Jack Ross

[The 90+2]

You turned up at the Scottish Cup parade and started supporting Hibs from then didn't you?

Decent timing to start tbf.

[BSEJVT]

The cup winning team that lost a final a few weeks earlier to Ross County and lost to Falkirk in the play offs?

Absolutely, that same team that beat umpteen SPL teams over the period they were a championship club

There is also a huge difference between losing unluckily to Ross County in that final in which they were demonstrably the better team and getting pumped 2 zip at home and in doing so barely laying a glove on a far poorer Ross County team, hopelessly out of form and having not scored in weeks.

That cup winning team also came back from that loss a few short days later and won a quarter-final replay at Inverness where we have an abysmal record.

That team also came back from the heartache of that Falkirk defeat a week later to win a cup it's forbears had been unsuccessfully trying to win for over a 100 years

If you cant see that that team had far more grit than the current team then there is absolutely nothing I can do to help convince you as a blind man could see the difference.

It is all very well sticking up for the current team, but there is no need to make an absolute fool of yourself in doing so by citing nonsense comparisons.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Absolutely, that same team that beat umpteen SPL teams over the period they were a championship club

There is also a huge difference between losing unluckily to Ross County in that final in which they were demonstrably the better team and getting pumped 2 zip at home and in doing so barely laying a glove on a far poorer Ross County team, hopelessly out of form and having not scored in weeks.

That cup winning team also came back from that loss a few short days later and won a quarter-final replay at Inverness where we have an abysmal record.

That team also came back from the heartache of that Falkirk defeat a week later to win a cup it's forbears had been unsuccessfully trying to win for over a 100 years

If you cant see that that team had far more grit than the current team then there is absolutely nothing I can do to help convince you as a blind man could see the difference.

It is all very well sticking up for the current team, but there is no need to make an absolute fool of yourself in doing so by citing nonsense comparisons.

All of this is fair but doesn't it also show what a game of fine margins football is? And how tiny little things breaking one way or the other can completely influence how we summarise a manager/team's legacy?

If Gunnarsson's "clearance" is a few inches lower then Hearts win the Scottish Cup 5th Round derby despite Hanlon's equaliser and the amount of character it took for us to win that. Bottlers label slapped on that game.

If Mark Oxley doesn't lose his contact lens up in Inverness maybe he stays in goal and makes a mistake that forces extra time which Caley eventually win. Bottlers label slapped on that game (especially when taken into the consideration of losing the League Cup final days before).

If Oxley doesn't lose his contact lens then we don't sign Conrad Logan and we probably lose the United semi final. Bottlers label slapped on that game.

If Kenny Miller heads home a simple chance in the final we go 2-1 down in the first half and Rangers might have added to that and gone on to win the game comfortably. Bottlers label slapped on that game.

On the other side of that if Alan Muir does his job against Falkirk in the first leg and spots the blatant handball we might well go on to win the game and get promoted.

The point is that there are so many sliding doors in football and it's not worthwhile painting in broad brushes about managers and eras and saying x is a bottler and x isn't. There are so many breaks of fortune good and bad in almost every football match and you sometimes just have to shrug and say that's football. There isn't always a reason to explain why sides lose games.

[Andy74]

Absolutely, that same team that beat umpteen SPL teams over the period they were a championship club

There is also a huge difference between losing unluckily to Ross County in that final in which they were demonstrably the better team and getting pumped 2 zip at home and in doing so barely laying a glove on a far poorer Ross County team, hopelessly out of form and having not scored in weeks.

That cup winning team also came back from that loss a few short days later and won a quarter-final replay at Inverness where we have an abysmal record.

That team also came back from the heartache of that Falkirk defeat a week later to win a cup it's forbears had been unsuccessfully trying to win for over a 100 years

If you cant see that that team had far more grit than the current team then there is absolutely nothing I can do to help convince you as a blind man could see the difference.

It is all very well sticking up for the current team, but there is no need to make an absolute fool of yourself in doing so by citing nonsense comparisons.

Nah, you were suggesting that things like losing games wasn’t what the cup final team would do because they had character.

They did lose games, big games.

They also won big games too.

It is absolutely fine to make excuses for the games that team lost, there were circumstances. They were also just terrible some weeks.

The point is that the current team also need to be allowed to see through a number of competitions and games. Judging them already on the fact they lost a cup semi and a couple of league games? The story didn’t end with those defeats for the cup winning team and it isn’t over for this team either.

[SHODAN]

"Losing derbies is never acceptable"? :confused:

It's going to happen. We will lose derbies. Even if we had a good derby record it would happen. You are being petulant in the extreme if you can't accept losing a derby now and then. Not that the two Ross lost were acceptable by the way. But just making a general point.

A home loss - sorry, home trouncing - against a Hearts team spiralling towards relegation and a cup semi final defeat to Hearts team in the division below aren't acceptable. Sorry.

[BSEJVT]

All of this is fair but doesn't it also show what a game of fine margins football is? And how tiny little things breaking one way or the other can completely influence how we summarise a manager/team's legacy?

If Gunnarsson's "clearance" is a few inches lower then Hearts win the Scottish Cup 5th Round derby despite Hanlon's equaliser and the amount of character it took for us to win that. Bottlers label slapped on that game.

If Mark Oxley doesn't lose his contact lens up in Inverness maybe he stays in goal and makes a mistake that forces extra time which Caley eventually win. Bottlers label slapped on that game (especially when taken into the consideration of losing the League Cup final days before).

If Oxley doesn't lose his contact lens then we don't sign Conrad Logan and we probably lose the United semi final. Bottlers label slapped on that game.

If Kenny Miller heads home a simple chance in the final we go 2-1 down in the first half and Rangers might have added to that and gone on to win the game comfortably. Bottlers label slapped on that game.

On the other side of that if Alan Muir does his job against Falkirk in the first leg and spots the blatant handball we might well go on to win the game and get promoted.

The point is that there are so many sliding doors in football and it's not worthwhile painting in broad brushes about managers and eras and saying x is a bottler and x isn't. There are so many breaks of fortune good and bad in almost every football match and you sometimes just have to shrug and say that's football. There isn't always a reason to explain why sides lose games.

Entirely fair comment

There is not as the examples painted by Andy serve to illustrate that

But for every ying there is a yang

That side proved time and again their ability to overcome the odds win games they weren't supposed to and overcome adversity

My point is that the current side have yet to do that, indeed quite the reverse.

To me that empahises that there is more to a signing than their ability and I don't see Ross or for that matter Hecky signing any real leaders and I think that is where the issues lie

Without going back into the records, off the top of my head the only real leader I can recall Lennon signing was Grant Holt.

We have retreated into a stream of shrinking violets bereft of characters like McGinn, McGregor, Bartley, Fontaine, Gray, guys who would put their heads above the parapet and their chests out and take what was coming.

[HibeeHibernian4]

A home loss - sorry, home trouncing - against a Hearts team spiralling towards relegation and a cup semi final defeat to Hearts team in the division below aren't acceptable. Sorry.

Excellent then we're in agreement because I said the exact same. Although on reflection the semi final had lots of those elements of luck/fine margins I was just talking about.

[SHODAN]

Excellent then we're in agreement because I said the exact same. Although on reflection the semi final had lots of those elements of luck/fine margins I was just talking about.

Looking back I didn't read your post in full, which I really should have done - apologies.

The fine margins thing is a fair point but it never seems to go the other way.

[hibsfan7]

He needs a few windows before we judge him

[James Stephen]

A home loss - sorry, home trouncing - against a Hearts team spiralling towards relegation and a cup semi final defeat to Hearts team in the division below aren't acceptable. Sorry.

Im always curious what people mean when they say its unacceptable. What do you do to not accept it?

Defeats in football happen, defeats to your biggest rivals, that are painful, unfair or downright dreadful happen.

So do you just walk about with your fingers in your ears, shouting la la la, i dont accept it?

[Winston Ingram]

Are we going to bring that game up every time he loses? He is basically doomed if we're still holding that against him.

The tactics against Hearts in the home defeat were amateur. Every team was pumping them with pace over the top and he plays 352 and Boyle at wing back. They pressed us so high he was practically right back. Did he change it when it was obviously a problem. Nope.

[Since452]

A home loss - sorry, home trouncing - against a Hearts team spiralling towards relegation and a cup semi final defeat to Hearts team in the division below aren't acceptable. Sorry.

It's football. These things happen. No choice but to accept it. We lost at home to Hearts, they got relegated. We lost the semi on the flip of a penalty, they didn't win the cup. No damage done other than to our pride. They would absolutely kill to be in our place right now.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Im always curious what people mean when they say its unacceptable. What do you do to not accept it?

Defeats in football happen, defeats to your biggest rivals, that are painful, unfair or downright dreadful happen.

So do you just walk about with your fingers in your ears, shouting la la la, i dont accept it?

:greengrin

Took the words out of my mouth with this post.

There are quite a few Hibs fans (not really on here but more at the games and in the pubs) who seem to think saying "too many fans accept that pish" means something. Just comes across as posturing. "I don't accept Hibs losing". What does that actually mean? It happened. It will happen again. :confused:

[Coco Bryce]

:greengrin

Took the words out of my mouth with this post.

There are quite a few Hibs fans (not really on here but more at the games and in the pubs) who seem to think saying "too many fans accept that pish" means something. Just comes across as posturing. "I don't accept Hibs losing". What does that actually mean? It happened. It will happen again. :confused:

Does it really just say that? Or does it also continue to say '....against Ross County and Livi?'

[hibsbollah]

Does it really just say that? Or does it also continue to say '....against Ross County and Livi?'

But still, the question is, what does that actually mean?! Those two teams will have quality pros who will always be capable of beating us on occasions. That’s sport. As players and coaches, You can react by making tactical or personnel changes here and there, but throwing away the blueprint, sacking people and in general reacting in an emotional way gets away from the need to be 100% positive that is vital for all sport.

For fans, you can cry and wet the bed every time you lose to a team with a lower budget than you, but that won’t make it any less likely for it to happen. Because it will, even to the best teams. Just because I’m not getting angry on a message board doesn’t mean I’m ‘accepting failure’ or ‘tolerating mediocrity’. I’m just conscious of my blood pressure :greengrin

[SlickShoes]

But still, the question is, what does that actually mean?! Those two teams will have quality pros who will always be capable of beating us on occasions. That’s sport. As players and coaches, You can react by making tactical or personnel changes here and there, but throwing away the blueprint, sacking people and in general reacting in an emotional way gets away from the need to be 100% positive that is vital for all sport.

For fans, you can cry and wet the bed every time you lose to a team with a lower budget than you, but that won’t make it any less likely for it to happen. Because it will, even to the best teams. Just because I’m not getting angry on a message board doesn’t mean I’m ‘accepting failure’ or ‘tolerating mediocrity’. I’m just conscious of my blood pressure :greengrin

I agree with this and I feel like a lot of over the top comments come from people that have never played any competitive sport or its been that long since they did that they have forgotten what it's like to compete.

The other teams in our league are not just there to be beaten, they are actively trying to beat us too and their players are professionals too that are doing their best to win and progress in the sport.

I have played multiple sports and sometimes I am hitting every pass with accuracy and other times its like I'm using someone else's feet or hands. Like the Daryl Horgan conundrum, he was 10/10 brilliant in about 1 out of every 10 games, do people think he was actively setting out to play crap in 9 of those games and just couldn't be bothered? I guess some folk probably do think that.

[Since452]

If Hibs losing is unacceptable then you support the wrong club lol

[Coco Bryce]

But still, the question is, what does that actually mean?! Those two teams will have quality pros who will always be capable of beating us on occasions. That’s sport. As players and coaches, You can react by making tactical or personnel changes here and there, but throwing away the blueprint, sacking people and in general reacting in an emotional way gets away from the need to be 100% positive that is vital for all sport.

For fans, you can cry and wet the bed every time you lose to a team with a lower budget than you, but that won’t make it any less likely for it to happen. Because it will, even to the best teams. Just because I’m not getting angry on a message board doesn’t mean I’m ‘accepting failure’ or ‘tolerating mediocrity’. I’m just conscious of my blood pressure :greengrin

Yes I agree sort of. But we shouldn't be getting beat with a team as bad as Ross Co.

Anyway. There is absolutely nothing I will ever read on a football forum that will boil my blood and start foaming at the mouth :greengrin

[Keith_M]

The last two games were horrendous, as was the last league derby. I think that viewpoint is totally fair and I'd imagine the manager feels the same.

But complaining about an inability to beat Rangers and Celtc? That's a bit of a push, considering how far ahead of the rest of us both clubs are now. Celtc and Rangers haven't lost a single league game against any of the other clubs this season.

In actual fact, we probably have a better record against both of them this season than almost any other club and were only one minute away from beating Celtc.

[J-C]

I have no problem getting beat if the other team is either better or worked hard for the win as long as Hibs put in enough of an effort that you can be happy with, the last 2 performances have been atrocious and hopefully just a blip but it was the half arsed way in which they lost that's gotten people's backs up.

[Allez Hibs]

In the last 25 years, how many Hibs managers have had this much scrutiny of their performance after a year in charge?

[MWHIBBIES]

In the last 25 years, how many Hibs managers have had this much scrutiny of their performance after a year in charge?

Most of them I'd say? Fenlon, Mixu, Yogi all got slaughtered. Few of the others lasted a year.

[Keith_M]

In the last 25 years, how many Hibs managers have had this much scrutiny of their performance after a year in charge?


On here? Every single one of them, once they've had a couple of poor results.

[Jones28]

In the last 25 years, how many Hibs managers have had this much scrutiny of their performance after a year in charge?

Hecky? But that was because we had gone from a half decent start under him to absolutely ****ing awful after a summer.

[Highwayman]

In the last 25 years, how many Hibs managers have had this much scrutiny of their performance after a year in charge?

Every club manager is always subject to close scrutiny from supporters,media and board.Even Alex Ferguson when Manchester United beat Bayern Munich in Barcelona to win the Champions League was summoned back from a holiday in France for a board meeting where one of the. members accused him of believing he was more important to Manchester United than they were to him.Moral of the tale to club managers is you are never going to please. everybody. no matter what you achieve.

[Yorkshire HFC]

Yes I agree sort of. But we shouldn't be getting beat with a team as bad as Ross Co.

Anyway. There is absolutely nothing I will ever read on a football forum that will boil my blood and start foaming at the mouth :greengrin

Do you also think we should never beat Celtic or Rangers? Aberdeen? How about Motherwell or St Johnstone?

[PH91]

Yes I agree sort of. But we shouldn't be getting beat with a team as bad as Ross Co.

Anyway. There is absolutely nothing I will ever read on a football forum that will boil my blood and start foaming at the mouth :greengrin

I would expand that to we shouldn't be getting beat by a team as bad as ross county regularly.

We will always drop points to teams below us, as we would expect to take points off those above us, it's the nature of the game. It's about making sure those games where we drop points are few and far between, which Ross has generally done a good job of even if the last 2 performances have been woeful.

[superfurryhibby]

I would expand that to we shouldn't be getting beat by a team as bad as ross county regularly.

We will always drop points to teams below us, as we would expect to take points off those above us, it's the nature of the game. It's about making sure those games where we drop points are few and far between, which Ross has generally done a good job of even if the last 2 performances have been woeful.

Agree, that is football.

Reading the ON this Day thread and seeing how Turnbull's team who finished second two years in a row managed to lose or draw regularly with bloody East Fife or get defeated in cup competitions, by the likes of Arbroath and Montrose, when they were amongst the favourites to win the competition.

The table doesn't lie, neither do results. We are comfortably fourth. We're clearly having a bad run. Every other team in our league , outside the top three are pretty inconsistent. I fully expect Livi to imminently resort back to winless runs and the like. Currently Hibs are struggling, but the stats from the 20 odd games or so played in the league tell me that Ross will get Hibs back on track.

[Allez Hibs]

Agree, that is football.

Reading the ON this Day thread and seeing how Turnbull's team who finished second two years in a row managed to lose or draw regularly with bloody East Fife or get defeated in cup competitions, by the likes of Arbroath and Montrose, when they were amongst the favourites to win the competition.

The table doesn't lie, neither do results. We are comfortably fourth. We're clearly having a bad run. Every other team in our league , outside the top three are pretty inconsistent. I fully expect Livi to imminently resort back to winless runs and the like. Currently Hibs are struggling, but the stats from the 20 odd games or so played in the league tell me that Ross will get Hibs back on track.

Wouldn't say Hibs are comfortably 4th,Livingston have two games in hand to get within 3 points.

[Since452]

Wouldn't say Hibs are comfortably 4th,Livingston have two games in hand to get within 3 points.

That's correct but I'd be amazed if Livingston kept their form up. They've got the new manager bounce. Be interesting to see how they bounce back from a couple of poor results.

[Key West]

Judging Ross on losing to Hearts is unfair, Celtic were 2 up and nearly lost the final to the same opponents.

[superfurryhibby]

Wouldn't say Hibs are comfortably 4th,Livingston have two games in hand to get within 3 points.

Yes, at the moment we are comfortably 4th. Livi will implode soon enough.

Out of interest, who do they play in these games?

[bingo70]

Judging Ross on losing to Hearts is unfair, Celtic were 2 up and nearly lost the final to the same opponents.

If he was being judged on one game that would be fair.

It’s the pattern of not being able to win enough big games, allied to that being the same criticism at his previous club that makes people think it’s not a coincidence and isn’t just bad luck.

Im not wanting him sacked though so other people that do, might feel differently

[Andy74]

If he was being judged on one game that would be fair.

It’s the pattern of not being able to win enough big games, allied to that being the same criticism at his previous club that makes people think it’s not a coincidence and isn’t just bad luck.

Im not wanting him sacked though so other people that do, might feel differently

This ‘big games’ thing is just arbitrary recently made up nonsense though isn’t it?

Our general position and outlook is pretty good but we might as well have some other category to start shipping managers out against.

[bingo70]

This ‘big games’ thing is just arbitrary recently made up nonsense though isn’t it?

Our general position and outlook is pretty good but we might as well have some other category to start shipping managers out against.

Not really?

I think it’s always something we’ve been aware of since he got very close to success at Sunderland but couldn’t quite get them over the line.

When we beat Hearts at Tynecastle I think those concerns were put on the back burner. The failure to win any big games since then has alarm bells ringing for people I think. If you combine that with losing against the rubbish now as well, I’m not that surprised there’s a bit of unrest growing.

[JimBHibees]

Yes, at the moment we are comfortably 4th. Livi will implode soon enough.

Out of interest, who do they play in these games?

Think it is Celtic and Aberdeen

[Andy74]

Not really?

I think it’s always something we’ve been aware of since he got very close to success at Sunderland but couldn’t quite get them over the line.

When we beat Hearts at Tynecastle I think those concerns were put on the back burner. The failure to win any big games since then has alarm bells ringing for people I think. If you combine that with losing against the rubbish now as well, I’m not that surprised there’s a bit of unrest growing.

Can you let me see a list of big games please?

[bingo70]

Can you let me see a list of big games please?

Absolutely not.

Don’t care anywhere near enough to go through all his games as manager. I think someone said it was 2 wins in 14 though.

The big fixtures, if that’s what you mean though are the games against Rangers, Celtic, hearts, Aberdeen plus semi finals and finals of cup competitions.

[B.H.F.C]

If he was being judged on one game that would be fair.

It’s the pattern of not being able to win enough big games, allied to that being the same criticism at his previous club that makes people think it’s not a coincidence and isn’t just bad luck.

Im not wanting him sacked though so other people that do, might feel differently

He’s definitely not being judged on one game. Or even the big games. Or even the results because people have been critical even when they were better in the first part of the season.

Same as you, I don’t think it’s time to be sacking him but we need to pick things up a bit.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Im always curious what people mean when they say its unacceptable. What do you do to not accept it?

Defeats in football happen, defeats to your biggest rivals, that are painful, unfair or downright dreadful happen.

So do you just walk about with your fingers in your ears, shouting la la la, i dont accept it?

Looks like some of Trump's lot might have read your post and got some ideas. :greengrin

[calumhibee1]

Can you let me see a list of big games please?

If you’re unsure of what constitutes a big game for Hibs then you can ask the club themselves. They categorise the games - Rangers, Celtic, Hearts and i think Aberdeen (although I’m not sure on that one as I don’t pay at the gate) all being big games by the clubs logic as they have them down as Category A, the highest category.

I’m not quite sure why you think the concept of big games is recently made up arbitrary nonsense tbh. There’s always been big games. It’s not a new phenomenon. Trying to get someone to ‘list’ the games just smacks of trying to bore someone into submission so you can claim some sort of victory.

[HibeeHibernian4]

If you’re unsure of what constitutes a big game for Hibs then you can ask the club themselves. They categorise the games - Rangers, Celtic, Hearts and i think Aberdeen (although I’m not sure on that one as I don’t pay at the gate) all being big games by the clubs logic as they have them down as Category A, the highest category.

I’m not quite sure why you think the concept of big games is recently made up arbitrary nonsense tbh. There’s always been big games. It’s not a new phenomenon.

Semi finals and finals are taken as given for being big games right? Like make no mistake about it St Johnstone this month is a big game.

[GreenCastle]

Prefer the term important games.

Think it’s a better description than big.

[calumhibee1]

Semi finals and finals are taken as given for being big games right? Like make no mistake about it St Johnstone this month is a big game.

Of course. Category A games and latter stages of cups are always big games (or important games if that’s the term folk would prefer!).

Pretending there’s no such thing as games that are bigger than others is quite simply laughable.

[h1bs4life]

Agree, that is football.

Reading the ON this Day thread and seeing how Turnbull's team who finished second two years in a row managed to lose or draw regularly with bloody East Fife or get defeated in cup competitions, by the likes of Arbroath and Montrose, when they were amongst the favourites to win the competition.

The table doesn't lie, neither do results. We are comfortably fourth. We're clearly having a bad run. Every other team in our league , outside the top three are pretty inconsistent. I fully expect Livi to imminently resort back to winless runs and the like. Currently Hibs are struggling, but the stats from the 20 odd games or so played in the league tell me that Ross will get Hibs back on track.

When Turnbull's team got beat by the likes of Arbroath and Montrose that was big big news at the time. Nowadays that would hardly get a mention.
The 1st big game I seen at Hampden was probably one of the Turnbull's 1st big games as Hibs manager when we got beat 6-1.
After the game Turnbull vowed we would beat Celtic next time at Hampden and we did Dryborough Cup , League Cup , Dryborough Cup again.

The same happened with Alex Millar and his team , despite all the crap football we had to endure when Murdo Mcleod lifted the League Cup then all ( maybe most )
was forgiven, the fact we almost lost the club the year before made it even more special.

There were a few including myself who were annoyed that we lost the Semi Final but if Jack Ross goes on and wins the League Cup then the Semi Final loss will be a distant memory and him and his team will be regarded as legends.

Football fans of all teams not just Hibs are fickle.

[Since452]

When Turnbull's team got beat by the likes of Arbroath and Montrose that was big big news at the time. Nowadays that would hardly get a mention.
The 1st big game I seen at Hampden was probably one of the Turnbull's 1st big games as Hibs manager when we got beat 6-1.
After the game Turnbull vowed we would beat Celtic next time at Hampden and we did Dryborough Cup , League Cup , Dryborough Cup again.

The same happened with Alex Millar and his team , despite all the crap football we had to endure when Murdo Mcleod lifted the League Cup then all ( maybe most )
was forgiven, the fact we almost lost the club the year before made it even more special.

There were a few including myself who were annoyed that we lost the Semi Final but if Jack Ross goes on and wins the League Cup then the Semi Final loss will be a distant memory and him and his team will be regarded as legends.

Football fans of all teams not just Hibs are fickle.

Same with John Collins. People see him through rose tinted glasses because he won the cup. Jack Ross is an infinitely better manager than Collins.

[James Stephen]

Looks like some of Trump's lot might have read your post and got some ideas. :greengrin

Make Hibernian Great Again!!!!

😁

[Fergus52]

Absolutely not.

Don’t care anywhere near enough to go through all his games as manager. I think someone said it was 2 wins in 14 though.

The big fixtures, if that’s what you mean though are the games against Rangers, Celtic, hearts, Aberdeen plus semi finals and finals of cup competitions.

That 2 wins in 14 stat is pretty stupid and completely misleading though. More than half those games were against the old firm who's staff budgets are about 10x the size of hibs. A few of those 12 non-wins have included very good performances resulting in draws against sides with much more quality than ours.

The results and performances against Hearts and Aberdeen have been poor on the whole and he can be criticised for that but including the old firm games isn't fair imo, especially when we've had a few very good performances against them under Ross.

If you compare that game when the huns hammered us at ER when jack Ross first came in to the last 3 games against rangers you can clearly see the improvement.

[Allez Hibs]

Jack Ross Category A games:

P 14 W 2 D 2 L 10

19/20
Aberdeen Home W 3-0
Celtic Away L 2-0
Rangers Home L 3-0
Hearts Away W 2-0
Rangers Away L 2-1
Hearts Home L 3-1
Aberdeen Away L 3-1
20/21
Aberdeen Home L 1-0
Rangers Home D 2-2
Celtic Away L 3-0
HEARTS SF L 2-1
Aberdeen Away L 2-0
Celtic Home D 2-2
Rangers Away L 1-0

[Fergus52]

I don't really see how you can demand that hibs don't ever get beat off of the likes of Ross county or Livingston, while also bemoaning that our record against Celtic and rangers hasn't been good enough recently.

Our budget is much much closer to Ross countys than it is to Celtics.

[Allez Hibs]

I don't really see how you can demand that hibs don't ever get beat off of the likes of Ross county or Livingston, while also bemoaning that our record against Celtic and rangers hasn't been good enough recently.

Our budget is much much closer to Ross countys than it is to Celtics.

I think thats the problem. Ambition has been watered-down so much from the club over the years that its all down to budget and not the ability of good coaching and good players. Now an element of the support has that watered down ambition.

[Fergus52]

Jack Ross Category A games:

P 14 W 2 D 2 L 10

19/20
Aberdeen Home W 3-0
Celtic Away L 2-0
Rangers Home L 3-0
Hearts Away W 2-0
Rangers Away L 2-1
Hearts Home L 3-1
Aberdeen Away L 3-1
20/21
Aberdeen Home L 1-0
Rangers Home D 2-2
Celtic Away L 3-0
HEARTS SF L 2-1
Aberdeen Away L 2-0
Celtic Home D 2-2
Rangers Away L 1-0

If you discount the first 3 (think that's fair as Ross had just came in and not really put his mark down on the team yet) then I'd argue only 2 of those games were terrible performances: 3-1 hearts and Aberdeen away this season were both dreadful.

Aberdeen away last season we were controlling the match and looked comfortable until Whittaker's dodgy red card.

Home to Aberdeen this season was a pretty poor boring performance but 0-0 would have been fair, freak penalty conceded by Boyle was the difference.

Both the defeats away to rangers were tight games that could have swung either way, as much as we can really hope for with how good Gerrard has them just now.

3-0 to Celtic flattered them imo, we had a few decent chances we didn't take and they were more clinical on the day.

Semi final was obviously a sore one but on another day nisbets penalty goes in and we go through 2-1, fine margins.

[Fergus52]

I think thats the problem. Ambition has been watered-down so much from the club over the years that its all down to budget and not the ability of good coaching and good players. Now an element of the support has that watered down ambition.

Would absolutely love to see hibs challenging for the title but don't think it's realistic.

Perfectly happy to be competing in the latter stages of the cups and on course to qualify for Europe.

If you want more than that then fair play but I'd imagine you'll be waiting a long time

[HibeeHibernian4]

I think thats the problem. Ambition has been watered-down so much from the club over the years that its all down to budget and not the ability of good coaching and good players. Now an element of the support has that watered down ambition.

"Ambition" doesn't actually mean anything though does it? In terms of supporters. I want Hibs to win every game but also know that isn't realistic. Therefore when we lose to the Old Firm as long as it's respectable as a performance I don't hold that against the manager (given the massive gap in wages).

[calumhibee1]

That 2 wins in 14 stat is pretty stupid and completely misleading though. More than half those games were against the old firm who's staff budgets are about 10x the size of hibs. A few of those 12 non-wins have included very good performances resulting in draws against sides with much more quality than ours.

The results and performances against Hearts and Aberdeen have been poor on the whole and he can be criticised for that but including the old firm games isn't fair imo, especially when we've had a few very good performances against them under Ross.

If you compare that game when the huns hammered us at ER when jack Ross first came in to the last 3 games against rangers you can clearly see the improvement.

It’s not misleading at all. They 14 games are the games the fans revel in winning. They’re the games we pick out on the fixture list when it comes out. They’re the games where the high of winning is much higher than the others and the lows are much lower. Quite simply they’re the games the fans care about the most.

[Allez Hibs]

That 2 wins in 14 stat is pretty stupid and completely misleading though. More than half those games were against the old firm who's staff budgets are about 10x the size of hibs. A few of those 12 non-wins have included very good performances resulting in draws against sides with much more quality than ours.

The results and performances against Hearts and Aberdeen have been poor on the whole and he can be criticised for that but including the old firm games isn't fair imo, especially when we've had a few very good performances against them under Ross.

If you compare that game when the huns hammered us at ER when jack Ross first came in to the last 3 games against rangers you can clearly see the improvement.

Misleading? One of the biggest clubs in Scotland!

[Hermit Crab]

I don't really see how you can demand that hibs don't ever get beat off of the likes of Ross county or Livingston, while also bemoaning that our record against Celtic and rangers hasn't been good enough recently.

Our budget is much much closer to Ross countys than it is to Celtics.


I don't think its unreasonable for a club of our size to go through the season losing only a small number of games at home. I fully expect us not to lose any home game bar matches v the OF. We are always getting told by the players and manager we are good enough to complete but rarely do at home. Our record speaks for itself, not won back to back home league games in over 2 years. Shocking.

[HibeeHibernian4]

I don't think its unreasonable for a club of our size to go through the season losing only a small number of games at home. I fully expect us not to lose any home game bar matches v the OF. We are always getting told by the players and manager we are good enough to complete but rarely do at home. Our record speaks for itself, not won back to back home league games in over 2 years. Shocking.

That's a ridiculous expectation that isn't grounded in any sort of reality. I would go as far as to suggest that no non OF club in this century has gone a whole season at home without losing once to a non OF side.

[bingo70]

If you discount the first 3 (think that's fair as Ross had just came in and not really put his mark down on the team yet) then I'd argue only 2 of those games were terrible performances: 3-1 hearts and Aberdeen away this season were both dreadful.

Aberdeen away last season we were controlling the match and looked comfortable until Whittaker's dodgy red card.

Home to Aberdeen this season was a pretty poor boring performance but 0-0 would have been fair, freak penalty conceded by Boyle was the difference.

Both the defeats away to rangers were tight games that could have swung either way, as much as we can really hope for with how good Gerrard has them just now.

3-0 to Celtic flattered them imo, we had a few decent chances we didn't take and they were more clinical on the day.

Semi final was obviously a sore one but on another day nisbets penalty goes in and we go through 2-1, fine margins.

Why just the first 3? If you’re discounting the first 3 then I think you need to discount the 4th as well, was also before his first transfer window wasn’t it?

There is a lot of fine margins in the games, as you say, the semi final in particular that’s true.

I think the concerning thing is that he came to us with that reputation and it’s continued with us. At what point does that become no longer a coincidence and something he’s not doing right in terms of how he prepares and motivates the team before a big game?

Every time I write a post like this I hope it’s acting as a sort of hex that’ll get thrown back at me as soon as we win a big game again. I’d love it if we were to win the league cup but I really don’t think we will.

I think Ross is probably an excellent coach and I don’t doubt the players love him, I think he’s a sensible guy that knows football inside out. I am not convinced he’s a great motivator though.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Why just the first 3? If you’re discounting the first 3 then I think you need to discount the 4th as well, was also before his first transfer window wasn’t it?

There is a lot of fine margins in the games, as you say, the semi final in particular that’s true.

I think the concerning thing is that he came to us with that reputation and it’s continued with us. At what point does that become no longer a coincidence and something he’s not doing right in terms of how he prepares and motivates the team before a big game?

Every time I write a post like this I hope it’s acting as a sort of hex that’ll get thrown back at me as soon as we win a big game again. I’d love it if we were to win the league cup but I really don’t think we will.

I think Ross is probably an excellent coach and I don’t doubt the players love him, I think he’s a sensible guy that knows football inside out. I am not convinced he’s a great motivator though.

Did he come with that reputation? He got Sunderland to the play-off final and they've stagnated without him. He certainly never bottled any notable big games St Mirren or Alloa had.

[calumhibee1]

Did he come with that reputation? He got Sunderland to the play-off final and they've stagnated without him. He certainly never bottled any notable big games St Mirren or Alloa had.

They lost the playoff final though, which is the point.

[Eyrie]

I’m presuming that the fact you said they got to the play off final means they lost it? I genuinely dont know if they did or not but on the presumption they did, does that not prove the point even more?

Does that not mean he won a big game (the semi) to get to the final?

[B.H.F.C]

Did he come with that reputation? He got Sunderland to the play-off final and they've stagnated without him. He certainly never bottled any notable big games St Mirren or Alloa had.

Getting Sunderland to the playoff final wasn’t success.

[Allez Hibs]

Did he come with that reputation? He got Sunderland to the play-off final and they've stagnated without him. He certainly never bottled any notable big games St Mirren or Alloa had.

Yes, he came with that reputation. It was an underwhelming appointment at the time.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Does that not mean he won a big game (the semi) to get to the final?

Thanks. That's what I was getting at. Two legs in the semi final so two big games.

Again we're back to fine margins in terms of the final. Charlton won it in the last minute of injury time. Is that bottling or is it bad luck? Maybe both? Maybe football is too nuanced as a sport for people to look at a defeat of a game they quite probably didn't even watch and declare "this builds to Jack Ross and his reputation as a big game bottler".

[James Stephen]

They lost the playoff final though, which is the point.

Eddie Turnbull's side lost a few finals (badly).

[calumhibee1]

Does that not mean he won a big game (the semi) to get to the final?

Apologies, I’ve just edited my post because I realised he obviously lost it because they’re still in League One - brains not working at night :greengrin

Yup, he did. But when it came to an even bigger game, he lost. It’s pretty much undeniable that his record at us in big games is really poor. I’m not sure how that’s even debatable. Even if people want to remove the Rangers and Celtic games, he’s still played 7 won 2 lost 5.

Considering one of them was also a cup semi final against our biggest rivals who are lower league and one was also a trouncing by our biggest rivals who were bottom of the league and ended up relegated its an appalling record in itself even without the OF games.

[bingo70]

They lost the playoff final though, which is the point.

Johnson’s paint trophy as well I think?

Not a big trophy for neutrals to get excited about but think Sunderland took a good number of fans to Wembley for it.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Getting Sunderland to the playoff final wasn’t success.

They've missed out on the play-offs once already since he left and they're on course to do it again as they're down in 11th right now. He left them in 5th. Maybe relatively that is a success? :aok:

[calumhibee1]

Thanks. That's what I was getting at. Two legs in the semi final so two big games.

Again we're back to fine margins in terms of the final. Charlton won it in the last minute of injury time. Is that bottling or is it bad luck? Maybe both? Maybe football is too nuanced as a sport for people to look at a defeat of a game they quite probably didn't even watch and declare "this builds to Jack Ross and his reputation as a big game bottler".

You could maybe put it down to bad luck if it didn’t keep happening in big games - if we managed to win more than 2 in 14 then you could have said the Celtic game was bad luck, or the semi final even. Unfortunately it happens with alarming frequency that we don’t manage to win big games. That would suggest it’s not just bad luck.

[HibeeHibernian4]

You could maybe put it down to bad luck if it didn’t keep happening in big games - if we managed to win more than 2 in 14 then you could have said the Celtic game was bad luck, or the semi final even. Unfortunately it happens with alarming frequency that we don’t manage to win big games. That would suggest it’s not just bad luck.

Big games imply better opposition and as such your chances of winning said big games tend to decrease. If the downside to 4th place, regular semi finals (hopefully turning into finals and trophies this season) and signing great players like Nisbet is that we lose an "alarming" number of big games, maybe it's actually not as big of a problem as people are making it out to be? Unless you harbour delusional ambitions of Hibs winning the league or never losing a home game outwith the OF.

[James Stephen]

Yes, he came with that reputation. It was an underwhelming appointment at the time.

Dont talk pish.

It was not an underwhelming appointment at all.

You clearly dont like him, fair enough. Why not just say that rather than trying to contort these ridiculous reasons.

Hibs are currently fourth, having a - literally - above average season, with a manager who has been in the job for a year.

Thats progress by any measure. Only folk who cant see that are those who dont want to see it.

[Allez Hibs]

Johnson’s paint trophy as well I think?

Not a big trophy for neutrals to get excited about but think Sunderland took a good number of fans to Wembley for it.

Was a massive game for Sunderland. Sunderland were trying to win a trophy at Wembley for the first time in 40+ years.

[bingo70]

Yes, he came with that reputation. It was an underwhelming appointment at the time.

I don’t think thats the right word for it.

I think we were in a dodgy position at the time and the wrong appointment could have been disastrous for us, see Hearts as an example.

I think he was a safe appointment at the time and I think that’s still the case. I don’t think we’ll ever be in bother with him and I think we’d always finish top 6 with him.

I don’t think he’ll really capture the imagination of the fans though and I don’t think it’ll be a particularly entertaining or exciting time with him in charge. I don’t think he’ll ever do enough to warrant being sacked but I’m far from convinced season ticket sales will remain at their current decent levels.

[Allez Hibs]

I don’t think thats the right word for it.

I think we were in a dodgy position at the time and the wrong appointment could have been disastrous for us, see Hearts as an example.

I think he was a safe appointment at the time and I think that’s still the case. I don’t think we’ll ever be in bother with him and I think we’d always finish top 6 with him.

I don’t think he’ll really capture the imagination of the fans though and I don’t think it’ll be a particularly entertaining or exciting time with him in charge. I don’t think he’ll ever do enough to warrant being sacked but I’m far from convinced season ticket sales will remain at their current decent levels.

Agreed, perhaps cautious is the right word.

[calumhibee1]

Big games imply better opposition and as such your chances of winning said big games tend to decrease. If the downside to 4th place, regular semi finals (hopefully turning into finals and trophies this season) and signing great players like Nisbet is that we lose an "alarming" number of big games, maybe it's actually not as big of a problem as people are making it out to be? Unless you harbour delusional ambitions of Hibs winning the league or never losing a home game outwith the OF.

Absolutely, and I wouldn’t expect us to win loads of them. I wouldn’t even expect us to win the majority of them. But 2 in 14 is dreadful, especially when at least 4 of them (3 Aberdeen defeats and the Hearts defeat at ER) have been embarrassing. For nearly 1/3rd of our big games under him to have been embarrassing defeats really isn’t great.

The issue I think a lot of people have is that 4th and cup semi finals etc is the minimum we should be expecting. To be able to get anything more than the minimum then we really need to improve that record in big games. We’ll never finish above Aberdeen for example if we keep rolling over to them.

[Magpie]

They've missed out on the play-offs once already since he left and they're on course to do it again as they're down in 11th right now. He left them in 5th. Maybe relatively that is a success? :aok:

Or him and the managers who have succeeded him all failed.

[HibeeHibernian4]

I don’t think thats the right word for it.

I think we were in a dodgy position at the time and the wrong appointment could have been disastrous for us, see Hearts as an example.

I think he was a safe appointment at the time and I think that’s still the case. I don’t think we’ll ever be in bother with him and I think we’d always finish top 6 with him.

I don’t think he’ll really capture the imagination of the fans though and I don’t think it’ll be a particularly entertaining or exciting time with him in charge. I don’t think he’ll ever do enough to warrant being sacked but I’m far from convinced season ticket sales will remain at their current decent levels.

And yet if he wins the League Cup (which we are bookies favourites to do) he'll be hailed for years as a "Hibs legend" - something that I don't even think would be fair but that's all it takes. Collins was an absolutely useless manager away from the football pitch. His transfers were a ****ing disgrace. And yet he's still fondly thought of because he lifted a cup at Hampden. We've won six domestic cups in our history maybe let's have some faith in the guy who may well take us to number seven.

[Allez Hibs]

And yet if he wins the League Cup (which we are bookies favourites to do) he'll be hailed for years as a "Hibs legend" - something that I don't even think would be fair but that's all it takes. Collins was an absolutely useless manager away from the football pitch. His transfers were a ****ing disgrace. And yet he's still fondly thought of because he lifted a cup at Hampden. We've won six domestic cups in our history maybe let's have some faith in the guy who may well take us to number seven.

Yes, if he wins the League Cup he will go down as a Hibs Legend. Fickle game. I don't think people want him sacked just a bit more about Hibs in big games.

[Hermit Crab]

That's a ridiculous expectation that isn't grounded in any sort of reality. I would go as far as to suggest that no non OF club in this century has gone a whole season at home without losing once to a non OF side.


Close, Hearts went through the 05/06 season losing twice at home, once to Celtic 2-3 and once to Aberdeen 1-2.

That same season we lost 7 games at home. Celtic, ICT, Falkirk, Aberdeen, Celtic, ICT and Rangers. We lost at home to ***** that season too. We've been doing it for years.

We also got scudded 3 times out of 5 games v hearts that season, including that semi final.

[bingo70]

And yet if he wins the League Cup (which we are bookies favourites to do) he'll be hailed for years as a "Hibs legend" - something that I don't even think would be fair but that's all it takes. Collins was an absolutely useless manager away from the football pitch. His transfers were a ****ing disgrace. And yet he's still fondly thought of because he lifted a cup at Hampden. We've won six domestic cups in our history maybe let's have some faith in the guy who may well take us to number seven.

I think a better comparison would be Alex Miller.

One of the few managers to win a trophy in my lifetime but not sure Legend is the first word that comes to mind when I think of his time in charge. Boring is probably closer to the Mark, even if he did sign some exciting players.

[James Stephen]

Absolutely, and I wouldn’t expect us to win loads of them. I wouldn’t even expect us to win the majority of them. But 2 in 14 is dreadful, especially when at least 4 of them (3 Aberdeen defeats and the Hearts defeat at ER) have been embarrassing. For nearly 1/3rd of our big games under him to have been embarrassing defeats really isn’t great.

The issue I think a lot of people have is that 4th and cup semi finals etc is the minimum we should be expecting. To be able to get anything more than the minimum then we really need to improve that record in big games. We’ll never finish above Aberdeen for example if we keep rolling over to them.

Well a lot of people are very wrong.

4th and a semi final is absolutely NOT the minimum for Hibs.

Since Mowbray, i think Hibs have finished 4th twice, and both those managers were subsequently sacked and replaced with managers who didnt finish 4th, or even close to it.

[B.H.F.C]

Dont talk pish.

It was not an underwhelming appointment at all.

You clearly dont like him, fair enough. Why not just say that rather than trying to contort these ridiculous reasons.

Hibs are currently fourth, having a - literally - above average season, with a manager who has been in the job for a year.

Thats progress by any measure. Only folk who cant see that are those who dont want to see it.

I’ve seen very few folk ever deny we’re in a better position than when he joined. It’s just that, quite a number of people, don’t particularly enjoy what they’ve seen from his team (that’s been quite consistent even when we were in better form results wise).

As for whether you think his appointment was underwhelming, that’s entirely down to opinion. His appointment didn’t excite me at all. I’m still not particularly excited by him or his team. I also hope he wins the League Cup and prove me wrong.

[Allez Hibs]

Under McLeish, Mowbray and Collins the home record was generally very good with all of them. Old Firm always got a game but there was the odd defeat to Inverness or Livingston that left you baffled but Hibs didn't lose often at home.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Absolutely, and I wouldn’t expect us to win loads of them. I wouldn’t even expect us to win the majority of them. But 2 in 14 is dreadful, especially when at least 4 of them (3 Aberdeen defeats and the Hearts defeat at ER) have been embarrassing.

The issue I think a lot of people have is that 4th and cup semi finals etc is the minimum we should be expecting. To be able to get anything more than the minimum then we really need to improve that record in big games. We’ll never finish above Aberdeen for example if we keep rolling over to them.

There is zero historical evidence to support that idea though. That's the even bigger issue! What you've said is not a minimum expectation. They are our usual expectations and if anything slightly above them. Have a look at this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hibernian_F.C._seasons

We have finished in the top four a total of six times since Eddie Turnbull left Hibs at the end of the 70s.

94-95, 00-01, 04-05, 05-06, 09-10, 17-18.

Jack Ross has got us to cup semi finals in both seasons so far and looks to have us on course to finish 4th for just the seventh time since John Lennon was killed. It's baffling that people pretend this is the minimum expectations for Hibs. :confused: Unless you are seriously suggesting we have underperformed for 85% of the 40 seasons we've had since 1980?

[Allez Hibs]

Well a lot of people are very wrong.

4th and a semi final is absolutely NOT the minimum for Hibs.

Since Mowbray, i think Hibs have finished 4th twice, and both those managers were subsequently sacked and replaced with managers who didnt finish 4th, or even close to it.

4th is the minimum though. Hughes wss fired after it. Ambition / expectation has been watered down from the club so much since relegation in 98 along with the collapse of the Sky deal in early 00s that the club never really allude to it in relation to the size of Hibs within Scottish Football. Now the fans think 4th is some sort of achievement. Aberdeen fired Alex Smith after losing the league to Rangers on the last day of the season in 1991.

[bigwheel]

4th is the minimum though. Hughes wss fired after it. Ambition / expectation has been watered down from the club so much since relegation in 98 along with the collapse of the Sky deal in early 00s that the club never really allude to it in relation to the size of Hibs within Scottish Football. Now the fans think 4th is some sort of achievement. Aberdeen fired Alex Smith after losing the league to Rangers on the last day of the season in 1991.

Nonsense, Hughes was fired in October of the following season after a dreadful run of results....


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[HibeeHibernian4]

4th is the minimum though. Hughes wss fired after it. Ambition / expectation has been watered down from the club so much since relegation in 98 along with the collapse of the Sky deal in early 00s that the club never really allude to it in relation to the size of Hibs within Scottish Football. Now the fans think 4th is some sort of achievement. Aberdeen fired Alex Smith after losing the league to Rangers on the last day of the season in 1991.

Explain to me (if 4th is the minimum) why Hibs have finished 4th just six times since the late 70s?

Also that Alex Smith thing is nonsense he was sacked the following season because Aberdeen went off the rails after Jocky Scott left as his co-manager.

[B.H.F.C]

Well a lot of people are very wrong.

4th and a semi final is absolutely NOT the minimum for Hibs.

Since Mowbray, i think Hibs have finished 4th twice, and both those managers were subsequently sacked and replaced with managers who didnt finish 4th, or even close to it.

It’s obviously not the minimum that has been achieved. But it’s the minimum expectation of what should be achieved (and the club themselves have been vocal about that over the last few years). That’s why managers have lost their job at Hibs with such regularity, for not achieving that as a minimum. Yogi and Lennon were all right whilst challenging for that type of position, as soon as the drop off came we moved on to the next guy.

[bingo70]

There is zero historical evidence to support that idea though. That's the even bigger issue! What you've said is not a minimum expectation. They are our usual expectations and if anything slightly above them. Have a look at this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hibernian_F.C._seasons

We have finished in the top four a total of six times since Eddie Turnbull left Hibs at the end of the 70s.

94-95, 00-01, 04-05, 05-06, 09-10, 17-18.

Jack Ross has got us to cup semi finals in both seasons so far and looks to have us on course to finish 4th for just the seventh time since John Lennon was killed. It's baffling that people pretend this is the minimum expectations for Hibs. :confused: Unless you are seriously suggesting we have underperformed for 85% of the 40 seasons we've had since 1980?

I know there isn’t a direct correlation between finances and league success but probably worth remembering that for the majority of all those seasons there’s been 4 teams spending more than us, and by rights should have a better team. This season there’s only 3 so 4th place is the minimum where we should be this season. There’s nobody below us that I’m thinking we are doing well to be above.

I think there are two different arguments about Ross. I think there’s the people going mental after the last 2 defeats wanting him sacked. I don’t agree with them. Then I think there’s another group that don’t think he’s that good but has earned the right to prove us wrong as he’s got us in a decent enough position so far, even if it has been pretty *****. That’s the category I fall into.

[Allez Hibs]

Explain to me (if 4th is the minimum) why Hibs have finished 4th just six times since the late 70s?

Also that Alex Smith thing is nonsense he was sacked the following season because Aberdeen went off the rails after Jocky Scott left as his co-manager.

So should we celebrate 4th place like Arsenal used to? Will it get us a Champions League place?

[James Stephen]

I’ve seen very few folk ever deny we’re in a better position than when he joined. It’s just that, quite a number of people, don’t particularly enjoy what they’ve seen from his team (that’s been quite consistent even when we were in better form results wise).

As for whether you think his appointment was underwhelming, that’s entirely down to opinion. His appointment didn’t excite me at all. I’m still not particularly excited by him or his team. I also hope he wins the League Cup and prove me wrong.

I appreciate that, and the current team arent brilliant to watch, especially at home.

What they are though, is (last two games excepted!) well structured, well coached and with good players in key positions.

The idea that every Hibs team has to be entertaining is not realistic, and has never been the case.

I want a team to win, do well consistently in league and have a stab at the cups. Thats exactly what Ross has them doing.

Defensive solidity is what consistency is founded upon. People complain about typical Hibs, then moan when a manager tries to make them not typical Hibs, and has largely succeded so far.

Now, if Hibs got to the stage Aberdeen are at, where consistent results in league had been achieved, then id agree Hibs should be looking for more.

But until such times as we are all bored by constant 4th and 3rd place finishes, im happy to win with a minimum of fuss.

Some Hibs fans are basically trying to do exactly what some Hearts fans did when they took the huff with Neilson for losing a cup tie against Hibs, and chased him out when they were 2nd or 3rd in the league. That hasnt worked out well for them.

[James Stephen]

4th is the minimum though. Hughes wss fired after it. Ambition / expectation has been watered down from the club so much since relegation in 98 along with the collapse of the Sky deal in early 00s that the club never really allude to it in relation to the size of Hibs within Scottish Football. Now the fans think 4th is some sort of achievement. Aberdeen fired Alex Smith after losing the league to Rangers on the last day of the season in 1991.

How did that work out for Aberdeen?

You might think 4th should be the minimum, but it is literally and demonstrably not.

[James Stephen]

Nonsense, Hughes was fired in October of the following season after a dreadful run of results....


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And his replacement wasnt exactly an upgrade

*shudders*

[HibeeHibernian4]

Some Hibs fans are basically trying to do exactly what some Hearts fans did when they took the huff with Neilson for losing a cup tie against Hibs, and chased him out when they were 2nd or 3rd in the league. That hasnt worked out well for them.

That's an excellent (and worrying) point. :agree:

[HibeeHibernian4]

I know there isn’t a direct correlation between finances and league success but probably worth remembering that for the majority of all those seasons there’s been 4 teams spending more than us, and by rights should have a better team. This season there’s only 3 so 4th place is the minimum where we should be this season. There’s nobody below us that I’m thinking we are doing well to be above.

Okay that's a fair point so I'll be charitable and extend it to top 5 finishes. Guess what? Only five more of them. So only 11 out of the last 40 years that we've reached "minimum expectations" in the league (and half of them fall below the criteria that some are setting!). Maybe people need to understand that Hibs minimum expectations are clearly top 6 and extended cup runs, but even then we're maddeningly inconsistent enough down the years for that to not be the case every season.

[James Stephen]

It’s obviously not the minimum that has been achieved. But it’s the minimum expectation of what should be achieved (and the club themselves have been vocal about that over the last few years). That’s why managers have lost their job at Hibs with such regularity, for not achieving that as a minimum. Yogi and Lennon were all right whilst challenging for that type of position, as soon as the drop off came we moved on to the next guy.

I agree this year it should be the target. And if it is, its one Hibs are on track to achieve, and still with a chance to exceed.

Hence why the negativity feels way over the top.

[bingo70]

How did that work out for Aberdeen?

You might think 4th should be the minimum, but it is literally and demonstrably not.

Who do you think Hibs could finish behind this season that would make 5th place acceptable?

Other than the old firm there’s Aberdeen, who are better positioned than us to finish 3rd. Anything below 4th this season would be shocking, regardless of what’s happened in the past.

[bigwheel]

And his replacement wasnt exactly an upgrade

*shudders*

You’re so right...between Hughes and Stubbs we had a run of managers that can make nightmares seem fun...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Allez Hibs]

Some Hibs fans are basically trying to do exactly what some Hearts fans did when they took the huff with Neilson for losing a cup tie against Hibs, and chased him out when they were 2nd or 3rd in the league. That hasnt worked out well for them.

Hibs haven't finished 4th yet this season though. Could be a scramble to finish in the top 6 like last season.

Neilson had finished 3rd with Hearts the first season after they were promoted?

[James Stephen]

Who do you think Hibs could finish behind this season that would make 5th place acceptable?

Other than the old firm there’s Aberdeen, who are better positioned than us to finish 3rd. Anything below 4th this season would be shocking, regardless of what’s happened in the past.

Ive said above i agree its the par score for this year.

But the logic that dictates it - 4th biggest budget, so should finish 4th - is the same logic that means 4th is NOT the normal minimum target, as Hibs rarely have the 3rd or 4th biggest budget in the league.

[Allez Hibs]

Who do you think Hibs could finish behind this season that would make 5th place acceptable?

Other than the old firm there’s Aberdeen, who are better positioned than us to finish 3rd. Anything below 4th this season would be shocking, regardless of what’s happened in the past.

And there's no Hearts in the league this season meaning we don't drop as many points.

[James Stephen]

Hibs haven't finished 4th yet this season though. Could be a scramble to finish in the top 6 like last season.

Neilson had finished 3rd with Hearts the first season after they were promoted?

Could be, yes, and that would be an unsuccessful season.

But Hibs could also finish 3rd and win a cup, for the first time since 1972/73.

Why not wait and see before getting all angry and impatient?

[Allez Hibs]

Could be, yes, and that would be an unsuccessful season.

But Hibs could also finish 3rd and win a cup, for the first time since 1972/73.

Why not wait and see before getting all angry and impatient?

Yes, let's hope 👍

[ekhibee]

Absolutely, and I wouldn’t expect us to win loads of them. I wouldn’t even expect us to win the majority of them. But 2 in 14 is dreadful, especially when at least 4 of them (3 Aberdeen defeats and the Hearts defeat at ER) have been embarrassing. For nearly 1/3rd of our big games under him to have been embarrassing defeats really isn’t great.

The issue I think a lot of people have is that 4th and cup semi finals etc is the minimum we should be expecting. To be able to get anything more than the minimum then we really need to improve that record in big games. We’ll never finish above Aberdeen for example if we keep rolling over to them.

Our record in big games was pish a long time before Ross came along. Your points are true, but not new, as different Hibs managers, some of them more popular than Ross, might have had us playing groovy football but we were still losing to teams like Hearts and Aberdeen regularly.

[HibeeHibernian4]

Close, Hearts went through the 05/06 season losing twice at home, once to Celtic 2-3 and once to Aberdeen 1-2.

That same season we lost 7 games at home. Celtic, ICT, Falkirk, Aberdeen, Celtic, ICT and Rangers. We lost at home to ***** that season too. We've been doing it for years.

We also got scudded 3 times out of 5 games v hearts that season, including that semi final.

Which might suggest that Jack Ross should be cut a little bit of slack then since he's actually performing better on that front than almost every other Hibs manager of the past forty-odd years?

He very rarely loses at home to bad teams. These last two defeats have clearly shocked a few people because they were really out of the norm for this team since Ross took over. He's lost four home games against non-Old Firm opposition so far. Once against Aberdeen where a brain fart from Boyle gives them a soft penalty. Once against Hearts where they turned up and outplayed us (not acceptable), then the two defeats in this past week where somebody has made a pretty decent post on another thread that may go some way to explaining it.

[James Stephen]

Yes, let's hope 👍

👍

[basehibby]

It’s obviously not the minimum that has been achieved. But it’s the minimum expectation of what should be achieved (and the club themselves have been vocal about that over the last few years). That’s why managers have lost their job at Hibs with such regularity, for not achieving that as a minimum. Yogi and Lennon were all right whilst challenging for that type of position, as soon as the drop off came we moved on to the next guy.

That's not true at all though - we are one of the top 5 supported clubs in Scotland and should reasonably expect to be there or thereabouts in terms of league placings. So allowing a bit of wiggle room, 6th is a reasonable minimum expectation - anything below that is really not good enough and worthy of questions being asked about how the club's being run.

Any top 4 placing should be considered a successful league campaign for Hibs but sadly they come all too few and far between. I'd love to EXPECT Hibs to have a successful league campaign EVERY season but bitter experience has taught me to EXPECT frequent disappointment in that respect with only occasional flashes of punching our weight or better. I know that's not good enough and hope that the future will hold better. We are going slowly in the right direction I think.

[B.H.F.C]

That's not true at all though - we are one of the top 5 supported clubs in Scotland and should reasonably expect to be there or thereabouts in terms of league placings. So allowing a bit of wiggle room, 6th is a reasonable minimum expectation - anything below that is really not good enough and worthy of questions being asked about how the club's being run.

Any top 4 placing should be considered a successful league campaign for Hibs but sadly they come all too few and far between. I'd love to EXPECT Hibs to have a successful league campaign EVERY season but bitter experience has taught me to EXPECT frequent disappointment in that respect with only occasional flashes of punching our weight or better. I know that's not good enough and hope that the future will hold better. We are going slowly in the right direction I think.

It’s definitely the expectation, the club put it out there all the time about European qualification being the objective. When we don’t do that, or it becomes clear we’re not going to do it, the manager generally changes. We’ve seen managers leave with us sitting in the top half of the league.

[HibeeHibernian4]

It’s definitely the expectation, the club put it out there all the time about European qualification being the objective. When we don’t do that, or it becomes clear we’re not going to do it, the manager generally changes. We’ve seen managers leave with us sitting in the top half of the league.

Not true. As already explained to you, we've not finished in the top four in 34 of the last 40 seasons. It's more than par for the course that Hibs don't finish there very often. Time to accept it and lower your expectations a bit and realise Ross is actually outperforming most Hibs managers of the past four decades. :aok:

[B.H.F.C]

Not true. As already explained to you, we've not finished in the top four in 34 of the last 40 seasons. It's more than par for the course that Hibs don't finish there very often. Time to accept it and lower your expectations a bit and realise Ross is actually outperforming most Hibs managers of the past four decades. :aok:

What’s not true?

You’re confusing what has been achieved with the expectation of what should be achieved.

We all know that Hibs have failed to finish in the top four most of the time. That doesn’t mean that there isn’t an expectation that we should, certainly in modern times with the advantages we have in terms of season ticket numbers, facilities etc.

[calumhibee1]

Not true. As already explained to you, we've not finished in the top four in 34 of the last 40 seasons. It's more than par for the course that Hibs don't finish there very often. Time to accept it and lower your expectations a bit and realise Ross is actually outperforming most Hibs managers of the past four decades. :aok:

The fact we haven’t finished in the top four for 34 of the last 40 seasons has no impact on us going forward. The fact we’ve historically underachieved should in no way be used as an excuse for accepting under achievement going forward. If that’s how we are going to look at it then we should probably be sitting here celebrating a 6th place finish because we quite often don’t even manage that.

As others have pointed out, the club always targets European qualification. When a manager fails to deliver it they inevitably end up getting sacked eventually. Who was the last manager we had that wasn’t sacked or ‘mutually consented’ that didn’t get Europe at some point in their reign? Hecky, Butcher, Fenlon, Calderwood, Mixu, Bobby Williamson, Sauzee, Duffy.. I think every manager in my lifetime that hasn’t qualified for Europe through league placing (other than Stubbs who was poached by Rotherham) has been sacked so the club clearly feel top 4 is the aim regardless of the fact we have historically underachieved.

In a season where Hearts aren’t in the league the argument for top four being the minimum expectation just becomes even stronger.

[Brightside]

What’s not true?

You’re confusing what has been achieved with the expectation of what should be achieved.

We all know that Hibs have failed to finish in the top four most of the time. That doesn’t mean that there isn’t an expectation that we should, certainly in modern times with the advantages we have in terms of season ticket numbers, facilities etc.

Hibs expectation is top6 every year and a semi final. Top 4 is above expectation. Ron wants us to be Top 4 year in year out. That’s a big step forward from the previous 20 years.

[Allez Hibs]

Hibs expectation is top6 every year and a semi final. Top 4 is above expectation. Ron wants us to be Top 4 year in year out. That’s a big step forward from the previous 20 years.

A club of Hibs size happy with finishing in the top 6? 👀

[Magpie]

The fact we haven’t finished in the top four for 34 of the last 40 seasons has no impact on us going forward. The fact we’ve historically underachieved should in no way be used as an excuse for accepting under achievement going forward. If that’s how we are going to look at it then we should probably be sitting here celebrating a 6th place finish because we quite often don’t even manage that.

As others have pointed out, the club always targets European qualification. When a manager fails to deliver it they inevitably end up getting sacked eventually. Who was the last manager we had that wasn’t sacked or ‘mutually consented’ that didn’t get Europe at some point in their reign? Hecky, Butcher, Fenlon, Calderwood, Mixu, Bobby Williamson, Sauzee, Duffy.. I think every manager in my lifetime that hasn’t qualified for Europe through league placing (other than Stubbs who was poached by Rotherham) has been sacked so the club clearly feel top 4 is the aim regardless of the fact we have historically underachieved.

In a season where Hearts aren’t in the league the argument for top four being the minimum expectation just becomes even stronger.

👌

[Magpie]

This is going to be a huge month. Celtic, Kilmarnock, Rangers and a semi final.

Lose all four then it’s certainly not looking promising.

[Steve20]

This is going to be a huge month. Celtic, Kilmarnock, Rangers and a semi final.

Lose all four then it’s certainly not looking promising.

Yep. Although I've got a feeling we will get something against Rangers and win the semi final. Not sure why, but it would be a Hibs thing to do, lose to County and Livi and then beat Rangers.

[flash]

This is going to be a huge month. Celtic, Kilmarnock, Rangers and a semi final.

Lose all four then it’s certainly not looking promising.

That's the spirit.

[Magpie]

Yep. Although I've got a feeling we will get something against Rangers and win the semi final. Not sure why, but it would be a Hibs thing to do, lose to County and Livi and then beat Rangers.

Semi final is the big one. Realistically don’t expect anything from Celtic or Rangers but we should be taking something from Kilmarnock who we have beaten twice this season already.

[Magpie]

That's the spirit.

It’s true though.

[Peevemor]

It’s true though.

And if we lose all our games between now and the end of the season? That won't look promising either will it?

[Magpie]

And if we lose all our games between now and the end of the season? That won't look promising either will it?

Obviously because we are losing every game we play.

[Peevemor]

Obviously because we are losing every game we play.

Ah OK. Thanks for that.

[Fergus52]

Why just the first 3? If you’re discounting the first 3 then I think you need to discount the 4th as well, was also before his first transfer window wasn’t it?

There is a lot of fine margins in the games, as you say, the semi final in particular that’s true.

I think the concerning thing is that he came to us with that reputation and it’s continued with us. At what point does that become no longer a coincidence and something he’s not doing right in terms of how he prepares and motivates the team before a big game?

Every time I write a post like this I hope it’s acting as a sort of hex that’ll get thrown back at me as soon as we win a big game again. I’d love it if we were to win the league cup but I really don’t think we will.

I think Ross is probably an excellent coach and I don’t doubt the players love him, I think he’s a sensible guy that knows football inside out. I am not convinced he’s a great motivator though.

I think the two points I've highlighted can be linked. Agree with your assessment of Ross at the end, seems like he isn't the best motivator and that's not just shown in big games, a few of our sub par performances against weaker times the players have looked a bit disinterested and sloppy.

I don't think that issue is exclusive to 'big games' and I don't think its fair to be including our games against the old firm in 'something he's not doing right' when as a whole our performances against the old firm this season have been pretty good.

[Fergus52]

You could maybe put it down to bad luck if it didn’t keep happening in big games - if we managed to win more than 2 in 14 then you could have said the Celtic game was bad luck, or the semi final even. Unfortunately it happens with alarming frequency that we don’t manage to win big games. That would suggest it’s not just bad luck.

I just think 2 in 14 is misleading when it includes games against the old firm, which we aren't expected to get anything from, where we have played very well and came away with a point, or been narrowly defeated. I've not had a problem with the tactics, team selection, motivation of the players or general performance in any of the games against the OF this season.

[MWHIBBIES]

This is going to be a huge month. Celtic, Kilmarnock, Rangers and a semi final.

Lose all four then it’s certainly not looking promising.

What if we win all 4?

[MWHIBBIES]

Obviously because we are losing every game we play.

We lost 3 in a week. We've won A LOT more than we've lost this season.

[Coco Bryce]

What if we win all 4?

Jack Ross will be the new Celtic Boss.

[Since452]

We should lose to Celtic and Rangers. Won't cry about it if we do. The semi is the big one for me.

[Magpie]

What if we win all 4?

Then we are looking well on course to having a successful season.

[Magpie]

We lost 3 in a week. We've won A LOT more than we've lost this season.

If we lose another 3 league games this month then the gap will start to narrow between us and 5th, if we lose the semi final too then that’s going to have a massive dent in confidence. I would genuinely be worried about even making top four if we come out of this month without a win.

[GreenCastle]

With the gap we created between 4th and 5th losing 4th by the end of the season is definitely under performing.

Hibs aren’t going to win the league any time in near future - the cups are the only chances of silverware. Sad reality but true.

I’m not falling into the league cup is the wee cup (co-incidence the club which hasn’t won it for so long started this nonsense). Of course the Scottish is the main cup tournament but the league cup is still a fantastic achievement.

My point is the semi final is an important game for Jack Ross. It’s winnable and a chance to give us a shot at winning another cup.

IF we make the final that’s another huge test to see if management and players have the motivation / mindset / quality to win it.

If we lose either of these games then it’s a serious opportunity missed and fans have every right to seriously question those involved.

I can rightly see why fans are concerned - I just hope the players / management and owner realise what a great opportunity we have here as could you imagine the boost it gives the fans and club during these tough times.

[Brightside]

A club of Hibs size happy with finishing in the top 6? 👀

Where have you been?

[Magpie]

Tick tock

[Heisenberg]

Tick tock

He’s not going anywhere anytime soon.

[MWHIBBIES]

Tick tock

Hibs aren't sacking a manager while we're 4th. ''tick tock'' isn't true and honestly, its a really bizarre thing for a Hibs fan to come out with. Its like you actively want him to fail.

[Magpie]

Hibs aren't sacking a manager while we're 4th. ''tick tock'' isn't true and honestly, its a really bizarre thing for a Hibs fan to come out with. Its like you actively want him to fail.

I want Hibs to win every game. I’m disappointed because we have bottled two of the biggest games this season against teams with lower quality than us. He’s a bottle merchant.

[mentalhibee]

Sack this loser!

[SaulGoodman]

Aggregate score against Ross county, livi and St J is 8-0

**** off

[we are hibs]

"Some aspects of our performance were really pleasing"

[H18 SFR]

Who do we go for to replace Ross? I can’t think of anyone out there.

[GreenCastle]

Mentality of the club accepts defeats like this.

If we were ruthless we would make players / managers aware this isn’t acceptable.

Instead we will have the “didn’t take chances chat.”

I don’t want excuses this is simply not good enough - stupid / risky team selection and it didn’t work.

[Fergus52]

Aggregate score against Ross county, livi and St J is 8-0

**** off

Nice random 3 games you've picked there.

Our aggregate against killie Motherwell and Hamilton is 9-0

[Skol]

This isnt a good result.

But if we get rid of Ross we risk another Butcher, Fenlon, Calderwood, Heckingbottom type appointment which would leave us in a much worse position.

[Steven79]

He can GTF after this, that's the second winnable semi in a row that he's bottled now.

No fight after their first goal went in.

[Magpie]

Who do we go for to replace Ross? I can’t think of anyone out there.

Anyone who can save us from dropping out of the top four.

[Tambo]

I've seen alot worse managers but as a few have said thats 2 semi finals we should have won.

Where do we go from here as on form we will be lucky to make top 6.

[ScottB]

4th is not good. 4th, with the 3rd or 4th biggest budget in the league, is a passing grade. Though given our and Livi’s recent form, we won’t be 4th for long.

Worse when you look above at Celtic and Aberdeen struggling.

Ross has had more than enough time and budget to show us who he is and what he can do. I’ve seen more than enough.

[Hibi]

The only criticism I would aim at Ross was changing formation after the second goal. Up until then we had easily been the better side, but were poor in front of either goal which was solely down to the players. Of course Porteous won’t take any flack despite being missing twice.

[JohnM1875]

He's not the answer. Finishing 4th in this current league isn't an achievement. Absolute murder to watch

[Magpie]

I've seen alot worse managers but as a few have said thats 2 semi finals we should have won.

Where do we go from here as on form we will be lucky to make top 6.

It would be silly to believe in the current form we will finish top four. Rangers next...

[GreenCastle]

The only criticism I would aim at Ross was changing formation after the second goal. Up until then we had easily been the better side, but were poor in front of either goal which was solely down to the players. Of course Porteous won’t take any flack despite being missing twice.

What about the team selection that had never played together before with 2 guys not match fit

[hibeedonald]

Jack Ross out, if we can afford it I would sack him tomorrow.

We have good players, he cant get them organised.

[neil7908]

Time to go Jack.

[Iain G]

Jack Ross out, if we can afford it I would sack him tomorrow.

We have good players, he cant get them organised.

Love to see John Collins with this squad

[Wheat Hound]

Rosd should go. He won't.....until season tic numbers dwindle and the board will act.

[SHODAN]

He has until the end of the season to get us into Europe, which will be tough as our two remaining ties against Aberdeen will be defeats.

We'll go in on the final day needing a point for fourth and end up getting beat 4-0 at home to Livi or sonething.

[Hibees1973]

My gut feeling is it is best Ross goes now.

Overseeing 2 disasterous semi finals is unforgivable. What a opportunity we were given after favourable cup draws. Any future loss against an allegedly inferior team will create a toxic atmosphere which will gradually wear him and the club down.

With the money he has been given to sign players it is not a major achievement being 4th in the league.

Our biggest weakness is in the centre of defence which he has not addressed. Ross continually signs midfielders who are no better than what we have.

Cannot see Ross being given anymore money to sign players.

After tonight he is a dead man walking.

[Magpie]

My gut feeling is it is best Ross goes now.

Overseeing 2 disasterous semi finals is unforgivable. What a opportunity we were given after favourable cup draws. Any future loss against an allegedly inferior team will create a toxic atmosphere which will gradually wear him and the club down.

With the money he has been given to sign players it is not a major achievement being 4th in the league.

Our biggest weakness is in the centre of defence which he has not addressed. Ross continually signs midfielders who are no better than what we have.

Cannot see Ross being given anymore money to sign players.

After tonight he is a dead man walking.

Dead man walking from the moment we lost a championship Hearts.

[Hibi]

What about the team selection that had never played together before with 2 guys not match fit

With the injuries we’ve had in the middle of the park he’d didn’t have many choices. Most fans agreed Mallan isn’t the answer. The back 3 had played together many times but for some reason couldn’t defend set plays well enough.

[Hibiza]

Ross is totally unable to change the flow of a game. Proved it time after time. Tactically inept.

[PortoHSC]

That was absolutely pathetic, seriously questioning wether or not jack ross can take us forward. Thinking since he has came in we have had no style of play or identity. The players we have shouldn’t be getting beaten to st johnstone never mind being beaten 3-0 especially in a semi final. Absolutely mortified by that

[BSEJVT]

With the injuries we’ve had in the middle of the park he’d didn’t have many choices. Most fans agreed Mallan isn’t the answer. The back 3 had played together many times but for some reason couldn’t defend set plays well enough.

Sorry but that is utter crap, that is the most midfield choices I have ever seen a Hibs team have with only Newall missing.

Today wasn't the game to go all experimental with untried players.

He panicked big time when the second went in and we were considerably worse for his changes.

Only Rocky ( who had no chance with any of the goals) Doig (although he had another torrid time defensively) and Irvine emerge from that with reputations relatively intact

[Hiber-nation]

Some individuals were dreadful tonight and have no excuses. But he picks them, he signs them and it'll ultimately fall on him to explain himself. To be humped 3-0 by a team so far below us in a National semi final is an utter disgrace and the 2nd half was just embarrassing. The subs were panic stations.

[Alfred E Newman]

That was absolutely pathetic, seriously questioning wether or not jack ross can take us forward. Thinking since he has came in we have had no style of play or identity. The players we have shouldn’t be getting beaten to st johnstone never mind being beaten 3-0 especially in a semi final. Absolutely mortified by that

I wonder if we will get an interview. More of the " pleased with some aspects of the game" "dust ourselves down" rubbish.

[Dashing Bob S]

Embarrassing

[bringbackbenny]

I want Hibs to win every game. I’m disappointed because we have bottled two of the biggest games this season against teams with lower quality than us. He’s a bottle merchant.

and that's sacking material? maybe a wee bit early for that?

[Roxyhibee]

Any Hibs fan recoiling in horror at the suggestion of Jack Ross being shown the door is hiding behind calling other fans “bedwetters” and not wanting the (reasonable) best for a club with a generous budget in comparison to other teams who are now regularly beating us. This Hibs team and manager are nice but VERY soft and I honestly can’t make out what you are seeing otherwise. I’ll support Hibs, season ticket, HSL, everything, but this current situation lacking serious bottle is indefensible and not going to get any better.

[green day]

and that's sacking material? maybe a wee bit early for that?

When then?

4th, 5th, bottom 6? Relegation battle?

He has lost the fans and I wouldn't be surprised if the players are just coasting now til he's booted.

[green day]

8 goals shipped to Livi, Ross C, St J.

Let that sink in......

[Winston Ingram]

With the injuries we’ve had in the middle of the park he’d didn’t have many choices. Most fans agreed Mallan isn’t the answer. The back 3 had played together many times but for some reason couldn’t defend set plays well enough.

Eh? Cos Joe Newell was injured? He had plenty options.

Joe Newell played when Hughes and Martindale schooled him. He’s got a phenomenal squad.


Alarm bells started ringing for me when we lost to Hearts at ER.

Everyone knew how to beat them. Pace over the top. Not this idiot. He sticks Boyle at wing back, 50 yards away from their back line. Did he notice this and change it? Did he f...

Ross can gtf.

[supermcginn]

He's not cut out for a big club. St mirren is his ceiling.

[cabbageandribs1875]

jack ross "Angry"


a few players on that pitch tonight should be the angry ones...with themselves...no pride whatsoever after that early 2nd goal...none


if they think they're too good to be at our club then it's THEM that can go **** off

[southern hibby]

Said this to my mates a few times but I genuinely think he sets a team up for a small pitch. We have done better on the road with smaller pitches than we have with bigger ones for example ER and hampden.

We have players that look like they only ever win a second ball on smaller pitches and as for passing again ( in my mind at least ) we seem to do better on smaller pitches.

As for why I think of Jack Ross not a lot to be honest. Yes he’s got us to 4th at the moment but will that last till the end of the season? I genuinely don’t know if it will with displays like I’ve just watched.

GGTTH

[Crab apple]

For me it's too soon to be sacking JR although I can understand why some are frustrated after we've capitulated in two semi finals in a row to weaker opposition. We're doing okay in the league and on paper most of JR's signings are good. However, we're badly leacking leadership, drive and gallusness on the pitch. Everything is safe and vanilla and that reflects the personalities of our manager and captain. With Gray and McGregor no longer involved we need to being in some experience, cockiness and fight. A Scott Brown type. A Jason Cummings. A Graeme Shinnie type.

[Robbo6-2]

I actually thought we were better side until he changed formation. But on the flip side, we went into a NATIONAL cup semi final and played a formation we have never played all season to match up against St ******g Johnstone.

Martin Boyle on set pieces (first time all season)

Letting Paul Hanlon still have a line in his hair aged 32.

All sackable offences

[JohnM1875]

He's done at Hibs. Doesn't matter where he finishes this season, two semi final results and performances in other bigger games will count against him.

Shame, like him as a guy. Won't take us any further forward as a manager.

[Hibi]

Eh? Cos Joe Newell was injured? He had plenty options.

Joe Newell played when Hughes and Martindale schooled him. He’s got a phenomenal squad.


Alarm bells started ringing for me when we lost to Hearts at ER.

Everyone knew how to beat them. Pace over the top. Not this idiot. He sticks Boyle at wing back, 50 yards away from their back line. Did he notice this and change it? Did he f...

Ross can gtf.

Cause Ross is the first manger to lose to Hearts at home. He inherited a midfield that was too soft. He wanted McRorie but couldn’t get him, had to settle for just gogic. Irvine is a strong signing with the right attributes to make us a stronger side.

Boyle has played a few positions this year, but for whatever reason he has been pretty poor since signing a new deal.

[burtis97]

Absolute disgrace! Reaction to a simple question from a reporter and he flies off the handle like that he’s paid to win football matches and he’s not doing that when it matters most! Once we take nothing against Rangers on Wednesday where do we go from there ?

[calumhibee1]

I actually thought we were better side until he changed formation. But on the flip side, we went into a NATIONAL cup semi final and played a formation we have never played all season to match up against St ******g Johnstone.

Martin Boyle on set pieces (first time all season)

Letting Paul Hanlon still have a line in his hair aged 32.

All sackable offences

We were the better side until we went 1-0 down imo.

Over the game though St Johnstone were the much better team and deserved the win. I’m not even sure I’d say the scoreline flattered them.

[matty_f]

We were the better side until we went 1-0 down imo.

Over the game though St Johnstone were the much better team and deserved the win. I’m not even sure I’d say the scoreline flattered them.

Scoreline flattered us. First half, i don’t have any real issues with.

Second half was as bad as it gets. All that was missing was someone losing the head and getting sent off, but actually none of them had enough about them to even do that.

Sickening performance, and for all I’ve defended him, if he wants to lose the “can’t win big games” tag then he needs to start winning some big games.

[Gmack7]

Sorry but hes just not good enough that was embarrassing. selection, Formation tactics I've no idea what any of them were. Cadden, Irvine, Allan and Magennis had the sum total of hee haw top flight football but all had lengthy spells on the park tonight. Totally baffling and desperate. We're 4th in the worst PL in recent memory we should never be below that.

[bigwheel]

Sorry but hes just not good enough that was embarrassing. selection, Formation tactics I've no idea what any of them were. Cadden, Irvine, Allan and Magennis had the sum total of hee haw top flight football but all had lengthy spells on the park tonight. Totally baffling and desperate. We're 4th in the worst PL in recent memory we should never be below that.

You missed out that Irvine was our only decent player from your post ....

[SaulGoodman]

Good win percentage. Shambles of a league, dire football and bottled every big game we’ve played.

[Winston Ingram]

Cause Ross is the first manger to lose to Hearts at home. He inherited a midfield that was too soft. He wanted McRorie but couldn’t get him, had to settle for just gogic. Irvine is a strong signing with the right attributes to make us a stronger side.

Boyle has played a few positions this year, but for whatever reason he has been pretty poor since signing a new deal.

That’s clearly not what I said.

We lost to an awful Hearts team that was getting pumped by everyone in the same way. Yet this clown thought, I’ll do it differently and played right into their hands.

As for Boyle, he’s played a few positions but he’s best wide of a front 3. He’s always been an average centre forward, always been an average wing back, he’s never been decent behind the striker and barely even reaches the standard of a professional footballer on the left, yet every week, he’s a victim of this clowns tactical roulette 🤡

[Gmack7]

You missed out that Irvine was our only decent player from your post ....

Of course he was he had a good game . And the other 3 will hopefully turn out to be great players for us going forward but it was desperation to play them all today. It actually looked like he was just giving Allan and Magennis some minutes to build their fitness

[#2 Double Tap]

Hibs aren't sacking a manager while we're 4th. ''tick tock'' isn't true and honestly, its a really bizarre thing for a Hibs fan to come out with. Its like you actively want him to fail.

he has already failed in a lot of peoples eyes.

[hfc-1875]

Absolute bottle merchant in big games and horrible style of football. The guy is a mouse

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Any Hibs fan recoiling in horror at the suggestion of Jack Ross being shown the door is hiding behind calling other fans “bedwetters” and not wanting the (reasonable) best for a club with a generous budget in comparison to other teams who are now regularly beating us. This Hibs team and manager are nice but VERY soft and I honestly can’t make out what you are seeing otherwise. I’ll support Hibs, season ticket, HSL, everything, but this current situation lacking serious bottle is indefensible and not going to get any better.

After going 1-0 down though given how we’d played was wetting the bed imo. If we want the players to have a bit more about themselves then surely we should ourselves? A bit of reflection is a good thing. In the heat of the moment is rarely the best time. That said I am running out of patience. For me one of the striking things pre-match was the difference in demeanour between Davidson and Ross. Who would I want to play for... on that performance Davidson.

[Hibees1973]

Ross and the recruitment guys have lost the plot from what i can see.

Know we are Hibs and are unable to sign in-form players for big money. However, of our recent signings most have a serious question about them. For example, they are either recovering from serious injuries (Magennis/Murphy), have a good reputation which is in the past (Cadden) or have not played for a considerable amount of time (Irvine).

I fully understand signing new players is a gamble and there are no 100% guarantees. Irvine was one of our better players tonight, not difficult, but surely Ross and the recruitment people can do better than this.

We are 4th, but looking over our shoulder. Two winable semi finals defeats will have seriously damaged the players confidence in each other and Ross.

Our owner must have serious doubts about handing more money to Ross. With Dempster away and a replacement for her yet, we appear rudderless and after the last couple of months at a crossroads.

Ross will need a few wins in the next four or five games to move back into 3rd in the table to give himself some breathing space.

However, I feel the support has now turned against him and it is now only a matter of time before he is gone.

[gazzag70]

Really had high hopes for Ross, that was totally unacceptable though. He can’t win big games and his derby record is unacceptable therefore he must go.

[GreenCastle]

St Johnstone semi final - 3-0
Ross County league loss
St Johnstone recently at ER
Alloa late goal - mince performance
Dundee Utd dropping points - late goals
Semi Final v Hearts
Sheep x 2. This season
Sheep x1 last season
Motherwell at home.
Clinging on at home after being 3 up against Hamilton.
Derby last season at ER - awful performance
Livi at home
BetFred cup group stages - some of the performances were awful ( I know we won the group but still issues)

Add in the Drey Wright - the 55 / 50 min subs he regularly does, lack of goals at home (crap home record).

His team selection today..Cadden and Irvine aren’t fit. Boyle doesn’t play through middle. Allan was never ready to come on. Why drop Gray from squad even for his experience and influence. Gullan no minutes - Hallberg who has been fine no minutes.

This is not good reading and I’ve lost faith in him and the players. Mentally weak and the manager has players that won’t stand up to him and definitely won’t stand up to others = constantly get bullied and lose important games.

[Swedish hibee]

He's fast running out of ideas- his after match radio interview tonight proved that.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

St Johnstone semi final - 3-0
Ross County league loss
St Johnstone recently at ER
Alloa late goal - mince performance
Dundee Utd dropping points - late goals
Semi Final v Hearts
Sheep x 2. This season
Sheep x1 last season
Motherwell at home.
Clinging on at home after being 3 up against Hamilton.
Derby last season at ER - awful performance
Livi at home
BetFred cup group stages - some of the performances were awful ( I know we won the group but still issues)

Add in the Drey Wright - the 55 / 50 min subs he regularly does, lack of goals at home (crap home record).

His team selection today..Cadden and Irvine aren’t fit. Boyle doesn’t play through middle. Allan was never ready to come on. Why drop Gray from squad even for his experience and influence. Gullan no minutes - Hallberg who has been fine no minutes.

This is not good reading and I’ve lost faith in him and the players. Mentally weak and the manager has players that won’t stand up to him and definitely won’t stand up to others = constantly get bullied and lose important games.

When you list it like that he’s pretty hopeless.

[JohnM1875]

St Johnstone semi final - 3-0
Ross County league loss
St Johnstone recently at ER
Alloa late goal - mince performance
Dundee Utd dropping points - late goals
Semi Final v Hearts
Sheep x 2. This season
Sheep x1 last season
Motherwell at home.
Clinging on at home after being 3 up against Hamilton.
Derby last season at ER - awful performance
Livi at home
BetFred cup group stages - some of the performances were awful ( I know we won the group but still issues)

Add in the Drey Wright - the 55 / 50 min subs he regularly does, lack of goals at home (crap home record).

His team selection today..Cadden and Irvine aren’t fit. Boyle doesn’t play through middle. Allan was never ready to come on. Why drop Gray from squad even for his experience and influence. Gullan no minutes - Hallberg who has been fine no minutes.

This is not good reading and I’ve lost faith in him and the players. Mentally weak and the manager has players that won’t stand up to him and definitely won’t stand up to others = constantly get bullied and lose important games.

Oft. That is so bleak!!

To try and balance it out, what would be the positives;

2-0 win at tynie
4-0 Livi win
a couple decent performances at home against the old firm.

Struggling after that to be honest. I'm sure there's a few I'm missing out. It's annoying, cause I honestly really like the guy. Just not sure he can redeem himself from what you've posted.

[Hermit Crab]

Jack Ross
Jack Loss
Jack Dross

Whatever you want to call him he's not taking us forward as a club. We are embarrassingly bad in big games and dreadful to watch in most other matches, he's doing his best to surrender 4th place to Livvy as well, 3 weeks time and we will likely be 5th. He picks the team, he gives the instructions, he's incapable of changing a game to make us better. He changed the shape at 1-0 and made us worse. By the time 60 minutes came round and we were 3-0 down it was hard to tell what formation we were playing. He has to go. Season pretty ****ed now anyway.

[PH91]

That’s clearly not what I said.

We lost to an awful Hearts team that was getting pumped by everyone in the same way. Yet this clown thought, I’ll do it differently and played right into their hands.

As for Boyle, he’s played a few positions but he’s best wide of a front 3. He’s always been an average centre forward, always been an average wing back, he’s never been decent behind the striker and barely even reaches the standard of a professional footballer on the left, yet every week, he’s a victim of this clowns tactical roulette 🤡

Boyle has never played wide of a front 3 consistently never mind consistently well. He was an exceptional wingback under lennon.

His best attribute is his ability to carry the ball up the park, something he doesn't get much opportunity to do played in a front 2 or 3. And even when not on form he always puts in a lot of running. Wingback every time for me.

[BegbieHSC]

I’ve calmed down a bit now, and I’ve concluded at this stage I don’t think Jack Ross should be sacked right now.
I would say his jacket’s on a shooglie peg, and we do need to see much better.
I can’t see the chaos of getting a new manager in helping our bid for Europe, which at this stage is still well on track, though. We’ve blown a very winnable competition, but again we’re still well on track for qualifying for Europe, and I’m not willing to right us off for the Scottish cup before we’ve even kicked a ball.

I’d say let’s re-evaluate at the end of the season, and consider whether JR is the right man to match our ambitions in the summer.

[MrRobot]

Boyle has never played wide of a front 3 consistently never mind consistently well. He was an exceptional wingback under lennon.

His best attribute is his ability to carry the ball up the park, something he doesn't get much opportunity to do played in a front 2 or 3. And even when not on form he always puts in a lot of running. Wingback every time for me.

Boyle is highly overrated. On his day he can be great but that isn’t anywhere near often enough. He has gone from an impact sub to an automatic starter which is not reflective of his performances, especially this season.

[bingo70]

Boyle is highly overrated. On his day he can be great but that isn’t anywhere near often enough. He has gone from an impact sub to an automatic starter which is not reflective of his performances, especially this season.

Boyle is class.

Unfortunately, we need to play a way that will get the best out of him.

Having no actual game plan other than hoping Boyle and/or Murphy can create something out of nothing won’t work.

He’s a winger, not a striker and not a wing back. To get the best out of him we need to control the midfield and get him either one on one with the full back or getting balls in behind the full back.

Just lumping the ball in his direction and hoping for the best is pish.

[GreenCastle]

Oft. That is so bleak!!

To try and balance it out, what would be the positives;

2-0 win at tynie
4-0 Livi win
a couple decent performances at home against the old firm.

Struggling after that to be honest. I'm sure there's a few I'm missing out. It's annoying, cause I honestly really like the guy. Just not sure he can redeem himself from what you've posted.

2-0 derby win against a terrible Hearts team.

Aberdeen 3-0 win at ER - Dons missing players and worst I’ve seen them in years.

We have had a few wins away against Livi / Killie / Motherwell but again all at times when they were struggling really - 2 out the 3 have new managers now !!!

You could argue we blew points especially against Celtic conceding late at home then the covid game when I agree Celtic starting team still decent but still a massive opportunity to win for first time for years at Celtic park and opportunity missed again.

Managers need games to get credit in the bank - his current credit rating is really bad. 4th doesn’t do much considering it’s the minimum expected.

I didn’t expect us to win tonight but I never though we would get beaten 3-0 and could easily have been more. Yes we had chances but didn’t take them - 3-0 isn’t a lucky result just because we played well for 30 mins.

[Nicho87]

He should resign and save his own skin / career

[neil7908]

8 goals shipped to Livi, Ross C, St J.

Let that sink in......

With 0 scored.

We are a team that is struggling to score and continually losing sloppy goals. That never ends well.

[Dmas]

Boyle is class.

Unfortunately, we need to play a way that will get the best out of him.

Having no actual game plan other than hoping Boyle and/or Murphy can create something out of nothing won’t work.

He’s a winger, not a striker and not a wing back. To get the best out of him we need to control the midfield and get him either one on one with the full back or getting balls in behind the full back.

Just lumping the ball in his direction and hoping for the best is pish.

This has been the downfall IMO, JR’s persistence with a formation that suits very little of our squad, 442. Yes we’ve got results and it’s a good position in the league but the performances have been battling and scrappy all the way through the season it’s not that we’ve tactically out thought or flowing football, it’s been a grind with sometimes good fortune.
Gogic, Boyle, Mallan, Allan, Murphy all players that don’t suit 442 definitely IMO could make an argument for Doidge’s poor season being down to it too.
Defensive performance as well we loose the midfield battle too easy with the 2 in the middle, huge pressure on the centre backs, Boyle Murphy/Wright offer little to no full back protection out wide, and add that to the way we constantly stand off teams.

We’re needing to give ourselves half a chance and play to the strengths we’ve got, and the players need to have a look as well I’m not convinced by JR however I’d like to think he’s not telling the team to go out and stand off as much as they are doing and I’d like to hope he’s pressing them
To play with a bit more urgency, to easily out worked

[el hibs]

'Why drop Gray from squad even for his experience and influence.'

Dropping Gray from the bench is massive for me. He's club captain. I thought he was injured. Hampden and Gray are forever in the memory. But didnt see him on the tv footage.

Strange move especially as Allan is not ready he should not be on the bench.

Far to many players playing with less than a match in there legs over the last month... e.g a pre season team.

Ross has lost a formation and tactic and settled team that works.

You want your captains voice in the changing room.

As manager, he just chucked all the forward on with no thought about how to create. Losing the goal on 48 mins didnt mean ripping up the attacking tactics which in comparison worked in the first half. You have talked all of half time about what to do next. Then give up on that after 3 mins... when all you need to focus on is getting the next goal.

[Crab apple]

'Why drop Gray from squad even for his experience and influence.'

Dropping Gray from the bench is massive for me. He's club captain. I thought he was injured. Hampden and Gray are forever in the memory. But didnt see him on the tv footage.

Strange move especially as Allan is not ready he should not be on the bench.

Far to many players playing with less than a match in there legs over the last month... e.g a pre season team.

Ross has lost a formation and tactic and settled team that works.

You want your captains voice in the changing room.

As manager, he just chucked all the forward on with no thought about how to create. Losing the goal on 48 mins didnt mean ripping up the attacking tactics which in comparison worked in the first half. You have talked all of half time about what to do next. Then give up on that after 3 mins... when all you need to focus on is getting the next goal.

We’re badly lacking leadership, experience and fight on the pitch. Gray and McGregor’s influence has never properly been replaced. John McGinn and Cummings also brought their own confidence to the team. JR is creating a team in his own mould. Safe, organised and badly lacking bottle when the going gets tough.

[hibsbollah]

Jack Ross
Jack Loss
Jack Dross

Whatever you want to call him he's not taking us forward as a club. We are embarrassingly bad in big games and dreadful to watch in most other matches, he's doing his best to surrender 4th place to Livvy as well, 3 weeks time and we will likely be 5th. He picks the team, he gives the instructions, he's incapable of changing a game to make us better. He changed the shape at 1-0 and made us worse. By the time 60 minutes came round and we were 3-0 down it was hard to tell what formation we were playing. He has to go. Season pretty ****ed now anyway.


What’s embarrassing is this chat. Making up shan, unfunny dad jokes about his name and then saying ‘whatever you want to call him’. It’s actually getting like Donald Trump saying he’s heard some people call Covid ‘Kung flu’.

Its why your posts always read as if you’re enjoying yourself when we lose.

[easty]

Jack Ross
Jack Loss
Jack Dross

Whatever you want to call him he's not taking us forward as a club. We are embarrassingly bad in big games and dreadful to watch in most other matches, he's doing his best to surrender 4th place to Livvy as well, 3 weeks time and we will likely be 5th. He picks the team, he gives the instructions, he's incapable of changing a game to make us better. He changed the shape at 1-0 and made us worse. By the time 60 minutes came round and we were 3-0 down it was hard to tell what formation we were playing. He has to go. Season pretty ****ed now anyway.

What’s embarrassing is that you’re in your thirty’s and not 13 years old, which would be the only excuse for this kind of post.

[Chuck Rhoades]

What’s embarrassing is that you’re in your thirty’s and not 13 years old, which would be the only excuse for this kind of post.

Personally attacking another Hibs fan for posting his opinion? There’s only one thing that’s embarrassing here...

GreenCastle’s post earlier nails it. Full of facts:

Originally Posted by GreenCastle:
St Johnstone semi final - 3-0
Ross County league loss
St Johnstone recently at ER
Alloa late goal - mince performance
Dundee Utd dropping points - late goals
Semi Final v Hearts
Sheep x 2. This season
Sheep x1 last season
Motherwell at home.
Clinging on at home after being 3 up against Hamilton.
Derby last season at ER - awful performance
Livi at home
BetFred cup group stages - some of the performances were awful ( I know we won the group but still issues)

Add in the Drey Wright - the 55 / 50 min subs he regularly does, lack of goals at home (crap home record).

His team selection today..Cadden and Irvine aren’t fit. Boyle doesn’t play through middle. Allan was never ready to come on. Why drop Gray from squad even for his experience and influence. Gullan no minutes - Hallberg who has been fine no minutes.

This is not good reading and I’ve lost faith in him and the players. Mentally weak and the manager has players that won’t stand up to him and definitely won’t stand up to others = constantly get bullied and lose important games.
When you list it like that he’s pretty hopeles

[easty]

Personally attacking another Hibs fan for posting his opinion? There’s only one thing that’s embarrassing here...


Attacking? Where?

Your grasp of language seems about as firm as your grip on reality (see your Ron Gordon nonsense thread).

There’s your personal attack...

[B.H.F.C]

That wasn’t a freak, one off performance. We’ve won a few league games because we have better players than most of the other teams. The likes of Nisbet can pull something out of the bag. But we’re not a team, it’s just a collection of individuals and he doesn’t know how to get the best from them as a unit. If we score first we’re all right, our record after going behind is appalling though.

We have blown two massive opportunities in cups and also the opportunity to push Celtic in the league, for a Champions League place. I’m not saying we should be finishing second or anything like that, but there was an opportunity there this year that won’t be there again for a long time.

[hibbysam]

Really had high hopes for Ross, that was totally unacceptable though. He can’t win big games and his derby record is unacceptable therefore he must go.

He’s only had 3 derbies and won 1 of them away from home, losing another in extra time by virtue of a missed penalty, it’s hardly unacceptable. It can improve but regardless whether we like it or not, we will win some and lose some to teams with similar budgets to ourselves.

[calumhibee1]

He’s only had 3 derbies and won 1 of them away from home, losing another in extra time by virtue of a missed penalty, it’s hardly unacceptable. It can improve but regardless whether we like it or not, we will win some and lose some to teams with similar budgets to ourselves.

It’s unacceptable when one of them was an absolute going over at home to Hearts who were bottom of the league and the other was yet another Hampden defeat to Hearts - this time from the lower leagues.

[hibbysam]

It’s unacceptable when one of them was an absolute going over at home to Hearts who were bottom of the league and the other was yet another Hampden defeat to Hearts - this time from the lower leagues.

We also pumped them at Tynecastle, a place I’ve seen us win a handful of times. Regardless of their position, their squad is built on similar foundations to ours in terms of resource and results will be split against them. Expecting us to beat them every time is unrealistic in football.

[calumhibee1]

We also pumped them at Tynecastle, a place I’ve seen us win a handful of times. Regardless of their position, their squad is built on similar foundations to ours in terms of resource and results will be split against them. Expecting us to beat them every time is unrealistic in football.

We did. But how many times have hearts been relegated in your time? The result at tynecastle was a great result, no doubting that. But the other two were absolutely horrific results.

Nobody expects us to beat them every time. But when you get torn apart at home by them when they’re bottom of the league and then get knocked out the cup at Hampden yet again by them when they’re in the league below us, they are absolutely shocking results.

[Peevemor]

We also pumped them at Tynecastle, a place I’ve seen us win a handful of times. Regardless of their position, their squad is built on similar foundations to ours in terms of resource and results will be split against them. Expecting us to beat them every time is unrealistic in football.Their wage bill/player budget is bigger than ours and has been for as long as I can remember. Ron seems to have loosened the purse strings a bit (from his own pocket? ), but they're still probably outspending us.

[hibbysam]

We did. But how many times have hearts been relegated in your time? The result at tynecastle was a great result, no doubting that. But the other two were absolutely horrific results.

Nobody expects us to beat them every time. But when you get torn apart at home by them when they’re bottom of the league and then get knocked out the cup at Hampden yet again by them when they’re in the league below us, they are absolutely shocking results.

Whether they are in a league below us is irrelevant. The relevance is with what they are continuing to spend on their squad. They are still as big a club as us regardless of where they are. It was a poor result, no doubt, because it was them and a semi final, but they weren’t some run of the mill championship side, and even wider context being we outplayed them and missed a penalty to win it.

[hibsbollah]

Their wage bill/player budget is bigger than ours and has been for as long as I can remember. Ron seems to have loosened the purse strings a bit (from his own pocket? ), but they're still probably outspending us.

Estimated average wage £140k a week at Aberdeen, £135ish at Hearts, £120ish at Hibs according to statista.

[Peevemor]

Estimated average wage £140k a week at Aberdeen, £130ish at Hearts, £115ish at Hibs.The average wage doesn't mean that much without knowing the size of the squad. It's the total wage bill that makes most difference IMO.

[h1bs4life]

We’re badly lacking leadership, experience and fight on the pitch. Gray and McGregor’s influence has never properly been replaced. John McGinn and Cummings also brought their own confidence to the team. JR is creating a team in his own mould. Safe, organised and badly lacking bottle when the going gets tough.

There was also Big Marv and others no on messed us about there was a great team spirit.
Now there is no leaders , soft as s### , weak mentality .
While we may have better players than the other 2 teams we have played in the semi finals they had better team spirit , will to win.
St Johnstone did exactly what Hertz did put a marker down did Porteous in the first couple of minutes , as usual we did nothing similar .

[green day]

Estimated average wage £140k a week at Aberdeen, £135ish at Hearts, £120ish at Hibs according to statista.

And probably about £60k at the last 3 teams to beat us.................

[Allez Hibs]

He’s only had 3 derbies and won 1 of them away from home, losing another in extra time by virtue of a missed penalty, it’s hardly unacceptable. It can improve but regardless whether we like it or not, we will win some and lose some to teams with similar budgets to ourselves.

It's unacceptable. The manner of the last two is totally unacceptable.

[ahibby]

To add to Greencastles good points I want to point to another aspect of JR which perhaps show that his frame of mind is wrong and that might be contributing towards us going backwards. He says we didnt deserve to be behind at half time. I dont accept that at all. Possession is nothing if you dont score and cant defend properly. To say you dont deserve to be behind when you havent scored nor defended well is not realistic, its not seeing things as they are, its feeling sorry for yourself. Of course we deserved to be behind bcause we did not defend nor did we take our chances. We deserved to lose 3 0. We deserved to lose 3 0 to Livi and 2 0 to Ross County. Lets accept that and its up to him and the players to sort that out. He picks the team and tactics so it starts with him. The first step to solving a problem is to define the problem and recognise the causes. Then you work on removing, eradicating the causes. I dont think he has that analytical ability, I am sure I am not the only one. Being reasonable humans we hope we are proved wrong

[EVENTUALLY]

McGennis takes his chance against the Hertz and Murphy takes his last night I've no doubt we would have been on our way to 2 finals.
Both were shocking misses. For me its about the players and its historic. For years lots of really good players turning out in a Hibs jersey at Hampden have crapped it. That's a trait and it needs addressing. David Gray demonstrated determination and a never give up attitude when he won the important backtracking tackle in the final and effectively handed the baton to Stokes to push on. It worked and we won. That attitude was developed at Old Trafford and thats what is needed at Easter Road.

[hibsbollah]

The average wage doesn't mean that much without knowing the size of the squad. It's the total wage bill that makes most difference IMO.

A very quick search shows Hearts £4.1million Hibs £3.6million according to salary sport. So fairly similar gap. They pay about 15% more than us.

[Allez Hibs]

The average wage doesn't mean that much without knowing the size of the squad. It's the total wage bill that makes most difference IMO.

Agreed. Would be very interesting to see a full breakdown of the squads wages and what represents value for money.

All these St Mirren players.
All the midfielders.
Gray, Lewy, McGregor and Hanlon.

[ahibby]

McGennis takes his chance against the Hertz and Murphy takes his last night I've no doubt we would have been on our way to 2 finals.
Both were shocking misses. For me its about the players and its historic. For years lots of really good players turning out in a Hibs jersey at Hampden have crapped it. That's a trait and it needs addressing. David Gray demonstrated determination and a never give up attitude when he won the important backtracking tackle in the final and effectively handed the baton to Stokes to push on. It worked and we won. That attitude was developed at Old Trafford and thats what is needed at Easter Road.

And if we hadnt let in three against Livi an two against Ross County we would have had two nil nil draws at home.

[easty]

There was also Big Marv and others no on messed us about there was a great team spirit.
Now there is no leaders , soft as s### , weak mentality .
While we may have better players than the other 2 teams we have played in the semi finals they had better team spirit , will to win.
St Johnstone did exactly what Hertz did put a marker down did Porteous in the first couple of minutes , as usual we did nothing similar .

Except that’s not true. I’ve seen us have Daz and SDG and McGinn and Cummings and Marv on the pitch and still lose 0-3 at home to Morton. A week later they all played when we lost 1-0 away at QoTS. They all played when Ross County beat us in the cup final too.

[hibbysam]

It's unacceptable. The manner of the last two is totally unacceptable.

The home one was very poor, but again, in context although they were bottom of the league at that point, they had just beaten Rangers in the Scottish which showed they had moments where they could turn up. The Scottish cup one we outplayed them and missed glaring chances and a penalty. I hate losing to them as much as the next person but our record will always be up and down against them.

[hibbysam]

And probably about £60k at the last 3 teams to beat us.................

And more often than not we beat those teams (off the top of my head, don’t have the stats). We will lose odd games against them, but will beat them regularly.

[Dmas]

Personally attacking another Hibs fan for posting his opinion? There’s only one thing that’s embarrassing here...

GreenCastle’s post earlier nails it. Full of facts:

Originally Posted by GreenCastle:
St Johnstone semi final - 3-0
Ross County league loss
St Johnstone recently at ER
Alloa late goal - mince performance
Dundee Utd dropping points - late goals
Semi Final v Hearts
Sheep x 2. This season
Sheep x1 last season
Motherwell at home.
Clinging on at home after being 3 up against Hamilton.
Derby last season at ER - awful performance
Livi at home
BetFred cup group stages - some of the performances were awful ( I know we won the group but still issues)

Add in the Drey Wright - the 55 / 50 min subs he regularly does, lack of goals at home (crap home record).

His team selection today..Cadden and Irvine aren’t fit. Boyle doesn’t play through middle. Allan was never ready to come on. Why drop Gray from squad even for his experience and influence. Gullan no minutes - Hallberg who has been fine no minutes.

This is not good reading and I’ve lost faith in him and the players. Mentally weak and the manager has players that won’t stand up to him and definitely won’t stand up to others = constantly get bullied and lose important games.
When you list it like that he’s pretty hopeles

I've been on the managers and a couple of players backs for a while now over performances etc. but some of the chat after yesterday is unreal, it wasn't long ago the club where being bashed for keeping gray and McGregor on long contracts and some daring to suggest Stevenson should be given the same, now at least one has to have a place on the bench even though the starting 11 had 2 players in it who could play his position?
Betfred group stages...we where half a squad down for around 3 of them due to international games and injuries and still won the group
we where all up in arms Jackson only signed a 6 month contract but now he's not to play? how's he supposed to get up to speed? probably our best player yesterday.
Newell injured wright hopeless who should have played instead of cadden? Hallberg out wide? not going to work was it.

there's plenty to bash JR with there's really no need to make stuff up or attempt to sour it even further, we bossed the first 45 which suggest the initial team selection was fine, there are players in our squad who have won trophy's at our club or at other clubs this mentally weak thing is a media driven hyperbole to bring back the 'Hibssed it' tag.

an awful result and there's a lot he's needing to look at and sort but sacking him now is extreme he deserves the opportunity to at least see out the season, I don't hold out much hope long term with him but I'm hoping I'm wrong

[Percy Vere]

Bottle job.

Amazing insight you’ve got.
Must be great having the loyal support.
Could say your a bottle job for bottling support for your manager.

[hibeerealist]

Amazing insight you’ve got.
Must be great having the loyal support.
Could say your a bottle job for bottling support for your manager.

Jeez, a superfan speaks!!

Everybody bow to his/her superiority.

[Peevemor]

Amazing insight you’ve got.
Must be great having the loyal support.
Could say your a bottle job for bottling support for your manager.Or not coming on here to continue and defend his negative opinions when things are going relatively well.

[Bobby's Cinema]

Jack Ross
Jack Loss
Jack Dross

Whatever you want to call him he's not taking us forward as a club. We are embarrassingly bad in big games and dreadful to watch in most other matches, he's doing his best to surrender 4th place to Livvy as well, 3 weeks time and we will likely be 5th. He picks the team, he gives the instructions, he's incapable of changing a game to make us better. He changed the shape at 1-0 and made us worse. By the time 60 minutes came round and we were 3-0 down it was hard to tell what formation we were playing. He has to go. Season pretty ****ed now anyway.
I struggle with this view seriously. Hounding out a manager that has us in 4th and reaching every single semi final.
Raging about last night, but the manager had a team and system on the park that had us in the position to get to both finals, the players never seized it.
At some point the players on the park need to take over.

Qualifying for Europe is not something we do anywhere near as regularly as we should. Does that not count for anything?
The manager has us in position to qualify for europe and to get to both major finals. There's clearly a wide range of expectations.

For me this lies much more widely with the players no taking the opportunity when everything is in place in the position to do so.

[DavieRoy]

Not sure what to make of his reaction yesterday.

https://twitter.com/ScotlandSky/status/1353119068195196929?s=20

[GreenCastle]

I've been on the managers and a couple of players backs for a while now over performances etc. but some of the chat after yesterday is unreal, it wasn't long ago the club where being bashed for keeping gray and McGregor on long contracts and some daring to suggest Stevenson should be given the same, now at least one has to have a place on the bench even though the starting 11 had 2 players in it who could play his position?
Betfred group stages...we where half a squad down for around 3 of them due to international games and injuries and still won the group
we where all up in arms Jackson only signed a 6 month contract but now he's not to play? how's he supposed to get up to speed? probably our best player yesterday.
Newell injured wright hopeless who should have played instead of cadden? Hallberg out wide? not going to work was it.

there's plenty to bash JR with there's really no need to make stuff up or attempt to sour it even further, we bossed the first 45 which suggest the initial team selection was fine, there are players in our squad who have won trophy's at our club or at other clubs this mentally weak thing is a media driven hyperbole to bring back the 'Hibssed it' tag.

an awful result and there's a lot he's needing to look at and sort but sacking him now is extreme he deserves the opportunity to at least see out the season, I don't hold out much hope long term with him but I'm hoping I'm wrong

I never said start McGregor or Gray but I do think their influence is important. Gray is club captain ! Gray or Drey Wright for a last minute goal it’s not contest.

BetFred group stages against part time players - surely we have the depth to beat these teams.

Jackson Irvine has talent but he will admit he isn’t match fit. You only had to watch him tracking back yesterday.

Gogic was solid and winning the ball but once we start losing he’s not what we need.

We didn’t boss it for 45 mins. That’s totally made up and contradictory to what your saying !!

We dominated for 30 mins then lost a goal - the other 60 was awful. How many chances did we create after going behind?

We both had 5 shots on target in whole game. 1 yellow card and they had 2 ! Get beat 3-0 and have 1 yellow card ? We are soft and that comes from recruitment and the manager.

His team yesterday might be good in 6 months but it wasn’t ready for yesterday and it was a massive risk.

If Ross was to pick the team again today 100% he wouldn’t start with the same team. If he said he would he would be more clueless than I originally thought.

The only rest of the season is predictable- some dull performances - dropped points - getting knocked out Scottish (just hoping we don’t draw Hearts again) and the continued acceptance of mediocre performances.

If he signs some defenders / another striker with leadership he may start to address some of our issues.

[Hibiza]

We just keep on getting kicked in the stones. Time after time .

[Callum_62]

Not sure what to make of his reaction yesterday.

https://twitter.com/ScotlandSky/status/1353119068195196929?s=20Sounds fairly honest to me

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[Heisenberg]

Sounds fairly honest to me

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

Yep don’t see a lot wrong with what he’s said there.

[neil7908]

Their wage bill/player budget is bigger than ours and has been for as long as I can remember. Ron seems to have loosened the purse strings a bit (from his own pocket? ), but they're still probably outspending us.

But their rubbish. They got relegated last season and are losing to the likes of Alloa and Raith.

If we want to talk about budgets, would love to compare ours and Livi's. Or Ross County etc who have run over us recently.

[ekhibee]

Not sure what to make of his reaction yesterday.

https://twitter.com/ScotlandSky/status/1353119068195196929?s=20

Can't really see what's wrong with what he said there?

[MWHIBBIES]

10th when previous manager sacked
4th currently

"not taking us forward"

🤔

[Since452]

"Klopp out" is trending on Twitter. Just shows how mental football fans can be

[mcohibs]

"Klopp out" is trending on Twitter. Just shows how mental football fans can be

What tends to happen with twitter trends is that often the term 'Klopp out' for example will be posted by one person (possibly even tongue in cheek), loads of folk will pick up on it and post something like 'can't believe this boy wants Klopp out', then it trends and folk write 'can't believe Klopp out is trending, Liverpool fans are mental'. What you've posted on here, if it was in twitter would add to the trend. Cycle continues and context is totally removed

Anyway, Jack Ross out

[Hibs2105]

10th when previous manager sacked
4th currently

"not taking us forward"

[emoji848]

What Jack Ross has done at hibs is win the league games he should be winning and we have even struggled to do that of late. Hardly impressive to be honest and he has been backed more than any other hibs manager in recent history. So is perhaps underachieving?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JimBHibees]

Not sure what to make of his reaction yesterday.

https://twitter.com/ScotlandSky/status/1353119068195196929?s=20

Can't see anything wrong with his comments reflects the hurt we were all feeling on Saturday.

[Heisenberg]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/6580537/hibs-scott-allan-mixed-emotions-long-awaited-return-hampden/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1611559225

Scott Allan speaks well here and he’s bang on the money. Ross made mistakes but the players failing to do the basics is down to them and they let themselves and the fans down badly.

[JimBHibees]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/6580537/hibs-scott-allan-mixed-emotions-long-awaited-return-hampden/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1611559225

Scott Allan speaks well here and he’s bang on the money. Ross made mistakes but the players failing to do the basics is down to them and they let themselves and the fans down badly.

Good comments pretty much spot on.

[Since452]

What tends to happen with twitter trends is that often the term 'Klopp out' for example will be posted by one person (possibly even tongue in cheek), loads of folk will pick up on it and post something like 'can't believe this boy wants Klopp out', then it trends and folk write 'can't believe Klopp out is trending, Liverpool fans are mental'. What you've posted on here, if it was in twitter would add to the trend. Cycle continues and context is totally removed

Anyway, Jack Ross out

Seems to be more than just that

https://twitter.com/talkSPORT/status/1352384222644867074?s=09