whoever) to myself, but unless it was a real howler I won't bother taking the time to post about it - often making a wee slip seem far worse than it actually was. It's the same when the other team as a wee spell of possession - even though it's always going to happen whoever the opposition, it only takes about 90 seconds before we get treated to "FFS you're sitting far too deep Hibs" then 30 seconds later the calls for substitutions start. Maybe it's just me but I think stuff like this ruins the match threads and thus the small remaining social aspect for folk like me who can't get to matches.


It's interesting that you speak about people "who feel duty bound to push back and offer support to the club...". It might come across that way, and it's something of which I'm often accused (at times quite aggressively), but nothing could be further from the truth as far as I'm concerned. If I disagree with something and I feel strongly enough about it then I'll say so, and more often than not the people being criticised aren't around to defend themselves.

[ian cruise]

The pub/face-to-face thing is definitely true. I'm fairly confident that the majority of people on here who think I'm a dick would find me at least a wee bit more bearable if we had a pint or two together. Things become far more polarised when written down as nuance is lost (unless you plaster everything with smilies - then you look like a 12 year old Bebo throwback).


One thing I don't understand is some peoples' need to type heat of the moment comments in match update threads. If I'm watching the match and somebody sclaffs a pass I might say "f*** off Porto" (or whoever) to myself, but unless it was a real howler I won't bother taking the time to post about it - often making a wee slip seem far worse than it actually was. It's the same when the other team as a wee spell of possession - even though it's always going to happen whoever the opposition, it only takes about 90 seconds before we get treated to "FFS you're sitting far too deep Hibs" then 30 seconds later the calls for substitutions start. Maybe it's just me but I think stuff like this ruins the match threads and thus the small remaining social aspect for folk like me who can't get to matches.


It's interesting that you speak about people "who feel duty bound to push back and offer support to the club...". It might come across that way, and it's something of which I'm often accused (at times quite aggressively), but nothing could be further from the truth as far as I'm concerned. If I disagree with something and I feel strongly enough about it then I'll say so, and more often than not the people being criticised aren't around to defend themselves.

8 hope you didn't think the last part was me having a pop at you, it was a general comment and not aimed at anyone in particular. To be honest I'm definitely guilt of being that guy in the past which was why I know it happens.

[Peevemor]

8 hope you didn't think the last part was me having a pop at you, it was a general comment and not aimed at anyone in particular. To be honest I'm definitely guilt of being that guy in the past which was why I know it happens.

Not at all but to be honest I can see how I (for example) might come across that way. The thing is I'll generally only argue the toss about stuff I care about, so if someone has a pop at Man Utd. or the World Darts Federation I probably won't react.

However, have a go at Lewis Stevenson, Nicola Sturgeon or Bigfoot and the Hendersons and you're mine!

[Keith_M]

Not at all but to be honest I can see how I (for example) might come across that way. The thing is I'll generally only argue the toss about stuff I care about, so if someone has a pop at Man Utd. or the World Darts Federation I probably won't react.

However, have a go at Lewis Stevenson, Nicola Sturgeon or Bigfoot and the Hendersons and you're mine!


How about if somebody criticizes the French?


,🥴

[Peevemor]

How about if somebody criticizes the French?


,🥴

Depends. I'm the first to do so if I think it's deserved. Anyway, as many of my Breton friends say - the French are our closest neighbours.

[Keith_M]

Depends. I'm the first to do so if I think it's deserved. Anyway, as many of my Breton friends say - the French are our closest neighbours.


You're a better man than me, mate, cos I never miss an opportunity to have a dig at the Germans (my missus' fellow countrymen)


:greengrin

[bingo70]

As someone that was on this thread not wanting him sacked but not exactly won over by him, I have to admit I’m pretty convinced by him now.

I’m not digging this thread up so people can post told you so’s but I am curious how many other doubters have been won over?

I’m enjoying our style of football this season, he’s got a terrific eye for a player, gets team selections and subs right and it just feels like the team and squad is progressing.

Fair play to him.

[Big_Franck]

As someone that was on this thread not wanting him sacked but not exactly won over by him, I have to admit I’m pretty convinced by him now.

I’m not digging this thread up so people can post told you so’s but I am curious how many other doubters have been won over?

I’m enjoying our style of football this season, he’s got a terrific eye for a player, gets team selections and subs right and it just feels like the team and squad is progressing.

Fair play to him.

He's definitely progressing us as a club, there's no doubt about that. He said in his post match interview today that we are now 43 consecutive round of games in the top 4 in the league. That's incredible consistency for a famously inconsistent club. We should enjoy him while we can as he'll move on to a bigger job in the next couple years I think.

[The Modfather]

As someone that was on this thread not wanting him sacked but not exactly won over by him, I have to admit I’m pretty convinced by him now.

I’m not digging this thread up so people can post told you so’s but I am curious how many other doubters have been won over?

I’m enjoying our style of football this season, he’s got a terrific eye for a player, gets team selections and subs right and it just feels like the team and squad is progressing.

Fair play to him.

This is where I am too. I think a lot of the criticism and my ambivalence towards Ross was justified. Just as the praise he’s received this season is merited. We’re a lot better to watch this season and look to impose ourselves more, without having to compromise on results or challenging at the top end of the league.

[Since452]

He's definitely progressing us as a club, there's no doubt about that. He said in his post match interview today that we are now 43 consecutive round of games in the top 4 in the league. That's incredible consistency for a famously inconsistent club. We should enjoy him while we can as he'll move on to a bigger job in the next couple years I think.

And that doesn't include the very impressive form after he took over. We were a team heading for a relegation battle. Turned that around.

[Peevemor]

This is where I am too. I think a lot of the criticism and my ambivalence towards Ross was justified. Just as the praise he’s received this season is merited. We’re a lot better to watch this season and look to impose ourselves more, without having to compromise on results or challenging at the top end of the league.I disagree that the ambivalence was justified. He's the same manager now as he was then, only he's a bit further down the line in constructing his squad.

Some folk reserved judgement and that's their right. Others were just wrong, and very vocally so.

[Allez Hibs]

This is where I am too. I think a lot of the criticism and my ambivalence towards Ross was justified. Just as the praise he’s received this season is merited. We’re a lot better to watch this season and look to impose ourselves more, without having to compromise on results or challenging at the top end of the league.

If we can keep this start to the season going and how we are playing up then things could be looking very good. Dundee Utd in League Cup Quarter Final is an important game to win to get us back to Hampden and then who knows, we could be in another final and hopefully lessons have been learned. Hopefully the window doesn't come back to bite us before January though.

[B.H.F.C]

As someone that was on this thread not wanting him sacked but not exactly won over by him, I have to admit I’m pretty convinced by him now.

I’m not digging this thread up so people can post told you so’s but I am curious how many other doubters have been won over?

I’m enjoying our style of football this season, he’s got a terrific eye for a player, gets team selections and subs right and it just feels like the team and squad is progressing.

Fair play to him.

I’m getting there with him.

Thought we stood up to the challenge today, can’t accuse us of not turning up. Did think he made a mistake playing Scott where he did.

Think we’re close to being a really good Hibs side. Lack of options hindered us today.

[Allez Hibs]

Think we’re close to being a really good Hibs side. Lack of options hindered us today.

We literally had no option to bring on attacking wise that could impact the game today and be a goal threat. That's a worry.

[neil7908]

I disagree that the ambivalence was justified. He's the same manager now as he was then, only he's a bit further down the line in constructing his squad.

Some folk reserved judgement and that's their right. Others were just wrong, and very vocally so.

I was unsure about JR but he's definitely won me over.

However, I think 5 league games into the season is a wee bit early to give it an 'I told you so'.

One of the main criticisms was an inability to win big games. We're out of Europe at the first real test, and apart from today (which we didn't win), have yet to play our likely main rivals. The cups have barely even started.

It's been a very promising start but plenty still to do.

[Peevemor]

I was unsure about JR but he's definitely won me over.

However, I think 5 league games into the season is a wee bit early to give it an 'I told you so'.

One of the main criticisms was an inability to win big games. We're out of Europe at the first real test, and apart from today (which we didn't win), have yet to play our likely main rivals. The cups have barely even started.

It's been a very promising start but plenty still to do.No "I told you so" from me. I argued at the time that most of the criticism wasn't justified - I'm just sticking to my position.

[neil7908]

No "I told you so" from me. I argued at the time that most of the criticism wasn't justified - I'm just sticking to my position.

👍

[calumhibee1]

As someone that was on this thread not wanting him sacked but not exactly won over by him, I have to admit I’m pretty convinced by him now.

I’m not digging this thread up so people can post told you so’s but I am curious how many other doubters have been won over?

I’m enjoying our style of football this season, he’s got a terrific eye for a player, gets team selections and subs right and it just feels like the team and squad is progressing.

Fair play to him.

Yup.

We’re infinitely better to watch this season imo which was by far my biggest issue with JR. Watching us wasn’t particularly enjoyable most of last season.

[matty_f]

I was unsure about JR but he's definitely won me over.

However, I think 5 league games into the season is a wee bit early to give it an 'I told you so'.

One of the main criticisms was an inability to win big games. We're out of Europe at the first real test, and apart from today (which we didn't win), have yet to play our likely main rivals. The cups have barely even started.

It's been a very promising start but plenty still to do.

I don’t think it’s just the 5 games though - that stat about 43 league games when we’ve not been out the top four (including all of last season), coupled with reaching at least the semi final stage in the last three or four Cup competitions is evidence that he’s been performing for much longer than 5 games.

He’s a top manager, I hope he’s around for a long while yet, as I’m certain we’ll miss him when he goes.

[Alfred E Newman]

We literally had no option to bring on attacking wise that could impact the game today and be a goal threat. That's a worry.

Maybe so but despite that we created the best scoring chances in the last 10 mins and could have pinched a win.

[Weegreenman]

What’s become abundantly clear is that the moment we go on a bad run, the supporters will turn on JR and his baffling tactics and player choices!

All very rosey in Jack’s world at present. Long may it continue.

[flash]

What’s become abundantly clear is that the moment we go on a bad run, the supporters will turn on JR and his baffling tactics and player choices!

All very rosey in Jack’s world at present. Long may it continue.

Can't work out if you are backing or attacking him. Seems a bit of both.

[blackpoolhibs]

You have to be blind if you can't see the improvement in the whole club since he joined, some folk want everything yesterday, most sane people realise it takes a little longer to build a decent team and a consistently good team.

[bigwheel]

You have to be blind if you can't see the improvement in the whole club since he joined, some folk want everything yesterday, most sane people realise it takes a little longer to build a decent team and a consistently good team.

This [emoji122][emoji122]

[Shrekko]

You have to be blind if you can't see the improvement in the whole club since he joined, some folk want everything yesterday, most sane people realise it takes a little longer to build a decent team and a consistently good team.

Absolutely.

We still have way to many trigger happy fans who call for a raft of changes every time something goes wrong. It’s been proved time and time again that the hire and fire approach causes chaos and instability.

He made an immediate impact when he came in and since then we’ve steadily been building something better and more exciting. He is 100 percent the man to take as forward.

Only issue I currently have is that he’s been left with a difficult situation in that we didn’t get the players we needed in the window -not his fault and maybe not anyone’s fault.

The people talking about his “baffling tactical decisions” are normally people who think that watching Gary Neville on a Monday makes them qualified.

[JimBHibees]

You have to be blind if you can't see the improvement in the whole club since he joined, some folk want everything yesterday, most sane people realise it takes a little longer to build a decent team and a consistently good team.

Spot on night and day from when he came in the door. Incremental improvement and it is clearly showing on the pitch.

[WhileTheChief..]

I'm not aware of anyone that thinks JR should go or that is waiting on him to slip up to have a pop at him.

Impression I get is that we're a happy fanbase, pleased with the direction the club's going.

[Allez Hibs]

Can't work out if you are backing or attacking him. Seems a bit of both.

For me this is part of the problem. There is a perception that there are fans waiting to jump on the back of Jack Ross when the next bad result happens. Next to nobody has criticised Jack Ross recently on here, especially after the game yesterday. Yet there are posts like this looking to have a pop at people who they think might be having a sly dig at Jack Ross.

The only criticism I have seen since the game yesterday is of Graeme Mathie for the shambolic end to the transfer option which left us with next to no attacking option to bring on off the bench.

It was a good point yesterday, let's move on to the next game.

[Allez Hibs]

Only issue I currently have is that he’s been left with a difficult situation in that we didn’t get the players we needed in the window -not his fault and maybe not anyone’s fault.



Exactly this. Only problem we have just now and it's clear it's not of Jack Ross doing.

[lord bunberry]

I disagree that the ambivalence was justified. He's the same manager now as he was then, only he's a bit further down the line in constructing his squad.

Some folk reserved judgement and that's their right. Others were just wrong, and very vocally so.
That’s correct, some of the criticism he received last season was way over the top. I could’ve understood it if we were having a poor season, but he steered the club through the covid crisis in a professional manner and he’s left us in the position to kick on from a position of strength.

[Andy74]

For me this is part of the problem. There is a perception that there are fans waiting to jump on the back of Jack Ross when the next bad result happens. Next to nobody has criticised Jack Ross recently on here, especially after the game yesterday. Yet there are posts like this looking to have a pop at people who they think might be having a sly dig at Jack Ross.

The only criticism I have seen since the game yesterday is of Graeme Mathie for the shambolic end to the transfer option which left us with next to no attacking option to bring on off the bench.

It was a good point yesterday, let's move on to the next game.

That perception comes because certain people change their mind on a regular basis and pretty much after 1 bad result are back at it again.

[Since452]

Jack Ross has improved us and is continuing to do so. There was plenty of fight and dig from the players yesterday. Nobody can say we didn't turn up this time. Night and day compared to our last derby at Easter Road. Considering the players we are missing too i think he deserves a lot of credit and it bodes really well for the rest of the season. We aren't where we are by mistake.

[Shrekko]

I'm not aware of anyone that thinks JR should go or that is waiting on him to slip up to have a pop at him.

Impression I get is that we're a happy fanbase, pleased with the direction the club's going.

I guess we’ll find out at some point but I think you might be wrong about the JR thing. It’s probably just a small minority but they are there - you probably see it more on social media that on here. I think there is also a lack of warmth to him considering the job he’s done - even small things like a lot of folk just refer to him a ‘Ross’ and the way what he has achieved has been dismissed by some people. I genuinely read many “whoop de do we came third but I cannae watch any more of this dross” type comments last season. I know a lot was to do with our Hampden failures but for a club that has experienced so many lows, relegations etc recently we need a bit more reality in some quarters.

[Callum_62]

I'm sure there was poster saying he'd be gone 10 games into this season

He better start losing sharpish [emoji16]

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[Allez Hibs]

It's a very promising start. We will have only played Celtic at Home after first round of fixtures and Hearts Aberdeen Rangers all away.

Hearts will be the opposite with only Rangers away.

Aberdeen will have played us and Celtic at home.

We will be in great shape if we can be 3rd after first round of fixtures.

[Allez Hibs]

I'm sure there was poster saying he'd be gone 10 games into this season

He better start losing sharpish [emoji16]

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

I posted let's see where we are after 10 games after some were getting carried away being top after 2 games.
If we can keep this start up its looking like another solid season.

[wookie70]

He certainly seems to be a man with a plan. That wasn't so with lots of previous managers. Lots of things to like. He started by making us hard to beat and making picking up points and getting through rounds our aim. That was achieved maybe even over achieved. Pretty much every signing has merit and most look like fit, athletic, skilful players who will take us on our next step which is maintaining what we have done with gaining point and getting through rounds but adding some panache and entertainment, we are well on the way there too. Big games are the last hurdle to get over for me and it isn't so much about winning them all but turning up. We certainly turned up and gave a good account of ourselves yesterday despite an injury hit squad. We look to be a few signings and a couple of injury recoveries away from having Hibee nirvana - a team that not only competes, wins, gets to a wins the odd final but does so playing good football. Ross has taken us there quickly and an argument could be made he has done so while making us money not costing us fortunes given the low spend and now the value of players in the squad. Hope he is here for a long time

[Brightside]

For me this is part of the problem. There is a perception that there are fans waiting to jump on the back of Jack Ross when the next bad result happens. Next to nobody has criticised Jack Ross recently on here, especially after the game yesterday. Yet there are posts like this looking to have a pop at people who they think might be having a sly dig at Jack Ross.

The only criticism I have seen since the game yesterday is of Graeme Mathie for the shambolic end to the transfer option which left us with next to no attacking option to bring on off the bench.

It was a good point yesterday, let's move on to the next game.

Is that due to you being banned for a wee while? :greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

From the minute he walked through the door we have improved, yet had we lost yesterday I'm sure some of the folk who wanted him out last season would have been right here getting the boot in and wanting him gone again. He will leave us before he's anywhere near the sack.

[Jdawg]

Winning 11 away games last year was incredible. Every player he signs improves the team. He’s cleared out some of the crap too.

Some of our early play was great yesterday. You can see we are trying to get in passed into midfield quickly and get on the front foot.

Once we get Murphy, Doidge and Meuller in that’s a strong 1st 11 and bench. If Nesbit or Doig go then I have no doubt and completely trust JR to bring in a fantastic replacement.

[truehibernian]

Exactly this. Only problem we have just now and it's clear it's not of Jack Ross doing.

How’s it the club’s doing then - not a dig, just curious why they’ve had a ‘shambles’ The McGrath signing fell through only because of timing and complexity of the deal. The move we made was only possible due to McGrath’s deal down south falling through late on deadline day. Wouldn’t believe the Leigh Griffiths story either, if Hibs wanted him he’d have been the first to know and he’s come out and said he wasn’t informed.

I think our league and cup showings have clearly shown we’ve had a good summer window. Don’t underestimate keeping Doig, Nisbet and more importantly Boyle - that’s as good as three signings, and keeping the squad together is what will ensure forward momentum.

The downside is together with St. Mirrren we’ve allowed other clubs to know the Buddies bargaining position and that potential winter transfer is now up in the air.

[Stevie Reid]

83 games into his tenure now, the respective ratios are: Win 51.8% Draw 21.6% Loss 26.5% - hugely impressive, especially given the state we were in when he took over.

I posted many times in his defence last year, and always felt that despite some big setbacks, we were very much on a positive trajectory. I also never believed that his default setting was a cautious, boring manager who's happy not to get beat, and believed that he aspired to an exciting Hibs team. I think this team is a very exciting one, with more new arrivals to come in January.

He has done well at sorting out our shortcomings since he's been here - one of the biggest ones from last season was our inability to respond when going behind; already this season we have come from behind to draw or win on four occasions (in three of them equalising within six minutes or less of going behind). He has undoubtedly won big games since he's been here, including a win at Tynecastle - regardless, a win against the OF, or another win against them (which inevitably will come) should hopefully get the last few doubters on board.

He's been an excellent appointment.

[Allez Hibs]

83 games into his tenure now, the respective ratios are: Win 51.8% Draw 21.6% Loss 26.5% - hugely impressive, especially given the state we were in when he took over.

I posted many times in his defence last year, and always felt that despite some big setbacks, we were very much on a positive trajectory. I also never believed that his default setting was a cautious, boring manager who's happy not to get beat, and believed that he aspired to an exciting Hibs team. I think this team is a very exciting one, with more new arrivals to come in January.

He has done well at sorting out our shortcomings since he's been here - one of the biggest ones from last season was our inability to respond when going behind; already this season we have come from behind to draw or win on four occasions (in three of them equalising within six minutes or less of going behind). He has undoubtedly won big games since he's been here, including a win at Tynecastle - regardless, a win against the OF, or another win against them (which inevitably will come) should hopefully get the last few doubters on board.

He's been an excellent appointment.

Are you including the Dundee game which finished 2-2 but should have won? We went 1-0 down then 2-1 up and should really have won 3-1. I just think some stats like that can be a wee bit misleading as 2-2 was dissapointing tbh.

It's been a positive start but there is no denying the majority of fans will judge him on the big games we'll have this season. We have a League Cup Quarter Final next week which for me is important to win and to get back to Hampden to keep momentum up of our good start to the season. Momentum is a word JR uses a lot just now.

[matty_f]

That perception comes because certain people change their mind on a regular basis and pretty much after 1 bad result are back at it again.

“Jack Dross” springs to mind.

[bingo70]

That perception comes because certain people change their mind on a regular basis and pretty much after 1 bad result are back at it again.

That could be me you’re talking about and if so, fair enough, I’ll take it on the chin.

With jack Ross last season I was up and down a lot with him and it wouldn’t take much for me to get on his back again.

I do think it’s different this season, well it is for me anyway. I think the football was so crap last year I just hated watching Hibs. I thought we were murder. We obviously kept getting good results though so I continually had to hold my hands up.

This season though I feel he’s got much more credit in the bank for when we have an inevitable bad result as I’m enjoying watching us play. I think we’re playing a really entertaining brand of football now and I just don’t think we were last season, despite what some stats say.

I had arguments with people last season as for me, it’s not just about results, I want to be entertained and get good results. I know lots of people don’t care about that and would be happy with winning 1-0 every week regardless of how we played. That’s fine but it’s not what I’m after.

I think as a manager he’ll continue to win over the doubters if we keep on playing how we have been this season.

[Andy74]

Are you including the Dundee game which finished 2-2 but should have won? We went 1-0 down then 2-1 up and should really have won 3-1. I just think some stats like that can be a wee bit misleading as 2-2 was dissapointing tbh.

It's been a positive start but there is no denying the majority of fans will judge him on the big games we'll have this season. We have a League Cup Quarter Final next week which for me is important to win and to get back to Hampden to keep momentum up of our good start to the season. Momentum is a word JR uses a lot just now.

It has taken you about 3 hours to go from being in good shape to do well to talking about having to win big games.

[Allez Hibs]

It has taken you about 3 hours to go from being in good shape to do well to talking about having to win big games.

Eh? Isn't the whole point of the season to try and win football matches and the further you get in competitions, the bigger the games become and therefor more important to the fans? I could have that wrong.

[calumhibee1]

That could be me you’re talking about and if so, fair enough, I’ll take it on the chin.

With jack Ross last season I was up and down a lot with him and it wouldn’t take much for me to get on his back again.

I do think it’s different this season, well it is for me anyway. I think the football was so crap last year I just hated watching Hibs. I thought we were murder. We obviously kept getting good results though so I continually had to hold my hands up.

This season though I feel he’s got much more credit in the bank for when we have an inevitable bad result as I’m enjoying watching us play. I think we’re playing a really entertaining brand of football now and I just don’t think we were last season, despite what some stats say.

I had arguments with people last season as for me, it’s not just about results, I want to be entertained and get good results. I know lots of people don’t care about that and would be happy with winning 1-0 every week regardless of how we played. That’s fine but it’s not what I’m after.

I think as a manager he’ll continue to win over the doubters if we keep on playing how we have been this season.

:agree:

[Stevie Reid]

Are you including the Dundee game which finished 2-2 but should have won? We went 1-0 down then 2-1 up and should really have won 3-1. I just think some stats like that can be a wee bit misleading as 2-2 was dissapointing tbh.

It's been a positive start but there is no denying the majority of fans will judge him on the big games we'll have this season. We have a League Cup Quarter Final next week which for me is important to win and to get back to Hampden to keep momentum up of our good start to the season. Momentum is a word JR uses a lot just now.

Of course I am, because we went a goal down and drew the game. I don't disagree that a point was a bit disappointing in the end, particularly after Murphy's miss - but Dundee were definitely better early on, and Macey needed to make a few good saves. A point at that stage of the game was appealing.

Last season, ten of our 11 league losses were without scoring - basically, up until the latter stages of the league (where we came back to beat RC, and draw against Livi in successive matches), when we went behind, we were beaten. We've gone behind four times this season, and not been beaten. It's progress.

[Andy74]

Eh? Isn't the whole point of the season to try and win football matches and the further you get in competitions, the bigger the games become and therefor more important to the fans? I could have that wrong.

Not arguing with that.

I’m not sure why you don’t just stick to not liking Ross. It takes you no time to get back to detailing the fact he has to win the next big game or he will be under some sort of pressure again.

[Allez Hibs]

Not arguing with that.

I’m not sure why you don’t just stick to not liking Ross. It takes you no time to get back to detailing the fact he has to win the next big game or he will be under some sort of pressure again.

We have had a good start to the season, why are you trying to put words in my mouth?

Is the League Cup Quarter Final not a big game for us to get back to Hampden?

As a club shouldn't we regularly be playing in big games?

[blackpoolhibs]

We have had a good start to the season, why are you trying to put words in my mouth?

Is the League Cup Quarter Final not a big game for us to get back to Hampden?

As a club shouldn't we regularly be playing in big games?
Are we not doing that?:confused:

[matty_f]

Are we not doing that?:confused:

More than we have been in many a year.

[hibee316]

We have had a good start to the season, why are you trying to put words in my mouth?

Is the League Cup Quarter Final not a big game for us to get back to Hampden?

As a club shouldn't we regularly be playing in big games?

Are you this contrary in the pub? Looked on a couple of threads and it's just you arguing the toss.

[Since452]

83 games into his tenure now, the respective ratios are: Win 51.8% Draw 21.6% Loss 26.5% - hugely impressive, especially given the state we were in when he took over.

I posted many times in his defence last year, and always felt that despite some big setbacks, we were very much on a positive trajectory. I also never believed that his default setting was a cautious, boring manager who's happy not to get beat, and believed that he aspired to an exciting Hibs team. I think this team is a very exciting one, with more new arrivals to come in January.

He has done well at sorting out our shortcomings since he's been here - one of the biggest ones from last season was our inability to respond when going behind; already this season we have come from behind to draw or win on four occasions (in three of them equalising within six minutes or less of going behind). He has undoubtedly won big games since he's been here, including a win at Tynecastle - regardless, a win against the OF, or another win against them (which inevitably will come) should hopefully get the last few doubters on board.

He's been an excellent appointment.

That's got to be the best win percentage from a Hibs manager in many a year? 52%? Incredible.

[Iggy Pope]

Are you this contrary in the pub? Looked on a couple of threads and it's just you arguing the toss.


https://i.ibb.co/ZWx1LzN/3-A98-AF7-C-CC68-43-C1-9-A23-F3-DA6-B476-BFA.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

[Scorrie]

That's got to be the best win percentage from a Hibs manager in many a year? 52%? Incredible.

Saw in the Herald today that we have been in the top four for 43 weeks. Pretty impressive

[blackpoolhibs]

Saw in the Herald today that we have been in the top four for 43 weeks. Pretty impressive

Aye but the rest of the time we've been a shambles, horrendous, a car crash. :greengrin

[w pilton hibby]

That's got to be the best win percentage from a Hibs manager in many a year? 52%? Incredible.

Fourth highest win percentage of all time. (Managing 10 + games)

Games Won Win Rate

Jock Stein 50 31 62.00%
Alan Stubbs 100 59 59.00%
John Halligan 11 6 54.55%
Jack Ross 83 44 53.01%

[CapitalGreen]

Fourth highest win percentage of all time. (Managing 10 + games)

Games Won Win Rate

Jock Stein 50 31 62.00%
Alan Stubbs 100 59 59.00%
John Halligan 11 6 54.55%
Jack Ross 83 44 53.01%

When you take into account Stubbs managed us in the Championship and Halligan was a only in as a short term caretaker, Jack Ross’ record is very very good.

[Weegreenman]

Can't work out if you are backing or attacking him. Seems a bit of both.

He gets my 100% backing.
However I didn’t like his tactic second half. He brought on Gogic and played one up top to hit them on the break.
Risky strategy that almost worked but it meant giving up a lot of possession
in the midfield area and invite waves of attack.
I’d prefer us to be on the front foot, attacking them, controlling the game.

[Brightside]

Are we not doing that?:confused:

What games are the big games?

[blackpoolhibs]

What games are the big games?

Aw ffs dont start that again.:greengrin