Scotland V Czech Republic

[weecounty hibby]

Czech boy took the goal well, fair play to him but why Hendry thought it was a good idea to strike it from 35 yards I'll never know. Was always a chance it could ricochet with all our defenders up
Said that earlier.1000000 to 1 shot through the whole Czech team including keeper and at least half a dozen of our players. Left him miles out of position as well. Great piece of skill for the goal though

[Feed McGraw]

The second Czech goal was a worldie which required pinpoint accuracy. Nothing you can do about a goal like that. I thought we played okay, our problem being an inability to take our chances, which is the difference at this level. We won't beat England at Wembley, and Croatia are a good side, so we're probably toast already, but I hope we can at least get a couple of goals. You would see a lot more goals like that if keepers start taking up those kind of positions.

[Onion]

Czech boy took the goal well, fair play to him but why Hendry thought it was a good idea to strike it from 35 yards I'll never know. Was always a chance it could ricochet with all our defenders up

Fantastic shot by the boy but he'll never ever get a situation like that against another international side. Calamitous decision-making by Henry and Marshall.

[3pm]

It’s not even that great a finish. Essentially it’s an open goal which you’ve got to hit from 50 yards. Great vision, not all that difficult to execute. Hit it high, hit it hard and hit the target.

Behave man. 😁

[Jones28]

It’s not even that great a finish. Essentially it’s an open goal which you’ve got to hit from 50 yards. Great vision, not all that difficult to execute. Hit it high, hit it hard and hit the target.

That’s some serious over simplification of a beautiful finish.

[He's here!]

It’s not even that great a finish. Essentially it’s an open goal which you’ve got to hit from 50 yards. Great vision, not all that difficult to execute. Hit it high, hit it hard and hit the target.

If you say so. I'd say it was a terrific finish which showed quick thinking and first-class technique in a high pressure situation.

[Rumble de Thump]

Marshall was on the edge of his box when the ball was struck by the Czech player and about a foot away from the goal line when the ball went in. That's how accurately and well struck the shot was.

[Hibernia&Alba]

[QUOTE=Hibernia&Alba;6594367]The second Czech goal was a worldie which required pinpoint accuracy. Nothing you can do about a goal like that. I thought we played okay, our problem being an inability to take our chances, which is the difference at this level. We won't beat England at Wembley, and Croatia are a good side, so we're probably toast already, but I hope we can at least get a couple of goals.[/

I think there’s plenty you can do about it. It was a “worldie” because our keepers start position was virtually on the half way line. If Marshall’s in his goal like he should be then the guy doesn’t even take it on.

We were on the attack, so Marshall took up the sweeper position, in case the Czechs broke. It happens all the time. The fact their striker was able to execute the shot from fifty yards is just one of those rare things which might result in a goal once in twenty attempts. It was superb because Marshall almost had it covered. He applied just the right pace and accuracy to beat him.

[Sergio sledge]

The midfield were flooded and tightly marked. The opposition coach obviously saw this as Scotland’s strength.

Instead they let the Scotland back 3 have the ball and not much happened as they are pretty average players.

Forgot about the right wing back O’Donnell as he’s limited and you have Robertson where our best chances came from but this was rare.

Midfield didn’t get on the ball so they sent diagonal ball and long hoofs to strikers - one being Christie who doesn’t suit that style and the ball was often lost very quickly.Yup, exactly this. The Czech team flooded the midfield because they knew that, without Tierney, we had no CB's capable of carrying the ball forward into midfield. Was much better when McTominay moved back there.

I thought we had our chances and whilst not brilliant probably did enough to have got something from the game, if we'd had quality upfront like they had.

Adams has to start against England and we've got to hope that Tierney is fit as he is crucial for the success of this system.

[Hiber-nation]

It’s not even that great a finish. Essentially it’s an open goal which you’ve got to hit from 50 yards. Great vision, not all that difficult to execute. Hit it high, hit it hard and hit the target.

Behave eh?

[Ringothedog]

It’s not even that great a finish. Essentially it’s an open goal which you’ve got to hit from 50 yards. Great vision, not all that difficult to execute. Hit it high, hit it hard and hit the target.

😂 I would suggest you try it and see if it’s that easy.

[660]

It’s not even that great a finish. Essentially it’s an open goal which you’ve got to hit from 50 yards. Great vision, not all that difficult to execute. Hit it high, hit it hard and hit the target.

lol surprised your computer didn’t burst into flames typing up this hot take

[calumhibee1]

😂 I would suggest you try it and see if it’s that easy.

It is. The goalie is already out the equation.

You do realise that as a professional footballer that hitting something that size from that distance really isn’t all that difficult? If it was then there’s no chance players would be trying to play 50 yard passes ever. As they’d be nigh on impossible if hitting something about 10x the size was difficult.

[weecounty hibby]

It is. The goalie is already out the equation.

You do realise that as a professional footballer that hitting something that size from that distance really isn’t all that difficult?
I reckon if you set that scenario up again with the keeper in the same position it would be about a 30% success rate. It was a fantastic peice of skill.

[Lancs Harp]

It is. The goalie is already out the equation.

You do realise that as a professional footballer that hitting something that size from that distance really isn’t all that difficult?

Think I would just quit on my stool with this one Calum.

[Since452]

Agree with CH1 that you do need an element of luck when hitting it from that far out. If it comes off you look brilliant but seen a lot of them missed. Seemed to take a massive swerve in flight. Got to be brave and confident enough to take it on though so all credit to the lad. Won the game for them.

[B.H.F.C]

The defenders were in the wrong at least as much. Two of then standing miles away from their most forward player. If they are in position the scorer can't turn and Marshall has loads of time to get back. The other defender tried a shot that was the wrong option barring the one in a thousand times it flies in the top corner

If Marshall isn’t away out of his goal, Hanley has it totally under control IMO, the boy wasn’t going to run away from him.

[Aldo]

Yup, exactly this. The Czech team flooded the midfield because they knew that, without Tierney, we had no CB's capable of carrying the ball forward into midfield. Was much better when McTominay moved back there.

I thought we had our chances and whilst not brilliant probably did enough to have got something from the game, if we'd had quality upfront like they had.

Adams has to start against England and we've got to hope that Tierney is fit as he is crucial for the success of this system.

Adams should have started today and tbh you can’t second guess Clarke who for me hit it wrong and took too long to change.

O ‘Donnell is woeful for this level.

Agree regarding the CR getting MF correct. McGinn and McTominay hardly got a touch.

I actually fear for Friday as whilst England looked nothing special against a poor Croatian team I think they have players in the front areas that can hurt us. I hope I’m wrong but I cannot see us getting anything on Friday evening


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[CockneyRebel]

Chic's was definitely up the slope


Yes....remember it well!

[Feed McGraw]

Marshall was on the edge of his box when the ball was struck by the Czech player and about a foot away from the goal line when the ball went in. That's how accurately and well struck the shot was. I'm pretty sure he was on the edge of the centre circle not his box.

[calumhibee1]

I reckon if you set that scenario up again with the keeper in the same position it would be about a 30% success rate. It was a fantastic peice of skill.

And that’s where we’ll disagree to an extent. I’d not necessarily disagree with your 30% number but something which could be executed 1 in every 3 tries isn’t fantastic skill imo. Goalies probably save penalties less frequently.

Out of interest, if people think it’s such an incredible goal, what part of that goal is so technically difficult to execute?

[Since452]

Adams should have started today and tbh you can’t second guess Clarke who for me hit it wrong and took too long to change.

O ‘Donnell is woeful for this level.

Agree regarding the CR getting MF correct. McGinn and McTominay hardly got a touch.

I actually fear for Friday as whilst England looked nothing special against a poor Croatian team I think they have players in the front areas that can hurt us. I hope I’m wrong but I cannot see us getting anything on Friday evening


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Agree. Adams was a breath of fresh air when he came on . Very surprised he didn't start. O'Donnell looked poor as did Dykes. Steve Clarke needs to take a lot of blame for that today. In a weird way though I fancy us to get something against England. I thought the pundits were way OTT about their performance yesterday.

[Rumble de Thump]

I'm pretty sure he was on the edge of the centre circle not his box.

You'll be a lot less sure after you watch the replay :greengrin

[Hibernia&Alba]

And that’s where we’ll disagree to an extent. I’d not necessarily disagree with your 30% number but something which could be executed 1 in every 3 tries isn’t fantastic skill imo. Goalies probably save penalties less frequently.

Out of interest, if people think it’s such an incredible goal, what part of that goal is so technically difficult to execute?

Judging the pace and getting the accuracy from fifty yards, with only a split second to make up his mind. If he hits it too hard, the ball goes over the bar; too soft and the keeper gets back to save it. It was a superb goal.

[weecounty hibby]

And that’s where we’ll disagree to an extent. I’d not necessarily disagree with your 30% number but something which could be executed 1 in every 3 tries isn’t fantastic skill imo. Goalies probably save penalties less frequently.

Out of interest, if people think it’s such an incredible goal, what part of that goal is so technically difficult to execute?
You realise a penalty is from 12 yards, this guy hit a shot from approx 50. If its not a skill why do we keep seeing Beckham v Wimbledon so often, and why we talk about McGinlay and Charnley so much? It's because it's not an easy thing to do. In fact 30% is probably an over exaggeration

[calumhibee1]

Judging the pace and getting the accuracy from fifty yards, with only a split second to make up his mind. If he hits it too hard, the ball goes over the bar; too soft and the keeper gets back to save it. It was a superb goal.

Players do all those things with 40 or 50 yard passes god knows how many times a game.

Great vision to spot the opportunity? Absolutely.

Technically outstanding to pull it off? Not even close for me.

[Aldo]

Agree. Adams was a breath of fresh air when he came on . Very surprised he didn't start. O'Donnell looked poor as did Dykes. Steve Clarke needs to take a lot of blame for that today.

I know hindsight is a great thing but Adams looked sharp and was on front foot. His touch was also very good. If you’re starting 2 up top he had to start imho.

I wonder if Clarke will change it up. Maybe bring Patterson in at RWB??

Tbh cannot see it. Clarke will go safe and that’ll mean a starting line up with zero pace up yip and a very very narrow midfield!


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[calumhibee1]

You realise a penalty is from 12 yards, this guy hit a shot from approx 50. If its not a skill why do we keep seeing Beckham v Wimbledon so often, and why we talk about McGinlay and Charnley so much? It's because it's not an easy thing to do. In fact 30% is probably an over exaggeration

A penalty? A goalie is in goals for a penalty.

There’s no goalie to beat for that goal. He’s got to hit the target and make sure it’s not a daisy cutter.

[Billy Whizz]

I'm pretty sure he was on the edge of the centre circle not his box.

See attached

[Hiber-nation]

Difference in quality at either end of the pitch.

Their striker scores two brilliant goals, we’ve got Dykes.

Their goalie has an unbelievable save, ours is wandering away up the pitch a couple of minutes later.

Agree, Dykes v Schick. Sounds straightforward when you put it like that.

Clarke didn't sound too sure about Tierney for Friday but I hope he's bluffing.

[Rumble de Thump]

A penalty? A goalie is in goals for a penalty.

There’s no goalie to beat for that goal. He’s got to hit the target and make sure it’s not a daisy cutter.

Marshall was almost on his goal line when the ball went in. Out of interest, what do you think 'open goal' means?

[weecounty hibby]

A penalty? A goalie is in goals for a penalty.

There’s no goalie to beat for that goal. He’s got to hit the target and make sure it’s not a daisy cutter.
Pretty sure there was a keeper. If he had under hut that shot Marshall would have saved it.

[Steve20]

It’s not even that great a finish. Essentially it’s an open goal which you’ve got to hit from 50 yards. Great vision, not all that difficult to execute. Hit it high, hit it hard and hit the target.

This has to be a case of disagreeing just for the sake of going against popular opinion.

It was a fantastic goal.

[Feed McGraw]

I'm pretty sure he was on the edge of the centre circle not his box. Take that back , he isn't as far up as I thought but still too far imo.

[Crab apple]

For people questioning Steve Clarke just think how bad it was under Levein. Avril’s solution for Friday is below. No surprise he chooses Gordon but surprised he’s included a forward.

‘I would play 3-4-3 against England, with Hanley, Cooper, and Tierney, if he's fit. My four across the middle would be O'Donnell, McTominay, Gilmour and Robertson. Then I'd have McGinn and Armstrong behind Adams. That's with Gordon in goal too.’

[Rumble de Thump]

See attached

That's quite a bit before the shot was taken. You can watch the replays on the BBC website if you're interesetd in torturing yourself :greengrin

[calumhibee1]

Marshall was almost on his goal line when the ball went in. Out of interest, what do you think 'open goal' means?

And there you have it. He almost was but he wasn’t and that’s why it went in. If he was on his line then it wouldn’t have went in. It’s not like the guy has ratted it into the postage stamp and Marshall couldn’t save it. He wasn’t in his goals. By the time the balls crossed the line it’s about waist height in the middle of the goals. Hence why all he’s had to do is hit the target and make sure it’s not a daisy cutter.

[weecounty hibby]

For people questioning Steve Clarke just think how bad it was under Levein. Avril’s solution for Friday is below. No surprise he chooses Gordon but surprised he’s included a forward.

‘I would play 3-4-3 against England, with Hanley, Cooper, and Tierney, if he's fit. My four across the middle would be O'Donnell, McTominay, Gilmour and Robertson. Then I'd have McGinn and Armstrong behind Adams. That's with Gordon in goal too.’
And that's why he is now giving advice to Brechin City in the Highland League and spouting pish on the radio. ****ing loser his whole career

[cappoquinboy]

It’s not even that great a finish. Essentially it’s an open goal which you’ve got to hit from 50 yards. Great vision, not all that difficult to execute. Hit it high, hit it hard and hit the target.

Spoken by someone who has spent most of their life watching football and never got close to playing at a high level

[calumhibee1]

Spoken by someone who has spent most of their life watching football and never got close to playing at a high level

Ive played to Lowland League level which is higher than the vast majority of people have :aok:

[Billy Whizz]

That's quite a bit before the shot was taken. You can watch the replays on the BBC website if you're interesetd in torturing yourself :greengrin

He had a high position. I’m not a goalie, so don’t know if his starting point should have been that high
We were on the front foot chasing the equaliser, but a short pass and we were done

[WeeRussell]

Just on the Marshall thing - it was a very, very nice finish but I do see where Calum is coming from to an extent. I thought it was just a superb goal until I seen the replay and realised Marshall was closer to the half way line than his box.

Absolutely no reason for him to be that far up the field other than to get a better view. Therefore, despite having a decent game besides that, goalkeeper takes a large part of the blame for me. It’s not a goal regardless of the strike if keeper is where he should be.

It was still a fine finish, as was their first goal.

[weecounty hibby]

Ive played to Lowland League level which is higher than the vast majority of people have :aok:
How many goals did you score from the halfway line? You know seeing as it's easy peasy. 😀

[cappoquinboy]

Ive played to Lowland League level which is higher than the vast majority of people have :aok:

As I said . . . .

[hibsbollah]

Ive played to Lowland League level which is higher than the vast majority of people have :aok:

I’m sure even Lowland League players talk a load of tosh about football from time to time :greengrin

(And I actually agree with you on Marshall’s culpability for the goal, he shouldn’t be that high up, unless we play that sweeper keeper style, which we don’t)

[calumhibee1]

How many goals did you score from the halfway line? You know seeing as it's easy peasy. 😀

There’s a load of things need to fall in the players favour to make it possible. The ball has to break kindly to you when you’re close enough to the goals to pull it off, the keeper has to be too far off his line (probably far too far off his line, as Marshall was) and you also need to be aware of that fact.

If all those things fall into place then the technical side of launching a ball 50 yards at a target that size really isn’t all that difficult.

[He's here!]

Never thought I'd say this but I am way way more excited for this than I was for the Cup Final!

:saltireflag

That could never be the case for me. I'm still angry about the cup final but I'm over a Scotland defeat pretty much as soon as the final whistle goes. Hibs run through the blood but international games like today have always struck me as more of a one-off jolly where a lot of people who otherwise don't have much interest can join in and become football fans for the day. All good fun but not worth agonising over. Hibs provide more than enough agony for me to be going on with!

[calumhibee1]

I’m sure even Lowland League players talk a load of tosh about football from time to time :greengrin

(And I actually agree with you on Marshall’s culpability for the goal, he shouldn’t be that high up, unless we play that sweeper keeper style, which we don’t)

Of course :greengrin

[Billy Whizz]

There’s a load of things need to fall in the players favour to make it possible. The ball has to break kindly to you when you’re close enough to the goals to pull it off, the keeper has to be too far off his line and you also need to be aware of that fact.

If all those things fall into place then the technical side of launching a ball 50 yards at a target that size really isn’t all that difficult.

Still think it’s good piece of skill, to have enough power to be highly enough to go over the goalie
Bet you 5/6 out of 10 it’s not a goal

[calumhibee1]

Still think it’s good piece of skill, to have enough power to be highly enough to go over the goalie
Bet you 5/6 out of 10 it’s not a goal

Absolutely Billy. Nobody is scoring that more often than not. But then I’d imagine that goes for near enough every striker in football who score less than half the opportunities that come their way.

But something that could probably be executed half the times you try it as you’ve suggested really isn’t all that exciting imo. It’s more of a ‘novelty’ goal so to speak rather than a truly exceptional piece of skill I’d say.

[Hibee Mac]

It's now no longer in our hands. That being said if the Czechs get any kind of result against Croatia then we can still qualify by beating Croatia.

Slim chance of that happening but end of the day a 1 off game can go any way and I still think this team has something about it.

[Aldo]

For people questioning Steve Clarke just think how bad it was under Levein. Avril’s solution for Friday is below. No surprise he chooses Gordon but surprised he’s included a forward.

‘I would play 3-4-3 against England, with Hanley, Cooper, and Tierney, if he's fit. My four across the middle would be O'Donnell, McTominay, Gilmour and Robertson. Then I'd have McGinn and Armstrong behind Adams. That's with Gordon in goal too.’

There’s not a chance Gilmour will start on Friday.
I wanted him to start today.

I’d play Patterson at RWB too as O’Donnell is woeful. Bit of energy down that side keeping Trippier on his toes.

Marshall will keep his place too.


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[DH1875]

It's now no longer in our hands. That being said if the Czechs get any kind of result against Croatia then we can still qualify by beating Croatia.

Slim chance of that happening but end of the day a 1 off game can go any way and I still think this team has something about it.

How is it not in our own hands? Win the remaining 2 games and we qualify.

[calumhibee1]

How is it not in our own hands? Win the remaining 2 games and we qualify.

Not if Czech beat Croatia and England beat Czech surely? Then it would be down to GD. (I suppose that is still in our hands but it doesn’t guarantee us qualification)

[B.H.F.C]

It's now no longer in our hands. That being said if the Czechs get any kind of result against Croatia then we can still qualify by beating Croatia.

Slim chance of that happening but end of the day a 1 off game can go any way and I still think this team has something about it.

As unlikely as it is, it is still in our hands. Six points and were through. Four points would more than likely get us through as well.

[cabbageandribs1875]

i'm just glad we're not playing Israel next

[calumhibee1]

As I said . . . .

If playing to a higher level than that is where you start to think people’s opinions on football are valid then you’ll be dismissing 99.9% of people’s opinions :aok:

[ahibby]

There’s not a chance Gilmour will start on Friday.
I wanted him to start today.

I’d play Patterson at RWB too as O’Donnell is woeful. Bit of energy down that side keeping Trippier on his toes.

Marshall will keep his place too.


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I agree that O'Donnell was very poor and should have been subbed earlier. Needed someone to unlock their defence znd draw more fouls Gilmour on paper is ideal for that and I am disappointed that he wasnt used. In the second half McGinn was marked out of the game and that was an opportunity to shuffle mid and bring Gilmour on.

[DH1875]

Not if Czech beat Croatia and England beat Czech surely? Then it would be down to GD. (I suppose that is still in our hands but it doesn’t guarantee us qualification)

With the amount of teams that can qualify by finishing 3rd in their group, 6 points would see us qualify. 4 would more than likely be enough.

[calumhibee1]

With the amount of teams that can qualify by finishing 3rd in their group, 6 points would see us qualify. 4 would more than likely be enough.

Forgot there was 3rd place teams going through!

[Aldo]

I agree that O'Donnell was very poor and should have been subbed earlier. Needed someone to unlock their defence znd draw more fouls Gilmour on paper is ideal for that and I am disappointed that he wasnt used. In the second half McGinn was marked out of the game and that was an opportunity to shuffle mid and bring Gilmour on.

Like I say I would have started Gilmour today or at least gave him a run out but no, McGregor, Forrest and Fraser step in. We all know what they can or cannot do at this level and we had nothing to loose.

I actually think McTominay and Gilmour would work very well together!

We have some talented players however until we get a manager that’s willing to blood them we will regress.

I would even contemplate playing Paterson on Friday. We’ve nothing to lose and might as well go for it.

I do however expect a very similar line up on Friday as today with zero width and pace up top


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[Argylehibby]

Ive played to Lowland League level which is higher than the vast majority of people have :aok:

That chap Lineker on the BBC just now played at a decent level and he thought it was an "incredible" goal.

[Jones28]

If that goal isn’t in the top 5 goals of the tournament I’ll be stunned.

[Sergio sledge]

https://theathletic.com/2650760/2021/06/14/the-technique-the-goalkeeping-a-moment-so-perfect-it-defied-logic-patrik-schicks-wonder-goal-broken-down?source=user-shared-article

A really interesting article here. I kind of think Shearer agrees with Calum that the technique required to pull off this type of goal is nothing special, but the goal itself is because it is about more than just striking the ball, there's so much more that goes into it.

The photo in that article just after the guy struck the ball is incredible. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210614/a827cf23ab9ec385ae9b38e28a9a5dc4.jpg

[calumhibee1]

That chap Lineker on the BBC just now played at a decent level and he thought it was an "incredible" goal.

He can think that all he wants, he’s perfectly entitled to his opinion.

I personally think as I said above, it’s far more of a novelty goal than a truly great goal. Technique wise, it’s really not hugely impressive to hit the target from 50 yards when the goalie is 30 yards out imo. He was never getting back to it unless the guy floated it and as such all he had to do was hit the target.

[calumhibee1]

https://theathletic.com/2650760/2021/06/14/the-technique-the-goalkeeping-a-moment-so-perfect-it-defied-logic-patrik-schicks-wonder-goal-broken-down?source=user-shared-article

A really interesting article here. I kind of think Shearer agrees with Calum that the technique required to pull off this type of goal is nothing special, but the goal itself is because it is about more than just striking the ball, there's so much more that goes into it.

The photo in that article just after the guy struck the ball is incredible. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210614/a827cf23ab9ec385ae9b38e28a9a5dc4.jpg

:agree:

As I said, there’s other elements of it are great. The vision to spot the opportunity is superb. I don’t think it’s a technically great goal though. Far from it.

It’s a goal that as that article says, requires so many things to fall in your favour to be able to take it on. Shearer suggests he never even had such an opportunity fall to him throughout his whole career which shows how rare it is which is why we don’t see it all that often regardless of how ‘easy’ it is technically.

[Lancs Harp]

Forgot there was 3rd place teams going through!

Last time round in France, two of the third placed teams that progressed had 4 points and two had three points, including eventual winners Portugal!! If youre hoping to go through with three points you really need a reasonable GD. Other teams had three points and didnt qualify.

[Iain G]

He can think that all he wants, he’s perfectly entitled to his opinion.

I personally think as I said above, it’s far more of a novelty goal than a truly great goal. Technique wise, it’s really not hugely impressive to hit the target from 50 yards when the goalie is 30 yards out imo. He was never getting back to it unless the guy floated it and as such all he had to do was hit the target.

It looked impressive to me and I am going with the professional centre forward of some note and his view of it

[northstandhibby]

For much of the game I thought Scotland battled well and on another day could easily have won it if we'd had a our shooting boots on and better decision making qualities. The biggest managerial mistake (imo) was to only give Nisbet the last 12 minutes or so, should have been on not long after their second goal went in. Disappointing but still positive about the team.

[calumhibee1]

It looked impressive to me and I am going with the professional centre forward of some note and his view of it

As posted above, another professional centre forward in Alan Shearer also said that it wasn’t technically anything special. So there’s obviously a bit of debate even between the professionals!

[gaz1875]

:agree:

As I said, there’s other elements of it are great. The vision to spot the opportunity is superb. I don’t think it’s a technically great goal though. Far from it.

It’s a goal that as that article says, requires so many things to fall in your favour to be able to take it on. Shearer suggests he never even had such an opportunity fall to him throughout his whole career which shows how rare it is which is why we don’t see it all that often regardless of how ‘easy’ it is technically.

It was technically superb but wouldn't have happened if Marshall's starting position was the edge of the 18 yard box where he should have been.

If it was scored from 30 yards out it would have been a superb strike, he was nearly 50 yards out and couldn't have place it better if he ran up and to the 6 yard box and threw it there.

[Pretty Boy]

I actually don't think Marshall starting position is the issue when Hendry has the ball and inexplicably decides to shoot with 2 5 yards passes on, one of which would have seen us in a great attacking position down the right. I quite often wandered 10-15 yards or more outside the box when my teams had the ball in that position and you'll see loads of keepers do it.

The issue is he doesn't get into the right position quickly enough when the Czechs take possession. From loss of ball to goal is a fair bit of time and he's still 20+ yards of his line. There was ample time to get to around the penalty spot and if he does so then the striker doesn't even attempt the shot.

In saying all that it's still a sensational finish and a great bit of skill. He hits it quickly and in the perfect spot, a yard or 2 higher and it sails over the bar, the same lower and Marshall saves it. Great pace on the ball and right in the sweet spot. There's a reason you don't see many goals like that.

[stantonhibby]

I actually don't think Marshall starting position is the issue when Hendry has the ball and inexplicably decides to shoot with 2 5 yards passes on, one of which would have seen us in a great attacking position down the right. I quite often wandered 10-15 yards or more outside the box when my teams had the ball in that position and you'll see loads of keepers do it.

The issue is he doesn't get into the right position quickly enough when the Czechs take possession. From loss of ball to goal is a fair bit of time and he's still 20+ yards of his line. There was ample time to get to around the penalty spot and if he does so then the striker doesn't even attempt the shot.

In saying all that it's still a sensational finish and a great bit of skill. He hits it quickly and in the perfect spot, a yard or 2 higher and it sails over the bar, the same lower and Marshall saves it. Great pace on the ball and right in the sweet spot. There's a reason you don't see many goals like that.

Yep .....a definite 'wow' goal when watching it.

[DH1875]

If that goal isn’t in the top 5 goals of the tournament I’ll be stunned.

See goals like that every week in the lowland league apparently 😉

[WeeRussell]

:agree:

As I said, there’s other elements of it are great. The vision to spot the opportunity is superb. I don’t think it’s a technically great goal though. Far from it.

It’s a goal that as that article says, requires so many things to fall in your favour to be able to take it on. Shearer suggests he never even had such an opportunity fall to him throughout his whole career which shows how rare it is which is why we don’t see it all that often regardless of how ‘easy’ it is technically.

I was in agreement about the keeper being at fault but hold on a second..

You’re not in the least impressed by the execution of the finish (not the sort of chance that falls to you very often) but you thought the vision was superb.. when the first thing he can see when the ball falls to him is Marshall’s arse going like the clappers 20 yds in front of him, trying to get back to his goals?

[WeeRussell]

I actually don't think Marshall starting position is the issue when Hendry has the ball and inexplicably decides to shoot with 2 5 yards passes on, one of which would have seen us in a great attacking position down the right. I quite often wandered 10-15 yards or more outside the box when my teams had the ball in that position and you'll see loads of keepers do it.

The issue is he doesn't get into the right position quickly enough when the Czechs take possession. From loss of ball to goal is a fair bit of time and he's still 20+ yards of his line. There was ample time to get to around the penalty spot and if he does so then the striker doesn't even attempt the shot.

In saying all that it's still a sensational finish and a great bit of skill. He hits it quickly and in the perfect spot, a yard or 2 higher and it sails over the bar, the same lower and Marshall saves it. Great pace on the ball and right in the sweet spot. There's a reason you don't see many goals like that.

You do often see keepers confidently hanging about at the edge of their box. But I don’t think Marshall has any excuse for being that far up the pitch when we’ve conceded a goal from it. Absolutely nothing to gain from him wondering so far and therefore will rightly feel at fault. You may be right about his running back being the bigger issue but I still can’t understand him being up there in the first place.

[hibee-boys]

It was a great strike but Marshall was not far off the centre circle when we lost possession, ridiculous position for a goalkeeper to be in.

[DH1875]

Its like when you watch a pro team doing the crossbar challenge. Most of them don't hit the goal and that's from a central position with no pressure on them.

[Lancs Harp]

I dont know if it was previous tournament experience but I thought the Czechs managed the game better. Couldnt fault Scotland for endevour but then you'd expect that. The Czechs just looked a bit more savvy to me and Scotland almost naive but maybe you would expect that as Scotland had a lot of tournament rust to shake off. On another day and bit of luck Scotland could have scored one or two today, controlling the game in midfield is vital at the top level and I thought the Czechs did a number on Scotland there. Defensively need to get smarter especially on the right, England in particularly have some very skilful wide players. Against Croatia cant afford to lose the midfield battle or Modric is still very capable of taking a team apart. Theres still hope one win presents possibility of qualifying. Thought Robertson was very good in the first half, faded a bit in the second. SJM very much in Souceks pocket.

[easty]

As posted above, another professional centre forward in Alan Shearer also said that it wasn’t technically anything special. So there’s obviously a bit of debate even between the professionals!

Shearer is a ****. He’s not the definitive opinion on what a good strike is.

If that had been Kane v Croatia he’d be calling it goal if the century.

[calumhibee1]

Its like when you watch a pro team doing the crossbar challenge. Most of them don't hit the goal and that's from a central position with no pressure on them.

They’re aiming for the crossbar. Something that is at an estimate about 5% of the size of the target the Czech guy had to hit.

[stantonhibby]

Shearer is a ****. He’s not the definitive opinion on what a good strike is.

If that had been Kane v Croatia he’d be calling it goal if the century.

Shearer said...."the genius of Patrick Schick’s special goal is the speed of thought, having the vision to look up and then to execute".....so he's not exactly playing it down.

[Lancs Harp]

Its like when you watch a pro team doing the crossbar challenge. Most of them don't hit the goal and that's from a central position with no pressure on them.

Charlie Adam famously scored for Stoke from the halfway line, Ive also personally seen him do it for Blackpool. Having said that Ive also seen him miss countless times trying the same thing. Im not with Calum on this one I think its quite a skill. Lancs Harp West lancashire League 1980-82.

[calumhibee1]

I was in agreement about the keeper being at fault but hold on a second..

You’re not in the least impressed by the execution of the finish (not the sort of chance that falls to you very often) but you thought the vision was superb.. when the first thing he can see when the ball falls to him is Marshall’s arse going like the clappers 20 yds in front of him, trying to get back to his goals?

I’m not “not in the least bit impressed” by the execution of the finish. As I said, it wouldn’t be scored more often than not. I’m not astounded by it though for the reasons I’ve suggested. Hit it high, hit the target and it’s in. The ball crossed the line about waist height in the middle of the goal. He wasn’t restricted to having to put it top bin to score. He just had to hit the target.

[DH1875]

They’re aiming for the crossbar. Something that is at an estimate about 5% of the size of the target the Czech guy had to hit.

Aye but they don't even hit the goals, back of the net most of the time.

[Pretty Boy]

You do often see keepers confidently hanging about at the edge of their box. But I don’t think Marshall has any excuse for being that far up the pitch when we’ve conceded a goal from it. Absolutely nothing to gain from him wondering so far and therefore will rightly feel at fault. You may be right about his running back being the bigger issue but I still can’t understand him being up there in the first place.

You're right. He shouldn't be that far up but 99% of the time keepers get away with it because a pass goes astray or the strikers touch is poor or he doesn't have the confidence to take it on so loads of them/us do it. It might make 1 or 2 be a bit more cautious in the games over the next few days.

He can still rectify the situation though but he doesn't really make a huge effort to get back until the ball is with Schick and he realises what he is going to do. That's a gap of maybe 2 seconds but it's a crucial 2 seconds when you look how close he gets to getting back and saving it. If he's back around the 18 yard box when Schick takes control of the ball he almost certainly doesn't attempt the shot.

[Orchard_Hibs]

If it wasn’t that hard technically to pull it off do you think dykes would have executed it had it fallen to him?

[WeeRussell]

I dont know if it was previous tournament experience but I thought the Czechs managed the game better. Couldnt fault Scotland for endevour but then you'd expect that. The Czechs just looked a bit more savvy to me and Scotland almost naive but maybe you would expect that as Scotland had a lot of tournament rust to shake off. On another day and bit of luck Scotland could have scored one or two today, controlling the game in midfield is vital at the top level and I thought the Czechs did a number on Scotland there. Defensively need to get smarter especially on the right, England in particularly have some very skilful wide players. Against Croatia cant afford to lose the midfield battle or Modric is still very capable of taking a team apart. Theres still hope one win presents possibility of qualifying. Thought Robertson was very good in the first half, faded a bit in the second. SJM very much in Souceks pocket.

Pretty sensible analysis. Although I’m surprised at so much specific criticism of McGinn today. I like to think I don’t let myself be blinkered by any hibs connections when it comes to Scotland (in fact, if anything I’d probably be guilty of going the other way to compensate!) but I thought he did alright, without it being his best ever performance. He has set pretty high standards I guess.

[calumhibee1]

If it wasn’t that hard technically to pull it off do you think dykes would have executed it had it fallen to him?

In the exact same situation where he’s running onto the ball with the goalie 35 yards out and having already spotted the keeper off his line earlier in the game? He’d have had a very good chance of it, yes.

[Peevemor]

That it was a great finish isn't in question, but he wouldn't even have thought about trying it had Marshall not been so far from his goal.

It was 100% Marshall's fault.

[Irish_Steve]

He can think that all he wants, he’s perfectly entitled to his opinion.

I personally think as I said above, it’s far more of a novelty goal than a truly great goal. Technique wise, it’s really not hugely impressive to hit the target from 50 yards when the goalie is 30 yards out imo. He was never getting back to it unless the guy floated it and as such all he had to do was hit the target.

You are correct in saying Lineker can think what he likes. However, if I had to choose which of you to listen to, I think a World Cup Golden Boot winner may slightly outrank some bloke who has played in the Lowland League a bit. Just saying, like

[calumhibee1]

You are correct in saying Lineker can think what he likes. However, if I had to choose which of you to listen to, I think a World Cup Holden Boot winner may slightly outrank so bloke who has played in the Lowland League a bit. Just saying, like

Of course.

Does he outrank Shearer who said it’s nothing special technically?

[WeeRussell]

You're right. He shouldn't be that far up but 99% of the time keepers get away with it because a pass goes astray or the strikers touch is poor or he doesn't have the confidence to take it on so loads of them/us do it. It might make 1 or 2 be a bit more cautious in the games over the next few days.

He can still rectify the situation though but he doesn't really make a huge effort to get back until the ball is with Schick and he realises what he is going to do. That's a gap of maybe 2 seconds but it's a crucial 2 seconds when you look how close he gets to getting back and saving it. If he's back around the 18 yard box when Schick takes control of the ball he almost certainly doesn't attempt the shot.

Yeah or if he does, and hits it on target, Marshall almost definitely saves it.

Can’t argue with that 👍

[B.H.F.C]

Pretty sensible analysis. Although I’m surprised at so much specific criticism of McGinn today. I like to think I don’t let myself be blinkered by any hibs connections when it comes to Scotland (in fact, if anything I’d probably be guilty of going the other way to compensate!) but I thought he did alright, without it being his best ever performance. He has set pretty high standards I guess.

I thought McGinn and McTominay were the worst of the lot today, more in the sense that I’d expect so much more from them. They’re two players playing consistently well at a high level and I just didn’t think we got anything from them. That said, I thought we lacked someone to play between them and just get on the ball to get us playing. Billy Gilmour would play at Wembley for me, but he won’t.

[WeeRussell]

That it was a great finish isn't in question, but he wouldn't even have thought about trying it had Marshall not been so far from his goal.

It was 100% Marshall's fault.

I think it’s this simple on both parts 👍

[calumhibee1]

I thought McGinn and McTominay were the worst of the lot today, more in the sense that I’d expect so much more from them. They’re two players playing consistently well at a high level and I just didn’t think we got anything from them. That said, I thought we lacked someone to play between them and just get on the ball to get us playing. Billy Gilmour would play at Wembley for me, but he won’t.

:agree:

McGinn, McTominay, Armstrong were all really poor considering the level they play at.

O’Donnell was also rank but I felt a bit sorry for him. I don’t think he’s got that much more to give and he relies on others playing well to drag him up a level.

Gilmour should have been starting and as you said, should start at Wembley as should Patterson imo. No chance they will though.

[Irish_Steve]

Of course.

Does he outrank Shearer who said it’s nothing special technically?

I thought Shearer called it a special goal because of how quickly he summed up the situation and striking the ball towards goal. Maybe I misheard Shearer

[calumhibee1]

I thought Shearer called it a special goal because of how quickly he summed up the situation and striking the ball towards goal. Maybe I misheard Shearer

As I’ve said numerous times, I’m talking purely about the technique. I’ve already said it’s great vision. He’s said that it’s not all that special technique wise as evidenced in the link provided by another poster earlier in the thread.

[Lancs Harp]

I thought McGinn and McTominay were the worst of the lot today, more in the sense that I’d expect so much more from them. They’re two players playing consistently well at a high level and I just didn’t think we got anything from them. That said, I thought we lacked someone to play between them and just get on the ball to get us playing. Billy Gilmour would play at Wembley for me, but he won’t.

I think Clarke will attempt to go very tight at Wembley. McGinn and McTominay werent allowed to play today, the Czechs game plan in midfield worked a lot better than Scotlands. You have to win in Midfield at the top table.

[Sergio sledge]

That it was a great finish isn't in question, but he wouldn't even have thought about trying it had Marshall not been so far from his goal.

It was 100% Marshall's fault.The article I linked to earlier has a different view of it:


From the goalkeeper’s perspective, you can’t help but feel sympathy for Marshall. With his team so far up the pitch pressing, it’s necessary for him to have a high line behind his defence, leaning forward and on his toes in case the opposition win the ball and push forward in a counter-attack....

....Here is where the goalkeeper’s — in this case, Marshall’s — positioning is key. His high starting position allows Scotland to press higher up the pitch and keep the field compact and as small as possible on the defensive side. If they are able to keep a high line and press the opposition, they always have someone to protect behind them: the goalkeeper.

This philosophy doesn’t come without its drawbacks, however. Overloading different areas of the pitch and pushing players further forward often leaves them with only two players (plus the goalkeeper) holding the defensive line, not to mention that open goal back there, making them vulnerable to counter-attacks. Every attempt at a reward comes with a risk, and Marshall and his team-mates got punished today.

It would be wrong to place any blame on the Scotland keeper. Rather, the credit should go to Schick for being aware of Marshall’s position and executing an incredible finish.

Marshall understands the importance of his role to his team’s system, and he’s not going to let what happened here change that, because he crucially knows that the benefits of his style of play far outweigh any potential for error.

I guess it is a case of high risk, high reward, but in the vast majority of cases the sequence of events happens slightly differently and the forward doesn't get the opportunity to score that goal and no-one notices that Marshall is playing so high.

[Andy74]

There’s a load of things need to fall in the players favour to make it possible. The ball has to break kindly to you when you’re close enough to the goals to pull it off, the keeper has to be too far off his line (probably far too far off his line, as Marshall was) and you also need to be aware of that fact.

If all those things fall into place then the technical side of launching a ball 50 yards at a target that size really isn’t all that difficult.

So that’s none then.

[Iggy Pope]

Lovely strike no question. Pace, precision, speed of thought.
Awful positioning by Marshall.
I’ve seen Lowland League players whose 50 yarders are an attempt at trapping the ball.

[Crunchie]

That it was a great finish isn't in question, but he wouldn't even have thought about trying it had Marshall not been so far from his goal.

It was 100% Marshall's fault.It was 100 per cent no such thing.

[calumhibee1]

So that’s none then.

And that’ll be the case for near enough anyone who’s ever played football.

As Shearer said, most players will never even have a sequence of events occur leading them to have the opportunity to attempt similar in their entire career.

A goal doesn’t become technically outstanding simply because most people haven’t scored a goal similar.

Dani Olmo has just switched the ball 50 yards across the pitch right onto Torres’ thigh in the Spain game right now. He hasn’t had to move. It wasn’t even worthy of a mention as it’s really not that difficult a skill at professional level. And that’s aiming at a human who also had a defender a lot closer to him than Marshall was to his goal.

The technique to do that and to score the goal are exactly the same.

[Lancs Harp]

Lovely strike no question. Pace, precision, speed of thought.
Awful positioning by Marshall.
I’ve seen Lowland League players whose 50 yarders are an attempt at trapping the ball.

:greengrin

I've done that many times.

[B.H.F.C]

It was 100 per cent no such thing.

If a goalie gets beat from 50 yards, the goalie has made a mistake.

[calumhibee1]

If a goalie gets beat from 50 yards, the goalie has made a mistake.

:agree:

[007]

That it was a great finish isn't in question, but he wouldn't even have thought about trying it had Marshall not been so far from his goal.

It was 100% Marshall's fault.


I think it’s this simple on both parts ��

Agree, it was Marshall's fault (mostly).

In his post-match interview Schick said he'd noticed in the 1st half that Marshall was coming high up the pitch so he thought it was on if he got a chance.

Though Hendry should have played the obvious pass to O'Donnell.

[Crunchie]

If a goalie gets beat from 50 yards, the goalie has made a mistake.

It doesn’t make it 100 per cent his fault though does it, why do certain people want to always moan and criticise. It was a wonder goal pure and simple.

[Peevemor]

The article I linked to earlier has a different view of it:



I guess it is a case of high risk, high reward, but in the vast majority of cases the sequence of events happens slightly differently and the forward doesn't get the opportunity to score that goal and no-one notices that Marshall is playing so high.

That was no doubt written by someone far more knowledgeable than me, but I still think Marshall was at least 10 yards too far forward which meant he was useless against anyone breaking in wide areas. Had he been a bit deeper the breaking attacker has more work to do.

Marshall's face had been saved a wee bit by the excellent finish, but it could just as easily been a hoofed hit-and-hope which bounces twice and over the keeper's head before going in. He would have looked a lot more foolish even though the mistake is the same.

[Real Emerald]

It was 100 per cent no such thing.

He was about 40 yards off his line, it’s absolutely his fault, why on Earth was he standing there?

[Peevemor]

It doesn’t make it 100 per cent his fault though does it, why do certain people want to always moan and criticise. It was a wonder goal pure and simple.Moaning and criticising isn't my thing.

[calumhibee1]

That was no doubt written by someone far more knowledgeable than me, but I still think Marshall was at least 10 yards too far forward which meant he was useless against anyone breaking in wide areas. Had he been a bit deeper the breaking attacker has more work to do.

Marshall's face had been saved a wee bit by the excellent finish, but it could just as easily been a hoofed hit-and-hope which bounces twice and over the keeper's head before going in. He would have looked a lot more foolish even though the mistake is the same.

:agree:

The logic behind what Marshall’s doing is absolutely fine.

He’s either too far forward or too slow to react though. I wouldn’t go as far as blaming him 100% as he’s so unlucky that everything has unfolded the way it has but he has to take a bit of the blame imo.

[Crunchie]

He was about 40 yards off his line, it’s absolutely his fault, why on Earth was he standing there?

You see keepers there all the time, it rarely results in a shot let alone a wonder goal.

[Peevemor]

You see keepers there all the time, it rarely results in a shot let alone a wonder goal.On the odd occasion where I see a keeper so far up the park (and his team aren't chasing the game with 2 minutes to go), I wonder what he thinks he's doing.

He was 10 yards too far forward. It's about angles/geometry.

His position invited a shot that only had to be on target to count.

[Crunchie]

:agree:

The logic behind what Marshall’s doing is absolutely fine.

He’s either too far forward or too slow to react though. I wouldn’t go as far as blaming him 100% as he’s so unlucky that everything has unfolded the way it has but he has to take a bit of the blame imo.
And that’s it in a nutshell.

[Crunchie]

On the odd occasion where I see a keeper so far up the park (and his team aren't chasing the game with 2 minutes to go), I wonder what he thinks he's doing.

He was 10 yards too far forward. It's about angles/geometry.

His position invited a shot that only had to be on target to count.
And moaning and criticising isn’t your thing, as usual we disagree.

[Iain G]

As posted above, another professional centre forward in Alan Shearer also said that it wasn’t technically anything special. So there’s obviously a bit of debate even between the professionals!

Though Shearer has said it is pure class and incredible!

[stantonhibby]

And that’ll be the case for near enough anyone who’s ever played football.

As Shearer said, most players will never even have a sequence of events occur leading them to have the opportunity to attempt similar in their entire career.

A goal doesn’t become technically outstanding simply because most people haven’t scored a goal similar.

Dani Olmo has just switched the ball 50 yards across the pitch right onto Torres’ thigh in the Spain game right now. He hasn’t had to move. It wasn’t even worthy of a mention as it’s really not that difficult a skill at professional level. And that’s aiming at a human who also had a defender a lot closer to him than Marshall was to his goal.

The technique to do that and to score the goal are exactly the same.

While Shearer does say it doesn't need any special technique he also says...."It was absolute perfection, a flawless combination of timing, technique, confidence and opportunity. Unbelievable. Gorgeous.
It’s an interlocking of instinct and skill. It’s very specia
Wow. Goal of the Tournament so far"

So I wouldn't say Shearer was exactly on the same page as you when you said it wasn't that great a finish.

[Andy74]

While Shearer does say it doesn't need any special technique he also says...."It was absolute perfection, a flawless combination of timing, technique, confidence and opportunity. Unbelievable. Gorgeous.
It’s an interlocking of instinct and skill. It’s very specia
Wow. Goal of the Tournament so far"

So I wouldn't say Shearer was exactly on the same page as you when you said it wasn't that great a finish.

He’s currently saying it is one of the all time special goals and pure class.

[Iain G]

While Shearer does say it doesn't need any special technique he also says...."It was absolute perfection, a flawless combination of timing, technique, confidence and opportunity. Unbelievable. Gorgeous.
It’s an interlocking of instinct and skill. It’s very specia
Wow. Goal of the Tournament so far"

So I wouldn't say Shearer was exactly on the same page as you when you said it wasn't that great a finish.

Maybe they score more 50 yarders in the lowland league than in the premier League?! 🤣

[stantonhibby]

He’s currently saying it is one of the all time special goals and pure class.

Not a novelty goal then?

[Andy74]

Maybe they score more 50 yarders in the lowland league than in the premier League?! 🤣

Cesc Fabregas also now saying how difficult the technique was. Don’t think he played Lowland League though.

[Irish_Steve]

He’s currently saying it is one of the all time special goals and pure class.

Yip, Fabregas has just said the technique was incredible but could Cesc do that in the Lowland League, that’s the big question

[Lago]

Though Shearer has said it is pure class and incredible!
Yip tonight's analysis from them all of the opinion that it was difficult and great goal.

[Magpie]

The composure to pull that off in a game with such magnitude is impressive.

[DH1875]

Someone should remind Shearer about his earlier comments lol.

[calumhibee1]

While Shearer does say it doesn't need any special technique he also says...."It was absolute perfection, a flawless combination of timing, technique, confidence and opportunity. Unbelievable. Gorgeous.
It’s an interlocking of instinct and skill. It’s very specia
Wow. Goal of the Tournament so far"

So I wouldn't say Shearer was exactly on the same page as you when you said it wasn't that great a finish.

So when he’s talking about purely the technique which is what I’m talking about, he says it doesn’t take any special technique.

I’ve not been discussing the goal as a whole, as I’ve said numerous times. I’ve also said numerous times he’s shown great vision to see the opportunity.

As I said earlier in the thread, what part of the technique required for that goal was particularly difficult?

[Irish_Steve]

So when he’s talking about purely the technique which is what I’m talking about, he says it doesn’t take any special technique.

I’ve not been discussing the goal as a whole, as I’ve said numerous times.

As I said earlier in the thread, what part of the technique required for that goal was particularly difficult?

Didn’t you hear what Fabregas said?? Cesc said because the ball was moving away from him and not towards him that the technique was incredible

[DH1875]

So when he’s talking about purely the technique which is what I’m talking about, he says it doesn’t take any special technique.

I’ve not been discussing the goal as a whole, as I’ve said numerous times. I’ve also said numerous times he’s shown great vision to see the opportunity.

As I said earlier in the thread, what part of the technique required for that goal was particularly difficult?

Did you see/hear what he's just said on TV about the goal?

[calumhibee1]

Didn’t you hear what Fabregas said?? Cesc said because the ball was moving away from him and not towards him that the technique was incredible

The ball is more often than not moving away from a player. Unless you’re doing something first time then that’s exactly the way the ball will be moving.

As I said above, Olmo sent a 50 yard switch the width of the pitch bang onto Torres’ knee without him moving. A significantly smaller target and the ball was moving away from him then as well. Nothing was made of it because it’s really not all that impressive.

[Peevemor]

And moaning and criticising isn’t your thing, as usual we disagree.What's the point in dragging stuff from political threads onto here? Are you trolling me?

[Irish_Steve]

The ball is more often than not moving away from a player. Unless you’re doing something first time then that’s exactly the way the ball will be moving.
So when one player passes the ball to another player, the ball is moving away from the second player? I admire your tenacity in saying it wasn’t technically difficult despite what World Cup winners say but maybe it’s time to admit you are wrong

[calumhibee1]

So when one player passes the ball to another player, the ball is moving away from the second player? I admire your tenacity in saying it wasn’t technically difficult despite what World Cup winners say but maybe it’s time to admit you are wrong

When you’re striking the ball, the ball is nearly always moving away from you unless you’re striking it first time. To suggest it suddenly becomes difficult to strike a football when it’s rolling away from you is nonsense. Infact it’s infinitely more difficult to cleanly hit a ball rolling towards you than it is a ball rolling away from you. Hence why so many first time shots end up miles off target.

[Kato]

Enough waffle on here to keep Birds Eye in business for decades.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Irish_Steve]

When you’re striking the ball, the ball is nearly always moving away from you unless you’re striking it first time. To suggest it suddenly becomes difficult to strike a football when it’s rolling away from you is nonsense. Infact it’s infinitely more difficult to cleanly hit a ball rolling towards you than it is a ball rolling away from you.

You must have played a different game to me

[stantonhibby]

So when he’s talking about purely the technique which is what I’m talking about, he says it doesn’t take any special technique.

I’ve not been discussing the goal as a whole, as I’ve said numerous times. I’ve also said numerous times he’s shown great vision to see the opportunity.

As I said earlier in the thread, what part of the technique required for that goal was particularly difficult?

You seem to be hanging your hat on that 1 line about it not needing a special technique and ignoring all the other supetlatives that Shearer lavishes on it. Do you still think it's not that great a finish?

[calumhibee1]

You must have played a different game to me

It would seem so.

[Irish_Steve]

When you’re striking the ball, the ball is nearly always moving away from you unless you’re striking it first time. To suggest it suddenly becomes difficult to strike a football when it’s rolling away from you is nonsense. Infact it’s infinitely more difficult to cleanly hit a ball rolling towards you than it is a ball rolling away from you. Hence why so many first time shots end up miles off target.

So are you actually saying that Cesc Fabregas is talking nonsense as it was him who said the technique was incredible as the ball was moving away

[calumhibee1]

You seem to be hanging your hat on that 1 line about it not needing a special technique and ignoring all the other supetlatives that Shearer lavishes on it. Do you still think it's not that great a finish?

Shearers other superlatives are mainly based around things other than technique. When he specifically mentions the technique, he quite rightly points out that it’s nothing special.

[Real Emerald]

You see keepers there all the time, it rarely results in a shot let alone a wonder goal.

He’s way too far off his line and there is no reason at all he should be there. It’s an unbelievable strike but why is the keeper almost in the centre circle? It’s so typical it had to happen to Scotland though.

[Hiber-nation]

When you’re striking the ball, the ball is nearly always moving away from you unless you’re striking it first time.

Fabregas clearly doesn't know much about the art of striking a football then. OK.

[calumhibee1]

So are you actually saying that Cesc Fabregas is talking nonsense as it was him who said the technique was incredible as the ball was moving away

That is exactly what I’m saying. Players will run onto a ball in the same way the Czech boy was god knows how many times a game after taking a touch when receiving the ball.

If the most difficult thing about that goal was that the ball was ‘moving away’ from him then it really says it all. It sat perfectly for him.

That logic would suggest that this goal was infinitely easier to finish because the ball wasn’t moving away from him and was Infact moving towards him:

https://youtu.be/nRQRyrg7Xxw

[Irish_Steve]

Fabregas clearly doesn't know much about the art of striking a football then. OK.

To be fair, Cesc has never scored a goal like that on a winter’s night at Gala Fairydean

[Andy74]

Shearers other superlatives are mainly based around things other than technique. When he specifically mentions the technique, he quite rightly points out that it’s nothing special.

You’re just getting deeper in trouble here. You’re wrong on all counts and some top class players are confirming that.

[Hiber-nation]

To be fair, Cesc has never scored a goal like that on a winter’s night at Gala Fairydean

:greengrin

[calumhibee1]

You’re just getting deeper in trouble here. You’re wrong on all counts and some top class players are confirming that.

In trouble? :faf:

Football is a game of opinions pal. There’s no right or wrong.

[B.H.F.C]

You see keepers there all the time, it rarely results in a shot let alone a wonder goal.

No you don’t. If keepers positioned themselves like that all the time, you’d see people attempt to shoot from that type of position all the time. You rarely see a shot from that type of position, never mind a goal.

[Irish_Steve]

That is exactly what I’m saying. Players will run onto a ball in the same way the Czech boy was god knows how many times a game after taking a touch when receiving the ball.

If the most difficult thing about that goal was that the ball was ‘moving away’ from him then it really says it all. It sat perfectly for him.

Double European Championship winner and a World Cup Winner doesn’t know as much as some bloke who played in the Lowland League lol

[h1bs4life]

Czech coach got it right won the midfield , Mcginn never got a kick of the ball. We had our chances and never took them , they did ,just seen the 2nd goal again don't know why Marshall was so far out but the Czech striker took it well.
O'Donnel was poor from his 1st attempt to control the ball and kicked it out , his tackle on Christie summed his performance up .
No idea why we started with Christie and Dykes up front . Dykes isn't an international player , Colin Nish with dyed blond hair.
I don't get this give Stuart Armstrong a game all I can remember him for is not clearing properly against England at Hampden.
Changes required for Friday although I can't see Clarke doing anything adventurous , would give the stickies right back and Gilmour a game
You never know we might give the English a run for there money.

[calumhibee1]

Double European Championship winner and a World Cup Winner doesn’t know as much as some bloke who played in the Lowland League lol

https://youtu.be/nRQRyrg7Xxw

Double European Championship and World Cup Winners logic would suggest that the goal today was technically more impressive than this one

Turn on the game right now and tell me that the ball isn’t nearly always rolling away from the players when they strike it. I’ve just counted 10 passes in a row where that’s been the case.

To suggest that it’s difficult to strike a ball that’s ‘moving away’ from you is absolute nonsense regardless of what Cesc Fabregas has won.

[Wakeyhibee]

St Johnstone or Motherwell (with fillers) would have done better. Cant understand what the friendlies were about when you pick that team. Totally inept, unsure of the gameplan or how to execute it.

Cant blame individuals necessarily they are told to play that way. I cant believe Steve Clarke got it SO wrong against a Czech side who are good but not excellent.

We were undone by ourselves, no one else.

[blackpoolhibs]

Cesc Fabregas also now saying how difficult the technique was. Don’t think he played Lowland League though.

Aye but could he do it on a cold Tuesday night against Dalbeattie star?

[Irish_Steve]

https://youtu.be/nRQRyrg7Xxw

Double European Championship and World Cup Winners logic would suggest that the goal today was technically more impressive than this one

Turn on the game right now and tell me that the ball isn’t nearly always rolling away from the players when they strike it. I’ve just counted 10 passes in a row where that’s been the case.

Im just pointing out that Cesc said it is easier to hit the ball when it comes towards you and i think you have to agree that he knows more about football than you and me

And i am watching the game and equally have seen 10 passes in a row where the ball is played towards a player

[calumhibee1]

Im just pointing out that Cesc said it is easier to hit the ball when it comes towards you and i think you have to agree that he knows more about football than you and me

And i am watching the game and equally have seen 10 passes in a row where the ball is played towards a player

I’m not quite following the relevance of the fact that people pass the ball towards other players and I’m now not even sure we’re debating the same thing :confused:

[cannastar]

Think when this is over it may be time to sound out Shaun Maloney currently a coach at one of the best sides in europe to see if he would be interested in trying to revive our current national squad, at least he may be able to inject a bit of life into the sluggish carachters we had on the pitch today. Dont think he would be afraid to let gilmour or patterson loose as they are what we must be looking at as our future.

[Irish_Steve]

I’m not quite following the relevance of the fact that people pass the ball towards other players and I’m now not even sure we’re debating the same thing :confused:

Thereby contradicting what you just said!

You are playing a blinder here - “tis but a scratch” lol

[Lancs Harp]

Think when this is over it may be time to sound out Shaun Maloney currently a coach at one of the best sides in europe to see if he would be interested in trying to revive our current national squad, at least he may be able to inject a bit of life into the sluggish carachters we had on the pitch today. Dont think he would be afraid to let gilmour or patterson loose as they are what we must be looking at as our future.

Dont forget though this is progression. First tournament this century if nothing else its something to build on for future events and its not over yet two cracking games to come, one obviously against England. Much to look forward to yet in this tournament and Scotland are part of it.

[Irish_Steve]

I’m not quite following the relevance of the fact that people pass the ball towards other players and I’m now not even sure we’re debating the same thing :confused:

I wasnt the only one who heard Cesc say it, a few million others heard it too

[calumhibee1]

Thereby contradicting what you just said!

You are playing a blinder here - “tis but a scratch” lol

If what Cesc said was true then the game would be played at a ridiculous pace with everything being one touch. Of course that’s not how the games played because that would be infinitely more difficult than taking a touch and having the ball roll away from you before you strike it.

The overwhelming majority of times the players are striking the ball in football they’re striking it with the ball moving away from them. Not rolling towards them. There’s a reason for that.

Anyway, I think we’ve taken the thread of on enough of a tangent!

[Kato]

If what Cesc said was true then the game would be played at a ridiculous pace with everything being one touch. Of course that’s not how the games played because that would be infinitely more difficult than taking a touch and having the ball roll away from you before you strike it.

The overwhelming majority of times the players are striking the ball in football they’re striking it with the ball moving away from them. Not rolling towards them. There’s a reason for that.

Anyway, I think we’ve taken the thread of on enough of a tangent!If by tangent you mean a weird parallel universe, aye.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Just_Jimmy]

regardless, what an utterly pish goal to concede.

Hendry slip it wide, no goal.
Marshall get back in your box. no goal.

the first goal was pish from us as well.



Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[B.H.F.C]

Dont forget though this is progression. First tournament this century if nothing else its something to build on for future events and its not over yet two cracking games to come, one obviously against England. Much to look forward to yet in this tournament and Scotland are part of it.

It isn’t over yet but we need to take something at Wembley which is really unlikely IMO. I think England will be desperate to slaughter us now.

I didn’t give a toss about how we qualified and was probably guilty of getting caught up in the hype leading up to the tournament. However, we’ve been poor since qualifying. Blew the Nations League games right after the Play Off and had a poor start to World Cup qualifying.

Missing Tierney today was huge, the best thing Clarke had done is work out how to get him and Robertson playing together. That aside I’m still not sure he’s the man to get the most from this team.

[Dr_Regal]

regardless, what an utterly pish goal to concede.

Hendry slip it wide, no goal.
Marshall get back in your box. no goal.

the first goal was pish from us as well.



Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

Hanley won every ball in the air today apart from the most important one. I dont get it, he was right there jumped perfectly and just missed it.

[Wakeyhibee]

Dont forget though this is progression. First tournament this century if nothing else its something to build on for future events and its not over yet two cracking games to come, one obviously against England. Much to look forward to yet in this tournament and Scotland are part of it.

I would love a pint of what you're drinking, if Scotland play that way again they will get horsed by England and beat comfortably by Croatia.

When your captain is telling the team to calm down 20 mins into the game, you know all is not well. Play like this and it could be the last tournament my lifetime.

Thing is there is enough talent there to do a damn site better.

***woosh moment maybe***

[calumhibee1]

I would love a pint of what you're drinking, if Scotland play that way again they will get horsed by England and beat comfortably by Croatia.

When your captain is telling the team to calm down 20 mins into the game, you know all is not well. Play like this and it could be the last tournament my lifetime.

Thing is there is enough talent there to do a damn site better.

:agree:

If today is anything to go by then I’d expect we’ll be going out with 3 defeats and 0 goals scored.

[Lancs Harp]

I would love a pint of what you're drinking, if Scotland play that way again they will get horsed by England and beat comfortably by Croatia.

When your captain is telling the team to calm down 20 mins into the game, you know all is not well. Play like this and it could be the last tournament my lifetime.

Thing is there is enough talent there to do a damn site better.

Its still a major progression though fella, Scotland are actually in the tournament even though it might be a massive learning curve. Big game on Friday and Im looking forward to it, every England Scotland game is an occasion. Personally I hope you lose obviously :greengrin but you never know.

[Iain G]

I’m not quite following the relevance of the fact that people pass the ball towards other players and I’m now not even sure we’re debating the same thing :confused:

You said the goal was pish, everyone else thinks it's not pish, including some pretty good footballers!

[calumhibee1]

You said the goal was pish, everyone else thinks it's not pish, including some pretty good footballers!

Did I? :confused:

[Iain G]

Did I? :confused:

Well it's more pish than the rest of us think it is then 🤣

Oh and Huw Edwards has said it's a spectacular goal so case closed 😁

[Wakeyhibee]

Its still a major progression though fella, Scotland are actually in the tournament even though it might be a massive learning curve. Big game on Friday and Im looking forward to it, every England Scotland game is an occasion. Personally I hope you lose obviously :greengrin but you never know.

I think your pint of wonder juice is safe. It's not progression to scrape through after 23years and not perform against the best chance of points in the group. It is literally pointless qualifying if that's all you can muster.

[Irish_Steve]

Well it's more pish than the rest of us think it is then 🤣

Oh and Huw Edwards has said it's a spectacular goal so case closed 😁

To be fair, Calum said it wasnt a technically difficult goal to score. But just about everyone else in the footballing world disagreed with him lol

[Iain G]

To be fair, Calum said it wasnt a technically difficult goal to score. But just about everyone else in the footballing world disagreed with him lol

I was summarising 😁

[Crunchie]

What's the point in dragging stuff from political threads onto here? Are you trolling me?
:faf: wtf are you on about? I'd peev less if I were you and don't flatter yourself.

[Wakeyhibee]

:agree:

If today is anything to go by then I’d expect we’ll be going out with 3 defeats and 0 goals scored.

I dont mind 3 defeats, it's the manor of those defeats & the talents we do have, which today weren't deployed.

[WeeRussell]

Hate to kick off this ridiculous debate again.. but having calmed down from the game and watched the highlights, it’s an even better strike than what I first thought. Marshall is struggling to find the ball in the air as he’s skelped it with that much movement and precision. It’s brilliant technique and the class finishing of both goals ended up being the difference.

I’m still firmly of the belief that Marshall should never have been up in the stand and allowed it to be a chance though.

Also, it was actually a pretty good game when you look at the chances for both teams and some of the saves made by both keepers. Didn’t feel that great at the time right enough.

Oh. And I’ve scored from that range at amateur level. Keeper was in his box. Where this leaves the argument I’ve nae idea 👍

[neil7908]

Just back from the game. Really disappointed when I saw the line up and as expected, it was a very cautious, negative start to the game.

Not quite Levein 4-6-0 territory but not far off. Very little attacking intent which is so disappointing given we're at home in what is pretty much a must win game.

I long for the day we see a Scotland manager actually set up to win a game with an attacking, positive formation.

[Real Emerald]

You see keepers there all the time, it rarely results in a shot let alone a wonder goal.

He’s way too far off his line and there is no reason at all he should be there. It’s an unbelievable strike but why is the keeper almost in the centre circle? It’s so typical it had to happen to Scotland though.

[Smartie]

I would love a pint of what you're drinking, if Scotland play that way again they will get horsed by England and beat comfortably by Croatia.

When your captain is telling the team to calm down 20 mins into the game, you know all is not well. Play like this and it could be the last tournament my lifetime.

Thing is there is enough talent there to do a damn site better.

***woosh moment maybe***

This is the bit that irritates me.

There's been a serious lack of quality for a very long time but not any more.

Today we were unlucky to be missing Tierney but chose to overlook some quality in favour of the type of workhorses who have consistently failed to even get us to finals' let alone make any mark once there.

[mcohibs]

Late to this thread but surely there's not a debate about whether that was a good finish or not 😂 was unreal

[neil7908]

This is the bit that irritates me.

There's been a serious lack of quality for a very long time but not any more.

Today we were unlucky to be missing Tierney but chose to overlook some quality in favour of the type of workhorses who have consistently failed to even get us to finals' let alone make any mark once there.

Yup. I get loyalty to players that got us here but today it felt like that was at the expense of fielding our best team. Christie, McGregor and Forrest have all had a poor season. Ditto O'Donnell and Dykes.

[Lancs Harp]

Late to this thread but surely there's not a debate about whether that was a good finish or not 😂 was unreal

Depends whether you've played in the Lowland League or not. :greengrin

[Smartie]

Hate to kick off this ridiculous debate again.. but having calmed down from the game and watched the highlights, it’s an even better strike than what I first thought. Marshall is struggling to find the ball in the air as he’s skelped it with that much movement and precision. It’s brilliant technique and the class finishing of both goals ended up being the difference.

I’m still firmly of the belief that Marshall should never have been up in the stand and allowed it to be a chance though.

Also, it was actually a pretty good game when you look at the chances for both teams and some of the saves made by both keepers. Didn’t feel that great at the time right enough.

Oh. And I’ve scored from that range at amateur level. Keeper was in his box. Where this leaves the argument I’ve nae idea 👍

It was only once I saw the view of it from behind the goal that I truly appreciated how good a strike it was.

Yes, there was fault on the part of a few Scots leading up to the goal but imo the Czechs deserves huge credit for the way they turned Hendry being in possession deep inside their half into a goal for them within just a matter of seconds.

[ballengeich]

To be fair, Calum said it wasnt a technically difficult goal to score. But just about everyone else in the footballing world disagreed with him lol
I recall Pele trying the same thing and missing in the 1970 World Cup.

[calumhibee1]

Late to this thread but surely there's not a debate about whether that was a good finish or not 😂 was unreal

No, there’s not really. The debate is whether it was an unreal finish as you’ve suggested or not.

As usual on here though, it becomes black and white and if something isn’t unreal then it must be pish as it was suggested I had called it a few posts back.

In reality my opinion is that he’s done brilliantly to have the vision to see the opportunity and executed what was a moderately difficult chance bearing in mind how far out Marshall was and how well the ball broke for the guy.

[DH1875]

Late to this thread but surely there's not a debate about whether that was a good finish or not 😂 was unreal

Lowland league stuff apparently 🤔

[Lancs Harp]

I recall Pele trying the same thing and missing in the 1970 World Cup.

Indeed mate , wonderful moment, although the keepers starting position was a lot nearer to his own goal line.:wink:

[calumhibee1]

Lowland league stuff apparently 🤔

No matter how many times you repeat it it’ll never be something that has genuinely been suggested by anyone on this thread.

[Fergus52]

I would love a pint of what you're drinking, if Scotland play that way again they will get horsed by England and beat comfortably by Croatia.

When your captain is telling the team to calm down 20 mins into the game, you know all is not well. Play like this and it could be the last tournament my lifetime.

Thing is there is enough talent there to do a damn site better.

***woosh moment maybe***

I don't think we played that badly.

Too defensive for my liking but we still created enough chances to win the game. Their second goal was a great hit but also quite a fluke.

[660]

I recall Pele trying the same thing and missing in the 1970 World Cup.

To be fair did Pele ever score in the lowland league? I believe not case closed.

[DH1875]

To be fair did Pele ever score in the lowland league? I believe not case closed.

No matter how many times you repeat it it’ll never be something that has genuinely been suggested by anyone on this thread.

😎

[northstandhibby]

It was a thing of beauty. Schick had already decided what he was going to attempt if the opportunity arrived and delivered it first time. Most players couldn't pull it off after umpteen practice tries never mind in real match time. The keeper played his part in it but Schick deserves all the plaudits as it was football magic.

[ShinyFantastic]

Was at the game today, 9847 announced as attendance, really? Seemed like so much more, atmosphere was brilliant, we were up for it… Pity the players packed it in

[Baader]

Absolute madness that Marshall was so far out his goal. Hell of a strike with the ball going wide when he hits it but a keeper on the edge of the box at the time we lose possession saves it.

[Bangkok Hibby]

That could never be the case for me. I'm still angry about the cup final but I'm over a Scotland defeat pretty much as soon as the final whistle goes. Hibs run through the blood but international games like today have always struck me as more of a one-off jolly where a lot of people who otherwise don't have much interest can join in and become football fans for the day. All good fun but not worth agonising over. Hibs provide more than enough agony for me to be going on with!


That's really well put and pretty much how I feel.
I watched every Hibs game this season, with many kick offs 02.30am over here. I'm so underwhelmed by the Scottish international side I don't even watch the games. The most interesting thing for me was how many people thought Scotland would win 🤔

[TheHibernator]

Stephen O’Donnell is the worst player in that squad, repeat my earlier suggestion that Paul mcginn is hard done by to not be selected and only hasn’t because he didn’t play for Kilmarnock under Steve Clarke

[mcohibs]

That's really well put and pretty much how I feel.
I watched every Hibs game this season, with many kick offs 02.30am over here. I'm so underwhelmed by the Scottish international side I don't even watch the games. The most interesting thing for me was how many people thought Scotland would win 🤔

Each to their own but how can you not get excited about your national side playing in a major competition for the first time in a generation? I was as buzzing yesterday for the game as I have been for many a Hibs game and I'll be the same when Friday rolls round.

We had a very good chance of winning that game yesterday. Be as well packing in football if you can't get up for occasions like that.

[MWHIBBIES]

Stephen O’Donnell is the worst player in that squad, repeat my earlier suggestion that Paul mcginn is hard done by to not be selected and only hasn’t because he didn’t play for Kilmarnock under Steve Clarke

Paul Mcginn has never played right wing back as far as I know. I'm not sure he would do much better.

[Stairway 2 7]

Paul Mcginn has never played right wing back as far as I know. I'm not sure he would do much better.

I would do better and so would you and I've never met you

[Jones28]

Stephen O’Donnell is the worst player in that squad, repeat my earlier suggestion that Paul mcginn is hard done by to not be selected and only hasn’t because he didn’t play for Kilmarnock under Steve Clarke

Paul McGinn is a dependable, solid Scottish premiership right back, he is nowhere near the quality needed to play at an international tournament.

O’Donnell might well be the worst player in the squad, but he wasn’t culpable for any of the problems yesterday and he was a good out ball when the Czechs pressed our back line in to playing it back to Marshall.

[Onion]

Was at the game today, 9847 announced as attendance, really? Seemed like so much more, atmosphere was brilliant, we were up for it… Pity the players packed it in

Interesting, BBC pundits said the very opposite. Fans went missing after the 2nd goal :confused:

[easty]

Interesting, BBC pundits said the very opposite. Fans went missing after the 2nd goal :confused:

That was Fletcher after the game, I thought he was out of order at the time. I thought the noise from the fans, considering how few were there too, was good.

[easty]

Stephen O’Donnell is the worst player in that squad, repeat my earlier suggestion that Paul mcginn is hard done by to not be selected and only hasn’t because he didn’t play for Kilmarnock under Steve Clarke

I don’t think there’s much between the 2 of them, neither are good enough for Scotland.

[Bangkok Hibby]

Each to their own but how can you not get excited about your national side playing in a major competition for the first time in a generation? I was as buzzing yesterday for the game as I have been for many a Hibs game and I'll be the same when Friday rolls round.

We had a very good chance of winning that game yesterday. Be as well packing in football if you can't get up for occasions like that.

With respect that's nonsense. At least where I'm concerned. Don't know how old you are but you sound like my son...and that's perfectly OK. I remember all the Scottish sides with really class players even though as a team they underperformed. Years of failure deadens the enthusiasm though. If your age puts you in a category where this is an accomplishment then good on you, Scotland needs fans like you. For me and plenty others my age we're a bit beaten and broken with it all.

Just as an afterthought....you'll never hear me slagging the team or individual players like many so called fans. I know their level and expect nothing.

[jacomo]

Stephen O’Donnell is the worst player in that squad, repeat my earlier suggestion that Paul mcginn is hard done by to not be selected and only hasn’t because he didn’t play for Kilmarnock under Steve Clarke


I don’t mind managers having players that they trust to do a job.

Unfortunately O’Donnell absolutely failed to repay that trust yesterday. He looked so far out of his depth… him tackling Christie was even more embarrassing than the second goal imo.

[Colr]

It was a thing of beauty. Schick had already decided what he was going to attempt if the opportunity arrived and delivered it first time. Most players couldn't pull it off after umpteen practice tries never mind in real match time. The keeper played his part in it but Schick deserves all the plaudits as it was football magic.

WTF was Marshall doing so far forward? What the hell did he hope to achieve from that position except leaving his goal wide open? Even without a great lob, they might have beaten him from a number of break positions in a number of ways. Keeper should never have been far from his box.

[Since90+2]

That was our chance to progress yesterday and we blew it.

England will beat us comfortably without breaking sweat and then the Croats will win a rather drab game at Hampden, probably 2-0.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we don't score a goal let alone get a point.

[Mutu]

Thoughts on the game is that we've played much worse recently and won. This was a step up against a side with good experience who weren't going to crumble under a bit of sustained pressure. We played well for large period of the game, created more than enough chances to win the game and ultimately paid the price for our lack of finishing.

If this game came 2nd or 3rd in the group our nerves might have settled and we would have been in a much better place to beat a team like the Czechs.

Team selection aside which was clearly not right, I thought it was a necessary learning experience for that squad of players. They will be better for it in the years to come. Building an international team takes time (see England) so I hope Clarke sticks around for the forseeable.

P.S. We probably win that game with Tierney.

[Colr]

That was our chance to progress yesterday and we blew it.

England will beat us comfortably without breaking sweat and then the Croats will win a rather drab game at Hampden, probably 2-0.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we don't score a goal let alone get a point.

That was my prediction at the outset.

I expect nothing….and receive it in abundance!

[Key West]

Saw the highlights I don't agree with SC that there was little between the teams, they also had plenty of chances.
What's really disappointing is that you get the feeling that the likes of Wales would have got a better result, for the first game it was far too open.

[J-C]

I don’t mind managers having players that they trust to do a job.

Unfortunately O’Donnell absolutely failed to repay that trust yesterday. He looked so far out of his depth… him tackling Christie was even more embarrassing than the second goal imo.

Can't remember who was commentating but he said as a wingback playing with a player in front if him who naturally cuts inside onto his stronger left foot, it was poor decision making from O'Donnell, he should be looking to show on the outside.

[calumhibee1]

I don’t mind managers having players that they trust to do a job.

Unfortunately O’Donnell absolutely failed to repay that trust yesterday. He looked so far out of his depth… him tackling Christie was even more embarrassing than the second goal imo.

:agree:

Patterson should be in for the last 2 games. As should gilmour.

[Moulin Yarns]

I'm pretty sure he was on the edge of the centre circle not his box.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/57475435

This shows where he was when.

Marshall is about 15m from the halfway line when Hendry tries the shot and turns to start running back and is at the penalty box when the shot is hit.

I think the problem was he had to keep an eye on the ball while still knowing where the goal is.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Just listening to the BBC radio breakfast show - someone
tweeted in saying that it was an easy open goal and the studio hust started laughing. Some of them have played international football and won the Premiership.

[CentreLine]

As posted above, another professional centre forward in Alan Shearer also said that it wasn’t technically anything special. So there’s obviously a bit of debate even between the professionals!

I’m with you CalumH. It’s a shot to nothing because our keeper handed him the opportunity on a plate. If he misses the target it’s no big deal. Czech R are already a goal up so a goal at this stage seals the game. Miss and they’re still in control. No pressure on the striker but if it goes in people talk about it fir years to come.
Marshall is a top keeper but I’ve noticed this tendency of his to wander up the park every game. Nothing new in the habit and opposition coaches must see that too.

[JimBHibees]

Can't remember who was commentating but he said as a wingback playing with a player in front if him who naturally cuts inside onto his stronger left foot, it was poor decision making from O'Donnell, he should be looking to show on the outside.

I had absolutely no idea what O'Donnell was thinking there. Was pretty clear the sort of movement Christie does in that position to take his space was ridiculous as was bringing a Czech player into that area also. Should have completely stayed out or stayed wide to give Christie an option back to run inside was bizarre. I would personally play Forrest in his position on Friday.

[Broken Gnome]

It's very different pinging a 50 yard pass to someone compared to trying to score, the two don't really compare.

Plus it's not as simple as just hitting the target. If you take the still from where the ball crosses the line, he's having to pitch the ball - at pace - between the bar and where Marshall ends up. There's hardly any margin for error from 50 yards.

[StevieT]

I recall Pele trying the same thing and missing in the 1970 World Cup.

Aye, but that was with a real football, not one of the fly aways they use now.

[Stuart93]

Adams needs to start over Dykes. Gave us a bit of lift when he first came into the side but he’s just not very good. A poor finisher

[calumhibee1]

Adams needs to start over Dykes. Gave us a bit of lift when he first came into the side but he’s just not very good. A poor finisher

Agree. Dykes isn’t up to it.

There should be a lot of changes for the next game.

[Peevemor]

It's very different pinging a 50 yard pass to someone compared to trying to score, the two don't really compare.

Plus it's not as simple as just hitting the target. If you take the still from where the ball crosses the line, he's having to pitch the ball - at pace - between the bar and where Marshall ends up. There's hardly any margin for error from 50 yards.

You don't have to have brilliant technique or plan exactly what you're doing to beat a keeper who's off his line.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ4o4_c-ODE

[mcohibs]

With respect that's nonsense. At least where I'm concerned. Don't know how old you are but you sound like my son...and that's perfectly OK. I remember all the Scottish sides with really class players even though as a team they underperformed. Years of failure deadens the enthusiasm though. If your age puts you in a category where this is an accomplishment then good on you, Scotland needs fans like you. For me and plenty others my age we're a bit beaten and broken with it all.

Just as an afterthought....you'll never hear me slagging the team or individual players like many so called fans. I know their level and expect nothing.

Not sure the condescending 'how old are you' stuff is necessary or relevant to be honest. Nor do I see why you would assume I was younger than yourself based on my original post. In answer to your question though I'm old enough to have seen us play in a major tournament before, hence the excitement at this one coming around after such a long absence.

My point was that I don't understand how any Scottish football fan couldn't have been enthusiastic, hopeful, excited, anxious, nervous etc. about yesterday's game. The majority of the country experienced these emotions yesterday, some with only a passing interest in the sport. So I find it odd when I come across Scottish football fans who have a 'disassociation' with the national team. It's something I encounter every now and then and honestly can't get my head around it. Each to their own though, as I say.

Out of interest, have you never been 'beaten and broken' by watching Hibs over the years? Or is it just the national team that you've got fed up with?

[Hibrandenburg]

First comment after watching that at home with a bunch of German friends.

Our build up from the back was reminiscent of World Cup tactics from the 1970's. Slow and laborious trying to pull the Czechs out of position. We missed Tierney and the ability to take the game to them at pace from defence.

Off the ball movement was non existent at times with little or no noticeable difference between our formation with or without the ball.

We're at a similar level of ability as the Czechs, they were just much better organised.

The first goal was due to them winning one aerial battle in the box, it happens.

The 2nd goal was a fantastic opportunistic effort. The blistering speed at the change of play direction was caused by a shot being deflected back behind our defensive line and falling at the feet of a player who had already noticed Marshall well out of position and knew what he'd do if the opportunity presented itself. It was the perfect storm and credit has to go to Schick for his foresight and execution of the goal as well as criticism for Marshall for being so far forward. It would be interesting to hear if Marshall's position was his own idea or the manager's.

Summary:

We're nowhere near as good as some appeared to think we are.

The scene is now set for the usual heroic finally, where we get sent home for failing to do the easy bit but nearly achieve the impossible.

[Bangkok Hibby]

Not sure the condescending 'how old are you' stuff is necessary or relevant to be honest. Nor do I see why you would assume I was younger than yourself based on my original post. In answer to your question though I'm old enough to have seen us play in a major tournament before, hence the excitement at this one coming around after such a long absence.

My point was that I don't understand how any Scottish football fan couldn't have been enthusiastic, hopeful, excited, anxious, nervous etc. about yesterday's game. The majority of the country experienced these emotions yesterday, some with only a passing interest in the sport. So I find it odd when I come across Scottish football fans who have a 'disassociation' with the national team. It's something I encounter every now and then and honestly can't get my head around it. Each to their own though, as I say.

Out of interest, have you never been 'beaten and broken' by watching Hibs over the years? Or is it just the national team that you've got fed up with?

Indeed each to their own. Unsure how you feel I was condescending as I was trying to answer you honestly. Please read again, I didn't ask how old you were but I did say you sound like my son. Of course you could be any age to agree with him.

We've all been let down by Hibs but for me (a wee laddie from Leith) the feelings run much deeper.

[Sylar]

First comment after watching that at home with a bunch of German friends.

Our build up from the back was reminiscent of World Cup tactics from the 1970's. Slow and laborious trying to pull the Czechs out of position. We missed Tierney and the ability to take the game to them at pace from defence.

Off the ball movement was non existent at times with little or no noticeable difference between our formation with or without the ball.

We're at a similar level of ability as the Czechs, they were just much better organised.

The first goal was due to them winning one aerial battle in the box, it happens.

The 2nd goal was a fantastic opportunistic effort. The blistering speed at the change of play direction was caused by a shot being deflected back behind our defensive line and falling at the feet of a player who had already noticed Marshall well out of position and knew what he'd do if the opportunity presented itself. It was the perfect storm and credit has to go to Schick for his foresight and execution of the goal as well as criticism for Marshall for being so far forward. It would be interesting to hear if Marshall's position was his own idea or the manager's.

Summary:

We're nowhere near as good as some appeared to think we are.

The scene is now set for the usual heroic finally, where we get sent home for failing to do the easy bit but nearly achieve the impossible.

I honestly don't know how many Scotland fans genuinely think we're that good.

Getting to these finals papered over a lot the failings and inadequacies that we've seen around Clarke's teams and setups. He's been exposed big-time yesterday by (as you say) a vastly superior organised unit in the Czechs.

We might have a bunch of Premier League players who have performed well individually this year, but Clarke doesn't know how to put them together into a useful side - against lower level opposition, he's gotten away with that but on this stage, he's going to see those sides struggle.

His persistent reliance on 'tried and tested' players is going to be our downfall - we should have seen the likes of Patterson, Gilmour, Turnbull, Adams (from the start), who are form players, given the chance to go and do something. Instead, Clarke sent out a team to 'hold our own' and try and steal a goal.

I look around our squad and see a LOT of individual talent being wasted in a petrified system that doesn't know how to adapt. Final 15 minutes, we actually looked potent as a team chasing the game - we need to start games with the shackles off like that.

[Irish_Steve]

Just listening to the BBC radio breakfast show - someone
tweeted in saying that it was an easy open goal and the studio hust started laughing. Some of them have played international football and won the Premiership.

Yeah but unlike Calumhibee, none of those internationalists have played in the Lowland League, ergo they don’t know what they are talking about lol

[calumhibee1]

Yeah but unlike Calumhibee, none of those internationalists have played in the Lowland League, ergo they don’t know what they are talking about lol

Chronic patter lol

[Irish_Steve]

Chronic patter lol

To be fair, you were the one saying that Cesc Fabregas was talking nonsense about the goal. If that’s not chronic patter, i dont know what is

[calumhibee1]

To be fair, you were the one saying that Cesc Fabregas was talking nonsense about the goal. If that’s not chronic patter, i dont know what is

And I stand by that. A ball rolling away from you isn’t some sort of difficult ball to strike hence why when players get the chance to take a touch out their feet and hit it that’s exactly what they do.

Just because he’s Cesc Fabregas it doesn’t mean he can’t be talking nonsense. That ball broke absolutely perfectly to the Czech player yesterday.

I’ll continue to talk about the football, you can carry on with personal digs.

[Irish_Steve]

And I stand by that. A ball rolling away from you isn’t some sort of difficult ball to strike hence why when players get the chance to take a touch out their feet and hit it that’s exactly what they do.

Just because he’s Cesc Fabregas it doesn’t mean he can’t be talking nonsense. That ball broke absolutely perfectly to the Czech player yesterday.

I’ll continue to talk about the football, you can carry on with personal digs.

Can you tell me once where i have made a personal dig

[calumhibee1]

Can you tell me once where i have made a personal dig

You’re replying to posts that have nothing to do with me with comments about me. You’re kidding yourself on if you’re going to try and claim you weren’t having a dig at me now.

Anyway, as I said, I’ll continue to post about the football so I’ll not be saying any more on the matter.

[jacomo]

:agree:

Patterson should be in for the last 2 games. As should gilmour.


Who does Gilmour replace in the 11?

Armstrong had a bit of a nightmare yesterday, especially early on, but I like him and he at least tries to be creative. Turnbull would seem the obvious alternative.

Gilmour is more similar to SJM in terms of the role he plays.

[calumhibee1]

I honestly don't know how many Scotland fans genuinely think we're that good.

Getting to these finals papered over a lot the failings and inadequacies that we've seen around Clarke's teams and setups. He's been exposed big-time yesterday by (as you say) a vastly superior organised unit in the Czechs.

We might have a bunch of Premier League players who have performed well individually this year, but Clarke doesn't know how to put them together into a useful side - against lower level opposition, he's gotten away with that but on this stage, he's going to see those sides struggle.

His persistent reliance on 'tried and tested' players is going to be our downfall - we should have seen the likes of Patterson, Gilmour, Turnbull, Adams (from the start), who are form players, given the chance to go and do something. Instead, Clarke sent out a team to 'hold our own' and try and steal a goal.

I look around our squad and see a LOT of individual talent being wasted in a petrified system that doesn't know how to adapt. Final 15 minutes, we actually looked potent as a team chasing the game - we need to start games with the shackles off like that.

:agree:

Agree with all of this.

[calumhibee1]

Who does Gilmour replace in the 11?

Armstrong had a bit of a nightmare yesterday, especially early on, but I like him and he at least tries to be creative. Turnbull would seem the obvious alternative.

Gilmour is more similar to SJM in terms of the role he plays.

I would say my three would be SJM, McTominay and Gilmour so it would be Armstrong he’d be replacing from yesterday’s team, McGregor from the team we seem to have been playing most of the time recently.

I said before yesterday I reckoned that should be the three. Armstrong done nothing yesterday to convince me otherwise. Admittedly the other two were rotten as well but they’ve shown a bit more for Scotland recently then Armstrong or McGregor have imo.

[WeeRussell]

And I stand by that. A ball rolling away from you isn’t some sort of difficult ball to strike hence why when players get the chance to take a touch out their feet and hit it that’s exactly what they do.

Just because he’s Cesc Fabregas it doesn’t mean he can’t be talking nonsense. That ball broke absolutely perfectly to the Czech player yesterday.

I’ll continue to talk about the football, you can carry on with personal digs.

Sorry mate but players generally don’t take a touch in order to start the ball rolling away from them. Getting the ball under control or, away from an opponent, or as you said yourself, getting it out from their feet is what the first touch is for. They’re not trying to get it rolling away from them to line up a shot or cross.

Cesc kens.

[calumhibee1]

Sorry mate but players generally don’t take a touch in order to start the ball rolling away from them. Getting the ball under control or, away from an opponent, or as you said yourself, getting it out from their feet is what the first touch is for. They’re not trying to get it rolling away from them to line up a shot or cross.

Cesc kens.

And what is the ball doing once they take that touch?

Rolling away from them. The ball is rarely dead in football. Once you’ve taken a touch, the ball is rolling away from you.

Let’s use some famous goals in Hibs matches. Of course since we’re talking about a goal scored with the guys feet and not his head then we’ll use goals scored with the feet.

Stokes in the cup final. Gets the ball. Touches the ball ahead of himself, or away from himself if you will. Hits the ball when it’s rolling away from him. Scores.

Halliday in the cup final. Touch out his feet, away from himself, scores.

Riordan V Hearts from 30 yards. Touch out the feet, ball rolling away from himself. Scores.

The vast majority of goals in football follow that same pattern. Touch out the feet or touch ahead of yourself on the dribble. Ball is rolling away from you.

[hibsbollah]

Not to make a specific point, but it’s worth noting that Scotland won XG quite comfortably, 2.31 to Czechia’s 0.91. Amongst a lot of justified unhappiness, the bottom line was Schick took his chances, we didn’t, and their goalie was excellent repeatedly.

Che Adams needs to start against England, and Nisbet deserves another opportunity. Sometimes it’s just as simple as taking your chances. We created numerous.

[calumhibee1]

Not to make a specific point, but it’s worth noting that Scotland won XG quite comfortably, 2.31 to Czechia’s 0.91. Amongst a lot of justified unhappiness, the bottom line was Schick took his chances, we didn’t, and their goalie was excellent repeatedly.

Che Adams needs to start against England, and Nisbet deserves another opportunity. Sometimes it’s just as simple as taking your chances. We created numerous.

How is the expected goals thing measured?

I seen somewhere on here that it’s something to do with angles and distance?

[Irish_Steve]

You’re replying to posts that have nothing to do with me with comments about me. You’re kidding yourself on if you’re going to try and claim you weren’t having a dig at me now.

Anyway, as I said, I’ll continue to post about the football so I’ll not be saying any more on the matter.

You mean the stuff about the Lowland Leagues that you actually started. If you thought those were digs, i am stunned

[Kato]

Not to make a specific point, but it’s worth noting that Scotland won XG quite comfortably, 2.31 to Czechia’s 0.91.

hooray

[AugustaHibs]

Thought it was incredibly impressive until I seen how far out Marshall was.

Most professional footballers could do that.

[Moulin Yarns]

And what is the ball doing once they take that touch?

Rolling away from them. The ball is rarely dead in football. Once you’ve taken a touch, the ball is rolling away from you.

If you take a touch and it’s not rolling away from you then it’s stuck under your feet.

I am not an international footballer but I would have thought a ball coming across you would be easier to hit accurately than one running away from you. But that's just my opinion.

Yesterday was a perfect storm of coincidences, the shot from Hendry could have ricocheted anywhere, it fell perfectly for schick, schick hit an accurate shot at an unguarded target, Marshall could have been 10m further back and he would have saved it. Just my opinion.

[calumhibee1]

I am not an international footballer but I would have thought a ball coming across you would be easier to hit accurately than one running away from you. But that's just my opinion.

Yesterday was a perfect storm of coincidences, the shot from Hendry could have ricocheted anywhere, it fell perfectly for schick, schick hit an accurate shot at an unguarded target, Marshall could have been 10m further back and he would have saved it. Just my opinion.

I’m not sure that goal yesterday can be described as running away from the guy though. He wasn’t on the stretch when he hit it. He ran onto it quite comfortably.

I agree with your second paragraph. The perfect storm of a goalie too far off his line, a forward who’s already clocked that, a centre half inexplicably shooting from 35 yards into a crowd of players and the ball breaking perfectly for the opposing striker.

[Killiehibbie]

How is the expected goals thing measured?

I seen somewhere on here that it’s something to do with angles and distance?

https://fbref.com/en/expected-goals-model-explained/
xG does not take into account the quality of player(s) involved in a particular play. It is an estimate of how the average player or team would perform in a similar situation.

That explains the flaw in our game yesterday.

[Moulin Yarns]

I’m not sure that goal yesterday can be described as running away from the guy though. He wasn’t on the stretch when he hit it. He ran onto it quite comfortably.

I agree with your second paragraph. The perfect storm of a goalie too far off his line, a forward who’s already clocked that, a centre half inexplicably shooting from 35 yards into a crowd of players and the ball breaking perfectly for the opposing striker.

If he is running on to the ball, then the ball is effectively coming towards him, no?

It's a long time since I did physics 😉

The velocity of the ball is less than the player but the direction is the same. 😁

[Irish_Steve]

I am not an international footballer but I would have thought a ball coming across you would be easier to hit accurately than one running away from you. But that's just my opinion.

Yesterday was a perfect storm of coincidences, the shot from Hendry could have ricocheted anywhere, it fell perfectly for schick, schick hit an accurate shot at an unguarded target, Marshall could have been 10m further back and he would have saved it. Just my opinion.

That’s the point i was making the whole time yet CH thought I was having a dig at hime. Cecs Fabregas agrees with you, he said it was easier to hit a ball that was coming towards you than one that was rolling away from you.

[calumhibee1]

If he is running on to the ball, then the ball is effectively coming towards him, no?

It's a long time since I did physics 😉

In yesterday’s situation he’s going towards the ball. The ball and him are both heading in the direction of the goals. Before it’s hit.

If you’re chasing somebody then you’re both running in the same direction in the same way the player and the ball were yesterday. You’re not running towards each other though. The person being chased is ‘moving away’ from you.

I’d say the ball is coming towards you if you score a goal like Sauzee at Tynecastle. A skill that is infinitely more difficult than striking a ball where you and the ball are travelling in the same direction, or the ball is “moving away” from you if you will.

[Peevemor]

If he is running on to the ball, then the ball is effectively coming towards him, no?

It's a long time since I did physics 😉

The velocity of the ball is less than the player but the direction is the same. 😁

I'm just wondering at what point we should start taking the rotation of the earth into account.

[Moulin Yarns]

I'm just wondering at what point we should start taking the rotation of the earth into account.

🤔 That has some gravitas

[Lago]

I see the 2nd goal is now a highlight on American morning TV. I'm afraid it's probably now going to be the defining moment of big Marshall's career, the photo of him tangled in the back of the nets is not a good look.