Tories

[ronaldo7]

1bn is a small price to pay to keep Corbin out of power!

What price for a strong and stable government eh. £1Billion now, more to come.:wink:

[ronaldo7]

The next time you see a Tory on TV praising all the public sector workers, ask yourself, did they back them when they needed it, or did they turn their back on them.

Dirty *******s, and that includes the DUP.

[Mon Dieu4]

The next time you see a Tory on TV praising all the public sector workers, ask yourself, did they back them when they needed it, or did they turn their back on them.

Dirty *******s, and that includes the DUP.

That they voted it down is bad enough but the fact they whooped and cheered at the result when it's people's livelihoods they are playing with makes it even more disgusting

[Just Jimmy]

That they voted it down is bad enough but the fact they whooped and cheered at the result when it's people's livelihoods they are playing with makes it even more disgusting
Human vermin.

They gave themselves an 11% pay increase the day after the election too did they not?

It's beyond words.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[High-On-Hibs]

Seems the magic money tree has all dried up.

Still... people will continue to vote tory and claim that it can be justified, without giving any justification for it. :whistle:

[hibsbollah]

The next time you see a Tory on TV praising all the public sector workers, ask yourself, did they back them when they needed it, or did they turn their back on them.

Dirty *******s, and that includes the DUP.

:agree:

[Pete]

1bn is a small price to pay to keep Corbin out of power!

The irony is that this £1billion will probably help him win the next election.

Ach well.

[Pretty Boy]

1bn is a small price to pay to keep Corbin out of power!

It doesn't do that though.

It just delays the inevitable vote of no confidence and general election by a few months, maybe a year. Then we go again and May and the Tories will lose.

[marinello59]

It doesn't do that though.

It just delays the inevitable vote of no confidence and general election by a few months, maybe a year. Then we go again and May and the Tories will lose.

I'm hoping for an October election. Labours support will continue to increase across the UK including in Scotland while we watch it all come crashing down for the Tories.

[hibsbollah]

I'm hoping for an October election. Labours support will continue to increase across the UK including in Scotland while we watch it all come crashing down for the Tories.

I would like to see something positive from Scottish Labour before making that prediction. So far the strategy has been to distance Ian Murray, Kezia Dugdale et al as far as possible from the Corbyn leadership because it's a liability, and hammer Nicola and Indyref2 incessantly. If Labour wants to retain some power up here it will have to wake up to the fact that Corbyn is in fact an asset, not a liability, and that bashing the Tories will appeal to their core more than bashing the nats.

[Geo_1875]

I would like to see something positive from Scottish Labour before making that prediction. So far the strategy has been to distance Ian Murray, Kezia Dugdale et al as far as possible from the Corbyn leadership because it's a liability, and hammer Nicola and Indyref2 incessantly. If Labour wants to retain some power up here it will have to wake up to the fact that Corbyn is in fact an asset, not a liability, and that bashing the Tories will appeal to their core more than bashing the nats.

It won't happen. They're too young to remember that the Tories are the real enemy.

[ronaldo7]

It looks like Theresa has used the RAF as a private taxi service for her new pal, Arlene. The power of the state reaches far and wide when you need to get yer pal hame, and it only costs £20,000

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-20000-raf-plane-fly-arlene-foster-dup-leader-home-belfast-deal-a7819116.html

[johnbc70]

It looks like Theresa has used the RAF as a private taxi service for her new pal, Arlene. The power of the state reaches far and wide when you need to get yer pal hame, and it only costs £20,000

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-20000-raf-plane-fly-arlene-foster-dup-leader-home-belfast-deal-a7819116.html

Except the Tories paid for it themselves and no taxpayer money was used, kind of like the SNP paying £35,580 on flying Nicola Sturgeon around in a helicopter for the 2015 election?

[ronaldo7]

Except the Tories paid for it themselves and no taxpayer money was used, kind of like the SNP paying £35,580 on flying Nicola Sturgeon around in a helicopter for the 2015 election?

Sure they did.:aok: They buy most things these days.

[johnbc70]

Sure they did.:aok: They buy most things these days.

Bit of a disappointing story really, nothing really happened.

But if you have proof the taxpayers did pay for it, by all means, please share.

[ronaldo7]

Bit of a disappointing story really, nothing really happened.

But if you have proof the taxpayers did pay for it, by all means, please share.

I've never at any time said taxpayers paid for it. This was you. The real story is the Tories buying Arlene. Even you can see it?

Then again, maybe not.:rolleyes:

Do you think anyone can phone the RAF to get a lift home?

[johnbc70]

I've never at any time said taxpayers paid for it. This was you. The real story is the Tories buying Arlene. Even you can see it?

Then again, maybe not.:rolleyes:

Do you think anyone can phone the RAF to get a lift home?

We all knew what you meant, as others have pointed out your constant everything is wonderful in the world of SNP and everyone else is bad is to be admired in a cult/brainwashed type of way but the reality of the world is different. Did the SNP not spend something like £20K on shipping a painting of Nicola Sturgeon to the US a few years back, great way to spend taxpayers money....but yes you probably agree?

[ronaldo7]

We all knew what you meant, as others have pointed out your constant everything is wonderful in the world of SNP and everyone else is bad is to be admired in a cult/brainwashed type of way but the reality of the world is different. Did the SNP not spend something like £20K on shipping a painting of Nicola Sturgeon to the US a few years back, great way to spend taxpayers money....but yes you probably agree?

Do you have multiple accounts on here, or are you the new spokesperson for others?

Maybe your deflection works on others, however, if you'd like to answer my question, I'd be obliged.

[johnbc70]

Do you have multiple accounts on here, or are you the new spokesperson for others?

Maybe your deflection works on others, however, if you'd like to answer my question, I'd be obliged.
I would imagine the UK government is the only ones that could use the RAF, so not much shock that yes the UK government used the RAF.

I have mastered the art of deflection from a master, he posts here a lot. Name similar to a Real Madrid player I think.

So did the SNP use taxpayers or party money to send that painting to the US? Feel free to answer yes or no.

[ronaldo7]

I would imagine the UK government is the only ones that could use the RAF, so not much shock that yes the UK government used the RAF.

I have mastered the art of deflection from a master, he posts here a lot. Name similar to a Real Madrid player I think.

So did the SNP use taxpayers or party money to send that painting to the US? Feel free to answer yes or no.

Multiple accounts:dunno: Who is this "we" you speak of?

In answer to your question, not got a clue. No doubt you'll find a link for me.

Back to the thread title, the Tories have used and abused their position of using the RAF to get the bung queen back home. Great use of our military then.

[grunt]

I would imagine the UK government is the only ones that could use the RAF, so not much shock that yes the UK government used the RAF. Not so much a "shock", but I do wonder why it was felt necessary to use the RAF to get her home. There are loads of UK to Belfast flights every day.

[Future17]

Except the Tories paid for it themselves and no taxpayer money was used, kind of like the SNP paying £35,580 on flying Nicola Sturgeon around in a helicopter for the 2015 election?


Bit of a disappointing story really, nothing really happened.

But if you have proof the taxpayers did pay for it, by all means, please share.

This is the first I've heard of this story, but it reads as though the Conservative Party had to pay the bill for the flight, as the UK Government were told they couldn't charge it to the public purse. This would suggest the original intention was for taxpayers to foot the bill but, granted, it isn't explicit.

Is this not as much of a concern as who eventually did pay for it?

[Hibernia&Alba]

I see May is coming under pressure from her MPs, including some Cabinet ministers, to drop the one per cent public pay limit. Long overdue, but it would be very welcome. There are thousands of unfilled nursing positions in the UK, due to a combination of staff leaving and not enough people entering the profession. They desperately need help.

[marinello59]

I see May is coming under pressure from her MPs, including some Cabinet ministers, to drop the one per cent public pay limit. Long overdue, but it would be very welcome. There are thousands of unfilled nursing positions in the UK, due to a combination of staff leaving and not enough people entering the profession. They desperately need help.

The SNP u-turn on this in Scotland puts even more pressure on May. The Corbyn effect is kicking in.

[ronaldo7]

The SNP u-turn on this in Scotland puts even more pressure on May. The Corbyn effect is kicking in.

I don't know why the "Corbyn effect" isn't kicking in, in Wales. The Labour party rule Wales, however the First Minister in Wales says they won't be lifting the pay cap.

Strange that Corbyn's not been on the phone to him.

[marinello59]

I don't know why the "Corbyn effect" isn't kicking in, in Wales. The Labour party rule Wales, however the First Minister in Wales says they won't be lifting the pay cap.

Strange that Corbyn's not been on the phone to him.


Maybe the Welsh Labour Party will do the same as the SNP and do a u-turn. What a difference when there is a genuine political will to get things done that were previously declared impossible. :wink:

[ronaldo7]

Maybe the Welsh Labour Party will do the same as the SNP and do a u-turn. What a difference when there is a genuine political will to get things done that were previously declared impossible. :wink:

I don't think anyone's declared things impossible, but it's great to have a Government who'll listen to the people.:wink:

[marinello59]

I don't think anyone's declared things impossible, but it's great to have a Government who'll listen to the people.:wink:

Losing 21 seats and seeing a resurgent Labour Party tends to improve the hearing I guess. :greengrin

[ronaldo7]

Losing 21 seats and seeing a resurgent Labour Party tends to improve the hearing I guess. :greengrin

Have you got a slot on the Fringe this year.:tee hee:

18849

Labour austerity in wales.:wink:

[marinello59]

Have you got a slot on the Fringe this year.:tee hee:

18849

Labour austerity in wales.:wink:

I don't actually know how much room the Welsh Assembly has to manoeuvre on this. Given that the Welsh Health Secretary wrote to Hunt last week asking for the funds to remove the cap their powers may be limited.
However if they have got the power to act and haven't I won't be defending them. I'll leave that sort of thing to those of you who supported the SNP's previous position.

[ronaldo7]

I don't actually know how much room the Welsh Assembly has to manoeuvre on this. Given that the Welsh Health Secretary wrote to Hunt last week asking for the funds to remove the cap their powers may be limited.
However if they have got the power to act and haven't I won't be defending them. I'll leave that sort of thing to those of you who supported the SNP's previous position.



Imagine if we had to keep the same policy for years at a time, something like the freeze on the community charge, only for Labour councils to continue it, when it had been de frosted. :greengrin

And considering the pay cap removal was in the Welsh Labour manifesto.:rolleyes:

[Hibrandenburg]

https://www.google.de/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/10/tories-urgently-investigating-after-mp-uses-n-word-at-public-event

They just can't help themselves.

[snooky]

https://www.google.de/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/10/tories-urgently-investigating-after-mp-uses-n-word-at-public-event

They just can't help themselves.

Rather silly and inappropriate for her to use that unfortunate and obviously well-out-of-date phrase however, as usual there's a storm in the media about a small issue like this while major issues are trivialised daily.
Deck chairs/Titanic comes to mind.
The world is going nuts.

[High-On-Hibs]

Rather silly and impropriate for her to use that unfortunate and obviously well-out-of-date phrase however, as usual there's a storm in the media about a small issue like this while major issues are trivialised daily.
Deck chairs/Titanic comes to mind.
The world is going nuts.

I wouldn't call it unfortunate. Out of all the phrases she could have used in the English vocabulary, to use that one when talking about the subject of brexit, isn't just an accidental blip.

You're right though. The media will blow this up and hope people remain clueless on the real issues.

[Colr]

I wouldn't call it unfortunate. Out of all the phrases she could have used in the English vocabulary, to use that one when talking about the subject of brexit, isn't just an accidental blip.

You're right though. The media will blow this up and hope people remain clueless on the real issues.

It's not a phrase that would come to mind at all unless you were already in the habit of using it.

[steakbake]

It's not a phrase that would come to mind at all unless you were already in the habit of using it.

This is precisely the point.

That she said it and people only started to flinch at the recording - and not the live event - tells you it's common or acceptable parlance in her circles.

It is completely unacceptable. But the issue remains that it's a distraction from the actual problems of the day.

[lucky]

Suspending an MP who used the N word is not enough. She should be kicked out their party and forced resign her seat. If a football fan used the N word at a game they'd be arrested for it. Whilst her views and comments may be acceptable to some and she has the right to hold them I do not believe that they can be tolerated by a so called mainstream political party.

[Just Alf]

Suspending an MP who used the N word is not enough. She should be kicked out their party and forced resign her seat. If a football fan used the N word at a game they'd be arrested for it. Whilst her views and comments may be acceptable to some and she has the right to hold them I do not believe that they can be tolerated by a so called mainstream political party.

Totally agree, mind you... With the current numbers game being played at Westminster it wouldn't surprise me to see her kept on.

[High-On-Hibs]

Suspending an MP who used the N word is not enough. She should be kicked out their party and forced resign her seat. If a football fan used the N word at a game they'd be arrested for it. Whilst her views and comments may be acceptable to some and she has the right to hold them I do not believe that they can be tolerated by a so called mainstream political party.

They won't kick her out. They can't afford to kick her out completely. They'll wait until the next scandal in line takes precedence, then they will smuggle her back into the party whip.

I don't think simply saying the N word gets you arrested, but it will lead to a court order. I recall a certain John Terry being done for racist remarks during a game several years ago, but I don't believe he was arrested for it.

[Smartie]

When I was in first year at Uni I remember a Chemistry lecturer using that particular turn of phrase during a tutorial and we were all flabbergasted that someone in a position of influence would so carelessly use a phrase like that.

That was at Dundee Uni in about 1995/96.

I cannot believe that someone in her position, in this day and age could possibly use a phrase like that in public without expecting some very serious repercussions.

[Colr]

When I was in first year at Uni I remember a Chemistry lecturer using that particular turn of phrase during a tutorial and we were all flabbergasted that someone in a position of influence would so carelessly use a phrase like that.

That was at Dundee Uni in about 1995/96.

I cannot believe that someone in her position, in this day and age could possibly use a phrase like that in public without expecting some very serious repercussions.

It rather depressing reading the comments in online newspapers that see nothing wrong with the expression!!

[Geo_1875]

It rather depressing reading the comments in online newspapers that see nothing wrong with the expression!!

Because it is still in common use among a certain "class" who see nothing wrong with it. The same people who think Robinson's should have kept their symbol.

[Mon Dieu4]

Shows how outdated a saying it must be as I'm 37 and have never heard that expression ever

[lapsedhibee]

Shows how outdated a saying it must be as I'm 37 and have never heard that expression ever
Old enough to have seen the 1990 World Cup (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMBDL2qjQ1Y)on the tellybox then?

[Mon Dieu4]

Old enough to have seen the 1990 World Cup (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMBDL2qjQ1Y)on the tellybox then?

I was 10 when that world cup was on, I can remember Schillaci and Milla along with most of the games but wasn't really too into current affairs at that age no, thats the first time I have ever seen that which is surprising

[lapsedhibee]

I was 10 when that world cup was on, I can remember Schillaci and Milla along with most of the games but wasn't really too into current affairs at that age no, thats the first time I have ever seen that which is surprising

There was some fuss about it at the time - whether there would have been as much if Garth Crooks, who is black, hadn't been in the studio at the same time is hard to tell. I think the Malky Mackay defence, much later - paraphrasing as 'it's not really proper racism if it's just stuff in a private jokey conversation between mates' - might have been fairly widely acceptable nearly thirty years ago.

[Mon Dieu4]

There was some fuss about it at the time - whether there would have been as much if Garth Crooks, who is black, hadn't been in the studio at the same time is hard to tell. I think the Malky Mackay defence, much later - paraphrasing as 'it's not really proper racism if it's just stuff in a private jokey conversation between mates' - might have been fairly widely acceptable nearly thirty years ago.

Find it shocking, even if you account for the time it was said it shows so much ignorance, thankfully the world has moved on, not enough though if people are still coming out with comments like that

[Colr]

Because it is still in common use among a certain "class" who see nothing wrong with it. The same people who think Robinson's should have kept their symbol.

I assume you mean Robertson's golliwog (Robinson symbol is an apple stalk).

Interestingly, last time I was in the hoorah Henry heaven that is Fortnum & Mason, they were still selling the little toy "wogs"!

[lapsedhibee]

Because it is still in common use among a certain "class" who see nothing wrong with it. The same people who think Robinson's should have kept their symbol.

Heard the new leader of Kensington Cooncil on the radiobox today talking about money. She spoke of "pounds, shillings and pence". Some tories live in a world where time doesn't really pass at all - or, if it does, it shouldn't!

[hibsbollah]

Theresa May went on the 'comfy sofa' on 5live this morning, part of what is clearly an attempt to rehabilitate her reputation. She 'shed a tear' when the result became clear, apparently. She realised 'Jeremy' was in fact, a, 'good man' when she saw his response to the London terrorist attacks, etc etc. The interviewer was not exactly Jeremy Paxman, put it that way.

I'm really hoping she clings on to power for as long as possible, at least until we get another election. She's completely incapable of sounding anything else but totally insincere. Just one of those people.

[Mon Dieu4]

Theresa May went on the 'comfy sofa' on 5live this morning, part of what is clearly an attempt to rehabilitate her reputation. She 'shed a tear' when the result became clear, apparently. She realised 'Jeremy' was in fact, a, 'good man' when she saw his response to the London terrorist attacks, etc etc. The interviewer was not exactly Jeremy Paxman, put it that way.

I'm really hoping she clings on to power for as long as possible, at least until we get another election. She's completely incapable of sounding anything else but totally insincere. Just one of those people.

Saw 10 seconds of it there when I got in and that was enough, how anyone won't be able to see right through it is beyond me, then again the niavety of some people astounds me

[Hibrandenburg]

Saw 10 seconds of it there when I got in and that was enough, how anyone won't be able to see right through it is beyond me, then again the niavety of some people astounds me

It's part and parcel of the British make-up that people with posh accents are automatically deemed to be leadership material.

[Colr]

It's part and parcel of the British make-up that people with posh accents are automatically deemed to be leadership material.

****ing right. Its why there are so many cretins in positions of responsibility.

[steakbake]

****ing right. Its why there are so many cretins in positions of responsibility.

Jesus, my mum was saying she quite liked Rees Mogg. Asked her if she knew what he stood for - she didn't know.

[Hibrandenburg]

Jesus, my mum was saying she quite liked Rees Mogg. Asked her if she knew what he stood for - she didn't know.

Accents on men have a similar effect to boobs on women.

[Slavers]

Rees Mogg is a class act.

[Smartie]

Rees Mogg is a class act.

Rees Mogg is the most dangerous type of utter b*****d because it isn't immediately clear that that is exactly what he is.

He's a so-far-untainted version of Boris Johnson that has the potential to rain absolute misery on this country.

[ronaldo7]

Rees Mogg is a class prat.

Fixed that fur ye.:wink:

[Hibrandenburg]

Rees Mogg is a class act.

He's got a posh accent, apart from that what makes him so great?

[High-On-Hibs]

So Philip Hammond has been caught out suggesting that public sector workers are "overpaid" and nobody is distrurbed by this?

[Hibrandenburg]

So Philip Hammond has been caught out suggesting that public sector workers are "overpaid" and nobody is distrurbed by this?

Normal day in Toryland.

[High-On-Hibs]

Normal day in Toryland.

Normal day in the UK.

Vote tory..... ignore what they do for the next several years..... then turn up and vote tory again, as things can only get better.....

[speedy_gonzales]

So Philip Hammond has been caught out suggesting that public sector workers are "overpaid" and nobody is distrurbed by this?
There seems to be a cycle of complaining that public sector are under-paid then a wee while later they are either over-paid (for what they do) or enjoy generous benefits (pensions & sick pay).
I'm not even sure what public sector is these days. I'm in the rail industry(infrastructure), it was public sector when I started but was then privatised, then pseudo public until brought back under the remit of the government a few years back,,, I still don't really consider myself public sector and few others do.
Then we have health, is that public sector, it's virtually all trusts these days.

But, to answer the question, if I was to do a similar job outside the railway I'd probably be looking at a 40% pay cut. My mother who worked for NHS Scotland (office based) until her recent retirement has been looking for jobs in her field (she has to as she's short of NI contributions/WASPI issues) and even she's saying a similar job in the private sector is paying well below what she was getting.

[High-On-Hibs]

There seems to be a cycle of complaining that public sector are under-paid then a wee while later they are either over-paid (for what they do) or enjoy generous benefits (pensions & sick pay).
I'm not even sure what public sector is these days. I'm in the rail industry(infrastructure), it was public sector when I started but was then privatised, then pseudo public until brought back under the remit of the government a few years back,,, I still don't really consider myself public sector and few others do.
Then we have health, is that public sector, it's virtually all trusts these days.

But, to answer the question, if I was to do a similar job outside the railway I'd probably be looking at a 40% pay cut. My mother who worked for NHS Scotland (office based) until her recent retirement has been looking for jobs in her field (she has to as she's short of NI contributions/WASPI issues) and even she's saying a similar job in the private sector is paying well below what she was getting.

Comparison to the private sector is meaningless though. How much a private company decides to pay their workers beyond the minimum wage is entirely within their own remit and agreed upon with the employee. The government on the other hand have a responsiblity for ensuring that every worker who is officially working as a public sector employee recieves a paygrade that is either in line with the national living wage, or in line with their skills and experience.

Considering we have people in the public sector who are either putting their own lives on the line each day, or putting other peoples lives on their shoulders while going to foodbanks and other charities to make ends meet is utterly disgraceful. These shameful comments from the CoE only adds to this national scandal.

[speedy_gonzales]

Comparison to the private sector is meaningless though.

I wouldn't say meaningless, the comment from the Chancellor of the Exchequer was "Public sector workers receive a 10% premium over private sector counterparts"


Considering we have people in the public sector who are either putting their own lives on the line each day, or putting other peoples lives on their shoulders while going to foodbanks and other charities to make ends meet is utterly disgraceful. These shameful comments from the CoE only adds to this national scandal.
I reckon more folk in the private sector put their own lives at risk, but not for any particular "right" reason. Deep sea fishing is still up there as one of the most dangerous careers. Folk who work at height without correct fall arrests(scaffolders/roofers). People who carry out roadside recovery on busy roads,,,,,few, if any, public sector workers are in any more danger than anybody else working a job with inherent risks, in fact, their risk is probably managed better as there shouldn't be the financial squeeze and drive for profit many private sector workers face.

Regardless, this shouldn't become a race to the bottom. Everyone who works is entitled to fair pay and safe working practices,,,, even the military!

[mjhibby]

It's part and parcel of the British make-up that people with posh accents are automatically deemed to be leadership material.

People with posh accents feel they are entitled to being in power and unfortunately loads of voters go along with it. Even when they ruin people's lives voters still default to what they know. So many people are like sheep nowadays and follow what everyday else does. Frightening what nonsense people believe by politicians especially white van man in the pub.

[mjhibby]

****ing right. Its why there are so many cretins in positions of responsibility.

It's in all walks of life. I can live with nepotism and favouring people if they can do the job but so many people in all walks of life get promoted but have not got a Scrooby as to how to do the job. Immensely frustrating for mere minions with half a brain.

[mjhibby]

So Philip Hammond has been caught out suggesting that public sector workers are "overpaid" and nobody is distrurbed by this?

The irony and hypocrisy is breathtaking. Unfortunately most people only bother about their circle of people. Thatchers worse legacy was to make millions of people selfish barstewards starting with the council house sales and not building new ones and then floating companies to bribe voters. Now most people look at things only for what they can get and not for the common good.

[cabbageandribs1875]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-40999001

Two Conservative councillors who were suspended by the party over offensive posts on Twitter have been reinstated after apologising.


Mr Majury used his Mulder1981 account on Twitter to make derogatory remarks about Catholics, attack benefit claimants and say the SNP was too busy talking about gay marriage.


so ruthie, all they had to say was 'sorry' and all's fine

[ronaldo7]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-40999001

Two Conservative councillors who were suspended by the party over offensive posts on Twitter have been reinstated after apologising.


Mr Majury used his Mulder1981 account on Twitter to make derogatory remarks about Catholics, attack benefit claimants and say the SNP was too busy talking about gay marriage.


so ruthie, all they had to say was 'sorry' and all's fine










Standard stuff for the Tories.

Racist, Homophobic, and sectarian comments on their twitter feed, but it's ok. Back into the fold says Ruth.

[Mr Grieves]

That is disgraceful. Any council employee found to have done similar would be out the door, so why is it different for these two?

And this shows that Ruth Davidson isn't as fabulous as some of the media would like you to believe.

[ronaldo7]

That is disgraceful. Any council employee found to have done similar would be out the door, so why is it different for these two?

And this shows that Ruth Davidson isn't as fabulous as some of the media would like you to believe.

Mike Small covers it well https://t.co/UJ3v8O8D4K

[cabbageandribs1875]

Standard stuff for the Tories.

Racist, Homophobic, and sectarian comments on their twitter feed, but it's ok. Back into the fold says Ruth.



http://www.thenational.scot/news/15489146.Ruth_Davidson_under_fire_for_interview_no _show_after_bigot_row_councillors_readmitted/


RUTH Davidson was last night under growing pressure to explain why her party had readmitted two councillors suspended over sectarian and racist abuse.
The Scottish Conservative (http://www.thenational.scot/search/?search=Conservative&topic_id=8999) leader refused to appear on a BBC radio programme to answer questions on the reinstatement of Alastair Majury and Robert Davies, suspended by the Tories in May.


i'm really missing her bitter twisted screwed-up face during her interviews, the interviews she picks to do anyway

[Mr Grieves]

Tory MP for Moray and part time football referee, Douglas Ross.

Q: If you were PM for a day what would you do?

Douglas Ross: "I'd like to see tougher enforcement against Gypsy/Travellers."

https://t.co/MdbND10TJX

:rolleyes:

[Colr]

Tory MP for Moray and part time football referee, Douglas Ross.

Q: If you were PM for a day what would you do?

Douglas Ross: "I'd like to see tougher enforcement against Gypsy/Travellers."

https://t.co/MdbND10TJX

:rolleyes:

Maybe he was on holiday in Cromer.

[Glory Lurker]

That chap Ross can't be too bright. English votes for English laws would surely prevent him from voting on traveller matters at Westminster. He could only have done anything about it by staying at Holyrood.

Putting to one side any questions about priorities/ morality of course.....

[ronaldo7]

Tory MP for Moray and part time football referee, Douglas Ross.

Q: If you were PM for a day what would you do?

Douglas Ross: "I'd like to see tougher enforcement against Gypsy/Travellers."

https://t.co/MdbND10TJX

:rolleyes:

He's been reported to the SFA compliance officer. :faf:

Get it round ye, ya Tory *******.

https://t.co/ky8pDPSejL

[snooky]

Rees Mogg is a class act.
Naw, he's just a pompous little tory-muncher. (Please excuse the typo. :wink:)

[Pete]

People with posh accents feel they are entitled to being in power and unfortunately loads of voters go along with it. Even when they ruin people's lives voters still default to what they know. So many people are like sheep nowadays and follow what everyday else does. Frightening what nonsense people believe by politicians especially white van man in the pub.

I totally agree with everything you've said on this thread, especially this.

People like this Rees-Mogg and Boris are made out to be cuddly toffs who we can trust as our leaders, usually by the conservative leaning press and institutions who masquerade as impartial.

The sad fact is that you would probably get more people having negative views about the personality traits of Jeremy Corbyn than you would about someone like Rees-Mogg. They're more in touch with the multi-millionaire, Eton educated fund manager than the old man who "Hates Britain, loves the IRA and won't press the button".

I'm sorry if I offend anyone but if you're not rich, not selfish or nasty, not really old and yet still voted Tory then you are a ****ing idiot who needs a good slap. I really do despair at some people's behaviour in this country.

[Hibrandenburg]

I totally agree with everything you've said on this thread, especially this.

People like this Rees-Mogg and Boris are made out to be cuddly toffs who we can trust as our leaders, usually by the conservative leaning press and institutions who masquerade as impartial.

The sad fact is that you would probably get more people having negative views about the personality traits of Jeremy Corbyn than you would about someone like Rees-Mogg. They're more in touch with the multi-millionaire, Eton educated fund manager than the old man who "Hates Britain, loves the IRA and won't press the button".

I'm sorry if I offend anyone but if you're not rich, not selfish or nasty, not really old and yet still voted Tory then you are a ****ing idiot who needs a good slap. I really do despair at some people's behaviour in this country.

Looking after number 1 is a perfectly acceptable philosophy, even if it comes at the cost of number 2, 3 and 4.

[snooky]

Looking after number 1 is a perfectly acceptable philosophy, even if it comes at the cost of number 2, 3 and 4.

I agree however, I can never fathom out why numbers 2, 3 & 4 would continually vote for number 1.

[danhibees1875]

I agree however, I can never fathom out why numbers 2, 3 & 4 would continually vote for number 1.

Cause number 1 has a plan to screw over #5 and #6 :wink:

[Colr]

Damien Green on Peston saying that the Tories Facebook site getting more likes is evidence of young people being attracted to the party!!

Proving the opposite with that one!

[Pete]

Guys, we’ve got it wrong. The “right-on” Tories are listening.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41456555

They are not going to bother increasing tuition fees, so that kind of represents a £250 saving, and they are extending the rather useless right-to-buy scheme that keeps house prices nice and high for those who are fortunate enough to own an “investment”...sorry, house.

It’s enough to make you 👍🏼them on Facebook.

[One Day Soon]

Guys, we’ve got it wrong. The “right-on” Tories are listening.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41456555

They are not going to bother increasing tuition fees, so that kind of represents a £250 saving, and they are extending the rather useless right-to-buy scheme that keeps house prices nice and high for those who are fortunate enough to own an “investment”...sorry, house.

It’s enough to make you 👍🏼them on Facebook.


It's not a Right to Buy scheme it's a Help to Buy scheme. There's quite a big difference. If we had a stronger economy and much better housing supply it might be irrelevant because there would be more plentiful housing that was cheaper to buy and people's earnings and savings would be more likely to allow them to afford a deposit.

On tuition fees it seems to me that this is a positive move. I don't see anyway why people who don't benefit from a University education should be subsidising people who do. The alternative is just talking left and walking right.

"investment" - house. :rolleyes:

[Pete]

It's not a Right to Buy scheme it's a Help to Buy scheme. There's quite a big difference. If we had a stronger economy and much better housing supply it might be irrelevant because there would be more plentiful housing that was cheaper to buy and people's earnings and savings would be more likely to allow them to afford a deposit.

On tuition fees it seems to me that this is a positive move. I don't see anyway why people who don't benefit from a University education should be subsidising people who do. The alternative is just talking left and walking right.

"investment" - house. :rolleyes:

Apologies, I’m out and about so got mixed up. Thanks for letting me know there’s a difference though. 😂 Lack of supply is indeed a large part of the battle.

And what’s your opinion on the tuition fees up here? Are you happy with the way they are subsidised?

[JeMeSouviens]

It's not a Right to Buy scheme it's a Help to Buy scheme. There's quite a big difference. If we had a stronger economy and much better housing supply it might be irrelevant because there would be more plentiful housing that was cheaper to buy and people's earnings and savings would be more likely to allow them to afford a deposit.

On tuition fees it seems to me that this is a positive move. I don't see anyway why people who don't benefit from a University education should be subsidising people who do. The alternative is just talking left and walking right.

"investment" - house. :rolleyes:

Everyone benefits from a higher skilled, higher earning workforce.

[Colr]

Guys, we’ve got it wrong. The “right-on” Tories are listening.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41456555

They are not going to bother increasing tuition fees, so that kind of represents a £250 saving, and they are extending the rather useless right-to-buy scheme that keeps house prices nice and high for those who are fortunate enough to own an “investment”...sorry, house.

It’s enough to make you 👍🏼them on Facebook.

According to my son (11) only folks grannies are on facebook these days!

[Colr]

It's not a Right to Buy scheme it's a Help to Buy scheme. There's quite a big difference. If we had a stronger economy and much better housing supply it might be irrelevant because there would be more plentiful housing that was cheaper to buy and people's earnings and savings would be more likely to allow them to afford a deposit.

On tuition fees it seems to me that this is a positive move. I don't see anyway why people who don't benefit from a University education should be subsidising people who do. The alternative is just talking left and walking right.

"investment" - house. :rolleyes:

Thing is, if you chuck in public sector land and convert profit into an equity share, you can produce an estate of houses at 50% market value. As its affordable housing you can finance it at PWLB rates (about 2%) and there’s loads of demand as we know so no real sales risk.

Nobody’s interested in it though. There’s too many vested interests stopping the problem being solved.

[One Day Soon]

Everyone benefits from a higher skilled, higher earning workforce.

Not in wages terms they don't. Moving away from Tuition Fees is regressive and rewards the wealthiest at the expense of the poorest.

[One Day Soon]

Thing is, if you chuck in public sector land and convert profit into an equity share, you can produce an estate of houses at 50% market value. As its affordable housing you can finance it at PWLB rates (about 2%) and there’s loads of demand as we know so no real sales risk.

Nobody’s interested in it though. There’s too many vested interests stopping the problem being solved.


Yup and I'd put nimby opponents of planning permission close to the top of my list - along with spineless politicians grubbing for the next vote rather than taking a long term perspective for the benefit of society.

[Colr]

Yup and I'd put nimby opponents of planning permission close to the top of my list - along with spineless politicians grubbing for the next vote rather than taking a long term perspective for the benefit of society.

I work in this area and the biggest problem with the planning system is the capricious monomaniacs working as officers in the Councils and other public bodies that raise objections or demand payouts rather than the public. I can understand and address most things the public come up with (though it takes quite a bit of restraint when some of the more abusive ones are having a go at you personally).

[McD]

I work in this area and the biggest problem with the planning system is the capricious monomaniacs working as officers in the Councils and other public bodies that raise objections or demand payouts rather than the public. I can understand and address most things the public come up with (though it takes quite a bit of restraint when some of the more abusive ones are having a go at you personally).


What type of objections do they raise? I’m genuinely curious, no ulterior motives.

i would have thought councils etc would be happy and encouraging to get more housing in place

[johnbc70]

What are the Scottish Government doing to help young people buy a home. This is not a dig, genuinely interested as my sister in law is on a low income and is looking to buy her first home.

[Moulin Yarns]

What type of objections do they raise? I’m genuinely curious, no ulterior motives.

i would have thought councils etc would be happy and encouraging to get more housing in place

I'm more interested in the demanding payouts he mentions. What does he mean? Who gets payouts? If hr is suggesting officers are on the take then that is libelous.

[lapsedhibee]

I'm more interested in the demanding payouts he mentions. What does he mean? Who gets payouts? If hr is suggesting officers are on the take then that is libelous.

Took it to mean requiring contributions to local services like roads and schools, rather than backhanders.

[Moulin Yarns]

Took it to mean requiring contributions to local services like roads and schools, rather than backhanders.

So developer contributions to essential services and infrastructure. That isn't demanding payouts, that is set out in law and policy, including contributions for affordable homes.

[RyeSloan]

So developer contributions to essential services and infrastructure. That isn't demanding payouts, that is set out in law and policy, including contributions for affordable homes.

Which is part of the reason that local authorities actually have quite big disincentives when it comes to additional housing. The council tax they raise does not cover the additional costs the homes place on local services.

Throwing more government money at subsidising 95% mortgages to support ever inflating house prices is a completely messed up policy.

[Moulin Yarns]

Which is part of the reason that local authorities actually have quite big disincentives when it comes to additional housing. The council tax they raise does not cover the additional costs the homes place on local services.

Throwing more government money at subsidising 95% mortgages to support ever inflating house prices is a completely messed up policy.

Utter Bollocks!

Perth is expanding with a single development to the north due to have 3,500 new homes when complete. That is why all the roadworks are going on round St Johnstone's ground. And yes, the developer has contributed to the roads and school facilities as well as committing to a proportion of affordable and social housing. And that is just one development, others will amount to a similar number in and around Perth.

[RyeSloan]

Utter Bollocks!

Perth is expanding with a single development to the north due to have 3,500 new homes when complete. That is why all the roadworks are going on round St Johnstone's ground. And yes, the developer has contributed to the roads and school facilities as well as committing to a proportion of affordable and social housing. And that is just one development, others will amount to a similar number in and around Perth.

Urmm what's bollocks?

[Moulin Yarns]

Urmm what's bollocks?

You think a local authority would approve several planning applications to build around a total of 7000 new homes if it was not going to benefit from it.

Mental.

The new road that will open up the area for development is being built with financial input from the development. I'm not paying for it through the council tax.

[RyeSloan]

You think a local authority would approve several planning applications to build around a total of 7000 new homes if it was not going to benefit from it.

Mental.

The new road that will open up the area for development is being built with financial input from the development. I'm not paying for it through the council tax.

I merely said there was some substantial disincentives for councils when it comes to new builds. For example the developer may be paying for a new road but who will pay to maintain it? The developer may even pay for a new school but who will pay for the teachers to staff it? Etc. Etc.

Increasing population may bring economic benefits but it also puts strain on local services...there is not always a direct quid pro quo.

[snooky]

I merely said there was some substantial disincentives for councils when it comes to new builds. For example the developer may be paying for a new road but who will pay to maintain it? The developer may even pay for a new school but who will pay for the teachers to staff it? Etc. Etc.

Increasing population may bring economic benefits but it also puts strain on local services...there is not always a direct quid pro quo.

Not to mention overtaxing the old drainage systems. SuDS can of course provide some local surface water disposal for new-builds.

[Moulin Yarns]

Not to mention overtaxing the old drainage systems. SuDS can of course provide some local surface water disposal for new-builds.

6 Suds in the first section of road alone.

The masterplan for the new village has full Suds and swales designed in.

[Moulin Yarns]

I'm looking forward to Theresa May's speech today. there have been lots of clues about it's content

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKX9J2ENXTs

[hibsbollah]

I'm looking forward to Theresa May's speech today. there have been lots of clues about it's content

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKX9J2ENXTs

Im listening to it now. Apart from coughing frequently throughout, it's an effective speech from the wizened creature, stealing from normal Labour territory frequently. Social housing, skills training, opportunity for all, we're not the nasty party anymore. Massive chutzpah but what do you expect.

[One Day Soon]

Im listening to it now. Apart from coughing frequently throughout, it's an effective speech from the wizened creature, stealing from normal Labour territory frequently. Social housing, skills training, opportunity for all, we're not the nasty party anymore. Massive chutzpah but what do you expect.


Right message, completely discredited messenger.

[hibsbollah]

Wee dig at Laura Pidcock, using Jo Cox's memory, she really needs to suck a fishermen's friend though. Perhaps she's going to choke before she announces Nationalising the railways...

[Colr]

I’m sure a doctor could have prescribed an anaesthetic to suppress that cough.

Maybe she couldn’t get an NHS appointment.

[Moulin Yarns]

I’m sure a doctor could have prescribed an anaesthetic to suppress that cough.

Maybe she couldn’t get an NHS appointment.

She tried but was assessed by her party as being fit for work. Labour benefits.

[Radium]

She tried but was assessed by her party as being fit for work. Labour benefits.

Tried for a ‘soul and conscience’ but was found wanting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibernia&Alba]

Cap on energy prices. Didn't they accuse Miliband of Marxism when he said Labour would do that?


By the way, that guy trolling them with the P45 was very good. Political conferences are so stage managed and showbiz now; it was good to see something interesting for once.

[Colr]

Cap on energy prices. Didn't they accuse Miliband of Marxism when he said Labour would do that?


By the way, that guy trolling them with the P45 was very good. Political conferences are so stage managed and showbiz now; it was good to see something interesting for once.

Remember the Trump nazi golf balls? And jumping on stage with Kanye. His Blatter stunt was good.

[Colr]

She tried but was assessed by her party as being fit for work. Labour benefits.

Heehee.

[Colr]

Im listening to it now. Apart from coughing frequently throughout, it's an effective speech from the wizened creature, stealing from normal Labour territory frequently. Social housing, skills training, opportunity for all, we're not the nasty party anymore. Massive chutzpah but what do you expect.

5,000 houses a year in a country that needs an additional 100,000? Pathetic. Remember it was the Tories that undermined Council housing from the 50s right through to the 90s. This is a meanspirited gesture for the benefit of appearances only.

[hibsbollah]

5,000 houses a year in a country that needs an additional 100,000? Pathetic. Remember it was the Tories that undermined Council housing from the 50s right through to the 90s. This is a meanspirited gesture for the benefit of appearances only.

:agree: Quite right, although even 100,000 is a conservative (small c) estimate.

Sky ran on a story which is all over social media showing that long bits of May's speech were lifted word for word from President Bartlett's in The West Wing...superb goings on.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

:agree: Quite right, although even 100,000 is a conservative (small c) estimate.

Sky ran on a story which is all over social media showing that long bits of May's speech were lifted word for word from President Bartlett's in The West Wing...superb goings on.

Im not doubting what you say, but i find that very hard to believe. Surely nobody would be THAT stupid...

If it is true, i will absolutely believe that it was done deljberately to her, because i just dont believe anyone im the position of PMs speech writer coyld be that stupid by accident.

[Moulin Yarns]

Im not doubting what you say, but i find that very hard to believe. Surely nobody would be THAT stupid...

If it is true, i will absolutely believe that it was done deljberately to her, because i just dont believe anyone im the position of PMs speech writer coyld be that stupid by accident.

I guess someone WAS that stupid

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1549189/Moment-Theresa-appears-plagiarise-West-Wing.html

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-10-05/theresa-mays-speech-bore-an-uncanny-resemblance-to-president-barlets-in-the-west-wing/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-speech-latest-updates-the-west-wing-tv-show-match-speech-writers-address-conservative-a7982156.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/04/has-theresa-may-lifted-speech-west-wing/

[RyeSloan]

I guess someone WAS that stupid

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1549189/Moment-Theresa-appears-plagiarise-West-Wing.html

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-10-05/theresa-mays-speech-bore-an-uncanny-resemblance-to-president-barlets-in-the-west-wing/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-speech-latest-updates-the-west-wing-tv-show-match-speech-writers-address-conservative-a7982156.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/04/has-theresa-may-lifted-speech-west-wing/

So was it 'long sections of her speech' or was it one short paragraph?

Embarrassing either way...a bit like her performance as PM I suppose!

[hibsbollah]

So was it 'long sections of her speech' or was it one short paragraph?

Embarrassing either way...a bit like her performance as PM I suppose!


https://youtu.be/synXhPSNWg0

Im possibly guilty of hyperbole with 'long bits' but it's long enough to not be an accident :faf:

[Colr]

https://youtu.be/synXhPSNWg0

Im possibly guilty of hyperbole with 'long bits' but it's long enough to not be an accident :faf:

I only watched the first series but could someone remind me what his policies were so we know what to expect if she clings on to office? Was he a Remainer?

[One Day Soon]

I only watched the first series but could someone remind me what his policies were so we know what to expect if she clings on to office? Was he a Remainer?

If she appoints Allison Janney as her Press Secretary I'll vote Tory for the first time in my life.

[hibsbollah]

I only watched the first series but could someone remind me what his policies were so we know what to expect if she clings on to office? Was he a Remainer?

Mrs Bollah has the entire series on box set. He was Roosevelt New Deal domestically and George Dubya esque on foreign policy. So expect New May to build a massive new road and rail network while launching cruise missiles at the Norwegians :aok:

[Hibrandenburg]

Think her spluttering speech might be the prelude to her standing down due to health reasons. MAYbe I'm just being cynical though.

[heretoday]

Think her spluttering speech might be the prelude to her standing down due to health reasons. MAYbe I'm just being cynical though.

She just had an October throat. We've all got it.

She does walk oddly though. Mind you that could be her gimmicky shoes. The scamp.

[snooky]

19467

Obviously not sabotage or different letters would have fallen off. :wink:

[JimBHibees]

5,000 houses a year in a country that needs an additional 100,000? Pathetic. Remember it was the Tories that undermined Council housing from the 50s right through to the 90s. This is a meanspirited gesture for the benefit of appearances only.

Agree a drop in the ocean with what is required however was it not right that no council houses were built at all when Labour was in charge under the dream double act of Gordy and Bliar.

[Mibbes Aye]

Agree a drop in the ocean with what is required however was it not right that no council houses were built at all when Labour was in charge under the dream double act of Gordy and Bliar.

It's a bit more complex than that. Housing sits with local authorities, not central government (but they nevertheless have the capacity to pass legislation and make policy which informs the approach of local authorities).

'Right to buy' put constraints on councils and their ability to reinvest proceeds into new council housing. That meant that the vast majority of social housing built under New Labour was by housing associations rather than local authorities. I think it's also fair to say that New Labour were happy to sign up to the thinking behind 'Right to buy'. While it may have had a seriously detrimental effect on social housing, it was massively popular, possibly the most popular of any policy implemented under Thatcher. Blair shifting the party to a position where it could win substantial electoral majorities meant accepting that the public generally liked policies like these.

Should also be borne in mind that towards the end of Brown's short tenure as PM, there was an added impetus on housing. I think there was more social housing built in 2009 than any year under Thatcher or Major.

I think it's just a trend thing TBH. For most of Labour's time in government, credit was easily available and the housing bubble just grew and grew. It might not have been right but people were happy to get 105% mortgages and the like. Thatcher shifted expectations in this country and created a sense of entitlement in relation to home ownership. That was a genie that Blair and Brown were never going to get back in the bottle, so they went along with it in order to get the leverage to tackle their priorities.

[hibsbollah]

It's a bit more complex than that. Housing sits with local authorities, not central government (but they nevertheless have the capacity to pass legislation and make policy which informs the approach of local authorities).

'Right to buy' put constraints on councils and their ability to reinvest proceeds into new council housing. That meant that the vast majority of social housing built under New Labour was by housing associations rather than local authorities. I think it's also fair to say that New Labour were happy to sign up to the thinking behind 'Right to buy'. While it may have had a seriously detrimental effect on social housing, it was massively popular, possibly the most popular of any policy implemented under Thatcher. Blair shifting the party to a position where it could win substantial electoral majorities meant accepting that the public generally liked policies like these.

Should also be borne in mind that towards the end of Brown's short tenure as PM, there was an added impetus on housing. I think there was more social housing built in 2009 than any year under Thatcher or Major.

I think it's just a trend thing TBH. For most of Labour's time in government, credit was easily available and the housing bubble just grew and grew. It might not have been right but people were happy to get 105% mortgages and the like. Thatcher shifted expectations in this country and created a sense of entitlement in relation to home ownership. That was a genie that Blair and Brown were never going to get back in the bottle, so they went along with it in order to get the leverage to tackle their priorities.

Of course Right to Buy was 'popular', the local authorities were practically giving the houses away! I blame no one for buying their houses from the councils from 1981 onwards; it made financial sense to do so. And by not putting the genie back in the bottle and going along with it as you put it, the Blair and Brown governments are complicit in its implications, which we can all see from the homeless on our streets to the state of the housing market for first time buyers.

Thankfully this generations politicians from across the spectrum seem to understand that something needs to change. Im very much hoping whoever is in Government listen to Shelter, who are banging the drum for a programme of council house building as part of a mixed stock solution, and not the construction firms, who are lobbying for deregulation of planning constraints and the abolition of the green belt, as if that's the only problem here.

[Mibbes Aye]

Of course Right to Buy was 'popular', the local authorities were practically giving the houses away! I blame no one for buying their houses from the councils from 1981 onwards; it made financial sense to do so. And by not putting the genie back in the bottle and going along with it as you put it, the Blair and Brown governments are complicit in its implications, which we can all see from the homeless on our streets to the state of the housing market for first time buyers.

Thankfully this generations politicians from across the spectrum seem to understand that something needs to change. Im very much hoping whoever is in Government listen to Shelter, who are banging the drum for a programme of council house building as part of a mixed stock solution, and not the construction firms, who are lobbying for deregulation of planning constraints and the abolition of the green belt, as if that's the only problem here.

Not disagreeing with you. I think on reflection, there were a number of pragmatic but uncomfortable choices, especially for Brown.

PFI is a prime example. None of us on the left can really agree with it, in principle. The reality however was that the schools and hospital estate were literally falling down in 1997 and there wasn't the capital in the public purse to fix it. Then it becomes a dilemma about whether you stick rigidly to your values or actually compromise to get the chance to make people's lives better.

We won't agree on this but Blair and Brown, and Brown particularly, learned the hard lessons from 1987 and 1992. Voters weren't interested in what old Labour had to offer. The genuine achievements they made on things like child and pensioner poverty were only achievable through making Labour not seem like a threat - the party who would reverse 'right to buy', the party who were profligate with public money, the party who couldn't be trusted on defence.

I don't think it sits comfortably with me or you but the reality is that for Labour to win power and have the chance to make society fairer, it has to take on board that a lot of voters don't agree or sign up to its ethos and value base.

I don't think Blair and Brown could do anything about 'right to buy' other than what they did. What could they do? Legislate for local authorities to make compulsory purchase orders? Can you imagine how that would have played out?

[hibsbollah]

Not disagreeing with you. I think on reflection, there were a number of pragmatic but uncomfortable choices, especially for Brown.

PFI is a prime example. None of us on the left can really agree with it, in principle. The reality however was that the schools and hospital estate were literally falling down in 1997 and there wasn't the capital in the public purse to fix it. Then it becomes a dilemma about whether you stick rigidly to your values or actually compromise to get the chance to make people's lives better.

We won't agree on this but Blair and Brown, and Brown particularly, learned the hard lessons from 1987 and 1992. Voters weren't interested in what old Labour had to offer. The genuine achievements they made on things like child and pensioner poverty were only achievable through making Labour not seem like a threat - the party who would reverse 'right to buy', the party who were profligate with public money, the party who couldn't be trusted on defence.

I don't think it sits comfortably with me or you but the reality is that for Labour to win power and have the chance to make society fairer, it has to take on board that a lot of voters don't agree or sign up to its ethos and value base.

I don't think Blair and Brown could do anything about 'right to buy' other than what they did. What could they do? Legislate for local authorities to make compulsory purchase orders? Can you imagine how that would have played out?

There's a lot in there that would take us very off topic to go into :faf: Fixing it is what matters.

I will say this though, there is a trope that goes because Right to Buy was popular, it therefore represents a deep desire among us to own our own houses, to be seen as separate from and better than our neighbours, and because it was successful it somehow justifies itself as a policy. Blair thought there was a great lesson to be learned here. But that's not why it was successful, it was successful because the terms on offer were so generous to the buyer and crippling to the local authority. It was just part of the wider Thatcherite pathology about selling the family silver.

[Mibbes Aye]

There's a lot in there that would take us very off topic to go into :faf: Fixing it is what matters.

Maybe another time :greengrin

Completely agree with your last sentence. I have Richard Crossman's diaries in hardback, it's fascinating to read about how housing policy was viewed in the 1960s within what was seen to be a progressive and intellectual Labour administration. The landscape has changed but some of the issues still seem to be there.

From my point of view, there are three critical areas for government to look at, in relation to adults and older people, especially if they want to make steps towards better social justice. It's health, social care and housing.

Health tends to dominate but the coverage misses the point. Social care is ignored, yet it is critical. Housing tends to focus on ownership issues or made-up stories about 'bad' benefit claimants and immigrants, rather than the systemic issue of how we actually house people in a sustainable and affordable way.

[Mibbes Aye]

There's a lot in there that would take us very off topic to go into :faf: Fixing it is what matters.

I will say this though, there is a trope that goes because Right to Buy was popular, it therefore represents a deep desire among us to own our own houses, to be seen as separate from and better than our neighbours, and because it was successful it somehow justifies itself as a policy. Blair thought there was a great lesson to be learned here. But that's not why it was successful, it was successful because the terms on offer were so generous to the buyer and crippling to the local authority. It was just part of the wider Thatcherite pathology about selling the family silver.

You added the second paragraph after I replied to you.

While I agree with you to an extent, the concept of home ownership as a right and a freedom goes back to the seventeenth century at least in England. It was always there, Thatcher merely found a convenient vehicle to exploit.

I'm also wary of the "selling the family silver" analogy. I think we are closer than we are apart on the role of the state, but those on the left need to recognise that a lot of people genuinely believe in the opposite and would agree with privatisation etc on philosophical grounds.

I might think they're wrong and you might think they're wrong but there's an awful lot of them. If our chosen representatives are to exercise power then we need to accept that it means making our offer palatable to those who wouldn't regard themselves as Labour voters.

[RyeSloan]

You added the second paragraph after I replied to you.

While I agree with you to an extent, the concept of home ownership as a right and a freedom goes back to the seventeenth century at least in England. It was always there, Thatcher merely found a convenient vehicle to exploit.

I'm also wary of the "selling the family silver" analogy. I think we are closer than we are apart on the role of the state, but those on the left need to recognise that a lot of people genuinely believe in the opposite and would agree with privatisation etc on philosophical grounds.

I might think they're wrong and you might think they're wrong but there's an awful lot of them. If our chosen representatives are to exercise power then we need to accept that it means making our offer palatable to those who wouldn't regard themselves as Labour voters.

Good discussion on a difficult topic.

I'm probably in the group in your last paragraph (although I struggle to vote for any of the parties tbh).

I'm not convinced local councils need to be or should be landlords. There seems to be no logical reason that they would magically build cheaper housing or maintain the housing any better than housing associations or any other type of landlord.

To me there is a couple of clear drivers of the house price bubble. The availability of land...the green belt has been a disaster for not only creating a ridiculous premium for land with planning permission to build (aka higher house prices) but has robbed cities of green space after green space while at the same time shrinking homes and gardens. Second is the lack of people moving...fewer house for sale means higher prices can be commanded for those that are. Stamp duty changes are a big driver behind that and the cost of buying and selling has resulted in historic lows in number of properties for sale.

Remove those two and you have a market that can build more of the types of houses people want at a significant reduced cost while at the same time the existing stock can be rotated and realigned much faster and easier.

None of the above would seem to be solved by councils building houses rather than private sector...then you have to ask just where the labour and the skills and expertise will come from to ramp up building to any great degree. I get the current situation suits the housbuilders perfectly (nicely supported by 'help to buy') so it's easy to think 'they would say that wouldn't they' but they are reasonably consistent in saying that they really couldn't build much more much faster due to the supply constraints for the labour to do so. This is anecdotally supported by people I know in the industry who say getting contractors is always an issue.

Anyhoo nice to read some considered opinion without a Britnat, BBC bias quote to be seen [emoji12]

[hibsbollah]

You added the second paragraph after I replied to you.

While I agree with you to an extent, the concept of home ownership as a right and a freedom goes back to the seventeenth century at least in England. It was always there, Thatcher merely found a convenient vehicle to exploit.

I'm also wary of the "selling the family silver" analogy. I think we are closer than we are apart on the role of the state, but those on the left need to recognise that a lot of people genuinely believe in the opposite and would agree with privatisation etc on philosophical grounds.

I might think they're wrong and you might think they're wrong but there's an awful lot of them. If our chosen representatives are to exercise power then we need to accept that it means making our offer palatable to those who wouldn't regard themselves as Labour voters.

In broad terms we can argue about what is palatable to the middle england voter, but in terms of housing policy I think by turning back the clock and starting to build local authority houses again, you're pushing at an open door. A whole generation of successful graduates who have well paid jobs but can't afford a 50k deposit for a tiny flat , middle class wealthy mums and dads who are wondering when their grown up kids are going to move out, these people are being priced out of something that the generation before took for granted. And they don't give a monkeys what ideological baggage is involved, they just want their lives to improve.

Off topic, sorry.

[Mibbes Aye]

Good discussion on a difficult topic.

I'm probably in the group in your last paragraph (although I struggle to vote for any of the parties tbh).

I'm not convinced local councils need to be or should be landlords. There seems to be no logical reason that they would magically build cheaper housing or maintain the housing any better than housing associations or any other type of landlord.

To me there is a couple of clear drivers of the house price bubble. The availability of land...the green belt has been a disaster for not only creating a ridiculous premium for land with planning permission to build (aka higher house prices) but has robbed cities of green space after green space while at the same time shrinking homes and gardens. Second is the lack of people moving...fewer house for sale means higher prices can be commanded for those that are. Stamp duty changes are a big driver behind that and the cost of buying and selling has resulted in historic lows in number of properties for sale.

Remove those two and you have a market that can build more of the types of houses people want at a significant reduced cost while at the same time the existing stock can be rotated and realigned much faster and easier.

None of the above would seem to be solved by councils building houses rather than private sector...then you have to ask just where the labour and the skills and expertise will come from to ramp up building to any great degree. I get the current situation suits the housbuilders perfectly (nicely supported by 'help to buy') so it's easy to think 'they would say that wouldn't they' but they are reasonably consistent in saying that they really couldn't build much more much faster due to the supply constraints for the labour to do so. This is anecdotally supported by people I know in the industry who say getting contractors is always an issue.

Anyhoo nice to read some considered opinion without a Britnat, BBC bias quote to be seen [emoji12]

Good, thoughtful post - but I would say that as a fellow Britnat colonialist :greengrin

[Glory Lurker]

Supporters of left and right of Labour, on a thread about Tories, debating how to win middle England on policy areas that don't apply to Scotland. Crikey.

[Mibbes Aye]

In broad terms we can argue about what is palatable to the middle england voter, but in terms of housing policy I think by turning back the clock and starting to build local authority houses again, you're pushing at an open door. A whole generation of successful graduates who have well paid jobs but can't afford a 50k deposit for a tiny flat , middle class wealthy mums and dads who are wondering when their grown up kids are going to move out, these people are being priced out of something that the generation before took for granted. And they don't give a monkeys what ideological baggage is involved, they just want their lives to improve.

Off topic, sorry.

No, it's good chat and I like the serious discussion of important points.

I agree with your analysis. There's a fundamental issue there. Again, would be wary about talking about middle england voters - this isn't a stereotype, this is an engrained viewpoint that a majority seem to hold true. It's a bit like bemoaning the American attitude to guns. We might be offended by it but it's stupidity to ignore that it's what motivates people's thinking.

Personally, I don't have an issue with housing associations building houses, as opposed to local authorities. The reality is that the demographic pressure on social care and the requirements Scottish Government have put on education means that local authorities will need to slash any budget other than those. They simply won't have the means to fund it - they have access to friendly long-term borrowing but the repayments won't fit into their budget settlements.

[Mibbes Aye]

Supporters of left and right of Labour, on a thread about Tories, debating how to win middle England on policy areas that don't apply to Scotland. Crikey.

:greengrin

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

There's a lot in there that would take us very off topic to go into :faf: Fixing it is what matters.

I will say this though, there is a trope that goes because Right to Buy was popular, it therefore represents a deep desire among us to own our own houses, to be seen as separate from and better than our neighbours, and because it was successful it somehow justifies itself as a policy. Blair thought there was a great lesson to be learned here. But that's not why it was successful, it was successful because the terms on offer were so generous to the buyer and crippling to the local authority. It was just part of the wider Thatcherite pathology about selling the family silver.

To be better than our neighbours??

Bit harsh isnt it.

Maybe, just maybe, people want to better themselves and have something tangible for their lifes work to pass on to their children.

Its hugely popular because it was a great policy that lifted many working class people into home ownership they otherwise would never have had.

I suspect people on the left hate it so much because they know just how much damage it has done to the left in the UK ever since.

[Colr]

Supporters of left and right of Labour, on a thread about Tories, debating how to win middle England on policy areas that don't apply to Scotland. Crikey.

Middle England would be bypassed by a Labour-SNP-Lib coalition.

Labour policy on the House of Lords seems custom designed to accomodate such an eventuality.

[Pete]

To be better than our neighbours??

Bit harsh isnt it.

Maybe, just maybe, people want to better themselves and have something tangible for their lifes work to pass on to their children.

Its hugely popular because it was a great policy that lifted many working class people into home ownership they otherwise would never have had.

I suspect people on the left hate it so much because they know just how much damage it has done to the left in the UK ever since.

The chickens are certainly coming home to roost now though. It's got to the stage where solutions that were once considered radical (huge social housing programs etc...) are now considered a necessity and are even being flirted with by the right. It does make you wonder where this desirable "middle ground" actually is now when you consider the pressures being put on people who were once immune to them... and I'm not just talking about housing.

I understand your point about house ownership but it's telling that we automatically equate people bettering themselves with something tangible. Call me naive but shouldn't we be aiming for something better than that?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

The chickens are certainly coming home to roost now though. It's got to the stage where solutions that were once considered radical (huge social housing programs etc...) are now considered a necessity and are even being flirted with by the right. It does make you wonder where this desirable "middle ground" actually is now when you consider the pressures being put on people who were once immune to them... and I'm not just talking about housing.

I understand your point about house ownership but it's telling that we automatically equate people bettering themselves with something tangible. Call me naive but shouldn't we be aiming for something better than that?

Possibly mate, such as? A house is a fundamental thing, its not like a car. Plus, ex council houses arent exactly luxurious.

I agree there has been a problem in the 30 odd years since, but failures over 30 years of housing policy dont make right to buy wrong.

Also, i think there has been an explosion in demand that would have been hard to keep up with - single person occupancy must be way higher than it used to be.

[Colr]

Possibly mate, such as? A house is a fundamental thing, its not like a car. Plus, ex council houses arent exactly luxurious.

I agree there has been a problem in the 30 odd years since, but failures over 30 years of housing policy dont make right to buy wrong.

Also, i think there has been an explosion in demand that would have been hard to keep up with - single person occupancy must be way higher than it used to be.

Council housing from the post war period was a vast improvement on the utter crap that private landlords had forced working people to live in. It was progressively undermined for self centred ideological reasons by the Tories in the 50s and 70s.

[Glory Lurker]

Ruth Davidson giving it "put up or shut up" to anti-May faction. I wonder when she'll make her own move for the job.

[Colr]

Ruth Davidson giving it "put up or shut up" to anti-May faction. I wonder when she'll make her own move for the job.

Government falls. Election called. RD stands and gains a seat. Labour/SNP government. Leadership election in Tory party. RD is leader with the time and space to reform the unbred, self serving shower of ****ers and kick Boris’s teeth in round the back of the Palace of Westminster.

Job done.

[One Day Soon]

There is significant demand now for affordable private rented accommodation which is why new consortia of builders and funders are getting together to build specifically for that purpose. We certainly need a lot more homes - and they need to be mixed tenure and of different types and sizes across different parts of the country.

Right to Buy was probably the single biggest redistributive policy the country has ever seen. Pity it wasn't accompanied by a parallel build to replace programme.

Planning and land supply are probably one of the two main pillars of constraint in our housing system, along with funding. Any scarcity forces up price - there's a reason why people land bank.

We need to be careful to distinguish between homelessness and rough sleeping - they're not the same thing.

[ronaldo7]

The tories seem to have lost £490Billion off the books, it looks like the UK gov have cocked up again.

Strong and Stable.:rolleyes:

https://t.co/3fWzi1XlEm

[CropleyWasGod]

The tories seem to have lost £490Billion off the books, it looks like the UK gov have cocked up again.

Strong and Stable.:rolleyes:

https://t.co/3fWzi1XlEm

It's with the Hamilton Accies money...

[ronaldo7]

It's with the Hamilton Accies money...

Bang goes that plan for Britannia 2.

[Moulin Yarns]

Bang goes that plan for Britannia 2.

No, Brittania 2 is safe as is HS2 Crossrail etc. It is the NHS and benefits that will have to foot the bill.

In other news I see Douglas Ross will miss the debate and vote on Universal Credit at Wesminster by playing away in Barcelons. Priorities eh?

[RyeSloan]

The tories seem to have lost £490Billion off the books, it looks like the UK gov have cocked up again.

Strong and Stable.:rolleyes:

https://t.co/3fWzi1XlEm

As suspected the usual poor standard of reporting and understanding on these type of figures just causes confusion...

https://reaction.life/has-a-quarter-of-the-uks-gdp-just-disappeared-no/

[ronaldo7]

As suspected the usual poor standard of reporting and understanding on these type of figures just causes confusion...

https://reaction.life/has-a-quarter-of-the-uks-gdp-just-disappeared-no/

I'd rather follow a "real" economist, rather than Iain Martin.

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/10/16/oops-490-billion-has-done-awol/

[RyeSloan]

I'd rather follow a "real" economist, rather than Iain Martin.

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/10/16/oops-490-billion-has-done-awol/

And he states "And that makes this half a story, at best"

The premise of the original link was connecting technical data on corporate profits and investment flows to GDP which was fundamentally incorrect. It also stated that Britain no longer had a "reserve of foreign assets" which was also incorrect, if it even means anything at all. Finally it finished off with another random GDP figure for Brexit which again cannot be connected directly to the stats the article was based on.

[Colr]

Mhari’s calling them out on their record.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41388022

For the Tories, all this self-generated Brexit crap is a Godsend in allowing them to divert attention from their record of economic incompetance.

[ronaldo7]

Murdo gets caught out Lying on the minutes silence at McDairmid park.

https://t.co/Ny5OTTLG6b

[Mr Grieves]

Murdo gets caught out Lying on the minutes silence at McDairmid park.

https://t.co/Ny5OTTLG6b

He's an absolute walloper. That's completely unacceptable actions from an elected representative.

[weecounty hibby]

I can't open the link but if he is accusing them of disrespecting the minutes silence yesterday then he is a bigger prick than I thought. I watched the game, and much to my surprise, the silence was well observed. Fraser is an arrogant hun ******* as well as an arrogant Tory *******

[ronaldo7]

I can't open the link but if he is accusing them of disrespecting the minutes silence yesterday then he is a bigger prick than I thought. I watched the game, and much to my surprise, the silence was well observed. Fraser is an arrogant hun ******* as well as an arrogant Tory *******

He is. I watched the match too, and was delighted that the silence was respected by all fans at McDairmid. He seems to revel in sectarian **** when on twitter.

[Mr Grieves]

I'll be surprised if this Tory government is around much longer. It's crisis after crisis just now.

[Colr]

I'll be surprised if this Tory government is around much longer. It's crisis after crisis just now.

What’s going to bring them down, though?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

What’s going to bring them down, though?

I think this is the problem - while labour are far more popular than they were, im not sure they habe that 'govt in waiting' feel that Blair's guys had in the mid 90s, amd the tories are unlikely to bring down their own leader at the moment.

Through circumstances, May is probably relatively stable at the moment. Although definitely not strong...

[Mr White]

I think this is the problem - while labour are far more popular than they were, im not sure they habe that 'govt in waiting' feel that Blair's guys had in the mid 90s, amd the tories are unlikely to bring down their own leader at the moment.

Through circumstances, May is probably relatively stable at the moment. Although definitely not strong...

A nice big dirty scandal involving a few DUP MP's would be very welcome right about now.

Edit- I typed "a few" when of course I meant "all of the".

[Colr]

A nice big dirty scandal involving a few DUP MP's would be very welcome right about now.

Edit- I typed "a few" when of course I meant "all of the".

I think it will be a split on the Brexit deal. They are still divided on this issue.

Brexit extremist will vote their own government down if they don’t like the deal, the DUP might withdraw support if the Irish border solution doesn’t work for their supporters. I don’t think the Tory remain lobby are numerous enough ( yet) to have much inpact but I think enough would vote avainst no deal to bring down the government.2019/20 election IMHO.

[GlesgaeHibby]

I'll be surprised if this Tory government is around much longer. It's crisis after crisis just now.

Here's hoping. In just one week we've had Fallon resign, Greene come under investigation, Patel on the verge of resigning, Boris under fire again, and some other chap suspended by the party (I forget his name). If it keeps going like this, then it won't last much longer.

[hibsbollah]

Jewish Chronicle editor stands by his story that May knew about Patel's Israel trip all the time.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/nov/08/priti-patel-secret-israel-meetings-politics-live

[Hiber-nation]

Jewish Chronicle editor stands by his story that May knew about Patel's Israel trip all the time.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/nov/08/priti-patel-secret-israel-meetings-politics-live

That's her "resigned". http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41923007

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

I think this is the problem - while labour are far more popular than they were, im not sure they habe that 'govt in waiting' feel that Blair's guys had in the mid 90s, amd the tories are unlikely to bring down their own leader at the moment.

Through circumstances, May is probably relatively stable at the moment. Although definitely not strong...

I am not sure that it is May's performance which will determine her length in office. All these scandals are playing out like the theory of the bus that you wait ages for and then a fleet of them arrive at once. She must have twigged by now that she has been well and truly played by the political elite in her own party. They will be hoping that she goes down carrying the can for all the bad stuff.

[hibsbollah]

That's her "resigned". http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41923007

Patel's getting an easy time from the press IMO. This is someone who was trying to divert AID money intended supposedly for some of the poorest people on the planet and she's trying to give it to an army, the 5th biggest army (%ofGDP) in the world?? An army who have a, let's say, mixed reputation. ****bag, but the story is about weak divided Tories, instead of what it should be, evil ******* Tories.

[snooky]

The undeniable proof the Right will always stay to the right - even when it's wrong.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-berkshire-42143612/prime-minister-s-convoy-goes-wrong-way-at-roundabout

[hibsbollah]

Not mentioned yet in the context of Tory Leadership but Rees Mogg's performance in the Commons today 'thanking the DUP for reminding the Govt what its own policy is on Brexit' :faf: could be him breaking cover and challenging the current leadership.

[snooky]

Not mentioned yet in the context of Tory Leadership but Rees Mogg's performance in the Commons today 'thanking the DUP for reminding the Govt what its own policy is on Brexit' :faf: could be him breaking cover and challenging the current leadership.

Rees Mogg just lacks a wee black moustache to be the perfect contender.


19874

[ronaldo7]

Damien green, the long term friend of Theresa May, is the third cabinet minister in the last 2 months to be sacked/removed/resigned depending on who you speak to.

Strong and stable or fraying at the edges?

#whatabouttheother34

[Hibernia&Alba]

Green has resigned for having porn his computer then saying he didn't have any. Seems a very minor issue to be resigning as Deputy PM. Unless we're talking illegal porn.......

[Moulin Yarns]

Green has resigned for having porn his computer then saying he didn't have any. Seems a very minor issue to be resigning as Deputy PM. Unless we're talking illegal porn.......

His resignation was because he lied about not being aware of the legal porn on his Westminster Computer. It turns out he was made aware of it by the police more than once.

[bawheid]

I don’t understand why folk (mainly Tories) are up in arms about his sacking. He was watching porn on a laptop paid for by you and I while he was supposed to be working for you and I... for up to four or five hours a day!!

Legal porn or not he should be sacked, as any of us would be by our employers in the real world. The fact he then told lies about it only makes it worse.

[Hibernia&Alba]

His resignation was because he lied about not being aware of the legal porn on his Westminster Computer. It turns out he was made aware of it by the police more than once.

But it's understandable anyone in his position would lie about it, due to the embarrassment. It's a white lie, granted, but it just doesn't seem a resigning issue.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I don’t understand why folk (mainly Tories) are up in arms about his sacking. He was watching porn on a laptop paid for by you and I while he was supposed to be working for you and I... for up to four or five hours a day!!

Legal porn or not he should be sacked, as any of us would be by our employers in the real world. The fact he then told lies about it only makes it worse.

Sounds rather pious, bawheid. Okay, he was watching smut, but, provided it was legal content, it doesn't seem a big deal. Yes, he lied about watching it, but that's embarrassment.

[Beefster]

But it's understandable anyone in his position would lie about it, due to the embarrassment. It's a white lie, granted, but it just doesn't seem a resigning issue.

By lying, he broke the ministerial code. That’s about as automatic a resignation as you can get.

[hibsbollah]

Sounds rather pious, bawheid. Okay, he was watching smut, but, provided it was legal content, it doesn't seem a big deal. Yes, he lied about watching it, but that's embarrassment.

Politicians just can't get caught out lying and survive. Granted, it's happening in America, but that country has disappeared down a rabbit hole in terms of logic. You sack him quickly and move on, otherwise the smutty smell hangs around your Party. Another stupid move to allow him to cling on so long. All for a quick five knuckle shuffle under the desk :tuttut:

[Hibernia&Alba]

By lying, he broke the ministerial code. That’s about as automatic a resignation as you can get.

I know, but it seems harsh. The guy was probably mortified. Doing something corrupt/illegal is one thing, but watching legal smut is something else. He lied about watching it, but nobody wants the world knowing something like that.

[Hibrandenburg]

I know, but it seems harsh. The guy was probably mortified. Doing something corrupt/illegal is one thing, but watching legal smut is something else. He lied about watching it, but nobody wants the world knowing something like that.

I've watched legal smut! Where's the big deal?

[CropleyWasGod]

I've watched legal smut! Where's the big deal?

On the taxpayer's time, though? That is the issue for me, not some quasi-moralistic hand-wringing.

[Hibernia&Alba]

On the taxpayer's time, though? That is the issue for me, not some quasi-moralistic hand-wringing.

But perhaps he was watching it late at night, after a fourteen hour day. If it happens to be on the same laptop he works on, who cares? He was embarrassed, as anyone would be, but resigning over it?

[bawheid]

Sounds rather pious, bawheid. Okay, he was watching smut, but, provided it was legal content, it doesn't seem a big deal. Yes, he lied about watching it, but that's embarrassment.

Mate, I like smut as much as the next guy or girl. But if I watched it for five hours at a time while I was being paid to do a job I’d be out the door.

Instead I do my job during the day and go home to watch porn for the rest of the evening. :greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

On the taxpayer's time, though? That is the issue for me, not some quasi-moralistic hand-wringing.

I think you'll find half the British Army have watched legal smut on taxpayer's time :wink:

[Hibrandenburg]

Mate, I like smut as much as the next guy or girl. But if I watched it for five hours at a time while I was being paid to do a job I’d be out the door.

Instead I do my job during the day and go home to watch porn for the rest of the evening. :greengrin

:faf:

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

But perhaps he was watching it late at night, after a fourteen hour day. If it happens to be on the same laptop he works on, who cares? He was embarrassed, as anyone would be, but resigning over it?

I agree it does seem a touch harsh to lose your job over, but as soon as he lied (very publicly) about it, the issue became one of the ministerial code, which is fairly non-negotiable.

Theresa May must despair, of all tge things for her closest ally to lose his job over...

[CropleyWasGod]

But perhaps he was watching it late at night, after a fourteen hour day. If it happens to be on the same laptop he works on, who cares? He was embarrassed, as anyone would be, but resigning over it?

That's a fair shout. And would hold true for most people.

The problem is that our elected reps, for some reason, seem to be expected to live their lives to a higher (or different) standard (however that is defined) than the rest of us. Personally, I'd rather my reps had some sort of human fallibility about them; that makes it easier to identify with them.

The "system", though, doesn't see it that way.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think you'll find half the British Army have watched legal smut on taxpayer's time :wink:

Nae wonder they canny shoot straight......:greengrin

[ronaldo7]

David Davis said he'd resign if, Damien Green was sacked. I wonder if he'll stick to his word?

#waiting

[Mr White]

Changed days indeed for tory party sleeze. Not a sniff of a piece of fruit, a pair of suspenders or a custodial sentence for perjury anymore. Oh no just watching a bit of porn and telling a wee porky gets you booted these days. Standards are slipping- it's PC gone mad so it is :greengrin

[John_R_Corbett]

David Davis said he'd resign if, Damien Green was sacked. I wonder if he'll stick to his word?

#waitingExcellent way for him to get out of a job in which he's totally out of his depth, incapable of and making at total arse of.


Maybe that's why he said what he did :hmmm: great get out card if he wants it. Doesn't seem like the type with the cojones to follow it through though, I guess we'll see.

[Tyler Durden]

But perhaps he was watching it late at night, after a fourteen hour day. If it happens to be on the same laptop he works on, who cares? He was embarrassed, as anyone would be, but resigning over it?

Where to start here?

Lots of people work long hours and they don't watch porn on their work devices. Far less lie about it several times. I don't know about you but personally I don't watch porn on my employers time or device

He may well be embarrassed. But he's lied. Several times. Some of us think that our MPs should be the best of our society. Leaders.

Then we have the problem of the media reporting here. The story is that poor Theresa had to sack her confidante. The Tories are also suggesting there should be an investigation of the police who shared this story. All of this is reported as if we should sympathetise with Theresa and poor Damian who was only looking at "legal" porn.

WTF has happened to the UK that we have people who want to defend these morons? Typical Tories I can understand. But general acceptance of this ****? Makes me sick.

[Pretty Boy]

I always find discussions about porn on the internet quite amusing. Pornhub is the 38th or 24th most viewed website in the world, depending on what ranking system you use, and of the sites above it most are search engines, online shopping or social media. Pornography is pretty much the most popular ‘recreational activity’ on the Internet. Yet view an online discussion about it and it’s littered with people desperate to tell everyone how they ‘never watch porn’ or ‘it’s not really my thing’. The University of Montreal recently tried to conduct a study into men in their 20s who had never been ‘exposed’ to porn but they found that difficult because they couldn’t find a single participant who qualified. YouPorn transfers 950TB of data a day and that is only the 5th most popular porn site on the internet. An analysis of 400 millions web searches showed 1 in every 8 was for pornography and 68% of males under 25 admitted to using porn at least once a week. With all that in mind I’d suggest a lot of people are liars.

Of course none of that excuses Damien Green using a work device to view pornography then lying about it several times. It’s behaviour that would probably lead to trouble in a lot of jobs. I wonder if there would have been the same reaction had he used eBay on his work computer or placed a bet with William Hill or even streamed a film illegally though. It seems it’s the porn aspect that has got some people all worked up here as opposed to him using a work device for personal matters. I suppose it’s part of the strange relationship that remains with porn; a huge majority of men use it, very few admit it and it must go unacknowledged.

[Hibrandenburg]

Where to start here?

Lots of people work long hours and they don't watch porn on their work devices. Far less lie about it several times. I don't know about you but personally I don't watch porn on my employers time or device

He may well be embarrassed. But he's lied. Several times. Some of us think that our MPs should be the best of our society. Leaders.

Then we have the problem of the media reporting here. The story is that poor Theresa had to sack her confidante. The Tories are also suggesting there should be an investigation of the police who shared this story. All of this is reported as if we should sympathetise with Theresa and poor Damian who was only looking at "legal" porn.

WTF has happened to the UK that we have people who want to defend these morons? Typical Tories I can understand. But general acceptance of this ****? Makes me sick.

What has happened in the UK?

It's started to emerge out of the dark ages where the impossible expectation that our politicians need to be whiter than white and have no human failings. The problem with expecting politicians to be perfect is they're not and never can be because they're human like everyone else. The impossible expectations we hold for our politicians make them vulnerable to blackmail and extortion. Everyone has skeletons in their closet.

It was well known that Helmut Kohl was havong extramarital relationships during his time as German chancellor but he was never hounded by the press or forced to resign by puritan nonsense. He was seen to be doing a good job as chancellor and that was all that was important to the electorate. I wish the UK could show similar maturity and accept our politicians are also human thus removing the need for them to lie to preserve the unrealistic illusion of a holier than thou facade that they have to uphold.

[Colr]

I always find discussions about porn on the internet quite amusing. Pornhub is the 38th or 24th most viewed website in the world, depending on what ranking system you use, and of the sites above it most are search engines, online shopping or social media. Pornography is pretty much the most popular ‘recreational activity’ on the Internet. Yet view an online discussion about it and it’s littered with people desperate to tell everyone how they ‘never watch porn’ or ‘it’s not really my thing’. The University of Montreal recently tried to conduct a study into men in their 20s who had never been ‘exposed’ to porn but they found that difficult because they couldn’t find a single participant who qualified. YouPorn transfers 950TB of data a day and that is only the 5th most popular porn site on the internet. An analysis of 400 millions web searches showed 1 in every 8 was for pornography and 68% of males under 25 admitted to using porn at least once a week. With all that in mind I’d suggest a lot of people are liars.

Of course none of that excuses Damien Green using a work device to view pornography then lying about it several times. It’s behaviour that would probably lead to trouble in a lot of jobs. I wonder if there would have been the same reaction had he used eBay on his work computer or placed a bet with William Hill or even streamed a film illegally though. It seems it’s the porn aspect that has got some people all worked up here as opposed to him using a work device for personal matters. I suppose it’s part of the strange relationship that remains with porn; a huge majority of men use it, very few admit it and it must go unacknowledged.

Changed days. I used to work for a guy (an architect in Glasgow) who kept a stack of porn in his desk drawers. Aaaah, the good old days.

[Tyler Durden]

What has happened in the UK?

It's started to emerge out of the dark ages where the impossible expectation that our politicians need to be whiter than white and have no human failings. The problem with expecting politicians to be perfect is they're not and never can be because they're human like everyone else. The impossible expectations we hold for our politicians make them vulnerable to blackmail and extortion. Everyone has skeletons in their closet.

It was well known that Helmut Kohl was havong extramarital relationships during his time as German chancellor but he was never hounded by the press or forced to resign by puritan nonsense. He was seen to be doing a good job as chancellor and that was all that was important to the electorate. I wish the UK could show similar maturity and accept our politicians are also human thus removing the need for them to lie to preserve the unrealistic illusion of a holier than thou facade that they have to uphold.

To clarify my views. It's not the porn aspect that annoys me. It's this Tory government.

Green has lied several times. Whatever our views on porn, he's broken various rules and lied about it. We had Nadine Dorries defending him and explaining how often staff would be logged in under her credentials in her office and this is all normal. Which again breaches various rules

We've got David Davis lying every week about Brexit studies and whether they actually exist.

We have this deal with the DUP. We have to listen to Bernard Jenkins and John Redwood on Europe

All of this chaos is now the norm and the media don't give a toss.

I have no affiliation with any party but this is starting to do my head in!

[Smartie]

What has happened in the UK?

It's started to emerge out of the dark ages where the impossible expectation that our politicians need to be whiter than white and have no human failings. The problem with expecting politicians to be perfect is they're not and never can be because they're human like everyone else. The impossible expectations we hold for our politicians make them vulnerable to blackmail and extortion. Everyone has skeletons in their closet.

It was well known that Helmut Kohl was havong extramarital relationships during his time as German chancellor but he was never hounded by the press or forced to resign by puritan nonsense. He was seen to be doing a good job as chancellor and that was all that was important to the electorate. I wish the UK could show similar maturity and accept our politicians are also human thus removing the need for them to lie to preserve the unrealistic illusion of a holier than thou facade that they have to uphold.

Our tabloid press has a lot to answer for.

That and the fact that the public love a bit of tittle tattle.

The likes of the Sun and the Daily Mail have far too big an impact in setting the moral tone in this country, where it seems to be fine to whip the population into a frenzy with totally inaccurate stories about immigrants day after day but it is a sacking offence to maybe (unproven) have had some porn on your computer 15 years ago.

The British press should stick to what they are best at, which is hounding the England football manager.

[Pete]

What has happened in the UK?

It's started to emerge out of the dark ages where the impossible expectation that our politicians need to be whiter than white and have no human failings. The problem with expecting politicians to be perfect is they're not and never can be because they're human like everyone else. The impossible expectations we hold for our politicians make them vulnerable to blackmail and extortion. Everyone has skeletons in their closet.

It was well known that Helmut Kohl was havong extramarital relationships during his time as German chancellor but he was never hounded by the press or forced to resign by puritan nonsense. He was seen to be doing a good job as chancellor and that was all that was important to the electorate. I wish the UK could show similar maturity and accept our politicians are also human thus removing the need for them to lie to preserve the unrealistic illusion of a holier than thou facade that they have to uphold.

As far as acceptable behaviour goes, I’d like to think our ideal middle ground would be somewhere between watching internet porn and having full blown affairs.

As far as the latter goes, I'm sorry, I can accept human frailties but not somebody in public office who lies and deceives to that extent. There’s nothing wrong with expecting a degree of honesty and restraint.

Edit: I agree with your original point though regarding unrealistic expectations.

[Hibernia&Alba]

To clarify my views. It's not the porn aspect that annoys me. It's this Tory government.

Green has lied several times. Whatever our views on porn, he's broken various rules and lied about it. We had Nadine Dorries defending him and explaining how often staff would be logged in under her credentials in her office and this is all normal. Which again breaches various rules

We've got David Davis lying every week about Brexit studies and whether they actually exist.

We have this deal with the DUP. We have to listen to Bernard Jenkins and John Redwood on Europe

All of this chaos is now the norm and the media don't give a toss.

I have no affiliation with any party but this is starting to do my head in!

You're being very Oliver Cromwell here, Tyler. Yes he did lie about what he was watching, and that's worse than the 'crime' itself; but I can understand someone denying they've been watching online porn on a work computer. Would you admit to it, particularly when it's going to become public knowledge? I can understand why anyone would deny it: embarrassment. It's a personal thing, but it isn't illegal. He should have just admitted it, and perhaps with hindsight he wishes he had.

Tony Blair lied about Iraq and we ended up with over a million Iraqis dead. That's a resigning issue if ever there was one, but he didn't.

The fact they guy is a Tory is neither here nor there; I would say the same for any politician. Lying about policy, being corrupt or doing something illegal are resigning issues; the guy's private life shouldn't be, though I get he lied about what he'd been doing. It just seems rather trivial to me. It isn't often I have sympathy for Tory politicians, but I do in this case.

[Peevemor]

At work I'm unofficially responsible for our IT stuff and I hammer anyone who visits dodgy sites on office equipment. It's bad enough having Microsoft and Google tracking every keystroke without filling your computer with countless cookies (or worse) from god knows where.

It's always the same thing. 3 or laptops or PCs bought and set-up at the same time, all running the same software and with the vast majority of data stocked remotely. Then someone turns up with a problem that needs, at best, a system restoration to sort it out or sometimes a full reconfiguration - but "they never touched anything".

Would you take your company car to go stock car racing? For me it's the same thing. If you want to crack one off use your smartphone!

[Hibernia&Alba]

At work I'm unofficially responsible for our IT stuff and I hammer anyone who visits dodgy sites on office equipment. It's bad enough having Microsoft and Google tracking every keystroke without filling your computer with countless cookies (or worse) from god knows where.

It's always the same thing. 3 or laptops or PCs bought and set-up at the same time, all running the same software and with the vast majority of data stocked remotely. Then someone turns up with a problem that needs, at best, a system restoration to sort it out or sometimes a full reconfiguration - but "they never touched anything".

Would you take your company car to go stock car racing? For me it's the same thing. If you want to crack one off use your smartphone!

But I didnae touch anything and have no idea how all that filth got on there :dunno::offski:

[Geo_1875]

You're being very Oliver Cromwell here, Tyler. Yes he did lie about what he was watching, and that's worse than the 'crime' itself; but I can understand someone denying they've been watching online porn on a work computer. Would you admit to it, particularly when it's going to become public knowledge? I can understand why anyone would deny it: embarrassment. It's a personal thing, but it isn't illegal. He should have just admitted it, and perhaps with hindsight he wishes he had.

Tony Blair lied about Iraq and we ended up with over a million Iraqis dead. That's a resigning issue if ever there was one, but he didn't.

The fact they guy is a Tory is neither here nor there; I would say the same for any politician. Lying about policy, being corrupt or doing something illegal are resigning issues; the guy's private life shouldn't be, though I get he lied about what he'd been doing. It just seems rather trivial to me. It isn't often I have sympathy for Tory politicians, but I do in this case.

Not only did he lie by denying watching porn he also lied by denying that he'd been informed several times by senior police officers that there was evidence on a government computer accessed by him of visits to porn sites.

Expecting the police to lie down to that sort of behaviour is a bit naive for a givernment minister.

If he'd held his hands up and worked with the police it would probably have been swept under the carpet like most potential political scandals.

[Just Alf]

When I worked for an IT company working closely with UK Gov I was supplied with a PC and broadband, it was REALLY clearly stated that while it was 100% for work only although it was also stated I could use the kit (outside work hours) for things like general surfing, BBC news, Hibs.Net :-), etc etc... We were also told that if we wanted to use "streaming", online gaming or looking at smutty PICS etc then get yer own PC... AND BROADBAND AS WELL.. As I play eve.online I did exactly that.... Ended up with 2 broadbands in the house!

Those are pretty much the same rules the parliamentary staff also have... And that's not even bringing the supposed lying into the picture.




Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[Hibernia&Alba]

When I worked for an IT company working closely with UK Gov I was supplied with a PC and broadband, it was REALLY clearly stated that while it was 100% for work only although it was also stated I could use the kit (outside work hours) for things like general surfing, BBC news, Hibs.Net :-), etc etc... We were also told that if we wanted to use "streaming", online gaming or looking at smutty PICS etc then get yer own PC... AND BROADBAND AS WELL.. As I play eve.online I did exactly that.... Ended up with 2 broadbands in the house!

Those are pretty much the same rules the parliamentary staff also have... And that's not even bringing the supposed lying into the picture.




Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

All very fair points, Alf, and I can't argue with it. It just seems rather drastic. I know he lied about it, but I'm guessing many people would in his shoes, because of the terrible embarrassment. He should have just owned up.

[TheReg!]

Why on earth did he use a work computer to look at porn, just go on yer phone type in Redtube (thank me later 😊) and fill yer boots. Absolutely should fall on his sword for that.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Why on earth did he use a work computer to look at porn, just go on yer phone type in Redtube (thank me later 😊) and fill yer boots. Absolutely should fall on his sword for that.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.z8omI3z3EwytEm6x_lZjDwEsDg&w=288&h=210&c=7&o=5&dpr=1.15&pid=1.7

[Colr]

You're being very Oliver Cromwell here, Tyler. Yes he did lie about what he was watching, and that's worse than the 'crime' itself; but I can understand someone denying they've been watching online porn on a work computer. Would you admit to it, particularly when it's going to become public knowledge? I can understand why anyone would deny it: embarrassment. It's a personal thing, but it isn't illegal. He should have just admitted it, and perhaps with hindsight he wishes he had.

Tony Blair lied about Iraq and we ended up with over a million Iraqis dead. That's a resigning issue if ever there was one, but he didn't.

The fact they guy is a Tory is neither here nor there; I would say the same for any politician. Lying about policy, being corrupt or doing something illegal are resigning issues; the guy's private life shouldn't be, though I get he lied about what he'd been doing. It just seems rather trivial to me. It isn't often I have sympathy for Tory politicians, but I do in this case.

Tony Blair never *****ed his load over the office keyboard - in fact he took Rupert Murdoch’s wife up the tailpipe! Corbyn can only pull Diane Abbott!

[Smartie]

I'm a bit disappointed not to have heard the phrase "hamshankgate" on the news at any point this week.

[-Jonesy-]

Damien Green never heard of incognito mode or what?

[ronaldo7]

Another Tory found wanting. Some unsavoury stuff on his twitter timeline to elected representatives, with racist and homophobic references.

We've seen a spate of these prats on twitter recently, who are they taking a lead from?

https://t.co/zeWvcK2Yp1

[johnbc70]

Another Tory found wanting. Some unsavoury stuff on his twitter timeline to elected representatives, with racist and homophobic references.

We've seen a spate of these prats on twitter recently, who are they taking a lead from?

https://t.co/zeWvcK2Yp1

Scraping the barrell now, he was a volunteer for goodness sake and not an elected official. Has no SNP supporter done no wrong ever?

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/settler-watch-extremist-links-tartan-9834853

What about the story above, happy with that?

You need to get out more.

[speedy_gonzales]

Has no SNP supporter done no wrong ever?


Nope. Fake news.

Seriously though, you're right, every party will have followers, activists, hangers on that will communicate or post material that is plain wrong. The individual needs to be held to account, not their chosen party.
(I speak from experience, an uncle of mines in his 60's keeps posting on FB that he wishes Theresa May was killed at birth. I remind him that at birth she was an innocent uncorrupted child and there is no need for that discourse, politically motivated or not. He carries on regardless. I don't think for one minute that his chosen political party that he has allegiances with thinks the same!)

[ronaldo7]

Scraping the barrell now, he was a volunteer for goodness sake and not an elected official. Has no SNP supporter done no wrong ever?

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/settler-watch-extremist-links-tartan-9834853

What about the story above, happy with that?

You need to get out more.

I wondered how long it would take for you to come on and deflect away.:greengrin

This guy was immersed in tory activity for a long time, sending out racist and homophobic abuse to all who he didn't agree with. You'll be happy with that though. :dunno:

I'm sure you can post lots of stories about people in all different parties who've crossed the line, it's a pity you can only deflect when it's one of your own.

The link doesn't work for me, and I get out a lot. Happy to be of service.:aok:

You'll be glad this racist, homophobe is standing down from public office, even if it was a wee job he had?

[johnbc70]

I wondered how long it would take for you to come on and deflect away.:greengrin

This guy was immersed in tory activity for a long time, sending out racist and homophobic abuse to all who he didn't agree with. You'll be happy with that though. :dunno:

I'm sure you can post lots of stories about people in all different parties who've crossed the line, it's a pity you can only deflect when it's one of your own.

The link doesn't work for me, and I get out a lot. Happy to be of service.:aok:

You'll be glad this racist, homophobe is standing down from public office, even if it was a wee job he had?

Do you spend all day searching the Internet for Tory bad stories?

[ronaldo7]

Do you spend all day searching the Internet for Tory bad stories?

Just check news feeds for the day, you'll find them most weeks these days. You never answered my question.

[johnbc70]

Just check news feeds for the day, you'll find them most weeks these days. You never answered my question.

I am happy anyone who is racist or homophobic is exposed.

I find your searching of the Internet for stories of people who have any link to the Tories a bit weird though.

Unfortunately I don't have the time to "check the news feeds" every day like you.

Still seems to keep you happy, crack on.

[ronaldo7]

I am happy anyone who is racist or homophobic is exposed.

Thank **** for that, I thought I'd bumped into a member of the Green ink gang.:wink:

I find your searching of the Internet for stories of people who have any link to the Tories a bit weird though.

Don't you worry about me bud, I get out lots too.:aok:

Unfortunately I don't have the time to "check the news feeds" every day like you.

That's a pity, you might be more informed.:greengrin

Still seems to keep you happy, crack on.

Yip. Happy new year to you too. :greengrin

[Beefster]

I'm sure you can post lots of stories about people in all different parties who've crossed the line, it's a pity you can only deflect when it's one of your own.

That seems a bit like Fred West moaning about Jeffrey Dahmer being a serial killer btw.

[ronaldo7]

That seems a bit like Fred West moaning about Jeffrey Dahmer being a serial killer btw.

You might be right, although I'm not sure Fred would be interested in Jeffreys boys.

[ronaldo7]

Toby Young, appointed to the board of the new Universities regulator.

Jobs for the boys, or is does he have the necessary "caustic wit" to get him through?

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-wades-row-toby-youngs-universities-role/

[Colr]

Toby Young, appointed to the board of the new Universities regulator.

Jobs for the boys, or is does he have the necessary "caustic wit" to get him through?

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-wades-row-toby-youngs-universities-role/

Some of his tweets about women are coming back to haunt him.

He’s got a reputation as a bullying little ****.

[ronaldo7]

Some of his tweets about women are coming back to haunt him.

He’s got a reputation as a bullying little ****.

:agree:

That won't stop the Tories circling the wagons though. Friend of the, Johnsons, I believe.

[Colr]

:agree:

That won't stop the Tories circling the wagons though. Friend of the, Johnsons, I believe.

The Tories raison d’etre is to look after their own.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

The Tories raison d’etre is to look after their own.

Thats true of all political parties, not just the tories.

The unions dont bankroll the labour party for the fun of it.

[Colr]

Thats true of all political parties, not just the tories.

The unions dont bankroll the labour party for the fun of it.

With the Tories its personal!

[heretoday]

With the Tories its personal!

The Tory Party exists to keep a small number of very rich people happy.

[stoneyburn hibs]

The Tory Party exists to keep a small number of very rich people happy.


And thankfully they'll be shuffling off before most of us.

[Colr]

The Tory Party exists to keep a small number of very rich people happy.

That’s the way that I see it.

[ronaldo7]

I see the Electoral commission have finally caught up with Scotland in Union, a mostly Tory front but with some ex Labour types, regarding their expenses and active electioneering.

Mostly landed gentry, and lots of donations from wealthy benefactors.

The Green ink Gang will be beilin.

http://www.thenational.scot/news/15811372.Scotland_in_Union_face_questions_as_we_re veal_foreign_billionaire_s_donation/

[Colr]

This was an interesting read on Toby Young.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/toby-young-s-attitude-to-women-under-fire-as-he-gets-university-watchdog-role-a3730881.html

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jan/05/why-impulsive-vain-toby-young-wants-us-to-take-him-seriously

I can’t copy a link to the tweet but @JMPSimor makes some good points about the personal backing for Toby Young from his self-serving Tory cabal.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

That’s the way that I see it.

Fair enough.

But i dont think guys like bernie ecclestone and brian soutar count as poor, and i dont think donate (donated) for fun.

And those union bosses certainly aint poor.

[snooky]

The Tory Party exists to keep a small number of very rich people happy.

Not their fault. The electorate voted them in. Nowt queer as folk.

[Colr]

Teresa May hasn’t got any better over the winter break, I see.

Weasel words on every issue and no action on the critical issues of the day like inequality and lack of social mobility.

This is easily the ****test Tory government I can recall.

Can’t stand her either! Entitled, patronising old biddie.

[ronaldo7]

This was an interesting read on Toby Young.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/toby-young-s-attitude-to-women-under-fire-as-he-gets-university-watchdog-role-a3730881.html

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jan/05/why-impulsive-vain-toby-young-wants-us-to-take-him-seriously

I can’t copy a link to the tweet but @JMPSimor makes some good points about the personal backing for Toby Young from his self-serving Tory cabal.

Toby Young seems quite mild now that Esther McVey has just been made Work and Pensions secretary.

[marinello59]

Toby Young seems quite mild now that Esther McVey has just been made Work and Pensions secretary.

This bunch are more despicable than Thatcher’s gang.

[Colr]

Toby Young seems quite mild now that Esther McVey has just been made Work and Pensions secretary.

What’s she done?

[-Jonesy-]

Toby Young seems quite mild now that Esther McVey has just been made Work and Pensions secretary.

He's chucked it already!!!

[ronaldo7]

He's chucked it already!!!

Yes. Public pressure brings down a disgusting Tory *******.

Theresa was backing him at the week end.

She's not had a good start to the year.

[xyz23jc]

Yes. Public pressure brings down a disgusting Tory *******.

Theresa was backing him at the week end.

She's not had a good start to the year.


Long may it continue, no pun intended! :thumbsup::greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

Minister talks of ageing population contributing to #NHS (https://twitter.com/hashtag/NHS?src=hash) England winter crisis but this should't be a surprise! Perhaps only having 2.4 hospital beds /1000 population in England, compared with 4/1000 in Scotland, isn't such a bright idea.

Well, who knew the NHS in Scotland was better than in England. :wink:

[hibsbollah]

He's chucked it already!!!

I wasn't even aware of the guy. Thought it was something to do with Phil Mitchell when i saw his coupon on the news.

[Colr]

Yes. Public pressure brings down a disgusting Tory *******.

Theresa was backing him at the week end.

She's not had a good start to the year.

Glad to see the little **** go but I’m sorry that Justine Greening was given the push.

The fact that the Old Biddie wanted to get rid of her and appoint Young tells you a lot about her attitude to state education.

[ronaldo7]

What’s she done?

Take a trip down to your local disability centre, and mention that you're bringing Esther in for a visit. :greengrin

:take that:take that:take that

[Pete]

Boris Johnson has his say on Trump.

“The US is the biggest single investor in the UK - yet Khan & Corbyn seem determined to put this crucial relationship at risk. We will not allow US-UK relations to be endangered by some puffed up pompous popinjay in City Hall.”

So he can be as racist as he likes but we should be welcoming him for financial reasons. It makes me sick to think these people are running our country and even sicker that normal people vote for them.

[snooky]

The Great Whiteout
Not asking or expecting anybody to switch allegiances over this however, we should all at least be aware of it.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-great-whiteout/#more-101119

[RyeSloan]

The Great Whiteout
Not asking or expecting anybody to switch allegiances over this however, we should all at least be aware of it.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-great-whiteout/#more-101119

Odd as I read this on the BBC just yesterday..

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-42719324

[marinello59]

The Great Whiteout
Not asking or expecting anybody to switch allegiances over this however, we should all at least be aware of it.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-great-whiteout/#more-101119

Geez, Wings gets ever more desperate. I honestly think we have less chance of Independence with the ranting coming from there.
Bad weather has been Front page news in this country for as long as I can remember and I’m ancient so I don’t see what he is rambling on about there. The political news is there for those of us who WANT to see it. Sadly politicians backing their own party in a House of Commons vote despite what they have said earlier is not headline news. If they had voted against the Government then that would have made a big splash.
I wish all the energy being wasted by SNP supporters shooting the messenger ( a trait they mirror Trump on) was instead used making a positive case for Independence.

[Moulin Yarns]

Conservative Government take a leaf out of the Donald's book.

Mexico will pay for the wall?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42723401

UK will pay for the security.